I will never get over Return being cut. :( A move that embodies one of the cores ideals of Pokémon, being a trainers bond with their Pokémon, and it was sent to the fossil record in galar :( So many normal types got CRIPPLED from this. Snorlax, Lopunny, Diggersby, Kangaskhan, Linoone, etc. Just, why? :(
Rip my mama bear. maxed return to put whatever it was against in Korea range if it didn't just kill it. Man a tail wind suicide setter into a max return cannon is fun to use. Not the best strat but really fun.
Don't they have alternative moves? Linoone has extreme speed, and most of the above are just as content running double edge. Big L for Snorlax, mainly, since Snorlax is meant to be tanky...
Tbf if I recall the lore correctly, eternatus simply cannot gather the dynamax energy needed to use the move in Paldea because the energy specifically came from the Galar continent
@@FenixMisogino originally yes, but it lost that energy after its defeat in ye olde ancient times, and then loses the power again when you defeat it in the game. Eternatus shifts into eternmax by gathering all of this energy back up.
One move that I am sad that got removed was silver wind Yes bug buzz exists but it’s not as flashy Volcarona using silver wind: can create an elegant cloud of glitter Volcarona using bug buzz: it’s just a loud obnoxious noise
@@OdysseyExe yeah, the target is infested but by what? Can’t be insects because insect Pokémon aren’t that small, what’s the infestation is is smaller than the smallest bug type Then again I might just be thinking too much into the implications of Pokemon moves
It's funny they removed the ancient power clones probably because of stupid omniboost fishing or something, but couldn't remove the original because they had tied evolutions to that.
@@youtube-kit9450 well they could just remove the secondary effect, maybe increase the moves power as a result of removing the secondary effect, because Rock type only has 3 special attacking moves that aren’t tied to gimmicks such as Z moves or Max moves (Ancient Power, Power Gem, Meteor Beam)
Powder is a move I really hope we get back, it was niche as hell but it has a super unique mechanic and it was really fun to mess with all the mega charizards when it was around.
Exactly this!! I used it as a lead vs Mega Zard Y usually with Friend Guard alongside an Assault Vest Machamp running Dynamic Punch, Rock Slide, Fire Blast & Focus Blast
Oh My God! Jesus-Christ! Really? I used to run a Ribombee with Powder, along with a Vivillion with Powder, as these two Pokemon were the only pokemon capable of learning theses moves in gen 7...I used Ribombee and Vivillion with Alolan Ninetails with Aurora Veil, and Alolan Sandslash with Substitute, Swords Dance, Icicle Crash and Earthqauke, with Leftovers.... I would set up Arauro Veil with Alolan Ninetails, then Substitute with Alolan Sandslash, then Swords Dance and sweep thanks to Icicle Crash, Earthquake for coverage and the ability Slush Rush for speed... I would use Follow Me on Alolan Ninetails i think, to redirect all attacks to it... It wad kind of bad coming from me, but if Alolan Ninetails fainted i would send in Ribombee, and either use Powder on the pokemon i expect to use Fire moves, or attack or heal my Alolan Sandlash with Pollen Puff (another really great not very popular move!), i could also send in Vivillion if Ribombee fainted, and as it had the move Hurricane i could attack most Fighting-type pokemon super-effectively, along with having a Focus Sash i think... I also had Mega Scizor in the back if the battle was not going in my favor, it had Bullet Punch and Bug Bite i think... I also had Tapu Koko in the last slot on my team i think... My Alolan Ninetails also had Blizzard and Moonblast for attacking early game! Ok, my team was kind of a bit weird, but i had a LOT of fun with it when my strategy worked! Using Powder on all these Inceneroars in Gen 7 was hilarious! They would attack themselves instead of us! My team might be gimmicky, but it was so much fun to battle with it! This Pokemon Team prtty much made me like Doubles Gen 7 OU as a format ! All of this was played on Pokemon Showdown, kind of illegally if you ask me, as i couldn't buy a Pokemon game! But Holy Trinityl! I have pretty memories playing with these Pokemon! ❤
I've been making a mod for showdown and my first moveset change has been handing Powder out like hotcakes to various mons that it fit thematically for (mostly bugs and Cyndaquil [totally because of its fiery fur and not because it's my favourite starter and needed a little extra touch-up to its moveset or anything...])
Imo pursuit is more impactful than hidden power in singles. It singlehandedly kept a lot of super broken fast paced threats, especially ghost types, in check. Without pursuit ghost types became free to spam ghost stab, with far less answers than in previous gens. As for psychic types... Most psychic types get rocked by the ghost threats that became viable after pursuit's removal. There's only two in OU at the moment, namely dragapult and gholdengo, but that's because they outclass pretty much all other ghosts currently.
Maybe because of Tera Blast which is basically "new" hidden power. But before that it really crushed some pokemon into lower tiers because they couldn't break past things like ferothorn with hp fire or electrics being able break landorus-t
1 move shouldn't be so powerful and widely distributed that it keeps 2 whole types in check. I'm happy it's gone. Now they just need to make better mons of other types
@@KiLLKiNDLY you know how the type chart works right? Ghost is good not just because "the pokemon is good" its a busted type generally its only resisted by dark and normal type is awful. ghost fighting has no resists outside of ghost types. its dragon type all over again.
@@windwaker0rules So what they made a couple busted Ghost mons this gen? It's about time they were some solid ghost types, if they didn't make busted ghost types you'd be complaining about something else broken they made like dracovish. It's how GF work they make absurdly broken sh*t and say deal with it. Now we can finally just add phsycic and ghost types to be viable sweepers without being pursuit trapped
I miss Signal Beam. It makes for some nice special bug coverage. I was disappointed when I learned Jolteon couldn’t learn it starting with Let’s Go. It really could of used it instead of having both Thunder and Thunderbolt when I played Let’s Go Eevee and used all eeveelutions in a playthrough.
I need minior back, it’s my favorite rock type closely followed by archeops rampardos and cradily and I need to use it in competetive lol (most of the time singles tho )
Gen 7 Lax would be a cool video, especially since it was a perfect storm with the clutch berries and everything really coming together to create an entirely broken sweeper for at least one generation. Great vid as always
They should have just made Eternabeam without the E-Max Eternatus model. Just make Eternatus fly up, the lasers shine down on the target and then Eternatus returns.
Eternabeam in the footage you provided has an all black background, it's pretty easy to just render it and it's beam above the terrain even if it's only for the cinematic part :b
Honestly, I'm glad hidden power is gone. I wouldn't wish hidden power breeding on my worst enemy. If it does ever come back in a mainline game, I hope they take the Legends Arceus route and make it super effective versus everything, but it's still Unown exclusive.
They literally had to put in the time to remove these moves, Nothing about how these moves work makes them malfunction in the gen 8 and 9 games, They just removed them to deny hackers the ability to experiment with them.
To be fair, 90% of removed moves were super niche gimmick moves no one used or random low-power holdovers from generations ago that I already asked myself why that move existed, like razor wind or constrict. There still are about a dozen-two where I thought "why the hell would they remove that move" but most of them? Barely everyone will miss them.
@@youtube-kit9450i miss foresight, i miss it a-lot. The only way i wont is if they give us fighting and normal moves that are actually super effective against ghost types.
I so think that the removal of Return/Frustration is likely because tying a move's effect to friendship makes the move needlessly untransparent and is just a silly idea in general.
Nah, the actual reason is because in Gen 8, the Friendship and Affection mechanics were merged, so now you can only get to 170/255 without cooking curry. I'm serious, that's almost certainly the real reason. They changed how the numbers work and couldn't be assed verifying the move would still be functional.
Pursuit was a interesting move and gimmick that is very healthy for the metagame. Also if this was really in importance order Pursuit should be earlier
Surprised you didn't mention that Void Cats was really only doable in Gen VI, since Dark Void got nerfed to only be usable by Darkrai in Gen VII, thanks to Smeargle.
Tbh as necessary as hidden power was in some mons.....personally I am glad is removed over how much of a pain it was to breed for (and to balance with Dynamax) And rn we have Tera beam and that one is prettier anyways
Not to mention the move had been outdated for over a decade by the time it finally left. In gen 2 & 3 wether the move was physical or special depended on the type, so it technically had the physical/special split before gen 4, and then was locked purely to special once the split did happen with no physical equivalent ever being made. And then when fairy was introduced, it couldn’t be that type, and if they had tried fixing that it’d likely screw over tons of Pokémon that people had bred for specific HP types.
@@MoxieBoosted you've never run into one of those liepard + purrloin teams? It should be noticed that back then showdown didn't have the vgc timers yet so you couldn't stall them out
@Mijzelffan my bad replied to the wrong comment. Someone asked why pursuit wasn't focused on as much. But yeah I could've also mentioned dive cats for sure
Idk if its just me but as a singles player, i have not heard or read kartana’s name in years. It felt alien to me hearing that name again in this video.
and even when it was it was still a big pain as one more thing to RNG on top of the perfect IVs. I did a bit in gen 6 with the friend safari, the held item that let you pass down 3+ perfect IVs on one pokemon, and fixed Hidden Power Base Damage, I don't know how people actually managed to keep their sanity breeding optimal pokemon before gen 6, especially the ones going for either mixed attackers who needed 6 perfect IVs or special attackers who go for 5 perfect IVs and one 0 IV in attack.
I would assume Return/Frustration and especially Hidden Power were removed for reasons of not making the battle system too unclear to new players (which sucks) if they didn’t also keep making new evolution methods that are more obtuse than Mew under the truck.
I think the best way they could implement eternabeam is just having Eternatus fly up and smite the enemy with a laser and just suggesting in the info it turns into eternamax form without the model.
I am in principle fine with removing hidden power and return. They always felt too splashable to me, which was exacerbated by the fact that _everyone_ could learn them. They muddied a pokemon's distinct identity. But the crux with return is that it's not so easy to replace, because there aren't that many good normal moves. Sure, hyper beam is cool, but it's not good. Given that normal is the only type without any super effective targets, you'd think it would deserve some more consistent, strong moves, but i guess not...
I think its pretty odd every mon can learn return but I wouldn't really say they were splashable, normal moves on non normal types are pretty niche as you usually want a coverage move that can hit what walls your stab, or provides something that pressures a specific mon, something return just doesn't really do. The only mon that comes to mind that wasn't a normal type that liked having it was klingkalng and that is because it has one of the worst offensive move pools in the game. It really just sadly hurt normal types locking them into body slam as their main tab which while not bad the drop in power is pretty notable.
Also Can you make a video about moves that requires more distribution? (We need more mons with it) Like Vacuun Wave or Spirit break, Volt Tackle... you tell me
I know the move can come back if Heliolisk or Boltund come back but i missed playing Electrify Lighting Rod Deoxys Speed in Pure Hackmons and make people ragequit
Seriously I'm still puzzled as to why they removed Signal Beam, it was a decent special bug type coverage move. Many electric types like Ampharos and Jolteon got it. They need more special bug type moves there aren't many outside Bug Buzz, You only have Silver Wind and Struggle bug, both are weaker than Signal beam.
@@CaptainObliviousV I know right, its such a weird move to get rid of, when there are clones of moves that mostly went unused. They want people to use special attacking bug types or moves but they now lack STAB moves on the special until they Bug buzz in the late game. Signal beam should have had MORE pokemon learn it rather that cutting the move from game.
Volbeat getting both its signature moves deleted, Its really a shadow of its former self. (Who am I kidding? people can still use it for Sunny Day and STAB U-Turn, so it doesn't really change anything.)
For Singles players, none were anywhere near as destructive as the removal of Pursuit. Gen 8 and now Gen 9 have been absolutely dominated by powerful ghost types, and Pursuit would do a lot to keep them in check.
HP was arguably as relevant in my stupid brain dumb opinion. Also, dark types have been incredible for the last two gens, and buffing them in any remotely universal way would proooobably be very bad for singles metas.
@@bluetrip_honestly I’ve been sad that Pursuit was removed, but I never considered how much stronger it would make Dark types, rather than just weakening Ghosts.
Did you know that Vespiquen’s Heal Order and Defend Order got cut? This is weird bc Vespiquen was not only in SW/SH, but also bc it got to keep Attack Order
I always hated the fact that Signal Beam is and still gone, the fact that it’s hard enough for quite bit electric types can’t get a diverse attacking set like Jolteon and Magnezone but also that it’s another unique bug type move with it’s secondary effect, decent power, gave me ways to pester more dark and psychic types with my special attackers
A fun fact: The move "Light Of Ruin" may not ring a bell, since it's exclusive to an event only Eternal Flower form of Floette, which was never distributed. However, this move is fully coded into Scarlet/Violet, implying we may in the future be able to obtain this pokemon!
@@Kyumifun moves such as pursuit do not have code in the game outside of the description saying it cannot be used. this move does have code for what it does
It's weird because many of the moves deleted were useless or gimmicky so it's fair to say why they were deleted. But signal beam was just an usual attacking move. It's like if they deleted iron tail or something like that
A deleted move I miss even if it wasn't that big was Sky Uppercut. It's a Fighting-type attack that can hit opponents in the middle of a semi-invulnerable Flying-type move. Useless since they probably are Flying-type and thus resist it? Probably. But flavor-wise, it's a massive fighting game reference - jumping uppercuts like the Shoryuken are typically useful as "anti-airs" to knock a jumping opponent out of the air.
Instead of removing it, they should have buffed it, if it was used on a flying or bouncing Pokemon it should bypass accuracy check and deal double damage.
Another move that randomly got cut between generations was Woobat's signature move, Heart Stamp. The strange thing about this is that not only did Heart Stamp get cut in Sword and Shield but Woobat was a Pokemon you *_can_* catch in Sword and Shield essentially striping away it's identity for no real reason.
Heal Order also got cut despite Vespiquen being in the game too. It still has Attack and Defend Order even in S/V, but it's still a bit of a shame that its signature identity isn't as complete as it once was.
I feel that people understate the importance of pursuit being removed. While it may be really bad in doubles, it was one of the most important ways to keep mons in check. Mons like calyrex shadow, or dragapult would not be nearly as broken if pursuit was in the game.
Pursuit was my favorite move for honchkrow. it was literally my UU trump card for OU. you didnt know if I would sucker punch or pursuit (mind games) and with that moxie ability, it quickly snowballed to a sweeping pokemon. heck ive even brought it to Ubers and beaten legendaries.
GF: "We're changing the way Friendship works in the new games, so we're deleting Return and Frustration." "Just update the moves so they function with the new mechanics?" GF: "No."
The worst part is that Double Team and Minimize continue to exist even thought they should have been the first ones in the cutting room. From Gens 2-7 the only justification for their continued existence was the fact that no moves had ever been removed. By all means they should have been gone in SS and never come back.
I don’t think Eternamax’s model is why the move was removed. They could’ve just changed the animation to Eternatus flying up, beams raining down, and Eternatus lands back down. But then again, I also don’t have a reason for why they removed it, so who knows? Speaking of Eternabeam, wouldn’t it have been A LOT more useable if it hit both opponents in a double battle? It’s a rain of exploding beams, why does it only hit one Pokemon?!
The most annoying removals to me are the various lower-power moves that have been cut over the years. Yeah, they aren't competetively useful, but it makes training pokemon far less interesting when the pool of lower power moves they can learn as they grow is much more shallow. Competetive and endgame ain't everything. Some of the support removals that saw limited use and were thus cut are kind of a bummer now that raids are a thing and support has a wider reach. Like, during the Samurott event I went looking for a Lucky Chant user only to find that had been cut. Mud and Water Sport could be interesting in raids, also gone. Ditto for Foresight / Odor Sleuth / Magic Eye. Telekinesis could be fun raid support, gone. Even something like Rototiller could be very handy for specific raid situations. Also as other people have mentioned, Signal Beam. Really not sure why they needed to remove that one, it was a serviceable coverage option on a lot of pokemon and a mid-level special bug attack between Struggle Bug and Bug Buzz. I guess it could be because it started out as a signiture move on Volbeat so they just cut it when that got Dexit'd, but I feel like it definitely could have stuck around.
I will never get over Return being cut. :(
A move that embodies one of the cores ideals of Pokémon, being a trainers bond with their Pokémon, and it was sent to the fossil record in galar :(
So many normal types got CRIPPLED from this.
Snorlax, Lopunny, Diggersby, Kangaskhan, Linoone, etc.
Just, why? :(
rip stoutland
Rip my mama bear. maxed return to put whatever it was against in Korea range if it didn't just kill it. Man a tail wind suicide setter into a max return cannon is fun to use. Not the best strat but really fun.
Sawsbuck was never particularly amazing to begin with, but now it basically got its one decent Normal STAB sent to the graveyard.
My boi braviary as well
Don't they have alternative moves? Linoone has extreme speed, and most of the above are just as content running double edge. Big L for Snorlax, mainly, since Snorlax is meant to be tanky...
I never even considered the fact that Eternabeam was cut because of Eternamax Eternatus' model, that's so sad
Wish they just made the lasers come out of a black cloud or something
It was replaced with Outrage, too, which has lower base damage and is physical. Dreadful trade off.
@@manelneedsaname1773or have the camera not follow Eternatus and it would only show the beams rain down on the target.
Or, transition to a black scene where nothing would cause issue with the model.
We need Pursuit back. However, if Assist is brought back, it SHOULD NOT be able to call Revival Blessing.
It should be given the Dark Void treatment. If the move were to be used on a Pokémon that isn’t Pawmot or Rabsca, it would fail.
@@TwilightChomperEnthusiastdon’t even need to do that. Assist has moves that can’t be called
@@TwilightChomperEnthusiast Yeah, if they could get it to work like that.
@@immortaliron2475Oh. That’s quite nice then!
@@TwilightChomperEnthusiastyeah but dont make revival blessing 50% accuracy please 🙏
Tbf if I recall the lore correctly, eternatus simply cannot gather the dynamax energy needed to use the move in Paldea because the energy specifically came from the Galar continent
Wasn't Eternatus the origin of this energy in the first place?
@@FenixMisogino originally yes, but it lost that energy after its defeat in ye olde ancient times, and then loses the power again when you defeat it in the game. Eternatus shifts into eternmax by gathering all of this energy back up.
One move that I am sad that got removed was silver wind
Yes bug buzz exists but it’s not as flashy
Volcarona using silver wind: can create an elegant cloud of glitter
Volcarona using bug buzz: it’s just a loud obnoxious noise
Yet we keep the most irritating of all.. Infestation. I hate that one
@@OdysseyExe yeah, the target is infested but by what? Can’t be insects because insect Pokémon aren’t that small, what’s the infestation is is smaller than the smallest bug type
Then again I might just be thinking too much into the implications of Pokemon moves
@@typemasters2871joltiks
It's funny they removed the ancient power clones probably because of stupid omniboost fishing or something, but couldn't remove the original because they had tied evolutions to that.
@@youtube-kit9450 well they could just remove the secondary effect, maybe increase the moves power as a result of removing the secondary effect, because Rock type only has 3 special attacking moves that aren’t tied to gimmicks such as Z moves or Max moves (Ancient Power, Power Gem, Meteor Beam)
Powder is a move I really hope we get back, it was niche as hell but it has a super unique mechanic and it was really fun to mess with all the mega charizards when it was around.
Exactly this!! I used it as a lead vs Mega Zard Y usually with Friend Guard alongside an Assault Vest Machamp running Dynamic Punch, Rock Slide, Fire Blast & Focus Blast
@@planetsheena9288mixed machamp is crazy
Oh My God! Jesus-Christ! Really? I used to run a Ribombee with Powder, along with a Vivillion with Powder, as these two Pokemon were the only pokemon capable of learning theses moves in gen 7...I used Ribombee and Vivillion with Alolan Ninetails with Aurora Veil, and Alolan Sandslash with Substitute, Swords Dance, Icicle Crash and Earthqauke, with Leftovers.... I would set up Arauro Veil with Alolan Ninetails, then Substitute with Alolan Sandslash, then Swords Dance and sweep thanks to Icicle Crash, Earthquake for coverage and the ability Slush Rush for speed... I would use Follow Me on Alolan Ninetails i think, to redirect all attacks to it... It wad kind of bad coming from me, but if Alolan Ninetails fainted i would send in Ribombee, and either use Powder on the pokemon i expect to use Fire moves, or attack or heal my Alolan Sandlash with Pollen Puff (another really great not very popular move!), i could also send in Vivillion if Ribombee fainted, and as it had the move Hurricane i could attack most Fighting-type pokemon super-effectively, along with having a Focus Sash i think... I also had Mega Scizor in the back if the battle was not going in my favor, it had Bullet Punch and Bug Bite i think... I also had Tapu Koko in the last slot on my team i think... My Alolan Ninetails also had Blizzard and Moonblast for attacking early game!
Ok, my team was kind of a bit weird, but i had a LOT of fun with it when my strategy worked! Using Powder on all these Inceneroars in Gen 7 was hilarious! They would attack themselves instead of us! My team might be gimmicky, but it was so much fun to battle with it! This Pokemon Team prtty much made me like Doubles Gen 7 OU as a format !
All of this was played on Pokemon Showdown, kind of illegally if you ask me, as i couldn't buy a Pokemon game! But Holy Trinityl! I have pretty memories playing with these Pokemon! ❤
I've been making a mod for showdown and my first moveset change has been handing Powder out like hotcakes to various mons that it fit thematically for (mostly bugs and Cyndaquil [totally because of its fiery fur and not because it's my favourite starter and needed a little extra touch-up to its moveset or anything...])
Imo pursuit is more impactful than hidden power in singles. It singlehandedly kept a lot of super broken fast paced threats, especially ghost types, in check. Without pursuit ghost types became free to spam ghost stab, with far less answers than in previous gens. As for psychic types... Most psychic types get rocked by the ghost threats that became viable after pursuit's removal. There's only two in OU at the moment, namely dragapult and gholdengo, but that's because they outclass pretty much all other ghosts currently.
Maybe because of Tera Blast which is basically "new" hidden power. But before that it really crushed some pokemon into lower tiers because they couldn't break past things like ferothorn with hp fire or electrics being able break landorus-t
Flutter Mane tho??
1 move shouldn't be so powerful and widely distributed that it keeps 2 whole types in check. I'm happy it's gone. Now they just need to make better mons of other types
@@KiLLKiNDLY you know how the type chart works right? Ghost is good not just because "the pokemon is good" its a busted type generally its only resisted by dark and normal type is awful. ghost fighting has no resists outside of ghost types. its dragon type all over again.
@@windwaker0rules So what they made a couple busted Ghost mons this gen? It's about time they were some solid ghost types, if they didn't make busted ghost types you'd be complaining about something else broken they made like dracovish.
It's how GF work they make absurdly broken sh*t and say deal with it. Now we can finally just add phsycic and ghost types to be viable sweepers without being pursuit trapped
I miss Signal Beam. It makes for some nice special bug coverage. I was disappointed when I learned Jolteon couldn’t learn it starting with Let’s Go. It really could of used it instead of having both Thunder and Thunderbolt when I played Let’s Go Eevee and used all eeveelutions in a playthrough.
pin missile didn't exist in gen 1
Its so insane that a move as essential to Competitive as Pursuit was removed! Such a sad blow
Snatch was so fucking necessary now, I really dont understand how they think its balance to keep Prankster Tailwind running unpunished like that
RIP Flame Burst. Not good in competitive but was an early usable Fire Type move for Growlithe and I loved it so eh
Now I'm imagining Unown being brought back, but not Hidden Power.
Just send a letter out to struggle itself to death.
Suddenly Unown learns Nature Power instead.
Some psychopath would find a way to make it work
I miss Bubble, it was such a joke move, how could they keep splash, but get rid of the Majestic single Bubble that somehow annihilated every rock gym.
I need minior back, it’s my favorite rock type closely followed by archeops rampardos and cradily and I need to use it in competetive lol (most of the time singles tho )
Minior fans are hard to find, but we are strong ❤
I had no clue minior existed until I got swept by it in natdex last week
Minor is so unique. I love all those Minors!!!
Minior is one of my favourites as well
@@BeanyBoi06 lol, I use it in nat dex UU, really fun to use there
I think it's Ironic that Return never returned to later Pokemon games!😂
So many Normal 'mons were left with no good physical STAB with the removal of Return/Frustration and it makes me sad.
As a singles player, i miss Heart Swap Magearna...i used to love using it to take Xerneas' Geomancy boosts and sweep teams.
10:07 “without it looking bugged or clipping into geometry”
Since when has that stopped them 💀
Gen 7 Lax would be a cool video, especially since it was a perfect storm with the clutch berries and everything really coming together to create an entirely broken sweeper for at least one generation. Great vid as always
still not as busted as gen 2
They should have just made Eternabeam without the E-Max Eternatus model. Just make Eternatus fly up, the lasers shine down on the target and then Eternatus returns.
Eternabeam in the footage you provided has an all black background, it's pretty easy to just render it and it's beam above the terrain even if it's only for the cinematic part :b
The fact a lot of these moves were removed right were also being frequently seen in 2017 VGC can't be a coincidence.
Honestly, I'm glad hidden power is gone. I wouldn't wish hidden power breeding on my worst enemy. If it does ever come back in a mainline game, I hope they take the Legends Arceus route and make it super effective versus everything, but it's still Unown exclusive.
IF HIDDEN POWER RETURNS: it should do damage based on the higher stat of the two: Special/Physical
Pre Gen 8: Game Freak finally getting rid of Magikarp's weak ass signature mov-
Magikarp: Splash splash muthafucka
Scald got changed to only be learned by volcanion, which is kinda pointless since steam eruption is already a better scald
Doesn't the new sinestea get it?
@@scp-phenomenon014 this comment was made before the dlc released
Let's be real, 90% of these moves were removed because they didn't have time to add some of the more complex moves due to time restraints
They literally had to put in the time to remove these moves,
Nothing about how these moves work makes them malfunction in the gen 8 and 9 games,
They just removed them to deny hackers the ability to experiment with them.
To be fair, 90% of removed moves were super niche gimmick moves no one used or random low-power holdovers from generations ago that I already asked myself why that move existed, like razor wind or constrict.
There still are about a dozen-two where I thought "why the hell would they remove that move" but most of them? Barely everyone will miss them.
@@youtube-kit9450i miss foresight, i miss it a-lot. The only way i wont is if they give us fighting and normal moves that are actually super effective against ghost types.
I so think that the removal of Return/Frustration is likely because tying a move's effect to friendship makes the move needlessly untransparent and is just a silly idea in general.
And that Frustration is competitively better than Return, it likes send the wrong message in a kids game imo
Nah, the actual reason is because in Gen 8, the Friendship and Affection mechanics were merged, so now you can only get to 170/255 without cooking curry.
I'm serious, that's almost certainly the real reason. They changed how the numbers work and couldn't be assed verifying the move would still be functional.
Pursuit was a interesting move and gimmick that is very healthy for the metagame. Also if this was really in importance order Pursuit should be earlier
Surprised you didn't mention that Void Cats was really only doable in Gen VI, since Dark Void got nerfed to only be usable by Darkrai in Gen VII, thanks to Smeargle.
It doesn't really matter,
Dive Cats and Revive Cats work the same way.
Tbh as necessary as hidden power was in some mons.....personally I am glad is removed over how much of a pain it was to breed for (and to balance with Dynamax)
And rn we have Tera beam and that one is prettier anyways
Not to mention the move had been outdated for over a decade by the time it finally left. In gen 2 & 3 wether the move was physical or special depended on the type, so it technically had the physical/special split before gen 4, and then was locked purely to special once the split did happen with no physical equivalent ever being made. And then when fairy was introduced, it couldn’t be that type, and if they had tried fixing that it’d likely screw over tons of Pokémon that people had bred for specific HP types.
I sensed no pain when bred my hidden power mons.
Personally I think divecats was a more important usage of assist than voidcats, especially very annoying to face on showdown
VGC video
@@MoxieBoosted you've never run into one of those liepard + purrloin teams? It should be noticed that back then showdown didn't have the vgc timers yet so you couldn't stall them out
@Mijzelffan my bad replied to the wrong comment. Someone asked why pursuit wasn't focused on as much.
But yeah I could've also mentioned dive cats for sure
The tapu’s were def originally leaked to have the terrain signature moves
Maybe another reason that Eterna beam was cut since you were lore-wise eternamaxing eternatus, so it doesn’t make sense in a region without dynamax
ok but lets be honest, removing hidden power was one of the best decisions Pokemon has ever made.
I think that Tera blast will receive the same treatment.
Idk if its just me but as a singles player, i have not heard or read kartana’s name in years. It felt alien to me hearing that name again in this video.
Personally don't like hidden power but then again i like really niche moves like me first which i miss greatly
Would love to see the Snorlax vid, it would be pretty slick to get pursuit back
9:44 small error here, Eternabeam is 160 BP, not 150
I suppose it doesn't matter anymore 🥺
A lot of signature moves are back with home but they are not the same at all. The animations are a big downgrade imo
This, along with the Dex cut, is why Ultra Sun/Moon are the last main Pokegames I have.
This is a sign that Moxie is about to go on his valiant quest to delete Ally Switch and Smeargle
Hidden Power was also a nightmare unless you RNG in most cases until its base power was fixed.
and even when it was it was still a big pain as one more thing to RNG on top of the perfect IVs. I did a bit in gen 6 with the friend safari, the held item that let you pass down 3+ perfect IVs on one pokemon, and fixed Hidden Power Base Damage, I don't know how people actually managed to keep their sanity breeding optimal pokemon before gen 6, especially the ones going for either mixed attackers who needed 6 perfect IVs or special attackers who go for 5 perfect IVs and one 0 IV in attack.
Tail Glow: "I'm Back Honey~~~"
I would assume Return/Frustration and especially Hidden Power were removed for reasons of not making the battle system too unclear to new players (which sucks) if they didn’t also keep making new evolution methods that are more obtuse than Mew under the truck.
I miss Pursuit like you wouldn't believe
Geeeez I didn’t even realize magnitude got removed
kind of lame that Eternabeam was cut cus they could've just recolored the hyper beam animation or smth for future games
like I doubt anyone would give them grief for not keeping the over the top animation
I'm gonna miss being able to use Autotomize on Celesteela and Necrozma :(
Pursuit is the one that made me mad. It had no business being removed
They should have remade eternabeam animation similar to origin pulse atleast
I’ve never seen that eternatis move before 😮
2:39 actually dittos started running minimum friendship toward the end of the generation so return became the better option.
I think the best way they could implement eternabeam is just having Eternatus fly up and smite the enemy with a laser and just suggesting in the info it turns into eternamax form without the model.
I think Ally Switch went to Cinderace due to his football inspirations. Sometimes footballers exchange positions in the field to confuse defenders
they took Ice Ball away and I will not forgive them for it
Bro I miss scald
I still wanna know why heal order specifically was removed. Like why didn’t vespiquen get it back along with its other moves
The one move I really miss is Sky Uppercut. Give my man Blaziken his Shoryuken back
Well that’s why ultra necrozma wasnt brought back, cause they don’t want a form change with a Z-stone
I am in principle fine with removing hidden power and return. They always felt too splashable to me, which was exacerbated by the fact that _everyone_ could learn them. They muddied a pokemon's distinct identity.
But the crux with return is that it's not so easy to replace, because there aren't that many good normal moves. Sure, hyper beam is cool, but it's not good. Given that normal is the only type without any super effective targets, you'd think it would deserve some more consistent, strong moves, but i guess not...
I think its pretty odd every mon can learn return but I wouldn't really say they were splashable, normal moves on non normal types are pretty niche as you usually want a coverage move that can hit what walls your stab, or provides something that pressures a specific mon, something return just doesn't really do. The only mon that comes to mind that wasn't a normal type that liked having it was klingkalng and that is because it has one of the worst offensive move pools in the game.
It really just sadly hurt normal types locking them into body slam as their main tab which while not bad the drop in power is pretty notable.
I remember running Skarmory with Toxic and Sky Drop to stall addtional toxic turns.
I miss eternabeam 😭
I'm thinking abount an eventual gen 5 remake or whatever they decide to make where Stoutland can't use Return
Also Can you make a video about moves that requires more distribution? (We need more mons with it)
Like Vacuun Wave or Spirit break, Volt Tackle... you tell me
I know the move can come back if Heliolisk or Boltund come back but i missed playing Electrify Lighting Rod Deoxys Speed in Pure Hackmons and make people ragequit
I miss Comet Punch
i wonder if Light of Ruin will someday be available in any game
I hate they took Weather ball from alot of pokemon...especially the weather djinn trio/quartet...
Tutors hope
Weather quartet got WB back...
Eternabeam was given to galarian articuno
Cap🧢
Power up punch
Taking out all of these moves was good
Rare GF W
Hail got removed from Gen 9 and replaced with Snowscape
Terrain pulse on clawitzer 😥
Still exist on Arboliva
@@AI-DreigonGPT that's not a clawitzer is it
We need more Scald
Scald isn't a deleted move
@@Fisticutz Yes but how many Pokémon have Lost scald
Snorlax Video; yes please!
I thought tail glow is still in the game?
It was reintroduced in the DLC
I will never forget the half hour fight between delicatty and cradily against ORAS Stephen, assist has left a paw shaped hole in my heart 🥲
UPDATE: Tail Glow came back on Manaphy in S/V. This means Xurkitree might get it too
Got bad news for ya, bro
What about Volbeat?? That's what matters the most!
Seriously I'm still puzzled as to why they removed Signal Beam, it was a decent special bug type coverage move. Many electric types like Ampharos and Jolteon got it.
They need more special bug type moves there aren't many outside Bug Buzz, You only have Silver Wind and Struggle bug, both are weaker than Signal beam.
Another Signal Beam enjoyer! It was also the only bug type move that could cause confusion!
Silver Wind got cut too 😞
@@CaptainObliviousV I know right, its such a weird move to get rid of, when there are clones of moves that mostly went unused.
They want people to use special attacking bug types or moves but they now lack STAB moves on the special until they Bug buzz in the late game.
Signal beam should have had MORE pokemon learn it rather that cutting the move from game.
Them Cutting Signal Beam and Silver Wind is just stupid
Volbeat getting both its signature moves deleted,
Its really a shadow of its former self.
(Who am I kidding? people can still use it for Sunny Day and STAB U-Turn, so it doesn't really change anything.)
For Singles players, none were anywhere near as destructive as the removal of Pursuit. Gen 8 and now Gen 9 have been absolutely dominated by powerful ghost types, and Pursuit would do a lot to keep them in check.
HP was arguably as relevant in my stupid brain dumb opinion. Also, dark types have been incredible for the last two gens, and buffing them in any remotely universal way would proooobably be very bad for singles metas.
Pursuit kingambit sounds terrifying
imagine Pursuit on Chien-Pao
@@bluetrip_honestly I’ve been sad that Pursuit was removed, but I never considered how much stronger it would make Dark types, rather than just weakening Ghosts.
Hot take: Give us Pursuit AND a Special equivalent, then make sure Pokemon that learn either favor the other stat
Did you know that Vespiquen’s Heal Order and Defend Order got cut? This is weird bc Vespiquen was not only in SW/SH, but also bc it got to keep Attack Order
Defend Order wasn’t cut, and it still gets Roost. Honestly, that’s pretty good compared to others.
Heal order is just cooler roost, and it doesn’t get rid of ur flying type, and it Alr exists so why remov eit
@@jpshy1130getting rid of your flying type is good to avoid super effective electric and ice type attacks
I always hated the fact that Signal Beam is and still gone, the fact that it’s hard enough for quite bit electric types can’t get a diverse attacking set like Jolteon and Magnezone but also that it’s another unique bug type move with it’s secondary effect, decent power, gave me ways to pester more dark and psychic types with my special attackers
A fun fact: The move "Light Of Ruin" may not ring a bell, since it's exclusive to an event only Eternal Flower form of Floette, which was never distributed.
However, this move is fully coded into Scarlet/Violet, implying we may in the future be able to obtain this pokemon!
It's such a tragedy that we never got AZ's floette and the fact that they keep coding it in is like a kick in the teeth
Tbf everything that's removed is always in the codes of every game even if they aren't ultimately added to the games.
@@Kyumifun moves such as pursuit do not have code in the game outside of the description saying it cannot be used.
this move does have code for what it does
@@OPGardevoir Well, the actual form is not coded into SV and it was removed from HOME's form data some time ago.
@@Kyumifunthe really strange part is that not only does light of ruin have a unique animation, that animation has received a few visual updates.
I miss signal beam. It gave so many Pokémon coverage that didn’t have a lot of.
Yeah, I agree
It's weird because many of the moves deleted were useless or gimmicky so it's fair to say why they were deleted. But signal beam was just an usual attacking move. It's like if they deleted iron tail or something like that
It was also the best STAB move for most of the Bug types that could use it.
I didn't even know Tail Glow had been removed. Damn that really sucks.
It’s back volbeat coming to a nu tier near you
A deleted move I miss even if it wasn't that big was Sky Uppercut. It's a Fighting-type attack that can hit opponents in the middle of a semi-invulnerable Flying-type move. Useless since they probably are Flying-type and thus resist it? Probably. But flavor-wise, it's a massive fighting game reference - jumping uppercuts like the Shoryuken are typically useful as "anti-airs" to knock a jumping opponent out of the air.
Instead of removing it, they should have buffed it, if it was used on a flying or bouncing Pokemon it should bypass accuracy check and deal double damage.
Another move that randomly got cut between generations was Woobat's signature move, Heart Stamp.
The strange thing about this is that not only did Heart Stamp get cut in Sword and Shield but Woobat was a Pokemon you *_can_* catch in Sword and Shield essentially striping away it's identity for no real reason.
I didn’t even notice it got cut 💀
Eeeh
Simple Nasty Plot and Calm Mind would be more in line with Swoobat's ACTUAL identity
Honestly though it’s just a weaker version of Zen Headbutt.
@@tonberry2670that's not important to the lore...
Heal Order also got cut despite Vespiquen being in the game too. It still has Attack and Defend Order even in S/V, but it's still a bit of a shame that its signature identity isn't as complete as it once was.
Bug isn’t the easiest type to have coverage for which is why the removal of Signal Beam baffles me.
They be hating on my underrated squad 🗣️🗣️🗣️
I feel that people understate the importance of pursuit being removed. While it may be really bad in doubles, it was one of the most important ways to keep mons in check. Mons like calyrex shadow, or dragapult would not be nearly as broken if pursuit was in the game.
tera messes with this a little but yeah
And Gholdengo wouldn't be so meta in gen 9
@@supremechaosbeing2696still you essentially force a tera which is very good in a meta where Kingambit is on so many teams
Now, imagine Kingambit and Chien Pao with pursuit
Pursuit was less checking ghost and psychic mons and more like handicapping them
Imagine hating your boy unown so much you take away it's only move 😢
Pursuit was my favorite move for honchkrow. it was literally my UU trump card for OU. you didnt know if I would sucker punch or pursuit (mind games) and with that moxie ability, it quickly snowballed to a sweeping pokemon. heck ive even brought it to Ubers and beaten legendaries.
The moves I miss are rock slides and hydro pumps tbh
Lmao
But he hits every focus blast and hypnosis so that's a win
Return and Frustration were likely cut because of how Friendship mechanics changed starting with Gen 8.
Wait DID they change? I didn't know that
GF: "We're changing the way Friendship works in the new games, so we're deleting Return and Frustration."
"Just update the moves so they function with the new mechanics?"
GF: "No."
The worst part is that Double Team and Minimize continue to exist even thought they should have been the first ones in the cutting room.
From Gens 2-7 the only justification for their continued existence was the fact that no moves had ever been removed. By all means they should have been gone in SS and never come back.
fr minimize and double team are the most annoying and unfair thing to play against
I wouldn't mind Evasion moves BUT there are just not enough natural counters against them!!
and ppl should only be able to use them like TWICE
And yet they decided to remove foresight, oder sluth and magic eye which are the counters to them.
@@mlpfanboy1701no way 😮
Wouldnt it be simplier to Just ban certain moves from tournaments
I don’t think Eternamax’s model is why the move was removed. They could’ve just changed the animation to Eternatus flying up, beams raining down, and Eternatus lands back down. But then again, I also don’t have a reason for why they removed it, so who knows?
Speaking of Eternabeam, wouldn’t it have been A LOT more useable if it hit both opponents in a double battle? It’s a rain of exploding beams, why does it only hit one Pokemon?!
It only hits one pokemon because it's what the other ones do.
Return/Frustration probably were due the fact rental teams were going to be a thing, and GF did not wanna mess with dealing on how that would work lol
didn t they also change how friendshipp worked?
It's not that hard. You'd just have the Friendship value be stored with the Pokemon.
The most annoying removals to me are the various lower-power moves that have been cut over the years. Yeah, they aren't competetively useful, but it makes training pokemon far less interesting when the pool of lower power moves they can learn as they grow is much more shallow. Competetive and endgame ain't everything.
Some of the support removals that saw limited use and were thus cut are kind of a bummer now that raids are a thing and support has a wider reach. Like, during the Samurott event I went looking for a Lucky Chant user only to find that had been cut. Mud and Water Sport could be interesting in raids, also gone. Ditto for Foresight / Odor Sleuth / Magic Eye. Telekinesis could be fun raid support, gone. Even something like Rototiller could be very handy for specific raid situations.
Also as other people have mentioned, Signal Beam. Really not sure why they needed to remove that one, it was a serviceable coverage option on a lot of pokemon and a mid-level special bug attack between Struggle Bug and Bug Buzz. I guess it could be because it started out as a signiture move on Volbeat so they just cut it when that got Dexit'd, but I feel like it definitely could have stuck around.
the in between power moves that got cut like flame burst just makes level up movesets way less interesting
Even as a mostly casual player, Return being gone is so annoying.