Ogre Kingdoms being OK is probably fitting ;) Disagree heavily with your rankings as an Ogre player. Ironguts are clearly the better choice than bulls. With veteran and LD 8 they are pretty reliable and unlike the bulls they actually do some good damage. An extra attack doesn't really cut it compared to +2 STR +2 AP. Maneaters are excellent, you kind of have to see them on the board to understand it I'd rank them B tier. Leadbelchers sadly are not very useful, their shooting is unreliable and not even all that effective when it does hit (Almost always on 5s, 6s or worse). Yhetees are actually quite solid, with swiftstride and good speed, plus some decent offensive stats. Don't sleep on their numbing chill rule it's actually pretty great.
Chaos Ogres of Khorne with Great Weapons are extremely under-rated and more efficient than Dragon Ogres, yes thats correct folks, you heard it from me first. You can thank me later 😎
Dragon ogres however, allow you to take a single Shartok, I think they have different roles. I agree that ogres with great weapons offer something different.
Don't think steed of shadows works with chaos spawn, since they move during compulsory moves and then the fly doesn't do anything during remaining moves?
They FAQ'd it: "When a model with this special rule moves, roll the dice to determine its maximum movement." It doesn't make movement in compulsory mandatory therefore - RAW, perhaps not RAI in your opinion?
@MalignMusings I guess it's open to interpretation, I didn't see that. Random movement also says this "Models with this special rule move during the Compulsory Moves sub-phase", so giving it fly, not sure if it means you can ignore this mandate, or that this means using this rule is when you apply this condition
*Tree Kin have to be A tier* Their very tanky and tree wacky is great against monstrous infantry as they lack initiative. Plus they have a stomp. *Rat Ogres are B tier* WS4 is very high for monstrous infantry and I4 is insanely high. They hit pretty hard and most likely going first. I think you highly underrated them as their one of the better things in kaven book. *Crypt Horrors are lower B tier* Just worst Tree kin, they have poison and are a little cheaper.
I re-read the tree whack ability the other day, I agree I've probably got them wrong. Rat ogres have frenzy though and I cannot overstate enough how little control you have with a unit with frenzy, it's not the charging, it's the inability to reform after a charge, you lose them for several turns as they're chasing after nothing most of the time. I blow hot and cold on everything in the skaven book. I love me ratmen, I don't think anything is written that well. I'm not sure there's a world where crypt horrors are equal to ogres, although Could concede this point. The peril of small differences...
@@MalignMusings Rat ogres have at least some killing power in an army with very little. Plus Skaven have plenty of chaff to counter frenzy and their army list is horrible. Also you rated Vargheists very high but they have frenzy, skirmisher and fly. This means they have a 360 degree, 15 inch charge range. Super easy to bait if you have a unit of scouts and your going to want to hope they don't have fire and flee. Crypt Horrors trade ogres impact hit for a stomp, their T5 does make them hard to to wound.
I am informed that Vargheists don't really find this problematic as they have such a large reach that their general can select from a variety of viable targets such that a forced charge is rarely suboptimal, again I am informed of this...
@@MalignMusings Yeah but your going to be force to move where ever the scouts are, this is huge if the vampire doesn't get first turn as it allows for the scouts player to set up a charge on the T4 Vargheists at the top to of turn 2.
Again, I had a chat with a chap who won a tournament with a few in his list and he was quite complimentary. I had the same queries but am informed it's not really a problem.
Fiends are interesting,.I've seen them be quite successful hunting light chaff, war machines, even charging medium cav, and great flanking. They are very squishy though, but think they aren't bad per wound for effectively cav.
Love the overview and your thoughts behind each unit, Ty!!
YW!
Ogre Kingdoms being OK is probably fitting ;)
Disagree heavily with your rankings as an Ogre player. Ironguts are clearly the better choice than bulls. With veteran and LD 8 they are pretty reliable and unlike the bulls they actually do some good damage. An extra attack doesn't really cut it compared to +2 STR +2 AP.
Maneaters are excellent, you kind of have to see them on the board to understand it I'd rank them B tier. Leadbelchers sadly are not very useful, their shooting is unreliable and not even all that effective when it does hit (Almost always on 5s, 6s or worse).
Yhetees are actually quite solid, with swiftstride and good speed, plus some decent offensive stats. Don't sleep on their numbing chill rule it's actually pretty great.
Chaos Ogres of Khorne with Great Weapons are extremely under-rated and more efficient than Dragon Ogres, yes thats correct folks, you heard it from me first.
You can thank me later 😎
Dragon ogres however, allow you to take a single Shartok, I think they have different roles. I agree that ogres with great weapons offer something different.
Minotaurs are even better than what you explained them as. When they get frenzy off their Primal Rage, they get +2 attacks, not +1
I gave them S tier - like I'm not sure I could have been much more complimentary. You are of course correct, they're pretty amazing all round.
is there any way around the bladi stubidity test
My poor Carrion being ignored
Can't remember where I put carrion?
@@MalignMusingsin the trash where it goes
I might have to agree with this, I reckon they are C tier at least, like they have fly, so can march and are mobile, but carry almost no threat.
Did you do wizards already?
I commented too quick!!!!!
Don't think steed of shadows works with chaos spawn, since they move during compulsory moves and then the fly doesn't do anything during remaining moves?
RAW it says infantry that has not already moved. Don't move them during compulsory, then cast steed of shadows and they get fly 12?
@@MalignMusings random movement ruling says it must move that amount, so I don't think you can "not move" unless i'm missing something
They FAQ'd it: "When a model with this special rule moves, roll the dice to
determine its maximum movement." It doesn't make movement in compulsory mandatory therefore - RAW, perhaps not RAI in your opinion?
@MalignMusings I guess it's open to interpretation, I didn't see that. Random movement also says this "Models with this special rule move during the Compulsory
Moves sub-phase", so giving it fly, not sure if it means you can ignore this mandate, or that this means using this rule is when you apply this condition
*Tree Kin have to be A tier*
Their very tanky and tree wacky is great against monstrous infantry as they lack initiative. Plus they have a stomp.
*Rat Ogres are B tier*
WS4 is very high for monstrous infantry and I4 is insanely high. They hit pretty hard and most likely going first. I think you highly underrated them as their one of the better things in kaven book.
*Crypt Horrors are lower B tier*
Just worst Tree kin, they have poison and are a little cheaper.
I re-read the tree whack ability the other day, I agree I've probably got them wrong.
Rat ogres have frenzy though and I cannot overstate enough how little control you have with a unit with frenzy, it's not the charging, it's the inability to reform after a charge, you lose them for several turns as they're chasing after nothing most of the time. I blow hot and cold on everything in the skaven book. I love me ratmen, I don't think anything is written that well.
I'm not sure there's a world where crypt horrors are equal to ogres, although Could concede this point. The peril of small differences...
@@MalignMusings Rat ogres have at least some killing power in an army with very little. Plus Skaven have plenty of chaff to counter frenzy and their army list is horrible.
Also you rated Vargheists very high but they have frenzy, skirmisher and fly. This means they have a 360 degree, 15 inch charge range. Super easy to bait if you have a unit of scouts and your going to want to hope they don't have fire and flee.
Crypt Horrors trade ogres impact hit for a stomp, their T5 does make them hard to to wound.
I am informed that Vargheists don't really find this problematic as they have such a large reach that their general can select from a variety of viable targets such that a forced charge is rarely suboptimal, again I am informed of this...
@@MalignMusings Yeah but your going to be force to move where ever the scouts are, this is huge if the vampire doesn't get first turn as it allows for the scouts player to set up a charge on the T4 Vargheists at the top to of turn 2.
Again, I had a chat with a chap who won a tournament with a few in his list and he was quite complimentary. I had the same queries but am informed it's not really a problem.
if you think minos are good, you played max 5 games bro XDDD
What's your experience, why am I wrong, keen to get feedback from people with experience.
Fiends are interesting,.I've seen them be quite successful hunting light chaff, war machines, even charging medium cav, and great flanking. They are very squishy though, but think they aren't bad per wound for effectively cav.
Expensive though...
@@MalignMusings they are although 22pts a wound isn't crazy expensive in that category
yeah, I guess... again, I'll have to rebase all my daemons and get them on the table!