Personalized 1-on-1 language lessons with native teachers on italki Buy $10 get $5 for free for your first lesson using my code THELINGOTTER. Web: go.italki.com/thelingottersep App: go.italki.com/thelingottersepapp Sign up for the Language Challenge: go.italki.com/thelingotterlc Corrections: I say "theory" in this video by mistake, but these are actually just hypotheses! Also, if you're interested in taking lessons with the tutor in this video, check Juri sensei out at this link! www.italki.com/en/teacher/8867486
I think its the same thing for me for dutch and español Thats all duo has taught me Spreek je en Engels and tu habla ingles Idk if dutch was correct lol
Reading a book you know well is amazing for comprehensible input. It basically makes it so you can read i+2 or 3 with just as much ease as i+1, because you already know the context of the story and you can verify if you read something correctly by simply using your own knowledge of the book. I did this when learning Latin; after reading Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata to get a good foundation in the language's grammar, I started reading the Hobbit in Latin which after like 3 or 4 chapters I just didn't need to consult a dictionary for anymore. Sadly Latin word order is so flexible that when translating English into it you can basically keep the English word order in tact, which didn't prepare me for actual Latin literature, but the vocabulary boost that reading that book gave me really skyrocketed by Latin capabilities so much that it didn't even really matter. Another great thing about the Hobbit specifically is that Tolkien wrote it for his kids, and I noticed while reading that he actually introduces words in a mario level design-esque way; where he first introduces a word that's a bit more difficult than the rest on the page with lots of context so you can fill in the meaning with context, and then later because you already know the word, he uses it normally without any context. So it's like he wrote it with i+1 specifically in mind
This. I always recommend learners to re-watch/re-listen/re-read content that they’ve consumed before. It really works wonders, and I was able to finish JoJo part 1 in nearly the same time as I did in English, and I gradually acquired words as I watched.
Yesss I feel like books like The Hobbit and The Little Prince (I recently finished reading it japanese) are fantastic for that, as they're pretty well written and potentially interesting to re-read even for an adolescent / adult learner, and at the same time don't provide excessively hard vocabulary and grammar
This is great advice! I really liked going to youtube and find songs that I know really well and add "letras" so that I would get the english song with a spanish translation in real time. I realize it probably doesn't work for every language, but it is a great strategy for comprehensible input.
I’m taking ASL right now and the things explained at 8:36 are already kind of built into learning the language. Because my teacher is deaf, there is at all times a no voice policy. If you can’t express something in ASL, you can use a whiteboard to write down what you want to say, but if you say anything at all it’s deemed disrespectful. This method is absolutely possible, you just have to make important distinctions and guidelines.
As a fellow scarf-wearing otter who adores languages and linguistics, I've been loving what you make! Thanks for all the interesting, well-presented content
This video is great! A lot of videos say that you "only need input". While I agree that input is probably one of the most crucial parts, I always felt like traditional learning 1 or 2 times a week at least helps out a lot.
In the intermediate stages, you def do not need traditional learning as much, as you would be solely doing input and possibly some output too. Like with grammar for example, I personally look most of them up in the target language.
I started "acquiring" greek a year ago. I never learned a grammatical rule or conjugation table. I now had the chance to go to Greece 2 months back and it was magical. Never before have I spoken with another person but suddenly I was able to understand ~60% of what I've heard. I've had a 10 min conversation about the son of this woman who is a musician, studied in Australia and now tours Greece as a successful Lyra player. It definitely was not a "beginner conversation". I now am certain that within the next year I will reach a point at which I can call myself a greek - speaker. I have basically only read using lingq. At the moment I am reading Harry potter in greek and am enjoying it because of the story. A year back I knew basically nothing.
I mean....most of european languages are easy to learn becz of their obvious (mostly-phonetic) orthography. But chinese and japanese? Nah...fcking hell.
Speaking with natives is a surprisingly great way to boost your language fluency. I remember speaking with Spanish natives for the first time & I didn’t get to speak much due to anxiety. But after a while(in like a week or so), I can now engage in conversation & most importantly voice my confusion & learn from them themselves. It’s critical cuz your brain will notice you don’t use your input irl, & thus wouldn’t care much to remember it if it can. Memory recall is a separate skill from simply memorizing. I recommend putting pressure on yourself(safely). What I did was put my ego on the line by talking to some Spanish girls. It was embarrassingly hilarious & fun. Note: I was intermediate when I started talking to natives but I wish I started earlier!
Easy, switch your system language/game to whatever language you want to learn. Hearing my character talk with subtitles on while doing stuff in context-sensitive situations skyrocketed my comprehension. I played games like Overwatch (lots of voicelines from many different characters in specific situations) and Dead by Daylight (hundreds of perks with descriptions of what they do). Those 2 games alone made me fluent in Spanish over several months just by playing and occasionally looking up a word.
As someone who fucked around and very inefficiently learned 4 languages, it's kinda nice to see certain concepts I've come to understand intuitively being formalized. Thanks for all of your hard work providing such high quality content for free.
In my experience, these are all more "yes, and..." than "no, but...". I think Stephen Krashen is correct in that input is the *necessary and sufficient* component of the language acquisition process, as even the output theory relies on eventual input. You can't learn something without observation of some kind. But if you only rely on input, it's going to be a very slow process. Active learning (mainly of grammar), output, and interaction are all massive speed multipliers for the process of language acquisition, even though the core of the process is input. What I tend to do is get a rough overview of basic grammar, then a lot of bilingual input where I try to decide and reword the translations, then back to more advanced grammar, then input again and some interaction. Eventually, I'm just using the language regularly and I've internalized it to the point of automaticity.
I learned my 4th language through input ALONE. i didnt even know that i knew the language until way after learning it. So i know which method works for me now. I wanna learn a lot of languages
Love your work man! Gave me the motivation to take Spanish II. I hated taking Spanish I because I didn't understand the language . With your videos, I can start to understand why a language is a language and how it works.
Never thought I’d have an otter and a penguin as language gurus lmao, sounds like an anime plot 😂 (For context, the penguin is another UA-cam channel called Trenton, he recently ‘popped off’ with a video on combining immersion learning with supplementary study using a specific set of tools, including Anki- for learning Japanese. The video was presented really well and has been a great help, as have all his videos since then (the Anki deep dive video is invaluable, 100/10 worth watching if new to Anki)
It would take a huge volume of reading material to learn a language's grammar by context alone. Just the different combinations of expressions for a particular subject such as asking the time would require reading 50 books or more. • What time is it? • Do you have the time? • What time do we have to be there • What time do you have? •What time does it start? • Do you have the starting time? • Is that the right time? • Time to go or we'll be late. I could think of another 50 examples. In another language they might require different conjugations, auxiliaries or some other grammatical device to make a different sentence. Not a fan of reading alone with translation. Learn the Grammar and make it interesting. When you build a house you need the materials (vocabulary) and the schematics or architectural plan(grammar) of the house. With just the building materials you can have a go at building the house but it will take longer and probably collapse.
Great video! The best way for me was speaking Spanish to my students and Tagalog with my family. If I mess up, I don't really get embarrassed, and my students appreciate the fact that I'm learning their native language. Also, I concentrate only on speaking and listening. I feel it is faster for me, and it motivates me to continue. I now read here and there, though.
I bought the Korean translation of a manga to learn and so far it's been really useful. I can't read full books yet but the everyday expressions as well as all the pictures for context and - importantly - a story that makes me come back are really helpful :)
I think the different methods are good for different stages of the learning process. Understanding the basics through traditional instruction is good for the early stages because it can serve as a springboard into input. Input is good starting at the advanced beginner stage, and on through the rest of the stages, and it's necessary to build a robust internal model of the language via input so that when you're outputting, you can "feel" when something doesn't sound quite right. Writing-based output becomes useful at the high-intermediate and low-advanced stage, for the reasons you mentioned that it allows you to take your time and double check your grammar, and it's easier for a native to correct. Lastly, speaking directly with a native speaker is highly useful at the low-advanced to advanced stages, because by that time you have a well-tuned internal model of the sounds and grammar of the language, you've started to formulate thoughts through writing, and you're ready to start to speak and build a sense of ease and automaticity in your output. I don't think any of the approaches necessarily CAN'T be done at different points, but that there are times where they are more effective and you'll get more bang for your buck. Trying to speak before you've really spent hours and hours listening isn't going to really do much for you, and traditional study of grammar isn't as useful for helping you getting comfortable speaking. Just my $0.02 after having learned french and now learning Gaelic.
I'm an ESL. I can write, read and listen very well (or at least decently), but I really struggle with speaking. I can say that all the time I spend on anglophone internet helped me except in that regard.
The best language instruction I have recieved was at a Basque euskaltegi, and it was basically a combination of all methods here. The instruction language is Spanish but we are expected to use Basque more and more as we progress, and to have the classroom as a place where people speak from day 1. However, there is also comprehensible output in the form of reading, videos, audios, and the teacher explaining students things. There is also grammar instruction involved. I was learning this for a year alongside Chinese, for which my approach was input-heavy, and I would say I have reached a similar level on both. I could not sustain an input-heavy approach for an European language other than English because I don't find content in said language that is engaging to my tastes. Nowadays I'm waiting to take new classes for the next level of Basque, and for Chinese I do textbook and pure reading every day I can. It honestly seems like a good amount of input (but perhaps not only input) and consistency is the way to truly acquire a language.
this video is so cute, but at the same time really useful!!!!!!! i love ur videos! I really thought that dobling was a word, bc English is my second language
do you think you’d ever do a video on sign languages? i’m learning american sign language, and i’d love a video about how sign languages develop, how they differ from spoken languages (besides the obvious of course), sign language slang, sign languages around the world, or anything else you’d want to talk about!!!!
This probably is wrong but to me the difference between acquiring and learning is short term versus long term memory. When it’s acquired it’s in my long term memory and I know it for good. Of course this happens when I’m not paying attention because you can’t control your long term memory the way you can your short term memory.
I used these methods to learn Japanese. I focused mostly on learning common phrases first (Thanks you, Nice to meet you, My name is ___, etc.) to get a feel for the language. Then I spent a while hardcore studying words with lots of input (both speech and reading) and turning that input into i+1 Anki sentence cards. For grammar, I read through a basic guide to understand the basics of how nouns and verbs worked as well as sentence structure. For everything else, I would just look up rules as I came across something new. AI was useful for that since it could both identify and explain the grammar in one step. Once I was able to listen and read most materials without outside resources, I started really focusing on output. I say focusing, as I did do basic output practice while doing input to reinforce what I was learning, but it was only 10% of the time I spent learning Japanese each day early on. Eventually, I spent about 60% of my time on input and 40% on output. After about 3 years in, I stopped "studying" Japanese and now I just use the language as a language for daily communication with Japanese people I've met and just watching anime or Japanese UA-camrs. I don't live in Japan so I'm probably not as fluent as people who do, but I can enjoy 95% of Japanese media just fine and have fluent conversations with real people which was my goal.
Learning my second language, I had a mixture of input and output. From my own experience, that was what was the most beneficial. I also had native speakers in my immediate family, so I could easily learn from them. I'm somewhere in B level nowadays, but when I used it more often I was B2, approaching C.
Good breakdown. And thank you for highlighting the cons of Krashen theory, I see so many UA-camrs parade it and its variations as the be all and end all of language learning, like "this is how your brain works", but it is some of its downsides that don't work for me. I've generally tried to start with grammar because I like to be able to play with the language to get a feel for how it works. But also, input theory only works if you can find material in your target language that is i+1, it's funny you mention Mongolian because it is my target language (well once I am back onto it after I have progressed to where I want to be with Turkish). I've struggled to find comprehensive input for my language level. There was like 1 children's book that was super basic that I got through very quickly. But I know where I can find videos, TV, movies and books in Mongolian at least. It was sort of the same with Vietnamese but a little better because I think the books I could find were probably aimed at around B1 level (maybe even B2) and I found a book in a comic strip format that's probably for an A2 level, which I did end up using at least and I did pick up a book of folk stories when I was in Vietnam, but it's not enough comprehensive input to rely on the input method. I'd have to find a teacher who can teach in that method, but I found that guy I met on iTalki generally really helpful and stuck with him and he mixed using a textbook and the output method. Fortunately for Turkish, Olly Richards has a Storylearning course and Beelingua supports it. But the interaction method sounds like it has some weight, I just need to get over that feeling that I might be bothering people. With that said, with the few broken Mongolian interactions I've had over the internet, it has been helpful, because it's text-based and I'm thinking about how I'm constructing my sentences and because of my low level I need to look stuff up. And I know a few speakers so I might have to try to embrace it more once I get back onto it. And with Turkish, I am learning alongside a friend whose neighbour is Turkish, so I already have people I can interact with, but I am focusing on Storylearning first, because it has a good mix of input, output and grammar.
I love your channel!! Keep up the great work 💪🏼 I've been learning Spanish for almost a year now (traveling through Latin America for most of it) and this video is kinda like critiquing my learning style hahaha, honestly I'd say I've been utilizing all 3 theories (having only heard of input theory before) just off my own intuition and curiosity and I've achieved an impressive level of Spanish according to native speakers (I haven't taken an official test but I feel like I'm probably around b2-c1 although my Mexican friend says she thinks I'm probably around c1-c2)
It reassuring to hear that my plan is confirmed by someone else. I'm currently working through the basics with Genki 1, maybe 2 and will later do a 2k vocab Anki deck. Afterwards just native japanese input and sentence mining.
Please please please check out Cure Dolly before you do anything else with Genki. She explains some foundational things that Genki never seems to think you're smart enough to understand, and it honestly makes the language actually make sense. I hate Genki, but I'm not saying you should throw it out, just get that external understanding and apply it to their lessons.
I often use the output and input theory without knowing when talking to my family in spanish. I would think of how to say my idea and then say it. But when i'm stuck i would ask what a certain word is or how to convey it. Then resume. I didn't "get" spanish when i was young, so when i learnt proper grammer in Highschool, i began practicing more at home. Combining input and output with some proper learning for conjegations. Although i'm stuck around an elementary level😅.
I think Krashen is right in every way, except for the idea that input alone is sufficient. It may be sufficient for a child learning their native language, but for an adult L2 learner, the amount of input you would need to truly acquire your language is massive. The downside of being an adult is your brain is no longer plastic and you no longer have parents to give you comprehensible input for 8 hours a day, every day, for years. The upside is that your adult brain is capable of studying the grammar, shortcutting and accelerating some of the acquisition process. The output part is also indispensable for identifying the gaps in your abilities. When I'm listening to a podcast, I'm not always thinking about whether they used the right form of a verb, I just hear that verb and understand the meaning from context. It's only when I go to use that verb myself that I have to both remember it and know how to use the right form of it.
In German class, we constantly translated from German to Norwegian and vice versa, aswell as getting writing tasks in to be answered in German. Also I took the class with two friends so it was fun and we constantly talked, and I corrected them, it also helped that I am a grammar nerd. Therefore I actually got grade 5 in that class.
In my experience learning croatian, I was asked for a lot of output, writing essays, etc. My problem was that I tried to bring foreign words or structure to my croatian, where they have another more "natural" way of saying. So when I was speaking with people, they always said I was speaking weird, using strange words, etc. I realized I have to shut up and listen more, for me input is way more important than output.
5:30 as an argentinian, i know that the red and blue rectangles mean the same thing, just that they use diferent dialects. argentines, uruguayans, paraguayans, and central americans ALL use the words in the blue rectangle which mean the same as the red words, but stress the second vocals as showed with the stress mark (`)
Personally, I recommend doing some study in the beginning so you can learn the basics, then find some comprehensible input on YT. Or do study and comprehensible input at the same time, any works. I did the first variation for Japanese, worked really well but it may be a bit slower. I’m using the second variation of the method for my 7 Day French challenge, and I’ve achieved good results in only 3 days into the challenge. I’m definitely not good at French but the amount I’ve learned so far has been surprising.
I’ve become pretty much fluent in English, I speak French around B2 level, and I’ve got my B1 certificate in German. I also speak pretty fluent toki pona, if that counts. I am currently trying to deepen my knowledge of these languages and also learn Modern Greek, Japanese, and Mongolian. After becoming fluent in some of these, I want to learn Sanskrit close to native level and a Celtic language or an endangered language, such as Okinawan. So here’s my experience. I need grammar. I hate having to express myself without knowing the least bit of theory on how it works. There are some languages that work slightly without much grammar, like French, but some languages require you to just re-learn how to think before speaking, like Japanese and Mongolian. Bht I’ve got pretty good at it. So good, that I find myself hiding behind grammar lessons in order to skip the word learning. And this is my main problem right now. I have the structure, but I have no idea how to name things. I’m also pretty tome deaf. I watch German series in order to improve my understanding of the language, to get used to the sounds, and to get the right phrasings and intonations. Most problematic are my speaking skills. I can write full essays in French, but when I open my mouth, I suddenly sound retarded. I have no one to speak to. Next year, I’m going into college. I want to study English, German, and French. Maybe the academic environment will be of some help. And I want to take Mongolian online classes. Currently, Nomiin Ger are the only ones that offer such services, but I’m happy with it. My best friend is trying to get in the same college and wants to study Japanese. You bet we will be trying to have conversations in Japanese and I will use her books. Language learning is not that easy (unless it’s toki pona). The secret is to not give up. And don’t be discouraged by all those people on UA-cam who have learned eight languages in two years! One day, maybe you will be speaking better than some natives (it’s a common fact that some English learners acquire better grammar and more advanced vocabulary than some natives).
Obviously this is pretty anecdotal but in my high school we had an optional english learning course done by a native english speaker who also taught us some science stuff in english (it was a STEM focused high school) and had some lessons made to prepare us for a fancy english proficiency test handled by cambridge university. This meant we had our regular english teacher handling the regular "learning english" stuff like grammar, plus some "acquiring english" in the form of studying english literature. We then had this other native english speaker who handled the "interaction" side of it and mostly spoke to us in english and vice versa (though he would often randomly switch to a single italian word in the sentence) while also again handling some "learning" by preparing us for the test and also the "acquiring" by teaching us unrelated topics like science in english. Almost all of the class signed up for that cambridge exam. It had a target of C1, which in cambridge's classification means good enough for clear communication in professional settings (it goes A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2, with A1 being a child who just learned how to ask to go to the bathroom and C2 being native level). Only one girl failed, everyone else passed the C1 test and three people in the class (myself included) got a score high enough that it actually counted as C2 instead. I'd say this is a pretty decent anecdote to go along with the idea that mixing together these various styles is probably the best approach, but there is also an extra detail. The three of us who passed with the highest scores are some of the nerdiest guys in the class. We are the ones who spend their free time watching random youtube videos in english rather than tv series in italian on netflix. We are the ones playing video games often in english since italian isn't as common of a language option as other european languages, and also talking in game chat or discord to other gamers around the world. Lots of input, lots of output, lots of interaction, with a lot more "acquiring language" than "learning language" specifically.
Latvian does not have many resources but the game changer was Latvian grammar book for English speakers. Blew my mind when i learned about declensions and understanding how to read
so, while it definitly isn't as good as having a real person interact with you, I have found that for me, making sentantes for myself, removes the anxity and lets me go "Wait a mintet... I don't know how to say that." this can only get you so far, but, you can become understandable. also, translating things, a lot of my langue leaning happened because I saw something in my target langue and thought it was wrong so I tried to figure not why it was wrong, or if it was right. now, translating should not be you only way of learning, it's a whole diffrent skill and is slower than just intuitvely knowing what it means, but, translating can be another way of geting that output.
Language output is how I learnt all of my languages. Consuming content is important too but I wouldn't be nearly as fluent if I didn't use what i studied. You don't even need anyone to speak to if you're feeling uncomfortable in the very beginning, I always suggest talking to yourself first to get used to the feeling. Also output in form of writing is what helped me the most when it came to grammar. I'd create fictional stories or just write a journal if I didn't have enough inspiration for the former. I'm currently a first year linguistic student majoring in Japanese as my fourth language. It's been awhile since I started learning a new language from scratch and I totally forgot how hard is it to actually recall what I studied. Failed an exam three times despite understanding every single word and kanji on the paper haha. Translation is just that hard for me I guess.
I may have made a slight "mistake" (it will become less of a mistake in time) buying a few books in Spanish as I realize that they are quite above my Spanish level atm, but they are at least a good way for me to practice pronunciation and, in general, Spanish reading ability, even if I can't understand all of Don Quixote, Catching Fire, or 100 Years of Solitude all in Spanish
Oh no wonder im finding Rosetta Stone to be rather challenging, my brain immediately wants to learn vocabulary then some context so I can construct sentences. It relies way too heavy on input theory without giving you a solid understanding of the language. Yeah its useful for travel but when I visit Japan i want to make it so i dont have to keep looking at my list to construct sentences.
For the criticisms: 1) This one is a pretty weak argument against the input theory. Even if he used words other than acquisition and learning, that doesn't detract from his main point. And why do you need evidence to form a "distinction between the words"? He's communicating two separate ways to interact with the language, so he's using two separate terms. 2) nobody has ever said grammar wasn't necessary for speaking the language. This is a total straw man argument. What input theorists say is you don't need to "study" grammar, which is totally different. You can learn grammar in Spanish the same way you learned it in English: input. 3) I'm aware of gaps in my knowledge while reading or listening, too. Speaking isn't special in this. Plenty of people will do hundreds or thousands of hours of just input before saying a single word. And they learn speaking VERY quickly once their hearing is fluent. In fact, if you learn speaking too soon, you'll learn bad habits that will take like ten times as long to unlearn. Speaking does not teach you anything about the language, only input does. all speaking does is train your muscle memory and only takes you a few weeks if you learn it towards the end.
I love your videos! Could you possibly do one on how you are pursuing speech pathology after earning a linguistics degree? im super interested in following that path and would love to know more about it:))
Finally someone using scientific data to prove the value of output, to the dismay of input-only Talibans like Krashen and Kauffman. As much as input makes up for the bulk of my learning, active learning like output or just traditional studying is fundamental to better your skills.
I think both with academics and youtubers there is a tendency to go to extremes in order to make a name for oneself. It's much more effecient to learn about the grammar of a language, in your own language. Not necessarily doing exercises, but getting the basic idea of how nouns, verbs etc behave. CI: la cara la mano el ojo, makes it seem that it's all just random. Learn the a ending, o ending, and the exception. Done. Cast an eye over a list of the most common words in daily life, and any specific to your interests. All of this can be done in a week. Then start listening to native content, with and then without subtitles. Audio visual is best. At some point start speaking with a tutor. Choose topics to listen to and then to talk about. Rinse and repeat.
i'm a part of a conlang project called Viossa where, pretty much, six or so people gathered in 2014 and spoke different languages until a pidgin formed. it's still going today, i joined mid-2023. but it can only be learned through immersion and translation is not allowed. it's wild how quickly you can start speaking it.
I learned 3 languages by finding friends who speak it and studying words on google translate and watching videos in targeted languages with that targeted languages subtitles ,and writing
Quite informative, and I thank you, but please done be afraid of a pause now and then. It would make it easier to digest what was just said before the next idea is being presented.
my current strat for learning japasnese is ep of one piece ten new word from the kaishi 1.5k deck twentie kana once I feel like I am good enueth at kana I will try formal grammar
The output hypothesis does make sense/sound right when I think about how I increased my French. But that filter that indicates that you don't know the grammar or are using it incorrectly may not work without some feedback. I do think combining all 3 to the best of your ability will greatly improve /speed up the process. Input does and has helped a lot in my Japanese learning journey, without any input I probably wouldn't have learned what I have, and possibly would never have even attempted to learn a new language. Anyways just some thoughts to boost the algo 😂😅
I think the input theory example works for languages that has similar sentence structures as your native one but how would it work with one that doesnt? subject verb object, subject object verb
On the note of embarassed to do the speaking part of a learned language, thats effectively my lived experience. i did like 6 years of school spanish, dated then married a fluently english-spanish bilingual argentine for a total of 15 years so far, all the while spending a lot of time with her and her family and visiting argentina. All this immersion and then im only really able to understand the language at conversational speed, but cannot still speak it worth shit cause im still so embarassed/aware of my errors. 😢
Which languages are you contemplating between? Personally my choice goes like this: desire>usefulness>ease of the language (This explains why I ended up choosing Japanese before Spanish, Italian or Portuguese 😂😅)
Funnily enough, you probably shouldn't tell anyone around you are learning a language, as studies show that commitment to a goal generally *decreases* in people who have made it public!
Yo man i know this isn't related to this video but i've heard that "rise up lights" sounds like "razor blades" in an Australian accent I was wondering why this happens and if their are any other examples of this
Honestly I think a lot of this debate is so silly and people try to isolate theories as if you can't mix and match. Like for example I'm in a Spanish 201 class as a refresher as I took over half a decade of Spanish in an immersion program, and it's so obvious that at this level, we should not be focusing on interaction and output, almost everyone in the class clearly does not have the vocabulary for it and we're going super in depth on specific grammar structures which means we'll probably produce things correctly but only if we have the vocabulary which we almost never do. I also think the example of "What time is it?" as supporting evidence isn't great, as a learner who knows all the words and either understands the meaning, or asks/looks it up, will then fully understand how it would apply to other sentences like "what day is it?". I'm still a beginner in Japanese yet I've had numerous experiences like I just described, input isn't about learning phrases, that would only apply to someone learning through putting sentences in Google translate. Also, to act as if a good input learner refuses to prime themselves with grammar explanations etc is silly, no one is claiming that you should never do that. I think at a higher level, outputting becomes much more helpful because at that point I do 100% agree with the idea of having that monitor to tell you where your gaps are in your knowledge, but when you're not well into your language learning adventure, you have gaping holes everywhere, why would I want to try to patch up any specific hole? IN MY OPINION it's much better to just build up a strong foundation rather than trying to make every little bit perfect before moving in TL;DR different theories work better at different levels, and claiming one cannot borrow any part of another theory is silly
Author at the beginning: I can't stand this lying in advertising any more, I'm a linguist and I know exactly what doesn't work and what does. Author at the end: There are 100500 theories and hypotheses and it's still unknown what works. You'll figure it out yourself. xD
What i did to learn english and french was to learn words and then consume lots of media in the language eventually you start "figuring out" how it works
Hi, linguistics major here. My undergrad butt absolutely hates the hate orthography seems to get in linguistics. Its like, the entire field is embarassed about the trash that we call the IPA, so we're not allowed to deal with any alphabet that isnt an absolute eyesore. At DLI and in every language Ive ever successfully learned, the study of a well fitting native orthography was at the center of why my pronunciation was anywhere close to good. I have this video saved for later, bc youre my favorite otter, but immediately discounting reading really made me sad.
Find videos that use images in conjunction, that show and tell what they're doing, what things are, ect. Similar to the shows we'd watch when we were pre-school and kindergarten aged
comprehensive input is a bit overrated. you can and should look up words if you don't know them. it's when you see them 5th or 20th time that you gradually develop natural understanding for them. a lot of people like to do i+1 examples with like "das ist meine hand (shows hand)" but that falls apart for adjectives and fancy verbs. really just checking meaning (or even better, definition) of a word is the same thing as the hand example.
An extremely simple video with visual support. For example, imagine you're seeing someone coloring and narrating themselves in your TL, and they hold up a marker and say "this is red", draw a square and say "this is a square. This is a red square" and just make a whole video out of drawing colored shapes while narrating like that. Even if you know absolutely nothing of the language before watching, by the end you'll probably be able to name several shapes and colors, and know the sentence structure "this is..."
Learn the list of most common words, that's enough to start naturally acquire language though exposure. That's good enough for most people, since everyone here just wants to be able to watch anime.
My best tip is JUST LEARN THE LANGUAGE AND STOP WORRYING SO MUCH ABOUT METHODS, if you just keep focusing on how to learn then you're not gonna make any progress
As an autistic and introverted person who rarely communicates with anyone, I find learning languages almost impossible. It's a miracle I've learned English without ever visiting an English-speaking country. I live in Germany now and even after a few years here, I can't learn their language. It's way too difficult and unintuitive, you must know the rules and you must communicate a lot. I feel hopeless.
I've experienced something similar. I wonder if autism can stunt language immersion benefits in a given foreign country. I moved to a foreign country, and struggled to learn the language. The rapid transition between speaking in the target language and then people switching to English to speak to me was really difficult. Connecting with people was just as difficult as it is in my native country, potentially reducing opportunities for practicing with native speakers. For all of that, I've found it fun to get as good as I can immersing at home and in online chatrooms. Then suddenly moving to the country is very helpful. (I haven't done this enough with controlled factors to know if this is a correct correlation though.) Learning languages consumes all my time, but I think most advice online is really hard to apply affectively to me. So I've had to develop my own rules based on my personal strengths and weaknesses.
@wolfxlover It has been shown that autism has a big correlation with language delay in children. How this may affect second language acquisition, I don't really know
Learning already doesn't work fore normative people, so it makes sense. Just listen to German (on YT) and you'll naturally start picking up words and most importantly your subconscious will start making sense of the language patterns (grammar)
Do you like writing down your thougths then you could write in German, or if you do not have any original thoughts to write down translate texts to German or from German. To do this you need to start simple, by forming sentences and learning grammar like the V2 rule and inflections, you will constantly look up words you do not understand in a dictionary then add them to a list and rote memorize them. I used quizlet to do this. After some time rote memorizing words and learning kasus and inflections as well as grammar your level should rise and you can tackle more difficult translation tasks. Another tip is that you can watch dubbed or subbed content in German that was not originally produced in that language. Netflix allows this if the settings are adjusted for instance.
Personalized 1-on-1 language lessons with native teachers on italki Buy $10 get $5 for free for your first lesson using my code THELINGOTTER.
Web: go.italki.com/thelingottersep
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Corrections: I say "theory" in this video by mistake, but these are actually just hypotheses!
Also, if you're interested in taking lessons with the tutor in this video, check Juri sensei out at this link! www.italki.com/en/teacher/8867486
The only Norwegian phrase i know is asking if you speak English
'snakker du engelsk?'
Ja, jeg snakker Engelsk! Og norsk selvfølgelig! Er jo fra Norge
(Yes i know you will need google translate for this)
Svaret er vel som oftest ja
@@Ravn7 Sant. Halve Verden kan jo engelsk.
I think its the same thing for me for dutch and español
Thats all duo has taught me
Spreek je en Engels and tu habla ingles
Idk if dutch was correct lol
hsia gěwaī ngoo
THE OTTER IS SO PRECIOUS
he looks so huggable 😭
tbh im only here cuz the cute otter guy 😭
@@MrSoprry Same. Same. I love language learning, but it's the otter that makes me come back every video. 😅
ALL HAIL TO THE OTTER
I like the little fish on its head.
Reading a book you know well is amazing for comprehensible input. It basically makes it so you can read i+2 or 3 with just as much ease as i+1, because you already know the context of the story and you can verify if you read something correctly by simply using your own knowledge of the book.
I did this when learning Latin; after reading Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata to get a good foundation in the language's grammar, I started reading the Hobbit in Latin which after like 3 or 4 chapters I just didn't need to consult a dictionary for anymore. Sadly Latin word order is so flexible that when translating English into it you can basically keep the English word order in tact, which didn't prepare me for actual Latin literature, but the vocabulary boost that reading that book gave me really skyrocketed by Latin capabilities so much that it didn't even really matter.
Another great thing about the Hobbit specifically is that Tolkien wrote it for his kids, and I noticed while reading that he actually introduces words in a mario level design-esque way; where he first introduces a word that's a bit more difficult than the rest on the page with lots of context so you can fill in the meaning with context, and then later because you already know the word, he uses it normally without any context. So it's like he wrote it with i+1 specifically in mind
That is really good advice
Alright you convinced me, I'll see if I can find The Hobbit in my target language lol
This. I always recommend learners to re-watch/re-listen/re-read content that they’ve consumed before. It really works wonders, and I was able to finish JoJo part 1 in nearly the same time as I did in English, and I gradually acquired words as I watched.
Yesss
I feel like books like The Hobbit and The Little Prince (I recently finished reading it japanese) are fantastic for that, as they're pretty well written and potentially interesting to re-read even for an adolescent / adult learner, and at the same time don't provide excessively hard vocabulary and grammar
This is great advice! I really liked going to youtube and find songs that I know really well and add "letras" so that I would get the english song with a spanish translation in real time. I realize it probably doesn't work for every language, but it is a great strategy for comprehensible input.
I’m taking ASL right now and the things explained at 8:36 are already kind of built into learning the language. Because my teacher is deaf, there is at all times a no voice policy. If you can’t express something in ASL, you can use a whiteboard to write down what you want to say, but if you say anything at all it’s deemed disrespectful. This method is absolutely possible, you just have to make important distinctions and guidelines.
i took asl and my teacher was hh and she didnt want us to talk but we could write or fs words we didnt know
As a fellow scarf-wearing otter who adores languages and linguistics, I've been loving what you make! Thanks for all the interesting, well-presented content
This video is great! A lot of videos say that you "only need input". While I agree that input is probably one of the most crucial parts, I always felt like traditional learning 1 or 2 times a week at least helps out a lot.
In the intermediate stages, you def do not need traditional learning as much, as you would be solely doing input and possibly some output too. Like with grammar for example, I personally look most of them up in the target language.
As this video says, only comprehensible input is not optimal, but it definitely is all you need to learn a language
I started "acquiring" greek a year ago. I never learned a grammatical rule or conjugation table. I now had the chance to go to Greece 2 months back and it was magical. Never before have I spoken with another person but suddenly I was able to understand ~60% of what I've heard. I've had a 10 min conversation about the son of this woman who is a musician, studied in Australia and now tours Greece as a successful Lyra player. It definitely was not a "beginner conversation".
I now am certain that within the next year I will reach a point at which I can call myself a greek - speaker.
I have basically only read using lingq. At the moment I am reading Harry potter in greek and am enjoying it because of the story. A year back I knew basically nothing.
I mean....most of european languages are easy to learn becz of their obvious (mostly-phonetic) orthography.
But chinese and japanese? Nah...fcking hell.
another reasons why European better@@mingthan7028
The language learning to mongolian farmhand pipeline is real.
Speaking with natives is a surprisingly great way to boost your language fluency. I remember speaking with Spanish natives for the first time & I didn’t get to speak much due to anxiety. But after a while(in like a week or so), I can now engage in conversation & most importantly voice my confusion & learn from them themselves.
It’s critical cuz your brain will notice you don’t use your input irl, & thus wouldn’t care much to remember it if it can. Memory recall is a separate skill from simply memorizing.
I recommend putting pressure on yourself(safely). What I did was put my ego on the line by talking to some Spanish girls. It was embarrassingly hilarious & fun.
Note: I was intermediate when I started talking to natives but I wish I started earlier!
You outputted the the appropriate level, I don’t think you would have pulled it off as well if you spoke when you were a beginner.
Easy, switch your system language/game to whatever language you want to learn. Hearing my character talk with subtitles on while doing stuff in context-sensitive situations skyrocketed my comprehension. I played games like Overwatch (lots of voicelines from many different characters in specific situations) and Dead by Daylight (hundreds of perks with descriptions of what they do). Those 2 games alone made me fluent in Spanish over several months just by playing and occasionally looking up a word.
I do that from time to time
Lingotter has such a cute voice x3
facts 😭
You know that's a human being right?
@@VintageVesper You may be the first person to have figured that out.
@@vrallabut hes right! He is a human and nobody likes humans
As someone who fucked around and very inefficiently learned 4 languages, it's kinda nice to see certain concepts I've come to understand intuitively being formalized. Thanks for all of your hard work providing such high quality content for free.
In my experience, these are all more "yes, and..." than "no, but...". I think Stephen Krashen is correct in that input is the *necessary and sufficient* component of the language acquisition process, as even the output theory relies on eventual input. You can't learn something without observation of some kind. But if you only rely on input, it's going to be a very slow process.
Active learning (mainly of grammar), output, and interaction are all massive speed multipliers for the process of language acquisition, even though the core of the process is input.
What I tend to do is get a rough overview of basic grammar, then a lot of bilingual input where I try to decide and reword the translations, then back to more advanced grammar, then input again and some interaction. Eventually, I'm just using the language regularly and I've internalized it to the point of automaticity.
Never clicked on a notification that fast
Your voice is so comforting
I learned my 4th language through input ALONE. i didnt even know that i knew the language until way after learning it. So i know which method works for me now. I wanna learn a lot of languages
Love your work man! Gave me the motivation to take Spanish II. I hated taking Spanish I because I didn't understand the language . With your videos, I can start to understand why a language is a language and how it works.
the otter is way too cute man 😭😭
Never thought I’d have an otter and a penguin as language gurus lmao, sounds like an anime plot 😂
(For context, the penguin is another UA-cam channel called Trenton, he recently ‘popped off’ with a video on combining immersion learning with supplementary study using a specific set of tools, including Anki- for learning Japanese. The video was presented really well and has been a great help, as have all his videos since then (the Anki deep dive video is invaluable, 100/10 worth watching if new to Anki)
It would take a huge volume of reading material to learn a language's grammar by context alone. Just the different combinations of expressions for a particular subject such as asking the time would require reading 50 books or more.
• What time is it?
• Do you have the time?
• What time do we have to be there
• What time do you have?
•What time does it start?
• Do you have the starting time?
• Is that the right time?
• Time to go or we'll be late.
I could think of another 50 examples. In another language they might require different conjugations, auxiliaries or some other grammatical device to make a different sentence. Not a fan of reading alone with translation.
Learn the Grammar and make it interesting. When you build a house you need the materials (vocabulary) and the schematics or architectural plan(grammar) of the house. With just the building materials you can have a go at building the house but it will take longer and probably collapse.
Great video! The best way for me was speaking Spanish to my students and Tagalog with my family. If I mess up, I don't really get embarrassed, and my students appreciate the fact that I'm learning their native language. Also, I concentrate only on speaking and listening. I feel it is faster for me, and it motivates me to continue. I now read here and there, though.
I bought the Korean translation of a manga to learn and so far it's been really useful. I can't read full books yet but the everyday expressions as well as all the pictures for context and - importantly - a story that makes me come back are really helpful :)
Been attempting to learn Japanese as of recently so this video was quite helpful. Thambs!
I think the different methods are good for different stages of the learning process. Understanding the basics through traditional instruction is good for the early stages because it can serve as a springboard into input. Input is good starting at the advanced beginner stage, and on through the rest of the stages, and it's necessary to build a robust internal model of the language via input so that when you're outputting, you can "feel" when something doesn't sound quite right. Writing-based output becomes useful at the high-intermediate and low-advanced stage, for the reasons you mentioned that it allows you to take your time and double check your grammar, and it's easier for a native to correct. Lastly, speaking directly with a native speaker is highly useful at the low-advanced to advanced stages, because by that time you have a well-tuned internal model of the sounds and grammar of the language, you've started to formulate thoughts through writing, and you're ready to start to speak and build a sense of ease and automaticity in your output.
I don't think any of the approaches necessarily CAN'T be done at different points, but that there are times where they are more effective and you'll get more bang for your buck. Trying to speak before you've really spent hours and hours listening isn't going to really do much for you, and traditional study of grammar isn't as useful for helping you getting comfortable speaking.
Just my $0.02 after having learned french and now learning Gaelic.
I'm an ESL. I can write, read and listen very well (or at least decently), but I really struggle with speaking. I can say that all the time I spend on anglophone internet helped me except in that regard.
I agree with your conclusion. I think using all these techniques in combination is the way to go.
The best language instruction I have recieved was at a Basque euskaltegi, and it was basically a combination of all methods here. The instruction language is Spanish but we are expected to use Basque more and more as we progress, and to have the classroom as a place where people speak from day 1. However, there is also comprehensible output in the form of reading, videos, audios, and the teacher explaining students things. There is also grammar instruction involved. I was learning this for a year alongside Chinese, for which my approach was input-heavy, and I would say I have reached a similar level on both. I could not sustain an input-heavy approach for an European language other than English because I don't find content in said language that is engaging to my tastes. Nowadays I'm waiting to take new classes for the next level of Basque, and for Chinese I do textbook and pure reading every day I can. It honestly seems like a good amount of input (but perhaps not only input) and consistency is the way to truly acquire a language.
this video is so cute, but at the same time really useful!!!!!!! i love ur videos! I really thought that dobling was a word, bc English is my second language
do you think you’d ever do a video on sign languages? i’m learning american sign language, and i’d love a video about how sign languages develop, how they differ from spoken languages (besides the obvious of course), sign language slang, sign languages around the world, or anything else you’d want to talk about!!!!
This probably is wrong but to me the difference between acquiring and learning is short term versus long term memory. When it’s acquired it’s in my long term memory and I know it for good. Of course this happens when I’m not paying attention because you can’t control your long term memory the way you can your short term memory.
I used these methods to learn Japanese. I focused mostly on learning common phrases first (Thanks you, Nice to meet you, My name is ___, etc.) to get a feel for the language.
Then I spent a while hardcore studying words with lots of input (both speech and reading) and turning that input into i+1 Anki sentence cards.
For grammar, I read through a basic guide to understand the basics of how nouns and verbs worked as well as sentence structure. For everything else, I would just look up rules as I came across something new. AI was useful for that since it could both identify and explain the grammar in one step.
Once I was able to listen and read most materials without outside resources, I started really focusing on output. I say focusing, as I did do basic output practice while doing input to reinforce what I was learning, but it was only 10% of the time I spent learning Japanese each day early on. Eventually, I spent about 60% of my time on input and 40% on output.
After about 3 years in, I stopped "studying" Japanese and now I just use the language as a language for daily communication with Japanese people I've met and just watching anime or Japanese UA-camrs. I don't live in Japan so I'm probably not as fluent as people who do, but I can enjoy 95% of Japanese media just fine and have fluent conversations with real people which was my goal.
Learning my second language, I had a mixture of input and output. From my own experience, that was what was the most beneficial. I also had native speakers in my immediate family, so I could easily learn from them. I'm somewhere in B level nowadays, but when I used it more often I was B2, approaching C.
Good breakdown. And thank you for highlighting the cons of Krashen theory, I see so many UA-camrs parade it and its variations as the be all and end all of language learning, like "this is how your brain works", but it is some of its downsides that don't work for me. I've generally tried to start with grammar because I like to be able to play with the language to get a feel for how it works.
But also, input theory only works if you can find material in your target language that is i+1, it's funny you mention Mongolian because it is my target language (well once I am back onto it after I have progressed to where I want to be with Turkish). I've struggled to find comprehensive input for my language level. There was like 1 children's book that was super basic that I got through very quickly. But I know where I can find videos, TV, movies and books in Mongolian at least. It was sort of the same with Vietnamese but a little better because I think the books I could find were probably aimed at around B1 level (maybe even B2) and I found a book in a comic strip format that's probably for an A2 level, which I did end up using at least and I did pick up a book of folk stories when I was in Vietnam, but it's not enough comprehensive input to rely on the input method. I'd have to find a teacher who can teach in that method, but I found that guy I met on iTalki generally really helpful and stuck with him and he mixed using a textbook and the output method.
Fortunately for Turkish, Olly Richards has a Storylearning course and Beelingua supports it.
But the interaction method sounds like it has some weight, I just need to get over that feeling that I might be bothering people. With that said, with the few broken Mongolian interactions I've had over the internet, it has been helpful, because it's text-based and I'm thinking about how I'm constructing my sentences and because of my low level I need to look stuff up. And I know a few speakers so I might have to try to embrace it more once I get back onto it. And with Turkish, I am learning alongside a friend whose neighbour is Turkish, so I already have people I can interact with, but I am focusing on Storylearning first, because it has a good mix of input, output and grammar.
I love your channel!! Keep up the great work 💪🏼
I've been learning Spanish for almost a year now (traveling through Latin America for most of it) and this video is kinda like critiquing my learning style hahaha, honestly I'd say I've been utilizing all 3 theories (having only heard of input theory before) just off my own intuition and curiosity and I've achieved an impressive level of Spanish according to native speakers (I haven't taken an official test but I feel like I'm probably around b2-c1 although my Mexican friend says she thinks I'm probably around c1-c2)
It reassuring to hear that my plan is confirmed by someone else. I'm currently working through the basics with Genki 1, maybe 2 and will later do a 2k vocab Anki deck. Afterwards just native japanese input and sentence mining.
Please please please check out Cure Dolly before you do anything else with Genki. She explains some foundational things that Genki never seems to think you're smart enough to understand, and it honestly makes the language actually make sense.
I hate Genki, but I'm not saying you should throw it out, just get that external understanding and apply it to their lessons.
I often use the output and input theory without knowing when talking to my family in spanish.
I would think of how to say my idea and then say it. But when i'm stuck i would ask what a certain word is or how to convey it. Then resume.
I didn't "get" spanish when i was young, so when i learnt proper grammer in Highschool, i began practicing more at home.
Combining input and output with some proper learning for conjegations.
Although i'm stuck around an elementary level😅.
I think Krashen is right in every way, except for the idea that input alone is sufficient. It may be sufficient for a child learning their native language, but for an adult L2 learner, the amount of input you would need to truly acquire your language is massive. The downside of being an adult is your brain is no longer plastic and you no longer have parents to give you comprehensible input for 8 hours a day, every day, for years. The upside is that your adult brain is capable of studying the grammar, shortcutting and accelerating some of the acquisition process.
The output part is also indispensable for identifying the gaps in your abilities. When I'm listening to a podcast, I'm not always thinking about whether they used the right form of a verb, I just hear that verb and understand the meaning from context. It's only when I go to use that verb myself that I have to both remember it and know how to use the right form of it.
In German class, we constantly translated from German to Norwegian and vice versa, aswell as getting writing tasks in to be answered in German. Also I took the class with two friends so it was fun and we constantly talked, and I corrected them, it also helped that I am a grammar nerd. Therefore I actually got grade 5 in that class.
In my experience learning croatian, I was asked for a lot of output, writing essays, etc.
My problem was that I tried to bring foreign words or structure to my croatian, where they have another more "natural" way of saying.
So when I was speaking with people, they always said I was speaking weird, using strange words, etc.
I realized I have to shut up and listen more, for me input is way more important than output.
5:30 as an argentinian, i know that the red and blue rectangles mean the same thing, just that they use diferent dialects. argentines, uruguayans, paraguayans, and central americans ALL use the words in the blue rectangle which mean the same as the red words, but stress the second vocals as showed with the stress mark (`)
Personally, I recommend doing some study in the beginning so you can learn the basics, then find some comprehensible input on YT. Or do study and comprehensible input at the same time, any works.
I did the first variation for Japanese, worked really well but it may be a bit slower. I’m using the second variation of the method for my 7 Day French challenge, and I’ve achieved good results in only 3 days into the challenge. I’m definitely not good at French but the amount I’ve learned so far has been surprising.
Very cool thanks
Here before this blows up. You're great man.
I’ve become pretty much fluent in English, I speak French around B2 level, and I’ve got my B1 certificate in German. I also speak pretty fluent toki pona, if that counts. I am currently trying to deepen my knowledge of these languages and also learn Modern Greek, Japanese, and Mongolian. After becoming fluent in some of these, I want to learn Sanskrit close to native level and a Celtic language or an endangered language, such as Okinawan.
So here’s my experience. I need grammar. I hate having to express myself without knowing the least bit of theory on how it works. There are some languages that work slightly without much grammar, like French, but some languages require you to just re-learn how to think before speaking, like Japanese and Mongolian. Bht I’ve got pretty good at it. So good, that I find myself hiding behind grammar lessons in order to skip the word learning. And this is my main problem right now. I have the structure, but I have no idea how to name things. I’m also pretty tome deaf. I watch German series in order to improve my understanding of the language, to get used to the sounds, and to get the right phrasings and intonations. Most problematic are my speaking skills. I can write full essays in French, but when I open my mouth, I suddenly sound retarded. I have no one to speak to. Next year, I’m going into college. I want to study English, German, and French. Maybe the academic environment will be of some help. And I want to take Mongolian online classes. Currently, Nomiin Ger are the only ones that offer such services, but I’m happy with it. My best friend is trying to get in the same college and wants to study Japanese. You bet we will be trying to have conversations in Japanese and I will use her books.
Language learning is not that easy (unless it’s toki pona). The secret is to not give up. And don’t be discouraged by all those people on UA-cam who have learned eight languages in two years! One day, maybe you will be speaking better than some natives (it’s a common fact that some English learners acquire better grammar and more advanced vocabulary than some natives).
Great Video!
I like the Cambly platform. Teacher Dakota P. is my favorite for English :)
Obviously this is pretty anecdotal but in my high school we had an optional english learning course done by a native english speaker who also taught us some science stuff in english (it was a STEM focused high school) and had some lessons made to prepare us for a fancy english proficiency test handled by cambridge university.
This meant we had our regular english teacher handling the regular "learning english" stuff like grammar, plus some "acquiring english" in the form of studying english literature. We then had this other native english speaker who handled the "interaction" side of it and mostly spoke to us in english and vice versa (though he would often randomly switch to a single italian word in the sentence) while also again handling some "learning" by preparing us for the test and also the "acquiring" by teaching us unrelated topics like science in english.
Almost all of the class signed up for that cambridge exam. It had a target of C1, which in cambridge's classification means good enough for clear communication in professional settings (it goes A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2, with A1 being a child who just learned how to ask to go to the bathroom and C2 being native level). Only one girl failed, everyone else passed the C1 test and three people in the class (myself included) got a score high enough that it actually counted as C2 instead.
I'd say this is a pretty decent anecdote to go along with the idea that mixing together these various styles is probably the best approach, but there is also an extra detail. The three of us who passed with the highest scores are some of the nerdiest guys in the class. We are the ones who spend their free time watching random youtube videos in english rather than tv series in italian on netflix. We are the ones playing video games often in english since italian isn't as common of a language option as other european languages, and also talking in game chat or discord to other gamers around the world. Lots of input, lots of output, lots of interaction, with a lot more "acquiring language" than "learning language" specifically.
Latvian does not have many resources but the game changer was Latvian grammar book for English speakers. Blew my mind when i learned about declensions and understanding how to read
My first language is Spanish and English just suddenly spawned in my head one day
"how did you learn it?"
"I slept, I guess"
"what?"
Same
I have nearly learnt Italian🇮🇹, and I am great in all four inputs.
so, while it definitly isn't as good as having a real person interact with you, I have found that for me, making sentantes for myself, removes the anxity and lets me go "Wait a mintet... I don't know how to say that." this can only get you so far, but, you can become understandable. also, translating things, a lot of my langue leaning happened because I saw something in my target langue and thought it was wrong so I tried to figure not why it was wrong, or if it was right. now, translating should not be you only way of learning, it's a whole diffrent skill and is slower than just intuitvely knowing what it means, but, translating can be another way of geting that output.
Language output is how I learnt all of my languages. Consuming content is important too but I wouldn't be nearly as fluent if I didn't use what i studied. You don't even need anyone to speak to if you're feeling uncomfortable in the very beginning, I always suggest talking to yourself first to get used to the feeling. Also output in form of writing is what helped me the most when it came to grammar. I'd create fictional stories or just write a journal if I didn't have enough inspiration for the former. I'm currently a first year linguistic student majoring in Japanese as my fourth language. It's been awhile since I started learning a new language from scratch and I totally forgot how hard is it to actually recall what I studied. Failed an exam three times despite understanding every single word and kanji on the paper haha. Translation is just that hard for me I guess.
I may have made a slight "mistake" (it will become less of a mistake in time) buying a few books in Spanish as I realize that they are quite above my Spanish level atm, but they are at least a good way for me to practice pronunciation and, in general, Spanish reading ability, even if I can't understand all of Don Quixote, Catching Fire, or 100 Years of Solitude all in Spanish
I got overexcited and ordered like 10 books for grade 1 Japanese kids awhile back. I can't read them yet, but someday I will!
Im such a simp for you otter language person,i love your vids
Oh no wonder im finding Rosetta Stone to be rather challenging, my brain immediately wants to learn vocabulary then some context so I can construct sentences. It relies way too heavy on input theory without giving you a solid understanding of the language. Yeah its useful for travel but when I visit Japan i want to make it so i dont have to keep looking at my list to construct sentences.
Can you talk about TPRS
VRchat is the goat for language learning
For the criticisms:
1) This one is a pretty weak argument against the input theory. Even if he used words other than acquisition and learning, that doesn't detract from his main point. And why do you need evidence to form a "distinction between the words"? He's communicating two separate ways to interact with the language, so he's using two separate terms.
2) nobody has ever said grammar wasn't necessary for speaking the language. This is a total straw man argument. What input theorists say is you don't need to "study" grammar, which is totally different. You can learn grammar in Spanish the same way you learned it in English: input.
3) I'm aware of gaps in my knowledge while reading or listening, too. Speaking isn't special in this.
Plenty of people will do hundreds or thousands of hours of just input before saying a single word. And they learn speaking VERY quickly once their hearing is fluent.
In fact, if you learn speaking too soon, you'll learn bad habits that will take like ten times as long to unlearn.
Speaking does not teach you anything about the language, only input does. all speaking does is train your muscle memory and only takes you a few weeks if you learn it towards the end.
I love your videos! Could you possibly do one on how you are pursuing speech pathology after earning a linguistics degree? im super interested in following that path and would love to know more about it:))
Finally someone using scientific data to prove the value of output, to the dismay of input-only Talibans like Krashen and Kauffman. As much as input makes up for the bulk of my learning, active learning like output or just traditional studying is fundamental to better your skills.
can you talk about wittgenstein
I'm going to start learning Dutch next, wish me luck 😊😊😊
i love linguistics way too much
I think both with academics and youtubers there is a tendency to go to extremes in order to make a name for oneself.
It's much more effecient to learn about the grammar of a language, in your own language. Not necessarily doing exercises, but getting the basic idea of how nouns, verbs etc behave.
CI: la cara la mano el ojo, makes it seem that it's all just random. Learn the a ending, o ending, and the exception. Done.
Cast an eye over a list of the most common words in daily life, and any specific to your interests. All of this can be done in a week.
Then start listening to native content, with and then without subtitles. Audio visual is best. At some point start speaking with a tutor.
Choose topics to listen to and then to talk about. Rinse and repeat.
i'm a part of a conlang project called Viossa where, pretty much, six or so people gathered in 2014 and spoke different languages until a pidgin formed. it's still going today, i joined mid-2023. but it can only be learned through immersion and translation is not allowed. it's wild how quickly you can start speaking it.
I learned 3 languages by finding friends who speak it and studying words on google translate and watching videos in targeted languages with that targeted languages subtitles ,and writing
Quite informative, and I thank you, but please done be afraid of a pause now and then. It would make it easier to digest what was just said before the next idea is being presented.
my current strat for learning japasnese is
ep of one piece
ten new word from the kaishi 1.5k deck
twentie kana
once I feel like I am good enueth at kana I will try formal grammar
The output hypothesis does make sense/sound right when I think about how I increased my French.
But that filter that indicates that you don't know the grammar or are using it incorrectly may not work without some feedback.
I do think combining all 3 to the best of your ability will greatly improve /speed up the process.
Input does and has helped a lot in my Japanese learning journey, without any input I probably wouldn't have learned what I have, and possibly would never have even attempted to learn a new language.
Anyways just some thoughts to boost the algo 😂😅
I think the input theory example works for languages that has similar sentence structures as your native one but how would it work with one that doesnt? subject verb object, subject object verb
On the note of embarassed to do the speaking part of a learned language, thats effectively my lived experience. i did like 6 years of school spanish, dated then married a fluently english-spanish bilingual argentine for a total of 15 years so far, all the while spending a lot of time with her and her family and visiting argentina. All this immersion and then im only really able to understand the language at conversational speed, but cannot still speak it worth shit cause im still so embarassed/aware of my errors. 😢
Sailing and camping with a group of Vikings is the best way to learn Swedish.
the hardest part for the whole thing is picking a language ive been deciding for 2 months 😭
Which languages are you contemplating between?
Personally my choice goes like this: desire>usefulness>ease of the language (This explains why I ended up choosing Japanese before Spanish, Italian or Portuguese 😂😅)
Funnily enough, you probably shouldn't tell anyone around you are learning a language, as studies show that commitment to a goal generally *decreases* in people who have made it public!
Yo man i know this isn't related to this video but i've heard that "rise up lights" sounds like "razor blades" in an Australian accent I was wondering why this happens and if their are any other examples of this
Out of curiosity, what languages do you have experience with? In other words, which ones have you studied?
My trick is Anki for learning vocab
Honestly I think a lot of this debate is so silly and people try to isolate theories as if you can't mix and match. Like for example I'm in a Spanish 201 class as a refresher as I took over half a decade of Spanish in an immersion program, and it's so obvious that at this level, we should not be focusing on interaction and output, almost everyone in the class clearly does not have the vocabulary for it and we're going super in depth on specific grammar structures which means we'll probably produce things correctly but only if we have the vocabulary which we almost never do. I also think the example of "What time is it?" as supporting evidence isn't great, as a learner who knows all the words and either understands the meaning, or asks/looks it up, will then fully understand how it would apply to other sentences like "what day is it?". I'm still a beginner in Japanese yet I've had numerous experiences like I just described, input isn't about learning phrases, that would only apply to someone learning through putting sentences in Google translate. Also, to act as if a good input learner refuses to prime themselves with grammar explanations etc is silly, no one is claiming that you should never do that. I think at a higher level, outputting becomes much more helpful because at that point I do 100% agree with the idea of having that monitor to tell you where your gaps are in your knowledge, but when you're not well into your language learning adventure, you have gaping holes everywhere, why would I want to try to patch up any specific hole? IN MY OPINION it's much better to just build up a strong foundation rather than trying to make every little bit perfect before moving in
TL;DR different theories work better at different levels, and claiming one cannot borrow any part of another theory is silly
Author at the beginning: I can't stand this lying in advertising any more, I'm a linguist and I know exactly what doesn't work and what does.
Author at the end: There are 100500 theories and hypotheses and it's still unknown what works. You'll figure it out yourself.
xD
i watch these videos to distract myself from actually learning languages
can you make a video to help me know the right way to use skibbity or however its spelled
Output: Start YAPPING
I'm learning English (A1)
someone wants to do a language exchange
I speak Spanish
I have no idea whether (A1) is high or low but I know iTalki is good for that, otherwise just look for English classes near you.
Me, a Latin student, looking for native speakers
What i did to learn english and french was to learn words and then consume lots of media in the language eventually you start "figuring out" how it works
Does Italki have Na'vi?
Hi, linguistics major here. My undergrad butt absolutely hates the hate orthography seems to get in linguistics. Its like, the entire field is embarassed about the trash that we call the IPA, so we're not allowed to deal with any alphabet that isnt an absolute eyesore.
At DLI and in every language Ive ever successfully learned, the study of a well fitting native orthography was at the center of why my pronunciation was anywhere close to good. I have this video saved for later, bc youre my favorite otter, but immediately discounting reading really made me sad.
You're my goat
What should I do if I know no words in a language? So no comprehensive input available is comprehensible?
Find videos that use images in conjunction, that show and tell what they're doing, what things are, ect.
Similar to the shows we'd watch when we were pre-school and kindergarten aged
comprehensive input is a bit overrated. you can and should look up words if you don't know them. it's when you see them 5th or 20th time that you gradually develop natural understanding for them.
a lot of people like to do i+1 examples with like "das ist meine hand (shows hand)" but that falls apart for adjectives and fancy verbs. really just checking meaning (or even better, definition) of a word is the same thing as the hand example.
An extremely simple video with visual support. For example, imagine you're seeing someone coloring and narrating themselves in your TL, and they hold up a marker and say "this is red", draw a square and say "this is a square. This is a red square" and just make a whole video out of drawing colored shapes while narrating like that. Even if you know absolutely nothing of the language before watching, by the end you'll probably be able to name several shapes and colors, and know the sentence structure "this is..."
Get a textbook and learn
Learn the list of most common words, that's enough to start naturally acquire language though exposure.
That's good enough for most people, since everyone here just wants to be able to watch anime.
My best tip is JUST LEARN THE LANGUAGE AND STOP WORRYING SO MUCH ABOUT METHODS, if you just keep focusing on how to learn then you're not gonna make any progress
My best tip is to use graded readers, seriously this resource is amazing.
thank you koishi komeiji
@@Reforming_LLWhere do you get them
random question but how many languages are you fluent in
How do we approach as a an intermediate heritage how has a good understanding but lacks the vocabulary
Inb4 dobble catches on. lol
Im an arab who is learning spanish on the side any tips?(yes i speak english fluently)
But what's the language is enlarged to exinct tho? Like Australian aborginal languages
I've literally never seen anyone claim to teach you a language in one month
As an autistic and introverted person who rarely communicates with anyone, I find learning languages almost impossible. It's a miracle I've learned English without ever visiting an English-speaking country. I live in Germany now and even after a few years here, I can't learn their language. It's way too difficult and unintuitive, you must know the rules and you must communicate a lot. I feel hopeless.
I've experienced something similar. I wonder if autism can stunt language immersion benefits in a given foreign country.
I moved to a foreign country, and struggled to learn the language. The rapid transition between speaking in the target language and then people switching to English to speak to me was really difficult.
Connecting with people was just as difficult as it is in my native country, potentially reducing opportunities for practicing with native speakers.
For all of that, I've found it fun to get as good as I can immersing at home and in online chatrooms. Then suddenly moving to the country is very helpful. (I haven't done this enough with controlled factors to know if this is a correct correlation though.)
Learning languages consumes all my time, but I think most advice online is really hard to apply affectively to me. So I've had to develop my own rules based on my personal strengths and weaknesses.
@wolfxlover It has been shown that autism has a big correlation with language delay in children. How this may affect second language acquisition, I don't really know
Learning already doesn't work fore normative people, so it makes sense. Just listen to German (on YT) and you'll naturally start picking up words and most importantly your subconscious will start making sense of the language patterns (grammar)
I must have the opposite autism because I get obsessed over a specific thing for several months and pick it up easier
Do you like writing down your thougths then you could write in German, or if you do not have any original thoughts to write down translate texts to German or from German. To do this you need to start simple, by forming sentences and learning grammar like the V2 rule and inflections, you will constantly look up words you do not understand in a dictionary then add them to a list and rote memorize them. I used quizlet to do this. After some time rote memorizing words and learning kasus and inflections as well as grammar your level should rise and you can tackle more difficult translation tasks. Another tip is that you can watch dubbed or subbed content in German that was not originally produced in that language. Netflix allows this if the settings are adjusted for instance.
Watched for otter, came back able to learn french much better.
J'peux parle français meilleur maintenant.