I thought we aren’t going to heaven after all but are going to be resurrected in our bodies when Jesus returns. He talks about “teaching the timeless truths” to our children but the real antidote would be to teach historical truths, otherwise it’s still Platonism. Jesus was the promised messiah who became flesh in space and time, not a moral teacher who preached timeless truths
@@Jay-qx5ps Both are possible, technically. Christ said to one of the thieves he was crucified with “Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43) but there is a final judgement where all of the dead are resurrected and either stay with Christ on earth for his 1000 year Reich, or are cast into the lake of fire.
@@bloodbased and after the 1000 years they then go to heaven? Reading the last chapter of revelation I get a different impression. Interesting choice to use the word Reich here btw
I am only 15 minutes in and just about want to jump for joy!! As a youth minister, I so hope this idea of kids/teen church on Sundays gets squashed... there is no biblical support for it and it's so damaging. My church runs early childhood ministry from crawler-6... but once a child is 7, essentially 2-3rd grade, they sit through the main service... and why wouldn't they be able to? They already have learned to sit in desks for hours at a time at school. Our Youth group is split and grades 5-8 meet on Tuesday evenings and Grades 9-12 meet on Fridays (my wife and I run both). This allows them to hear the main doctrinal teachings, learn to sit in service so it's not a surprise at graduation, and learn how to be a member of the church through serving in different help capacities along side the adults. At youth group, we have plenty of food and games, but we teach the students about biblical literacy, how to reach the lost, we challenge them with with Word...but we also teach prosperity (not millionaires) and morals in a balanced way that is tempered by the scriptural view of test and trials. Both of these things are found throughout scripture so you can't throw the baby out (gospel) with the bath water (tests, trials, prosperity, even personal help). It all matters.
This was really good! The balance of it all was absolutely beautiful. I love how y’all brought balance to not being so hell fire and brownstone that people feel condemned, but not being so much the other way that people don’t know the truth of the Bible!!!
I’ve attended mildly charismatic affiliated churches my whole life. No direct knock to those I still like them to a degree. But it burdens my heart to attend churches and watch them go from the truth to beach balls, and comfort, fun, worship “experiences”, all outreach no discipleship, every sermon talks highly of Christ but someone turns into a moral lesson about conquering the giant/fear/anxiety/money problem in your life and very very very rarely do we actually learn what the scriptures say. There are certainly verses shared but people walk out knowing nothing more about the sanctifying power of Christ. It’s so nuanced and clever that when describing it to someone it’s almost impossible to put into direct words because those I see as victims to this teaching simply say we’re still learning about Jesus. There’s nothing inherently wrong from a motivational Sunday session/gathering but the pure lack of reverence I see and have been a part of I feel God is really taking the scales off my eyes to this season.
I've heard my pastor say "You know, I really don't know why, or how to explain why Christians suffer". To me, that's a pretty evident check engine light, even if he's not even close to heretical. This is something I really need to talk to him about over some steak or something.
We suffer because we rely on a man, Jesus. That is why Jesus sends us to the Father, O.T. to receive the law and Jesus' way to walk as a child of God. We are children of God and should walk as Jesus did. Jesus didn't obey the laws of kings or priests, but He did obey the laws of a child. From The Father we learn who Jesus is. Psalms 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. Jesus is The Word, John 1:1-5 The Word God spoke: Exodus 20:1 (His Spirit) The Word God wrote: Deuteronomy 4:13(His Covenant) and The Word God made flesh John 1:14 (Jesus). He is our example of The Trinity. He is The Law that hung on the cross and The Law that is written in the heart. Psalms 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. The Father places us in His Son in Deut.6:8-9, and we begin to grow in Spirit as we do The Word. We bind Scriptures, we make us new heart, from the prophets, and we learn to stand strong in our Lord Jesus Christ. You will find Jesus leads us to The Father, The Father shows us Jesus, then they show us who we are. The only reason we find that there are bad teachers is that they will not grow. They give us the same stories over and over. They spend more time studying The Word than most of us because we work for our family etc.. So we pay the preachers to tell us what God wants from us. But Paul tells us best when He tells us to "keep" all that is good, be doers of The Word, and put on the full armour of God. It is those who DO The Word, that is given answers so many of us seek. We mostly have worked for what money can buy. It is time to work, study and do, for what money CAN NOT buy. Obey The Father, heed the advice of Paul and put on Jesus, The Ten Commandments.
Thanks Matt. This is very important nowadays, and can have an impact in this mellineal generation. Here in northern europe, there is more pervasive athiesm. The government are secular now and enforcing new rules that is discounting christian subject in schools. The people dont seem to react toward this new moral standard of diesm. On the contrary people seem to embrace this , and regard christianity as a cult . Therefore we must bold in spreading the gospel, and be like Paul, and not be ashame of the gospel,
This is great! As a chaplain at a juvenile residential treatment facility, I came across Christian Smith's research a while ago. I would recommend all church leaders read his book or watch his documentary.
I'll have to watch the whole podcast eventually, but I'm only about 15 minutes in. So far, I like a lot of what Chandler has to say about a "feel good" sort of faith. However, I also think it's important not to leave evidence behind because we want to hold to tradition. Coming out of a Holiness background, and working several years in behavioral health, I can certainly say the best results come when you combine faith with good therapeutic (not necessarily therapy) practices, like diet, routines, reducing stimuli, and of course community. They don't have to be from Christian tradition to work well. Mental illness is real, and so are "struggles," and the sooner the wider church understands the science, the better we can serve.
@@TheRemnantRadio I think what James means - at least how I understood his comment - is that in many Anglican circles, biblical truths have been compromised for the sake of inclusivity and an unwillingness to confront error. This is particularly evident over here in Australia, in which the majority of Anglican dioceses (save the conservative Sydney diocese - our last bastion of hope) are either liberal or unwilling to divide over essential issues. The predominantly Anglo culture of politeness, courtesy and 'English propriety' within Australian Anglicanism often begins with compassion before drifting into cowardice and compromise.
I really enjoyed this broadcast but I have to say It's always confusing to me when I hear Calvinists say they worry about false doctrine. The saved are going to be saved, the lost are going to be lost and even if the lost hear the Gospel they're unwilling and unable to respond anyway unless God makes them so...what's it matter? In fact, on their view, the devil is superfluous as well. What's the doing "blinding" people who can't see anyway? It just makes no sense. You are worried about false teachers doing what? Deceiving people who were already damned anyway and had no hope of salvation? Or not being able to deceive the elect who are going to be saved anyway?
Self, self, self ..... and more self! A travesty of the Christian faith. Upside down world - with an upside down Church. How much this must hurt the Lord!
You really should look closer into the history or American culture and what has influenced it from the 40's on up. This has a tremendous effect on how Christian approach is now in the Church in the culture.
Whilst "feel good" teaching could be entering self help new age stuff, God does want us to have good self image, self esteem, and emotionally healthy. I am proof of God's ability to heal and restore the soul.
Does God want us to have a good self image, self esteem, and emotional health? I am not necessarily disagreeing, but that definitely doesn't seem like a big emphasis in the Bible.
@@ethanweber7976 Once you look beyond the theory / theology of the Bible, you'll find verses that relate to a God that intimately cares about us as humans. And, once you encounter the Holy Spirit, you'll really know
I don't understand how anyone could give credence to someone who believes in a god that, from eternity, would damn most of humanity to eternal suffering for his glory.
Some very good stuff here - but towards the end of the discussion the focus of the discussion was left behind. MTD is not one theological tradition versuses another. MTD is a malaise that cuts across all evangelical traditions. Think of how church can be done today: you can pick music from elevation or hillsong or the gettys; you turn to a group like Focus on the Family or similar for family content; you maybe pick an apologist as your go to defender of the faith; for publicity and finances you turn to some outside group to provide expertise; and on we can go with this. The point is that much of church becomes a la carte, with an emphasis on what works and not what fits together. It is not about one theological tradition as being better than another, as much as we end up with pastaches. Paul had a central vision that enfused all that He did, as one example. He of course was neither Reform or Anglican or Charasmatic or whatever we now identify ourselves as. Theological traditions are not the issue, when we are talking of orthodox theological traditions, the root problem of MTD is a lack of a controlling theological vision (whatever the heritage is). A theological tradition that is real and vibrant, is not just addressing issues of yesterday. MTD will not be overcome if we do not embrace an all encompassing vision like those who went before us (be it Ambrose, the Venerable Bede, Bernard of Clairvaux, Menno Simons or John Wesley) that has in all ages driven the church forward.
I know its been a while since you left this comment but just wanted to say I agree completely. Many Christians say things like "theology/doctrine isn't important, relationship with God is". I sympathize with the sentiment but...that statement IS a doctrine! The thing is we all have a personal "theology." Its just the collection of things we believe about God and His Word. The problem is for most Christians (in America anyway) is that its hopelessly self contradictory and incomplete due to the a la carte approach, as you said, while a systematic approach that comes from thoughtful, Biblically based traditions are seen as bad because they are "religion, not relationship".
Not here to talk shit, and I genuinely want to understand. These guys are "by the book" literalists and are against those who see it as metaphor? Is that an accurate summary?
Only problem with this is that weve got a Calvinist Matt Chandler coming against another labeled doctrine. Calvinist doctrine is far worse than this deistic belief. Must we always label a trend or belief. I think we should get rid of Calvinism first and then conquer some of this other low hanging fruit. I've seen the destructive nature of Calvinism. Again....lets move that out and then start making disciples with the true gospel. The true gospel does contain some of those qualities of therapy and wholeness. You'll never get that with Calvinism. It's heresy and distorts the true gospel.
Then Martin Luther, Charles Hodges, BB Warfield, Francis Turretin, Jonathan Edwards, John Owen, Augustine, Charles Spurgeon, Gerhardus Vos, Herman Bavinck are all heretics? And this is just a tiny sampling of some of the greatest extra-biblical theologians in the history of the church. Although I disagree with my Armenianist brothers and sisters, I wouldn’t call them heretics. I came and from an Armenianist/charismatic background most of my Christian life and looking back on it, most of the accusations I heard (and agreed with) against Calvinism were strawman arguments. I believe most people who are opposed to it don’t really understand Calvinism. Calvin wasn’t a one trick pony, only concerned with election and predestination. In fact, it was only a small part of his overall theology. Take the time and read his institutes of the Christian religion and see how much you actually disagree with. If you really are a Christian, I think you’ll find you’ll be agreement with the vast majority of what Calvin has to say. By the way, Luther and Augustine both believed in election and predestination and I don’t see anybody calling them heretics.
It is time we learn who we are to depend on. To learn how to get our Lord Jesus Christ to help us win this war. We must 'do' The Word. Not just read, or just study, but apply the wisdom God teaches us. May we introduce Jesus to those who do not yet know Him? Put Him on and learn from Him. No religion knows all the Truth, but God does and needs you to know The Truth. Psalms 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. Jesus is The Word, John 1:1-5 The Word God spoke: Exodus 20:1 (His Spirit) The Word God wrote: Deuteronomy 4:13(His Covenant) and The Word God made flesh John 1:14 (Jesus). He is our example of The Trinity. He is The Law that hung on the cross and The Law that is written in the heart. Psalms 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. We do not work for our salvation, Jesus died and saved the world. But we can work for our protection from the plagues, those coming to steal, kill, and destroy, from deception etc.. There is nothing wrong with works for we are judged on our works. Faith without works is dead. Why would Jesus tell us to pray for workers, if no work is to be done? Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Come out of her (religion) and trust "in" Jesus. He will teach the children of God. May we all receive the wisdom of The Father in Deut. 6:8-9 and the advice of Paul and put on Jesus. Do all you do in Him. A free gift from God, gracefully accept Him. Don't just believe in our Lord Jesus Christ, serve Him. Our plea to all is to PUT ON LIFE. Let our faith work for us. Jesus, The Son is the seal of God, His Word, His Ten Commandments. He is your anointing, get in Christ. Remember, heart, mind and soul, not just the heart. Always use King James Version if possible. Not the N.K.J.V.. Stay away from any copyrighted Scriptures. We conquer our enemies, sin, and the world by coming together in our Lord Jesus Christ. Our peace is found "IN" Him. "It is finished."
Here are three words which you shouldn’t use to explain Christianity because people already have their own ideas about what they mean - and because they have no power to break through MTD - and they might even cause experienced Christians to have ideas that aren’t true - unless you first clearly redefine them: Forgiveness - most people understand forgiveness to be letting people off for what they have done wrong. That’s not what Christian forgiveness is. God NEVER - not when we were not Christians and not after we become Christians - tolerates our wrongdoing - he doesn’t let us off. Forgiveness is about God GIVING himself FOR us. His justice (which is a beautiful thing - imagine if God was not just) means that he must punish our sin. He punishes all our sin - even the sin after we become a Christian is punished. It’s all placed on Jesus. To suggest that God lets us off our sin is to say that he is tolerant. To suggest that God is tolerant is to destroy Christianity. Why? Because if God is tolerant he could just have announced that our sins were forgiven - Jesus would not have had to die on the cross. No cross no Christianity. To preach tolerance is to completely turn your back on Christianity. Grace - when the average Joe hears the word gracious they think of kindness - or even someone being accommodating. And when some of the world’s most senior teachers and theologians talk about grace they speak as if grace is God giving us things we don’t deserve such as power to be holy and forgiveness for all sin. But this is a less than helpful way to describe grace in its Christian sense. Why? Because it gives the impression that grace covers all sin. A better definition for grace is the undeserved opportunity to have a relationship with God. Returning to the less than helpful definition the reason we have power to be holy isn’t because God gives it to us - it’s because God himself is in us. The definition of grace in terms of relationship is better because it makes clear that sin which amounts to saying no to relationship with God is not covered by grace. We can sin in one of two ways: -without making any conscious choice in relation to God - for example someone might commit adultery without it being a conscious decision in relation to God (no-one reading this can because I’ve just made clear adultery is sin). -by making a choice to behave in a way that was aware of its relational significance towards God. Someone could do something that doesn’t appear naughty (to the unwise) - like for example deliberately misrepresent Christianity by giving the impression that God’s love is tolerant. Such sin is not under grace - it’s ignorant of grace. It’s possible to repent from such sin but the problem is people who sin in this way find it difficult to take their repentance seriously. Love - telling the average person that God loves them will most likely be received by them to mean one or both of the following: -that God feels love for them. And God does - but God feeling love for us provides the foundation only for our feeling love for those we feel love for. It isn’t an adequate description of the love of God shown in the gospel. -that God is willing to set aside wrongdoing. But as I explained above God doesn’t set aside any wrongdoing. And lastly when an average person describes someone as loving they mean that they find them caring. But none of these is close to a Christian understanding of God’s love. We therefore have no choice, if we wish to be responsible when talking about God’s love, but to explain God’s love using words like holiness, justice and mercy. And to specifically explain that it isn’t tolerance. There are passages in the bible which may give the impression that there is a tolerance component to Christianity. For example Col 3:13 and Eph 4:2 tell us to bear with others. But this isn’t tolerance. God wants us to bear with others, not because he wants us to tolerate either our sin or the sin of others, but so that we communicate his desire to show mercy.
I can't stand the prosperity gospel or the feel good preaching. That we are given some sort of easy life. I also don't agree with pastor Chandler Calvinist view. The free and unconditional election of God for His own pleasure and glory. I just don't see how that is plausible.
Why can't we have a balanced prosperity/personal help message that is founded on drawing closer to God and is tempered by biblical teachings of repentance, tests, trials, and suffering? This seems to be the most biblical narrative that we see over and over again from the old testament through the new in almost every canonized book. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Deism is not an organized religion, and never will be. Deism, also, does not endorse unknown things like heaven and hell. There is no room for revelation, either. Suffering is the default human condition. Prosperity does not depend on your beliefs. Millennials are done with organized religions.
And who were we meant to be? Creatures made in the image and likeness of God.. imago dei. We grow into this? At times I feel Christians hate their own humanity
God's law will always be in effect. He never changes. What parts are binding? All children are under grace and mercy. Just as your children are not held up to your standards, God's children are not held to His standards as of yet. Children, as they are children, are not expected to do as any adult does. But as a child grows they are given more and more of the ways of an adult. They are then expected to be obey their parents and learn all they can to prepare to become adults that can manage their own affairs. So, if you start with just one law from God, at least you then show that you are growing properly. As you learn, He gives you more things to do and to practice. So yes, we can start with one law and hope to keep growing. No one should come down on someone who isn't doing as they do because they might have different interests and picked a law they think they can keep. It just may not be the one you chose. We should encourage anyone who is trying to please The Father or The Son. What we can do is to learn from one another and stop calling names and realize that Jesus "kept" the whole law. So it is fulfilled. One day we as a family, community, and country can come together as one in our Lord Jesus Christ. We can show you how simple it is to "keep" the Ten Commandments, and do it according to the Word of God, it is found in Deut.6:8-9. God will come back to save His children, those who show to be His, for we will do as we see our father do.
Theologians can not even agree among themselves about their theology, and you want us all to follow you on your theological grievances that have brought so much pain to the body of Christ throughtout Church history. What's the point?
Also "it's not good people that go to heaven, it's justified people who go to heaven"
Matt is the best.
I thought we aren’t going to heaven after all but are going to be resurrected in our bodies when Jesus returns. He talks about “teaching the timeless truths” to our children but the real antidote would be to teach historical truths, otherwise it’s still Platonism. Jesus was the promised messiah who became flesh in space and time, not a moral teacher who preached timeless truths
@@Jay-qx5ps Both are possible, technically. Christ said to one of the thieves he was crucified with “Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:43) but there is a final judgement where all of the dead are resurrected and either stay with Christ on earth for his 1000 year Reich, or are cast into the lake of fire.
@@bloodbased and after the 1000 years they then go to heaven? Reading the last chapter of revelation I get a different impression. Interesting choice to use the word Reich here btw
I am only 15 minutes in and just about want to jump for joy!! As a youth minister, I so hope this idea of kids/teen church on Sundays gets squashed... there is no biblical support for it and it's so damaging.
My church runs early childhood ministry from crawler-6... but once a child is 7, essentially 2-3rd grade, they sit through the main service... and why wouldn't they be able to? They already have learned to sit in desks for hours at a time at school.
Our Youth group is split and grades 5-8 meet on Tuesday evenings and Grades 9-12 meet on Fridays (my wife and I run both). This allows them to hear the main doctrinal teachings, learn to sit in service so it's not a surprise at graduation, and learn how to be a member of the church through serving in different help capacities along side the adults.
At youth group, we have plenty of food and games, but we teach the students about biblical literacy, how to reach the lost, we challenge them with with Word...but we also teach prosperity (not millionaires) and morals in a balanced way that is tempered by the scriptural view of test and trials. Both of these things are found throughout scripture so you can't throw the baby out (gospel) with the bath water (tests, trials, prosperity, even personal help). It all matters.
This was really good! The balance of it all was absolutely beautiful. I love how y’all brought balance to not being so hell fire and brownstone that people feel condemned, but not being so much the other way that people don’t know the truth of the Bible!!!
I’ve attended mildly charismatic affiliated churches my whole life. No direct knock to those I still like them to a degree. But it burdens my heart to attend churches and watch them go from the truth to beach balls, and comfort, fun, worship “experiences”, all outreach no discipleship, every sermon talks highly of Christ but someone turns into a moral lesson about conquering the giant/fear/anxiety/money problem in your life and very very very rarely do we actually learn what the scriptures say. There are certainly verses shared but people walk out knowing nothing more about the sanctifying power of Christ. It’s so nuanced and clever that when describing it to someone it’s almost impossible to put into direct words because those I see as victims to this teaching simply say we’re still learning about Jesus. There’s nothing inherently wrong from a motivational Sunday session/gathering but the pure lack of reverence I see and have been a part of I feel God is really taking the scales off my eyes to this season.
"Look at how beautiful Jesus is and you'll see things rightly" great interview
So good.
Love to hear Matt Chandler...such wisdom...thank you! Great discussion...❗
I watched this when it released and now again a few years later.
This is a very under rated episode.
I've heard my pastor say "You know, I really don't know why, or how to explain why Christians suffer". To me, that's a pretty evident check engine light, even if he's not even close to heretical. This is something I really need to talk to him about over some steak or something.
We suffer because we rely on a man, Jesus. That is why Jesus sends us to the Father, O.T. to receive the law and Jesus' way to walk as a child of God. We are children of God and should walk as Jesus did. Jesus didn't obey the laws of kings or priests, but He did obey the laws of a child.
From The Father we learn who Jesus is. Psalms 119:151
Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.
Jesus is The Word, John 1:1-5
The Word God spoke: Exodus 20:1 (His Spirit)
The Word God wrote: Deuteronomy 4:13(His Covenant)
and The Word God made flesh John 1:14 (Jesus). He is our example of The Trinity. He is The Law that hung on the cross and The Law that is written in the heart.
Psalms 40:7
Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me
Hebrews 10:7
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
The Father places us in His Son in Deut.6:8-9, and we begin to grow in Spirit as we do The Word. We bind Scriptures, we make us new heart, from the prophets, and we learn to stand strong in our Lord Jesus Christ.
You will find Jesus leads us to The Father, The Father shows us Jesus, then they show us who we are.
The only reason we find that there are bad teachers is that they will not grow. They give us the same stories over and over. They spend more time studying The Word than most of us because we work for our family etc.. So we pay the preachers to tell us what God wants from us. But Paul tells us best when He tells us to "keep" all that is good, be doers of The Word, and put on the full armour of God.
It is those who DO The Word, that is given answers so many of us seek. We mostly have worked for what money can buy. It is time to work, study and do, for what money CAN NOT buy. Obey The Father, heed the advice of Paul and put on Jesus, The Ten Commandments.
This was such a great segment. I'm grateful God led me to this channel. Subscribed!! God bless you all.
Zandi Glad you enjoyed it thanks for watching
Very interesting. I've always wondered why some Churches don't specifically state what kind of stances they have on doctrine and scripture.
Thanks Matt. This is very important nowadays, and can have an impact in this mellineal generation. Here in northern europe, there is more pervasive athiesm. The government are secular now and enforcing new rules that is discounting christian subject in schools. The people dont seem to react toward this new moral standard of diesm. On the contrary people seem to embrace this , and regard christianity as a cult . Therefore we must bold in spreading the gospel, and be like Paul, and not be ashame of the gospel,
This is great! As a chaplain at a juvenile residential treatment facility, I came across Christian Smith's research a while ago. I would recommend all church leaders read his book or watch his documentary.
Book and movie name?? definitely interested!!
@@BEABEREAN10 Soul Searching: The Religious and Spiritual Lives of American Teenagers
Another stellar show!
Thanks Steven. Thanks for watching the show. The feed back is much appropriated.
I wouldn’t mind seeing an episode dedicated to moral law and ceremonial law And how we look at that in light of Christ
I'll have to watch the whole podcast eventually, but I'm only about 15 minutes in. So far, I like a lot of what Chandler has to say about a "feel good" sort of faith. However, I also think it's important not to leave evidence behind because we want to hold to tradition. Coming out of a Holiness background, and working several years in behavioral health, I can certainly say the best results come when you combine faith with good therapeutic (not necessarily therapy) practices, like diet, routines, reducing stimuli, and of course community. They don't have to be from Christian tradition to work well. Mental illness is real, and so are "struggles," and the sooner the wider church understands the science, the better we can serve.
Thanks for this. God bless you guys.
As someone in the Anglican tradition, many feel Jesus died to make us nice. Blessings.
I'm a Melbourne Anglican - I feel your pain
I have not heard about this. Help me understand what you mean?
@@TheRemnantRadio I think what James means - at least how I understood his comment - is that in many Anglican circles, biblical truths have been compromised for the sake of inclusivity and an unwillingness to confront error. This is particularly evident over here in Australia, in which the majority of Anglican dioceses (save the conservative Sydney diocese - our last bastion of hope) are either liberal or unwilling to divide over essential issues. The predominantly Anglo culture of politeness, courtesy and 'English propriety' within Australian Anglicanism often begins with compassion before drifting into cowardice and compromise.
Isaac Lee oah I see like the episcopal church here in America. They were/are Anglican. But the liberal branch. That makes sense.
Isaac Lee as an Anglican, what is your Analysis of this repeated pattern? Why are these churches prone to become more and more liberal?
Because I have watched this in parts, I forgot what the acronym was and started hearing "MTV" instead 🤦♂️😂
MTD. Moral therapeutic deism
What's with the creepy whispering at the beginning of the video: "click the play button"?
Yeah, creepy!
Wow guy you are talking so fast, I m glad there's subtitles and speed option on UA-cam 😁
Which guy?
@@HenryPipes both of you. I did a mistake I should have written guys not guy
Wow, this was absolutely beautiful.
I really enjoyed this broadcast but I have to say It's always confusing to me when I hear Calvinists say they worry about false doctrine. The saved are going to be saved, the lost are going to be lost and even if the lost hear the Gospel they're unwilling and unable to respond anyway unless God makes them so...what's it matter? In fact, on their view, the devil is superfluous as well. What's the doing "blinding" people who can't see anyway? It just makes no sense. You are worried about false teachers doing what? Deceiving people who were already damned anyway and had no hope of salvation? Or not being able to deceive the elect who are going to be saved anyway?
click the play button click it? some creepy voice whispered that in the very beginning
Any chance you have a link to the data from Fuller Youth Institute that Matt referenced at 15:37?
Self, self, self ..... and more self!
A travesty of the Christian faith.
Upside down world - with an upside down Church. How much this must hurt the Lord!
Great interview. Is there a contextual ripe youth educational program? Resources? I want to prepare our youth for college or the work place. Thx
i first heard this concept in Matt’s book explicit gospel (such a phenomenal read)
You really should look closer into the history or American culture and what has influenced it from the 40's on up. This has a tremendous effect on how Christian approach is now in the Church in the culture.
Did we get something incorrect?
Would Biblical counseling or Christian Psychology be considered moralistic therapeutic deism?
Whilst "feel good" teaching could be entering self help new age stuff, God does want us to have good self image, self esteem, and emotionally healthy.
I am proof of God's ability to heal and restore the soul.
Does God want us to have a good self image, self esteem, and emotional health? I am not necessarily disagreeing, but that definitely doesn't seem like a big emphasis in the Bible.
@@ethanweber7976 Once you look beyond the theory / theology of the Bible, you'll find verses that relate to a God that intimately cares about us as humans. And, once you encounter the Holy Spirit, you'll really know
Creepy sound at the beginning! 😂
For reals! I was prepping for a scary add I was about to close my eyes 😂😂😂
I don't understand how anyone could give credence to someone who believes in a god that, from eternity, would damn most of humanity to eternal suffering for his glory.
you mean the Calvinistic God right??
Some very good stuff here - but towards the end of the discussion the focus of the discussion was left behind. MTD is not one theological tradition versuses another. MTD is a malaise that cuts across all evangelical traditions. Think of how church can be done today: you can pick music from elevation or hillsong or the gettys; you turn to a group like Focus on the Family or similar for family content; you maybe pick an apologist as your go to defender of the faith; for publicity and finances you turn to some outside group to provide expertise; and on we can go with this. The point is that much of church becomes a la carte, with an emphasis on what works and not what fits together. It is not about one theological tradition as being better than another, as much as we end up with pastaches. Paul had a central vision that enfused all that He did, as one example. He of course was neither Reform or Anglican or Charasmatic or whatever we now identify ourselves as. Theological traditions are not the issue, when we are talking of orthodox theological traditions, the root problem of MTD is a lack of a controlling theological vision (whatever the heritage is). A theological tradition that is real and vibrant, is not just addressing issues of yesterday. MTD will not be overcome if we do not embrace an all encompassing vision like those who went before us (be it Ambrose, the Venerable Bede, Bernard of Clairvaux, Menno Simons or John Wesley) that has in all ages driven the church forward.
I know its been a while since you left this comment but just wanted to say I agree completely. Many Christians say things like "theology/doctrine isn't important, relationship with God is". I sympathize with the sentiment but...that statement IS a doctrine! The thing is we all have a personal "theology." Its just the collection of things we believe about God and His Word. The problem is for most Christians (in America anyway) is that its hopelessly self contradictory and incomplete due to the a la carte approach, as you said, while a systematic approach that comes from thoughtful, Biblically based traditions are seen as bad because they are "religion, not relationship".
So good.
Dan Wilde thank you Dan.
What would be some examples from scripture of happiness and joy having different definitions?
@ about 39 min
Being good is already in confirmation with nature.
Not here to talk shit, and I genuinely want to understand. These guys are "by the book" literalists and are against those who see it as metaphor? Is that an accurate summary?
I had to laugh because of your acronym "MTD", as if it is a drug or a mental disorder (as which it can charactirised).
Good people go to heaven not because they are good but because God is good.
Only problem with this is that weve got a Calvinist Matt Chandler coming against another labeled doctrine. Calvinist doctrine is far worse than this deistic belief. Must we always label a trend or belief. I think we should get rid of Calvinism first and then conquer some of this other low hanging fruit. I've seen the destructive nature of Calvinism. Again....lets move that out and then start making disciples with the true gospel. The true gospel does contain some of those qualities of therapy and wholeness. You'll never get that with Calvinism. It's heresy and distorts the true gospel.
Then Martin Luther, Charles Hodges, BB Warfield, Francis Turretin, Jonathan Edwards, John Owen, Augustine, Charles Spurgeon, Gerhardus Vos, Herman Bavinck are all heretics? And this is just a tiny sampling of some of the greatest extra-biblical theologians in the history of the church. Although I disagree with my Armenianist brothers and sisters, I wouldn’t call them heretics. I came and from an Armenianist/charismatic background most of my Christian life and looking back on it, most of the accusations I heard (and agreed with) against Calvinism were strawman arguments. I believe most people who are opposed to it don’t really understand Calvinism. Calvin wasn’t a one trick pony, only concerned with election and predestination. In fact, it was only a small part of his overall theology. Take the time and read his institutes of the Christian religion and see how much you actually disagree with. If you really are a Christian, I think you’ll find you’ll be agreement with the vast majority of what Calvin has to say. By the way, Luther and Augustine both believed in election and predestination and I don’t see anybody calling them heretics.
It is time we learn who we are to depend on. To learn how to get our Lord Jesus Christ to help us win this war. We must 'do' The Word. Not just read, or just study, but apply the wisdom God teaches us.
May we introduce Jesus to those who do not yet know Him? Put Him on and learn from Him.
No religion knows all the Truth, but God does and needs you to know The Truth.
Psalms 119:151
Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.
Jesus is The Word, John 1:1-5
The Word God spoke: Exodus 20:1 (His Spirit)
The Word God wrote: Deuteronomy 4:13(His Covenant)
and The Word God made flesh John 1:14 (Jesus). He is our example of The Trinity. He is The Law that hung on the cross and The Law that is written in the heart.
Psalms 40:7
Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me
Hebrews 10:7
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
We do not work for our salvation, Jesus died and saved the world. But we can work for our protection from the plagues, those coming to steal, kill, and destroy, from deception etc.. There is nothing wrong with works for we are judged on our works. Faith without works is dead. Why would Jesus tell us to pray for workers, if no work is to be done?
Isaiah 8:16
Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Come out of her (religion) and trust "in" Jesus. He will teach the children of God.
May we all receive the wisdom of The Father in Deut. 6:8-9 and the advice of Paul and put on Jesus. Do all you do in Him. A free gift from God, gracefully accept Him. Don't just believe in our Lord Jesus Christ, serve Him. Our plea to all is to PUT ON LIFE. Let our faith work for us. Jesus, The Son is the seal of God, His Word, His Ten Commandments. He is your anointing, get in Christ. Remember, heart, mind and soul, not just the heart.
Always use King James Version if possible. Not the N.K.J.V.. Stay away from any copyrighted Scriptures. We conquer our enemies, sin, and the world by coming together in our Lord Jesus Christ. Our peace is found "IN" Him. "It is finished."
Here are three words which you shouldn’t use to explain Christianity because people already have their own ideas about what they mean - and because they have no power to break through MTD - and they might even cause experienced Christians to have ideas that aren’t true - unless you first clearly redefine them:
Forgiveness - most people understand forgiveness to be letting people off for what they have done wrong. That’s not what Christian forgiveness is. God NEVER - not when we were not Christians and not after we become Christians - tolerates our wrongdoing - he doesn’t let us off. Forgiveness is about God GIVING himself FOR us. His justice (which is a beautiful thing - imagine if God was not just) means that he must punish our sin. He punishes all our sin - even the sin after we become a Christian is punished. It’s all placed on Jesus. To suggest that God lets us off our sin is to say that he is tolerant. To suggest that God is tolerant is to destroy Christianity. Why? Because if God is tolerant he could just have announced that our sins were forgiven - Jesus would not have had to die on the cross. No cross no Christianity. To preach tolerance is to completely turn your back on Christianity.
Grace - when the average Joe hears the word gracious they think of kindness - or even someone being accommodating. And when some of the world’s most senior teachers and theologians talk about grace they speak as if grace is God giving us things we don’t deserve such as power to be holy and forgiveness for all sin. But this is a less than helpful way to describe grace in its Christian sense. Why? Because it gives the impression that grace covers all sin. A better definition for grace is the undeserved opportunity to have a relationship with God. Returning to the less than helpful definition the reason we have power to be holy isn’t because God gives it to us - it’s because God himself is in us. The definition of grace in terms of relationship is better because it makes clear that sin which amounts to saying no to relationship with God is not covered by grace. We can sin in one of two ways:
-without making any conscious choice in relation to God - for example someone might commit adultery without it being a conscious decision in relation to God (no-one reading this can because I’ve just made clear adultery is sin).
-by making a choice to behave in a way that was aware of its relational significance towards God. Someone could do something that doesn’t appear naughty (to the unwise) - like for example deliberately misrepresent Christianity by giving the impression that God’s love is tolerant. Such sin is not under grace - it’s ignorant of grace. It’s possible to repent from such sin but the problem is people who sin in this way find it difficult to take their repentance seriously.
Love - telling the average person that God loves them will most likely be received by them to mean one or both of the following:
-that God feels love for them. And God does - but God feeling love for us provides the foundation only for our feeling love for those we feel love for. It isn’t an adequate description of the love of God shown in the gospel.
-that God is willing to set aside wrongdoing. But as I explained above God doesn’t set aside any wrongdoing.
And lastly when an average person describes someone as loving they mean that they find them caring.
But none of these is close to a Christian understanding of God’s love.
We therefore have no choice, if we wish to be responsible when talking about God’s love, but to explain God’s love using words like holiness, justice and mercy. And to specifically explain that it isn’t tolerance.
There are passages in the bible which may give the impression that there is a tolerance component to Christianity. For example Col 3:13 and Eph 4:2 tell us to bear with others. But this isn’t tolerance. God wants us to bear with others, not because he wants us to tolerate either our sin or the sin of others, but so that we communicate his desire to show mercy.
The first cause is logical. God is a construct.
I can't stand the prosperity gospel or the feel good preaching. That we are given some sort of easy life. I also don't agree with pastor Chandler Calvinist view. The free and unconditional election of God for His own pleasure and glory. I just don't see how that is plausible.
Fernando Alarcon I played the flute for you and you would not dance, we sang a dirge and you would not weep
Why can't we have a balanced prosperity/personal help message that is founded on drawing closer to God and is tempered by biblical teachings of repentance, tests, trials, and suffering? This seems to be the most biblical narrative that we see over and over again from the old testament through the new in almost every canonized book. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Deism is not an organized religion, and never will be. Deism, also, does not endorse unknown things like heaven and hell. There is no room for revelation, either. Suffering is the default human condition. Prosperity does not depend on your beliefs. Millennials are done with organized religions.
I miss the Led Zepplin intro...
Is Matt Chandler affiliated with NAR?
And who were we meant to be? Creatures made in the image and likeness of God.. imago dei. We grow into this? At times I feel Christians hate their own humanity
God's law will always be in effect. He never changes. What parts are binding? All children are under grace and mercy. Just as your children are not held up to your standards, God's children are not held to His standards as of yet. Children, as they are children, are not expected to do as any adult does.
But as a child grows they are given more and more of the ways of an adult. They are then expected to be obey their parents and learn all they can to prepare to become adults that can manage their own affairs.
So, if you start with just one law from God, at least you then show that you are growing properly. As you learn, He gives you more things to do and to practice. So yes, we can start with one law and hope to keep growing.
No one should come down on someone who isn't doing as they do because they might have different interests and picked a law they think they can keep. It just may not be the one you chose.
We should encourage anyone who is trying to please The Father or The Son. What we can do is to learn from one another and stop calling names and realize that Jesus "kept" the whole law. So it is fulfilled. One day we as a family, community, and country can come together as one in our Lord Jesus Christ.
We can show you how simple it is to "keep" the Ten Commandments, and do it according to the Word of God, it is found in Deut.6:8-9.
God will come back to save His children, those who show to be His, for we will do as we see our father do.
Theologians can not even agree among themselves about their theology, and you want us all to follow you on your theological grievances that have brought so much pain to the body of Christ throughtout Church history. What's the point?
Woke Chandler
hit dislike twice XD