Hoping to create more "What RUINED/What's RUINING" videos again! Been meaning to cover this topic for years but it's a rough one to navigate. If you enjoyed the vid, give it a like and thanks for watching!
One of the most amusing facts I learned about Ren and Stimpy’s production was that in the studio, there was a place on the wall labeled "John's Kneecaps" or something like that, and the artists would kick it. Soon, it turned into a gaping hole. That’s how much he was hated
The ren and stimpy crew hated johns abuse so much that they made an entire episode later on just to dunk on him. Reverand Jack Cheese is basically how the crew was able to vent out their frusterations of his tyrannical rule.
@@GoleonThis episode was done after John K was fired. Bob Camp's team retooled a leftover John K episode pitch. In John's pitch, Ren was an abusive producer and Stimpy a tired animator. In the final version Ren was basically John K (he even wore his glasses).
I actually got the chance to interview Bob Camp for a college paper. I asked him how they got away with a lot of the dirty jokes on Ren and Stimpy and he said “We would write even WORSE jokes in the scripts for the FCC to focus on so the other stuff got swept underneath the rug”
Apparently, that’s what Animaniacs and the New Adventures of Mighty Mouse did. Basically, they had one really offensive joke the network would be upset with, initially fight to keep that joke in, then give up and basically say “we can get rid of this joke, but we can keep these other jokes, right?”
@@Morningstar91939 Mighty Mouse had John K. as a director, Bakshi as the producer, and future Animaniacs co-writer Tom Minton as the de-facto top writer.
Back when I was In college the Subject of John K and Ren and Stimpy came up, My animation instructors had nothing good to say about him, talked openly about the shitty things he did to his workers, and talked about his Grooming, in 2013, long before the victims came forwards. We all Knew, everyone Knew, it was only a shock to people outside the industry just how bad he really was and they told us to keep us safe from both his abusive perfectionist nature, and to keep the women in our class from becoming his victims. He should have been exposed sooner.
God this is so similar to VM. His awful behavior was very well known by the convention industry through out the 2000’s and almost everyone working at Funimation. Nothing was done cause his popularity at the time made him untouchable and in Funimation’s case the other vas couldn’t report him due to him being all chummy chummy with the guy that was in charge at the time. The only reason he fell from grace was a ton of good timing. First someone on Twitter who use to work at cons started a thread exposing everything he did at conventions during the 2000’s which allowed others victimized in some way by him to add in their own experiences. These ranged from inappropriate hugs to him getting angry when a mother & daughter declined spending time with him in his hotel room to him flat out saying “Well we can change that.” to a male fan who politely declined his church album due to being Jewish. As for the stuff the og poster listed it’s quite a lot. Too much to say here. Basically the worst was an incident of him stalking a big named JP va during a con to the point that she didn’t return to the US con circuit till years later and when she did she had to get a new hotel room under a fake name after VM found out what her og room number was. Anyways after this Funimation released a statement that after complaints about VM breaking the company’s no harassment policy (which got put in place after Sony bought Funimation and the ceo aka VM’s buddy that allowed his bs to continue for way too long had left) got brought to light they did an internal investigation and discovered that it was true thus VM was let go. Rooster Teeth also released a similar announcement while two of his victims at Funimation brought up their stories and initially it seemed like that be it. But then not long later VM issued a lawsuit at Funimation as well as the two victims that at the time recently spoke out about their experiences with him annnd yeah his career was over with. Instead of admitting fault and getting help like he claimed he would do, he got all angry and petty and egotistic (as he thinks he’s still a big deal when he’s not) because of it all other anime dubbing studios refused to work with him. Viz was the last company to give him work and that was only due to an agreement with the licenser on not replacing the vas while they were doing their role. As for the convention scene he’s basically blacklisted from most major cons with only those desperate for guests (very small usually obscure cons or ones as infamous as him like Anime Matsuri) asking for him to be a guest. Well that’s unless he doesn’t removed due to backlash that includes other guests threatening to back out in protest if he’s allowed in. I ended up finding out that a local anime con my state had (it’s since moved to a nearby state) actually knew so well about how bad he was that those running it told the staff to never bring him as a guest. He was banned from attending. That says so much. Besides the low level cons, he now tries to host illegal autograph sessions in malls and random parking lots only to be fairly kicked out due to not having a permit or permission to do so. He also once tried to sneak into a con as the guest to someone running a table in the dealers room/artist alley but after it was found out there was an online backlash so big that the convention staff barred him from coming.
@@Goleon I almost misread the initials, and at first you were talking about Vivziepop, as there’s been allegations that she’s a toxic person to be around. All you need to do is look up how she reacted when she was denied the $5,000 “executive producer” credit for the Lackadaisy BackerKit.
@@EpixAndroid - Yeah. After she did nothing but just donate and others called out an employee for that other project for liking transphobic tweets than hiding behind their coworkers who got rightfully called out for defending them. Also those “accusations” against VivziePop have been shot down by everyone else who is working with her as well as by those who use to work for her.
That bit about how Robyn wasn't sure if John K. was hitting on her because he was "being nice" is exactly why we need to teach kids that predators aren't always that creepy dude hiding in the bushes with a white van.
And they’re not always “unattractive” or losers. They come in all shapes and sizes and while it’s not good to be paranoid about predators, we need to remind kids to remember the signs of these terrible people.
Female predators get a slap on the wrist and glamorized by the media and their underage male victims are told they are lucky. Society needs to hold them to the same level of disgust they give men. On the flipside, people also need to hold women accountable when they falsely accuse men of predation they did not commit.
Sorry, no, special snowflake right wingers will accuse you of teaching sex to kids. They will lie about what you are teaching children so they can be free to take advantage of them, because it's always projection with them.
Doug Lawrence actually does a lot for SpongeBob. He's a writer and artist for the show too, not to mention his other voice roles like Larry Lobster, Fred, Realistic Fish Head, etc. And he's been there since the beginning. He's probably one of the big reasons SpongeBob has kept up the quality since Stephen Hillenburg's death. He's quite talented.
John K. was clearly a man who allowed his own issues to spiral out of control until they completely ruined him, but then used said issues to scapegoat the disgusting actions he committed that most likely had nothing to do with said issues. A pioneer of art and media, most definitely. A terrible human being, again most definitely.
@@GMAV3RICK That's not for you to decide. It's so easy for you to say that. "I love his animations so his other crimes should be completely ignored" What a brain-dead sociopath egoistical childish take. You are the type of person who will defend their favorite artist not matter who they hurt as long as you love their stuff. Yuck!
i think that john K is a very good example of how just being edgy doesn’t make you funny or entertaining, you still have to actually make jokes in order for things to be humorous.
Fully agree. I like dark humor, ACTUAL dark humor but my god do too many people think it's just randomly spewing shocking and disturbing things with no point other than to make others uncomfortable or upset. In reality dark humor takes some level of thought and nuance, it takes knowing your audience, understanding where the line is drawn and dipping a single toe over it. Just saying dark things with no punchline? No worth while pay off? No point other than "offend as many people as possible"? That's not dark humor, that's just what you get when you let an edgy 12 year old play Cards Against Humanity.
Unfortunately humor is very subjective, I know that’s everyone go-to for “bad humor” but what’s not funny to you will be funny to others no matter how you swing it. It’s hard to police humor that way is all I’m saying.
Limitations can actually be good for creativity. Him being forced to tone down his show to make it “appropriate” for kids probably did a ton to help John K. and his team to think outside the box.
Robin Byrd really did say it perfectly. A lot of people have had difficulties growing up with parents and guardians. That is terrible, and they deserved better than that. They also deserve to seek professional help to work through their trauma. However, that is no excuse to be a terrible person yourself. A lot of them use their terrible experiences as a drive to be good people. But it's terrible to imagine that just as many go down the other road, and that makes them just as bad as the people that hurt them.
Yeah I was happy to hear that quote from her because that's the philosophy I live with. Yeah, I had a crappy childhood, but one's past only guides, it does NOT define them and being abused or traumatized is no excuse to become the one doing that to someone else, especially not a vulnerable child that doesn't understand why mom/dad hates them. Children, are not punching bags, and someone else stealing your lunch money is not an excuse to rob a bank. It's sad though, just how often people... Almost get it and still fall into the same trap of perpetuating abuse and continuing that harmful, destructive and self destructive cycle because that's how they were raised. Yeah... That's a straw man argument, if you hate your upbringing, you should strive to cultivate a different upbringing then your own if you choose to have children or become a more parental like figure because at that point, your abuser won. Not only did they destroy your life but how many others through your actions that you let them influence? Tbh this is why we need more mental health resources and a stronger emphasis on good mental health because ik it's hard sometimes, but it's absolutely possible to break the cycle and absolutely necessary if we're to foster a society worth persevering through more generations. I really hope more people choose to live a life they can be proud of despite bad upbringings rather then allow pain, hate or spite to win and destroy them
@@discordiacreates6669It’s embarrassing and shameful to seek treatment. Other people will judge you as weak minded and crazy. At the end of the day you control your own brain and your own thoughts. No amount of “professional help” can change that fact.
@@princesspikachu3915 How disrespectful of you. Not everyone is skullful or have the tools needed to know how to combat their emotions and thoughts--there's a reason it's a profession. I'm happy you seem to know oh-so-well how to take control of your own emotions (but seeing your lack of empathy I would assume not), however, others have mental illnesses or trauma that's too much to handle themselves. That's like telling people who have had a leg injury to "just walk;" just because it's not a physical illness doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
@@princesspikachu3915 The point of professional help is simply to make it easier.... because, y'know....they're professionals in it. Just like you can paint your house, repair your car, or build a shelf on your own - and you can absolutely do them well. However, professionals are trained more explicitly in doing those things and therefore often can do them better, more consistently, and typically have access to tools that the general public doesn't. Also just as an addendum, not everyone possess the same level of control over their own brains/thoughts - especially those who are mentally ill or disordered given that....well that's kinda the whole point of the "illness" part? You can't control being sick, but you /are/ responsible for how that sickness effects others - like not going around and sneezing on others and potentially making them sick as well. Or in the case of being abused as a child and PTSD - not going around and enacting that same mistreatment you experienced as a kid on others.
I think the reason the Adult Party Cartoon failed is because John misunderstood the appeal of his own show. Ren and Stimpy being gross is part of its identity, but not the ENTIRETY of its identity. It also has good jokes, sound affects, good animation and good timing. People found the characters genuinely funny, and the characters being gross became a step up for the comedy. And part of that was the crew that worked on it who John took for granted. Without them, Ren and Stimpy would be nothing. APC, ironically, because of its lack of restriction, lost its bite by going too far into the grossness and violence. When you overexpose an audience to something, they get desensitized to it and either get too freaked out and turn it off, or lose the motivation to keep watching because it’s boring and not funny. I would argue that the emotions you want your audience to feel the very least is boredom or annoyance, because if you lean too far into them, they’ll change the channel. I don’t take this story as a pro-censorship lesson, but one regarding artistic restraint: if you want a story to have an impact, negative or positive, sometimes less is more. Family Guy can get pretty crude and violent, but at least Family Guy has an identity beyond just being crude and violent. APC just…. Doesn’t.
I cannot think of anything other than violence and shock humor driving Family Guy. I personally would rather watch Stimpy’s Pregnant than anything Family Guy related. And I hate APC.
To be fair to John K , he’s admitted multiple times that APC was horrible and he did the gross out humor because the fans demanded it and spike wanted him to make a show like South Park. He’s very egotistical as a critic and showrunner but he’s modest as an artist
I also think that sometimes outside restraints or some boundries are good bc then creators have to put in the effort and come up with some creative and clever ways to work around/get past these 'blocks'. Like they have to make a joke funny outside of 'violnece and grossout' or 'sex/lewd'. But when it's a free-for-all and no boundries/rules then some creators, who lack self-restraint can get lazy. Becuase they don't have to try anymore.
John K. Is unable to tell a story, that's why, if the original show worked it was because of Bob Camp, John K. on its own is useless, The Ripping Friends looks great, but it's bland and boring!
I once got into a heated argument on the internet with John K in the late 90s, back when I still considered him a personal hero. He claimed that it was "terrible animators working on commercials" were the ones ruining the industry. I argued that the animators working in commercials were doing far better work than what we'd been seeing on television shows during that time, and that commercials for Flintstones cereal and Flintstones vitamins was far beyond anything we'd seen on the Flintstones television series, because that's what corporations want to put their money into. He was determined to make me know it was the ARTISTS who were bad, not the corporations, and that those commercials did NOT, in fact, have quality animation.
The worst part of this isn't just that John K is a huge self-destructive creep, but how many creeps seemed to converge around Nickelodeon those days. Ezel Channel, Brain Peck, Marty Weiss - and of course, the biggest one next to John himself, Dan "Get in the Van" Schneider. With this many convicted and ousted predators, its little wonder how K was such a protected "open secret" during the 90s.
Thanks, I wasn't aware of that broader context! I mean specifically there, I was aware it was still across society. Heck, in the '70s when I grew up that stuff was sort of accepted.
I was a huge fan of this show, I watched it religiously and when they had merchandise I bought it. I wrote John K and I got a letter back along with a paper with sketches of different characters signed, then I was in a house fire and everything got destroyed. A couple years later I sent a letter to John K telling him what happened, I got a manila envelope with a letter asking me if I was OK and that I could stop by Spumco if I wanted a tour, in that envelope was a huge stack of sketches, Jimmy, Ren, Stimpy etc. I was overjoyed and in my eyes John was a hero, until I found out later he was having inappropriate relationships with girls who my age at the time. I was bummed out, John encouraged me to keep drawing and pursue my dreams and I find out the man was a monster in other aspects of his life. I still love this show and I still appreciate the fact he wrote me two times and sent sketches both times, never went to Spumco though.
it's like the priest, filantropist, the great (gym/sports)teacher... Offering candy to lure its prey and surroundings into a sense of false security. Thankfully you never went and just had the candy, without ever walking into his web of lies. I thoroughly enjoyed Ren and Stimpy. My father was sort of like that General too. The description John gave here when talking about his dad brought back a few memories (about the remarkable way to see a father slowly boil over - while your fear starts rising). The constant dismissal felt familiar too. Not to excuse John, but such a father messes you up profoundly. I'm lucky I had a caring mother. I suppose we both dodged a bullet.
I truly believe restriction helps a writer/artist grow more than unrestricted freedom. Its why shows like Dan Vs, Invader Zim, and Regular Show thrived and was able to be enjoyed by all ages. What the writers originally intended for the shows would have produced material unrecognizable to what we love.
Maybe people should stop forcing niche artists to conform and appeal to the largest common denominator. Like they pluck these unique and weird voices out from obscurity then get surprised when these people are weird. I don't know my point is like, with Johen Vasquez, yeah Invader Zim is good I guess what I'm taking issue with is you saying someone has to make a narrative enjoyable for "all ages" instead of letting their freak flag fly. Obviously he can't make a comic where Zim uses some sort of multi headed tool to peel off Dib's skin (just an example of the most extreme thing I could think of for the official release to do) I don't know what I'm trying to say. I hate the idea of hindering or restricting yourself because other people can't or don't want to catch up. Kind of makes me think of how classrooms slow down to the slowest kid instead of moving kids up when they outpace the curriculum. Reminds me of communism, somehow.
@@SupHapCak It's confirmed that Nick was interested in another show like Ren and Stimpy. Nickelodeon producer Mary Harrington came across a comic book called Johnny the Homicidal Maniac and was impressed with the art-style and character designs in the series. She then contacted the creator of JtHM Jhonen Vasquez, who had zero experience in animation at the time, and asked him if he would like to pitch an animated series to Nickelodeon. Vasquez accepted the offer. Fun Fact: VivziePop the creator Hazbin Hotel confirmed that Zim was a big inspiration for her art style.
It kinda reminded me of batman the animated series. The creators even created a poster with batman, robin, the joker, and harley surrounded by things that the animators are not allowed to include in the show like cigarettes, alcohol, or blood. Though these limits did not stop them from creating a really dark cartoon that is appealing to kids and adults. They don't rely blood, sex, and violence for the maturity; they present through the themes of their story or much more subtle scenes ( I recalled the scene in Batman Beyond where Robin, now brainwashed into Jokers apprentice just broke down and cried while that grin was plastered to his face, its just sad and messed up). Like what Saber said, censorship and restrictionships provides structure.In a way, it allow artists to be mor flexible and creative.The only time it is bad is when it force creators to be placed in one box which really limits them in making new kinds of art.
@@melodybaoin1425 It also helps that this early Nickelodeon, because Sponge Bob wasn't a thing Nick had to rely on any show they could get no matter how weird they are. Thus Nick gave Spumco a good about of freedom, as long as they wouldn't go too far. Eventually thats what John K did, and Nick punished him for it. Balance is key.
@@SupHapCaki think there's a place for both no holds barred, AND restrictions for an artist. I think doing both is good. Someone should absolutely be able to make crazy, wild, edgy, violent, sexy, whatever art thats made from passion and comes from pure creativity and share it with others who are also into it - but I do thing restricting yourself can help you improve as an artist or explore your art in a way you wouldn't otherwise. Doesn't necessarily have to be in regards to the actual content of the art, either. Can be something like being forced to "cut the fat" or fit an idea into a certain amount of words or time limit, or a style outside of your usual I wish there was an easier way for artists to do both though. It seems a lot of artists get shoehorned into doing ONLY family friendly stuff where they have to tame down their stuff and aren't given the opportunity to freely make what they just want to make. BOTH are important! Idk if that's makes sense, I hope it does
John's misfortunes as a child should be in no way an excuse to carry on how he behaved as an adult. All these bad things couldn't happen to a more deserving person.
Saberspark decided to leave out that Kricfalusi was showing sexually explicit pics of his victims in degrading poses to his coworkers, and they did NOTHING about it. Was Bob Camp abused too? Or his other coworkers? Saberspark only alluded to Kricfalusi's abuse being an open secret, but never calls them out for being enablers.
I was a kid that loved gross out cartoons, including Mad and Cracked magazine that featured similarly detailed bodily functions. HOWEVER, that Adult Party Cartoon where Ren, and Stimpy eat snot was too much for even me. It's almost like watching a real person doing that.
Putting aside his transgressions, the main problem with John's work was he didn't value anything besides funny drawings. He needed people to help him with story construction and timing. When he did APC, the artists from the old show weren't with him and the show faltered badly. The worst aspect of APC by far was the painfully slow timing followed by the atrocious acting.
I would have to agree with that. Another example of John focusing on funny drawings over any actual substance is his web cartoon Cans Without Labels, which took forever to come out. For a short that is a little over 10 minutes long, it certainly does waste your time with stupid, distorted faces. Taking out all of the distorted faces and stupid character movement, the story is at most 5 minutes. His work, at its worst, is some of the most self-indulgent crap I’ve ever seen in animation.
@@SnakePit6517 John claimed he valued Clampett but his work had the furious pace of jazz. He didn't stop every two seconds to very slowly exhibit weird faces and he actually had a sense of storytelling
Exactly. The ideas on their own aren't funny, just gross and outrageous. It was the writers that saved Ren and Stimpy. John K is basically Gord from Freddy Got Fingered.
I recently saw a documentary about him that John K was interviewed in, and that dude would not take responsibility for things. He was blaming an underage girl for grooming him in some way that he seemed to perceive a honest innocence.
i mean the guy is probably traumatized as fuck himself and carrying some internalized childhood problems (likely abused himself) that leads to this shit. america is a shit-show in terms of social dysfunction and abuse. maybe we could just try to encourage people like john AND his victims to get the psychological help they need instead of just endlessly doing holier-than-thou grandstanding and demonizing people as evil. clearly doing the latter has never actually made this shit stop happening.
Sociopathic traits: lack of accountability, a conscience or empathy, impulsivity, hedonism, distain for authority. John K is probably a sociopath, narcopath in particular.
Understanding the actions, the circumstances, the perceptions of the individuals on both sides. Along with allowing the system of law to take action even if the law needs pressured to do so. Along with not publicly attacking either side is the only way to solve problems like this. The most common, like in this case, approach. Just causes one or both sides to take on defensive positions or posturing. Which does not allow us to move forward. You can hate me for this opinion, but this is the only way I was able to move on. Understanding why and even what led to the circumstances I found myself as a kid.
Oh my god, NOT this again! Yes, Bob WAS important to R&S’ development don’t get me wrong, however to just erase John K from Ren & Stimpy (even as the miserable scumbag he is) is something that I unfortunately don’t agree with. Animation, especially with Ren & Stimpy is a creative effort and singling a project down to one person no matter how much they did, is just not right to me. Hell, I believe Bob Camp himself even hates being called the “Real” creator of Ren & Stimpy. So unless Bob says anything himself, let’s please try and not put words into anyone’s mouth. Edit: Apologies if I sounded hostile or angry. That honestly was not my intention, it’s just that I often see a lot of people (mostly on Twitter) singling Ren & Stimpy’s success to one person, John or Bob it doesn’t matter. Sorry if I gave y’all the wrong impression. It’s all good.😎👋
Yeah, I'm hoping the same with this reboot of Ren and Stimpy that Bob Camp is brought in some way to help revitalize it since Billy West is coming back to do the voices.
@@Ubritoons96point is that a show is good because of the whole team not one person. It’s like how Danny phantom was fun because of the team 😅 your angry is unnecessary
The situation with Billy angers me to this day. Not only because it was disgusting on itself, but because of how manipulative John K also was, making himself *a victim* of it. And he also made his fans believe that! Like, I remember finding the footages of Billy and John from this same talk-show before the whole truth came out about J.K and people in the comment section WERE BLAMING BILLY for John's misfortunes and called him a horrible person. And this freaking grown-ass abuser and predator sits there in the spotlight trashing Billy (who is visually so nervous and uncomfortable) and bragging how one of his characters is "hot" and "underaged, too". *AND HE WAS TREATED AS A VICTIM* and gained support and sympathy. Ew, disgusting much?!
@@smart.but.stupidI saw an old Reddit post years ago on that sort of interview, with the comments taking John’s side and bashing Billy long before John was exposed. Knowing what we know now, it really goes to show how manipulative John really was.
@@capncookie1110 oh, I saw this post too, I know exactly what you're talking about. It's just so unfair, poor Billy had his share of pain, but all ends well, I suppose?
Something I've realized while watching this is that Jhonen Vasquez is honestly an amazing example of the kind of creator you'd want john k to be. The lack of sanitization of the work despite its presumably child audience, due to the understanding that kids can handle mature subject matter. Honestly, this has actually given me an even deeper appreciation of Jhonen, because him just being a genuinely great and likable guy who just likes weird and horrific stuff in media is like... He's an example of a creator that we can't really take for granted when there are people like John K souring the pool of examples.
I agree, Jhonen Vasquez always had such an interesting "dark" and "edgy" image of him but is a really cool and sweet guy from what people said about him.
I completely agree with you two. Jhonen really seems like a genuine guy who also has a dark sense of humor, but doesn’t make people feel lesser than by thinking that he’s a genius who can do no wrong I tune into Jhonen’s Twitch streams and he still has a solid relationship with Rikki Simons (the voice of GIR and his comic’s, I Feel Sick, colorist) and Richard Horvitz (the voice of Zim) even after all these years, with both of them having positive things to say about him Jhonen would sometimes go into the 3D animators room to see the kind of things they would create and said how he was always blown away by their work. He definitely encouraged his crew instead of tearing them down In fact, the Invader Zim crew was quite comfortable with each other from what I could tell as they would poke fun at other members: the Tallest constantly snack because Jhonen would bring snacks into work, the writers (Jhonen included) and animators made Rikki’s car get crushed in one episode because everyone thought the car was ugly and Rikki wouldn’t stop talking about it, a reference sheet that was given to someone to pass it out to the artists had Jhonen jokingly saying at the end “Thanks! You’re fired,”because the artists weren’t getting the style correct (though wouldn’t put the fact something like that would be genuine past John) It makes Zim’s cancellation all the more tragic as the people behind the show built such strong bonds with each other that are still there to this day. It’s clear that the IZ crew, including Jhonen, really cared about each other But at least when Ren and Stimpy was cancelled, the crew was freed from an abusive environment. I hope the Ren and Stimpy crew are doing better these days
A story I heard about IZ's production was apparently some of the higher ups at Nickelodeon found Dib really annoying, and wanted him gone from the show. So a memo started circulating to make Dib funnier because "He's Jhonen's favourite character! He'll be sad if he's gone". And like, that's a silly thing but I think shows how liked Jhonen must have been with the crew for them to rally around making sure he wouldn't be sad. I feel that says a lot about how well he must have gotten on with everyone. (Also apologies if I got any details of this wrong. It was a post I saw ages back, and I haven't seen the show myself. Will happily correct details if there are any)
@@emilystewart6175 as far as I remember when Jhonen was told to remove some features from the show/script, he was really patient with the executives and his argument always was - "but it's FUNNY" Lmao I found it so sweet, honestly. Jhonen and IZ were too good for Nickelodeon
Honestly my favorite creation from him was JtHM. He is such a cool guy and made my favorite comic ever, I let people borrow it a lot and recomend buying it if we are too far away. People are always like Oh yeah I recognize this style.
This is a great video on such a fascinating topic. To add my own two cents: about four or five years ago, my dad and I got to talk to Bob Camp at a convention. To our surprise, he happily found time to talk to the two of us for a while. This delighted my dad, who's a huge Ren and Stimpy fan. We had already known all the shitty stuff about John K, but it was another thing entirely to hear Bob Camp absolutely spill the tea about him, complaining about how John K had worked everyone to the bone, and how the controversy surrounding K grooming young women had made Nick stop airing reruns of Ren and Stimpy. I got my first real look at how the people who were directly affected by John K held no fondness for him, and the extent of the bridges he'd burned. Additional fact that I hope I'm remembering correctly: My dad, who's also a huge Frank Zappa fan, asked Camp if he got to meet Zappa because of the latter's cameo in a Powdered Toast Man segment. Camp said that he had really REALLY wanted to meet Zappa, but John K had kept him and every other interested artist at their desks to finish work.
I definitely always noticed the deliberately intimidating male authority figures when watching this show as a kid and how they do represent how many adults do make a kid feel. It spoke to me and my own experiences. Didn't really give thought at the time to what it suggested about the experiences of the writers/artists/directors though. Partly because I was just a kid but I also just thought pretty much everyone had people like that in their lives and it was more universal.
There's always one person in your life who towers over you and makes you feel uncomfortable, but part of art is interpretation and the observation of those people being based on John K's dad but also making people thinking of the authority figures in their lives are just as valid.
The fact that Nick tried to protect people like this twice is insane EDIT: turns out it was ALOT more than 2 EDIT 2: with new information coming to light, I'm shocked this video wasn't defending John K lmao
That brings the grand total to 4 degenerates at Nick. R&S creator, the dude with the live action shows, the dude who made awful Loudhouse, and the dude who starred in Drake and Josh.
What's sad is I'm sure there's more we aren't aware of. The industry is quick to protect nasty abusive people because they make money. It's sick and disappointing.
John K is such a hated figure in the industry, that even thirty years later, almost everyone involved in said industry says his name with dripping venom and clear disdain He got what he deserved. Edit: Also, very happy the "what ruined" series is making a comeback
I'm in a strange place when it comes to Ren & Stimpy. Intellectually, I can appreciate it as a boundary-pushing and unique animation, even if I never personally cared for it... but at the same time it singlehandedly caused SO MUCH of 90's animation to immediately start doubling and tripling down on grossout humor in an attempt to copy its success. As someone who hated that sort of thing, even as a small child, I think it may be the reason why most of my nostalgia is reserved for shows I watched in the early 00's, despite growing up in the 90's.
Yeah, I had a divided opinion of it myself for that reason. I liked the edgy non-gross stuff, but those "painting" inserts were more than a little off-putting to me.
Hollywood has ALWAYS learned the wrong lesson when it tried imitating success. See: Pop songs from Shrek, big name actors in Aladdin, the Strong Female Character in Hunger Games, the fantasy genre in general after Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. Personally waiting in anticipation for all the bad movie tropes that are gonna be born out of Barbenheimer.
I think what actually made that "Man's best friend" episode is that Ren is sick of George Liqour and their treatment. It can be traumatizing too much for Stimpy watching Ren beating up George Liqour. John Kricfalusi is hoping that this would've been another one of the masterpieces for the season. He ended up being fired from Nickelodeon later on.
There is no message in Man's Best Friend imo. I think it's just soft psychological torture p*rn, the kind of stuff that John K loves. The scene of Ren beating up George is just there to bring the episode to a "satisfying" end. Also Nickelodeon wasn't happy with George facing no consequences for his actions in his previous appearance (the Dog Show episode), the beating scene was John's twisted answer to that. He thought that was a genius move but it backfired badly.
I liked that there was a cartoon that portrayed a father figure as something to fear. It made me feel like I wasn't alone. I'm a loser, but I never abused others like John did.
John K is the very definition of a menace to society, except his terror is consolidated to the animation industry instead. The fact that this man never went to jail is the most shocking thing about his career to be honest, considering some of the alleged crimes he committed. Saberspark doesn't go into as much detail here, but blameitonjorge's video goes into much more detail on how awful his crimes were.
@@ramonandrajo6348 The guy was accused of having child porn and showing it around to people he worked with. This is the disturbing and obscene content Saberspark briefly mentioned in the video. I forget all the details with Bryd and Rice, but he did date them, have very sexually charged conversations with them, sexually assault them, take photos with them, and have sex with them (Bryd allegedly had a abortion of his child at 18). I'm probably mixing up the stories of the two women in my head a bit, but I imagine he did most of the same acts with both. Returning to the child porn bit, he would show it to his other perverted friends, as well as regular staff and ask them what they thought of it for some reason... On a related note, he specifically sought out young women to work at his animation studio (outright ignoring men when hiring), and was known to sexually harass them. There's other gross conduct on his behalf, but those were the majorly criminal acts form what I recall. This is all information from the blameitonjorge video if you're curious. This man is a predator in every sense of the word. This isn't just some angry boss with a short fuse, or a loser guy throwing around fame and money to sleep with hot women. He's far worse than that, and him claiming it was just mental illness is clearly nonsense. The man knew full-well what he was doing, and did this over several years. Apparently the statute of limitations has run out on a lot of what he did, which is why the child porn claims didn't go anywhere. You'd think they could still investigate the guy since he might still have them somewhere, but I'm not a lawyer, so all this is speculation. Everything is technically alleged (not proven in court, and whatnot), but I have no doubt that the majority of it (if not all of it) is true.
I get the feeling that John didn't realise what made Ren & Stimy work, it's the subtlety of the darker elements that make the show edgy and weird, without being outright smut or filth. When you strip away that layer of ambiguity and subtext, you're just left with gross for gross' sake. Which is what Adult Party cartoon ended up being.
Yeah. And I'm sure it'll be a pretty hilarious middle finger to the creator itself! And just a heads-up: the R&S revival will actually be heading to Paramount+ instead of Comedy Central. (According to Billy West in a recent podcast on UA-cam)
I was in college in the early 90s. I'll never forget the shockwaves Ren and Stimpy created. There were 3 cartoons that were must watch for the college crowd: The Simpsons, Beavis and Butthead, and Ren and Stimpy.
That last monologue is so, so important. Working through your pain using art is a valid strategy, it helps immensely. You can create the most disturbing art and still be kind towards people, leaving your pain on paper. What John K did to other people as an adult, the girls he creeped on and his co-workers he mistreated, cannot be excused by a traumatic childhood or bad mental health. I wish he could have received help and therapy as a kid and didn't grow up into this kind of an adult, but not many kids of that generation had the chance, and not many have it now. I am happy that the people he had hurt are continuing their careers, and that his art and characters live on, but I wish the man himself was getting professional help right now instead of ranting about Cal Arts on his blog. He's out of the industry, no more people covering up his bad deeds, it's a chance to turn on a new leaf and become a better person.
And this is what I absolutely mean. If you keep saying "animation is cinema", then act like it. Don't be like John K and tarnish your career before it begins. You need to be able to handle the responsibility of your own production, if it succeeds or not and you HAVE to expect failure, both finanically and critically, and be open to critique while being skeptical about bad faith actors, checking sources within sources. That's the biggest mistake John K ever did, was let success get to his head. Incidentially, this mirrors way too much with Street Fighter III's development cycle.
Looking back, Ren and Stimpy is a reflex of the best and worst the 90s and 2000s media had. The borderline adult humor and surreal tones was excellent and terrible at the same time.
@leociresi4292 From what I’ve read on John’s blog, apparently Ren’s meltdown and threats towards Stimpy and Sven near the end of the episode was actually based off how John’s father acted and what he said to him word for word when he came come wearing a pair of pants his father didn’t like. If that’s true, then goddamn, that old man seriously needed anger management.
@@capncookie1110I've read stuff how his dad belittled him for loving cartoons and being into animation and telling him he wasn't a real hard working man with working man hands...Visit to Anthony was inspired by his dad.
I'm glad you managed to give a spotlight to both Robyn and Katie, as well as the other people who were abused by John K at the time, there's an unfortunate lack of attention given to victims when abuse is mentioned anywhere and that needs to change so that people can support them through their struggles to heal quicker over time.
Not sure what Johnny boy was thinking blaming his actions on ADHD. Mine just makes me go "yeah, I got five hours before work, which isn't nearly enough time, and there's an entire kitchen full of dishes to do, and footage to record...but I'm going to lay on my couch and wonder if steroids exist in the Harry Potter universe". Never once has it made me go "you know what I could really go for right about now? Statutory rape".
Makes me glad I had a very, VERY healthy relationship with my dad. We didn't see each other eye to eye when it came to my art and comics, but he was supportive regardless and never hesitated to buy my pens, pencils and even helped get me my drawing tablet and even asked me for a few commissions when his workplace was hosting art contests. He sadly passed away in May this year, and while it still hurts, I'll always remember the good times. Thanks dad.
When you realize that John K modeled his personality after his “idol” Bob Clampett, who was also hated by his fellow animators and was the arch nemesis of Chuck Jones….. Well, at least Clampett isn’t a kid diddler, but that’s just basic human decency
All the animators at Warner Bros. had their fair share of problems with Chuck Jones having a far bigger ego than Clampett. Thankfully, they were all functioning members of society unlike John.
I was in high school when Ren and Stimpy aired. It used to come on on late Saturday afternoons. After seeing the first episode, I started recording the show religiously every week on VHS. Remember VHS? I remember watching "Stimpy's Invention" when it debuted. I laughed hysterically through the entire 15 minute episode, I mean I was in tears, my face turned red, then purple, then blue, my stomach literally hurt. The best damn cartoon ever, unqualified, full stop. Nothing else comes even remotely close to Ren and Stimpy. It was just so demented.
Ralph Bakshi is awesome, he wanted to be a Disney animator so he got a job as a mail boy for them......then when he saw an open desk he just sat down and started animating. There were so many people under so many levels of management that nobody cared about who he was, they just assumed he was a new hire. He was able to last several months before they caught him LOL
Somehow that makes perfect sense. Given all the bloat Disney had even before today. It's unsurprising that just some random person could sit down at an animator desk. And just start drawing and everyone would Just as As well assume it's a new employee. He literally did the fake it till you make it in real life
That's not true. He never worked for Disney. Bakshi was a cel painter for some studio who spent a couple days animating and the studio's animators vouched for him after it got him into trouble (because he should've been cel painting). I wonder where this crazy Disney rumour came from
@@acex222This SERIOUSLY sounds like a variation on the mythic fib early 1970s Steven Spielberg perpetuated about having snuck into a studio lot, walking around in a suit carrying a briefcase pretending he worked there, eventually finding an empty office & spending a couple months acting as if it was rightfully his, putting signage up on the door of the room.
@acex222 It's what he said in a documentary. He could have been lying, I'll admit that. It wouldn't be the first time someone lied to seem more special. Either way, he ended up pretty influential as far as animators go and made some pretty awesome films. He made some really bad ones, too lol
Honestly, John K needs some serious therapy and time in prison. I can't imagine the stress, anger,rage, resentment from his staff. At the same time. I can't believe no one ever spoke about his abuse to the victims. Sounds like everyone there was toxic.
What ruined Ren & Stimpy was simple: it was let off the leash. Like most things "edgy, " getting around the restrictions was where the humor was. Once they had no restrictions, there was no reason to watch.
The weird thing is his career kind of is the opposite of one of the guys he idolised, Ralph Bakshi was more popular with his adult films, Fritz the Cat, Heavy Traffic and Coonskin but got less popularity from his family friendly films or his attempts at adult animation in the 80's. Basically for his first three films he had a lot of creative freedom, and when it got to his family friendly films he started to get less creative freedom to write and direct the films. I think for him it was more so, he actually had things to say with his animation, like the ridiculousness of racism in America in the 70's and basically satirizing works of popular culture at the time that were just inherently racist.
Sometimes the restraints are what make something great. Compare shows made for younger audiences like Avatar or Adventure Time to shows like Velma and Family Guy. The adult moments hit harder because the writers need to be clever about it and present it in a way that will keep the kids enticed. Shows like Velma and Family Guy will have mature subject matter (violence, gore, drugs, sex, etc.) just for the sake of it with no substance. Adult shows like that feel like they're written by loser, edgy 13 year-olds that hung around adult sides of the internet for too long. Subject matter is as vast as a lake, but has the depth of a puddle.
@@flarestorm9417The only few Adult show in the 90s were dark and edgy but very mature, serious treated adults like actual adults like Aeon Flux, Spicy City (by Ralph Bakshi), The Maxx and Spawn. Funny enough Bojack Horseman were follow the same trend as modern adult comedy cartoon at first but slowly become more mature, drama, serious and interesting, Castlevania series were the good stuff despite Warren Ellis controversy.
I've kinda learned that dealing with any form of artist (writing, drawing, photography, etc.) is like walking a tight rope. Creativity almost universally comes from some level of pain, and some people are better at hiding it than others. It's fine to talk to creators, or even to admire them for what they do... but always make sure you are respecting yourself. Just like how an abused child can easily become an abuser, these pained people can inflict that same pain upon you (sometimes without even realizing it). Keep your wits about you and don't fall off either side of that tight rope. I've met some awesome artists who draw the weirdest stuff, but are totally chill people when you actually talk to them... but I've also met some artists who become so egotistical by their own creations that they completely neglect the people who care about them, or are just assholes for no reason. People who I thought were good friends were really just looking for attention, and didn't care at all about other people. Keep your wits about you, know what is and is not okay in your life, and be prepared to move on from troublesome people. We all try to cling to things that are precious to us, including relationships... but no single person, creator or otherwise, is worth losing yourself or your self respect over. Just like when the rope starts to wobble a little, maintain your balance and get to the other side safely. Don't take a fall just because you want it to work.
Yeah. By pain and compulsion. I woudl give everything to getting rid of this annoying urge for creativity. Luckily i cant lose my self respect... i never had any in the first place xD
John K is one of many, many, many individuals who have escaped justice due to being famous and rich - disgusting! And tragic as many of these individuals are talented, and have created groundbreaking works. It's all ruined, however, by their despicable actions.
Sounds like that to Win his Fathers Approval, he ended up basically becoming a version of his father to his co-workers. I think also the reason why he had such a massive reaction to that episode being banned was because it showed his own childhood and was very very personal to him. Like he was showing and exploring his own childhood abuse. To have that be denied in the creative space must of been a massive blow.
Outside of John K's "fetishes," Adult Party was the show that made people realize that he is a creative hack when given free reign and that the real reason the original was successful was that he had people like Bob Camp to help him out with the writing, as well as the restrictions from Nickelodeon that helped the crew be more creative with their jokes. This is one of the few examples of a creator given full reign of his work, only to then destroy not only his reputation for all time, but the reputation of his characters for nearly 20 years.
@@urmomshome230 While it is true that fans had problem with seasons 3 to 5 of R&S, thats just the downside of Nick not allowing delays. If they did, then the new writers could have done something good without John K.
George Lucas comes to mind as a similar story arc. Though as far as I know that's just down to Lucas's stupid story ideas, not being an actual monster like John K. It sucks when a group manages to catch lightening in a bottle but the guy in control ultimately ruins it.
@@Caldwing Lucas's story ideas in his six films aren't stupid, imo. Also, he has more creativity in his finger tips on his own compared to creepy John.
@@tyrannozilla Are we talking about the same George Lucas here? George "Darth Icky" Lucas? George "Jar Jar Binks" Lucas? He has the mind of a child and the franchise has only suffered anytime he was given unrestricted creative control. Heh funny that it got even worse after he left though, just in a different way.
Just a heads up, you ignored why the studio said they fired John K. John said Man's Best Friend is why he got fired, the studio said John K's response to them demanding him meet deadlines and stop going over budget was "The Episodes will Take as long as they need to take, and cost as much as they need to cost". The studio fired him in response to that.
😮 The sad thing is, unfortunately. John was correct. If you want good animation, that's done fluid. And in a way that doesn't seem stilted and stunted. And re cut a hundred times over That takes time and effort. And also the money. For the supplies for the animators required since this took place in a day Before the advent of online computer animation program such as toonboon. He was correct in his idea. He just went about explaining it to the company in a really bad way. Then again, it seems any time that he did anything that did not involve just shutting up Sitting down and drawing. Resulted in a disaster when it came to john.
Story: I had an art teacher in high school who was a huge fan of Ren and Stimpy. He spoke just like Mr. Horse and allowed me to draw Ren and Stimpy in the yearbook graduating.
As a kid I counted John K as one of my heroes. He is a large part of why I love animation as an artform. I had the first four Wild Cartoon Kingdom magazines and read and reread the articles about how "evil" and "restrictive" Nickelodeon was. I was broken when I read that Buzzfeed article, found out what kind of scumbag he was, and what he did to those poor girls. Thanks for doing this video, people need to know about this disgusting behavior.
I also totally bought into Wild Cartoon Kingdom as a kid. Looking back, if nothintg else the fact that the first issue reviewed Animaniacs without bothering to watch it and called it worthless should have been a red flag. I loved Animaniacs too! I could clearly see that Animaniacs was a very good show most of the time. I should have also seen that WCC was full of it just from that.
@@gooaygar How the fck do I separate Wild Cartoon Kingdom from "the artist" when it was literally propaganda elevating the artist and attacking his enemies?
He is an open secret Almost nobody dares to talk about ren and stimpy because of him because they always get reminded of him Even max g (hot diggity demon UA-cam channel) said that he took inspiration from him along side Craig McCracken but also acknowledged that John k was a monster
@@gooaygar I don't have to separate the two. We have to remember that it wasn't just John K, but a whole team working on this project and made it what it was. It wouldn't be fair to the many other talented artists that one guy tainted the whole thing.
Billy West used to work for Boston radio station WBCN back in the 80s and his bits are legendary. Such a talented guy. It was cool to see he went on to bigger things
I think I got a good quote for this. "You either die a hero or live long enough to become a villain" or to put it bluntly in this context "You either finish strong as the good guy or fight back long enough to be the bad guy".
You can be a great artist and still a terrible, disgusting person that just so happened to make good art. I could name at least five artists that fit that description.
Even before all of his sick abuses, I had soured on John K. after learning about his propensity for sh*tting on other animators (namely the team on Animaniacs) for no discernable reason.
I'm thinking that maybe his perfectionist tendencies that led to episodes not coming out on time may be coming into play here, with studios being able to actually put stuff out on time
Back in the day it was rough to hear Billy West call John K an "amateur human being." Now I know he was being kind, and by bowing out of the reboot he picked the absolute perfect time to jump ship.
I remember when Stern tricked them both into the radio studio one day and tried to instigate drama. John K wanted Billy West to apologize for not quitting Ren & after being forced out. Bill held his ground and definitely came out as the reasonable, sane one of the duo.
@@brianmurphy250 These days, it's hard to believe, but Howard Stern did a 360 on his fans and went super woke/left-wing which is a complete opposite of the sexist pervert he was on his old radio and TV show back in the 1990's. He nowadays would demand vaccinations for Covid victims and raise silly arguments with Bill Maher, who is his on again, off again best friend. The fact that he tricked Billy West with John K. has got to be one of Howie's more low-sinking moments in mean spiritedness, and he did it for cheap laughs.
@@Superabound2 couldn’t say….it’s on UA-cam here….easy to check. His station manager in NYC would have bleeped it out if it had happened. When I listened to him the FCC was in full lockdown after the Janet Jackson mess. Watching Old Howie slowly morph to the present day PC Howie shows the heights of hypocrisy one will go thru to stay relevant. The guy is so afraid of being cancelled now it just sad.
This was a good watch. I think one thing you overlooked at the end when speaking about separating the art from the artist and whether you could continue to enjoy the show knowing the history is all the other talent that made the show what it was. So many people contributed to the show and to write it off because of the behaviour of the creator, is to minimise the work done by everyone else. Especially since we know what Ren and Stimpy without the tempering influence of the others involved looked like (terrible).
This. I grew up watching Ren and Stimpy, and those grotesque stills are easily one of my favorite animation tropes. I don't think it's necessary to nuke the entirety of his existence from history. There's enough of that kind of thing going on in the world today. People canceling someone, often over allegations without any kind of due process, does more harm than good. I'm not going to apologize or pretend I never enjoyed a TV show as a kid just because the guy making it made some... Colorful life choices. The guy had issues. A lot of people do. It takes a village, folks. Be the parent your children need before someone else exploits that kind of vulnerability.
IMHO, "Man's Best Friend" was a revenge fantasy against his abusive father. When Nickelodeon gave him the no-go, he felt his vengeance was being denied. All the other times Nickelodeon told him "no", he grudgingly accepted it and just made changes. But this time? He wasn't going to take "no" for an answer this time.
Not so fun fact: John K not only got his abusive and narcissistic behavior from his father, but also his predatory ways. On his blog, he creepily brags about how his father used to constantly hit on his girlfriends and even his friends’ girlfriends when they were young teens. Showing off his body and strength while shirtless, making the boys look bad so the girls would leave them for the 40 year old man, you get the idea. Not only that, but his father also snuck playboy magazines in his room for him to find when he was eleven years old out of fear he’d turn gay. John never found out where the magazines came from until his father drunkenly confessed to him as an adult that he was the one who put them there. Of course, this made John K grow up believing that kind of shit was normal and socially acceptable, which is why he was so creepily open about his sexual appeal towards underage girls in the animation industry.
It's not an excuse, but John K. grew up in the 60s. His father was definitely from a time when 13-16 year old girls got married to older guys, the age of consent laws in some states were 14. It was not okay, and we definitely know it as an issue nowadays. But John K. was a functioning adult in the 70s and 80s and should have LONG known that the way a man from the 1920s acted towards girls was NOT OKAY. Instead, John treated it like it was funny. Like what men did from that time period was normal.
There’s a similar problem I notice with John K and Richard Williams is now both have a goal of perfection and it hurts their projects with Ren and Stimpy having missing deadlines and The Thief/Cobbler having an infamous 30 year development cycle.
@@ricardocantoral7672 I would not, actually. Thad's book is some of the most excellent amount of fencesitting I've ever seen. He wanted to out John for his behavior, but it feels like half the time his love of these characters takes over. Like he can't tell if he wants to screw 'em or screw 'em.
One thing I can say about Ren and Stimpy is at least the rest of the crew had a huge hand in what DID get through, particularly in the Games Animations era. Hell, some of the Games episodes even poked fun at and satirized John K's antics, Stimpy's Cartoon being one of them. I wonder how the recent reboot will end up turning out. Honestly, I wonder how Weird Al feels about John K after the allegations came out since John K worked on his Close But No Cigar music video. Same with Bjork since he also did the I Miss You mv, how did she react?
I'm beginning to think John K is like the Bojack Horseman of thr entertainment industry as a whole. Both of them suffering with generational trauma, burned alot of bridges to those they worked at, and both had narcissistic tendencies which in turn could do more damage in the long term. Its more disturbing than you think when both of them rise and fall in the process. Great video, as always Saberspark!
And here i was thinking self insert charecters were newer, but john did a self insert with Ren back in the 90s. I guess i owe Mindy Kaling an apology about Velma... ... on second thought, no, no i dont. In fact, she owes all of a humanity an apology for that abomination of non-creation.
At least Mindy Kaling isn't a rap*ist I think people didn't form their own opinions on Velma, tbh. Everyone was "hate watching" it and parroting each other. Some fo the jokes were actually funny. At least I thought so. Plus if it had been executed in a better way, it had a pretty good plot.
The 90s? Let me introduce you to a little story titled "Dante's Inferno". Anyway, yeah, self-insert characters have likely been around since the dawn of storytelling.
Ren and Stimpy was probably one of the first exposures I had to the world. My mom and dad would watch it together when my mom was pregnant with me and apparently it would cause my dad to laugh so hard that I would start wildly kicking my mom. When I was a little older my dad would share his passion for the show with me in the 2000s, and my reaction to it was more or less spot on with how you described the show. I never got super into it, but it was certainly an experience and one of the few ways my dad and I bonded. Now as someone who has a deep interest in animation and the process, it pains me to hear the sadism that went into this project, and what John really wanted the series to be. Oh well. Cringy edgelords existed in the 90s too, I guess.
One thing I think would be cool is if Saberspark did an exploration of the career of Ralph Bakshi, the first prominent adult animation director in the US and how he was also one of the only directors who actually treated animation on par with live action often combining the two.
John K let his past past traumas and anger consume him, turning him into something that is far to irredeemable to sympathize with. I just hope future creators can learn What not to do when using creativity...and become what John K had become, and what he had lost in the process.
An interesting watch is the 1995 Howard stern interview between John K and Billy West. You could cut the tension with a knife. John thought when he got fired if Billy West stood by his side they could of fought Nickelodeon and won. He was at least looking for Billy to be apologetic which he wasn’t and even cracked jokes at the situation.
Ren and Stimpy was most likely the last American TV cartoon produced almost entirely in-house. Which, in a way, is kind of sad. Everything since then has been outsourced to korea or canada
Actually apparently carbunkle, a Canadian studio, animated many of the inbetween frames, which I wasn’t aware of. Though they did a great job so hey whatever
This cartoon WAS my childhood, so you can imagine how heartbroken I was when I found out how much of a monster John K really is. I learned the real story about two years ago and haven’t watched a minute of the show since.
Yeah. I only discovered Ren and Stimpy through that banned episode called "Man's Best Friend", but I never knew the backstory of the creator until two of the victims called him out for what he had done. That doesn't help about the "Cans Without Labels" short that becomes his ultimate downfall.
That is so dillusional when you consider he was undiagnosed and in an era where stuff like that was not very well understood let alone normalized. If you read Johns response it's pretty clear that he didn't understand the pain he was causing. This radical dismissial of anyone who causes pain is so draconian. Especially when it comes to art. John was a pioneer at the cutting edge of the industry. Throughout art history, people who pioneer new concepts were often very socially maladjusted. They hut themselves and the people around them because they were literally creating something from nothing. There thousands of years of examples of this sort of thing and the great art is produces. To hand wave it away really is the most entitield and gate keeping thing ever.
@@HalEmmerich-cc6rk If he knows has a personality disorder caused by his upbringing ( I believe you're talking about that because ADHD and bipolar don't cause you to have a lack of empathy ) then he should seek help and try to be a better person, and I don't see any change. I'm talking about doing something now. But I don't think no one told him that he's being a raging abusive asshole back in the 90's. He isn't blind to things he does. He's actively enjoying it.
I recall Henry Rollins expressing a similar sentiment years ago, saying something like 'if great art is only born through suffering, I think we can do without.'
@@HalEmmerich-cc6rk You do realize you can enjoy art someone creates and hate the person that made it at the same time for being a sexual predator that groomed underaged girls, right?
Even when I was a kid, I never, ever liked Ren and Stimpy. I like grotesque cartoons, especially ones that pushed the limit. Always had since childhood. Hell, my parents let me watch movies such as Austin Powers when I was 4 (not animated, but I think the humour aligns the same). At 6, I watched Howard the Duck. Loved them. Still love them as an adult, and appreciate them more now that I get more of the humour- even if Howard the Duck, in particular, is not a cinematic masterpiece by ANY standard. Yet Ren and Stimpy ALWAYS unsettled me. Even frightened me at times. Whenever it came on TV, I would try to watch it- because everyone was- and when the authoritative humour came on, or the "mentally ill and unhappy" humour, I would literally cry. Even as a teenager. As a young adult, around 22 years of age, I got diagnosed with PTSD (which some states would call my type CPTSD- my state just does not recognize CPTSD and PTSD as separate mental illnesses yet) as result of severe childhood abuse from both parents. Authoritative Abuse from my father- mentally and physically; and Negligence from my mother- mentally and physically. Even with this diagnosis, I still never understood, even in adulthood now, why I cannot enjoy Ren and Stimpy. Especially since I do like cartoons that align with a similar mindset- such as Fritz the Cat and American Pop (in fact, I love Ralph Bakshi's work, even the movies he made that were far more bizarre and lesser known than those two- like Wizards). After watching this, I actually understand now why it has always bothered me. It hit home in very honest ways like American Pop, but not in a graceful manner like that movie. It showcased a character (Ren) who became nearly identical in nature to the very authoritative characters who were abusing him without addressing HOW that can happen and WHY it happens. And rather than framing him as a character in the wrong, they framed him as endearing (and we see why, obviously, as Ren is clearly a self-insert). And THAT is why I HATED, and STILL HATE Ren and Stimpy. Because Mental Illness is no excuse for shitty behaviour, and I despise when it is used as an excuse or framed as an excuse in a non-satirical manner. Media like that is why, I think, many adults, during that time, thought that cartoons and video games caused violence. That mental illness is not an illness needing addressing and healing, but a behaviour problem needing authoritative correction and general disregard of "sissy" needs. A mindset that continued until maybe about 2010(?), but has clearly, in my opinion, decline since then (a good thing since cartoons and videogames definitely DO NOT cause violent behaviour). A mindset that was damaging to children, childhood, and the truly mentally ill. Anyways, that is the end of my rant. Sorry for that tangent lol. I have just always been so passionate about my distaste for Ren and Stimpy without realizing why, and now that I have this context, I really get it now lol.
It triggers your cptsd bc Ren and Stimpy have a highly abusive relationship. Ren is abusive in every way to Stimpy but Stimpy loves him to death all the same. Their codependency is pretty toxic. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the quality art and satire of it all but I don't think it's healthy for you to watch is all. ❤
@@ariadneschild8460, yes, I knew it triggered me for a while tho, but never understood what about it did until I watched this video lol. It makes sense now. There were many times I tried watching it- different episodes and whatnot too just to see if it was only certain ones. But I was never able to do it, and I have a great distaste for it even now as well. Just not for me.
Holy hell, we have almost identical experiences with this series. I have PTSD from childhood abuse and, despite young me loving grotesque media like Invader Zim and Creepypasta, I tried watching the show ONCE as an eight year old and turned it off within the first few minutes. It just felt so damn meanspirited in a way that was too close to home
@@wetsockfullofhotmeat , sadly, I do not think the experience is all too uncommon. I know quite a few people who have had similar experiences (though, not necessarily the same reaction toward the show). Digressing, I absolutely loved shows like Invader Zim growing up too. But this one- Ren and Stimpy- just could not handle it. And, to memory, I do not think I seen any show that gave me such a visceral reaction to date. Even when watching this video, seeing the imagery and kinda being reminded of it was OOF. Not quite triggering, but definitely made me feel sick in the sort of way one might with a level of depression or anxiety.
Dude as someone who's studying psych at one of the top universities in the US, I can tell you right now that bipolar and ADHD do not make it impossible to control your whims. The combo may make hyperfixations really, really interesting and motivating to pursue but you always keep control of your actions. Even bipolar people who go into depressive states can still differentiate and act between right and wrong
@@Beer_Dad1975that buzzfeed article was the one way that the victims Katie and Robyn could get their story out. John has some weird shit that he didn't delete on his Twitter that proves that did this creepy stuff to them. His blogspot has the evidence of his intentions as well. It was also unfortunately an open secret.
one symptom of a mania _is_ hypersexuality but you still have a moral compass, it doesn't change your tastes or what attracts you, and it doesn't make you seek out a partner. these were sustained "relationships", far exceeding the length of time of a manic episode anyway. ADHD as an excuse doesn't make sense at all.
@@goreweeb4566It's still the court of public opinion though isn't it, and the hyper-emotive language he uses in the video makes it clear he's not being objective. I guess UA-cam isn't journalism so I should lower my expectations.
@@Beer_Dad1975this video and channel is literal vomit, as in regurgitation. Wonder what would happen if all these plagiarizing amateur psychiatrists would find if they looked in the mirror, or looked at this saber guy under a microscope. I’m not defending Jon K, no need, he’s fast to admit his guilt. But everyone loves a riches to shit story so much nowadays they just whisper down the lane until every fucked up person becomes an absolute monster in the eyes of the casual passerby. I just hate sitting by watching “content creators” make their bones by tearing apart the very same name recognition that allows their channel any traffic. Sorry to spew this as a reply but it was on my mind and you were the first commenter after scrolling through dozens that wasn’t just jumping on the villagers with pitchforks train.
You know that kind of trauma as a kid really does explain alot of ren and stimpy and what made it so uncomfortable with me. Like it has been said though doesnt excuse his awful actions. Overall between him and Butch Hartman I think its important to give more credit to the rest of the teams behind cartoons. Side not not exactly ren and stimpy related but john also did a kickstarter that went bad you might want to look into.
Saber I'm surprised you didn't mention that whole "Cans without labels" fiasco that REALLY did a hit on John K's reputation with fans. A lot of people were angry about his departure that when he did came back and promised fans a pilot on GoFundMe and pretty much took thousands in donations, tooks decades to make and never even finished the episode which he promised to eagerly supporting fans. If I remember correctly he had no leg to stand on as he lost a lot of supporters. Someone correct me if I messed up info in that.
It's so much worse than that. He also promised a secondary short featuring his character Sody Pop, a character who was a literal jailbait fetish character. It got cancelled because of.... obvious reasons..... but it also got to the point where his backers had to harass him endlessly to finish it because he literally decided he didn't feel like doing it any more.
This is why you tend to find the best jokes that push the line in non-adult shows. Adult shows that can get away with anything don't have to be clever with how they handle mature subject matter, which often results in lazy writing.
One of the fun trivia notes about the animation style choice. The creator made it a artist rule to not use the same facial expressions with the characters through our the show's run. It was to encourage something new and creative with each scene produced. That's why the show is known for it's such extreme moderate tone with the animation expressions.
@@ricardocantoral7672 I was raised in a very religious household so for me it was anything that had magic, monsters, aliens, superheroes, or humans and animals talking to each other in it was banned as they were all against God. Also wasn't allowed to watch The Simpsons because that was an "adult" cartoon
@@x-mobius0ne that last one doesnt make sense... i never read the bible but doesnt a snake tell adam and eve to eat a bad apple? animals and humans talking to eachother was literally a key part of the bible
"You would think having more artistic freedom would make a better show, but surprisingly the network interference and censorship actually helped keep the humor" Believe it or not, producers, networks, and executives often improve the quality of media. The "artist's vision" is often flexible and can be improved. Movie and show production is a team effort of sharing ideas between writers, directors, producers, etc. Think about what happened to the Star Wars prequels when George Lucas was given full control. Or in this case, John K with Ren and Stimpy.
Yeah, but I think I can go too far. If its too safe or too preachy like a lot of todays shows have become, then it's also terrible. Not to mention, I'm just tired of youtubers bleeping words, saying phrase like the poke, toaster bath, snuggle struggle, or bad guys from ww2, because we "must protect the kids" when youtube has a whole seperate platform for friggen kids. Hearing about POS going to jail because of struggle snuggling is just insulting to victims of SA too, it almost like mocking them, even though i know thats not what the creators are doing, not intentionally anyways. But i bet if i asked a SA victim if they have ever had to confront their snuggle struggler, they'd slap the shit outta me for mocking them. I think it's all about balance, which pretty much applied to everything in life honestly.
@@Cman04092 Oh I absolutely agree that there needs to be a balance. Movies with strictly profit motives or too much studio changes/demands have ruined way too many movies. We should be careful not to oversimplify reality, the real world is very complicated and nuanced. Studios can ruin projects, improve projects, or even both at the same time. And there is content being made today by studios that's trying too hard to be safe or preachy, there's also artistic creators that are trying too hard to be safe or preachy (cough cough Santa Inc.) But there's also amazing content that's some of the best media being made. Also, while shows like Arcane or Watchmen 2019 can push envelopes, we shouldn't discount shows like Hilda or Bluey just because they're "safe for kids." So to recap: Studios can make things better or they can make them worse. Artistic visions can be inherently good or bad. Safe or preachy can be good or bad. Edgy and political can also be good or bad. I think the best way to approach things is talk about specific examples, like "in this show, I think the studio should have had more oversight so they could've helped make the best version of the artist's vision as possible."
@@Cman04092 I've seen plenty of UA-camrs use the actual words, sometimes even in their video titles, without getting demonetized. The ones censoring themselves are just overreacting and blaming the platform for it. I wrote for a UA-cam channel, and the reality is that the censorship is automated and can feel pretty random, so people just censor themselves to hell because they expect the worst. This one's egregious because the dude's like "I won't talk about it because of some fake restrictions I made up, so go read a BUZZFEED ARTICLE." Like jfc, referring someone to an expose on fucking Buzzfeed feels like a joke you'd see on Bojack Horseman.
That's incredibly and hilariously ironic, because back in the mid-1990's, John K. infamously gave a scathing anonymous review about the original Animaniacs claiming it was "made by people who couldn't draw." Now one of his victims ended up working on the reboot of the show he so hated.
I think John is a good example of what I hate about the misconceptions about "the cycle of abuse". Abused people don't necessarily become abusers BECAUSE they were abused, at the end of the day, it's still a choice. You still choose whether you want to be a good person or a bad person. The pain and influences of your past may create certain struggles on that journey, but that doesn't excuse you from making that choice. Because of my horrible childhood, I understand emotional manipulation, I understand how to emotionally control others, and in fact I know I have the capacity to be very good at it, and every day I make the choice NOT to do that. Do I struggle with that sometimes and find myself falling into those patterns because it's easy? Yes. But is it still my choice to turn away from that at the end of the day? Yes. The pain of his past is tragic and I am so sorry for him for that, but that is no excuse for him to pass that pain on to others. Ever.
If it is truly your choice to avoid emotionally manipulating others, and you know it's bad for you to that, why don't you avoid emotionally manipulating others all the time? Why must you fall into those patterns if it really is up to you?
@@thagodwecreate5179 Yes but unless people see therapy, it's very hard to due that your self. Making Ren and Stimpy defiantly made him happy, but thats not enough to give him the will power to break the cycle. Especially if the show is hard to work on.
@orangeslash1667 well said I've been in therapy many times. I've detoxed dozens of times. Rehabs. Breathing ex, exercising ext I try really hard but the depression is relentless. No meds other than opiates have worked hence the chronic relapsing. I'm going to continue trying. Thank you for your comment. Apprec it. Peace n Love
I am disappointed in him, he is Canadian and animator (both things that I am), as well as the creator of one of the most influential cartoons no less. He could have been someone I could look up to.
Funny how pain can make people react in two polar opposite ways. Some people pass that pain onto others, while others (like Robin Williams and Keanu Reeves) use their resources to help those around them, because they don't want others to suffer like they do. I notice this in my every day life too. Trauma can bring out the best or the worst in people, and I really respect the people who break the cycle and try to make the world around them a better place.
Same with being disabled. It either makes you more sympathetic to the issues of others, or it makes you bitter and nasty. I’ve seen both. I’m disabled myself. The loneliness and frustration can make people very bitter.
@@Wolfie54545 It’s kind of wild card from what I’ve seen. There are people who choose either break the cycle of abuse or continue it. They can either come out good or bad, and John came out bad.
Eh. You're painting with too broad a brush. People who are the focal point of VIOLENCE act like John K. That's not the same type of pain Williams and Reeves had to endure. It's not about better or worse, it's about the nature of the experience. It's not even debatable at this point; people, and especially children who are the subjects of physical violence and emotional manipulation do tend to behave that way when they get older. We know FOR A FACT that experiencing this type of abuse causes PHYSICAL, MEASURABLE CHANGES to the brain. It's a very difficult matter to weigh, requiring us to wade through a hell of a lot of nuance if we want to understand the phenomenon accurately, and I'm also NOT saying that this just magically erases a victim's own responsibility for their own actions. But any interpretation of this scenario that does not recognize and adjust for the fact that abuse survivors are in a very literal sense brain damaged is, in itself, a further form of abuse.
@@CharlesWorkPPL Example: All in The Family's opening was done because their was no budget for a full orchestra. That simple opening with Archie and Edith is regarded as one of the most famous in TV history. All because of a lack of money!
@@ricardocantoral7672 Also, there are a lot of examples of big studio movies and shows using improvised props. "Aliens" used repainted Transformers Shockwave figures as part of the set, and an episode of Star Trek Next Generation featured Nintendo Power magazine binders with the logo covered. I love your Fester's Quest profile pic, by the way.
Ren & Stimpy was literally the only cartoon my mother would not let me watch as a kid. She basically thought it was disgusting, and well, she's not wrong. lol
Same here. I caught some episodes in college and watched. I called Mom after: "Mom, I wanted to let you know you were right not to let me watch Ren & Stimpy. That show is foul."
I gotta admit, this video was the first time I'd ever heard of John K.'s childhood. I knew from other creators that he was a highly controversial and not well-liked person, and while a very small part of me feels bad about his upbringing, that gets completely washed away when his crimes get taken into account. Like, I'm mildly sorry that happened to him, but it doesn't excuse all of the heinous shit he'd later go on to do.
it explain where it comes from. sadly some people that are abused become the abuser as they never win against their past trauma. some sink themself in self loathing, self hate, addiction, self harm or killing themself, then you have people that find help and get better or be able to live while struggling with their traumas. john k is a example of someone that instead of trying to move on from his abuse, he just kept trying to impress his abuser. nothing worse than a lost soul trying to seek approval and love from someone that hate you. this doesnt excuse john k from harming others, but it make alot of sense why he is the way he is. is a shame he never got the proper attention he needed in his life.
I use to work with a guy who was an animator on Ren and Stimpy and worked on like 5 episodes. (Episodes 2-6 of Season 1). He also worked on George Strinks, Little Bear, Hercules, Pepper Ann, The Raccoons and a bunch of other cartoons. He ended up retiring from animating in 2003 and I worked with him at a Radio station in Alberta. He was a pretty cool guy, a little weird but it was very awesome meeting someone who worked on some of the cartoons I watched as a child.
When Bob Camp took over, the high highs and low lows were gone, but something of the spirit remained. I’m pretty sure Wilbur Cobb was a post S2 creation that I always found absolutely hilarious. Also I think Billy West was able to explain to expand on Ren’s voice character a bit. He never was able to hit space madness levels of greatness but he got close. All in all I think the later seasons were as good as they could be. Also feel like there was a little bit of a Dan Harmon/Justin Roiland sort of situation between Bob and John. I don’t know if fire dogs pt 2 was extra unhinged because of John being bitter or whatever but if that was what he would have done on his own Ren and Stimoy would never have come into existence. The tempering influence of others can be a real blessing. Edit: I actually wrote this before you mentioned Roiland at the end. It’s definitely an apt comparison. 👌
When I was studying animation in college, I had a prof who worked with John K. and told us about this "open secret" (among some other really gross "norms" in the industry at the time). I naively thought that something was done about it back then based on the way he spoke about it. When the two girls finally spoke out about things, I was deeply appalled, because I knew even before getting to that part of the story, that people knew about this abuse and did nothing about it. Apart from that, all the profs in my animation course seemed to think the same thing of John K.: The man was an asshole on so many levels, but he was talented, so they let it slide. Always. Hated that mentality then. Hate it now. That said, I am not blind to the influence John K. brought to the animation world, and it does make sense why his work did that. I just personally *never* liked the guy based on *everything* I heard about him from people who had either worked with or met him in person.
Corruption of power and greed. In a place where they accept it as long is at satisfies their greed. The amount of crimes Hollywood, and the media industrial complex have covered up about the world in general pales in comparison to the amount of crimes they covered up crimes they witnessed, and knew about for years. Even when it started to break with MeToo, the same narcissistic intentions surfaced by there being people that lie about what happened to them for money, and fame. The era of negativity farming, and outrage farming for faux victims, which essentially destroys the entire point of the movement. It wasn't done for disgust at the lack of humanity, and empathy for victims at all. It became a political weapon, like we're seeing on a worldwide level.
I saw some clips of this show as a kid and was already traumatized by that one scene where we see Ren's bite from the mosquito. This show's insanity definitely reflects its creator, even if it is unintentional.
@@LexYeen Not to mention that disturbing creative output usually doesn't reflect on the author at all. By that logic Junji Ito would be one of the most deranged people on the planet. John K. is just an abusive asshole, with or without his show.
@@ninjatoriumnova2483Junji Ito probably is deranged but his manga is his therapeutic outlet so his derangement is contained to the art panels so to speak.
@@princesspikachu3915 Sure, in the "he likes really freaky horror stuff" sense. He's not an abuser, a murderer, or an eldritch terror, as far as anyone can tell. Not to mention that the original comment overlooks that Ren & Stimpy wasn't just John's creation, and even beyond that, there was a whole studio of people working on the show, and those people liked doing it when they weren't being abused by their boss. Jumping to conclusions about the author because of their work is a tale as old as time, and it always becomes laughable in retrospect. Of course, there are exceptions (if somebody keeps making books about heroic Klansman, it's not a reach to say they are probably racist), but there's nothing inherently problematic about Ren & Stimpy, it's just gross.
i get all but studio ghibli for a what ruined series. because from what know studio ghibli is a international company that gets different animation from the world and has done nothing wrong with their company.
@Monkey1990100 They don't have many successors to keep the studio upfloat. Almost all of their young directors left in droves. The only people left are Miyazaki and his so Goro.
I remember when I lived in north east US. My then neighbor and his younger brother knocked on my door and said, "you have to come watch this new cartoon, it starts in 15 minutes." It was the first time I ever heard of or watched Ren & Stimpy. I recall the episode with "eeee glazed ham." I laughed so hard that I fell off the couch! Tears were coming out my eyes, I was literally rolling on the ground laughing.
Hoping to create more "What RUINED/What's RUINING" videos again! Been meaning to cover this topic for years but it's a rough one to navigate. If you enjoyed the vid, give it a like and thanks for watching!
Ren & Stimpy sure had a bizarre Legacy!
How about What Ruined Winx Club?
You should possibly make, "What's RUINING SpongeBob" at some point.
@@mago_malvado96 One thing at a time for him
@@thefantasticretroreviewer3941
Yeah, I'll give him lots of time.
One of the most amusing facts I learned about Ren and Stimpy’s production was that in the studio, there was a place on the wall labeled "John's Kneecaps" or something like that, and the artists would kick it. Soon, it turned into a gaping hole. That’s how much he was hated
The Bronze Kneecap origin story is gonna be lit with this one.
@@poweroffriendship2.0yep pretty much
Edit: wow I got 52 likes already thanks!
They kicked the kneecaps but not the bals? That's self-control
Saber inspires me.. My parents said if i get 50K followers They'd buy me a professional camera for recording..begging u guys , literally
Begging...
John look's like Jeffrey Dahmer.😂
The ren and stimpy crew hated johns abuse so much that they made an entire episode later on just to dunk on him. Reverand Jack Cheese is basically how the crew was able to vent out their frusterations of his tyrannical rule.
Don’t forget that scene where stumpy becomes an animator,the storyboard scene where ren,all done up like their perception of John k
@@Sketchfan- You know we should of realized that was a sign from the staff that things weren’t exactly the best with John K.
@@GoleonThis episode was done after John K was fired.
Bob Camp's team retooled a leftover John K episode pitch. In John's pitch, Ren was an abusive producer and Stimpy a tired animator. In the final version Ren was basically John K (he even wore his glasses).
@@timbermicka - Yeah but we didn’t know what happened with him and his crew till many years later.
The crew are w@ketards?
I actually got the chance to interview Bob Camp for a college paper. I asked him how they got away with a lot of the dirty jokes on Ren and Stimpy and he said “We would write even WORSE jokes in the scripts for the FCC to focus on so the other stuff got swept underneath the rug”
Apparently, that’s what Animaniacs and the New Adventures of Mighty Mouse did. Basically, they had one really offensive joke the network would be upset with, initially fight to keep that joke in, then give up and basically say “we can get rid of this joke, but we can keep these other jokes, right?”
Bob Camp also made two Thrave webtoons that are currently lost.
@@Morningstar91939 Mighty Mouse had John K. as a director, Bakshi as the producer, and future Animaniacs co-writer Tom Minton as the de-facto top writer.
Diversion tactics. Clever dudes. 🎉
@@ChristianFrates1997 afaik they only existed as a trailer
Unfortunately, not only does "pain create great art," but pain tends to create more pain.
Awesome! More great art!
Just ask Vincent Van Gogh
Back when I was In college the Subject of John K and Ren and Stimpy came up, My animation instructors had nothing good to say about him, talked openly about the shitty things he did to his workers, and talked about his Grooming, in 2013, long before the victims came forwards. We all Knew, everyone Knew, it was only a shock to people outside the industry just how bad he really was and they told us to keep us safe from both his abusive perfectionist nature, and to keep the women in our class from becoming his victims.
He should have been exposed sooner.
God this is so similar to VM. His awful behavior was very well known by the convention industry through out the 2000’s and almost everyone working at Funimation.
Nothing was done cause his popularity at the time made him untouchable and in Funimation’s case the other vas couldn’t report him due to him being all chummy chummy with the guy that was in charge at the time.
The only reason he fell from grace was a ton of good timing.
First someone on Twitter who use to work at cons started a thread exposing everything he did at conventions during the 2000’s which allowed others victimized in some way by him to add in their own experiences.
These ranged from inappropriate hugs to him getting angry when a mother & daughter declined spending time with him in his hotel room to him flat out saying “Well we can change that.” to a male fan who politely declined his church album due to being Jewish.
As for the stuff the og poster listed it’s quite a lot. Too much to say here. Basically the worst was an incident of him stalking a big named JP va during a con to the point that she didn’t return to the US con circuit till years later and when she did she had to get a new hotel room under a fake name after VM found out what her og room number was.
Anyways after this Funimation released a statement that after complaints about VM breaking the company’s no harassment policy (which got put in place after Sony bought Funimation and the ceo aka VM’s buddy that allowed his bs to continue for way too long had left) got brought to light they did an internal investigation and discovered that it was true thus VM was let go.
Rooster Teeth also released a similar announcement while two of his victims at Funimation brought up their stories and initially it seemed like that be it. But then not long later VM issued a lawsuit at Funimation as well as the two victims that at the time recently spoke out about their experiences with him annnd yeah his career was over with.
Instead of admitting fault and getting help like he claimed he would do, he got all angry and petty and egotistic (as he thinks he’s still a big deal when he’s not) because of it all other anime dubbing studios refused to work with him. Viz was the last company to give him work and that was only due to an agreement with the licenser on not replacing the vas while they were doing their role.
As for the convention scene he’s basically blacklisted from most major cons with only those desperate for guests (very small usually obscure cons or ones as infamous as him like Anime Matsuri) asking for him to be a guest. Well that’s unless he doesn’t removed due to backlash that includes other guests threatening to back out in protest if he’s allowed in.
I ended up finding out that a local anime con my state had (it’s since moved to a nearby state) actually knew so well about how bad he was that those running it told the staff to never bring him as a guest. He was banned from attending. That says so much.
Besides the low level cons, he now tries to host illegal autograph sessions in malls and random parking lots only to be fairly kicked out due to not having a permit or permission to do so. He also once tried to sneak into a con as the guest to someone running a table in the dealers room/artist alley but after it was found out there was an online backlash so big that the convention staff barred him from coming.
@@Goleon I almost misread the initials, and at first you were talking about Vivziepop, as there’s been allegations that she’s a toxic person to be around. All you need to do is look up how she reacted when she was denied the $5,000 “executive producer” credit for the Lackadaisy BackerKit.
@@EpixAndroid - Yeah. After she did nothing but just donate and others called out an employee for that other project for liking transphobic tweets than hiding behind their coworkers who got rightfully called out for defending them. Also those “accusations” against VivziePop have been shot down by everyone else who is working with her as well as by those who use to work for her.
@@Goleon transphobic tweets? Are you a w@ketard?
@@Goleon VM?
That bit about how Robyn wasn't sure if John K. was hitting on her because he was "being nice" is exactly why we need to teach kids that predators aren't always that creepy dude hiding in the bushes with a white van.
And they’re not always “unattractive” or losers. They come in all shapes and sizes and while it’s not good to be paranoid about predators, we need to remind kids to remember the signs of these terrible people.
To be fair, I won’t be surprised if today’s parents teach their kids that.
Female predators get a slap on the wrist and glamorized by the media and their underage male victims are told they are lucky. Society needs to hold them to the same level of disgust they give men. On the flipside, people also need to hold women accountable when they falsely accuse men of predation they did not commit.
Sorry, no, special snowflake right wingers will accuse you of teaching sex to kids. They will lie about what you are teaching children so they can be free to take advantage of them, because it's always projection with them.
@@TheSlipperyNUwUdleyep
I’m so proud of Lance for moving on from this toxic working relationship to eventually becoming the iconic voice for Plankton
True and also cool icon ❤
plankton is an icon!And h looks like a wholesome fun guy too
Doug Lawrence actually does a lot for SpongeBob. He's a writer and artist for the show too, not to mention his other voice roles like Larry Lobster, Fred, Realistic Fish Head, etc. And he's been there since the beginning. He's probably one of the big reasons SpongeBob has kept up the quality since Stephen Hillenburg's death. He's quite talented.
Fatherless pfp
*Lawrence* not Lance
John K. was clearly a man who allowed his own issues to spiral out of control until they completely ruined him, but then used said issues to scapegoat the disgusting actions he committed that most likely had nothing to do with said issues.
A pioneer of art and media, most definitely. A terrible human being, again most definitely.
I forgive him… at the end of the day I love his animations so his other crimes should be completely ignored. 😌
@@GMAV3RICKYOU don't get to forgive him. You weren't a victim. Nobody gives a shit whether you share his awful morals or not.
@@GMAV3RICK That's not for you to decide. It's so easy for you to say that. "I love his animations so his other crimes should be completely ignored" What a brain-dead sociopath egoistical childish take. You are the type of person who will defend their favorite artist not matter who they hurt as long as you love their stuff. Yuck!
@@nobody.6126 Whoever defended John K by forgiving him like a try hard really needs to get a grip.
@@GMAV3RICKObvious bait is obvious
i think that john K is a very good example of how just being edgy doesn’t make you funny or entertaining, you still have to actually make jokes in order for things to be humorous.
All jokes needs substance no matter what kind of type they are
A lesson Viziepop has yet to learn
Fully agree. I like dark humor, ACTUAL dark humor but my god do too many people think it's just randomly spewing shocking and disturbing things with no point other than to make others uncomfortable or upset. In reality dark humor takes some level of thought and nuance, it takes knowing your audience, understanding where the line is drawn and dipping a single toe over it. Just saying dark things with no punchline? No worth while pay off? No point other than "offend as many people as possible"? That's not dark humor, that's just what you get when you let an edgy 12 year old play Cards Against Humanity.
Unfortunately humor is very subjective, I know that’s everyone go-to for “bad humor” but what’s not funny to you will be funny to others no matter how you swing it. It’s hard to police humor that way is all I’m saying.
Limitations can actually be good for creativity. Him being forced to tone down his show to make it “appropriate” for kids probably did a ton to help John K. and his team to think outside the box.
Robin Byrd really did say it perfectly. A lot of people have had difficulties growing up with parents and guardians. That is terrible, and they deserved better than that. They also deserve to seek professional help to work through their trauma. However, that is no excuse to be a terrible person yourself. A lot of them use their terrible experiences as a drive to be good people. But it's terrible to imagine that just as many go down the other road, and that makes them just as bad as the people that hurt them.
Yeah I was happy to hear that quote from her because that's the philosophy I live with. Yeah, I had a crappy childhood, but one's past only guides, it does NOT define them and being abused or traumatized is no excuse to become the one doing that to someone else, especially not a vulnerable child that doesn't understand why mom/dad hates them. Children, are not punching bags, and someone else stealing your lunch money is not an excuse to rob a bank. It's sad though, just how often people... Almost get it and still fall into the same trap of perpetuating abuse and continuing that harmful, destructive and self destructive cycle because that's how they were raised. Yeah... That's a straw man argument, if you hate your upbringing, you should strive to cultivate a different upbringing then your own if you choose to have children or become a more parental like figure because at that point, your abuser won. Not only did they destroy your life but how many others through your actions that you let them influence? Tbh this is why we need more mental health resources and a stronger emphasis on good mental health because ik it's hard sometimes, but it's absolutely possible to break the cycle and absolutely necessary if we're to foster a society worth persevering through more generations. I really hope more people choose to live a life they can be proud of despite bad upbringings rather then allow pain, hate or spite to win and destroy them
@@discordiacreates6669It’s embarrassing and shameful to seek treatment. Other people will judge you as weak minded and crazy. At the end of the day you control your own brain and your own thoughts. No amount of “professional help” can change that fact.
@@princesspikachu3915well said
@@princesspikachu3915 How disrespectful of you. Not everyone is skullful or have the tools needed to know how to combat their emotions and thoughts--there's a reason it's a profession. I'm happy you seem to know oh-so-well how to take control of your own emotions (but seeing your lack of empathy I would assume not), however, others have mental illnesses or trauma that's too much to handle themselves. That's like telling people who have had a leg injury to "just walk;" just because it's not a physical illness doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
@@princesspikachu3915 The point of professional help is simply to make it easier.... because, y'know....they're professionals in it.
Just like you can paint your house, repair your car, or build a shelf on your own - and you can absolutely do them well. However, professionals are trained more explicitly in doing those things and therefore often can do them better, more consistently, and typically have access to tools that the general public doesn't.
Also just as an addendum, not everyone possess the same level of control over their own brains/thoughts - especially those who are mentally ill or disordered given that....well that's kinda the whole point of the "illness" part? You can't control being sick, but you /are/ responsible for how that sickness effects others - like not going around and sneezing on others and potentially making them sick as well. Or in the case of being abused as a child and PTSD - not going around and enacting that same mistreatment you experienced as a kid on others.
I think the reason the Adult Party Cartoon failed is because John misunderstood the appeal of his own show. Ren and Stimpy being gross is part of its identity, but not the ENTIRETY of its identity. It also has good jokes, sound affects, good animation and good timing. People found the characters genuinely funny, and the characters being gross became a step up for the comedy. And part of that was the crew that worked on it who John took for granted. Without them, Ren and Stimpy would be nothing.
APC, ironically, because of its lack of restriction, lost its bite by going too far into the grossness and violence. When you overexpose an audience to something, they get desensitized to it and either get too freaked out and turn it off, or lose the motivation to keep watching because it’s boring and not funny. I would argue that the emotions you want your audience to feel the very least is boredom or annoyance, because if you lean too far into them, they’ll change the channel.
I don’t take this story as a pro-censorship lesson, but one regarding artistic restraint: if you want a story to have an impact, negative or positive, sometimes less is more. Family Guy can get pretty crude and violent, but at least Family Guy has an identity beyond just being crude and violent. APC just…. Doesn’t.
I think if Peter Lorre was alive he'd slap the shit out of John K. For portraying his likeness on such a revolting monster in an adult cartoon.
I cannot think of anything other than violence and shock humor driving Family Guy. I personally would rather watch Stimpy’s Pregnant than anything Family Guy related. And I hate APC.
To be fair to John K , he’s admitted multiple times that APC was horrible and he did the gross out humor because the fans demanded it and spike wanted him to make a show like South Park. He’s very egotistical as a critic and showrunner but he’s modest as an artist
I also think that sometimes outside restraints or some boundries are good bc then creators have to put in the effort and come up with some creative and clever ways to work around/get past these 'blocks'. Like they have to make a joke funny outside of 'violnece and grossout' or 'sex/lewd'. But when it's a free-for-all and no boundries/rules then some creators, who lack self-restraint can get lazy. Becuase they don't have to try anymore.
John K. Is unable to tell a story, that's why, if the original show worked it was because of Bob Camp, John K. on its own is useless, The Ripping Friends looks great, but it's bland and boring!
I once got into a heated argument on the internet with John K in the late 90s, back when I still considered him a personal hero. He claimed that it was "terrible animators working on commercials" were the ones ruining the industry.
I argued that the animators working in commercials were doing far better work than what we'd been seeing on television shows during that time, and that commercials for Flintstones cereal and Flintstones vitamins was far beyond anything we'd seen on the Flintstones television series, because that's what corporations want to put their money into. He was determined to make me know it was the ARTISTS who were bad, not the corporations, and that those commercials did NOT, in fact, have quality animation.
He really said that?
@@hannahbecker2309 Wouldn’t be surprised if he did, knowing everything we know now about him
What a weird take. He just wanted to feel superior I guess.
@@capncookie1110 yeah
@@kristalgic1534 well we got news for him. He ain't superior.
The worst part of this isn't just that John K is a huge self-destructive creep, but how many creeps seemed to converge around Nickelodeon those days. Ezel Channel, Brain Peck, Marty Weiss - and of course, the biggest one next to John himself, Dan "Get in the Van" Schneider. With this many convicted and ousted predators, its little wonder how K was such a protected "open secret" during the 90s.
thats just hollywood in general. not at all exclusive to nickelodeon. its always been a hive of degenerate sex pests and pedophiles.
Thanks, I wasn't aware of that broader context! I mean specifically there, I was aware it was still across society. Heck, in the '70s when I grew up that stuff was sort of accepted.
I'm pretty sure most of Hollywood is like that.
Don’t forget Mr drake bell
Dan "Get in the Van" Schneider I can't 💀-
I was a huge fan of this show, I watched it religiously and when they had merchandise I bought it. I wrote John K and I got a letter back along with a paper with sketches of different characters signed, then I was in a house fire and everything got destroyed. A couple years later I sent a letter to John K telling him what happened, I got a manila envelope with a letter asking me if I was OK and that I could stop by Spumco if I wanted a tour, in that envelope was a huge stack of sketches, Jimmy, Ren, Stimpy etc. I was overjoyed and in my eyes John was a hero, until I found out later he was having inappropriate relationships with girls who my age at the time. I was bummed out, John encouraged me to keep drawing and pursue my dreams and I find out the man was a monster in other aspects of his life. I still love this show and I still appreciate the fact he wrote me two times and sent sketches both times, never went to Spumco though.
it's like the priest, filantropist, the great (gym/sports)teacher...
Offering candy to lure its prey and surroundings into a sense of false security.
Thankfully you never went and just had the candy, without ever walking into his web of lies. I thoroughly enjoyed Ren and Stimpy. My father was sort of like that General too.
The description John gave here when talking about his dad brought back a few memories (about the remarkable way to see a father slowly boil over - while your fear starts rising). The constant dismissal felt familiar too. Not to excuse John, but such a father messes you up profoundly. I'm lucky I had a caring mother. I suppose we both dodged a bullet.
wow who gives a shit if he banged some teenagers. I guarantee that most of your ancestors were teenage-age when they had kids
Sigh, never meet your heroes, kids. You'll always end up disappointed.
What if your hero isn’t a piece of shit
Man...thats brutal...
John K’s narcissistic attitude and predatory behavior destroyed his entire life and he deserves every second of his misfortune.
Exactly.
Yup.
100% agreed & deserved.
Well said
he had some big daddy issues in his childhood
I truly believe restriction helps a writer/artist grow more than unrestricted freedom. Its why shows like Dan Vs, Invader Zim, and Regular Show thrived and was able to be enjoyed by all ages. What the writers originally intended for the shows would have produced material unrecognizable to what we love.
Maybe people should stop forcing niche artists to conform and appeal to the largest common denominator.
Like they pluck these unique and weird voices out from obscurity then get surprised when these people are weird.
I don't know my point is like, with Johen Vasquez, yeah Invader Zim is good
I guess what I'm taking issue with is you saying someone has to make a narrative enjoyable for "all ages" instead of letting their freak flag fly.
Obviously he can't make a comic where Zim uses some sort of multi headed tool to peel off Dib's skin (just an example of the most extreme thing I could think of for the official release to do)
I don't know what I'm trying to say.
I hate the idea of hindering or restricting yourself because other people can't or don't want to catch up.
Kind of makes me think of how classrooms slow down to the slowest kid instead of moving kids up when they outpace the curriculum.
Reminds me of communism, somehow.
@@SupHapCak It's confirmed that Nick was interested in another show like Ren and Stimpy. Nickelodeon producer Mary Harrington came across a comic book called Johnny the Homicidal Maniac and was impressed with the art-style and character designs in the series. She then contacted the creator of JtHM Jhonen Vasquez, who had zero experience in animation at the time, and asked him if he would like to pitch an animated series to Nickelodeon. Vasquez accepted the offer.
Fun Fact: VivziePop the creator Hazbin Hotel confirmed that Zim was a big inspiration for her art style.
It kinda reminded me of batman the animated series. The creators even created a poster with batman, robin, the joker, and harley surrounded by things that the animators are not allowed to include in the show like cigarettes, alcohol, or blood. Though these limits did not stop them from creating a really dark cartoon that is appealing to kids and adults. They don't rely blood, sex, and violence for the maturity; they present through the themes of their story or much more subtle scenes ( I recalled the scene in Batman Beyond where Robin, now brainwashed into Jokers apprentice just broke down and cried while that grin was plastered to his face, its just sad and messed up). Like what Saber said, censorship and restrictionships provides structure.In a way, it allow artists to be mor flexible and creative.The only time it is bad is when it force creators to be placed in one box which really limits them in making new kinds of art.
@@melodybaoin1425 It also helps that this early Nickelodeon, because Sponge Bob wasn't a thing Nick had to rely on any show they could get no matter how weird they are. Thus Nick gave Spumco a good about of freedom, as long as they wouldn't go too far. Eventually thats what John K did, and Nick punished him for it. Balance is key.
@@SupHapCaki think there's a place for both no holds barred, AND restrictions for an artist. I think doing both is good. Someone should absolutely be able to make crazy, wild, edgy, violent, sexy, whatever art thats made from passion and comes from pure creativity and share it with others who are also into it - but I do thing restricting yourself can help you improve as an artist or explore your art in a way you wouldn't otherwise. Doesn't necessarily have to be in regards to the actual content of the art, either. Can be something like being forced to "cut the fat" or fit an idea into a certain amount of words or time limit, or a style outside of your usual
I wish there was an easier way for artists to do both though. It seems a lot of artists get shoehorned into doing ONLY family friendly stuff where they have to tame down their stuff and aren't given the opportunity to freely make what they just want to make. BOTH are important! Idk if that's makes sense, I hope it does
John's misfortunes as a child should be in no way an excuse to carry on how he behaved as an adult. All these bad things couldn't happen to a more deserving person.
There's a line between being a victim and becoming and abuser yourself. John K crossed that line decades ago.
It's not an excuse, but it can be an explanation.
"Freudian excuse is no excuse."
@@PretendingToBeAHuman In addition, people who were abused as children usually don't become serial rapists like John Kricfalusi or John Wayne Gacy.
Saberspark decided to leave out that Kricfalusi was showing sexually explicit pics of his victims in degrading poses to his coworkers, and they did NOTHING about it. Was Bob Camp abused too? Or his other coworkers?
Saberspark only alluded to Kricfalusi's abuse being an open secret, but never calls them out for being enablers.
The Adult Party Cartoon was definitely the last nail in the coffin for the show.
I watched that godawful episode of Dark Ren to make it much violently unfunny and very uncomfortable.
Better than Helluva Boss amirite? Hahaha /s
The only decent episode was Ren Seeks Help and it's sad because it was extremely cringe.
I was a kid that loved gross out cartoons, including Mad and Cracked magazine that featured similarly detailed bodily functions.
HOWEVER, that Adult Party Cartoon where Ren, and Stimpy eat snot was too much for even me. It's almost like watching a real person doing that.
Helluva boss is fantastic though?
Putting aside his transgressions, the main problem with John's work was he didn't value anything besides funny drawings. He needed people to help him with story construction and timing. When he did APC, the artists from the old show weren't with him and the show faltered badly. The worst aspect of APC by far was the painfully slow timing followed by the atrocious acting.
I would have to agree with that. Another example of John focusing on funny drawings over any actual substance is his web cartoon Cans Without Labels, which took forever to come out. For a short that is a little over 10 minutes long, it certainly does waste your time with stupid, distorted faces. Taking out all of the distorted faces and stupid character movement, the story is at most 5 minutes. His work, at its worst, is some of the most self-indulgent crap I’ve ever seen in animation.
@@SnakePit6517 John claimed he valued Clampett but his work had the furious pace of jazz. He didn't stop every two seconds to very slowly exhibit weird faces and he actually had a sense of storytelling
@@SnakePit6517 i remember when it came out. It sucked and still sucks extenuous amounts of ASS
Whenever I see APC I automatically assumes it stands for A Perfect Circle
Exactly. The ideas on their own aren't funny, just gross and outrageous. It was the writers that saved Ren and Stimpy. John K is basically Gord from Freddy Got Fingered.
I recently saw a documentary about him that John K was interviewed in, and that dude would not take responsibility for things. He was blaming an underage girl for grooming him in some way that he seemed to perceive a honest innocence.
i mean the guy is probably traumatized as fuck himself and carrying some internalized childhood problems (likely abused himself) that leads to this shit. america is a shit-show in terms of social dysfunction and abuse. maybe we could just try to encourage people like john AND his victims to get the psychological help they need instead of just endlessly doing holier-than-thou grandstanding and demonizing people as evil. clearly doing the latter has never actually made this shit stop happening.
Ugh….I remember seeing that. I was so grossed out that he blamed a 13-year-old girl for “seducing” him.
"she was very convincing" aka im blaming the child for abusing me
Sociopathic traits: lack of accountability, a conscience or empathy, impulsivity, hedonism, distain for authority. John K is probably a sociopath, narcopath in particular.
Understanding the actions, the circumstances, the perceptions of the individuals on both sides. Along with allowing the system of law to take action even if the law needs pressured to do so. Along with not publicly attacking either side is the only way to solve problems like this. The most common, like in this case, approach. Just causes one or both sides to take on defensive positions or posturing. Which does not allow us to move forward.
You can hate me for this opinion, but this is the only way I was able to move on. Understanding why and even what led to the circumstances I found myself as a kid.
Whats upsetting is Bob was the real driving force behind ren and stimpy. WithOUT bob camp there would be nothing
Oh my god, NOT this again!
Yes, Bob WAS important to R&S’ development don’t get me wrong, however to just erase John K from Ren & Stimpy (even as the miserable scumbag he is) is something that I unfortunately don’t agree with. Animation, especially with Ren & Stimpy is a creative effort and singling a project down to one person no matter how much they did, is just not right to me.
Hell, I believe Bob Camp himself even hates being called the “Real” creator of Ren & Stimpy. So unless Bob says anything himself, let’s please try and not put words into anyone’s mouth.
Edit: Apologies if I sounded hostile or angry. That honestly was not my intention, it’s just that I often see a lot of people (mostly on Twitter) singling Ren & Stimpy’s success to one person, John or Bob it doesn’t matter. Sorry if I gave y’all the wrong impression. It’s all good.😎👋
Yeah, I'm hoping the same with this reboot of Ren and Stimpy that Bob Camp is brought in some way to help revitalize it since Billy West is coming back to do the voices.
@@Ubritoons96- Geez calm down missy.
@@Ubritoons96why are you so angry?😅
@@Ubritoons96point is that a show is good because of the whole team not one person. It’s like how Danny phantom was fun because of the team 😅 your angry is unnecessary
I believe that Billy West referred to John K as "an amateur human being". That checks out.
I feel bad for billu for having to put up with both john k and howard stern. Howard bringing on jonh k to the show was just dirty towards billy
The situation with Billy angers me to this day.
Not only because it was disgusting on itself, but because of how manipulative John K also was, making himself *a victim* of it. And he also made his fans believe that!
Like, I remember finding the footages of Billy and John from this same talk-show before the whole truth came out about J.K and people in the comment section WERE BLAMING BILLY for John's misfortunes and called him a horrible person. And this freaking grown-ass abuser and predator sits there in the spotlight trashing Billy (who is visually so nervous and uncomfortable) and bragging how one of his characters is "hot" and "underaged, too".
*AND HE WAS TREATED AS A VICTIM* and gained support and sympathy. Ew, disgusting much?!
@@smart.but.stupidI saw an old Reddit post years ago on that sort of interview, with the comments taking John’s side and bashing Billy long before John was exposed.
Knowing what we know now, it really goes to show how manipulative John really was.
@@capncookie1110 oh, I saw this post too, I know exactly what you're talking about.
It's just so unfair, poor Billy had his share of pain, but all ends well, I suppose?
Something I've realized while watching this is that Jhonen Vasquez is honestly an amazing example of the kind of creator you'd want john k to be. The lack of sanitization of the work despite its presumably child audience, due to the understanding that kids can handle mature subject matter. Honestly, this has actually given me an even deeper appreciation of Jhonen, because him just being a genuinely great and likable guy who just likes weird and horrific stuff in media is like... He's an example of a creator that we can't really take for granted when there are people like John K souring the pool of examples.
I agree, Jhonen Vasquez always had such an interesting "dark" and "edgy" image of him but is a really cool and sweet guy from what people said about him.
I completely agree with you two. Jhonen really seems like a genuine guy who also has a dark sense of humor, but doesn’t make people feel lesser than by thinking that he’s a genius who can do no wrong
I tune into Jhonen’s Twitch streams and he still has a solid relationship with Rikki Simons (the voice of GIR and his comic’s, I Feel Sick, colorist) and Richard Horvitz (the voice of Zim) even after all these years, with both of them having positive things to say about him
Jhonen would sometimes go into the 3D animators room to see the kind of things they would create and said how he was always blown away by their work. He definitely encouraged his crew instead of tearing them down
In fact, the Invader Zim crew was quite comfortable with each other from what I could tell as they would poke fun at other members: the Tallest constantly snack because Jhonen would bring snacks into work, the writers (Jhonen included) and animators made Rikki’s car get crushed in one episode because everyone thought the car was ugly and Rikki wouldn’t stop talking about it, a reference sheet that was given to someone to pass it out to the artists had Jhonen jokingly saying at the end “Thanks! You’re fired,”because the artists weren’t getting the style correct (though wouldn’t put the fact something like that would be genuine past John)
It makes Zim’s cancellation all the more tragic as the people behind the show built such strong bonds with each other that are still there to this day. It’s clear that the IZ crew, including Jhonen, really cared about each other
But at least when Ren and Stimpy was cancelled, the crew was freed from an abusive environment. I hope the Ren and Stimpy crew are doing better these days
A story I heard about IZ's production was apparently some of the higher ups at Nickelodeon found Dib really annoying, and wanted him gone from the show. So a memo started circulating to make Dib funnier because "He's Jhonen's favourite character! He'll be sad if he's gone". And like, that's a silly thing but I think shows how liked Jhonen must have been with the crew for them to rally around making sure he wouldn't be sad. I feel that says a lot about how well he must have gotten on with everyone.
(Also apologies if I got any details of this wrong. It was a post I saw ages back, and I haven't seen the show myself. Will happily correct details if there are any)
@@emilystewart6175 as far as I remember when Jhonen was told to remove some features from the show/script, he was really patient with the executives and his argument always was - "but it's FUNNY"
Lmao I found it so sweet, honestly. Jhonen and IZ were too good for Nickelodeon
Honestly my favorite creation from him was JtHM. He is such a cool guy and made my favorite comic ever, I let people borrow it a lot and recomend buying it if we are too far away. People are always like Oh yeah I recognize this style.
This is a great video on such a fascinating topic.
To add my own two cents: about four or five years ago, my dad and I got to talk to Bob Camp at a convention. To our surprise, he happily found time to talk to the two of us for a while. This delighted my dad, who's a huge Ren and Stimpy fan. We had already known all the shitty stuff about John K, but it was another thing entirely to hear Bob Camp absolutely spill the tea about him, complaining about how John K had worked everyone to the bone, and how the controversy surrounding K grooming young women had made Nick stop airing reruns of Ren and Stimpy. I got my first real look at how the people who were directly affected by John K held no fondness for him, and the extent of the bridges he'd burned.
Additional fact that I hope I'm remembering correctly: My dad, who's also a huge Frank Zappa fan, asked Camp if he got to meet Zappa because of the latter's cameo in a Powdered Toast Man segment. Camp said that he had really REALLY wanted to meet Zappa, but John K had kept him and every other interested artist at their desks to finish work.
I definitely always noticed the deliberately intimidating male authority figures when watching this show as a kid and how they do represent how many adults do make a kid feel. It spoke to me and my own experiences. Didn't really give thought at the time to what it suggested about the experiences of the writers/artists/directors though. Partly because I was just a kid but I also just thought pretty much everyone had people like that in their lives and it was more universal.
There's always one person in your life who towers over you and makes you feel uncomfortable, but part of art is interpretation and the observation of those people being based on John K's dad but also making people thinking of the authority figures in their lives are just as valid.
The fact that Nick tried to protect people like this twice is insane
EDIT: turns out it was ALOT more than 2
EDIT 2: with new information coming to light, I'm shocked this video wasn't defending John K lmao
Let me guess Dan Schneider was the second
@@bubbajarvis9979 yeah, Nick tried to pay the actress for Sam 300,000 dollars to keep quiet about it
That brings the grand total to 4 degenerates at Nick. R&S creator, the dude with the live action shows, the dude who made awful Loudhouse, and the dude who starred in Drake and Josh.
What's sad is I'm sure there's more we aren't aware of. The industry is quick to protect nasty abusive people because they make money. It's sick and disappointing.
@@princesspikachu3915Drake bell is also one of the kids churned out of the Nick machine
John K is such a hated figure in the industry, that even thirty years later, almost everyone involved in said industry says his name with dripping venom and clear disdain
He got what he deserved.
Edit: Also, very happy the "what ruined" series is making a comeback
The most horrible thing is that John K isnt in prison, we KNOW he did these things with absolute evidence, yet hes still out and about.
Sounds like all of Hollywood and celebrities.
Money talks, so they say.
@@comettamer It's surprising that fans gave John another chance with Cans without Labels. Thankfully he failed.
Because he is innocent
People can't be assed to report them, they just dodge the subject then tell everyone to do the same.
I'm in a strange place when it comes to Ren & Stimpy. Intellectually, I can appreciate it as a boundary-pushing and unique animation, even if I never personally cared for it... but at the same time it singlehandedly caused SO MUCH of 90's animation to immediately start doubling and tripling down on grossout humor in an attempt to copy its success. As someone who hated that sort of thing, even as a small child, I think it may be the reason why most of my nostalgia is reserved for shows I watched in the early 00's, despite growing up in the 90's.
Unfortunately, imitators only appropriated the gross stuff. Not the substance like character development and dynamic character animation.
Yeah, I had a divided opinion of it myself for that reason. I liked the edgy non-gross stuff, but those "painting" inserts were more than a little off-putting to me.
Hollywood has ALWAYS learned the wrong lesson when it tried imitating success.
See: Pop songs from Shrek, big name actors in Aladdin, the Strong Female Character in Hunger Games, the fantasy genre in general after Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter.
Personally waiting in anticipation for all the bad movie tropes that are gonna be born out of Barbenheimer.
@@metademetrawatch, its gonna be a pearl harbor movie paired with G.I Joe or something
@@metademetra Have you heard of 'Saw Patrol'?
I think what actually made that "Man's best friend" episode is that Ren is sick of George Liqour and their treatment. It can be traumatizing too much for Stimpy watching Ren beating up George Liqour. John Kricfalusi is hoping that this would've been another one of the masterpieces for the season. He ended up being fired from Nickelodeon later on.
In my opinion, the best episode is Man's Best Friend followed by Stimpy's Invention.
There is no message in Man's Best Friend imo. I think it's just soft psychological torture p*rn, the kind of stuff that John K loves. The scene of Ren beating up George is just there to bring the episode to a "satisfying" end. Also Nickelodeon wasn't happy with George facing no consequences for his actions in his previous appearance (the Dog Show episode), the beating scene was John's twisted answer to that. He thought that was a genius move but it backfired badly.
He got fired for not for the extreme violence that "Man's Best Friend" portrayed, but he got fired for missing the deadline.
I liked that there was a cartoon that portrayed a father figure as something to fear. It made me feel like I wasn't alone. I'm a loser, but I never abused others like John did.
@@caucasoidape8838Don’t say you’re a loser! You’re not a loser!
John K is the very definition of a menace to society, except his terror is consolidated to the animation industry instead. The fact that this man never went to jail is the most shocking thing about his career to be honest, considering some of the alleged crimes he committed. Saberspark doesn't go into as much detail here, but blameitonjorge's video goes into much more detail on how awful his crimes were.
What crimes?
@@ramonandrajo6348I dunno man, Statutory Rape?
@@ramonandrajo6348 The guy was accused of having child porn and showing it around to people he worked with. This is the disturbing and obscene content Saberspark briefly mentioned in the video.
I forget all the details with Bryd and Rice, but he did date them, have very sexually charged conversations with them, sexually assault them, take photos with them, and have sex with them (Bryd allegedly had a abortion of his child at 18). I'm probably mixing up the stories of the two women in my head a bit, but I imagine he did most of the same acts with both. Returning to the child porn bit, he would show it to his other perverted friends, as well as regular staff and ask them what they thought of it for some reason... On a related note, he specifically sought out young women to work at his animation studio (outright ignoring men when hiring), and was known to sexually harass them. There's other gross conduct on his behalf, but those were the majorly criminal acts form what I recall. This is all information from the blameitonjorge video if you're curious.
This man is a predator in every sense of the word. This isn't just some angry boss with a short fuse, or a loser guy throwing around fame and money to sleep with hot women. He's far worse than that, and him claiming it was just mental illness is clearly nonsense. The man knew full-well what he was doing, and did this over several years. Apparently the statute of limitations has run out on a lot of what he did, which is why the child porn claims didn't go anywhere. You'd think they could still investigate the guy since he might still have them somewhere, but I'm not a lawyer, so all this is speculation. Everything is technically alleged (not proven in court, and whatnot), but I have no doubt that the majority of it (if not all of it) is true.
@@flarestorm9417 If that is the case, why are some people comparing his case to the MV, which has nothing to do with him? I don't get it.
@@Maxisamo1 Rape?
I get the feeling that John didn't realise what made Ren & Stimy work, it's the subtlety of the darker elements that make the show edgy and weird, without being outright smut or filth.
When you strip away that layer of ambiguity and subtext, you're just left with gross for gross' sake. Which is what Adult Party cartoon ended up being.
Given there’s going to be a reboot/revival on Comedy Central, I’m betting they’ll throw a jab at John K.
That'll be funny.
It helps john k won’t be getting royalties either
Yeah. And I'm sure it'll be a pretty hilarious middle finger to the creator itself!
And just a heads-up: the R&S revival will actually be heading to Paramount+ instead of Comedy Central. (According to Billy West in a recent podcast on UA-cam)
A.k.a. W@ke culture is cancer. ;)
@@Sketchfan A.k.a. W@ke culture is cancer. ;)
I was in college in the early 90s. I'll never forget the shockwaves Ren and Stimpy created. There were 3 cartoons that were must watch for the college crowd: The Simpsons, Beavis and Butthead, and Ren and Stimpy.
no Animaniacs?
I was a kid. Those were the three animated shows I was not allowed to watch. I never saw an episode of the Simpsons till I was almost 20. 😂
That's a lot of "ands".
I was 2000. Aqua teen hunger force, family guy, and robot chicken
@@panam4reddnope.
I still can't believe I used to watch Ren and Stimpy as a kid and still have sanity
Same.
Me too.
Me too, lol
I use to love it Lmao !
Sanity what is that
That last monologue is so, so important. Working through your pain using art is a valid strategy, it helps immensely. You can create the most disturbing art and still be kind towards people, leaving your pain on paper. What John K did to other people as an adult, the girls he creeped on and his co-workers he mistreated, cannot be excused by a traumatic childhood or bad mental health. I wish he could have received help and therapy as a kid and didn't grow up into this kind of an adult, but not many kids of that generation had the chance, and not many have it now. I am happy that the people he had hurt are continuing their careers, and that his art and characters live on, but I wish the man himself was getting professional help right now instead of ranting about Cal Arts on his blog. He's out of the industry, no more people covering up his bad deeds, it's a chance to turn on a new leaf and become a better person.
And this is what I absolutely mean. If you keep saying "animation is cinema", then act like it. Don't be like John K and tarnish your career before it begins. You need to be able to handle the responsibility of your own production, if it succeeds or not and you HAVE to expect failure, both finanically and critically, and be open to critique while being skeptical about bad faith actors, checking sources within sources. That's the biggest mistake John K ever did, was let success get to his head. Incidentially, this mirrors way too much with Street Fighter III's development cycle.
Looking back, Ren and Stimpy is a reflex of the best and worst the 90s and 2000s media had. The borderline adult humor and surreal tones was excellent and terrible at the same time.
Sven Hoek was the episode we never knew we needed!
@leociresi4292 From what I’ve read on John’s blog, apparently Ren’s meltdown and threats towards Stimpy and Sven near the end of the episode was actually based off how John’s father acted and what he said to him word for word when he came come wearing a pair of pants his father didn’t like.
If that’s true, then goddamn, that old man seriously needed anger management.
@@capncookie1110I've read stuff how his dad belittled him for loving cartoons and being into animation and telling him he wasn't a real hard working man with working man hands...Visit to Anthony was inspired by his dad.
Oh look a stupid hater alert again 😂
I'm glad you managed to give a spotlight to both Robyn and Katie, as well as the other people who were abused by John K at the time, there's an unfortunate lack of attention given to victims when abuse is mentioned anywhere and that needs to change so that people can support them through their struggles to heal quicker over time.
Yeah I agree I could help Robyn and Katie
Not sure what Johnny boy was thinking blaming his actions on ADHD. Mine just makes me go "yeah, I got five hours before work, which isn't nearly enough time, and there's an entire kitchen full of dishes to do, and footage to record...but I'm going to lay on my couch and wonder if steroids exist in the Harry Potter universe".
Never once has it made me go "you know what I could really go for right about now? Statutory rape".
It's important to remember that a person's creativity and innovations don't tell you the full story of who they are.
Like the w@ketards?
*cough* JK Rowling *cough*
@@YouwillseesomethingYou’re gonna piss off the people who vehemently defend her dude.
@@Youwillseesomething cough Salty cough
@@ramonandrajo6348 Who’s that?
Makes me glad I had a very, VERY healthy relationship with my dad. We didn't see each other eye to eye when it came to my art and comics, but he was supportive regardless and never hesitated to buy my pens, pencils and even helped get me my drawing tablet and even asked me for a few commissions when his workplace was hosting art contests.
He sadly passed away in May this year, and while it still hurts, I'll always remember the good times. Thanks dad.
I'm glad you both had a good relationship and nurtured your love of animation. May he rest in peace.
@@PrincessofPower84 It's more comics and drawings than animation, but thank you.
My father is a drug addict, never took care of me. Has like 7 kids he doesn't take care off. I became like him😢😢
@@blanc-1517 I'm sorry to hear
Just wanted to commiserate, I also lost my Dad in May we're finally having the service tomorrow. Wishing you the best.
When you realize that John K modeled his personality after his “idol” Bob Clampett, who was also hated by his fellow animators and was the arch nemesis of Chuck Jones…..
Well, at least Clampett isn’t a kid diddler, but that’s just basic human decency
Dang I never knew about this, what happened to cause this hatred?
@@greengem9132He was an "egotist who took credit for everything" according to Mel Blanc. Clampett also acted like he was the creator of Bugs Bunny
@@BluffsCastle dang... No wonder chuck Jones hates him
Bob did take credit for stuff he didn't do but in his defense, so did his colleagues.
All the animators at Warner Bros. had their fair share of problems with Chuck Jones having a far bigger ego than Clampett. Thankfully, they were all functioning members of society unlike John.
I was in high school when Ren and Stimpy aired. It used to come on on late Saturday afternoons. After seeing the first episode, I started recording the show religiously every week on VHS. Remember VHS? I remember watching "Stimpy's Invention" when it debuted. I laughed hysterically through the entire 15 minute episode, I mean I was in tears, my face turned red, then purple, then blue, my stomach literally hurt. The best damn cartoon ever, unqualified, full stop. Nothing else comes even remotely close to Ren and Stimpy. It was just so demented.
Ralph Bakshi is awesome, he wanted to be a Disney animator so he got a job as a mail boy for them......then when he saw an open desk he just sat down and started animating. There were so many people under so many levels of management that nobody cared about who he was, they just assumed he was a new hire. He was able to last several months before they caught him LOL
That's awesome
Somehow that makes perfect sense. Given all the bloat Disney had even before today. It's unsurprising that just some random person could sit down at an animator desk. And just start drawing and everyone would Just as As well assume it's a new employee. He literally did the fake it till you make it in real life
That's not true. He never worked for Disney. Bakshi was a cel painter for some studio who spent a couple days animating and the studio's animators vouched for him after it got him into trouble (because he should've been cel painting). I wonder where this crazy Disney rumour came from
@@acex222This SERIOUSLY sounds like a variation on the mythic fib early 1970s Steven Spielberg perpetuated about having snuck into a studio lot, walking around in a suit carrying a briefcase pretending he worked there, eventually finding an empty office & spending a couple months acting as if it was rightfully his, putting signage up on the door of the room.
@acex222 It's what he said in a documentary. He could have been lying, I'll admit that. It wouldn't be the first time someone lied to seem more special. Either way, he ended up pretty influential as far as animators go and made some pretty awesome films. He made some really bad ones, too lol
Honestly, John K needs some serious therapy and time in prison. I can't imagine the stress, anger,rage, resentment from his staff. At the same time. I can't believe no one ever spoke about his abuse to the victims. Sounds like everyone there was toxic.
@NoelCotelo eVeRyBodY DoEs iT!!!111
DURP
What ruined Ren & Stimpy was simple: it was let off the leash. Like most things "edgy, " getting around the restrictions was where the humor was. Once they had no restrictions, there was no reason to watch.
The weird thing is his career kind of is the opposite of one of the guys he idolised, Ralph Bakshi was more popular with his adult films, Fritz the Cat, Heavy Traffic and Coonskin but got less popularity from his family friendly films or his attempts at adult animation in the 80's. Basically for his first three films he had a lot of creative freedom, and when it got to his family friendly films he started to get less creative freedom to write and direct the films. I think for him it was more so, he actually had things to say with his animation, like the ridiculousness of racism in America in the 70's and basically satirizing works of popular culture at the time that were just inherently racist.
Sometimes the restraints are what make something great. Compare shows made for younger audiences like Avatar or Adventure Time to shows like Velma and Family Guy. The adult moments hit harder because the writers need to be clever about it and present it in a way that will keep the kids enticed. Shows like Velma and Family Guy will have mature subject matter (violence, gore, drugs, sex, etc.) just for the sake of it with no substance. Adult shows like that feel like they're written by loser, edgy 13 year-olds that hung around adult sides of the internet for too long. Subject matter is as vast as a lake, but has the depth of a puddle.
@@flarestorm9417The only few Adult show in the 90s were dark and edgy but very mature, serious treated adults like actual adults like Aeon Flux, Spicy City (by Ralph Bakshi), The Maxx and Spawn. Funny enough Bojack Horseman were follow the same trend as modern adult comedy cartoon at first but slowly become more mature, drama, serious and interesting, Castlevania series were the good stuff despite Warren Ellis controversy.
@@flarestorm9417as I get older, I more appreciate more adult shows that can control themselves as makes the swear and other "edgy" stuff hit harder
@@longwlenguyen4214 It's getting a sequel.
I've kinda learned that dealing with any form of artist (writing, drawing, photography, etc.) is like walking a tight rope. Creativity almost universally comes from some level of pain, and some people are better at hiding it than others. It's fine to talk to creators, or even to admire them for what they do... but always make sure you are respecting yourself. Just like how an abused child can easily become an abuser, these pained people can inflict that same pain upon you (sometimes without even realizing it). Keep your wits about you and don't fall off either side of that tight rope.
I've met some awesome artists who draw the weirdest stuff, but are totally chill people when you actually talk to them... but I've also met some artists who become so egotistical by their own creations that they completely neglect the people who care about them, or are just assholes for no reason. People who I thought were good friends were really just looking for attention, and didn't care at all about other people.
Keep your wits about you, know what is and is not okay in your life, and be prepared to move on from troublesome people. We all try to cling to things that are precious to us, including relationships... but no single person, creator or otherwise, is worth losing yourself or your self respect over. Just like when the rope starts to wobble a little, maintain your balance and get to the other side safely. Don't take a fall just because you want it to work.
I agree. I feel there is slink between depression and creativity or art
I agree
Yeah. By pain and compulsion. I woudl give everything to getting rid of this annoying urge for creativity.
Luckily i cant lose my self respect... i never had any in the first place xD
John K is one of many, many, many individuals who have escaped justice due to being famous and rich - disgusting! And tragic as many of these individuals are talented, and have created groundbreaking works. It's all ruined, however, by their despicable actions.
My thoughts exactly.
Plus statute of limitations, the ick legally slipped through the cracks beyond any time for retribution.
Who are you?
@@ramonandrajo6348Oh no watch out!! The anti-woke vigilante is on the case!! Oh im so terrified!!
It also did not help that the underage "girlfriends" parents let her live with him to help her future career.
Sounds like that to Win his Fathers Approval, he ended up basically becoming a version of his father to his co-workers. I think also the reason why he had such a massive reaction to that episode being banned was because it showed his own childhood and was very very personal to him. Like he was showing and exploring his own childhood abuse. To have that be denied in the creative space must of been a massive blow.
Like father, like son
Outside of John K's "fetishes," Adult Party was the show that made people realize that he is a creative hack when given free reign and that the real reason the original was successful was that he had people like Bob Camp to help him out with the writing, as well as the restrictions from Nickelodeon that helped the crew be more creative with their jokes. This is one of the few examples of a creator given full reign of his work, only to then destroy not only his reputation for all time, but the reputation of his characters for nearly 20 years.
Beautifully said! Yea animation/writing team help shows but this was were the team literally CARRIED John K making the show
@@urmomshome230 While it is true that fans had problem with seasons 3 to 5 of R&S, thats just the downside of Nick not allowing delays.
If they did, then the new writers could have done something good without John K.
George Lucas comes to mind as a similar story arc. Though as far as I know that's just down to Lucas's stupid story ideas, not being an actual monster like John K. It sucks when a group manages to catch lightening in a bottle but the guy in control ultimately ruins it.
@@Caldwing Lucas's story ideas in his six films aren't stupid, imo. Also, he has more creativity in his finger tips on his own compared to creepy John.
@@tyrannozilla Are we talking about the same George Lucas here? George "Darth Icky" Lucas? George "Jar Jar Binks" Lucas? He has the mind of a child and the franchise has only suffered anytime he was given unrestricted creative control. Heh funny that it got even worse after he left though, just in a different way.
Just a heads up, you ignored why the studio said they fired John K.
John said Man's Best Friend is why he got fired, the studio said John K's response to them demanding him meet deadlines and stop going over budget was "The Episodes will Take as long as they need to take, and cost as much as they need to cost".
The studio fired him in response to that.
Didn't he addressed that early in the video?
😮 The sad thing is, unfortunately. John was correct. If you want good animation, that's done fluid. And in a way that doesn't seem stilted and stunted. And re cut a hundred times over That takes time and effort. And also the money. For the supplies for the animators required since this took place in a day Before the advent of online computer animation program such as toonboon.
He was correct in his idea. He just went about explaining it to the company in a really bad way. Then again, it seems any time that he did anything that did not involve just shutting up Sitting down and drawing. Resulted in a disaster when it came to john.
Story: I had an art teacher in high school who was a huge fan of Ren and Stimpy. He spoke just like Mr. Horse and allowed me to draw Ren and Stimpy in the yearbook graduating.
Wow, great story brah.
Oh my Gawd...... what an amazing story. Can I have your autograph?!
That's cool. Sounds like a good guy.
@@avidadolares 😆😅🤣
Sounds cooler than the real John K. I how you send him a letter one day telling him how cool he was
As a kid I counted John K as one of my heroes. He is a large part of why I love animation as an artform. I had the first four Wild Cartoon Kingdom magazines and read and reread the articles about how "evil" and "restrictive" Nickelodeon was. I was broken when I read that Buzzfeed article, found out what kind of scumbag he was, and what he did to those poor girls. Thanks for doing this video, people need to know about this disgusting behavior.
I also totally bought into Wild Cartoon Kingdom as a kid. Looking back, if nothintg else the fact that the first issue reviewed Animaniacs without bothering to watch it and called it worthless should have been a red flag. I loved Animaniacs too! I could clearly see that Animaniacs was a very good show most of the time. I should have also seen that WCC was full of it just from that.
Separate the art from the artist.
@@gooaygar How the fck do I separate Wild Cartoon Kingdom from "the artist" when it was literally propaganda elevating the artist and attacking his enemies?
He is an open secret
Almost nobody dares to talk about ren and stimpy because of him because they always get reminded of him
Even max g (hot diggity demon UA-cam channel) said that he took inspiration from him along side Craig McCracken but also acknowledged that John k was a monster
@@gooaygar
I don't have to separate the two. We have to remember that it wasn't just John K, but a whole team working on this project and made it what it was. It wouldn't be fair to the many other talented artists that one guy tainted the whole thing.
Billy West used to work for Boston radio station WBCN back in the 80s and his bits are legendary. Such a talented guy. It was cool to see he went on to bigger things
This whole video be summed up as “John K. was an animation genius until he wasn’t”.
I think I got a good quote for this. "You either die a hero or live long enough to become a villain" or to put it bluntly in this context "You either finish strong as the good guy or fight back long enough to be the bad guy".
"nothing built can last forever"
You either die a hero (Stephen Hillenburg)
Or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain (John K.)
I think he is technically a great artist but he was foolish enough to believe he was the be all, end all of the series.
You can be a great artist and still a terrible, disgusting person that just so happened to make good art. I could name at least five artists that fit that description.
Even before all of his sick abuses, I had soured on John K. after learning about his propensity for sh*tting on other animators (namely the team on Animaniacs) for no discernable reason.
I'm thinking that maybe his perfectionist tendencies that led to episodes not coming out on time may be coming into play here, with studios being able to actually put stuff out on time
Back in the day it was rough to hear Billy West call John K an "amateur human being." Now I know he was being kind, and by bowing out of the reboot he picked the absolute perfect time to jump ship.
I remember when Stern tricked them both into the radio studio one day and tried to instigate drama. John K wanted Billy West to apologize for not quitting Ren & after being forced out. Bill held his ground and definitely came out as the reasonable, sane one of the duo.
@@brianmurphy250 These days, it's hard to believe, but Howard Stern did a 360 on his fans and went super woke/left-wing which is a complete opposite of the sexist pervert he was on his old radio and TV show back in the 1990's. He nowadays would demand vaccinations for Covid victims and raise silly arguments with Bill Maher, who is his on again, off again best friend. The fact that he tricked Billy West with John K. has got to be one of Howie's more low-sinking moments in mean spiritedness, and he did it for cheap laughs.
@@brianmurphy250how many times did Stern say the N-word in that episode?
@@Superabound2 I'm amazed and shocked that Howie's longtime partner Robin Quivers allows him to say the "N" word in front of her.
@@Superabound2 couldn’t say….it’s on UA-cam here….easy to check.
His station manager in NYC would have bleeped it out if it had happened. When I listened to him the FCC was in full lockdown after the Janet Jackson mess.
Watching Old Howie slowly morph to the present day PC Howie shows the heights of hypocrisy one will go thru to stay relevant. The guy is so afraid of being cancelled now it just sad.
This was a good watch. I think one thing you overlooked at the end when speaking about separating the art from the artist and whether you could continue to enjoy the show knowing the history is all the other talent that made the show what it was. So many people contributed to the show and to write it off because of the behaviour of the creator, is to minimise the work done by everyone else. Especially since we know what Ren and Stimpy without the tempering influence of the others involved looked like (terrible).
This. I grew up watching Ren and Stimpy, and those grotesque stills are easily one of my favorite animation tropes.
I don't think it's necessary to nuke the entirety of his existence from history. There's enough of that kind of thing going on in the world today. People canceling someone, often over allegations without any kind of due process, does more harm than good. I'm not going to apologize or pretend I never enjoyed a TV show as a kid just because the guy making it made some... Colorful life choices.
The guy had issues. A lot of people do. It takes a village, folks. Be the parent your children need before someone else exploits that kind of vulnerability.
IMHO, "Man's Best Friend" was a revenge fantasy against his abusive father. When Nickelodeon gave him the no-go, he felt his vengeance was being denied. All the other times Nickelodeon told him "no", he grudgingly accepted it and just made changes. But this time? He wasn't going to take "no" for an answer this time.
Not so fun fact: John K not only got his abusive and narcissistic behavior from his father, but also his predatory ways.
On his blog, he creepily brags about how his father used to constantly hit on his girlfriends and even his friends’ girlfriends when they were young teens. Showing off his body and strength while shirtless, making the boys look bad so the girls would leave them for the 40 year old man, you get the idea.
Not only that, but his father also snuck playboy magazines in his room for him to find when he was eleven years old out of fear he’d turn gay. John never found out where the magazines came from until his father drunkenly confessed to him as an adult that he was the one who put them there.
Of course, this made John K grow up believing that kind of shit was normal and socially acceptable, which is why he was so creepily open about his sexual appeal towards underage girls in the animation industry.
Ah, that makes sense.
Like Father Like Son
Ewww
Sad
Yeah I remember reading that. He treated it like it was a funny story from his childhood. So disgusting.
It's not an excuse, but John K. grew up in the 60s. His father was definitely from a time when 13-16 year old girls got married to older guys, the age of consent laws in some states were 14. It was not okay, and we definitely know it as an issue nowadays. But John K. was a functioning adult in the 70s and 80s and should have LONG known that the way a man from the 1920s acted towards girls was NOT OKAY. Instead, John treated it like it was funny. Like what men did from that time period was normal.
There’s a similar problem I notice with John K and Richard Williams is now both have a goal of perfection and it hurts their projects with Ren and Stimpy having missing deadlines and The Thief/Cobbler having an infamous 30 year development cycle.
I suggest reading Thad Komorowski's terrific book on R&S. The missed deadlines were justified.
At least Richard Williams wasn't a creep.
@@ricardocantoral7672 I would not, actually. Thad's book is some of the most excellent amount of fencesitting I've ever seen. He wanted to out John for his behavior, but it feels like half the time his love of these characters takes over. Like he can't tell if he wants to screw 'em or screw 'em.
@@daniexists6 Fence sitting? John doesn't look good in that book AT ALL. I don't know where you are getting this from.
Sounds like Rob Liefeld, constant late scheduling of their works (comics for Rob). If justified, maybe, but that's a YMMV situation.
I remember an old Stern but with John K talking about a drawing with a girl in it and as Sterns describing it and K blurts out “and she’s underage”…
You are not responsible for the things other people do to you. You are responsible for how you handle it going forward.
One thing I can say about Ren and Stimpy is at least the rest of the crew had a huge hand in what DID get through, particularly in the Games Animations era. Hell, some of the Games episodes even poked fun at and satirized John K's antics, Stimpy's Cartoon being one of them. I wonder how the recent reboot will end up turning out. Honestly, I wonder how Weird Al feels about John K after the allegations came out since John K worked on his Close But No Cigar music video. Same with Bjork since he also did the I Miss You mv, how did she react?
I wonder how Mike Judge feels. He knew the man "ain't right", but like many of us, didn't know how bad it was.
I hope they keep this controversy out of the reboot and making a funny cartoon show
Yeah me too!
I'm beginning to think John K is like the Bojack Horseman of thr entertainment industry as a whole. Both of them suffering with generational trauma, burned alot of bridges to those they worked at, and both had narcissistic tendencies which in turn could do more damage in the long term. Its more disturbing than you think when both of them rise and fall in the process. Great video, as always Saberspark!
Agree
I know the story of Adult Party Cartoon reminded me a certain show BoJack put out
I had the same thought as well.
Even Bojack is maybe a jerk (and he already knows it), but at least he is a very well-written character.
Not Bojack, but some people in the Bojack fandom called Butterscotch "horse John K" so that says something.
And here i was thinking self insert charecters were newer, but john did a self insert with Ren back in the 90s. I guess i owe Mindy Kaling an apology about Velma... ... on second thought, no, no i dont. In fact, she owes all of a humanity an apology for that abomination of non-creation.
At least Mindy Kaling isn't a rap*ist
I think people didn't form their own opinions on Velma, tbh.
Everyone was "hate watching" it and parroting each other.
Some fo the jokes were actually funny. At least I thought so.
Plus if it had been executed in a better way, it had a pretty good plot.
@@SupHapCakI don’t wanna be that guy, but weren’t there allegations that Mindy sexually harassed a male coworker of hers?
The 90s?
Let me introduce you to a little story titled "Dante's Inferno".
Anyway, yeah, self-insert characters have likely been around since the dawn of storytelling.
Ren and Stimpy was probably one of the first exposures I had to the world. My mom and dad would watch it together when my mom was pregnant with me and apparently it would cause my dad to laugh so hard that I would start wildly kicking my mom. When I was a little older my dad would share his passion for the show with me in the 2000s, and my reaction to it was more or less spot on with how you described the show. I never got super into it, but it was certainly an experience and one of the few ways my dad and I bonded. Now as someone who has a deep interest in animation and the process, it pains me to hear the sadism that went into this project, and what John really wanted the series to be. Oh well. Cringy edgelords existed in the 90s too, I guess.
Some things won't ever change.
I mean I like my edgy stuff but then there are people who take it waaaay too far.
(I.e. The game Hatred)
One thing I think would be cool is if Saberspark did an exploration of the career of Ralph Bakshi, the first prominent adult animation director in the US and how he was also one of the only directors who actually treated animation on par with live action often combining the two.
John K let his past past traumas and anger consume him, turning him into something that is far to irredeemable to sympathize with. I just hope future creators can learn What not to do when using creativity...and become what John K had become, and what he had lost in the process.
Yes. New generation creators must never follow John's footprints
Follow his style but not his deeds outside animation.
@@PaperBanjo64 yes. Never follow his footsteps
An interesting watch is the 1995 Howard stern interview between John K and Billy West. You could cut the tension with a knife. John thought when he got fired if Billy West stood by his side they could of fought Nickelodeon and won. He was at least looking for Billy to be apologetic which he wasn’t and even cracked jokes at the situation.
Ren and Stimpy was most likely the last American TV cartoon produced almost entirely in-house. Which, in a way, is kind of sad. Everything since then has been outsourced to korea or canada
Actually apparently carbunkle, a Canadian studio, animated many of the inbetween frames, which I wasn’t aware of. Though they did a great job so hey whatever
This cartoon WAS my childhood, so you can imagine how heartbroken I was when I found out how much of a monster John K really is.
I learned the real story about two years ago and haven’t watched a minute of the show since.
I completely understand that😅
Yeah. I only discovered Ren and Stimpy through that banned episode called "Man's Best Friend", but I never knew the backstory of the creator until two of the victims called him out for what he had done. That doesn't help about the "Cans Without Labels" short that becomes his ultimate downfall.
Love the cartoon hate the guy😂
This inspired other gross toons as well.
Rocko, megababies, etc.
This guy did music videos for famous
Artists as Bjork etc.
The Bjork one was pretty nice.
“Pain can create great art, but you don’t have to keep inflicting pain to create great art.”
- Robin Byrd
That is so dillusional when you consider he was undiagnosed and in an era where stuff like that was not very well understood let alone normalized. If you read Johns response it's pretty clear that he didn't understand the pain he was causing.
This radical dismissial of anyone who causes pain is so draconian. Especially when it comes to art. John was a pioneer at the cutting edge of the industry. Throughout art history, people who pioneer new concepts were often very socially maladjusted. They hut themselves and the people around them because they were literally creating something from nothing.
There thousands of years of examples of this sort of thing and the great art is produces.
To hand wave it away really is the most entitield and gate keeping thing ever.
@@HalEmmerich-cc6rk If he knows has a personality disorder caused by his upbringing ( I believe you're talking about that because ADHD and bipolar don't cause you to have a lack of empathy ) then he should seek help and try to be a better person, and I don't see any change. I'm talking about doing something now. But I don't think no one told him that he's being a raging abusive asshole back in the 90's. He isn't blind to things he does. He's actively enjoying it.
I recall Henry Rollins expressing a similar sentiment years ago, saying something like 'if great art is only born through suffering, I think we can do without.'
@@HalEmmerich-cc6rk "You don't have to inflict pain" "THAT IS SO DELLUSIONAL!!!"
Bro.
@@HalEmmerich-cc6rk You do realize you can enjoy art someone creates and hate the person that made it at the same time for being a sexual predator that groomed underaged girls, right?
Even when I was a kid, I never, ever liked Ren and Stimpy. I like grotesque cartoons, especially ones that pushed the limit. Always had since childhood. Hell, my parents let me watch movies such as Austin Powers when I was 4 (not animated, but I think the humour aligns the same). At 6, I watched Howard the Duck. Loved them. Still love them as an adult, and appreciate them more now that I get more of the humour- even if Howard the Duck, in particular, is not a cinematic masterpiece by ANY standard.
Yet Ren and Stimpy ALWAYS unsettled me. Even frightened me at times. Whenever it came on TV, I would try to watch it- because everyone was- and when the authoritative humour came on, or the "mentally ill and unhappy" humour, I would literally cry. Even as a teenager.
As a young adult, around 22 years of age, I got diagnosed with PTSD (which some states would call my type CPTSD- my state just does not recognize CPTSD and PTSD as separate mental illnesses yet) as result of severe childhood abuse from both parents. Authoritative Abuse from my father- mentally and physically; and Negligence from my mother- mentally and physically.
Even with this diagnosis, I still never understood, even in adulthood now, why I cannot enjoy Ren and Stimpy. Especially since I do like cartoons that align with a similar mindset- such as Fritz the Cat and American Pop (in fact, I love Ralph Bakshi's work, even the movies he made that were far more bizarre and lesser known than those two- like Wizards).
After watching this, I actually understand now why it has always bothered me. It hit home in very honest ways like American Pop, but not in a graceful manner like that movie. It showcased a character (Ren) who became nearly identical in nature to the very authoritative characters who were abusing him without addressing HOW that can happen and WHY it happens. And rather than framing him as a character in the wrong, they framed him as endearing (and we see why, obviously, as Ren is clearly a self-insert). And THAT is why I HATED, and STILL HATE Ren and Stimpy.
Because Mental Illness is no excuse for shitty behaviour, and I despise when it is used as an excuse or framed as an excuse in a non-satirical manner. Media like that is why, I think, many adults, during that time, thought that cartoons and video games caused violence. That mental illness is not an illness needing addressing and healing, but a behaviour problem needing authoritative correction and general disregard of "sissy" needs. A mindset that continued until maybe about 2010(?), but has clearly, in my opinion, decline since then (a good thing since cartoons and videogames definitely DO NOT cause violent behaviour). A mindset that was damaging to children, childhood, and the truly mentally ill.
Anyways, that is the end of my rant. Sorry for that tangent lol. I have just always been so passionate about my distaste for Ren and Stimpy without realizing why, and now that I have this context, I really get it now lol.
"Everyone has feelings, so it's alright to be angry. But your feelings are never an excuse for when you hurt someone." -Mister Rogers.
It triggers your cptsd bc Ren and Stimpy have a highly abusive relationship. Ren is abusive in every way to Stimpy but Stimpy loves him to death all the same. Their codependency is pretty toxic. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the quality art and satire of it all but I don't think it's healthy for you to watch is all. ❤
@@ariadneschild8460, yes, I knew it triggered me for a while tho, but never understood what about it did until I watched this video lol. It makes sense now. There were many times I tried watching it- different episodes and whatnot too just to see if it was only certain ones. But I was never able to do it, and I have a great distaste for it even now as well. Just not for me.
Holy hell, we have almost identical experiences with this series. I have PTSD from childhood abuse and, despite young me loving grotesque media like Invader Zim and Creepypasta, I tried watching the show ONCE as an eight year old and turned it off within the first few minutes. It just felt so damn meanspirited in a way that was too close to home
@@wetsockfullofhotmeat , sadly, I do not think the experience is all too uncommon. I know quite a few people who have had similar experiences (though, not necessarily the same reaction toward the show).
Digressing, I absolutely loved shows like Invader Zim growing up too. But this one- Ren and Stimpy- just could not handle it. And, to memory, I do not think I seen any show that gave me such a visceral reaction to date. Even when watching this video, seeing the imagery and kinda being reminded of it was OOF. Not quite triggering, but definitely made me feel sick in the sort of way one might with a level of depression or anxiety.
Dude as someone who's studying psych at one of the top universities in the US, I can tell you right now that bipolar and ADHD do not make it impossible to control your whims. The combo may make hyperfixations really, really interesting and motivating to pursue but you always keep control of your actions. Even bipolar people who go into depressive states can still differentiate and act between right and wrong
Citing buzzfeed as your source for proof that someone is abusive isn't really credible though. Just saying.
@@Beer_Dad1975that buzzfeed article was the one way that the victims Katie and Robyn could get their story out. John has some weird shit that he didn't delete on his Twitter that proves that did this creepy stuff to them. His blogspot has the evidence of his intentions as well. It was also unfortunately an open secret.
one symptom of a mania _is_ hypersexuality but you still have a moral compass, it doesn't change your tastes or what attracts you, and it doesn't make you seek out a partner. these were sustained "relationships", far exceeding the length of time of a manic episode anyway.
ADHD as an excuse doesn't make sense at all.
@@goreweeb4566It's still the court of public opinion though isn't it, and the hyper-emotive language he uses in the video makes it clear he's not being objective. I guess UA-cam isn't journalism so I should lower my expectations.
@@Beer_Dad1975this video and channel is literal vomit, as in regurgitation. Wonder what would happen if all these plagiarizing amateur psychiatrists would find if they looked in the mirror, or looked at this saber guy under a microscope. I’m not defending Jon K, no need, he’s fast to admit his guilt. But everyone loves a riches to shit story so much nowadays they just whisper down the lane until every fucked up person becomes an absolute monster in the eyes of the casual passerby.
I just hate sitting by watching “content creators” make their bones by tearing apart the very same name recognition that allows their channel any traffic.
Sorry to spew this as a reply but it was on my mind and you were the first commenter after scrolling through dozens that wasn’t just jumping on the villagers with pitchforks train.
You know that kind of trauma as a kid really does explain alot of ren and stimpy and what made it so uncomfortable with me. Like it has been said though doesnt excuse his awful actions. Overall between him and Butch Hartman I think its important to give more credit to the rest of the teams behind cartoons. Side not not exactly ren and stimpy related but john also did a kickstarter that went bad you might want to look into.
Saber I'm surprised you didn't mention that whole "Cans without labels" fiasco that REALLY did a hit on John K's reputation with fans. A lot of people were angry about his departure that when he did came back and promised fans a pilot on GoFundMe and pretty much took thousands in donations, tooks decades to make and never even finished the episode which he promised to eagerly supporting fans. If I remember correctly he had no leg to stand on as he lost a lot of supporters. Someone correct me if I messed up info in that.
I think it was like 9 years in production. Even on his own(ish) John is terrible with deadlines. Plus the short was trash
It's so much worse than that. He also promised a secondary short featuring his character Sody Pop, a character who was a literal jailbait fetish character. It got cancelled because of.... obvious reasons..... but it also got to the point where his backers had to harass him endlessly to finish it because he literally decided he didn't feel like doing it any more.
@@daniexists6 Wasn't that character based on a real girl he knew?
@@redpanda6497That makes it worse
He announced the project in 2012 and released it in 2019. 7 years.
This is why you tend to find the best jokes that push the line in non-adult shows.
Adult shows that can get away with anything don't have to be clever with how they handle mature subject matter, which often results in lazy writing.
One of the fun trivia notes about the animation style choice. The creator made it a artist rule to not use the same facial expressions with the characters through our the show's run. It was to encourage something new and creative with each scene produced. That's why the show is known for it's such extreme moderate tone with the animation expressions.
Ren & Stimpy was one of the shows that my mother banned me from watching when I was growing up. Looking back, I'm now very grateful for that
I remember our neighbor told my mom that, “Only a guy licked by the devil could’ve made this show.” Ga how true was she.
Really? Damn. My Mother only banned stuff containing blood, sex, cursing, and violence. She let me watch Ren and Stimpy.
@@ricardocantoral7672 I was raised in a very religious household so for me it was anything that had magic, monsters, aliens, superheroes, or humans and animals talking to each other in it was banned as they were all against God. Also wasn't allowed to watch The Simpsons because that was an "adult" cartoon
@@ricardocantoral7672 ren and stimpy has blood in it, very rarely though
@@x-mobius0ne that last one doesnt make sense... i never read the bible but doesnt a snake tell adam and eve to eat a bad apple? animals and humans talking to eachother was literally a key part of the bible
"You would think having more artistic freedom would make a better show, but surprisingly the network interference and censorship actually helped keep the humor"
Believe it or not, producers, networks, and executives often improve the quality of media. The "artist's vision" is often flexible and can be improved. Movie and show production is a team effort of sharing ideas between writers, directors, producers, etc. Think about what happened to the Star Wars prequels when George Lucas was given full control. Or in this case, John K with Ren and Stimpy.
Yeah, but I think I can go too far. If its too safe or too preachy like a lot of todays shows have become, then it's also terrible.
Not to mention, I'm just tired of youtubers bleeping words, saying phrase like the poke, toaster bath, snuggle struggle, or bad guys from ww2, because we "must protect the kids" when youtube has a whole seperate platform for friggen kids. Hearing about POS going to jail because of struggle snuggling is just insulting to victims of SA too, it almost like mocking them, even though i know thats not what the creators are doing, not intentionally anyways. But i bet if i asked a SA victim if they have ever had to confront their snuggle struggler, they'd slap the shit outta me for mocking them.
I think it's all about balance, which pretty much applied to everything in life honestly.
@@Cman04092 Oh I absolutely agree that there needs to be a balance. Movies with strictly profit motives or too much studio changes/demands have ruined way too many movies. We should be careful not to oversimplify reality, the real world is very complicated and nuanced. Studios can ruin projects, improve projects, or even both at the same time. And there is content being made today by studios that's trying too hard to be safe or preachy, there's also artistic creators that are trying too hard to be safe or preachy (cough cough Santa Inc.)
But there's also amazing content that's some of the best media being made. Also, while shows like Arcane or Watchmen 2019 can push envelopes, we shouldn't discount shows like Hilda or Bluey just because they're "safe for kids."
So to recap: Studios can make things better or they can make them worse. Artistic visions can be inherently good or bad. Safe or preachy can be good or bad. Edgy and political can also be good or bad.
I think the best way to approach things is talk about specific examples, like "in this show, I think the studio should have had more oversight so they could've helped make the best version of the artist's vision as possible."
@@Cman04092 I've seen plenty of UA-camrs use the actual words, sometimes even in their video titles, without getting demonetized. The ones censoring themselves are just overreacting and blaming the platform for it. I wrote for a UA-cam channel, and the reality is that the censorship is automated and can feel pretty random, so people just censor themselves to hell because they expect the worst. This one's egregious because the dude's like "I won't talk about it because of some fake restrictions I made up, so go read a BUZZFEED ARTICLE." Like jfc, referring someone to an expose on fucking Buzzfeed feels like a joke you'd see on Bojack Horseman.
Honestly that quote about "pain makes great art, but you don't have to keep inflicting pain to make great art" gave me goosebumps
I don't know if Saber brings it up, but Katie is still in the animation business -- she recently directed some of the Hulu Animaniacs!
You'll have to watch all the way to 43:20, but Saber lists all the shows (including the Animaniacs revival) that Ms. Rice worked on.
That's incredibly and hilariously ironic, because back in the mid-1990's, John K. infamously gave a scathing anonymous review about the original Animaniacs claiming it was "made by people who couldn't draw." Now one of his victims ended up working on the reboot of the show he so hated.
Good for her. She deserves it
Good for Katie Rice
I feel so sorry for Robyn and Katie 😓
Edit : Jonh flew too close to the sun
Bro was first GG
Same
As do I.
Those two aré brave
And was also in the gutter?
Amazing Show.
Terrible Creator.
That's all I got to say.
Space Madness was my favorite episode!
I think John is a good example of what I hate about the misconceptions about "the cycle of abuse". Abused people don't necessarily become abusers BECAUSE they were abused, at the end of the day, it's still a choice. You still choose whether you want to be a good person or a bad person. The pain and influences of your past may create certain struggles on that journey, but that doesn't excuse you from making that choice. Because of my horrible childhood, I understand emotional manipulation, I understand how to emotionally control others, and in fact I know I have the capacity to be very good at it, and every day I make the choice NOT to do that. Do I struggle with that sometimes and find myself falling into those patterns because it's easy? Yes. But is it still my choice to turn away from that at the end of the day? Yes. The pain of his past is tragic and I am so sorry for him for that, but that is no excuse for him to pass that pain on to others. Ever.
If it is truly your choice to avoid emotionally manipulating others, and you know it's bad for you to that, why don't you avoid emotionally manipulating others all the time? Why must you fall into those patterns if it really is up to you?
You're right it's always a choice. Like I can either choose to be a drug addict or commit suicide...but at least I have a "choice" I guess
@@CazaDeYorkok groomer
@@thagodwecreate5179 Yes but unless people see therapy, it's very hard to due that your self. Making Ren and Stimpy defiantly made him happy, but thats not enough to give him the will power to break the cycle. Especially if the show is hard to work on.
@orangeslash1667 well said I've been in therapy many times. I've detoxed dozens of times. Rehabs. Breathing ex, exercising ext I try really hard but the depression is relentless. No meds other than opiates have worked hence the chronic relapsing. I'm going to continue trying. Thank you for your comment. Apprec it. Peace n Love
As a Canadian, I apologize for John K. Just everything about John K.
You don't have to Apologize for him.
I am disappointed in him, he is Canadian and animator (both things that I am), as well as the creator of one of the most influential cartoons no less. He could have been someone I could look up to.
Well, you gave us Danny Antonucci (creator of Ed Edd n Eddy), so we'll forgive you Canada.
He’s Canadian?
But it’s not your fault 😢
Funny how pain can make people react in two polar opposite ways. Some people pass that pain onto others, while others (like Robin Williams and Keanu Reeves) use their resources to help those around them, because they don't want others to suffer like they do. I notice this in my every day life too. Trauma can bring out the best or the worst in people, and I really respect the people who break the cycle and try to make the world around them a better place.
Same with being disabled. It either makes you more sympathetic to the issues of others, or it makes you bitter and nasty. I’ve seen both. I’m disabled myself. The loneliness and frustration can make people very bitter.
True. Pain can become evil or good depending on the mind that is suffering.
It’s almost as if there are good and bad people despite upbringing
@@Wolfie54545 It’s kind of wild card from what I’ve seen. There are people who choose either break the cycle of abuse or continue it.
They can either come out good or bad, and John came out bad.
Eh. You're painting with too broad a brush. People who are the focal point of VIOLENCE act like John K. That's not the same type of pain Williams and Reeves had to endure. It's not about better or worse, it's about the nature of the experience. It's not even debatable at this point; people, and especially children who are the subjects of physical violence and emotional manipulation do tend to behave that way when they get older. We know FOR A FACT that experiencing this type of abuse causes PHYSICAL, MEASURABLE CHANGES to the brain. It's a very difficult matter to weigh, requiring us to wade through a hell of a lot of nuance if we want to understand the phenomenon accurately, and I'm also NOT saying that this just magically erases a victim's own responsibility for their own actions. But any interpretation of this scenario that does not recognize and adjust for the fact that abuse survivors are in a very literal sense brain damaged is, in itself, a further form of abuse.
The Adult Party Cartoon is proof sometimes its better to have some kind of restraint.
Limitations foster innovation.
@@CharlesWorkPPL Example: All in The Family's opening was done because their was no budget for a full orchestra. That simple opening with Archie and Edith is regarded as one of the most famous in TV history. All because of a lack of money!
@@ricardocantoral7672 Also, there are a lot of examples of big studio movies and shows using improvised props. "Aliens" used repainted Transformers Shockwave figures as part of the set, and an episode of Star Trek Next Generation featured Nintendo Power magazine binders with the logo covered.
I love your Fester's Quest profile pic, by the way.
I grew up with Ren and Stimpy and absolutely loved it! Only SpongeBob could come close to this type of humour.
Ren & Stimpy was literally the only cartoon my mother would not let me watch as a kid. She basically thought it was disgusting, and well, she's not wrong. lol
A lot of people called this show as an acid trip
Same here. I caught some episodes in college and watched. I called Mom after: "Mom, I wanted to let you know you were right not to let me watch Ren & Stimpy. That show is foul."
my parents and bros swa the premire and laughed there asses off!
This is why that if I was born in the 90’s I would have watched Rocko’s Modern Life instead.
Invader ZIM the same at times
I gotta admit, this video was the first time I'd ever heard of John K.'s childhood. I knew from other creators that he was a highly controversial and not well-liked person, and while a very small part of me feels bad about his upbringing, that gets completely washed away when his crimes get taken into account.
Like, I'm mildly sorry that happened to him, but it doesn't excuse all of the heinous shit he'd later go on to do.
DragonRagovl vs John K in the upcoming UFC HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
it explain where it comes from. sadly some people that are abused become the abuser as they never win against their past trauma.
some sink themself in self loathing, self hate, addiction, self harm or killing themself, then you have people that find help and get better or be able to live while struggling with their traumas.
john k is a example of someone that instead of trying to move on from his abuse, he just kept trying to impress his abuser. nothing worse than a lost soul trying to seek approval and love from someone that hate you.
this doesnt excuse john k from harming others, but it make alot of sense why he is the way he is. is a shame he never got the proper attention he needed in his life.
Reminds me of Bojack Horseman.
John k did nothing wrong
@@reginaldforthright805 did nothing wrong
I use to work with a guy who was an animator on Ren and Stimpy and worked on like 5 episodes. (Episodes 2-6 of Season 1). He also worked on George Strinks, Little Bear, Hercules, Pepper Ann, The Raccoons and a bunch of other cartoons. He ended up retiring from animating in 2003 and I worked with him at a Radio station in Alberta. He was a pretty cool guy, a little weird but it was very awesome meeting someone who worked on some of the cartoons I watched as a child.
Raccoons is a forgotten gem.
Who were they? Canadian animators rock.
When Bob Camp took over, the high highs and low lows were gone, but something of the spirit remained. I’m pretty sure Wilbur Cobb was a post S2 creation that I always found absolutely hilarious.
Also I think Billy West was able to explain to expand on Ren’s voice character a bit. He never was able to hit space madness levels of greatness but he got close.
All in all I think the later seasons were as good as they could be.
Also feel like there was a little bit of a Dan Harmon/Justin Roiland sort of situation between Bob and John. I don’t know if fire dogs pt 2 was extra unhinged because of John being bitter or whatever but if that was what he would have done on his own Ren and Stimoy would never have come into existence. The tempering influence of others can be a real blessing.
Edit: I actually wrote this before you mentioned Roiland at the end. It’s definitely an apt comparison. 👌
When I was studying animation in college, I had a prof who worked with John K. and told us about this "open secret" (among some other really gross "norms" in the industry at the time). I naively thought that something was done about it back then based on the way he spoke about it. When the two girls finally spoke out about things, I was deeply appalled, because I knew even before getting to that part of the story, that people knew about this abuse and did nothing about it.
Apart from that, all the profs in my animation course seemed to think the same thing of John K.: The man was an asshole on so many levels, but he was talented, so they let it slide. Always.
Hated that mentality then. Hate it now.
That said, I am not blind to the influence John K. brought to the animation world, and it does make sense why his work did that. I just personally *never* liked the guy based on *everything* I heard about him from people who had either worked with or met him in person.
Corruption of power and greed. In a place where they accept it as long is at satisfies their greed. The amount of crimes Hollywood, and the media industrial complex have covered up about the world in general pales in comparison to the amount of crimes they covered up crimes they witnessed, and knew about for years.
Even when it started to break with MeToo, the same narcissistic intentions surfaced by there being people that lie about what happened to them for money, and fame. The era of negativity farming, and outrage farming for faux victims, which essentially destroys the entire point of the movement. It wasn't done for disgust at the lack of humanity, and empathy for victims at all. It became a political weapon, like we're seeing on a worldwide level.
Oh, Boo hoo! They loved it....
I saw some clips of this show as a kid and was already traumatized by that one scene where we see Ren's bite from the mosquito. This show's insanity definitely reflects its creator, even if it is unintentional.
Please don't equate being an abuser to having mental health issues. The two do not go hand-in-hand.
@@LexYeen Not to mention that disturbing creative output usually doesn't reflect on the author at all. By that logic Junji Ito would be one of the most deranged people on the planet. John K. is just an abusive asshole, with or without his show.
@@ninjatoriumnova2483Junji Ito probably is deranged but his manga is his therapeutic outlet so his derangement is contained to the art panels so to speak.
@@princesspikachu3915 Sure, in the "he likes really freaky horror stuff" sense. He's not an abuser, a murderer, or an eldritch terror, as far as anyone can tell. Not to mention that the original comment overlooks that Ren & Stimpy wasn't just John's creation, and even beyond that, there was a whole studio of people working on the show, and those people liked doing it when they weren't being abused by their boss. Jumping to conclusions about the author because of their work is a tale as old as time, and it always becomes laughable in retrospect. Of course, there are exceptions (if somebody keeps making books about heroic Klansman, it's not a reach to say they are probably racist), but there's nothing inherently problematic about Ren & Stimpy, it's just gross.
Studios that should be on the next on the "What Ruined" series
1. Amblimation
2. Klaskey Cuspo
3. Manglobe
4. Rankin/Bass
5. Studio Ghibli
i get all but studio ghibli for a what ruined series. because from what know studio ghibli is a international company that gets different animation from the world and has done nothing wrong with their company.
@Monkey1990100 They don't have many successors to keep the studio upfloat. Almost all of their young directors left in droves. The only people left are Miyazaki and his so Goro.
+1 for Klasky-Csupo, another studio with great potential that was squandered through mismanagement.
Technically he did do a video for Klaskey Cuspo for what ruined RUGRATS
@@Shantosh9550Apparently, they found a new successor to Miyazaki.
An animator who previously worked on Evangelion, but it’s probably not Hideaki Anno.
I remember when I lived in north east US. My then neighbor and his younger brother knocked on my door and said, "you have to come watch this new cartoon, it starts in 15 minutes." It was the first time I ever heard of or watched Ren & Stimpy. I recall the episode with "eeee glazed ham." I laughed so hard that I fell off the couch! Tears were coming out my eyes, I was literally rolling on the ground laughing.