This is the key. Digital modelers have an inherent high end fizziness that isn’t horrible to me, but is undesirable. This fixes that. Can’t thank you enough lol
I'm impressed that you ever had tube amps. I started playing not long before digital modeling and multieffects became commonplace and affordable. In my early teens I had a fizzy sounding solid state practice amp, then I got a few pedals. Then I got a fizzy solid state combo amp that was loud enough to hear over a drummer. I've bought plenty of analog pedals since then but it's been dominated by modeling, digital multieffects and direct recording. I was born in the mid 80s for context.
I had an older brother that had more money then sense when I was in my earlier days of guitar. Which meant tube amps that I had no business really playing. But 🤷♂️
Thanks for the video, this is helpful. There are a few ways to tame the high end fizz / harshness in modelers, but emulating a speaker's natural response via para-EQ seems like a very logical approach. I will try this on my next patch. Thanks again!
Can't wait to try this out tomorrow ! Interesting that you sweep the notch down for more top end, ive never thought about that ! Great work man, thank you !
Thank you! I just bought a Stomp XL in an attempt to downsize from an FM9 Turbo (which is overkill for my bedroom playing) and have been frustrated trying to get it to sound nearly as good. This video certainly helps to narrow the gap!
Interesting choice with the global EQ, I wanna experiment with that, but one thing that I can imagine being wrong with it is that EQing is gonna be very amp and cab specific, so I tend to either use the hi-cut on the cab block and/or use an EQ block to hone in on frequencies I do or don’t want. A trick I like to use to create my tones is to run a really good drum program like Krimh or Ezdrummer 3 as a reference point while adjusting the amp so I immediately come out with something that’s going to mix well. I find that trying to dial the overall sound of an amp in an isolated fashion is too deceptive on the ears. You’ll think you have THE TONE, but then you go to put it in a track and it’s totally garbage. So having professionally mixed drums alongside helps mitigate the guesswork of where you’re trying to go with your tone
This was very helpful!! I set my parametric eq to remove 4db at 345hz and remove 6.5 dbs at 7.5k and my patches sound and feel way better! Thanks again for sharing this.
Clean 2 definitely sounded better with the EQ on, but much of that was also the added clarity from the -4dB mud cut at 345Hz that you didn't discuss. The other examples had 0dB on the low EQ.
Thank a lot! I haven't tried this yet but your demonstration explained my experience with the high end fizz and sort of plasticky unnatural or un-amp like tone s I have been struggling with. You have a new subscriber
Awsome video! I needed this I use the HX stomp the same way! I have a pedalboard with drives and use the stomp for amps and have noticed that my pedals don’t sound good with all of the amps
@jasonquarles1258 yeah I do it with my main stereo amp patch. Use a stereo parametric EQ block after your amps/cabs and experiment with the frequency and amount of cut. It’s not perfect or ideal but you can typically find a good balance.
Great stuff. I was taming the brightness of the new stock caps by running them in parallel with the legacy cabs (which were way too dark). I'm going to try your way, I think it's clean and less DSP intensive than my way. Thanks!
Nice video, AM. What I wonder is how is it that this isn't already taken into account in the default presets/cabs/IRs? The folks that created the modeling algorithms and did the work of creating the patches know about EQ curves, have good ears, and lots of gear to measure/compare/view frequencies between the modeler and the real gear they're modeling.
Yeah man idk 🤷♂️. There was a massive improvement with the 3.5 cab update. But ultimately it depends on the amp or cab model. There are so many factors that go into what the “tone” is, including our own perception and “ear”. But I’m just going by my ear and what sounds right to me 🤷♂️. Thanks for the comment, brother!
I was gonna say the latest upgrade 3.5 has mad the cabs more useable. There’s soooooooo many ir out there and I wasn’t going to spend a bunch of money experimenting. So far i think helix is amazing
I have in real life a Marshall 412 with 1970s greenback 25 watt 16 ohm and the big one instead of 75 hz its the rare 55 hz Jimmy Hendrix favorite. Anyway the modeled version to the real green back is pretty close except the modeled is 75 hz. Late 1950s through early 1970s they didnt make the large amount of bass speakers as they did starting in the 1980s with all the 410 cabs i got my 4 12 inch green backs from a 1979s acoustic cabinet considered for guitar and bass use. Clean tones are amazing as well as driven. I paid 100 bucks from a little music store full of vintage gear. The speakers alone re worth 300 to 500 usd each. So if you find an acoustic cab with 4 aluminum dust cones get it.
Ive owned every line 6 modeler from the bean to the DT the x3 the hd pro x and with each product the firmware upgrades were very few. With the helix each new upgrade i like a new piece of kit. This i think will keep the helix going for years. Because its base system seemed designed to change and adding without having to change the hardware. Lots of io its just a wonderful modeler. This is why used helix the few that are out there seem to only drop a couple hundred bucks unless its beat up. Ive been looking to find a helix floor used and they hang around 1100 bucks the lt 750. The rack I’ve seen go a little cheaper but thats becausevyou need to purchase a 450 dollar floor controller i dont think you can use the FBV floor units with helix.
Great tip! Works really well with Helix cabs. Do you use similar approach with amp captures/profiles? And what about running a real tube amp through loadbox and simulating mic’d cab with impulse response? Same eq concept?
nice vid about the importance of subtractive eq in general, but especially in the realm of modelers...i watched a vid (can't find it online anymore) about dialing in your cab sim as well, as the high end tends to be a huge source of fizziness and aggressive highs in these...is this another way to dial in speaker responses that are more like the real speakers?...
Thanks man! My compressor is usually set with the compression and blend just a touch under half way, about 11 o’clock and volume just a tiny bit over unity.
Bought some of your presets, so good! I heard you mentioning in other videos, but can't find where. But what is the reason/benefit of using the eq instead of just using the high/low cuts on your IRs/stock cabs?
Awesome man. The goal is too cut out the unnatural or yucky frequencies while still keeping the high end presence or “air” that guitar speakers naturally have. In my experience, if you just run a high cut at 7.5k, it kinda neuters the tone. But it’s all amp model/situation dependent. Just my thought process. Thanks for reaching out!
Strange that almost everyone dials out all bottom and all top to get rid of 'digital' sound, when it would be super easy for the progammers to do so............why do they leave in fizzyness? I'm thinking, it depends on what your listening to your tones out of. Some high end speakers can deal with 6-8K much better than cheaper speakers.
Wouldn't it be better to use high cut on your cab instead, then it wouldn't take up an extra block. oh by the way are you using ear buds for monitoring, or blue tooth, if so how and what kind? thanks for your response.
If you were just using the high cut, yes. But since I’m making specific cuts at certain frequencies I chose to do it all in the EQ block. Yes I’m using the ear buds to monitor. KZ AS10s. I’ve really enjoyed them over the past few years.
You should be able to pull up a parametric eq block after your amp/cab. Then it’s just a matter of dialing in a cut using that instead of the global EQ. As I mentioned, I start with a 3-6db cut at 7.5k, Q of 1.5-2. Then adjust to taste.
This is the key. Digital modelers have an inherent high end fizziness that isn’t horrible to me, but is undesirable. This fixes that. Can’t thank you enough lol
I'm impressed that you ever had tube amps. I started playing not long before digital modeling and multieffects became commonplace and affordable. In my early teens I had a fizzy sounding solid state practice amp, then I got a few pedals. Then I got a fizzy solid state combo amp that was loud enough to hear over a drummer. I've bought plenty of analog pedals since then but it's been dominated by modeling, digital multieffects and direct recording. I was born in the mid 80s for context.
I had an older brother that had more money then sense when I was in my earlier days of guitar. Which meant tube amps that I had no business really playing. But 🤷♂️
Thanks for the video, this is helpful. There are a few ways to tame the high end fizz / harshness in modelers, but emulating a speaker's natural response via para-EQ seems like a very logical approach. I will try this on my next patch. Thanks again!
Can't wait to try this out tomorrow ! Interesting that you sweep the notch down for more top end, ive never thought about that ! Great work man, thank you !
Thank you! I just bought a Stomp XL in an attempt to downsize from an FM9 Turbo (which is overkill for my bedroom playing) and have been frustrated trying to get it to sound nearly as good. This video certainly helps to narrow the gap!
Thanks, dad.
Interesting choice with the global EQ, I wanna experiment with that, but one thing that I can imagine being wrong with it is that EQing is gonna be very amp and cab specific, so I tend to either use the hi-cut on the cab block and/or use an EQ block to hone in on frequencies I do or don’t want.
A trick I like to use to create my tones is to run a really good drum program like Krimh or Ezdrummer 3 as a reference point while adjusting the amp so I immediately come out with something that’s going to mix well. I find that trying to dial the overall sound of an amp in an isolated fashion is too deceptive on the ears. You’ll think you have THE TONE, but then you go to put it in a track and it’s totally garbage. So having professionally mixed drums alongside helps mitigate the guesswork of where you’re trying to go with your tone
This was very helpful!! I set my parametric eq to remove 4db at 345hz and remove 6.5 dbs at 7.5k and my patches sound and feel way better! Thanks again for sharing this.
Awesome! Glad to hear it!
Clean 2 definitely sounded better with the EQ on, but much of that was also the added clarity from the -4dB mud cut at 345Hz that you didn't discuss. The other examples had 0dB on the low EQ.
Yeah that a good point. That particular patch is the one I used the most and I’ve adjusted the EQ to the humbuckers I usually use.
You look like Trey Anastasio. Thanks for the video!
Thank a lot! I haven't tried this yet but your demonstration explained my experience with the high end fizz and sort of plasticky unnatural or un-amp like tone s I have been struggling with. You have a new subscriber
Super sick tip man! it sounds crazy good on my presets i have made!!
Awsome video! I needed this I use the HX stomp the same way! I have a pedalboard with drives and use the stomp for amps and have noticed that my pedals don’t sound good with all of the amps
Glad it was helpful! Happy tone hunting!
@@averagemike7554 was curious how you would do this trick with two amps?
@jasonquarles1258 yeah I do it with my main stereo amp patch. Use a stereo parametric EQ block after your amps/cabs and experiment with the frequency and amount of cut. It’s not perfect or ideal but you can typically find a good balance.
Great stuff. I was taming the brightness of the new stock caps by running them in parallel with the legacy cabs (which were way too dark). I'm going to try your way, I think it's clean and less DSP intensive than my way. Thanks!
A little EQ goes a long way! Hope it’s helpful. Happy tone hunting!
Great video. Love how you used the speaker frequency response as the foundation. New subscriber!
yeah- this makes total sense...
Nice video, AM. What I wonder is how is it that this isn't already taken into account in the default presets/cabs/IRs? The folks that created the modeling algorithms and did the work of creating the patches know about EQ curves, have good ears, and lots of gear to measure/compare/view frequencies between the modeler and the real gear they're modeling.
Yeah man idk 🤷♂️. There was a massive improvement with the 3.5 cab update. But ultimately it depends on the amp or cab model. There are so many factors that go into what the “tone” is, including our own perception and “ear”.
But I’m just going by my ear and what sounds right to me 🤷♂️.
Thanks for the comment, brother!
I was gonna say the latest upgrade 3.5 has mad the cabs more useable. There’s soooooooo many ir out there and I wasn’t going to spend a bunch of money experimenting. So far i think helix is amazing
I have in real life a Marshall 412 with 1970s greenback 25 watt 16 ohm and the big one instead of 75 hz its the rare 55 hz Jimmy Hendrix favorite. Anyway the modeled version to the real green back is pretty close except the modeled is 75 hz. Late 1950s through early 1970s they didnt make the large amount of bass speakers as they did starting in the 1980s with all the 410 cabs i got my 4 12 inch green backs from a 1979s acoustic cabinet considered for guitar and bass use. Clean tones are amazing as well as driven. I paid 100 bucks from a little music store full of vintage gear. The speakers alone re worth 300 to 500 usd each. So if you find an acoustic cab with 4 aluminum dust cones get it.
Ive owned every line 6 modeler from the bean to the DT the x3 the hd pro x and with each product the firmware upgrades were very few. With the helix each new upgrade i like a new piece of kit. This i think will keep the helix going for years. Because its base system seemed designed to change and adding without having to change the hardware. Lots of io its just a wonderful modeler. This is why used helix the few that are out there seem to only drop a couple hundred bucks unless its beat up. Ive been looking to find a helix floor used and they hang around 1100 bucks the lt 750. The rack I’ve seen go a little cheaper but thats becausevyou need to purchase a 450 dollar floor controller i dont think you can use the FBV floor units with helix.
Correction above i typed dt i meant xt
Great tip! Works really well with Helix cabs. Do you use similar approach with amp captures/profiles? And what about running a real tube amp through loadbox and simulating mic’d cab with impulse response? Same eq concept?
Just depends on the situation and the IR or speaker sim that’s being used. But yes, those EQs are shared with most guitar speakers.
nice vid about the importance of subtractive eq in general, but especially in the realm of modelers...i watched a vid (can't find it online anymore) about dialing in your cab sim as well, as the high end tends to be a huge source of fizziness and aggressive highs in these...is this another way to dial in speaker responses that are more like the real speakers?...
What are your compressor settings? It seems that you have that nailed really well also. Unless I am just hearing things? Great video though!
Thanks man! My compressor is usually set with the compression and blend just a touch under half way, about 11 o’clock and volume just a tiny bit over unity.
That's good. I like that.
Would you mind uploading some of these presets?
Bought some of your presets, so good!
I heard you mentioning in other videos, but can't find where. But what is the reason/benefit of using the eq instead of just using the high/low cuts on your IRs/stock cabs?
Awesome man. The goal is too cut out the unnatural or yucky frequencies while still keeping the high end presence or “air” that guitar speakers naturally have. In my experience, if you just run a high cut at 7.5k, it kinda neuters the tone. But it’s all amp model/situation dependent. Just my thought process.
Thanks for reaching out!
Thank you for sharing! Will try both and see what best suits my band :)
@@averagemike7554
Strange that almost everyone dials out all bottom and all top to get rid of 'digital' sound, when it would be super easy for the progammers to do so............why do they leave in fizzyness? I'm thinking, it depends on what your listening to your tones out of. Some high end speakers can deal with 6-8K much better than cheaper speakers.
Ahhh interesting thought! I could definitely see that
Wouldn't it be better to use high cut on your cab instead, then it wouldn't take up an extra block. oh by the way are you using ear buds for monitoring, or blue tooth, if so how and what kind? thanks for your response.
If you were just using the high cut, yes. But since I’m making specific cuts at certain frequencies I chose to do it all in the EQ block.
Yes I’m using the ear buds to monitor.
KZ AS10s. I’ve really enjoyed them over the past few years.
@@averagemike7554 Hi, what about latency? When I last tried bluetooth headphones (a few years ago), latency was unplayable. Sorry for bad English.
Any ideas for the podgo my global EQ looks different. My laptop crapped out so just editing from the board controls.
You should be able to pull up a parametric eq block after your amp/cab. Then it’s just a matter of dialing in a cut using that instead of the global EQ. As I mentioned, I start with a 3-6db cut at 7.5k, Q of 1.5-2. Then adjust to taste.
@@averagemike7554 thanks for the info!
@@davidforsythe8231 good luck!
do you have any high gain patches?
Not yet but I’ve been working on some medium and high gain tones inspired by the 2000s guitar tones we all know and love 😉
here's an idea: get a real amp!