HX Stomp vs. VINTAGE Marshall | Can You Hear The Difference?
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- Can the Line6 HX Stomp compare to a REAL 1971 Marshall JMP?
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The fact people are now comparing these is insane. What a time to be a guitar player in a bedroom.
Haha. This is totally correct.
14 year old me, during commercial breaks of MTV Cribs - "Zoom 505 for the win"
You are probably a bedroom guitar player.
I play 5+ gigs a week and THANKS GOD FOR THE HX STOMP!
Yeah but they won't sound like that at bedroom volume. At all. The amp, nor the Stomp.
@@mikegoodwin1498 that’s not really the case from my own personal experience with the stomp. My tube amp of course has to be at a certain volume to breakup the amp a bit naturally and get that drive but, my hx tone sounds the same lower or at full volume..
@@JosePineda-jn8jk what you pair the hx stomp with? Pa speakers or cab ? I’m clueless
When you consider the price of the HX stomp, the fact that the Marshall is just one of a ton of different amp models, and how good the Stomp sounded... It is pretty awesome!
Yeah plus remember they used 2 mics on the real cab. Using the HX edit software on the computer they could've change so many more features and made them identical.
after spending thousands of dollars and countless hours building the perfect sound, i have found that I am the only one who cares when playing live.. 98% of the crowd only cares that i hit the right notes at the right time
Absolutely...but...playing a great amp with a great tone behind you can often make you play better. I know it does for me. When my tone is on point, I’m just enjoying it so much that I play more inspired. That all sounds hoakey but it’s where I am mentally on stage.
people feel it. they can tell. I mean, if everybody in the band sounds great and your tone is mediocre they maybe won't notice. But if the drummer has shit drums and uses shit skins, and the bassist plays through a shitty bass amp, the singer uses some bargain-basement microphone, the keyboardist is playing through a Casio, and both guitar players are using a squire through PODs..... the audience will definitely notice and feel it. The point is, it all adds up and that's the point of good sound.
Absolutely true
@@joeysgear1419 you would think that but really, they don’t. The fact is that nowadays cheap gear isn’t bad anymore (it definitely used to be) you d be amazed at the amounts killers out there shredding up rooms with inexpensive gear.
Plus its very easy to get lost in the gear and forget that its all about the music really, no one cares about gear if the songs aren’t good, and no amount of gear can change that (to my chagrin lol)
agreed, because those great amp head and cab at times, ended up bad because of lame FOH / PA or lame sound engineer. so at the very end of the line, I'd only care for playing accuracy or the fun of improvisation. you get my thumb up sir.
As I always say "context is everything." The amp sounds great but would need to be EQ'd to suit the mix. The Helix was closer to the usable tone I would want. It is all very subjective, but the Helix would be my choice.
I honestly liked the HX more. So did my pocketbook. And my back.
Same here. I liked both but the end tone comparison I preferred the HX a lot more. Even so, with the full sized helix and its wealth of EQs, signal routing, and dynamic control they could have gotten a lot closer, albeit with more blocks. The level of control on the full helix is insane.
JM A the signal path in the stomp was pretty simple. I believe they could have gotten closer with a eq block and 3rd party IRs. There was good amount of external eq on the real amp.
i ditched my 73' Silverface Twin Reverb and my Orange CRC120 AND my Pedalboard to an Ax-8 because of back and knee problems. two years of almost daily gigs and no roadies broke my back litterally.
Record with the Marshall, tour/session with the HX stomp. You have to be insane to haul a 1971 Super Lead on a tour, think about the things that could happen to it.
The HX had more clarity but the Marshall has more punch and better midrange.
For the audience the difference is null. For the player it's the feel. For me, at least, with an amp I don't have the doubt in my head that it might not sound right or it could benefit from more tweaking and I just accept it as is. With Digital I always feel there is something else to try and it never ends.
bhosterman totally agree!
Exactly
Kinda ...
The difference isnt null to the audience.
"If it sounds good, it is good."
The audience isnt familiar with the sound of an amp. They are fimiliar with the "profile". They recognize what guitarist and instrumentalist dont always perceive. The mix. To them "something doesnt sound right" is suficient. You aint gotta be gordon ramsey to know if the chef in the back of chillis made your chicken right. Lol
In truth they are not left with our part played. They are influenced by the producers art in studio or the sound engineer live.
Simple. :)
I do agree with the vibe of the comment.
AARON BROWN my bad. My comment was in the context of a live performance.
Interesting. I talked with Rick this morning about this coming out today and we were saying that using different cab ir's, though not the Marshall models in the Stomp might be a way to get closer to the actual sound of a live amp in the room. Which is a fascinating idea.
Also this is where I remind us all that parts in amps in that era were plus or minus 10% (or sometimes 20%), so the values of capacitors and resistors in each amp were substantially different. So though the Stomp doesn't sound like THAT '71, it might sound like A '71 Marshall they used to build the original model.
Love this video and the idea of tweaking the Stomp alongside real world gear. Wish I was there for the fun.
Keith
I wonder if amp/speaker interaction is making for the more scooped midrange in the real amp. Fractal and Sgear have controls(Z control) that mimics a speaker being driven hard by a tube power amp.
Very solid point. I’ve read many times that the Line6 team are gear nerds that went through a pain-staking process to analyze the components of what goes into the Helix line. Makes sense that this Marshall may sound even closer to the one used for component matching at their studio.
I wish you were there too Keith.
They did not want you there? Oh, i can feel you, Keith. Forget about those bullies, your channel is ace :)
I'm sure a decent IR would help the HX Stomp immensely.
they should have IR'D that exact cab beforehand and then shot it out
I was about to say the same
Really impressed with how the Stomp held up. I've always felt higher gain was always Line 6's weak spot but this sounded good. I think the real amp sounds better but shoot the stomp sounded fantastic.
indeed I use mine for practice, jam sessions and pedalboard.
@@GuitarsAndSynths RB wasn't looking for your reply LOL...
@@waxman9550 nobody was looking for your unnecessarily rude and unsolicited opinion
@@benskurbe Hey Ben your a SIMP - Google it....
@@waxman9550 Uhhh, "you're" .................. SIMP
When you factor in how close it can get, and then consider it’s only ONE preset on the HX, you realize the power of these digital modelers. I still exclusively play tube amps, but I think we can see the writing on the wall for physical amplifiers being surpassed by modelers. It’s really just a matter of time until physical tube amps become a niche portion of the market.
What matters the most to me, is that once you dialled it in, I preferred your Helix patch over the real thing. Did not expect that, and I'm saying that as someone who has been repairing, modding and building tube amps for decades.
I think the key to making digital rigs sound good is having real world experience with real tube amps. If you know how to make a tube amp sound great, you can do it to a digital modeler too.
Defiantly, the funny thing is having used my AX8 for the past three years I've come to learn more about how other amps worked that I never had access to before, so despite moving away from "real" amps my working knowledge of them and how they work has actually increased
@@RhettShull I think you nailed it here. Having a good understanding of what all the knobs do and how to dial in a good sound in real life makes a HUGE difference. I have found so many people trash talk modern modelers, but then I play them clips of my JCM 900 vs my Helix (2204 amp) and most prefer the Helix. Especially when the same IR is used.
I agree. In the end, I liked the stomp sound a bit more. They are both great and maybe you could tweak the amp, but I loved that stomp sound in the end.
@Daniel Deaton it is amazing what happens in a mix. I have had many great sounding guitar tones vanish in a mix and the opposite is true. Tones that I thought, "Meh, not great but let's hear it in the mix." End up being THE TONE that song needed.
One of the things I realized about having a mini studio of my own and having a Helix (full version), is that you really have to do a lot of trial and error in both Live Amp and Digital DI environments to get the tone you're looking for. In my Helix I "cheat" by using parallel compression and EQ between my amp and cab blocks, as well as inverted-polarity parallel pathway for reverb to get my tone and environment. It's an amazing sound. What's more, is that the pathway is easily reproducible, contained to a single unit, and you can re-create cranked-amp tone with cab resonance (using close reflections) at a bedroom level or headphone level. I can be playing in Madison Square Bedroom with my kid asleep 10 feet away from me. I have respect for all great amps, but the Helix allows me to do things I couldn't ever do in the "real" world. It does the some tweaking though. Peace.
"Madison Square Bedroom" That was GREAT!
@@shane2973 Right? It’s not mine, though. I heard it a while back, I can’t remember from where, but have been using it ever since.
@@micuronium Totally Great!!
The Stomp got close enough that no one but you would really know without the side by side. However, side by side, that amp was phenomenal! It sounds soooo good! I would love the same comparison with the Iridium and a similar IR.
The very first thing I noticed was, that amp sounds exceptional. I’ve owned two over the year with matching cabs and for whatever reason my amps never sounded nearly as good as that one. Could be the wear and tear on mine, the tubes, hours on the speakers, how well the back panels fit, the room, the temperature, how much humidity the speaker cones were holding, value of resistors, capacitors, pots, how dirty the jacks were, if the tube sockets had a little corrosion on one... the list of variables goes on and on... The Stomp sounded really, really, good. It sounded at least as good as the two Marshall’s I’ve owned, and it can do it consistently, has more tweakable options on board, it’s cheaper, virtually maintenance free, and easily transported. It makes sense from so many different angles. And we haven’t even talked about how the sounds sit in a finished final stereo mix before mastering. I’m in.
I'd love to see you record a bunch of tracks with real and digital amps and then get the crew to blind pick their favorite tones. You don't have to try and match sounds - just get great ones. It would be a very interesting vid.
Sooby 2nd that!
I 3rd that
Amazing Idea dude!
So you can’t tell if the tone is great in a track? Are you saying an amp tone is always as good as it “could” be? What stupid thing are you referring to? Are you sure you could tell which is which if the tracks were isolated? You are just the person this test would be for.
@@Sooby007 I guarantee this dude would end up picking the digital rig every time. People like that usually don't have a good ear for tone, they judge with their eyes not their ears.
Only half-way through and enjoying this so much. I was looking for a 3-minute vid, but time flies when ur having fun. Feeling all sciency watching this. Low-key professionalism and honesty. And what a lucky Plexi. She found a great home.
Once output to waveform and played back through nearfield monitors, quality headphones or front of house, digital modeling is just as good. But nearfield monitors are not going to give you the visceral experience of standing in front of a cranked tube and and feeling your guts vibrating in sympathy with your guitar strings. For recording digital is the way to go. But standing in front of a cranked amp and entertaining people is one of those pleasures of life only a few of us get to experience.
you're right, in that situation theres no comparison...real amp all day.
What you're talking about is moving air i.e.:"visceral experience of standing in front of a cranked tube and and feeling your guts vibrating...blah blah blah....
If you're of the opinion that a 600W @ 8 ohms, 300W @ 16 ohms coming out of the Kemper Profiler Power Head thru your back line is not gonna give you a ""visceral experience" then you'd be wrong boyo. lol
There's nothing stopping you from connecting HX Stomp to the power amp input of your cranked amp, at which point you get the exact same experience. Running HX Stomp into studio monitors or a flat speaker is only one option.
AudacityWorks I am doing that and again if I don’t use a real overdrive pedal it’s meh. Don’t gig so real amps win for me. It’s taken years to get decent amps and pedals. There’s no way the modeler sounds or feels better.
Except that in the studio you may not even be in the same room as your amp.
My goal is to have both. To say that I modestly covet Rick's gear is an understatement.
" Hey, we don't have a handwired Blues Breaker with that super rare mod...but we do have this superb Kemper profile..."
We are to the point where that profile will be indistinguishable to 99.99% of listeners and to probably 90% of players...as evidenced my numerous blind comparison vids.
I feel TERRIBLE saying this... I really preferred the Stomp.
Marshall in a box? Yup. It's officially a thing.
Yeah, me too. I can hear the difference but I like the stomp better.
@@johnhoskins6222 Same here watching the video, HX stomp sounds better to my ears. But this is different in real life, I prefer amps. I guess you can't really capture that. You have to feel it for yourself.
I’m not a digital amp guy but the stomp sounded much better. It was so clear.
i hate to admit it but i have the same opinion. just wandering wat is the like/dislike ratio on your comment?
I don’t want to spend thousand on all these amps so Stomp wins just on that for me.
"Do you think that's in the speaker or in the actual amp?" Have the amp on a Suhr Load or something similar, record it DI, have both into the same IR, compare them on a frequency analyzer and any other way you can think of. That way you'll isolate the amp and will be able to tell the difference... Maybe, if you can use Mr. Beato's studio again, try doing an IR of his speaker. Match the amp as close as you can, have the same IR - awesome video, awesome new preset pack :)
I agree - make an IR with the cab/mic/eq chain. Then compare.
This is a good comparison of what the HX Stomp does out of the box, but I think a lot of HX users are savvy enough to look into experimenting with cab and IR blocks. I think a proper comparison would've been what you said - capture IR, use a load box for the Plexi and only the Amp block on the HX
Every bit this! IMO, the internal cabs of the Helix family aren't always the best choice, so comparing them through the same speaker "array" would've been very helpful. They could've even captured an IR of the very cab and mics and load it into the HX Stomp.
I think it’s a bit of both. Ir’s definitely unlock the helix’s potential. I have a helix and a synergy head with soldano module. I’ve ran the helix as a preamp into my syn50 and also ran the synergy module direct into Cubase and used it with ir’s and although the helix definitely doesn’t sound bad it just doesn’t sound as good as the synergy module in any configuration.
@@germiboy I gotta disagree with you on the "a lot of HX users are savvy enough to look into experimenting with cab and IR blocks" bit. In the world of /r/guitarpedals, YT channels like this one, the Line 6 Family Helix Users group on FB, etc., it absolutely appears to be the case. But, for the user that wants to just plug in and play, they aren't.
I've got a friend that swears on his tube amps - and he's tried the Kemper, the HX Stomp, etc. He even used to main an XT Live. It's funny -- as much as I've tried to help him, he just doesn't get IRs and speakers and tweaking. Settings I've made, or others have made, and tweaked to perfection sound excellent to him, but he couldn't dial in a good sound on one to save his life. I sent him some IRs he might like and he never bothered trying them. He picked up an Iridium and sold his HX Stomp. He's happier with the Iridium because it "feels more tube like," which may be an honest criticism, or it may not, but he's never experimented with much more than "it says Fender Deluxe, but it doesn't sound like *my* Fender Deluxe." I think he *finally* got it when I showed him my cheap AC-15 CC1 last time he was in town, which he always thought "lacked body," but I swapped the speaker, and he loves it. I told him "this is why I keep telling you to try out IRs."
Beyond him, I've heard the same criticism from others who have tried the AxeFX, Kemper, or Helix and don't get involved in online groups, forums, etc. They just don't bother digging in to settings they don't understand, or models of real amps they like, trying to perfectly replicate their own amp with the modeler's settings, which will never happen. Every amp is different - even those from the same batch - and even the same speaker/IR/mic will have slightly different characteristics, but some people want *their amp* and end up selling off their HX Stomp or Iridium or whatever because it just doesn't do it perfectly.
Having a $700 machine that gets that close to all of that expensive equipment IS GLORIOUS!!!.... With $700 you don't afford even a mic preamp ... Helix is great
Please, I would love more Video-ception between you and Rick, the collabs you guys do are so high quality in content. Love the showcase of equipment here
when the rolled back tone hits at 9:36, everything else can pack their bags and go home. OUTSTANDING.
It would be fun to listen to the Helix with an IR captured from this exact rig!
My thought exactly. I really think 90% of the difference was his MICed cabinet vs the HX impulse response.
How different would two 1971 Marshall JMPs out of the same factory after 50 years of component drift sound side by side? They probably didn’t even sound the same the day they came out of the factory. This is something I would be interested in hearing.
Good point
Well, just listen to tracks recorded back then. They were new when Hendrix, Page and everyone was recording...
@@Driftuner Yeah but they used different guitars, effects, speakers, mics, etc. Not to mention they all approached the instrument in a different way
Happy to loan you my time machine so you can check it out...
@@ukphonebook good, because mine’s in the shop.
Rhett can play that's for sure
Nice to see you here Matt
thanks man, so can you!
Not so bad yourself bud
Ayyyy its Matt!
As can you big time good sir
To keep things convent, I have gone to a simple 5/10 watt custom champ amp combo I made. It is all hand built from scratch, finger jointed 1 x 12s pine with vintage 12" alnico speaker. It is small, 30 pounds, easy to maintain with just 3 tubes and takes pedals well. I mike it. I love the tone and never heard anything digital sounding that good. The warmth & clarity it has with a custom tone knob by pass switch, just having a volume knob, is amazing.
What's convenient is arriving at the venue, setting down an HX Stomp, plugging in a 1/4" jack straight into the PA system and cracking a beer whhile waiting for your bandmates to haul in all their amps and cabs.....lol
@@hamjohn8737 but the hx’s dont quite feel right
@@Otis-Isom HX feels absolutely right. Guitar, stomp, and cable - all you need. Compare to back braking "real " amp combo, mic ..etc.
@@leosebastian199 while true, I think that the difference in how the amps react and behave as well as the differences in eq and breakup make the amp a tad better in terms of sound. I agree that the hx is worth it and has the benefit of the light weight but the feeling you get from a tube amp in terms of it’s response make it preferable (for me).
@@Otis-Isom this discussion will never end, both are right, both are practical in different situations, but having rhett and rick beato comparing these, it´s not for nothing.
I agree with Rick on the chime, I think its that presence control on the Marshall that brings out that sound.
Marshall. It sounded more alive/dynamic and full as Rick said.
Great idea great demo/comparison.Thanks.
The rolled back sound on the Marshall is everything I've ever wanted in a tone so my vote goes to the Plexi.
Another thing not mentioned on this video, is the fact that they didn't even made an IR of the marshall cab on that room with those mics and set ups specifically to make the comparasion more fair. But keep up the great work bud 🔥😊
I think the question isn’t whether they match perfectly, it’s whether in a live setting, would anyone really notice the difference.
The real question is wether it would sound good in a studio setting.
Not only, also if they are equally enjoyable to play.
Always live U gonna tweak the eq. But 90% of the people didn't recognize a bass from a guitar.
Chris Barrett In a live situation 75% of the people can’t tell what note is playing the bass though
@@jorgemartinpellegrino6940 As a bassist, I agree. So many people obsess over their bass tone. That's fine and all but the audience will wonder why your guitar only has four string or listen to your music on phone speakers.
YOU GUYS are all missing the point.....As a working musician playing covers in a bar, are those patrons going to be able to hear that 10% delta (that some of you claim you hear through your computer speakers or iPhone ear buds) in the sound. As a cover band, and "if" you have a "Marshall [insert model here] or whatever brand amp you choose, once you set your tone on your amp, that's what you sound like......period.
Let's not mention the honky tonk bars you might find yourself in, hell, some of them have aluminum siding....It's not the Hollywood bowl nor the Royal Albert Hall.
There is a huge difference in sound from Clapton's "Sunshine of your love" to Bryan Adams "Cut's like a Knife" to Van Halen's "[Anything"] to Def Leppards Hysteria......so, you have your signature sound with your ONE amp and pedal board, but a cover band has to sound like 'the song' they are performing. With an HX-Stomp, you can go from "Sunshine of your Love" to "Cisco Kid" with one click of the up or down button with the 'Snapshots".....125 snapshots are available at one time and each of them have three sub-snapshots i.e. the intro, the verse and the face melting lead.
So while you are busy trying to make the HX-Stomp sound just like the Marshall in the video, others are busy making a patch that sounds like a Peavey VTM-60 or an Orange or or or......and YOU can download other peoples work for free off the Line-6 website and not do any of the work AT ALL. Hell, you can find the exact amp/cab/Pedal comb/pedal settings for a specific song if you scroll on the website.
After my shows, all the guitar players in the venue want to chat with me about my Peavey T-60 and how I get all those tones out of it....though the T-60 is a versatile (and maybe dated at this point) guitar, all those tones I'm playing from song to song are coming out of the HX-Stomp, not the guitar.....
That's the Beauty of the HX-Stomp.
Fuck no, nobody is going to know the difference. I really didn't hear much difference. In fact if they didn't have everything set up, where they can switch back and forth and instantly compare which was which, these guys probably wouldn't know which was which very easily. That little box is incredible, for its size and the fact it can not only replicate a Marshall, but several other amps. You would need a truck to carry all the different amps, to get the variety this tiny box gives you
This guy! Congrats on the Peavey big guy.
Great point of view! I got HX stomp and hear it through headphones. What do you suggest for a cab/speaker out of this box?
To me, thereal strong point is when you use it to enhance or vary the tone of your amp.
@ham john.... spot on mate....
I've always just dialed in a couple of "suitable" tones I like for a large array of songs on my one amp and a couple of pedals I have.
But like you said.... all things considered in the real world this HX stomp makes A LOT of sence....
Agree, that amp is amazing but the HX Stomp was still impressive
I agree with your Assessment Rhett, they don't sound exactly the same but they both sound really good in their own way. Both are totally useable both in the studio and live. We guitar players are blessed to be living in a time with such great options available to us for gear
I think a good IR would have got rid of the boxy sound of the Helix
yup good IRs made the Helix come alive. Other companies seem to know how to do it better than L6 sadly.
Can you use IR in a live gig or it's only can be used on a computer while in studio?
You can load them directly into your Helix and take with you
Seth Filippo oh okay, thanks,. I heard a lot about IR and heard a lot about this pedal.
Basically I’m more familiar with Kemper which is awesome, but too much weight and size to carry around, have to find something smaller for gigging (direct)
Joshua Benton I think it’s a cost association, because those IR downloads aren’t cheap and on the stop they take up some considerable dsp. I just think line 6 is giving you good options that you can make amazing if you so choose
In this particular instance I definitely preferred the sound of the stomp. That being said, you could have made either one sound better or worse, so you have to take the whole thing with the right perspective. I think you were spot on in that you can get a very usable and musical sounds (and experience) using a digital model - and it's so much more convenient.
I think that if an IR was loaded rather than the stock cab sim, it would have sounded even better.
Agreed - a little room sound could give it some more size and tame the presence a bit.
Was just about to type the same thing. Quality IRs make a huge difference.
I think a TRUE shootout would be an IR of THAT CAB, WITH THOSE MICROPHONES loaded in to the HX stomp.
That's exactly what thought... I have a Helix LT and since I started using IR's, it totally changed the game! Let's make a campaign here in the comments so they make the same video using it!
Can the HX load some new IRs, or would you need an external device like an OX?
Ain't nothin' like the real thing, baby.
Yea I think the real one sounded better
The difference is pretty distinct and the Helix is inferior.
It's Real Coke>Diet Coke.
I have a HX Stomp and for what I got it for, it's excellent. I don't have anything else I can just tuck in a guitar case and have great tone out of. Does it nail the feel of my real amps? It gets very close, I doubt I could tell a difference in a mix and side by side I'd probably just assume the HX Stomp was an amp with slightly different settings.
The key word in your statement at the end: "That Marshall is ONE amazing amplifier". It's just one amp. The modeler is a bunch of amps that with time and a good ear can be dialed in to sound like 96 percent as good as the target amp. This is now true of most modern modelers. Live through a PA or recorded, mixed and listened to on an iPhone/buds, NO one will know the difference. I love tubes, but it's the age of the modeler. Has been for awhile now. Great video.
I would have loved to hear the HX Stomp through a power amp and a guitar cab. On every modeling unit I tried it made a worlds difference to have a real cab in a room compared to the simulated stuff.
Kudos to you, Rick and the boys for putting out great content. I think this is the best comparison I've seen of these two worlds, old tube amp vs. digital modeling. Not only that, but there's no bs. The assessment and final analysis are honest. There's a real integrity in the philosophy of use that is applied by everyone which I am truly thankful for.
And I just happen to own a 1970 Superlead that is being serviced after sitting for 10 years. Around 1998, I had a chance to plug an original 1965 Stratocaster into that amp and it is a tone I will never forget. I miss it. Videos like yours remind me how wonderful it is to play through these amps and keep them alive. Thank you for being an inspiration, Rhett.
Actually, I think you might find as much difference between two amp that came out of the Marshall factory during the same week.
Dries van Oosten Exactly, 60-70’s Marshall’s are very inconsistent in terms of build and sound quality.
Corey Winiata They’re consistently delicious however. You ever heard a bad sounding Marshall?
@@robacdc1977 Well I tried a dsl15 once, sounded like hot garbage IMHO.
Pedro Martinazzo I’ve plugged into a DSL15, tweaked a few knobs and immediately got good Marshall tone. It’s all about the mids and the presence knob. Marshall’s are never meant to do scooped mids, ultra gain style crap
@@robacdc1977 Trust me I like my mids set pretty damn high is just that the amp lacks articulation when you crank up the gain and the clean channel sounds lifeless. I played a mini rectoverb afterwards and it seemed like it had everything the dsl lacked. I managed to get better marshall tones with the vintage mode than with the DSL
Their close, IR would have helped, but think this video was for someone buying it off the shelf and plugging it in.
I found them close. Nothing will ever be as close as the real thing, but for how close they are, I'd rather take the stomp on a gig knowing I can backup save my presets incase it gets damaged then to take that one of a kind amp out.
I think the line 6 products are 100% worth it. Love how indepth these videos get, really interesting and entertaining to watch. Great job guys.
I feel like the HX stomp is what you want live*, and the amp is what you want in the studio.
*At least until you can pay someone to humph the amp and cab in and out of venues, anyway.
Wow..men got weak!
There is a photo of women in a factory slinging Vox tube amps like they were boxes of pencils!
@@Caged63Man i'm sure all the guys in their 50s+ with chronic debilitating back pain are real proud of how manly they were now
@@Jordan-fg9cc speak for yourself...
@@Caged63Man no can do, I'm 27 and have reduced my rig to a pedalboard with a hx stomp on it. No ruined back for me thanks.
Who are you to decide what manliness is?
@@Jordan-fg9cc sorry to hear that! Cheers
I love both digital and tube worlds. I've got a Helix Floor and a Hx Stomp, and also a couple of tube Victory amps. To me, everything has its place. In my opinion, the main difference is that I have to tweak Helix a lot to get a great sound out of it, while it takes me ten seconds to dial a tube amp exactly as I want.
Thanks for the great video! I think the Marshall did sound better, but how many of us will ever be able to own a vintage amp like that? The biggest difference I heard was the lack of speaker breakup with the Stomp - does the pedal have any way to emulate that? My Avid Eleven Rack does have adjustments to simulate that breakup as well as a few different mic emulations. In the end as you said it is all about getting a sound you like when you need it. It would be interesting to hear the stomp run through a Power Cab or similar into the same Marshall cabinet would match closer. You could even use the exact mic setup.
I love that you and Rick are buds. It makes sense; two of the most knowledgable and likable gearhead/musos on the internet in collaboration. Very cool!
In my brain it seems the 57 should be to the outer cuz it’s a brighter mic and the 122 to the center being it’s a darker mic, just thinking out loud.
I was thinking the same thing. I guess they were trying to accentuate the character of each mic.
That's what I thought as well :)
Agreed.
Me too.
@@MarcCoteMusic The idea when doing this technique is to grab a very bright signal, and a very dark signal to combine. If you swap the mics around there will be less difference in the sounds and you get less to play with.
I'm no Rhett shull but I've played for 20 years. Many gigs, many tube amps. I own a Helix LT. The dudes saying that digital isnt as good..I have to agree. I think the newer, high end modelers blow the past stuff out of the water. I think they're 90% there. I still have a few favorite amps, but having tons of endlessly tweakable almost there options is ideal for me. The only thing that digital lacks is that in the room, air moving feeling. That can be corrected with a power amp and a cab and then it's more like 95%. Rhett got it totally right in one of his replies when he said that people who are automatically against digital are judging with their eyes, not their ears and they dont know good tone. Great channel man
Awesome video Rhett I can hear a difference but they both sound good to me. Personally I would like to own a vintage Marshall rig but it's not in the budget right now. Even if it was transporting one around to gigs would get old fast. Thanks for sharing.
Hello Rhett! I think I have never commented one of your videos as I usually stay more on the reader side..and let’s face it..with more than 1000 comments you will probably never read this!
However, that early 70s Marshall has a phenomenal tone!! With all due respect to all real world guitarists who definitely need a more compact and usable gear there is noting like the real thing! Some swear there is! Well as far as the dynamics go I really don’t think so! It’s not only a purist thing, it is actually true, it’s basically physics!
Thank you so much for your gear reviews! I find amazing your given dedication to us (amateur players) sharing a very realistic glimpse of how is it in the real life of a pro guitarist..on stage on studio, amp tone challenge, gear that fit the real needs..It helps a lot putting away some myths and be more clear in what to buy
and what can or cannot be that worthed when it comes to gear! A very genuine thank you
Being that I am already committed to making whatever compromises I must to avoid carrying heavy/fragile tube amps, and attenuators to make them ear friendly in non arena venues, I'm not going to knock the Stomp on miniscule variances.
Great vid!! I listened to portions of it several times at different sittings. First, what all of you said about the Helix and the Marshall were spot on. And it came down to the question of how did it make me feel. I was quite impressed with the sound of the Helix. It was tight and it was pleasant in most places. The Marshall was a thing of beauty. But given I will never play through a Marshall, I think of the Marshall tone in the Helix not as a Marshall soundalike...but as a unique guitar tone that meets 99% of my needs when thinking about humbuckers and that 'sound'. The Helix is affordable and with the Pod Go coming out at $449 how could you NOT own one of these emulators? I have been waiting for this for 40 years!! Thanks again for this. Just is another point in favor of the Helix. And a joy to have heard that 'plexi'. You guys rock!!
Helix all the way. The Marshall is a nice collector piece and unless you must have a amp in your rig so be it. For us who do not employee roadies I would lean towards the Helix for day to day both studio and live. I went through lots of amps before settling with a Helix Floor. Now with the new 3.06 update it is even more phenomenal. No one will hear the difference in a mix either live or recorded especially with some tweaking. The Helix is totally musical.
Nice video. By the time you dialled it in, the HX sounded great. Not identical, but great - and, as you say, REALLY usable. I reckon a bunch of Stomps will be selling on the basis of this test!
I bet in the room you can tell. Recorded is a whole different animal. A fender champ with an 8" speaker sounds huge recorded
FACTS
I agree with you
I have to agree, if only because I just started recording with my old Fender Champ. It just sounds so good. I'm sure you can get good profiles, but I have the Michael Britt champ profiles and they don't sound as good to my ears. In a mix they will probably sound fine, but the sensitivity you can bring to your playing seems different to me.
But this is not about what it sounds like "in the room". It's about the recorded sound. Different goals, so the room tone is not relevant here.
my tranistor ibanez with an 8 speaker sounded very trash in mixes. My engl sounded wonderful. always. My 1 watt amp with a 4 12 too. great thing. and so does the iridium, sounds amazing. even my bigsky cab sim sounds quite good in mixes.
What a genius mic clip. Great video too, i'm waiting on my HX Stomp and will likely circle back and buy your preset patches for it. Great tone.
The first most important comments were that the Stomp was "close enough" to the real amp & that the Stomp was usable. Once these comments were accepted as fact, the second most important comments were, "what were the cost & the weight" of the Stomp versus the real amp. When these first & second comments are accepted & then combined together, the Stomp is the more practical choice for costs & back surgeries costs saved. Richard :)
Ray Raymond but I hate digital sound, has no soul...it gets by but it certainly is not alove
Alive
@@kirtb9784 You are certainly welcomed to you opinion here (digital-sound, has no soul), & I can understand it. However, --- [1] With 55 years of playing guitar & arranging cover band music (I'm semi-old; Ted Nugent & I were both born in 1948), I can barely hear the dig-sound's 'no soul'. --- [2] Indeed, it is good & expected that in a recording studio mix board room, a trained ear can discern some slight difference between a well developed dig-sound & a well developed tube/real-sound. --- [3] However, in a FOH mix, whatever difference between dig-sound & tube/real-sound may or does exist, the dig-sound is simply close enough to the tube/real-sound to not make any real difference. --- [4] Also in a FOH mix, there is only one regular-audience-person in a 100 or in a 1000 who can tell the difference between the dig-sound & the tube/real-sound. The remaining 99/100 or 999/1000 regular audience people can't hear any difference. They have had enough vodka & cranberry juice cocktails to only enable them to 'paaaaaarty'. --- [5] Finally, that one regular-audience-person in a 100 or in a 1000, almost for sure, will get over the minuscule difference. --- [6] Oh, I forgot. With the dig-sound, I save a whole bunch of money by not having back surgeries by not carrying around the tube/real-sound. Also, I don't have the pain of the surgery recovery. Richard :) :) :)
Ray Raymond I just finished a rehearsal where a buddy used his digital thing, he’s a good guitarist and is working into this new world ... but his tone in his tube amps has always been very impressive to me, but right now it’s lacking wi5h his new toy. I know he’s learning, but I miss his amp. My amp which I’ve done some basic changes to in the last 18 months sounds really good the longer I play it with the mods. It’s changing, settling into a sound that I think no one else will ever copy or get the same way. Therefore it’s living,
@@kirtb9784 I understand what you set forth. However, I have played with heavy analog/real amps. Compared to the heavy analog/real amps, I simply like the Line 6 Helix' processor's (& similar Kemper & Axe processors, which I don't have, but assume are good) the lower costs, flexibility of sound processor arrangement, ease of carry & setup, time savings (maybe), & for FOH, a plenty 'good- enough, but possibly/probably not perfect sound. But I have to bet you that my back feels sooo much better than yours. Indeed, after you next two back surgeries, I suspect that you will come to the modern age with the modern & higher end guitar processor. Stay low & watch your six. Richard :)
First of all, I'd would like to thank you and all your team for doing such a professional comparison. Very interesting and helpful to go deep on the arguments that really matters. And the best for me in this video is that arguments you are discussing are developed by real musicians, real sound technicians, so guys you really make the difference! It really helped me to understand what I need "where" I need it.
I think you should have tried also the HX out to the same cabinet, to get the amp simulation only tone on the SAME cabinet. still impressive, even though I know that amp and cab simulation is very usable for the last 5 or so years.
HX does not have a power cab output, so that would be impossible, an external amp would be needed but that would change the tone so not a fair comparison.
@@joresvanwensen922 Any clean amp would do the trick. I like using an old Yamaha home theater receiver and large hifi speakers plus a 12 inch powered subwoofer in my bedroom setup. I bought a Powercab 112 for offsite use.
It is an honor to record a Marshall true a Neve. I have done it on 3 albums. I can understand if you can not pay for that and you choose the HX. But I take the Marshall to the studio and I still play it on my gigs. I also play two!!! LOL
Would love to see the Strymon Iridium in that comparison too!
Appreciate the comment @ 12:25 - been fighting oblique bend noise forever (Full size Helix LT). Now I know what the Hi cut is for.
That tone when you first started playing was amazing.
When I gig I dont use in ears so standing next to a good tube amp and cab is far more inspiring than listening back to a digital recreation of an amp cab and mic. So for me a tube amp wins every time.
It's really hard to say which is "better"
Obviously the marshall just has that special something, but for 99% of people, they'd get much more use out of a helix.
What kind of "just special"?
@@MAIDEN2 That is what I was thinking. The listener really does not care and no one can call out what is digital or not when listening to a well done record. None of the tones used in this video are usable in my musical style.
Boy, oh boy...that Marshall! Respect to L6. That is extremely usable. If you walked out of the room for 15, and listened to recordings, it’d be harder to tell. In a mix, the differences might be buried for good. Thanks!
Pack up my gear, carry it to the car, load in at the gig, hook it all up, play the gig, unhook it all, load out, get home and unpack. The audience sitting in the bar all talking and drinking, the concrete floor, the room acoustics, the PA, the sound guy, and the rest of the band playing....is anyone going to notice the difference?
Yes! You will! When you're back isn't hurting. When you're not worried about damaging an expensive amp or it getting stolen. Toss the HX in your gig bag and go rock.
I play bass and a couple of years ago I decided to get a new class D bass head and a 2x10 bass cabinet. My rig is 34 pounds lighter and it sounds loud enough to hear myself on stage.
For consistency of tone I decided to use a dedicated preamp pedal with XLR output to send the signal to FOH.
And if there's a bass amp on the venue, I simply don't load my bass amp. Just my bass and my pedalboard.
I'm on my late 40's and I have back issues. And honestly, in all my life only two people approached me to tell me "wow! Your bass tone was awesome"...and the two of them were sound guys
My lord that Marshall sounds AMAZING!
Why hasn't anyone contacted Line 6 and asked them to play around with the amps they used for reference? That would be really cool.
You would think that they did. Which brings up differences between individual amps, mic & cab variations. Just like digital movie cameras, we're going to wake up one day soon and digital amps will have it nailed.
@@-Thunder Exactly. I mean, what's the point if you can't even get two vintage amps to sound the same.
@KC lol exactly it's sad how far off people are from knowing what sounds good
@KC ok boomer
@KC you realise the hx stomp is $650 brand new?
This is the hardest thing to get my head around as an audiophile guitarist on a budget. After buying my Helix Floor unit, it just feels like I don't have to spend the rest of my life or try as hard to match my favorite tones. The Helix will get close and sound awesome regardless.
There’s nothing like the real thing but flying around the country with the Stomp or LT is great!
This was by far the best comparison I've seen in YT. Great job on using the Neves with the HX and not plugging the stompbox straight into your interface like so man
Guy with the cap has really good ears...
I've noticed that in the couple of vids he's been in.
Oh boy, once that guy mentioned the digital fizz in the 12k range when you bend up from a 4th I can't unhear it. It's a little artifacting or something. Around 10:07 you get the best example of it. I had to CRANK my PC reference head-phones to hear it, but it jumped out at me once I knew what to listen for. Impressive little box that HX stomp is, but that Marshall sounds like literal thunder in your fingers. Amazing.
The amp has the chime that the stomp doesn’t. When you back the volume down you hear it. I agree...my 18 watt does it and I just love. But the stomp does sound good.
My band uses 2 HX stomps for our guitarists and with certainty the bass will soon be played on such a device. We play directly - no towing, no microphones that someone accidentally kicks in, light equipment and we are ready within 5 minutes. The listeners cannot tell the difference and the sound engineer loves us ;)
We play glam rock - yes, we lack the exaggerated towers of boxes and amplifiers on stage - but imagine the space ... FRFR monitors, no feedback or other disturbing noise.
Even if a real amp should be the ultimate thing, my back, my wallet and my nerves can live very well with the HX Stomp ;)
... and yes with the HX Stomp you can rock damn cool!
The HX stomp did a good job. The Marshall sounded better.
good job, but no even close...
That's what I've been saying..ol school playing that Marshall amp loud and proud, that you can feel in the air and your pants legs..otherwise, just use a line6 and continue fooling yourself and amateurs!
The HX stomp is immediately identifiable even without looking. It has the transistor distortion who's harmonics are less than pleasant....
@@Caged63Man When you sitting in the studio where your cab is in the other room and all you hear is sound coming from studio monitors - you have the same experience that you hear from modeler.
@@ConstantineM certainly not.the interaction is way different.
You, Rick and the boys are definitely my favourite people to watch, keep up the great videos
I’m a bedroom guy, I spent so much money on amps and pedals trying to get my tone and just couldn’t get it right. Then I decided to try a Stomp, game changer! I love my tone, I love my Stomp! Best piece of gear I ever bought!
I get mine tomorrow. Very excited!
Thanks so much for the excellent comparison and the effort your team went to to achieve the goal. If your playing live in clubs and small venues like most of us I will use my Helix every time, it’s close enough. The helix team have a Flagship product that comes as close to the real feel of a tube amp, and if you can get the power cab it really does give that amp in the room feel to get even closer. I am enjoying the easy load in and out these days. I have sold my Red Knob Fender Twin and my Vox AC30. The other advantage the helix gives you can have a patch with snapshots for each song for intro verse chorus leads all levels set and consistency through the night and each gig. I just wish the Helix had more usable patches onboard to give you a better start. Thanks again for a great video.
I’m a tube guy thru and thru but the HX Stomp is a serious piece of gear in the working musicians (and even hobbyist’s) arsenal!
This is the first time I’ve ever considered buying a Line 6 product. It showed very well.
One thing is certain: you sound better on a digital unit than I do on a tube amp
Design philosophy: Form follows function, Leo Fender. I have many amps including Mesa Boogie Triple Crown 100 watt head with 2x12 Vertical Rectifier cab and the hand-wired '64 Custom Deluxe Reverb and the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb with updates, and now the TMP. I love the experience of a 100 watt amp pushing enough air to make my pants flutter. However, I have been staying up til 4am for the past few nights with studio headphones and prefer to get my sound from the TMP to still have a great experience. I am going to get a Fender FRFR cab for daytime. An Axe buddy of mine had a Line 6 FRFR cab but the speaker blew and he is in the market for a better cab. He has extensive experience with Line 6 and that is why he went Axe. He also influenced me to get an Eventide H90 which I will use in the effects loop. Leo Fender said, "Form follows function". The Stratocaster was designed this way, and so was the TMP. They sound great but they are beautiful too. Some people don't mind looking at an ugly piece of gear. If form follows function then the piece of gear has to be beautiful in design. Fender did a lot of R&D on the TMP. Functionality is beautiful. Hendrix showed us how to make a Strat function on another level. The TMP is on another level. It made me a better guitar player. That is something. I'm gonna start playing more in the daytime so I can use the FRFR cab. But being able to stay up til 4am playing has facilitated my finally learning the solo to Up Around The Bend. It's not Cliffs Of Dover, or Because We've Ended As Lovers, but those are next, and that's why I love the TMP, night and day.
It definitely has some Line 6 artifacts, but as a gigging unit, the Helix comes close enough to get the "vibe" of the Marshall in a live situation.
The real deal is ORGANIC! The HX box is usable but lacks DIMENSIONALITY! The feel of the guitar maybe different, but my fingers are not there. Thanks for the shoot out guys!
Loved the video. I really wanted the HX Stomp to sound better but I did prefer the Marshall. Both sounded amazing but my ears did prefer the Marshall. Thanks again for making the video.
In my HX Stomp I feel a big diference using the stock speaker sim VS celestion IR's. I think you used stock 4x12 and you must to try with IR's, It sound way better !!
Line 6 came closer that I thought. Even though I’m an AX8 player....I will be honest. Seems like the amp obviously has a little more warmth and top end “tube” edge. Would like to hear same thing but with AX8, Kemper, Stomp (or regular helix).....with a JCM800 2203 with an LP.... Overall, for me, the AX8 (or any modeler)....the “feel” is usually the gate sensitivity (feedback live), the high gain while turning the volume on the guitar down....as in does it sound/feel like a real amp....and that obvious digital fizz that is hard to avoid with a modeler....no matter what your high/low pass settings are....good vid.
Around the 9:00 you actually made the HX sound better than the Marshall. It was too scooped.
Exactly !
11:44 Rick nailed it !! Ain't nothing like the real thang , baby !! The Marshall don't have a threshold , the strings are not gated in a way . You can hear the accents and certain harmonics . The pedal don't allow that . This is why I love analog stuff . Digital stuff is what it is , programmed . It's not awful but not better .
Lets all be honest these digital modelers get very close and sound great for the money and size, i have Fractal AX8 and i can get very very close to real amps but if i could have all the real amps i would but we all know that is impossible.
Great video Rhett, its not everyday we get to see and hear these vintage amps!
Here's the thing. If you got another HX Stomp and dialed it up the same, it will sound identical between the two Helix units. Now, if you got another exact model of Marshal amp/cab (or two of any other "identical tube amps) and did a comparison between them they will never sound identical and apart from EQ tweaking your pretty much not going to get them perfectly in sync... physics. There's so much going on in the live components of a tube amp that they are totally inconstant. In a home situation, turning on a kettle and toaster when the air-con kicks in will effect the voltage and therefore the sound of the tube amp. The modeler will be exactly the same so long as it has enough voltage to turn on. Totally agree with Rhett, It's not so much is it identical (No because the tube unit the HX was modeled off will sound different between the two Marshall's to start with) but is it amazing sounding in its own right, totally flexible, adaptable beyond belief, value for money with hundreds of amps and effects, light weight, compact, affordable and dependable... you betcha. We live in wondrous times. Rock on Y'all, and thanks Rhett, I love your channel and energy man, Respect.
No Brainer for me, def the Marshall, incredible.
Helix is really great when travelling and you have an in-ear rig and or FOH engineer dialling in the mix.
Just wanna say that I find your channel inspiring, fun and educational. Thanks for sharing all this!
There was something about the tops that was just nicer in the Marshall, and less muddy but the stomp held its own , when you consider what it is. It was definitely close enough!
The tube amp had more overtones than the modeller. Also heard some overdriven speaker tone, which adds some sizzle. But both devices sounded very good.
Just bought the HX stomp XL. So happy I did 😊