I laughed so hard at that. SMTV was always a little anime cringe but vengeance leaned into that aspect hard. Yoko is a dollar-store Light Yagami and while I do enjoy that, I miss the writing of older games.
Man, Atlus was so nice to give us the Beta of SMTV a whole 2 years prior the game so we could enjoy a little bit before the FULL project. Truly happy they gave us this chance...
@@MogekoMagica Yeah, imagine charging us full price of a "game" (because I can't think of anything else to define SMTV than a Beta), and then charging us later the full game. Really hope this is not the new rule going forward, because if so, I will really consider not giving Atlus new chances...
@@ReallyReallyTryingI’m pretty sure SMT V might be the last game where they do this. I heard from somewhere that they’re moving on from that strategy to releasing full games at launch.
One of my favorite aspects of Yoko is her friendship with you is genuine. Even when she gets her memories back, she still sides with you against the Quadistu. She's also happy you survived the sacrifice.
I want to disagree on Yoko having no nuanced moments, because there was one. When it came to fulfilling the Qadistu's plan, she initially sided AGAINST them, and seemed to really care for Tao even though they always disagreed, it was only after you failed and Lilith's talk with her that Yoko goes back onto her dark path.
^ not just that but multiple times when you agree with Tao in wanting a perfect world free of suffering Yoko will initially agree and say it sounds great, but ultimately just isn't possible in a system that's flawed from the roots. I feel like Yoko wants to believe the lie that we can achieve peace in a flawed system because for once she has friends she actually cares about, but she stays the course and keeps herself focused on her goal. I can agree that since a lot of this is during side conversations and one off lines that if you blink you'll miss. It might have been a better idea to have her say these things during major cutscenes so it stuck with people more.
I feel like Yoko's purpose in having the psuedo-intellectual edgy statements is to further sow the idea of Chaos in both our head - and more importantly - in Tao's. Remember, her heel turn prior to the Qadistu Showdown battle reveals that she isn't possessed, mind controlled, or anything like that into being a double agent for the Caddy Stew. She was doing it completely willingly, having said that, her friendship with you and Tao was genuine; she also says that herself in the minor conversations in the demon haunts. She really cares for the both of you - and wants you to see what Chaos has to offer. So these out of line, edgy af statements may be...yikes writing; but they aren't without reason. She's slowly seeding the idea of a completely fresh start in both your mind, and Tao's. And to a degree, it does work with Tao up until she's yeeted into Panagia form by the Qadistu in the "You Won? Sike!" cutscene following the showdown. Yoko changes Tao with the edgy over-the-top statements; and Tao imprints the idea that, yeah the world may be flawed, but there are things in it worth keeping, on Yoko. It's a dichotomy that maybe I'm looking too deep into, I still find it makes Yoko a good character. Even if, and I cannot stress this enough - her writing can be a bit yikes here and there.
I think that it lacked better writting to deliver that, Yoko just sounds like your average Twitter user which is realistical considering her age and all but it doesn't do a good impression in most people, and the ending itself also lacked especially for Chaos, the whole final arc fell off. I think that the story could've been better if it focused more on Dazai and Yuzuru instead like CoC was supposed to be or if they made the alligment split happen earlier and gave a better closure to the girls' in the end.
Plus for her to show her original face outside of the black futuristic alien iron man thing and simply talk it out. I fell for this character. Just me and her in that world.
to be fair for Lucifer sticking around as the final boss in Vengeance, you need to defeat him to access the Throne/Mandala system given he owns it since he took out God, even if he rejects it. Basically it wont answer to the Nahobino/Goddess of Creation until the current owner is dealt with. thats how i see it, plus i like Lucifer
And, like Kagatsuchi in Nocturne, if you reject creation outright (but not in the way he'd want), he doesn't even fight you in the normal neutral ending.
I always saw it as Lucifer taking a different approach to passing down his philosophy for a free world. Manipulating someone into following his beliefs (like he did with Naoki) was effective enough to dethrone The Creator, but in the process it created a demon who desires only freedom for himself rather than freedom for mankind. Lucifer needed someone both strong and willing to unshackle all of humanity from the Mandala System, which is why he challenges the Nahobino who had already proven themselves to have the necessary strength to create a new world
The level scaling is actually a huge improvement because before, fights really were just a test of how much you grinded rather than your strategy or team setup until the demifiend fight. Whereas now i was able to take out Shiva at level 80 with demons at level 76 and 60 just by having a good strategy and press turn management. I fought so many bosses earlier on than i did in the OG game and thise optional stronger bosses were sometimes harder than the OG at that point simply because i was able to tackle them with less powerful demons and they were more rewarding because i did it on my own time after diguring out the strategy. OG didnt let me do that. Like you said you managed to do jt 5 levels under in OG, and i dont think you realize how small of a distance that is in this game. 5 levels is nothing, it should not feel like a huge crazy challenge just 5 levels apart.
I will say that you didn't really fail to see the way Yoko slightly did change through the game. She did become slightly less radical in her views using the painting analogy as an example. She said that before she would just scrap the whole painting if it had a mistake but now she was willing to instead of scraping it all to try and fix the parts she didn't like to preserve what she did like (i.e. Tao and you). It is kind of a shame that some of that development did get cast away after the Quadistu sacrifice Aogami, and presumably kills Tao and you. However, i still thing that was a realistic reaction. Imagine if the two people who helped you change your views and gave you a slight bit of hope for the world were killed by that same world you once saw hope in. And it is not like when she learned about you and Tao were alive in the emperyean that she disregards all of tour prior experiences as she is happy to see them alive. At that point, it is just too late for any changes in view and both Yoko and Tao are set and decided on their goals. It is the same way Tao slightly changed through Yoko's view too. It made her realise that a world of peace were everyone is happy is alot more complicated to be obtained because in reality not everyone will be happy in order to make some people happy you are eventually going to anger some people. So, yeah I personally disagree on the point you said about Yoko.
Yoko actually changes her plans when you reach the throne, when she recognizes the MC she immediately wants to create a new world with him and only goes back to using Tiamat if we choose Tao
3:25 aside from the brief Womb of Grief intro section, SJ Redux lets you experience the original story and the original endings. I know you hate it but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just forgot.
Nam complaining that Yoko does nothing but speak her alignment is funny when that's 90% of SMT characters lmao. Characters never been the strong suit of the IP. What makes the point even funnier is it's disengenuous to say it's all Yoko is, she has a genuine friendship with Tao kind of like in SMT IV and potraying her alignment as just grr status quo is very surface level.
Yeah, that. Even if IV has the good storytelling and characters, once they transformed into their respective rep demonic avatars, they are just as bad as Yoko and Tao. The alignment endings of IV actually no better than V original ending tbh.
Yeah, I dont like Yoko but she is arguably just as well written as the alignment reps in SMT 4. I think, maybe because of nostalgia or just the likeability of Walter and Jonathan, people forget how they were basically just walking alignment reps too. Arguably SJ is the only one thats done a good job of showing the characters slowly develop into their alignment.
@@louish5068 One thing that especially helps with Yoko is that there isn’t a heel-turn with her. She is always talking about how she hates the status quo, so her taking that to a universal level is a mostly natural evolution
When it comes to your last point SMTVV should have came out as an expansion instead of a whole new game, similar to how Capcom deals with Monster Hunter. Then in the future Atlus can release their games then months to a year later let out a huge paid DLC expansion to it that make it far better, but in reality we know they wont do that because it would make them less money than a whole entire re-release.
I understand what you’re saying, but then we wouldn’t have the PS5 release. Even with SMT5 being as lackluster as it was, it was too good to be switch exclusive. Don’t get me wrong, I still bought it, but man was it rough.
This is probably one of the biggest examples of "thanks for beta testing guys" I've ever seen 😂 I'm never going to buy an Atlus game on launch ever again!
People will claim that endings like true neutral or smt4 law are too extreme because they genocide a group of people while at the same time wholeheartedly simping for yoko to kill off literally everything😂
There are too many SMT fans who talk about Persona being just waifu wars and then do stuff like this. Like SMT is my favorite series ever but it's tiring to see the hypocrisy
I don't think you really grasp Yoko when it came to the Sahori bullying scene. Sahori at that point had already come to an ultimatum and she wasn't ever going to be talked down, it was far to late for that outcome. When Yoko told her that her only option is violence against the girls harassing her it's because Tao literally could not do anything else for someone that far gone. Tao even ends up doing siding with Sahori's attempt at violence which makes Sahori see that she did have people who cared about her and that her call to violence was to extreme. Yoko was basically in the right.
@@DarkuuArmatii thought it was the same situation as tao tho? Lived a human life but is really a goddess. The quadist mentioned how her teacher tried to kill her out of jealousy and thats the reason why her human side wanted revenge anyway
@@duddud___8700Yoko was fully aware she was a goddess I think. Because she was aware her powers were stolen form her when the creator betrayed her and was willing to work with the quadistu to get them back.
Literally the worst thing about Dazai is he goes from having the personality of a designated RPG healer who’s barely containing themself from delivering a speech about friends being their source of power, immediately to strangling orphans, all during the space of a single cutscene. A cutscene in which an angel of Bethel tells them about their holy mission or whatever. Like you’d think Jeffrey Dahmer was the one who gave the pep talk lmao
Dazai should've got with Mastema's influence earlier and we slowly saw his behavior changing untill the point where he enters the Aizen mode and kills Yuzuru
Absolutely like if they bought the people being turned to salt into the story at the same time as the Quadistu then he could have been free by Mastema, which could have inspired him to help Bethel to begin with and then slowly be corrupted
Yeah, Dazai is the only character I feel got handled poorly still. His sudden turn from finding power in friendship, to then trying to out edgelord Yoko was just bizarre XD
@@johnhogan8224Yeah, they could've introduced this earlier and then Abdiel would make some sort of deal with Mastema and he would be within the Bethel HQ with others, so he starts corrupting Dazai and would manipulate Abdiel for his own purposes It's totally in character for him to something like that and it would have done his presence in the story way better than what they did.
I really agree with your final point in this video. I am so hyped for Metaphor, but am also worried that it's going to be compromised by an enhanced version in a few years that nullifies the hundreds of hours I've put into my save in the original game.
It's pretty safe to say they're going to do it. They did with P5, they did with Etrian Odyssey, they did with SMT V, & SMT IV was the only exception really as Apocalypse was a sequel. Oh & Radiant Historia Perfect Chronology too, so we have 4/5 cases of them just doing a better version after the initial release. You pay full price for the worst version of a game right now, & 80% odds are pretty bad to buy at launch now lol
Honestly im happy to have played both the original smt 5 and vengence now i feel like the context of the original game made me apreciate the differences and improvements in vengence way more
P5R's in a weird place because the story / character additions are all great but the gameplay additions make the combat a braindead bore on every difficulty level. I can't say that P5R truly replaces vanilla P5, because I would probably have more fun replaying Vanilla P5 than Royal. ...Whereas with SMTV I literally can't think of a single reason to ever revisit Vanilla.
I played vengeance first and didn’t have a problem understanding the story, it was also pretty clear to me that it’s not an entirely new story and moreso a more focused retelling with more emphasis on certain parts of the story, so it certainly didn’t feel “shackled” by the original since it’s essentially the same story. Also, if the original feels more aimless, I’m not sure I’d recommend anyone play 80 hours of the original first and move onto 80 hours of essentially the same story with new characters when you could just play the new version if you plan on doing just one playthrough.
I didn't dislike Yoko, but some of her takes were really wild and I genuinely have no idea what they were thinking when they wrote her in some instances. The quest with the Voivre and the human who cared about her was yoko at her worst imo, she had the audacity to justify a pointless death of a minor in the name of "at least he died satisfied". That scene and "Cars r bad because people die in car accidents" just made her look like total dumbass.
Gotta disagree on the Voivre quest bit. I think that's just Yoko embodying her ideology well. Chaos as a whole is very 'live fast, die young'. From a certain point of view, you could argue that student found more fulfilment in dying a fulfilling death than continuing to be a cog in the Tokyo Metropolitan machine. Whether you personally agree or disagree with that is up to you, but it's at least logically consistent with Yoko's other views.
@halowaffle25 That wasn't the agrument she made though. She said it's better for him to "die fufilled" than to live with the trauma of watching voivre die knowing her past which is just absurd. This line of thinking implies that trauma victims are better off dead when we know fully well in the modern era of mental health recovery is possible. She also has the nerve to argue "we were just following his orders so we should have let him die" which is also an awful implication in of itself. There are plenty of times I agree with yoko, but at her worst she just sounds really ignorant. The the voivre side quest was the only time she genuinely upset me. I get the whole chaos alignment idea but it doesn't come off as "live fast die young" to me, more "live isn't worth living if you're traumatized" and "if its his wish to die, no matter how ignorant it may seem, just let him die! We're just granting his wishes c:"
I don't think "living with trauma" or whatever was the point of that quest. The choices presented to you are more about the subject of personal freedom/agency and how you, as a bystander who doesn't really get affected by the outcome either way, treat the actions and desires of other people. Picking the "Chaos" option means that you are willing to respect the wish of an individual (even if you personally disagree with it or even consider it dumb) and see it through until the end no matter what, regardless of the consequences, just because *that is what that person wants for themselves* - the absolute "freedom to choose" and all that. Picking the "Law" option, on the contrary, implies that there are some things that are above personal freedom of choice, and that it is "objectively correct" to interfere with that freedom when the outcome it leads to crosses certain boundaries. You seem to strongly believe in the latter, and that's perfectly fine, but it doesn't mean that the other choice is somehow inherently "wrong" or something - it just seems that way to you because our personal beliefs inherently make us biased towards the things that go against them. Lastly, don't forget that this whole situation is (intentionally) incredibly limited in scope, so the idea of "but what if this affects other people" doesn't really go into the consideration here at all. The question here is about how you treat an individual's choice in a vacuum, when the outcome affects only that person and that person alone, not about selfishness vs greater good. PS: I'm getting a bit tired seeing so many people treat Yoko like a lunatic because of her car rant, when she is actually 100% correct (and so is Takaya in Persona 3 Reload, who uses the exact same argument at one point - I don't see people constatnly calling *him* an idiot, for some reason). Her wording there could use some refining, sure, yet the idea behind it is perfectly solid. By putting some - not even that severe - limitations on cars we could prevent a huge amount of car-related deaths all over the world (and I'm not even talking about the whole carbon footprint issue, or problems like constant noise in areas with high traffic), but that will most likely never happen, because those same limitations would also make our daily lives less convenient. So it goes back to the whole "people refuse to see things that don't directly affect them" point that she makes against the current system. I really don't see the issue.
@@MegaGameXtreme I would agree with you, but you should experience America and then see about changing you mind regarding mental health and trauma recovery. It's better to die with fulfillment when you're in a rigged system where you may not even get the human right that is humane healthcare, man. With that being said, I also would point out that it's also mindful to live a short life doing what you enjoy than living a dreadful hundred years stagnating and doing nothing.
The car one was hilarious. People die of a lot of other things and those other things aren't rare. One of those is, consequence of fastfood consumption. Should we ban that just because people are irresponsible? Same can be said with cars. We have traffic laws for a reason. Cars can't abide by them because they can't think. It's people that are responsible for everything. That's why I don't understand people who talk about gun violence. The gun is not dangerous without the one using it. If someone gets shot it's almost always human violence or error.
32:57 The final boss of the game in the Canon of Vengeance route, Lucifer, states that if you defeat him the Mandala system will crumble with him as well and that is his goal. Unless I misread what was said, in this game, the final world that you make with your friends is the final world that will be made in the endless cycle and I feel that makes your final choice in the game far more impactful
Honestly that is such a cheap cop out But its worse then that because the throne was built by the horned god after he slew tiamat so what stops any other law demon from doing the same shit in the chaos ending? At least the law ending doesnt mention demons being a thing but i still cant imagim the world going on forever anyway samael states that lilith and the others came from a separate universe so what is stopping a mc donalds employe from accidentaly summoning a freakin belberith nahobino from another world and he taking the throne away from you since it still exist in the law route? The lucifer fight shouldnt be about whe stopping mandela from ever going into office but isntead about we making him realize that the world being ciclical is actually a good thing since that means that no aligment can stay in power forever and they have a short period of time where they can try to rule the world so we can figure out the perfect system and both humans and demons will stop fighting because there is no point anymore
So one of the super bosses comments on this: by defeating Lucifer you'll free this world from the Mandala system but that's nothing in the grand multiverse of worlds connected by the Mandala system
I remember I fought Shiva as soon as I unlocked him, got my ass flipped, went to shadow realm, loaded up a devious one shot build and went back in with omnipotent succession + omagatoki charge + 5 press turns. that OTK was the most satisfying sh!t I've done. Oh and the demi-fiend one, though that took me 29 attemps because mf kept using gaea rage, I just needed a full buff, demi-fiend full debuffed, and a dodge the previous turn + popping up impaler's animus instead of omnipotent succession. He almost survived, almost.
(Spoilers P5 and SMTVV) In my opinion, the Shinjuku Government Building was the most insane narrative point I’ve seen in any ATLUS game I’ve played, this isn’t like P5 where everybody dies just to come back 20 minutes later for some forgettable reason and then fight a god- no, I lost a character I connected with in a way, permanently. Sure, Aogami came back but the pain from that section really put the Vengeance name into perspective like you said in the video. And the negatives you said about Shakan were things I didn’t even notice because I was so upset by them killing Aogami and Yuzuru that I just spedran Shakan as fast as possible.
Exactly. What reason did I have to think that Aogami was going to come back, when for pretty much the second half of the game, I had Tsukuyomi with me? Though I do agree with Nam that Shakan is pretty bland. Honestly, both dungeons were pretty bland when compared to older titles. But yeah, Aogami's death was still impactful, since you get to sit with it for basically the rest of your time in the game.
This was the final nail where i decided to go with the law path Yoko betrays you and is at least partially responsible for killing aogami and while that happens tao just uses her magic to make so at least you can live and find vengence against tiamat One thing people say about law routes is that usually there is no in game reason for the mc to go to them other then player choice the original was like that where at every point it was making the angels to just be assholes with you own existence being a crime to them But this time i see no reason to follow chaos everytime i think about siding with yoko i can only picture aogami and tsukoyomi being like "bro wtf"
For yoko i seen so many reactions to her either tour perspecive or people finding ehr hilarious woth her shadow the hedgehog personality but overall she seems well liked by the communtiy
The re-release like this one is the reason why I don't want to buy Metaphor. Atlus (or Sega) gets away a bit too much with shitty monetization schemes like rereleases, Abuse DLC, etc. Hearing that they did delist the first game is definitely not a good look for what they do. Of course, they make some great games, incredible game even. And quite frankly, I'm convinced that Metaphor will be an incredible success. It is just sad to see that, little by little, they try to push the limit of what monetization scheme they can find.
@@DragonKingX78 I will believe it when I see it. The company who made tons of money with re-release who said they don't plan to do it anymore would be a massive surprise for me. It's easy to say that now and then, 2 years later, here's a new re-release of another game. Especially when the dust is settled.
If you're willing to wait 3 years for a potential re-release, because you hate the idea of paying full price twice, then you could just as well not buy the re-release when it launches and wait for it to go on sale. Atlus always puts their games on sale within a year after release, like 50% off even, so to the point where the re-release would cost you the same as a new DLC expansion would for something like Elden Ring or even Cyberpunk 2077.
@@arcadis exactly remember when atlus sais p3r wasnt gonna get the female lead or answer just tp anouce it a month and half later for 35 bucks. You just never know these days but they have done this with every damn game its not even worth buying on release
Very good video with good points. However, I disagree with you on three things. 1. "Why is Lucifer here?" He's the one who took the throne from God, he is the reason why Da'at exist and why the conception failed (thus Japan still exists), and he's not just going to let a Nahobino take he's throne without showing their strong conviction. 2. "The new content takes too long to get to." Brother it only takes like a 20 something minutes to get to the train section. Unless you have an attention span you can't control. I think anyone who can should wait. 3. "Surprised that not a lot of people aren't complaining that the original SMT V is delisted." I'm not. Why complain when it still exist both physical and digital in Vengeance? Sure you have to pay 60 dollars for it, but since it comes with the Canon of Vengeance. I can kind of understand why. The only part I will agree with you on in some ways is preservation. As much as I despise the original it should still exist because of the hard work that was put in and should be acknowledged for what it was. I say sort of agree because of what I said a couple of sentences ago about it still existing in Vengeance.
yeah it feels disingenous to act like the first area is exactly the same in CoV when they added two whole new bosses to it, one of which you fight within the first hour at most. Sure, story wise it deviates the least compared to the other areas but it's all just establishing the setting anyway there was never much that actually happens there.
Wouldn't call the first area the exact same because not only do you have the new experience of having an npc party member, but also they ditched the abscess fog on the map, meaning we can actually see where we're going now. Massive improvement.
i'm really happy they went back to smt v and "fixed" it. I enjoyed the original but can't deny it lacked in many aspects and i'd say having to buy the game again was damn worth it. some things i still think could've been done differently but in the end it's an amazing game. I do wish we had more time in the tsukuyomi form, maybe even til the end of the game
we the og player from the nintendo switch feels like we are the beta tester lmao.. not complaining too much tho, the fact that the story is improved and now more people can play it in PC or console means more people can experienced the mainline titles..
Abdiel's form change is the biggest "have you seen the Canon of Creation route" moment in Vengeance. Like you could tell someone who's only played the Vengeance route that she fully died but her Magatsuhi was collected by someone like Dazai and they reconstructed her and ended up with a twisted, but more powerful form and they would probably believe you. Rather than it just being her resolve after being beaten the first time being so strong that she underwent a dark evolution. And on top of that she doesn't even talk much in said new form in the Vengeance route. This isn't necessarily something I had an issue with, mind you. I just sort of found it amusing how such a dramatic change in one of the characters is just sort of glossed over in the Vengeance route😝
Sometimes the games touch on demon summoniners actually removing the demons free will walter talked about this and devil survivor was only possible because of that and this game touched on this briefely when yuzuru basically said "shut up and obey me" to hayotaro Wished they delved into this fully with dazai we could have killed her in shakan and dazai alongside mastema revived her corpse stripped her from her free will and forced her to fall that would explain why she doesnt talk as well and would expend on the concept they introduced with hayotaro
My problem with level scaling on the OG is that the game was either too easy or too hard with it. Too hard in some very specific fights like Loup Garou or Shiva, and too easy on most of the other fights when you just did the side quests and ended up going above the average enemy level, so a fight that would be interesting ends up being forgetable. It just made me paranoic about keeping my level balanced and I ended up not able to enjoy the only redemable aspect about the OG game which was gameplay, which regardless of this feature I still feel like it was inferior to 4A. Level scaling also made fights go for way too long. Nuwa first fight when I was underleveled was easy overall with wind block demons, but it just took forever for her to "die", with me running out of MP for my main party and subs, which in turn made the fight go even longer. 5V I just never had to worry about any of that, fights were challenging just the right way regardless of level and ended up rewarding you way more for preparing well to the fight. Tho, some demon traits definitively broke the game, but I find it ok since you have to go quite out of your way to setup those comps. And yeah, I played both versions on hard.
At the end of the game you tear the universe out of the mandala system of death and rebirth so while it's still possible for a new nahobino to take the throne it's not guaranteed because that cycle is no longer a fundamental part of existence
Let's all hope they let the studio finish the next game before they release it, or at least make the inevitable fixes an update and dlc instead of a full price game.
I have a lot of empathy for Yoko, mainly because I was that troubled edgelord teenager who had every negative take on the world as a whole, but got to that point by being hurt and left helpless by a system that doesn't care about you. That said, when we learn about the reasons that drove her be so bitter, it was more tell than show, and it was beside the point because Aogami and Tao are taking the brunt of that omission in duplicity. It's a shame because I would 1000% believe if that bitterness was coming from Sahori, but alas, constraints of the narrative. That aside, for me SMT V went from a game where while I adored the gameplay, that directionless-ness and lack of character/story had me stop after the Loup-Garou boss asking "why do I care about what happens to these characters". To SMT VV where I became so attached to everyone so quickly that when half the cast got seemingly offed in one go I had to take a day or so to emotionally recover before continuing to play and finish my first run. It makes me very eager to try earlier SMT games ( ꈍᴗꈍ)
not a megaten game, but Radiant Historia Perfect Chronology is developed by Atlus and also lets you turn off the new content for the rerelease. …Which is kind of weird because basically all of the new content is optional side quests. More options are nice, I guess.
It’s to help people who have never played the original appreciate the original release. Then play it with the new content. I appreciate it. That said in SMTV’s case it is also done because SMTV CoC is fantastic the way it is. Vengeance helps fill out some stuff and vice versa. Both are SMTV and it’s beautiful.
Radiant Historia was developed by Tri-Ace (Star Ocean, Resonanse of Fate, Valkyrie Profile) with small help Studio Zero (Trauma Center, Stella Deus, Catherine).
What you say of the final area not making sense in CoV is very true. This is the first time i play smt5 and i herad that the story was terrible so i decided to try CoV forst and i had a blast. The story was good for the most part till i reached Taito, i felt like this race for the creation came out of nowhere and the ending part of the game felt very rushed. But now with the knowledge of CoC all of it makes a whole lot more sense now
I started on vengeance because this game is too long to be playing twice for a smidge of difference in ending story. Vengeance added sooooo much the vanilla one left our and needed it would be odd going back and playing. Overall videos like yours help to piece together the story and vengeance is the definitive one
Kinda agree with the take on the delisting from the storefront, but given Vengeance literally has the base game with all DLC in it, I think this might be the most ethical compromise in a way, to prevent people from buying the base game and then realize that the final version was actually available with no way to refund?
OH that's why the Nahobino turns purple!! I just beat vanilla smt5 earlier today. Didn't feel like playing it all again so I put on this video. Now I am learning that I may want to play Vengeance for myself one day because OH my gosh the story sounds fascinating. They made Dazai and Yuzuru friends ??? They gave Yuzuru a personality?? THEY KILLED HIM??!! Oh my gosh tea. And fusing with Koshimizu is GENIUS, what a great addition! Dang maybe I will pick up Vengeance.... not anytime soon though, the thought of playing the game that made Shiva way easier after literally spending almost 3 hours getting my butt handed to me yesterday sounds... irritating 😭😭 But this video was super thorough and did a great job expressing a comprehensive view of Vengeance, thank you! Exactly what I needed. Side note - Devil Survivor 2 actually has TWO stories in Record Breaker: the original, and a sequel which vastly changes the game. It's not like a sort of rewrite like Vengeance but a seamless continuation of the story. DeSu2 is my favorite video game of all time so I wanted to clarify that ha ha
I'm surprised how chill the community is about which Quadistu they find the hottest especially considering how heated they usually get over fictional women Are we in the good timeline guys?
@@chunkytomatosoup1826 nah I'm talking about the niche community It's usually WW3 every re-release, and we got like 5 new waifus so I'm doubly astonished there isn't a slur in sight
I may be the only person that liked more the original. I prefer no story to simply bad story. Vengeance just felt so random with the plot points, they just didn't know what to convey and they lacked focus on specific topics.
the guest characters, at least early on, are tailored for the chapter ahead of you. Yoko is invaluable in chapter 1, and tao pulls her weight a lot in chapter 2. It's chapter 3 where the fall-off is very noticeable, and chapter 4 doesn't even have guests, but Panagia Tao was buffed by letting her stats carry over between runs, so she is an objective upgrade over Idun now
As a 25 year old man, I really felt represented by Yoko. I despise this current world. Still, I do my best to make the life of everyone around me a better one, cause I hope humanity gets it's grips together. But just as Nietzsche said, everything is doomed to repeat itself.
@@NicoEntertainment just because a lot of things are bad in this world doesnt mean the whole world is dumb or doesnt make sense. There is also a lot of good in this world. And taking such a nihilist attitude to the world, that everything sucks, is just unproductive imo. At least you say you try to make the life of others around you better. But for you to truly make a difference I believe you need to see the best in the world. Trust me I am confused by this world at times, but I still see the best in it and people and believe that in the end everything will be good, even if it isnt in my lifetime.
The reason why Aogami/Kei's Nahobino isn't the most powerful being in the universe while you play with them - aside from story/gameplay segregation - is actually complicated. Aogami was initially developed in 3 types - battle, logicstics and ultimate. The Aogami Types are what was left of Susano-o's essence after being slain in the Armagedon, along with the other gods and goddesses (and yes, Tao isn't some reincarnation of Amaterasu - she's also implied to have been exterminated during the war along with the myriads of Japanese gods). Tsukuyomi was only able to retrieve this type while all of the rest fell on the battlefield (as seen when you collect their skills). The ultimate type is mentioned in passing by one of the researchers, but you don't get to acquire him, unlike Tsukuyomi's ultimate incarnation (as that was left intact). To add further info, Aogami's type you fuse with isn't fully operational until endgame - that is, until you absorb Lucifer's knowledge, which explains why you struggle all the way throughout the story. It's also worth noting that while you're being refered to as THE Nahobino by most bossess and some of the allies, Nahobino still remains a race among many others, and other human beings have the potential to turn into one and ascend the Throne at the Empyrean if they so choose. The narrative presents one of many possibilities, and it is heavily implied that because of the more than tentative plot's connection to Nocturne, all endings are in a sense canon, including your game overs (in which worlds someone else gets to become the Nahobino). This was hinted at in the 4 Horsemen DLC right back in 2021. I think that the reason for the ambiguity in the first game was mainly about centering the narrative around the Nahobino and his reason for existence. Since Aogami/Kei are no longer focused on wordly affairs all that much - as even the etymology of the term "Nahobino" refers to correcting an anomaly of grand scale - the narration lets in and out various characters without too much emotional investment for the reason of establishing the main goal - acquire Lucifer's knowledge and eliminate the vicious cycle of the Mandala System. Everything else comes in second place, because in the grand scheme of things, the world will be re-created, and those characters will either permanently cease to exist or be reborn. That's the reason why several sub-episodes (like Sahori's, Miyazu's, etc.) are tamed within a relatively short arc for each.
3:31 devil survivor 2 didn’t have extra parts added to the main story but rather a bunch of new demons skills and quality of life improvements. The big thing they added a continuation of the game itself that you can access whenever you want from the main menu you don’t even need to have beaten the original game story to access it. However I imagine it got on some peoples nerves as the story in the continuation follows up on a specific ending effectively making it the canon ending in terms of the original story (I won’t spoil it because like devil survivor 1, devil survivor 2 is absolutely worth playing)
Though, doesn't the desu2 sequel actually branch off an ending you can't get in the original? (I always thought of it as like, Daichi restorer + Saiduq) I think it's something like that at least 😂
@@starryslight7095 I would need to look it up but last I checked there weren’t any new endings outside of the new story endings which I will remind myself can be accessed whenever anyone wants and takes place after the original story
@@espeon37 no no, not new endings! I mean, i thought the sequel wasn't based off the best ending in the first game but one you can't actually access in the og (for reasons like Saiduq being around)
I’m very much looking forward to this game, I actually got to the end of the second area… but I’ve been obsessed with Elden Ring so I’ll come back when I’ve had my fill. I really liked SMTV, I know this’ll be even better.
I would love for them to do that if they let you have both human and demons in your party, use the press system for combat, choices matter/multiple endings, new dungeons/dungeon design overhauls, and some other improvements.
My overall thoughts on the smt 5 vengeance ( spoilers): I think the new story is probably the best story in the series since strange Journey, the qadistu are pretty good antagonists of the story, the character writing is a massive improvement over the original ( Yuzuru and tao being my favourites), yoko is a pretty good character ( I’ll talk about her later), mastema being intimidating as always, The plot is well written and thought was pretty solid, and the new endings ( I’ll talk about them) Endings: I think tao’s ending is the best of the two since it makes the most sense, wanting to reshape the world as it was before and wanting everything to be back to normal is the most logical. Yoko’s ending is alright to me, the issue is that her reasoning feels half baked to me. We only hear her reasoning right at the end of the game so it didn’t really click to me. I think Koshimizu being the new proto fiend you fuse after Aogami gets sucked into Tiamat is a good change of pace since we get to know more about him, I also really like the Tsukuyomi proto fiend design personally. Yuzuru is probably my favourite character in the vengeance route due to the events giving him his reasoning, him making a deal with Eisheth so that he could kill Kei Amemura ( the protag) so that he could save the only family member he has left, I don’t blame him for what he had to do even though he could’ve ending someone’s life in the process. His death made me very upset when Abdiel k*lled him in cold blood I like how people acknowledge tao’s powers more often and her dialogue is better written, the issue in the canon of creation is that almost no one acknowledge tao’s power. Shakan is a beautiful looking dungeon especially the music, the puzzles are just brutal imo. Omnipotent succession is a really good Magatsuhi skill if you’re using the right kits for the nahobino So I give smt 5 vengeance a 9/10 ( which is my first smt game and I already like it more than persona)
SMTV didn’t need a redemption. It was always genuinely fantastic and one of the best entries. SmTIV was the trip up. Vengeance just helped people understand it better. I’m just happy I got more goodies to play with. SMTV Goty again 💪
@@llinium Gameplay wise it blows SMTIV out of the water in everything. Balance, variety of builds, removal of smirking, demons are actually unique (not this blank slate nonsense with more hp less mp, equal mp hp, and more mp less hp), field hit boxes are fixed (smtiv’s hit boxes where all over the place), and the return of vit (no more tissues paper demons)! Gameplay wise smtiv always had flaws since day one. Story wise SMTIV is a collection of cool ideas but the execution is messy. Highly dependent on exposition to get the story across. It’s tell don’t show. For me that was a big flaw in smtiv. While SMTV both CoC and CoV have better written stories, characters, and focus on show don’t tell. However the answers are in the game if you observe and take your time. SMTV is a beautiful game.
My favorite part of Yoko's edgy writing is when they talk about cars and the deaths that their creation has caused. Takaya makes the same comment in Persona 3 Reload and this specific comment always makes me laugh my ass off.
Honestly ive found this version a little harder. Maybe i got overleveled at some point in the original, because the difficulty fell off a cliff around the 3rd area. Here there was at least some challenge up until the end.
I love this game. Original SMT5 was fine but my main issue was the characters. Even in SMT1 and 2 I had more love for the characters. But in Vengeance that changed. You could really feel the friendship of all the characters and when Dazai killed Yuzuru that was the saddest moment in the game for me. Also when Mastema made Dazai a statue I was angry at that as well. Even though I knew Mastema was an asshole from Strange Journey and I was actually expecting for him to shit on us though not in such a way. Overall I love this game.
This video is probably the most "I agree with your general overview and some points about it but I think there's a few points here or there that imo miss the forest for the trees" I've ever seen I find a bunch of your opinions on things like the gameplay balance and the way the reused parts of the game mesh with the new content something I disagree with, but not entirely. It'd be much more productive to the discussion this brings to write my own review instead of just a comment, but regardless I found it quite interesting. No one's experience is wrong, but I think the comparison between this game's new toys and something like Theurgy to be two very different discussions. I find it interesting that people still see that modern Atlus design philosophy in V - I certainly didn't miss it (hiiii Konohana Sakuya), but the balance is so solid that I don't necessarily dislike it. The real problem with giving new toys to the player is when they outscale the game. However, I've been doing something silly and stupid, I've been playing with a Luck build and my damage feels... Relatively normal! So maybe if I were to go all the way on a Strength or Magic build, I would feel similarly to you. Maybe that's a sign to dial back the Nahobino's ability to scale back, though that comes at the cost of narrative cohesion like you've said (which is a really good point I didn't consider myself) I also VASTLY disagree with the assessment of Yoko and arguably cherry picking her two worst instances of her characterization lol. Also, characters are more interesting when they are flawed!! Yoko not only is flawed but brings out the flaws in our main cast, particularly Tao. Their flaws are what makes them interesting!! Yoko is single-handedly the reason why Tao isn't a Mary Sue...again. Also, she's very much an equal and opposite to Tao - they are both supposed to generally endear the protagonist to a path. I think if Yoko were any more fleshed out, she'd stand out too hard against the previous characters. Again, more constructive to make a whole character analysis than a "I disagree" comment, but details. Good video though woohoo
@@DragonKingX78 eh i like it Its supposed to be him ascending back to his angelic form before his fall so it makes sense his angelic form has aspects similar to metatron considering how high he used to be in the archangel hiearchy He even calls it his true form
I thought the original was kind of meh but I'm loving Vengeance and I'm almost at the end. The changes may seem small, but overall they made an enjoyable experience that is (for me) on par with Nocturne.
I loved the addition of innate skills. Adds a lot of character-through-gameplay. Beelze getting to native double debilitate but he's sexist so no Femme/Lady/Megami (nor Herald) on the team? Forneus+Decab being true bffs? Abaddon+Loa the Mitama slaying power couple? Arahabaki being a bro and sharing his buffs with tag ins? Just oozes personality when it clicks.
weird, Shakan ended up becoming my favourite Dungeon, i would normally hate Heavenly looking Dungeons too unless they were made Dark and Gritty somehow, either way the Music and Puzzles in it, can't get enough, like it even more than the Open World ones
I feel really bad because I'm a diehard SMT fan myself, but I enjoyed the endings in CoC more than CoV. That's not to say I liked CoC more because I don't. Vengeance had more to do, more story beats that were great, but I think I was just missing a neutral route since the True Ending was good. I felt Yakumo got pushed to the wayside and I was concerned about that. However, CoV felt more natural with alignment (your choices influence the game instead of choosing at the end) which is an SMT staple. tldr; 10/10 game, Beelzebub has the best battle music and I really just wanted to blow up the throne like last time.
![[FULL] RETROSPECTIVE : Final Fantasy Tactics](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RUBmYqs1jZ0/mqdefault.jpg)
Download Asphalt Legends Unite now: gmlft.co/NamsCompendium
#asphaltlegendsunite #alupartner
I think it'd be very interesting if you ever talked about triangle strategy or octopath traveler if either of those games interests you
Hey Nam, who was your favorite NEW demon in Vengeance???
@@greenflame2425 Dude! I've been wanting him to talk about Octopath for YEARS now, ether that, Baten Kaitos or any of the Dragon Quest games.
Looking forward to watching this one, also what’s the timeframe on the Xenoblade 2 video?
X
,l v 9d n@@greenflame2425
CONGRATULATIONS TAO AND YUZURU.🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 YOU GUYS NOW ARE ACTUAL CHARACTERS🎉🎉🎉🎉
Those 2 are my favourite characters in the vengeance route
They always were actual characters but Tao truly became best girl.
Shame about Miyazu.
And Yuzuru got own battle theme (Deadlock) which is remix of Virtual Battler from SMT 2 - 10/10
The bullied girl still died. I wish they did more with her.
SMT V Vengeance changed my life when Yoko said Cars kill people. Truly a masterpiece of a game, SMT is so back.
The point is that she's against sacrificing people for the good of the many
@@Mavuika_Gyaru I guess the point flew right over my head because she said it in the dumbest analogy possible
@@kageleo7003 it's clear when you hear her mentality in the empyrean
I laughed so hard at that. SMTV was always a little anime cringe but vengeance leaned into that aspect hard. Yoko is a dollar-store Light Yagami and while I do enjoy that, I miss the writing of older games.
public transit is superior to cars and she’s right to say it
Man, Atlus was so nice to give us the Beta of SMTV a whole 2 years prior the game so we could enjoy a little bit before the FULL project. Truly happy they gave us this chance...
$60 beta but facts lol
@@MogekoMagica Yeah, imagine charging us full price of a "game" (because I can't think of anything else to define SMTV than a Beta), and then charging us later the full game. Really hope this is not the new rule going forward, because if so, I will really consider not giving Atlus new chances...
@@ReallyReallyTryingI’m pretty sure SMT V might be the last game where they do this. I heard from somewhere that they’re moving on from that strategy to releasing full games at launch.
@@ReallyReallyTryingThey've been on this since Nocturne lol
While knowing the awful history of the development of SMT 5, they shouldnt have released it regardless.
One of my favorite aspects of Yoko is her friendship with you is genuine. Even when she gets her memories back, she still sides with you against the Quadistu. She's also happy you survived the sacrifice.
She also cute. 100/10
Yeah I still like her character with how blunt she is, I won't pretend shes super complex though. Also she makes for very cool photos with the MC 😁
I want to disagree on Yoko having no nuanced moments, because there was one. When it came to fulfilling the Qadistu's plan, she initially sided AGAINST them, and seemed to really care for Tao even though they always disagreed, it was only after you failed and Lilith's talk with her that Yoko goes back onto her dark path.
^ not just that but multiple times when you agree with Tao in wanting a perfect world free of suffering Yoko will initially agree and say it sounds great, but ultimately just isn't possible in a system that's flawed from the roots. I feel like Yoko wants to believe the lie that we can achieve peace in a flawed system because for once she has friends she actually cares about, but she stays the course and keeps herself focused on her goal. I can agree that since a lot of this is during side conversations and one off lines that if you blink you'll miss. It might have been a better idea to have her say these things during major cutscenes so it stuck with people more.
Except you didn’t fail. You beat the qadistu but the game said no you actually lost. Story fell off starting here
@@t_bone2145If it was a first Nuwa fight situation where you get Lilith to half health instead of fully beating her, it would make more sense.
Plus Yoko reminds me of an ex-lover.
Nothing wrong with that. Thr story doesnt fall off, it just takes a backseat in Taito, thats all@t_bone2145
I feel like Yoko's purpose in having the psuedo-intellectual edgy statements is to further sow the idea of Chaos in both our head - and more importantly - in Tao's. Remember, her heel turn prior to the Qadistu Showdown battle reveals that she isn't possessed, mind controlled, or anything like that into being a double agent for the Caddy Stew. She was doing it completely willingly, having said that, her friendship with you and Tao was genuine; she also says that herself in the minor conversations in the demon haunts.
She really cares for the both of you - and wants you to see what Chaos has to offer. So these out of line, edgy af statements may be...yikes writing; but they aren't without reason. She's slowly seeding the idea of a completely fresh start in both your mind, and Tao's. And to a degree, it does work with Tao up until she's yeeted into Panagia form by the Qadistu in the "You Won? Sike!" cutscene following the showdown. Yoko changes Tao with the edgy over-the-top statements; and Tao imprints the idea that, yeah the world may be flawed, but there are things in it worth keeping, on Yoko.
It's a dichotomy that maybe I'm looking too deep into, I still find it makes Yoko a good character. Even if, and I cannot stress this enough - her writing can be a bit yikes here and there.
I think that it lacked better writting to deliver that, Yoko just sounds like your average Twitter user which is realistical considering her age and all but it doesn't do a good impression in most people, and the ending itself also lacked especially for Chaos, the whole final arc fell off.
I think that the story could've been better if it focused more on Dazai and Yuzuru instead like CoC was supposed to be or if they made the alligment split happen earlier and gave a better closure to the girls' in the end.
It makes me feel kind of bad when you get the law ending when Yoko was seemingly by Lilith toward the end
Plus for her to show her original face outside of the black futuristic alien iron man thing and simply talk it out. I fell for this character. Just me and her in that world.
to be fair for Lucifer sticking around as the final boss in Vengeance, you need to defeat him to access the Throne/Mandala system given he owns it since he took out God, even if he rejects it. Basically it wont answer to the Nahobino/Goddess of Creation until the current owner is dealt with.
thats how i see it, plus i like Lucifer
And, like Kagatsuchi in Nocturne, if you reject creation outright (but not in the way he'd want), he doesn't even fight you in the normal neutral ending.
@@mr.personalspace7831 yeah
I always saw it as Lucifer taking a different approach to passing down his philosophy for a free world. Manipulating someone into following his beliefs (like he did with Naoki) was effective enough to dethrone The Creator, but in the process it created a demon who desires only freedom for himself rather than freedom for mankind. Lucifer needed someone both strong and willing to unshackle all of humanity from the Mandala System, which is why he challenges the Nahobino who had already proven themselves to have the necessary strength to create a new world
@@nataliecoronado4206 interesting thought
I saw it as Lucifer offering him strength through his Knowledge after his defeat in order to secure his new reign
Game improved the moment Mastema arrived
Mastema elevates any game he is in
Ong, greatest law rep in the Axiom
Agree, but sad of how he was made a robot servant in Apocalypse! Was super excited when I saw the Vengeance trailer.
@@classicalthrasher one of the cons of that game. Imagine high angel like Metatron and Mastema getting the Ctrl C + Ctrl V treatment
Means I get to kill him, again!
Oh lord in heaven, hear my prayers
AND ANSWER!
As I like to say, SMT V really came back with a Vengance.
You win the Nobel Pun Award🏆
“You side with Yoko because you thoroughly agree with her ideology”
Yeah, uh, that’s totally why I sided with Yoko, definitely
Please don't tell me you're down-bad for the Shadow to Tao's Sonic.
Yo She's definitely into femboys
Get them while they're hot!
@@mr.personalspace7831they probably are
Personally, I heard Chiwa Saito's voice come out of her mouth and immediately decided I was going with whatever alignment she was.
@@mr.personalspace7831 Can you see all of me?
Walk into my mystery
Step inside and hold on for dear life
The level scaling is actually a huge improvement because before, fights really were just a test of how much you grinded rather than your strategy or team setup until the demifiend fight. Whereas now i was able to take out Shiva at level 80 with demons at level 76 and 60 just by having a good strategy and press turn management. I fought so many bosses earlier on than i did in the OG game and thise optional stronger bosses were sometimes harder than the OG at that point simply because i was able to tackle them with less powerful demons and they were more rewarding because i did it on my own time after diguring out the strategy. OG didnt let me do that. Like you said you managed to do jt 5 levels under in OG, and i dont think you realize how small of a distance that is in this game. 5 levels is nothing, it should not feel like a huge crazy challenge just 5 levels apart.
Yeah
Lilith was kicking my shin and I back tracked to get Cleopatra
Yea just to say
I kept artemis
Idun
And Cirronup the entire game ever since i got them all the way to lvl 99 lmao
Also the fact thay they added over 4 hours of new music is insane.
wtf turtle chad i didnt know you were an smt enjoyer
I will say that you didn't really fail to see the way Yoko slightly did change through the game. She did become slightly less radical in her views using the painting analogy as an example. She said that before she would just scrap the whole painting if it had a mistake but now she was willing to instead of scraping it all to try and fix the parts she didn't like to preserve what she did like (i.e. Tao and you). It is kind of a shame that some of that development did get cast away after the Quadistu sacrifice Aogami, and presumably kills Tao and you. However, i still thing that was a realistic reaction. Imagine if the two people who helped you change your views and gave you a slight bit of hope for the world were killed by that same world you once saw hope in. And it is not like when she learned about you and Tao were alive in the emperyean that she disregards all of tour prior experiences as she is happy to see them alive. At that point, it is just too late for any changes in view and both Yoko and Tao are set and decided on their goals.
It is the same way Tao slightly changed through Yoko's view too. It made her realise that a world of peace were everyone is happy is alot more complicated to be obtained because in reality not everyone will be happy in order to make some people happy you are eventually going to anger some people.
So, yeah I personally disagree on the point you said about Yoko.
Yoko actually changes her plans when you reach the throne, when she recognizes the MC she immediately wants to create a new world with him and only goes back to using Tiamat if we choose Tao
3:25 aside from the brief Womb of Grief intro section, SJ Redux lets you experience the original story and the original endings. I know you hate it but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just forgot.
Nam complaining that Yoko does nothing but speak her alignment is funny when that's 90% of SMT characters lmao. Characters never been the strong suit of the IP. What makes the point even funnier is it's disengenuous to say it's all Yoko is, she has a genuine friendship with Tao kind of like in SMT IV and potraying her alignment as just grr status quo is very surface level.
Yeah, that. Even if IV has the good storytelling and characters, once they transformed into their respective rep demonic avatars, they are just as bad as Yoko and Tao. The alignment endings of IV actually no better than V original ending tbh.
Yeah, I dont like Yoko but she is arguably just as well written as the alignment reps in SMT 4. I think, maybe because of nostalgia or just the likeability of Walter and Jonathan, people forget how they were basically just walking alignment reps too.
Arguably SJ is the only one thats done a good job of showing the characters slowly develop into their alignment.
@@louish5068 One thing that especially helps with Yoko is that there isn’t a heel-turn with her. She is always talking about how she hates the status quo, so her taking that to a universal level is a mostly natural evolution
I’m liking all these vengeance reviews dropping one by one in one week
Playing from level 1 to godborn takes time especially if start in hard mode in the first playthough
There IS merit to playing Canon of Creation in Vengeance
You get to fight Masakado
There are also demons unique to each path.
@@DragonKingX78What demons are exclusive to each route?
When it comes to your last point SMTVV should have came out as an expansion instead of a whole new game, similar to how Capcom deals with Monster Hunter.
Then in the future Atlus can release their games then months to a year later let out a huge paid DLC expansion to it that make it far better, but in reality we know they wont do that because it would make them less money than a whole entire re-release.
I understand what you’re saying, but then we wouldn’t have the PS5 release. Even with SMT5 being as lackluster as it was, it was too good to be switch exclusive. Don’t get me wrong, I still bought it, but man was it rough.
@@kidhavii They could have done both.
This is probably one of the biggest examples of "thanks for beta testing guys" I've ever seen 😂 I'm never going to buy an Atlus game on launch ever again!
People will claim that endings like true neutral or smt4 law are too extreme because they genocide a group of people while at the same time wholeheartedly simping for yoko to kill off literally everything😂
Yeah she wants to destroy everything and I mean everything.
It’s nice that the law ending isn’t the genocide ending this time
It's like if the White ending in SMT IV had a cute waifu as it's representative
Yoko is cuter than Merkahbah, and will let me read my manga. Nuff said.
There are too many SMT fans who talk about Persona being just waifu wars and then do stuff like this. Like SMT is my favorite series ever but it's tiring to see the hypocrisy
I don't think you really grasp Yoko when it came to the Sahori bullying scene. Sahori at that point had already come to an ultimatum and she wasn't ever going to be talked down, it was far to late for that outcome. When Yoko told her that her only option is violence against the girls harassing her it's because Tao literally could not do anything else for someone that far gone. Tao even ends up doing siding with Sahori's attempt at violence which makes Sahori see that she did have people who cared about her and that her call to violence was to extreme. Yoko was basically in the right.
Also She is not a teenager, you're right but shes DEFINITELY not a human.
@@DarkuuArmatii thought it was the same situation as tao tho? Lived a human life but is really a goddess. The quadist mentioned how her teacher tried to kill her out of jealousy and thats the reason why her human side wanted revenge anyway
@@duddud___8700 I thought Tao was raised as a human with no knowledge of her godhood till later.
@@DarkuuArmati The goddesses are just humans with powers at least initially. They only cease to behuman once they actually awaken as a goddess.
@@duddud___8700Yoko was fully aware she was a goddess I think. Because she was aware her powers were stolen form her when the creator betrayed her and was willing to work with the quadistu to get them back.
Literally the worst thing about Dazai is he goes from having the personality of a designated RPG healer who’s barely containing themself from delivering a speech about friends being their source of power, immediately to strangling orphans, all during the space of a single cutscene. A cutscene in which an angel of Bethel tells them about their holy mission or whatever. Like you’d think Jeffrey Dahmer was the one who gave the pep talk lmao
Dazai should've got with Mastema's influence earlier and we slowly saw his behavior changing untill the point where he enters the Aizen mode and kills Yuzuru
Absolutely like if they bought the people being turned to salt into the story at the same time as the Quadistu then he could have been free by Mastema, which could have inspired him to help Bethel to begin with and then slowly be corrupted
Yeah, Dazai is the only character I feel got handled poorly still. His sudden turn from finding power in friendship, to then trying to out edgelord Yoko was just bizarre XD
@@johnhogan8224Yeah, they could've introduced this earlier and then Abdiel would make some sort of deal with Mastema and he would be within the Bethel HQ with others, so he starts corrupting Dazai and would manipulate Abdiel for his own purposes
It's totally in character for him to something like that and it would have done his presence in the story way better than what they did.
@@renren47618 Fuck I forgot about the Aizen hair slickback lmao
I really agree with your final point in this video. I am so hyped for Metaphor, but am also worried that it's going to be compromised by an enhanced version in a few years that nullifies the hundreds of hours I've put into my save in the original game.
It's pretty safe to say they're going to do it. They did with P5, they did with Etrian Odyssey, they did with SMT V, & SMT IV was the only exception really as Apocalypse was a sequel. Oh & Radiant Historia Perfect Chronology too, so we have 4/5 cases of them just doing a better version after the initial release. You pay full price for the worst version of a game right now, & 80% odds are pretty bad to buy at launch now lol
Honestly im happy to have played both the original smt 5 and vengence now i feel like the context of the original game made me apreciate the differences and improvements in vengence way more
The devs were allowed to cook, and we got served a delicious meal.
Ironically the best enhanced rereleases Atlus has done are SMT5V and P5R at least in my opinion they vastly improved P5 with P5R
P5R's in a weird place because the story / character additions are all great but the gameplay additions make the combat a braindead bore on every difficulty level. I can't say that P5R truly replaces vanilla P5, because I would probably have more fun replaying Vanilla P5 than Royal.
...Whereas with SMTV I literally can't think of a single reason to ever revisit Vanilla.
@@halowaffle25but
But
But merciless isnt that hard in vanilla in the first place???
Least unless you fight the reaper (without cheese) and the twins
@@Shadowizzmoneygang Yeah but you get an XP nerf on merc in the original. in P5R merc get's you MORE xp than normal for some reason??
@@yasahana4447 yea honestly i dont understand that
I played vengeance first and didn’t have a problem understanding the story, it was also pretty clear to me that it’s not an entirely new story and moreso a more focused retelling with more emphasis on certain parts of the story, so it certainly didn’t feel “shackled” by the original since it’s essentially the same story.
Also, if the original feels more aimless, I’m not sure I’d recommend anyone play 80 hours of the original first and move onto 80 hours of essentially the same story with new characters when you could just play the new version if you plan on doing just one playthrough.
I didn't dislike Yoko, but some of her takes were really wild and I genuinely have no idea what they were thinking when they wrote her in some instances.
The quest with the Voivre and the human who cared about her was yoko at her worst imo, she had the audacity to justify a pointless death of a minor in the name of "at least he died satisfied". That scene and "Cars r bad because people die in car accidents" just made her look like total dumbass.
Gotta disagree on the Voivre quest bit. I think that's just Yoko embodying her ideology well. Chaos as a whole is very 'live fast, die young'. From a certain point of view, you could argue that student found more fulfilment in dying a fulfilling death than continuing to be a cog in the Tokyo Metropolitan machine.
Whether you personally agree or disagree with that is up to you, but it's at least logically consistent with Yoko's other views.
@halowaffle25 That wasn't the agrument she made though. She said it's better for him to "die fufilled" than to live with the trauma of watching voivre die knowing her past which is just absurd. This line of thinking implies that trauma victims are better off dead when we know fully well in the modern era of mental health recovery is possible.
She also has the nerve to argue "we were just following his orders so we should have let him die" which is also an awful implication in of itself. There are plenty of times I agree with yoko, but at her worst she just sounds really ignorant. The the voivre side quest was the only time she genuinely upset me.
I get the whole chaos alignment idea but it doesn't come off as "live fast die young" to me, more "live isn't worth living if you're traumatized" and "if its his wish to die, no matter how ignorant it may seem, just let him die! We're just granting his wishes c:"
I don't think "living with trauma" or whatever was the point of that quest.
The choices presented to you are more about the subject of personal freedom/agency and how you, as a bystander who doesn't really get affected by the outcome either way, treat the actions and desires of other people. Picking the "Chaos" option means that you are willing to respect the wish of an individual (even if you personally disagree with it or even consider it dumb) and see it through until the end no matter what, regardless of the consequences, just because *that is what that person wants for themselves* - the absolute "freedom to choose" and all that. Picking the "Law" option, on the contrary, implies that there are some things that are above personal freedom of choice, and that it is "objectively correct" to interfere with that freedom when the outcome it leads to crosses certain boundaries. You seem to strongly believe in the latter, and that's perfectly fine, but it doesn't mean that the other choice is somehow inherently "wrong" or something - it just seems that way to you because our personal beliefs inherently make us biased towards the things that go against them.
Lastly, don't forget that this whole situation is (intentionally) incredibly limited in scope, so the idea of "but what if this affects other people" doesn't really go into the consideration here at all. The question here is about how you treat an individual's choice in a vacuum, when the outcome affects only that person and that person alone, not about selfishness vs greater good.
PS: I'm getting a bit tired seeing so many people treat Yoko like a lunatic because of her car rant, when she is actually 100% correct (and so is Takaya in Persona 3 Reload, who uses the exact same argument at one point - I don't see people constatnly calling *him* an idiot, for some reason). Her wording there could use some refining, sure, yet the idea behind it is perfectly solid. By putting some - not even that severe - limitations on cars we could prevent a huge amount of car-related deaths all over the world (and I'm not even talking about the whole carbon footprint issue, or problems like constant noise in areas with high traffic), but that will most likely never happen, because those same limitations would also make our daily lives less convenient. So it goes back to the whole "people refuse to see things that don't directly affect them" point that she makes against the current system. I really don't see the issue.
@@MegaGameXtreme I would agree with you, but you should experience America and then see about changing you mind regarding mental health and trauma recovery.
It's better to die with fulfillment when you're in a rigged system where you may not even get the human right that is humane healthcare, man.
With that being said, I also would point out that it's also mindful to live a short life doing what you enjoy than living a dreadful hundred years stagnating and doing nothing.
The car one was hilarious. People die of a lot of other things and those other things aren't rare. One of those is, consequence of fastfood consumption. Should we ban that just because people are irresponsible? Same can be said with cars. We have traffic laws for a reason. Cars can't abide by them because they can't think. It's people that are responsible for everything. That's why I don't understand people who talk about gun violence. The gun is not dangerous without the one using it. If someone gets shot it's almost always human violence or error.
32:57 The final boss of the game in the Canon of Vengeance route, Lucifer, states that if you defeat him the Mandala system will crumble with him as well and that is his goal. Unless I misread what was said, in this game, the final world that you make with your friends is the final world that will be made in the endless cycle and I feel that makes your final choice in the game far more impactful
Honestly that is such a cheap cop out
But its worse then that because the throne was built by the horned god after he slew tiamat so what stops any other law demon from doing the same shit in the chaos ending?
At least the law ending doesnt mention demons being a thing but i still cant imagim the world going on forever anyway samael states that lilith and the others came from a separate universe so what is stopping a mc donalds employe from accidentaly summoning a freakin belberith nahobino from another world and he taking the throne away from you since it still exist in the law route?
The lucifer fight shouldnt be about whe stopping mandela from ever going into office but isntead about we making him realize that the world being ciclical is actually a good thing since that means that no aligment can stay in power forever and they have a short period of time where they can try to rule the world so we can figure out the perfect system and both humans and demons will stop fighting because there is no point anymore
So one of the super bosses comments on this: by defeating Lucifer you'll free this world from the Mandala system but that's nothing in the grand multiverse of worlds connected by the Mandala system
I remember I fought Shiva as soon as I unlocked him, got my ass flipped, went to shadow realm, loaded up a devious one shot build and went back in with omnipotent succession + omagatoki charge + 5 press turns.
that OTK was the most satisfying sh!t I've done.
Oh and the demi-fiend one, though that took me 29 attemps because mf kept using gaea rage, I just needed a full buff, demi-fiend full debuffed, and a dodge the previous turn + popping up impaler's animus instead of omnipotent succession. He almost survived, almost.
(Spoilers P5 and SMTVV) In my opinion, the Shinjuku Government Building was the most insane narrative point I’ve seen in any ATLUS game I’ve played, this isn’t like P5 where everybody dies just to come back 20 minutes later for some forgettable reason and then fight a god- no, I lost a character I connected with in a way, permanently. Sure, Aogami came back but the pain from that section really put the Vengeance name into perspective like you said in the video. And the negatives you said about Shakan were things I didn’t even notice because I was so upset by them killing Aogami and Yuzuru that I just spedran Shakan as fast as possible.
Exactly. What reason did I have to think that Aogami was going to come back, when for pretty much the second half of the game, I had Tsukuyomi with me?
Though I do agree with Nam that Shakan is pretty bland. Honestly, both dungeons were pretty bland when compared to older titles.
But yeah, Aogami's death was still impactful, since you get to sit with it for basically the rest of your time in the game.
This was the final nail where i decided to go with the law path
Yoko betrays you and is at least partially responsible for killing aogami and while that happens tao just uses her magic to make so at least you can live and find vengence against tiamat
One thing people say about law routes is that usually there is no in game reason for the mc to go to them other then player choice the original was like that where at every point it was making the angels to just be assholes with you own existence being a crime to them
But this time i see no reason to follow chaos everytime i think about siding with yoko i can only picture aogami and tsukoyomi being like "bro wtf"
@@joshdavis8381he shouldnt have returned tbh
HAha
Man when at 36:55 you said listen to Yokos edgy speech an ad for pippa pig came up, great timing😂
This redemption is a little too expensive considering i bought the original at full price.
Thank god I didn't buy it when it came out, I made that mistake when I bought persona 5.
💀
Thank you for saying this. Why couldn't vengeance have been SMT V on release back then? :(
I'm still playing the PS3 P5 😭
pidgeot noises intensifies
o7
@@superizillian957 to be fair theres no way you coulda known royal was gonna be a thing lol
Ya waited like what. 4 or 5 years?
i love that "lacked heart" part poked early. I'm looking at you ign
I wish quests that give you unique items would give you balms, incenses, macca, etc. after you have gotten those items.
For yoko i seen so many reactions to her either tour perspecive or people finding ehr hilarious woth her shadow the hedgehog personality but overall she seems well liked by the communtiy
Only took 'em, like what, 7 years to finish it. 😂 Goidа
The re-release like this one is the reason why I don't want to buy Metaphor. Atlus (or Sega) gets away a bit too much with shitty monetization schemes like rereleases, Abuse DLC, etc. Hearing that they did delist the first game is definitely not a good look for what they do.
Of course, they make some great games, incredible game even. And quite frankly, I'm convinced that Metaphor will be an incredible success. It is just sad to see that, little by little, they try to push the limit of what monetization scheme they can find.
Atlus already said that Vengeance will be there last re-release and moving towards DLC.
@@DragonKingX78 I will believe it when I see it.
The company who made tons of money with re-release who said they don't plan to do it anymore would be a massive surprise for me.
It's easy to say that now and then, 2 years later, here's a new re-release of another game. Especially when the dust is settled.
If you're willing to wait 3 years for a potential re-release, because you hate the idea of paying full price twice, then you could just as well not buy the re-release when it launches and wait for it to go on sale.
Atlus always puts their games on sale within a year after release, like 50% off even, so to the point where the re-release would cost you the same as a new DLC expansion would for something like Elden Ring or even Cyberpunk 2077.
@@arcadis exactly remember when atlus sais p3r wasnt gonna get the female lead or answer just tp anouce it a month and half later for 35 bucks. You just never know these days but they have done this with every damn game its not even worth buying on release
the only problem with the original level scaling was that you could not beat a boss without running out of a full sp bar for the most part.
Very good video with good points. However, I disagree with you on three things.
1. "Why is Lucifer here?" He's the one who took the throne from God, he is the reason why Da'at exist and why the conception failed (thus Japan still exists), and he's not just going to let a Nahobino take he's throne without showing their strong conviction.
2. "The new content takes too long to get to." Brother it only takes like a 20 something minutes to get to the train section. Unless you have an attention span you can't control. I think anyone who can should wait.
3. "Surprised that not a lot of people aren't complaining that the original SMT V is delisted." I'm not. Why complain when it still exist both physical and digital in Vengeance? Sure you have to pay 60 dollars for it, but since it comes with the Canon of Vengeance. I can kind of understand why. The only part I will agree with you on in some ways is preservation. As much as I despise the original it should still exist because of the hard work that was put in and should be acknowledged for what it was. I say sort of agree because of what I said a couple of sentences ago about it still existing in Vengeance.
yeah it feels disingenous to act like the first area is exactly the same in CoV when they added two whole new bosses to it, one of which you fight within the first hour at most. Sure, story wise it deviates the least compared to the other areas but it's all just establishing the setting anyway there was never much that actually happens there.
Wouldn't call the first area the exact same because not only do you have the new experience of having an npc party member, but also they ditched the abscess fog on the map, meaning we can actually see where we're going now. Massive improvement.
Man, i will simp for Yoko all day long. Chaos ending ftw
i'm really happy they went back to smt v and "fixed" it. I enjoyed the original but can't deny it lacked in many aspects and i'd say having to buy the game again was damn worth it. some things i still think could've been done differently but in the end it's an amazing game. I do wish we had more time in the tsukuyomi form, maybe even til the end of the game
Vengeance is my second favorite JRPG. It’s wonderful
IDK I actually would have preferred the fog of war remaining. It's what helped me **find** the abscesses in vanilla SMTV
No one:
Absolutely no one:
Yoko: you know even when wearing seatbelts people still die in car crashes? I find that interesting.
we the og player from the nintendo switch feels like we are the beta tester lmao..
not complaining too much tho, the fact that the story is improved and now more people can play it in PC or console means more people can experienced the mainline titles..
Abdiel's form change is the biggest "have you seen the Canon of Creation route" moment in Vengeance. Like you could tell someone who's only played the Vengeance route that she fully died but her Magatsuhi was collected by someone like Dazai and they reconstructed her and ended up with a twisted, but more powerful form and they would probably believe you. Rather than it just being her resolve after being beaten the first time being so strong that she underwent a dark evolution. And on top of that she doesn't even talk much in said new form in the Vengeance route. This isn't necessarily something I had an issue with, mind you. I just sort of found it amusing how such a dramatic change in one of the characters is just sort of glossed over in the Vengeance route😝
Sometimes the games touch on demon summoniners actually removing the demons free will walter talked about this and devil survivor was only possible because of that and this game touched on this briefely when yuzuru basically said "shut up and obey me" to hayotaro
Wished they delved into this fully with dazai we could have killed her in shakan and dazai alongside mastema revived her corpse stripped her from her free will and forced her to fall that would explain why she doesnt talk as well and would expend on the concept they introduced with hayotaro
My problem with level scaling on the OG is that the game was either too easy or too hard with it. Too hard in some very specific fights like Loup Garou or Shiva, and too easy on most of the other fights when you just did the side quests and ended up going above the average enemy level, so a fight that would be interesting ends up being forgetable. It just made me paranoic about keeping my level balanced and I ended up not able to enjoy the only redemable aspect about the OG game which was gameplay, which regardless of this feature I still feel like it was inferior to 4A.
Level scaling also made fights go for way too long. Nuwa first fight when I was underleveled was easy overall with wind block demons, but it just took forever for her to "die", with me running out of MP for my main party and subs, which in turn made the fight go even longer.
5V I just never had to worry about any of that, fights were challenging just the right way regardless of level and ended up rewarding you way more for preparing well to the fight. Tho, some demon traits definitively broke the game, but I find it ok since you have to go quite out of your way to setup those comps. And yeah, I played both versions on hard.
Will say... the Beelzebub theme in COV is my new favorite for that fight
I hope there will be more DLC that adds characters from DDS1+2, Soul Hackers 1+2, past SMT, etc.
At the end of the game you tear the universe out of the mandala system of death and rebirth so while it's still possible for a new nahobino to take the throne it's not guaranteed because that cycle is no longer a fundamental part of existence
Also yoko's ending is just the white ending in 4, a new world won't come out of it
Let's all hope they let the studio finish the next game before they release it, or at least make the inevitable fixes an update and dlc instead of a full price game.
I am sure that is the reason they no longer announce a game until it as least 75% complete.
I have a lot of empathy for Yoko, mainly because I was that troubled edgelord teenager who had every negative take on the world as a whole, but got to that point by being hurt and left helpless by a system that doesn't care about you. That said, when we learn about the reasons that drove her be so bitter, it was more tell than show, and it was beside the point because Aogami and Tao are taking the brunt of that omission in duplicity. It's a shame because I would 1000% believe if that bitterness was coming from Sahori, but alas, constraints of the narrative.
That aside, for me SMT V went from a game where while I adored the gameplay, that directionless-ness and lack of character/story had me stop after the Loup-Garou boss asking "why do I care about what happens to these characters". To SMT VV where I became so attached to everyone so quickly that when half the cast got seemingly offed in one go I had to take a day or so to emotionally recover before continuing to play and finish my first run.
It makes me very eager to try earlier SMT games ( ꈍᴗꈍ)
not a megaten game, but Radiant Historia Perfect Chronology is developed by Atlus and also lets you turn off the new content for the rerelease. …Which is kind of weird because basically all of the new content is optional side quests. More options are nice, I guess.
It’s to help people who have never played the original appreciate the original release. Then play it with the new content. I appreciate it. That said in SMTV’s case it is also done because SMTV CoC is fantastic the way it is. Vengeance helps fill out some stuff and vice versa. Both are SMTV and it’s beautiful.
Radiant Historia was developed by Tri-Ace (Star Ocean, Resonanse of Fate, Valkyrie Profile) with small help Studio Zero (Trauma Center, Stella Deus, Catherine).
@@nr2676 everything i can find online says it was at least co-developed by atlus
Will probably play it when it goes on sale got so many things to play already.
What you say of the final area not making sense in CoV is very true. This is the first time i play smt5 and i herad that the story was terrible so i decided to try CoV forst and i had a blast. The story was good for the most part till i reached Taito, i felt like this race for the creation came out of nowhere and the ending part of the game felt very rushed. But now with the knowledge of CoC all of it makes a whole lot more sense now
One thing I would like to know is what relationships the player character had before the game. Miyazu is the only one we know with certainty.
He returns with a vengeance
I started on vengeance because this game is too long to be playing twice for a smidge of difference in ending story. Vengeance added sooooo much the vanilla one left our and needed it would be odd going back and playing. Overall videos like yours help to piece together the story and vengeance is the definitive one
In Nahobeeho we trust
15:58 I'm sorry bro but I cant take you seriously with Nahobeeho in the background doing the most hilarious skill.
Kinda agree with the take on the delisting from the storefront, but given Vengeance literally has the base game with all DLC in it, I think this might be the most ethical compromise in a way, to prevent people from buying the base game and then realize that the final version was actually available with no way to refund?
OH that's why the Nahobino turns purple!!
I just beat vanilla smt5 earlier today. Didn't feel like playing it all again so I put on this video. Now I am learning that I may want to play Vengeance for myself one day because OH my gosh the story sounds fascinating. They made Dazai and Yuzuru friends ??? They gave Yuzuru a personality?? THEY KILLED HIM??!! Oh my gosh tea. And fusing with Koshimizu is GENIUS, what a great addition! Dang maybe I will pick up Vengeance.... not anytime soon though, the thought of playing the game that made Shiva way easier after literally spending almost 3 hours getting my butt handed to me yesterday sounds... irritating 😭😭
But this video was super thorough and did a great job expressing a comprehensive view of Vengeance, thank you! Exactly what I needed.
Side note - Devil Survivor 2 actually has TWO stories in Record Breaker: the original, and a sequel which vastly changes the game. It's not like a sort of rewrite like Vengeance but a seamless continuation of the story. DeSu2 is my favorite video game of all time so I wanted to clarify that ha ha
I'm surprised how chill the community is about which Quadistu they find the hottest especially considering how heated they usually get over fictional women
Are we in the good timeline guys?
Game sold well but still isn't mainstream. Same reason why Christians aren't up in arms about this game.
My favorite was the witch with the parasol.
@@DragonKingX78 did we just become best friends?
@@chunkytomatosoup1826 nah I'm talking about the niche community
It's usually WW3 every re-release, and we got like 5 new waifus so I'm doubly astonished there isn't a slur in sight
Unless you're interested in replaying soon after, Canon of Vengeance should be your first playthrough, not your second.
No it should be your second, creation is easier.
No creation should be first because it explains things that aren’t mentioned in Canon of Vengence
I thought my computer was lagging until randomly hearing "omg guys they finished the game" and then i died laughing
I may be the only person that liked more the original. I prefer no story to simply bad story. Vengeance just felt so random with the plot points, they just didn't know what to convey and they lacked focus on specific topics.
Im glad everyone agrees the spike in level and damage for the final area is insane
Its not impossible but they definitely fucking hit HARD
the guest characters, at least early on, are tailored for the chapter ahead of you. Yoko is invaluable in chapter 1, and tao pulls her weight a lot in chapter 2. It's chapter 3 where the fall-off is very noticeable, and chapter 4 doesn't even have guests, but Panagia Tao was buffed by letting her stats carry over between runs, so she is an objective upgrade over Idun now
I am happy that Atlus is actually acknowledging DDS's 20th anniversary.
As a 25 year old man, I really felt represented by Yoko. I despise this current world. Still, I do my best to make the life of everyone around me a better one, cause I hope humanity gets it's grips together. But just as Nietzsche said, everything is doomed to repeat itself.
Agree because humanity by nature is stupid and selfish, that includes me since we rarely display loyalty and selflessness.
Damn you still have the edgy teenager inside of you then
@@louish5068 No. Not even close. I just hate this dumb world because it isn't making any sense.
@@NicoEntertainment just because a lot of things are bad in this world doesnt mean the whole world is dumb or doesnt make sense. There is also a lot of good in this world. And taking such a nihilist attitude to the world, that everything sucks, is just unproductive imo.
At least you say you try to make the life of others around you better. But for you to truly make a difference I believe you need to see the best in the world. Trust me I am confused by this world at times, but I still see the best in it and people and believe that in the end everything will be good, even if it isnt in my lifetime.
@@louish5068 you know that no matter how someone might wanna change this world, the efforts to do so are all for naught. Go read some Nietzsche.
The reason why Aogami/Kei's Nahobino isn't the most powerful being in the universe while you play with them - aside from story/gameplay segregation - is actually complicated.
Aogami was initially developed in 3 types - battle, logicstics and ultimate. The Aogami Types are what was left of Susano-o's essence after being slain in the Armagedon, along with the other gods and goddesses (and yes, Tao isn't some reincarnation of Amaterasu - she's also implied to have been exterminated during the war along with the myriads of Japanese gods). Tsukuyomi was only able to retrieve this type while all of the rest fell on the battlefield (as seen when you collect their skills). The ultimate type is mentioned in passing by one of the researchers, but you don't get to acquire him, unlike Tsukuyomi's ultimate incarnation (as that was left intact).
To add further info, Aogami's type you fuse with isn't fully operational until endgame - that is, until you absorb Lucifer's knowledge, which explains why you struggle all the way throughout the story. It's also worth noting that while you're being refered to as THE Nahobino by most bossess and some of the allies, Nahobino still remains a race among many others, and other human beings have the potential to turn into one and ascend the Throne at the Empyrean if they so choose. The narrative presents one of many possibilities, and it is heavily implied that because of the more than tentative plot's connection to Nocturne, all endings are in a sense canon, including your game overs (in which worlds someone else gets to become the Nahobino). This was hinted at in the 4 Horsemen DLC right back in 2021.
I think that the reason for the ambiguity in the first game was mainly about centering the narrative around the Nahobino and his reason for existence. Since Aogami/Kei are no longer focused on wordly affairs all that much - as even the etymology of the term "Nahobino" refers to correcting an anomaly of grand scale - the narration lets in and out various characters without too much emotional investment for the reason of establishing the main goal - acquire Lucifer's knowledge and eliminate the vicious cycle of the Mandala System. Everything else comes in second place, because in the grand scheme of things, the world will be re-created, and those characters will either permanently cease to exist or be reborn. That's the reason why several sub-episodes (like Sahori's, Miyazu's, etc.) are tamed within a relatively short arc for each.
Fun fact you can combine omnipotent succession with other omagatoki skills like critical,savage,adversity,charge and it’s just as broken as it sounds
3:31 devil survivor 2 didn’t have extra parts added to the main story but rather a bunch of new demons skills and quality of life improvements. The big thing they added a continuation of the game itself that you can access whenever you want from the main menu you don’t even need to have beaten the original game story to access it. However I imagine it got on some peoples nerves as the story in the continuation follows up on a specific ending effectively making it the canon ending in terms of the original story (I won’t spoil it because like devil survivor 1, devil survivor 2 is absolutely worth playing)
Though, doesn't the desu2 sequel actually branch off an ending you can't get in the original? (I always thought of it as like, Daichi restorer + Saiduq) I think it's something like that at least 😂
@@starryslight7095 I would need to look it up but last I checked there weren’t any new endings outside of the new story endings which I will remind myself can be accessed whenever anyone wants and takes place after the original story
@@espeon37 no no, not new endings! I mean, i thought the sequel wasn't based off the best ending in the first game but one you can't actually access in the og (for reasons like Saiduq being around)
I’m very much looking forward to this game, I actually got to the end of the second area… but I’ve been obsessed with Elden Ring so I’ll come back when I’ve had my fill. I really liked SMTV, I know this’ll be even better.
Great vid as always 🙌🏽
Adding on to your last statement about re-releases, PLEASE ATLUS I NEED AN RE-RELEASE ENHANCED VERSION OF SOUL HACKERS 2 I NEED MORE RINGO
I would love for them to do that if they let you have both human and demons in your party, use the press system for combat, choices matter/multiple endings, new dungeons/dungeon design overhauls, and some other improvements.
Good video, i liked the pacing, i bought smt v and smt vengeance for the hype and as a casual enjoyer I agree with your points.
So this game is basically the Pokémon Platinum of MegaTen games
My overall thoughts on the smt 5 vengeance ( spoilers):
I think the new story is probably the best story in the series since strange Journey, the qadistu are pretty good antagonists of the story, the character writing is a massive improvement over the original ( Yuzuru and tao being my favourites), yoko is a pretty good character ( I’ll talk about her later), mastema being intimidating as always, The plot is well written and thought was pretty solid, and the new endings ( I’ll talk about them)
Endings: I think tao’s ending is the best of the two since it makes the most sense, wanting to reshape the world as it was before and wanting everything to be back to normal is the most logical.
Yoko’s ending is alright to me, the issue is that her reasoning feels half baked to me. We only hear her reasoning right at the end of the game so it didn’t really click to me.
I think Koshimizu being the new proto fiend you fuse after Aogami gets sucked into Tiamat is a good change of pace since we get to know more about him, I also really like the Tsukuyomi proto fiend design personally.
Yuzuru is probably my favourite character in the vengeance route due to the events giving him his reasoning, him making a deal with Eisheth so that he could kill Kei Amemura ( the protag) so that he could save the only family member he has left, I don’t blame him for what he had to do even though he could’ve ending someone’s life in the process. His death made me very upset when Abdiel k*lled him in cold blood
I like how people acknowledge tao’s powers more often and her dialogue is better written, the issue in the canon of creation is that almost no one acknowledge tao’s power.
Shakan is a beautiful looking dungeon especially the music, the puzzles are just brutal imo.
Omnipotent succession is a really good Magatsuhi skill if you’re using the right kits for the nahobino
So I give smt 5 vengeance a 9/10 ( which is my first smt game and I already like it more than persona)
Makes me wish that Soul Hackers 2 let you have both humans and demons in your party.....and also used the press turn system.
SMTV didn’t need a redemption. It was always genuinely fantastic and one of the best entries. SmTIV was the trip up. Vengeance just helped people understand it better. I’m just happy I got more goodies to play with. SMTV Goty again 💪
I am glad it got it and I am glad they put on all systems.
I don't think V comes remotely close to being as good as IV
@@llinium Gameplay wise it blows SMTIV out of the water in everything. Balance, variety of builds, removal of smirking, demons are actually unique (not this blank slate nonsense with more hp less mp, equal mp hp, and more mp less hp), field hit boxes are fixed (smtiv’s hit boxes where all over the place), and the return of vit (no more tissues paper demons)! Gameplay wise smtiv always had flaws since day one.
Story wise SMTIV is a collection of cool ideas but the execution is messy. Highly dependent on exposition to get the story across. It’s tell don’t show. For me that was a big flaw in smtiv. While SMTV both CoC and CoV have better written stories, characters, and focus on show don’t tell. However the answers are in the game if you observe and take your time. SMTV is a beautiful game.
@@ironrex6979 This guy is so based it's unreal. I am an Ironrex fanboy
@@ironrex6979SMT V had the worst story, Megami Tensei 1 on the famicom was more deep and complex
My favorite part of Yoko's edgy writing is when they talk about cars and the deaths that their creation has caused. Takaya makes the same comment in Persona 3 Reload and this specific comment always makes me laugh my ass off.
wait i'm still confused should i be playing the vengeance route or doing both routes
So what DLC is coming out still? How much do I need to spend on DLC to get the full game?
You beat shiva at level 80?! Naw ur just built different, he beat my ass on hard mode lmao
we don't talk about what happened in shinjuku
(if you get that ref, you're a homie)
Honestly ive found this version a little harder. Maybe i got overleveled at some point in the original, because the difficulty fell off a cliff around the 3rd area. Here there was at least some challenge up until the end.
Y. Y is for Yoko and Yakumo. Thats the paths i took.
Bro forgot to mention passive skills. Some are small changes and aren’t worth mentioning but others like Nahobeehos are kinda insane
I love this game. Original SMT5 was fine but my main issue was the characters. Even in SMT1 and 2 I had more love for the characters. But in Vengeance that changed. You could really feel the friendship of all the characters and when Dazai killed Yuzuru that was the saddest moment in the game for me. Also when Mastema made Dazai a statue I was angry at that as well. Even though I knew Mastema was an asshole from Strange Journey and I was actually expecting for him to shit on us though not in such a way. Overall I love this game.
Imagine next SMT set it Canada and the final boss is Trudeau. Tony4You would *LOVE* it 😂
Pollivere is Law, Singh is Neutral, and surprise Trump is Chaos for a "USA invades Canada" ending.
MY SIDES 😂
This video is probably the most "I agree with your general overview and some points about it but I think there's a few points here or there that imo miss the forest for the trees" I've ever seen
I find a bunch of your opinions on things like the gameplay balance and the way the reused parts of the game mesh with the new content something I disagree with, but not entirely. It'd be much more productive to the discussion this brings to write my own review instead of just a comment, but regardless I found it quite interesting. No one's experience is wrong, but I think the comparison between this game's new toys and something like Theurgy to be two very different discussions.
I find it interesting that people still see that modern Atlus design philosophy in V - I certainly didn't miss it (hiiii Konohana Sakuya), but the balance is so solid that I don't necessarily dislike it. The real problem with giving new toys to the player is when they outscale the game. However, I've been doing something silly and stupid, I've been playing with a Luck build and my damage feels... Relatively normal! So maybe if I were to go all the way on a Strength or Magic build, I would feel similarly to you. Maybe that's a sign to dial back the Nahobino's ability to scale back, though that comes at the cost of narrative cohesion like you've said (which is a really good point I didn't consider myself)
I also VASTLY disagree with the assessment of Yoko and arguably cherry picking her two worst instances of her characterization lol. Also, characters are more interesting when they are flawed!! Yoko not only is flawed but brings out the flaws in our main cast, particularly Tao. Their flaws are what makes them interesting!! Yoko is single-handedly the reason why Tao isn't a Mary Sue...again. Also, she's very much an equal and opposite to Tao - they are both supposed to generally endear the protagonist to a path. I think if Yoko were any more fleshed out, she'd stand out too hard against the previous characters. Again, more constructive to make a whole character analysis than a "I disagree" comment, but details.
Good video though woohoo
Regarding the throne, u have to face lucifer regardless to reshape the world since he took it over from Marduk. He basically became smt2 yhvh in a way
Still don't like his new "power rangers" design.
@@DragonKingX78 eh i like it
Its supposed to be him ascending back to his angelic form before his fall so it makes sense his angelic form has aspects similar to metatron considering how high he used to be in the archangel hiearchy
He even calls it his true form
I thought the original was kind of meh but I'm loving Vengeance and I'm almost at the end. The changes may seem small, but overall they made an enjoyable experience that is (for me) on par with Nocturne.
I loved the addition of innate skills. Adds a lot of character-through-gameplay. Beelze getting to native double debilitate but he's sexist so no Femme/Lady/Megami (nor Herald) on the team? Forneus+Decab being true bffs? Abaddon+Loa the Mitama slaying power couple? Arahabaki being a bro and sharing his buffs with tag ins? Just oozes personality when it clicks.
Beelzebub's skill name is the one of the Devil from The Devil in Love so I guess he's being... possessive?
@@chunkytomatosoup1826 I didn't realize that was a reference to something. Fun stuff.
weird, Shakan ended up becoming my favourite Dungeon, i would normally hate Heavenly looking Dungeons too unless they were made Dark and Gritty somehow, either way the Music and Puzzles in it, can't get enough, like it even more than the Open World ones
Lmao, I was looking for this yesterday. Didn't realise it wasn't out yet
I feel really bad because I'm a diehard SMT fan myself, but I enjoyed the endings in CoC more than CoV. That's not to say I liked CoC more because I don't. Vengeance had more to do, more story beats that were great, but I think I was just missing a neutral route since the True Ending was good. I felt Yakumo got pushed to the wayside and I was concerned about that. However, CoV felt more natural with alignment (your choices influence the game instead of choosing at the end) which is an SMT staple.
tldr; 10/10 game, Beelzebub has the best battle music and I really just wanted to blow up the throne like last time.