How to Patch a Plaster and Lath Ceiling | Ask This Old House
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- Опубліковано 18 сер 2018
- Ask This Old House general contractor Tom Silva helps a homeowner repair a cracked plaster ceiling in an older home.
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Cost: $200-300
Skill Level: Moderate
Tools List for Patching a Plaster Ceiling:
Drill/Driver
Putty Knife
Mixing Paddle Bit
Hawk
Trowel
Shopping List:
Staging
Drop Cloths
1x3 strapping
3” screws
Drywall Screws
Plaster Washers
3/8” Drywall
Veneer Plaster
Joint Compound
Fiberglass Screen
Felt Pad
Steps:
1. When originally installed, wood lathe was nailed to the ceiling joists. Plaster mixed with horse hair or goat hair was then forced onto the lathe, forming a key that holds it to the lathe.
2. One option is to cut out the damaged area and install a 3⁄8” thick sheet of blue board and plaster.
3. Cover the work area with drop cloths and work off of a rolling scaffolding platform, which can be rented or purchased.
4. Use a drill/driver to secure a piece of 1x3 strapping to the structure above the ceiling. Repeat this process several times in the area of the cracks.
5. For areas where there is no structure above, attach a piece of strapping perpendicular to the others and insert filler pieces of strapping in the gaps between the strapping. Slowly tighten the perpendicular piece.
6. Use a drywall screw with a plaster washer to resecure the damaged sections of plaster to the lathe.
7. Remove the strapping.
8. For areas where the washers don’t hold or the plaster is very damaged, cut out the plaster and create a patch using drywall. Secure the patch with 1 5⁄8” drywall screws.
9. Scrape away any loose veneer.
10. Mix a batch of plaster and joint compound to ensure good adhesion.
11. Place the plaster mix on a hawk and trowel it over the damaged areas.
12. To keep the plaster from cracking and to hide the screws, set a fiberglass screen into the first coat of plaster.
13. After the first coat sets, apply a second coat, filling any voids.
14. Use a felt pad to finish the job and smooth out the ceiling.
Resources:
The ceiling washers, drywall board, plaster, joint compound, fiberglass window screen, trowel, 13x13 inch magnesium hawk, and felt pad brush can be found at home centers and hardware stores.
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Homeowners have a virtual truckload of questions for us on smaller projects, and we're ready to answer. Ask This Old House solves the steady stream of home improvement problems faced by our viewers-and we make house calls! Ask This Old House features some familiar faces from This Old House, including Kevin O'Connor, general contractor Tom Silva, plumbing and heating expert Richard Trethewey, and landscape contractor Roger Cook.
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How to Patch a Plaster and Lath Ceiling | Ask This Old House
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Legend has it that Tom Silva has never missed a joist with a screw.
x-ray vision - a human stud finder.
I'm pretty sure Tom Silva could have saved the Titanic from going down. What a master Craftsman. Thanks for another great video. You take care.
Steve Janka what a strong statement careful with words
Tom rocks
@Bob Marley Exactly
Bob Marley Why don’t you just build a new house Bob!
He'd probably sink the Titanic..
I wish to find someone like Tom Silva here in my town to repair my bedroom water damage ceiling, I called a few guys and they did not want to do the job. Tom explained it pretty good and easy than make me think that I can do that job. Thank You, Tom!
It starts on the roof shingles right above
still looking for someone
THE CATCH AT 6:45!!!! Amazing what a craftsman ive learned so much from this guy.
I had the same problem with my 1924 ceilings.....bought 4 sheets of 3/8 sheetrock, 4 tubes of liquid nails and installed right over the old plaster with long screws....no need to remove the old ceiling. It's been 15 years and no issues.
That actually worked??
@@No_bread-and-circuses i thought of that but i was thinking you would have add some Sort of packing to drop off of the plaster a Little but cool
Lately been doing some plaster ceiling repair. Searching how to videos on UA-cam this is the only one I've found that gives realistic practical advice on the subject. Tommy rules.
Everyone agrees that was a lot of work for a patch job but what I've learned thru my carpentry journey is that drywall sucks an is so fragile. Going back with plaster keeps the original historical character!
Well said!
Exactly! Not to mention, drywall doesn’t flex or breathe like lime plaster, nor can it cope with moisture. Adding drywall to a lime-plastered ceiling is just adding a weakness. It‘s worth doing things properly the first time. Just patch it with lime, the same as the original ceiling. It’s a far better material
My 1909 house was renovated in 1946 and gypsum lath was “overboarded” on the original ceiling with new 2-coat over the lath. New crown molding was installed. The house was as pretty beat up by 1985 when I bought it. With just a small amount of spot patching of the finish plaster the full 25’x 15’ living area looks perfect to this day.
Tom Silva is the man. He's the best from the East to the West!
I saw this job done on This Old House years ago. They jacked up the cracked ceiling on boards, and poured plaster of paris onto the ceiling from above. Worked far better than screws. :)
That’s a traditional method - and a far better one.
As my home is 120 yrs old, I've done this type of repair to our horsehair plaster ceiling and walls. I've used both ways:
1. As Tom just did by knocking out/removing loose plaster, down to the lath, filling with drywall patch then adding/building multiple coats of mud/plaster and sanding (but WITH assistance from a spotlight/worklight to correct blemishes/unevenness and or waving).
2nd Option: Cover entire ceiling with 3/8" drywall, leaving original lathe/plaster in place and sheeting over it.
Each of these methods have their merits.
Entire ceiling: FULL 4'x8' or 4'x12' foot sheets of drywall are very heavy and need not only knowhow and some strength in handling (you'll need some tricks for cutting/hanging angles and practice not breaking the paper or you'll have something close to swiss cheese). Adding thickness to your ceilings will cause light fixtures to be modified slightly/longer downrods or screws to reattach. Removing original mouldings can be tricky since older wood can be brittle and break apart while gingerly removing.
If you're only interested in repairing an area a few feet in diameter, (speaking from experience as a female DIY homeowner).
I'd definitely do Tom's type of repair as he shows here. The only thing I would add, IF you're picky... after your plaster/drywall mud has dried and sanded, blow the dust away and use a work light at an angle to see imperfections from different views, that way you can see and correct any serious imperfections (bubble holes/waves/streak/runs/scratches/etc) BEFORE paint is applied. While paint can help hide some very minor things - it's *wise to fill/sand/fix/even out that spot now, so it won't stare right at you every time you enter the room or turn on the light ... lol
Very help Full detailed Advice. Really Thank You. Now to work on my 100+ year old house.
Thank you SO much - my home is 1924 and I will be doing this to my sunken living room ceiling - specific area that needs this desperately- have been looking a long time on how to fix this myself - already did a 4 ft by 4 ft in my dining room but this video is exactly what I needed because it’s sunken in the living room and an eye sore for too long
Thanks for this video! Just bought a 1928 house and noticed a few cracks that I will have to repair in the plaster ceiling. This made it way more approachable.
wow, thats one of those jobs that I would avoid like the plague if it were my house. I wouldve totally installed new drywall but that was definitely an educational video for me. Never seen that method of repair before. Tom is a true inspiration.
As per the other comments there is more than one method to make this repair. Some should keep in mind the show has an objective, in this episode to make a repair not replace the entire ceiling. Oh, and I have many customers who won't consider replacing plaster with drywall. One thing I would have liked to know is, what's above it? Is it a bathroom? Playroom? Any special reason this ceiling is dropping and not the others? If there's some problem above and it's not addressed the damage will continue. Or it may just be old and coming loose.
I swear they need to canonize Tom Silva. He has saved me so many times, it's got to count as a miracle!
This video Saved me. Because I have a old house with the same type of ceiling, and there’s cracks everywhere. Just didn’t know how to fix it. Until now! Thanks Tom!
Do not try this at home!!
Don't think I've ever seen Tom smile like that. lol
Real plaster is not easy. I am impressed, Tommy-boy is very well rounded.
I never saw Tommy smile so much.
It was the sexual tension between them.
Owner is gorgeous Tommie loved working for her
Lathe. Interesting tool, where the work is moved,
and a fixed cutter works on it.
Lath, long thin strip of wood, similar to a yardstick,
which is used to make a lath and plaster wall.
steve
love this old house learned so much from this show
Mr. Silva is the man! That's one nice plaster job.
You are trippin' Big Dude
As an old maintenance guy , I would many times use some kind of adhesive and drywall screws countersunk with a utility knife to secure the loose plaster. No scaffold and whole room drop cloth needed. Set the screws by hand to control cracking.
0:47 Alot of those activities around here....lemme guess. The master bedroom is directly above this plaster.
Well they have kids so I doubt the master bedroom gets much action other than sleep.
Well Tommy's instant smiling reaction presumes the bedroom hipothesis... :)
The upward shining chandelier in the room is accentuating the other roof imperfections, and this repair that will inevitably come back in smaller form, because of how the light casts shadows from certain angles. Switching light fixtures to a more down throw would definitely help.
Another successful job well done with the homeowner standing around
😂
My old house is 100 yrs old and in SoCal you be rest assured of some heavy seismic shaken going on a few times a year and all my patches on the ceiling lasted for a few years but time would bring it down and it always got bigger. So now, Demo and put back up drywall.
Nicely done Tom.👍🏻 Those plaster washers really do work. I always prime plaster repairs before I mud and after with PlasterWeld primer for maximum adhesion, Take care, -Paul
Obviously another joker with no clue about sound plaster repair.
-Demo all of the unsound plaster
-Either repair the wood lath, reinforce it with an expanded metal lath overlay, or replace e it with metal lath.
-Clean then bond all mating surfaces with plasterweld or a similar bonding agent.
-Re-plaster the repair area with a basecoat such as structolite in two coats (scratch and brown) making sure you cut back the patch approx 1/8" for finish.
-Finish with a gypsum based lime plaster such as Diamond or Imperial troweled smooth and flush to the existing surface.
Honestly Tom have a professional plasterer show you how it's done.
Do you use the mesh, or not necessary with your method?
Watch Kirk Giordano plastering; he shows the best way to do this. Remove the old sagging area by scoring around it and taking it down, then treating the lath with a bonding agent before spreading new plaster. More work (maybe) but a great job.
you are a craftsman and an artist all in one thnx for the video
I have to agree while it was a great job Tommy, and what you did was save the existing ceiling, but my thought of it being messier to replace the area with sheet rock, it would have been a lot less work and would have saved time in the long run. Just an opinion. Tommy is one of kind that is for sure.. Thanks for another great video.
This was surgical in his approach. Great job. 👍
Wow... my house was built in 1880... the ceiling was , by the looks of it, installed in 1825,, lol
There is Hope , thanks to this video...
Gee Mr editor, way to cut out the results.
Joseph1NJ really, that basecoat was caca. I would have marked out a much larger area with pencil, run plaster washers all around the perimeter of the drawn lines to stabilize the plaster that would stay, cut out the damaged plaster and replace with a sheet of drywall.
This used to be a longer video, but they have really cut down these videos to 10 mins or less.
It looks fantast...and it's gone.
Tom makes the job look easy. Great job Tom!
Thank you for posting this. !! Very helpful !
I have used bags and bags of plaster washers fixing old walls in Toronto. Drywall screws finish proud of the washer making the skim coats needlessly thick. I use trim screws and Tom should too.
What a gorgeous house
Tom's craftsmanship is second to none. But it's pretty clear that tearing down all the plaster and putting up sheetrock would have been the long-term better move.
More expensive, too.
*Reduce, Reuse, Recycle*
@@stevenm4117 Maybe? but each time you do a fix on it it will be cheaper down the road. I got lathe & plaster under an old claw foot tub. I've had plumbing issues a number of times so the plaster needed repairing. Plaster repair is way more expensive than drywall repair... it adds up, I wish I just ripped it out.
In reality, a sheetrock repair is sub-standard repair work. Tear off the unsound plaster and redo the 3-coat plaster.
@Bob Marley that's the problem, I'd need a good plasterer, like yourself! Not a mediocre drywall patcher, like MYSELF.
Just overboard the lot, once one part starts to drop it won't be long till the rest starts. could end up with the lot falling down.
Easy for you Rockefeller!
ROB-IN-PHILLY Naw. One total ceiling drywall hang and paint is going to be cheaper than three or four or five of these prep-patch-sand-paint sessions.
You still have to fix everything that's falling down already before drywalling over it, then on a case-by-case basis you'd have to put some crown back where crown was before. If there's waffled ceilings or anything nice like that there's more of an incentive to try to save the plaster.
I agree...and you could always drywall right over top of the ceiling
@@Nill757 but some people want to save the plaster. Unfortunately, Tom is making a mess of this and is out of his league.
Mate, this is brilliant! Thanks so much
5:34 "nice, nice, nice, nice" 👍👍👍
Tom had upper viewpoint to Jessica cleavage.
Love the video but wouldn’t mind seeing more of the work!
Thank you for this amazing content. I've learned so much.
everyone needs to be like that guy
My house built in 1910 has these ceilings in all rooms. I had some similar damage in 1 room and decided to pull them all down. Remove the lath, insulate the joists and drywall. It was a lot of work but I couldn't be happier with the results as I know that there is no chance of issues now.
You did the right thing removing the wood lath prior to drywall installation. Drywall over wood lath loosens too often and the screws pop through. Being a plasterer of course enables me to make it happen with plaster which keeps the integrity of the house and maintains a better product and greater value.
@@hornkie good to know. Some of my 1925 overboarded plaster ceiling came down and I could patch…but looking at the cracks in the rest of it…and the fact that I’d be over boarding on overboarding, I’d rather take it all down and plasterboard/drywall on the joists, rather than the dodgy laths..even if everyone says it’s hideously messy. From what I can tell less chance of asbestos in the UK any rate .
Tom is a lot of things, but a hawk and trowel man, he is not!!!! Keep the videos coming!!!!
Yep….They should have had a pro at least consulting on this one.
Seemed overwhelming at first, but I think I could do this!
Thanks for helping my old house.
This plaster is dry and it's very messy and create a lot of dust. But we can open the plaster bag inside the house and mix it with a mixer to prepare the plaster. No dust and job done 👍
I would take that whole section out.
I cant believe that ceiling was salvageable, great work Tom
I can't understand why you would try?
Tom plastered it good she was well impressed I’m sure . He’s the man lol 😜
I have water damage on mine at a section. Im going to try securing it from the attic. Then fancy ceiling tile the room and cover up the screws ect repair.
The entire time I was watching the video, I just kept thinking, "I can't wait to read the UA-cam comments on this." 😂
But I tell myself that these nice people, who are really doing the Lord's work for people like me who don't know much about these processes and want to learn, that they do some of these not to be absolutely efficient, but to also show the wide variety of available solutions to problems, for educational purposes.
The end result was also very nice. I was a pleasantly surprised. I thought it would be a little warped and close to what it looked like in the beginning.
Great work.
I am only surprised by the lack of eye protection. But I did learn a lot !
One of the many, many reasons I urge folks to buy as new as a home as possible as they can afford. The older the home the more problems it will have.
Home improvement, not home perfection. My motto. It’s not perfect but it’s way better than it was!
Questioning anything Tom does is a risk, because it could make me look like a fool.But Tom initially rejected the idea of going for a dry wall patch because it could be messy...and then right after, he covered half the room and floor with protection because fixing the lathe 'could be messy'.Seems like removing it all and going with a dry wall would have been a more durable and better idea.
Yes, but it's a different level of messy :) You wouldn't be able to get away with covering the room with a dust sheet when taking down an old lath ceiling. Everything has to go. Also, you need better protection. At least a good mask. I recently did that to our ceilings (late 30s).
comes down to time and money, it took less time and money to patch the plaster rather than replace the whole cieling
Replacing a section would have been better long term. This was a band aid fix. Eventually that whole ceiling is going to need redone, and what he just fixed would have to be replaced anyway.
@@jasonsgroovemachine Exactly. Its gonna just keep doing it. Sheetrock the whole ceiling and just get it over with then Johnny can jump all he wants in his bedroom above.
Additional: I had an older house like this built in 1923, the ceilings were still in good shape; I took down the moldings refinished them put 1/4 inch Gypsum up, finished with moldings, beautiful and long lasting. I can somewhat understand if you need/want to be as original as possible. I worked with a man that did this his whole life; in 1975 I was 15 and he was 80; he was as good at 80 as he was young. I was shown many trades by my father through connections and this was one of them. Serious credit to anyone that did this type of work 1700 through 1900 something.
This is a big issue in West Yorkshire, UK. I removed all my hallway....worst experience of my life. If you can repair or overboard do it. Otherwise get a duct and extractor system and get it all out.
Thank you.
Very nice work.
That is a lot of work!
This is exactly what I need
Great job. Seems like a lot of work even being the easier of the two options (repair or replace with drywall).
This is fantastic.........
Lolol the guys face after the first lot of screws failed is priceless lolol
Fantastic!
Tommy is a true master craftsman
Nice demonstration on how to repair but if it was my house, I probably would have ripped it all out and drywalled it. Probably will crack again somewhere else
You're probably right but then you'd never see Jessica again :)
It create lot of dust
Typically when run into these issues we just end up doing a go over with 3/8 board and plaster. This seemed like such a large are to try patching. Also if its this bad in 2 areas the rest isnt far behind so not worth saving as its coming down anyway in the near future. The reason we often do go over is because of the mess created by horse hair. Also by doing go over you will have a nice new ceiling in 3 hours time. The only issue is molding. Sometimes it can be taken down first but if not you may loose a little of the reveal.
@@dmontes81 do you remove the plaster and lath before putting up new drywall?
@@weemeemoo no we go right over it with 3/8 blueboard most of the time
Beautiful
New drywall and pot lights. This patch system he is trying to do is for small areas. As we saw he replaced most of the plaster anyway.
You make it Looks so easy . Wish I could do it myself.
You can !! Don't sell yourself short
Have you always wanted a hair cut like toms! Check out tjs barbershop in Wilmington Massachusetts! Maybe one day you will see Tom getting his haircut great barbers and great prices! Highly recommended!
Well that's one option. I think this might be the first time I have to disagree it is the best option. I'd be much more inclined to remove the bits where the keys had failed and reapply plaster creating new keys and a new surface. I've seen it done first hand and it is quicker by far and the result was amazing. The mesh idea though is gold. If that spot is prone to cracking the mesh should provide a really durable stable surface.
couldn't it have asbestos in it?
@@denisecors7918 If a house was built before 1980 it likely has asbestos.
A different way to do it. But the end result looks great.
Can you make a video on How to Repair Water Damaged Plaster
Thanks
excelent job wow . Peru
Man, I wish I looked like Jessica, I could use some Tom help on my dining room ceiling
3:04 *nervous laughter "lookin good!"
That drop catch around 6:50. pro status
Отлично. Молодцы!!!
All right jessicer were all cleaned up what do you think- tom silva 2018
Great video - how to you locate the structure for fixings please?
Ceiling looks great and Jessica looks beautiful.
Wow I would love to learn to do that I need those washers they show them at the home depot web page but I never see them in the store.
Found mine at Lowes.
That is good work but me myself and I would have taken it down and used drywall.
I know there saving time and money, but I agree with you.
Pretty sure patching it saves money, it also saves any historical value to the plaster.
Yes, because we all know how plain white plaster ceilings are renowned for their historic value...
Curiosity I agree I would have just spent the money now and just replaced it all with drywall. We all know that down the road she will just be patching the crap out of that ceiling every time another spot comes loose, and that can run into allot of time and money itself.
Altenarian no and no. Might save a little in the short run but eventually the rest of the ceiling will fail too as well as the repair. So now you've paid for a repair and you'll end having to pay to do it right again. Costing more. Also no one gives af about "historical value" of a plaster ceiling lmao
i have a Victorian home and livingroom had the same issue. It was cheaper to put in a tin ceiling where I did a faux finish.
hes good!
I live in philly, I've been doing these kinds of repairs for decades...If its sagged down like that first part...Rip it out to the lathe, put in 3/8's rock like a blow out patch; where you over cut the sheet, then back cut off the extra and peel it from the rock leaving the paper...Put as many screws to get it to bite...Mud the shit out of it...Use 15 or 20 min powder to multi coat it same day...To make it look right requires a minimum of 3 coats...I often do 5 or 6 and with one sanding between...paint the whole ceiling with sherwin Williams 200...Badda bing badda boom...:)...Payed...
thank you i was looking for info like this im in the attic and its falling in ugh scary to think about
Is it easier to just install new drywall?
@@briancurtain5573 Yeah, sure...It is; Rockefeller! Maybe your butler will mud it in! :)... JK...Sometimes that's the right way...If it's more than half the ceiling, tear it out...
Quick ? I'm working on old house, about to install canned lights. Sounds I skim coat cieling, or make holes for lights?
It does look great though.
My concern with these old homes is that Asbestos was commonly used in the skim coatings and I rarely see TOD talk about it. My 1941 home has asbestos in the skim coated walls 😕
Home owner is cute as hell
Her bed is right above this part of ceiling
@@civi3653 saying she is a freak! Or her husband is a cow?
A lath is a wood slat, a lathe is a machine for turning wood or metal.
only wood or metal? you are limiting yourself, my dude.
How did he concentrate. WOW
Friendly tip before painting a plaster ceiling it normally contains calcimine in the old plaster! You need to prime this with an oil primer or Bin. Then you can top coat with a 100% Latex Kitchen and Bath paint! Cheers!
It's a plastered cieling, should I skim first, or cut holes for canned lights?