Agree with asmon, we don't really treat celebrities like people, there's no way we'll treat streamers as people, they are basically internet celebrities anyway.
@DeathNikki This is almost exactly how most streamers view their audience though. Faceless cash registers. Most of these streamers have thousands of viewers, whom they know almost none of them, and interact with them minimally.
I thought quite a bit on this but yeah, as soon as you are a celebrity, you lose the right to complain about this(the sexualizing of their person) imo. Even if there is no deepfake, as another female streamer said there is some dude jerking off to female celebs' necks. Deepfake should probably be classed as parody, a convincing parody but parody none the less. But it becomes a problem when deepfakes show people doing crimes, so I think before it gets to that, it should be banned. Not even allowed to be consented.
In response to not "sexualizing people without their consent", this treads into thoughtcrime. I should be able to imagine whoever I want however I want--we all know no one is going around asking women "do you mind if I fantasize about you". This "sexualizing people without their consent" seems to only be a problem when someone's imagination can be easily made manifest and shared with others. If these women want anyone to actually give a fuck, they should approach it from the very legitimate "profiting on my likeness without permission" angle, which I would assume is backed by the right to legal ownership of one's personal likeness, rather than some half-baked appeal to morals which would, on the face of it, advocate for censoring one's own thoughts from oneself.
What makes streamers different than Actors in terms of hate and mental health is that your fans have 100% access to you and you interact with them on a daily basis throughout your work hours non stop. actors get critics and reviews and stuff but most time never interact with them.
@@JohnDoe-tj8rq yeahh it's gotta take it's toll tbh, everyone thinks its a dream job ( and its a pretty dope one dont get me wrong ) but its not all rainbows, look at nikocado for example, that whole trainwreck is such a messy situation
Ya but if he isn't selling the videos nothing you can do. Like I could make a t shirt of your face but if I'm not selling them you can't really do anything.
@Shylogik if they pay for the service to make it, they aren't buying the art, just funding the site. So, even in this instance, it was buying and selling it would be one quick tweak to make it fully legal
For real. The people who can defend these actions are people who are ok with - and have probably already considered/committed - r@pe. Plain and simple. That shouldn't shock anyone, considering how often that crime is committed
I agree with like 99% of what is being said here, but there is just this one part of the debate that I really dislike. And its the whole mentality behind how men can't be sexualized. Like Ludwigs take about "If a mans balls get leaked its cool, while if a womens breasts gets leaked a bunch of *men* jack off" Like, excuse me? Do women not jack off, have gay people left the planet? Sure balls are not the most attractive part of the body, but either way, someone is going to. Didn't Ludwig have his balls leaked and a bunch of people sexualized it? If a part of a persons body gets leaked out there, or deepfaked against their consent its messed up. It doesn't matter what gender, and to me it doesn't matter that it happens mostly to women, the key thing is that it happens. And I think excluding men from the topic as a whole is really not ok. This whole "Its mostly men that are the perpetrator" and "It's mostly woman that are the victims" mentality needs to end. In the end of it, its humans being hurt by humans. The gender does not matter, and making it matter does 3 things: 1; As Asmon says it dehumanizes people. All of a sudden you're no longer a person, you're a man, and a man is X, Y and Z which are all bad and you should feel bad for that ( using man in this example as its the one being used in the topic ) This is why you see people react with "Not all men" People are hurt when you say that its "mostly men" People are vulnerable, and that turns into defence, anger, sadness. And is that okay? 2; It excludes people from being a victims, all of a sudden you're not supposed to feel bad for having your body part leaked, because when men get their balls leaked its "cool" 3; It excludes people from being perpetrators, oh a woman would never jack off to someones leaked breasts, woman are too pure for that. ( Again, using woman as the example here because of the topic ) I write this because I personally feel the hurt that comes with a topic like this, the hurt that supposedly my gender is bad because, well its mostly men is it not? Instead of its always bad people. And that hurt turns into, anger, anger I try hard not to act on. But in the end it mostly just turns to dissociation. Not wanting to be part of the topic, caring neither for the people hurting or those hurt, because it just makes me feel like shit. So why bother? This is why I think it' so important to not specify a group of people as perpetrators, because there will always be someone i that group that gets pushed away, or even worse, pushed into becoming a perpetrator. The way we phrase things, matter. To wrap up, I want to say that I'm truly sorry to everyone who has gotten a picture of them leaked, photoshopped, deepfaked, you name it. Your pain, anger, sadness, frustration, dysmorphia is valid. This is not something you should have to worry about, and I'm sorry that you've had to go through that. I wish you nothing but the best, and hope you're able to feel safe, take care of yourself.
I hate how streamers and the twitch community act suprised about this stuff, realistically their all doing weird shit that most people would wince at. Everytime someone gets exposed everyone just points a finger and makes content out of it.
@40:33 is kinda where I broke out of Asmon's influence lmfao. I respect the dude as a gamer, but what a terrible take on piracy. You absolutely can take a moral standpoint on piracy. Netflix movies and shows for example. Netflix's subscription has more than doubled in price since 2013, and the reality privileged people like Asmon seem to have forgotten in their come-ups is that most people are poor, and can hardly afford to live. To the majority of people viewing a stream, for example, being hit with 3 back-to-back-to-back one minute ads is enough to lose their attention, but they can't afford a sub, and gifts aren't guaranteed.
I think people don't even think about how far deep fakes can be taken and how much damage they can cause. Imagine deep faking someone saying or doing something that is incredibly damaging or even incriminating and what that could cause.
I feel like it would cause the opposite of what people think. I feel like rather than convict innocent people they'd haft to accept that video evidence is no longer viable since you can fake it
@Donut of Doom you do realize you have to prove that in court right.... as soon as they use ai footage as "proof" they get locked up for a false rape accusation....
The fact that people were bugging Ludwig to make a comment on the whole situation when his girlfriend was one of the people involved is just sad. Sure he could have made a full on rage video when he was in a bad head space but he prioritised comforting the person close to him when they needed it which was the most important thing to him at the time. Obviously I don't know QT personally but from what I've seen of her I'm sure she wouldn't have wanted him to go in guns blazing either. His entire response was measured and focused on the important thing instead of making it all about his personal feelings.
This is why I always listen to Asmon’s takes, I don’t always agree with him, but he doesn’t entertain those who only with to spark arguments. Rather, he asks how you would change or fix the issue, not bicker like children on twitter whilst pointing fingers at each other.
Comparing to photoshop is much more realistic than drawing. Photoshopping celebrities onto bodies has been happening for 30 years. Atrioc said that it wasn't any of the people he knew personally, so to him the streamers might as well be famous people he doesn't know. No one has ever cared about Anya Taylor Joy getting her face photoshopped onto naked pictures. Also, everyone is talking about "girls should be allowed to consent" and Atrioc in the same conversation, which frankly, are 2 completely different conversations. Anyone can touch themselves to just real pictures or videos of their friends, that doesn't require consent lol.
@@alocalstalker3231 It doesn't matter, he's right. All the arguments against deepfakes have been levied against photoshop and the world didn't outlaw photoshop, the reason this is a big deal is because people who aren't used to being targeted are now realizing how easy it is to be a target and are making a big stink about it. You pay for your fame with your anonymity
@alocalstalker3231 I'm not justifying deep faking anyone. I am however confused on what, other than paging 15 dollars for p, should Atrioc be CANCELED for. He's not the one profiting from it or making it.
I think what gets me is like, iv never heard any of these people talk about it before. Even though it's been a thing for almost a decade. But now I'm being told I gotta care about it, nahh. You only care cause it happen to you and your friends, they wouldn't care if it happen to me or my friends.
Yeah. Its like UBER Eats and stuff. U dont list on their websides but they act like u do and order at your restaurant still and del7ver it. All without your concent... Its nothing new...
I mean, you can't just slide the double standard aside here. If this were a girl who got caught looking at deepfakes of male streamers, would we be here talking about it at all? Or would it just be a "Oh hahah" moment as usual?
The most insane things that I hear around this conversations isn't the actual AI but the implications of the consequences around it for the people who has their identity taken. That the creation of these videos, especially without their consent, can cause them to lose job opportunities, that people send them the videos asking the creators if it is them, or that they can be extorted with these videos by that people send it to their friends and families.
The rhetoric around "Not all men... But always a man" is pretty unfair and what it does is that it further antagonizes men. Not doubt that it was 90-10 m/f but like as a man who doesnt engage in this kind of degeneracy I feel like I am being looped into it. All it does is that it makes people want to disagree with you or it makes them not want to engage with your debate at all.
@RivailleRavioli it's mostly men, but it's not most men. Most child murder is committed by women, but most women don't murder kids, so no one says all women are child murders. So I would say your sexism is showing.
@@FirstYokai Someone gave the harry styles situation. Deep fake that was shared and giddy about. How much Henry Cavill and other male actors are sexualised, especially when some of them are obviously not comfortable with it. The selling of it might be male-focused, but the fantasy and behaviour are not.
It’s that kind of rhetoric which is why the red pill content got so popular. Turns out, demonizing an entire gender and telling them they’re awful bc of their immutable characteristics is actually a bad thing to do
The really sad thing is that the same thing has been actually happening forever, the only difference now is that instead of unrealistic 3d models we now have the most real-looking ai-generated fakes ever, and it's only going to get easier to create them as technology advances... it is unstoppable as it has always been and it will only get worse, and it's scary to think about, but sadly I don't think there's any solution to this and the only thing we can do is (as I think for most of the toxic topics on the internet) try to reduce the future consumers by educating children at home and at school while trying to stimulate their empathy and make them understand how horrible it is, as unrealistic as that sounds.
I think Ludwig makes a stupid argument when he says "Well, only men were involved in the creation of this site so somehow it's okay to generalize men's behaviour and call all of them pigs". Yeah, they were female streamers, of course the majority of people involved in making nudes of them would be men. If you got into some weird K-Pop community, you would probably find a majority of women sexualizing the male singers (and a majority of men sexualizing the female singers), yet it wouldn't be fair labelling them all as evil just because of a group of weirdos.
He's saying that maybe it isn't all men that do these things; but conveniently it has been men exclusively that do all these things. And, oddly enough, only men that have been defending Atrioc.
@@TwilightWolf285 Maybe men wouldn't jump to his side if the victims didn't react by lumping every men together with who should be accountable for it. It's was a knee-jerk reaction by the victims side, considering the situation, but it's inflamatory, as you can see. Now everyone that's vocal about not wanting to be called perverts because of criminals is considered to be defending Atrioc.
He never said that though? His specific quote was "Not all men, but somehow always men" That last part doesn't cancel out the first. He doesn't describe this as an issue with all men being pigs. Also I get that this is the internet so it can be hard to truly measure scope, but if you really think that the problem of women sexualizing men without their consent in "some weird K=pop communities" out there somewhere that neither of us have seen or can name without digging for it is equivalent to the problem of men sexualizing women, which we see examples of every single day both in real life as well as online discourse like this, then you're simply not critically thinking about the issue or just don't care about it. Like... he even says that this is a *disproportionately* male problem. I don't know why some people feel so defensive over that conversation. I'm a man too and none of these arguments have ever made me feel like I'm being judged as a pervert or a pig, because I'm aware that I don't engage in the behavior being talked about.
@@sere971 Because it's always women crying about this. Yeah, if you shine the light on one side of course that's all you're gonna see. Because guess what? Generally, guys don't care. It's not hard to understand. Ludwig is just being sexist.
tbh people can do it with or without AI all they need is a clip or screencapture and theyre good, there is nothing that can interrupt someones will to do it if they want to and just because someone knows that they did that doest make it worse. I know most people are better of not knowing that thats happening behind the scenes and when reality hits its hard but thats unfortunately life
@@SoverineSR it's not like you share your fantasies with the world when you fap tho, isn't that obviously the big difference and problem? of course everyone knows everyone sexualizes to some degree, the problem is in making it public and in explicit content format
I hate how people equate shit like rape or human trafficking to fake nudes. It's not even comparable. AIso, fake nudes are obviously fake and until the tech gets to the point where you legitimately can't tell if it's actually the person or not I don't care. It IS parody, and you won't convince me otherwise. I feel like everyone is trying to fucking gaslight me and each other on this "issue". It's not an issue, yet.
I think it makes it easier to think of it like this: 1. All vice should be removed by the state 2. Porn is a vice. THEREFORE. 3. the state should remove porn. Whether it is effective or not does not matter - the syllogism stands and thus the moral obligation. I wonder if this reasoning is appealing to you? To put it in moralistic terms to make the syllogism even easier to follow: 1. All evil should be removed by the state 2. Porn is evil THEREFORE 3. Porn should be removed by the state You could distinguish premise 1. - opposition that would cause more evil, I deny (that the state should remove in such a case) - opposition where more good occurs (less evil), I concede (that the state should remove in such a case)
I'm not defending it but all I'm saying is that this has been happening to celebrities for years and now all of a sudden people want to talk about it as soon as it happens to streamers
Its nuts how the conversation went from deep fakes to the argument of the universe and what is and what isn't lol. I feel bad for all the super High people watching this and freaking out.
The argument about parody laws is really good. If it's being sold as deep fakes and not advertised as the real thing then how is it any different from fan art and so on? If there are any laws put in place for this it will be about false advertisement and fraud, not people's privacy or dignity on the internet. Maybe there is an argument to be made about people's faces becoming their intellectual property from now. Kind of like tattoos. A difficult thing to traverse through. Do we copyright voices too? Bodyshape? What about identical twins? Sucks, but what's the 34th rule of the internet?
The big problem is that people can put a disclaimer saying it isn't fake on the website that they sell it, but once it spreads into the internet, the disclaimer doesn't go along with it. So when it reaches someone's family and friends, it creates such a horrible situation and for what? Just so some dickhead can profit? At the end of the day, it is much easier to convince someone to believe a lie than it is to convince them to believe they were lied to. No matter how someone tries, they are not going to be able to tell everyone that those pictures/videos were deepfaked. Especially with the technology getting as good as it is getting. It is putting complete strangers into a horrible position for personal gain. It is sickeningly selfish. Personally, I find it to be indefensible from any kind of moral standpoint.
That's tough to say tbh, but i'm pretty sure that even if it's fan art the creators can stop what you doing it because they own the right too the character. Now how would this translate to actual people i have no idea.
@@freedomextremist7215 "This has been estabilished law forever" Law changes all the time buddy, especially since as the context of the world changes. How can you regulate a technology with a law that was created before that technology was even conceptualized? Laws aren't written in stone. Laws have always changed. Guidelines are updated. Regulations adapt.
@@naosou921 Legally, the culpability would then be on whoever was spreading the videos and claiming they were real, not the original creator. In a world (like the one we have now) where celebreties are being deepfaked all the time, it should be easy enough for someone to say "that's not real, it's deepfaked" and move on. Does anyone really believe Pokimane had a train ran on her by the men from blacked?
I think the best way to handle a situation like this in regards to deepfakes, is to reduce presence of deepfake sites to the degree in wich a person would have to use a vpn, go through certain network tunneling, and generally do a bunch of stuff to gain access. You can not really eliminate this issue, but making it harder to have such ease of access to content like this to the point it is more of a hassle to get to is the next best thing.
13:26 Hell, probably most of the audience is but some aren't like this. I wish you a happy and great life asmon. You're not just a dancing monkey. I think you're an extremely authentic person and that deserves a lot of respect. Ofc people wish to be in the same position to be famous and earn a lot but I think it's possible to be jealous AND grateful for what the other person has at the same time. Like one wants what another has but this person is still happy about the other person having these things. I think you have a great attitude towards things, cause I think the ways you're thinking will keep you sane in this hateful world, so keep it up buddy c:
11:37 this argument usually comes after a man tells a woman to get over it bc they don't care/wouldn't care in the same position. i mean destiny goes on and on about how he doesn't give a fuck about his nudes being out there, the fact that ppl make deepfakes of him, but still thinks he has the right to judge someone's reaction to having their own deepfakes? its only a man vs woman thing because so many men act like it's not an issue in the first place.
@@lazygamer4746 i think moistcritikal's video was great on this bc he touches on both genders. i feel like its definitely possible for men to feel bothered by this, but bc they know their peers will tell them to just get over, they just suck it up. but i think a lot of men also don't care unless they get deepfaked with a small penis or put in a submissive role. its actually similar to the way fangirls write extremely inappropriate fanfics about their fave youtubers. i remember jacksepticeye saying how much it bothered him that these weirdos were making him do things with his bestfriend but no one cared.
@@null6955 I think this highlights a big difference between the sexes. Men and women are just different, and we may not ever be able to truly understand each other. You can empathize sure, but I will never truly understand how a woman feels about being looked at like a piece of meat, because I want people to look at me that way. I want to be sexualized, many many men want to be sexualized. We would love for women to cat call us, we would love to know women masturbate to us.
@@lazygamer4746 that's fair. i think some women are also like that as well, but probably not as much as men. i feel like if there wasn't so much social baggage attached to women being sexualized, it might be a bit more even. that's probably the big difference, women don't mind being sexualized, but if they're only seen like a piece of meat, that's when it gets bad because despite all the work they've done all ppl see is their body or face. qt talked about the deepfakes triggering her body dysmorphia and i think this might be something men deal with too. like how women get put on thinner bodies and men get put on taller or more ripped bodies.
Still cant believe what has happened. I never expected Big A to fall from grace like this. I think that everyone will get over the whole situation eventually. I hope he is in good spirits when he comes back. Much love to everyone.
dont get me wrong, its bad. but the way people are acting sounds more like he intentionally leaked an ex-gfs nudes for revenge or something, rather than what it was. im sure he'll be back if he wants to come back.
@@auscaliber1 the way people are acting? The fuck does other people's actions or opinions have to do with what his real intentions were? That's a very bold claim to be making and I have never even seen atrioc nor do I like him since this is the first I've actually seen of him so I'm not on his side or anything. That's just a really bad accusation to make. Thats MUCH worse than watching deep fake porn. To assume someone is THAT scummy because of having a certain website open is totally wrong.
It's actually funny now how ppl were freaking out after poki mentioned legislation, like she was trying to go after ppl who don't like her 1984 style. It's about porn guys, it was always about ppl making and using porn in illicit nefarious ways.
"can't stop people for making it" is not a good reason not to make laws around it tbh, it'll definitely reduce it and make people think twice before engaging
@@donut_42 sure but this means at least there is at least one less service for it out there. Lots of people still pirate music but it would be way more if it was legal don't you think? Laws work
I don't think anyone is saying that laws shouldn't be made against it. We are just saying that content like that is inevitable, and even if it is reduced, it won't be stopped, which you kinda stated in your comment anyway.
small point about the schroedingers cat thing: the concept is that some things are and aren't at the same time, not neither. so being and not being are the only two states.
The sad reality is that the cat is out of the bag. You can limit access by making it harder to get to it but you will never be able to stop it. You can't criminalize usage but you can go after creators within reason.
If they ban the sites they'll just start selling the neural network that generates the videos. Once the model has been trained, you no longer need the training data. People could keep copies of this on a tiny flash drive
The drawing comment is what I was thinking, but Asmon took it the wrong way. This is AI generated and is currently labeled as art, so it falls in the same category as drawings of people. Meaning it would be difficult to stop this legally.
His response about impersonation would make more sense if someone tried to pass these off as real or tried to use deepfakes to scam people. He himself has uploaded a video where he laughed at an AI copy of him that someone made. Granted, that wasn't adult content, but my point is that deepfakes aren't inherently illegal as long as nobody tries to pass them off as real or uses them to scam people.
While I feel for the violation these people feel, to compare it to rape is absolutely nuts. There is zero physical trauma or threat to the victim. It's making people uncomfortable. It's creepy and weird, but it's not even worthy of being a crime imo. If an artist drew a picture of Pokimane naked, it wouldn't have this effect, so AI generated art shouldn't either.
this is just a shift in weirdness. think about it. how many girls who make onlyfans really enjoy the idea that guys buy their content to wack off to? girls only care that they are making money from it as they should. that's their end goal. but deep down those same women think its probably pathetic that guys pay for their shit. like get a gf dude, kinda logic. so this deep fake stuff is just a shift passed inceldom into something far less controlled and a lot more volatile. so it freaks those girls out as it should. it's not normal. if the Streisand effect really pushes this technology into the forefront of poxn entertainment, there might be some pushback at first but if there's a way for people to monetize it, you know, take advantage of this system that takes advantage of them to make a profit off it, then it'll be normalized as a new product of sad incel behavior; the bar lowered even further. look at code miko, she was one of the first to invest serious money into that V-tuber crap. it paid off is it was fairly new stuff that she got in early. the same thing could happen with this deepfake crap just in a more taboo way. i'm not for that shit at all. i'm just calling it like it is. based off of what has happened in the past. when people cannot kill the beast, it eventually turns into a lucrative form of entertainment, irrespective of how disgusting it is.
If the standard is not "sexualizing people without their consent", that's an impossible standard. I hate that phrase, we need to stop using it. It's logically deficient, and falls apart with the smallest amount of scrutiny. Say what you mean. "Stop touching women without their consent" "Stop making deepfakes of women without their consent." "Stop spreading women's paywalled content without their consent." See how easy that was? These statements actually mean something. "Sexualizing" is something you do in your own head, it's subjective, vague, and essentially meaningless.
To be honest, it's only going to get worse and more prevalent now. Might as well teach these streamers to deal with it in a healthy way because after pandora's box is open, there is no going back. Eventually deepfakes will get accurate voiceovers as well, which will make it indistinguishable from the original person. This is the price of fame in the modern age. You signed on the dotted line, the repercussions are not fair but neither is life.
Lmao ok but it’s illegal to sell it which is the big problem. Even if you’re stepping around the take you’re making by saying it’s not fair it’s still an incel take. Wether you know it or not.
@@greenburg2276 ok but try living in reality instead of fantasyland for a second. We don't live in a idealistic world. People lack morals. Know this instead of crying about it on the internet when those facts are proven to be true. The bigger incel take is white knighting on the topic like that is going to help anyone lmao
@@greenburg2276 calling him an incel is crazy bro I got some bad news for you called anywhere that isnt north america we really should teach them how to deal with this healthily cause it's not going away. Just being real, wack ass mfs for doing it tho
the lack of action is what will make it get worse. The normalization of the action will make it worse. If we just as a collective normalize people being deepfaked, it'll repell people from wanting to have any platform at all. The fact that this even happens and is almost strictly a problem that women face online is a huge problem in itself and the denial of that and choosing to remain ignorant about that is what will make it worse.
@@NaiveAgenda it’s illegal though in multiple states. Do you have this take with more dark pork? “It exists so deal with it.” Your ISP probably hates you with how many times they have to log your searches on Tor and report them to authorities.
Are deepfakes a problem when they try to pass off as real or just a problem in of itself? The technology and applications of the technology are fascinating and will no doubt change the entertainment industry.
It's a problem because you are gaining profit off of someones likeness without their consent. So... stealing. And the fact that it's done in the porn industry makes it 10x worse, and also takes from pornstars who, maybe at some point, will be out of work because people will just AI generate and deepfake all porn.
Imagine they make a deepfake of you saying things you don't agree with. Maybe you are a conservative and they make you say heinous things. Maybe you are a liberal and they make you say heinous things. They can deepfake voices and faces, eventually we won't be able to trust ANY video or recording we hear. Imagine your mom calls you on the phone but actually its a deepfake of your mom to scam you. The technology for live deep fakes (sort of like a filter) is getting better everyday. Soon having any picture of you on social media will be enough for someone to steal your entire identity online.
If you believe in private property, then yes. Deepfakes are an invasion of privacy, you're using someone's likeness or voice without their consent. However if you advocate for the abolishment of privacy, then deepfakes are fine, that's where the problem lies, with people who don't necessarily believe that you can have private ownership of things or yourself, but who still think that deepfakes are bad. Due to the nature of deepfakes being 100% an invasion of privacy, you can see where the contradictions can lie.
Most of the technologies are not the problem themselves. Deepfake is already widely used in cinema movies to swap stunt man with the actors. How to use it is the problem, e.g.using it for porn. Fake sexual material is not new. People made photoshopped celebrities nude 20 years ago. It can deal with the law, but it is really hard to execute.
When this shit first went down, I had just recently gotten hooked on his Hitman content. The whole situation felt so weird because one of the more niche content creators I had been binging for the past 6 months was now the centerpoint of a deepfake porn scandal. I still watch his Hitman videos but this is one of those situations that Atrioc will never be able to shake. Registered Goon Offender
Asmongold is a very intelligent person. Just wanted to throw this out there. Noticed it in many of his Videos. He always has pretty deeply, well thought out opinions on situations. His audience is a lot more mature than most as well. Even when he gives takes that on first view would seem outrageous or could be misunderstood they immediately get it, whether they agree or not.
25:00 Impersonation itself isn't a crime, though. You can legally do impressions ...what you can't do is to scam people. For example, one can play a cop in a movie, but they can't go out into the real world and lie to people that they are an actual police officer to gain their compliance.
"Laws won't do anything" is a super crusty take. Child porn laws exist for the sole purpose of attempting to prevent harm and for punishing individuals that consume the end product. Obviously they don't "solve" everything, but why would you not want to at least do SOMETHING?
In America at least, this kind of stuff falls under the first amendment. This isn't new, rags like Hustler Magazine have been doing things like this to celebrities for decades.
I sympathize, but QT's "this is what pain looks like" response certainly came across as a performative overreaction. It seems like a slap in the face to victims of actual sexual assault.
the most disturbing part is that "my friend" searched for some stuff like this and he said that most of them already had their own pron videos and they're more upset about those getting leaked. AI is going to replace art and streamers someday soon, this is just a cross section, and in this day and age most people wont bother to have a second look... outrage might keep them relevant a little longer but asking for attention and getting attention is what happens to anybody who treats people as a number for their own sociopathic gains. this is true for both sides of that coin.
could be worse. there's always VICE and Veritas hit pieces taht dehumanize people and destroy their lives / reputation and that is given Pulitzer prize from the mainstream psy operators.
I generally agree with Asmon, however imo he discounts the deeper reason to why these things occur. Viewing porn is toxic to a person in a much deeper way than most of us give it credit for. It literally changes your brain chemistry. I know most of us can attest to the negative effects of porn use gradually throughout our lives. What starts off as watching 'normal' porn eventually does escalate to darker and more demeaning things. The normal stuff doesn't appeal as much anymore and we look for heavier material which can quickly get out of control. There is a reason why Ted Bundy attributed his killings to his porn use. In Atrioc's case, things got out of hand for him. Does that make him a bad person? I would argue no. But that definitely does not discount his actions and the fact that he let his porn use get to that point.
Shit argument. Everything causes changes to your brain chemistry. Besides, people are allowed to do shit which damages them - cigarettes, alcohol, watching twitch streamers, etc..
This is something that can't be won . The more you pull the more there's going to be it's best to ignore it at the moment all there doing is advertising for something that existed long before the streamers fighting it .
While I think this is the case, I can't see how any media differentiates from this. Is lud allowed to make this video without the dudes consent? Is he allowed to reference pokimane without consent? Is a mainstream news article allowed to mention by name? What even is the purpose of consent? Wasn't its lawful implementation to affirm free will, and safety? I can see a lot of more tangible problems ensuing like maybe some sort of workplace leak, or maybe identity fraud. Although that could arguably be curbed by requiring a watermark.
10:50 I think that just Ludwigs opinion, not opining of men. There are girls and guys who find it funny when something gets leaked and also boys and girls who are terrified and disgusted by it. Also I dont understand how this whole thing is not illigal. They are profiting of someones name and brand, they could get sued.
the only way i think this can be combated "efficiently" is by having AI software scower the web, using facial recognition to identify sites that may have unconsented content and notifying the appropriate parties so that they may take action quickly
It does matter to a small extent, if making a law is only a baby step in curving the problem then that's what should happen because there really is no other steps against it. Even if that law can only be upheld to a tiny extent because the internet is vast, identities are easily hidden, and is not dictated by a single country it can still be upheld to some extent...no matter how small. Talking about it may help in some extent but it also informs the people who may be interested in this to it's existence...in the end talking is only going to make it bigger so the only thing we can do about it is take actions against it, and the only actions against it are legal actions. As far as the guy talking about it being a parody, two things to that, the first is a point made by Asmongold, no using someone's likeness and identity, even only for comedic effect is not a parody, someone's likeness and identity is not a style of art or expression...this would be closer to defamation than a parody. It's not like you're taking their hairstyle and color and using their makeup style or whatever else on a different person, this is literally using their personal image and creating something then monetizing it. The second is that a parody is always conscious about itself being a parody, advertising a deepfake as anything other than a deepfake (such as a "leak") automatically destroys any defense of it being a parody.
Honestly....its porn. Who cares. If its labeled as deepfake, and its known to not be really the person. Who cares. The only issue you could have with it is the profits part. So, youre saying if the proceeds came to you, youd be okay with it then? Thats the issue with streaming, and getting your face out there to the public over the internet. Youre going to get shit like this regardless if you like it or not. Just like being harrassed on the internet, hacked, and being swatted. Sadly, that just comes with the internet territory. Main reason i stopped myself from doing streaming. Porn is porn, as long as its not some creepy ass underage, beastiality type shit. Who cares? Between the dude, and his wife. If she has issues with him looking at porn. Thats between them, but honestly i find it to be an insecurity issue. Many couples have zero fucks on if one or the other looks at porn. Its just porn. Is it creepy hes looking at shit that looks like his friends? Sure, but thats the thing. It isnt really them, and hes a male. So obvioisly he will have thoughts that go through his head about other women. Its just shit that some men go through and it just runs through the blood of men to sexualize many things. I think this shit is being blown way the fuck out of proportion, and needs to be kept between the people immediately affected by it. Say your sorry, and move the fuck on. It is not really that big of an issue. If you care that much about fake porn, then go after the guy making it. Then also go after the cosplayers who also try to take on peoplea identities and so on. Idk this shits a bit stupid, and streaming and streamers are becoming more and more of a joke especially with these intermingling parties between these streamers. I agree also, the guys an idiot for having all of that on a streaming pc. Cant wait for a month to pass, and this shit be left in the dust.
Interestingly, celebrity look-a-like porn was all the rage over on Tumblr before they cracked down on explicit content. Basically, creators would scourer porn looking for pornstars that looked like famous celebs or the characters certain actors portray and either make gifs of specific scenes or even edit pornstar celeb look-a-likes from two separate films and use editing to put the people together and make gifs or video clips. Sounds to me, this guy got the idea from that trend and decided "screw all the hard work of video editing...I'll just use ai deep fake...and land myself some lawsuits. What a dumb dumb.
I'm not convinced they can be sued for anything as long as they didn't try to pass them off as real. It should fall under fair use, since it's clearly transformative content.
Asmond, just because something isn’t illegal in another country doesn’t mean passing a law in the US does nothing. For one, it’s illegal to sell flavored vape juice in my state. I can’t just go on a website located in another state and buy it there. If it’s illegal to do it would depend on where you were when you accessed the illegal material not the origin of it.
With regards to laws, Asmon is right that countries having different laws on deepfakes can make it difficult to combat. However, we can look towards the global response towards human trafficking to see that if countries work together to have a unified system regarding the issue, it is possible. The only problem is that with everything going on, I doubt China and Russia are in a particular cooperative mood so that would be difficult. It is also possible to criminalize the consumption of deepfake porn, which the US could probably do without the help of other nations. That won't eliminate the problem but it would put a much greater risk of producing and consuming deepfake porn that might make it more prohibitive.
I mean yeah I agree but let's face it, you won't find any international collaboration against deepfake porn as with other more serious crimes like human trafficking. Compared to human trafficking, deepfaking porn is like getting a parking ticket on the crime scale. Deepfake porn certainly hurts people but the economic and social damage is negligible currently. 5 Years ago, stalking as a crime wasn't even something in the lawbooks of many eu countries. If you had a stalker, you were fucked, there was nothing you could do. Now finally things are changing a bit. But it's slow progress. Challenging crime means rules, these rules need to be enforced, ergo more manpower, means more expenditure, more taxes - and people hate taxes. Maybe google could blacklist that stuff but that would just move the issue to the darknet.
Global unified system? hmmm.. maybe... maybe not also... UN is barely agreeing on how people are treated with their human rights discussions for the past decade... Even WHO have controversies... so unless there is a significant reason for a global unity that aint gonna happen. People from one country human trafficking people from other countries... people from other countries supplying drugs on other countries and trafficking too... and people do the same even to thier own countrymen.... It's the depravity that exist on Humans so when a wall is setup they create tunnels, if you clog the tunnels they fly over, if you seal the dome they bribe the guards... its not as simple as cooperation but dealing with the depravity that exist on each human. So i can't even expect any dent of help any global response that will be done.
I really think the generalization of just "men", while technically accurate, is a bad way to put it. Even if it's men doing it and using those sites, it's not a majority of men. By far. Just like women don't want to be put in the same pot as the worst examples of women, men don't wanna be lumped in with the worst examples of men. If you're gonna put out a statement, especially in text, choose your words wisely and be precise with whom you're accusing.
"stop sexualizing ppl with out their consent" - Ok... so i will never be sexualy attracted to anyone without their consent... I get what his saying. "Dont create sexual *content* with out their consent"
Is he upset because he did it, or because he got caught is the real question. Would Atrioc have had this sudden epiphany himself without outside intervention?...
Although this deep fake situation is bad, it should be looked at as a bigger picture to be able to solve it. I think last year there was a question about us being able to copyright or own our likeness. I didn’t follow that movement so I don’t know what happened to that. But I feel like seeing it at this small niche could result in a bad solution. This is not new, we’ve had “bad” edits for people being sexualized, now that those edits are better, it’s becoming more noticeable. It’s sad to see that this is becoming more of a men vs women, because that won’t solve anything at all. I get that it feels like “the others” are the bad people, but the problem stands and it’s been like this for years. I remember old websites with bad edits from 15 years ago at least. But there are a lot of problems that this situation brings up, the double standard of sexualizing men being “okay”, the owning of our likeness, the illegal stuff on the internet, etc. still, an awful situation
There are people in this comment section who argue that "See unlike women men want to be sexualized I would love the thought of women getting off to me". Horny brain has override their common sense they don't even understand how bad it can be with their nudes floating around the internet.
@@seekittycat See its not "their" nudes though. People keep conflating a fake image with real ones. There is a BIG difference between those two...especially if you are talking about legalities.
Proof that Asmongold's audience overlaps with Destiny's audience. So many stupid takes on morality or objective morality instead of just asking a basic question -- Is this wrong that ppl are putting your pics naked on the internet and monetizing it without you ever releasing naked pics? Of course. Stop with the weird hypothetical nonsense. We're dealing in reality not objectivity.
I agree with all of what Ludwig had to say, except one point. When he implied that a guy's nudes being leaked is just funny and not at the same level as a girl's. Maybe he would be okay with his nudes being on the internet, but I believe there are many men who would have the same reaction as women do in these situations. Regardless of gender this should be handled as a very serious issue. I believe Ludwig understands this, maybe his example was just a bit off, or he didn't word it properly. The bottomline is noone's likeness should be used in this way without their consent.
The technology behind producing deepfake, voice synthesisers, etc. is only going to get better and easier to access. If you are a high-profile personality, regardless of your profession, this will happen to you eventually. It's a shitty thing, but, expect it, and now expect it to happen more because it got this reaction. (Even though it's the right reaction).
Lol bro his wife better get paid. She was embarrassed and hurt and on top of it her husband is paying the legal fees for other women for his actions. Just divorce that dude.
When it comes to anime piracy there are actually many reasons to pirate that one could argue isn't inherently "Evil" or immoral. If you look at how crunchyroll subs/dubs some of their shows they can often be found adding nonsensical translations that the characters just flat didn't say whether that be to push an agenda like in kobayashi's dragon maid, or just the writers trying to be funny by adding "sus" into nagatoro. If you want the authentic translation for many of these shows, you literally don't get an option. Either pirate (so you can use the fan subs), or give up. Beyond that there's arguments for how shitty crunchyroll as a service is any any number of other issues but the absolute strongest argument for me is simply that these companies are literally butchering the translations to push an agenda or to "be hip and with the times", so as someone who doesn't want to see amongus memes in my anime translation that literally weren't there to begin with, I'll stick to piracy
If you want the authentic experience so bad, just learn Japanese. Not everything even in the fansubs is 100% accurate because somethings just don't translate well. Just admit you're stealing out of convenience, and stop pretending you are on some moral high ground.
It took exposing Atrioc to make this guy remove his website. Just like the rest, he’s only sorry he got caught doing it. But I’m genuinely concerned that even shady individuals who also can gain access to similar sites. Who knows?
He only watched it, it's not like he created it. This is cancel culture overreaction. People acting like the women were assaulted just because of deep fake, wtf
What bothers me is that this entire conversation is filled with half truths. I don't watch this, nor any of the above streamers to be completely honest, but why not have a sober talk about the actual and complete truth and then say it is still bad? There are many times each and every one of these streamers have been thirst trapping men, no matter how light it is (all over youtube). Or be truthful about exposure brings in costumers for onlyfans girls. That is genuinely the only thing that kinda is annoying, I get that it is horrible, but to act like these kind of people just appeared from nowhere bothering women whom have in no way "lightly thirst trapped men", it is simply not the truth. I do hope they make it the law to not use 3d render of them or w/e they call it, but what genuinely bothers me, is how weak all of this is. If people genuinely talked about it with no BS, I think the results would be way better. Rather than act like twitch borderline pushing naked women on literal twitch users which are not that old, would never be a problem (no offense, but I still do not understand how that is fine, even in this era where there is more of a "sacrifice men for women" deal going on, weird how women were just allowed to push porn to literal teenagers...only problem I have here). Or that these women have not repeatedly tried to pull in certain viewerships many times, over their careers. Again, not excusing any of this or even giving any level of points to the other side, it is horrible either way, but dusting that off, just seems dishonest and a waste of time since it will be the first thing everyone thinks about men and women "yeah but these women are clearly trying to....(you get the idea)"...And needs to be answered honestly, or people will not talk about it, but it will be beyond clearly in the back of everyones minds men and women. And the push back will be BS, since they believe you are BS'ing and acting like these women are borderline entering every stream with religious clothes/topics/never thirst trapping.....you get the idea....Just be direct, and say regardless of the literal first thing everyone would clearly mention in groups, it is still
At the end of the day, these people's jobs are to get views. Why won't they have an honest discussion? Because controversy is like the number 1 thing that produces views. Did Atrioc do it on purpose for views? Almost definitely not. But will all the other content creators say controversial shit and farm views off of the situation? Absolutey so lol. Asmon is a WoW streamer who "reacted" to the Johhny Depp trial lol. This guys a reality TV star basically.
Agree with asmon, we don't really treat celebrities like people, there's no way we'll treat streamers as people, they are basically internet celebrities anyway.
@DeathNikki This is almost exactly how most streamers view their audience though. Faceless cash registers. Most of these streamers have thousands of viewers, whom they know almost none of them, and interact with them minimally.
@DeathNikki I think the best example of this is that PewDiePie stream where people saw his tag and added him and he lost his shit lol.
I thought quite a bit on this but yeah, as soon as you are a celebrity, you lose the right to complain about this(the sexualizing of their person) imo. Even if there is no deepfake, as another female streamer said there is some dude jerking off to female celebs' necks. Deepfake should probably be classed as parody, a convincing parody but parody none the less.
But it becomes a problem when deepfakes show people doing crimes, so I think before it gets to that, it should be banned. Not even allowed to be consented.
@@mrlacksoriginality4877 m
@@sygmarvexarion7891 doesn't make it any more right my dude, these celeb are still people ya feel me?
In response to not "sexualizing people without their consent", this treads into thoughtcrime. I should be able to imagine whoever I want however I want--we all know no one is going around asking women "do you mind if I fantasize about you". This "sexualizing people without their consent" seems to only be a problem when someone's imagination can be easily made manifest and shared with others. If these women want anyone to actually give a fuck, they should approach it from the very legitimate "profiting on my likeness without permission" angle, which I would assume is backed by the right to legal ownership of one's personal likeness, rather than some half-baked appeal to morals which would, on the face of it, advocate for censoring one's own thoughts from oneself.
This is the real world presentation of this situation. I'm rather shocked this take isn't more common.
Honestly pretty levelheaded comment.
there cannot be a moral stand when they use the platform which also has hottub streams
@@holoceneevent4534 Those women are consenting to it at that point but congrats on missing the bigger picture here.
Libertarians trying to not look insane mission impossible.
What makes streamers different than Actors in terms of hate and mental health is that your fans have 100% access to you and you interact with them on a daily basis throughout your work hours non stop. actors get critics and reviews and stuff but most time never interact with them.
Also, they intentionally embrace their negative reactions to make their content more interesting.
@@JohnDoe-tj8rq yeahh it's gotta take it's toll tbh, everyone thinks its a dream job ( and its a pretty dope one dont get me wrong ) but its not all rainbows, look at nikocado for example, that whole trainwreck is such a messy situation
exactly
This makes none of them a victim. if any of them feels they were wronged in any way they can take legal action if the case makes sense.
I thought using someone’s likeness for commercial gain was already illegal in most states
Ya but if he isn't selling the videos nothing you can do. Like I could make a t shirt of your face but if I'm not selling them you can't really do anything.
@@bob999yaitis but they are selling them, not individually but he bought a subscription membership
Other country's exist btw
@Shylogik if they pay for the service to make it, they aren't buying the art, just funding the site. So, even in this instance, it was buying and selling it would be one quick tweak to make it fully legal
Yeah even if there isn’t a subscription model, if there were ads the videos would be commercial.
I like when asmon covers serious topics because it's a nice reminder for him to see that a good chunk of his audience is cancer.
Yeah holy cow this comment section is insane
For real. The people who can defend these actions are people who are ok with - and have probably already considered/committed - r@pe. Plain and simple. That shouldn't shock anyone, considering how often that crime is committed
Deepfakes are fine. Sexualizing people without consent is not. And deepfaking people as propaganda is not consensual either in a similar way.
His viewers need to be force-watched Dr. K's deepfake video.
@@greenburg2276 define sexualizing.
I agree with like 99% of what is being said here, but there is just this one part of the debate that I really dislike. And its the whole mentality behind how men can't be sexualized. Like Ludwigs take about "If a mans balls get leaked its cool, while if a womens breasts gets leaked a bunch of *men* jack off" Like, excuse me? Do women not jack off, have gay people left the planet? Sure balls are not the most attractive part of the body, but either way, someone is going to. Didn't Ludwig have his balls leaked and a bunch of people sexualized it?
If a part of a persons body gets leaked out there, or deepfaked against their consent its messed up. It doesn't matter what gender, and to me it doesn't matter that it happens mostly to women, the key thing is that it happens. And I think excluding men from the topic as a whole is really not ok. This whole "Its mostly men that are the perpetrator" and "It's mostly woman that are the victims" mentality needs to end. In the end of it, its humans being hurt by humans. The gender does not matter, and making it matter does 3 things:
1; As Asmon says it dehumanizes people. All of a sudden you're no longer a person, you're a man, and a man is X, Y and Z which are all bad and you should feel bad for that ( using man in this example as its the one being used in the topic ) This is why you see people react with "Not all men" People are hurt when you say that its "mostly men" People are vulnerable, and that turns into defence, anger, sadness. And is that okay?
2; It excludes people from being a victims, all of a sudden you're not supposed to feel bad for having your body part leaked, because when men get their balls leaked its "cool"
3; It excludes people from being perpetrators, oh a woman would never jack off to someones leaked breasts, woman are too pure for that. ( Again, using woman as the example here because of the topic )
I write this because I personally feel the hurt that comes with a topic like this, the hurt that supposedly my gender is bad because, well its mostly men is it not? Instead of its always bad people. And that hurt turns into, anger, anger I try hard not to act on. But in the end it mostly just turns to dissociation. Not wanting to be part of the topic, caring neither for the people hurting or those hurt, because it just makes me feel like shit. So why bother? This is why I think it' so important to not specify a group of people as perpetrators, because there will always be someone i that group that gets pushed away, or even worse, pushed into becoming a perpetrator.
The way we phrase things, matter.
To wrap up, I want to say that I'm truly sorry to everyone who has gotten a picture of them leaked, photoshopped, deepfaked, you name it. Your pain, anger, sadness, frustration, dysmorphia is valid. This is not something you should have to worry about, and I'm sorry that you've had to go through that. I wish you nothing but the best, and hope you're able to feel safe, take care of yourself.
I hate how streamers and the twitch community act suprised about this stuff, realistically their all doing weird shit that most people would wince at. Everytime someone gets exposed everyone just points a finger and makes content out of it.
Only the ones with the most deviant fetishes are screaming the loudest during such reveals. As if it's going to hide their own inhuman desires.
Thats not just streamers, thats human beings in general. Only difference is that streamers reactions are open to public...
@40:33 is kinda where I broke out of Asmon's influence lmfao. I respect the dude as a gamer, but what a terrible take on piracy. You absolutely can take a moral standpoint on piracy. Netflix movies and shows for example. Netflix's subscription has more than doubled in price since 2013, and the reality privileged people like Asmon seem to have forgotten in their come-ups is that most people are poor, and can hardly afford to live. To the majority of people viewing a stream, for example, being hit with 3 back-to-back-to-back one minute ads is enough to lose their attention, but they can't afford a sub, and gifts aren't guaranteed.
@@cruzjacknife8699 if people are poor their focus shouldn't be on a netflix sub
I mean this happens to Celebs for years... i just dont know how u can be suprised about it if u have millions of followers lol
I think people don't even think about how far deep fakes can be taken and how much damage they can cause. Imagine deep faking someone saying or doing something that is incredibly damaging or even incriminating and what that could cause.
That wouldn't cause anything since you could prove it's a deep fake
I feel like it would cause the opposite of what people think. I feel like rather than convict innocent people they'd haft to accept that video evidence is no longer viable since you can fake it
@@donut_42 ooooooook? What's that have to do with deep fakes
@Donut of Doom you do realize you have to prove that in court right.... as soon as they use ai footage as "proof" they get locked up for a false rape accusation....
@@theninja2k14 ai can determine if it's made by ai or not, no matter how good it gets.
Man, this whole debacle would make for a great segment of Wins and Fails
he became the very thing he swore to report on.
The fact that people were bugging Ludwig to make a comment on the whole situation when his girlfriend was one of the people involved is just sad.
Sure he could have made a full on rage video when he was in a bad head space but he prioritised comforting the person close to him when they needed it which was the most important thing to him at the time. Obviously I don't know QT personally but from what I've seen of her I'm sure she wouldn't have wanted him to go in guns blazing either.
His entire response was measured and focused on the important thing instead of making it all about his personal feelings.
Like really? People don't think... =[
the more drama the more entertainment. Pretty simple, anyone saying it's for other reasons is just straight up lying
QT IS NOT IN THE PICTURES FOR ANYONE WONDERING. It was just said it was on the site.
This is why I always listen to Asmon’s takes, I don’t always agree with him, but he doesn’t entertain those who only with to spark arguments. Rather, he asks how you would change or fix the issue, not bicker like children on twitter whilst pointing fingers at each other.
Comparing to photoshop is much more realistic than drawing. Photoshopping celebrities onto bodies has been happening for 30 years. Atrioc said that it wasn't any of the people he knew personally, so to him the streamers might as well be famous people he doesn't know. No one has ever cared about Anya Taylor Joy getting her face photoshopped onto naked pictures. Also, everyone is talking about "girls should be allowed to consent" and Atrioc in the same conversation, which frankly, are 2 completely different conversations. Anyone can touch themselves to just real pictures or videos of their friends, that doesn't require consent lol.
Are you justifying it though?
@@alocalstalker3231 It doesn't matter, he's right. All the arguments against deepfakes have been levied against photoshop and the world didn't outlaw photoshop, the reason this is a big deal is because people who aren't used to being targeted are now realizing how easy it is to be a target and are making a big stink about it.
You pay for your fame with your anonymity
@alocalstalker3231 I'm not justifying deep faking anyone. I am however confused on what, other than paging 15 dollars for p, should Atrioc be CANCELED for. He's not the one profiting from it or making it.
@@omny6686 He may not be profiting or personally making it, but he is guilty of supporting it.
I think what gets me is like, iv never heard any of these people talk about it before. Even though it's been a thing for almost a decade. But now I'm being told I gotta care about it, nahh. You only care cause it happen to you and your friends, they wouldn't care if it happen to me or my friends.
"y'all gotta stop doing this"
"use another pc"
bro, not what i expected him to say
That kinda joke is Literally what Asmon does tho
Pretty sure he meant use a different PC for all personal things, not use a different PC to look up deepfakes.
@@Honerkamp it indeed is, yet i was somehow still caught off guard
@@ProjctAce331 Exactly that is why it is funny.
@@xDarkTrinityx but if you do, at least be smart about it
It's already illegal to profit from someone else's likeness without their permission. Law enforcement just has to do something.
"No female streamers were harmed during the making of this video"
This definitely won’t go away this is just the beginning
Yeah.
Its like UBER Eats and stuff.
U dont list on their websides but they act like u do and order at your restaurant still and del7ver it.
All without your concent...
Its nothing new...
I mean, you can't just slide the double standard aside here. If this were a girl who got caught looking at deepfakes of male streamers, would we be here talking about it at all? Or would it just be a "Oh hahah" moment as usual?
Schrodinger: I can prove a flaw in the Copenhagen Method
Everybody: So you are saying there is a magic cat?
😂 Meow meow.
The most insane things that I hear around this conversations isn't the actual AI but the implications of the consequences around it for the people who has their identity taken.
That the creation of these videos, especially without their consent, can cause them to lose job opportunities, that people send them the videos asking the creators if it is them, or that they can be extorted with these videos by that people send it to their friends and families.
The rhetoric around "Not all men... But always a man" is pretty unfair and what it does is that it further antagonizes men. Not doubt that it was 90-10 m/f but like as a man who doesnt engage in this kind of degeneracy I feel like I am being looped into it. All it does is that it makes people want to disagree with you or it makes them not want to engage with your debate at all.
Is it not true?
@RivailleRavioli it's mostly men, but it's not most men. Most child murder is committed by women, but most women don't murder kids, so no one says all women are child murders. So I would say your sexism is showing.
@@FirstYokai Someone gave the harry styles situation. Deep fake that was shared and giddy about.
How much Henry Cavill and other male actors are sexualised, especially when some of them are obviously not comfortable with it.
The selling of it might be male-focused, but the fantasy and behaviour are not.
It’s that kind of rhetoric which is why the red pill content got so popular. Turns out, demonizing an entire gender and telling them they’re awful bc of their immutable characteristics is actually a bad thing to do
The really sad thing is that the same thing has been actually happening forever, the only difference now is that instead of unrealistic 3d models we now have the most real-looking ai-generated fakes ever, and it's only going to get easier to create them as technology advances... it is unstoppable as it has always been and it will only get worse, and it's scary to think about, but sadly I don't think there's any solution to this and the only thing we can do is (as I think for most of the toxic topics on the internet) try to reduce the future consumers by educating children at home and at school while trying to stimulate their empathy and make them understand how horrible it is, as unrealistic as that sounds.
I think Ludwig makes a stupid argument when he says "Well, only men were involved in the creation of this site so somehow it's okay to generalize men's behaviour and call all of them pigs". Yeah, they were female streamers, of course the majority of people involved in making nudes of them would be men. If you got into some weird K-Pop community, you would probably find a majority of women sexualizing the male singers (and a majority of men sexualizing the female singers), yet it wouldn't be fair labelling them all as evil just because of a group of weirdos.
He's saying that maybe it isn't all men that do these things; but conveniently it has been men exclusively that do all these things. And, oddly enough, only men that have been defending Atrioc.
@@TwilightWolf285 Maybe men wouldn't jump to his side if the victims didn't react by lumping every men together with who should be accountable for it.
It's was a knee-jerk reaction by the victims side, considering the situation, but it's inflamatory, as you can see.
Now everyone that's vocal about not wanting to be called perverts because of criminals is considered to be defending Atrioc.
He never said that though? His specific quote was "Not all men, but somehow always men"
That last part doesn't cancel out the first. He doesn't describe this as an issue with all men being pigs.
Also I get that this is the internet so it can be hard to truly measure scope, but if you really think that the problem of women sexualizing men without their consent in "some weird K=pop communities" out there somewhere that neither of us have seen or can name without digging for it is equivalent to the problem of men sexualizing women, which we see examples of every single day both in real life as well as online discourse like this, then you're simply not critically thinking about the issue or just don't care about it.
Like... he even says that this is a *disproportionately* male problem. I don't know why some people feel so defensive over that conversation.
I'm a man too and none of these arguments have ever made me feel like I'm being judged as a pervert or a pig, because I'm aware that I don't engage in the behavior being talked about.
@@sere971 Because it's always women crying about this. Yeah, if you shine the light on one side of course that's all you're gonna see. Because guess what? Generally, guys don't care. It's not hard to understand.
Ludwig is just being sexist.
tbh people can do it with or without AI all they need is a clip or screencapture and theyre good, there is nothing that can interrupt someones will to do it if they want to and just because someone knows that they did that doest make it worse. I know most people are better of not knowing that thats happening behind the scenes and when reality hits its hard but thats unfortunately life
@@SoverineSR very true
@@SoverineSR it's not like you share your fantasies with the world when you fap tho, isn't that obviously the big difference and problem? of course everyone knows everyone sexualizes to some degree, the problem is in making it public and in explicit content format
I hate how people equate shit like rape or human trafficking to fake nudes. It's not even comparable.
AIso, fake nudes are obviously fake and until the tech gets to the point where you legitimately can't tell if it's actually the person or not I don't care. It IS parody, and you won't convince me otherwise.
I feel like everyone is trying to fucking gaslight me and each other on this "issue". It's not an issue, yet.
we are almost there already, that's why people are panicking . And honestly it would be better to make laws sooner then later
@rick mel how is that even related or remotely similar to what he said?
@@SingedWasRight Distribution, Hosting and Possession to be illegal.
@@SingedWasRight Why shouldn’t it be?
@@SingedWasRight What would be negated? It could easily be classified as Revenge Porn.
Tbf leaking it on stream is what brought attention to it and got it taken down though that could’ve happened without the leak
Someone's gonna deep fake Asmon putting vegetables on his plate with food
I feel like people have forgotten about the celebrity lookalike porn genre. This shit has always existed, it’s just easier and cheaper to produce now
I think it makes it easier to think of it like this:
1. All vice should be removed by the state
2. Porn is a vice.
THEREFORE.
3. the state should remove porn.
Whether it is effective or not does not matter - the syllogism stands and thus the moral obligation.
I wonder if this reasoning is appealing to you?
To put it in moralistic terms to make the syllogism even easier to follow:
1. All evil should be removed by the state
2. Porn is evil
THEREFORE
3. Porn should be removed by the state
You could distinguish premise 1.
- opposition that would cause more evil, I deny (that the state should remove in such a case)
- opposition where more good occurs (less evil), I concede (that the state should remove in such a case)
I'm not defending it but all I'm saying is that this has been happening to celebrities for years and now all of a sudden people want to talk about it as soon as it happens to streamers
@@SingedWasRight second this
ad block and adds are a complete different argument
since the law can't impose content on a viewer, but also can't deny for companies to pay for ads.
Its nuts how the conversation went from deep fakes to the argument of the universe and what is and what isn't lol. I feel bad for all the super High people watching this and freaking out.
The argument about parody laws is really good. If it's being sold as deep fakes and not advertised as the real thing then how is it any different from fan art and so on?
If there are any laws put in place for this it will be about false advertisement and fraud, not people's privacy or dignity on the internet. Maybe there is an argument to be made about people's faces becoming their intellectual property from now. Kind of like tattoos. A difficult thing to traverse through. Do we copyright voices too? Bodyshape? What about identical twins?
Sucks, but what's the 34th rule of the internet?
The big problem is that people can put a disclaimer saying it isn't fake on the website that they sell it, but once it spreads into the internet, the disclaimer doesn't go along with it.
So when it reaches someone's family and friends, it creates such a horrible situation and for what? Just so some dickhead can profit?
At the end of the day, it is much easier to convince someone to believe a lie than it is to convince them to believe they were lied to. No matter how someone tries, they are not going to be able to tell everyone that those pictures/videos were deepfaked. Especially with the technology getting as good as it is getting.
It is putting complete strangers into a horrible position for personal gain. It is sickeningly selfish. Personally, I find it to be indefensible from any kind of moral standpoint.
That's tough to say tbh, but i'm pretty sure that even if it's fan art the creators can stop what you doing it because they own the right too the character. Now how would this translate to actual people i have no idea.
@@freedomextremist7215 "This has been estabilished law forever"
Law changes all the time buddy, especially since as the context of the world changes.
How can you regulate a technology with a law that was created before that technology was even conceptualized?
Laws aren't written in stone. Laws have always changed. Guidelines are updated. Regulations adapt.
@@naosou921 Legally, the culpability would then be on whoever was spreading the videos and claiming they were real, not the original creator.
In a world (like the one we have now) where celebreties are being deepfaked all the time, it should be easy enough for someone to say "that's not real, it's deepfaked" and move on. Does anyone really believe Pokimane had a train ran on her by the men from blacked?
I think the best way to handle a situation like this in regards to deepfakes, is to reduce presence of deepfake sites to the degree in wich a person would have to use a vpn, go through certain network tunneling, and generally do a bunch of stuff to gain access. You can not really eliminate this issue, but making it harder to have such ease of access to content like this to the point it is more of a hassle to get to is the next best thing.
13:26
Hell, probably most of the audience is but some aren't like this.
I wish you a happy and great life asmon. You're not just a dancing monkey. I think you're an extremely authentic person and that deserves a lot of respect.
Ofc people wish to be in the same position to be famous and earn a lot but I think it's possible to be jealous AND grateful for what the other person has at the same time.
Like one wants what another has but this person is still happy about the other person having these things.
I think you have a great attitude towards things, cause I think the ways you're thinking will keep you sane in this hateful world, so keep it up buddy c:
Asmongold: "Can we please stop pretending like the U.S. government controls the internet?"
China: 😢
Amazon Web Services 🌾
@@pcbangbros8350 Is that suppose to mean something?
@@VegaSnipe AWS.
@@pcbangbros8350 That's a no.
11:37 this argument usually comes after a man tells a woman to get over it bc they don't care/wouldn't care in the same position. i mean destiny goes on and on about how he doesn't give a fuck about his nudes being out there, the fact that ppl make deepfakes of him, but still thinks he has the right to judge someone's reaction to having their own deepfakes? its only a man vs woman thing because so many men act like it's not an issue in the first place.
What man has ever cared about their face being put on a pornstar? We would love that.
@@lazygamer4746 i think moistcritikal's video was great on this bc he touches on both genders. i feel like its definitely possible for men to feel bothered by this, but bc they know their peers will tell them to just get over, they just suck it up. but i think a lot of men also don't care unless they get deepfaked with a small penis or put in a submissive role.
its actually similar to the way fangirls write extremely inappropriate fanfics about their fave youtubers. i remember jacksepticeye saying how much it bothered him that these weirdos were making him do things with his bestfriend but no one cared.
@@null6955
I think this highlights a big difference between the sexes. Men and women are just different, and we may not ever be able to truly understand each other. You can empathize sure, but I will never truly understand how a woman feels about being looked at like a piece of meat, because I want people to look at me that way. I want to be sexualized, many many men want to be sexualized. We would love for women to cat call us, we would love to know women masturbate to us.
@@lazygamer4746 that's fair. i think some women are also like that as well, but probably not as much as men. i feel like if there wasn't so much social baggage attached to women being sexualized, it might be a bit more even. that's probably the big difference, women don't mind being sexualized, but if they're only seen like a piece of meat, that's when it gets bad because despite all the work they've done all ppl see is their body or face.
qt talked about the deepfakes triggering her body dysmorphia and i think this might be something men deal with too. like how women get put on thinner bodies and men get put on taller or more ripped bodies.
Well women and men are equal and the same remember?
Still cant believe what has happened. I never expected Big A to fall from grace like this. I think that everyone will get over the whole situation eventually. I hope he is in good spirits when he comes back. Much love to everyone.
Dude its happening since military allowed internet
dont get me wrong, its bad. but the way people are acting sounds more like he intentionally leaked an ex-gfs nudes for revenge or something, rather than what it was. im sure he'll be back if he wants to come back.
@@auscaliber1 the way people are acting? The fuck does other people's actions or opinions have to do with what his real intentions were? That's a very bold claim to be making and I have never even seen atrioc nor do I like him since this is the first I've actually seen of him so I'm not on his side or anything. That's just a really bad accusation to make. Thats MUCH worse than watching deep fake porn. To assume someone is THAT scummy because of having a certain website open is totally wrong.
It's actually funny now how ppl were freaking out after poki mentioned legislation, like she was trying to go after ppl who don't like her 1984 style. It's about porn guys, it was always about ppl making and using porn in illicit nefarious ways.
"can't stop people for making it" is not a good reason not to make laws around it tbh, it'll definitely reduce it and make people think twice before engaging
govern me harder daddy
@@donut_42 sure but this means at least there is at least one less service for it out there. Lots of people still pirate music but it would be way more if it was legal don't you think? Laws work
I don't think anyone is saying that laws shouldn't be made against it. We are just saying that content like that is inevitable, and even if it is reduced, it won't be stopped, which you kinda stated in your comment anyway.
It won't stop shit. Drugs are illegal and lots of people do them. Murder is illegal yet people get killed everyday
Tell that to drugs and alchohol. Banning those DEFINTLY did more good than harm 🙄. Stop trying to micromanage people.
small point about the schroedingers cat thing: the concept is that some things are and aren't at the same time, not neither. so being and not being are the only two states.
The sad reality is that the cat is out of the bag. You can limit access by making it harder to get to it but you will never be able to stop it. You can't criminalize usage but you can go after creators within reason.
#35 trending in gaming. Really love the gameplay
If they ban the sites they'll just start selling the neural network that generates the videos. Once the model has been trained, you no longer need the training data. People could keep copies of this on a tiny flash drive
The drawing comment is what I was thinking, but Asmon took it the wrong way. This is AI generated and is currently labeled as art, so it falls in the same category as drawings of people. Meaning it would be difficult to stop this legally.
His response about impersonation would make more sense if someone tried to pass these off as real or tried to use deepfakes to scam people. He himself has uploaded a video where he laughed at an AI copy of him that someone made. Granted, that wasn't adult content, but my point is that deepfakes aren't inherently illegal as long as nobody tries to pass them off as real or uses them to scam people.
While I feel for the violation these people feel, to compare it to rape is absolutely nuts. There is zero physical trauma or threat to the victim. It's making people uncomfortable. It's creepy and weird, but it's not even worthy of being a crime imo. If an artist drew a picture of Pokimane naked, it wouldn't have this effect, so AI generated art shouldn't either.
@@Thanatos2k I've seen tons of sexy streamer art. Why is no one calling out those artists?
Did people suddenly come to a realization that anything they publish stops being private..?
this is just a shift in weirdness. think about it. how many girls who make onlyfans really enjoy the idea that guys buy their content to wack off to? girls only care that they are making money from it as they should. that's their end goal. but deep down those same women think its probably pathetic that guys pay for their shit. like get a gf dude, kinda logic.
so this deep fake stuff is just a shift passed inceldom into something far less controlled and a lot more volatile. so it freaks those girls out as it should. it's not normal. if the Streisand effect really pushes this technology into the forefront of poxn entertainment, there might be some pushback at first but if there's a way for people to monetize it, you know, take advantage of this system that takes advantage of them to make a profit off it, then it'll be normalized as a new product of sad incel behavior; the bar lowered even further.
look at code miko, she was one of the first to invest serious money into that V-tuber crap. it paid off is it was fairly new stuff that she got in early. the same thing could happen with this deepfake crap just in a more taboo way.
i'm not for that shit at all. i'm just calling it like it is. based off of what has happened in the past. when people cannot kill the beast, it eventually turns into a lucrative form of entertainment, irrespective of how disgusting it is.
If the standard is not "sexualizing people without their consent", that's an impossible standard. I hate that phrase, we need to stop using it. It's logically deficient, and falls apart with the smallest amount of scrutiny. Say what you mean. "Stop touching women without their consent" "Stop making deepfakes of women without their consent." "Stop spreading women's paywalled content without their consent." See how easy that was? These statements actually mean something. "Sexualizing" is something you do in your own head, it's subjective, vague, and essentially meaningless.
To be honest, it's only going to get worse and more prevalent now. Might as well teach these streamers to deal with it in a healthy way because after pandora's box is open, there is no going back. Eventually deepfakes will get accurate voiceovers as well, which will make it indistinguishable from the original person. This is the price of fame in the modern age. You signed on the dotted line, the repercussions are not fair but neither is life.
Lmao ok but it’s illegal to sell it which is the big problem. Even if you’re stepping around the take you’re making by saying it’s not fair it’s still an incel take. Wether you know it or not.
@@greenburg2276 ok but try living in reality instead of fantasyland for a second. We don't live in a idealistic world. People lack morals. Know this instead of crying about it on the internet when those facts are proven to be true. The bigger incel take is white knighting on the topic like that is going to help anyone lmao
@@greenburg2276 calling him an incel is crazy bro I got some bad news for you called anywhere that isnt north america we really should teach them how to deal with this healthily cause it's not going away. Just being real, wack ass mfs for doing it tho
the lack of action is what will make it get worse. The normalization of the action will make it worse. If we just as a collective normalize people being deepfaked, it'll repell people from wanting to have any platform at all. The fact that this even happens and is almost strictly a problem that women face online is a huge problem in itself and the denial of that and choosing to remain ignorant about that is what will make it worse.
@@NaiveAgenda it’s illegal though in multiple states. Do you have this take with more dark pork? “It exists so deal with it.” Your ISP probably hates you with how many times they have to log your searches on Tor and report them to authorities.
Honestly, if Ludwig has just told the people hitting him up over this “fuck off, you guys come second right now” I would think that’s fair
Are deepfakes a problem when they try to pass off as real or just a problem in of itself? The technology and applications of the technology are fascinating and will no doubt change the entertainment industry.
It's a problem because you are gaining profit off of someones likeness without their consent. So... stealing. And the fact that it's done in the porn industry makes it 10x worse, and also takes from pornstars who, maybe at some point, will be out of work because people will just AI generate and deepfake all porn.
Deepfakes are usually bad because you can tell its botched as fuck though sometimes the content can be "good." Hope it sticks around longer.
Imagine they make a deepfake of you saying things you don't agree with. Maybe you are a conservative and they make you say heinous things. Maybe you are a liberal and they make you say heinous things. They can deepfake voices and faces, eventually we won't be able to trust ANY video or recording we hear. Imagine your mom calls you on the phone but actually its a deepfake of your mom to scam you. The technology for live deep fakes (sort of like a filter) is getting better everyday. Soon having any picture of you on social media will be enough for someone to steal your entire identity online.
If you believe in private property, then yes. Deepfakes are an invasion of privacy, you're using someone's likeness or voice without their consent. However if you advocate for the abolishment of privacy, then deepfakes are fine, that's where the problem lies, with people who don't necessarily believe that you can have private ownership of things or yourself, but who still think that deepfakes are bad. Due to the nature of deepfakes being 100% an invasion of privacy, you can see where the contradictions can lie.
Most of the technologies are not the problem themselves. Deepfake is already widely used in cinema movies to swap stunt man with the actors.
How to use it is the problem, e.g.using it for porn. Fake sexual material is not new. People made photoshopped celebrities nude 20 years ago.
It can deal with the law, but it is really hard to execute.
When this shit first went down, I had just recently gotten hooked on his Hitman content. The whole situation felt so weird because one of the more niche content creators I had been binging for the past 6 months was now the centerpoint of a deepfake porn scandal. I still watch his Hitman videos but this is one of those situations that Atrioc will never be able to shake. Registered Goon Offender
Asmongold is a very intelligent person.
Just wanted to throw this out there.
Noticed it in many of his Videos. He always has pretty deeply, well thought out opinions on situations.
His audience is a lot more mature than most as well. Even when he gives takes that on first view would seem outrageous or could be misunderstood they immediately get it, whether they agree or not.
25:00 Impersonation itself isn't a crime, though. You can legally do impressions ...what you can't do is to scam people. For example, one can play a cop in a movie, but they can't go out into the real world and lie to people that they are an actual police officer to gain their compliance.
My mind is a Deepfake generator……
true but not everyone can visualize imagery as well as someone like you or someone with an artistic visually stimulated mind.
is it possible to learn this power?
@@toastytoast9800 If you dont have it already, you are an NPC.
I kinda have it, but I need a picture for it to start workin'. Just normal photos
@@toastytoast9800 Not from a Jedi.
"Laws won't do anything" is a super crusty take. Child porn laws exist for the sole purpose of attempting to prevent harm and for punishing individuals that consume the end product. Obviously they don't "solve" everything, but why would you not want to at least do SOMETHING?
In America at least, this kind of stuff falls under the first amendment. This isn't new, rags like Hustler Magazine have been doing things like this to celebrities for decades.
I sympathize, but QT's "this is what pain looks like" response certainly came across as a performative overreaction. It seems like a slap in the face to victims of actual sexual assault.
@rick mel you think what qt went through was ptsd?
the most disturbing part is that "my friend" searched for some stuff like this and he said that most of them already had their own pron videos and they're more upset about those getting leaked. AI is going to replace art and streamers someday soon, this is just a cross section, and in this day and age most people wont bother to have a second look... outrage might keep them relevant a little longer but asking for attention and getting attention is what happens to anybody who treats people as a number for their own sociopathic gains. this is true for both sides of that coin.
could be worse. there's always VICE and Veritas hit pieces taht dehumanize people and destroy their lives / reputation and that is given Pulitzer prize from the mainstream psy operators.
Let's hope the law sides with the people in the upcoming lawsuits
I generally agree with Asmon, however imo he discounts the deeper reason to why these things occur. Viewing porn is toxic to a person in a much deeper way than most of us give it credit for. It literally changes your brain chemistry. I know most of us can attest to the negative effects of porn use gradually throughout our lives. What starts off as watching 'normal' porn eventually does escalate to darker and more demeaning things. The normal stuff doesn't appeal as much anymore and we look for heavier material which can quickly get out of control. There is a reason why Ted Bundy attributed his killings to his porn use.
In Atrioc's case, things got out of hand for him. Does that make him a bad person? I would argue no. But that definitely does not discount his actions and the fact that he let his porn use get to that point.
Shit argument. Everything causes changes to your brain chemistry. Besides, people are allowed to do shit which damages them - cigarettes, alcohol, watching twitch streamers, etc..
This is something that can't be won . The more you pull the more there's going to be it's best to ignore it at the moment all there doing is advertising for something that existed long before the streamers fighting it .
While I think this is the case, I can't see how any media differentiates from this. Is lud allowed to make this video without the dudes consent? Is he allowed to reference pokimane without consent? Is a mainstream news article allowed to mention by name?
What even is the purpose of consent? Wasn't its lawful implementation to affirm free will, and safety? I can see a lot of more tangible problems ensuing like maybe some sort of workplace leak, or maybe identity fraud. Although that could arguably be curbed by requiring a watermark.
10:50 I think that just Ludwigs opinion, not opining of men. There are girls and guys who find it funny when something gets leaked and also boys and girls who are terrified and disgusted by it.
Also I dont understand how this whole thing is not illigal. They are profiting of someones name and brand, they could get sued.
I love how genuine his takes are on these videos but I also love all the meme content from this comment section lol
the only way i think this can be combated "efficiently" is by having AI software scower the web, using facial recognition to identify sites that may have unconsented content and notifying the appropriate parties so that they may take action quickly
The illegal distribution?
Yes.
The fapping to pictures of famous people?
No.
It does matter to a small extent, if making a law is only a baby step in curving the problem then that's what should happen because there really is no other steps against it. Even if that law can only be upheld to a tiny extent because the internet is vast, identities are easily hidden, and is not dictated by a single country it can still be upheld to some extent...no matter how small. Talking about it may help in some extent but it also informs the people who may be interested in this to it's existence...in the end talking is only going to make it bigger so the only thing we can do about it is take actions against it, and the only actions against it are legal actions.
As far as the guy talking about it being a parody, two things to that, the first is a point made by Asmongold, no using someone's likeness and identity, even only for comedic effect is not a parody, someone's likeness and identity is not a style of art or expression...this would be closer to defamation than a parody. It's not like you're taking their hairstyle and color and using their makeup style or whatever else on a different person, this is literally using their personal image and creating something then monetizing it. The second is that a parody is always conscious about itself being a parody, advertising a deepfake as anything other than a deepfake (such as a "leak") automatically destroys any defense of it being a parody.
Honestly....its porn. Who cares. If its labeled as deepfake, and its known to not be really the person. Who cares. The only issue you could have with it is the profits part. So, youre saying if the proceeds came to you, youd be okay with it then? Thats the issue with streaming, and getting your face out there to the public over the internet. Youre going to get shit like this regardless if you like it or not. Just like being harrassed on the internet, hacked, and being swatted. Sadly, that just comes with the internet territory. Main reason i stopped myself from doing streaming. Porn is porn, as long as its not some creepy ass underage, beastiality type shit. Who cares? Between the dude, and his wife. If she has issues with him looking at porn. Thats between them, but honestly i find it to be an insecurity issue. Many couples have zero fucks on if one or the other looks at porn. Its just porn. Is it creepy hes looking at shit that looks like his friends? Sure, but thats the thing. It isnt really them, and hes a male. So obvioisly he will have thoughts that go through his head about other women. Its just shit that some men go through and it just runs through the blood of men to sexualize many things. I think this shit is being blown way the fuck out of proportion, and needs to be kept between the people immediately affected by it. Say your sorry, and move the fuck on. It is not really that big of an issue. If you care that much about fake porn, then go after the guy making it. Then also go after the cosplayers who also try to take on peoplea identities and so on. Idk this shits a bit stupid, and streaming and streamers are becoming more and more of a joke especially with these intermingling parties between these streamers. I agree also, the guys an idiot for having all of that on a streaming pc. Cant wait for a month to pass, and this shit be left in the dust.
Read your whole comment. What a childish and surface level take.
Asmon "It's actually because I fn hate Charlie, ok? He's got better hair than me, and I don't like it."
I love Asmon :)
It is a %100 certainty that the guy that made that website is an Asmon subscriber on Twitch.
Imagine paying for pron lol
I will never understand paying for it.
49:06 gawd the background music just kicked in for me ;-;
Can I have the name of the song?
Interestingly, celebrity look-a-like porn was all the rage over on Tumblr before they cracked down on explicit content. Basically, creators would scourer porn looking for pornstars that looked like famous celebs or the characters certain actors portray and either make gifs of specific scenes or even edit pornstar celeb look-a-likes from two separate films and use editing to put the people together and make gifs or video clips. Sounds to me, this guy got the idea from that trend and decided "screw all the hard work of video editing...I'll just use ai deep fake...and land myself some lawsuits. What a dumb dumb.
While I agree that it’s dumb, creating any ai is significantly more complicated then editing a look a like video. Like wayyyyyy more complicated
I'm not convinced they can be sued for anything as long as they didn't try to pass them off as real. It should fall under fair use, since it's clearly transformative content.
AI shit in the last year has been absolutely nuts tbh
comparing deepfakes to rape is a real 2023 take
stop sexualizing people with their consent... what??? no shit if i ask someone i dont even know would they say yes??? no right? what a redundant quote
Speaking of sexualizing people without their consent. Has anybody heard about Wattpad? Or fan-fiction genre?
Asmond, just because something isn’t illegal in another country doesn’t mean passing a law in the US does nothing.
For one, it’s illegal to sell flavored vape juice in my state. I can’t just go on a website located in another state and buy it there.
If it’s illegal to do it would depend on where you were when you accessed the illegal material not the origin of it.
With regards to laws, Asmon is right that countries having different laws on deepfakes can make it difficult to combat. However, we can look towards the global response towards human trafficking to see that if countries work together to have a unified system regarding the issue, it is possible. The only problem is that with everything going on, I doubt China and Russia are in a particular cooperative mood so that would be difficult.
It is also possible to criminalize the consumption of deepfake porn, which the US could probably do without the help of other nations. That won't eliminate the problem but it would put a much greater risk of producing and consuming deepfake porn that might make it more prohibitive.
I mean yeah I agree but let's face it, you won't find any international collaboration against deepfake porn as with other more serious crimes like human trafficking. Compared to human trafficking, deepfaking porn is like getting a parking ticket on the crime scale. Deepfake porn certainly hurts people but the economic and social damage is negligible currently. 5 Years ago, stalking as a crime wasn't even something in the lawbooks of many eu countries. If you had a stalker, you were fucked, there was nothing you could do. Now finally things are changing a bit. But it's slow progress. Challenging crime means rules, these rules need to be enforced, ergo more manpower, means more expenditure, more taxes - and people hate taxes. Maybe google could blacklist that stuff but that would just move the issue to the darknet.
Global unified system? hmmm.. maybe... maybe not also... UN is barely agreeing on how people are treated with their human rights discussions for the past decade... Even WHO have controversies... so unless there is a significant reason for a global unity that aint gonna happen. People from one country human trafficking people from other countries... people from other countries supplying drugs on other countries and trafficking too... and people do the same even to thier own countrymen.... It's the depravity that exist on Humans so when a wall is setup they create tunnels, if you clog the tunnels they fly over, if you seal the dome they bribe the guards... its not as simple as cooperation but dealing with the depravity that exist on each human.
So i can't even expect any dent of help any global response that will be done.
Lets be real... its not a big enough deal that all the countries in the world will put down their difference to deal with this.
they will never ban deepfake porn outright, it will only be banned if it is included in some bill that bans all deepfakes.
I really think the generalization of just "men", while technically accurate, is a bad way to put it.
Even if it's men doing it and using those sites, it's not a majority of men. By far. Just like women don't want to be put in the same pot as the worst examples of women, men don't wanna be lumped in with the worst examples of men.
If you're gonna put out a statement, especially in text, choose your words wisely and be precise with whom you're accusing.
"stop sexualizing ppl with out their consent" - Ok... so i will never be sexualy attracted to anyone without their consent... I get what his saying. "Dont create sexual *content* with out their consent"
NO! You're supposed to STOP THINKING about people who do not want you to think about them! Have some respect! /s
@@profanemagic5671 Amen🙏 brother 😤
It's both fascinating and disturbing to see how chatters react to this topic
A few years ago there was all this outrage over guys just having the image of someone in their head while masturbating.
If you make it illegal, photo shopping becomes illegal.
They’re two totally different technologies.. what you said just simply isn’t the case
Is he upset because he did it, or because he got caught is the real question.
Would Atrioc have had this sudden epiphany himself without outside intervention?...
Hell no
wouldn't that the case in any situation?
but its true that if no one knows about it it didn't happen
“Welcome to the internet, take a look around.”
Although this deep fake situation is bad, it should be looked at as a bigger picture to be able to solve it. I think last year there was a question about us being able to copyright or own our likeness. I didn’t follow that movement so I don’t know what happened to that. But I feel like seeing it at this small niche could result in a bad solution. This is not new, we’ve had “bad” edits for people being sexualized, now that those edits are better, it’s becoming more noticeable. It’s sad to see that this is becoming more of a men vs women, because that won’t solve anything at all. I get that it feels like “the others” are the bad people, but the problem stands and it’s been like this for years. I remember old websites with bad edits from 15 years ago at least. But there are a lot of problems that this situation brings up, the double standard of sexualizing men being “okay”, the owning of our likeness, the illegal stuff on the internet, etc. still, an awful situation
Privileged internet thots made it a "woman" issue, it's just an internet issue and old one too
There are people in this comment section who argue that "See unlike women men want to be sexualized I would love the thought of women getting off to me". Horny brain has override their common sense they don't even understand how bad it can be with their nudes floating around the internet.
@@seekittycat See its not "their" nudes though. People keep conflating a fake image with real ones. There is a BIG difference between those two...especially if you are talking about legalities.
Crazy how Ludwig is literally saying that men and women are not equal when it helps his image but hey I won’t say anything
Proof that Asmongold's audience overlaps with Destiny's audience. So many stupid takes on morality or objective morality instead of just asking a basic question -- Is this wrong that ppl are putting your pics naked on the internet and monetizing it without you ever releasing naked pics?
Of course. Stop with the weird hypothetical nonsense. We're dealing in reality not objectivity.
Some guy watching deepfake porn? That's it? That's the drama? Who cares
asmon - "use another PC" looking at his other PC lol
I agree with all of what Ludwig had to say, except one point. When he implied that a guy's nudes being leaked is just funny and not at the same level as a girl's. Maybe he would be okay with his nudes being on the internet, but I believe there are many men who would have the same reaction as women do in these situations.
Regardless of gender this should be handled as a very serious issue. I believe Ludwig understands this, maybe his example was just a bit off, or he didn't word it properly.
The bottomline is noone's likeness should be used in this way without their consent.
The technology behind producing deepfake, voice synthesisers, etc. is only going to get better and easier to access. If you are a high-profile personality, regardless of your profession, this will happen to you eventually. It's a shitty thing, but, expect it, and now expect it to happen more because it got this reaction. (Even though it's the right reaction).
Poki has sexualised herself for profit and then complains about being sexualised...modern women
No she hasn't. Jfc worst take 2023 from an incel.
Lol bro his wife better get paid. She was embarrassed and hurt and on top of it her husband is paying the legal fees for other women for his actions. Just divorce that dude.
When it comes to anime piracy there are actually many reasons to pirate that one could argue isn't inherently "Evil" or immoral. If you look at how crunchyroll subs/dubs some of their shows they can often be found adding nonsensical translations that the characters just flat didn't say whether that be to push an agenda like in kobayashi's dragon maid, or just the writers trying to be funny by adding "sus" into nagatoro. If you want the authentic translation for many of these shows, you literally don't get an option. Either pirate (so you can use the fan subs), or give up. Beyond that there's arguments for how shitty crunchyroll as a service is any any number of other issues but the absolute strongest argument for me is simply that these companies are literally butchering the translations to push an agenda or to "be hip and with the times", so as someone who doesn't want to see amongus memes in my anime translation that literally weren't there to begin with, I'll stick to piracy
If you want the authentic experience so bad, just learn Japanese. Not everything even in the fansubs is 100% accurate because somethings just don't translate well. Just admit you're stealing out of convenience, and stop pretending you are on some moral high ground.
Bro really tried to say Schrödinger’s Cat doesn’t exist. Elaborate?
It took exposing Atrioc to make this guy remove his website. Just like the rest, he’s only sorry he got caught doing it. But I’m genuinely concerned that even shady individuals who also can gain access to similar sites. Who knows?
I also have no doubt that men are also victims of deepfake porn as well.
He only watched it, it's not like he created it. This is cancel culture overreaction. People acting like the women were assaulted just because of deep fake, wtf
I feel bad for his wife. Having her on stream was cringe and not even mentioning her on the tweet.
don't pursuit producers. pursuit consumers.
fear guides consumption.
What bothers me is that this entire conversation is filled with half truths. I don't watch this, nor any of the above streamers to be completely honest, but why not have a sober talk about the actual and complete truth and then say it is still bad? There are many times each and every one of these streamers have been thirst trapping men, no matter how light it is (all over youtube). Or be truthful about exposure brings in costumers for onlyfans girls. That is genuinely the only thing that kinda is annoying, I get that it is horrible, but to act like these kind of people just appeared from nowhere bothering women whom have in no way "lightly thirst trapped men", it is simply not the truth. I do hope they make it the law to not use 3d render of them or w/e they call it, but what genuinely bothers me, is how weak all of this is. If people genuinely talked about it with no BS, I think the results would be way better.
Rather than act like twitch borderline pushing naked women on literal twitch users which are not that old, would never be a problem (no offense, but I still do not understand how that is fine, even in this era where there is more of a "sacrifice men for women" deal going on, weird how women were just allowed to push porn to literal teenagers...only problem I have here). Or that these women have not repeatedly tried to pull in certain viewerships many times, over their careers. Again, not excusing any of this or even giving any level of points to the other side, it is horrible either way, but dusting that off, just seems dishonest and a waste of time since it will be the first thing everyone thinks about men and women "yeah but these women are clearly trying to....(you get the idea)"...And needs to be answered honestly, or people will not talk about it, but it will be beyond clearly in the back of everyones minds men and women. And the push back will be BS, since they believe you are BS'ing and acting like these women are borderline entering every stream with religious clothes/topics/never thirst trapping.....you get the idea....Just be direct, and say regardless of the literal first thing everyone would clearly mention in groups, it is still
At the end of the day, these people's jobs are to get views. Why won't they have an honest discussion? Because controversy is like the number 1 thing that produces views. Did Atrioc do it on purpose for views? Almost definitely not. But will all the other content creators say controversial shit and farm views off of the situation? Absolutey so lol. Asmon is a WoW streamer who "reacted" to the Johhny Depp trial lol. This guys a reality TV star basically.
9:44 shoutout to the guy who only watches last of s p2 prn