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@@sakashimayokoshimahapofusagari Yup and that's exactly what Knee said too. Nina has always been on the stronger side of characters, but demands quite a bit which means that dedicated specialists shine with her.
@@taco_senseishe doesn’t require much, she has some of the fastest jab strings in the game plus gun strings that push you to the wall and buffed chain throws.
Idk what they're smoking. I've been a King main since 3, he's stronger than he's ever been in any previous Tekken. I think I'd put him right outside top 5, but the argument definitely can be made he's top 5. DF2 being 13f now and ffn2 being +7 is ridiculous and covered his main weaknesses he had from 7.
@@lmCobraTate Jun, drag, feng, lee, xy is better than him tho. That makes him outside of top 5. He's up there with the likes of dvj, victor. You seem to want him in the top 5 desperately.
As a king player idk why people think his heat smash is fair that shit hits for more than rage arts and forces a mix on block. I will honestly take a bunch of nerfs for king as long as they buff his backdash its so ass lol
i like how you leave space for nuance in your assessment. not too worried about outright calling stuff broken to be controversial or anything, just a pro’s thoughts on his experience with these characters playing the game. good vid
About Bryan 1+2,2 into heat burst launch: It‘s super weird and seems unintentional. If you set the practice dummy to techroll right, it will avoid the heat burst every time. But if you mash tech roll button after getting hit by 1+2, 2 you only avoid it sometimes. Seems to be a very specific timing to the tech roll or something.
Only thing about this tier list that affects all players universally, is Dragunov having his own tier lmao. It's true in the green ranks and all the way to the top.
13:30 about Lars’ demon flip, be aware that this happens also with wake up option with spring kick. In T7 you can go under that, but now it has something that stops you to do that, so it’s an universal mechanic.
Je suis le joueur de drag que tu as vu au MIXUP 2023 , sérieux oui drag est au top dans T8 mais putain quasi 5 ans de galère avec lui dans T7 , il avais plus rien sur la fin , ça fait du bien de le voir comme ça.
All those people arguing about Drag is wild "Just duck and punish" like do they not know what a 50/50 is? The fact the other player in that clip had to guess the mix up or just die after being hit with 1 combo is fucking insane amounts of damage.
Hearing your King take was refreshing... I succeeded in getting my friend into Tekken with me (he's started with Tekken 8 and I only played a bit of Tekken 7 prior) and he's already a higher rank than me, but he plays King so I don't feel as bad lol
@@GDtornado How is it an excuse? King players just win by getting 2 mixups and a heatsmash, because his damage is too high. Nah man this character takes away so much options for you and forces you to play perfect defense.
as a reina player i've really been feeling her getting stuck simply due to having to always take massive risks in order to mixup and generally for alot less reward
You don't, you have good mids, good + and good throws, so you don't need to use hellsweep that much but when you do you're very threatening, and you have so much options that you have constant mental +frames. Safe lowcruch, slow but good high rush, good punishment, good movement. She's hella good, and perfect right now, hope they won't change her 🙏
@@jetaime4431 Yea people don't realize shes more than just ff2 mixups and pressure. Poking around with her is way more effective once you reach a certain rank
i mean you aren't wrong when speaking on her mental game but simply due to the amount of people playing her once i got into ruler ranks basically nobody was unfamiliar with the matchup. which is honestly a good thing to expernece for once as ai played alot of low tiers in other games but the thing ive experinced is that the risk reward for her is a bit scewed when going for alot of mix especially in comparison to other characters. reina is def more than ff2 mix but its a massive part of the gameplan. i def think shes strong but it's just really annoying to have to take these big risky hellsweeps and launch punishable lows in order to ACTUALLY open someone up. her throws are good to make people duck but the situations where they're useful are when people are going to duck anyways post wr4 and heatsmash/ post sentai. and once we got you ducking her reward is high ONE time with heat dash but post that it takes one CRISPY hopkick to get a punish worth anything on duckers apart from 3+4 of course@@jetaime4431
the problem i get is that it almost feels lik i need to get a crapton of smaller wins in order to make a gameplan where i need multiple guesses to go right in order for it to even start. Reina can def run people over but thats just people who mash once patience and defense come into play i really struggle ngl if you got tips im down it just sucks sometimes especially when others have alot less risk with crazy reward@@jetaime4431
king being able to cancel/block on jaguar sprint is OP now, but I think they should just make it to where its only applicable to F 3+4 (Jaguar sprint Raw) not on blocked heat smash and not on uf3+4 on hit. Jaguar sprint is very easy to deal with, the only concern you have with it really is the RKO or the 1 or 3 option, (nobody uses 4 in my experience at least) with his RKO being 23f its very easy to react to and when he does do it after jaguar sprint you can see sparks coming out of his hands, so its not as good as a 50/50 tool as one might think.
something I think is wild and I'd I'm genuinely curious as to why its like this but kaz and devil jin share a lot of moves but DJ's are wayy better his lasers are unblockable, Kaz armor explosion is only in heat while Djs is his parry/counter tool and usable outside of heat. I'm just curious as to why that is and wondering if someone more familiar with Tekkens overall balance plan could explain this?
kaz used to have good 50/50 and strong low punishment but bad poking. he didnt have good strings or mid pokes which he does have in t8. dj used to have slightly less good 50/50 and no 13f launching low punish. but he had beter poking tools n an actual panick move. in this game? idk kaz is kind of more all around with him having ff2 and decent strings. DJ got a bunch of things that patch up the small weaknesses he used to have. they are alot more similar in this game i think
I think also what stops Jin being top tier in this game is two things. Zen Stance is a lot weaker in Tekken 8 compared to Tekken 7, the frame trap is weaker, the mixup is slower and weaker and the power crush is horribly bad because its so slow it can be jabbed and then ducked. The other big reason is Jin is straight up the weakest character in the game with heat. He literally gets nothing in heat, Omen is good at the wall but gets very little reward and in neutral Omen is trolling, half the time when you parry with Omen the parry hitbox is so small it wiffs and they punish you with a launcher for you using the parry well, its so weak youre better to never use it. Compare that to other characters strong mixups and buffed moves in heat.
The raven issue is just learning his back stance. But ravens heat move is lovely . i love backing up blocking then when they run at me launching my shadow clones 😂😂
@@NurtoriasTheNurtastichell sweep is also launch punishable and jins hellsweep doesnt lead to a launcher like devil jins only on certain stages, doesnt lead to good oki or vortex, doesnt hit grounded and doesnt high crush. In its current state, rarely youll use hellsweep over d+2. Theres just too much utility in d+2. Fast, ch launcher that high crushes, gives good frames on hit, not launch punishable against most characters and hits grounded.
I agree about Nina's damage output in her combos being high, which I'm happy for, because that has always been the essence of what makes Nina strong since Tekken 3...until they nerfed her in recent Tekken games. However, I don't understand using Nina's d3,4,3 in the argument for her being S-tier. Yes, the 3rd hit can no longer be side stepped/walked, which is a buff that I'm happy for, but the 2nd hit is still easily duckable and launchable, which some high level players have trained themselves to do on reaction. The alternative mixup to the 2nd hit, d3,2 does minimal damage on hit and no longer launches, which is a nerf. So, no, it doesn't make sense to include her d3,4,3 in an argument for Nina being S-tier. The move is almost useless on high level, especially with d3,2 being nerfed. Also, I don't believe that her f2,1,4 string is hit confirmable. If it is, it's extremely difficult to hit confirm that, which makes it impractical. I would like to know some more reasons to include her in S-tier. I don't see her being S-tier at all. Maybe A+ tier, but not S-tier. Her pokes have been overrated since like forever. She's easily steppable/walkable to her left or your right, which makes her have to slow down her gameplay and risk being counter hit with quick moves when she goes for her homing moves.
laws dss was always good. To go into dss after certain moves you had to press , > and then you would go into dss. Now you can go into dss by just pressing > after certain moves so he is beginner friendly now
This is my first tekken and I picked Asuka as my main. After playing with other characters and playing a bunch of ranked I definitely feel she’s just not doing that much imo.
Agreed with everything, Nina definitely slept on. Xiaoyu is weird I haven't seen the broken stuff personally yet, and her only really good low is out of HYP so I have the feeling she is overrated. In heat you have to weather the storm a bit but it's manageable. In the neutral you can keep her out as usual. Lee B3,3 and wall damage wasn't mentioned :p I wasn't aware his movement was that bad, definitely need to test more. Like I did notice Lars backdash being better for example but in actual situations (evading with backdash) I don't really find cases where it's applicable except in the neutral where I feel it's not that big of a diff in the end. As opposed to Alisa's and Dragunov's backdash that are truly way better because you can evade & it feels insane in the neutral
@@battlerushiromiya205she’s easy to punish and don’t have many strong lows and has short reach. Most of the times to beat her, you just need to space and punish. She’s the easiest character to beat when you know her kit. Most players refuse to learn her kit and eat stuff they shouldn’t most the time. She isn’t that good in the end.
@@Cal3000 Oh god here we go " just learn the matchup bro" your wrong on so many levels i cant even be asked to explain since you just made up random facts "she's easiest to beat when you learn her kit" no she isn't keep doing mental gymnastics cant wait till she's nerfed
Pour nina, elle peut egalement enlever la barre grise avec ses chaine de choppe ou b1+2, et elle est tres complete (des homing a différentes vitesse pour varier les timing, des counter sur chaque frame (10f, 12f, 13f, 14, un jeu de choppe complet, de tres bon outils pour adapter ses combo...)
Love hearing the thoughts, super inflated runtime due to him having to spoonfeed chat the most basic premise of the conversation- "it's not final yet, it's not final yet, it's not final yet."
Yeah that's about par for course for Raven, always been about beating the player and being terrified by the rare people who play him like there's a million bucks on the line.
My mains in Tekken are Raven(I mainly use Raven because he resemble Naruto characters in his unorthodox fighting style approach and because he's very unique and authentic, he's my trump card back from T5) and I admit it that If you don't adapt to his matchup he can definitely be annoying to fight against him. Hwoarang and Jin( these two are like the symbol of Yin&Yang☯️ in my eyes, they were my mains when I was starting to play Tekken 3 for the first time many many years ago, I also like it to use Eddy Gordo as well because of his Capoeira style of fighting). My List of annoying characters that I don't like to encounter/face are: Jun, Victor, Azucena, Dragunov, Xiaoyu, King, Devil Jin, Reina(sometimes), Yoshimitsu, Feng, Jack8, Nina, Alisa and Lili. So almost the entire roster I know... 🤷🏻♂️😅🙆🏻♂️✌️
As a king main they should make his heat smash do 50 damage. They should lower the amount of damage some of his jaguar sprint do, that’s to justify being able to stop and block. They should nerf hjs damage for counter hit back one. They should nerf a little bit of damage from down forward 2. They should remove some of his guaranteed kicks after certain throws. They should nerf ffn2 to knly give plus 1 on hit and nerf the counter hit damage to 38. Finally the they should buff muscle armor 🤣🤣🤣
kazuya is literally the same character he only got hellsweep and electrics to compensate nothing else... no poking , they even removed his sidestep 3 that i used to punish wakeup kicks because i can not use electric for fu**** everything since is a high
imo asuka’s damage isn’t crazy, she mostly gets 67 off of df2 in the open or 72 if you can land df2 into f,f4, which is similar to what a lot of other characters get. her wall carry is nothing special and her wall combo with and without tornado is slightly below average
Any Nina mains here? How does her f+2,1,4 launch? I tried every possible extension I couldn’t connect it, is this very time restrictive? Also I’m shocked he forgot to mention her 11frame heat engager 😂 I think out of all the S tiers here she deserves the most because nobody plays her and she’s very execution heavy.
@@Cawe_D yeah exactly. That's another thing that Super Akouma fails to mention, and the fact that hit confirming f2,1,4 is not really practical. The Nina player would pretty much have to know you're gonna get hit by f2 on CH, because the hit confirmation window is so small.
3:20 btw everything after breaking step/zen on block gets beaten by dickjab (except after bf2-3). Tbh can't decide if zen got stronger or weaker since while options themselves are overall better, the canceling us much harder and you also can't cancel it into a dash Btw it's hilarious how Nina and Hworang players gaslighted us into thinking they're bad
King had no counterplay if you J Sprint and someone did rage art.... you just get blown up! Not anymore 😂 Im sorry Im 42 and Ive been maining King since Tekken 1 in Arcades so I finally can have some true fun! I do agree hes S though
@@theshillpill6937he does have some crazy damage tho let’s be real but I think he needs that to counteract all of his downside being a big body character and all
@@guts1952 Reina has 80-90 combo damage with no heat. Most I’ve seen with Jack is around mid 70. If he has damage that is higher than what it should be, for a character that is big bodied and has the worst sidestep, then yes, I can see why people would be complaining, but his damage seems to be balanced.
@@theshillpill6937 he does get crazy damage at the wall you get around 80-90 on wall with just the regular bnb with decent carry and you can win most fights in 2 interaction (grab,launch) per round if they don’t play it safe
The problem is that ewgf can't be buffered so to launch a -15 move with ewgf you have to start the input almost as soon as you recover. Unfortunately the blockstun is different for every rage art. Even the best Kaz players in the world don't regularly attempt to punish RA with ewgf. So unless you lab when to electric after everyone's rage art your best punish is 2+4 grab into df2.
@@p-brane8251 we need an easy launcher we can not use electric for absolutely everything because sometimes we need to punish with a mid , or we need his old df1,2 back
@@Divin3Valorwdym? Kazuya combos are able to be consistent done while lee can whiff any second considering how many 1 frames he has in almost every combo
@@guts1952 You are taking the term consistent to a whole different meaning. That’s human error bud, literally Kazuya’s combos just don’t connect at times even when you do it properly.
You actually didn’t talk about Lee that much. Would you mind giving more thoughts on the char im trying to figure out who to main. I know of Lee as a keep out, counter hit char but hearing he has bottom tier movement as a defensive character seems strange
I didn't talk much about him here because he's my main so I talk a lot about him on stream already. I don't think of him as a defensive character, he's super good at rushdown especially with B3,3 now. His keepout remains top tier and can a lot of the time, make up for his bad movement. He has every kind of counter hit and evasion when needed with D2, ff4 and d3. He's great fun and worth playing but he's not gonna be Dragunov anytime soon
@@SuperAkouma ty for the thoughtful response, I really appreciate it. I just want perspective/what to expect out of a character bc I don't know all these things---not easy wins
I do think Devil Jin’s hell sweep isn’t as strong as people think. Everyone launches with it all the time when it’s majority recoverable damage. Definitely a game winner but not as useful until the second half of the round
About Xiaoyu: 1) She has not a -12 lauching sweep, it's -12 low poke. To become a laucher u need to charge it. And when charging u can be interrupted even if u have +17. And if u see Xiaoyu charging her stance - just block low or do a low parry. 2) F21 into stace is not + on block - it's lauch punishable. Almost every 15 frames kicks, elbows, knees etc will interrupt any of her moves and she can't blocking in Hypnotist stance. And also it's not high-high, first hit is mid - but yeah the second hit is jailed. 3) She is still vulnerable to SS. In T8 she is even more vulnerable cause Harada took away her homing laucher. Just SSL and guard crouching in standart stance and SSR and guard crouching in backturn or any other stances.
No f21 is not launch punishable in stance, it’s nuetral and can be canceled into a block for any launcher they throw out. She is not vulnerable to sidestep due to her being able to realign with any transition. Phoenix realigns. Cali roll realigns, as well as back turn sidestep realigns. She’s absolutely busted
1) it's a -12 launching sweep. Stop. Also just block low ? She has a safe knockdown/wallsplating mid from the same situation 2) you can't just press anything since there's a follow-up and also she can just block 3) If she needs to track me she will, realigning or changing your offense to catch sidesteps is not hard. Saying just sidestep is terrible advice against any character, it is never that simple
@@SuperAkouma 1) U need to make 3 steps in Hypno to make this poke a laucher. If your opponent let you do that, you don't need a laucher - you can kill him with any string of any character. Even with her heat activated u need 1 step to make and it's easy to interrupt. For example Feng's b4 will interrupt Hypno 3 with one step even if Xiaoyu has +9. If you has a wall behind your back while fighting Xiaoyu - you are dead. In any Tekken game Xiaoyu was one of the best wall pressurer (maybe Brayan is scarier but she is no doubt ton 5). And Hypno 2 is stepable on both sides. If Xiaoyu activates her heat and go into the mix, so just SSR her Hypno stance 2 and then do a low parry. It can beat most of her options. 2) It's a guessing. If there was always an OS on any situation - Xiaoyu would be a garbage character. But if you try to press, hopkick is the best option you have. 3) Every character can realign. It's not a valid argument cause I also may argue that SWL against Kazuya is useless - he can realign with crouchdashes and EWGF me. If the character doesn't have a threatening homing move or his key moves don't trecking well on both sides, he is vulnerable to SS.
@@animes_latestamvs653 f21 into stance is -2 on block but Hypno cancel is too slow. If you try to cancel the stance, even 23 frame punisher will hit you. 1d2 into the stance has the same framedata. You can't just go into Hypnotist and mix people without the risk to be launched. But without stance transition it is safe. Realignment is not an ideal option. Kazuya's wavedash also realigns but we can't say that Kazuya is not vulnerable to SWL. If your key moves don't track to the weak side and you don't have a threatening homing, you are vulnerable to sidesteps.
as a lee main, i was shocked to see him in A+. i feel like most people shit on him, cuz hes kinda complicated, and not nearly as busted as lots of other characters LOL
Some people in chat desperately trying to argue dragunov isn't top 1 after being handfed a clip of him 100-0ing someone in basically one combo is crazy to me. Like damn, I wonder who's been abusing him for free ranks lmaoo
Nina is flying under the radar. SA knows her true power since he plays against Jodd and warningispam so much 😅
yeah ive been saying nina has been underrated even in 7 but she just requires alot of work which is why we dont see her too much
@@sakashimayokoshimahapofusagari Yup and that's exactly what Knee said too. Nina has always been on the stronger side of characters, but demands quite a bit which means that dedicated specialists shine with her.
Ninas are scary, i just dunno how to fight her yet
My thoughts exactly. Arslan cause here weak I believe. Probably capping
@@taco_senseishe doesn’t require much, she has some of the fastest jab strings in the game plus gun strings that push you to the wall and buffed chain throws.
King mains in chat desperately trying to downplay lmfao
Idk what they're smoking. I've been a King main since 3, he's stronger than he's ever been in any previous Tekken. I think I'd put him right outside top 5, but the argument definitely can be made he's top 5. DF2 being 13f now and ffn2 being +7 is ridiculous and covered his main weaknesses he had from 7.
@@YiddishDancingClown “right outside top 5” 😂😂😂
@@lmCobraTate he tried to sneak that in ☠️☠️
@@lmCobraTate me putting him there isn't downplaying, I still think he's S tier, but characters like Drag and Ling are better than him right now.
@@lmCobraTate Jun, drag, feng, lee, xy is better than him tho. That makes him outside of top 5. He's up there with the likes of dvj, victor. You seem to want him in the top 5 desperately.
As a king player idk why people think his heat smash is fair that shit hits for more than rage arts and forces a mix on block. I will honestly take a bunch of nerfs for king as long as they buff his backdash its so ass lol
Use his back spring move problem solve
@@tryingtochangemyways5074 jaguar step is fun but I like Korean backdashing it looks cooler
@@SharpheI agree. Plus if u do jag step u can be punished
Nah don’t nerf king
@@jaapanui yeah it's a good tool I use it forward for low crush
i like how you leave space for nuance in your assessment. not too worried about outright calling stuff broken to be controversial or anything, just a pro’s thoughts on his experience with these characters playing the game. good vid
About Bryan 1+2,2 into heat burst launch: It‘s super weird and seems unintentional. If you set the practice dummy to techroll right, it will avoid the heat burst every time. But if you mash tech roll button after getting hit by 1+2, 2 you only avoid it sometimes. Seems to be a very specific timing to the tech roll or something.
Great video, man. Claudio back 1 could be his only move and he would be around B tier I feel like
Clickbait thumbnail... should have been "The only SUPER tier list"
I wish I thought of that lol
@@SuperAkouma agreed, f hwoarang lol
That implies the need for non-super lists. Which is false. We only need this one list. This is the one.
@@ParodyAccount_cope
SUPER AKOUMA IS BACKKKK AYEEEEEE
As a new player and a Zafina main, thank you for giving me hope
Only thing about this tier list that affects all players universally, is Dragunov having his own tier lmao. It's true in the green ranks and all the way to the top.
I see so many damn Drags it hurts.
The up play on Zafina is wild lol
Love the thumbnail!
lol I just saw the thumbnail for this, nice one 🤣
Listening to chat's rebuttals is wild. X player makes x character look crazy. Orlynao
13:30 about Lars’ demon flip, be aware that this happens also with wake up option with spring kick. In T7 you can go under that, but now it has something that stops you to do that, so it’s an universal mechanic.
I know it's a universal mechanic but he's abusing the hell out of it lol
Je suis le joueur de drag que tu as vu au MIXUP 2023 , sérieux oui drag est au top dans T8 mais putain quasi 5 ans de galère avec lui dans T7 , il avais plus rien sur la fin , ça fait du bien de le voir comme ça.
King doesnt need backdash because he has that jaguar step anyway, just spin away
You can get hit easily spinning backwards but I get the idea
@@MrDyran21 kings gameplay revolves around getting close to setup throws anyway. Its the opponent thats trying to run from you as a king player LOL
All those people arguing about Drag is wild "Just duck and punish" like do they not know what a 50/50 is? The fact the other player in that clip had to guess the mix up or just die after being hit with 1 combo is fucking insane amounts of damage.
Hearing your King take was refreshing... I succeeded in getting my friend into Tekken with me (he's started with Tekken 8 and I only played a bit of Tekken 7 prior) and he's already a higher rank than me, but he plays King so I don't feel as bad lol
Thats a little bit of a excuse. I play mainly steve and lars and my steve is better and a mighty ruler so it can be done if u train properly
@@GDtornado How is it an excuse? King players just win by getting 2 mixups and a heatsmash, because his damage is too high. Nah man this character takes away so much options for you and forces you to play perfect defense.
as a reina player i've really been feeling her getting stuck simply due to having to always take massive risks in order to mixup and generally for alot less reward
You don't, you have good mids, good + and good throws, so you don't need to use hellsweep that much but when you do you're very threatening, and you have so much options that you have constant mental +frames. Safe lowcruch, slow but good high rush, good punishment, good movement. She's hella good, and perfect right now, hope they won't change her 🙏
@@jetaime4431 Yea people don't realize shes more than just ff2 mixups and pressure. Poking around with her is way more effective once you reach a certain rank
i mean you aren't wrong when speaking on her mental game but simply due to the amount of people playing her once i got into ruler ranks basically nobody was unfamiliar with the matchup. which is honestly a good thing to expernece for once as ai played alot of low tiers in other games but the thing ive experinced is that the risk reward for her is a bit scewed when going for alot of mix especially in comparison to other characters. reina is def more than ff2 mix but its a massive part of the gameplan. i def think shes strong but it's just really annoying to have to take these big risky hellsweeps and launch punishable lows in order to ACTUALLY open someone up. her throws are good to make people duck but the situations where they're useful are when people are going to duck anyways post wr4 and heatsmash/ post sentai. and once we got you ducking her reward is high ONE time with heat dash but post that it takes one CRISPY hopkick to get a punish worth anything on duckers apart from 3+4 of course@@jetaime4431
the problem i get is that it almost feels lik i need to get a crapton of smaller wins in order to make a gameplan where i need multiple guesses to go right in order for it to even start. Reina can def run people over but thats just people who mash once patience and defense come into play i really struggle ngl if you got tips im down it just sucks sometimes especially when others have alot less risk with crazy reward@@jetaime4431
Stop relying on ff2, it's a great move but you have to dig deeper to see the safer more rewarding options
king being able to cancel/block on jaguar sprint is OP now, but I think they should just make it to where its only applicable to F 3+4 (Jaguar sprint Raw) not on blocked heat smash and not on uf3+4 on hit. Jaguar sprint is very easy to deal with, the only concern you have with it really is the RKO or the 1 or 3 option, (nobody uses 4 in my experience at least) with his RKO being 23f its very easy to react to and when he does do it after jaguar sprint you can see sparks coming out of his hands, so its not as good as a 50/50 tool as one might think.
This tier list is accurate
something I think is wild and I'd I'm genuinely curious as to why its like this but kaz and devil jin share a lot of moves but DJ's are wayy better his lasers are unblockable, Kaz armor explosion is only in heat while Djs is his parry/counter tool and usable outside of heat. I'm just curious as to why that is and wondering if someone more familiar with Tekkens overall balance plan could explain this?
there is no explanation. these game developers just do shit without any purpose at all many of different times over and over again and again LOL.
kaz used to have good 50/50 and strong low punishment but bad poking. he didnt have good strings or mid pokes which he does have in t8.
dj used to have slightly less good 50/50 and no 13f launching low punish. but he had beter poking tools n an actual panick move.
in this game? idk kaz is kind of more all around with him having ff2 and decent strings. DJ got a bunch of things that patch up the small weaknesses he used to have. they are alot more similar in this game i think
enjoy ur trip/training in japan🎉
I think also what stops Jin being top tier in this game is two things. Zen Stance is a lot weaker in Tekken 8 compared to Tekken 7, the frame trap is weaker, the mixup is slower and weaker and the power crush is horribly bad because its so slow it can be jabbed and then ducked. The other big reason is Jin is straight up the weakest character in the game with heat. He literally gets nothing in heat, Omen is good at the wall but gets very little reward and in neutral Omen is trolling, half the time when you parry with Omen the parry hitbox is so small it wiffs and they punish you with a launcher for you using the parry well, its so weak youre better to never use it. Compare that to other characters strong mixups and buffed moves in heat.
Bryan entersthe chat. Mans supposed to be a counterhit goat
The raven issue is just learning his back stance. But ravens heat move is lovely . i love backing up blocking then when they run at me launching my shadow clones 😂😂
You did my boy claudio dirty
As a claudio main, sigh...Shadow, thanks for holding it down
Jin doesnt need a hellsweep when he has d+2
Nuh. It launches only on ch. Hellsweep used to launh on normal hit in t7
@@NurtoriasTheNurtastichell sweep is also launch punishable and jins hellsweep doesnt lead to a launcher like devil jins only on certain stages, doesnt lead to good oki or vortex, doesnt hit grounded and doesnt high crush. In its current state, rarely youll use hellsweep over d+2.
Theres just too much utility in d+2. Fast, ch launcher that high crushes, gives good frames on hit, not launch punishable against most characters and hits grounded.
Touche. But I still use hellsweep sometimes just as mix up for a round secure, would be nicer if it launched on hit tho
No lol@@NurtoriasTheNurtastic
I agree about Nina's damage output in her combos being high, which I'm happy for, because that has always been the essence of what makes Nina strong since Tekken 3...until they nerfed her in recent Tekken games. However, I don't understand using Nina's d3,4,3 in the argument for her being S-tier. Yes, the 3rd hit can no longer be side stepped/walked, which is a buff that I'm happy for, but the 2nd hit is still easily duckable and launchable, which some high level players have trained themselves to do on reaction. The alternative mixup to the 2nd hit, d3,2 does minimal damage on hit and no longer launches, which is a nerf. So, no, it doesn't make sense to include her d3,4,3 in an argument for Nina being S-tier. The move is almost useless on high level, especially with d3,2 being nerfed. Also, I don't believe that her f2,1,4 string is hit confirmable. If it is, it's extremely difficult to hit confirm that, which makes it impractical.
I would like to know some more reasons to include her in S-tier. I don't see her being S-tier at all. Maybe A+ tier, but not S-tier. Her pokes have been overrated since like forever. She's easily steppable/walkable to her left or your right, which makes her have to slow down her gameplay and risk being counter hit with quick moves when she goes for her homing moves.
Your absolutely right about Jin he's just ok and predictable
I thought it was just me when I felt like I was fighting a raid boss every time I fought against leroy(as Steve)
laws dss was always good. To go into dss after certain moves you had to press , > and then you would go into dss. Now you can go into dss by just pressing > after certain moves so he is beginner friendly now
As a kazuya main, I’m looking at a watch waiting for my retaliation.
This is my first tekken and I picked Asuka as my main. After playing with other characters and playing a bunch of ranked I definitely feel she’s just not doing that much imo.
Agreed with everything, Nina definitely slept on. Xiaoyu is weird I haven't seen the broken stuff personally yet, and her only really good low is out of HYP so I have the feeling she is overrated. In heat you have to weather the storm a bit but it's manageable. In the neutral you can keep her out as usual.
Lee B3,3 and wall damage wasn't mentioned :p I wasn't aware his movement was that bad, definitely need to test more.
Like I did notice Lars backdash being better for example but in actual situations (evading with backdash) I don't really find cases where it's applicable except in the neutral where I feel it's not that big of a diff in the end.
As opposed to Alisa's and Dragunov's backdash that are truly way better because you can evade & it feels insane in the neutral
Xiaoyu is broken and is way too safe
@@battlerushiromiya205she’s easy to punish and don’t have many strong lows and has short reach. Most of the times to beat her, you just need to space and punish. She’s the easiest character to beat when you know her kit. Most players refuse to learn her kit and eat stuff they shouldn’t most the time. She isn’t that good in the end.
@@Cal3000 Oh god here we go " just learn the matchup bro" your wrong on so many levels i cant even be asked to explain since you just made up random facts "she's easiest to beat when you learn her kit" no she isn't keep doing mental gymnastics cant wait till she's nerfed
@@Cal3000 I took the bait well done " easy to punish" i feel like a fool for taking that serious. I give it to you
@@battlerushiromiya205 name anything you struggle with against her and I can tell you how to easily to beat or counter it.
Pour nina, elle peut egalement enlever la barre grise avec ses chaine de choppe ou b1+2, et elle est tres complete (des homing a différentes vitesse pour varier les timing, des counter sur chaque frame (10f, 12f, 13f, 14, un jeu de choppe complet, de tres bon outils pour adapter ses combo...)
Ty_tk just confirmed that Bryan taunt is not guaranteed after heat dash
Taunt is 28 frames, heat dash is +17
He talked about heat dash into the wall where it does the wall crush animation
@@lasadil2865 oh youre right. it seems the taunt is guaranteed
hey black, do you have a link to ty_tk confirming ? or was it on stream
You can jump jab to avoid the taunt but this loses to immediate B4.
Asuka is above c tier most ppl I play on ranked just don't know how to use her for some reason
Kazuya seems like he is strictly as good as the player uses him.. if that makes sense he is kinda difficult
Love me some supercoomer takes
Hhaha that thumbnail man
Jun is a monster dude this is broken his use power of Love
Love hearing the thoughts, super inflated runtime due to him having to spoonfeed chat the most basic premise of the conversation- "it's not final yet, it's not final yet, it's not final yet."
Solid tier list
Make a video on Steve’s downfall from SS+ 🎉to B tier
I think there's better people to make that video but if no one does I'll keep it in mind
Jack 8 in c-tier tickles my brain
Can you make a video on doing kbd on hitbox for tekken 8?
I plan to do some Tekken 8 Hit Box videos but in the mean time you can watch the Tekken 7 Hit Box videos I made, not much as changed
Yeah that's about par for course for Raven, always been about beating the player and being terrified by the rare people who play him like there's a million bucks on the line.
thank you for the great video, but what safe low that has been nerfed for jack? can anyone tell?
FC db1 and there was another low kick, can't remember the input
Law felt good playing him. I kinda figured he'd be that high. Agreed, fuck hwarang. I don't like him either
My mains in Tekken are Raven(I mainly use Raven because he resemble Naruto characters in his unorthodox fighting style approach and because he's very unique and authentic, he's my trump card back from T5) and I admit it that If you don't adapt to his matchup he can definitely be annoying to fight against him. Hwoarang and Jin( these two are like the symbol of Yin&Yang☯️ in my eyes, they were my mains when I was starting to play Tekken 3 for the first time many many years ago, I also like it to use Eddy Gordo as well because of his Capoeira style of fighting). My List of annoying characters that I don't like to encounter/face are: Jun, Victor, Azucena, Dragunov, Xiaoyu, King, Devil Jin, Reina(sometimes), Yoshimitsu, Feng, Jack8, Nina, Alisa and Lili. So almost the entire roster I know... 🤷🏻♂️😅🙆🏻♂️✌️
Jack is interesting. Seen people put him in S and all the way down in bottom rank
Jack is A for Anakin who makes him shine like an ultimate weapon
As a king main they should make his heat smash do 50 damage. They should lower the amount of damage some of his jaguar sprint do, that’s to justify being able to stop and block. They should nerf hjs damage for counter hit back one. They should nerf a little bit of damage from down forward 2. They should remove some of his guaranteed kicks after certain throws. They should nerf ffn2 to knly give plus 1 on hit and nerf the counter hit damage to 38. Finally the they should buff muscle armor 🤣🤣🤣
kazuya is literally the same character he only got hellsweep and electrics to compensate nothing else... no poking , they even removed his sidestep 3 that i used to punish wakeup kicks because i can not use electric for fu**** everything since is a high
Tekken 8. The game where we all downplay the characters we play lol
you can do uf1 against bryans heatdash into taunt
imo asuka’s damage isn’t crazy, she mostly gets 67 off of df2 in the open or 72 if you can land df2 into f,f4, which is similar to what a lot of other characters get. her wall carry is nothing special and her wall combo with and without tornado is slightly below average
I feel like this this tierlist is very close to reality and i think the devs should work on maki g all characters A or a+ level
Any Nina mains here? How does her f+2,1,4 launch? I tried every possible extension I couldn’t connect it, is this very time restrictive?
Also I’m shocked he forgot to mention her 11frame heat engager 😂 I think out of all the S tiers here she deserves the most because nobody plays her and she’s very execution heavy.
It depends on the region, I run into so many Nina's bro it's crazy
A micro dash into d4,1 allows her to combo off CH f2,1,4. The timing is very strict.
@@shaolinprince777 I tried d4,1 it’s brutally time restrictive
@@Cawe_D yeah exactly. That's another thing that Super Akouma fails to mention, and the fact that hit confirming f2,1,4 is not really practical. The Nina player would pretty much have to know you're gonna get hit by f2 on CH, because the hit confirmation window is so small.
@@shaolinprince777 I agree. Not gonna lie he pretty much made her look like OP, which is far from truth.
reina is S and the rest very accurate
"The only correct".... now that's courage. ;)
Kazuya is c tier jack in c tier is insane he’s at least A
Reina demons paw is 12 frames
Kazuya is definitely not on the same level as Jin, knock it off!!
That's what I'm saying
3:20 btw everything after breaking step/zen on block gets beaten by dickjab (except after bf2-3). Tbh can't decide if zen got stronger or weaker since while options themselves are overall better, the canceling us much harder and you also can't cancel it into a dash
Btw it's hilarious how Nina and Hworang players gaslighted us into thinking they're bad
30:25 YUP THIS
Ling this high up but barely anyone plays her, all i fight is Kazuya, ling is super rare to fight against, i play her myself but i suck.
There is no devil Kazuya? T5 was my last serious tekken. Thinking of trying this one.
Kazuya can turn into devil kazuya mid round
"Alisa got no strings" Meanwhile Alisa - ub4, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 3+4, 3, 2, 2 😂
King had no counterplay if you J Sprint and someone did rage art.... you just get blown up! Not anymore 😂 Im sorry Im 42 and Ive been maining King since Tekken 1 in Arcades so I finally can have some true fun! I do agree hes S though
Bump Jack, Asuka, and Claudio to A tier and move Leroy to C tier and I would agree with this tier list completely.
But on your thumbnail you put panda In Dragonov tier so since I main her I was wondering if that was how you stood
The answer is in the video 🤝
why no panda in S?
They gave dragunov his own tier 2 games in a row
1:37 fc1?
Damnnn I thought Jack was around A tier. Everyone was hyping him up at the beginning of the game
Everyone calling for Jack damage nerfs too
@@theshillpill6937he does have some crazy damage tho let’s be real but I think he needs that to counteract all of his downside being a big body character and all
@@guts1952 Reina has 80-90 combo damage with no heat. Most I’ve seen with Jack is around mid 70. If he has damage that is higher than what it should be, for a character that is big bodied and has the worst sidestep, then yes, I can see why people would be complaining, but his damage seems to be balanced.
Jack is fine, they shouldn't touch him or give him a slight buff
@@theshillpill6937 he does get crazy damage at the wall you get around 80-90 on wall with just the regular bnb with decent carry and you can win most fights in 2 interaction (grab,launch) per round if they don’t play it safe
What is this thumbnail… Steve and bears in S+ tier?? 😂😂
How is Leroy above claudio
I just want to say Kazuya have no 15 launcher to punish a blocked rage art. (Think perfect electric can)
EWGF is possible no need for perfect PEWGF it's harder than other characters though
The problem is that ewgf can't be buffered so to launch a -15 move with ewgf you have to start the input almost as soon as you recover. Unfortunately the blockstun is different for every rage art. Even the best Kaz players in the world don't regularly attempt to punish RA with ewgf. So unless you lab when to electric after everyone's rage art your best punish is 2+4 grab into df2.
@@p-brane8251 we need an easy launcher we can not use electric for absolutely everything because sometimes we need to punish with a mid , or we need his old df1,2 back
@@foxsteve9937 what was so special about the old version?
Lee’s inconsistent combos are so frustrating to deal with. Especially his heat engage whiffing after WS2, 3
Try Kazuya’s combos
@@Divin3Valorwdym? Kazuya combos are able to be consistent done while lee can whiff any second considering how many 1 frames he has in almost every combo
@@guts1952 You are taking the term consistent to a whole different meaning. That’s human error bud, literally Kazuya’s combos just don’t connect at times even when you do it properly.
@@Divin3Valor Lee's combo after ws2,3 is still very inconsistent even in that meaning
@@Divin3Valorws 23 into heat burst will whiff regardless of timing
I play Lili so A is a good spot she is good but not broke
You actually didn’t talk about Lee that much. Would you mind giving more thoughts on the char im trying to figure out who to main.
I know of Lee as a keep out, counter hit char but hearing he has bottom tier movement as a defensive character seems strange
I didn't talk much about him here because he's my main so I talk a lot about him on stream already. I don't think of him as a defensive character, he's super good at rushdown especially with B3,3 now. His keepout remains top tier and can a lot of the time, make up for his bad movement. He has every kind of counter hit and evasion when needed with D2, ff4 and d3. He's great fun and worth playing but he's not gonna be Dragunov anytime soon
@@SuperAkouma ty for the thoughtful response, I really appreciate it. I just want perspective/what to expect out of a character bc I don't know all these things---not easy wins
Steve got killed 😂
I do think Devil Jin’s hell sweep isn’t as strong as people think. Everyone launches with it all the time when it’s majority recoverable damage. Definitely a game winner but not as useful until the second half of the round
The tekken community is a bunch of idiots with not understanding of the game
@@TheUnique69able surely you understand it a whole lot more the superakouma and a bunch of other Tekken players
@@exusiaii3691 yes I understand my main more than super akuma
@@TheUnique69ableI smell bias lol
I think their are 15 characters that can compete for top 5.
I agree
Nina is a monster, but zafina in anything but bottom is blasphemous lol
I just made a nina video about her being S tier yesterday aswell😂. This Teri list is "Super Akurate"
About Xiaoyu:
1) She has not a -12 lauching sweep, it's -12 low poke. To become a laucher u need to charge it. And when charging u can be interrupted even if u have +17.
And if u see Xiaoyu charging her stance - just block low or do a low parry.
2) F21 into stace is not + on block - it's lauch punishable. Almost every 15 frames kicks, elbows, knees etc will interrupt any of her moves and she can't blocking in Hypnotist stance.
And also it's not high-high, first hit is mid - but yeah the second hit is jailed.
3) She is still vulnerable to SS. In T8 she is even more vulnerable cause Harada took away her homing laucher. Just SSL and guard crouching in standart stance and SSR and guard crouching in backturn or any other stances.
No f21 is not launch punishable in stance, it’s nuetral and can be canceled into a block for any launcher they throw out.
She is not vulnerable to sidestep due to her being able to realign with any transition. Phoenix realigns. Cali roll realigns, as well as back turn sidestep realigns.
She’s absolutely busted
1) it's a -12 launching sweep. Stop. Also just block low ? She has a safe knockdown/wallsplating mid from the same situation
2) you can't just press anything since there's a follow-up and also she can just block
3) If she needs to track me she will, realigning or changing your offense to catch sidesteps is not hard. Saying just sidestep is terrible advice against any character, it is never that simple
Average Ling Downplayer:
@@SuperAkouma
1) U need to make 3 steps in Hypno to make this poke a laucher. If your opponent let you do that, you don't need a laucher - you can kill him with any string of any character.
Even with her heat activated u need 1 step to make and it's easy to interrupt. For example Feng's b4 will interrupt Hypno 3 with one step even if Xiaoyu has +9.
If you has a wall behind your back while fighting Xiaoyu - you are dead. In any Tekken game Xiaoyu was one of the best wall pressurer (maybe Brayan is scarier but she is no doubt ton 5).
And Hypno 2 is stepable on both sides. If Xiaoyu activates her heat and go into the mix, so just SSR her Hypno stance 2 and then do a low parry. It can beat most of her options.
2) It's a guessing. If there was always an OS on any situation - Xiaoyu would be a garbage character. But if you try to press, hopkick is the best option you have.
3) Every character can realign. It's not a valid argument cause I also may argue that SWL against Kazuya is useless - he can realign with crouchdashes and EWGF me.
If the character doesn't have a threatening homing move or his key moves don't trecking well on both sides, he is vulnerable to SS.
@@animes_latestamvs653
f21 into stance is -2 on block but Hypno cancel is too slow. If you try to cancel the stance, even 23 frame punisher will hit you. 1d2 into the stance has the same framedata. You can't just go into Hypnotist and mix people without the risk to be launched. But without stance transition it is safe.
Realignment is not an ideal option. Kazuya's wavedash also realigns but we can't say that Kazuya is not vulnerable to SWL. If your key moves don't track to the weak side and you don't have a threatening homing, you are vulnerable to sidesteps.
as a lee main, i was shocked to see him in A+. i feel like most people shit on him, cuz hes kinda complicated, and not nearly as busted as lots of other characters LOL
He has crazy ass strings
How about Eddy in a current state of the game? Also S tier?
I don't know yet but he's looking strong
Asuka mais forte que a Jun, certeza absoluta.
King is only really strong now bc throwing is much better in 8 than it was in 7. That’s all it is.
Some people in chat desperately trying to argue dragunov isn't top 1 after being handfed a clip of him 100-0ing someone in basically one combo is crazy to me. Like damn, I wonder who's been abusing him for free ranks lmaoo
Steve have new tech, now hes S/A imo
It’s not reliable at people ab poke you right before u do it
@@temiv2o222 if you do it fast you don't have time to df2 and it still puts them in danger if Steve decides not to
It's not that useful
I have literally never fought a Nina in this whole month.
Ive fought two and both sent me packing with my pants down and a daisy between my cheeks
You should hope it stays that way lmao
I don’t think there’s any c tier characters in this game
you forgot another tier above dragunov, the azucena tier
Drag is worse but she could've had her own tier under him for sure
Reina 💜 my princess
Cuck