If you mount the breadboard on thin metal you can dispense with the countersinking simply by screwing up through the metal into the bottom of the breadboard with short coarse-thread screws.
If you take the large drill bit that you're using to hand deburr, chuck it up into a drill and spin it backwards, it will deburr quickly without drilling into the board (much).
I can't imagine a quick fix the "bad" inserts that Julian shows in the video. They are made poorly and cannot be fixed. The difference between the two inserts he shows in this video is surprising.
Just to reiterate what has been said here before. The first thing to check is to see if the column numbers match up numerically. If they don't match up, but run in opposite number numerically, the board is likely junk with hard to connect points. So the board marking should be consistent so point 'B26" should not be debatable. More important is overall quality, and this is one item worth paying extra for. Not only ease of assembly, but the quality of their connectors. Nothing is more frustrating than spending time tracing down an intermittent problem than finding out that it was a tie point that lost its springiness after a couple of uses, and no longer holds the wire tightly.
You can get much easier wire insertion if you cut the wires with sharp 'scissor' type of cutters that cut by slicing - such as on high quality stripping tools.. and especially if you cut the wire on a slight diagonal. When people cut the wires using diagonal cutters, the wire is basically crushed in half - forming an end that's flared much like the shape of a hatchet blade
One evening I noticed that sometimes, breadboard work was impossible, sometimes it was just easy. Then I saw your previous video, after which I just ordered a batch from Pololu and threw out a bunch of my randos. My recent breadboard-mind-blown was realizing that the half-length ones have offset power holes, rather than lining up with the main holes. So you can't just drop a Digispark type board into them and have vcc and ground connected.
I abandoned the breadboard I got in my Arduino starter kit and ordered some much better ones from Jameco. Difference is night and day. Jameco's were like $8 each but well worth it compared to the crappy ones that came with the starter kit.
I reckon you could quickly tidy up the drilled holes in the breadboards by giving them a brief touch with a flame instead of faffing with pliers and whatnot.
I find the large funnel BBs don't hold wires as tightly., and if you use pre-made wires with the pin end that don't have a burr they go into the small funnel BBs just fine. If you spun those wire ends on a grinding wheel they will go into the SF BBs fine.
Oh I had a bad bread board like that when I was a kid. I for the life of me couldn't build anything on it... oh the infuriating memories you have brought back Julian.
All of the breadboard factories in the world(can't be more than 3 or 4) need to come together and retool their machinery so all breadboards are at least functional.
Yes, I share your frustration with bad breadboards. I wonder how many factories actually produce these breadboards. I have what appears to be the exact breadboard. Same MB-102 model#. Same exact packaging, but with a different logo and company name: "Ever-Muse Electronic" instead of "StellarSource".
If it helps someone, I bought a pack of 10 breadboards from aliexpress that are good (nice connectors, but the paint is bad and there is the break in the middle of power rails). I bought them on 02/01 and recieved them on 11/01 Seller : "Electr Stars Store" Product title : "Free Shipping 10PCS MB-102 MB102 Breadboard 830 Point Solderless PCB Bread Board Test Develop DIY" Color : "White"
Since one of these breadboards has 63 rows, drilling holes in the same places as you do with the half-sized boards will put holes at rows 16 and 48. That would be my preference. If instead you want the holes evenly spaced, you could drill holes at rows 21 and 42. The latter might hold the edges less firmly, though. Yes, you intentionally avoided obsessive spacing calculations, but actually the row count makes this much easier than trying to use the power rail groupings.
I just got a couple of these from ali express for I think around $1.50 or so. I only got 2 cuz I wasn't sure how the quality would be, but it's actually not bad at all. I just don't like the power rails that only go half way up but that's a minor problem.
So, that gives you maximum electronic circuit layout territory. Do you intend to jumper all of the power supply leads from one board to the other? Also, do you think it would be wise to place, say a 4.7µF electrolytic capacitor across each breadboard power rail? Also, if you get the Lindstrom 8141 wire snips, they cut very cleanly. These are very expensive (IMO) at $28 a pair, but worth it in my estimation because they stay sharp a very long time as long as you only use them for copper wire or softer materials. They are also re-sharpenable, either by you or Lindstrom. Use your other cheap side cutters for everything else.
Woot! More Vocoder coming up! Maybe you read my comments 👍 (Unlike most of the youtubers just doing this for money and don't have a passion for the social media side of things).
On the subject of breadboards you used to be able to get ones with wider spacing for 0.6" spacing components like processors and whatnot. I would really really really like to know where you can get those these days as I have checked every supplier I know of and none of them do them any more.
Nice new breadbords, are you planning after you have finish this project and it's working ok, to covert this all to real pcb's so you need less space and put it in a nice case?
I woundered this as well.. Once it works, it'd be pretty temping to pot in in clear casting epoxy resin if did not want to duplicate/change! Crazy solderless breadboards are probably cheaper than punched pad per hole pcbs :)
I've found the major sign of a poor breadboard is when the column numbers don't match up on either side. the poor ones seem to get run through the printing machine one way, flipped around and run through again which makes the number 1 on the opposite ends of the board. the good ones I've had have both 1's on one side and 60's on the other.
Have you tried the 'wrong one' with dupont wires (with the hard tips on them)? I got some breadboard that works fine with these but not with lose wires.
Thank you for another nice video! I thought I was the only breadboard fanatic, but you have me beat. Important, Check the resistance of several of the metal strips! I've found some from ebay that the resistance was so high they were useless. I found that out the hard way after my project kept failing even though I knew there wasn't anything wrong with the design. I also had the same problems that you've had. Thanks again.
Anybody remember the brand name of the original British made breadboards from the 60s/70s? Wracking my brains trying to think of it. Had a slot-in panel with holes to hold pots/switches.
I've heard Jameco and Busboard manufacturers make some of the better quality boards but they are US-based and have no international supplier network. In general it seems the UK is pretty crap when it comes to finding local suppliers of decent quality boards and the market, especially Amazon UK, is flooded with rubbish :)
I'd be interested in comparing the "springyness" (clinical term) of the metal used. Guessing that the cheaper ones are more prone to stretching to the point where they lose contact with any wires that you do manage to insert.
And you have been making your Vocoder for how many years?...I would have thought you would have done it by now and Bell labs would have hunted you down...
I've ran into the same issues with some of those breadboards. I've had better luck using the pre-made breadboard jumpers that have the pins on the ends.
Quickest way to identify good breadboard from crappy one, is by markings.. Good breadboard have booth "1" in one side and booth "60" in end side, mirrored by centre line (column don't change number in opposite side of centre line), but crappy breadboards have "0"/ "60" in one side and "60"/"0" in other side.. Markings lost logic.. Same with alphabetical characters - in same row they change letter at the end of row.. I never buy breadboard if they have that unlogical column / row markings.. ;)
check the bus bars if they are continuous. on some breadboards they are interrupted somewhere in the middle. it took me ages to figure that out. since that day i have a staple connecting the bus bar's halves
I had the same thing and used the smaller pieces of an assortment box of pre cut/prebent solidcore breadboard wires (you know those sets :P) to make the inbetween connections
I have experienced a lot of issues with the new fangled bread board wires that have the finger holder and finished ends on them. I have 22 gauge (solid) wires I made for breadboard use way back in the late 80's and have no issues with those going into the same breadboard holes.
@@jkmacgyver I know but he might as well have ordered just 1 to try it out. What if it was the same crap quality as the previous one? Would've been a waste.
Ni5ei and then you find out the one test piece is good, so then what? You order them again from the same seller, larger batch.... and then they’re the bad kind.
Conductor measures 0.6mm - plastic outer is 1.2mm. But these are measurements taken with my $4 digital calipers. This wire is about 30 years old - came from Maplin in the UK - probably good quality solid copper (tinned).
well its not nearly as bad as if the wires go in flawlessly and then the contacts are a bit loose and therefor make no contact. if your circuit then not works (or even worse works partially) --> good luck finding this. gets even harder if cables with bad contacts or internal microscopic breaks are involved. this will drive you crazy. so not complain on this.
I have the same problem and it is so frustrating. It seems to be hit and miss but even worse than tight holes are holes that provide flaky connections. I have thrown so many in the trash
Julian will you take a Hi-Res photo of the Vocoder when your done? Post it on twitter so I can get a poster done of it. Since I have been talking with you about it for awhile I would like a memorial photo. I hope that don't sound to creepy ~ *Cheers*
@@gs-we3rp buy from an actual company in China, or authorized distributers like Hontiey, JLCPCB, LCSC, etc. dont buy sketchy stuff from ebay that comes from china. they are usually still quite cheap compared to the stuff from Digikey or something. Digikey is great though. Generally, if everyone on youtube is saying good things about a seller, then their probably pretty good.
Problem with China products is the inconsistency in quality. It is a shame companies from other Countries do not produce electronic components. Pouting lips 👄 huh, 😂 lovely 😊
As you unwrapped that package I was looking at the one I bought recently which came in the same box. The tension here in the room was palpable...
If you mount the breadboard on thin metal you can dispense with the countersinking simply by screwing up through the metal into the bottom of the breadboard with short coarse-thread screws.
Julian, cut the wire at a diagonal instead of straight across.
That works :)
If you take the large drill bit that you're using to hand deburr, chuck it up into a drill and spin it backwards, it will deburr quickly without drilling into the board (much).
I’m surprised after all these years no one has come up with a quick fix for naughty breadboards.
Quick fix: Trash can!
@@benwinkel yeah their usually too cheap to fix and be profitable
I can't imagine a quick fix the "bad" inserts that Julian shows in the video. They are made poorly and cannot be fixed. The difference between the two inserts he shows in this video is surprising.
The breadboard screwed onto decking timber is a brilliant idea!
Imagine screwing it on a wooden breadboard! Breadception!
Just to reiterate what has been said here before. The first thing to check is to see if the column numbers match up numerically. If they don't match up, but run in opposite number numerically, the board is likely junk with hard to connect points. So the board marking should be consistent so point 'B26" should not be debatable. More important is overall quality, and this is one item worth paying extra for. Not only ease of assembly, but the quality of their connectors. Nothing is more frustrating than spending time tracing down an intermittent problem than finding out that it was a tie point that lost its springiness after a couple of uses, and no longer holds the wire tightly.
You can get much easier wire insertion if you cut the wires with sharp 'scissor' type of cutters that cut by slicing - such as on high quality stripping tools.. and especially if you cut the wire on a slight diagonal. When people cut the wires using diagonal cutters, the wire is basically crushed in half - forming an end that's flared much like the shape of a hatchet blade
One evening I noticed that sometimes, breadboard work was impossible, sometimes it was just easy. Then I saw your previous video, after which I just ordered a batch from Pololu and threw out a bunch of my randos.
My recent breadboard-mind-blown was realizing that the half-length ones have offset power holes, rather than lining up with the main holes. So you can't just drop a Digispark type board into them and have vcc and ground connected.
My limited, anecdotal experience suggests the ones that come in boxes are the good ones and the ones that just come loose are the bad ones, YMMV.
Doesn't work. The one I bought from aliexpress came in a box, but I was never able to insert anything useful into it.
".. my anxiety levels are going through the roof". 😊 You are a funny guy Julian. Good to see you posting new videos.
I abandoned the breadboard I got in my Arduino starter kit and ordered some much better ones from Jameco. Difference is night and day. Jameco's were like $8 each but well worth it compared to the crappy ones that came with the starter kit.
I reckon you could quickly tidy up the drilled holes in the breadboards by giving them a brief touch with a flame instead of faffing with pliers and whatnot.
I find the large funnel BBs don't hold wires as tightly., and if you use pre-made wires with the pin end that don't have a burr they go into the small funnel BBs just fine. If you spun those wire ends on a grinding wheel they will go into the SF BBs fine.
If you have one...you can use a Dremel-style rotary tool with a sanding or sharpening (coarse) bit to fix those counter sunk holes.
3M make the best breadboards in my opinion.
Bloody expensive though.
But will last several lifetimes.
Oh I had a bad bread board like that when I was a kid. I for the life of me couldn't build anything on it... oh the infuriating memories you have brought back Julian.
Try using cat 5 wire. It's thinner. I have some of those tight boards.I use them for circuits I'll keep a looooong time!
All of the breadboard factories in the world(can't be more than 3 or 4) need to come together and retool their machinery so all breadboards are at least functional.
Yes, I share your frustration with bad breadboards.
I wonder how many factories actually produce these breadboards. I have what appears to be the exact breadboard. Same MB-102 model#. Same exact packaging, but with a different logo and company name: "Ever-Muse Electronic" instead of "StellarSource".
If it helps someone, I bought a pack of 10 breadboards from aliexpress that are good (nice connectors, but the paint is bad and there is the break in the middle of power rails). I bought them on 02/01 and recieved them on 11/01
Seller : "Electr Stars Store"
Product title : "Free Shipping 10PCS MB-102 MB102 Breadboard 830 Point Solderless PCB Bread Board Test Develop DIY"
Color : "White"
one of the few times you want to see duckface online. Those new ones look well made indeed
LOL - true :)
real dovetails for breadboards!
Since one of these breadboards has 63 rows, drilling holes in the same places as you do with the half-sized boards will put holes at rows 16 and 48. That would be my preference. If instead you want the holes evenly spaced, you could drill holes at rows 21 and 42. The latter might hold the edges less firmly, though. Yes, you intentionally avoided obsessive spacing calculations, but actually the row count makes this much easier than trying to use the power rail groupings.
I just got a couple of these from ali express for I think around $1.50 or so. I only got 2 cuz I wasn't sure how the quality would be, but it's actually not bad at all. I just don't like the power rails that only go half way up but that's a minor problem.
Most men have wet dreams about woman... Julian has wet dreams about a stack of high quality breadboards... :P
With pouting lips!
I have 3 of those bad boards haha! Literally going in the can after I type this! Felt your pain they drove me MAD!!!
Awesome put some standoffs and go up another level👍
The funniest boards have labels 1..60 reversed if you hold the board upside down. Same with the letters!
So, that gives you maximum electronic circuit layout territory. Do you intend to jumper all of the power supply leads from one board to the other? Also, do you think it would be wise to place, say a 4.7µF electrolytic capacitor across each breadboard power rail?
Also, if you get the Lindstrom 8141 wire snips, they cut very cleanly. These are very expensive (IMO) at $28 a pair, but worth it in my estimation because they stay sharp a very long time as long as you only use them for copper wire or softer materials. They are also re-sharpenable, either by you or Lindstrom. Use your other cheap side cutters for everything else.
Some of my MB-102's are like that too.
Look for the A,B,C,D at both ends. The good ones will have A across from A. Bad ones will not and they will be opposite.
Woot! More Vocoder coming up! Maybe you read my comments 👍 (Unlike most of the youtubers just doing this for money and don't have a passion for the social media side of things).
On the subject of breadboards you used to be able to get ones with wider spacing for 0.6" spacing components like processors and whatnot. I would really really really like to know where you can get those these days as I have checked every supplier I know of and none of them do them any more.
Julian, don't you mean puckered rather than pouting. I'd say the rogues are more pouting
Thanks , I never looked inside a bread board
I've heard that those MB-102s suffer from bad connections, especially to parts with thin legs.
Nice new breadbords, are you planning after you have finish this project and it's working ok, to covert this all to real pcb's so you need less space and put it in a nice case?
Front panel vocoder is a concurrently running project :)
I woundered this as well.. Once it works, it'd be pretty temping to pot in in clear casting epoxy resin if did not want to duplicate/change! Crazy solderless breadboards are probably cheaper than punched pad per hole pcbs :)
I've found the major sign of a poor breadboard is when the column numbers don't match up on either side. the poor ones seem to get run through the printing machine one way, flipped around and run through again which makes the number 1 on the opposite ends of the board. the good ones I've had have both 1's on one side and 60's on the other.
Have you tried the 'wrong one' with dupont wires (with the hard tips on them)? I got some breadboard that works fine with these but not with lose wires.
it's a short drive to madness 😋
How many parts will be stuffed?
Bonkers. But what fun! :)
Thank you for another nice video! I thought I was the only breadboard fanatic, but you have me beat. Important, Check the resistance of several of the metal strips! I've found some from ebay that the resistance was so high they were useless. I found that out the hard way after my project kept failing even though I knew there wasn't anything wrong with the design. I also had the same problems that you've had. Thanks again.
Anybody remember the brand name of the original British made breadboards from the 60s/70s?
Wracking my brains trying to think of it.
Had a slot-in panel with holes to hold pots/switches.
You mean the t-dec and s-dec boards?
My original 0.1in breadboard (as opposed to S-DEC) were by Continental Specialities Corp (CSC) later Global Specialities (GSC)
@@Ni5ei Yes. I believe I do. 👍
Thank you.
Vero?
idol...i like that vocoder brouhaha...what is that... ..finish that
Julian, what is the opposite of _left?_ - 13:46
;-P
Hmm.
Found same boards from UK supplier £7.34 for 3
the good breadboards are numbered and lettered correctly, bad breadboards are mis-alligned numbers and letters are reversed on the ends
Breadboards with pouting lips???
Methinks Mr Ilett needs to get out more...
LOL
I really, really, really wasn't expecting that!
What is the size of the breadboards??
I've heard Jameco and Busboard manufacturers make some of the better quality boards but they are US-based and have no international supplier network. In general it seems the UK is pretty crap when it comes to finding local suppliers of decent quality boards and the market, especially Amazon UK, is flooded with rubbish :)
I'd be interested in comparing the "springyness" (clinical term) of the metal used. Guessing that the cheaper ones are more prone to stretching to the point where they lose contact with any wires that you do manage to insert.
And you have been making your Vocoder for how many years?...I would have thought you would have done it by now and Bell labs would have hunted you down...
You love your decking timber, don't you Julian?
WoW!, looks fantastic cant wait to follow you on this one !
you must've destroyed a lot of boats for all this decking timber to have :) Don't you hate the lands between the ridges in the wood ?
Portrait ahhhh my eyes
I've ran into the same issues with some of those breadboards. I've had better luck using the pre-made breadboard jumpers that have the pins on the ends.
There are also bad wires that have a burr on the end, so it doesn't go into those small funnel BBs easily. The good wires go into the SF BBs fine.
Did you get the idea of putting tiny people on your circuits from Tim Hunkin?
Well, maybe :)
Wow Breadboard Self Help Group for that.....lol.....I can't stand bad Breadbaords either...
Can I ask why aren't you making PCBs for it?
I am. There's also a front panel version of this project with custom made PCBs.
Quickest way to identify good breadboard from crappy one, is by markings.. Good breadboard have booth "1" in one side and booth "60" in end side, mirrored by centre line (column don't change number in opposite side of centre line), but crappy breadboards have "0"/ "60" in one side and "60"/"0" in other side.. Markings lost logic.. Same with alphabetical characters - in same row they change letter at the end of row.. I never buy breadboard if they have that unlogical column / row markings.. ;)
Wow, I wonder if that's true. I will start watching for that. Thanks!!!
the cheap one's prints pretty bad too
Excellent update, Julian. Just remember, don't say RIGHT! ;-)
Cheers Andy - and that's the problem with workshop tours :)
had a similar problem and used a brad to open them up.
check the bus bars if they are continuous. on some breadboards they are interrupted somewhere in the middle. it took me ages to figure that out. since that day i have a staple connecting the bus bar's halves
In my experience the lines on the sides are interrupted if there is a break in the bus bars.
I had the same thing and used the smaller pieces of an assortment box of pre cut/prebent solidcore breadboard wires (you know those sets :P) to make the inbetween connections
I have experienced a lot of issues with the new fangled bread board wires that have the finger holder and finished ends on them. I have 22 gauge (solid) wires I made for breadboard use way back in the late 80's and have no issues with those going into the same breadboard holes.
"No idea if these are any good... You know what? I'll order 7!"
Why?
7 of these are cheaper by $5 than 1 at RadioShack...
@@jkmacgyver I know but he might as well have ordered just 1 to try it out. What if it was the same crap quality as the previous one? Would've been a waste.
Ni5ei and then you find out the one test piece is good, so then what? You order them again from the same seller, larger batch.... and then they’re the bad kind.
What size was the wire with the green insulation ?
Conductor measures 0.6mm - plastic outer is 1.2mm. But these are measurements taken with my $4 digital calipers. This wire is about 30 years old - came from Maplin in the UK - probably good quality solid copper (tinned).
you know that breadboards are need to be used with peroper pins not any size shity way cutted wire
well its not nearly as bad as if the wires go in flawlessly and then the contacts are a bit loose and therefor make no contact. if your circuit then not works (or even worse works partially) --> good luck finding this. gets even harder if cables with bad contacts or internal microscopic breaks are involved. this will drive you crazy. so not complain on this.
Good evening all!
"A very wide pout."
Did you pay one set price for all of those breadboards? Or it's over $2.00 for each one shipped?
If not for that was gonna order some.
Most of this eBay stuff has free shipping, so you don't get a quantity discount on the postage price. But, hey, it's all pretty cheap :)
@@JulianIlett, OK thanks Bud.
An electronics expert with a breadboard fetish - nothing wrong there, just perfectly normal! :)
Good afternoon sir
diy-electronic breadboard sells just skyrocket.
Yeah, have you seen the quantities that Alice sells - I've seen items that have sold 20,000 odd :)
even the non-sparky's buy them cause they think it is meant for bread :)
I have the same problem and it is so frustrating. It seems to be hit and miss but even worse than tight holes are holes that provide flaky connections. I have thrown so many in the trash
Holly Vocoder Batman
Julian will you take a Hi-Res photo of the Vocoder when your done? Post it on twitter so I can get a poster done of it. Since I have been talking with you about it for awhile I would like a memorial photo. I hope that don't sound to creepy ~ *Cheers*
Not a problem - I'll probably use that on all my social media banner images. I'm very well aware that you're my #1 vocoder fan :)
Haha, I'm not surprised. Poor British tools meet poor Chinese hardware.. You get what you pay for..
If you pay a reasonable amount for Chinese products then usually their pretty good, unless their a scammer, which is pretty common in China
Why would anyone gamble on buying from China unless it's cheap. When you need quality, buy brand products - from a seller on your own continent.
@@gs-we3rp buy from an actual company in China, or authorized distributers like Hontiey, JLCPCB, LCSC, etc. dont buy sketchy stuff from ebay that comes from china.
they are usually still quite cheap compared to the stuff from Digikey or something. Digikey is great though.
Generally, if everyone on youtube is saying good things about a seller, then their probably pretty good.
cheap is cheap
Yikes. That's one big array of breadboards.
Hello Julian,
I need a bit of help regarding NRF24L01’s and wondered what is the best method to contact you.
Many Thanks.
You got some fake fakes!
Problem with China products is the inconsistency in quality. It is a shame companies from other Countries do not produce electronic components. Pouting lips 👄 huh, 😂 lovely 😊