Next revision should use the outside LEDs and not use the the middle LEDs, creating separation of the binary segments and allowing easier reading of the bar display.
@19:59 Using the tie clip is a great idea. Holds whatever you use it on down, and maybe dissipate heat. Sorry, I am still new to the hobby so maybe that is a quite normal thing, but I have never noticed it before. Thanks Julian.
Julian! Caution! I'm a retired Biomedical engineer. Early in my career, I used my thump to cover component leads as I clipped them off - using reasonably sharp high quality cutters. Didn't want the leads flying into my co-worker's eyes. Instead, the lead was injected into my thumb with such velocity that I didn't even feel it! I think it was some sort of Motorola dual gate MOSFET with gold leads. Nice little bugger. A month later my thumb was the size of a plum. The wire had hit the bone and turned into a zigzag shape. It was originally about 2 cm long. When cut out of my thumb (by myself), it was scrunched down to about 6 or7 mm. Every time you clipped a lead off, I absolutely cringed. You're heading for trouble, son. Nice video work! Thanks!
Yep. those old Motorola transistors with the gold leads had what I think was gold plated steel legs. very hard, very sharp and very beautiful. I used to get poked by those leads a lot. take care
You should definitely market these. My only suggestion for an upgrade would be polarity protection in the form of a single diode or a little smt bridge rectifier. I've killed so many logic chips by plugging the power in backwards.
Great work Julian, Always a pleasure watching your videos. 20% of the time I haven't a clue what you're talking about but it's all good homework for me! :) Keep them coming.
That's really useful, actually. I've been trying something similar, just with four bits input switches for a nibble to hex. But the few ics I found did just binary to decimal and then some nonsense for the A-F part. So I made a discrete diode ROM instead. Yours is much more compact.
Unfortunately, the MC14495 Decoder/Driver IC is an old design, and I don't think they are being made any more. At least I can't find any reference to them still being made, and certainly not in SMD-compatible versions.
@@BertGrink You're right, didn't think of that. I have worked with this IC in the past couple of years with some customer's products. No wonder they have changed their PCB layout ;) ! I did a filial search and came up short on direct replacement .Possibly a PLD or PIC transfer, but this was a one off so I am not getting tto hung up on fyture logistics.
Julian could possibly have a PCB section routed out that matches the IC body, and squish the DIL legs flat for surface soldering. It's still kind of an SMD - A Suspended-Mount Device, hahaha!
Wow, I haven't seen one of those in a while. I had made a Half A##ed attempt at making one of these with an 8 bit computer called the C64 years ago. I was repairing them in my garage under the Redwood Trees in Northern CA. I had so many boards to repair that I could offer the customers two options, 1 their own board back, 2 an immediate swap (as I had repaired many I had found used) and of course, the immediate swap was very popular. I used heat of the chips quite often, and sometimes they were cool when they were bad, hot other times. I always had to remove the chips, put in a socket, and put in a good chip. The board had a lot of PROMS and VID chips bad. I hope to find a C64 Commodore 64 (most likely a with a bad board) somewhere and repair it so I can have one . I still have most of the chips.
Many years ago we used a typewriter rubber (eraser) to clean component leads. Try to find one now! Just a thought, I might have been tempted to use the bar graph like x0000x0000 the two bytes are clear (to my old eyes) x = the blacked-out LEDs. lol
Nice work Julian, I always enjoy watching soldering; almost as therapeutic as doing it myself. It would have been nice to see some sort ot indicator to separate the upper and lower 4 bits of the bar LED display, to avoid ambiguity, but I don't know how that could have been achieved.
steveandamyalso Amusingly, I’ve just started watching the video and my first thought when Julian showed us the multiple digital IC PCB was... I don’t see any place for bypass caps? LOL
@@JulianIlett It is your design, do as you see fit. The bypass caps will do a great deal to reduce radiated EMI and overall circuit stability. You have a good GND plane, which will help tremendously.
@@JulianIlett Fair enough, I concede they aren’t really necessary in this application. For sure, any brief errant logic levels caused by switching supply line noise will stabilise (given the low switching frequencies involved). But I still maintain it’s good practice to include some bypass smoothing in any digital circuit. :)
Strictly speaking, it should be "OInK" with the N in lower case since that letter in the acronym isn't the first letter of a word which makes up the acronym. :) Yes, I'm one of *those* people. :D
Not sure what pcb software you use, but I know in eagle you can change the thickness and number of thermal reliefs used in the drc settings window (and rerun ratsnest to update the polygon plane render).
It's a crime against humanity that the 74 series never got a proper hex-to-7-segment converter, only ones that have these stupid segment combinations that look like anything exept a-f.
@@JulianIlett There's a seller from Lancs on ebay who sells socket pulls of what is purported to be a drop-in replacement, the DIS1417. They're about three quid a piece and he sells them in batches of various sizes. Did you know?
What's the point of using 4 ICs when you can use a single $0.5-$1 16-28 pin micro? You could optionally add button to switch between hex/dec which would also save you the hassle of custom pcb, making possible to order panels and use vscoring to cut rectangle circuit boards...
Just a thought. At 5:46 you said you had a dud MC14495 and that the pins of 573 are not tinned. Maybe they are not quite NOS... maybe they are "refurbished"... I'd try to swab them with a little acetone.
Thanks. I'm embarking on an 8-bit computer build inspired by Ben Eater's and James Sharman's builds. I was thinking of designing a little board like this, but now I don't have to. I just ordered a batch from JLC. One question: while watching you assemble it, I was wondering why you didn't put the MC14495 chips on the back, so you didn't have to stack the 7-segment displays on top of them. Too difficult / impossible to route the traces because everything is backwards?
I believe it's pretty normal for a new soldering tip to give off vapour when first used. Unless you're getting smoke from the device itself, I wouldn't worry about it.
As they say... "You don't solder a TIL311, you don't socket it either. You rent it!" I wonder what happened to those 20-30 pieces in storage at my first employer... But then again, this was some 26+ years ago... Back then, I built a POST card on ISA bus (0x80) with a pair of them (pretty much of what you have done here)... Would you reconsider and make public, free and unlimited use of the schematic (no brainer) along with the PCB and Gerber files if I lend you "sine die" a pair of TIL's?
I know you can change the thermal relief design (spokes) in Eagle. Also, how come you have your soldering iron so hot? I'm sure my Weller is 270 ISH and works well. Just curious and learning. Keep up the great videos, love them
The beauty of having a dual sided board with plated thru holes is you can use both sides. You should have mirrored the images of 14495 IC's and soldered them on the back side. That way the displays wouldn't sit on them and the whole thing looked a lot neater.
Yeah but the signal traces would have crossed. While I won't use them for very many traces, it is pretty easy to use tiny brass rivets to make your own through hole "plating" with DIY etched boards. I do this quite often. I just put the rivet in, hold the board and collar against a piece of wood, and use a nail or needle pick to expand the pointy side of the rivet. Then I use a drill and slightly larger bit driven counterclockwise to expand the rivet and set it in place. No special riveting tool needed. A kit with several different micro rivets can be sourced from AliEx for less than $5. The smallest ones work as vias and the larger as through holes :-) -Jake
Adding the binary display below is very for people who still have not fully "grocked" hex ! I have never liked the "fake" hex displays with 7 segment displays. "6" and "b" are just too similar. The "proper" part is a TIL311/DIS1417. These can be pricey, but you can find them sued/surplus on eBay for a few dollars a piece.
@@uni-byte If it is possible I think its a slick way to get around the very real issue of clarity. I 'm no electronics desiner though so I dont know if it's possible.
Who downthumbs videos like this? I’ve never understood that 🤔 It’s not like this is a political video or about killing baby bears. Just don’t watch them. 🙄
Probably because their use these days is extremely limited. And then you have another line item to stock and distribute. Easier to simply design a generic display and let the designer choose how it is driven. Then again, there are/were things like the DIS1417/TIL311 which had a built in hexadecimal decoder, and produce a very nice looking output.
What I find really amusing is that we seem to make nearly the same PCB circuits - you made an isolated FET driver and I made an isolated SCR driver, and coincidentally we used almost the same little black PSU module. And now? Logic! I made a logic board too, but different functionality and small form factor - 3x2 cm.
@@gordonlawrence4749 - I agree. Prototypes are different as you will likely pull them apart, or need to make some changes. Sockets are ideal for that, even dual wipe types. For the end product I always solder direct unless the chip contains firmware or is a PLD of some sort. It's cheaper and more reliable, even if the machine sockets are almost as reliable. They are costly. There are other reason to solder directly too, depending on the device and speed of the circuitry. Noise, path length/topology, emission, thermal, etc...
Uni-Byte - Someone must have stepped in something unpleasant, as there is one hell of a smell around here. Wire wrap production boards use / used IC sockets and would run for at least 20 to 30 years with good reliability. As with everything, if cheap rubbish sockets are used, you will run into problems. So use good quality sockets.
@@Mark1024MAK - And the smell is coming from your direction. Why do want to start a fight? Do you feel better now? Are you suggesting sockets are more reliable than soldering direct? If you want to use sockets, knock yourself out my friend. Just don't start the name calling thing (I don't know what I'm expecting, after all, this is the internet).
@@JulianIlett I checked the specs and even though the 541 is technically a buffer it seems to have exactly the same source/sink characteristics as the 573 (I compared the TI specs). Strange but true.
@@gordonlawrence4749 Thanks for the info. I tried lighter fluid many moons ago. Cleaning cartridges did unblock them. Prob best plan would be to do more printing
I’ve given up on inkjets for most of my printing. A mono laser printer is just so much easier to use. No wet ink, no expensive cartridges that block up and run out halfway through a job. And faster as well. And the best part, is the second hand laser printer only cost me £30 😀
It's a breadboard friendly logic analyzer! Cool and USEFUL PCB! ;-) Very nice Julian! I love it!
Next revision should use the outside LEDs and not use the the middle LEDs, creating separation of the binary segments and allowing easier reading of the bar display.
@19:59 Using the tie clip is a great idea. Holds whatever you use it on down, and maybe dissipate heat. Sorry, I am still new to the hobby so maybe that is a quite normal thing, but I have never noticed it before. Thanks Julian.
Julian! Caution! I'm a retired Biomedical engineer. Early in my career, I used my thump to cover component leads as I clipped them off - using reasonably sharp high quality cutters. Didn't want the leads flying into my co-worker's eyes. Instead, the lead was injected into my thumb with such velocity that I didn't even feel it! I think it was some sort of Motorola dual gate MOSFET with gold leads. Nice little bugger. A month later my thumb was the size of a plum. The wire had hit the bone and turned into a zigzag shape. It was originally about 2 cm long. When cut out of my thumb (by myself), it was scrunched down to about 6 or7 mm. Every time you clipped a lead off, I absolutely cringed. You're heading for trouble, son. Nice video work! Thanks!
Gees was the lead really pointy and really hard metal? Because thumb skin is pretty tough
Yep. those old Motorola transistors with the gold leads had what I think was gold plated steel legs. very hard, very sharp and very beautiful. I used to get poked by those leads a lot. take care
I really like how you use the beads to label the wires, thats quite clever.
You should definitely market these. My only suggestion for an upgrade would be polarity protection in the form of a single diode or a little smt bridge rectifier. I've killed so many logic chips by plugging the power in backwards.
That's an interesting take on a logic probe. LOL
Can't you do a video on designing a PCB for jlcpcb?
I'm planning one - but it needs to be a very simple circuit.
i'd love to see this too.
Second that very much!
Second that to.
ya me too
Great work Julian, Always a pleasure watching your videos. 20% of the time I haven't a clue what you're talking about but it's all good homework for me! :) Keep them coming.
That's really useful, actually. I've been trying something similar, just with four bits input switches for a nibble to hex. But the few ics I found did just binary to decimal and then some nonsense for the A-F part. So I made a discrete diode ROM instead. Yours is much more compact.
Very good design, clean with very little wasted space. I unserstand about overlapping the LED displays to the driver chips. Next time SMD versions?
Unfortunately, the MC14495 Decoder/Driver IC is an old design, and I don't think they are being made any more. At least I can't find any reference to them still being made, and certainly not in SMD-compatible versions.
@@BertGrink You're right, didn't think of that. I have worked with this IC in the past couple of years with some customer's products. No wonder they have changed their PCB layout ;) ! I did a filial search and came up short on direct replacement .Possibly a PLD or PIC transfer, but this was a one off so I am not getting tto hung up on fyture logistics.
For an SMD version, you’ll need to use a CPLD 😉
Julian could possibly have a PCB section routed out that matches the IC body, and squish the DIL legs flat for surface soldering. It's still kind of an SMD - A Suspended-Mount Device, hahaha!
Wow, I haven't seen one of those in a while. I had made a Half A##ed attempt at making one of these with an 8 bit computer called the C64 years ago. I was repairing them in my garage under the Redwood Trees in Northern CA. I had so many boards to repair that I could offer the customers two options, 1 their own board back, 2 an immediate swap (as I had repaired many I had found used) and of course, the immediate swap was very popular. I used heat of the chips quite often, and sometimes they were cool when they were bad, hot other times. I always had to remove the chips, put in a socket, and put in a good chip. The board had a lot of PROMS and VID chips bad. I hope to find a C64 Commodore 64 (most likely a with a bad board) somewhere and repair it so I can have one . I still have most of the chips.
Its great. Clever design.
"Seems to be picking up a bit of stray". I tried that once and was cautioned by the police...
I got outright arrested. Turned out she was a professional. ;-)
Many years ago we used a typewriter rubber (eraser) to clean component leads. Try to find one now! Just a thought, I might have been tempted to use the bar graph like x0000x0000 the two bytes are clear (to my old eyes) x = the blacked-out LEDs. lol
Nice work Julian, I always enjoy watching soldering; almost as therapeutic as doing it myself.
It would have been nice to see some sort ot indicator to separate the upper and lower 4 bits of the bar LED display, to avoid ambiguity, but I don't know how that could have been achieved.
Hi Julian, I got to 1:53 and am impressed !!!
This is brilliant. I need this.
Before making public, you really should have added the bypass caps. Please consider re-uploading the PCB layout WITH the bypass caps.
steveandamyalso Amusingly, I’ve just started watching the video and my first thought when Julian showed us the multiple digital IC PCB was... I don’t see any place for bypass caps? LOL
A purely combinational logic circuit doesn't need decoupling caps - there's nothing to latch into the wrong state :)
@@JulianIlett It is your design, do as you see fit. The bypass caps will do a great deal to reduce radiated EMI and overall circuit stability. You have a good GND plane, which will help tremendously.
@@JulianIlett Fair enough, I concede they aren’t really necessary in this application. For sure, any brief errant logic levels caused by switching supply line noise will stabilise (given the low switching frequencies involved). But I still maintain it’s good practice to include some bypass smoothing in any digital circuit. :)
Strictly speaking, it should be "OInK" with the N in lower case since that letter in the acronym isn't the first letter of a word which makes up the acronym. :)
Yes, I'm one of *those* people. :D
You're right - and it looks cool :)
Not sure what pcb software you use, but I know in eagle you can change the thickness and number of thermal reliefs used in the drc settings window (and rerun ratsnest to update the polygon plane render).
any chance of these being made for sale anywhere?
It's a crime against humanity that the 74 series never got a proper hex-to-7-segment converter, only ones that have these stupid segment combinations that look like anything exept a-f.
Agreed. The TIL311 is my favourite, but sooooo expensive now.
@@JulianIlett There's a seller from Lancs on ebay who sells socket pulls of what is purported to be a drop-in replacement, the DIS1417. They're about three quid a piece and he sells them in batches of various sizes. Did you know?
What's the point of using 4 ICs when you can use a single $0.5-$1 16-28 pin micro? You could optionally add button to switch between hex/dec which would also save you the hassle of custom pcb, making possible to order panels and use vscoring to cut rectangle circuit boards...
Then you wouldn't get to showcase your sponsor's ability to do odd shaped boards ;)
I don't want any programmed devices in this project :)
Plug it into your shift rigister sudo random generator
They output a 1 bit stream so unless you use a SIPO register to hold 8 bits it would just show 0 or 1 over and over
Just a thought. At 5:46 you said you had a dud MC14495 and that the pins of 573 are not tinned. Maybe they are not quite NOS... maybe they are "refurbished"... I'd try to swab them with a little acetone.
I like JLCPcb! But use led display holder :)
7 segment digits ... You'll be looking at these from 'above' ... Leaning forward might not be as desirable as leaning backward ;-)
Thanks. I'm embarking on an 8-bit computer build inspired by Ben Eater's and James Sharman's builds. I was thinking of designing a little board like this, but now I don't have to. I just ordered a batch from JLC.
One question: while watching you assemble it, I was wondering why you didn't put the MC14495 chips on the back, so you didn't have to stack the 7-segment displays on top of them. Too difficult / impossible to route the traces because everything is backwards?
I know that KiCAD can vary the number and size of the ground-spokes, but I gather that most people are using something else, like Eagle.
Two questions: Do they still make these and has anyone considered replacing the HC573N with a 74AHC8541N?
hey where you get those interconnect ribbon cables ? Digging those purple breadboard wires also..
Kind of off topic question: Does the TS80/TS100 soldering iron suppose to smoke on the tip when it's first used?
I believe it's pretty normal for a new soldering tip to give off vapour when first used. Unless you're getting smoke from the device itself, I wouldn't worry about it.
@@SodAlmighty Thanks :) Although I bought A Quick Charge 3.0 Charger it was pretty warm itself is that also normal ?
I see you get the JLCPCB pen... :-)
As they say... "You don't solder a TIL311, you don't socket it either. You rent it!" I wonder what happened to those 20-30 pieces in storage at my first employer... But then again, this was some 26+ years ago... Back then, I built a POST card on ISA bus (0x80) with a pair of them (pretty much of what you have done here)... Would you reconsider and make public, free and unlimited use of the schematic (no brainer) along with the PCB and Gerber files if I lend you "sine die" a pair of TIL's?
What do you think of designing a drone frame with easyeda then bolting the motors directly to the board?
Is it 340 C cold for soldering the IC??
I know you can change the thermal relief design (spokes) in Eagle.
Also, how come you have your soldering iron so hot? I'm sure my Weller is 270 ISH and works well. Just curious and learning.
Keep up the great videos, love them
Hi Julian, what software do you use to make the gerber file?
I thot I was the only one that solder like that.
The beauty of having a dual sided board with plated thru holes is you can use both sides. You should have mirrored the images of 14495 IC's and soldered them on the back side. That way the displays wouldn't sit on them and the whole thing looked a lot neater.
Yeah but the signal traces would have crossed.
While I won't use them for very many traces, it is pretty easy to use tiny brass rivets to make your own through hole "plating" with DIY etched boards. I do this quite often. I just put the rivet in, hold the board and collar against a piece of wood, and use a nail or needle pick to expand the pointy side of the rivet. Then I use a drill and slightly larger bit driven counterclockwise to expand the rivet and set it in place. No special riveting tool needed. A kit with several different micro rivets can be sourced from AliEx for less than $5. The smallest ones work as vias and the larger as through holes :-)
-Jake
Is there an alternative for the chip that's not in production any more?
have a 16 pin pic programed to emulate the 7 segment driver
Or an EEPROM ;)
Ilett
$2 for 10 PCBs & 24 Hour Production?! How on earth is that possible?
Before shipping costs
Adding the binary display below is very for people who still have not fully "grocked" hex !
I have never liked the "fake" hex displays with 7 segment displays. "6" and "b" are just too similar. The "proper" part is a TIL311/DIS1417. These can be pricey, but you can find them sued/surplus on eBay for a few dollars a piece.
Could you not just use the decimal to indicate that it's an alpha character on a 7 segment display?
@@rimmersbryggeri - Nice idea!
@@uni-byte If it is possible I think its a slick way to get around the very real issue of clarity. I 'm no electronics desiner though so I dont know if it's possible.
@@rimmersbryggeri - Possibly not in Julian's implementation, but it's certainly possible generally speaking.
The decoder chip used has an output pin that IIRC signals numbers of ten or greater.
I just learned a new word: "Squiffy". When something is not sitting quite right. "The Presidents new policy changes were a bit Squiffy".
Who downthumbs videos like this? I’ve never understood that 🤔
It’s not like this is a political video or about killing baby bears.
Just don’t watch them. 🙄
I wonder why no one is making these displays with builtin decoder.
Probably because their use these days is extremely limited. And then you have another line item to stock and distribute. Easier to simply design a generic display and let the designer choose how it is driven.
Then again, there are/were things like the DIS1417/TIL311 which had a built in hexadecimal decoder, and produce a very nice looking output.
What I find really amusing is that we seem to make nearly the same PCB circuits - you made an isolated FET driver and I made an isolated SCR driver, and coincidentally we used almost the same little black PSU module. And now? Logic! I made a logic board too, but different functionality and small form factor - 3x2 cm.
'495 has been hard to get so I have been using a substitute hex driver made from a PIC16F628 based on info from jakeselectronics.net
interesting
nice project julian , how long was the build in total?
About 90 minutes - I think
Never use a socket unless you need to - as in EEPROM or GAL.
oh ;-)
I always use turned pin sockets for prototypes. Have done for 30 years without an issue.
@@gordonlawrence4749 - I agree. Prototypes are different as you will likely pull them apart, or need to make some changes. Sockets are ideal for that, even dual wipe types. For the end product I always solder direct unless the chip contains firmware or is a PLD of some sort. It's cheaper and more reliable, even if the machine sockets are almost as reliable. They are costly. There are other reason to solder directly too, depending on the device and speed of the circuitry. Noise, path length/topology, emission, thermal, etc...
Uni-Byte - Someone must have stepped in something unpleasant, as there is one hell of a smell around here.
Wire wrap production boards use / used IC sockets and would run for at least 20 to 30 years with good reliability. As with everything, if cheap rubbish sockets are used, you will run into problems. So use good quality sockets.
@@Mark1024MAK - And the smell is coming from your direction. Why do want to start a fight? Do you feel better now?
Are you suggesting sockets are more reliable than soldering direct? If you want to use sockets, knock yourself out my friend. Just don't start the name calling thing (I don't know what I'm expecting, after all, this is the internet).
Ok I want to buy some. Can you put some up on ebay please.
Ryan Michael Upton Maybe he should do a partnership with JLC PCB so we get some discount on his PCBs
Just curious, why use a 573 instead of a 541? Availability?
The 573 and 574 have a lovely symmetry - the 541 is skewed on the output side.
@@JulianIlett I checked the specs and even though the 541 is technically a buffer it seems to have exactly the same source/sink characteristics as the 573 (I compared the TI specs). Strange but true.
I'm guessing that he just didn't think about it or that he already had some of the 573s in stock. The 541 would have likely been my first choice.
Couldn't you have connected all the cathodes of the LEDs together and used one resistor?
Brightness would change as the number of lit LEDs changed.
@@uni-byte You the man. Forgot about that one. Ya, it would work if only was lite at a time. Thanks.
can get inkjet cleaning cartridges to unblock the jets. Not sure what liquid is in them
Usually isopropanol and something else usually something simple like about 30% water.
@@gordonlawrence4749 Thanks for the info. I tried lighter fluid many moons ago. Cleaning cartridges did unblock them. Prob best plan would be to do more printing
I’ve given up on inkjets for most of my printing. A mono laser printer is just so much easier to use. No wet ink, no expensive cartridges that block up and run out halfway through a job. And faster as well. And the best part, is the second hand laser printer only cost me £30 😀
But dose it play Fallout 76?
I'm the first comment!!!
I'm still the first, second, comment!!!
@Mai Mariarti I had a life until Nov. 10, 2009 when I had a seizure and died. I'm on my second life now, thank you.
Congrats 🎉 you are moving up in the electron shield
Mai Mariarti try being nice, it is fun.
@@frankhobsonKJ4CDM Mai Mariarti only had one subscriber, so I became the second. Now I have a life.