Yes Julian, I had a very similar solder-less breadboards issue recently, fixing a malfunctioning circuit by spraying 91% Isopropyl Alcohol on/into all holes, cleaning the internal medal clips letting the excess drain out and dry. Then all circuits worked flawlessly to this day. This cleaning might help you also.
I have a dedicated small protoboard/breadboard specifically for helping header alignment when soldering. That way I don't compromise a good protoboard/breadboard heat wise.. I notice how easy you got the headers plugged into the board, it should be a lot harder than that, so it explains the loose jumper connections.
I thought I'd throw some "brand name" breadboards in with an order from the mouse-based electronics supplier, so I ordered the same ones as Ben Eater is supplying with his 6502 computer kits - Busboard Prototype Systems BB830. They're much better than the cheapie ebay ones I've bought previously (and they have continuous power rails, unlike most of the ones they're selling nowadays). They're not warped, so they sit flat, and the connections seem more consistently positive when you insert a component lead. And they also came with these thin aluminium sheets to stick onto the back, which would probably add a bit more rigidity. However they are literally 4 times more expensive than the cheapies off ebay, so not great if you need a bunch of them for a big project like this.
Ben has my eternal gratitude for suggesting those damn BusBoard breadboards, lol. They're amazing. 4 times more expensive, but infinite times less headache At least they're not consumables. At this rate they'll probably last longer than the DIP package...
To avoid bad connections beween breadboards I never use rigid conductors or multiple pins, I always use wires with a single pin. Thanks for sharing and Happy 2020 !
I am also making a CPU but I have given up with breadboard. I spent too much time hunting down bad connections. Now I make each part as a module, maybe on breadboard at first, but always transfer it to a PCB to make that section permanent. It's actually no more pricey to make PCBs than it is to buy good quality breadboards!
@@Apollo-p1l Yes, really. Breadboard PoCs are horrendous with even a fart changing the . The more one can do to match the next development stage the better. I find that power transfer is really bad on multiple rail breadboards and this is an interesting mitigator. I'm waiting for JI to mitigate the rest of physics and then, and only then, will I declare him the second coming of Jeebus! :D
20mm is the minimum V score size for JLCPCB, going below this gets you a tooling charge, so 5 X 5 on a 100 X 100 board means that 25 x 5 = 125 is the limit for your $2
I invested in some genuine BusBoard BB830s and haven't had a single connection problem since... and they're actually flat... Worth the cost to lose the constant headache imo. Ben Eater has my eternal gratitude for suggesting them lol
LeiserGeist, I don’t know where you’re based but if you’re in Europe, were you able to buy the BB830s locally? I can only find them in the USA. I’m having the same poor power distribution issues and I’d like to buy more of the BB830s (I also have the Ben Eater kit).
3lpid3 Are Mouser or Arrow available where you're at? According to BusBoard's site those are the two worldwide distributors. If not, maybe send Ben an email, see what he thinks about selling them? Dunno how well that'd work though... Sorry I couldn't be more helpful
The more you rely on "daisy chain" the more likely you will have power distribution problems. In general, parallel distribution is more reliable, but requires more wires so there are multiple paths (less resistance and less prone to single point of failure) from your power source to each component.
Good idea! I always use opposite "gender" headers to align the pins like female header for male and the other way around. Then I solder one or two pins, maybe adjust things, and then the rest.
If ever there was a good demo of why we don't use breadboards for production, this is it :o) That blue led array needs a bespoke pair of massive jump leads going to it from the batts, or summat, Julian :o)))
There is a pair of pads on the edge of the board which could take a capacitor or a 0.1" connector (JST or Dupont). It probably didn't show up very well in the video :)
It makes me so happy that you pronounce the L in solder instead of so many people. It has always bugged me. Great work on your Power Distribution boards!
I've been prototyping (or trying to) a simple 6502 computer. 3 Breadboards connected together. I have terrible power distribution through them also, for some reason. Everything is fine when now components are in the board. I probably need something similar.
The terminal strips of the breadboard may have sink into the adhesive pad under the board over time. That why your links are not making good connection and hence the poor power. If you slide the breadboard against the edge of the a hard surface like the edge of a table, it should push the terminal strips back up and you will have better connection.
Brilliant, thanks! Might it help slightly by feeding the power into the middle breadboard rather than the top one? May halve your overall power supply run (for now at least). I don't expect as dramatic a gain compared to your new power-panels though... :)
Great video! What ecad do you use? The body of the connector blocks being in conflict with the pin header should be possible to pick-up with a 3D view function. Possibly also with court yards, or maybe not when if the components are on the opposite sides of the pcb. I use the 3D viewer in Kicad all the time. It's a massive help for spotting these errors. Decoupling caps as many has suggested is a great tip. You could possibly solder them directly between the pins of the header? Or scrape off some solder mask and fake the footprints for them?
Very cool idea. I’m not sure I would’ve thought of designing a PCB solely to replace a jumper wire. You’re brilliant. Awesome work! Will you be sharing the final design / Gerber’s so we can add some of these to our next JLCPCB orders? :-)
@@JulianIlett I'm not sure what you meant by being a little undersized? I micro-measured my Breadboard spacing and your 440mil x 460mil outer hole grid appears bang-on! In terms of the KF141 overlapping the header pins, I’d just trim the header pins flush before soldering them, which should allow the connector to sit flat. Or did you mean "undersized" because the KF141 was hanging over the PCB edge at one end?
Hey hey, what about designing your own Breadboard-like PCB, you can screw to some kind of wooden/printed Board. You could solder Sockets and headers on where you need them. Like those adafruit breadboard PCB boards. Happy new year! :)
Bright and dim... That is exactly why those boards are illegal in the lab at my workplace. You spend all the time fiddling to figure out why stuff isn't working. Much better to ratsnest everything with breakout boards fitted to a plastic or wooden plate.
Hi Julian! Have you ever done a video showing the process of panellising a single-board design with EasyEDA and JLCPCB? I've started using Easy EDA after watching your videos and I've placed a few JLCPCB orders now but I'd be really interested in the steps to panellise a design. You didn't happen to video it for this board did you?
I can't remember. You don't do it in EasyEDA, you do it on the JLCPCB website when you're ordering your PCBs. You can try it right now - go to jlcpcb/quote and click YES to Panel by JLCPCB :)
I did my first EasyEDA board order on JLCPCB last week. I used the EasyEDA panelize option then placed order directly to JLCPCB, without selecting the “Panelize by JLCPCB” option (as the gerbers have already been auto-panelized in EasyEDA). The Gerber viewer shows the single PCB in the top left of the full panelized grid, but I understand that’s normal as the automation will replicate the single PCB cell. Same with the stencil (in theory). I guess I’ll know how this turns out in 10 - 14 days (airmail delivery selected). :-)
Julian - Bananana Breadboards ... Did you have to trim the foam pads on the bottom of the boards? .... Also, while the breadboards snap together, some of them also slide up and down into each other.
@@duncanx99 I didn't really look in the shopping mode (meaning I wasn't seriously shopping!). I found them first by Googling "KF141 connector" and going to the Images tab. But clicking around, I found some in smaller than 1,000 quantities at least: www.cytron.io/p-spring-terminal-3-ways-top www.cytron.io/c-terminal-block/p-spring-terminal-3-ways-side www.aliexpress.com/item/32863924026.html If you find better sources for small quantities, please let me know! :)
Design is here: easyeda.com/julian256/Breadboard-Connector But as I mentioned in the video, my dimensions aren't quite right - it's a bit too small in both directions.
Maybe the contacts on those breadboards need to be cleaned or something, that might explain why the blue LED block fades after a while. Tom George mentioned the fact that those headers should need a lot more pressure to insert them into the Bboard, and he's right - maybe cheap Bboard? Suppose I'd best wish you a happy new year before you sulk off and decide to add music and coins to the videos, hope you have a good one ;)
Hi Julian, have you tried putting a higher value resistor back onto the switch now that your power levels are sorted? If the levels were too low before because of the poor connections you could be shortening the chip life with over voltage now those levels are higher? C.
I don't know why you put that half one on the end, aren't the power rails running the length of the breadboard? I see just the need for two full and two half ones only along the middle.
Any power cross connection can help on breadboards. Because the contacts are weak, one rail may get worse current (and therefore more voltage drop) than another so a cross connection anywhere on the rails helps. This is also largely dependent on the quality of the breadboard.
Yeah, those warped breadboards are nasty! After trying a few, I now use the RobotDyn transparent breadboards which are made of a more rigid plastic and sit perfectly flat. I did a direct comparison which also covered this warped vs flat issue in my YT video on “Breadboard Comparison - RobotDyn Transparent vs White” here: ua-cam.com/video/mXzGEtF7xQA/v-deo.html
Some people do seem to have a very narrow view of things. Nobody, not even Julian, is forcing you to use JLCPCB! They offer a service. Julian uses that service. Where is the problem?
Yes Julian, I had a very similar solder-less breadboards issue recently, fixing a malfunctioning circuit by spraying 91% Isopropyl Alcohol on/into all holes, cleaning the internal medal clips letting the excess drain out and dry. Then all circuits worked flawlessly to this day. This cleaning might help you also.
I have a dedicated small protoboard/breadboard specifically for helping header alignment when soldering.
That way I don't compromise a good protoboard/breadboard heat wise..
I notice how easy you got the headers plugged into the board, it should be a lot harder than that, so it explains the loose jumper connections.
For me, that job was relegated to the old cheapo boards that didn't even lay flat in the first place. lol
I thought I'd throw some "brand name" breadboards in with an order from the mouse-based electronics supplier, so I ordered the same ones as Ben Eater is supplying with his 6502 computer kits - Busboard Prototype Systems BB830. They're much better than the cheapie ebay ones I've bought previously (and they have continuous power rails, unlike most of the ones they're selling nowadays). They're not warped, so they sit flat, and the connections seem more consistently positive when you insert a component lead. And they also came with these thin aluminium sheets to stick onto the back, which would probably add a bit more rigidity. However they are literally 4 times more expensive than the cheapies off ebay, so not great if you need a bunch of them for a big project like this.
a better breadboard would significantly reduce the amount of headache in troubleshooting a loose wire or voltage drop
Ben has my eternal gratitude for suggesting those damn BusBoard breadboards, lol. They're amazing. 4 times more expensive, but infinite times less headache
At least they're not consumables. At this rate they'll probably last longer than the DIP package...
Feeding the power in at one of the bridging connectors would be a further improvement, I think.
great Idea, feed the power in the most robust connection and the central point.
To avoid bad connections beween breadboards I never use rigid conductors or multiple pins, I always use wires with a single pin. Thanks for sharing and Happy 2020 !
I am also making a CPU but I have given up with breadboard. I spent too much time hunting down bad connections. Now I make each part as a module, maybe on breadboard at first, but always transfer it to a PCB to make that section permanent. It's actually no more pricey to make PCBs than it is to buy good quality breadboards!
Just wanted to thank you for the blue tac tip. I've got a blob on my solder station now and use it all the time.
I like it... You've reduced the error margin in breadboard, to stripboard, to prototype PCB error by at least one order of magnitude.
Not really. Its still pins in a breadboard.
@@Apollo-p1l Yes, really. Breadboard PoCs are horrendous with even a fart changing the . The more one can do to match the next development stage the better. I find that power transfer is really bad on multiple rail breadboards and this is an interesting mitigator. I'm waiting for JI to mitigate the rest of physics and then, and only then, will I declare him the second coming of Jeebus! :D
Blue-tack! Gotta say, before I found your channel I never heard of the stuff. Now, I couldn't get by without it. Excellent pro-tip sir.
I quite literally felt your excitement watching this! Love it when a plan turns out better than expected 👍🏻
20mm is the minimum V score size for JLCPCB, going below this gets you a tooling charge, so 5 X 5 on a 100 X 100 board means that 25 x 5 = 125 is the limit for your $2
I invested in some genuine BusBoard BB830s and haven't had a single connection problem since... and they're actually flat...
Worth the cost to lose the constant headache imo. Ben Eater has my eternal gratitude for suggesting them lol
LeiserGeist, I don’t know where you’re based but if you’re in Europe, were you able to buy the BB830s locally? I can only find them in the USA. I’m having the same poor power distribution issues and I’d like to buy more of the BB830s (I also have the Ben Eater kit).
3lpid3 Are Mouser or Arrow available where you're at? According to BusBoard's site those are the two worldwide distributors.
If not, maybe send Ben an email, see what he thinks about selling them? Dunno how well that'd work though...
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful
Yeah. I could also try Amazon US. Mouser has a huge fee they charge on top?
3lpid3 Not sure about fees, nor how Amazon works outside the states, but iirc the ones on there were sold by busboard. ymmv though
The more you rely on "daisy chain" the more likely you will have power distribution problems. In general, parallel distribution is more reliable, but requires more wires so there are multiple paths (less resistance and less prone to single point of failure) from your power source to each component.
Good idea! I always use opposite "gender" headers to align the pins like female header for male and the other way around. Then I solder one or two pins, maybe adjust things, and then the rest.
If ever there was a good demo of why we don't use breadboards for production, this is it :o)
That blue led array needs a bespoke pair of massive jump leads going to it from the batts, or summat, Julian :o)))
How long before we see a copy on eBay? ;-)
Happy New year to you Julian.
Thanks Simon - Happy new year :)
Could have added bypass caps to them
that was my first suggestion...maybe some small tantals.
There is a pair of pads on the edge of the board which could take a capacitor or a 0.1" connector (JST or Dupont). It probably didn't show up very well in the video :)
@@JulianIlett Nice
Also I love those spring push connectors, I have been using them for almost all my prototypes and breadboards lately.
Alway having fun. Looking forward to your 2020 shenanigans
Just received my 1st order from JLCPCB. The boards look good, I'll have to stuff them and then test before I know for sure. :-)
Thanks Julian. More power to you. Happy New Year.
Mk2 should have decoupling caps and LED on board. Plenty room on the bottom side for the caps and resistor.
It makes me so happy that you pronounce the L in solder instead of so many people. It has always bugged me. Great work on your Power Distribution boards!
Julian is English. English people correctly pronounce English words. ;-)
I've been prototyping (or trying to) a simple 6502 computer. 3 Breadboards connected together. I have terrible power distribution through them also, for some reason. Everything is fine when now components are in the board. I probably need something similar.
And now clean up the boards by removing all the old unnecessary jumpers
I think - the more power distribution links, the better - I'll probably leave them in.
@@JulianIlett yes, probably will. But it would be cleaner without them. :-)
The terminal strips of the breadboard may have sink into the adhesive pad under the board over time. That why your links are not making good connection and hence the poor power.
If you slide the breadboard against the edge of the a hard surface like the edge of a table, it should push the terminal strips back up and you will have better connection.
Brilliant, thanks!
Might it help slightly by feeding the power into the middle breadboard rather than the top one? May halve your overall power supply run (for now at least). I don't expect as dramatic a gain compared to your new power-panels though... :)
Great video! What ecad do you use? The body of the connector blocks being in conflict with the pin header should be possible to pick-up with a 3D view function. Possibly also with court yards, or maybe not when if the components are on the opposite sides of the pcb. I use the 3D viewer in Kicad all the time. It's a massive help for spotting these errors.
Decoupling caps as many has suggested is a great tip. You could possibly solder them directly between the pins of the header? Or scrape off some solder mask and fake the footprints for them?
"Solderless breadboard" ... *whips out soldering iron* LOL :-)
metamud You can use a breadboard to align pin headers while soldering like he did in the video.
so simple but so effective
I wonder if you could use a certain office staple for those jumpers
Very cool idea. I’m not sure I would’ve thought of designing a PCB solely to replace a jumper wire. You’re brilliant. Awesome work! Will you be sharing the final design / Gerber’s so we can add some of these to our next JLCPCB orders? :-)
Design is here: easyeda.com/julian256/Breadboard-Connector but the board is a little undersized as I mentioned in the video.
@@JulianIlett I'm not sure what you meant by being a little undersized? I micro-measured my Breadboard spacing and your 440mil x 460mil outer hole grid appears bang-on! In terms of the KF141 overlapping the header pins, I’d just trim the header pins flush before soldering them, which should allow the connector to sit flat. Or did you mean "undersized" because the KF141 was hanging over the PCB edge at one end?
Hey hey, what about designing your own Breadboard-like PCB, you can screw to some kind of wooden/printed Board. You could solder Sockets and headers on where you need them. Like those adafruit breadboard PCB boards. Happy new year! :)
Bright and dim... That is exactly why those boards are illegal in the lab at my workplace.
You spend all the time fiddling to figure out why stuff isn't working.
Much better to ratsnest everything with breakout boards fitted to a plastic or wooden plate.
Hi Julian! Have you ever done a video showing the process of panellising a single-board design with EasyEDA and JLCPCB? I've started using Easy EDA after watching your videos and I've placed a few JLCPCB orders now but I'd be really interested in the steps to panellise a design. You didn't happen to video it for this board did you?
I can't remember. You don't do it in EasyEDA, you do it on the JLCPCB website when you're ordering your PCBs. You can try it right now - go to jlcpcb/quote and click YES to Panel by JLCPCB :)
I did my first EasyEDA board order on JLCPCB last week. I used the EasyEDA panelize option then placed order directly to JLCPCB, without selecting the “Panelize by JLCPCB” option (as the gerbers have already been auto-panelized in EasyEDA). The Gerber viewer shows the single PCB in the top left of the full panelized grid, but I understand that’s normal as the automation will replicate the single PCB cell. Same with the stencil (in theory). I guess I’ll know how this turns out in 10 - 14 days (airmail delivery selected). :-)
I think I'd call those "bus builder blocks." :)
Where can I find the schematics for this awesome mini board?
Julian - Bananana Breadboards ... Did you have to trim the foam pads on the bottom of the boards? .... Also, while the breadboards snap together, some of them also slide up and down into each other.
I wish there were gold-plated breadboards... I have connection issues quite frequently as well.
BusBoard makes the best ones I've found so far, no connection issues yet. Expensive but worth it imo
@@leisergeist Thanks, I will certainly give them a try!
I wondered what sort of current the whole thing is pulling from the power supply?
Pretty cool!
I can help thinking this could have been achieved with the right gauge transfomer wire with the varnish burned off on the ends.
Thanks for sharing! Would you mind saying what brand and model those green push-in connectors are? I can see a use for those!
KF141 I believe
@@JulianIlett I was able to find them from that number. Great! Thanks.
@@KennyTrussell Did you find them in small quantities? If so, could you share a link?
I can only find them with a minimum quantity of 1,000
@@duncanx99 I didn't really look in the shopping mode (meaning I wasn't seriously shopping!). I found them first by Googling "KF141 connector" and going to the Images tab. But clicking around, I found some in smaller than 1,000 quantities at least:
www.cytron.io/p-spring-terminal-3-ways-top
www.cytron.io/c-terminal-block/p-spring-terminal-3-ways-side
www.aliexpress.com/item/32863924026.html
If you find better sources for small quantities, please let me know! :)
@@KennyTrussell Search for "Spring terminal block"
why not make the power straight to the new connectors VIA soldier
I would love to order a batch of these. Can we download Gerber file?
Hi Julien and happy new year. Why don't you put the batter wires directly into the green connectors so it distributes the power from the centre out?
Good plan - happy 2020 :)
These look cool, would love to try them. Will you be sharing the design and/or maybe giving some away? ;)
Design is here: easyeda.com/julian256/Breadboard-Connector
But as I mentioned in the video, my dimensions aren't quite right - it's a bit too small in both directions.
@@JulianIlett Thank you.
Good project
Are you sure you aren't overpowering those blue segments and they are dimming from overheat?
Maybe the contacts on those breadboards need to be cleaned or something, that might explain why the blue LED block fades after a while. Tom George mentioned the fact that those headers should need a lot more pressure to insert them into the Bboard, and he's right - maybe cheap Bboard? Suppose I'd best wish you a happy new year before you sulk off and decide to add music and coins to the videos, hope you have a good one ;)
Hi Julian, have you tried putting a higher value resistor back onto the switch now that your power levels are sorted?
If the levels were too low before because of the poor connections you could be shortening the chip life with over voltage now those levels are higher?
C.
This is pretty unlikely with a CMOS 7555 device. Its input voltage range is 3-16V so over-voltage on 4 NiMH is just not going to happen.
Is there a part one for this computer build? Is it the same as the Ben Eater 8bit computer?
For the ones on the side, can you make them the same as the centre ones and fit them up a couple of spots.
I might put right angle header pins in them and mount them vertically :)
I don't know why you put that half one on the end, aren't the power rails running the length of the breadboard? I see just the need for two full and two half ones only along the middle.
Any power cross connection can help on breadboards. Because the contacts are weak, one rail may get worse current (and therefore more voltage drop) than another so a cross connection anywhere on the rails helps. This is also largely dependent on the quality of the breadboard.
Why not make a board that’s one set of links longer and put the smoothing caps in it too.
In this video: the breadboard collector has no spare breadboards.
What is the part number of the 0.1 inch (2.54 mm) pitch connectors that you're using? Thanks.
KF141
What's the green and orange connector called? Can you share a listing please?
It's a KF141 - you can find it on eBay.
@@JulianIlett cool! Do you remember you made a video where I asked you what you did for a living? Which video was it, I can't find it. Thanks!!
@@JulianIlett can you make a video on how these terminals are used? Cheers!
Julian, how long does it take for JLCPCB from placing your order to getting the boards to you?
That depends on the shipping method, with DHL I order Sunday and they are delivered Thursday, with normal post it's 10 to 14 days.
Can you share the file to the board plz and thank you
What is the name of the connector block thing.
KF141
@@JulianIlett Thanks!
Yeah, those warped breadboards are nasty! After trying a few, I now use the RobotDyn transparent breadboards which are made of a more rigid plastic and sit perfectly flat. I did a direct comparison which also covered this warped vs flat issue in my YT video on “Breadboard Comparison - RobotDyn Transparent vs White” here: ua-cam.com/video/mXzGEtF7xQA/v-deo.html
I have a solution for the bread boards not lining up perfectly larger breadboards...lol
Is it worth adding space to the board for decoupling caps too?
Another great idea! Adding 1 or 2 decoupling caps to the board would seem a good enhancement to this clever little PCB design! :-)
There is a pair of unused pads (connected to 5v and 0v) on the board which could take a capacitor.
Thumbnail not in video! _shakes fist_ ;-)
Ha ha, no. Thumbnail taken about an hour after video :)
Just asking for connection issues TBF just make PCB save trouble lol🙂 I bet that what edit BT (not virgin media)uses 😆😆
Get it patented.
As in sposerd by.................................
It
Why not just use dupont leads? Just shorten the leads if you want it neat. Why make a special pcb for this?
Seems kinda pointless.
FEMADEATHCAMPCONTROL so how much would he earn on that track?
Sorry Julian, you've sold out to JLCPCB, I wish you and everyone else all the best but I'm out.
Everyone sells out - most people sell out to their employer (money for their time). I prefer to call it sponsorship :)
Some people do seem to have a very narrow view of things. Nobody, not even Julian, is forcing you to use JLCPCB! They offer a service. Julian uses that service. Where is the problem?