19:22 The Imperium does not have the strongest military of any sci-fi setting. They don't even have the strongest military of their own setting. Universes like Doctor Who, Xeelee Sequence, and the Culture Cycle absolutely destroy it. On the other hand, this was basically a fanfiction audiobook. Pretty well done.
Another weakness of Imperium of Man is that they have NO AI. It is not used/outlawed within and throughout the Imperium. Thus, any AI boosts utilized by the TI factions would hold a significant edge over the Imperium as even if they got ahold of it, they would NOT use it.
The only thing I'm wondering is what if a Mahact happened to gene-thrall a space marine? They could then start cloning them en masse, and we'd have two galactic threats not just with small platoons of them, but entire armies made up of just space marines! Sure, the Mahact version may not (initially) have all the gear they usually fight with, but the Mahact are pretty great at tech, so they could probably eventually outfit them. Also, the druaa can erase people's memories. Could that be used to turn some of these one-man-army super soldiers against the Imperium? Probably not enough to turn the tides at all, but, you know. Gotta ask!
Really fun video, thanks! I'm not a 40K expert either, I've only listened to UA-cam videos and played a few games. But, here are some thoughts. * It seems a bit... unfair to pit the Imperium of Man at it's strongest against the TI universe when it's near it's weakest. But I understand why that was done. * I don't think enough credit is given to the scale of the TI universe. The lore makes the universe a LOT larger than the game suggests it is. * The Imperium of Man didn't fracture until the Horus Heresy, but there were still plenty of Xenos around. The Imperium of Man couldn't bring it's full power against the TI universe, because doing so would leave their holdings to the mercy of the Xenos. * One of the Imperium factions, the Adeptus Mechanicus, are the keepers of Imperial technology. It's my understanding that their job is to maintain the technology of the Imperium, technology which is considered perfected, and that any attempt to improve said technology is considered heresy. That's why they're still using bolters and chain swords 10,000 years after the Horus Heresy. Ergo, the Imp-o-Man would NOT be able to assimilate FTL technology from TI. I don't know what other drive tech the IOM could bring to bear, but if they're stuck at sublight speed, then there's no chance they could win. Well, I guess that the TI universe might forget they came because it takes them so long to get anywhere from Quann. * I think the Mahact gene sorcery is predicated on the idea that the Mahact seeded the genetics of all of the galaxy's races before they were defeated. That seeding wouldn't have affected the Imperium of Man. So, I don't think the gene sorcery-including Benediction-would have any effect on the Imperium of Man. If it DID, what would stop the Mahact from just turning the Imperium forces against each-other? That seems like an automatic win for TI. * Having a HUGE military doesn't by default make your military more powerful. How well will bolters and laz guns work against a raging horde of N'orr or a cybernetic Mindnet commando? I don't think there's enough lore in TI to really answer that kind of question, but it's worth considering. Yeah, Space Marines are bad news, but can they survive X89 bacterial weaponry? That seems unlikely. Does 40K have weapons that can fire from one star system to another, like a deep space cannon? That doesn't sound like something they field. Cheers!
100% agreed, especially on that first point. I don't think the Imperium of Man ever beats the Golden Age Lazax. While we don't have much from that period, we know mankind in 40k waited till after the Eldar fell to really make their move, and I'd wager the Lazax Imperium was similar to the Eldar Empire. People who are quick to dismiss TI in this matchup generally don't understand the scale of the Twilight Imperium, because they have this preconception of Warhammer as an insurmountable opponent.
Im an expert on 40k lore, and i can confidently tell you that it basically is, lol. They called it the “Dark Age of Technology”, which was followed by the “Age of Strife”, which then begets the rise of the Emperor and his Imperium. The Imperium is what happens after Twilight Imperium collapses.
I just cannot resist from pointing out, that the Emperor during the Great Crusade was not "the God Emperor". He was only deified after his installement on the Golden Throne. "The Emperor of Mankind" would be more fitting in your scenario.
It would be interesting to see this match up if we assumed that the end result of a game of TI is cannon. At the end of a game of TI, the galaxy is united under a new Emperor which means there is no time delay in unifying the galactic forces. Additionally, all of the factions have developed powerful technology X-89 bacterial Weapons, Warsuns, Assault Cannons, Integrated Economies, Light Wave Deflectors. And finallly, the infrastructure of the galaxy has been reestablished with Space Docks and PDS networks across multiple systems. If the TI universe wins a bitter victory when it is divided and underdeveloped, then it surely wins outright when unified and at full strength.
I definitely agree that would make for an interesting thought experiment, though I'm not sure what unification looks like with the Nekro and Vuil’raith. And without them, I don't know of TI can fight off the Great Crusade... Definitely worth exploring however!!
I feel like mentioned Benediction and Nova Seeds were not really explored enough. Benediction could literally send a fleet into a sun, no warp protection will help. Gashlai and their technology live in suns, good luck exterminating that with nukes / chemical / virus bombs. Also, Arborec is kind-a giant tyranid, on my money. It could revive dead space marines / primarchs / imperial guard, learn from their brain and put them against Imperium / Necro / Vuil'Raith. Titans of Ul could also terraform planets really fast to be much better industrial base and create planet-cannons that bring down fleets from across other sectors. They also are kind-a 40K lesser-titans scale, so could pick up a fight against them on planet surface. Jol-Nar Universities trying to recreate space marine tech in a blink of an eye are also somewhat forgotten. Still, this is a great video and a nicely done essay with a wonderful and fitting ending. Thank you so much for inspiration that one brings. Really waiting for future ones too and big luv from Ukraine. +
Blackstone Fortresses have the ability to force suns into supernovae, effectively killing all the Gashlai inside. Pit the Necrons against the Nekro Virus. The Vuil'Raith would be a good equal to Chaos Daemons. I don't know if the Letnev would get along with the Eldar, even though they're both elf-like. The Mechanicus would be interested in studying Jol-Nar tech. The Tyranids would just be test subjects for the Mahact.
Maybe, is the federation of man a period in the golden age of man prior to the rise of the emperor on terra, and the species of TI among those destroyed in the great crusade, heck, the gene sorcerors could be a faction of chaos, maybe a proto slanesh, khorne or tzeench. Just a thought
These comparisons can’t ever be made intelligible. Why? Because the very foundational assumptions of each universe cannot overlap and still make sense. For instance, you cannot both have the Warp (from 40k lore) and therefore the risks of Warp travel and non Warp travelling ships of TI in the same superpositional universe. If you assume away the presence of the Warp and all the risks that accompany it so that the Imperium can be ripped from it’s context to enter this TI universe, then you are completely undermining the whole justification for 90% of why the Emperor’s Imperium is exactly, and necessarily, the way that it is. You are ensuring the TI’s victory before you even get started - you have constructed a forgone conclusion, the rest of this video is just a formality at that point. No, the best way to make these comparison videos would be to identify a faction within each universe that best represents a faction from the other universe, and see how that faction is coping within that setting. For instance…
…These Necro’s are very similar to the Necron from 40k. So, all you have to do is look at how the Necron are faring against the Imperium of Man to get a fair assessment of how the Necro would probably fare in that situation. This would fairly preserve all of the foundational premises that are inextricable to the 40k universe, and which have intrinsically shaped the Imperium as to become the bastion of dogma and grim-darkness that it is. The most overwhelmingly important difference here is the presence of Chaos, the Warp, the Chaos gods, and mortal’s relationship to, and influence over the very fundamental laws of the universe through just their sheer emotions. Warhammer 40k, at base, is not a “hard sci-fi” style setting, it is closer to Tolkiens Fantasy or D&D lore. Wherein, because of the whole fundamental reality of the universe being tied to The Warp, you can have absolutely ridiculously overpowered things like The Dark King, from the latest Horus Heresy Novel. The Dark King has the power to…[HH series Spoiler Warning]…. . . . . The Dark King is the Emperor of Mankind pushed to the point of losing. If he wanted to he could just embrace Chaos energy and delete the ENTIRE universe. This would be the final endgame scenario - but only given that any comparisons are made between Universes where 40k has the home-field advantage.
Great video, TI faction design is everything 40k should have been. Sol is guard so big tick. space marines are lame and guard should be the poster boys. 40k has a few cool factions but it's so lacking. Space dwarves... yuck ... we want naga, viruses, AI, giant plant etc.
Ah yes, Twilight Imperium, a setting famous for its lack of alliances of convenience. While the Federation and Barony are anything but fast friends, I think old habits would be put on the backburner when faced by such an existential threat.
@@stephenburchill5521 You mean how they both were using the Quann wormhole? It is established canon that they both rely on it for trade. In my headcanon for the intro scene, Quann is controlled by the Federation, but Letnev trade ships (and in fact trade ships from all the reasonable factions) are permitted to use the wormhole. This doesn't mean the Letnev and Sol are buddy-buddy, only that they aren't shooting on sight, which considering the complexities of galactic war, seems reasonable.
@@BatteriesNotRequired the novels dog into this a bit deeper and show the letnev are explicitly not allowed to use the Quann wormhole as they are not forgiven for the past conflict. They infact pretty much do shoot each other on sight as it's racial hated at this point.
@@stephenburchill5521 there's a big difference between civilian trade ships and military vessels. Yeah, if the Letnev moved a warship near Quann, there'd definitely be shots fired, but civilian vessels aren't going to be fired upon by other civilian vessels. They certainly don't like or trust each other, but I think you overestimate how aggressive they both are towards each other.
19:22 The Imperium does not have the strongest military of any sci-fi setting. They don't even have the strongest military of their own setting. Universes like Doctor Who, Xeelee Sequence, and the Culture Cycle absolutely destroy it.
On the other hand, this was basically a fanfiction audiobook. Pretty well done.
Another weakness of Imperium of Man is that they have NO AI. It is not used/outlawed within and throughout the Imperium. Thus, any AI boosts utilized by the TI factions would hold a significant edge over the Imperium as even if they got ahold of it, they would NOT use it.
The only thing I'm wondering is what if a Mahact happened to gene-thrall a space marine? They could then start cloning them en masse, and we'd have two galactic threats not just with small platoons of them, but entire armies made up of just space marines!
Sure, the Mahact version may not (initially) have all the gear they usually fight with, but the Mahact are pretty great at tech, so they could probably eventually outfit them.
Also, the druaa can erase people's memories. Could that be used to turn some of these one-man-army super soldiers against the Imperium?
Probably not enough to turn the tides at all, but, you know. Gotta ask!
Absolutely amazing! As a major fan of both I'm glad to see TI given a fair shake! Great stuff!
CAN'T BELIEVE I SURVIVED TO FINALLY SEE THIS
Phenomenal video, I had a blast watching this. Thanks so much, I'll definitely be thinking about this crossover the next time I play TI.
Really fun video, thanks!
I'm not a 40K expert either, I've only listened to UA-cam videos and played a few games. But, here are some thoughts.
* It seems a bit... unfair to pit the Imperium of Man at it's strongest against the TI universe when it's near it's weakest. But I understand why that was done.
* I don't think enough credit is given to the scale of the TI universe. The lore makes the universe a LOT larger than the game suggests it is.
* The Imperium of Man didn't fracture until the Horus Heresy, but there were still plenty of Xenos around. The Imperium of Man couldn't bring it's full power against the TI universe, because doing so would leave their holdings to the mercy of the Xenos.
* One of the Imperium factions, the Adeptus Mechanicus, are the keepers of Imperial technology. It's my understanding that their job is to maintain the technology of the Imperium, technology which is considered perfected, and that any attempt to improve said technology is considered heresy. That's why they're still using bolters and chain swords 10,000 years after the Horus Heresy. Ergo, the Imp-o-Man would NOT be able to assimilate FTL technology from TI. I don't know what other drive tech the IOM could bring to bear, but if they're stuck at sublight speed, then there's no chance they could win. Well, I guess that the TI universe might forget they came because it takes them so long to get anywhere from Quann.
* I think the Mahact gene sorcery is predicated on the idea that the Mahact seeded the genetics of all of the galaxy's races before they were defeated. That seeding wouldn't have affected the Imperium of Man. So, I don't think the gene sorcery-including Benediction-would have any effect on the Imperium of Man. If it DID, what would stop the Mahact from just turning the Imperium forces against each-other? That seems like an automatic win for TI.
* Having a HUGE military doesn't by default make your military more powerful. How well will bolters and laz guns work against a raging horde of N'orr or a cybernetic Mindnet commando? I don't think there's enough lore in TI to really answer that kind of question, but it's worth considering. Yeah, Space Marines are bad news, but can they survive X89 bacterial weaponry? That seems unlikely. Does 40K have weapons that can fire from one star system to another, like a deep space cannon? That doesn't sound like something they field.
Cheers!
100% agreed, especially on that first point. I don't think the Imperium of Man ever beats the Golden Age Lazax. While we don't have much from that period, we know mankind in 40k waited till after the Eldar fell to really make their move, and I'd wager the Lazax Imperium was similar to the Eldar Empire. People who are quick to dismiss TI in this matchup generally don't understand the scale of the Twilight Imperium, because they have this preconception of Warhammer as an insurmountable opponent.
It's about time you posted this ;)
Yeah, that's basically what I thought would happen :) . But it's a great video, Ae! Very well done!
Great video as always!
What if Twilight Imperium was a precursor to Warhammer 40,000?
New Headcanon Unlocked
I wish.
Im an expert on 40k lore, and i can confidently tell you that it basically is, lol. They called it the “Dark Age of Technology”, which was followed by the “Age of Strife”, which then begets the rise of the Emperor and his Imperium.
The Imperium is what happens after Twilight Imperium collapses.
I just cannot resist from pointing out, that the Emperor during the Great Crusade was not "the God Emperor". He was only deified after his installement on the Golden Throne. "The Emperor of Mankind" would be more fitting in your scenario.
The Commissar Custodes is calling. Hehehe
That was fun. I like the idea that the TI universe could probaly only win by sacrificing its future. Poor Nomad though.
Yeah, TI can really only win a pyrrhic victory in this showdown!
Awesome video, hope to see more stuff from you in the future.
It would be interesting to see this match up if we assumed that the end result of a game of TI is cannon. At the end of a game of TI, the galaxy is united under a new Emperor which means there is no time delay in unifying the galactic forces. Additionally, all of the factions have developed powerful technology X-89 bacterial Weapons, Warsuns, Assault Cannons, Integrated Economies, Light Wave Deflectors. And finallly, the infrastructure of the galaxy has been reestablished with Space Docks and PDS networks across multiple systems.
If the TI universe wins a bitter victory when it is divided and underdeveloped, then it surely wins outright when unified and at full strength.
I definitely agree that would make for an interesting thought experiment, though I'm not sure what unification looks like with the Nekro and Vuil’raith. And without them, I don't know of TI can fight off the Great Crusade... Definitely worth exploring however!!
SPOILER ALERT:
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lul, emps got wrecked
this video was amazing!
Please bring back the ti4 lore explained videos, yours are best/only ones there are!
I feel like mentioned Benediction and Nova Seeds were not really explored enough. Benediction could literally send a fleet into a sun, no warp protection will help. Gashlai and their technology live in suns, good luck exterminating that with nukes / chemical / virus bombs.
Also, Arborec is kind-a giant tyranid, on my money. It could revive dead space marines / primarchs / imperial guard, learn from their brain and put them against Imperium / Necro / Vuil'Raith.
Titans of Ul could also terraform planets really fast to be much better industrial base and create planet-cannons that bring down fleets from across other sectors. They also are kind-a 40K lesser-titans scale, so could pick up a fight against them on planet surface.
Jol-Nar Universities trying to recreate space marine tech in a blink of an eye are also somewhat forgotten.
Still, this is a great video and a nicely done essay with a wonderful and fitting ending. Thank you so much for inspiration that one brings. Really waiting for future ones too and big luv from Ukraine. +
Blackstone Fortresses have the ability to force suns into supernovae, effectively killing all the Gashlai inside.
Pit the Necrons against the Nekro Virus.
The Vuil'Raith would be a good equal to Chaos Daemons.
I don't know if the Letnev would get along with the Eldar, even though they're both elf-like.
The Mechanicus would be interested in studying Jol-Nar tech.
The Tyranids would just be test subjects for the Mahact.
Maybe, is the federation of man a period in the golden age of man prior to the rise of the emperor on terra, and the species of TI among those destroyed in the great crusade, heck, the gene sorcerors could be a faction of chaos, maybe a proto slanesh, khorne or tzeench. Just a thought
I LOVE this.
Where did that artwork come from? I want some.
AdMech:
AdMech:
AdMech:
Nekro: *hey.*
AdMech: X(
Very cool
These comparisons can’t ever be made intelligible. Why? Because the very foundational assumptions of each universe cannot overlap and still make sense. For instance, you cannot both have the Warp (from 40k lore) and therefore the risks of Warp travel and non Warp travelling ships of TI in the same superpositional universe. If you assume away the presence of the Warp and all the risks that accompany it so that the Imperium can be ripped from it’s context to enter this TI universe, then you are completely undermining the whole justification for 90% of why the Emperor’s Imperium is exactly, and necessarily, the way that it is. You are ensuring the TI’s victory before you even get started - you have constructed a forgone conclusion, the rest of this video is just a formality at that point.
No, the best way to make these comparison videos would be to identify a faction within each universe that best represents a faction from the other universe, and see how that faction is coping within that setting. For instance…
…These Necro’s are very similar to the Necron from 40k. So, all you have to do is look at how the Necron are faring against the Imperium of Man to get a fair assessment of how the Necro would probably fare in that situation. This would fairly preserve all of the foundational premises that are inextricable to the 40k universe, and which have intrinsically shaped the Imperium as to become the bastion of dogma and grim-darkness that it is.
The most overwhelmingly important difference here is the presence of Chaos, the Warp, the Chaos gods, and mortal’s relationship to, and influence over the very fundamental laws of the universe through just their sheer emotions. Warhammer 40k, at base, is not a “hard sci-fi” style setting, it is closer to Tolkiens Fantasy or D&D lore. Wherein, because of the whole fundamental reality of the universe being tied to The Warp, you can have absolutely ridiculously overpowered things like The Dark King, from the latest Horus Heresy Novel. The Dark King has the power to…[HH series Spoiler Warning]….
.
.
.
.
The Dark King is the Emperor of Mankind pushed to the point of losing. If he wanted to he could just embrace Chaos energy and delete the ENTIRE universe. This would be the final endgame scenario - but only given that any comparisons are made between Universes where 40k has the home-field advantage.
Great video, TI faction design is everything 40k should have been.
Sol is guard so big tick. space marines are lame and guard should be the poster boys.
40k has a few cool factions but it's so lacking.
Space dwarves... yuck ... we want naga, viruses, AI, giant plant etc.
Failed 30 seconds in when it said Letnev and Sol was working together. Clearly has no concept of the lore between the two.
Ah yes, Twilight Imperium, a setting famous for its lack of alliances of convenience. While the Federation and Barony are anything but fast friends, I think old habits would be put on the backburner when faced by such an existential threat.
@@BatteriesNotRequired The intro had them friendly before the existence of the threat.
@@stephenburchill5521 You mean how they both were using the Quann wormhole? It is established canon that they both rely on it for trade. In my headcanon for the intro scene, Quann is controlled by the Federation, but Letnev trade ships (and in fact trade ships from all the reasonable factions) are permitted to use the wormhole. This doesn't mean the Letnev and Sol are buddy-buddy, only that they aren't shooting on sight, which considering the complexities of galactic war, seems reasonable.
@@BatteriesNotRequired the novels dog into this a bit deeper and show the letnev are explicitly not allowed to use the Quann wormhole as they are not forgiven for the past conflict.
They infact pretty much do shoot each other on sight as it's racial hated at this point.
@@stephenburchill5521 there's a big difference between civilian trade ships and military vessels. Yeah, if the Letnev moved a warship near Quann, there'd definitely be shots fired, but civilian vessels aren't going to be fired upon by other civilian vessels. They certainly don't like or trust each other, but I think you overestimate how aggressive they both are towards each other.