Preferring first Terminator shouldn't be anything weird. It's more raw, more horror like, 80s synthesizers are all over the soundtrack. It feels less Hollywood-y.
Aliens was still tense with plenty of horror though, more faithful to the first. On the other hand Cameron changed the tone almost completely in T2 Judgement Day. It was a big mistake in my mind, and why i consider T1 by far the best and Cameron's best work.
The first will always be special for me, I remember being a kid probably no older than 10 and seeing it on TV from the point onwards where the terminator was in the motel fixing himself up and cutting into his eye with the scalpel. I didn't know what he or it was or what the movie was but I was horrified and intrigued the moment I saw it. It was an empty house, probably after midnight and in complete darkness, the way I think you should watch a movie like that, completely immersed into what is happening before you. Objectively speaking T2 is the better movie, but the claustrophobic feel and the suspense of being chased by something you seemingly cannot defeat is very powerful. Not to mention the attention to detail, like the terminator losing his eyebrows and some of his hair when Reese blows up the car after they leave the nightclub, it wasn't explained in any way why he looked a little different or why he changed his hair, but just left to the viewer to put it together and I probably only caught it the 3rd time I watched the movie. Both, the first terminator and the first Alien movie are my favourites because of the similarities between them. Both are scifi horror in for the most part darkeness against an enemy that is probably going to win as you cannot really think of a way to beat them while watching it, you might think that of course they will, but it also makes you doubt it a little, they're not overly polished movies with a super high budget and thus production quality so you are watching something that feels different to the rest.
One thing I want to bring up from T2 is that I thought that the running Robert Patrick did as the T-1,000 was staged to make him look fast whenever he ran in the movie. But the documentary of the movie revealed that it was HIM that ran so freakishly fast and it wasn't staged. Plus he was fast enough that they had to do extra takes because Robert caught up to Edward Furlong on that bike during filming. My mind was blown and I appreciated Robert's work soo much more after that.
Robert Patrick just nailed this role, to think that James Cameron wanted Billy Idol to have the role but he didn’t get it because he was recovering from a motorcycle accident is nuts
That's so cool. I knew Robert did a lot of good things but didn't know that. TRUE STORY - they asked him just to do one take with his "stare" and was like sure he did the whole turning his head at the audition and that's how he got the role. James Cameron deserves a lot of credit for picking a perfect antagonist.
Not sure if anyone talked about this already but their is one neat point a lot of people tend to miss. In T1 when Reese is telling Sarah about the picture. He mentions he always wondered what she was thinking in that moment. At the end when we see the picture is taken. We learn Sarah was thinking about him.
The biggest problem with the Terminator franchise: It should never have been a franchise, just the first and second films and that’s it, Just like Alien
@@qnebra agreed. Even if what it added was of questionable quality, it did so without touching what came before, so it's a net positive to the franchise
i think the cops burst in firing because the security guards alerted them that it was the same person who killed 18 police officers all those years ago, so maybe the swat were not gonna pull any punches
also, I think the SWAT burst in firing because Arnold just opened fire on everyone with a minigun, about 2 minutes ago, and they probably thought that "zero casualties" was ***we got lucky no one was killed***, not precision gunfire. suspect is clearly armed and dangerous.
Dyson has the best send off. He realizes he’s the impetus of the killing SkyNet and then later when he’s mortally wounded he tries his best to stay alive to give the police time to get out of the lab before his hand falls on the detonator to blow it up. He tries to save lives while knowing he’s going to die. “I don’t know how much longer I can hold this”. Cops realize it’s a bomb and retreats. Great Dyson send off
His introduction is great. Sarah is interrogating the terminator about who this man is and then we cut to him at home. A lesser movie would have made him some irredeemable corporate suit. Instead we get an optimistic decent family man. They have a really cute scene with his wife and children that makes his later actions all the more meaningful and tragic.
His heavy breathing was very realistic as well. The actor who portrayed Dyson was in a car crash that resulted in one of his lungs collapsing. He said that's how he was breathing immediately after the accident. So... He told James Cameron since Dyson took a shot to the chest, he would be breathing like that.
One thing I never noticed until a recent rewatch of Terminator is that Arnie's "Fuck you, Asshole!" isn't just a random pick; it's actually a call back to the very beginning of the film where he tells the punks to give him their clothes, and one of them says "Fuck you asshole!" Right before he kills them. It's really subtle, I certainly never noticed it, but it's also kind of funny.
never noticed that. cool. it seems like a non-verbal cue that shows us how the T800 is gradually learning human behavior with more interaction. (ala, "hasta la vista, babeee")
I remember when Salvation came out, I was talking to a friend that hadn't seen it yet. I told him Anton Yelchin did an amazing job as Kyle Reese. He replied "what, generic 80s action hero?" I was so confused. I couldn't see how anyone saw his character that way. Kyle isn't macho, or confident, or stoic. He doesn't drop one liners sarcastically as he does macho action man stuff. Kyle is paranoid as fuck, terrified to the point of shitting his pants for the entire film. Borderline abusive to Sarah at first. I always remembered that conversation with my friend. But it wasn't until years later that Jai Courtenay butchered the character beyond belief in Genisys that I realized, yes, people remember Kyle Reese completely wrong.
Kyle Reese might be the only RESISTANCE fighter than actually acts like a guerilla, resistance-type fighter. He spends most of his time running and hiding because that's what you do when you're up against an unstoppable force.
When i was a young, my dad let me watch Terminator, Predator, Alien, Aliens, and The Thing. All of these along with the Star Wars films set my standards.
Cheers to you and your pops! My dad also graced me with these amazing films. I think as a kid I may have gotten my dad to buy us matching leather jackets haha.
I am very much the same. With a list like that it's been pretty much downhill from there for me with just a highlight maybe once a year. Nothing seems like a classic to me anymore and that's not something they necessarily acquire as they age. Some films you just know instantly you will never forget.
That’s really it. After T2, I really don’t like Terminator movies. Salvation was kind of okay, getting a future war movie was so-so. But all the others are the exact same movie. Strip away all the gimmicks and how they’ve tweaked the bad terminator and it’s all the same.
@@Shawshankdude2005 Check out The Sarah Connor Chronicles TV series. It sadly ended on a cliffhanger, but it's absolutely brilliant and a worthy continuation from T2
Terminator Films = Alien Films = Predator Films: 1st one is scary, tense and something is hunting the protagonists. The 2nd one is a lot more action and the protagonists getting more firepower to turn the tables on the monster. Everything else after is probably best forgotten.
Never thought about all those franchises having the same theme/outcome. Makes sense. My only thoughts now are do you still regard a franchise as good when the majority of its films are failures?
@@cmelft2463 I think I am a bit old school; the word franchise, to me, has always been associated to fast food restaurants but there is a similarity between what is happening in Hollywood. (There's a Midnight Edge YT about this in regards to how a restaurants serving steak goes full vegan with rude staff demanding money.) If the original premise - the essence of the first film - is maintained in all films consistently, it's less about art; it's about giving the customer what they want in the first place.
Like-wise, with McDonald's, true - it's not going to make good with the critics and it's not haute cuisine but you really love a Big MAC Now, you can have a failure in a franchise - always one bad apple - but if the others can stand on their own, it's fine until the majority are failures, then it will always be tainted even the best performing ones. It's like there's two KFC's near to me: one is always clean and newer but longer to drive to, the other is untidy, closer and staff a bit rude. Although I like KFC, I dislike that store and choose to ignore it so maybe - with all franchises - you ignore the ones you hate provided the rest of them is good until the majority are not great and then you question the franchise?
@@cmelft2463 "franchise" is marketing language. They were excellent stand-alone films, then miraculously, great sequels. Then the money men and creative B-team came in. Screw "franchises".
Not sure about Predator in that list; but, it was definitely a fun watch that will probably remain watchable for a very long time. Was always disappointed that Bill Paxton didn't get more of the sequel time.
@@dennisearle I think so too, just watched Tombstone and I wished he got a bit more screen time in his prime. Mind you, his turn as the Sarge in the Edge of Tomorrow showed he could have been a great Sarge/Veteran of the Aliens series if they managed to write his survival.
When John Connor (Christian Bale) hot-wired the robot bike in Salvation he should have whispered to himself “Easy money” ... it would have totally made the connection back to T2
Well the fact that he rode motor bikes when he was young, knew how to hack atm's and computers..plus the Guns And Roses..track.. Was more than enough..
My 19yo son recently watched 1-4 for the first time almost back to back. He couldn’t help but see all of the ways T2 copied T1 and without all the 90s nostalgia for how awesome it was for the time, he actually thought T3 was an equal movie to T2. He even thought the “thanks captain obvious” humor of the T850 was more in line with how a robot would joke. T2 has Arnold answering with a “yeah” or making a click sound when talking about remote control bombs. T3 is more robotic deadpan. If you can get past the few awful parts it’s actually a really great Terminator movie! Barely made it though Salvation but that’s when the connection to T2 was thought of.
"You bring in somebody who's like 'I wanna tell this story,' and you're like "Oh, but... you're in this universe, so you can't really tell _that_ story.' And they're like 'Nope, I'm gonna tell this story.'" This was a quick line, but I think you actually hit on a very profound truth. Every new movie _has_ to be part of an existing franchise, because brand recognition is the only thing they'll spend that kind of money on. But then they don't want to work within the constraints of lore, continuity, tone, or anything else that had previously been synonymous with that franchise. Then of course they blame the very fans they were trying to court for not excepting their bold new take on the franchise.
They want to tell their own stories, but it's much more risky to make a whole new IP so those stories have to be shoved into established franchises, even if there's no room in the lore and it turns into a bloated person wearing pants that spill over the belt line, creating a muffin top.
Another one, when the T1000 is impersonating John's foster 'mom', that's the first time it's seen to be capable of imitating people, and it's a throw back to the scene in T1 where Sarah's 'mom' is impersonated by Arnie: but his voice alone. In THIS scene it's revealed to us that the T1000 can not only impersonate a voice over the phone (a la T1 Sarah's 'mom' scene) but it can also imitate their physical form, to the point where even John's foster Dad doesn't realise he's not sharing the kitchen with his wife. It steps everything from T1 up a notch beautifully, but again, is another quirk reserved for when you see T2 for the very first time, and probably when it was first released only 5 or so years after the first Terminator.
I don't know if it's true, but before and even after Terminator came out there were a lot of rumours that Cameron had to have the script partly rewritten because originally the Terminator was more an infiltration unit, like the T-1000 in the second movie. But when Arnold wanted the role that obviously didn't pan, so they made the Terminator this unstoppable killer machine. Following that logic, the original concept would then be used for the T-1000 in Terminator: Judgement Day to combat Arnold's Terminator.
When the T1000 was impersonating the stepmom, he appeared to be preparing dinner. I wonder if a) he can cook and b) would have made dinner to continue the charade if John hadn't called in that moment.
If the original Terminator was made today they would completely ryin Sarah's characters by making her the most generic and flawless female character ever like Captain Marvel and Rey. You guys tag teamed this franchise beautifully btw!
It's so sad that this is so obviously the way it would go. Kyle spends the whole movie getting put in his place and Sarah doesn't need protecting because she is "bada**"
Yeah, they would probably do something stupid like have her deliver the line “come with me if you want to live” to Kyle Reese. Oh, right, they did all these things already.
If you take all of those films....... then add TV shows like Star Trek and Doctor Who, then add in all the comics they have destroyed. Everything I liked growing up has been destroyed.
@@Chaosherold That's a certainty at this point..... Phase 5 looks totally SJW.... Captain Marvel, female Thor, Black Widow film about 7 years too late etc
Regarding the SWAT bursting in guns blazing: Bear in mind that this is just after a minigun opened fire on 20 cops and blew loads of cars up, within a few days of cops and security guards in various places turning up dead, and they're expecting to be dealing with a man they believe to have once shot up a whole police station full of people.
The t1000 was probably dragged into several police briefings and it had to hide as one of them while gathering the full reconesaince of the police force ha... that would be a wierd scene
Nothing made to be worn can stand up to being hit by the rounds of a minigun. Any cover in the building that would have stop smaller rounds is useless.The SWAT people were actually very brave to go in knowing if the enemy fire first non of them would have a complete body to burry. Shooting first is quite understandable😓
Yeah. I feel like a more aggressive police force/SWAT team would be expected in a world where an entire police station got gunned down. It’s a cool narrative detail that highlights how the existence of a Terminator altered the world.
Are SWAT supposed to shoot second in every engagement, or are they clear to open fire if they know they're dealing with an enemy who is armed and has opened fire? For this discussion, "engagement" could either mean an incident before the suspect's arrest/escape (i.e. the whole Cyberdyne incident), or each exchange of fire (i.e. Arnold destroying the cars is one and then their entry is another)? I'd also add that besides Arnold and the recent/old Police massacres happening with his face, Sarah is confirmed to be there by an earlier radio report, and based on John's earlier exposition, she ended up in the Mental Asylum not just for her PTSD and Traumatic damages, but because she committed/attempted to commit acts of destructive terrorism in the past. So you have explosions and shots fired in an incident you know to involve an escaped Terrorist Fugitive and a long-missing Police Murderer. Even putting aside procedure, I wouldn't blame a SWAT member's judgement for electing to shoot first for their own safety, considering how much of a risk even entering the building is.
Here’s a fun fact for you all, I read Arnold’s autobiography ‘Total Recall’ and he said when he was doing the first terminator he gave James Cameron a suggestion of what if The Terminator opens up the fridge in Sarah’s house and finds a beer and drinks it and he gets drunk, apparently Cameron scolded him saying this is a machine he doesn’t drink or get drunk lol
At the end of last year(2020) I showed my 11yr old the first 2 movies back ta back and in the mall she shouted "WAIT! He's the good guy now". And i was so happy for her ta get ta experience that for the first time. And proud as hell that i made it happen. Good show guys
Ur a good dad. I'm sure people would say bad idea but I've never forgotten that my parents took me to c T2 in theaters when it came out. I was 8. I had already seen T1 an most of Schwarzenegger's movies. Loved em all he was my favorite actor and to this day I'm appreciative for my parents (my mom really) taking me to c T2 I remember I cried hahaha when he died lol
the T1000 phasing through the cell bars is absolutely one of THE best vfx shots made. The whole scene leading up to it... the actual effect... but the icing on the cake that REALLY sells it IS that gun as he walks through - it not only re-inforces the gun isn't him, but it truly helps to sell the effect outright - the fantasticality of it all juxtaposed right next to a typical awkward gun snagging moment just helps it all to click in your mind. As an animator for feature films and tv one of the things we always look to do is find contact points and small ideas that help to sell an effect. I worked years ago on Xmen Apocalypse (terrible film) but one of my first shots was to animate a gun dissolving in the hand of the actor... i animated the bullets falling out of the gun as it dissolved... the director and producers didn't ask for it but after seeing it they felt it really helped to sell the idea so it stayed in :) When i was animating those bullets the T1000 snagging gun moment was in the back of my mind lol
The best detail about Kyle having his nightmare flashbacks of Hunter Killers (HK's) in T1 is that they get triggered by construction machinery (Cranes and drilling machines). A raw example of human tools, that present day people are used to, being fashioned into some efficient human killing machine in the future.
Agreed, T1 was dark, gritty, pessimistic. T2 was a polished, popcorn-munching blockbuster made to have mass appeal. It was loads of fun and a great sequel but there was no darkness to it.
@@Sams.Videos True, but again these were a take on the T1 scenes of Kyle being woken and reminded/motivated by dreams of things that had happened to him;(female comrades being blown apart, survivor groups hunting rats before being infiltrated & annihilated), these were all presented unceremoniously while Sarahs premonition felt almost romanticised, a great scene yes, but it never happened to her, all of Kyles did.
Sarah is also in a way responsible for Kyle’s death. Had she not phoned her mother, the T-800 wouldn’t have pinpointed her and Kyle’s location at the hotel.
@@davidrothman5258 i agree. yes and no. She shouldnt have given her location. But TALKING to her mom, and not knowing the T800 could do voices so convincingly, Sarah probably thought that no MOTHER would rat out her child.
It was a terrible mistake, but a very human and understandable one. That is why it's such great writing. She didn't know that the T800 could mimic voices.
@@huwguyver4208 Remember though, before it is revealed that The Terminator is impersonating her mother - Sarah is saying on the phone that she was told not to see where she was - and was convinced to eventually reveal the location when Arnie started impersonating a concerned mother and she relented. Then that's when they switch to show that it was Arnold. So it's also written really well showing how he was able to mimic human behavior in a way that could gain him access to his target. Recognize how in T2 then, when John is on the phone with his mother, the Terminator takes the phone and figures out a way to find out whether they are talking to his actual foster mother or the T-1000 because he knows what strategies it would use. He also tells John before that that the T-1000 will definitely try to reacquire him there and when questioned about this, he responds "I would" - another call back to T1
@@Novasky2007 "Don't have that either. Look, let me make it simple: if you can't point at it, we ain't got it, ok? Now, what can I get ya?" . I may well be wrong, as it's been years since I saw the film.
@@Novasky2007 yeah you're right. Pretty sure a measly 40w wouldn't generate enough power for plasma let alone fire something very deadly. I wonder if it was Kw in the script?
Arnie did drop words he couldn't pronounce properly, but i'd imagine Cameron just made up techno babble that sounded cool he's not really known for his love of scientific accuracy But I guess you could retcon the Phased to mean its Superheated Plasma that is Phase Shifted into the 40wt range inside the riffle to cool it but the plasma shifts back once its been fired. Using a Voltage Lag in its wave frequency. ua-cam.com/video/30J5U0ThRUc/v-deo.html
I personaly can't decide. I like the atmosfere of T1 and the pacing is a bit better, but T2 has some of the greatest character moments in movie history.
Absolutely agree about it going back to its horror roots. I kind of even think if you did a new terminator movie it shouldn't even say terminator in the title leave the fact that's what's hunting the person or persons down to be found out in the movie. No studio would ever go for that though
When T2 came out, it felt like the better film but as time passed, I noticed that I was preferring the original more and more. It doesn't help that Edward Furlong's acting in T2 is pretty horrendous at times. Some scenes make me cringe. The Terminator is the far superior film, despite it's dated effects and low budget.
I must confess, Genesys is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me. It's like the end-state of all failed reboots and sequels. The point where everyone just starts sending shit back in time from all other timelines and as a result everything just starts to collapse and then John Connor was a terminator and Eleventh Doctor is a robot.
I prefer it over Salvation and Deep Fake. I realise that it is complete nonsense but it is a far more entertaining film, IMO. It's biggest let down in terms of casting is Kyle Reese's actor. Just awful.
i have a weird relationship with it. every couple months or so i develop i strange curiosity toward it and feel like i should watch it again. so i do and somewhere in the third act i've completely lost interest. however i still finish it, which after i ask myself why i did that and feel absolutely empty
I think its main issue is the action is kind of weak. That and establish a multiverse mor effectively. Really cement the idea that T1 and T2 still exist
Hmmm... just re-watched the police station from first movie. The cop that gets told "Watch Him!" and then knocked out by Kyle is probably the only one to survive, which when you think about it is also terrifying. Imagine waking up on the floor, at first thinking "Shit, the prisoner escaped. I am going to really get it now" and then going out into the rest of the police station.
Great vid. Two things I wanted to point out that didn't come up though. In T2 to lorry chase in a storm drain is a great callback to the end of T1. The lorry exploding in the first film cripples the T-800, but barely leaves an impact on the T-1000, showing the raised stakes. In T1 Kyle monologues about the picture of Sarah John gave to him, and how he always wondered what she was thinking in that moment. Flash to the end of the film when the picture is being taken, and she was actually thinking about Kyle. Small detail but so good.
"He says that you're a very beautiful senora. And he's ashamed to ask you for 5 American dollars for this picture. But If he doesn't, his father will beat him."
FYI: In case you didn’t know, the scene of the real Sarah approaching behind the fake Sarah during the final battle looks seamless because it’s not an effect. It’s Linda Hamilton’s twin sister.
@@robirvine6970 I'm in the comments after the video, and I don't think they talked about that there. They talked about how Hamilton's twin was used for the mirror scene when they operated on the Terminator, but I don't think they mentioned how she was used for the shotgun scene too.
One more thing you will only miss if "you *weren't* there"... When Arnie takes the sunglasses after the initial bar brawl, it's the finishing touch to him 'completing the look' of the first Terminator. He's got all the biker gear, he's got the Harley, he's missing the trademark shades. He competes that look effortlessly with 'bad to the bone' playing.... It's (almost) the equivalent of breaking the fourth wall, it's an acknowledgement that somehow the 'new' terminator knows what the 'old' terminator ended up looking like, even though that's impossible. At the time, T1 wasn't a million years earlier and Arnie was a massive box office hit, so watching him actively "dress up" as the first T1 was purposefullly done with a nod to the fact that this MASSIVE international movie star was rebooting (in a cooler way) his early-career low-budget bad guy persona. But you had to be there I guess.
what you say makes sense but i dont think its impossible for new arnie to know how old arnie looked. After all its J. Connor who sends it back and reprograms it. Sarah told John T1 story countless times, so John would know in the future. I know its silly af, i just wanna say that he COULD know.
@@iMORTIsieteVOi No, now you're just reaching. Just leave it be, it's a cute little nod the audience, gives him that familiar iconic look. Why would he want the good robot to look identical to the robot that scared the living shit out of his mother, anyway?
Want gritty, 80’s Reese flashback styled sequel set in future war to cancel all these shitty sequels and reboots. Forget intertwining timelines, give me synths and neon and blue lit sets
Something I caught the last time I watched T1, regarding the photograph-- When Kyle is telling Sarah about the future, he says John had given him a photograph of her: "You seemed sad... I used to always wonder what you were thinking at that moment." And at the end of the film, we are shown what she was thinking about in that photo: The kid snaps the picture right as she finishes narrating to the tape recorder, "...in the few hours we had together, we loved a lifetime." *click* So in that photo she was thinking about how much she loved Kyle. That's a nice touch.
I’ve watched this 4 times before convincing my friends to watch the 1st and 2nd Terminators. Hot damn such great movies, it’s amazing to see friends who haven’t seen it get enamored with the classics
This was great! I just finished watching T1 and T2 because of this stream and I am so glad I did! More of these please!...P.S. Michael Biehn will be in an episode of The Mandalorian this fall as a bounty hunter I believe.
I don't know, I thought it was a fun little joke. Important thing to remember is how he's not the villain in that one. That's not to say you shouldn't take things seriously, but I don't think it ruins things like it definitely would have if he did that in the first one. In the context of the movie, I don't see any real issues with a funny little throwback like that
Fun thing I noticed about Robert Patrick/T-1000. I recently watched the movie and paid very close attention to his eyes. The only times he blinks is when directly interacting with humans, ie. talking to John's foster parents. When he was in Terminator mode, he never does. A very tiny, but highly impactful detail that just further proves how great this movie is.
Another cool thing about T2 is, the day after John and the T-800 rescue Sarah from the hospital and they're driving out of the city, Sarah says to the T-800 "Keep it under 65 we don't wanna get pulled over" and then later in the film when they're being chased by the T-1000 in the truck on the bridge, John tells the T-800 to drive faster and the T-800 replies "This is the vehicle's top speed" and the camera goes to the speedo and he's driving just under 65mph😅
Sarah Connors mental state is also very intriguing for a protagonist. She simultaneously views every other person as possibly the last resistance to machine takeover and as completely disposable due to the nuclear fallout depending on the situation
I was wondering why they need to keep Arnie as Terminator and justify his olderness, when they could make him like someone from Skynet staff from whom later Terminators took his likeness.
You mean kind of like what T3 already suggested in the Bonus Features or in-universe "making of" video for the Robots? I will admit that was one of the funnier gags when Arnold gives that whole rundown dubbed over, and then the secretary suggests replacing the voice in Arnold's.
@@papershadow that whole scene was done to make fun that German language Terminator's Ahnold is dubbed because they felt that no one would believe that a super-advanced robot would speak with a hick Austrian accent.
Germans dub everything. Everything. I live on the Danish-German border and know to avoid the films shown on television channels from my southern neighbours. It is very trying…
Another awesome cast. As i've said before, you two are my favorites on youtube. You guys have made this quarantine much much more bearable for me!! Thank you!! Always looking forward to more!!
@@Sentinel82 not yet. The scene slows right down (music and all), Sarah is picking something up that she knocked off the table. He's so close but fails to see her. It's close to then when Kyle is able to identify the T800. Moments later (when he is further away) he targets her with the pistol.
At the atm scene with John and his friend. I’m pretty sure the friend asked “where did you learn to do this stuff anyway?” To John and John says “my mom… my real mom I mean.” Then the friend sees the picture and asks if that was her.
T2 was a really solid sequel but the 90’s action aesthetic can’t hold a candle to 80’s horror.... tech noir scene, the police station (which has to be one of the coolest scenes in movie history) the fact it was all filmed mostly at night, more aggressive soundtrack, arnie as a bad guy, the way he picks up his weapons, the way he takes out everyone in the phone book.....T1 kills it!
Terminator resistance did a great job providing a story that works itself into the lore respectfully, rather than trying to rewrite the lore for it's own medium
Sarah Connor Chronicles - The first season was heavily affected by the writers strike and it lacked a coherhent narrative as a result. However the second season while not great was a definite improvement - but by this point the ratings weren't strong enough to support it and it ended on a cliffhanger. It did have a pretty decent cast and it did try to ask questions that the films don't have time/inclination to ask. How far will Sarah go to protect John and save the future? Do programmed robots have free will? If the future isn't set then are other people sent back the same people you know?
Loved T2. Years later, the thought came up. T-1000(liquid metal) was able to go through, although nothing metal could go through. At the end of the day, loved it then and love it still.
@@vicaldama9314 Well... all of them, I guess... but I was mostly thinking of "How does it feel to have lived long enough to see all of your favouritve franchises go down in flames?"
@@FirstMetalHamster I honestly never get this issue. You can watch what you want. No one forces you to see a sequel or prequel to anything. Besides its a myth. I will do something soon on Nightmare on Elm - could be better but you have a whole complete universe - 5 to 6 films - and it will remain untouched. Why the panic?
@@darkthorpocomicknight7891 after accidnetially seeing a train wreck where there are bodies everyone and you see crushed bodies underneath the overturned train, you can still ride a train. There's no need to let it bother you, yet if you saw a bad train accident with bodies everywhere, you'd never go near a train again
3:14:50 That moment of Arnie shooting behind him is even cooler when you consider he's stealing a glance in the rearview mirror to pinpoint his shot at where the T-1000 is connected to the car.
Club scene in T1 is so good imagine if Sarah doesnt drop something when the terminator is searching for her also Linda Hamilton had a really bad ankle injury in this scene and ran like Usain Bolt what a performance. Sarah Conner is what a real kick ass female lead character should be based on.
After seeing The Terminator in a near empty theater, my friend and I pulled reverse donuts in the parking lot snow for an hour. We were so hyped after the movie, it's hard to describe.
I watched The Terminator in a near empty theater as well. In 1984 Arnold and James Cameron were not the big names they went on to become. You had to be on the nerd scale , before it became fashionable, to see this film.
Sounds like a great time. I long for the day when I go see a film and I’m one of the only people there. I feel like that accentuates the experience, especially for a horror film.
One thing I did love about Salvation is it's ties to the overall lore including the origin of John's scar as well as the Sarah Connor tapes that he listens to.
I miss it when not so great movie sequels could be thrown into the "at least they tried" bucket instead of this current era of culling everything that was once great.
At this point, I'd rather take "lmao, what the fuck were they thinking?" like Highlander 2 with its aliens from the planet Zeist over the modern-day soulless corporate vomit with a side order of radical leftism.
You guys made an excellent point about how sequels should work, they should be connected to the first movie. A big problem with movies now, where a franchise is passed onto a new director who doesn't just ignore the last entry, but rewrites the story and its characters.
This was the first stream I remember Mauler and Drinker being together, many many hours of enjoyment later I thank the algorithm for suggesting I return to relisten.
Back when he actually bothered updating his website, Spoony suggested one of the best potential ideas for a Terminator sequel I've ever come across: >At first, I was thinking something along the lines of “John Connor must die” to save the franchise. From the beginning, the series has been somewhat shackled to the belief that John Connor is this mythical “chosen one” who would rally the last remnants of humanity and lead them against the machines. It’s a cool idea, but perhaps something that’s better left to the imagination. I was, to be blunt, unimpressed with the way Terminator Salvation portrayed Connor as humanity’s savior. Why was he so highly-regarded? What made him such a big damn hero as opposed to the others? Because he gave useless advice to people on the radio? Please. We only know he’s the savior of humanity because people from the future told us that he is. >And that’s what killed John Connor. More assuredly than a T-800 shooting his mother between the eyes, knowledge of Judgment Day irrevocably changed the future. It gave Sarah and John forewarning, allowed them to prepare, and set into motion a chain of events radically different than the original timeline. More terminators were sent back, people died, and John was a completely different person than he was in the original timeline when Judgment Day came around. In fact, when John destroyed Cyberdyne, he delayed the original Judgment Day and the timeline really took it in the ass. Now we’re talking about a completely different war, where Connor might not have been important to the war effort at all! >John Connor was a dead man whether Kyle Reese went back in time or not. You could argue that John would never have been born without the time paradox, but that’s the nature of a time paradox; it’s impossible to find the endpoint of a circle, and it had to start somewhere. >Here’s the real truth about John Connor, the first time around, before any robots were sent back to screw the timeline up: he singlehandedly held an assault base perimeter against a sustained, night-long attack when infiltrator terminators killed nearly everyone else on sentry duty. If not for Connor raising the alarm and holding the perimeter for hours against those insane odds, thousands of refugees might have been overrun and killed. Connor became a symbol of heroism, of courage, and of hope. His name became a rallying cry to inspire others to heroic acts, and his voice on the radio inspired fanatical loyalty and suicidal obedience. >He died about six months later. >He died when HKs plasma bombed his command post two years before Skynet even figured out time travel. Skynet didn’t even know Connor had been killed. Neither did most of the Resistance- there’s no way in hell Resistance Command would let that bit of news out. >Look. John Connor was a great warrior, and an inspiring commander. But he was just a man like any other soldier. He was a hero, no doubt, but let’s face it, he got lucky, and Command exploited his name and embellished his story to legendary proportions because the Resistance needed to boost morale. Things were looking hopeless, and Connor was just the kind of story people could latch onto. But really, it could have been anyone. >In fact, that’s the point. He could be anyone. John Connor is a name and a voice, nothing more. He’s the Uncle Sam on recruiting posters. Right now, HQ has about six John Connors running around whipping the troops into shape, leading forlorn hopes into suicide missions. John Connors are dying all the time. Your average Resistance fighter doesn’t know what he looks like; it’s not like he’s on TV. All they might have heard is that he has a scar over his eye, so when Command sends a guy over to lead them and says it’s Connor, who are they to argue? >Skynet doesn’t know what’s hitting it; it doesn’t have the creativity to think that the Resistance might have created a fictional character. It doesn’t know anything about the value of symbolism or the hope Connor inspires in people. To Skynet, this John Connor bastard is everywhere, and he has to die. >Skynet is wasting its time, chasing a phantom and wasting invaluable resources on a target it believes is pivotal to the human war effort. That suits Resistance Command just fine. The longer Skynet devotes resources to killing a dead man, playing whack-a-mole with the half-dozen Connors in the present, the more unfocused it is and unprepared when the Resistance finishes its preparations to strike its final blow. tl;dr John Connor becomes a meme.
"John Conner is seven feet tall, destroys HK´s by the hundreds, and if HE were here, he would destroy the terminators with fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his arse. [Resistance soldiers laugh] "I AM John Connor!"
Gun to head, writing an alternate T3, I’d make it about old John Connor in our normal “non-destroyed” present day, and about how he responded to successfully stopping Judgment Day, but in the process, leaving him with a meaningless life being on the run from the cops for his association to his terrorist mom. But then a new terminator appears, and is hunting a different person, so John dusts off his old weapons and shows up to help. Unfortunately, the new Terminator hails from a post 2020 era, and is a lot smarter, tech-savvy, and insidious. So person being hunted by terminator, gets rescued by crazy trucker who claims to be an obsolete future-messiah; meanwhile the terminator is spying on them via the internet and is actively teaming up with the police to track down the infamous Sarah Connor’s son.
At around 37:00 minutes, you talk about Michael Biehn and why he kinda disappeared. Well it's because of Alien 3, so in the movie when it says that Hicks died, they use a picture of Michael for a few seconds. The thing is, they didn't have the permissions to use his likeness and when the movie came out, Biehn was so pissed about what they did to his Aliens character that he used the fact they used his likeness without consent to sue the production and got a ludicrous amount of money for those few seconds (I think it was like over a million dollar) and to piss on the production a bit. The thing is, because of that, he got kinda blacklisted from big productions from here, and only got small roles since.
Yeah, he sued them and was paid the same amount the he got for Aliens for them to use his likeness. The original script for Alien 3 was going to have Ripley die and Hicks be the main character. But the original writer got fired and for some reason the two new guys wanted Hicks dead. So he was pissed off at that too.
I remember hearing there were early plans to cast him as the T-1000 to mirror the original, but someone decided that would be too confusing for the audience given the role reversal in tandem with both being identical looking but different characters. Would the Alien 3 incident mentioned have correlated with the timespan for that (since I know A3 had horribly troubled production and thus might have run a while) given their 91-92 release years, or is that just coincidence?
38:56 you guys are talking about Brian Thompson, the guy who was a gloriously campy Shao Khan, a fun Buffalo Bill parody, and a serial killer with a cult and an impractical badass knife in Cobra.
Man, I LOVE this series of videos, but I never have enough time to get through one end to end. Still, happy to contribute to your watch time since the movies and shows you choose for these are on point.
You have to think bigger: there's actually 10000 of them and they all have planet destroying weapons too. And they all get killed by their leader accidentally.
It’s not a bad hey. I watched it recently and is the first out of the Original movies I’ve seen. It had just the right amount of campiness and hard sci-fi. Plus the uniforms were fantastic.
When I was young I loved T2, but much like with Road Warrior and Aliens I saw the sequel first and watched the original later and have come to appreciate it far more the older I got.
Lot of us go that route. But it will make you appreciate the originals. I did the same with Metallica. And justice for all and the black album made me go back and visit the Cliff Burton early albums...
I could have seen the thing with Sarah complaining about just being "the womb" if they brought it together with an arc about how she hates that he would always be the target and would never have a happy fulfilling life.
It was so cheesy sounding at first glance, but that almost makes it more genuine considering that Sarah Connor had lead such a quiet, sheltered life up until that point.
I think if they really wanted to make a decent 3rd film, they should’ve done the future war (I know they did that for T:Salvation). What they should’ve have done is we see all the events of the flashback scenes from the previous two films, it’s this 80s/90s cyber punk film, we also find out that SkyNet created the very paradox of creating and destroying itself, this was always supposed to happen and the end should be the film going full circle of the original Terminator going back in time to 1984 The film ‘trilogy’ is basically an endless paradox
This was a great talk. Listened at UK time and it got a bit too late for me after about 3hrs; didn't think it lasted another 2 more! Great to be able to listen to the rest, thanks drinker.
"This is so perfect" - i feel you, MauLer. So much great about these two movies, cant praise it enough. This stream made me happy, you both are awesome, gents!
This is brilliant, loving the detailed discussion on T1 and T2. Did ye do any more of these or are there similar discussions elsewhere you would recommend?cheers 😎
Preferring first Terminator shouldn't be anything weird. It's more raw, more horror like, 80s synthesizers are all over the soundtrack. It feels less Hollywood-y.
Much like Alien to Aliens. Horror to action. Both great stories told in different genres.
Yeah I can't choose between them. The only thing missing would be a proper conclussion but that will remain in our imagination.
I think it's similar to alien/aliens, slightly different genre mix, that appeals to different tastes, but all around great movies.
Aliens was still tense with plenty of horror though, more faithful to the first.
On the other hand Cameron changed the tone almost completely in T2 Judgement Day. It was a big mistake in my mind, and why i consider T1 by far the best and Cameron's best work.
The first will always be special for me, I remember being a kid probably no older than 10 and seeing it on TV from the point onwards where the terminator was in the motel fixing himself up and cutting into his eye with the scalpel. I didn't know what he or it was or what the movie was but I was horrified and intrigued the moment I saw it. It was an empty house, probably after midnight and in complete darkness, the way I think you should watch a movie like that, completely immersed into what is happening before you.
Objectively speaking T2 is the better movie, but the claustrophobic feel and the suspense of being chased by something you seemingly cannot defeat is very powerful. Not to mention the attention to detail, like the terminator losing his eyebrows and some of his hair when Reese blows up the car after they leave the nightclub, it wasn't explained in any way why he looked a little different or why he changed his hair, but just left to the viewer to put it together and I probably only caught it the 3rd time I watched the movie.
Both, the first terminator and the first Alien movie are my favourites because of the similarities between them. Both are scifi horror in for the most part darkeness against an enemy that is probably going to win as you cannot really think of a way to beat them while watching it, you might think that of course they will, but it also makes you doubt it a little, they're not overly polished movies with a super high budget and thus production quality so you are watching something that feels different to the rest.
One thing I want to bring up from T2 is that I thought that the running Robert Patrick did as the T-1,000 was staged to make him look fast whenever he ran in the movie. But the documentary of the movie revealed that it was HIM that ran so freakishly fast and it wasn't staged. Plus he was fast enough that they had to do extra takes because Robert caught up to Edward Furlong on that bike during filming.
My mind was blown and I appreciated Robert's work soo much more after that.
He has a great little role in the sopranos as well, incase you haven't seen it
Robert Patrick just nailed this role, to think that James Cameron wanted Billy Idol to have the role but he didn’t get it because he was recovering from a motorcycle accident is nuts
The guy looked like he seriously worked out for the role. Very low body fat, no wonder he could run.
That's so cool. I knew Robert did a lot of good things but didn't know that.
TRUE STORY - they asked him just to do one take with his "stare" and was like sure he did the whole turning his head at the audition and that's how he got the role. James Cameron deserves a lot of credit for picking a perfect antagonist.
@@elcapitantommy He wanted OJ Simpson for Terminator 1.
Not sure if anyone talked about this already but their is one neat point a lot of people tend to miss. In T1 when Reese is telling Sarah about the picture. He mentions he always wondered what she was thinking in that moment. At the end when we see the picture is taken. We learn Sarah was thinking about him.
I know, it's a beautiful moment which I hoped would be dicussed. Justa great, big tragic loop. :)
Great point
yeah, i got that. It was uniquely poignant.
Scenes like this one made that movie my all-time favorite.
They dont makes scripts like that anymore folks
The biggest problem with the Terminator franchise: It should never have been a franchise, just the first and second films and that’s it, Just like Alien
They did try to break away and take the story into the future only it did not work. So the next 2 became lame attempts to reboot
@@seanc9520 Salvation was really nice addition to Terminator, mainly because it add something without messing with first two movies.
@@qnebra agreed. Even if what it added was of questionable quality, it did so without touching what came before, so it's a net positive to the franchise
@@zonkrt3463 Also potentialy can be fitted really nice into two first Terminator movies, creating one large time loop.
@@qnebra At the very least, Salvation is the 3rd best movie. Just a large gap between it and the first 2.
I love how the presence of MauLer makes shit like 30 times longer, makes the day feel shorter.
He’s got dat long long mang...
What ever do you mean?
**looks at video length**
Oh.
So he likes to be thorough.
i think the cops burst in firing because the security guards alerted them that it was the same person who killed 18 police officers all those years ago, so maybe the swat were not gonna pull any punches
Exactly. That fact only occurred to me a few days after the stream, sadly.
also, I think the SWAT burst in firing because Arnold just opened fire on everyone with a minigun, about 2 minutes ago, and they probably thought that "zero casualties" was ***we got lucky no one was killed***, not precision gunfire.
suspect is clearly armed and dangerous.
@@slchance8839 100 percent
also, he did open fire on ALL the cops with a minigun about 2 minutes ago, so "armed and dangerous" has been established.
Dyson has the best send off. He realizes he’s the impetus of the killing SkyNet and then later when he’s mortally wounded he tries his best to stay alive to give the police time to get out of the lab before his hand falls on the detonator to blow it up. He tries to save lives while knowing he’s going to die. “I don’t know how much longer I can hold this”. Cops realize it’s a bomb and retreats. Great Dyson send off
His introduction is great. Sarah is interrogating the terminator about who this man is and then we cut to him at home. A lesser movie would have made him some irredeemable corporate suit. Instead we get an optimistic decent family man. They have a really cute scene with his wife and children that makes his later actions all the more meaningful and tragic.
Such an awesome fuckin moment. The WAY he delivers that line with the breathing. Acting!
His heavy breathing was very realistic as well. The actor who portrayed Dyson was in a car crash that resulted in one of his lungs collapsing. He said that's how he was breathing immediately after the accident. So... He told James Cameron since Dyson took a shot to the chest, he would be breathing like that.
@@TalkingThrones a shot to the chest? Sure, ok. But.....i know you saw the film......dude was shot like 8 fuckin times in slow motion, no less.
One thing I never noticed until a recent rewatch of Terminator is that Arnie's "Fuck you, Asshole!" isn't just a random pick; it's actually a call back to the very beginning of the film where he tells the punks to give him their clothes, and one of them says "Fuck you asshole!" Right before he kills them. It's really subtle, I certainly never noticed it, but it's also kind of funny.
Fuck, I never noticed that. And I have watched T1 a million times....
Well….duh
@@Rob-fn1kp The FIRST reply to my comment was someone who had seen Terminator many times admitting he never noticed that. Your reply sucks.
RIP Bill Paxton.
never noticed that. cool.
it seems like a non-verbal cue that shows us how the T800 is gradually learning human behavior with more interaction. (ala, "hasta la vista, babeee")
I remember when Salvation came out, I was talking to a friend that hadn't seen it yet. I told him Anton Yelchin did an amazing job as Kyle Reese. He replied "what, generic 80s action hero?"
I was so confused. I couldn't see how anyone saw his character that way. Kyle isn't macho, or confident, or stoic. He doesn't drop one liners sarcastically as he does macho action man stuff. Kyle is paranoid as fuck, terrified to the point of shitting his pants for the entire film. Borderline abusive to Sarah at first.
I always remembered that conversation with my friend. But it wasn't until years later that Jai Courtenay butchered the character beyond belief in Genisys that I realized, yes, people remember Kyle Reese completely wrong.
Michael Beihn is possibly the most low-key of all 80s action heroes. He’s the anti-Arnie
Also Anton did too good a job. Apparently Bale was angry as he was to be the focus. Might have stopped a sequel to Salvation. Sad.
Kyle Reese might be the only RESISTANCE fighter than actually acts like a guerilla, resistance-type fighter. He spends most of his time running and hiding because that's what you do when you're up against an unstoppable force.
@@darkthorpocomicknight7891 I also appreciate that anton looks like he would become Michael biehn. Much more than jail fuckin courtney
Has anyone else seen Timebomb? He's great and edgy in that too. Plus - Patsy Kensit ... enough said? Above average early 1990s B movie thriller.
When i was a young, my dad let me watch Terminator, Predator, Alien, Aliens, and The Thing. All of these along with the Star Wars films set my standards.
Cheers to you and your pops! My dad also graced me with these amazing films. I think as a kid I may have gotten my dad to buy us matching leather jackets haha.
Epic partnering man ❤
I was raised on all these movie's courteously of my brother.
Good man
I am very much the same. With a list like that it's been pretty much downhill from there for me with just a highlight maybe once a year. Nothing seems like a classic to me anymore and that's not something they necessarily acquire as they age. Some films you just know instantly you will never forget.
Same
If the million pounds question was how many Terminator movies are there, I would still answer "only two"!
Same with Alien.
That’s really it. After T2, I really don’t like Terminator movies. Salvation was kind of okay, getting a future war movie was so-so. But all the others are the exact same movie. Strip away all the gimmicks and how they’ve tweaked the bad terminator and it’s all the same.
@@Shawshankdude2005 Check out The Sarah Connor Chronicles TV series. It sadly ended on a cliffhanger, but it's absolutely brilliant and a worthy continuation from T2
SolarDragon007 Actually I had heard that, I totally forgot about it. I haven’t watched it yet, but yeah, I’ll definitely give it a try.
Agreed. The only two good films.
Terminator Films = Alien Films = Predator Films: 1st one is scary, tense and something is hunting the protagonists. The 2nd one is a lot more action and the protagonists getting more firepower to turn the tables on the monster. Everything else after is probably best forgotten.
Never thought about all those franchises having the same theme/outcome. Makes sense. My only thoughts now are do you still regard a franchise as good when the majority of its films are failures?
@@cmelft2463 I think I am a bit old school; the word franchise, to me, has always been associated to fast food restaurants but there is a similarity between what is happening in Hollywood. (There's a Midnight Edge YT about this in regards to how a restaurants serving steak goes full vegan with rude staff demanding money.)
If the original premise - the essence of the first film - is maintained in all films consistently, it's less about art; it's about giving the customer what they want in the first place.
Like-wise, with McDonald's, true - it's not going to make good with the critics and it's not haute cuisine but you really love a Big MAC
Now, you can have a failure in a franchise - always one bad apple - but if the others can stand on their own, it's fine until the majority are failures, then it will always be tainted even the best performing ones.
It's like there's two KFC's near to me: one is always clean and newer but longer to drive to, the other is untidy, closer and staff a bit rude. Although I like KFC, I dislike that store and choose to ignore it so maybe - with all franchises - you ignore the ones you hate provided the rest of them is good until the majority are not great and then you question the franchise?
@@cmelft2463 "franchise" is marketing language. They were excellent stand-alone films, then miraculously, great sequels. Then the money men and creative B-team came in. Screw "franchises".
Not sure about Predator in that list; but, it was definitely a fun watch that will probably remain watchable for a very long time. Was always disappointed that Bill Paxton didn't get more of the sequel time.
@@dennisearle I think so too, just watched Tombstone and I wished he got a bit more screen time in his prime. Mind you, his turn as the Sarge in the Edge of Tomorrow showed he could have been a great Sarge/Veteran of the Aliens series if they managed to write his survival.
When John Connor (Christian Bale) hot-wired the robot bike in Salvation he should have whispered to himself “Easy money” ... it would have totally made the connection back to T2
Or hacked the keypad into Skynet. Strange they missed that trick.
yes, great idea
Well the fact that he rode motor bikes when he was young, knew how to hack atm's and computers..plus the Guns And Roses..track..
Was more than enough..
My 19yo son recently watched 1-4 for the first time almost back to back.
He couldn’t help but see all of the ways T2 copied T1 and without all the 90s nostalgia for how awesome it was for the time, he actually thought T3 was an equal movie to T2. He even thought the “thanks captain obvious” humor of the T850 was more in line with how a robot would joke.
T2 has Arnold answering with a “yeah” or making a click sound when talking about remote control bombs. T3 is more robotic deadpan. If you can get past the few awful parts it’s actually a really great Terminator movie!
Barely made it though Salvation but that’s when the connection to T2 was thought of.
That movie had no purple lasers. Unforgivable
3:20:00
Sarah: This thing, if it turns on us, will be the worst nightmare you can possibly imagine.
John: Nah, it'll be fine.
"You bring in somebody who's like 'I wanna tell this story,' and you're like "Oh, but... you're in this universe, so you can't really tell _that_ story.' And they're like 'Nope, I'm gonna tell this story.'"
This was a quick line, but I think you actually hit on a very profound truth. Every new movie _has_ to be part of an existing franchise, because brand recognition is the only thing they'll spend that kind of money on. But then they don't want to work within the constraints of lore, continuity, tone, or anything else that had previously been synonymous with that franchise. Then of course they blame the very fans they were trying to court for not excepting their bold new take on the franchise.
Every new movie? Maybe in your sad little lowbrow world.
@@lucasoheyze4597 you know what he means you pedantic smartass
@@lucasoheyze4597 for such a condescending wannabe high brow, your reading comprehension is sorely lacking.
Is he talking about Proud Mary and the Jennifer Garner Proud Mary?
They want to tell their own stories, but it's much more risky to make a whole new IP so those stories have to be shoved into established franchises, even if there's no room in the lore and it turns into a bloated person wearing pants that spill over the belt line, creating a muffin top.
Another one, when the T1000 is impersonating John's foster 'mom', that's the first time it's seen to be capable of imitating people, and it's a throw back to the scene in T1 where Sarah's 'mom' is impersonated by Arnie: but his voice alone.
In THIS scene it's revealed to us that the T1000 can not only impersonate a voice over the phone (a la T1 Sarah's 'mom' scene) but it can also imitate their physical form, to the point where even John's foster Dad doesn't realise he's not sharing the kitchen with his wife.
It steps everything from T1 up a notch beautifully, but again, is another quirk reserved for when you see T2 for the very first time, and probably when it was first released only 5 or so years after the first Terminator.
AND his step mom played Vasquez in Aliens.
I don't know if it's true, but before and even after Terminator came out there were a lot of rumours that Cameron had to have the script partly rewritten because originally the Terminator was more an infiltration unit, like the T-1000 in the second movie. But when Arnold wanted the role that obviously didn't pan, so they made the Terminator this unstoppable killer machine. Following that logic, the original concept would then be used for the T-1000 in Terminator: Judgement Day to combat Arnold's Terminator.
When the T1000 was impersonating the stepmom, he appeared to be preparing dinner. I wonder if a) he can cook and b) would have made dinner to continue the charade if John hadn't called in that moment.
@@chethammer so?
If the original Terminator was made today they would completely ryin Sarah's characters by making her the most generic and flawless female character ever like Captain Marvel and Rey. You guys tag teamed this franchise beautifully btw!
It's so sad that this is so obviously the way it would go. Kyle spends the whole movie getting put in his place and Sarah doesn't need protecting because she is "bada**"
aka Terminator: Genisys
Re watching T2 right now! Thx guys! ❤
@@MarsMellow84 same, haha! But then again I rewatch the first two terminators once every year for the most part.
Yeah, they would probably do something stupid like have her deliver the line “come with me if you want to live” to Kyle Reese. Oh, right, they did all these things already.
Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Terminator, Ghost Busters, the list goes on. They’ve destroyed pretty much everything now.
I agree, I find most contemporary film's boring and predictable.
"Back to the Future" still unmolested but I guess Hollywood executives are calculating reboot profits. I guess it is only a matter of time.
If you take all of those films....... then add TV shows like Star Trek and Doctor Who, then add in all the comics they have destroyed.
Everything I liked growing up has been destroyed.
There's a good chance the MCU will be next.
@@Chaosherold That's a certainty at this point..... Phase 5 looks totally SJW.... Captain Marvel, female Thor, Black Widow film about 7 years too late etc
Regarding the SWAT bursting in guns blazing: Bear in mind that this is just after a minigun opened fire on 20 cops and blew loads of cars up, within a few days of cops and security guards in various places turning up dead, and they're expecting to be dealing with a man they believe to have once shot up a whole police station full of people.
The t1000 was probably dragged into several police briefings and it had to hide as one of them while gathering the full reconesaince of the police force ha... that would be a wierd scene
Yeah, them shooting is a little contrived to kill Dyson, but Arnie just got finished shooting at them for five straight minutes.
Nothing made to be worn can stand up to being hit by the rounds of a minigun. Any cover in the building that would have stop smaller rounds is useless.The SWAT people were actually very brave to go in knowing if the enemy fire first non of them would have a complete body to burry. Shooting first is quite understandable😓
Yeah. I feel like a more aggressive police force/SWAT team would be expected in a world where an entire police station got gunned down. It’s a cool narrative detail that highlights how the existence of a Terminator altered the world.
Are SWAT supposed to shoot second in every engagement, or are they clear to open fire if they know they're dealing with an enemy who is armed and has opened fire? For this discussion, "engagement" could either mean an incident before the suspect's arrest/escape (i.e. the whole Cyberdyne incident), or each exchange of fire (i.e. Arnold destroying the cars is one and then their entry is another)?
I'd also add that besides Arnold and the recent/old Police massacres happening with his face, Sarah is confirmed to be there by an earlier radio report, and based on John's earlier exposition, she ended up in the Mental Asylum not just for her PTSD and Traumatic damages, but because she committed/attempted to commit acts of destructive terrorism in the past. So you have explosions and shots fired in an incident you know to involve an escaped Terrorist Fugitive and a long-missing Police Murderer. Even putting aside procedure, I wouldn't blame a SWAT member's judgement for electing to shoot first for their own safety, considering how much of a risk even entering the building is.
That's his real, full name BTW at 37:45
Michael Where've You Biehn
Here’s a fun fact for you all, I read Arnold’s autobiography ‘Total Recall’ and he said when he was doing the first terminator he gave James Cameron a suggestion of what if The Terminator opens up the fridge in Sarah’s house and finds a beer and drinks it and he gets drunk, apparently Cameron scolded him saying this is a machine he doesn’t drink or get drunk lol
At the end of last year(2020) I showed my 11yr old the first 2 movies back ta back and in the mall she shouted "WAIT! He's the good guy now". And i was so happy for her ta get ta experience that for the first time. And proud as hell that i made it happen. Good show guys
I'm glade spoilers didn't spoil that moment.
Ur a good dad. I'm sure people would say bad idea but I've never forgotten that my parents took me to c T2 in theaters when it came out. I was 8. I had already seen T1 an most of Schwarzenegger's movies. Loved em all he was my favorite actor and to this day I'm appreciative for my parents (my mom really) taking me to c T2 I remember I cried hahaha when he died lol
I hope you don’t help her with her English homework.
the T1000 phasing through the cell bars is absolutely one of THE best vfx shots made. The whole scene leading up to it... the actual effect... but the icing on the cake that REALLY sells it IS that gun as he walks through - it not only re-inforces the gun isn't him, but it truly helps to sell the effect outright - the fantasticality of it all juxtaposed right next to a typical awkward gun snagging moment just helps it all to click in your mind.
As an animator for feature films and tv one of the things we always look to do is find contact points and small ideas that help to sell an effect. I worked years ago on Xmen Apocalypse (terrible film) but one of my first shots was to animate a gun dissolving in the hand of the actor... i animated the bullets falling out of the gun as it dissolved... the director and producers didn't ask for it but after seeing it they felt it really helped to sell the idea so it stayed in :)
When i was animating those bullets the T1000 snagging gun moment was in the back of my mind lol
The best detail about Kyle having his nightmare flashbacks of Hunter Killers (HK's) in T1 is that they get triggered by construction machinery (Cranes and drilling machines). A raw example of human tools, that present day people are used to, being fashioned into some efficient human killing machine in the future.
I honestly prefer T1, T2 is an amazing film but I much prefer the tone, music, aesthetic of T1
Also Kyle Reese is the best and most sympathetic character in the series.
Weeaboocrusher absolutely, I wish Michael Biehn had a more prolific career, an amazing actor
Agreed, T1 was dark, gritty, pessimistic. T2 was a polished, popcorn-munching blockbuster made to have mass appeal. It was loads of fun and a great sequel but there was no darkness to it.
@@Fangface74 Sarah's nightmare was pretty dark and disturbing.
@@Sams.Videos True, but again these were a take on the T1 scenes of Kyle being woken and reminded/motivated by dreams of things that had happened to him;(female comrades being blown apart, survivor groups hunting rats before being infiltrated & annihilated), these were all presented unceremoniously while Sarahs premonition felt almost romanticised, a great scene yes, but it never happened to her, all of Kyles did.
Sarah is also in a way responsible for Kyle’s death. Had she not phoned her mother, the T-800 wouldn’t have pinpointed her and Kyle’s location at the hotel.
Yes, but how would she now the t800 will be there and do different voices.
@@davidrothman5258 i agree. yes and no. She shouldnt have given her location. But TALKING to her mom, and not knowing the T800 could do voices so convincingly, Sarah probably thought that no MOTHER would rat out her child.
It was a terrible mistake, but a very human and understandable one. That is why it's such great writing. She didn't know that the T800 could mimic voices.
that's also how he found her at Tech Noir after killing Ginger and Matt, and she called while he was still there
@@huwguyver4208 Remember though, before it is revealed that The Terminator is impersonating her mother - Sarah is saying on the phone that she was told not to see where she was - and was convinced to eventually reveal the location when Arnie started impersonating a concerned mother and she relented. Then that's when they switch to show that it was Arnold. So it's also written really well showing how he was able to mimic human behavior in a way that could gain him access to his target. Recognize how in T2 then, when John is on the phone with his mother, the Terminator takes the phone and figures out a way to find out whether they are talking to his actual foster mother or the T-1000 because he knows what strategies it would use. He also tells John before that that the T-1000 will definitely try to reacquire him there and when questioned about this, he responds "I would" - another call back to T1
"So, what do you need?"
"A pulse laser rifle in the 10 Megawatt range."
"Just what you see, buddy."
Thought it was a phased plasma rifle in the 40w range
@@Novasky2007 "Don't have that either. Look, let me make it simple: if you can't point at it, we ain't got it, ok? Now, what can I get ya?"
.
I may well be wrong, as it's been years since I saw the film.
Rip Dick Miller
@@Novasky2007 yeah you're right. Pretty sure a measly 40w wouldn't generate enough power for plasma let alone fire something very deadly. I wonder if it was Kw in the script?
Arnie did drop words he couldn't pronounce properly, but i'd imagine Cameron just made up techno babble that sounded cool he's not really known for his love of scientific accuracy
But I guess you could retcon the Phased to mean its Superheated Plasma that is Phase Shifted into the 40wt range inside the riffle to cool it but the plasma shifts back once its been fired. Using a Voltage Lag in its wave frequency. ua-cam.com/video/30J5U0ThRUc/v-deo.html
“ which just made me want to see it all the more” -The Critical Drinker. Gold.
Over time I started to prefer T1 over T2, I think the franchise should've gone back to it's horror roots.
I personaly can't decide. I like the atmosfere of T1 and the pacing is a bit better, but T2 has some of the greatest character moments in movie history.
Absolutely agree about it going back to its horror roots. I kind of even think if you did a new terminator movie it shouldn't even say terminator in the title leave the fact that's what's hunting the person or persons down to be found out in the movie. No studio would ever go for that though
Just like the first two Alien movies, both are masterpieces in their respective genres.
When T2 came out, it felt like the better film but as time passed, I noticed that I was preferring the original more and more. It doesn't help that Edward Furlong's acting in T2 is pretty horrendous at times. Some scenes make me cringe.
The Terminator is the far superior film, despite it's dated effects and low budget.
I just rewatched T1 after listening to this. I hadn’t seen it in a decade or so, and it’s definitely a lot better than I remembered.
I must confess, Genesys is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me. It's like the end-state of all failed reboots and sequels. The point where everyone just starts sending shit back in time from all other timelines and as a result everything just starts to collapse and then John Connor was a terminator and Eleventh Doctor is a robot.
I prefer it over Salvation and Deep Fake. I realise that it is complete nonsense but it is a far more entertaining film, IMO.
It's biggest let down in terms of casting is Kyle Reese's actor. Just awful.
i have a weird relationship with it. every couple months or so i develop i strange curiosity toward it and feel like i should watch it again. so i do and somewhere in the third act i've completely lost interest. however i still finish it, which after i ask myself why i did that and feel absolutely empty
I enjoy the "T1 interruption" parts but that's where I stop the film 😂
I think its main issue is the action is kind of weak. That and establish a multiverse mor effectively. Really cement the idea that T1 and T2 still exist
Hmmm... just re-watched the police station from first movie. The cop that gets told "Watch Him!" and then knocked out by Kyle is probably the only one to survive, which when you think about it is also terrifying.
Imagine waking up on the floor, at first thinking "Shit, the prisoner escaped. I am going to really get it now" and then going out into the rest of the police station.
Great vid. Two things I wanted to point out that didn't come up though.
In T2 to lorry chase in a storm drain is a great callback to the end of T1. The lorry exploding in the first film cripples the T-800, but barely leaves an impact on the T-1000, showing the raised stakes.
In T1 Kyle monologues about the picture of Sarah John gave to him, and how he always wondered what she was thinking in that moment. Flash to the end of the film when the picture is being taken, and she was actually thinking about Kyle. Small detail but so good.
"He says that you're a very beautiful senora. And he's ashamed to ask you for 5 American dollars for this picture. But If he doesn't, his father will beat him."
Good hustle kid, quatro.
@@nomadjensen8276 Veo venir una tormenta!
FYI: In case you didn’t know, the scene of the real Sarah approaching behind the fake Sarah during the final battle looks seamless because it’s not an effect. It’s Linda Hamilton’s twin sister.
Posted this BEFORE you watched the video huh.
Same for the mirror operation scene, honestly go look up how they pulled it off. Absolutely ingenious
And this scene was cut from the theatrical!
Everyone knows this and has for decades.
@@robirvine6970 I'm in the comments after the video, and I don't think they talked about that there. They talked about how Hamilton's twin was used for the mirror scene when they operated on the Terminator, but I don't think they mentioned how she was used for the shotgun scene too.
"Discussing the Terminator Franchise with MauLer" 4 hours and 52 minutes. Seems about right. Still about 28 hours short of your average Efap.
One more thing you will only miss if "you *weren't* there"...
When Arnie takes the sunglasses after the initial bar brawl, it's the finishing touch to him 'completing the look' of the first Terminator.
He's got all the biker gear, he's got the Harley, he's missing the trademark shades. He competes that look effortlessly with 'bad to the bone' playing....
It's (almost) the equivalent of breaking the fourth wall, it's an acknowledgement that somehow the 'new' terminator knows what the 'old' terminator ended up looking like, even though that's impossible.
At the time, T1 wasn't a million years earlier and Arnie was a massive box office hit, so watching him actively "dress up" as the first T1 was purposefullly done with a nod to the fact that this MASSIVE international movie star was rebooting (in a cooler way) his early-career low-budget bad guy persona.
But you had to be there I guess.
Yeah MauLer’s chatting shit with that “it’s to cover his red robot eyes” excuse. It’s just a cool little nod to the audience. No shame in that.
what you say makes sense but i dont think its impossible for new arnie to know how old arnie looked. After all its J. Connor who sends it back and reprograms it. Sarah told John T1 story countless times, so John would know in the future. I know its silly af, i just wanna say that he COULD know.
@@iMORTIsieteVOi No, now you're just reaching. Just leave it be, it's a cute little nod the audience, gives him that familiar iconic look. Why would he want the good robot to look identical to the robot that scared the living shit out of his mother, anyway?
@@spenser9908 i didnt say connor would tell him to dress like that, i just said that new arnie COULD have known, if you cant read is not my fault pal
Sig. Signoe Yeah even saying that is reaching.
A few months ago my best friend and I had a Terminator marathon. I enjoy those two films very much.
“What’s for dinner?”
“plastique”
“hmm sounds nice”
“......... thats nitro glycerin. My Mom taught me the recipe”
And instead of getting a scene of that in Salvation, we see Kyle being taught how to saw the stock off a shotgun by a machine. Waaaaaay cooler.
@@jimkissel2140 Taught him how to use string 😂
@@jimkissel2140 oh shit you're right hahaha. And how to drive.
My mom had a book that shows how to make bombs out of kitchen items
@@606danco Anarchist Cookbook?
Want gritty, 80’s Reese flashback styled sequel set in future war to cancel all these shitty sequels and reboots. Forget intertwining timelines, give me synths and neon and blue lit sets
Agreed! And I think that's what Salvation SHOULD have been. Where were the dogs in that movie? The terror? Leaving the base only at night?
One thing I love about the T2 mini gun scene is afterward, when his casualty count reads "0.0". Because he counts fractional casualties.
Injuries.
Actually the word "casualties" refers to both killed and injured. I only learned this myself a year ago.
Something I caught the last time I watched T1, regarding the photograph-- When Kyle is telling Sarah about the future, he says John had given him a photograph of her: "You seemed sad... I used to always wonder what you were thinking at that moment." And at the end of the film, we are shown what she was thinking about in that photo: The kid snaps the picture right as she finishes narrating to the tape recorder, "...in the few hours we had together, we loved a lifetime." *click* So in that photo she was thinking about how much she loved Kyle. That's a nice touch.
Nice catch there
Interesting thing about predator, Arne defeats the predator with Stone Age human technology.
I’ve watched this 4 times before convincing my friends to watch the 1st and 2nd Terminators. Hot damn such great movies, it’s amazing to see friends who haven’t seen it get enamored with the classics
1983-1987 was a run of movie releases which will never be matched. I wish we had the quality and choice of just one of those years.
You could probably pick 10 movies from that period which would all be better than everything produced from 2000-2021 :)
Tarantino disagrees with you.
This was great! I just finished watching T1 and T2 because of this stream and I am so glad I did! More of these please!...P.S. Michael Biehn will be in an episode of The Mandalorian this fall as a bounty hunter I believe.
They lost me when I saw Arnold in the star glasses. They clearly weren't taking it seriously
I didnt even like that as a kid
I don't know, I thought it was a fun little joke. Important thing to remember is how he's not the villain in that one. That's not to say you shouldn't take things seriously, but I don't think it ruins things like it definitely would have if he did that in the first one. In the context of the movie, I don't see any real issues with a funny little throwback like that
@Peaceful Riots why?
"He's a toaster."
He's a toaster that can kill people easily without a bathtub
What I find hilarious is that on the first take of the T1000 chasing John Connor on his bike Robert Patrick caught up with him 😂
I love how excited the Drinker gets talking about the movies!
Fun thing I noticed about Robert Patrick/T-1000. I recently watched the movie and paid very close attention to his eyes. The only times he blinks is when directly interacting with humans, ie. talking to John's foster parents. When he was in Terminator mode, he never does. A very tiny, but highly impactful detail that just further proves how great this movie is.
Another cool thing about T2 is, the day after John and the T-800 rescue Sarah from the hospital and they're driving out of the city, Sarah says to the T-800 "Keep it under 65 we don't wanna get pulled over" and then later in the film when they're being chased by the T-1000 in the truck on the bridge, John tells the T-800 to drive faster and the T-800 replies "This is the vehicle's top speed" and the camera goes to the speedo and he's driving just under 65mph😅
Sarah Connors mental state is also very intriguing for a protagonist. She simultaneously views every other person as possibly the last resistance to machine takeover and as completely disposable due to the nuclear fallout depending on the situation
I was wondering why they need to keep Arnie as Terminator and justify his olderness, when they could make him like someone from Skynet staff from whom later Terminators took his likeness.
You mean kind of like what T3 already suggested in the Bonus Features or in-universe "making of" video for the Robots? I will admit that was one of the funnier gags when Arnold gives that whole rundown dubbed over, and then the secretary suggests replacing the voice in Arnold's.
@@papershadow that whole scene was done to make fun that German language Terminator's Ahnold is dubbed because they felt that no one would believe that a super-advanced robot would speak with a hick Austrian accent.
Germans dub everything. Everything. I live on the Danish-German border and know to avoid the films shown on television channels from my southern neighbours. It is very trying…
Robert Patrick is a fucking legend.
Another awesome cast. As i've said before, you two are my favorites on youtube. You guys have made this quarantine much much more bearable for me!! Thank you!! Always looking forward to more!!
Arnie overlooking Sarah seated reaching down at the table in the tech noir scene is my fav little part of any of the Terminator movies
Wasn't he aiming a laser sighted gun at her?
@@Sentinel82 not yet. The scene slows right down (music and all), Sarah is picking something up that she knocked off the table. He's so close but fails to see her. It's close to then when Kyle is able to identify the T800. Moments later (when he is further away) he targets her with the pistol.
@@paddykriton3475 Ah ok. Been about a decade since I watched it lol.
It somehow gets on my playlist every couple of years.
@@paddykriton3475 So it should be, I watch it yearly
At the atm scene with John and his friend. I’m pretty sure the friend asked “where did you learn to do this stuff anyway?” To John and John says “my mom… my real mom I mean.” Then the friend sees the picture and asks if that was her.
T2 was a really solid sequel but the 90’s action aesthetic can’t hold a candle to 80’s horror.... tech noir scene, the police station (which has to be one of the coolest scenes in movie history) the fact it was all filmed mostly at night, more aggressive soundtrack, arnie as a bad guy, the way he picks up his weapons, the way he takes out everyone in the phone book.....T1 kills it!
Terminator resistance did a great job providing a story that works itself into the lore respectfully, rather than trying to rewrite the lore for it's own medium
Sarah Connor Chronicles - The first season was heavily affected by the writers strike and it lacked a coherhent narrative as a result. However the second season while not great was a definite improvement - but by this point the ratings weren't strong enough to support it and it ended on a cliffhanger. It did have a pretty decent cast and it did try to ask questions that the films don't have time/inclination to ask. How far will Sarah go to protect John and save the future? Do programmed robots have free will? If the future isn't set then are other people sent back the same people you know?
The dude the T800 kills at the beginning of T1 also played Shao khan in Mortal Kombat
He's the assasin alien in the X-Files franchise
He's also the Night Slasher in Cobra.
Indeed
He's also hercules in jason
He’s also in buffy the vampire slayer season 1 as the masters minion
When Sarah is in the hallway and that music kicks up wit Arnold just Voorhees walking at her...epic.
Loved T2. Years later, the thought came up. T-1000(liquid metal) was able to go through, although nothing metal could go through. At the end of the day, loved it then and love it still.
Yeah it doesn't make a goddamn lick of sense.
Huh
It mimics human flesh. That works. How do we know it works? It's in the movie.
Apparently Biehn is gonna have a very prominent role in season 2 of the Mandalorian
Really? Awesome.
Well, that wasn't exactly prominent. And be fucking died.
Sadly, prominent isn't the right word 🤦♀️
They wasted him, how do you waste Michael fucking Biehn??
I’ll take “comments that didn’t age well” for 500 please, Alex
**sigh**
I fear that RLM quote will never become irrelevant...
" no ones really gone" "endless trash" " fuck you January"?! Which one ?
@@vicaldama9314 Well... all of them, I guess... but I was mostly thinking of "How does it feel to have lived long enough to see all of your favouritve franchises go down in flames?"
@@FirstMetalHamster I honestly never get this issue. You can watch what you want. No one forces you to see a sequel or prequel to anything. Besides its a myth. I will do something soon on Nightmare on Elm - could be better but you have a whole complete universe - 5 to 6 films - and it will remain untouched. Why the panic?
@@darkthorpocomicknight7891 good sequels are nice
@@darkthorpocomicknight7891 after accidnetially seeing a train wreck where there are bodies everyone and you see crushed bodies underneath the overturned train, you can still ride a train. There's no need to let it bother you, yet if you saw a bad train accident with bodies everywhere, you'd never go near a train again
3:14:50 That moment of Arnie shooting behind him is even cooler when you consider he's stealing a glance in the rearview mirror to pinpoint his shot at where the T-1000 is connected to the car.
Never realised that!!!
Thank you, gentlemen. Very interesting and informative.
Hyped me to rewatched T1 & T2. So very glad I did!
Club scene in T1 is so good imagine if Sarah doesnt drop something when the terminator is searching for her also Linda Hamilton had a really bad ankle injury in this scene and ran like Usain Bolt what a performance. Sarah Conner is what a real kick ass female lead character should be based on.
After seeing The Terminator in a near empty theater, my friend and I pulled reverse donuts in the parking lot snow for an hour. We were so hyped after the movie, it's hard to describe.
I watched The Terminator in a near empty theater as well. In 1984 Arnold and James Cameron were not the big names they went on to become. You had to be on the nerd scale , before it became fashionable, to see this film.
Cool friend you have.
Sounds like a great time. I long for the day when I go see a film and I’m one of the only people there. I feel like that accentuates the experience, especially for a horror film.
I always get caught up watching Terminator clips on UA-cam when they come up...
Even though I own the movie!
Weird. The discussion about an old movies between Mauler and Drinker is more entertaining than most movies today.
One thing I did love about Salvation is it's ties to the overall lore including the origin of John's scar as well as the Sarah Connor tapes that he listens to.
I miss it when not so great movie sequels could be thrown into the "at least they tried" bucket instead of this current era of culling everything that was once great.
At this point, I'd rather take "lmao, what the fuck were they thinking?" like Highlander 2 with its aliens from the planet Zeist over the modern-day soulless corporate vomit with a side order of radical leftism.
It's because back then they did try. These days they don't.
I like how the T-1000 pretending to be John's foster mum and prepared dinner for a while.
“Mom, why is there a funny metallic taste off sandwich?”
T1000: the sandwich is fine son, the sandwichses just fine….
Good chat! Thanks for giving me something to listen to while I labored on projects at home, guys.
Just learned that when funny accent people ask "How are you?", they actually expect an answer besides "good"
What we were seeing was a person with a vision, and put their heart into it! A story needs someone to put their soul into it to make it great!
Watching The Terminator and T2, back to back? Sounds like a GREAT MOVIE NIGHT.
You guys made an excellent point about how sequels should work, they should be connected to the first movie. A big problem with movies now, where a franchise is passed onto a new director who doesn't just ignore the last entry, but rewrites the story and its characters.
Five hours.
A great compliment to both Ts and to the fans of great stories and great storytelling.
Bravo!
Reading the comments I'm glad to see people who actually preferred the first Terminator movie.
I prefered the first 1 as well, though I can't articulate why exactly.
T2 is the better fim overall tho lmao.
This was the first stream I remember Mauler and Drinker being together, many many hours of enjoyment later I thank the algorithm for suggesting I return to relisten.
T1 and T2 are Both great masterpieces of Filmmaking and storytelling
Back when he actually bothered updating his website, Spoony suggested one of the best potential ideas for a Terminator sequel I've ever come across:
>At first, I was thinking something along the lines of “John Connor must die” to save the franchise. From the beginning, the series has been somewhat shackled to the belief that John Connor is this mythical “chosen one” who would rally the last remnants of humanity and lead them against the machines. It’s a cool idea, but perhaps something that’s better left to the imagination. I was, to be blunt, unimpressed with the way Terminator Salvation portrayed Connor as humanity’s savior. Why was he so highly-regarded? What made him such a big damn hero as opposed to the others? Because he gave useless advice to people on the radio? Please. We only know he’s the savior of humanity because people from the future told us that he is.
>And that’s what killed John Connor. More assuredly than a T-800 shooting his mother between the eyes, knowledge of Judgment Day irrevocably changed the future. It gave Sarah and John forewarning, allowed them to prepare, and set into motion a chain of events radically different than the original timeline. More terminators were sent back, people died, and John was a completely different person than he was in the original timeline when Judgment Day came around. In fact, when John destroyed Cyberdyne, he delayed the original Judgment Day and the timeline really took it in the ass. Now we’re talking about a completely different war, where Connor might not have been important to the war effort at all!
>John Connor was a dead man whether Kyle Reese went back in time or not. You could argue that John would never have been born without the time paradox, but that’s the nature of a time paradox; it’s impossible to find the endpoint of a circle, and it had to start somewhere.
>Here’s the real truth about John Connor, the first time around, before any robots were sent back to screw the timeline up: he singlehandedly held an assault base perimeter against a sustained, night-long attack when infiltrator terminators killed nearly everyone else on sentry duty. If not for Connor raising the alarm and holding the perimeter for hours against those insane odds, thousands of refugees might have been overrun and killed. Connor became a symbol of heroism, of courage, and of hope. His name became a rallying cry to inspire others to heroic acts, and his voice on the radio inspired fanatical loyalty and suicidal obedience.
>He died about six months later.
>He died when HKs plasma bombed his command post two years before Skynet even figured out time travel. Skynet didn’t even know Connor had been killed. Neither did most of the Resistance- there’s no way in hell Resistance Command would let that bit of news out.
>Look. John Connor was a great warrior, and an inspiring commander. But he was just a man like any other soldier. He was a hero, no doubt, but let’s face it, he got lucky, and Command exploited his name and embellished his story to legendary proportions because the Resistance needed to boost morale. Things were looking hopeless, and Connor was just the kind of story people could latch onto. But really, it could have been anyone.
>In fact, that’s the point. He could be anyone. John Connor is a name and a voice, nothing more. He’s the Uncle Sam on recruiting posters. Right now, HQ has about six John Connors running around whipping the troops into shape, leading forlorn hopes into suicide missions. John Connors are dying all the time. Your average Resistance fighter doesn’t know what he looks like; it’s not like he’s on TV. All they might have heard is that he has a scar over his eye, so when Command sends a guy over to lead them and says it’s Connor, who are they to argue?
>Skynet doesn’t know what’s hitting it; it doesn’t have the creativity to think that the Resistance might have created a fictional character. It doesn’t know anything about the value of symbolism or the hope Connor inspires in people. To Skynet, this John Connor bastard is everywhere, and he has to die.
>Skynet is wasting its time, chasing a phantom and wasting invaluable resources on a target it believes is pivotal to the human war effort. That suits Resistance Command just fine. The longer Skynet devotes resources to killing a dead man, playing whack-a-mole with the half-dozen Connors in the present, the more unfocused it is and unprepared when the Resistance finishes its preparations to strike its final blow.
tl;dr John Connor becomes a meme.
Where's your idea hidden in that essay?
@@Ario2547 Not his idea.
"John Conner is seven feet tall, destroys HK´s by the hundreds, and if HE were here, he would destroy the terminators with fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his arse.
[Resistance soldiers laugh]
"I AM John Connor!"
Gun to head, writing an alternate T3, I’d make it about old John Connor in our normal “non-destroyed” present day, and about how he responded to successfully stopping Judgment Day, but in the process, leaving him with a meaningless life being on the run from the cops for his association to his terrorist mom. But then a new terminator appears, and is hunting a different person, so John dusts off his old weapons and shows up to help. Unfortunately, the new Terminator hails from a post 2020 era, and is a lot smarter, tech-savvy, and insidious. So person being hunted by terminator, gets rescued by crazy trucker who claims to be an obsolete future-messiah; meanwhile the terminator is spying on them via the internet and is actively teaming up with the police to track down the infamous Sarah Connor’s son.
At around 37:00 minutes, you talk about Michael Biehn and why he kinda disappeared.
Well it's because of Alien 3, so in the movie when it says that Hicks died, they use a picture of Michael for a few seconds. The thing is, they didn't have the permissions to use his likeness and when the movie came out, Biehn was so pissed about what they did to his Aliens character that he used the fact they used his likeness without consent to sue the production and got a ludicrous amount of money for those few seconds (I think it was like over a million dollar) and to piss on the production a bit.
The thing is, because of that, he got kinda blacklisted from big productions from here, and only got small roles since.
Yeah, he sued them and was paid the same amount the he got for Aliens for them to use his likeness. The original script for Alien 3 was going to have Ripley die and Hicks be the main character. But the original writer got fired and for some reason the two new guys wanted Hicks dead. So he was pissed off at that too.
I heard he was cast in something recently can’t remember what but I remember thinking ah there he is
The bigest thing he did after i feel it was Crash. I remember its dramatic red poster. Apparently it had high expectations and it tanked.
Can't blame him for being pissed
I remember hearing there were early plans to cast him as the T-1000 to mirror the original, but someone decided that would be too confusing for the audience given the role reversal in tandem with both being identical looking but different characters.
Would the Alien 3 incident mentioned have correlated with the timespan for that (since I know A3 had horribly troubled production and thus might have run a while) given their 91-92 release years, or is that just coincidence?
38:56 you guys are talking about Brian Thompson, the guy who was a gloriously campy Shao Khan, a fun Buffalo Bill parody, and a serial killer with a cult and an impractical badass knife in Cobra.
He was legit scary in Cobra.
T2 hits me emotionally every time
Man, I LOVE this series of videos, but I never have enough time to get through one end to end. Still, happy to contribute to your watch time since the movies and shows you choose for these are on point.
Terminator 7: A Terminator that can’t look up or know which direction up is and is therefore defeated because of it.
Rise of Terminator?
Palpinator?
The Final Skynet?
Starterminator Base?
Let me know if any of these are keepers, I've got more
You have to think bigger: there's actually 10000 of them and they all have planet destroying weapons too. And they all get killed by their leader accidentally.
Great podcast guys love you both keep up the great work hopefully Hollywood will listen to your thoughtful suggestions.
Star Trek The Motion Picture is great. Slow paced, but worth a watch.
Star Trek is now a major motion picture...?
It’s not a bad hey. I watched it recently and is the first out of the Original movies I’ve seen. It had just the right amount of campiness and hard sci-fi. Plus the uniforms were fantastic.
I like Star Trek The Slow Motion Picture as well. The story is great but the pacing is terrible.
It’s not nearly as bad as people claim, it’s ok, as are the rest of the odd number trek films, not terrible but totally serviceable
It's a bit to epic for some
Fantastic gentlemen. So glad I stumbled upon this today. 2 of the very best on you tube
When I was young I loved T2, but much like with Road Warrior and Aliens I saw the sequel first and watched the original later and have come to appreciate it far more the older I got.
Lot of us go that route. But it will make you appreciate the originals. I did the same with Metallica. And justice for all and the black album made me go back and visit the Cliff Burton early albums...
My two favorite UA-camrs. We need more of these collaborations...
I could have seen the thing with Sarah complaining about just being "the womb" if they brought it together with an arc about how she hates that he would always be the target and would never have a happy fulfilling life.
That "On your feet, soldier" line broke me. Ah man did it fucking break me. So damn good.
It was so cheesy sounding at first glance, but that almost makes it more genuine considering that Sarah Connor had lead such a quiet, sheltered life up until that point.
I think if they really wanted to make a decent 3rd film, they should’ve done the future war (I know they did that for T:Salvation). What they should’ve have done is we see all the events of the flashback scenes from the previous two films, it’s this 80s/90s cyber punk film, we also find out that SkyNet created the very paradox of creating and destroying itself, this was always supposed to happen and the end should be the film going full circle of the original Terminator going back in time to 1984
The film ‘trilogy’ is basically an endless paradox
This was a great talk. Listened at UK time and it got a bit too late for me after about 3hrs; didn't think it lasted another 2 more! Great to be able to listen to the rest, thanks drinker.
"This is so perfect" - i feel you, MauLer. So much great about these two movies, cant praise it enough.
This stream made me happy, you both are awesome, gents!
agreed! Love these two guys!
This is brilliant, loving the detailed discussion on T1 and T2. Did ye do any more of these or are there similar discussions elsewhere you would recommend?cheers 😎
There is like 32 of these on his channel