T28 was the first airplane I have ever been upside down in. It is a heavy bird. He needed to be much, much higher before attempting that maneuver. R.I.P
@@calebrosenhauch4296 He didn't pull up, he wasn't fast enough, so as he went inverted the aircraft could not maintain the AOA and he essentially lost control and nose dived into the ground. With enough altitude he could have just continued the roll and leveled out. But unfortunately, he did not. Unfortunate.
I have about 200 hr in the T28, its a heavy plane with short small wings, my trainer stated once that in perfect conditions, you need about 540m of vertical space for a manuver like this due to the relative short wings that affects how much air pressure is on the bottom of the wing. Also some people have questions about the engine sound, that is how its sounds, it was not stalling on the flyover. Iam open for questions about the airplane if anyone is interested. Also RIP
You don't need 540m to do a barrel roll! LMAO! Your trainer is an idiot. He had plenty of height for someone competent in aerobatics to perform a barrel roll. He failed to establish a sufficient nose up attitude in the first quarter of the roll, and also failed to relax the back pressure on the stick during the time he was inverted. Your comment about relatively short wings affecting how much air pressure is on the bottom of the wing, and referring to altitude as "vertical space" leads me to believe that your 200 hours in anything is on a computer with a plastic joystick.
So basically, the pilot performed the manover without enough altitude. Roll rate did look slow, I'm not familiar with the T28 Would like to know your input. Thanks
Somebody flies a T-28 over the San Francisco East Bay regularly. I dart out to my roof deck any time I hear a radial or military jet engine. For whatever reason, maybe the combination of exhaust stacks, the T-28's have the worst sounding radials I have ever heard. I sat in one in a hangar in Sonoma and that is a huge airplane.
@@kimmer6"Beauty" is in the "eye" of the beholder, I guess. The USAF was training Vietnamese pilots in the T-28 at Keesler AFB where I was stationed in 1971. I've always liked the distinctive throaty growl of the T-28.
Does it have an airfoil that performs well inverted? I've only done aileron rolls in a Decathlon, which of course is nearly as happy inverted as upright, unlike the straight Citabria.
In the early 1960s I trained in this aircraft over Pensacola The aircraft was restricted against aileron rolls (& hammerhead stalls). Perhaps reading the Navy's gouge would have prevented this disaster. RIP.
That's interesting that a trainer would be restricted against aileron rolls. Seems like they're a very basic maneuver for a military pilot. Do you mean none are to be attempted, or none below a certain altitude? As a pilot with zero T-28 time, I saw in this video a pilot who may not have had sufficient speed and/or didn't push the stick forward enough when he got to the inverted psn of the maneuver. Please enlighten me.
@@88mike42 Almost any aircraft can do an aileron roll, and most lose altitude. How much altitude they lose depends on the aircraft's power to weight ratio, airspeed, pilot technique, and other factors. Most people do rolls at altitude, and if you lose a bit more than you expected, no problem, you just just end up lower. If you do a roll close to the ground, and make a slight mistake, you can end up dead like we saw in this video. It's sadly and tragically common. For some reason, pilots are attracted to low level aerobatics like moths to a light on a summer night. Who are we trying to impress? No one on the ground says "oh my gawd - that is so awesome!" - they either say "meh, that airplane did a thing" if they don't know much about flying, or they say "what an idiot - he came so close to dying" if they are experienced pilots. I sincerely hope we learn from this and the many other senseless crashes we see on YT and don't repeat them.
@@88mike42 That's exactly what I was thinking. More forward stick when inverted and more speed and/or power may have prevented this tragic crash. But, I'm only speculating. I do not have any experience in flying the T-28 nor a lot of aerobatic experience either.
This maneuver started as an aileron roll and morphed into a barrel roll. When entering the inverted part of the barrel roll, one has to either roll faster or decrease the back pressure on the stick (or both) to keep the nose from falling too low. Performing this maneuver at altitude can not give you an appreciation for how much altitude is lost in an incorrectly flown barrel roll. (As demonstrated in the video) The killer piece of information the aerobatic pilot has to have in this case is how the pitch rate of the airplane changes when inverted and pulling Gs. Straight and level a G meter reads 1 G. That 1 G is referred to as God's G. If a pilot pulls up with 3 Gs on the meter the plane only pitches with 2 Gs. If the same maneuver is done inverted the plane pitches with 4 Gs. You get a "bonus" 2 G pitch addition when inverted. At altitude this extra pitch rate can be a surprise but at low altitude, in this case, it proved deadly. Check the extreme nose down pitch attitude at the end. In "old school" dogfighting (before all aspect air to air missiles) this God's G effect is why a fighter pilot would like to pounce on an adversary from above so as to have that 2 G advantage.
Someone died here save it for the investigation it's not the platform to show off your knowledge... How didn't you see that The world has no empathy anymore
So your saying fighter pilots would pounce from above inverted. Remember, to get negative g you have to push, even to hold altitude inverted. So diving from above they’d need to be inverted and pushing. Not much of an advantage?
Unlike an straight aileron roll a low level super slow roll such as this requires much input from both sides of the rudder and elevator during stages of the roll to maintain lift. When it comes to cordinating a slow role, this was a complete mess.
The T-28 is a heavy bird. Those pilots had a quick backpack deployment chute when used in flight training at Whiting Field NAS. Those planes date back to the early 1960s and were flown off the USS Lexington aircraft carrier.
The first one was flown in 1949 with production beginning in 1950 and they were phased out by the early 60s. It was the T-6 replacement. The last active aircraft was retired in 1984.
Not sure about that "quick deployment chute", best i remember it was a standard round canopy. At least it was at VT-3 in the early 70's. Bailing out is a pain, unbuckle, blow the canopy, squat in the seat with hands on rail then summersault out.
Amellett, hogy maga az eset is nagyon szomorú, én nagyon sajnálom a jelenlévőket is, főleg gyerekeket, akikben ez egy komoly trauma lehet. Én tini koromban nagyon sokszor voltam repülőnapon, imádtam. Azóta hobbipilóta lettem motoros siklóernyőn. Biztos vagyok benne, hogy másképpen alakul az én szenvedélyem is, ha egy ilyen esetnek a szemtanúja vagyok.
@tamastabi3182 I hear you brother Hungarian. Yes, I've also like airshows, this was a terrible tragedy. I also pray for his wife and children.. Isten a'ldjon meg..!
I used to fly aerobatics - before kids when I had plenty of money to burn. As soon as I saw that roll start in this clip and put my hands on my face and said, "No! Don't do it!!!" Low level aileron rolls are only for expert aerobatic pilots. A very good aileron roll doesn't feel natural in the shoulders, lap straps and ass. You have to fly them solely with control pressures and eyes. Or else... I've seen many, many good pilots dish out this maneuver, which is why I'd only demonstrate them to these guys at 5000' a.g. So sad to see this clip. It didn't have to go this way...
My first ever attempt to roll ended badly with the horizon "dropping" out of view behind the panel when I was inverted. Had to abort, dump brakes and pull out straight. There is a good reason one starts doing these things with plenty of room to spare.
Plus doing something like this low level roll in such a heavy aircraft is a deathwish. Maybe you'd get away with it in an extra but definitely not a T-38
As an aside. A good friend of mine living in Texas at the time, had purchased a T-28 from a private seller in California. The aircraft was to be flown to Texas, but during the flight takeoff, the engine seized, and subsequently the aircraft ran off the end of the runway and sustained damage. The reason for the engine not operating properly, was that a previous incident where the aircraft was collided with something, had caused damage to a propeller bearing shaft, which either was seizing or seized. This previous damage to the engine was not part of the information on the pre-sale of the aircraft, and that my friend would have never bought an aircraft like that with damage to an engine that would require a expensive above cost repair. Plus whoever attempted to deliver it, either didn't know the previous damage to the engine, or had crossed their fingers. Anyway, my friend got his money back, and then purchase a Bellanca.
I've got 100 hrs of Navy training time in the T-28, so I can only guess. Some airplanes and jets, when you pull the stick hard over, will do a perfect aileron roll about the longitudinal (fore/aft) axis of the aircraft without any corresponding requirement for nose up/nose down adjustment. The T-28 is NOT that way! Roll and pitch have to be managed precisely throughout the maneuver by the pilot to effect a perfect 'Blue Angels' aileron roll. It doesn't appear to me that that was the case, but I'll say no more less I'm wrong.
I think the engine was fine. If you don't do aileron ("victory") rolls a LOT in a T-28, it's real easy to confuse or forget that as you start the roll you've gotta push the nose down some then take it out the instant you go inverted and start coming out of the roll. That low to the ground there's no chance for a "now tell me how to do that again". I fly a lot on a flight sim (including flying the T-28) and have found that without true 3D vision and the sensation of changing G-forces, it's about impossible to do accurate aerobatics on a flight sim. With respect to the crash, my comments are ENTIRELY a guess.
@@Amatronix999 Nope, I have heard many T-28's on low passes, and that is exactly how they normally sound. The engine almost sounds like it's skipping, but it's normal.
Very sad event. I guess the experience of the pilot was limited? Each aircraft has it's flying characteristics, and at low level, you don't get much time to correct. I am sorry that the pilot will not get another chance to correct the mistake. RIP for those involved.
Either pitch up to at least 45 degrees bevor starting withe the aileron roll, or you need a higher roll rate. Since higher roll rates are not possible with this aircraft, only the first option comes into question. Unless you do this maneuver at high altitude.
You can fly this maneuver at this altitude without any problems, but first you have to pitch up strongly as I wrote. You don't necessarily want to come out of the roll in a nose down position, even at high altitude. I know what I'm talking about, I did extreme aerobatics for 15 years with the Extra 330 SC and many other aircraft up to the L-29 and L-39 jets.
It also appears that he was attempting a slow roll? A T-28 can go around much quicker from what I remember of flying them years ago. His IAS was up, his initial pitch up not quite enough imo , but then the roll rate seemed incredibly slow.
ua-cam.com/video/EejOvo4g3eA/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared EDIT: I originally incorrectly used the term "slow roll" below...I now have changed it to "aileron roll": This video clearly illustrates that you need to initiate an aileron roll in the T-28 with a ~40 degree nose-up attitude, in order to be sure of not losing overall altitude during the maneuver. The crashed T-28's aileron roll may not have been survivable regardless of control inputs at the end, because he didn't initiate the maneuver with a ~40 degree nose-up attitude.
Your describing an aileron roll where no tail inputs are required. But a slow roll such as this requires top side tail inputs from both the rudder and the elevator. Imagine flying inverted. You apply top side elevator. A slow roll such as this has lengthy knife edge and inverted components which require top side inputs to keep the nose up during the relevant moments. A 28 can pull it off but requires excellent skills and at these low levels there is literally no room for error. As this video well😊😊 demonstrates.
@@jerrysmith5782To do a slow roll from that attitude, a pilot really needs to be heavy handed and have good timing on the elevator and rudder to keep the nose up. Initially, the pilot climbed before the maneuver, which was good, but in doing it he lost speed, so added to the pilot falling out of roll.
@@covercalls88 - Several pilots have commented above on the flying errors the pilot, apparently, made, so I won't repeat them. The first and the worst one he made, in my opinion, was to initiate a prohibited maneuver at low altitude in possibly, the WORST airplane he could have chosen for that maneuver ! Who can understand this kind of person's behavior ? I can't.
Just had to barrel roll. Couldn’t just fly gracefully by. As if people never seen an acrobatics display. Rare planes like the Trojan and Mohawk shouldn’t be allowed to do aerobatic displays.
I agree. Too many rare and valuable machines - not mention LIVES- seem to be lost when there is really no need to do anything more than demonstrate the machine in a sedate way. The noise a T-28 makes is alone worth a flyby and a climb out. Maybe it's the demands of the era; everything has to be bigger, better .... So tragic and disheartening.
Same thing happened in martinsburg wv in 2011. A t-28 tried that same maneuver but crashed. Some people said the pilot had a heart attack during the flight though
I wonder if that maneuver was practiced in that airplane at that entry speed up around 5000 feet above the ground a couple times, first? Each time, noting start altitude, lowest altitude and end altitude. Then only try it low-level knowing the lowest possible altitude to begin the maneuver, plus a healthy margin for error. Or was it just done on a whim? Looking up the aileron roll maneuver, the nose should have been on the horizon at 180 degrees of roll (inverted point). In the video, it looked like the nose was significantly below the horizon at that point. I don’t know how fast the T-28 can roll, but at that point, nose down, it would seem that maximum roll rate to wings level, upright was needed…and then a stiff pull back, avoiding an accelerated stall, to avoid the ground. It all might not have been possible at that altitude once at that inverted attitude.
@@burlatsdemontaigne6147 looked more like he was rolling way too slow and then going panic mode as he realized he was too low on a downward slope upside down.
Hey Gabor, do you have an email address we can use to contact you regarding this video? I'd love to discuss a license to use this if possible! Cheers, Felix
when the plane was still inverted, the pilot pulled up on the stick, pushing the plane to the ground. then pulled harder as the plane exited inverted, but too late by then and possibly power-on stall in last seconds of flight.
Pitch and unload before roll. Forward stick pressure. Folks always panic and pull on their back. Proper instruction in unusual attitudes and aerobatic flight. Tragic.....but so common. My condolences to the families.
My Dad did a barrel roll in his Beech Musketeer at about 500 feet over our drop zone where he had flown jumpers all day. Bless his heart he put up with our skydiving nonsense and wanted give us a show as he departed for home. He pulled it off unlike this video but guarantee he wouldn't do it again.
My Dad took me to a Air Crash Show once, 3 people died, or actually they fried. After that I preferred going to the Aviation Museum instead as well building model airplanes.
That nose should have been up about 30 degrees before initiating that roll. That would have translated to about 30 degrees nose down at the exit. Failure to enter the roll in the correct attitude caused a steep nose down recovery without sufficient altitude. He still might have save it by applying forward stick while inverted and focusing in rolling through. Instead I saw the aircraft severely loaded through the second half of the roll. There was never room for that choice.
He didn’t raise the nose anywhere near high enough prior to beginning the aileron roll. Another 10 degrees of pitch he’d probably have been fine, but flying an airshow routine is no place to learn the basics of an aileron roll. When learning aerobatics the lowly aileron roll is the first maneuver you’ll learn and his is the most common mistake made. Sad for him and his family.
He would have made if he increased the roll rate and pushed the stick forward during the inverted section of the roll. Imagine flying inverted your push for more angle of attack (lift). In this case the pilot panicked and actually pulled while he was still rolling out, which exasibated his problems. It really was a poorly executed roll, and at such low level in a big old heavy plane he had little margine for error.
@@chipcity3016 Increasing roll rate would have been good but even better would be to fast roll into the other direction because that was still closer to get upright again. Push stick slightly forward, center-position, counter-roll, then pull hard backward when the plane is at 90° again and finish the roll to get altitude
@@uncannysnakethe T28 is a heavy bird with momentum. I m not sure he could increase the roll rate. I’m not a T28 pilot so it s possible I don’t know what i m talking about
@@chipcity3016 - JohnSYoungJr - Earnie Gann's excellent book, "Fate Is The Hunter", explained how fatal airplane crashes (and other types of fatal accidents or events) - ref. the Titanic's crashing into an iceberg) are usually the result of numerous man made human errors and seemingly, random events that all seem to line up to create a fatal crash, or as some would say : "fate" caused the fatal event. However, this pilot, as already noted by several commentors, made a number of judgement errors and mistakes that led him into this crash. If the pilot had not made his initial error to do an aileron roll at too low of an altitude, or, if he had corrected any one of his flying errors executing the roll properly. He might, possibly have saved his loss of control during his aborted roll that killed him. The U.S. Navy placarded the T28 against low altitude aileron rolls and hammerhead stalls for very good reasons. Still, he may have been able to survive this fatal event, if he hadn't compounded his initial error in judgement by not executing the maneuver properly. So the multiple errors this pilot made all created his tragic and fatal crash, and he paid the terrible ultimate price that aviation often measures out to it's players that push their limits. To all of this pilot's family and friends, may your present sorrow, sadness, and grief, be lessened in time and replaced by the joy of remembering the many happy times you shared with your loved one.
clearly it's not the pilots first time flying the plane... but did he never try this stunt before?? why would he attempt the maneuver without having enough altitude if he was familiar with it at all
This is so sad... I saw this happen at Biggin Hill many years ago....it was surreal...silence descended and everyone quietly made their way to the exit. I just felt no one should die to entertain the crowd... I never went to another air show
@@acerimmer1023 People have died engaging in literally every form of entertainment/competition/activity known to man. Have you stopped watching every activity on earth?
@@acerimmer1023 I don’t presume anything , but I can tell you one observation I have made …. you and many like you have become soft and weak..people die every day , so toughen up , you might need to take care of business someday when shit gets real , but maybe I’m just being too harsh.
So true. But his U.S. Navy flight manual did warn him not to roll his beloved T28 Trojan at low altitude. Breaking the rules in aviation is not conducive to a long life.
Very sad! Everyone makes mistakes, some being big ones! It's difficult to judge someone who perished:(, but as soon as he saw that the roll rate isn't high enough to finish, he should've pushed the stick all the way forward when he was on the upside down part of the roll to try and reduce the downward rotation of the plane's velocity vector for as much as possible and remain with higher altitude after the roll was finished to pull up from. He panicked when he remained with 90 degrees of roll left and started pulling hard on the stick. Indeed pulling before being wings level help according to the remaining roll angle and is better than nothing, but it wasn't enough for him here. RIP!:(
Correct. The Doppler shift phenomenon makes the engine sound like it is operating at higher RPMs as it approaches stationary listeners to it's sound, and, then, it sounds like it is running at a slower speed as the airplane engine (in this case) moves away from the crowd. Situation normal. Racing cars sound the same, with a higher pitched engine whine as they speed by the stationary fans, and a seemingly lower pitch, as they speed away.
Was it the 7 cylinder Jacobs or 9 cylinder Wright? sounded like the smaller. These were developed as trainers for F86 jets. Cockpit was apparently identical.
That is the T-28 C, with the tailhook. The Navy had the B & C with a 1400 hp Wright, and the Army & Air Force had the A model with the 800 hp Wright and 2-blade prop. The smaller cowling gives the A away even in the air from a distance and even if repainted in Navy livery.
T28 was the first airplane I have ever been upside down in.
It is a heavy bird.
He needed to be much, much higher before attempting that maneuver.
R.I.P
My first, too.
also he messed it up. he pulled up before he was right side up. easy mistake to make...
@@calebrosenhauch4296 He didn't pull up, he wasn't fast enough, so as he went inverted the aircraft could not maintain the AOA and he essentially lost control and nose dived into the ground. With enough altitude he could have just continued the roll and leveled out. But unfortunately, he did not. Unfortunate.
@@Keys879 He pulled BACK!
He definitely pulled back on that stick
I have about 200 hr in the T28, its a heavy plane with short small wings, my trainer stated once that in perfect conditions, you need about 540m of vertical space for a manuver like this due to the relative short wings that affects how much air pressure is on the bottom of the wing. Also some people have questions about the engine sound, that is how its sounds, it was not stalling on the flyover. Iam open for questions about the airplane if anyone is interested. Also RIP
You don't need 540m to do a barrel roll! LMAO! Your trainer is an idiot. He had plenty of height for someone competent in aerobatics to perform a barrel roll. He failed to establish a sufficient nose up attitude in the first quarter of the roll, and also failed to relax the back pressure on the stick during the time he was inverted. Your comment about relatively short wings affecting how much air pressure is on the bottom of the wing, and referring to altitude as "vertical space" leads me to believe that your 200 hours in anything is on a computer with a plastic joystick.
So basically, the pilot performed the manover without enough altitude. Roll rate did look slow, I'm not familiar with the T28 Would like to know your input. Thanks
Somebody flies a T-28 over the San Francisco East Bay regularly. I dart out to my roof deck any time I hear a radial or military jet engine. For whatever reason, maybe the combination of exhaust stacks, the T-28's have the worst sounding radials I have ever heard. I sat in one in a hangar in Sonoma and that is a huge airplane.
@@kimmer6"Beauty" is in the "eye" of the beholder, I guess.
The USAF was training Vietnamese pilots in the T-28 at Keesler AFB where I was stationed in 1971. I've always liked the distinctive throaty growl of the T-28.
Does it have an airfoil that performs well inverted?
I've only done aileron rolls in a Decathlon, which of course is nearly as happy inverted as upright, unlike the straight Citabria.
In the early 1960s I trained in this aircraft over Pensacola The aircraft was restricted against aileron rolls (& hammerhead stalls). Perhaps reading the Navy's gouge would have prevented this disaster. RIP.
That's interesting that a trainer would be restricted against aileron rolls. Seems like they're a very basic maneuver for a military pilot. Do you mean none are to be attempted, or none below a certain altitude? As a pilot with zero T-28 time, I saw in this video a pilot who may not have had sufficient speed and/or didn't push the stick forward enough when he got to the inverted psn of the maneuver. Please enlighten me.
Probably aileron rolls rather than barrel rolls. I'm guessing that they didn't have proper inverted fuel and oil systems. @@88mike42
@@88mike42 Almost any aircraft can do an aileron roll, and most lose altitude. How much altitude they lose depends on the aircraft's power to weight ratio, airspeed, pilot technique, and other factors. Most people do rolls at altitude, and if you lose a bit more than you expected, no problem, you just just end up lower. If you do a roll close to the ground, and make a slight mistake, you can end up dead like we saw in this video. It's sadly and tragically common. For some reason, pilots are attracted to low level aerobatics like moths to a light on a summer night. Who are we trying to impress? No one on the ground says "oh my gawd - that is so awesome!" - they either say "meh, that airplane did a thing" if they don't know much about flying, or they say "what an idiot - he came so close to dying" if they are experienced pilots.
I sincerely hope we learn from this and the many other senseless crashes we see on YT and don't repeat them.
@@88mike42 That's exactly what I was thinking. More forward stick when inverted and more speed and/or power may have prevented this tragic crash. But, I'm only speculating. I do not have any experience in flying the T-28 nor a lot of aerobatic experience either.
Navy gouge! Haven't heard that term since i was haze grey and underway :)
Almost as tragic as the guy in a halter top.
😂
I noticed that CWT
The bloke in the black crop top distracted them.
lol... a little levity goes a loooooong ways...
that was the real tragedy
Tragic. Rest in peace pilots. Condolences to all involved!
Well, i wouldn't be so kind to the pilots, they maneuvered the plane too low until recovery was not possible
@@lukethomas.125👍
Screwed the and augered in.
Tragic in the classic sense of hubris unleashed.
This almost exactly how my grandfather died, same plane same circumstance. Truly tragic.
Sorry if this is rude to ask but was it durign an airshow like this? May he rest in peace aswell.
@@DI9ITALS Yeah he was second in command on a low pass at an airshow and had an engine failure on climb.
@@not_joh8696 Very sad. RIP.
rip
So sorry for your loss, may he rest in peace...
What a shame. I’m so sorry to see that and the family he must of left behind. Very sad. Lots of love and preyers to his family. ❤🙏
"Must have" not "must of"
@@SunofYork what ever
@@Biketunerfy “whatever”, not what ever. Also “anyway” does not have a plural form, just fyi.
@@sethtenrec what ever
@@Biketunerfy preyers to the family too!
This maneuver started as an aileron roll and morphed into a barrel roll. When entering the inverted part of the barrel roll, one has to either roll faster or decrease the back pressure on the stick (or both) to keep the nose from falling too low. Performing this maneuver at altitude can not give you an appreciation for how much altitude is lost in an incorrectly flown barrel roll. (As demonstrated in the video)
The killer piece of information the aerobatic pilot has to have in this case is how the pitch rate of the airplane changes when inverted and pulling Gs. Straight and level a G meter reads 1 G. That 1 G is referred to as God's G. If a pilot pulls up with 3 Gs on the meter the plane only pitches with 2 Gs. If the same maneuver is done inverted the plane pitches with 4 Gs. You get a "bonus" 2 G pitch addition when inverted. At altitude this extra pitch rate can be a surprise but at low altitude, in this case, it proved deadly. Check the extreme nose down pitch attitude at the end.
In "old school" dogfighting (before all aspect air to air missiles) this God's G effect is why a fighter pilot would like to pounce on an adversary from above so as to have that 2 G advantage.
Someone died here save it for the investigation it's not the platform to show off your knowledge...
How didn't you see that
The world has no empathy anymore
Analyze all you want, but this guy rolled right into the ground.
@@tsmgguy Also true.
So your saying fighter pilots would pounce from above inverted. Remember, to get negative g you have to push, even to hold altitude inverted. So diving from above they’d need to be inverted and pushing. Not much of an advantage?
It looked like he just ran out of altitude as it looked like the plane was recovering..this was a maneuver carried out far too low,.
Unlike an straight aileron roll a low level super slow roll such as this requires much input from both sides of the rudder and elevator during stages of the roll to maintain lift.
When it comes to cordinating a slow role, this was a complete mess.
You could see it from the start. Truly tragic.
He tried a split S that low?
The T28 as a trainer is a large airplane. Years ago i saw one parked next to a Cassma 172. The T28 just towered over the 172.
The T-28 is a heavy bird. Those pilots had a quick backpack deployment chute when used in flight training at Whiting Field NAS. Those planes date back to the early 1960s and were flown off the USS Lexington aircraft carrier.
The first one was flown in 1949 with production beginning in 1950 and they were phased out by the early 60s. It was the T-6 replacement. The last active aircraft was retired in 1984.
@@grimreaper7198yes I agree, jewelmock4946 added nothing of substance to the forum.
Not sure about that "quick deployment chute", best i remember it was a standard round canopy.
At least it was at VT-3 in the early 70's.
Bailing out is a pain, unbuckle, blow the canopy, squat in the seat with hands on rail then summersault out.
it sucks :(@@weytogoman
@@elmalloc we had 2 students pull the wings off an airplane while mock dogfighting. Having to retrieve the chutes and gather parts sucked ...
Truly tragic. May everyone involved rest in peace.
What exactly does rest in peace mean ? Dumbest statement ever created.
Slow roll....not enough height...crazy.
Amellett, hogy maga az eset is nagyon szomorú, én nagyon sajnálom a jelenlévőket is, főleg gyerekeket, akikben ez egy komoly trauma lehet. Én tini koromban nagyon sokszor voltam repülőnapon, imádtam. Azóta hobbipilóta lettem motoros siklóernyőn. Biztos vagyok benne, hogy másképpen alakul az én szenvedélyem is, ha egy ilyen esetnek a szemtanúja vagyok.
A kisebbik lányommal voltam kint. Előtte imádott repülni, most azért kell majd egy kis idő, amíg ezt majd feldolgozza.
Húzni kellene egy korhatárt, hogy kik vezethetnek repülőgépet. Az esetek nagy részében az idősebb pilóták miatt történik valami.
@tamastabi3182
I hear you brother Hungarian. Yes, I've also like airshows, this was a terrible tragedy. I also pray for his wife and children..
Isten a'ldjon meg..!
@@darthgrundle2349 thank you for your kind words!
I am so sorry for the pilots families. Just so sad.
I bet he won’t try that again
You better know exactly what you’re doing and have tons of experience if you’re gonna do any aerobatics below even 2000 feet. RIP ✝️
@@Stickleback 👈👉 🧠 - ⚰️ 👉A better question might be, do you think? 😂
why even try? if u know this how come all these trick pilots who fail aint taught it?? air shows seem to cull daft pilots !!
I used to fly aerobatics - before kids when I had plenty of money to burn. As soon as I saw that roll start in this clip and put my hands on my face and said, "No! Don't do it!!!" Low level aileron rolls are only for expert aerobatic pilots. A very good aileron roll doesn't feel natural in the shoulders, lap straps and ass. You have to fly them solely with control pressures and eyes. Or else... I've seen many, many good pilots dish out this maneuver, which is why I'd only demonstrate them to these guys at 5000' a.g. So sad to see this clip. It didn't have to go this way...
My first ever attempt to roll ended badly with the horizon "dropping" out of view behind the panel when I was inverted. Had to abort, dump brakes and pull out straight. There is a good reason one starts doing these things with plenty of room to spare.
Plus doing something like this low level roll in such a heavy aircraft is a deathwish. Maybe you'd get away with it in an extra but definitely not a T-38
I took a taxi at Ft. Stewart, Ga. back in 1975. The driver was a pilot in the Viet. Air Force flying A-37's.
Sad to see. I watched a crash in Harlingen, TX years ago. May he/she RIP.
As an aside. A good friend of mine living in Texas at the time, had purchased a T-28 from a private seller in California. The aircraft was to be flown to Texas, but during the flight takeoff, the engine seized, and subsequently the aircraft ran off the end of the runway and sustained damage.
The reason for the engine not operating properly, was that a previous incident where the aircraft was collided with something, had caused damage to a propeller bearing shaft, which either was seizing or seized.
This previous damage to the engine was not part of the information on the pre-sale of the aircraft, and that my friend would have never bought an aircraft like that with damage to an engine that would require a expensive above cost repair. Plus whoever attempted to deliver it, either didn't know the previous damage to the engine, or had crossed their fingers.
Anyway, my friend got his money back, and then purchase a Bellanca.
Im not sure what is more tragic...the plane crash or the dude wearing that black shirt!!!
The more video that exists the more evidence crash investigators have to work with.
I've got 100 hrs of Navy training time in the T-28, so I can only guess. Some airplanes and jets, when you pull the stick hard over, will do a perfect aileron roll about the longitudinal (fore/aft) axis of the aircraft without any corresponding requirement for nose up/nose down adjustment. The T-28 is NOT that way! Roll and pitch have to be managed precisely throughout the maneuver by the pilot to effect a perfect 'Blue Angels' aileron roll. It doesn't appear to me that that was the case, but I'll say no more less I'm wrong.
Was it just the audio or did that engine sound like it was losing power during the roll?
I think the engine was fine. If you don't do aileron ("victory") rolls a LOT in a T-28, it's real easy to confuse or forget that as you start the roll you've gotta push the nose down some then take it out the instant you go inverted and start coming out of the roll. That low to the ground there's no chance for a "now tell me how to do that again". I fly a lot on a flight sim (including flying the T-28) and have found that without true 3D vision and the sensation of changing G-forces, it's about impossible to do accurate aerobatics on a flight sim. With respect to the crash, my comments are ENTIRELY a guess.
@@Amatronix999
Nope, I have heard many T-28's on low passes, and that is exactly how they normally sound. The engine almost sounds like it's skipping, but it's normal.
Very sad event. I guess the experience of the pilot was limited? Each aircraft has it's flying characteristics, and at low level, you don't get much time to correct. I am sorry that the pilot will not get another chance to correct the mistake. RIP for those involved.
Well damn...just flew it into the ground 😮
Either pitch up to at least 45 degrees bevor starting withe the aileron roll, or you need a higher roll rate.
Since higher roll rates are not possible with this aircraft, only the first option comes into question.
Unless you do this maneuver at high altitude.
The maneuver should be done at a higher altitude. That’s all.
You can fly this maneuver at this altitude without any problems, but first you have to pitch up strongly as I wrote.
You don't necessarily want to come out of the roll in a nose down position, even at high altitude.
I know what I'm talking about, I did extreme aerobatics for 15 years with the Extra 330 SC and many other aircraft up to the L-29 and L-39 jets.
Something tells me that the pilot wasn’t really familiar with the aircraft.
I know this video is sad but that guy with the bra looking shirt was hilarious
Ouch. Painful to watch. RIP to the deceased.
It also appears that he was attempting a slow roll? A T-28 can go around much quicker from what I remember of flying them years ago. His IAS was up, his initial pitch up not quite enough imo , but then the roll rate seemed incredibly slow.
ua-cam.com/video/EejOvo4g3eA/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
EDIT: I originally incorrectly used the term "slow roll" below...I now have changed it to "aileron roll":
This video clearly illustrates that you need to initiate an aileron roll in the T-28 with a ~40 degree nose-up attitude, in order to be sure of not losing overall altitude during the maneuver.
The crashed T-28's aileron roll may not have been survivable regardless of control inputs at the end, because he didn't initiate the maneuver with a ~40 degree nose-up attitude.
Your describing an aileron roll where no tail inputs are required. But a slow roll such as this requires top side tail inputs from both the rudder and the elevator. Imagine flying inverted. You apply top side elevator. A slow roll such as this has lengthy knife edge and inverted components which require top side inputs to keep the nose up during the relevant moments. A 28 can pull it off but requires excellent skills and at these low levels there is literally no room for error. As this video well😊😊 demonstrates.
@@chipcity3016 Thanks...I corrected my messages 👍
When did this tragedy happen - no date given?
Who starts a barrel roll at that altitude in a T-28?
Them ?
"That guy"
[Edit/Correction: aileron roll, not slow roll ]
@@jerrysmith5782To do a slow roll from that attitude, a pilot really needs to be heavy handed and have good timing on the elevator and rudder to keep the nose up. Initially, the pilot climbed before the maneuver, which was good, but in doing it he lost speed, so added to the pilot falling out of roll.
@@covercalls88 - Several pilots have commented above on the flying errors the pilot, apparently, made, so I won't repeat them. The first and the worst one he made, in my opinion, was to initiate a prohibited maneuver at low altitude in possibly, the WORST airplane he could have chosen for that maneuver ! Who can understand this kind of person's behavior ? I can't.
Just had to barrel roll. Couldn’t just fly gracefully by. As if people never seen an acrobatics display. Rare planes like the Trojan and Mohawk shouldn’t be allowed to do aerobatic displays.
I agree. Too many rare and valuable machines - not mention LIVES- seem to be lost when there is really no need to do anything more than demonstrate the machine in a sedate way. The noise a T-28 makes is alone worth a flyby and a climb out. Maybe it's the demands of the era; everything has to be bigger, better .... So tragic and disheartening.
Half the people weren't even paying attention when the crash happened.
Really sad to hear the little girl yell out "Papa!"
RIP
Same thing happened in martinsburg wv in 2011. A t-28 tried that same maneuver but crashed. Some people said the pilot had a heart attack during the flight though
I wonder if that maneuver was practiced in that airplane at that entry speed up around 5000 feet above the ground a couple times, first? Each time, noting start altitude, lowest altitude and end altitude. Then only try it low-level knowing the lowest possible altitude to begin the maneuver, plus a healthy margin for error. Or was it just done on a whim? Looking up the aileron roll maneuver, the nose should have been on the horizon at 180 degrees of roll (inverted point). In the video, it looked like the nose was significantly below the horizon at that point. I don’t know how fast the T-28 can roll, but at that point, nose down, it would seem that maximum roll rate to wings level, upright was needed…and then a stiff pull back, avoiding an accelerated stall, to avoid the ground. It all might not have been possible at that altitude once at that inverted attitude.
Hard to understand how he f'ed this up
Not really. That engine was dying.
@@burlatsdemontaigne6147 looked more like he was rolling way too slow and then going panic mode as he realized he was too low on a downward slope upside down.
@@burlatsdemontaigne6147 Look at the footage, he had plenty of speed. The engine soubds just fine. If this was not pilot error I would be surprised
@@burlatsdemontaigne6147 Which the pilot also knew, therefore it's hard to understand why he would attempt the roll at reduced power.
Hey Gabor, do you have an email address we can use to contact you regarding this video? I'd love to discuss a license to use this if possible! Cheers, Felix
Lack of altitude wins in every crash. RIP.
You are absolutely right. A pilots best friend is Altitude. 😢
In thrust we trust
when the plane was still inverted, the pilot pulled up on the stick, pushing the plane to the ground. then pulled harder as the plane exited inverted, but too late by then and possibly power-on stall in last seconds of flight.
Pitch and unload before roll. Forward stick pressure. Folks always panic and pull on their back. Proper instruction in unusual attitudes and aerobatic flight. Tragic.....but so common. My condolences to the families.
Way to low and slow to complete a roll, so sad for those involved.
Not too low, and not too slow. The pilot failed to fly the maneuver correctly.
The engine sounded weird as it flew by the cameraman. Almost like it was halfway feathered. VT-6? Wasn't there a T-28 at KNCO?
That stops me from going to an airshow.
Anyone who knows what happened? Technical failure? Pilot failure?
I was there. This single event took a toll on me, for, I wonder why.
Anyone ever do a study on the maneuver that’s results in the most crashes at air shows? Bet it’s this one.
I clicked on the headline of the videos and was a bit disappointed I did not see a long rubber sock-like open-ended balloon fall from the sky.
Are Air Shows really worth the loss of life ( loss of parents husbands friends etc ) ? I don’t think so.
Looks like he slow rolled right into the ground.
My Dad did a barrel roll in his Beech Musketeer at about 500 feet over our drop zone where he had flown jumpers all day. Bless his heart he put up with our skydiving nonsense and wanted give us a show as he departed for home. He pulled it off unlike this video but guarantee he wouldn't do it again.
Air shows are a great resource for UA-cam.
My deepest condolences to the lost of their beloved angel. May the pilot be forever at peace. May Allah SWT earn him Jannah
AL-FATIHAH 🤲🏼
Even seasoned pilots can make rookie mistakes rip
Did he survive?
I was almost pushing invisible sttick in front of me when he started losing altitude while going inverted...
Dear pilots.....planes don't have "lift" when you fly sideways.
My Dad took me to a Air Crash Show once, 3 people died, or actually they fried. After that I preferred going to the Aviation Museum instead as well building model airplanes.
Stroke or heart attack? The engine sounded bad but that slow roll was just strange
The engine sounded exactly like a T-28 should, that round engine rumble is wonderful!
That nose should have been up about 30 degrees before initiating that roll. That would have translated to about 30 degrees nose down at the exit.
Failure to enter the roll in the correct attitude caused a steep nose down recovery without sufficient altitude.
He still might have save it by applying forward stick while inverted and focusing in rolling through.
Instead I saw the aircraft severely loaded through the second half of the roll. There was never room for that choice.
He didn’t raise the nose anywhere near high enough prior to beginning the aileron roll. Another 10 degrees of pitch he’d probably have been fine, but flying an airshow routine is no place to learn the basics of an aileron roll. When learning aerobatics the lowly aileron roll is the first maneuver you’ll learn and his is the most common mistake made. Sad for him and his family.
That move isn't in the flight manual, which Bob Hoover wrote
Was this his first flight?!
With a roll rate like that I wouldn’t want to perform a roll at any altitude
Why did he steer the plane into the ground. Suicide?
Open question to pilots: if he had kept on aileron & not stabbed it with rudder at the end... would he have made it?
He would have made if he increased the roll rate and pushed the stick forward during the inverted section of the roll. Imagine flying inverted your push for more angle of attack (lift).
In this case the pilot panicked and actually pulled while he was still rolling out, which exasibated his problems.
It really was a poorly executed roll, and at such low level in a big old heavy plane he had little margine for error.
@@chipcity3016 Increasing roll rate would have been good but even better would be to fast roll into the other direction because that was still closer to get upright again. Push stick slightly forward, center-position, counter-roll, then pull hard backward when the plane is at 90° again and finish the roll to get altitude
@@chipcity3016 I bet he never even knew he was in trouble when he was inverted and wings level, and only realized it the next second
@@uncannysnakethe T28 is a heavy bird with momentum. I m not sure he could increase the roll rate.
I’m not a T28 pilot so it s possible I don’t know what i m talking about
@@chipcity3016 - JohnSYoungJr - Earnie Gann's excellent book, "Fate Is The Hunter", explained how fatal airplane crashes (and other types of fatal accidents or events) - ref. the Titanic's crashing into an iceberg) are usually the result of numerous man made human errors and seemingly, random events that all seem to line up to create a fatal crash, or as some would say : "fate" caused the fatal event. However, this pilot, as already noted by several commentors, made a number of judgement errors and mistakes that led him into this crash. If the pilot had not made his initial error to do an aileron roll at too low of an altitude, or, if he had corrected any one of his flying errors executing the roll properly. He might, possibly have saved his loss of control during his aborted roll that killed him. The U.S. Navy placarded the T28 against low altitude aileron rolls and hammerhead stalls for very good reasons. Still, he may have been able to survive this fatal event, if he hadn't compounded his initial error in judgement by not executing the maneuver properly. So the multiple errors this pilot made all created his tragic and fatal crash, and he paid the terrible ultimate price that aviation often measures out to it's players that push their limits. To all of this pilot's family and friends, may your present sorrow, sadness, and grief, be lessened in time and replaced by the joy of remembering the many happy times you shared with your loved one.
Off into eternity… 🙏🏻
What's the saying,
"There are old pilots,
and there are bold pilots,
but there are no old, bold pilots."
A most unforgiving endeavor.
clearly it's not the pilots first time flying the plane... but did he never try this stunt before?? why would he attempt the maneuver without having enough altitude if he was familiar with it at all
in Germany are aerobatic flights under 400 meters height forbidden
The same type of plane crashed a few years ago at Compton Woolley airport
Far too low to attempt that manoeuvre. Tragic.
This is so sad... I saw this happen at Biggin Hill many years ago....it was surreal...silence descended and everyone quietly made their way to the exit.
I just felt no one should die to entertain the crowd... I never went to another air show
Yeah ok👌🏻
whatever
@@guaporeturns9472 🤔
@@acerimmer1023 People have died engaging in literally every form of entertainment/competition/activity known to man. Have you stopped watching every activity on earth?
@@guaporeturns9472 no...but to see it with my own eyes deeply affected me. I have no idea what would affect you...and wouldn't presume to
@@acerimmer1023 I don’t presume anything , but I can tell you one observation I have made …. you and many like you have become soft and weak..people die every day , so toughen up , you might need to take care of business someday when shit gets real , but maybe I’m just being too harsh.
Airshows are crazy. They seem to have a lot of fatal incidents.
The Trojan didn't give him sufficient protection against that sort of accident.
So true. But his U.S. Navy flight manual did warn him not to roll his beloved T28 Trojan at low altitude. Breaking the rules in aviation is not conducive to a long life.
Caution: Do not attempt a roll at a low altitude.
What a fly by sound..
Very sad! Everyone makes mistakes, some being big ones! It's difficult to judge someone who perished:(, but as soon as he saw that the roll rate isn't high enough to finish, he should've pushed the stick all the way forward when he was on the upside down part of the roll to try and reduce the downward rotation of the plane's velocity vector for as much as possible and remain with higher altitude after the roll was finished to pull up from. He panicked when he remained with 90 degrees of roll left and started pulling hard on the stick. Indeed pulling before being wings level help according to the remaining roll angle and is better than nothing, but it wasn't enough for him here. RIP!:(
It is the same error that many pilots made for the last time in their lives!
That was lower than I would try that in a sim...
He went into that maneuver at the engine idle and a thousand feet too low.. Are you kidding? Talk about pilot error.
Really nice picture of the wonderful blue sky.
A pilots best friend is altitude. Airshows should be stopped. Its all about low level flying while seriousy pushing the planes to there limits.
Yeah, exhaust sound is normal... It has Collector exhaust manifolds, and that's the way it sounds.
Correct. The Doppler shift phenomenon makes the engine sound like it is operating at higher RPMs as it approaches stationary listeners to it's sound, and, then, it sounds like it is running at a slower speed as the airplane engine (in this case) moves away from the crowd. Situation normal. Racing cars sound the same, with a higher pitched engine whine as they speed by the stationary fans, and a seemingly lower pitch, as they speed away.
The woman on her phone missing the whole thing.
The Delfin crash in Argentina looks almost identical to this.
That engine sounded rough as sticks
Why!?
Ok, instantly at the start no one notices the guy wearing his t shirt like a belly top, I mean wtf
He was distracted by the mid riff dude.
Is that misuse of rudder?
Half way through that he realised he was done...
Damn... I hate it when that happens!
Was it the 7 cylinder Jacobs or 9 cylinder Wright? sounded like the smaller. These were developed as trainers for F86 jets. Cockpit was apparently identical.
That is the T-28 C, with the tailhook. The Navy had the B & C with a 1400 hp Wright, and the Army & Air Force had the A model with the 800 hp Wright and 2-blade prop. The smaller cowling gives the A away even in the air from a distance and even if repainted in Navy livery.
The last second of the video is heartbreaking..it sounds like a little girl yelling ‘poppa!!’…could have been her father/grandfather. Sad either way.
I feel so bad for The Pilot, low level rolls are in dangerous and not for the faint of heart any elevator at all there’s a problem
And that my friends is why I dont go to airshows.
We going to ignore the dude in the crop top?