I go Meinwork into long feudal every game. It's exactly how Beasty says, you have about 3 minutes where your military is much stronger than your opponents and you have to do enough damage in those 3 minutes otherwise you fall behind. It's a high risk, high reward strat.
Same it’s not like you lose if you can’t finish them off. You can still get prelate buffs on villagers with the starting one or make another to stick it onto another resource. Then you can go to castle and still have reduced castle upgrades from meinwerk for another timing push and can still use the two prelates to immediately pick up relics. One thing that is worse though is that overall players have gotten better and now knows how to deal with MaAs effectively which hre covets.
@@jasonyun1158 Yep, you don't need to end the game in feudal, but you absolutely must pull ahead in feudal. With enough pressure you can reach castle before them and get almost all of the relics since you have prelates out already. Mass Feudal MAA smokes Abba and Ottomans. Vs Cav civs I usually go mass Spears and Horsemen, with some MAA sprinkled in to run in under their TC.
@@jimmyrustles358 yup i always rush meinwerk into ranged def +1 , seige engineering and marching drills and leave 4 on gold for mass maa. and if i think i cant finish them because they responded correctly i cant kill the TC, i jsut ram all their production and eco buildings and pull ahead to castle
Great video! Another point is that if HRE stays in feudal longer, there is a risk that the opponent will go castle and take all the relics. And Burgrave loses most of its value if you build it after a prolonged feudal.
Its not worth it. For spears and horseman its only meele armor and the +2/+2 for knights cost 500 ress with the discount. It is not bad, but compared to the insane eco bonus from aachen is not worth it. You need units first befor makeing upgrades.
Great video, thanks. As a main HRE, very informative. However, I was trying around a bit with HRE feudal agression and surprisingly got good results. And I think the reason for that is the answer to the question "Why would you fight as HRE in feudal?" which is: "Because it is not expected!" I can literally see the surprise in my opponents face - admittedly in our low level regions down there - wenn I say "Hello" with 6-8 MaA at 6:30 amongst his wood and/or gold vills. And with Marching Drills (first tech out of the blacksmith in feudal) they are even not that slow. Especially against civs that go for boom themselves, like China etc. And works very well in mirrors cause the opponent is completely blank, as he is in a fast castle race between two HRE players. Doesn't mean it is a blueprint for victory, however it causes some disorder, and it is up to me to make use of it... It's kinda fun😊
Hre feudal needs a lot of early wood to make barracks, forge en eventually farms. This delays a lot castle it's imo why hre does not fight feudal because somehow it feels kinda all in to fight feudal and not rush castle whereas there is no reason you cant beat or at least put problems to any civs
i have i think dumb question but maybe not prelate makes villager work 40% faster so prelate on 5 villagers counts as 7? is making prelate for a far away mine for example with 6 villagers more cost efficient than making another villager? of course you queue one prelate and later on you continue with villagers but i'm curious if there is mathematically advantageous moment where i should do pre-castle prelate even if i have Aachen
A good analysis from Beasty, but I think it's quite possible for the HRE to build a fast second TC right next to the berries and then spam out units to gain map control and then take the deer/boar. With that second TC, you should be able to keep up with enough prelates to have almost everyone of your villagers inspired. I'm not convinced that whoever gets the relics automatically wins. Getting trade up and going while your opponent is going for relics should be viable if you have the army to protect it (which you should have if you've been spamming out units in Feudal).
Depends on matchups. For example if you are against like French/Chinese and you both go 2 TC, they just usually do that better. Delhi is a matchup that they probably stay feudal for longer, because sure relics are insane for HRE, but giving up sacred sites can be super tragic
I go Aachen Chapel in feudal and just out boom my opponent. The longer feudal goes on the more onesided it gets in your favor. Prelates on each resource not covered by chapel and jsut keep dropping production and mass MAA. Idk works for me but im in low gold atm
great explanation! what about hill&dale? with deer immediately next to tc, can you get away with trying to overwhelm certain civs with feudal maa, bc chapel bonus is kinda extended?
Against ottomans, abbasid and delhi pre ghazi raiders just go all in on MAA feudal and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it. Same is true for english but they always go for that dumb longbow rush
But meinwork gives u +2 on spears and horsemen. which makes the fight vs enemy horsemen and spears greatly in ur favor. so the point of meinwork being useless after few min is not totally correct.
Yeah, the HRE should be able to hold off both the Rus and French with that +2 armor and go for the deer/boar. For the other civs, the MAA should be able to hold them off.
feudal maa are trash, all civs hav way's to deal with them easily. French, Rus and Mali have direct counter to them. China can make Zugenu. Dehli got the Gezi Raider now. Ottoman can easily mass archer + mether and kite the maa to death. Abba dose the worst against them but still can deal with ealry maa with camel archer, they are expensiv yes, but its basicly the same as mass archer.
Still thinking Meinwerk should give acess to upgrades of the 3rd age in feudal /4th age in castle as a boost to HRE to not age up while giving enourmous pressure if HRE has higher power instead of higher Economie this gives a constant boost while staying the same age while not being to over top broken since its still a massiv investment while there was once the idea of unlock any upgrade with meinwerk that would be broken as hell makes it less 1 dimensional to play HRE
Meinwork is already very good. The problem is that Aachen is absurd. Increased inspiration range, instant inspiration and protected prelate all in one.
@@jimmyrustles358 its not about aachen being better but giving meinwerk a different approach giving more insentiv to stay in feudal compare to aachen where u aim to go castle as beaty pointed already since beaty explained that if u stay in feudal u lose your landmark value also +1dmg melee/ranged and +1 armor/range armor would still needed to to be researched which would still cost lot if to powerful it could even be balanced by removing the cost reduction/research speed to standard for advanced research
@@jimmyrustles358 no i mean i suggest the abllity to research an age higher so in feudal the castle +1 melee as example and for that the cost reduction/research speed removed only for the higher than regular age was an example how to nerf if it became to powerful with the reduction
im bad, so this doesnt mean much, but i just got blasted in feudal as the ottomans by an HRE player he had a flood of M@a and rams i just couldnt do much other than garrison and try to defend letting him amass more and more
Well, I'm a noob.... I've been playing hre wrong this whole time🤣. Saw the hre build video on 2tc and then the vid on map control and though I guess that's how hre plays. Guess I gotta learn fast castle now and maybe I'll get out of bronze
How do i fkin beat HRE as English bro , i swear if i go 2 tc he ages up and rush me down with man at arm , and my archers can't do shit about it. Even if i haras , they just gonna make towers and some spears in it .....
If he makes towers that's wood that didn't go to production, meaning you should have more production than him. Be it a second TC, extra military buildings more farms. Apply pressure but don't go all in. If he builds towers and you can't harass them start rushing castle make a stable and protect the relics so they don't get em.
![TheViper Faces A Defensive MASTERPIECE [AoE4]](/img/n.gif)
I go Meinwork into long feudal every game. It's exactly how Beasty says, you have about 3 minutes where your military is much stronger than your opponents and you have to do enough damage in those 3 minutes otherwise you fall behind. It's a high risk, high reward strat.
Same it’s not like you lose if you can’t finish them off. You can still get prelate buffs on villagers with the starting one or make another to stick it onto another resource. Then you can go to castle and still have reduced castle upgrades from meinwerk for another timing push and can still use the two prelates to immediately pick up relics. One thing that is worse though is that overall players have gotten better and now knows how to deal with MaAs effectively which hre covets.
@@jasonyun1158 Yep, you don't need to end the game in feudal, but you absolutely must pull ahead in feudal. With enough pressure you can reach castle before them and get almost all of the relics since you have prelates out already. Mass Feudal MAA smokes Abba and Ottomans. Vs Cav civs I usually go mass Spears and Horsemen, with some MAA sprinkled in to run in under their TC.
@@jimmyrustles358 yup i always rush meinwerk into ranged def +1 , seige engineering and marching drills and leave 4 on gold for mass maa. and if i think i cant finish them because they responded correctly i cant kill the TC, i jsut ram all their production and eco buildings and pull ahead to castle
we went from this to S tier feudal all ins
Great video! Another point is that if HRE stays in feudal longer, there is a risk that the opponent will go castle and take all the relics. And Burgrave loses most of its value if you build it after a prolonged feudal.
Meinwork gives 2 extra armor to spearman, horseman, and knights. Ultimately, knights can have 10 armor which is pretty good.
Its not worth it. For spears and horseman its only meele armor and the +2/+2 for knights cost 500 ress with the discount. It is not bad, but compared to the insane eco bonus from aachen is not worth it. You need units first befor makeing upgrades.
Yea Aachen is just too good pass up, buff meinwerk pls
AOE 4 is such a complex game and these videos really help! Thanks Beastyqt!
Great video, thanks. As a main HRE, very informative. However, I was trying around a bit with HRE feudal agression and surprisingly got good results. And I think the reason for that is the answer to the question "Why would you fight as HRE in feudal?" which is: "Because it is not expected!" I can literally see the surprise in my opponents face - admittedly in our low level regions down there - wenn I say "Hello" with 6-8 MaA at 6:30 amongst his wood and/or gold vills. And with Marching Drills (first tech out of the blacksmith in feudal) they are even not that slow. Especially against civs that go for boom themselves, like China etc. And works very well in mirrors cause the opponent is completely blank, as he is in a fast castle race between two HRE players. Doesn't mean it is a blueprint for victory, however it causes some disorder, and it is up to me to make use of it... It's kinda fun😊
Love this vid. As a new HRE main I love to see different ways to play it but those bonuses are very hard to to not use for quick castle
I still want to believe there's a world where people go Meinwerk into 2TC and go Horsemen+Spearmen (with the extra armor from Meinwerk) Feudal all in.
That's cool ima try that
I mean it can work but it's very all-in
@@caspuchiha sometimes you have to roll the dice and lose everything just to feel something
Love this kind of content. Gives some great insight into the thinking of pro players
Make this a series for every civ
Cool to get insight to the matchup from a high level perspective.
Great games yesterday man! That 2nd game of your series! What a come back!
Great video. I hope this series continouee
lol I'm French and I often rush castle. You rush castle when you want to do a boom strategy using the guild hall and chamber of commerce.
Hre feudal needs a lot of early wood to make barracks, forge en eventually farms. This delays a lot castle it's imo why hre does not fight feudal because somehow it feels kinda all in to fight feudal and not rush castle whereas there is no reason you cant beat or at least put problems to any civs
i have i think dumb question but maybe not
prelate makes villager work 40% faster so prelate on 5 villagers counts as 7?
is making prelate for a far away mine for example with 6 villagers more cost efficient than making another villager?
of course you queue one prelate and later on you continue with villagers
but i'm curious if there is mathematically advantageous moment where i should do pre-castle prelate even if i have Aachen
This video didn't age very well
A good analysis from Beasty, but I think it's quite possible for the HRE to build a fast second TC right next to the berries and then spam out units to gain map control and then take the deer/boar. With that second TC, you should be able to keep up with enough prelates to have almost everyone of your villagers inspired. I'm not convinced that whoever gets the relics automatically wins. Getting trade up and going while your opponent is going for relics should be viable if you have the army to protect it (which you should have if you've been spamming out units in Feudal).
Depends on matchups. For example if you are against like French/Chinese and you both go 2 TC, they just usually do that better. Delhi is a matchup that they probably stay feudal for longer, because sure relics are insane for HRE, but giving up sacred sites can be super tragic
I enjoy vidoes when you're just talking I can play them in the background while cleaning etc
I go Aachen Chapel in feudal and just out boom my opponent. The longer feudal goes on the more onesided it gets in your favor. Prelates on each resource not covered by chapel and jsut keep dropping production and mass MAA. Idk works for me but im in low gold atm
Amazing video Beasty
great explanation! what about hill&dale? with deer immediately next to tc, can you get away with trying to overwhelm certain civs with feudal maa, bc chapel bonus is kinda extended?
Doesn't Meinwork also have some new unique upgrades as well? Ones the regular blacksmith doesn't get?
For knights and maa's I think
@@Yato5926 for knights and spearmen and horsmen, but they dont make up for forfeiting aachen
Against ottomans, abbasid and delhi pre ghazi raiders just go all in on MAA feudal and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it. Same is true for english but they always go for that dumb longbow rush
But meinwork gives u +2 on spears and horsemen. which makes the fight vs enemy horsemen and spears greatly in ur favor. so the point of meinwork being useless after few min is not totally correct.
Yeah, the HRE should be able to hold off both the Rus and French with that +2 armor and go for the deer/boar. For the other civs, the MAA should be able to hold them off.
@@MikelRC70can’t the knights just run around your spears and keep your villagers off the resources
pls more of this
Thx!
How about feudal Maa? I always thought you couldn't beat them in feudal but I guess the problem is just the movement speed
The worst part of feudal MAA is ranged armor. They can't stand under the enemy TC as well as they can with their castle upgrades.
feudal maa are trash, all civs hav way's to deal with them easily. French, Rus and Mali have direct counter to them. China can make Zugenu. Dehli got the Gezi Raider now. Ottoman can easily mass archer + mether and kite the maa to death. Abba dose the worst against them but still can deal with ealry maa with camel archer, they are expensiv yes, but its basicly the same as mass archer.
Feudal MAA aren't very strong statwise and compared to Feudal Knight, its far weaker.
so basically HRE is still 1 dimensional after 2 years
Still thinking Meinwerk should give acess to upgrades of the 3rd age in feudal /4th age in castle as a boost to HRE to not age up while giving enourmous pressure if HRE has higher power instead of higher Economie
this gives a constant boost while staying the same age while not being to over top broken since its still a massiv investment
while there was once the idea of unlock any upgrade with meinwerk that would be broken as hell
makes it less 1 dimensional to play HRE
that would be broken af
Meinwork is already very good. The problem is that Aachen is absurd. Increased inspiration range, instant inspiration and protected prelate all in one.
@@jimmyrustles358 its not about aachen being better but giving meinwerk a different approach giving more insentiv to stay in feudal compare to aachen where u aim to go castle as beaty pointed already
since beaty explained that if u stay in feudal u lose your landmark value
also +1dmg melee/ranged and +1 armor/range armor
would still needed to to be researched
which would still cost lot
if to powerful it could even be balanced by removing the cost reduction/research speed to standard for advanced research
@@voidcommando7574 The cost and speed reduction is what makes Meinwork good.
@@jimmyrustles358 no i mean i suggest the abllity to research an age higher so in feudal the castle +1 melee as example and for that the cost reduction/research speed removed
only for the higher than regular age
was an example how to nerf if it became to powerful with the reduction
6 months on, Meinwork or Chapel?
GOT IT SO GREAT
im bad, so this doesnt mean much, but i just got blasted in feudal as the ottomans by an HRE player he had a flood of M@a and rams i just couldnt do much other than garrison and try to defend letting him amass more and more
This is interesting
Well, I'm a noob.... I've been playing hre wrong this whole time🤣. Saw the hre build video on 2tc and then the vid on map control and though I guess that's how hre plays. Guess I gotta learn fast castle now and maybe I'll get out of bronze
Don't get this. MAA is always strong in feudal.
cant w8 for video about RUS
How do i fkin beat HRE as English bro , i swear if i go 2 tc he ages up and rush me down with man at arm , and my archers can't do shit about it. Even if i haras , they just gonna make towers and some spears in it .....
I know they are beatable but i have no clue how .
English only with one tc, then mass army with rams kills hre
@@FeitanL maybe rush castle into crossbows from council hall
@@dandunmambun6929nah hre gets to castle faster.
If he makes towers that's wood that didn't go to production, meaning you should have more production than him. Be it a second TC, extra military buildings more farms. Apply pressure but don't go all in. If he builds towers and you can't harass them start rushing castle make a stable and protect the relics so they don't get em.