This episode feels like an episode of Supernatural written by someone who had seen a few episodes of the show, enough to know that Sam and Dean argue about trust issues and occasionally have an "old friend" who they need to help out, then threw in some of their own kinks. They didn't even mention the men of letters stuff. It felt this could have been slotted in anywhere in any season of the show and all that they'd need to change is what the brothers are arguing about.
Literally the only reason this writing duo got to stay on the show past Season 1 was "Do YOU want to be the one to tell Robert Singer his wife can't write?"
I meant to comment about it last episode but wouldn't it have made more sense for them to postpone closing the gates of hell until after they searched through the bunker.
Sam's "I have been going over this and overt this, asking myself 'why doesn't he trust me?' and it occurred to me finally- it's not that you don't trust me, it's that you can only trust you," is a great line both for 1) commenting on where Dean's character arc has been taking him for all these 8 seasons and 2) showing Sam's maturity. I am so proud of Sam. You can see an instinctive flinch on his face like 5 seconds before this line, and it's instantly recognizable as a "Sam face" because it's that same movement he's made countless times first to John and then to Dean. It's the fact that those feelings are still there that makes it so impressive when Sam says he's taking the emotional weight off of himself and accepting that Dean's issues are not his own. He fought hard to be this healthy!! (ironic considering the trials)
I was like 'yay... oh no, I don't think I can watch this episode again, even a cut down version of it...' there's only one other episode that I will not watch again - and that's still to come.
@@HarvestLockwood Bugs isn't actually as bad as we remember, it's just the shortened night that's the iffy bit. I tend not to skip most eps with reactors (I may just watch the edited version of some, instead of a full length if I'm on their patreon) but there are some eps I usually skip completely with all but a few reactors. This being one
100 % agreed. This ep and 9x20 are the only ones, I would never watch again. And Bugs really isn't that bad. It's quite funny and I just realized while watching it for the third time or so, that Taylor Johnston (later Samandriel) was in it and also Carrie Genzel, who also appeared in a different role years later.
@susanberrier5727 What a completely absurd thing to say to someone. If I was "dead inside" I wouldn't watch Supernatural over and over again (17 times and counting) in the first place. There are brilliant episodes that are extremely moving like Swan Song, Lazarus Rising, the finales of seasons 2, 3, 8, 9, and 10...There are comedy gold episodes like Yellow Fever, Changing Channels and The French Mistake. Then there's the episode mentioned here, that is just super corny and even cringeworthy in a couple spots. It's merely okay on first viewing, then completely unwatchable on rewatches...though I usually force myself to suffer through it, as I do the other mediocre episodes, because I don't want to miss any poignant moments between the brothers. You go ahead and enjoy it all you like, more power to ya. Not me.
@kimberlywilmoth9184 my opinion still stands. We all can't have a good sense of humor. I never shit on any episode, even the mediocre ones. Lots of hard work went into every episode. I might not care for certain episodes but I never publicly voice it cuz it's disrespectful to the people who created it.
Although nothing was ever said about it being an attempt at a spin-off, I always had the feeling that maybe the writers were throwing it in there to see what kind of response fans might give. It featured two protagonists who could have been leads ( even if their relationship was rather weird) and a ready-made background with the witch bar and its frequenters. But as it was very badly rated at the time, I'm guessing any thoughts on such a thing were shelved immediately. lol.
Dean's issue with Sam was never about trust, he was just worried about him and the effects of the trials, whether he'll survive it or even if he does if they will have lasting effects. And Dean's worries are proven right at the end, the trials did have bigger effects on Sam, he's just been hiding them from Dean. I get that Sam doesn't like overprotective Dean but it is hypocritical of him to berate Dean over trust when he's the one keeping secrets. This is just like with Hallucifer, and if Sam isn't fit enough for basic hunts than he risk his and Dean's life. Both brothers are guilty of keeping their wellbeing secret from one another, but it ruins the bro moment they had at the end when you realize Sam is lying, and him lying feels like its for dramatic effect rather than making sense.
I think the idea could have been interesting but it felt so one dimensional. The bits with Dean and Sam were like a bright light in a dim room and amplified the lackluster feeling of the primary plot. Overall, the episode felt flat and clumsy. I really didnt care for the portrayal of Portia; something about it was offputting to me. In the end, it was mostly a shaky vehicle to move the situation of the trials along and Dean's issues with protecting his brother. I think your reaction was fair, accurate and to be expected. We should just file this one under "eh" and move on. 🤷
I'm with you on not quite vibing with the characters. And not really all that important to the whole season plot.... Except talking about the trial stuff. And I'm with dean there too lol
If you need to find a loophole so you can tell a story with sex in it, then just leave the sex stuff out of it. There are just some topics where no matter how you spin it, you are advertising to the world that this is what you're in to.
You’re not the only one who feels this way about this episode. It’s one of the worst ones of the series written by the worst writers - Ross-Lemming & Buckner. It’s problematic on many levels.
Can't say I hate this episode or any episode in the show, but this is one of the first episodes where I just went "Who the hell approved this script?" I like Bucklemming, but this is easily their worst episode
you like Buckleming?! I think very few people like them lol. They do have some good plot episodes - but I think when they're left to their own devices in monster of the week eps, they lose their way. Their plot episodes are probably guided by the show runner a bit more than MOTW
@@PurpleNurpleSPN I know they do have a lot of flaws in their episodes that I agree with the Fandom are kinda dumb. But some of the flaws people find give the impression that they were just looking for flaws. Idk, I guess it's more that I don't hate them as much as everyone else does? I think "Hell's Angel" is my favorite episode from them.
@@Crazy-Cocoa-2.0 yeah the fandom can be pretty focussed on flaws sometimes. There's a certain episode I don't mind but isn't liked much and I'm always wanting to defend it! It's like saying 'i like John Winchester' when what you mean is 'I hate him less than everyone else' lol
This is definitely one of my least favorite episodes of the show. I do watch it when it comes up on reaction channels because it usually makes for a funny reaction, but I've seen the full episode exactly one time and that was plenty.
He's too familiar with that familiar
I don't think I've ever met anyone who likes this episode so you are not alone.
I don't hate it, but it does make me go
"WHY?!"
I like it because of the world building-shapeshifters and witches and such. But the rest is…eh.
@@forestcatkay14 I can see that, though I feel that, like most interesting ideas in SPN, they didn't really utilize it to its full potential.
I don't hate it, but I find it fairly below average. It's kinda boring
This episode feels like an episode of Supernatural written by someone who had seen a few episodes of the show, enough to know that Sam and Dean argue about trust issues and occasionally have an "old friend" who they need to help out, then threw in some of their own kinks. They didn't even mention the men of letters stuff. It felt this could have been slotted in anywhere in any season of the show and all that they'd need to change is what the brothers are arguing about.
Literally the only reason this writing duo got to stay on the show past Season 1 was "Do YOU want to be the one to tell Robert Singer his wife can't write?"
I meant to comment about it last episode but wouldn't it have made more sense for them to postpone closing the gates of hell until after they searched through the bunker.
Yeah I know the fandom don't like this episode but I do. Btw James is Christian Campbell. Neve Campbell's older brother
Sam's "I have been going over this and overt this, asking myself 'why doesn't he trust me?' and it occurred to me finally- it's not that you don't trust me, it's that you can only trust you," is a great line both for 1) commenting on where Dean's character arc has been taking him for all these 8 seasons and 2) showing Sam's maturity.
I am so proud of Sam. You can see an instinctive flinch on his face like 5 seconds before this line, and it's instantly recognizable as a "Sam face" because it's that same movement he's made countless times first to John and then to Dean. It's the fact that those feelings are still there that makes it so impressive when Sam says he's taking the emotional weight off of himself and accepting that Dean's issues are not his own. He fought hard to be this healthy!! (ironic considering the trials)
Yeah they really screwed the pooch on this one
Oh my god.
The overall plot of the episode, I think you said everything perfectly. I don’t think I can improve on that, well done, Jess.
I was like 'yay... oh no, I don't think I can watch this episode again, even a cut down version of it...' there's only one other episode that I will not watch again - and that's still to come.
Really? You don't even skip Route 666 or Bugs?
@@HarvestLockwood Bugs isn't actually as bad as we remember, it's just the shortened night that's the iffy bit. I tend not to skip most eps with reactors (I may just watch the edited version of some, instead of a full length if I'm on their patreon) but there are some eps I usually skip completely with all but a few reactors. This being one
100 % agreed. This ep and 9x20 are the only ones, I would never watch again. And Bugs really isn't that bad. It's quite funny and I just realized while watching it for the third time or so, that Taylor Johnston (later Samandriel) was in it and also Carrie Genzel, who also appeared in a different role years later.
I always wondered wtf they were smoking with this episode
You'll have to wait till season 9 for a good episode revolving around a dog
Can't stand that one either.
@kimberlywilmoth9184 then you're dead inside cuz that one is perfection.
Dude that is a good episode. Shall be fun seeing her react to it.
@susanberrier5727 What a completely absurd thing to say to someone. If I was "dead inside" I wouldn't watch Supernatural over and over again (17 times and counting) in the first place. There are brilliant episodes that are extremely moving like Swan Song, Lazarus Rising, the finales of seasons 2, 3, 8, 9, and 10...There are comedy gold episodes like Yellow Fever, Changing Channels and The French Mistake. Then there's the episode mentioned here, that is just super corny and even cringeworthy in a couple spots. It's merely okay on first viewing, then completely unwatchable on rewatches...though I usually force myself to suffer through it, as I do the other mediocre episodes, because I don't want to miss any poignant moments between the brothers. You go ahead and enjoy it all you like, more power to ya. Not me.
@kimberlywilmoth9184 my opinion still stands. We all can't have a good sense of humor. I never shit on any episode, even the mediocre ones. Lots of hard work went into every episode. I might not care for certain episodes but I never publicly voice it cuz it's disrespectful to the people who created it.
I remember reading this was less a Supernatural episode and more a pilot for a spin-off that didn't happen.
Wasn't that Bloodlines in season 9? Though your right it does seem like a set up to a spin off
@@patrickmcguire7896 and 13x10 wayward sisters, after some googling I'm pretty sure I was misremembering Bloodline , Ty :-)
@@aluphoss to be fair this and the season 9 one have a very similar feel to them
Although nothing was ever said about it being an attempt at a spin-off, I always had the feeling that maybe the writers were throwing it in there to see what kind of response fans might give.
It featured two protagonists who could have been leads ( even if their relationship was rather weird) and a ready-made background with the witch bar and its frequenters.
But as it was very badly rated at the time, I'm guessing any thoughts on such a thing were shelved immediately. lol.
Dean's issue with Sam was never about trust, he was just worried about him and the effects of the trials, whether he'll survive it or even if he does if they will have lasting effects. And Dean's worries are proven right at the end, the trials did have bigger effects on Sam, he's just been hiding them from Dean. I get that Sam doesn't like overprotective Dean but it is hypocritical of him to berate Dean over trust when he's the one keeping secrets. This is just like with Hallucifer, and if Sam isn't fit enough for basic hunts than he risk his and Dean's life. Both brothers are guilty of keeping their wellbeing secret from one another, but it ruins the bro moment they had at the end when you realize Sam is lying, and him lying feels like its for dramatic effect rather than making sense.
12:37 SAM!!!
I think the idea could have been interesting but it felt so one dimensional. The bits with Dean and Sam were like a bright light in a dim room and amplified the lackluster feeling of the primary plot. Overall, the episode felt flat and clumsy. I really didnt care for the portrayal of Portia; something about it was offputting to me. In the end, it was mostly a shaky vehicle to move the situation of the trials along and Dean's issues with protecting his brother. I think your reaction was fair, accurate and to be expected. We should just file this one under "eh" and move on. 🤷
Was the thing that was offputting the fact that they put a Black woman in a collar and had her call a white man her "master"?
I'm with you on not quite vibing with the characters. And not really all that important to the whole season plot.... Except talking about the trial stuff. And I'm with dean there too lol
I really do not understand how the writers thought this episode was a good concept. It is tone deaf on a number of levels.
Poor Phillip.
I like your hair.
If you need to find a loophole so you can tell a story with sex in it, then just leave the sex stuff out of it. There are just some topics where no matter how you spin it, you are advertising to the world that this is what you're in to.
Carol and her interns. 😉
While I don't think I'd go as far as saying I hate this episode I definitely don't like it. A lot "ick" vibes coming from this one.
Dean 0 Rusty nail 1
You’re not the only one who feels this way about this episode. It’s one of the worst ones of the series written by the worst writers - Ross-Lemming & Buckner. It’s problematic on many levels.
Can't say I hate this episode or any episode in the show, but this is one of the first episodes where I just went
"Who the hell approved this script?"
I like Bucklemming, but this is easily their worst episode
you like Buckleming?! I think very few people like them lol. They do have some good plot episodes - but I think when they're left to their own devices in monster of the week eps, they lose their way. Their plot episodes are probably guided by the show runner a bit more than MOTW
@@PurpleNurpleSPN I know they do have a lot of flaws in their episodes that I agree with the Fandom are kinda dumb. But some of the flaws people find give the impression that they were just looking for flaws.
Idk, I guess it's more that I don't hate them as much as everyone else does?
I think "Hell's Angel" is my favorite episode from them.
@@Crazy-Cocoa-2.0 yeah the fandom can be pretty focussed on flaws sometimes. There's a certain episode I don't mind but isn't liked much and I'm always wanting to defend it! It's like saying 'i like John Winchester' when what you mean is 'I hate him less than everyone else' lol
@@PurpleNurpleSPN That's pretty much my view on Bucklemming
@@Crazy-Cocoa-2.0 Plus, one of them being the show runner's wife can very easily come off as the only reason they were kept around.
This episode was a no for me, a creeper, as in... also not very strong episode as in general.
This is definitely one of my least favorite episodes of the show. I do watch it when it comes up on reaction channels because it usually makes for a funny reaction, but I've seen the full episode exactly one time and that was plenty.
Not one of my favorite episodes
This episode is so fucking weird, I skip it every rewatch...
Ditto