Clutter vs. Hoarding: What’s the difference?
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- Опубліковано 7 сер 2024
- We all have a friend or family member who just can’t seem to get out from under their accumulation of stuff. Their garage, guest bedroom, and basement are packed and you can’t see the top of the kitchen table. But when does "cluttered" become "hoarded?" We have all seen the sensationalized TV depictions of filthy homes that need to be condemned. But is that what hoarding really looks like? And why can’t those folks just throw it all out?
Today’s guest explains myths surrounding hoarding, treatment strategies, and why we all might be at risk.
Guest Information for 'Clutter and Hoarding' Podcast Episode
Elaine Birchall, MSW is the director of Birchall Consulting and the founder of the Canadian National Hoarding Coalition. A hoarding behavior specialist and clutter coach, Elaine provides training, consultations, and counseling to people and organizations across the US and Canada.
About The Psych Central Podcast Host
Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Observations, available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from the author. To learn more about Gabe, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.
There is a level of anxiety of not having something you need when you need it. The thought of having to run out to buy something you need in the moment you need it brings a vision of finding yourself distracted at the store, buying other things and wasting time running out to buy the item you ran out to buy in the first place. It’s very stressful to not have what I need when I need it. It is possible to run out of room to put things, the stress of throwing things away to make room for new things. The other point of anxiety is fear of throwing something away and regretting it later. “Oh why did I throw that coat or sweater away?” I remember going crazy trying to figure out where I put the thing after I threw it away. The fear of having to spend money to replace something creates anxiety for me. It’s the “what if I need it?” Issue.
If you're a minimalist and never had any storage to begin with, you really won't have anything when you need it, and you may not be able to get it at the store, either. Many store shelves are still half empty from the Covid epidemic.
I use to have that mindset. Started to have clean-outs as well as being forced to dispose of things for one reason or another (ex: flooded basement creating mold in boxed items), and on occasion would have the problem of needing something that was tossed. It was frustrating for a short while and then I either got over it, found something that would work as a replacement, or go find a replacement. The hardest loss I had was a grannie’s handmade rag rug she made in the great depression from worn out shirts & other textiles when they were so poor they re-used everything. It was not replaceable and a family heirloom, broke my heart to discover it full of mold in a box after a basement flood. I learned to let go, grieve, and move on. It helped to free me from a lot of the clutter that I was clinging to. Still learning.
My neighbor makes $40,000 a yr. He has no money because of his storage lockers! He saved magazines that are 40 yrs old. Someone will want them! He blames everyone for this because no one will buy them from him. $1000 a month for storage of garbage!
Experience tells me this is the primary trigger for low income people. This can also snowball into hoarding bills, receipts, shopping magazines etc "just in case" something needs to be returned or you need that thing in the magazine you can't afford right now.
@@MisterCynic18 Not just low income people - anyone who has a "scarcity" mindset, like those who lived through the depression and even THEIR children, who have been taught not to waste anything. Both the original post and your comment pretty much describe me. I have to constantly give myself pep talks when trying to get rid of things. Luckily, I have a big house and have managed to pretty much stop buying items. It's still really hard to declutter, though!
I went to a hoarder therapy session in SF, the other hoarders were facinated by my hoard and got all excited about my items, boats, cars, art.Did not help me to not be a hoarder at all
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Covid got me to stop getting rid of things. After income loss, price gouging, scarcity, supply chain issues and the waits, learned my lesson to stop throwing out or giving away things. Because learned multiple times, I needed the things gotten rid of , later.
Both my parents were children during the depression and I could tell it always affected them. Not wanting to throw things away in case they need it someday.
This woman leaves out the fact that clutter is a symptom of Trauma.
When a person is traumatized, they feel like some part of their life is out of control. Having clutter, allows them to have control over some part of their lives.
It could manifest as an eating disorder. A person who feels like they have no control can at least have control over what they eat, or don't eat
@@recoveringsoul755 🙄
I have become a hoarder because I have heart failure and stage 4 breast cancer. I can no longer jump in my car and drive somewhere to get something I need. My home is now over 35 years old and it requires a lot of upkeep which requires a lot of tools. The treatments for my cancer and other illnesses can make me gain or lose weight so I have 3 sizes of clothes for 2 seasons. And then there is the problem of having enough food on hand as I have to pay to have food delivered and the delivery charges can sometimes be larger than the purchase prices. So I hoard. I wish I could say I keep all the stuff I need neatly stored but that takes a lot of energy I don't have. I suspect a lot of seniors, and people with physical challenges, have the same problem.
Sounds like preparing for your current circumstances. I don't get to the store very often. So I buy food differently than before. More shelf stable and canned food than perishables.
I was grateful for my Preps because when I broke my leg, I didn't need to go to the grocery for a month
My house was built in 1856. It's certainly older than yours. I don't keep a lot of tools around, I have to budget maintenance costs into my yearly budget. I know that home maintenance costs about $10,000 a year. I mean, I can't roof the house myself. I appreciate you have cancer. Food delivery is expensive, I never get takeout. I grocery shop about once a month. It might be better for you to do meals on wheels, and a simple breakfast.
I get it just seems so overwhelming to throw away the hoard. I get rid of 2 trash containers per week.
@@EvySurvivedThat's the ticket!!! Good job!
I've told friends I think I'm a hoarder "lite" (I think this is true, from what i know about it, but it's not the term). This video was actually quite helpful. I see exactly what I'm doing (not doing). I'm on the autism spectrum, I get focused on some interest and it is very deep, and then I lose interest and go on to the next thing, but without evaluating whether these things are still what I want to have. I have never realized this before. I have had success working with a personal coach who I am accountable to, but I think I really needed this info here!
I was diagnosed with Hoarding Disorder (and ADHD) at 38, back in ‘2019 - but have been looking into ASD for over a year and my assessment is in process. My point is, for a while I have really been thinking there is a correlation, if not a flat out reason / replacement diagnosis within ASD. I don’t feel I have Hoarding Disorder … I have a few very special (and let’s face it, odd) interests that I’ve allowed to take me and my home over a little too much. Things have been pretty out of whack, but I finally feel I have a legit reason behind it, and a much better direction to go in for coping skills. (Standard exposure therapy and CBT skills haven’t hit the spot, so to speak.)
@@nnylasoR you know yourself best and you are in the position to get to know your self better than anyone else. Spiritually mentally and physically. Have confidence. Nobody should be diagnosing you especially in this day and age about mental disorders.
it's so bogus in my mind. Don't see anybody getting better they are just controlled it's no way to live in my opinion.
Good insight. Nip it in the bud. Too much stuff makes life so much more difficult than it needs to be or ought to be. Best to you!
My mom was a hoarder. Trail from front door to back door. Made a neatfreak out of me!
You made a neat freak out of your own self
Best video on clutter and hoarding. Thankyou for really understanding how life circumstances can overwhelm to make decisions. Sometimes we are I a life a death battle just to survive. We don't need condemnation.
This has been the most succinct description of what hoarding is.
I'm a tool and woodworking hoarder. I keep buying but never use the tools and at my age I should know better. My 3 car garage if full and something has to stop. I'm 76 and why do I keep buying all these woodworking stuff. Since covid started is when I thought buy it now before I can't get it. Now 3 years later I have it all. Now I should sell it all.
Do it! Sell it all. Free yourself.
I am headed out right now to work on cleaning up my garage. No great hoards out there just a mess from too many projects going at one time or just more and more projects. I need to put everything away and start over before next project.
@@shadesofidaho
My problem exactly!
@@GWAYGWAY1 Well at least the garage is as clean and sorted as can be now. And yesterday I did do another project and put things back. Another big project coming up soon. It actually helps me to watch or listen to clutter videos mto motivate me to not let things get that bad here.
Take it easy on yourself. You could live another 20 years start building things with those tools use your skills and every heartbeat you have to make beautiful wood projects
Elaine Birchall has a session online every Wednesday that is free and helpful. That should have been put in the description so people could have that support. Thanks to her for her compassion and expertise.💕. These are also available as recordings on her website.
Hi,would you be able to tell me how I can find this session? Please and thank you.
Creative people have a hard time clearing their creative aspirations.
I’m an organized hoarder. I was shocked they spoke about that. Many ppl don’t see hoarding when they see my place because it’s so well decorated but there is a surplus of certain things due to difficulty making keep or discard decisions. For me it’s mostly paper & digital clutter. But also clothes I can’t fit it. The little things add up. If other ppl were dealing with my clutter they might not find it distressful but I do. I can days & days organizing it so that it appears less cluttered and different items replace the former… lots of churning… it’s a mental health issue combined with executive functioning issues (ADHD in my case).
I live in a rural area in Canada. We have to save things. We cant just go to the store and buy another. That makes decisions to keep or get rid of difficult. Minimalism is for the wealthy.
I could do with more wealth. Maybe I should become a minimalist 😂
There is thrift ( thrifty people save a sensible amount of " stuff" for a rainy day ( or maybe a snowy one in Canada ! ) and there is hoarding.
Long ago when lived with my parents my neighbor Al home extremely neat . In his garage push lawn mower and small tool box . Inside few things in each cabinet and closet . He said his supplies are at the store don’t need anything extra . Most stores within 10 miles some 1/4 mile .
No. This is a confusion. The problem is not that you are in a rural area and/or poor; The problem is you cannot tell what is needed from what is not needed. Your ability to predict the use of an item is faulty. You think that something is good and keep it, when really, maybe it is good for someone else, but for you it has no use in the future; it seems like it will have a use, but you will live your life and die, and the item will never be used, but it will functionally impair you. You cannot accurately predict this due to hoarding.
@@pingupenguin2474My neighbors offered to help me clean out my garage, I accepted. For payment I asked them to barter tools and products still packaged. win win for sure. I live out in the country.
1. Could be that a person recognizes that things are out of hand, yet has no energy to deal or skill to deal with it
2) I can imagine someone doing stuff in the bed due to depression
3)
Or just overwhelmed. I'm very much this way. I think I'm not too bad on the grand scale of things (from what I have seen). I have someone working with me but it is more on a behavioral level. She keeps me accountable that kind of thing.
Or recovering from surgical, medical complications & trauma, which can set people back disabled for a year or more to a healthy state.
Mom grew up broke, got access to cash when she was older. Now she holds onto everything thinking stuff like what if the world ends, they dont make things as good of quality anymore, i couldn't possibly get rid of this. Honestly that's where i think a hanfull of people come from. Though her sisters were both diagnosed bipolar and severe depression so she has a bit of genetics against her. Me i can tell im VERY clingy to items and love shopping but watching my mom from the inside makes me determined to not go down that road. I have a number of each item i can own like shirts, pants, plates, pits/pans, etc.
I grew up poor and had to get rid of 90% of my stuff every time we did a move far away. Much of the stuff I had was second hand or given away. Left home with one small army kit bag that fit everything. I can relate to the feeling of not wanting to get rid of items of quality or usefulness but I have set containers for each category of item and if they are full then stuff has to go, no buying new containers. Use the two year rule for this, especially outdoors stuff, hasn't been used in two years or no potential use in sight and it goes. Works most of the time!!!!
I grew up in an average 2 kid family. My parents divorced when I was 10. Our finances changed DRASTICALLY...free lunch and 2 pairs of pants during 6th grade. I still remember being laughed at and teased about it. I feel I dont want to be without clothes or food again. I NEVER want my kids to open a cabinet and see 2 cans of beans and nothing else. I wouldn't eat at school because all knew what a pink lunch card meant. After school I would run 3 blocks to grandparents house and eat 2 sandwiches. Yes, I am overweight now as well as a horder
My mom is just the same. Unstable and unable to help herself
@@user-ce8tt6kt1u We had periods of being kept on bare minimum food through a Cluster B parent, if the world is failing to see how superior and outstanding you are even though you don't actually do much of anything then you can always go control freak on your kids and half starve them to feed that bottomless pit of an ego. I kept some habits when I left home around food like I would pack margarine/butter on any bread because that was one of the few food items not usually monitored. I would eat like I wasn't getting fed again everytime I ate, I've no need to tell you anymore, you know. The one thing I I did that helped me with these habits (years later) was I had my own stockpile, doesn't have to be huge but it can't be part of your families, it's just yours. It gradually worked as my head said "I'll be fine, I've got the things, I have the control". Maybe this could be of help.
I was just scrolling and was shocked. I wondered how a photo of my shop got online!! If I could leave a photo if I could. 😂 looks like your photo.
My hoarder older sister used to live in our parents' house. All she did was spreading her hoardings to 80% of the house areas. It was hell to get rid of her massive hoardings when she simply moved out while demanding that her hoardings should be kept. I still have huge resentments to this woman.
Your sister is traumatized. I hope you stop projecting resentment energy to her, it would only make her symptom more serious. Not to mention making her feel more isolated. Many hoarders feel extremely lonely.
@@333houseoflightEasy for you to say. I stop thinking this way as she feels more entitled being a forever victim due to her own problems. She traumatized me, causing me to have huge anxiety due to her negligence in cleanliness/safety and her massive temper (physical and verbal abuse). She made us feel very isolated as we were unable to bring guests into our house. I have my own problems too but at least I don't make other people suffer and deal with the consequences of my own actions.
You need to stop victim blaming me back. You don't know and you don't live with my older sister. I don't appreciate your response as you make me feel that all my sufferings because of her are invalid. You really pissed me off.
You come across as very ignorant by projecting your own beliefs on me. Perhaps you should open your house for hoarders to live in and try to experience it first hand by sacrificing yourself.
@@333houseoflight I hope you stop projecting that condescending energy to people you don't know enough about, and public.
Traumatized people are not entitled to other people's tolerance to harm they're causing.
My younger sister trashed my Mom and Dad's house to the point the authorities stepped in.Someone else called them. Mom had to be moved out. Half sister had to move out until the repairs were made. No running water for over 2 years, big holes in the floors. Floors sagging from the excessive weight. It was a manufactured home not on full foundation. One bathroom totally full of cat poop and the cat had been dead for a few years at that time and she had 5 dogs IN the house. As far as I know 3 years after Mom died house is still trashed. Makes me sick Mom was treated this way but Mom would not leave her home until forced to do so by the authorities.
@@hadotonini1189 GAWD are we related with the SAME sister??? Scary. you perfectly described my half sister.
I'd be interested in the connection between alcoholics and clutter or hoarding tendencies.
Or other addictions as well.
I would think shopaholics/QVC watchers would have more hoarding tendencies than alcoholism per se.
@@maam-yj8phagreed! A lot of addicts will sell their things for their substance
Or overworkers chronically sleep deprived, who don't have time for anything, let alone think straight and organize. They often buy things more than once, not realizing they already have the item.
What about the connection between greed and hoarding?
I knew this lady whose daughter constantly complained of her hoarding, but it was the first place she ran to when she had a project.
There's a lot more hysteria about hoarding than there was 20 years ago, but there's more anxiety about almost everything than there was.
It seems like there are a lot more hoarders these days. You can tell by driving by their house in the neighborhood. A lot more houses have filled up front porches which is an indication of what’s inside.
I love buying Knick knacks but once it’s baught it’s just clutter . I am trying to cut down the visual clutter
Very clear and helpful.
This is very helpful. Thank you!
And he said unto them, Take heed and beware of covereousness; for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth. Luke 12:15 . .my go to scripture to keep out clutter.
Not mutually exclusive.
it's okay to have things you don't have to worship them.
@@wednesday6127it means possessions are not you or your life.
Awesome and informative!!!!
Look up Dana K White. She's very helpful in getting someone to start decluttering their home when you don't know how to begin.
09:00
You scared me there for a minute. When you talked about four toasters. I only have 2 toasters. Two slices each. One for my house in town and one for my countryside property. I hope I'm going to be all right but you did have me worried LOL not.
Thank you for this🎉
I wonder how being on the spectrum affects the chances that you will become a hoarder.
There are links on this.
I know of a woman her house is infested with mice. Some got into a drawer full of clothes she took out 1 blouse and said I want to mend these clothes. Mice are coming out from the ceiling into a light fixture. Her stove refrigerator microwave food shelves and cupboards all mice infested. She was making cookies opened up a package of dates sliced them open only to find cream colored worms she scooped them out with a small knife cut up the dates and made cookies. She treats her husband like crap. Married 40+ years he is so beat down.....she is a narc in my opinion
Hmmmm, I wonder whether preppers are hoarders as well ........ 🤔
OH My I am/was doomed to hoard. Mother and two half sisters full on filthy house hoarders. Unless it is considered house plants a hoard. I have had them since the 70's. Yah I am older than dirt. I am easily able to let go of things. since hubby died 7 years ago I have let my house plants get bigger and when so many others got on the bandwagon of house plants during the lockdowns more varieties have become available. BUT My house is clean I have my art supplies sorted and stored nicely. My garage is a sore spot because I am into so many odd ball building projects I am forever dragging tools out. BUT I do use up my stash of saved items for projects. I also have a local thrift store and I always keep a box going to take the usable things to. I hate filth. I just want everything organized and sorted so I can consistently find things. My memory is not what it used to be. LOL great podcast here. Thanks!
That sounds amazing. It's great to have a lot of interest and you always have a choice of something interesting to do.
@@wednesday6127 OH I know. I can not understand someone being board. Raining hard today. I am overjoyed for the rains to finish putting out a 6500 acre local fire. I am also thrilled because I get to spend time working on a beaded lamp shade. Yes I jump from mosaics to beading even to quilting. Most other crafting items have been given away.
@@shadesofidaho you are after my very heart. I love having my choice of things to do. I know who I am and I have no intention of putting things out of my life that I know I enjoy. If I don't get to them so be it. It's nice to complete something but the process is also very enjoyable to me.
@@shadesofidaho I just re-read your comment. I started a macrame lamp shade quite a number of years ago. I will get back to it at some point or not. But if and when I do it's going to totally engage my attention. I love to macrame I do have other things to do right now that take precedent in the form of home repairs LOL but hey.
🤷
Nice chatting with you.😊
@@wednesday6127 OH Yes I have other things I should be doing too but kind of trapped inside by the rain. And even if not raining at this moment everything is sloppy wet. I have to do some repairs to my out door kitty kennel. The enclosed part. and the door on it is sagging. Need to tighten brace that up. Lots of house painting repairs to do and some inside small touch up paint projects. I have been pushing pretty hard the last few days so it is kind of nice to just take a me kind of day. BUT only after all must do daily chores are done!! That is a hard fast rule for me. Keep animals cared for , house plants cared for, house picked up and cleaned where needed. Then I can play.
My landlady is battling this problem in secret. She doesnt know I know, but one night she was away, her cat was crying to be let out, and I saw her room 😢.
I get the fear of not having something you may need, but the reality of her living space now, is much more real than any of the fears 😮💔😪
She has gone out of her way to hide it, so I will keep her secret and have patience as much as possible.
Or until rats mice fleas infest your home coming from the landlady.
Stop denying your problems, That is the FIRST step to getting free from your "neuroses". I have collected my broken cigarette-lighters just for spare parts(i have actually used them to repair others) but it is really Contra Intuitive and Contra productive at the same time because it is much more easy to buy a new one than to keep broken lighters in a drawer, Right?. I saved empty pill charts for like 2 years because i actually wanted to do an "Art piece" out of it, like a view of the passing of time(but mostly Life) when i glued empty Ritalin charts in a sculpture of sorts. The latter was an actually good idea when it comes to use of such things, but i later just threw them away because i got better ideas. But here is the difference, if you KNOW what you can do with your hoarded stuff it's ok, but if you just think so but can't really explain it in a logical way you are controlled by the Neurotic compulsive idea factory instead of yourself, and when it feels BAD to throw away something just analyze it in your head logically and try to find out if THIS object is hard to throw because of a compulsion/"neurosis" or if it is actually worth when you prioritize what you want to do and what stuff that could get in the way, or for that matter TAKE UP space that you can use for the "Real" things... I have generalized Anxiety disorder, ADHD, Dysthymia, Seasonal affective disorder and a bit of OCD so i know this behaviour REALLY well, and i can just say that it is MUCH more connected to Anxiety/Sentimentality than just PURE OCD because there is no structure in the sorting as such but rather just for the moment, but much more abstract than not.
im the opposite of a hoarder im here to determine if my fiance is a hoarder. I took her car to have it professionally cleaned and it was filthy. The detailer guy didnt want to clean it i had to pay extra. With in a couple weeks it was back the same way. This is gonna be an issue because i cant handle clutter or hoarding it feels like clausterphobia to me.
I know exactly what you're talking about! Mess around me creates the mess in my mind, makes me nervous and anxious!
I can't stand mess.... I don't want to waste my time and energy going around and trying to find something I need at that moment, I don't even want to think for a sec where some stuff could be, I know exactly where it is, bc I always put things at the same, right place! Simply!
No mess, no stress!
Even though my aptm has never been cluttered, I get rid of some stuff every spring (or summer), I just don't need it.
So, everything is good organised, spacious and easy and quickly to clean! Just the daily routine.
Good luck mate, she might needs just a little help being better organized, we're not all the same.
Good advice much appreciated.
My whole house looks like the picture. Every time I turn around my partner is bringing a new box into my house.
You may want to consider counseling for yourself if your partner will not…
That dark brown and orange crocheted Afghan in the upper right hand corner. You mean you have that at your house I threw one out like that about six years ago LOL.
I think a lot of videos on u tube are cruel and one size fits all. Im going through mu fabric stash right now as im listening to this video.
I buy things on Amazon and other sights watch and wait for there delivery . It comes and know what is in the box put the box in the stacks and never open it. If its something I think I will need to do the work I have to get it.I buy a lot of stuff. I know it has to stop but hate to sell items for less than what I paid for it. I also hate dealing with people that want to steal it rather than buy it. And sit waiting for someone and they never show up. I would rather give it to the Salvation Army or Goodwill.
Close your online accounts and give yourself a debit card with a certain amount on it every month. I know someone who had an infestation that got into their boxes, making their stuff unsellable. Had to be thrown away in the end. Wasted.
That’s it. I’m literally going to fill as many garbage bags and boxes as I can and taking it to the dump! I’m never going to inflict the the trauma and pain my hoarding mom put on our family. She hoarded things and cats. She had almost 40 cats!!! She was torched to find homes for all but two in two weeks time or she’d be evicted. Thank god for pet sanctuaries!!! My dad was tidy, punctual and ex military. She was never on time, kept them in debt with her spending and collected cats! When he had a mental breakdown over it she left him and got a divorce. He killed himself less than a year later. Hoarders are more than messy junk collectors. They make you feel like you don’t matter and you slowly become dead inside. No coddling for hoarders!
Bless your heart ♥ I'm sorry to hear that about your parents. Go for it! Take charge now over your home.
Narcissistic Can we say Hoarders=Abuse
Did you even listen to the video? Hoarding is a mental disorder and your mom suffered from it. I hate that you and your family were traumatized by her hoarding and I understand she didn't choose it and hurting you wasn't her goal. She had a brain disorder.
If you're going to hoard, you have to store things properly, so bugs or other parasites and pests don't infest.
This goes for clothes, yarn, food, and be careful of wet or damp items that can become moldy...... please please keep things clean and stored properly.
OF course it's not good to hoard, it's a sin or mental illness.... but what's worse than a home without space? A home without space to move that is also infested with unwanted intruders.
clutter is organized, hoard is unorganized