I like how little time passed since they increased the number of boosters in a box to justify the price hike just to undo everything. They're not even trying.
I think THIS may just be my final straw. Their ENTIRE reasoning behind increasing the price of the boxes was because the number of packs per box was increasing. Now it's the new, higher price and the old number of packs again. I think I've purchased my last sealed MtG ever. Huh...I thought I'd feel more sad.
@@thegreatestblood next time you are at your LGS ask to see a murders at karlov manor and outlaws of thunder junction play booster box. There is a section of the box that gives the percentage of pulling 2-4 rare cards. They decreased the chances when outlaws came out.
If I buy boxes from here on out it'll only be for drafting stuff like Crimson Vow / Midnight Hunt (not Double Feature, lololol) or whatever boxes are floating around for ~$100
"Dear John, Foundations was the final fling, a one off last moment of passion. Dragonstorm will will not fix our relationship. It's over, this game isn't for you, move on." - WotC
Well said. It's amazing to me that more people don't just simply print their own stuff. Let them make the game, we don't have to pay them for it though.
Welp... the other shoe dropped. Foundations had a lot of nice cards and looked confident. It looks like this is how Wizards decided to screw everything up.
Hardly, wotc don't make a cent off of someone buying secondary market cards that have already been opened. People buying copies of cards that have been sitting on a shelf for months or years isn't making wotc any more money than they already had. Commander players don't buy boxes and crack packs, they just buy singles.
@@BusinessSkrub...dude, where do you think those singles come from? People who purchase and crack packs, which in turn supports WOTC. Proxying is the only way to partake in mtg without supporting WOTC, directly or indirectly
@aaronlucko6952 of course proxying is the only way to not support period, I'm just saying that buying singles from packs that have already been purchased and opened isn't giving them any MORE money. They already got that pack money when the supplier bought it. Buying MORE PACKS on your own gives wotc MORE money. It's not rocket surgery lmao
@@BusinessSkrub Ah gotcha. I still disagree though, as sales from cracked packs can drive people/businesses to purchase and open more in the future to sell. But that is getting in to splitting hair territory
i remember when all you could buy were draft boxes. thw rest were boxes of tournament packs or precons. im probably dating myself.
Місяць тому+12
20 ways to see bots buying out the SL, then trying to resell overpriced cards then dropping price cause no one is buying that BS, just like Marvel prices are dropping
Ooof, what a letdown. No surprise with that "shrinkflation", however they try to justify it - it is to cut costs and trim down packaging per booster box obviously. I got 3 of the 4 previous SLD commander decks (Heads I win, Cats/Dogs, Cute/Brute; missing the Angels one) but checking that new "20 ways" it just feels even more random and incoherent. Just take all playable cards that say "you win the game" they can reprint and shove them into a "deck". Rather lazy! Well, I guess that makes it an easy pass!
Between universes beyond and the terrible sets of late i have never purchased less sealed product. Proxies and cheap singles and the occasional commander deck until things change.
Yes, I hear what you are saying...I would buy sealed product for every standard set. BUT since the play boosters began 2024 has been the smallest amount of packs i've bought in a year. 2025 will be even lighter as far as what I want to buy due to all the U/B products.
Switching to 36 was not a nod to draft.. it was a way to soften the change to play boosters which are 95% draft boosters but with the price of set ... but I think the idea was always to drop back. the set booster boxes sold fine because they had much better content .. play boosters do not have it
I feel like they curated this decklist for maximum scalping profits than actual playability. I can see some cards I want, but would never play this trash heap as built.
It seems fine, this is one of the times i think its okay but being exaggerated as bad. Most of them are 2 card win combos and will work fine in casual pods.
The only way I could think of to see "20 Ways to Win" working is if you play it as a noob trap and distract your opponents with the fake wincons long enough to get the real one going. The reminder text for Eggnogger's 'Stache exclaiming things was a bit goofy. I actually forgot Loot was even a thing, in part because I stopped playing MtG before Thunder Junction and the "Space baby" reveal that ... they never tried to make any sense out of that, did they?
The amount of adjustments WotC makes to their products is just insane. Idk how people keep up with them lol. It feels so reactionary instead of planned.
Yeah it's funny how people think they can't correct course quickly bc everything is already set in stone years in advance. But all their choices feel rushed and reactionary already why can't they do the same thing only in a positive direction?
It makes perfect sense when you realize that both WoTC and Hasbro are rapidly bleeding out and struggle for survival. The thing is that they are kind of like animal in a snare - the more they struggle, the more messed up is their situation. I don't see them surviving for long with the way how they are acting.
Having a Gates package used to be a terrible idea, but they remembered to include both the “Thriving” Gates (one color base, pick a second color when it enters) AND the colorless/rainbow Gates (Baulder’s, Gateway Plaza, Gond, Heap), meaning they remembered all the synergistic and good Gate Lands and even Circuitous Route, one of the ramp spells that can get Gates. So you can actually meaningfully use the gates and even have them come in untapped if you do it right. I’ll even forgive not having the MH3 Gate due to how recent that is. But they didn’t include Basilisk, which could actually act as a payoff by buffing for Commander Damage or one of the lifegain effects, or The Black Gate, or any of of the other Gate searching cards or payoffs? Feels as weird as the decision of going for the “20 win cons” meme when a few strategic swaps could have solidified the ability of the deck to actually win unexpectedly. There are definitely some sneaky surprises in there…Maskwood Nexus turns on Liliana’s Contract, for example. I guess they wanted to make it feel janky but easy to upgrade? Like I can definitely see how a few minor changes could make this deck fast enough for current Commander, but honestly it really boils down to “better ramp package” and shifting the focus away from Enchantments just a little bit. Can’t help but notice how weird the non-gates lands are too…feels like they could have easily won over players by having more of the bond/crowd lands instead of going into the weeds for filter and tap lands that are specifically Green/White. Guess I won’t complain about the World Tree, it’s really there for the Chromatic Lantern effect and surprise interaction with Maskwood Nexus again and not actually being a Gods deck. I dunno. I want to like it, but it feels very obvious that both the actual power level / synergy of the deck and the secondary market value of the reprints were throttled to a very specific spot to avoid giving us too good or valuable of a deck.
I don't see why WoTC would be hesitant to put much value into the Secret Lair precon now that they are limited production and will be producing less of them than before.
My favourite game and I love to play and usually buy at least 10 boxes a year, but have not bought a box in 12 months and do not intend to buy any in the future
Yeah that would be weird if an irrelevant game like Pokemon sold their product direct. People would definitely hate that and it would never work because its stupid.
I feel like the "20 Ways to Win" "deck" is not really meant to be a playable deck. It is a meme full of memes, stacked on memes, next to a plate full of memes. That being said, the deck contains a bunch of fun against-the-odds style build-arounds, many of which have some kind of nifty looking new art. Personally, I love to build decks around janky-ass jank, and I am kind of looking forward to this random pile of cards. On Arena, I have a Maze's End deck that I've been playing in historic for a while (and now have a standard version of the deck, since it is back), I have a red-control Millennium Calendar deck that I love, and a super-janky Mutavault / Book of Exalted Deeds deck that hopes to win with Approach of the Second Sun or Axis of Mortality. I've even built the Millennium Calendar deck in paper (I like it that much). I'm not really trying to yum your yuck, but I absolutely see the appeal of this drop. I am 100% down for it, mostly so that I can dismantle it for parts (I've been wanting to build a Maze's End commander deck, so this may be the kick in the pants I need, since it looks like about a quarter the deck is already there).
I think this is the 5th Commander deck. Heads I Win, Tales You Lose; Cute to Brute, Cats and Dogs, Angels, and then this one. I'd also point out the last Commander Deck has now more than doubled in value in a year.
Nah, they’re going to drop to 30 packs and leave the price the same. They know players wouldn’t accept a 15% increase (6 packs of 36) so just cut the amount of packs. Straight greed
another thing i don't like about the secret lair deck is "shrine" is not a creature type. there's not actually any ways in the deck to make shrine tokens outside of go-shintai entering itself.
Last week the manager of my LGS tells me they're organizing this $1,000 Standard RCQ (this is the first time we've had an RCQ for Standard in ages). Sweet. Later I see the announcement posted on Facebook, and I notice the two cards on the banner image thing are SLD cards that are.. not legal in Standard. Mayhem Devil and Force of Despair. I figured one of the "Pokemon Guys" who work there made the ad and just didn't know better, so I texted my friend about it. Nope. It's not two random SLD cards slapped together in Photoshop by Pokemon Guys who don't know better. Those are the RCQ Promos. He sent me a screenshot of the WPN email to the store announcing it. So yeah the official event promos for the STANDARD FORMAT RCQs from now until March around here (everywhere?) are cards NOT legal to play in Standard Format. Is that normal and I'm just that out of the loop, or does that just make no damn sense?
Bro wtf they already shrinkflated the fuck out of my set boosters by taking the damm rares out in the playboosters and now we get FEWER PACKS A BOX WTF
Yeah, no. I'm good living in the past and all of my older cards, making commanders out of them is fine for me, have given up on sealed product since bloomburrow hit and it is just getting worse. Black Friday this year had reductions across the board that only removed delivery cost of 4-5 euro. It's the beginning of the end.
Oh I REMEMBER the coin flip deck! I bought it when it came out. The coin didn't break on me, but I do remember it flying into my buddy's drink when I flipped it. Still surprised it didn't break!
I mean, Maskwood Nexus makes ALL your creatures Demons. You don't just need to wait until you crank out three Shapeshifter tokens. You remember Oukun, I always forget him and remember Z'n'dr'splt.
we can obviously tell where their priorities are because it isnt the game anymore. just looking to milk out what they can from remaining players, and new arena players. company is complete garbage.
After watching your recent video talking about how little they pay artists (and no more royalties), I finally uninstalled Arena. Already had moved away from historic and brawl bc of alchemy. But was always upset that I'd have to exclude a bunch of cards to play explorer. Had eventually found myself mostly drafting - only played regular games to occasionally climb the ranks or do my dailies. They've ruined commander, they've ruined arena, they've abandoned the mtg lore, aren't paying artists. You also mentioned in that previous video that they fired all those people last Christmas time. Just yeah. There's nothing to support left here. Not until they course correct in a major way and for a long time. Sorry that's so long and somewhat incoherent. It's just a sad state because I LOVE magic. Hoping the mtg community learns from the DnD community to support artists and other creators. They've forced wotc to reverse some horrific decisions by unsubscribing from their services and unanimously saying hey wotc WE HAVE THE BOOKS we don't need you. Same with magic. They've already printed tons of sets for us to build decks from, we don't need wotc anymore.
In some regard, what WotC is doing is almost funny. I've really wanted to purchase and open my first booster box after probably 15 years. Then, after watching several people open Foundations Booster Boxes I was like '...wtf!? I would be so pissed after paying that amount of money and then getting only...THAT.' on literally every box opened I've seen. So that desire already died. Then the weird SL Commander Deck which will still be sold out after 10 minutes. I mean it kinda is our own fault that WotC keeps spitting us in the face. If we customers as a whole keep supporting that bullshit it will only become worse and worse. With every set they make an announcement that makes life worse for us.
@@registereduser Very sorry to hear that. I kinda feel like that Foundations is even worse when it comes to that. Not that many cards to be very happy about if you hit them in a Booster.
@@style0vertalent191 buying sealed has never been a good idea, value wise, but now it’s not even worth that “opening packs” feeling, when most rares are .50 cents you can get pretty much most cards you’d want for a booster box/bundle price.
@@registereduser That's true. And the constant decline of the product and it's contents itself doesn't help with that either. Also, I don't know about the quality of the Foils in the Boosters but the quality of the foiled cards in the Starter Collection is, once again, abysmal. Didn't take them more than ~3 days to take the shape of a Pringles chip. I'm even having a hard time shuffling my deck without actually feeling the position of a foiled card despite being sleeved. And I'm not even getting started on the horrible card quality of the 3 Boosters that were part of that box. They feel and smell like the Commander Starter Decks. I had to double-sleeve the 2 Commander Starters I've purchased back then because the smell is unbearable to me. Like some old table fireworks from the 80's and 90's. There is some kind of powder on the cards, too, that even rubs off and then your hands and sleeves smell the same. Annoying, disappointing. Like that, a set that should say 'Welcome New Players!' basically ends up saying 'F*ck You and take a look at how we want to rip you off in the future!'. Meh...
@ I hate the “guaranteed foil” in the one pack and how many are in the collector boosters. If I get a foil, I cross my fingers it’s not a money card because with the curling it’s essentially worthless. Back in the day (I’ll just ballpark it at Invasion block, because I’ve been playing for a long time), opening a foil, even a common sometimes, was exciting. I have a Phyrexian Arena foil and Ice Cave foil from that era that survived in an Ultra Pro page until now without curling. Including years when the binder was in a box in a basement forever. They were “built different” than today’s foils. I didn’t get any of the starter commander decks, but that’s less than stellar info. Good job WoTC. I got some cards I’ll slot in decks in my boosters, don’t get me wrong…but I paid a bunch of “extra” to scratch the pack cracking, gambling itch. “You can open as many as X rares!”….Iknow the odds are ever not in your favor, but in practice I usually get the one and feel shafted sometimes on uncommons to go with it. I could never buy another card and make a million new decks with the collection I’ve built up, so there’s that I suppose.
I feel like redundant win cons is fine. If you get close to fifty and it gets exiled and then later you draw the forty win con it's just a backup. I see no problem with this.
When I was a teen, a booster box or starter box cost ~$150 in Australia (less for expansions like Legends, Homelands etc). Now they're around $250 to $275 for a booster box (~$400 to 500 for a Collector box). If they hit 300 for a box with less cards in worse-feeling packs, I'll be done buying anything other than singles.
you can make Liliana's contract work making use of the various enchantments and the artifact that lets you effectively make your creatures become changlings and i would use the two equipment that makes the equipped creature any creature type and i would run the Sliver Hivelord as the commander, even if it was the only "sliver" in the entire deck. There's a neat thing you can do with Felidar Soveriegn, but you need Dark Ritual, Animate Dead/Dance of the Dead, and Entomb. i love the idea of what this deck wants to do, but it feels like if they don't already have Thassa's Oracle in there, it should be and with Tainted Pact and Demonic Consultation. And NONE of these cards are particularly expensive. There are easy ways they could fix the mana problem, there are several cards like Spelunking, Tiller Machine, and Amulet of Vigor. And i'd assume they'd just not put in Amulet of Vigor because now it's close to that "expensive" card situation. Other than that, there's a load of cheap tutor spells they could put in the deck including Rune Scarred Demon.
In fairness, my buddy has a Mono Green Loot deck that’s absolutely killer. I did like a lot of the Green Foundations creatures. Eagerly awaiting my 2.50$-3$ Bootleg Scythecat Cub. Just got a foil etched Cyclonic Rift, extended Spring Three Tree City, Bloomburrow Sword of Feast and Famine, borderless Clever Concealment, borderless Ohran Frostfang, MH3 Wooded Foothills, Windswept Heath, borderless Temple Garden and Stomping Ground, foil etched Avacyn, AoH, and a borderless Prismatic Vista 30$ + 3.99$ shipping.
20 ways to win secret lair: I thought this is a salt deck?! I guess it's supposed to be a comedy deck and everyone's supposed to laugh at the way you try to win in so many silly ways. In reality, won't everybody be mad at you for winning with these novelty gags? The only thing that hooked me was the cutesy artwork that they posted on the secret lair website. I think the price of $145 is outrageously high for this deck. True, I paid scalpers on eBay to get four of the five Marvel secret drop sets, so I think I'll just take that $145 and keep buying Singletons to complete building my superhero decks to my satisfaction.
Cards that say "you win" on them shouldn't even exist. That isn't just my opinion... RG, Rosewater, Gavin, and other designers at WOTC have said the same. So why do they keep printing them?
Down at Hasbro-WoTC: Executive: Pinkertons got to eat. Hike the prices, Ned! Employee: Uh, boss, we made Ned redundant last week... Executive: Oh fine, Phil, you hike them. Employee: Phil we made redundant last year.... Executive: huh? I forgot we got rid of Phil, I was his best man too. Hmmm, Who are you then? Employee: I'm Bif, the Pinkerton, finance specialist, AI art lead, the entire eco department, and Human Resources. Executive:....whatever, Hike the prices by noon or your fired!
I imagine well be paying the same.price or more for less packs. We're already getting screwed with less rares in the play pack. Pretty soon it's all gonna be $10 value packs smh
i switched primaryly to building LEGO now. i play Standard, and buy the cards i need for my 2 or 3 meta decks, but i dont draft anymore and i dont even go to prereleases anymore.... mtg is getting to expensive and i am single and in middle class but now...
Honestly I think they wanted to make a Secret Lair with the 20 wincon cards and the Commander staples, but then they figured out if they're already making a 25~ cards Secret Lair they might as well make it into a Commander Deck and charge more.
Okruam.AND zndyrsplit was the first SL deck. Then angels. Then cats and dogs. Angels slipped right under everybody's radar as far as I noticed, but this will be the FOURTH secret lair dexk
They already shrunk booster boxes when they ended 15 card Draft Boosters packs and made 14 card Play Boosters. Looks like they are trying to pass on mismanagement costs to customers.
This should be illegal, increasing the size and price and then afterwards reducing the size but not reducing the prize to try to sneakily increase prices. Absolutely disgusting malpractice.
You gotta look at the secret lair deck like this: "Hey we cant just make a whole new set to give you all the win condition cards, nor would it be big enough--so here's all the cards. But we are selling it with extra cards for you to make it a whole deck. Pretty sneaky cool huh?" It's not to be a good deck but just to get all those win cons in your hand in one lump purchase.
I have a deck that wins with Maze’s End but it’s a simic land deck that has two or three ways to win. Not twenty. I have a superfriends deck that has around twenty ways to win technically, just diff combos of walkers to do a few different win cons.
Unless you play limited, there is absolutey zero value in buying a box. 90% of the time you’ll only get your money back on cards you dont necessarily want.
i think this Commander deck is something to buy a few of and store away. It wouldn't take much for any one of these instant win cards to become incredibly broken and shoot up in value based on future combo possibilities.
while i agree that the aetherdrift box having less packs is bad but hopefully the msrp is lower than the 36 pack boxes but for the secret lair deck i just see it as a fun deck with that yes will be eventualy scrapped for parts but its not like that's inherently a bad thing though, and as far as the eggnoggers stache its an acorn card man WHY would you ever look at it for is strategic viability like seriously man that make no sense and hey man if you dont like loot thats fine but dont act like thats not the only bad thing about this card dude.
I have been just buying a few singles for commander with each new for years now, as it is the only format I still play. I refuse to spend more on a company that keeps increasing price of cardboard. Seriously, how inept you have to be to already have such prices and still think you're not earning enough, it just means internal costs are bloated (or that Hasbro orders you to milk consumers because they are inept as a company, not sure which is worse).
There's no way you just seriously critiqued the playability of a holiday promo card. The level of "whiny baby" during the segment on the secret lair was pretty cringe-worthy too.
Don't mean to be critical or to overcorrect you but technically yes 10 cuz after May's activates on the 9th time nasal go to hand and you'll have 10 lands for the wind condition on field
Wizards got too greedy and alienated enfranchaised standard players by making tons of changes that their customer base has been complaining about for the last 8 years. Instead they've doubled down on commander, an eternal format. It's not a big surprise product is not moving as well as it used to when draft and standard (a rotating format) were the formats their customers supported.
This is the 4th commander deck secret lair. The first was the coin flip, then the angels, and then the cats and dogs deck. Out of all of the secret lair commander decks though, this one is easily the worst
So basically people are really only buying Collectors boxes… which means people prefer collecting or blinged-out commander decks instead of playing/standard….
So I read that they are finally using msrp on commander decks so they will be a set price starting next year any truth to this and if so they will probably lower the power levels in the precons idk 🤷♂️
Yet another example of Wizards going CHEAP! 30 packs in a box which is close to a 18% decrease. This is terrible plus there will be several more price increases in 2025. I will not be buying any Play Booster boxes in 2025 unless I can get them for $100.00 a box which is a pipe dream. Wizards made this special Holiday Loot just for you! 🤣Thank you for the video Magic Historian.
It's a shame. Nice sets coming, and my urge to participate is dwindling. I might catch a pre release or something for fun, but I dunno about collecting anymore.
I'm not very price sensitive, I understand how inflation works and my salary gets corrected accordingly so I'm fine with a price increase.. The bigger issue however is that they've been releasing sets that just aren't very interesting (to me, like Duskmourn, Karlov, Outlaws, Foundations) . Aetherdrift sounds like one which I don't really care about (as I think vehicles are not interesting). And this means I simply don't buy a box and that'll cost Wotc more than the price increase
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I'm willing to bet Hasbro is behind this, as opposed to WoTC
I like how little time passed since they increased the number of boosters in a box to justify the price hike just to undo everything. They're not even trying.
What do you mean? 160 sets have been pumped out since then 😂
I think THIS may just be my final straw. Their ENTIRE reasoning behind increasing the price of the boxes was because the number of packs per box was increasing. Now it's the new, higher price and the old number of packs again.
I think I've purchased my last sealed MtG ever. Huh...I thought I'd feel more sad.
Reducing the chances of rares from murders to outlaws wasn't enough?
@@alejandrososa5097wait that happened to normal boosters? Care to brief me in a little bit?
@@thegreatestblood next time you are at your LGS ask to see a murders at karlov manor and outlaws of thunder junction play booster box. There is a section of the box that gives the percentage of pulling 2-4 rare cards. They decreased the chances when outlaws came out.
If I buy boxes from here on out it'll only be for drafting stuff like Crimson Vow / Midnight Hunt (not Double Feature, lololol) or whatever boxes are floating around for ~$100
Really? This is what did it? This was the final straw? Your standards are that low? Common dude.
You know what else is gonna shrink? The number of players.
"Dear John,
Foundations was the final fling, a one off last moment of passion. Dragonstorm will will not fix our relationship. It's over, this game isn't for you, move on." - WotC
$150 on booster box is nutz. My hunting and fishing cost less. And that "hobby" feeds me. All I'll say is bootleg mtg
Well said. It's amazing to me that more people don't just simply print their own stuff. Let them make the game, we don't have to pay them for it though.
The price per booster continuously increases, as the number of desirable cards continuously decreases.
My son and I watching your videos
Son: I'm a wizard! (Looks at me)
Me: I'm an old wizard!
Son: Yea you are!
Me: (dies a little inside)
I'm sure it made your bones hurt
hey, at least you're a wizard!
Savage kid. Lol
Welp... the other shoe dropped.
Foundations had a lot of nice cards and looked confident. It looks like this is how Wizards decided to screw everything up.
Seems like this is a commander deck made to lure you into making twenty other commander decks
Hardly, wotc don't make a cent off of someone buying secondary market cards that have already been opened. People buying copies of cards that have been sitting on a shelf for months or years isn't making wotc any more money than they already had. Commander players don't buy boxes and crack packs, they just buy singles.
@@BusinessSkrub...dude, where do you think those singles come from? People who purchase and crack packs, which in turn supports WOTC. Proxying is the only way to partake in mtg without supporting WOTC, directly or indirectly
@aaronlucko6952 of course proxying is the only way to not support period, I'm just saying that buying singles from packs that have already been purchased and opened isn't giving them any MORE money. They already got that pack money when the supplier bought it. Buying MORE PACKS on your own gives wotc MORE money. It's not rocket surgery lmao
@@BusinessSkrub Ah gotcha. I still disagree though, as sales from cracked packs can drive people/businesses to purchase and open more in the future to sell. But that is getting in to splitting hair territory
I remember paying 75 for draft box. Its gradually gone way too much for me to purchase the product.
i remember when all you could buy were draft boxes. thw rest were boxes of tournament packs or precons. im probably dating myself.
20 ways to see bots buying out the SL, then trying to resell overpriced cards then dropping price cause no one is buying that BS, just like Marvel prices are dropping
Ooof, what a letdown. No surprise with that "shrinkflation", however they try to justify it - it is to cut costs and trim down packaging per booster box obviously.
I got 3 of the 4 previous SLD commander decks (Heads I win, Cats/Dogs, Cute/Brute; missing the Angels one) but checking that new "20 ways" it just feels even more random and incoherent. Just take all playable cards that say "you win the game" they can reprint and shove them into a "deck". Rather lazy! Well, I guess that makes it an easy pass!
Between universes beyond and the terrible sets of late i have never purchased less sealed product.
Proxies and cheap singles and the occasional commander deck until things change.
Things will change.... For the worse. It reliably always does with mtg. Might as well just proxy and start saving some bucks.
Yes, I hear what you are saying...I would buy sealed product for every standard set. BUT since the play boosters began 2024 has been the smallest amount of packs i've bought in a year. 2025 will be even lighter as far as what I want to buy due to all the U/B products.
Switching to 36 was not a nod to draft.. it was a way to soften the change to play boosters which are 95% draft boosters but with the price of set ... but I think the idea was always to drop back. the set booster boxes sold fine because they had much better content .. play boosters do not have it
I feel like they curated this decklist for maximum scalping profits than actual playability. I can see some cards I want, but would never play this trash heap as built.
It seems fine, this is one of the times i think its okay but being exaggerated as bad. Most of them are 2 card win combos and will work fine in casual pods.
@@NineBreakertwo its a bunch of random win condition with 0 synergy whatsoever. The only synergistic one is the maze's end
The only way I could think of to see "20 Ways to Win" working is if you play it as a noob trap and distract your opponents with the fake wincons long enough to get the real one going.
The reminder text for Eggnogger's 'Stache exclaiming things was a bit goofy.
I actually forgot Loot was even a thing, in part because I stopped playing MtG before Thunder Junction and the "Space baby" reveal that ... they never tried to make any sense out of that, did they?
The amount of adjustments WotC makes to their products is just insane. Idk how people keep up with them lol. It feels so reactionary instead of planned.
Yeah it's funny how people think they can't correct course quickly bc everything is already set in stone years in advance. But all their choices feel rushed and reactionary already why can't they do the same thing only in a positive direction?
It makes perfect sense when you realize that both WoTC and Hasbro are rapidly bleeding out and struggle for survival. The thing is that they are kind of like animal in a snare - the more they struggle, the more messed up is their situation. I don't see them surviving for long with the way how they are acting.
@@mix-n-match834 How are they bleeding out?
Having a Gates package used to be a terrible idea, but they remembered to include both the “Thriving” Gates (one color base, pick a second color when it enters) AND the colorless/rainbow Gates (Baulder’s, Gateway Plaza, Gond, Heap), meaning they remembered all the synergistic and good Gate Lands and even Circuitous Route, one of the ramp spells that can get Gates. So you can actually meaningfully use the gates and even have them come in untapped if you do it right. I’ll even forgive not having the MH3 Gate due to how recent that is. But they didn’t include Basilisk, which could actually act as a payoff by buffing for Commander Damage or one of the lifegain effects, or The Black Gate, or any of of the other Gate searching cards or payoffs? Feels as weird as the decision of going for the “20 win cons” meme when a few strategic swaps could have solidified the ability of the deck to actually win unexpectedly. There are definitely some sneaky surprises in there…Maskwood Nexus turns on Liliana’s Contract, for example. I guess they wanted to make it feel janky but easy to upgrade? Like I can definitely see how a few minor changes could make this deck fast enough for current Commander, but honestly it really boils down to “better ramp package” and shifting the focus away from Enchantments just a little bit.
Can’t help but notice how weird the non-gates lands are too…feels like they could have easily won over players by having more of the bond/crowd lands instead of going into the weeds for filter and tap lands that are specifically Green/White. Guess I won’t complain about the World Tree, it’s really there for the Chromatic Lantern effect and surprise interaction with Maskwood Nexus again and not actually being a Gods deck.
I dunno. I want to like it, but it feels very obvious that both the actual power level / synergy of the deck and the secondary market value of the reprints were throttled to a very specific spot to avoid giving us too good or valuable of a deck.
So glad I transitioned to 100% proxies. This is just insane.
Incredible investment as well
I don't see why WoTC would be hesitant to put much value into the Secret Lair precon now that they are limited production and will be producing less of them than before.
With all the lack of synergy and minimalist ways to win, it would have been hilarious if they included Battle of Wits.
Glad I quit buying new mtg cards. Only buy vintage or singles after they've dropped in price
Yeah I only do stuff with older cards the way stuff is going now is just ridiculous
It's literally Shrinkflation
100%
So was reducing the rate of rares in playboosters
The box is going down in packs but isn't the MSRP higher than a box costs right now?
Yes, also foundations packs are really fuckin light on rares. Brothers war setboosters might be the peak of mtg packs
My favourite game and I love to play and usually buy at least 10 boxes a year, but have not bought a box in 12 months and do not intend to buy any in the future
Just wait until WOTC sells their product straight to consumer. 🎉
Oh goodie 😃
Amazon?
@@DrizztFan23 No. Direct to consumer. We would be able to order a bundle or box or whatever from wizards.
They do already with singles. It's called secret lairs
Yeah that would be weird if an irrelevant game like Pokemon sold their product direct. People would definitely hate that and it would never work because its stupid.
I feel like the "20 Ways to Win" "deck" is not really meant to be a playable deck. It is a meme full of memes, stacked on memes, next to a plate full of memes.
That being said, the deck contains a bunch of fun against-the-odds style build-arounds, many of which have some kind of nifty looking new art. Personally, I love to build decks around janky-ass jank, and I am kind of looking forward to this random pile of cards. On Arena, I have a Maze's End deck that I've been playing in historic for a while (and now have a standard version of the deck, since it is back), I have a red-control Millennium Calendar deck that I love, and a super-janky Mutavault / Book of Exalted Deeds deck that hopes to win with Approach of the Second Sun or Axis of Mortality. I've even built the Millennium Calendar deck in paper (I like it that much).
I'm not really trying to yum your yuck, but I absolutely see the appeal of this drop. I am 100% down for it, mostly so that I can dismantle it for parts (I've been wanting to build a Maze's End commander deck, so this may be the kick in the pants I need, since it looks like about a quarter the deck is already there).
I think this is the 5th Commander deck. Heads I Win, Tales You Lose; Cute to Brute, Cats and Dogs, Angels, and then this one. I'd also point out the last Commander Deck has now more than doubled in value in a year.
Just a reminder, most printers work with cardstock
Nah, they’re going to drop to 30 packs and leave the price the same. They know players wouldn’t accept a 15% increase (6 packs of 36) so just cut the amount of packs. Straight greed
another thing i don't like about the secret lair deck is "shrine" is not a creature type. there's not actually any ways in the deck to make shrine tokens outside of go-shintai entering itself.
Thanks wizards for curing me of mtg addiction
Last week the manager of my LGS tells me they're organizing this $1,000 Standard RCQ (this is the first time we've had an RCQ for Standard in ages). Sweet. Later I see the announcement posted on Facebook, and I notice the two cards on the banner image thing are SLD cards that are.. not legal in Standard. Mayhem Devil and Force of Despair. I figured one of the "Pokemon Guys" who work there made the ad and just didn't know better, so I texted my friend about it. Nope. It's not two random SLD cards slapped together in Photoshop by Pokemon Guys who don't know better. Those are the RCQ Promos. He sent me a screenshot of the WPN email to the store announcing it. So yeah the official event promos for the STANDARD FORMAT RCQs from now until March around here (everywhere?) are cards NOT legal to play in Standard Format. Is that normal and I'm just that out of the loop, or does that just make no damn sense?
Bro wtf they already shrinkflated the fuck out of my set boosters by taking the damm rares out in the playboosters and now we get FEWER PACKS A BOX WTF
Yeah, no. I'm good living in the past and all of my older cards, making commanders out of them is fine for me, have given up on sealed product since bloomburrow hit and it is just getting worse.
Black Friday this year had reductions across the board that only removed delivery cost of 4-5 euro.
It's the beginning of the end.
Oh I REMEMBER the coin flip deck! I bought it when it came out. The coin didn't break on me, but I do remember it flying into my buddy's drink when I flipped it. Still surprised it didn't break!
I mean, Maskwood Nexus makes ALL your creatures Demons. You don't just need to wait until you crank out three Shapeshifter tokens.
You remember Oukun, I always forget him and remember Z'n'dr'splt.
I never buy booster boxes or booster packs anymore I just buy singles of whatever I need for my decks
How about not messing with 15 cards per pack 36 packs per box,and instead just make good well tested sets?
we can obviously tell where their priorities are because it isnt the game anymore. just looking to milk out what they can from remaining players, and new arena players. company is complete garbage.
After watching your recent video talking about how little they pay artists (and no more royalties), I finally uninstalled Arena. Already had moved away from historic and brawl bc of alchemy. But was always upset that I'd have to exclude a bunch of cards to play explorer. Had eventually found myself mostly drafting - only played regular games to occasionally climb the ranks or do my dailies.
They've ruined commander, they've ruined arena, they've abandoned the mtg lore, aren't paying artists. You also mentioned in that previous video that they fired all those people last Christmas time. Just yeah. There's nothing to support left here. Not until they course correct in a major way and for a long time.
Sorry that's so long and somewhat incoherent. It's just a sad state because I LOVE magic. Hoping the mtg community learns from the DnD community to support artists and other creators. They've forced wotc to reverse some horrific decisions by unsubscribing from their services and unanimously saying hey wotc WE HAVE THE BOOKS we don't need you. Same with magic. They've already printed tons of sets for us to build decks from, we don't need wotc anymore.
Incoming Coalition Victory unban.
In some regard, what WotC is doing is almost funny. I've really wanted to purchase and open my first booster box after probably 15 years. Then, after watching several people open Foundations Booster Boxes I was like '...wtf!? I would be so pissed after paying that amount of money and then getting only...THAT.' on literally every box opened I've seen. So that desire already died. Then the weird SL Commander Deck which will still be sold out after 10 minutes. I mean it kinda is our own fault that WotC keeps spitting us in the face. If we customers as a whole keep supporting that bullshit it will only become worse and worse. With every set they make an announcement that makes life worse for us.
Yeah, I splurged and picked up a Bundle….opened it and had that “Ah, yes, that is why I don’t buy sealed anymore” feeling.
@@registereduser Very sorry to hear that. I kinda feel like that Foundations is even worse when it comes to that. Not that many cards to be very happy about if you hit them in a Booster.
@@style0vertalent191 buying sealed has never been a good idea, value wise, but now it’s not even worth that “opening packs” feeling, when most rares are .50 cents you can get pretty much most cards you’d want for a booster box/bundle price.
@@registereduser That's true. And the constant decline of the product and it's contents itself doesn't help with that either. Also, I don't know about the quality of the Foils in the Boosters but the quality of the foiled cards in the Starter Collection is, once again, abysmal. Didn't take them more than ~3 days to take the shape of a Pringles chip. I'm even having a hard time shuffling my deck without actually feeling the position of a foiled card despite being sleeved. And I'm not even getting started on the horrible card quality of the 3 Boosters that were part of that box. They feel and smell like the Commander Starter Decks. I had to double-sleeve the 2 Commander Starters I've purchased back then because the smell is unbearable to me. Like some old table fireworks from the 80's and 90's. There is some kind of powder on the cards, too, that even rubs off and then your hands and sleeves smell the same. Annoying, disappointing. Like that, a set that should say 'Welcome New Players!' basically ends up saying 'F*ck You and take a look at how we want to rip you off in the future!'. Meh...
@ I hate the “guaranteed foil” in the one pack and how many are in the collector boosters. If I get a foil, I cross my fingers it’s not a money card because with the curling it’s essentially worthless. Back in the day (I’ll just ballpark it at Invasion block, because I’ve been playing for a long time), opening a foil, even a common sometimes, was exciting.
I have a Phyrexian Arena foil and Ice Cave foil from that era that survived in an Ultra Pro page until now without curling. Including years when the binder was in a box in a basement forever.
They were “built different” than today’s foils.
I didn’t get any of the starter commander decks, but that’s less than stellar info. Good job WoTC.
I got some cards I’ll slot in decks in my boosters, don’t get me wrong…but I paid a bunch of “extra” to scratch the pack cracking, gambling itch. “You can open as many as X rares!”….Iknow the odds are ever not in your favor, but in practice I usually get the one and feel shafted sometimes on uncommons to go with it.
I could never buy another card and make a million new decks with the collection I’ve built up, so there’s that I suppose.
I feel like redundant win cons is fine. If you get close to fifty and it gets exiled and then later you draw the forty win con it's just a backup. I see no problem with this.
Hey man.....that golden goose isn't going to strangle itself.
When I was a teen, a booster box or starter box cost ~$150 in Australia (less for expansions like Legends, Homelands etc). Now they're around $250 to $275 for a booster box (~$400 to 500 for a Collector box). If they hit 300 for a box with less cards in worse-feeling packs, I'll be done buying anything other than singles.
you can make Liliana's contract work making use of the various enchantments and the artifact that lets you effectively make your creatures become changlings and i would use the two equipment that makes the equipped creature any creature type and i would run the Sliver Hivelord as the commander, even if it was the only "sliver" in the entire deck.
There's a neat thing you can do with Felidar Soveriegn, but you need Dark Ritual, Animate Dead/Dance of the Dead, and Entomb.
i love the idea of what this deck wants to do, but it feels like if they don't already have Thassa's Oracle in there, it should be and with Tainted Pact and Demonic Consultation. And NONE of these cards are particularly expensive.
There are easy ways they could fix the mana problem, there are several cards like Spelunking, Tiller Machine, and Amulet of Vigor. And i'd assume they'd just not put in Amulet of Vigor because now it's close to that "expensive" card situation.
Other than that, there's a load of cheap tutor spells they could put in the deck including Rune Scarred Demon.
Dude, they're trolling you so hard with Loot going and getting a Mug rootbeer to combine your personal hells.
They're trying so hard to make Loot a thing. I wish they would just forget about this bad attempt at toy marketing.
"Stop trying to make Loot a thing. He's never going to be a thing."
In fairness, my buddy has a Mono Green Loot deck that’s absolutely killer.
I did like a lot of the Green Foundations creatures. Eagerly awaiting my 2.50$-3$ Bootleg Scythecat Cub.
Just got a foil etched Cyclonic Rift, extended Spring Three Tree City, Bloomburrow Sword of Feast and Famine, borderless Clever Concealment, borderless Ohran Frostfang, MH3 Wooded Foothills, Windswept Heath, borderless Temple Garden and Stomping Ground, foil etched Avacyn, AoH, and a borderless Prismatic Vista
30$ + 3.99$ shipping.
@@Shawn-f3x You're saying you got all that for $30? That's literally impossible. Prismatic Vista alone is 29 euro on CardMarket.
20 ways to win secret lair: I thought this is a salt deck?! I guess it's supposed to be a comedy deck and everyone's supposed to laugh at the way you try to win in so many silly ways. In reality, won't everybody be mad at you for winning with these novelty gags?
The only thing that hooked me was the cutesy artwork that they posted on the secret lair website.
I think the price of $145 is outrageously high for this deck. True, I paid scalpers on eBay to get four of the five Marvel secret drop sets, so I think I'll just take that $145 and keep buying Singletons to complete building my superhero decks to my satisfaction.
Dude, your hate of Loot is too forced, we know the 2 of you love each other. Embrace your inner Loot!
Cards that say "you win" on them shouldn't even exist. That isn't just my opinion... RG, Rosewater, Gavin, and other designers at WOTC have said the same. So why do they keep printing them?
Ppl change their minds
Down at Hasbro-WoTC:
Executive: Pinkertons got to eat. Hike the prices, Ned!
Employee: Uh, boss, we made Ned redundant last week...
Executive: Oh fine, Phil, you hike them.
Employee: Phil we made redundant last year....
Executive: huh? I forgot we got rid of Phil, I was his best man too. Hmmm, Who are you then?
Employee: I'm Bif, the Pinkerton, finance specialist, AI art lead, the entire eco department, and Human Resources.
Executive:....whatever, Hike the prices by noon or your fired!
Set boosters were the worst thing to happen to mtg.
Every month wotc makes proxies more and more attractive
I imagine well be paying the same.price or more for less packs. We're already getting screwed with less rares in the play pack. Pretty soon it's all gonna be $10 value packs smh
Yup foundations packs are really LIGHT on the rares. Trash packs.
i switched primaryly to building LEGO now. i play Standard, and buy the cards i need for my 2 or 3 meta decks, but i dont draft anymore and i dont even go to prereleases anymore.... mtg is getting to expensive and i am single and in middle class but now...
Honestly I think they wanted to make a Secret Lair with the 20 wincon cards and the Commander staples, but then they figured out if they're already making a 25~ cards Secret Lair they might as well make it into a Commander Deck and charge more.
Okruam.AND zndyrsplit was the first SL deck. Then angels. Then cats and dogs. Angels slipped right under everybody's radar as far as I noticed, but this will be the FOURTH secret lair dexk
Cute to Brute flip-card pile
@laneyarcade touche. I only remembered the ones I tried for. Thanks for the correction
They already shrunk booster boxes when they ended 15 card Draft Boosters packs and made 14 card Play Boosters. Looks like they are trying to pass on mismanagement costs to customers.
This should be illegal, increasing the size and price and then afterwards reducing the size but not reducing the prize to try to sneakily increase prices. Absolutely disgusting malpractice.
You gotta look at the secret lair deck like this: "Hey we cant just make a whole new set to give you all the win condition cards, nor would it be big enough--so here's all the cards. But we are selling it with extra cards for you to make it a whole deck. Pretty sneaky cool huh?"
It's not to be a good deck but just to get all those win cons in your hand in one lump purchase.
the secret lair deck is not meant to be a competitive deck .. it is a secret lair it is about collecting and they just wanted to have fun with it
12:01
Lili’s contract is 4 demons with different names, so that wouldn’t work. Right?
where is this deck at?
The 20 different ways to win deck is played on this week's episode on elder dragon highjinks
I have a deck that wins with Maze’s End but it’s a simic land deck that has two or three ways to win. Not twenty. I have a superfriends deck that has around twenty ways to win technically, just diff combos of walkers to do a few different win cons.
Question is 2hats the bonus card going to be? A secret 21st way to win card?
The only thing that would make this deck feasible would be every tutor ever
Unless you play limited, there is absolutey zero value in buying a box. 90% of the time you’ll only get your money back on cards you dont necessarily want.
How am i supposed to draft. The number of packs abd the number of cards in the packs are all wrong
if you count the Meld Angel deck and the raining cats and dogs one, i think that would make this the 4th secret lair commander deck
1-offs that you can win with another card: that's called a combo.
Surprised they didn't throw Hedron Alignment in there for the ultimate waste of a slot in the 99.
i think this Commander deck is something to buy a few of and store away. It wouldn't take much for any one of these instant win cards to become incredibly broken and shoot up in value based on future combo possibilities.
It sounds like the Secret Lairs Commander deck is meant to be stripped for parts.
while i agree that the aetherdrift box having less packs is bad but hopefully the msrp is lower than the 36 pack boxes but for the secret lair deck i just see it as a fun deck with that yes will be eventualy scrapped for parts but its not like that's inherently a bad thing though, and as far as the eggnoggers stache its an acorn card man WHY would you ever look at it for is strategic viability like seriously man that make no sense and hey man if you dont like loot thats fine but dont act like thats not the only bad thing about this card dude.
I have been just buying a few singles for commander with each new for years now, as it is the only format I still play. I refuse to spend more on a company that keeps increasing price of cardboard. Seriously, how inept you have to be to already have such prices and still think you're not earning enough, it just means internal costs are bloated (or that Hasbro orders you to milk consumers because they are inept as a company, not sure which is worse).
There's no way you just seriously critiqued the playability of a holiday promo card. The level of "whiny baby" during the segment on the secret lair was pretty cringe-worthy too.
404 error on your LBD deck box affiliate link
Don't mean to be critical or to overcorrect you but technically yes 10 cuz after May's activates on the 9th time nasal go to hand and you'll have 10 lands for the wind condition on field
"Eldraine Spice Blend"? That's definitely drugs. That's why there's no booze in the nog.
Wizards got too greedy and alienated enfranchaised standard players by making tons of changes that their customer base has been complaining about for the last 8 years. Instead they've doubled down on commander, an eternal format. It's not a big surprise product is not moving as well as it used to when draft and standard (a rotating format) were the formats their customers supported.
Happy Birthday Buddy!
This is the 4th commander deck secret lair. The first was the coin flip, then the angels, and then the cats and dogs deck. Out of all of the secret lair commander decks though, this one is easily the worst
You missed cute to brute. It was a five color two sided cards. Not very strong but it was interesting. The nicol bolas is cute too.
I have a feeling the price is going to stay the same after the pack reduction
So basically people are really only buying Collectors boxes… which means people prefer collecting or blinged-out commander decks instead of playing/standard….
I have been saying this forever maskwood Nexus and inspiring statuary are under the radar, overlooked cards. That have huge benefits for some decks.
So I read that they are finally using msrp on commander decks so they will be a set price starting next year any truth to this and if so they will probably lower the power levels in the precons idk 🤷♂️
Good video, delivered the facts without all the extra excitement and negativity.
Yet another example of Wizards going CHEAP! 30 packs in a box which is close to a 18% decrease. This is terrible plus there will be several more price increases in 2025. I will not be buying any Play Booster boxes in 2025 unless I can get them for $100.00 a box which is a pipe dream. Wizards made this special Holiday Loot just for you! 🤣Thank you for the video Magic Historian.
Less than a year and they’re going back on the packs, their greed is insane
Sticking to arena. But pissed they are making commander and mort likely not letting us convert our cards over.
It's a shame. Nice sets coming, and my urge to participate is dwindling. I might catch a pre release or something for fun, but I dunno about collecting anymore.
I'm not very price sensitive, I understand how inflation works and my salary gets corrected accordingly so I'm fine with a price increase.. The bigger issue however is that they've been releasing sets that just aren't very interesting (to me, like Duskmourn, Karlov, Outlaws, Foundations) . Aetherdrift sounds like one which I don't really care about (as I think vehicles are not interesting). And this means I simply don't buy a box and that'll cost Wotc more than the price increase
Never bought a box in my life.
The 20 Ways to Win Secret Lair is meant for you to take it apart and make 20 different decks. 😂
sold it all for proxies for this and many reasons recently, never going back i can play free on pc and cheap in person with friends via proxy
😢smh I miss you WOTC.... no not you now under the thumb of Hasbro, a shadow of the wizards you once were.