Is it Worth It To Buy "20 Ways To Win" | A New Secret Lair Commander Deck for Magic: The Gathering

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  • Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
  • I am giving away Secret Lair Commander decks plus classic Commander precons on Whatnot this December 5 at 12:00pm Pacific! Get $15 credit to spend when you create a new account using my code at www.whatnot.co... and join me for the Tolarian Community College Winter Commander Precon Giveaway!
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 775

  • @TolarianCommunityCollege
    @TolarianCommunityCollege  2 місяці тому +59

    I am giving away Secret Lair Commander decks plus classic Commander precons on Whatnot this December 5 at 12:00pm Pacific! Get $15 credit to spend when you create a new account using my code at www.whatnot.com/invite/tolariancollege and join me for the Tolarian Community College Winter Commander Precon Giveaway!

    • @WindchaserX
      @WindchaserX 2 місяці тому +1

      You're missing Angels deck when talking about the price comparison.

    • @DylanYu-v9y
      @DylanYu-v9y 2 місяці тому

      Professor. Can you create a video on how to upgrade this terrible precon for battle. I want to have something to bring to the commander table.

    • @vollmagnet
      @vollmagnet 2 місяці тому

      Not sure it works "all over the world", I wasn't able to enter the giveaways (or buy something) out of Europe several times. Haven't tried for some time, though

    • @andrewmcmurray9580
      @andrewmcmurray9580 2 місяці тому

      I got to the ad for this in the video literally 5 minutes before the whatnot stream airs. It is meant to be.

  • @Rsma77
    @Rsma77 2 місяці тому +913

    Wizard's really didn't want to give us a Thassa's Oracle reprint huh?

    • @peeporiot9948
      @peeporiot9948 2 місяці тому +46

      I understand the gripe but Thassa's oracle in this deck makes no sense; especially when it's aimed at a casual table

    • @moomoocat2708
      @moomoocat2708 2 місяці тому +91

      @@peeporiot9948 i mean if they dont have a way of emptying their deck thoracle isnt really that big of an issue

    • @bradensorensen966
      @bradensorensen966 2 місяці тому +31

      Let’s be honest. That would make this deck-which is already horrendous-even more terrible.

    • @peeporiot9948
      @peeporiot9948 2 місяці тому +13

      ​@@moomoocat2708 The counter I'd give to that's is when is Thassa's Oracle ever played in any deck that's not running an infinite? Again I get why people are upset but if you want to keep policing Oracle to only be in high powered pods you don't put it in a Jank deck like this 😂

    • @xopher314
      @xopher314 2 місяці тому +1

      It got reprinted in Mystery Booster 2. I pulled four of them.

  • @Aerix
    @Aerix 2 місяці тому +537

    The decklist looks so scatterbrained and unfocused.
    Art is lovely.

    • @TheTrueFool
      @TheTrueFool 2 місяці тому +5

      I'm trying to figure out if this or the 'Cute or Brute' deck is less cohesive.

    • @sailordaigurren8225
      @sailordaigurren8225 2 місяці тому +5

      I don't even particularly like the art, tbh

    • @drguthrie7621
      @drguthrie7621 2 місяці тому +13

      The art is good but it isn't even applied to all the wincon cards so this just doesn't even feel worth it for the art, I honestly wish it was a shrines deck with special shrine art

    • @Vanity0666
      @Vanity0666 2 місяці тому +3

      The mana base is disgusting

    • @TrevHolland
      @TrevHolland 2 місяці тому +5

      Feels like they want even the pilot of the deck to be surprised when they win!

  • @Gimosknight
    @Gimosknight 2 місяці тому +172

    It honestly seems like a regular secret lair but then they realized they could throw in an additional 90 cards without special art and sell it for much more money.

    • @Iwatoda_Dorm
      @Iwatoda_Dorm 2 місяці тому +9

      I honestly want the cards more than the precon, sucks they don’t have that option.

    • @Gimosknight
      @Gimosknight 2 місяці тому

      @@Iwatoda_Dorm Agreed.

    • @chuckgreen6386
      @chuckgreen6386 2 місяці тому +2

      I feel like this is similar to that double sided deck they did. Just kind of found a some what similar theme and just grabbed a bunch of randoms in it to make a deck

    • @postalizeMike
      @postalizeMike Місяць тому

      I actually can't wait to play mine in the mirror match

    • @EyeOfArcadia
      @EyeOfArcadia Місяць тому +1

      Don't the singles cost more than the deck itself? So buying at 150 is decent just for that sake

  • @mikeharter5195
    @mikeharter5195 2 місяці тому +94

    I have never wanted something and not wanted something so bad at the same time

  • @theasternaut
    @theasternaut 2 місяці тому +231

    Because so many people have also agreed that the 20 Way to Win deck is just a pile of cards, I think it won't sell out for a week or more.

    • @kozad86
      @kozad86 2 місяці тому +34

      Which makes it all the weirder that this was designed and play tested for over a year by one of the lead designers at wotc.

    • @pug8714
      @pug8714 2 місяці тому +3

      it'll sell out immediately anyway

    • @MrNbkelly
      @MrNbkelly 2 місяці тому +29

      @@pug8714 and yet it's not sold out yet

    • @praisetherok3299
      @praisetherok3299 2 місяці тому +16

      @@pug8714 Its not even on low Stock

    • @pug8714
      @pug8714 2 місяці тому +5

      I was proven wrong it seems. I'm surprised scalpers didn't rush it

  • @jonharvey6823
    @jonharvey6823 2 місяці тому +261

    @15:56 Rite of Replication on Taurean Mauler does not win with Liliana's Contract. They need to have different names.

    • @kylesmith7413
      @kylesmith7413 2 місяці тому +37

      Correct, you need EXACTLY Maskwood Nexus, I believe.

    • @guyvascm
      @guyvascm 2 місяці тому +7

      ​@kylesmith7413 yeah Maskwood Nexus is the only way to get demons in the deck

    • @JohnSmith-vk9ds
      @JohnSmith-vk9ds 2 місяці тому +2

      Yup. Rite of Replication is in there for the Biovisionary win condition.

    • @Blumblum5
      @Blumblum5 Місяць тому

      I think that of I were to replace some of the win conditions biodivisinary and Liliana’s contract would defiantly be on that list. There to specific only letting me win if I have a specific card

  • @welcomethrillho9724
    @welcomethrillho9724 2 місяці тому +195

    Only just getting into Magic, this channel is really helping.

    • @alchemist743
      @alchemist743 2 місяці тому +10

      Yah, Prof. has helped me a lot, and his discord community has been so nice when I play commander

    • @chefnelsonsbbq
      @chefnelsonsbbq 2 місяці тому +2

      Welcome to the club. Most of secret lair is just a money grab so unless you REALLY like the art, you can skip most of their drops.

    • @bradychurchill3672
      @bradychurchill3672 2 місяці тому +1

      Welcome to the game!! This channel is a hella good resource for new players as it’s the channel I found first when I got into magic

    • @l337dta
      @l337dta 2 місяці тому +1

      @@chefnelsonsbbq the pixel art set was too good to pass up :P

    • @grenadesonfire
      @grenadesonfire 2 місяці тому +2

      Enjoy the ride and hope you find a solid group to play with regularly!

  • @spic9h592
    @spic9h592 2 місяці тому +183

    Kinda feels like this was originally a tanuki trickster drop with the 10 cards that Hasbro decided would sell more as a commander deck ( our market research shows... yadda yadda yadda...holiday sales....yadda yadda yadda...pasr performsnce of decks...). So R&D had to slap together a theme to go with the cards they already commisioned art for, which could explain the scattershot nature of this drop.

    • @xChikyx
      @xChikyx 2 місяці тому +6

      not surprised... less effort and higher cost is the staple of Wizards modus operandi

    • @Automaconfuso
      @Automaconfuso 2 місяці тому +14

      The designer of the deck (can't remember his name) actually said he's been working on this project for a year in a Commander at home episode

    • @cooltiger2439
      @cooltiger2439 2 місяці тому +4

      Knowing wizards it was probably an animal crossing beyound deck featuring Tom Nook but Nintendo didn't take the offer

    • @Bleuchz
      @Bleuchz 2 місяці тому

      @@xChikyx I'd like to hear your rationale on how designing the entire deck was less effort than a 10 card SL drop.

    • @postalizeMike
      @postalizeMike Місяць тому

      It's completely on theme if the inspiration was a trickster character! Because he built the deck to trick the person playing it!

  • @arcbinder
    @arcbinder 2 місяці тому +12

    I just got mine delivered and it comes with a little card with the 20 ways to win (printed as a checklist on the traditionally blank side of the "thank you for being part of secret lair" card). So the official 20 ways are:
    1. "Forgot Your Sunscreen" - Win using Approach of the Second Sun
    2. "Barbershop Quartet" - Win using Biovisionary
    3. "Here, Kitty Kitty" - Win using Felidar Sovereign
    4. "Splish, splash" - Win using Halo Fountain
    5. "Storybook Ending" - Win using Happily Ever After
    6. "Tower of power" - Win using Helix Pinnacle
    7. "Bull in a China Shop" - Win using Hellkite Tyrant
    8. "Notarized" - Win using Liliana's Contract
    9. "Face the Music" - Win using Mayael's Aria
    10. "Gatecrasher" - Win using Maze's End
    11. "Eighth wonder" - Win using Mechanised Production
    12. "A Penny Saved..." - Win using Revel in Riches
    13. "Counter-Punch" - Win using Simic Ascendency
    14. "Go the Distance" - Win using Test of Endurance
    15. "Baker's Dozen" - Win using Triskaidekaphile
    16. "Ribbit" - Win using Twenty-Toed Toad (20 cards in hand)
    17. "Ribbit 2: The Ribbiting" - Win using Twenty-Toed Toad (20 counters)
    18. "If You Want a Job Done Right..." - Win by dealing 21 Commander Damage to last opponent
    19. "Ol' Reliable" - Win by reducing last opponent's life total to 0
    20. "The Library is Closed" - Win when last opponent attempts to draw from and empty library

  • @michaelmattox5454
    @michaelmattox5454 2 місяці тому +53

    Watched it in action on Elder Dragon Hijinks and I think it performs better than you expect. As anyone who plays casual commander knows, being unassuming and not much of a threat is a good way to survive to late game, which is where you are more likely to pull out one of these wincons. It’s also kind of silly to see people theorizing that it was just thrown together, this is a pet deck of Daniel Holt who has been piloting variations of this deck for years.

    • @Ryan-hr2jj
      @Ryan-hr2jj 2 місяці тому +7

      Underrated comment

    • @kyonizuka
      @kyonizuka 2 місяці тому +6

      problem being, even though being unassuming can help you last longer the deck doesnt functionally prevent the other 3 players from winning. so even at a casual commander level the table very well could lose long before you get you jank win to go off. especially in a precon format because precons dont run much interaction so you cant even count on your opponents to prevent each other from winning

    • @Ryan-hr2jj
      @Ryan-hr2jj 2 місяці тому +2

      @@kyonizuka am I wrong in thinking the best way to prevent someone else winning is to simply win yourself? Not every deck is going to sweat it out for a world title. In the right hands , just like any other deck, it feels like this could be a fun, dynamic stack of cardboard

    • @ecoKady
      @ecoKady 2 місяці тому +2

      Thanks for pointing out it's his deck. It felt a bit like a real deck where the designer had to cut corners for the sake of card value. Seems like that is pretty likely what happened here.
      More than anything this play possum style is not my style. I like feeling like I've built up and "earned" my wins, not just waiting 7 turns until my opponents are out of answers and I can sneak a wincon onto the battlefield.

    • @captianbacon
      @captianbacon 2 місяці тому

      The only way I see actually winning with this deck is makes end or felidar sovereign opening hand.

  • @davedussault8324
    @davedussault8324 2 місяці тому +33

    This is a perfect deck for hanging out with friends who happen to be playing EDH. Its the most casual of casual decks, and sometimes thats okay. Maybe not for $150 though.

    • @chibiacer
      @chibiacer 2 місяці тому +3

      Is it? Even for a casual deck, it has too many win condition options and no synergy for its own good. Even a novice can probably throw together a stronger deck, or at least one that's more fun to play.
      Maybe you could chop it into 4 pieces and build decks around each piece, but I wouldn't want to play it as-is, even with friends.

    • @charliemarlow647
      @charliemarlow647 2 місяці тому

      I agree with your general sentiment, but can't say I agree that this deck is even suited for a very casual setting. Even the very first commander precons would be far too much for this deck to handle, let alone the precons of today, or even people's "janky, super casual" home brews.
      The total lack of cohesion and awkward, niche, unintuitive aspects (e.g. Path of Ancestry never being able to scry, even when casting your commander) make this, in my opinion, not an enjoyable experience to play at all. You essentially rely on chance for the right combination of specific cards to line up for you, with barely any agency in dictating that.

  • @DemonaruMusic
    @DemonaruMusic 2 місяці тому +93

    Wanted to give some corrections of The Prof's misunderstandings on several cards in the deck, not grief, just reading the cards, I do agree that the deck plays like a garbage fire. Love ya prof

    • @maxbodifee3263
      @maxbodifee3263 2 місяці тому

      Reading the card..

    • @AmellsGrace
      @AmellsGrace 2 місяці тому

      I've got a stupid fun modern legal deck that rocks maskwood and nexus. Both thrilled and bummed to see it here qq

  • @arcbinder
    @arcbinder 2 місяці тому +82

    15:19 Thankfully, it's an end step trigger not an upkeep trigger, so you don't have to wait for each of your opponents to have a turn, but it's still a bit of a long shot.
    The deck also contains Path of Ancestry with a commander that has no creature types, so it's really just a cheap 5 color tapped land.
    I have bought one because I do like the art and I own the other 4, so I'll have it for completeness, but I'm not overly enthused by the deck list.

    • @Xevo79
      @Xevo79 2 місяці тому

      Was going to call this out too.

    • @Volkbrecht
      @Volkbrecht 2 місяці тому

      I run Biovisionary in a somewhat controlly Simic deck and I'm honestly surprised how reliably it works. Copy spells and effects have become a lot cheaper and more versatile over the years, and then there is the populate mechanic which is stitched onto some usable spells. So you have a lot of cards that are not just waiting around on your hand to copy the one wincon.

    • @m1gr3nA
      @m1gr3nA 2 місяці тому +1

      ​@@Volkbrechtbut you actually run cards with the intention of reliably copying biovisionary. it's not very good win condition but it will work if you build your deck correctly... but not in this pile

    • @arcbinder
      @arcbinder 2 місяці тому

      @@m1gr3nA Exactly so. It's not a terrible card, but in this deck it requires you to have biovisionary stick and then a single very specific sorcery resolve and the tokens stay around until end step. There's not even any cards in the deck helping you defend it.
      Much like liliana's contract wouldn't be awful in a demons deck, but in this you are required to have liliana's contract and maskwood nexus, plus a board of creatures and the only real defense you have to make it stick is clever concealment to keep them phased out until your next turn.

    • @m1gr3nA
      @m1gr3nA 2 місяці тому

      @@arcbinder i would expect removal targeted at original biovisionary in response to replication rather than let it resolve and deal with more of them afterwards. it's safer. :)
      there is a few ways to protect/recur the combo but again they are not good ones except last one: alseid, shalai/ascendancy (i mean if someone tried to bolt it...), sun titan, ultimatum, concealment. no progenitor mimic and other clones, no silence or veil effects. no graveyard recursion. no counterspels. awful.
      poor tanukis. they deserved better deck.

  • @Beebe3721
    @Beebe3721 2 місяці тому +8

    I liked the idea of a 20 ways to win commander deck. The $150 price point was a deal breaker.

  • @Charlesxo
    @Charlesxo 2 місяці тому +3

    Been watching for ages now, and I love that you're still here making content and still passionate about the game. Thanks for all the honest reviews you do and speaking your mind. Cheers to many more years of it as well.
    Happy Holidays. :D

  • @anubis1ra1
    @anubis1ra1 2 місяці тому +28

    The 20th way to win is not to pay for this deck

    • @wedgearyxsaber
      @wedgearyxsaber 2 місяці тому +1

      The 20th wincon is swapping to a deck with an actual wincon and strategy

  • @blarnglaibly9482
    @blarnglaibly9482 2 місяці тому +10

    the box juggle at 2:54 is mad impressive!

  • @retekretekretek
    @retekretekretek 2 місяці тому +185

    Short answer: no
    Long answer: noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    • @iitstre_4550
      @iitstre_4550 2 місяці тому +2

      Think you’re a few hundred “o”s short m8 😂😂

    • @72kyzero
      @72kyzero 2 місяці тому

      Thank u yatzeee

    • @PragmaticPsychiatry
      @PragmaticPsychiatry 2 місяці тому +1

      But isn't every secret lair deck now selling for nearly double it's original cost?

    • @zwair42069
      @zwair42069 2 місяці тому +1

      @@PragmaticPsychiatrybecause the other were bangers

    • @PragmaticPsychiatry
      @PragmaticPsychiatry 2 місяці тому

      @zwair42069 every single other deck was called a flavor and value fail too though lol

  • @loekey4145
    @loekey4145 27 днів тому +1

    Personally, I think this is my favorite of the secret lair commander decks released. One of the biggest reasons for that is one of the cards not actually part of the deck, and I don’t mean the secret card. Included in the deck is a card that lays out all 20 possible ways to win included in the deck, including special names and a checkbox for each of them. The way it is laid out almost shows them as achievements or challenges to achieve through playing the deck. It’s honestly one of the reasons I want to leave the deck unchanged so I can try to actually check off each of the win conditions. It makes me almost think of it to be less of just a precon deck, to be a celebration of these alternative win cons, and a challenge to see how many you could achieve with one deck. I do wish some of the more famous you win cards were included, rather than those that are nearly impossible to achieve, but I still really enjoy the deck. Also, the special secret card included (enduring ideal) is such an amazing include even if not in the 99. It is one of the cards I am probably putting in the deck after finishing a few more of the achievements.

  • @jessherselfable
    @jessherselfable 2 місяці тому +58

    This is the first secret lair I have purchased. I made myself wait a day instead of impulse buying and it was still there.
    It’s got everything I like to play - cute creatures, bullshit win cons, and the fact that it’s a mess to play with is pretty on brand for me.

    • @Iwatoda_Dorm
      @Iwatoda_Dorm 2 місяці тому +3

      Honestly saaaaame. I picked up miracle worker because of the fact that my win con is just having so much options to play and playing big cards. It just feels bad that this deck as a precon seemingly isn’t cohesive. But just like any precons, upgrade it a little and have even more fun! And I love the art so much! Hope you get enjoy it!

    • @HopeiThis
      @HopeiThis 2 місяці тому +1

      Same!! For the same reasons! I love playing precons and my favorite ones are always the terrible ones

  • @awesome123103
    @awesome123103 2 місяці тому +1

    I really love that every couple years when I've gotten back into magic youve been here to provide insight and advice 😊 love you channel, your work, and your candor. Thank you 😄

  • @Wonka9800
    @Wonka9800 2 місяці тому +247

    Commenting before watching,
    I have a feeling this is 100% no

    • @angelojohnson9441
      @angelojohnson9441 2 місяці тому +20

      Correct, commenting before watch is wrong.
      Since you owned up to it however, I excuse you for your poor form (this time).

    • @sparkierss3189
      @sparkierss3189 2 місяці тому

      @@angelojohnson9441hey shut up?

  • @LadyTsunade777
    @LadyTsunade777 2 місяці тому +17

    While _this_ decklist is very bad for an alt-win-con-tribal deck, there are a lot of cards here that are useful, not only in such a deck but in EDH in general.
    I'd say it _is_ a good start point, and can be upgraded to be a _functional_ alt-win-con-tribal deck somewhat easily.
    Also, the 5c Go-Shintai is the commander WotC chose because of its first ability to recur dead enchantments, since a majority of "you win the game" cards are enchantments.
    I do agree that there should've been strictly 20 or more cards with the words "you win the game", and not the cop-outs of commander damage, combat damage, or mill.
    I'm also a huge fan of WotC _finally_ using the Nyx frame on _all_ enchantments, and there's a _lot_ of enchantment reprints in this deck with that frame now.
    As for making a functional alt-win-con-tribal deck: there's 30 legal, possible "you win the game" cards for such a deck, though a few can be ruled out as requiring too much investment:
    Hedron Alignment and Battle of Wits don't work in EDH; Gallifrey Stands requires 13+ Doctors and Luck Bobblehead requires 7 Bobbleheads which would be a lot of deckspace for only one win-con each; Near-Death Experience, Barren Glory, and Azor's Elocutors are some of the hardest ones to meet, so can be excluded.
    Most of the rest can be built around in ways that the rest of the deck can work towards multiple at once, so that the non win-con cards are all versatile yet still individually strong.
    Even the "if you have 8 unlocked doors among Rooms you control" one works, since it only requires 4 total Room cards, and some Rooms are very strong and/or work towards other win-cons.
    I'd say Rukarumel or Marina Vendrell would be good commander options, other than Go-Shintai. Marina has card draw that also works with the heavy enchantment count, and Rukarumel works towards Liliana's Contract and even Gallifrey Stands.

    • @kozad86
      @kozad86 2 місяці тому +3

      5 color was probably the largest mistake of the entire deck. If they had focused it down to 2-3 colors, the deck would probably be much better.

    • @LadyTsunade777
      @LadyTsunade777 2 місяці тому +6

      @@kozad86 Trouble with cutting one or more colors is you start losing large numbers of "you win the game" cards and/or support cards that work towards the remaining ones you do have left.
      Alt-win-con tribal isn't meant to be cEDH. It's a deck that is very obviously not going to go off often, but is fun to play. It's like Chandra tribal in that way. People build it because it's a fun and unique build, not because it's going to win every game.

    • @tazsul1525
      @tazsul1525 2 місяці тому +1

      He missed Maze’s End in the land section.

    • @m1gr3nA
      @m1gr3nA 2 місяці тому +1

      this is normal 30$ secret lair with 120$ of cardboard padding. i get that those cards are useful but ypu need to build a lot of decks to find place for all of them so they are just padding.

    • @pluralkumquat
      @pluralkumquat 2 місяці тому +1

      You know what. I wasn't originally planning on modifying the deck at all. I don't own a single unmodified precon. But now that you mention Rakrumarel and Gallifrey Stands, I am tempted.

  • @TheDoubleA12
    @TheDoubleA12 2 місяці тому +22

    Honestly if they wanted a more coherent deck, they should've cut the number of wincons in half, make Kynaios and Tiro the face commander (since that card helps you with card advantage), and cut the few black cards in the deck + the harder to obtain wincons.

    • @elladan23
      @elladan23 2 місяці тому +3

      no one have complained with 10 ways to win deck.

    • @Iwatoda_Dorm
      @Iwatoda_Dorm 2 місяці тому +2

      That’s why i believe that it shoulda just been a normal secret lair product to begin either Dx they just slapped some cards in that works with each precon without choosing a lane and called it a day

    • @enricomassignani
      @enricomassignani 2 місяці тому +1

      That's not a bad idea 😊

  • @thecrazycapn
    @thecrazycapn 2 місяці тому +20

    This feels like a deck I'd build myself. It'd get played a few times, we'd all laugh, then it'd be retired. As a precon where Wizards is in on the joke, it feels like a very lame corporate thing. Do not want, and also no longer want to build it myself.

    • @PlasmaSpoon
      @PlasmaSpoon 2 місяці тому

      There are ways to build it so it works well, but it cost a lot and need to cut a lot of win cons to focused on the easier to synergize a whole deck with. Like, cutting maze's end help a lot for the mana base XD

  • @Azeria
    @Azeria 2 місяці тому +8

    16:44 because Daniel Holt is a huge Kamigawa fan and he designed this deck, that’s it.

  • @Drewtwu
    @Drewtwu 2 місяці тому +44

    Liliana's Contract in a deck that contains no demons

    • @walterwiffles7384
      @walterwiffles7384 2 місяці тому +10

      Maskwood Nexus is the "combo" for the contract.

    • @kozad86
      @kozad86 2 місяці тому

      Yes. This deck feels like it was put together by someone who just looks at cards and thinks the card by itself is great and doesn’t consider anything else. We all have one or two of those at the LGS. 🫠

    • @Billchu13
      @Billchu13 2 місяці тому +3

      Achievement unlocked

    • @Volmortanto
      @Volmortanto 2 місяці тому +4

      Or a Go Shintai deck with no other shrines

    • @PlasmaSpoon
      @PlasmaSpoon 2 місяці тому

      ​@@VolmortantoHaving buil a win con theme deck, I can see the appeal of having this commander if you focuse on tutoring your wincons anchentments in your grave to bring them back in instant speed. The token ability is irrelevent and pretty much any 5 colors commander would be a better fit in this particular deck list.

  • @trident042
    @trident042 2 місяці тому

    Honestly, kudos to Prof for taking the bold new direction of letting Tappy write his scripted segments. The tanuki balls really show here.

  • @Mikaelbrooks
    @Mikaelbrooks Місяць тому

    I bought this one specifically to bulk out my inventory of key card points for existing decks that were missing things, like some actual wincons for my B/W lifegain deck, my fun little treasure deck, and to actually have a shrine token for my shine deck. Seemed like a good deal for it since it packaged a bunch of "ideas" for different win cons to play toward. That and I loved the theme for the tanuki nonsense.

  • @davidmacarthur705
    @davidmacarthur705 2 місяці тому +41

    It is actually available, so that’s a win and I only waited 14 minutes yesterday so this was actually pretty good considering(the bar is so low after the Marvel drop)

    • @jackhemsworth7515
      @jackhemsworth7515 2 місяці тому +1

      there wasn't a queue on this one when i took a look at it. i once built a deck around packing as many win conditions into a deck as i could... it was scion of the ur dragon. which was part of the win conditions. however, 20 ways to win, without 20 cards in it that say "Win the game" on seems like a misfire.

    • @DaroriDerEinzige
      @DaroriDerEinzige 2 місяці тому

      Why do you even give them still your money?
      They literally put the Marvel Drop into the hands of scalpers just to make a quick buck. The "bugs" were well known by WotC.
      Don't be a mindless consumer. Just print the cards or order proxies.

    • @EvilNedTV
      @EvilNedTV 2 місяці тому

      I was in, out and done in no time flat

    • @DaroriDerEinzige
      @DaroriDerEinzige 2 місяці тому

      Why though?

    • @notapplicable6985
      @notapplicable6985 2 місяці тому +1

      ​@@DaroriDerEinzigeBecause it's just a bunch of cards that might loose value even with the secret lair reprint

  • @thetrinketmage
    @thetrinketmage 2 місяці тому +2

    The secret lair has inspired me to try this theme myself. Probably going to use some other alt wincons though!

  • @tuongpham7609
    @tuongpham7609 2 місяці тому +10

    The 20th victory was managing to get the deck before it sold out.

  • @WurthTapping
    @WurthTapping Місяць тому

    I am not surprised at all by the gameplay assessment in this video. I packed a commander deck with infinite combos once, had around the same number of infinites as this secret lair deck's win cons, and I never won a single game I played with it.

  • @PlasmaSpoon
    @PlasmaSpoon 2 місяці тому +5

    I've built a deck based on the theme. It's not a deck you want to play with if you want to win, but it surely fun to see the face of your opponents when you become the biggest threat in a single turn. Still upgrading it every year and find new ways to enjoy it!
    Beside, i do understand the appeal of having that particular commander, but I'd make ways to go grab the enchantments I want into the graveyard and bring it back in instant speed. But this deck is not worth it. Use your money to build it completely from scratch, with the win cons you want and the way you want it to be played.

  • @walrider8073
    @walrider8073 2 місяці тому +55

    Logical answer: No
    Brain answer: Yes
    Wallet answer: Send help

  • @callumarcher8111
    @callumarcher8111 2 місяці тому

    I was talking to my playgroup about how a deck dedicated to alt win-cons is actually pretty cool, but that if you have 4-5 of these already lying around you can make a much better version of it yourself.

  • @HiroZeroVirus
    @HiroZeroVirus 2 місяці тому +1

    I have actually had pretty good luck with an even more scattered version of this deck type. The trick is chaos, have so many wincons ticking up at once, that it becomes very difficult for a player to try and stop you without slowing down their own advancement. Simic ascendancy may be a good target, but you can deal with that or the several modified creatures that will swing in, (maybe even commander). The give is often, "sure you can handle ONE of my wincons, but if you try to handle the other three I have in action, the resources you will have to forfeit would make you an easy target to the other players."
    Opponent's threat assessment, Politicking, and Slight of Hand Distractions are as important to this kind of deck as any one of the setup cards.
    That said: Dismantle on a Darksteel Reactor is a much better wincon than Triskaidekaphile, there are wincons that help ensure that even if you are getting beat up, its all to your benefit, (Mortal Combat, Near Death Experience, Laboratory Maniac) and Mycosynth Lattice would help immensely with the Mechanized production/Biovisionary/Hellkite Tyrant setup
    Finally, definitely could have used a Doubling Season reprint.

  • @nathanglynn7443
    @nathanglynn7443 2 місяці тому +1

    The art reminds me of adventure time, of course I had to get it! I’ll also keep it together for casual games with mates, even if it is a dumpster fire and only wins 10% of the games, it doesn’t bother me, I’m just happy to be able to purchase one :)

  • @Hrafnskald
    @Hrafnskald 2 місяці тому +2

    6:07 Tanuki balls, all over your cards!
    *Prof turns and coughs* :D

  • @ryanwilhite
    @ryanwilhite 2 місяці тому +1

    15:20 Actually, Biovisionary will trigger at the beginning of the end step, so if you targeted it with a kicked Rite of Replication, you don't have to wait for everyone else at the table to take a turn before it wins you the game.

  • @jsato4921
    @jsato4921 2 місяці тому +1

    15:20 Biovisionary triggers on End Step, so you don't have to wait a full rotation. It's one the few alt. win cons that don't trigger on upkeep.

  • @grantmurdock7385
    @grantmurdock7385 2 місяці тому +1

    I built an Urtet deck, with a Gates mana base because budget. Then I learned about Maze's End. Then Helix Pinnacle, then Simic Ascendancy, then Millennium Calendar, then... well, I call this deck "wincon roulette" because these are all very doable with this army of Myr, it's just a question of what I draw.
    Highly recommend that for a functional bit of insanity.

  • @style0vertalent191
    @style0vertalent191 2 місяці тому +23

    Kinda funny...even though it's not.
    Prof: 'WotC could do this or that or hey, at least that.'
    Wotc: 'Yeah whatever, we just do less with literally every new release and sometimes even charge more. LuL'

  • @stunnfisk1276
    @stunnfisk1276 2 місяці тому

    Thank you for always doing a lot to promote magic and help players in the community professor.

  • @InitialT-tm-
    @InitialT-tm- 2 місяці тому +13

    18:55 Haha - 20 ways to lose.

    • @justinb845
      @justinb845 2 місяці тому +1

      I skipped to the end to see the grades and got the accurate deck description too😂

  • @locomb
    @locomb 2 місяці тому +2

    Everyone forgets about the Angels precon when speaking about Secret Lair commander decks.

    • @KnightsofTitan
      @KnightsofTitan 2 місяці тому

      Lmao i own that and i forgot about it till i saw this 😅

  • @tea4freee
    @tea4freee 11 днів тому

    As a Jenny who has purchased and played this deck, I love it and would never change it. (I also have like four other decks where mazes end is the only win con, so I am aware I am the minority :))))

  • @mikotagayuna8494
    @mikotagayuna8494 2 місяці тому +2

    They should make 20 Ways Wizards Screwed Everyone. At the back of my head, it would be extremely expensive because it contains the following: a couple of Companions, a vanilla Chronicles legend, a proxy 30th anniversary Power Nine card, a Nexus of Fate, Rick from Walking Dead, a sticker card, a Marvel superhero and random Reserved List proxies.

  • @Gel-E_Phish
    @Gel-E_Phish 2 місяці тому +1

    As a huge fan of tanuki's and a lot of money to usually spend, and in need of an excuse to play Go-Shintai, I think this is perfect for me to disassemble for its fun cards, and rebuild for Go-Shintai!

  • @KamakaziUnicorn
    @KamakaziUnicorn 2 місяці тому

    Biovisionary checks at end step, you don't have to wait through your opponents turns, you just have to survive instant speed removal.

  • @thewitchef
    @thewitchef 2 місяці тому +3

    I need that Go-Shintai art, but I'll wait to buy just the single.

    • @jacobguy3343
      @jacobguy3343 2 місяці тому +1

      Heck if u are using it as your commander u could easily get rhe thicc verison for cheaper aswell

    • @thewitchef
      @thewitchef 2 місяці тому

      @jacobguy3343 You're right! That's a great idea

  • @vincentmccue7481
    @vincentmccue7481 2 місяці тому +7

    Don't forget about putting Pariah on a creature that you put the Darksteel Mutation on, that's another way to "win".
    But we get Sun Titan, so that is the only win I need.
    Also, to be fair, the Biovisionary is an end of turn trigger, so you don't have to wait a turn cycle.
    Tauren Mauler + Rite of Replication wouldn't work for Liliana's Contract since they need different names. Nexus is the only combination that gets you there.
    Go-Shintai + Kicked Rite is like 30 shrines tokens, right?

    • @calicifierr1627
      @calicifierr1627 2 місяці тому +1

      Go shintai only counts itself (Tokens and clones with the same name count as seperate objects) and NON token shrines. Kicked Rite would make 5 Go Shintai tokens, who would make a total of 5 1/1 shrine tokens on etb and then die from the legend rule.

    • @vincentmccue7481
      @vincentmccue7481 2 місяці тому

      @@calicifierr1627 yep, missed that non-token part. Thanks.

  • @justwrath2049
    @justwrath2049 2 місяці тому

    I can't believe Prof had the balls to not use the new Secret Lair alert in this video.

  • @cjraymond7216
    @cjraymond7216 2 місяці тому

    I actually bought this deck. I liked the reprint value, art, and it's the kind of thing my boyfriend will love playing with (complete jank and alt wincons).

  • @Speedemon559
    @Speedemon559 2 місяці тому

    I think a shuffle up and play video with only secret layer decks would be really fun! I believe there is 5 decks so we could have every one except the heads I win, tails you lose deck since we have already seen it perform on shuffle up and play.

  • @edward5636
    @edward5636 2 місяці тому

    Feel like this deck is absolutely ideal for taking apart, and making 2-3 or more different decks that'll run more efficiently

  • @RipsterBolton
    @RipsterBolton Місяць тому

    Thank you, boss! I almost spent £150 in (not) 20 ways to win.
    I will get Hail, Caesar, Veloci-ramp-tor, and Urza's Iron Alliance instead.

  • @retrovector2792
    @retrovector2792 2 місяці тому

    Prof and team, you saved me! I'm looking forward to this drop and missed the notification email but I was still able to pick one up because you released your video 😁

  • @Salaundre
    @Salaundre 2 місяці тому

    I remember getting the last, “Premium,” Commander decks. The tokens were not double sided foil like every other foil token.

  • @kudacoo9452
    @kudacoo9452 2 місяці тому

    I got this deck for a more casual yet fun experience, it will be an endless workshop. I’m definitely cutting biovisionary and Liliana.

  • @toddmannloses
    @toddmannloses Місяць тому

    After having played w the deck myself, id say its not nearly as clunky as youd think and pretty solid cards

  • @Sabshark
    @Sabshark 2 місяці тому +3

    "I will someday" IS THE PROFESSOR BUYING HASBRO?

  • @JayTheDragonKing
    @JayTheDragonKing 2 місяці тому +1

    Thanks I really didn't know anything about this deck. It came out of left field.

  • @plaidpoet
    @plaidpoet 2 місяці тому

    My own experience was fairly good, I had forgotten until late in the day and ordered at 5 pm MST AZ, I ordered two decks and the whole affair took less than three minutes.

  • @davedussault8324
    @davedussault8324 2 місяці тому

    Fun fact: this is also Prof's audition tape for the role of Bobby Singer in the upcoming Supernatural reboot.

  • @ZillagolightlyAmadeus
    @ZillagolightlyAmadeus 2 місяці тому

    Even though the price tag sucks id like to point out all the secret lair decks are all currently worth well over what they were originally selling for so you can argue that long term their is a lot of value. As for playabilty ive played they hell out of all the secret laor decks and they all do fairly well. Even the cute to brute comes out of nowhere woth wins.

  • @SebastianSkadisson
    @SebastianSkadisson 2 місяці тому

    To me it's another puzzle piece, ontop of the Foundations Starter Collection and all the solid cards of the last few sets, for a newcomer to build a very profound deck right away.

  • @noahworthington6980
    @noahworthington6980 2 місяці тому +19

    It’s still available 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

  • @EvilNedTV
    @EvilNedTV 2 місяці тому +11

    Look, I'm gonna be real, it's low powered perfect for super casual EDH. It's a good deck to play while chatting and not focusing solely on the game

    • @drakegrandx5914
      @drakegrandx5914 2 місяці тому

      Allright, but why would you spend $149.99 for that kind of deck. People are going to spend that much only because of the exclusive art and the cards' retail value; for anyone with a brink of sanity, actually playing with the deck is only going to be an afterthought.

  • @TrevHolland
    @TrevHolland 2 місяці тому +1

    Someone get this guy a "How to Juggle" book for Christmas!

  • @toastedbagel9306
    @toastedbagel9306 2 місяці тому +11

    7:18 I very much would have preferred an entire nonfoil deck. I don’t really like foils in my decks and even do 1:1 trades with my friends for their basic lands to get rid of my foil ones

    • @BearMfkr
      @BearMfkr 2 місяці тому

      Agreed, I find mtg cards to be especially ugly when in foil

    • @djevon4853
      @djevon4853 Місяць тому

      I like this, I am a foil enjoyer and would love options for pre-blinged out decks. But, having the option opposite of that is even more important (both for non-foil enjoyers and for money reasons)

  • @PopoTCG
    @PopoTCG 2 місяці тому +2

    I keep seeing people forgetting that there was an Angel Secret Lair deck too

  • @DaroriDerEinzige
    @DaroriDerEinzige 2 місяці тому +5

    In Europe it costs even 164,99€ - Which is roughly around 173 USD.
    So, yeah, no way. :)

  • @welz-i4v
    @welz-i4v 2 місяці тому

    "i will some day" about having control over secret lair some day is crazy

  • @samuraidraco1571
    @samuraidraco1571 2 місяці тому

    I'm so glad I didn't buy this. I was thinking of buying it just to play it in commander games, and you breaking this down for me professor as a fairly new player is incredible insightful. I truly thank you for saving me money.

  • @Ktwitch88
    @Ktwitch88 2 місяці тому

    Thanks for the reminder to breath! This was a fun video. See ya tomorrow!

  • @IzzysIssues
    @IzzysIssues 2 місяці тому

    This is the kind of deck idea my friends and I would have after a night deep in our cups and even then we'd realize it wouldn't work like we'd want

  • @AC3handle
    @AC3handle 2 місяці тому

    The way I look at secret lairs is this: If it hasn't sold out, I probably don't want it.
    If it has sold out, then I can't get it anyway.
    Win for me.

  • @902496
    @902496 2 місяці тому

    The "alt win con deck" is very buildable, but you generally want to stick to around 5 alt win cons, and want to pick ones that steer you toward similar strategies. 20 is way too many to ever make a cohesive deck that has a decent chance of winning with any of its wincons. That said I have an alt win con deck and I love the Tanuki art and this wasn't sold out earlier today so I got one...

  • @JavierOrtizBultron
    @JavierOrtizBultron 2 місяці тому

    I know the answer is no, but enjoy watching the Prof's videos regardless.

  • @joecrawford-ub4mc
    @joecrawford-ub4mc 2 місяці тому

    That smash bros animation when the deck fell just gave me a stroke

  • @Kydrou
    @Kydrou 2 місяці тому +1

    3:20 GAME-!

  • @pyroki9296
    @pyroki9296 2 місяці тому

    Haven't watched this yet, but I'm just gonna hope the result was yes. I just finished sleeving the deck to take for a spin and was looking into the enduring ideal it came with curious if the special edition printing will be worth more than the regular one.
    Edit: I've watched it and the professor was right with twenty toed toad counting for 2 of the win conditions. The deck also comes with a list of all the win conditions, giving a name to each one reminiscent of a video game achievement. I agree the deck lacks any kind of cohesive strategy, but I'm hoping it'll at least be fun to play. If not, I can disassemble it. Also the commander's activated ability effects a total of 22 cards in the deck, making it not as bad as I thought when seeing the choice. I still think Kenrith would've been the better choice, but I'll give Go-Shintai a chance for a little bit at least.

  • @MissAshley42
    @MissAshley42 2 місяці тому

    I'm getting it and rebuilding it to focus only the win-cons with alternate art as well as to skim a few cards for other decks along the way.

  • @KonwTheTrut
    @KonwTheTrut 2 місяці тому

    This deck feels like when someone builds their first 5 colored deck and just auto includes all the good cards lol

  • @theapehunter6379
    @theapehunter6379 2 місяці тому

    i rushed to see if it was still available and yes it was, also just bought it imediatly cause it has my favorite commander of all time

  • @Bleuchz
    @Bleuchz 2 місяці тому

    EVERY SL commander deck has appreciated in value since its release its worth noting.

  • @blazing_eme8825
    @blazing_eme8825 2 місяці тому

    "Ramos, Dragon Engine" is a much better commander for this deck

  • @JediMB
    @JediMB 2 місяці тому

    I need to check if my brother still has his old Alternate Wincon deck.
    Updating that with some of the more recent cards (many of which are reprinted here) could be fun.

  • @fikamonster2564
    @fikamonster2564 2 місяці тому +1

    I LOVE The art of the tanuki cards. But yeah i wish it was 20 tanuki art cards. Then the price would have felt plausibly right. But rn it feels nuts
    Im probably just gonna proxy the whole thing tbh. Hecking secret lair things…

  • @shadowkillion
    @shadowkillion 20 днів тому

    Came here to watch this after seeing a Maze's End win condition met. Using Maze's End to fetch the gates and Circuitous Route as a one use alternate card to help push quicker is a low chance of it happening... but now I'm wanting to just have all Gates in an all color deck just to make things interesting 😅

  • @alexcrossx
    @alexcrossx 2 місяці тому

    The raccoon arts is cute as hell, but damn. The whole deck is just clusterfuk of wincons without synergy.

  • @rohezalvomambo1208
    @rohezalvomambo1208 2 місяці тому

    The epitome of WotCs not caring about playability, it has written "Selling Singles" all over the place.

  • @obadijahparks
    @obadijahparks 2 місяці тому

    The revel in riches is the best part of this.

  • @infraredux
    @infraredux 2 місяці тому

    Making opponent scoop at instant speed is always way to win #1.

  • @BostonJon420
    @BostonJon420 2 місяці тому

    😂😂Those tanuki jokes got me.

  • @duelindog4667
    @duelindog4667 2 місяці тому

    You don’t have to wait for your opponents to take a turn for a biovisionary win, it’s on your own end step

  • @DubberOne1
    @DubberOne1 2 місяці тому

    Thanks! I was waiting for this video!

  • @collin2401
    @collin2401 2 місяці тому

    Ordered it before watching the video, time to find out if that was a good idea lol