And when paired with the right round, like the Underwood Xtreme Defender +P or Defiant Munitions TCX, a .380 handgun can be nearly as effective as a 9mm.
I'm more a 9mm guy, but I think there are some options nowadays for 380 that make it a compelling option (especially for summer carry). Underwood's Xtreme Defender comes to mind. with a solid copper 68gr traveling 1300 fps.. offers similar performance to hollow points without the inherent hollow point issues with 380 velocities.
there's this really old granny (bless her heart) at my clubs weekly shooting "matches". She shoots a .380. She likes it for the recoil impulse. Well I'll be damned if I don't say that I saw that woman shoot better and more accurate than alot of the guys there with 9s
I'm more of a revolver guy, but with my auto's , since I like to conceal I like the 380 and even the 32's. Sure it's lacking in power, but I like the ease of shooting and accuracy. It will still kill if need be.
Excellent comparison, started carrying 92 when I found out lapd carried them. I was a building contractor and usually the second call after the fire department during the riots and earthquakes. I figured it increased my odds of going home on a daily basis. Plus it was tamer than my .45 acp colt
Do you think in areas where a 10rd capacity is law people will gravitate back to larger rounds like 40 or 10mm for the idea that a single round makes a more significant impact than 9mm or does accuracy still trump that for better hits with a manageable cartridge. Its kind of what you said but mag limits lead me to think for the size were used to cary 15rds of 9mm now 10rds of 40 to make up the difference.
You spelled " law" wrong. Political parasites don't create Law. They make edicts enFORCED by order following terrorists and sheep who are brainwashed into thinking " freedom" is based on " being good" whether the rules are moral or not no one seems to care so long as its " legal". Authority is the most dangerous superstition.
@@rogerwood5228 - mostly I've carried my 1911 and revolvers since the 70's. By choice. I simply like them. But I support carrying of high-cap semi-autos by good folks legally able to do so. If it can't be done legally, the smart play is to not go to jail for the sake of a 15 round mag... Jail sucks, as does becoming a convicted criminal. You're right, I think most folks will comply with the laws restricting mag capacity. Perhaps someday soon the bans on high cap magazines will be ruled unconstitutional. I think the winds are blowing in that direction.
It definitely played a part in why I chose 40 s&w here in California. I carry my G23(40 s&w) mostly but in the warmer months I carry my p365(9mm). 10mm is way overkill for humans in an urban environment. I only bring my xten 10mm bowhunting.
Yeah I have 9mm’s, but I always carry my .40 or .380’s most of the time. I want a Cheeta 80x. I think it would be my EDC tbh with underwood 90 gr xtp +p. Tbh it will end a bear with extreme defenders +p, especially a black bear, but even a polar or grizzly bear, period. Seen a eurasian brown bear (big ahh grizzly) get taken out by a 9mm makarov which has about the same energy as a Underwood +p ammo. Even iut of the LCP it has more energy than Hornady 95 gr FTX, and matches standard 95 gr FMJ. Last two compared makarovs were 211 ft lbs for the ftx and 231 for the fmj. Then makarov also has 263, 279, and 342 ft lbs listed for some ammos. They are all with 3.9” test barrel. The Underwood +p ammo from the 2.75” LCP is usually about 228 ft lbs. The Cheetah 80x is 3.9” barrel as well. Internal pressure for Makarov is 23,500 psi. For .380 acp it is 21,500. Case capacity 12.8 grains of powder for Makarov vs 11.8 grains of powder for .380 acp. They are literally the same cartridge 97%. The Cheetah 80x would hit around 300 ft lbs energy with +p Underwood. Thats like 86% of the power of 9mm from a 4.65” barrel EDIT: OH WOW there’s a .380 testing at 337 and 309 ft lbs from a 3.75” barrel
I carry a Sig P365 in 380 with Sig V Crown ammo. It's easy to carry. Rapid shots on target, and my wife can shoot it. I'm a believer in practice, training, then practicing, and then train some more. Pick an ammo you are confident in, and don't worry about what others think when it comes to what works for YOU. It's been said by many people, I've never met someone who wants to be shot with a 380. I've pulled Hornady critical defense rounds from a phone book at the shooting range, and they have been the size of a dime when extracted.
Have always been a 9 fan own quiet a few .jest got diagnosed with Parkinson’s and have some weak now in left arm so now have a m@p shield 380ez 300 rounds of Armscor hollow points through it no issues. It is now my carry along with 2 extra magazines
9mm for self defense. Use factory Federal Punch not reloads as per self defense attorney. I do reload 9mm for practice ammo. This was great. Glad to see Gavin having you do videos you do an awesome job.
Agree. This Bersa is just incredibly comfortable to shoot... At this point I don't even have a decent carry holster for it, but ya never know... Not sure I want to go to the 380, but perhaps someday.
As Guy hinted at one point, 875-900 fps seems to be an important threshold for .380 ACP defensive ammo. Above it, you tend to see fairly reliable expansion from modern self-defense bullets. Below it, it gets very difficult. The Hornady 90gr XTP bullets are a good choice. They can deliver a good mix of penetration and expansion, leaning toward penetration (which is desirable in a lower power round like .380) - but again, it really helps if you can push them to 900 fps velocity. Remember, too, that most people are carrying .380s with shorter barrels than the Bersa used for this test, so they will get somewhat lower velocity. Including a Ruger LCP (sub-3” barrel) in the mix here might have helped broaden out the applicability of the .380 data. Might need to go back and rethink that .380 CFE Pistol load with a different powder, I’d say. It couldn’t break 850 fps even from a 3.5” gun. I wouldn’t expect the XTP to expand in that circumstance; it’ll just behave like a flat nose FMJ.
Hi Guy, Great handgun comparison, I loved your video. Thank you. I bought my Beretta 92FS September 2020, 9mm Luger chambering. I hand load my ammunition for this handgun. I love this handgun because every projectile type I hand loaded feeds without failure. I have used projectiles from Hornady 115 & 124 gn FMJ RN and 124 XTP. I have also used Sig Sauer 124 gn “V Crown” and the Speer 124 gn Gold dot JHP. I use the Hodgen’s CFE Pistol propellant. I don’t provide propellant charge mass to prevent legal problems. Great handgun based on my experience.
Thanks Guy! The only malfunction I have experienced is the slide does not lock back after the last round is fired from the magazine. This also happens with factory ammunition (consistently). I’ve tried a harder grip and trying to keep my left hand support thumb away from the slide lock lever. The end result is about 30% slide lock back. Also, I experience primer cratering on my hand loads and factory ammunition. I discovered that the bolt face, around the firing pin, has a small countersink machined into the bolt face. My 92FS was manufactured in Tennessee.
Beretta service, while under their 3 year warranty, was very bad. I was promised that a technician would call me back and never did. So I gave up on their technical support from Maryland.
@@ericabig3471 - that's sad to hear. I attended the Beretta Armorer's three-day class years ago - sent there by my Police Dept, but none of our Beretta's ever needed repair!
Thanks Guy! What did your primers look like from your Beretta after being fired? Did you see primer cratering? Does the bolt face, around the firing pin, have a small countersink? Perhaps about a 0.005” radial distance from the firing pin outside diameter. Sorry for bothering you with my bad experience, if it is bad. I’m trying to find out what is normal for Beretta 92FS fired cartridges relative to primer condition. My 1987 Springfield M1A and 1944 M1 Garand rifles do not show any primer cratering. So when I saw this primer cratering on my new Beretta handgun fired primers I was very concerned. I’m thinking it is normal now, but why would Beretta USA (TN) countersink the bolt face around the firing pin? Does’t make sense to me. That’s why I’m hoping you may have some insight of my concern. Thank you in advance for your consideration!
My edc has evoled from a Taurus 38spcl to. Glock 26 back to a 38spcl (a Charter this time) to a Ruger lcr 22wmr that ive been carrying for the past couple 2-3yrs. Practice ammo is DIRT CHEAP and even my carry ammo (Speer GD) is cheap enough to plink with..
I have both but stopped carrying the .380 due to its age (didnt trust a 100yr old Savage with my life) even though it shoots well. Got a G2C and a Stance. for EDC now. Loading with Winchester 231 and a 115g HTP bullet.
Well done. Excellent perspective and experience. I definitely prefer the 40 or 357 Sig and have for a couple decades. But the 9 ammo availability and affordability are hard to argue with. So I get 9mm barrels for my 40s and practice with 9 a good bit. I reload everything except 357 Sig. Thank you.
357 Sig is worth handloading, it does very well with Longshot powder. 1400 fps with a 124 gr bullet and a 4" barrel. Right up there with a 6" 357 magnum revolver.
Been reloading all these for years. I like unique for plinking loads particularly. I also load Bullseye with a light bullet for .45 acp or 9mm for target. When I carry, I use factory loaded ammo and have tried different ones through the years. For my .380 LCP, I use Winchester train & defend. For the .45 acp, Sierra's hp loads and for 9mm I use hornady critical defense. I personally prefer a full size 1911 in .45 acp or my PX9 in 9mm for home defense use. When Hunting, I tend to stick to my revolvers, the .45 Colt or .357 mag.
Not carrying anything yet, thinking of getting the S&W Shield Plus in 30 Super carry. I wish we could safely load the 380 ACP to a bit more pressure. Just enough to get the 90gr bullet up to 1100fps... in a 3.5" Barrel
I have a couple of 9mm pistols but I prefer the 40 S&W. The 9mm ammo today is pretty good but I started buying pistols almost 30 years ago and back then, the 40 was “it”. I’m not sure that I’d do it differently today though. The 40 is a proven performer in LE and Citizen involved shootings. It has a got a great balance of speed, weight, energy and recoil along with enough capacity to make it a top contender for self defense. It gives up a lot of ground to the 9mm due to its cost of practice ammo though. Choose what you’re comfortable with and practice until you can’t get it wrong. Wyatt Earp once said, “Fast is fine, but accuracy is final”.
I could never shoot the Beretta 92 platform worth jack, even though they’re quality pistols. Meanwhile I am lights out (for me) with the CZ75 platform. It’s subjective; grip angle probably makes a difference in that comparison
@@FMDad-dm5qo While I do like the Beretta 92 series as well as I own several, I’ll admit that their grip design has always been just to “fat.” …and I have very large “bear paw” hands to hold the gun. But you’re right, the grip and thickness of the CZ75’s are A+.
I carry every day, all day and I change my carry weapon and holster depending on the situation. I recently got a H&K P30SK 9mm and I love it. This has become my EDC with OWB holster since we have entered the colder weather and sweatshirts and coats are in season. I like the thicker hand grip and heaver pistol. When working around the house, painting, cutting grass, washing cars/working on cars etc, I usually carry M&P Shield 9mm either IWB or OWB. IWB carry helps keep the pistol out of the way and prevents impacting movement. (I can say that both IWB and OWB carry are very comfortable with me and I don't feel them at all, for any pistol I carry) When I am doing dog training and need my waist band for treat pouch and other tools, I use to carry my M&P Shield in an ankle holster. Because it takes more time and effort to access it, and the sweatshirt weather in season, I switched to my Bersa Thunder 380 ACP with a shoulder holster. I also carry my Walther PPK/S with a shoulder holster under my tee shirt, in warm weather. Bottom line is I carry whatever is practical for the current situation and I feel comfortable with all.
with the SIG 365.....all bets are off.....if you can hit well with a 365 9mm.....there is NO place for a 380....unless it;s a backup (one of those that will jam....they all do, and if yours hasn't, you haven't used it much ).
Hodgdon Longshot is also called LOUDSHOT by many of us that use it. Also, for a defensive load, it has a lot of muzzle flash. I prefer a max load of CFE Pistol for 124gr 9mm.
I took some 9mm handloads to the range once and had someone comment to me in the parking lot about the muzzle flash. The powder was Blue Dot. Great for performance and big on fire balls 💥💥💥
Most of the time I carry either a Beretta 85 or Beretta 84 with xtreme defense ammo. When I carry a 9 mm, its a CZ75D compact with sig v-crown 115 or 124. When I go to the range I shoot 9mm. I figure if I can do well with the 9mm then I can do well with the .380 and my targets show it.
That 1200 FPS value for Hornady TAP ammo? According to their website, that's coming out of a 24" barrel. I would expect much lower velocity out of a handgun. Or that their website has a typo. Either way, I find 1200 to be a very optimistic figure.
Love the Chanel and y'all are great but the Title should be 9mm+p vs .380. Why didn't you use .380+p? The results are now kinda moot as I'd say most people don't use +p ammo.
380+P isn't recognized by SAAMI, however 9mm+P is. The 380 handload I used was the most powerful 90 gr load listed by Hodgdon, the 9mm load I used was the most powerful 124 grain load listed by Hodgdon - and interestingly, not listed as a +P handload, it generated more velocity at lower pressure. That Longshot powder worked out great, once again.
.380 +P exists even if SAAMI doesn't have a standard. And I agree, most people aren't using 9mm +P. I'd love to see a comparison between a standard 9mm and an Underwood XTP +P .380. Smaller concealed carry option while approaching 9mm power.
The question isn’t which is “better,” or even which is “more deadly.” With 9MM having double the muzzle energy of the .380, that’s a no-brainer. The real question is to ask whether the .380 is “good enough.” Just as there is no “perfect” gun, there is no “perfect” round. More important, the “mouse gun” you have with you is infinitely better than the “wonder weapon” you left back in the gun safe. Let’s look at some compromises worth weighing: - .380 pistols tend to be a lot smaller and lighter than 9MM pistols. Easier to carry, easier to conceal; - With most shootings taking place at very modest ranges, “more power” isn’t that relevant; - Only hits count. A .380 in the brain is far more effective than a canon round that misses; - Ammunition design is a far more relevant factor that simple muzzle energy. A nicely mushroomed .380 hollow-point is more effective than an intact 9MM hardball; and, - Be realistic in assessing your threat. Are you really likely to be facing an opponent far away and behind cover - or someone within grappling distance? Are you likely to be facing down a Chinese horde, or a single meth-head? Again, range time is critical. Which specific pistol has given YOU the best aim? I have one .380 with which I easily qualify - and another that won’t let me get a head shot unless I stick it in someone’s mouth. In between these two rounds (in power) is the venerable .38 Special. Don’t overlook the trusty revolver. Revolvers are still relevant, and are even better choices in certain situations.
As for each calibers’ suitability for concealed carry, I found a recent visit to a large gun shop quite illuminating. Let me explain . . . I started carrying a .380 Bersa years ago. At the time, this gun was quite a bit smaller than the various 9MM offerings. Or, at least, smaller than other guns that offered a reasonable grip. Today the contrast isn’t nearly as great. Both Sig and Glock have compact models with reasonably sized grips, yet their 9MM offering is quite similar to their .380 offering. (Just be sure both have single stack magazines when you compare). Why my focus on grips? Because only hits count. I found my accuracy with the Bersa was quite a bit better than I had with various other guns - including a snub-nosed revolver with a nearly full sized grip. By contrast, I couldn’t hit anything farther away than contact distance with my tiny Kel-Tec .380. Now . . . How will things compare with today’s offerings? Only time at the range will tell; look for a range that will rent you various pistols to try out. It was during such practice that I found the Sig model to feel considerably more “top heavy” than its’ Glock counterpart - a factor that will influence which I buy. Were I to “start over,” would I still chose .380? Maybe not. .380 no longer has that size advantage I had found before. My choice would probably be decided by my accuracy between comparable pistols. As I said: Only hits count.
I use some questions to determine if a gun is good for self defense/conceal carry. 1. Does it shoot bullets reliably? Yes. Then yes, it is good for self defense.
I find it hard to save $$ reloading 9mm for practice. (I’m not into using cast bullets for semi-autos.) In contrast, reloading .380 ACP can easily save money.
With the price of 380 i will gladly buya micro size 9 every time. •Price of your average 380 is so similar to an inexpensive 9 •380 ammo is the same price as 9 •what youre getting out of the end of the barrel is so different as far as impact is the only noticeable difference. Its why i never understood the 380
@@brandoncantu195 no I haven't because I'm behind occupied territory in california. A 380 hi point cost 189.99 here at the least. A 9mm sccy cost about 230. I've never seen a 9 or 380 for less than about 200, with that being said, due to the cost of ammo with the extra 11% everyone is pretty much better off with a 9 here
im from a alternate time line where the USA military kept with the 1911 instead of the 92. We won WWIII single handly by the 1911. May god help you and your timeline without the 1911..
Probably my best takeaway from this shooting is Instinct. That said, What are the limits?:Just how far of a distance can a person actually instinctively shoot accurately? This may surprise you but I know a guy who can hit every shot inside two to three inches without sights and without looking from one foot out to two hundred yards. He is amazing! He uses triple F powder and lead projectiles. 👈🏻
I live in the city and I'm no cop so no qualified immunity. Winter is ok for a 9 but summertime is perfect for the 380. Jury's convict shooters with good intentions everyday, so be careful where the bullets go.
830fps with 90gr is weak for 380. 950fps with a 3.5 inch barrel is rather normal not even +p. In general it looks to me like 380 is becoming more and more popular.
For everyone saying that 9mm is better for self defense: Would you rather get shot with a 380 or a 9mm? If you’re answer is neither then there you go. If you chose one over the other then I think you have bigger things to resolve than choosing a caliber to defend yourself with.
@@Gieszkanne I’ll tell you what, I’ll edit the comment to capitalize the B and the C thusly indicating they represent a proper name and not a coloring process taking place in a judiciary setting.
Ok, there are a lot of videos on this subject. Why not it is a fun debate. So here's my 2 cents. 9mm is prohibitively, and head and shoulders better option for 99% of people! Not even a contest. Why? Not due to any ballistics or available platforms. But.... Cost of practice! We all agree that nothing improves performance or effectiveness, more than practice, right? Well then, it's 10 to 1 cost. Dime bags to dollars. You will be so much better with a gun you've fired 1000 times vs one you fired 100. And whatever niche you need filled, there's a 9mm round/firearm combination. Small and soft shooting for Granny , check. +P and hollow pointed to satisfy ballistics nerds, got that covered. Sure, if you're some fat cat with money, no object. Go ahead and get that deep blue PPK with the fancy wood grips and PRACTICE. Just remember your bodyguards will be carrying 9's
LOL! Biased from the getgo. A variety of 9mm pistols and only one 380 and a Bersa at that. Lots of detail on the 9mm loads, sketchy on the 380. His 9mm load has 399 ft lbs at the muzzle, great. A standard 357 commercial load is about 550. If power is everything, why settle for a 9? My Sig P365 380 weighs about a pound and holds 10 + 1. In a Sneaky Pete holster even gun store and shooting range personnel are shocked to discover that there's a gun in there and it's a one hand draw and one hand shot. I'll take it any day over a Kahr 9mm with near zero sights, an impossibly long and heavy DA only trigger and recoil that would knock the average shooter back into last week. By the way, what is the minimum muzzle energy in ft-lbs for adequate self defense? On average, 4 people are killed every year in the US by air guns, so obviously, in some cases, less than 50 ft-lbs is adequate.
LMFAO .380 costs more than 9mm .380 is harder to find than 9mm .380 doesn’t offer as many loads .380 aren’t much smaller than 9mm .380 aren’t much lighter than 9mm What exactly DOES it do? Gives its fanboys a turd to keep polishing. The only reason to carry .380 over 9mm is if 9mm is prohibited in your country or you ALREADY own a .380 and can’t afford another gun.
There's no reason for this test because we already know the 380 sucks when it comes to stopping power. The 9mm is no great shakes either, being just a 50% stopper.
The handloads I compared were standard loads, and hit 1,200 fps in the 9mm. Those were not +P loads. I only used +P to show what the 9mm can do in factory ammo. SAAMI doesn't yet recognize a 380+P.
Interesting to note that both handloads I showed were the maximum listed by Hodgdon, and that 1,200 fps 9mm load is shown by Hodgdon as fast or faster than their +P loads but without +P pressure. SAAMI doesn't recognize a 380+P load, or I'd have tried that too. So, neither handload was a +P load, just maximum according to Hodgdon, with pressures shown in their load data.
Hi, I follow your UA-cam channel and would like to make a request. For the wrong reasons, today we have this "new" caliber in Brazil, officially launched by Taurus here last week. According to information from specialized personnel here in Brazil who have already analyzed the published technical characteristics, they describe it as a commercial version of the reloaded 9mm ballistic characteristics, commonly used in IPSC competitions. It would be great if you, in contact with your supporters, and Taurus get access to both the "new" ammunition and pistol models that suit it for an evaluation. I honestly believe that this caliber could gain worldwide acceptance for a specific audience that has difficulties with the 9mm but wants something more than the .380. Kind regards. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_TPC
380 times better than having nothing with you.
Certainly better than fingernails.
And when paired with the right round, like the Underwood Xtreme Defender +P or Defiant Munitions TCX, a .380 handgun can be nearly as effective as a 9mm.
Also better than a bulging 9mm in my bathing suit pocket metal detecting a metro Detroit lake
.25 ACP is better than nothing. That is not the point here.
I'm more a 9mm guy, but I think there are some options nowadays for 380 that make it a compelling option (especially for summer carry). Underwood's Xtreme Defender comes to mind. with a solid copper 68gr traveling 1300 fps.. offers similar performance to hollow points without the inherent hollow point issues with 380 velocities.
there's this really old granny (bless her heart) at my clubs weekly shooting "matches". She shoots a .380. She likes it for the recoil impulse. Well I'll be damned if I don't say that I saw that woman shoot better and more accurate than alot of the guys there with 9s
I'm more of a revolver guy, but with my auto's , since I like to conceal I like the 380 and even the 32's. Sure it's lacking in power, but I like the ease of shooting and accuracy. It will still kill if need be.
I've never heard someone get shot and say: "I'm glad it was a .380" 😂
@@TheWrightDev916 In the grand scheme of things, I don't think anyone got shot and said 'Glad I got shot by xyz caliber'.
Excellent comparison, started carrying 92 when I found out lapd carried them. I was a building contractor and usually the second call after the fire department during the riots and earthquakes. I figured it increased my odds of going home on a daily basis. Plus it was tamer than my .45 acp colt
Do you think in areas where a 10rd capacity is law people will gravitate back to larger rounds like 40 or 10mm for the idea that a single round makes a more significant impact than 9mm or does accuracy still trump that for better hits with a manageable cartridge. Its kind of what you said but mag limits lead me to think for the size were used to cary 15rds of 9mm now 10rds of 40 to make up the difference.
You spelled " law" wrong. Political parasites don't create Law. They make edicts enFORCED by order following terrorists and sheep who are brainwashed into thinking " freedom" is based on " being good" whether the rules are moral or not no one seems to care so long as its " legal". Authority is the most dangerous superstition.
It will be interesting to see how that evolves.
The Clinton Era AWB already answered that question, yes. I knew more people carrying 1911s around that time, as did I, than anything else.
@@rogerwood5228 - mostly I've carried my 1911 and revolvers since the 70's. By choice. I simply like them. But I support carrying of high-cap semi-autos by good folks legally able to do so. If it can't be done legally, the smart play is to not go to jail for the sake of a 15 round mag... Jail sucks, as does becoming a convicted criminal. You're right, I think most folks will comply with the laws restricting mag capacity. Perhaps someday soon the bans on high cap magazines will be ruled unconstitutional. I think the winds are blowing in that direction.
It definitely played a part in why I chose 40 s&w here in California. I carry my G23(40 s&w) mostly but in the warmer months I carry my p365(9mm). 10mm is way overkill for humans in an urban environment. I only bring my xten 10mm bowhunting.
Point of impact is so important which a smaller caliber
Great video.
I'll give my cousin a heads up about saving her brass an reloading her 380.
In cooler weather my Shield 40 is on my side. In hot summer weather my Bodyguard 380 is always there.
Yeah I have 9mm’s but I always carry my .40 or .380 99% of the time
Yeah I have 9mm’s, but I always carry my .40 or .380’s most of the time.
I want a Cheeta 80x. I think it would be my EDC tbh with underwood 90 gr xtp +p. Tbh it will end a bear with extreme defenders +p, especially a black bear, but even a polar or grizzly bear, period. Seen a eurasian brown bear (big ahh grizzly) get taken out by a 9mm makarov which has about the same energy as a Underwood +p ammo. Even iut of the LCP it has more energy than Hornady 95 gr FTX, and matches standard 95 gr FMJ. Last two compared makarovs were 211 ft lbs for the ftx and 231 for the fmj.
Then makarov also has 263, 279, and 342 ft lbs listed for some ammos. They are all with 3.9” test barrel. The Underwood +p ammo from the 2.75” LCP is usually about 228 ft lbs. The Cheetah 80x is 3.9” barrel as well. Internal pressure for Makarov is 23,500 psi. For .380 acp it is 21,500. Case capacity 12.8 grains of powder for Makarov vs 11.8 grains of powder for .380 acp.
They are literally the same cartridge 97%. The Cheetah 80x would hit around 300 ft lbs energy with +p Underwood. Thats like 86% of the power of 9mm from a 4.65” barrel
EDIT: OH WOW there’s a .380 testing at 337 and 309 ft lbs from a 3.75” barrel
I carry a Sig P365 in 380 with Sig V Crown ammo.
It's easy to carry. Rapid shots on target, and my wife can shoot it. I'm a believer in practice, training, then practicing, and then train some more. Pick an ammo you are confident in, and don't worry about what others think when it comes to what works for YOU. It's been said by many people, I've never met someone who wants to be shot with a 380.
I've pulled Hornady critical defense rounds from a phone book at the shooting range, and they have been the size of a dime when extracted.
Have always been a 9 fan own quiet a few .jest got diagnosed with Parkinson’s and have some weak now in left arm so now have a m@p shield 380ez 300 rounds of Armscor hollow points through it no issues. It is now my carry along with 2 extra magazines
Bless you in your fight against Parkinsons! Yup, the 380 works pretty doggone well.
9mm for self defense. Use factory Federal Punch not reloads as per self defense attorney. I do reload 9mm for practice ammo. This was great. Glad to see Gavin having you do videos you do an awesome job.
Carry a 43x with shield 15rd mags and red dot. Practice with it by shooting a ipsc match with it once a month to keep comfortable with it.
Competition sure helps build shooting skills!
I think 380 ACP gets snappier when you shrink the pistol down (like a Ruger LCP* or KelTec P3AT).
I have to pick up one of those heavier 380s.
Agree. This Bersa is just incredibly comfortable to shoot... At this point I don't even have a decent carry holster for it, but ya never know... Not sure I want to go to the 380, but perhaps someday.
Bersa thunder...Glock 42 and sig p238 all great choices
@@kevinrichardson8859
I own both the Bersa Thunder and Sig P238. I can confirm. Both are excellent options.
Bersa's are nice. I have a Combat 380. Very comfortable, light weight, and not that snappy since it's metallic. Bersa's are also affordable.
380’s are snappy unless you get into a larger frame and weight! I will stick with my 9mm ❤
As Guy hinted at one point, 875-900 fps seems to be an important threshold for .380 ACP defensive ammo. Above it, you tend to see fairly reliable expansion from modern self-defense bullets. Below it, it gets very difficult.
The Hornady 90gr XTP bullets are a good choice. They can deliver a good mix of penetration and expansion, leaning toward penetration (which is desirable in a lower power round like .380) - but again, it really helps if you can push them to 900 fps velocity.
Remember, too, that most people are carrying .380s with shorter barrels than the Bersa used for this test, so they will get somewhat lower velocity. Including a Ruger LCP (sub-3” barrel) in the mix here might have helped broaden out the applicability of the .380 data.
Might need to go back and rethink that .380 CFE Pistol load with a different powder, I’d say. It couldn’t break 850 fps even from a 3.5” gun. I wouldn’t expect the XTP to expand in that circumstance; it’ll just behave like a flat nose FMJ.
Hi Guy,
Great handgun comparison, I loved your video. Thank you.
I bought my Beretta 92FS September 2020, 9mm Luger chambering. I hand load my ammunition for this handgun. I love this handgun because every projectile type I hand loaded feeds without failure. I have used projectiles from Hornady 115 & 124 gn FMJ RN and 124 XTP. I have also used Sig Sauer 124 gn “V Crown” and the Speer 124 gn Gold dot JHP. I use the Hodgen’s CFE Pistol propellant. I don’t provide propellant charge mass to prevent legal problems. Great handgun based on my experience.
The Beretta is so reliable! Feeds, fires and ejects time after time just like it should. CFE Pistol is a mighty fine powder choice.
Thanks Guy!
The only malfunction I have experienced is the slide does not lock back after the last round is fired from the magazine. This also happens with factory ammunition (consistently). I’ve tried a harder grip and trying to keep my left hand support thumb away from the slide lock lever. The end result is about 30% slide lock back.
Also, I experience primer cratering on my hand loads and factory ammunition. I discovered that the bolt face, around the firing pin, has a small countersink machined into the bolt face. My 92FS was manufactured in Tennessee.
Beretta service, while under their 3 year warranty, was very bad. I was promised that a technician would call me back and never did. So I gave up on their technical support from Maryland.
@@ericabig3471 - that's sad to hear. I attended the Beretta Armorer's three-day class years ago - sent there by my Police Dept, but none of our Beretta's ever needed repair!
Thanks Guy!
What did your primers look like from your Beretta after being fired? Did you see primer cratering? Does the bolt face, around the firing pin, have a small countersink? Perhaps about a 0.005” radial distance from the firing pin outside diameter.
Sorry for bothering you with my bad experience, if it is bad. I’m trying to find out what is normal for Beretta 92FS fired cartridges relative to primer condition.
My 1987 Springfield M1A and 1944 M1 Garand rifles do not show any primer cratering. So when I saw this primer cratering on my new Beretta handgun fired primers I was very concerned.
I’m thinking it is normal now, but why would Beretta USA (TN) countersink the bolt face around the firing pin? Does’t make sense to me. That’s why I’m hoping you may have some insight of my concern.
Thank you in advance for your consideration!
My edc has evoled from a Taurus 38spcl to. Glock 26 back to a 38spcl (a Charter this time) to a Ruger lcr 22wmr that ive been carrying for the past couple 2-3yrs. Practice ammo is DIRT CHEAP and even my carry ammo (Speer GD) is cheap enough to plink with..
I have both but stopped carrying the .380 due to its age (didnt trust a 100yr old Savage with my life) even though it shoots well. Got a G2C and a Stance. for EDC now. Loading with Winchester 231 and a 115g HTP bullet.
Exceptional Comparison!
Thanks!
Well done. Excellent perspective and experience. I definitely prefer the 40 or 357 Sig and have for a couple decades. But the 9 ammo availability and affordability are hard to argue with. So I get 9mm barrels for my 40s and practice with 9 a good bit. I reload everything except 357 Sig. Thank you.
357 Sig is worth handloading, it does very well with Longshot powder. 1400 fps with a 124 gr bullet and a 4" barrel. Right up there with a 6" 357 magnum revolver.
Good detailed assessment of both, thank you. Subbed for more detailed info, especially on reloading!
I like my ruger lcp
Been reloading all these for years. I like unique for plinking loads particularly. I also load Bullseye with a light bullet for .45 acp or 9mm for target. When I carry, I use factory loaded ammo and have tried different ones through the years. For my .380 LCP, I use Winchester train & defend. For the .45 acp, Sierra's hp loads and for 9mm I use hornady critical defense. I personally prefer a full size 1911 in .45 acp or my PX9 in 9mm for home defense use. When Hunting, I tend to stick to my revolvers, the .45 Colt or .357 mag.
You and I choose a lot of the same cartridges for the same reasons. BTW, I have used both Unique and Bullseye a lot over the years.
@@guyminer3168 I bought a couple 4 pounders when it was cheap. Wish I'd done that on some other ones. Lol
Not carrying anything yet, thinking of getting the S&W Shield Plus in 30 Super carry.
I wish we could safely load the 380 ACP to a bit more pressure. Just enough to get the 90gr bullet up to 1100fps... in a 3.5" Barrel
If I knew now what I knew then I'd have a 380 pocket pistol instead of a 357
The 380's are so very easy to shoot well...
I think you meant, "If I knew then what I know now..."
I have a couple of 9mm pistols but I prefer the 40 S&W. The 9mm ammo today is pretty good but I started buying pistols almost 30 years ago and back then, the 40 was “it”. I’m not sure that I’d do it differently today though. The 40 is a proven performer in LE and Citizen involved shootings. It has a got a great balance of speed, weight, energy and recoil along with enough capacity to make it a top contender for self defense. It gives up a lot of ground to the 9mm due to its cost of practice ammo though. Choose what you’re comfortable with and practice until you can’t get it wrong. Wyatt Earp once said, “Fast is fine, but accuracy is final”.
The 40 is pretty doggone great, and it's covered in another of our videos!
@@guyminer3168
Thanks Guy, I’ll look for it! 👍
If you like the Beretta 92F-series, you’ll love the CZ 75 BD model even better.
I could never shoot the Beretta 92 platform worth jack, even though they’re quality pistols. Meanwhile I am lights out (for me) with the CZ75 platform. It’s subjective; grip angle probably makes a difference in that comparison
@@FMDad-dm5qo While I do like the Beretta 92 series as well as I own several, I’ll admit that their grip design has always been just to “fat.” …and I have very large “bear paw” hands to hold the gun. But you’re right, the grip and thickness of the CZ75’s are A+.
I carry every day, all day and I change my carry weapon and holster depending on the situation. I recently got a H&K P30SK 9mm and I love it. This has become my EDC with OWB holster since we have entered the colder weather and sweatshirts and coats are in season. I like the thicker hand grip and heaver pistol.
When working around the house, painting, cutting grass, washing cars/working on cars etc, I usually carry M&P Shield 9mm either IWB or OWB. IWB carry helps keep the pistol out of the way and prevents impacting movement. (I can say that both IWB and OWB carry are very comfortable with me and I don't feel them at all, for any pistol I carry)
When I am doing dog training and need my waist band for treat pouch and other tools, I use to carry my M&P Shield in an ankle holster. Because it takes more time and effort to access it, and the sweatshirt weather in season, I switched to my Bersa Thunder 380 ACP with a shoulder holster. I also carry my Walther PPK/S with a shoulder holster under my tee shirt, in warm weather.
Bottom line is I carry whatever is practical for the current situation and I feel comfortable with all.
with the SIG 365.....all bets are off.....if you can hit well with a 365 9mm.....there is NO place for a 380....unless it;s a backup (one of those that will jam....they all do, and if yours hasn't, you haven't used it much ).
Hodgdon Longshot is also called LOUDSHOT by many of us that use it. Also, for a defensive load, it has a lot of muzzle flash. I prefer a max load of CFE Pistol for 124gr 9mm.
CFE Pistol is a mighty fine powder choice for the 9mm and several other cartridges as well.
I took some 9mm handloads to the range once and had someone comment to me in the parking lot about the muzzle flash. The powder was Blue Dot. Great for performance and big on fire balls 💥💥💥
Most of the time I carry either a Beretta 85 or Beretta 84 with xtreme defense ammo. When I carry a 9 mm, its a CZ75D compact with sig v-crown 115 or 124. When I go to the range I shoot 9mm. I figure if I can do well with the 9mm then I can do well with the .380 and my targets show it.
That 1200 FPS value for Hornady TAP ammo? According to their website, that's coming out of a 24" barrel. I would expect much lower velocity out of a handgun. Or that their website has a typo. Either way, I find 1200 to be a very optimistic figure.
Love the Chanel and y'all are great but the Title should be 9mm+p vs .380. Why didn't you use .380+p? The results are now kinda moot as I'd say most people don't use +p ammo.
380+P isn't recognized by SAAMI, however 9mm+P is. The 380 handload I used was the most powerful 90 gr load listed by Hodgdon, the 9mm load I used was the most powerful 124 grain load listed by Hodgdon - and interestingly, not listed as a +P handload, it generated more velocity at lower pressure. That Longshot powder worked out great, once again.
Guy, Longshot is a great powder for a lot of pistol rounds. It’s one of my favorites. 👍👍
.380 +P exists even if SAAMI doesn't have a standard. And I agree, most people aren't using 9mm +P. I'd love to see a comparison between a standard 9mm and an Underwood XTP +P .380. Smaller concealed carry option while approaching 9mm power.
When doing the comparison, I'd like gel tests.
That's coming...
The question isn’t which is “better,” or even which is “more deadly.” With 9MM having double the muzzle energy of the .380, that’s a no-brainer. The real question is to ask whether the .380 is “good enough.”
Just as there is no “perfect” gun, there is no “perfect” round. More important, the “mouse gun” you have with you is infinitely better than the “wonder weapon” you left back in the gun safe. Let’s look at some compromises worth weighing:
- .380 pistols tend to be a lot smaller and lighter than 9MM pistols. Easier to carry, easier to conceal;
- With most shootings taking place at very modest ranges, “more power” isn’t that relevant;
- Only hits count. A .380 in the brain is far more effective than a canon round that misses;
- Ammunition design is a far more relevant factor that simple muzzle energy. A nicely mushroomed .380 hollow-point is more effective than an intact 9MM hardball; and,
- Be realistic in assessing your threat. Are you really likely to be facing an opponent far away and behind cover - or someone within grappling distance? Are you likely to be facing down a Chinese horde, or a single meth-head?
Again, range time is critical. Which specific pistol has given YOU the best aim? I have one .380 with which I easily qualify - and another that won’t let me get a head shot unless I stick it in someone’s mouth.
In between these two rounds (in power) is the venerable .38 Special. Don’t overlook the trusty revolver. Revolvers are still relevant, and are even better choices in certain situations.
As for each calibers’ suitability for concealed carry, I found a recent visit to a large gun shop quite illuminating. Let me explain . . .
I started carrying a .380 Bersa years ago. At the time, this gun was quite a bit smaller than the various 9MM offerings. Or, at least, smaller than other guns that offered a reasonable grip.
Today the contrast isn’t nearly as great. Both Sig and Glock have compact models with reasonably sized grips, yet their 9MM offering is quite similar to their .380 offering. (Just be sure both have single stack magazines when you compare).
Why my focus on grips? Because only hits count. I found my accuracy with the Bersa was quite a bit better than I had with various other guns - including a snub-nosed revolver with a nearly full sized grip. By contrast, I couldn’t hit anything farther away than contact distance with my tiny Kel-Tec .380.
Now . . . How will things compare with today’s offerings? Only time at the range will tell; look for a range that will rent you various pistols to try out. It was during such practice that I found the Sig model to feel considerably more “top heavy” than its’ Glock counterpart - a factor that will influence which I buy.
Were I to “start over,” would I still chose .380? Maybe not. .380 no longer has that size advantage I had found before. My choice would probably be decided by my accuracy between comparable pistols. As I said: Only hits count.
I have been loading 115gr XTP bullets for 9mm for 34 years now, since I was 21
Apparently you like them! :) 115 is a great choice for the 9mm.
nah, I'll keep my 45
Well, I'm kinda fond of my 45 1911 as well... :)
How about snub n, 38spl.
Check out our 38 & 357 video done about a month ago. There's also a written article on the UR website.
I use some questions to determine if a gun is good for self defense/conceal carry.
1. Does it shoot bullets reliably?
Yes.
Then yes, it is good for self defense.
Guy, if you like the Beretta 92 you should definitely try the Beretta M9A4
I think double action trigger is the best way to go with an auto
I find it hard to save $$ reloading 9mm for practice. (I’m not into using cast bullets for semi-autos.)
In contrast, reloading .380 ACP can easily save money.
Bulk 9mm factory ammo is still a good deal. You're right!
I carry a Glock 32c in 357Sig.
Cool cartridge!
With the price of 380 i will gladly buya micro size 9 every time.
•Price of your average 380 is so similar to an inexpensive 9
•380 ammo is the same price as 9
•what youre getting out of the end of the barrel is so different as far as impact is the only noticeable difference.
Its why i never understood the 380
Well, I typically carry a tiny 9mm, so we agree.
You’ve obviously never seen the hi-point 380 auto on sale online for $99 lol
@@brandoncantu195 no I haven't because I'm behind occupied territory in california. A 380 hi point cost 189.99 here at the least. A 9mm sccy cost about 230. I've never seen a 9 or 380 for less than about 200, with that being said, due to the cost of ammo with the extra 11% everyone is pretty much better off with a 9 here
Good job Guy❤❤
Thanks!
do you recomend a handload for the 7.62X25mm tokarev or the 9mm makarov
I've never handloaded for either of those cartridges.
im from a alternate time line where the USA military kept with the 1911 instead of the 92. We won WWIII single handly by the 1911. May god help you and your timeline without the 1911..
I don't know I still feel they 2011 is the better gun, sure not as classy but it is double stacked.
@@tylerrobbins8311and they feel like a 2x4 in my hands.
@@josephjulian2503 well sure but that is 8 extra rounds worth of discomfort.
Hell yeah, grandpa shot 300 people in Vietnam only with 2 magazines, come on
Recon Marines & D$lta Force know what’s up.
Probably my best takeaway from this shooting is Instinct. That said, What are the limits?:Just how far of a distance can a person actually instinctively shoot accurately? This may surprise you but I know a guy who can hit every shot inside two to three inches without sights and without looking from one foot out to two hundred yards. He is amazing! He uses triple F powder and lead projectiles. 👈🏻
380 ACP is much better than a 000 ACP
I live in the city and I'm no cop so no qualified immunity. Winter is ok for a 9 but summertime is perfect for the 380. Jury's convict shooters with good intentions everyday, so be careful where the bullets go.
830fps with 90gr is weak for 380. 950fps with a 3.5 inch barrel is rather normal not even +p. In general it looks to me like 380 is becoming more and more popular.
Correction: Some states are trying to ban factory standard capacity magazines. Don't use the nomenclature of your would-be oppressor.
Say it however you'd like - but it seems silly to go to jail over a magazine.
@@guyminer3168 words mean things
@@rogerwood5228 - yes they do. Seems silly to go to jail over a magazine.
@@guyminer3168 who said anything about going to jail? We're talking nomenclature and why words matter.
@@rogerwood5228 - we're on the same side - and I've taken in your wise counsel on this. Thank you.
Love Guy’s videos
Thanks!
🇺🇸
For everyone saying that 9mm is better for self defense:
Would you rather get shot with a 380 or a 9mm?
If you’re answer is neither then there you go.
If you chose one over the other then I think you have bigger things to resolve than choosing a caliber to defend yourself with.
9mm Browning Court
"court" ? you mean kurz (German) or in French its court. corto Italian.
@ the cartridge was designed by Saint Browning so I’ll stick with his native tongue. LONG LIVE THE REPUBLIC!!
@@charleshetrick3152 Ok but the language in this video and comments is English and there "court" has a different meaning.
@@Gieszkanne I’ll tell you what, I’ll edit the comment to capitalize the B and the C thusly indicating they represent a proper name and not a coloring process taking place in a judiciary setting.
Ok, there are a lot of videos on this subject. Why not it is a fun debate.
So here's my 2 cents.
9mm is prohibitively, and head and shoulders better option for 99% of people! Not even a contest.
Why? Not due to any ballistics or available platforms. But....
Cost of practice!
We all agree that nothing improves performance or effectiveness, more than practice, right?
Well then, it's 10 to 1 cost.
Dime bags to dollars.
You will be so much better with a gun you've fired 1000 times vs one you fired 100.
And whatever niche you need filled, there's a 9mm round/firearm combination.
Small and soft shooting for Granny , check. +P and hollow pointed to satisfy ballistics nerds, got that covered.
Sure, if you're some fat cat with money, no object. Go ahead and get that deep blue PPK with the fancy wood grips and PRACTICE.
Just remember your bodyguards will be carrying 9's
The 9mm makes all kinds of sense!
Damn & i thought 9mm was kinda a small caliber.
LOL! Biased from the getgo. A variety of 9mm pistols and only one 380 and a Bersa at that. Lots of detail on the 9mm loads, sketchy on the 380. His 9mm load has 399 ft lbs at the muzzle, great. A standard 357 commercial load is about 550. If power is everything, why settle for a 9?
My Sig P365 380 weighs about a pound and holds 10 + 1. In a Sneaky Pete holster even gun store and shooting range personnel are shocked to discover that there's a gun in there and it's a one hand draw and one hand shot.
I'll take it any day over a Kahr 9mm with near zero sights, an impossibly long and heavy DA only trigger and recoil that would knock the average shooter back into last week.
By the way, what is the minimum muzzle energy in ft-lbs for adequate self defense? On average, 4 people are killed every year in the US by air guns, so obviously, in some cases, less than 50 ft-lbs is adequate.
With ball ammo, bigger is better. 9mm gets competitve with expanding bullets. And our purpose is not to kill, but to stop an attacker.
LMFAO
.380 costs more than 9mm
.380 is harder to find than 9mm
.380 doesn’t offer as many loads
.380 aren’t much smaller than 9mm
.380 aren’t much lighter than 9mm
What exactly DOES it do? Gives its fanboys a turd to keep polishing.
The only reason to carry .380 over 9mm is if 9mm is prohibited in your country or you ALREADY own a .380 and can’t afford another gun.
Well I typically carry a compact 9mm, so we agree. But some folks surely do like the 380 and it's a good cartridge.
The big difference is the pressure.
9+p almost double 380, and hot 10mm almost double the +p. My EDC is the 10mm.
Move to a free state and fight every chance you get. This is more important than any caliber choice.
Let's persevere and continue the effort to make EVERY state "free" know for sure there are many many patriots who will always REMAIN free!!! 🇺🇸 🏆
Not moving. Staying here and fighting.
@@guyminer3168 👍 ALWAYS FIGHT!!! NEVER EVER GIVE IN...EVER!!!
@@kevinrichardson8859 - roger that!
@@kevinrichardson8859 I think there are a few that are lost cause but I applaud everyone who stays and fights. Bravo.
There's no reason for this test because we already know the 380 sucks when it comes to stopping power. The 9mm is no great shakes either, being just a 50% stopper.
I looked at it as more of a comparison, why some folks might prefer one over the other.
In all truthfulness the 380 statistically has a comparable or better stopping power average for less shots than 9mm
Apples to cherries! Why did you use the plus p? You really screwed your comparison.
The handloads were both standard loads, the 9mm was not a +P load, yet it hit 1,200 fps. The +P loads I compared were factory figures.
Glock is a spongy version of 1911 glad you say it cuz people get so mad when I say that but that half why people like it n won’t admit if
Uhh, what? Respectfully, NOOOO.
@@warbuzzard7167 no it’s not spongy?
+P really, how is that a real comparison.
The handloads I compared were standard loads, and hit 1,200 fps in the 9mm. Those were not +P loads. I only used +P to show what the 9mm can do in factory ammo. SAAMI doesn't yet recognize a 380+P.
one mag to prove its reliability? ok then
That mag got my attention. Put thousands more rounds through Beretta 92's while in the Marines, and I don't remember a single malfunction.
Way too much useless information.
9mm is stronger than 380 so why use 9mm +p
Interesting to note that both handloads I showed were the maximum listed by Hodgdon, and that 1,200 fps 9mm load is shown by Hodgdon as fast or faster than their +P loads but without +P pressure. SAAMI doesn't recognize a 380+P load, or I'd have tried that too. So, neither handload was a +P load, just maximum according to Hodgdon, with pressures shown in their load data.
I don't think an attacker is going to stand there and take a faceful of .380.👊🏾🪖🇺🇸✝️
Hi, I follow your UA-cam channel and would like to make a request. For the wrong reasons, today we have this "new" caliber in Brazil, officially launched by Taurus here last week.
According to information from specialized personnel here in Brazil who have already analyzed the published technical characteristics, they describe it as a commercial version of the reloaded 9mm ballistic characteristics, commonly used in IPSC competitions.
It would be great if you, in contact with your supporters, and Taurus get access to both the "new" ammunition and pistol models that suit it for an evaluation.
I honestly believe that this caliber could gain worldwide acceptance for a specific audience that has difficulties with the 9mm but wants something more than the .380.
Kind regards.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_TPC