Picard putting a secret safety protocol switch next to a phaser behind the bar should have won the show a point not lost one. It was his personal program
I agree. Guinan always kept a weapon under the bar, whether it was a shotgun or a phaser. It was a good call back to that. Also given the amount of times Picard has had to throw down in a holodeck, especially in Star Trek VIII I'd keep a damn phaser and safety switch too.
100% agree. It immediately made me think of First Contact and Picard using "The Big Goodbye" with the safety protocols disabled to shoot the Borg drones with the tommy gun. He explained how hologram bullets can kill without the safeties on right away and this scene was a nice nod to that IMO.
I think that Crusher doing the autopsy of the Changeling posing as Sidney and, for the record, asking the real Sidney to say this isn't her; and Sidney throwing up, with Dr. Crusher in a deadpan voice saying: "For the record, Ensign LaForge has indicated yes" needs an upward vote. It cracked me up.😂😂😂😂
Between Gates McFadden's "Toughen up, Ensign, you wouldn't believe the shite I've seen" side-eye, and her resting "Oh, NOW I remember why I ghosted you jerks for twenty-five years" face, Beverley Crusher deserves her own Emmy.
Ro saved everyone on the Titan. She could have turned back to the Titan but realized she would have just blown them up. There was a lot more to that then Shaws character progression
@@charlesbailey7839 the transferred crew is in no more danger than the entire rest of Starfleet, certainly less danger than the crew remaining on the now hunted Titan.
@@charlesbailey7839 she didn’t know whether anyone left on the titan was a changeling, just that Picard and crew needed the best chance of being rid of them. Also yes, Ro rammed into the Intrepid’s nacelle, knocking out their ability to chase the Titan at warp.
Ro deliberately taking out the warp nacel was a huge gesture. Knowing she was trapped in the shuttle with no time, instead of just curling up in a ball or giving a long speech before being blown up, she proactively said "You're going to choke on my bones" and kept the changlings from being able to follow Picard and company into warp, giving them a reprieve. As a character: it gave her agency to change the terms of her death. It fit in with the bravery and integrity of her character that Picard once saw in her. It showed that she was done taking chances with the changlings. She knew it was only a matter of time before she was replaced and leaving without getting Jack Crusher was probably her death sentence on board her own ship. She trusted Picard and Riker would do the right thing and decided to make her death meaningful.
Exactly. Calling her fridged undermines everything she has done to stop the Changelings, up to and including making sure that her death gave Picard a chance to save the Federation. This was her fight LONG before it was Picard's--she got to finally make peace with a painful part of her past and ensure that her mission went on.
as far as i remember, Michelle Forbes had no inclination to want to revisit Ro Larren as a character. So to get so much from her as an actress is this episode was a gift, not a waste. she delivers the data chip, explains the exact nature of the threat, saves Jack from the security, shows Picard how much his pride has cost him over the years. And then sacrifices herself to enable them to get away. Fridged? Na. I loved this episode of Picard as much as i have like any episode of any series, for years. excited for the reminder.
Many months ago, Matalas stated that they "got someone that they didn't think they could get" and I hoped then, and am convinced now, that he was referring to Michelle Forbes
The role of Kira Nerys on DS9 was originally written as Ro Laren in the early DS9 documentation, with some fairly detailed descriptions of her TNG character arc up to season 6. Michelle Forbes turned it down. When I saw the two security officers plant the bomb and beam off, I immediately assumed that Mattalas had convinced the wonderful Ms. Forbes that it would be one episode to wrap up Ro's story, that it would be damned compelling, and then it would be done. So yes, I definitely understand the "fridging" argument in the overall scheme of fictional narratives, and especially genre fiction, but if you're going to tiptoe that line, do it well. And they did it really, really well.
Plus we need to consider Michelle Forbes as an actor, who is famous for never committing to a TV role long-term. Without question she would have come back to this role after 30 years to give her a final and heroic resolution. This is the furthest thing from fridging. Seàn, you whiffed this one hard.
@@ACGuy1 Yes, it was a Harrison Ford as Han Solo in Star Wars moment I'm sure. As sad as I was to see her go, I felt it was better and more appropriately wrapped up than what they did to poor Hugh.
Wow, you couldn't be more wrong regarding Ro ... Her death was memorable and truly heroic. She revealed to the crew all her secret findings within the earring, told Picard what is going on with Starfleet, then sacrificed herself to cripple the enemy ship so they had a chance to keep fighting this invasion ... AND she had the truly emotional face to face with Picard that I've waited decades to see. It was an incredible cameo ... and it's amazing that they got Forbes at all! ... Normally 99% of calls from ST productions end with her agent saying "No" ... You got this SO wrong ... surprising.
I agree about her participation. She left DS9 before the final season for a reason. She probably said yes to this only if they kill her off for good this time, and be only one show. So they did her justice and gave her an honorable and heroic ending. A thumbs up for that one.
@silverfoxeater You're lacking insight. As many have said ... Michelle Forbes NEVER wanted to return to the part. She refused DS9, She possibly refused Voyager. She almost refused her final episode on TNG ... She has never had any strong feelings for the character and never wanted to be tied to long running sci-fi shows .... How do you 'waste potential' when the most important aspect of that potential refuses to do it? ... ST producers KNEW what they had with Ro, they tried to attach her to every show they made! Please wake up.
@@aerospaceguy4639 She really was. And due to being revealed as Worf's secret contact, Ro basically uncovered this entire conspiracy! ... Ro Laren will be remembered as a Starfleet legend and hero, and as a longterm huge fan of the character, I'm very happy with that. Plus she and Picard had the moment together that I hoped to see for so long.
@silverfoxeater Except it's not a cameo. Alfred Hitchcock or Tarantino appearing for a 5 second glimpse is a camero. A character appearing for a significant part of an episode with full dialogue and the story pivoting around that character is not. Go look up "cameo", and shut your yap.
To be fair, Ro's death wasn't just to make the captain realize, it also took out the Intrepid's warp drive, and allowed the Titan to escape. She gave them a chance to run.
I completely agree. I was sad to see her go after just showing back up, but the time we had with her was beautiful, and from a story standpoint this gave us as viewers a serious sense of risk. I hope we get a few more surprises like this over the next five episodes.
I thought a lot of it was just to tug heart string. We all love Ro and seeing her die sucked. I'm sad to see her go but this episode was amazing and so was she. I did not really feel like it was just done to help a male along. I think that pov is a cheap easy shot.
Ensign Ro was in 8 out of 178 episodes of TNG. That is 4.49438202% of the episodes, less than 1/20th of the entire television series. That is not including the four films that were made and her overall importance to the show is there, just not as much as some feel it. Her sacrifice gave the Titan the opportunity to escape and not be pursued for some time while the Intrepid makes repairs. Her sacrifice made me think of her character in a completely different light, I now greatly like her character arch through the show and find your minuses for the episode to be somewhat infantile. I get it, one of your favorite characters is dead and you wanted more from her story, I'm sure Tasha Yar fans feel the same way.
I am so surprised there was no mention of how menacing the USS Intrepid looked after Ro's sacrifice when it turned towards USS Titan while powering up its weapons. I don't think a Starfleet ship has ever looked so menacing on screen before. The lighting choices on that was perfect.
Completely disagree with the idea that Ro's death was to convince a male character to see sense... She moved the Titan's crew, made ammends with picard and accepted her death, she also crippled the intrepid. Her death was to do what she saw was right, I don't think Shaw played any part in the decision making, with or without the 4th wall.... The moment she appeared, I didn't think she was going to be around for more than one episode... She sacrified herself so picard could have a chance and I think that was a fitting end for her character.....
Fridging doesn't mean SHE decided to sacrifice herself to convince a male character. She probably had no idea it would have that effect. It means that the WRITERS kill off a woman just to stir a man to action. They have no real agency, they die merely to serve the story. I'm unconvinced that this is a true fridge, tho I see the argument for it. Either way though, her decision making process is irrelevant to whether it was or not.
Agreed but I would say she sacrificed herself so that the Titan could get away with those who could carry on her work to save Starfleet and everyone who is not a changeling from the changelings. She didn't die for Shaw, who wasn't even convinced by it anyway, or Picard, who was already convinced and trying to leave, or any one person, she died so that others could carry on and complete the good and necessary work she started and believed in...I would call that a heroic end. I found it a very fitting and moving end for this character that I too have been waiting decades to see return. Up.
Agreed. It's obvious to me she serves as the daughter figure that was never fully realized until she was gone and serves to push Picard toward building his relationship with Jack. It was not fridge service to convince Shaw something was up.
Not gonna lie i hated the first two episodes of this season. They felt like the same grim and dark crap of the first two seasons. But this season has gotten steadily better with each episode. The story has gotten way more interesting as it's progressed. This season is what season 1 of Picard should have been.
Ro wasn’t wasted. They are jamming a lot of people into this season. Don’t think they could have given her more than one. Lore and Moriarty to come in the last 5. Geordi as well. All that said, it gave her a heroic end. A redemption arc. I loved it.
Not to mentioned that Ro is the one who recruited Worf and figured out the channeling plot. She’s the backbone to saving Starfleet from the threat. It’s as strong a closing act as possible, even if tragically short.
It's even possible she may have a cameo or two as a hologram on the data chip she left Picard. I was really excited for a moment when I thought that the Titan would maybe be able to rescue her and they all go forward together. Alas, that would have put too many compelling characters in a series that really needs to be pulling things together and not distracting us with subplots. Hell, we still don't know what Vadic's deal is.
Also: Maybe MF didn’t want to do more than 1 or couldn’t. We don’t even know she’s really dead. She didn’t want to do a long run on DS9 or Battlestar either! Don’t accuse the writers of sexism when there could be a number of perfectly valid reasons why she is only there in one episode. Down!
Having Ro back made this the best episode of Picard I have seen to date. Her and Picard finally had the closure we all wanted. Picard finally understood who Ro is and why she did what she did all those years ago. Beyond that, however, she sacrificed herself in the ultimate act to help them all escape, pass on all her intel, and probably save the entire Federation which is what Picard finally saw in Ro before she died--that it was never duty, but conviction and honour that drove her to always do what she knew to be right! Loved it! I think this guy misunderstood the depth of Ro's death here. I would have loved to see more of her, but I do think there was the weight for Picard and closure of their storyline in her actions there; she probably did more to save the federation in her actions than anyone. They need to bring Janeway in at some point!
Ro death was the perfect closure to her story arch, she died fighting something she believed in. To think they did this just to make a female character dies to convince a male character does not make any sense!
This being the final season of Picard, I legitimately thought Worf had died. I had to pause the show for about 10 minutes to calm myself down, only to see him come back to life almost immediately. I love this rollercoaster game of emotions this show plays with me.
When Ro Laren showed up I don't think I've experienced a more unexpected moment in television ever. The number of joyful expletives that left my mouth that started with "Holy" and "What the" was uncountable. Also, no body, no death.
Totally agreee. I for one choose to accept she somehow got away. I mean Shax survived an explosion and came back misteriously. Maybe Sisko is responsible for saving them both?
Considering how quickly they did away with Icheb and Maddox in Season 1, I think Ro's entry and exit from this episode was actually pretty good. She wen't out like a bloody hero, sacrificed herself so the others could get away. I wish we could have more of her, but this also feels so fitting for her. She died for a cause she believed in. That sounds like Ro Laren to a T.
@John Dall of course not but Ichebs seemed cruel and does take something away from Voyager. And it was just done in a small scene as part of Sevens story with villian of the week.And in first season killed Maddox,Hugh and Icheb. Seemed overkill to me. Pun probably intended 🤣
The inclusion of Ro was amazing. Only the original actress could do the part justice. I am amazed she came back. From what I had read, she had no interest in the role ever again and that's why she wasn't seen again. Having her in a single episode gives volumes to what is happening. It's also a terrific foil for Picard's feelings for his son, as it was obvious Picard sort of viewed her as his own.
Very much agree she only came back for the cameo knowing her character was going to get killed off. We'll know more when the BTS stuff comes out later.
I don't think Michelle Forbes said she wasn't interested in returning to Ro. She just didn't want a contract role. She's mostly interested in being a charcter actress. After all, shw returned in TNG'S final season after being missing for 18 months.
Many months ago, Matalas stated that they "got someone that they didn't think they could get" and I immediately hoped upon hope that he was referring to Michelle Forbes, and I'm sure now that's who he was referring to. What a score!!
For the death of Ro, it’s possible the actor would only reprise the role if they killed her off, so that has to be considered. And I don’t think her death is what convinces Shaw; it’s when the Intrepid charges weapons and locks them on that he finally acquiesces that something is up. As for Jack, I think he is somehow connected to the Borg. He’s not just the son of Picard, he’s also the son of Locutus.
@@joerider3769 They turned Picard into a robot at the end of S1. In regards to Jack. Well maybe some inactive nanoprobes were passed on as well. But why did Beverly not get "infected"? Or any other love intrest of Picard for that matter? If that is what happened. And if it applyes to Picard, what about every other ex Borg like Seven? Tuvok, Belana and other Starfleet personal that got infected by nanoprobes must have the same problem.
@ShadowwingMD Brv and Jean Luc got buu- zy before Picard was a AI. And you ask some interesting questions! A new form of assimilation that the Borg figured afyer getting Beaton so many times by The Federation?
For fans who remember watching the TNG episode “Preemptive Strike” around 29 years ago, this episode of Picard closes that loose thread that was dangling for much of our lives. I genuinely feel relief after watching this episode. That’s amazing. Bravo to everyone who worked on Star Trek: Picard, and keep on going Trek Culture; ups and downs are great.
Hugh....Hugh....was he that kid with Rapheala I feel like Hugh was a Borg in TNG but I don't recall him in Picard....anyway...Some Hugh died at some point and it didn't phase me at all as I dont even remember him. Ensign Roe dieing when we just got her back, thats another matter.
Or was he on the cube that the romulans had....eh maybe guess I have to go back and watch season 1....though seasons 1 and 2 so far have not held a candle to season 3
When Beverly asked Jack how he knew the four Changelings he killed were Changelings, and he said he didn't... the look on her face, displaying shock, concern, and a little fear, that look caused the hair on the back of my neck to stand up.
Not sure Moriarty is a particular sophisticated AI. The Doctor is probably more sophisticated given the issues they had when he expanded his routines too much. I would guess it's probably Lore as he would be considerably more sophisticated and very much has flaws.
That being said, Moriarty was programmed to defeat Data and outwit him to be an actual challenge for him. So maybe he has something to do with getting into Daystrom if Lore is the Daystrom AI.
Thu Ro/Picard holodeck scene is probably the best scene in Trek for 20+ years. Both actors are great and I completely bought everything that happened. Its great to see Michelle again, she was great in True Blood and Battlestar.
When Beverly discovers the changes in the changlings during the autopsy, it made me think of what Sisko's dad said in ds9s episode paradise lost. How if he was a really good changling, he would suck the blood out of a person and spit it out on command during a test. Apparently, they've figured that out.
Didn't Odo have internal organs when the Founders punished him by making him human? Perhaps the Changlings have learned to mimic what they did to Odo but not make it permanent. Also perfected it more since Dr Bashir could still tell Odo wasn't exactly human though tests during that time he was a solid.
@@TheAtkey This is the most logical explanation. The fact they could essentially make Odo human means changelings have the capacity for even greater change in their forms. If they essentially "punish" themselves to a somewhat lesser degree, then they could presumably bypass low level checks.
I don't think Ro's death was wasted at all. She didn't sacrifice herself for no reason, she did it to take out the Intrepid's warp capability so that Picard, who she specifically came to get help from, was able to escape. It wasn't done just to convince Shaw of the threat, that was just a bonus that might help him trust Picard more himself later on. She knew that if there was one person in all of Starfleet she believed could help and wouldn't back down, it would be Picard, despite their past she was willing to meet him him to get his help, after first figuring out whether they could trust each other. At some point she realizes that she will be killed for asking too many questions and entrusts him with everything she's learned so far. God knows what both Ro and Picard have both thought of each other over the decades, replaying events, imagining how things could've been different, yet in the end she was willing to come to him for help, trust that he won't betray her, give him information to help him find a solution, and then sacrifice herself to make sure he escapes with it. Definately sad to see her go, but not a waste at all. I considered it very heroic and an amazing way to reintroduce and say goodbye to the character.
Yeah, Ro's a great character, but realistically we aren't going to be able to get too many more outings for any of these characters, and bringing her back for more than a bit part would be very unlikely. This was a perfect send-off for her.
@@aric3385 One thing I always hated Picard for was the way he treated Ro in her final episode of TNG. She all but begged him to take her off her assignment because she was conflicted and knew she would probably side with the Maquis but didn't want to betray him. So to see him so angry at her in this episode make that all come flooding back. He was mad at her because she betrayed her commanding officer, the great Jean Luc Picard and left paradise (Sisko Anyone?). She was mad at him because he's the closest thing she had to a father figure who forced her into a horrible position, refused to listen to her when she asked for help, and condemned her for her decision ever since. ...sorry Picard, no sympathy for you on this one. Hated your decision then, hate it more now... but loved how he's now 'lost' at not knowing who he meant to her, and her to him, with no way to find out by the episodes end. If she had survived this probably would have been explored at some point, but I love how this season is dealing with a lot of what it's and having to deal with simply not knowing something you wish you did.
I think she died nobably. I do think she should have left more of a clue that her whole investigation was in her earring. If Picard didnt' tell Riker and Riker figuring it out Picard would have possibly never known.
Ro might not be gone completely. Remember, her image didn't cut out as the shuttle exploded. We saw "Connection Lost" several moments before the shuttle exploded into the nacelle. Plenty of time for her to beam off and onto the Intrepid 😉
Not to mention her comment about possibly overcoming the transport inhibitor "when they got closer" She could've beamed aboard the intrepid before the explosion
Just watched this week's picard. The best season of New Trek gets better with every episode. Seeing Ro again was brilliant, which made her death all the more heartbreaking. Can't wait to see what happens next.
The reason season 3 is better is because Alex Kurtzman has zero input on that series. He is a executive producer in name only. Better enjoy this iteration of Kurtzman era Trek because from what I'm hearing the new suits at Paramount will phase away from this current era Trek. SNW Prodigy and Lower Decks will fulfill their contracts. Rumor also has It that Paramount will let Trek cool off for a bit then in 2026 possibly rebooting it in time for the 60th year anniversary of Star Trek possibly resetting it In a Continuity in line right after The events of TNG. It's all Rumor. But Picard seems to lends credence to this with the homages of past Trek series.
Ro’s return serves many purposes for the story, but it’s also a subtle parallel to Picard’s relationship with Jack that’s only just begun. The scene where Picard suggests Jack consider joining starfleet comes to mind.
Good point. I think when Picard says "I didn't even realize what she meant to me," he meant he saw her as a daughter. Combined with the scene where Jack heard him say "Starfleet is the only family I've ever needed" it's a symbolic transition to Picard losing his old "family" to accept his new one.
@@dustinwulf8481 Picard season 3 really has Picard (and the audience) questioning what makes the man (beliefs, hopes and regrets) that we thought we had tuned in to watch a show about.
It's a blink-and-you-miss-it moment, but in the scene where Worf accesses the computer to display the names of Morn, Krinn, Brunt, and Okona, there is another screen just preceeding that one, showing the names Larell of Rehnia, Sneed, and T'Luca. We know of the latter two from this season, but Larell is another DS9 callback -- as shown in the episode "Who Mourns For Morn," she was part of a gang of thieves (including Morn) who pulled off a substantial latinum heist in 2365, only to be betrayed by Morn, who escaped and kept the latinum for himself; years later, after Morn supposedly died, she arrived on DS9 to try to recover the stolen loot...
The fact that Captain Shaw is so easy to hate but you know where's he coming from makes him pretty great as a character. But dude... Ro's return caught me off guard! It took me a minute to recognize who this was but once it connected, my jaw dropped. It's a pheromonal return and a heartbreaking end with a bittersweet ending. This season of Picard is something else!
I actually squeed when she appeared on the screen...Ro has always been a favorite of mine...would I like to have been able to more of her badassery? Absolutely! Still, while I am broken-hearted with Ro’s death, it was true to her character. LLAP 🖖🏻
Ro's role wasn't small, she enabled them to get away, got Shaw on board with the team, gave them intelligence and ultimately brought the entire team back together. It was perfect IMO.
Totally agree. Think the guy that does this YT is way off base. Considering she only wanted to be in one episode, it was a perfect send-off. Love Michelle Forbes!
I love Mr Ferrick. But I really don't get this down. She went into the Intrepid warp drive so they can get away. If they have a warp drive they just follow them and destroy them. The Intrepid is clearly a more powerful ship and armed to the teeth. It is a Starfleet security/intelligence vessel and most of the Titan crew is aboard. She knows/hopes Picard is going to find Worf and off they go. She died for a cause - just like she would have done with maquis. But this time it was FOR Starfleet. And Picard gets her. It was perfection
I had goosebumps so many times watching this episode. It was insanely good. The writing is phenomenal - look what happens when writing is actually by a fan and has seen the shows.
Matalas is not a writer, he's the show runner, which makes it even better b/c he has full control. By this time in S 1 and 2 I was like "wow all these subplots are dragging this show down." Not S3. Gets better every week. Kudos to Matala and his writers.
Yep, the writers are certainly fans. As is the showrunner, Terry Matalas. Plus, Matalas worked on Voyager, DS9, and Enterprise back in the day. He knows and loves ST and the lore.
Watching Ups and Downs is like having a pint with an old friend and just letting them go on about something they're passionate about, and you just smile and nod, but not in a bad way, because it makes you happy to know there is something in their life that brings them so much joy.
Lovin this season....best Trek I've seen for years. Loved seeing Ro's return. The reconciliation with Picard and the passing of the data chip, for me, made her death emotional and heroic.
I am loving this season. Bringing Ro back to finally (after 30 years) face Picard and brilliantly settle their differences was a high point for me. Since this is the last season (?), there might not be enough time to develop Ro's character further. She died a hero's death, or an honorable one, as Worf would say. Bravo!
Best season of Star Trek in 30 years, and I love Strange New Worlds. I’ve seen the films in the theater since ST III and bar none, nothing has made me happier.
Nice catch, Ellie. As I watched that scene I said to myself "That'll be on Sean's list, surely". As for Ro, it was a massive emotional moment seeing her return. Commander Ro, of Starfleet intelligence. I got the distinct impression from the first moment in the Observation Lounge that she knew she was on her last mission. Her entire mission was to make sure she could trust Jean-Luc, mitigate changeling risks to him and the Titan as much as she could, and convince him to carry on her investigation. Her death still came as a shock, and ripped my heart out because I have wanted to see her back for 30 years, but for me, Ro has always been about doing what she thinks is right. Believing in her cause, and being ready to die for her cause. Whether or not she believes in Starfleet (and perhaps the Federation), she believes in the Bajoran people, and that's why she sought out Picard. He's outside the loop, and she knows him. Her superiors, etc, were all compromised, which means she knew she'd been made. Yes they'd let her get to the Titan, to Picard, but they were never going to let her return. She knew it... that's why she reconciled with Picard, and covertly gave him her data. Also, I'm not 100% convinced as to whether I would count her out yet, after-all, she was Starfleet Advanced Tactical Training graduate by the episode "Pre-emptive Strike", a member of the Maquis, and then Starfleet Intelligence. She knows how to be covert, and guerrilla tactics. Plus, she was very close to the Intrepid when the shuttle exploded, and Seven did say if she was closer to the Titan she could have beamed Ro off the shuttle... just saying...
Ro was recruited directly from prison by Starfleet Intelligence. Picard would not have been notified or know of this. She also wasn't "Fridged" - her sacrifice allowed the Titan to escape without them having to fire on another Federation starship and causing casualties on both sides.
I think Jack could be inhabited by a Pah-Wraith. We once saw Jake have the same red eyes while being possessed by one, and it would kind of make sense for the rogue changelings to partner up with them to destabilise or take over the wormhole
My thoughts exactly. SPOILER: Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if, as a final surprise guest character, we'd get to have *_Sisko._* Which may or may not pave the way for a potential 25th-century ST show with DS9 characters in it.
I think Jack is infected with changelings that has taken on the properties of a parasite. They are working together to take over the host and control it which is what parasites do.
I don’t think it was fridging a character, I think killing her had a much more profound effect, leaving you wanting more or leaving you impacted by the senseless death
It’s to the credit of Michelle Forbes immense talent that you didn’t NEED 5 episodes to develop Ro. We were lucky she returned and the brief window of opportunity for her to make the connection with Picard, convince him of the existing threat and, ultimately, to “be seen” by him is the epitome of great drama and storytelling. The tragedy of her loss is so much more poignant because they didn’t HAVE more time. I think you completely missed the point- there is no wasted potential. The character fulfilled her arc- it just wasn’t the arc you wanted.
Really enjoying this season. Loved seeing Ro back but I understand her death. It reinforced how deadly the situation has become. All I need is a cameo from Sisko.
High tides raise all ships - I feel the Picard series has really also been a showcase for showing how far in their craft Patrick Stewart's former castmates have come as well. The writing has evolved to better serve the actors, as well. All around, it's taken this long to really get the excellence we knew was there
God damn, this season just keeps getting better and better. Honestly, for me, it makes the first two seasons worth it, this is why we muddle through bad Star Trek, to get to the good stuff. And I think I speak for everyone here when I say we need a Worf-Raffi show. Edit: Man, for someone who has been saying "no body, no death" for 30 years, Sean really gave in with that shuttle explosion. No body, no death! Ro is knocking around on the Intrepid gathering trustworthy Titan crewmembers to overpower and take the ship and go back to help Picard.
I don't consider Picard S1 and S2 as bad, just bloated with too many confusing subplots--too much going on for 10 episodes. And I actually like Disco S2 when Pike took the helm, and SNW has terrific potential to deliver. There is no bad Star Trek. Just some Trek better than the others.
Theory: Transporters used to integrate alien(s), Goo people and or bug critters from "Conspiracy", into human form. That's why the transporter operator in ep. 1 or 2 was a shapeshifter.
It's still weird that all the non-Changelings in the fleet are just going along with it. Again, I'm going to presume "entire fleet" is just hyperbole until proven otherwise.
I gasped when I saw Ro and I cried when she died. I even cried a bit when her earring had data within it. didn’t expect that reaction ! I think her death was to show show us that Starfleet was compromised and the danger was bigger than them and their 30 years. What an episode ! Loved it. It got me in the feels as I was very young when she went to the Marquis and in my thinking she has betrayed us all and then she does this all these years later. What a great performance.
I think “entire fleet” was probably a bit hyperbolic and a quick way to say it’d be a major target. Like a Super Bowl stadiums worth of people, like everyone will be there.
I don't think they wasted Ro, i think they are bringing lots of old characters into the story, Ro did her part and told Picard what he needs to do next and yes it is sad that she is dead but that's what they wanted from her in this episode. I have been wondering who they are bringing back next, we know about Moriarty and Lore but they didn't give any warning about Ro and there must be more unknown characters coming back at some point, i hope they will bring back Sela the half-Romulan daughter of Tasha Yar, she might even be the big bad girl behind all of it Also no i don't think Jack is a changeling, yes something odd appended to him and he went all Jason Bourne on 4 officers/changelings but its more then just being a changeling, something else is calling to him
Janeway will appear eventually in live-action. Kate Mulgrew can still act and she's doing voice-over for Prodigy, so why not. If the titan is damaged and needs a place to repair, what safer place can there be than a Bajoran space station, where Worf was XO. I want to see DS9 again, along with Kira, Quark, Bashir, and Nog. Of course, if Bajor is in the Federation and off-limits, then the other alternative, is to go to Cardassia where a certain tailor at this point is the elected leader of Cardassia, yes Garek would also fit into this kind of intrigue-based story and quite frankly he'd be up for some spy business again versus dealing with bureaucracy.
@@time391 I think we're going to get Geordi, his younger daughter, and the fleet museum as where they run to ground to get repaired. I mean...he's the best engineer out there (outside of arguably Miles O'Brien, who may be working for him), and he is in command of a station dedicated to restoring and maintaining old Starfleet ships. If they need someone to fix up the Titan, and maybe "downgrade" her with some legacy systems that won't be so easy for the infiltrators to hack, where better to go? Who would expect them to run to a museum rather than an active starbase? (Crusher obviously used the Myriad codec on the system connected to the old communicators for a reason, rather than sending a message via more normal channels.)
I am really hoping that as well. A continuation of this prime timeline and not more prequels. If they were going to follow the adventures of another ship and crew, Shaw and the Titan would be my choice.
I agree, i felt that there was a drop off in the middle of season two where everything felt like fillers. Season three does not feel like that. I been watching every episode since season 1. This is how i felt about season 2 "I am going to watch this in hopes that the season will start to pick up." The way i felt about season 3, wow, this is getting good and cant wait to see what is coming next. In season three i legit paused the episode for a "OH WOW"
another cetacean observation i feel was when shaw ordered the shields to be raised , the screen graphic of the shields coming online was VERY reminicent of the same graphic from wrath of khan.
Just wish the prop master knew that each Bajoran's religious earring is unique to them (especially those made during the Occupation). Using a Kira Nerys earring prop and passing it as a Ro Laren earring gets a Pah-Wraith level Down for me.
I was so upset that they gave us Ro back just to take her away upset me beyond belief. Ro's sacrifice was in her character though, she knew that she couldn't get back to the Titan without risking the crew, and she knew the Intrepid needed to be disabled. As Spock would say the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Or the one.
Another great episode this week. I almost fell off my chair when we saw Ro's face. Amazing. In an odd way this season makes me so mad because all I keep thinking is that in the right hands we could have had three great seasons of Picard. Sadly we only got this one. But I will take it and just pretend that seasons 1 and 2 never happen.
No body no death, you said so yourself. Hear me out: she couldn’t transport to the Titan because she was too far away, she was close to the Intrepid; she went to advance tactics school and in her last TNG appearance she did some pretty cool stuff with a shuttle. I know it’s a small chance but the door is cracked just a bit for her.
I swear genre fans are their own worst enemies. The story closed off a 30 year arc of pain for Picard. You saw him crushed and in the background the intrepid was burning. And you lot think it would be a good idea to undo all of that and make it not have really happened.
My head-cannon is that Ro was beamed aboard the Intrepid just before hitting the nacelle. Seven said they could possibly teleport her out if she was close enough. Also, Jack is possessed by a Pah-Wraith.
I am kinda wondering if Jack could be some kinda human/borg hybrid. And the visions he has been experiencing could be the borg side trying to emerge. Remember Picard was once a borg, and he could have had borg nanites that were passed along to Jack
I think there’s a possibility that Jack is possessed by a Pah wraith. Unlike Dukat in DS9 however - who willingly embraced his possession - Jack has some semblance of control over the Pah wraith and doesn’t even realise he’s been possessed. The red eyes especially reminded me a lot of when Dukat was possessed in the DS9 finale. Lots of references already to DS9 such as the changelings, the Maquis and Bajorans, with Ro being the latest - that surely can’t be an accident. Maybe the Changeling faction has allied with some dissident Pah Wraiths who escaped being imprisoned at the end of DS9, or are somehow communicating with Jack from their imprisonment? What if the item stolen from Daystrom was not Lore but an Orb, and Jack holds the key to releasing the rest of the Pah wraiths which is why Vadic is hunting him down? If the Pah wraiths are involved and Janeway’s getting a mention pretty much every episode, who’s up for a Picard/TNG crew team-up with Prophet Sisko and Janeway? I might just dissolve into a changeling puddle myself if that happened!! (But it most likely won’t).
I keep finding myself disagreeing with the downs a lot this season, and this episode is no exception. Ro's potential was not wasted here, in fact the opposite - I think it was finally realized even if it means she's dead, she didn't die for nothing. The holodeck safety thing makes perfect sense if you think back to the holodeck scene in First Contact, and remember the fact this program is Picard's own and based on Guinan's bar hence he disabled the safety protocol because he knew where the phaser was.
There was a nice visual homage to Star Trek II with the dots quickly extending around the ship on the "shields up" display at the end of the episode, I liked that little nod.
Up count is off. It was already at 4 when Séan gave an up (by saying "Oh wow!" instead of "up") for Shaw's turbo lift conversation and didn't go up until his latinum up for Ro's arrival.
Regarding them “wasting” and not doing more with Ro back in the day: as I recall the role that became Maj. Kira in DS9 was supposed to be Ro, but Forbes didn’t want to do it. Also, Shaw still wasn’t convinced even after her death. It was seeing the phaser arrays turn hot on the Intrepid that did it. Her appearance was more than a plot device. It was some great, and heroic, closure on an interesting character.
3 things: 1) Ro had a heroic ending, a good way to exit after 30 years. Some have to sacrifice themselves for others; 2) You said Jack wasn't being threatened by the 4 changelings....yet one is pointing a phaser at him??; 3) Jack might be a changeling...but his bizarre visions/fighting skills points to something else. I suspect he has had some kind of genetic enhancements or got Picard's Borg nanoparticles.
This was one of the best episodes of Star Trek I've ever seen. It was so good I was watching it with my neighbor & she doesn't watch Star Trek at all, but she was into it from beginning to end. I think it made her a fan.
Ro's death served a purpose much greater than just convincing Shaw. Her role and death in this episode was probably the most pivotal act of the series so far.
When I saw Ro my jaw dropped. My 1st question - after my shock subsided - was "How the hell was she back in Starfleet?" and thankfully Picard asked the same question. I was afraid they'd handwaive it but nah, these guys were deep into the lore. Good stuff.
Missed opportunity to mention (Krinn) Kirk Acevedo considers him and (Sneed) Aaron Stanford to be brothers who were scavengers in District 7. Kirk Acevedo was in 12 Monkeys as Ramse who with Aaron Stanford (James Cole) were scavengers and considers each other as brothers, joined Deacon’s (Todd Stashwick) gang of survivors called The West VII.
Ok I don't think the safety off button should be a down. As the program is Picard's, so it would have his preferences. In the context of First Contact movie and PIcard's use of the holodeck against the Borg, having that as his fingertips could be a thing he has in his personal prefs.
Right from the episode directly into Ups & Downs, as it is the logical course of action. You forgot the Wrath of Khan shield dots that pop up around the ship on the screen at Cetacean Observation,...and there were two of you this week. :D Hard, hard emotional rollercoaster on this one. They gave us Ro Laran back, finally! And then they took her away from us forever... And yes, the scene of them in the holodeck was truly worth waiting thirty years for. And no, she didn't sacrifice herself to convince anyone, she did it to give them a fighting chance, as she said before, that motivation didn't change. Sad that Ro Laran's story ends here, but they made every second worth it. I don't know when the last time was, where I mumbled "no, no, no." with one hand over my mouth, so good...
For Jack, I have 3 thoughts on it: 1. He's connected to the Borg collective, as son of Locutus 2. Somehow he's a secret changeling, unknown to him. Or an augment with some changeling goo in him. The great link is calling. 3. He's the new emissary of the Pah Wraiths, giving him the red super powers
Perhaps something happened to real Jack and they brainwashed a Changeling into being Jack. I like the Borg idea but it probably has to do with the Changeling infiltration of Starfleet.
Saw an interesting theory. The transporters are responsible for replacing people with Changelings. That's why Ro didn't take them. Additionally, Jack wasn't successfully replaced/transformed -- hence the weird shit with him.
We already had the Borg in season 2, so I have doubts. But it may play a part as a story plot, like maybe an element of Borg DNA that is present which garnered the interest of the Changelings for their evolution. The Changlings is the biggest plot point here. But an emissary to the Pah Wraiths...now that's interesting, which would mean at least an Avery Brooks cameo.
Ro was the crux of the whole episode. She was a very important key to the whole plot. Yes, I would've preferred her to stay as well, but the raw emotion of it all was a perfect send-off.
I don’t think Jack is a changeling. That is way too easy. Jack is having visions. In these visions the motif is red. In these visions a female voice (Beverly Crusher) is speaking to him. Sounds like a vision from a wormhole alien. In this case the Pah Wraiths! 1. Red color pallet 2. Visions communicating with u key point. Pah Wraiths and prophets always make said vision of someone you are familiar with. I think the Pah Wraiths emissary Gul Dukat is the entity behind the visions.
I think it has something to do with the Pah Wraiths as well. Remember the Dominion would have won the war if not for the Prophets interceading and stopping the Dominion reinforcements from coming though the wormhole. I think the changlings realize Dukat was right they have ally they never knew existed.
Good call! I wasn't daring to hope that we'd get some DS9 resolution as well in this season but considering where were at in episode 5, god knows what we'll see in the next 5! All I know is that I;m enjoying the hell out of it!
Remember when Picard was a borg? And he could still hear them? It's possible that they added something to his DNA WHILE HE WAS UNDER the borg influence
I'm not a 100% sure yet, but this might be my favourite Star Trek episode of all times. Ro's death hurts really a lot, and ... well, I love that. I mean, the whole build-up is insane: First, you introduce a fascinating ambivalent character during the 1990s in TNG, whose departure leaves a bad taste in your mouth. I mean, I watched it as a child, but I could never forget Ro Laren, and the wrecked relationship to Picard when she left. Then, she returns some thirty years later during a somewhat intangible but ultimate crisis that everyone seems to be helpless against, at first more ambivalent than ever, then she has some beautifully written dialogue with Picard, turns out to be "our" most important ally - and is murdered right away. And all she can do is use her death to immobilize some pursuers. Ro's death pains too much, which is why it's perfect. It wouldn't have been the same if we'd have the chance to spend more time (episodes) with her. Sure, that effect probably only works with people who A) watched enough TNG, and B) preferably so long ago that the sourness of Picard's and Ro's feelings when they meet in this episode can be felt by the watcher, too. Which, however, fits well with Picard Season 3 being something like The Great 2023 Star Trek Fan Service Special that aesthetically and musically cites so much Star Trek from 1982 until the late 1990s, like the Khan-esque threat by Vadic with a nod to the Battle of the Mutara Nebula, the Klingon theme from the movies for Worf, just to name a few, and oh!! The end credits!
8:30 Sean, you’re the first reviewer to notice Ro’s “subdued nose ridges” after two days since the episode was released. You’re the best at Trek spotting! 🎉
Ro had agency in her sacrifice, choosing to cripple the Intrepid rather than try to save herself by going back to the Titan. This agency takes her death out of the "fridging" category in my opinion.
It's classic Forbes. Didn't want to be a main cast member in TNG, didn't want to play the role created for her in DS9. She lovely barely appearing in things.
I remember hearing that Ro Laren was supposed to be the first officer in ST:DS9 but Michelle Forbes turned down the role so they created the character of Kira Nerys. It would have been interesting to see how different ST:DS9 would have been if she had accepted the role.
OMNI Magazine published early concept art that clearly shows Worf as DS9's C.O. with his son. When Dorn turned it down, they decided to keep the single father element. It's too bad because Alexander is kind of an afterthought these days and if they could have gotten even half of what we got with Ben & Jake Sisko, it would have been nice to see. I think it worked out for the best in the long run, though. I wouldn't trade that father/son character study we got for anything.
Let's be real for a moment, sometimes people just die. Not every death is going to be as glorious as Kor and some are just utterly meaningless like Tasha. This was her giving Picard a fighting chance but it hit him hard. Shaw coming around wasn't the true focus of the impact.
Tens of thousands of Starfleet personnel... There is no reason for anyone to ever expect Picard, regardless of rank or position, to ever hear about Ro turning herself in.
Picard putting a secret safety protocol switch next to a phaser behind the bar should have won the show a point not lost one. It was his personal program
I agree. Guinan always kept a weapon under the bar, whether it was a shotgun or a phaser. It was a good call back to that. Also given the amount of times Picard has had to throw down in a holodeck, especially in Star Trek VIII I'd keep a damn phaser and safety switch too.
@@dasmithstaizzle my thoughts exactly.
Yeah I can't believe this wasn't an up. It was obviously a conscious choice of Picard's to put the switch there as a nod to Guinan always being ready.
100% agree. It immediately made me think of First Contact and Picard using "The Big Goodbye" with the safety protocols disabled to shoot the Borg drones with the tommy gun. He explained how hologram bullets can kill without the safeties on right away and this scene was a nice nod to that IMO.
Exactly, what's the point of having a phaser there if you can't use it?
I think that Crusher doing the autopsy of the Changeling posing as Sidney and, for the record, asking the real Sidney to say this isn't her; and Sidney throwing up, with Dr. Crusher in a deadpan voice saying: "For the record, Ensign LaForge has indicated yes" needs an upward vote.
It cracked me up.😂😂😂😂
Between Gates McFadden's "Toughen up, Ensign, you wouldn't believe the shite I've seen" side-eye, and her resting "Oh, NOW I remember why I ghosted you jerks for twenty-five years" face, Beverley Crusher deserves her own Emmy.
47 likes
very skully of her
Ro saved everyone on the Titan. She could have turned back to the Titan but realized she would have just blown them up. There was a lot more to that then Shaws character progression
She didn't save everyone she transferred most of the crew to the Intrepid, which is under the command of Changelings, so she basically killed them all
@@charlesbailey7839 the transferred crew is in no more danger than the entire rest of Starfleet, certainly less danger than the crew remaining on the now hunted Titan.
@@charlesbailey7839 She saved who she could.
@@charlesbailey7839 she didn’t know whether anyone left on the titan was a changeling, just that Picard and crew needed the best chance of being rid of them.
Also yes, Ro rammed into the Intrepid’s nacelle, knocking out their ability to chase the Titan at warp.
I’d rather be chased by a Borg Cube vs. being in the company of a ship load of changelings…
Ro deliberately taking out the warp nacel was a huge gesture. Knowing she was trapped in the shuttle with no time, instead of just curling up in a ball or giving a long speech before being blown up, she proactively said "You're going to choke on my bones" and kept the changlings from being able to follow Picard and company into warp, giving them a reprieve.
As a character: it gave her agency to change the terms of her death. It fit in with the bravery and integrity of her character that Picard once saw in her. It showed that she was done taking chances with the changlings. She knew it was only a matter of time before she was replaced and leaving without getting Jack Crusher was probably her death sentence on board her own ship. She trusted Picard and Riker would do the right thing and decided to make her death meaningful.
Exactly. Calling her fridged undermines everything she has done to stop the Changelings, up to and including making sure that her death gave Picard a chance to save the Federation. This was her fight LONG before it was Picard's--she got to finally make peace with a painful part of her past and ensure that her mission went on.
as far as i remember, Michelle Forbes had no inclination to want to revisit Ro Larren as a character. So to get so much from her as an actress is this episode was a gift, not a waste. she delivers the data chip, explains the exact nature of the threat, saves Jack from the security, shows Picard how much his pride has cost him over the years. And then sacrifices herself to enable them to get away. Fridged? Na.
I loved this episode of Picard as much as i have like any episode of any series, for years.
excited for the reminder.
Many months ago, Matalas stated that they "got someone that they didn't think they could get" and I hoped then, and am convinced now, that he was referring to Michelle Forbes
The role of Kira Nerys on DS9 was originally written as Ro Laren in the early DS9 documentation, with some fairly detailed descriptions of her TNG character arc up to season 6. Michelle Forbes turned it down. When I saw the two security officers plant the bomb and beam off, I immediately assumed that Mattalas had convinced the wonderful Ms. Forbes that it would be one episode to wrap up Ro's story, that it would be damned compelling, and then it would be done. So yes, I definitely understand the "fridging" argument in the overall scheme of fictional narratives, and especially genre fiction, but if you're going to tiptoe that line, do it well. And they did it really, really well.
Ro didn’t die to convince Shaw. She died to cripple the Intrepid’s warp drive.
Plus we need to consider Michelle Forbes as an actor, who is famous for never committing to a TV role long-term. Without question she would have come back to this role after 30 years to give her a final and heroic resolution. This is the furthest thing from fridging. Seàn, you whiffed this one hard.
I agree I think Michelle Forbes wanted out and to close the door on Trek for the fans.
@@ACGuy1 Yes, it was a Harrison Ford as Han Solo in Star Wars moment I'm sure. As sad as I was to see her go, I felt it was better and more appropriately wrapped up than what they did to poor Hugh.
Which is why I can’t agree that she was fridged.
She was helping them all escape.
That doesn't change the fact that they fridged her character.
Wow, you couldn't be more wrong regarding Ro ...
Her death was memorable and truly heroic. She revealed to the crew all her secret findings within the earring, told Picard what is going on with Starfleet, then sacrificed herself to cripple the enemy ship so they had a chance to keep fighting this invasion ... AND she had the truly emotional face to face with Picard that I've waited decades to see.
It was an incredible cameo ... and it's amazing that they got Forbes at all! ... Normally 99% of calls from ST productions end with her agent saying "No" ...
You got this SO wrong ... surprising.
I agree about her participation. She left DS9 before the final season for a reason. She probably said yes to this only if they kill her off for good this time, and be only one show. So they did her justice and gave her an honorable and heroic ending. A thumbs up for that one.
@silverfoxeater You're lacking insight. As many have said ... Michelle Forbes NEVER wanted to return to the part. She refused DS9, She possibly refused Voyager. She almost refused her final episode on TNG ... She has never had any strong feelings for the character and never wanted to be tied to long running sci-fi shows .... How do you 'waste potential' when the most important aspect of that potential refuses to do it? ... ST producers KNEW what they had with Ro, they tried to attach her to every show they made! Please wake up.
RO WAS AMAZING IN THIS EPISODE.
@@aerospaceguy4639 She really was. And due to being revealed as Worf's secret contact, Ro basically uncovered this entire conspiracy! ... Ro Laren will be remembered as a Starfleet legend and hero, and as a longterm huge fan of the character, I'm very happy with that. Plus she and Picard had the moment together that I hoped to see for so long.
@silverfoxeater Except it's not a cameo. Alfred Hitchcock or Tarantino appearing for a 5 second glimpse is a camero. A character appearing for a significant part of an episode with full dialogue and the story pivoting around that character is not. Go look up "cameo", and shut your yap.
To be fair, Ro's death wasn't just to make the captain realize, it also took out the Intrepid's warp drive, and allowed the Titan to escape. She gave them a chance to run.
100% agreed, and it raised the stakes of the season. Main characters can die. She was absolutely amazing and her death was poignant imo
I completely agree. I was sad to see her go after just showing back up, but the time we had with her was beautiful, and from a story standpoint this gave us as viewers a serious sense of risk. I hope we get a few more surprises like this over the next five episodes.
I thought a lot of it was just to tug heart string. We all love Ro and seeing her die sucked. I'm sad to see her go but this episode was amazing and so was she. I did not really feel like it was just done to help a male along. I think that pov is a cheap easy shot.
Bad writing. Why didn't the Intrepid fire on Ro's shuttle? Made zero sense.
At the end of the episode, they said they would use the explosion as an attack by the Titan. They probably didn’t fire on the shuttle for that reason.
Ensign Ro was in 8 out of 178 episodes of TNG. That is 4.49438202% of the episodes, less than 1/20th of the entire television series. That is not including the four films that were made and her overall importance to the show is there, just not as much as some feel it. Her sacrifice gave the Titan the opportunity to escape and not be pursued for some time while the Intrepid makes repairs. Her sacrifice made me think of her character in a completely different light, I now greatly like her character arch through the show and find your minuses for the episode to be somewhat infantile. I get it, one of your favorite characters is dead and you wanted more from her story, I'm sure Tasha Yar fans feel the same way.
I am so surprised there was no mention of how menacing the USS Intrepid looked after Ro's sacrifice when it turned towards USS Titan while powering up its weapons. I don't think a Starfleet ship has ever looked so menacing on screen before. The lighting choices on that was perfect.
Oh yes. Its almost like the Intrepid took a shot to the jaw and then raised its "head" with an angry, vengeful expression.
Although the whole "smoke because damaged" thing was a down for me
Theses ships don't run on diesel
It's the same feeling from rogue one when the rocket hits the atact and it shrugs it off
@@kevinroth2900 could be venting plasma. 🤔
I just plan did not like that ship design. It was like a star fleet take on a Klingon design knock off.
Completely disagree with the idea that Ro's death was to convince a male character to see sense... She moved the Titan's crew, made ammends with picard and accepted her death, she also crippled the intrepid. Her death was to do what she saw was right, I don't think Shaw played any part in the decision making, with or without the 4th wall.... The moment she appeared, I didn't think she was going to be around for more than one episode... She sacrified herself so picard could have a chance and I think that was a fitting end for her character.....
I mean she still died in the end for a male character’s plot and feelings, it’s just Picard and not Shaw
Fridging doesn't mean SHE decided to sacrifice herself to convince a male character. She probably had no idea it would have that effect. It means that the WRITERS kill off a woman just to stir a man to action. They have no real agency, they die merely to serve the story.
I'm unconvinced that this is a true fridge, tho I see the argument for it. Either way though, her decision making process is irrelevant to whether it was or not.
Agreed but I would say she sacrificed herself so that the Titan could get away with those who could carry on her work to save Starfleet and everyone who is not a changeling from the changelings. She didn't die for Shaw, who wasn't even convinced by it anyway, or Picard, who was already convinced and trying to leave, or any one person, she died so that others could carry on and complete the good and necessary work she started and believed in...I would call that a heroic end. I found it a very fitting and moving end for this character that I too have been waiting decades to see return. Up.
She died for Starfleet.
Agreed. It's obvious to me she serves as the daughter figure that was never fully realized until she was gone and serves to push Picard toward building his relationship with Jack. It was not fridge service to convince Shaw something was up.
It’s like every episode is a mini movie. I’m absolutely loving this season.
Me too. The best Star Trek since the 2017 reboot.
I've been saying the exact same thing. Get out of my head Gareth.
Duh. Every streaming platform is creating this type of content
Not gonna lie i hated the first two episodes of this season. They felt like the same grim and dark crap of the first two seasons. But this season has gotten steadily better with each episode. The story has gotten way more interesting as it's progressed. This season is what season 1 of Picard should have been.
Ro wasn’t wasted. They are jamming a lot of people into this season. Don’t think they could have given her more than one. Lore and Moriarty to come in the last 5. Geordi as well. All that said, it gave her a heroic end. A redemption arc. I loved it.
Also the actress might have agreed to this because it was 1 and done
Not to mentioned that Ro is the one who recruited Worf and figured out the channeling plot. She’s the backbone to saving Starfleet from the threat. It’s as strong a closing act as possible, even if tragically short.
It's even possible she may have a cameo or two as a hologram on the data chip she left Picard. I was really excited for a moment when I thought that the Titan would maybe be able to rescue her and they all go forward together. Alas, that would have put too many compelling characters in a series that really needs to be pulling things together and not distracting us with subplots. Hell, we still don't know what Vadic's deal is.
Crap, I forgot about Moriarty. That's what I get for reading the comments!
Also: Maybe MF didn’t want to do more than 1 or couldn’t. We don’t even know she’s really dead. She didn’t want to do a long run on DS9 or Battlestar either! Don’t accuse the writers of sexism when there could be a number of perfectly valid reasons why she is only there in one episode. Down!
Having Ro back made this the best episode of Picard I have seen to date. Her and Picard finally had the closure we all wanted. Picard finally understood who Ro is and why she did what she did all those years ago. Beyond that, however, she sacrificed herself in the ultimate act to help them all escape, pass on all her intel, and probably save the entire Federation which is what Picard finally saw in Ro before she died--that it was never duty, but conviction and honour that drove her to always do what she knew to be right! Loved it! I think this guy misunderstood the depth of Ro's death here. I would have loved to see more of her, but I do think there was the weight for Picard and closure of their storyline in her actions there; she probably did more to save the federation in her actions than anyone. They need to bring Janeway in at some point!
Ro death was the perfect closure to her story arch, she died fighting something she believed in. To think they did this just to make a female character dies to convince a male character does not make any sense!
I dunno about Janeway but I guess for Seven.
This being the final season of Picard, I legitimately thought Worf had died. I had to pause the show for about 10 minutes to calm myself down, only to see him come back to life almost immediately. I love this rollercoaster game of emotions this show plays with me.
When Ro Laren showed up I don't think I've experienced a more unexpected moment in television ever. The number of joyful expletives that left my mouth that started with "Holy" and "What the" was uncountable. Also, no body, no death.
Totally agreee. I for one choose to accept she somehow got away. I mean Shax survived an explosion and came back misteriously. Maybe Sisko is responsible for saving them both?
Yea my neighbors are wondering who Ro is🤣
Lucky, I was spoiled about her appearance, though thankfully not her death.
Considering how quickly they did away with Icheb and Maddox in Season 1, I think Ro's entry and exit from this episode was actually pretty good. She wen't out like a bloody hero, sacrificed herself so the others could get away. I wish we could have more of her, but this also feels so fitting for her. She died for a cause she believed in. That sounds like Ro Laren to a T.
I don’t really get why anyone would want a good end for Maddox anyway personally
Hugh and Icheb got terrible endings. Still frustrates me.
I fell out of my chair when she appeared. Love Michelle Forbes.
@@nerdjuniorcollege9637 such is life, not everyone gets the ending they deserve.
@John Dall of course not but Ichebs seemed cruel and does take something away from Voyager. And it was just done in a small scene as part of Sevens story with villian of the week.And in first season killed Maddox,Hugh and Icheb. Seemed overkill to me. Pun probably intended 🤣
The inclusion of Ro was amazing. Only the original actress could do the part justice. I am amazed she came back. From what I had read, she had no interest in the role ever again and that's why she wasn't seen again. Having her in a single episode gives volumes to what is happening.
It's also a terrific foil for Picard's feelings for his son, as it was obvious Picard sort of viewed her as his own.
Very much agree she only came back for the cameo knowing her character was going to get killed off. We'll know more when the BTS stuff comes out later.
I don't think Michelle Forbes said she wasn't interested in returning to Ro. She just didn't want a contract role. She's mostly interested in being a charcter actress. After all, shw returned in TNG'S final season after being missing for 18 months.
Agreed.
Many months ago, Matalas stated that they "got someone that they didn't think they could get" and I immediately hoped upon hope that he was referring to Michelle Forbes, and I'm sure now that's who he was referring to. What a score!!
I absolutely LOVE Captain Shaw. He’s such an amazing character with so many layers. I need a spin-off!!!
No thanks lol...
I agree. And Todd Stashwick is up for that too. He, Jeri Ryan and Terry Matalas have all been liking tweets calling for a Titan series.
For the death of Ro, it’s possible the actor would only reprise the role if they killed her off, so that has to be considered. And I don’t think her death is what convinces Shaw; it’s when the Intrepid charges weapons and locks them on that he finally acquiesces that something is up. As for Jack, I think he is somehow connected to the Borg. He’s not just the son of Picard, he’s also the son of Locutus.
That would explain the "Connect us" and "Hear me" whispers a little.
And Picard still has the ability to "hear" the Borg, even with the implants supposedly removed! If it's in Picard's DNA...
@@joerider3769 They turned Picard into a robot at the end of S1. In regards to Jack. Well maybe some inactive nanoprobes were passed on as well. But why did Beverly not get "infected"? Or any other love intrest of Picard for that matter? If that is what happened. And if it applyes to Picard, what about every other ex Borg like Seven? Tuvok, Belana and other Starfleet personal that got infected by nanoprobes must have the same problem.
@ShadowwingMD Brv and Jean Luc got buu- zy before Picard was a AI. And you ask some interesting questions! A new form of assimilation that the Borg figured afyer getting Beaton so many times by The Federation?
Remember there's also a tng ep where a clone son is introduced only to be found out.
Plus the Shrike looks a bit to much like the Scimitar.
For fans who remember watching the TNG episode “Preemptive Strike” around 29 years ago, this episode of Picard closes that loose thread that was dangling for much of our lives. I genuinely feel relief after watching this episode. That’s amazing. Bravo to everyone who worked on Star Trek: Picard, and keep on going Trek Culture; ups and downs are great.
Hugh's death was tragic but felt...hollow. Ro's was a dramatic gut punch and worked really well.
I agree 💯%
Hugh's death wasn't really necessary. Icheb's death was spiteful. Bruce Maddox's death was pointless.
Bit of a running theme from PIC Season 1 there.
Hugh....Hugh....was he that kid with Rapheala I feel like Hugh was a Borg in TNG but I don't recall him in Picard....anyway...Some Hugh died at some point and it didn't phase me at all as I dont even remember him. Ensign Roe dieing when we just got her back, thats another matter.
Or was he on the cube that the romulans had....eh maybe guess I have to go back and watch season 1....though seasons 1 and 2 so far have not held a candle to season 3
This is 1000 percent correct
When Beverly asked Jack how he knew the four Changelings he killed were Changelings, and he said he didn't... the look on her face, displaying shock, concern, and a little fear, that look caused the hair on the back of my neck to stand up.
Gates McFadden is amazing this season! I never realised how good of an actor she is and I'm glad they are finally giving her something worth acting.
yeah that was a good look. like "I didn't, i woulda fuckin killed them anyway"
And her small nods to say "I knew you'd say that..."
He's borg human
@@carriekonk9812 So he's Jason Borg? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Has anyone thought the "sophisticated but flawed AI" guarding Daystrom Station is, in fact, Moriarty?
Obviously, yeah
Or possibly Lore, since he was in a Starfleet uniform in the trailers.
Not sure Moriarty is a particular sophisticated AI. The Doctor is probably more sophisticated given the issues they had when he expanded his routines too much. I would guess it's probably Lore as he would be considerably more sophisticated and very much has flaws.
That being said, Moriarty was programmed to defeat Data and outwit him to be an actual challenge for him. So maybe he has something to do with getting into Daystrom if Lore is the Daystrom AI.
I’m sure the AI could take on any form it wanted. It’ll be interesting to see.
This is gold !
Picard season 3 has been the best “TV” I seen in a long time and the joy it brings ..
Extremely well done..
Season 3 has been what I hopped the entire series would be like
Thu Ro/Picard holodeck scene is probably the best scene in Trek for 20+ years. Both actors are great and I completely bought everything that happened.
Its great to see Michelle again, she was great in True Blood and Battlestar.
The best scene is Beverly and Picard silent conversation in Episode 2.
Best scene in the entire Picard series😊
MF certainly was great in True Blood and Battlestar. So say we all!
Picard realising Jack was in the bar was the best scene for me - but there have beena lot of great scenes in this series
When Beverly discovers the changes in the changlings during the autopsy, it made me think of what Sisko's dad said in ds9s episode paradise lost. How if he was a really good changling, he would suck the blood out of a person and spit it out on command during a test. Apparently, they've figured that out.
Yep, and he said there's no test we can create that can't be fooled. The Federation has to keep relearning this lesson, it seems.
I'm sure that's what the Changling Martok would have done
Changeling Martok also managed to "leak blood" without being found out (DS9's Way of the Warrior)
Didn't Odo have internal organs when the Founders punished him by making him human? Perhaps the Changlings have learned to mimic what they did to Odo but not make it permanent. Also perfected it more since Dr Bashir could still tell Odo wasn't exactly human though tests during that time he was a solid.
@@TheAtkey This is the most logical explanation. The fact they could essentially make Odo human means changelings have the capacity for even greater change in their forms. If they essentially "punish" themselves to a somewhat lesser degree, then they could presumably bypass low level checks.
I don't think Ro's death was wasted at all. She didn't sacrifice herself for no reason, she did it to take out the Intrepid's warp capability so that Picard, who she specifically came to get help from, was able to escape. It wasn't done just to convince Shaw of the threat, that was just a bonus that might help him trust Picard more himself later on.
She knew that if there was one person in all of Starfleet she believed could help and wouldn't back down, it would be Picard, despite their past she was willing to meet him him to get his help, after first figuring out whether they could trust each other. At some point she realizes that she will be killed for asking too many questions and entrusts him with everything she's learned so far.
God knows what both Ro and Picard have both thought of each other over the decades, replaying events, imagining how things could've been different, yet in the end she was willing to come to him for help, trust that he won't betray her, give him information to help him find a solution, and then sacrifice herself to make sure he escapes with it. Definately sad to see her go, but not a waste at all. I considered it very heroic and an amazing way to reintroduce and say goodbye to the character.
Yeah, Ro's a great character, but realistically we aren't going to be able to get too many more outings for any of these characters, and bringing her back for more than a bit part would be very unlikely. This was a perfect send-off for her.
I look at it like this she couldn’t save one father, but she saved him
@@aric3385 One thing I always hated Picard for was the way he treated Ro in her final episode of TNG. She all but begged him to take her off her assignment because she was conflicted and knew she would probably side with the Maquis but didn't want to betray him. So to see him so angry at her in this episode make that all come flooding back.
He was mad at her because she betrayed her commanding officer, the great Jean Luc Picard and left paradise (Sisko Anyone?). She was mad at him because he's the closest thing she had to a father figure who forced her into a horrible position, refused to listen to her when she asked for help, and condemned her for her decision ever since.
...sorry Picard, no sympathy for you on this one. Hated your decision then, hate it more now... but loved how he's now 'lost' at not knowing who he meant to her, and her to him, with no way to find out by the episodes end. If she had survived this probably would have been explored at some point, but I love how this season is dealing with a lot of what it's and having to deal with simply not knowing something you wish you did.
Her return was handled absolutely perfectly. The very thing that caused their rift is the one thing that allowed them to trust each other.
I think she died nobably. I do think she should have left more of a clue that her whole investigation was in her earring. If Picard didnt' tell Riker and Riker figuring it out Picard would have possibly never known.
Ro might not be gone completely. Remember, her image didn't cut out as the shuttle exploded. We saw "Connection Lost" several moments before the shuttle exploded into the nacelle. Plenty of time for her to beam off and onto the Intrepid 😉
Not to mention her comment about possibly overcoming the transport inhibitor "when they got closer" She could've beamed aboard the intrepid before the explosion
@@16tonpress21 True, but to what end? She would have been immediately captured by the Intrepid's crew.
My thoughts exactly 😊
@@nooneatall8072 To "turn death into a fighting chance to live."
I hope not. That really would be lazy and clichéd.
Just watched this week's picard. The best season of New Trek gets better with every episode. Seeing Ro again was brilliant, which made her death all the more heartbreaking. Can't wait to see what happens next.
The reason season 3 is better is because Alex Kurtzman has zero input on that series. He is a executive producer in name only. Better enjoy this iteration of Kurtzman era Trek because from what I'm hearing the new suits at Paramount will phase away from this current era Trek. SNW Prodigy and Lower Decks will fulfill their contracts. Rumor also has It that Paramount will let Trek cool off for a bit then in 2026 possibly rebooting it in time for the 60th year anniversary of Star Trek possibly resetting it In a Continuity in line right after The events of TNG. It's all Rumor. But Picard seems to lends credence to this with the homages of past Trek series.
Ro’s return serves many purposes for the story, but it’s also a subtle parallel to Picard’s relationship with Jack that’s only just begun. The scene where Picard suggests Jack consider joining starfleet comes to mind.
Good point. I think when Picard says "I didn't even realize what she meant to me," he meant he saw her as a daughter. Combined with the scene where Jack heard him say "Starfleet is the only family I've ever needed" it's a symbolic transition to Picard losing his old "family" to accept his new one.
I was thinking the same thing. Her presence challenges Picard's beliefs and prejudices.
@@dustinwulf8481 Picard season 3 really has Picard (and the audience) questioning what makes the man (beliefs, hopes and regrets) that we thought we had tuned in to watch a show about.
It's a blink-and-you-miss-it moment, but in the scene where Worf accesses the computer to display the names of Morn, Krinn, Brunt, and Okona, there is another screen just preceeding that one, showing the names Larell of Rehnia, Sneed, and T'Luca. We know of the latter two from this season, but Larell is another DS9 callback -- as shown in the episode "Who Mourns For Morn," she was part of a gang of thieves (including Morn) who pulled off a substantial latinum heist in 2365, only to be betrayed by Morn, who escaped and kept the latinum for himself; years later, after Morn supposedly died, she arrived on DS9 to try to recover the stolen loot...
They should have added Sakonna and maybe Tallera.
Epic observation
Was Larell the hot one? The one hiding in the mud bathtub?
The fact that Captain Shaw is so easy to hate but you know where's he coming from makes him pretty great as a character. But dude... Ro's return caught me off guard! It took me a minute to recognize who this was but once it connected, my jaw dropped. It's a pheromonal return and a heartbreaking end with a bittersweet ending. This season of Picard is something else!
I didn't even know it was her until they said her name.
I actually squeed when she appeared on the screen...Ro has always been a favorite of mine...would I like to have been able to more of her badassery? Absolutely! Still, while I am broken-hearted with Ro’s death, it was true to her character. LLAP 🖖🏻
Ro's role wasn't small, she enabled them to get away, got Shaw on board with the team, gave them intelligence and ultimately brought the entire team back together. It was perfect IMO.
Totally agree. Think the guy that does this YT is way off base. Considering she only wanted to be in one episode, it was a perfect send-off. Love Michelle Forbes!
@@jimbailey1122 Is this what MF wanted? I am only curious, not contradicting. If so, then you are correct - Ro got a perfect send-off.
I love Mr Ferrick. But I really don't get this down. She went into the Intrepid warp drive so they can get away. If they have a warp drive they just follow them and destroy them. The Intrepid is clearly a more powerful ship and armed to the teeth. It is a Starfleet security/intelligence vessel and most of the Titan crew is aboard. She knows/hopes Picard is going to find Worf and off they go. She died for a cause - just like she would have done with maquis. But this time it was FOR Starfleet. And Picard gets her. It was perfection
I think his disappointment was her 'fridging'
Ro’s return was fabulous. The tension and distrust between her and Picard and it’s ultimate resolution was powerful Trek. LLAP
I had goosebumps so many times watching this episode. It was insanely good. The writing is phenomenal - look what happens when writing is actually by a fan and has seen the shows.
Matalas is not a writer, he's the show runner, which makes it even better b/c he has full control. By this time in S 1 and 2 I was like "wow all these subplots are dragging this show down." Not S3. Gets better every week. Kudos to Matala and his writers.
Yep, the writers are certainly fans. As is the showrunner, Terry Matalas. Plus, Matalas worked on Voyager, DS9, and Enterprise back in the day. He knows and loves ST and the lore.
Watching Ups and Downs is like having a pint with an old friend and just letting them go on about something they're passionate about, and you just smile and nod, but not in a bad way, because it makes you happy to know there is something in their life that brings them so much joy.
Lovin this season....best Trek I've seen for years. Loved seeing Ro's return. The reconciliation with Picard and the passing of the data chip, for me, made her death emotional and heroic.
And the earring being part of her introduction to Picard and her farewall.
I am loving this season. Bringing Ro back to finally (after 30 years) face Picard and brilliantly settle their differences was a high point for me. Since this is the last season (?), there might not be enough time to develop Ro's character further. She died a hero's death, or an honorable one, as Worf would say. Bravo!
The biggest complement I can pay this series is that it's the first trek in a long time that I could watch again. And again. And again. Outstanding.
Can we just take a moment to thank Terry Matalas for giving us the Star Trek we have been waiting for?
So say we all!
May the Force be with us.
Best season of Star Trek in 30 years, and I love Strange New Worlds. I’ve seen the films in the theater since ST III and bar none, nothing has made me happier.
@@ortizmo I loved when Gandalf said that aboard the Rocinante when they were fighting Gojira!
Very rarely do you have a "final season" so expertly executed. Each episode is better than the last.
I would say the only other final season that is as well executed was Season 7 of DS9
@@xandersnyder7214 I loved DS9 but season 7 got super boring at times. We got way to much time of the Dukat/Winn bible studies
@@xandersnyder7214 I wasn't even equating this final season with just the Star Trek universe, but with all series at any time
Would've been nice if this sort of stuff had also been the first (and second) season, not just the last...
Nice catch, Ellie. As I watched that scene I said to myself "That'll be on Sean's list, surely".
As for Ro, it was a massive emotional moment seeing her return. Commander Ro, of Starfleet intelligence. I got the distinct impression from the first moment in the Observation Lounge that she knew she was on her last mission. Her entire mission was to make sure she could trust Jean-Luc, mitigate changeling risks to him and the Titan as much as she could, and convince him to carry on her investigation.
Her death still came as a shock, and ripped my heart out because I have wanted to see her back for 30 years, but for me, Ro has always been about doing what she thinks is right. Believing in her cause, and being ready to die for her cause. Whether or not she believes in Starfleet (and perhaps the Federation), she believes in the Bajoran people, and that's why she sought out Picard. He's outside the loop, and she knows him. Her superiors, etc, were all compromised, which means she knew she'd been made. Yes they'd let her get to the Titan, to Picard, but they were never going to let her return. She knew it... that's why she reconciled with Picard, and covertly gave him her data.
Also, I'm not 100% convinced as to whether I would count her out yet, after-all, she was Starfleet Advanced Tactical Training graduate by the episode "Pre-emptive Strike", a member of the Maquis, and then Starfleet Intelligence. She knows how to be covert, and guerrilla tactics. Plus, she was very close to the Intrepid when the shuttle exploded, and Seven did say if she was closer to the Titan she could have beamed Ro off the shuttle... just saying...
I totally agree about Ro maybe not being dead....
As Sean said, "no body, no death"
Ro was recruited directly from prison by Starfleet Intelligence. Picard would not have been notified or know of this.
She also wasn't "Fridged" - her sacrifice allowed the Titan to escape without them having to fire on another Federation starship and causing casualties on both sides.
I think Jack could be inhabited by a Pah-Wraith. We once saw Jake have the same red eyes while being possessed by one, and it would kind of make sense for the rogue changelings to partner up with them to destabilise or take over the wormhole
Ooo that's good - could well may be
@@Tulpen23 Especially since Ro's beliefs in the prophets were one of the focal points of her argument with Picard
My thoughts exactly.
SPOILER:
Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if, as a final surprise guest character, we'd get to have *_Sisko._*
Which may or may not pave the way for a potential 25th-century ST show with DS9 characters in it.
I think Jack is infected with changelings that has taken on the properties of a parasite. They are working together to take over the host and control it which is what parasites do.
I'm going with an Android.
Terry Matalas is definitely getting the most out of the 12 Monkeys cast this season. Crossing my fingers for Emily Hampshire.
Unlikely - since if I've got my timelines straight she was in Scotland headlining THE RIG.
She tweeted a Picard picture around the time they were filming. I've been waiting for her to show up somehow, somewhere
@@Drew8472 I stand corrected - hope it was a work day not just a set visit.
@@CRanapia As if something as trivial as a timeline would be a hindrance for her.
I loved that Krinn (Kirk Acevedo) called Sneed (Aaron Stanford) his brother. Nice touch.
Really enjoying it. Have a theory and it might have been mentioned but I think the sophisticated AI guarding Daystrom is Moriarty
Great idea. He can take shifts with Agimus and Peanut Hamper. They’re totally benevolent and not at all KILL ALL HUMANS.
I think the way they over come the daystrom IS Moriarty and it fools the AI on the base into letting certain ppl thru.
I really like this theory, tbh
I don’t think it was fridging a character, I think killing her had a much more profound effect, leaving you wanting more or leaving you impacted by the senseless death
The growth happens completely to help male characters move along. It doesn’t serve a purpose for her own story.
@@cassandradistin9699 Proving her right (not to mention proving she wasn’t a changing herself which was still in my mind) doesn’t serve her character?
It’s to the credit of Michelle Forbes immense talent that you didn’t NEED 5 episodes to develop Ro. We were lucky she returned and the brief window of opportunity for her to make the connection with Picard, convince him of the existing threat and, ultimately, to “be seen” by him is the epitome of great drama and storytelling. The tragedy of her loss is so much more poignant because they didn’t HAVE more time. I think you completely missed the point- there is no wasted potential. The character fulfilled her arc- it just wasn’t the arc you wanted.
I absolutely love this season. Wish this show runner had been the show runner for all three seasons.
Really enjoying this season. Loved seeing Ro back but I understand her death. It reinforced how deadly the situation has become. All I need is a cameo from Sisko.
What is Ro real life name please and is she the same actor from TNG?
@@jamiekilburn3071 Thank you.
I think we're going to get a Sisko cameo
High tides raise all ships - I feel the Picard series has really also been a showcase for showing how far in their craft Patrick Stewart's former castmates have come as well. The writing has evolved to better serve the actors, as well. All around, it's taken this long to really get the excellence we knew was there
God damn, this season just keeps getting better and better. Honestly, for me, it makes the first two seasons worth it, this is why we muddle through bad Star Trek, to get to the good stuff. And I think I speak for everyone here when I say we need a Worf-Raffi show.
Edit: Man, for someone who has been saying "no body, no death" for 30 years, Sean really gave in with that shuttle explosion. No body, no death! Ro is knocking around on the Intrepid gathering trustworthy Titan crewmembers to overpower and take the ship and go back to help Picard.
Yeah, she's a wily cat. I hope so too but then again, it was a death Worf would approve of.
I agree
I agree. Comms were lost and we so no actual death. Dunno whether she's **actually** not a changeling though ..
I don't consider Picard S1 and S2 as bad, just bloated with too many confusing subplots--too much going on for 10 episodes. And I actually like Disco S2 when Pike took the helm, and SNW has terrific potential to deliver. There is no bad Star Trek. Just some Trek better than the others.
Hot take: Jack Crusher has a Pah-Wraith inside him! The red fiery eyes are really evoking Gul Ducat and Jake that one time he was possessed.
I hope we get a Janeway cameo they mention her a lot in this season
Theory: Transporters used to integrate alien(s), Goo people and or bug critters from "Conspiracy", into human form. That's why the transporter operator in ep. 1 or 2 was a shapeshifter.
It's not "Star Fleet" putting the fleet on display... Its the Changelings. So I'm okay with that logic.
Thanks for the vid Sean, and TC Team!
I agree, it is a bad tactical decision, made because of Changeling interference.
Came here to say that!
It's still weird that all the non-Changelings in the fleet are just going along with it. Again, I'm going to presume "entire fleet" is just hyperbole until proven otherwise.
I gasped when I saw Ro and I cried when she died. I even cried a bit when her earring had data within it. didn’t expect that reaction ! I think her death was to show show us that Starfleet was compromised and the danger was bigger than them and their 30 years. What an episode ! Loved it. It got me in the feels as I was very young when she went to the Marquis and in my thinking she has betrayed us all and then she does this all these years later. What a great performance.
I gasped too and went that’s Ro and then was where do i know her from whats her story?! Had a complete brain freeze! 😂
I think “entire fleet” was probably a bit hyperbolic and a quick way to say it’d be a major target. Like a Super Bowl stadiums worth of people, like everyone will be there.
That "powerful AI guarding Daystrom" is 100% Moriarty. Especially as the one shot of him looks like he's in the room shown in this episode
I don't think they wasted Ro, i think they are bringing lots of old characters into the story, Ro did her part and told Picard what he needs to do next and yes it is sad that she is dead but that's what they wanted from her in this episode.
I have been wondering who they are bringing back next, we know about Moriarty and Lore but they didn't give any warning about Ro and there must be more unknown characters coming back at some point, i hope they will bring back Sela the half-Romulan daughter of Tasha Yar, she might even be the big bad girl behind all of it
Also no i don't think Jack is a changeling, yes something odd appended to him and he went all Jason Bourne on 4 officers/changelings but its more then just being a changeling, something else is calling to him
Janeway will appear eventually in live-action. Kate Mulgrew can still act and she's doing voice-over for Prodigy, so why not.
If the titan is damaged and needs a place to repair, what safer place can there be than a Bajoran space station, where Worf was XO. I want to see DS9 again, along with Kira, Quark, Bashir, and Nog.
Of course, if Bajor is in the Federation and off-limits, then the other alternative, is to go to Cardassia where a certain tailor at this point is the elected leader of Cardassia, yes Garek would also fit into this kind of intrigue-based story and quite frankly he'd be up for some spy business again versus dealing with bureaucracy.
@@time391 I think we're going to get Geordi, his younger daughter, and the fleet museum as where they run to ground to get repaired. I mean...he's the best engineer out there (outside of arguably Miles O'Brien, who may be working for him), and he is in command of a station dedicated to restoring and maintaining old Starfleet ships. If they need someone to fix up the Titan, and maybe "downgrade" her with some legacy systems that won't be so easy for the infiltrators to hack, where better to go? Who would expect them to run to a museum rather than an active starbase? (Crusher obviously used the Myriad codec on the system connected to the old communicators for a reason, rather than sending a message via more normal channels.)
Shaw’s defo been the highlight for me. I really hope there’s a spin-off with him and his crew.
I am really hoping that as well. A continuation of this prime timeline and not more prequels. If they were going to follow the adventures of another ship and crew, Shaw and the Titan would be my choice.
@@S1n1st3r0n3 I agree with this sentiment, and think that's the plan. Let's hope they stick to it.
Yep I am with you here. I like that character more and more. But Seven has to stay on as #1.
This season just keeps getting better the wait every week is killing me!!😩
I agree, i felt that there was a drop off in the middle of season two where everything felt like fillers. Season three does not feel like that. I been watching every episode since season 1.
This is how i felt about season 2 "I am going to watch this in hopes that the season will start to pick up." The way i felt about season 3, wow, this is getting good and cant wait to see what is coming next.
In season three i legit paused the episode for a "OH WOW"
another cetacean observation i feel was when shaw ordered the shields to be raised , the screen graphic of the shields coming online was VERY reminicent of the same graphic from wrath of khan.
Just wish the prop master knew that each Bajoran's religious earring is unique to them (especially those made during the Occupation). Using a Kira Nerys earring prop and passing it as a Ro Laren earring gets a Pah-Wraith level Down for me.
I was so upset that they gave us Ro back just to take her away upset me beyond belief. Ro's sacrifice was in her character though, she knew that she couldn't get back to the Titan without risking the crew, and she knew the Intrepid needed to be disabled. As Spock would say the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Or the one.
Another great episode this week. I almost fell off my chair when we saw Ro's face. Amazing. In an odd way this season makes me so mad because all I keep thinking is that in the right hands we could have had three great seasons of Picard. Sadly we only got this one. But I will take it and just pretend that seasons 1 and 2 never happen.
This episode was so fantastic that in the 45-50mins of it? It felt like 5-10mins. It really was that good!
You had me nodding in agreement with the “Entire Fleet” comment- and then rolling my eyes with the “Fridging” comment.
What a silly thing to say.
No body no death, you said so yourself. Hear me out: she couldn’t transport to the Titan because she was too far away, she was close to the Intrepid; she went to advance tactics school and in her last TNG appearance she did some pretty cool stuff with a shuttle. I know it’s a small chance but the door is cracked just a bit for her.
I swear genre fans are their own worst enemies. The story closed off a 30 year arc of pain for Picard. You saw him crushed and in the background the intrepid was burning.
And you lot think it would be a good idea to undo all of that and make it not have really happened.
@@winsomehax O think we got that from when Spock was resurrected on some bogus planet after his heroic sacrifice
My head-cannon is that Ro was beamed aboard the Intrepid just before hitting the nacelle. Seven said they could possibly teleport her out if she was close enough.
Also, Jack is possessed by a Pah-Wraith.
Oh, that would be an interesting theory.
Fascinating observation since all of his visions have included red imagery.
His very first vision my wife and I looked at each other and said Pah Wraiths. The imagery was very Bajoran in addition to the red theme.
I wouldn't be surprised if Jack's passed by Dukat's spirit
I am kinda wondering if Jack could be some kinda human/borg hybrid. And the visions he has been experiencing could be the borg side trying to emerge. Remember Picard was once a borg, and he could have had borg nanites that were passed along to Jack
I think there’s a possibility that Jack is possessed by a Pah wraith. Unlike Dukat in DS9 however - who willingly embraced his possession - Jack has some semblance of control over the Pah wraith and doesn’t even realise he’s been possessed. The red eyes especially reminded me a lot of when Dukat was possessed in the DS9 finale. Lots of references already to DS9 such as the changelings, the Maquis and Bajorans, with Ro being the latest - that surely can’t be an accident. Maybe the Changeling faction has allied with some dissident Pah Wraiths who escaped being imprisoned at the end of DS9, or are somehow communicating with Jack from their imprisonment? What if the item stolen from Daystrom was not Lore but an Orb, and Jack holds the key to releasing the rest of the Pah wraiths which is why Vadic is hunting him down? If the Pah wraiths are involved and Janeway’s getting a mention pretty much every episode, who’s up for a Picard/TNG crew team-up with Prophet Sisko and Janeway? I might just dissolve into a changeling puddle myself if that happened!! (But it most likely won’t).
Lots to think about good job
Also…what if Pah wraith Dukat is Vadic’s boss? Unlikely I know, but it would be very cool.
Rich, if anything you just said would be the finale. Likely will have Janeway. Will be a true send off of all Star Trek unlike enterprise.
kostamojen
Holy cow you're probably right!
I keep finding myself disagreeing with the downs a lot this season, and this episode is no exception. Ro's potential was not wasted here, in fact the opposite - I think it was finally realized even if it means she's dead, she didn't die for nothing. The holodeck safety thing makes perfect sense if you think back to the holodeck scene in First Contact, and remember the fact this program is Picard's own and based on Guinan's bar hence he disabled the safety protocol because he knew where the phaser was.
There was a nice visual homage to Star Trek II with the dots quickly extending around the ship on the "shields up" display at the end of the episode, I liked that little nod.
The way this season is going, and the way how deep the is going...
I just wonder how they are going to wrap it all up in just a few more episodes.
Up count is off. It was already at 4 when Séan gave an up (by saying "Oh wow!" instead of "up") for Shaw's turbo lift conversation and didn't go up until his latinum up for Ro's arrival.
Regarding them “wasting” and not doing more with Ro back in the day: as I recall the role that became Maj. Kira in DS9 was supposed to be Ro, but Forbes didn’t want to do it.
Also, Shaw still wasn’t convinced even after her death. It was seeing the phaser arrays turn hot on the Intrepid that did it. Her appearance was more than a plot device. It was some great, and heroic, closure on an interesting character.
@andrew jenkins I think he’s getting there. When he realized there had been four on the ship, it started to hit home.
She was also awesome in Battlestar Galactica. And Seinfeld.
The reason Ro didn't return until now was that Michelle Forbes was resistant to returning.
3 things: 1) Ro had a heroic ending, a good way to exit after 30 years. Some have to sacrifice themselves for others; 2) You said Jack wasn't being threatened by the 4 changelings....yet one is pointing a phaser at him??; 3) Jack might be a changeling...but his bizarre visions/fighting skills points to something else. I suspect he has had some kind of genetic enhancements or got Picard's Borg nanoparticles.
This was one of the best episodes of Star Trek I've ever seen. It was so good I was watching it with my neighbor & she doesn't watch Star Trek at all, but she was into it from beginning to end. I think it made her a fan.
Ro's death served a purpose much greater than just convincing Shaw. Her role and death in this episode was probably the most pivotal act of the series so far.
When I saw Ro my jaw dropped. My 1st question - after my shock subsided - was "How the hell was she back in Starfleet?" and thankfully Picard asked the same question. I was afraid they'd handwaive it but nah, these guys were deep into the lore. Good stuff.
Missed opportunity to mention (Krinn) Kirk Acevedo considers him and (Sneed) Aaron Stanford to be brothers who were scavengers in District 7.
Kirk Acevedo was in 12 Monkeys as Ramse who with Aaron Stanford (James Cole) were scavengers and considers each other as brothers, joined Deacon’s (Todd Stashwick) gang of survivors called The West VII.
I was watching a few of the old ups and downs and think you should do an update for all the downs you promised you take back
When Ro mentioned Picard potentially being charged with treason, he should have responded with "And they say irony is dead".
Ok I don't think the safety off button should be a down. As the program is Picard's, so it would have his preferences. In the context of First Contact movie and PIcard's use of the holodeck against the Borg, having that as his fingertips could be a thing he has in his personal prefs.
I'm loving the theory going around that Jack is somehow involved with the Pah Wraiths, it would really explain a lot
Right from the episode directly into Ups & Downs, as it is the logical course of action.
You forgot the Wrath of Khan shield dots that pop up around the ship on the screen at Cetacean Observation,...and there were two of you this week. :D
Hard, hard emotional rollercoaster on this one. They gave us Ro Laran back, finally! And then they took her away from us forever...
And yes, the scene of them in the holodeck was truly worth waiting thirty years for. And no, she didn't sacrifice herself to convince anyone, she did it to give them a fighting chance, as she said before, that motivation didn't change. Sad that Ro Laran's story ends here, but they made every second worth it. I don't know when the last time was, where I mumbled "no, no, no." with one hand over my mouth, so good...
This season is beyond amazing. I am not joking (seriously) I shed a tear when ro Laren flew into that nacel. Rest In Peace Ro we will all miss you.
Jack is a mimetic symbiote calling it.
For Jack, I have 3 thoughts on it:
1. He's connected to the Borg collective, as son of Locutus
2. Somehow he's a secret changeling, unknown to him. Or an augment with some changeling goo in him. The great link is calling.
3. He's the new emissary of the Pah Wraiths, giving him the red super powers
Perhaps something happened to real Jack and they brainwashed a Changeling into being Jack. I like the Borg idea but it probably has to do with the Changeling infiltration of Starfleet.
Or some other anomaly, alien connection or influence at play in Jack’s mind-consciousness
Saw an interesting theory. The transporters are responsible for replacing people with Changelings. That's why Ro didn't take them. Additionally, Jack wasn't successfully replaced/transformed -- hence the weird shit with him.
Number 2 I was thinking the same thing
We already had the Borg in season 2, so I have doubts. But it may play a part as a story plot, like maybe an element of Borg DNA that is present which garnered the interest of the Changelings for their evolution. The Changlings is the biggest plot point here.
But an emissary to the Pah Wraiths...now that's interesting, which would mean at least an Avery Brooks cameo.
Ro was the crux of the whole episode. She was a very important key to the whole plot. Yes, I would've preferred her to stay as well, but the raw emotion of it all was a perfect send-off.
I don’t think Jack is a changeling. That is way too easy. Jack is having visions. In these visions the motif is red. In these visions a female voice (Beverly Crusher) is speaking to him. Sounds like a vision from a wormhole alien. In this case the Pah Wraiths! 1. Red color pallet 2. Visions communicating with u key point. Pah Wraiths and prophets always make said vision of someone you are familiar with. I think the Pah Wraiths emissary Gul Dukat is the entity behind the visions.
I think it has something to do with the Pah Wraiths as well. Remember the Dominion would have won the war if not for the Prophets interceading and stopping the Dominion reinforcements from coming though the wormhole. I think the changlings realize Dukat was right they have ally they never knew existed.
Good call! I wasn't daring to hope that we'd get some DS9 resolution as well in this season but considering where were at in episode 5, god knows what we'll see in the next 5! All I know is that I;m enjoying the hell out of it!
At one point in one of the visions there is a male voice and I swear it sounds like Gul Dukat.
That would be cool, but I don't think that's the case. Gul Dukat is gone.
Remember when Picard was a borg? And he could still hear them?
It's possible that they added something to his DNA WHILE HE WAS UNDER the borg influence
I'm not a 100% sure yet, but this might be my favourite Star Trek episode of all times. Ro's death hurts really a lot, and ... well, I love that.
I mean, the whole build-up is insane:
First, you introduce a fascinating ambivalent character during the 1990s in TNG, whose departure leaves a bad taste in your mouth. I mean, I watched it as a child, but I could never forget Ro Laren, and the wrecked relationship to Picard when she left. Then, she returns some thirty years later during a somewhat intangible but ultimate crisis that everyone seems to be helpless against, at first more ambivalent than ever, then she has some beautifully written dialogue with Picard, turns out to be "our" most important ally - and is murdered right away. And all she can do is use her death to immobilize some pursuers.
Ro's death pains too much, which is why it's perfect. It wouldn't have been the same if we'd have the chance to spend more time (episodes) with her.
Sure, that effect probably only works with people who
A) watched enough TNG, and
B) preferably so long ago that the sourness of Picard's and Ro's feelings when they meet in this episode can be felt by the watcher, too.
Which, however, fits well with Picard Season 3 being something like The Great 2023 Star Trek Fan Service Special that aesthetically and musically cites so much Star Trek from 1982 until the late 1990s, like the Khan-esque threat by Vadic with a nod to the Battle of the Mutara Nebula, the Klingon theme from the movies for Worf, just to name a few, and oh!! The end credits!
8:30 Sean, you’re the first reviewer to notice Ro’s “subdued nose ridges” after two days since the episode was released. You’re the best at Trek spotting! 🎉
Ro had agency in her sacrifice, choosing to cripple the Intrepid rather than try to save herself by going back to the Titan. This agency takes her death out of the "fridging" category in my opinion.
Killing off Ro was the condition set by Michelle Forbes to return. Wasted? Maybe. But at least that loose end was tied up. 🙂🖖
It's classic Forbes. Didn't want to be a main cast member in TNG, didn't want to play the role created for her in DS9. She lovely barely appearing in things.
First thing I thought as well.
I remember hearing that Ro Laren was supposed to be the first officer in ST:DS9 but Michelle Forbes turned down the role so they created the character of Kira Nerys. It would have been interesting to see how different ST:DS9 would have been if she had accepted the role.
OMNI Magazine published early concept art that clearly shows Worf as DS9's C.O. with his son. When Dorn turned it down, they decided to keep the single father element. It's too bad because Alexander is kind of an afterthought these days and if they could have gotten even half of what we got with Ben & Jake Sisko, it would have been nice to see. I think it worked out for the best in the long run, though. I wouldn't trade that father/son character study we got for anything.
Let's be real for a moment, sometimes people just die. Not every death is going to be as glorious as Kor and some are just utterly meaningless like Tasha. This was her giving Picard a fighting chance but it hit him hard. Shaw coming around wasn't the true focus of the impact.
Tens of thousands of Starfleet personnel... There is no reason for anyone to ever expect Picard, regardless of rank or position, to ever hear about Ro turning herself in.