One of the most underrated actors ever imo. Mostly wasted by Hollywood because they couldn't see him as anything other than Data for decades. By the time that kind of culture died off (like 5 years ago), he was already an old man! He can sing, he can dance, he can do funny, he can do emotional, he can improv. Anyway, yeah, incredibly talented person appreciated by too few.
Can someone explain what vadic meant that one of "her own" had to steal the cure for the changelings? I thought it was Bashir and Obrien who stole it and gave it to odo, NOT the changelings themselves
There is a lot of I think reference to world war 2 Vadic's torturer could be a Dr Josef Mengele. Since I read a story year ago that their is a book that was created by his research that is the best map of the human body and is the best reference. But is it ethical to use it. Due to the way the information is obtained?
It was great to see LeVar Burton given the kind of emotional scene that they couldn't really give him when he was encumbered by the VISOR prop. In 30 years, it had never occurred to me to wonder how Geordi cried with that thing tight on his face; now I have visions of the VISOR grille filling up with tears... The eyes are the windows to the soul and he deserves a lot of credit for being as expressive as he was with it in TNG, but it's so lovely that they're now taking full advantage of us being able to see them. Only the sunrise scene in Insurrection had previously come close.
Or shorting. He's having a moment and then straight shock to the brain due to some solution getting into the visor causing his vision to go wonky. The more I think about it the more I find ways that something innocuous could be horrifying.
While Insurrection may have been a "Meh" movie for me, the scene with Geordie savoring the sunrise with his own eyes has always been one of my favorite scenes.
I wouldn't be surprised if the tear ducts were surgically removed or electronically suppressed by the VISOR interface. The regenerative effects of the Ba'qu planet would have easily registered Geordi tear ducts as well as eyes. That also brings an interesting question to things like Worf's spinal surgery and did any of them regrow their Appendix if it was removed.
Can someone explain what vadic meant that one of "her own" had to steal the cure for the changelings? I thought it was Bashir and Obrien who stole it and gave it to odo, NOT the changelings themselves
@@davidt8087 Like Picard, she is revising the history to fit her own narrative. Picard thinks Starfleet gave it to them, she thinks Odo stole it and delivered to them. Both are on opposite sides of the true history and reach that due to their own personal history and view points.
Actually, Shaw’s tear as he lay on the floor of the bridge reminded me of Picard’s tear as he was lying down being assimilated by the Borg and becoming Locutus. Those tears conveyed much more than words could.
@@TheWovenSoul Do you think that the Borg Queen/Agnes Durati will intervene? Also, if she does, which faction will she and her hive support…it’s got to be on the side of Picard and his confrères hasn’t it?🤔. Anything could happen, there’s been so many twists and turns already.
@@mary-kittybonkers2374 One thing about the Borg is I can't see the Founders being able to copy them. At same time, the more traditional Changlings probably can't become assimilated but possibly Vadeck's version can since they are more solid than the traditional Changling. Scary part is if one of the more solid Changlings does get assimilated, than possible the Borg could adapt to either destroy or assimilate the more traditional Changling.
@mary-kittybonkers2374 Honestly, the vibes I got were along the Borgs eternal search for perfection. Last season's Agnes New generation Borg didn't even enter my mind lol I'm more inclined to think this is about Borg Changeling assimilation. That it's looking more & more likely, there's remnants of Borg left in Jean-Luc that weren't removed and have been passed onto Jack. I don't think Borg parts can ever fully be eradicated from someone. Even Chakotay had remnants or carry over left from his short assimilation with Borg survivors in Voyager. He could still hear them as a collective until the ship had moved many light years from the planet they were on.
I loved the nod to Odo who also took the appearance of the scientist who experimented on him. Another great episode, quite dark this time but everyone did an amazing job.
also noteworthy is that Odo... didn't HATE the scientist for it. He didn't like the experience, but he quickly came to realize that if that hadn't happened he wouldn't be what he was, and... also... the scientist in Odo's case didn't mean any harm... he legit didn't know what he was messing with.
@@marhawkman303 Dr. Mora didn't know what he was messing with - but in Starfleet's case, they knew exactly how they were genetically messing and torturing with sentient beings. And not with "what", in Mora's case, but actual with "who". Though I wonder how Starfleet got its hands on 10 Changelings when only the Female Changeling was sentenced to prison in 50-year blocks. For a second I though Vadic WAS the Female Changeling.....
@@savianedesigns6025 In DS9 it was mentioned as a throw-away line the Odo wasn't the only Changeling sent by the Founders to the AQ. It's possible that some of the dozens sent were still in dormant forms at the end of the Dominion War..... since the Founders had no way to actually contact them.
I actually found myself rooting for Vadic to succeed. Well, to an extent. I don't want the Federation to be destroyed, but this episode almost had me feeling that Star Fleet deserved to be eliminated, leaving the Federation that benefitted from Star Fleet's criminal actions to suffer the consequences of life without Star Fleet to look out for them.
@@kerouac.jackson I felt sorry for her and for what Section 31 did to the other Changelings. And the revisionist history that was told. That Starfleet infected them but compassionately delivered the cure. What a load of BS. I only watched DS9 and only small parts of TNG and VOY along with the new movies. I know many purists didn't like Star Trek Into Darkness but I felt sorry for Khan in a way. But it's not enough to make to excuse Vadic or Khan and give them carte blanche to destroy the Federation. For the Kelvin Timeline and Prime, the enemy here is Section 31. Those members need to be exposed and expelled with the information made public.
@@kerouac.jackson What section 31 did to her and a handful of others ia nothing compared to the brutallity the "great link", which she was apart of, put countless of entire planetary populations through out the Gamma quadrant through for thousands of years. The Vorta and Jem'Hadars where litterally programmed into obeying their orders, regardless of what they personally wanted. And we saw the complete utter lack of empathy the Changellings had for _anyone_. Had Worf been in the room, he would have reminded her of that. Vadic's reasoning is bullshit. She already hated "solids" before her capture.
@@Mukation yes this is what I hate. Why do none of the characters call the changelings out on their flawed logic. Doesn't make what the federation did good but we all saw what the dominion did to at least one world that challenged them. As far as the federation and section 31 knew that is what was a waiting them, hell the dominion may have been in the process of making it and star fleet just beat them to the punch. I would really love to see someone challenge the founders on this. Even when odo was talking to Cisco about the virus Cisco never counters or points out the dominion is no better.
The amount of Star Trek knowledge that Sean displays when he analyses that Vadic/Crusher/Picard scene is incredible. And he did it seemingly effortlessly just a few hours after the episode aired. What a feat!
I get the impression that this is a group of fans chatting and making their points as the script for these videos is being made, and Sean is probably the best speaker out of the group, hence why he's delivering the videos.
The thing I wish the most is that Shaw becomes the one person that performs the heroic act that saves the Federation by the end of the season. That he would become a thing that he struggles to understand about Picard and Riker. That he would not hate himself for being one of the people that was spared, but instead realize that his life had a purpose that he fulfilled. And most importantly, to avenge his crew and ship!!
For Shaw to write himself into the position of Federation saviour - in the same way Picard and Riker have been in the past - would be delicious, especially given what he said to them in previous episodes.
This would be amazing. I don't know why nobody is mentioning this, but Shaw clearly says "Blow the turbolift!" before his comm cuts out. He was prepared to die, right then and there, to save the bridge/ship and his crew. So, there is a hero in him. 100%. Whether he fully sheds that cocoon and turns into a captain of old remains to be seen. But I, like you, certainly hope so.
@@citizen_wayne - Just because somebody is rude or even hateful - doesn't mean they don't care about important things. He could save everybody selflessly while still being exactly what he is. Even 'enemy' soliders die to save their friends.
Levar Burton’s performance of Geordi’s emotion packed pleading and desperation in willing Data to come forward and suppress Lore was just amazing. His depiction of Geordi’s heartfelt emotions was very moving. This episode engaged me more than any other because of the amazing characters and their stellar acting but also the depth of the writing which dealt with the difficult topic of morality in warfare; also knocking the Federation off its perfect moral and ethical perch.
This season really gets better and better. No kid gloves on here, just a really good dramatic Science Fiction story with a solid cast, solid writing and fantastic visuals.
This episode was, to put it plainly, marvelous. It was heavy, it was impactful, it gave us a lot, and the acting was superb. The sheer amount of emotion LeVar Burton poured into this episode was incredible. From the little quaver in his voice when he said how he can't go through losing Data again, to the raw emotion when he was pleading with Data to hear him and help him, I cannot find enough good things to say about his performance in this episode. I wouldn't exactly give Jean-Luc a down for agreeing that they could be the executioners of Vadic's fate. Beverly, it is completely understandable; and Jean-Luc, over the past few weeks, has come to understand what it means to feel for his son. He may not have been there for everything they went through, but Jack is his son and as his father, he is admitting that he can do anything to protect him. This is essentially his version of Sisko's "Because I can live with it" speech. He has his Starfleet ideals, yes, but this is the creature who's been trying to hurt his child. I sympathized SO MUCH with Vadic as she told her story, and it made me understand. I cannot fathom how Starfleet could allow what was done to her and the other changelings. Torture and experimentation on POWs is NOT the Starfleet we know. But you cannot by any stretch of the imagination believe that what was being done to them was happening without any knowledge at all. SOMEONE in Starfleet had to know what was going on. If I were Vadic, and I had gone through what she went through, I'd be champing at the bit to get my revenge on those who tortured me as well. Whoever in Starfleet turned a blind eye to what was going on, they have a hell of a lot to answer for. During that whole scene, I legit got angry at Starfleet for allowing this to happen. And finally, big kudos to the writers for keeping us guessing about Jack. We're 7 episodes in and we still don't know what his deal is; is he a Pah Wraith in disguise? Is he some sort of weird Borg offshoot? Is he secretly a Breen and is just cranky 'cuz it's too warm? We don't know, and that's not the best part. The best part is that we WANT to know. It doesn't feel stale. It doesn't feel like we're being dragged along. We're not sitting here going "oh ffs will you just get to the point already?" The writing is fresh and keeps us engrossed in the story, and the writers deserve massive cheers for doing such a wonderful job of keeping us engaged. Like Sean said, I cannot wait for next week. I want to know what is going on with Jack.
For me, the tear from Shaw was the most powerful moment of the show, though there were plenty for certain. I think that scene set up the potential for huge character development in the future, and I hope it becomes so.
Vadic made a comment how she felt what she was doing was inevitable, like a river taking different roads all to the same goal. It speaks to her religious conviction to her goals. She wasn't expecting Lore to do something, just that the "universe" would provide a way.
Maybe I would have to watch it again but I felt like the force fields being weakened was being announced enough for Vadic to sense an opportunity would be coming. Not that she knew about Lore.
What Jack has (feels very extradimensional, with the Red Door & 'Come home' head voice) is something Jean-Luc had (the human remains still has) since the diagnosis for the syndrome he had to worry about was called into question. It made me think, "how did Jean-Luc get this alien 'aspect'?" Was it on some mission, either while on the Stargazer where he was probably diagnosed with it by the then doctor on the ship who made a cameo in the first season, or maybe before before he became captain? Then it make me wonder, "what if it goes further back?" What if Jean-Luc inherited it from his mother? What if the nightmares that drove her insane were derived from the same source as Jack's nightmares?
I like this theory, my pet theory has been that the prophets have a part in this, they have form for going back into the past and manipulating linear beings to bring about people that they need for their purposes.
I honestly hoped it was just a mundane thing. It's important for our intrepid heroes to have more mundane ailments (even if they have to be Treknobabble to be untreatable with Federation medical science). I was honestly hoping Jack was just suffering some mental illness and wasn't some macguffin.
I looked into IMDb, to see if I could find the name of the syndrome that Picard was thought to have ('It may have been misdiagnosed'). For the 2nd Season episode, "Fly Me to the Moon", it shows a pic (at the top of the web page for that episode, next to the trailer) of his mother Renee lying on the ground. She had dark red, vine/veins under/in her skin from the eyes, mouth, up the neck and along her hands. They've improved on the CGI effects for Season 3. 😁
Irumodic syndrome, that holds some answers. Picard suffers from it and Jack got it from him. But is more than a mere disease, maybe is something that Q gave, via DNA, to Picard, to be able to fight a threat in the future. Just a thought.
I think it was something caused by Picard's assimilation, not as just a Borg, but specifically as Locutus of Borg, something "more" than a mere drone would probably need specialized neurological restructuring, which, post-assimilation, could be mistaken as a precursor to Irumodic Syndrome. In Best of Both Worlds, Dr. Crusher did make a comment about how Picard's DNA is being "re-written". Maybe it didn't revert back completely after he was freed.
To tell you that I *screamed* when I saw Tim Russ is an understatement. I fully squealed and had to pause in my excitement so I didn't miss anything. As much as _ST: Enterprise_ with Archer and the NX-01 was my first, _ST: Voyager_ will always be my favourite. I love seeing my VOY boys. Also, yet _another_ mention of Admiral Janeway AND STILL NO LIVE ACTION JANEWAY T-T I KNOW SHE'S IN ANIMATED FORM RN BUT LEMME SEE SOME LIVE ACTION, *PLEASE!* Ahem- ok I'm done now.
This opening scene, like most of Terry Matalas' Picard, has great writing and acting. The cat-and-mouse game Seven plays is a roller-coaster with us initially thinking it's Tuvok knowing Seven won at Kal-toh but then he gets tripped up because it didn't know Tuvok used a mind-meld to save Seven in "Infinite Regress".
I liked the opening, but the episode quickly devolved in what looked like would've been a season cliffhanger episode. Sorry I wasn't impressed with this one.
I wonder if that part is also an easter egg for STO players because that mind meld between Seven and Tuvok is also a massive plot point during the Delta Rising story there
The bit that confused me though is that when she said "house of cards like all those games of Kal-toh".... which isn''t a card game. It was either a very clumsy bit of scripting or part of the ruse to test him. But as soon as she said that and he answered I was like "That's not Tuvok, because it's not a card game." Or perhaps it was just me. :)
@@brookead that comment means what it said the game itself is pretty much like trying to make a house of cards your moves are to make the structure as stable as you can until it forms its proper shape and size this is something very few outside of vulcans can do
As much as a absolutely loved this episode, I was almost screaming at my TV after Vadic’s monologue; “I’m sorry, do the founders have a problem with the capture, torture, and genetic manipulation of other species for personal gain?!? Like, we’re talking about the same Founders here? Leaders of the dominion?” If I was actually in that room, in that moment, I would be losing my marbles on her.
@@HollywoodandWine101 Don’t get me wrong, the virus from DS9, Shaw’s PTSD from wolf 359, Vadic’s torture from section 31, all absolutely brilliantly represented in this season. I could not love this show more then I do right now. And I’m not even taking away from Vadic’s totally valid position, even Picard himself felt that one. But for a founder to be so blatantly dismissive to her own hypocrisy was a hard pill to swallow for me. The Jem Hadar literally being bred, discarded, and slaughtered by their own, let alone by their enemies, along with the multitude of other genetically bred species in the dominion used as cannon fodder, is kind of a lot to simply look past in order to feel for this one particular changeling. If that makes sense.
Yes it is bothering me how they are trying desperately to build sympathy for Changlings. Ignoring all torture, creating slave races and genocide they had done. What section 31 did was bad but pales in what Changlings did.
@@pookhahare I think sympathetic villains who aren’t innocent either are more complex. I don’t think one wrong erases the other but while she has a point in that she was tortured for the sake of experimentation, she’s still very much the villain and revels in her actions. I’m a way she has done more than taken the face of her torturer but has taken her personality as well, needlessly cruel and reveling in the carnage.
I am secretly hoping that the ship getting captured by Vadic and her taking them to where she wants to take Jack is part of Picard's plan. Lore endangering Jack and Sidney probably was a hiccup but all in all I hope this was all a ruse they concocted. And love the Tuvok appearance here and LeVar's acting. Wow!
Hope you're wrong because they already released a clip from next week and (spoilers) there's a pretty high death count. So, if this is all 'part of the plan' it's a pretty shit and short-sighted plan. Unless of course, what really happened is they tricked them into unknowingly going on the holodeck and they didn't really get onto the bridge. In which case, maybe? But that would be some doing.
Picard's "I didn't know" was heartbreaking. He was kept out of a lot of important conversations over the course of his career, possibly as a result of his abduction and being forced into the Locutus role, either intentionally or via unconscious bias (or tbh because a Captain doesn't get to know everything that goes down everywhere). Also following Vadic's monologue I definitely had an "Are we the baddies?" moment, wondering how much stuff Starfleet did was S31 and how much was sanctioned. The badmirals are a star trek trope for a reason. Excellent episode, and I genuinely hope it builds to a DS9/VOY heavy spinoff.
I'm sure that Starfleet Command, or at least Starfleet Ingtelligence, knew of the Changeling POW's, but not of Section 31's experiments. That said, in cases like this, willful ignorance is just as bad as complicit sanctioning. The very day Bashir learned of S31's existence, he told Starfleet how dangerous this organization could be to the security of the Federation. But nooooo, let's not listen to the genetically modified man, he has no idea what he's talking about. Apathetic bloody admirals, I've no sympathy at all.
Sean, thank you for staying up so late to chat with everyone. I loved seeing Tim Russ back, and that little crack of a smile when Seven called him out… great!
I think this episode really highlights a running theme that's been going since Picard started. There's always been undercurrents of it in Star Trek, but Picard has really brought it into the foreground. The idea that the Federation is just like any other nation, and it's the constant, enduring efforts of people like Kirk and Picard, those who serve as it's moral champions, that keeps it on the straight and narrow. But you can never actually defeat cruelty and corruption, you can just keep pushing it back, and it will always lurk in the shadows.
Look and Vice Admiral Nora Satie she was one of those kind and what she did on the Enterprise but I hate how Picard et al don't distinquish Section 31 from starfleet, Vaddic I understand she's an abuse victim
The scene with La Forge pleading with Lure or Data for help brought tears to my eye. What fantastic and wonderful acting on LeVar Burton's part here as a father I can totally understand his pleading and being desperate for help. And then the scene where data says I'm here Gorde warms my heart. But then later when you see the Captain Shaw get thrown onto the deck of the bridge I actually said out loud you better not kill off this character. I really hope that they don't do that.
When Capt. Shaw was thrown out of the Turbo Lift and onto the bridge, we did see the tear coming out of his eye. Did anyone else remember when Picard was being assimilated? Did you notice the tear coming from his eye?
@@nel1962 Yea..I'm starting to like Shaw. I liked when he was like "engaging fire" made me laugh..but still. This isn't the star trek i remmeber, but it's better so far than season 1/2 and SNW, and a trillion infinite times better than discardery 🤮. Prodigy is good, and I'm not a fan of lower decks. I always have to quickly jump to an early season episode of voyager or ds9 (sometimes) to cleanse myself after new trek, even Picard season 3 as "good" as it is, but it's missing the point of trek
My guess is that Jack inherited the Borg ability to create a hivemind, but with whom he wishes. The vines are his mind reaching out to find another entity to merge with, and today we saw it happen. My guess
I need to rewatch, but are her faction cut off from the great link? If so, even more heartbreaking in that Vadic and co are simply trying to get back home to the people they are cut off from forever. How traumatising that must be after such a connection
@Patrick Evans didn't she say she passed on her condition to changelings she linked with, and that it caused pain and a shorter life? Guessing she doesn't want to sacrifice the whole link.
I called those "vines" blood vessels or _veins_ early on and Popcast who has seen the entire series replied and said they chose the word vines very carefully to not give any spoilers. So that leads me to believe that I am on the right track.
I want to say up to Vadic's backstory in the willingness to show they are still monsters within Humanity. It was also just brilliantly presented. The way it was shot was intentionally disjointed and meant to convey to the audience the unvarnished horror of it especially with that haunting whistling of "Three Blind Mice".
But it also shows that Odo might have gone through something more burtal than we were lead to believe. It might not have been this cruel but Odo did the same thing as Vadic in choosing a likeness
I'll remind people that Sisko (the DS9 hero) in one episode raked Worf through the coals for fighting on when that put civilians at risk in Rules of Engagement, while compromising an entire ecosystem to get a low priority fugitive. He also was an accessory after the fact for murder, smuggling weapons of mass destruction to a known criminal etc. in Pale Moonlight. Archer once pirated civilians, stranding them years away from the nearest port - and, as far as we know, never came back to pick them up when the mission was over. My point is that, in Star Trek, the characters' moral compass often depends on the plot.
Later series had way more freedom with ambiguous decisions and were better for it. Even Janeway had to bend/break the Prime Directive when she saw fit. I like to think Gene didn't want Picard, or even Kirk for that matter, to betray themselves. Picard was always about justice and diplomacy, not vengence or righteous murder. I get that this was an unstable and dangerous individual but this scene with Beverly, convincing themselves to kill her, was hard to believe and could have been left out.
The thing that makes me more hard-nosed about the changelings is having recently binge watched deep space nine through the dominion war. And it is so heart wrenching to go one episode after another, after another, and see the suffering. I think that is the benefit of going weekly in that it allows you to process it. But when you binge watch it, it can be more traumatic to deal with things where you see so many people suffering.
I do wish Picard had raised the issue 2 Starfleet officers risked their own safety and careers to get that cure to Odo. I also wish these Changelings were as formidable as the DS9 era ones. They make a point that these are more powerful, but they clearly are not. DS9 era Changelings could casually bypass Federation sensors. You needed to basically hit them with wide beam phasers to reveal them. And bleeding was never an issue, it was keeping their "blood" looking like blood after it was separated from them that was the issue. Heck, DS9 era Changelings could catch up to Runabouts at WARP. The idea even a John Wick type Jack with a phaser could be casually taking them on would be silly.
I feel the down for Vadic seemingly knowing that Lore was going to do that was a lil unfair, especially when you skip over her monologue at the climax of the episode where she explained exactly how she knew. "I warned you it would end this way, you could have spared yourselves then where you are now... ...to be mutable, fluid, means knowing what the river knows, that there are many ways to the same sea. So here we are, where we were always going." She knew it would happen, not literally, but spiritually, she had faith that because she's 'right' she'd end up exactly where she wanted to be. And in the climax of the episode she brags about how she knew she'd get there. Which imo completely explains how she knew she'd get out. Sure she had no clue about Lore, or in reality if she would break free, but she had faith,and acted with that confidence only that kind of person could deliver in such a situation.
I attended one of the Star Trek Las Vegas conventions, and did quite a few of the photo opportunities. Out of them all, Tim Russ was one of the coolest. He was just a kind, genuine dude, like I was talking to an old friend. Love that guy!
I think that whole conversation between Picard and Crusher was intended for Vadic to overhear. The part about giving information she wants them to have raised a flag for me. What if they’re doing that? What if they wanted her to escape when they lowered the forcefield to shoot her (and Lore’s meddling just did it early)? What if they wanted her to take the ship so she’d lead them to Riker/Troi/Tuvok, expose her plan, so they can stop her?
I had the same feeling. They made a point of showing that Vadic was listening in on that conversation, as though that's what they (Picard & Crusher) wanted
Yes, I agree- I think Picard and Crusher spoke as if they wanted Vadic to think they were going to kill her - presumably so she’d give them more info (?)… Lore meddled before they could “follow through.”
Came here to comment just that. It felt too obvious, too forced. If they retcon that the down for that should be taken back. (I'd not it's more than deserved) Will be interesting to see if it's all indeed a trap inside a trap.
Vadic said one of them, the changlings, had to steal the cure but it was Bashir who stole it from Slone’s brain and gave it to Odo because he was his friend.
Yeah nothing really makes sense about her back story… Not even to mention that so far no changeling ever even felt so strongly about humans that they would torture themselves to get back at them and how on earth dis they even capture 9 changelings to begin with when during the dominion war only few changelings ever entered the alpha quadrant
Two more ups from me: - The jackets Shaw and Jack wear look awesome. I wonder if Shaw's jacket is the current regulation "Captain's wear" like the green tunic Kirk had or the jacket Picard sometimes wore on TNG - As soon as Shaw gets jumped and sees Vadic in the Turbolift he doesn't even hesitate to immediately order the crew to "blow the Turbolift!" meaning what I assume is to jettison the Turbolift. There was no hesitation to blast himself into space if it meant saving the ship. You could argue that's expected of a Captain but I think Shaw deserves a lot of credit for that. Not a moments hesitation when it came to it.
I feel the scientist/torturer is another example of how much Starfeelt has changed since the Borg, Dominion War, and attack on Mars. All through Picard we have seen a more isolated and imperal feel. Plus the more people know about section 31 and condone them, the easier it is for that sickness to spread
As a TNG/DS9/Voyager fanatic this episode hit me harder than the rest. I can see if you have not done your homework how this episode would have fallen short, but this is among the best ST to date. Vadic's exposition here was unbelievably good. What struck me the most (and I had to realize this through reviewers like yourself) was that history is written by the victors. Bashir stole the cure.. But Odo delivered it. Depending on which side of history you stand on, biases will dictate your interptrataion. Everything about this episode took the light and fluffy nature of 90's Star Trek - Even its depiction of war - And twisted it into the cold and hard reality of truth. It was painful and squimish, but ultimately correct... The writing on this season, so far, is next level and should be up for awards of some sort
There's absolutely no punches being pulled in this season, that's for sure. Even in DS9 there was still some softening of the subjects being spoken about in each episode, but this season of Picard? Holy hell. It's been gut wrenching from the opening scenes.
@Your Soul Knows I disagree. DS9, especially its depiction of War, Section 31, war crimes and culpability was second to none due to its nuanced depiction and open ending questions it asked for and myriad answers it drew you to. Picard is neither nuanced nor open. It's very contradictory though. Why is it considered important that Beverly question whether she should kill Vadic who has tried to kill her and wants to kidnap her son, but she didn't think twice about vaporising the changelings in the first episode.
@@shevaunhandley1543 I would watch In the pale Moonlight and Far Beyond the Stars anyday of week over this. Those were very unsettling episodes. Sharper and deeper than anything these writers could dream of.
I think Picard's illness was something left over from his time as Locutus when the Borg were altering his DNA. Something that was passed down to his son. And whatever this was, the changelings are using the transporters to spread it. Essentially making everyone in Starfleet one step away from being a drone. Jack is basically a new type of Borg queen, connecting to a drone when he saved Sydney.
Picard's illness was from well before he captained the Enterprise. This is why he called the Stargazer's doctor for help in season 1 as only he would know about it
I'm REALLY waiting to see if Lal becomes a major thing that changes stuff for 'new Data'. The fact that they mentioned her, but now are pointedly NOT mentioning her at all, makes me think she'll play a part later.
TrekCulture: “That’s not Tuvok and the Changelings are further along than you think.” J/k, it was nice to see him again. The Voyager crew felt more like family so there’s more nostalgia than seeing the TNG crew.
Its kind of telling that neither Raffi nor Worf appeared in this episode. Pretty certain next episode will wind back the clock slightly and have them springing Riker and Troi, and taking control of the Shrike.
Not having Worf, Troi, or Raffi on this episode was specifically for budget reasons, which is why we had a bottle episode. Riker made the briefest of appearances in this episode for that very reason, as well.
@@aveamicis wow. The thought of Worf at the helm of the Defiant coming in to save the day… or better yet “yeah maybe your voyager crew is compromised… but my old pals from DS9 are here to help”…. I also had the thought when they said “all the star fleet ships are connected”… what about the OLDER ships!? Can we pull 1701-A out of mothballs? Or Voyager? God, I would die.
@@trachysa Dude, I think whatever is coming is going to be massive and we’re all going to be dewy-eyed by the end. This is the best Star Trek story arc ever!
My huge complaint about this episode: WHY did Geordi connect Data/Lore to the Titan when it became obvious that Lore was becoming the dominant personality?
He needed the ship's computing power to diagnose Data/Lore... the real question is why Starfleet doesn't seem to believe in any sort of computer security as it seems any AI that so much as glances at one of their starships can take full control. I mean, they should at least invest in a VPN? Maybe throw in some of those pictures where you have to click ones that have the same thing in them.
Your right. Geodi should have disconnected Data/Lore from Titan when connection was not necessary for further questioning. However, with Lore in control, he likely could just reconnect to Titan's computers.
There was a line from Geordi about how the Data/Lore android was more advanced than what he had previously seen, but he also mentioned starting up "cognitive routines only". He thought he had control of the situation, but he didn't. That's not exactly unprecedented so I gave them a pass on that.
Anyone else catch that Vadic takes the appearance of the scientist that did experiments/torture to her and this is the same as Odo taking the face of Dr. Mora. Just an interesting tidbit and I wonder if it will have significance going forward.
@@kanton4108 Correct, and Odo definitely had some animosity towards Dr. Mora, not to the same level, but very interesting they both choose to appear as the face of their torturer/experimenter? Not sure what to call Dr. Mora.
I love the way the show captures an ensemble effect; the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. There is a feeling of finality, a swan song if you will, for this legendary ensemble. I really think that they have struck all the right chords without being sappy in this season long epic movie. The acting and the special effects are extraordinary.
Section 31 trying to create the perfect spy is absolutely in character. Starfleet turning a blind eye. Absolutely in character. All that blowing up in their face, absolutely in character. - up
Maybe when Vadic cuts off Gloopy Head, she separates the Changeling part of her form into Gloopy Head, and what remains is largely the former Section 31 torturer who is now the victim.
A great episode. tons of fan service in this series but well earned and appreciated by this fan. The best of Sci fi is when they look beyond the we're the good guys and we won and looks at the grey areas and fallout. This series has done that in a great way. Not destroying the characters we love but showing their dark sides and the repercussions . i think all of it fleshes all of the characters out more. Data and Geordi nearly brought me to tears. totally knew he was going to pop up at the right moment but it was so beautifully played. the Tuvok rug pull was annoying but great too :D
Has this been mentioned? When Vadic sees Jack, she says: "I thought you were taller." Shinzon meeting Picard in Nemesis: "I'd always imagined you taller. Isn't that odd?"
Your editor is brilliant. Up within hours. Much respect to both of you. Another phenomenal episode. One comment on war crimes...vengence is best served cold.
While exceptionally dark and all of the questions of the morality occurring from the backstory for Vadic from 31 can leave you feeling iffy the entire story deserves an Up. Everything is completely within what we can expect from Section 31 and it leaves you realizing how imperfect the federation is behind the scenes and how willing there are those to perform heinous acts. It paints a brilliant picture of how many things Picard thought were true in the Federation are not truly as good as he believes. It's in some respects a callback to Star Trek Insurrection without directly calling it out.
Probably my favorite episode so far. LeVar Burton was stellar and I'm loving the storyline of the family relationship he never had on the show. But, don't take my word for it...
My Saturday now consists of the latest Picard episode, followed by TrekCulture... Love it! This series of Picard has to be the best series in the Star Trek universe ever... Up until now, I was always a DS9 fan, but this series is my reward and far, far, far exceeding my expectations. Just brilliant!!!!
When it comes to Beverly and Jean Luc, they have never contended with an adversary that was out for their child. That is unquestionably going to change how they make decisions with moral implications.
I disagree about what version of Data we are dealing with. He was confused about not being on the enterprise. That, to me, tells me it’s the Data Data copied into B4 in Nemesis-before his death on the Scimitar. Also, it’s a good thing Section 31 created that disease. Imagine how depressing it would be if Voyager returned to a Federation dominated by the Changelings.
Since this was an episode that centered on "Lets set a trap" without cluing the viewer in on what that trap is and ending with the enemy believing they have the upper hand- i think the next episode will show the crew has an ace up their sleeve.
Geordi's biggest mistake when he was begging Data to take over was to not mention Lal. That would have absolutely have brought Data to the forefrontin a heartbeat.
This right here. ✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽 Had Geordi mentioned Lal, hell, Data probably would've roared to the forefront so hard that he'd have somehow deleted Lore's personality engrams *PERMANENTLY*, just so he could do whatever it takes to help Geordi save Sydney. (Heh heh heh heh heh...Crash LaForge...)
Brent Spiner was the highlight of the episode for me, the way he can show who we're dealing with without saying a word is marvellous. The conversation between Krusher and Picard was strange to me, not only the fact that Picard agreed to killing but that they had it infront of Vadic, it left me wondering if it's part of the plan to have her take over the ship.
The Changeling torture scene (while grotesque) was a huge thumbs up. It gives the Federation a dark side, no show not even DS9 touched upon. It gives the impression that the Federation has had dark moments in storied history.
Hopefully not as a Changeling, I like to hope that the reason no one knows how to contact her is because she realized something was up and is working on her own for a solution
I feel like Ups and Downs needs a Janeway counter given the number of times they've mentioned her. I want to say we're up to four. Seven mentioned her in episode one. An ensign mentioned her in the Ten Forward flashback. Picard suggested to Roe that they go to her. Seven mentions her during the opening scene. Not going to lie, Janeway showing up, only to be revealed to be a Changeling would be amazing. It would only be outdone by her turning out to be pretending to be a changeling.
@@Daggoth65 oh come on.....Amanda Plummer can't be the only one chewing up the scenery! Can you imagine if she did come back as a Changling?!! Such great television
I took that Crusher and Picard conversation about “executing” Vadic as being staged for the purpose of scaring her into telling them the full Founders’ plans, but Lore interrupted everything by shutting down things on the ship to create chaos.
I was rewatching s4 ep12 of DS9 "Paradise Lost" and the changeling that Sisko meets in the park gave off the same kind of energy that Vadic has. Wondering if it was Vadic, as they did say there were only 4 changelings on Earth at the time, and if Vadic was a prisoner of war, it's very likely they were captured from that small group. Would be an interesting call back if it was.
I can't say one way or another about the research on changelings. We do know there is precedent for it, because that's what Mora Pol was doing to Baby Odo. And, like Vadic taking the likeness of the doctor, Odo mimicked Dr Pol. Edit: I think one of my favorite things about these videos is that Kris increases the brightness of the screenshots. This season has been too dark, physically. You can't see what's going on. Ever.
Janeway has been name-dropped so many times in this season that I will be disappointed if we don’t get an appearance from her in some way, even if she’s a changeling.
I'm very surprised there was no discussion about Vadic's line to Dr Crusher about how Jack was never meant for her. It heavily implies two major points - first that Jack's birth was NOT accidental and second she is merely working on behalf of someone else. I'm willing to bet that the big bad all along was Lore. He is who Vadic is talking to and has been pulling the strings this whole time.
I don't know if Lore is the instigator - but we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Changelings were on Daystrom Station, and therefore had access to Date/Lore, along with everything else at the station. It wouldn't be unreasonable to believe the Changeling agents would mess with the AI running the show, and the logical avenue would be through the Lore half of Data's Jekyl/Hyde personality. It would be hedging their bets to have done some "rewiring" of Lore's programming, expressly to help their cause.
@@twisterjester Not even rewiring. This is Lore we're talking about. Remember what he did with the Borg? They would only need to play to his conceit and narcissism and get him to go along with what ever the plan is. He may even add to it, but yea I'm not seeing Lore as the instigator.
Well let's think about. Are there any other people in star trek lore that we know who were born "belonging" to another. I can think of one. He was the emissary to the prophets. He had some not quite corporeal abilities if I recall. Why couldn't Jack the son of the man who killed the emissarys wife be emissary to the pagh wraith? Its just a theory based on the galaxy destroying ball of fire last season, that jacks voices keep saying find us, that red setting during his visio... I mean hallucinations, oh and the possessed goo head vadic speaks to. Sadly I'm likely wrong though 🤣
@@thrasher930 I like that idea! It would make sense as well. Would also give them the pretext to have Sisko show up towards the end. I would like this even more, but feel that would be adding too much to the already full cast of characters. Lore helping the enhanced changelings escape and plan makes sense to me and doesn't involve adding more to the mix. I do like your idea better though
Dude, I love your reviews of all Star Trek. Your passion just shines through. Your reviews are the only ones worth watching. Keep up the outstanding work
It's very rare that an actor does such an *EXCELLENT* job in playing a villain so well that I wish with every fiber of my being to see the character suffer their just dessert in such excoriatingly painful ways. Amanda Plummer had me having those feelings for just about the entire episode. *VERY* well done on her part!
How could you not mention The Smile??! That was the best part of the episode to me. Also, was Tim's dialog the part that Beltran turned down? Tim blew that dialog away with amazing acting!! Great job on the recap. It's always fun to relive the episode with you.
I can just picture it now that they end with Picard, Janeway (and I would not be surprised if Sisko appears) and it is the 3 of them facing the rest down in the climax. Certainly they are overly hinting Janeway this season. All we need is a cameo from O'Brien now. He surely has to make an appearance.
Really getting Armus vibes from The Face now. It's an amorphous form with a gravelly voice, fueled by immeasurable hated. It has a vendetta against Picard and the crew that left him abandoned and sealed away. They haven't yet had a call back to Tasha, and it would be weird to do a TNG reunion without a reference to Yar at all. Lastly, they're setting up Data with the goal of integrating his dark side. What would be a better way to do that than to ultimately avenge his lover's death?
Can we all agree that with all this mention of Janeway that it would be so incredible to make her the main of one of these episodes? Leading a mission of some rescue with Harry Kim. Not just a 2 - 5 minute thing. But a considerable side plot!
Like Seven and Janeway connect, they read her in on what’s going on… then you have Janeway leading a group of familiar faces. It being the key to solving some problem that helps to stop all this stuff from unraveling. In a way only Janeway could.
I'm hoping we'll see her when we get to Frontier Day. They've alluded to her being involved with the planning of that a few times. I would be surprised if she doesn't know about the changeling threat, though. She was a science officer and always paid attention to details. We'll have to see what the next episodes bring.
You're slipping my friend. Tim Russ was a member of Captain Sulu's bridge crew in The Undiscovered Country back in 1991. 32 years ago, 2 years prior to his 1993 appearance on Next Generation. Just putting that out there.
Did anyone catch at the end when Vadik is addressing the crew she says “I am Vadik.” But the manner in which she says it almost implies she’s almost questioning or trying to convince herself of that identity?
Other possibility: Because Vadik can spread her "evolved" abilities by merging with others and her hate for Starfleet, what if she overwrites there personalities with copies of her own? Creating clones of herself. Saying I am Vadik could be the equivalent of "I'm the original, I'm the boss".
In JROTC and Police Explorers, I learned two concepts that seem to contradict but do in fact complement each other. The rules of engagement are geared around the neutralization of the enemy while giving him some dignity in defeat; conversely any person confined and detained in your custody is your charge and any injury that befalls him is on you. So Doctor Mengele at Daystrom Station has "blood" on her hands and that runs all the way up the flagpole. We do not torture. It's a moral law.
Thinking back to Vadics story, I have two theories: I think that Vadic don’t just kill the Doctor, I think she absorbed the doctor and immeshed herself into/over her dna/solid form. Like the monster in The Blob but Vadic can “spit her out” and reform the doctor temporarily. (Her human form has weird veins, and cutting off her hand) …I reminded about Jack mentioning the Japanese cup that was broken and rejoined with gold. The veins on Vadics face are like the gold holding the broken cup together. My second theory is that we know Changlings have a warped viewpoint: what if the doctor didn’t know what she was experimenting on? Her whistling could be because she had no idea she was experimenting on a fully sentient creature. Like the episode when Bashir wanted a piece of Odo to try and make transplantable organs. These small pieces could’ve even started out as non-sentient but slowly grew fully conscious over time (like a starfish or worm that can regrow when cut… or one of Data’s neurons that could “regrow” Data!)
Thanks again guys. Yea I’m loving this season too. Just one thing drives me nuts about the Picard series though - They now have great technology for shooting film in the dark, of which they seem to love perpetually making use, but I’m getting REALLY fed up straining my eyes to see what’s going on in the picture. That is a mega-down for me.
I've had similar thoughts. There seem to be a lot of things in this season that turn around a theme of duality, and the subtext briefly became text in this episode when Geordi made the comment that Alton Soong put Lore and Data together so that they would integrate into something truly human (paraphrasing liberally). But also: Vadic and the hand/blobby guy (I am starting to agree that is a manifestation of Vadic's own personality rather than a separate big-bad character). Shaw is portrayed as both a hardass and a badass. Worf being a warrior pacifist. Jack being some kind of hybrid makes a lot of sense thematically. In addition to the various easter egg clues dropped as well.
Fun Fact: Positrons are the Antimatter equivalent/opposite of Electrons, and get produced in your body every day from the Radioactive Decay of the Potassium that is an integral part of it's construction.
My favourite memory of Tim Russ is admitting during a convention appearance that it used to bug him for what he was most remembered. It had nothing to do with being Tuvok or most of his other projects. It all centred around on line in the Mel Brook classic Spaceballs, in which he played a soldier, literally combing the desert with a giant afro comb (my apologies if it is known by another name) who, when asked if he'd found anything in his search, yell's back to his superior, "I ain't found sh*t!" This apparently followed him for quite some time, despite his costume's helmet hiding most of his features, and he would hear people yelling it to him more often than he thought possible. :D
Great episode!!! Where did the damaged Vulcan ship come from that was part of the ruse to lure Vadic? Where did the audio log come from? Why wasn’t this explained?
Amanda Plumber, has been EPIC this season!! I would NOT change a thing about her character, I LOVE the way she played the part! And you can tell she had fun the WHOLE TIME! This season to me, has just been amazing, I have been on the edge of my seat every, single, episode! And there are only 2 left at this point....I am going to be sad when this season ends. And Brent Spiner, WOW! Oh this season is just of so many beautiful things!
The issue of war atrocities reminds me of the TOS episode where two worlds had been at war for 500 years, and were fighting with computer simulations to eliminate pain and suffering. It teaches us that if you sanitize war to make it more humane, you're also taking away the pain of perpetuating war. War is terrible. War is to be avoided. War should be fought when all other option has been exhausted with the singular purpose of bringing about its end.
I hope they didn't bring back Tim Russ just to play a Changeling, it'll be great if we see the real Tuvok joined with Picards group to save the Federation. Also the guest appearance of Tim Russ also renew my hope that Kate Mulgrew will appear as Katherine Janeway this season of Picard. But most importantly, I want a guest appearance of any DS9 characters this season, I wanted it.
Brent Spiner was fabulous in this episode. How he flipps from Lore to Data so smoothly. He is so incredibly talented.
It's not the first time Data has had many personalities inside him.
One of the most underrated actors ever imo. Mostly wasted by Hollywood because they couldn't see him as anything other than Data for decades. By the time that kind of culture died off (like 5 years ago), he was already an old man! He can sing, he can dance, he can do funny, he can do emotional, he can improv. Anyway, yeah, incredibly talented person appreciated by too few.
if you need a Brent fix, you need to watch Fresh Hell!
@@citizen_wayne Also the show Threshold, only one season but Spiner was great in it.
Can someone explain what vadic meant that one of "her own" had to steal the cure for the changelings? I thought it was Bashir and Obrien who stole it and gave it to odo, NOT the changelings themselves
Vadik is bringing a whole new meaning to the phrase..
"Talk to the hand "
Greetings to Wales.
The old hometown.... Looks the same..
UP!
There is a lot of I think reference to world war 2 Vadic's torturer could be a Dr Josef Mengele. Since I read a story year ago that their is a book that was created by his research that is the best map of the human body and is the best reference. But is it ethical to use it. Due to the way the information is obtained?
It was great to see LeVar Burton given the kind of emotional scene that they couldn't really give him when he was encumbered by the VISOR prop. In 30 years, it had never occurred to me to wonder how Geordi cried with that thing tight on his face; now I have visions of the VISOR grille filling up with tears...
The eyes are the windows to the soul and he deserves a lot of credit for being as expressive as he was with it in TNG, but it's so lovely that they're now taking full advantage of us being able to see them. Only the sunrise scene in Insurrection had previously come close.
Or shorting. He's having a moment and then straight shock to the brain due to some solution getting into the visor causing his vision to go wonky. The more I think about it the more I find ways that something innocuous could be horrifying.
While Insurrection may have been a "Meh" movie for me, the scene with Geordie savoring the sunrise with his own eyes has always been one of my favorite scenes.
I wouldn't be surprised if the tear ducts were surgically removed or electronically suppressed by the VISOR interface. The regenerative effects of the Ba'qu planet would have easily registered Geordi tear ducts as well as eyes.
That also brings an interesting question to things like Worf's spinal surgery and did any of them regrow their Appendix if it was removed.
Can someone explain what vadic meant that one of "her own" had to steal the cure for the changelings? I thought it was Bashir and Obrien who stole it and gave it to odo, NOT the changelings themselves
@@davidt8087 Like Picard, she is revising the history to fit her own narrative. Picard thinks Starfleet gave it to them, she thinks Odo stole it and delivered to them. Both are on opposite sides of the true history and reach that due to their own personal history and view points.
Actually, Shaw’s tear as he lay on the floor of the bridge reminded me of Picard’s tear as he was lying down being assimilated by the Borg and becoming Locutus. Those tears conveyed much more than words could.
The entire episode gave me Borg vibes
@@TheWovenSoul Do you think that the Borg Queen/Agnes Durati will intervene? Also, if she does, which faction will she and her hive support…it’s got to be on the side of Picard and his confrères hasn’t it?🤔. Anything could happen, there’s been so many twists and turns already.
@@mary-kittybonkers2374 One thing about the Borg is I can't see the Founders being able to copy them. At same time, the more traditional Changlings probably can't become assimilated but possibly Vadeck's version can since they are more solid than the traditional Changling. Scary part is if one of the more solid Changlings does get assimilated, than possible the Borg could adapt to either destroy or assimilate the more traditional Changling.
@@hhclinton334 I hope that’s true because I hated the Jurati/Borg Queen too. It just didn’t make sense to me.
@mary-kittybonkers2374 Honestly, the vibes I got were along the Borgs eternal search for perfection. Last season's Agnes New generation Borg didn't even enter my mind lol I'm more inclined to think this is about Borg Changeling assimilation. That it's looking more & more likely, there's remnants of Borg left in Jean-Luc that weren't removed and have been passed onto Jack. I don't think Borg parts can ever fully be eradicated from someone. Even Chakotay had remnants or carry over left from his short assimilation with Borg survivors in Voyager. He could still hear them as a collective until the ship had moved many light years from the planet they were on.
I loved the nod to Odo who also took the appearance of the scientist who experimented on him. Another great episode, quite dark this time but everyone did an amazing job.
also noteworthy is that Odo... didn't HATE the scientist for it. He didn't like the experience, but he quickly came to realize that if that hadn't happened he wouldn't be what he was, and... also... the scientist in Odo's case didn't mean any harm... he legit didn't know what he was messing with.
@@marhawkman303 Dr. Mora didn't know what he was messing with - but in Starfleet's case, they knew exactly how they were genetically messing and torturing with sentient beings. And not with "what", in Mora's case, but actual with "who". Though I wonder how Starfleet got its hands on 10 Changelings when only the Female Changeling was sentenced to prison in 50-year blocks.
For a second I though Vadic WAS the Female Changeling.....
@@savianedesigns6025 In DS9 it was mentioned as a throw-away line the Odo wasn't the only Changeling sent by the Founders to the AQ. It's possible that some of the dozens sent were still in dormant forms at the end of the Dominion War..... since the Founders had no way to actually contact them.
The Vadic backstory is awesome. Plummer really chewed up the scenery with that.
Vadic's scene and Jeri Ryan at the beginning of the episode were the two bright spots of this very weak episode.
I actually found myself rooting for Vadic to succeed. Well, to an extent. I don't want the Federation to be destroyed, but this episode almost had me feeling that Star Fleet deserved to be eliminated, leaving the Federation that benefitted from Star Fleet's criminal actions to suffer the consequences of life without Star Fleet to look out for them.
@@kerouac.jackson I felt sorry for her and for what Section 31 did to the other Changelings. And the revisionist history that was told. That Starfleet infected them but compassionately delivered the cure. What a load of BS. I only watched DS9 and only small parts of TNG and VOY along with the new movies. I know many purists didn't like Star Trek Into Darkness but I felt sorry for Khan in a way. But it's not enough to make to excuse Vadic or Khan and give them carte blanche to destroy the Federation. For the Kelvin Timeline and Prime, the enemy here is Section 31. Those members need to be exposed and expelled with the information made public.
@@kerouac.jackson What section 31 did to her and a handful of others ia nothing compared to the brutallity the "great link", which she was apart of, put countless of entire planetary populations through out the Gamma quadrant through for thousands of years. The Vorta and Jem'Hadars where litterally programmed into obeying their orders, regardless of what they personally wanted. And we saw the complete utter lack of empathy the Changellings had for _anyone_.
Had Worf been in the room, he would have reminded her of that. Vadic's reasoning is bullshit. She already hated "solids" before her capture.
@@Mukation yes this is what I hate. Why do none of the characters call the changelings out on their flawed logic. Doesn't make what the federation did good but we all saw what the dominion did to at least one world that challenged them. As far as the federation and section 31 knew that is what was a waiting them, hell the dominion may have been in the process of making it and star fleet just beat them to the punch. I would really love to see someone challenge the founders on this. Even when odo was talking to Cisco about the virus Cisco never counters or points out the dominion is no better.
The amount of Star Trek knowledge that Sean displays when he analyses that Vadic/Crusher/Picard scene is incredible. And he did it seemingly effortlessly just a few hours after the episode aired. What a feat!
I get the impression that this is a group of fans chatting and making their points as the script for these videos is being made, and Sean is probably the best speaker out of the group, hence why he's delivering the videos.
The thing I wish the most is that Shaw becomes the one person that performs the heroic act that saves the Federation by the end of the season. That he would become a thing that he struggles to understand about Picard and Riker. That he would not hate himself for being one of the people that was spared, but instead realize that his life had a purpose that he fulfilled. And most importantly, to avenge his crew and ship!!
For Shaw to write himself into the position of Federation saviour - in the same way Picard and Riker have been in the past - would be delicious, especially given what he said to them in previous episodes.
I would love this!!!
You know, there is that possibility, with the look on his face when he’s lying on the bridge floor.
This would be amazing. I don't know why nobody is mentioning this, but Shaw clearly says "Blow the turbolift!" before his comm cuts out. He was prepared to die, right then and there, to save the bridge/ship and his crew. So, there is a hero in him. 100%. Whether he fully sheds that cocoon and turns into a captain of old remains to be seen. But I, like you, certainly hope so.
@@citizen_wayne - Just because somebody is rude or even hateful - doesn't mean they don't care about important things. He could save everybody selflessly while still being exactly what he is. Even 'enemy' soliders die to save their friends.
Levar Burton’s performance of Geordi’s emotion packed pleading and desperation in willing Data to come forward and suppress Lore was just amazing. His depiction of Geordi’s heartfelt emotions was very moving. This episode engaged me more than any other because of the amazing characters and their stellar acting but also the depth of the writing which dealt with the difficult topic of morality in warfare; also knocking the Federation off its perfect moral and ethical perch.
This season really gets better and better. No kid gloves on here, just a really good dramatic Science Fiction story with a solid cast, solid writing and fantastic visuals.
This episode was, to put it plainly, marvelous. It was heavy, it was impactful, it gave us a lot, and the acting was superb. The sheer amount of emotion LeVar Burton poured into this episode was incredible. From the little quaver in his voice when he said how he can't go through losing Data again, to the raw emotion when he was pleading with Data to hear him and help him, I cannot find enough good things to say about his performance in this episode.
I wouldn't exactly give Jean-Luc a down for agreeing that they could be the executioners of Vadic's fate. Beverly, it is completely understandable; and Jean-Luc, over the past few weeks, has come to understand what it means to feel for his son. He may not have been there for everything they went through, but Jack is his son and as his father, he is admitting that he can do anything to protect him. This is essentially his version of Sisko's "Because I can live with it" speech. He has his Starfleet ideals, yes, but this is the creature who's been trying to hurt his child.
I sympathized SO MUCH with Vadic as she told her story, and it made me understand. I cannot fathom how Starfleet could allow what was done to her and the other changelings. Torture and experimentation on POWs is NOT the Starfleet we know. But you cannot by any stretch of the imagination believe that what was being done to them was happening without any knowledge at all. SOMEONE in Starfleet had to know what was going on. If I were Vadic, and I had gone through what she went through, I'd be champing at the bit to get my revenge on those who tortured me as well. Whoever in Starfleet turned a blind eye to what was going on, they have a hell of a lot to answer for. During that whole scene, I legit got angry at Starfleet for allowing this to happen.
And finally, big kudos to the writers for keeping us guessing about Jack. We're 7 episodes in and we still don't know what his deal is; is he a Pah Wraith in disguise? Is he some sort of weird Borg offshoot? Is he secretly a Breen and is just cranky 'cuz it's too warm? We don't know, and that's not the best part. The best part is that we WANT to know. It doesn't feel stale. It doesn't feel like we're being dragged along. We're not sitting here going "oh ffs will you just get to the point already?" The writing is fresh and keeps us engrossed in the story, and the writers deserve massive cheers for doing such a wonderful job of keeping us engaged. Like Sean said, I cannot wait for next week. I want to know what is going on with Jack.
For me, the tear from Shaw was the most powerful moment of the show, though there were plenty for certain. I think that scene set up the potential for huge character development in the future, and I hope it becomes so.
I was really worried we were going to lose Capt Shaw this episode. I hope he in it for the long run...wouldn't mind if that goes beyond Picard.
Vadic made a comment how she felt what she was doing was inevitable, like a river taking different roads all to the same goal. It speaks to her religious conviction to her goals. She wasn't expecting Lore to do something, just that the "universe" would provide a way.
That's a fair point.
She's also smart enough not to give anything away. Being confident, no matter the situation, is exactly how you want to behave when captured.
Maybe I would have to watch it again but I felt like the force fields being weakened was being announced enough for Vadic to sense an opportunity would be coming. Not that she knew about Lore.
I'm not religious but whenever Lore is around he's going to do something chaotic. He's an android Loki
She and Lore were at Daystrom for years.
What Jack has (feels very extradimensional, with the Red Door & 'Come home' head voice) is something Jean-Luc had (the human remains still has) since the diagnosis for the syndrome he had to worry about was called into question.
It made me think, "how did Jean-Luc get this alien 'aspect'?" Was it on some mission, either while on the Stargazer where he was probably diagnosed with it by the then doctor on the ship who made a cameo in the first season, or maybe before before he became captain?
Then it make me wonder, "what if it goes further back?"
What if Jean-Luc inherited it from his mother? What if the nightmares that drove her insane were derived from the same source as Jack's nightmares?
I like this theory, my pet theory has been that the prophets have a part in this, they have form for going back into the past and manipulating linear beings to bring about people that they need for their purposes.
I honestly hoped it was just a mundane thing. It's important for our intrepid heroes to have more mundane ailments (even if they have to be Treknobabble to be untreatable with Federation medical science). I was honestly hoping Jack was just suffering some mental illness and wasn't some macguffin.
I looked into IMDb, to see if I could find the name of the syndrome that Picard was thought to have ('It may have been misdiagnosed').
For the 2nd Season episode, "Fly Me to the Moon", it shows a pic (at the top of the web page for that episode, next to the trailer) of his mother Renee lying on the ground. She had dark red, vine/veins under/in her skin from the eyes, mouth, up the neck and along her hands.
They've improved on the CGI effects for Season 3. 😁
Irumodic syndrome, that holds some answers. Picard suffers from it and Jack got it from him. But is more than a mere disease, maybe is something that Q gave, via DNA, to Picard, to be able to fight a threat in the future. Just a thought.
I think it was something caused by Picard's assimilation, not as just a Borg, but specifically as Locutus of Borg, something "more" than a mere drone would probably need specialized neurological restructuring, which, post-assimilation, could be mistaken as a precursor to Irumodic Syndrome.
In Best of Both Worlds, Dr. Crusher did make a comment about how Picard's DNA is being "re-written". Maybe it didn't revert back completely after he was freed.
To tell you that I *screamed* when I saw Tim Russ is an understatement. I fully squealed and had to pause in my excitement so I didn't miss anything. As much as _ST: Enterprise_ with Archer and the NX-01 was my first, _ST: Voyager_ will always be my favourite. I love seeing my VOY boys.
Also, yet _another_ mention of Admiral Janeway AND STILL NO LIVE ACTION JANEWAY T-T I KNOW SHE'S IN ANIMATED FORM RN BUT LEMME SEE SOME LIVE ACTION, *PLEASE!*
Ahem- ok I'm done now.
This opening scene, like most of Terry Matalas' Picard, has great writing and acting. The cat-and-mouse game Seven plays is a roller-coaster with us initially thinking it's Tuvok knowing Seven won at Kal-toh but then he gets tripped up because it didn't know Tuvok used a mind-meld to save Seven in "Infinite Regress".
I liked the opening, but the episode quickly devolved in what looked like would've been a season cliffhanger episode. Sorry I wasn't impressed with this one.
I wonder if that part is also an easter egg for STO players because that mind meld between Seven and Tuvok is also a massive plot point during the Delta Rising story there
The bit that confused me though is that when she said "house of cards like all those games of Kal-toh".... which isn''t a card game. It was either a very clumsy bit of scripting or part of the ruse to test him. But as soon as she said that and he answered I was like "That's not Tuvok, because it's not a card game." Or perhaps it was just me. :)
@@brookead that comment means what it said the game itself is pretty much like trying to make a house of cards your moves are to make the structure as stable as you can until it forms its proper shape and size this is something very few outside of vulcans can do
@@brookead I caught that too. Kal-toh isn't a card game. Which is why Seven hit him with those secondary questions and nailed him.
As much as a absolutely loved this episode, I was almost screaming at my TV after Vadic’s monologue;
“I’m sorry, do the founders have a problem with the capture, torture, and genetic manipulation of other species for personal gain?!? Like, we’re talking about the same Founders here? Leaders of the dominion?”
If I was actually in that room, in that moment, I would be losing my marbles on her.
It’s funny how both sides of any conflict scream about the others war crimes without ever acknowledging their own.
@@HollywoodandWine101 Don’t get me wrong, the virus from DS9, Shaw’s PTSD from wolf 359, Vadic’s torture from section 31, all absolutely brilliantly represented in this season. I could not love this show more then I do right now.
And I’m not even taking away from Vadic’s totally valid position, even Picard himself felt that one. But for a founder to be so blatantly dismissive to her own hypocrisy was a hard pill to swallow for me. The Jem Hadar literally being bred, discarded, and slaughtered by their own, let alone by their enemies, along with the multitude of other genetically bred species in the dominion used as cannon fodder, is kind of a lot to simply look past in order to feel for this one particular changeling. If that makes sense.
@@kevinloomer1858 Don't forget being force addicted to a drug that would kill them if they didn't follow Founders orders.
Yes it is bothering me how they are trying desperately to build sympathy for Changlings. Ignoring all torture, creating slave races and genocide they had done. What section 31 did was bad but pales in what Changlings did.
@@pookhahare I think sympathetic villains who aren’t innocent either are more complex. I don’t think one wrong erases the other but while she has a point in that she was tortured for the sake of experimentation, she’s still very much the villain and revels in her actions. I’m a way she has done more than taken the face of her torturer but has taken her personality as well, needlessly cruel and reveling in the carnage.
I am secretly hoping that the ship getting captured by Vadic and her taking them to where she wants to take Jack is part of Picard's plan. Lore endangering Jack and Sidney probably was a hiccup but all in all I hope this was all a ruse they concocted.
And love the Tuvok appearance here and LeVar's acting. Wow!
Eyes help
I agree, I think the Titan is a trap inside a trap. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to get control of Vadic's ship!
Where is the real katherine janeway amd real tuvok?
Wonder if the Tuvok cameo was the one that Robert Beltran passed up
Hope you're wrong because they already released a clip from next week and (spoilers) there's a pretty high death count. So, if this is all 'part of the plan' it's a pretty shit and short-sighted plan.
Unless of course, what really happened is they tricked them into unknowingly going on the holodeck and they didn't really get onto the bridge. In which case, maybe? But that would be some doing.
Spiner, Burton, Plummer & McFadden - acting was top notch. Loved this episode.
Picard's "I didn't know" was heartbreaking. He was kept out of a lot of important conversations over the course of his career, possibly as a result of his abduction and being forced into the Locutus role, either intentionally or via unconscious bias (or tbh because a Captain doesn't get to know everything that goes down everywhere). Also following Vadic's monologue I definitely had an "Are we the baddies?" moment, wondering how much stuff Starfleet did was S31 and how much was sanctioned. The badmirals are a star trek trope for a reason. Excellent episode, and I genuinely hope it builds to a DS9/VOY heavy spinoff.
I don't think too many in Starfleet were kept apprised of Section 31's doings.
I'm sure that Starfleet Command, or at least Starfleet Ingtelligence, knew of the Changeling POW's, but not of Section 31's experiments. That said, in cases like this, willful ignorance is just as bad as complicit sanctioning. The very day Bashir learned of S31's existence, he told Starfleet how dangerous this organization could be to the security of the Federation. But nooooo, let's not listen to the genetically modified man, he has no idea what he's talking about. Apathetic bloody admirals, I've no sympathy at all.
Discussing a moral dilemma in an engaging story is classic Trek. I love this.
Sean, thank you for staying up so late to chat with everyone.
I loved seeing Tim Russ back, and that little crack of a smile when Seven called him out… great!
I always felt Tuvok was underused.
I think this episode really highlights a running theme that's been going since Picard started. There's always been undercurrents of it in Star Trek, but Picard has really brought it into the foreground. The idea that the Federation is just like any other nation, and it's the constant, enduring efforts of people like Kirk and Picard, those who serve as it's moral champions, that keeps it on the straight and narrow. But you can never actually defeat cruelty and corruption, you can just keep pushing it back, and it will always lurk in the shadows.
This is one of the darkest episode in Star Trek.
Look and Vice Admiral Nora Satie she was one of those kind and what she did on the Enterprise but I hate how Picard et al don't distinquish Section 31 from starfleet, Vaddic I understand she's an abuse victim
we were blessed to have Tim Russ come to our local SFF fan run convention over a decade ago. Really cool guy
The scene with La Forge pleading with Lure or Data for help brought tears to my eye. What fantastic and wonderful acting on LeVar Burton's part here as a father I can totally understand his pleading and being desperate for help. And then the scene where data says I'm here Gorde warms my heart. But then later when you see the Captain Shaw get thrown onto the deck of the bridge I actually said out loud you better not kill off this character. I really hope that they don't do that.
When Capt. Shaw was thrown out of the Turbo Lift and onto the bridge, we did see the tear coming out of his eye. Did anyone else remember when Picard was being assimilated? Did you notice the tear coming from his eye?
For Shaw this is the worst possible outcome. Losing total control of his ship and his crew after what happened at Wolf 359. It’s his nightmare.
yeah he cried, he just lost his ship and his crew, all from trusting picard.
@@nel1962 Yea..I'm starting to like Shaw. I liked when he was like "engaging fire" made me laugh..but still. This isn't the star trek i remmeber, but it's better so far than season 1/2 and SNW, and a trillion infinite times better than discardery 🤮. Prodigy is good, and I'm not a fan of lower decks. I always have to quickly jump to an early season episode of voyager or ds9 (sometimes) to cleanse myself after new trek, even Picard season 3 as "good" as it is, but it's missing the point of trek
@@davidt8087 What the hell is wrong with SNW?
I thought the same thing. Is Shaw being ‘converted’?
My guess is that Jack inherited the Borg ability to create a hivemind, but with whom he wishes. The vines are his mind reaching out to find another entity to merge with, and today we saw it happen. My guess
And that‘s the skill she is Looking to add to her bad changeling collective.
I need to rewatch, but are her faction cut off from the great link? If so, even more heartbreaking in that Vadic and co are simply trying to get back home to the people they are cut off from forever. How traumatising that must be after such a connection
@Patrick Evans didn't she say she passed on her condition to changelings she linked with, and that it caused pain and a shorter life? Guessing she doesn't want to sacrifice the whole link.
I called those "vines" blood vessels or _veins_ early on and Popcast who has seen the entire series replied and said they chose the word vines very carefully to not give any spoilers. So that leads me to believe that I am on the right track.
Hands down you have the best trek content on UA-cam. Always look forward to your videos. Keep up the great work!
I want to say up to Vadic's backstory in the willingness to show they are still monsters within Humanity. It was also just brilliantly presented. The way it was shot was intentionally disjointed and meant to convey to the audience the unvarnished horror of it especially with that haunting whistling of "Three Blind Mice".
But it also shows that Odo might have gone through something more burtal than we were lead to believe. It might not have been this cruel but Odo did the same thing as Vadic in choosing a likeness
Feel like you missed an up for Capt. Shaw calling for them to blow the turbolift trying to sacrifice himself for his ship and crew.
I'll remind people that Sisko (the DS9 hero) in one episode raked Worf through the coals for fighting on when that put civilians at risk in Rules of Engagement, while compromising an entire ecosystem to get a low priority fugitive.
He also was an accessory after the fact for murder, smuggling weapons of mass destruction to a known criminal etc. in Pale Moonlight.
Archer once pirated civilians, stranding them years away from the nearest port - and, as far as we know, never came back to pick them up when the mission was over.
My point is that, in Star Trek, the characters' moral compass often depends on the plot.
Season 3 enterprise was the beginning of what was to come in future trek. Awful stories of war and destruction.
Nah, those people deserved it
Later series had way more freedom with ambiguous decisions and were better for it. Even Janeway had to bend/break the Prime Directive when she saw fit. I like to think Gene didn't want Picard, or even Kirk for that matter, to betray themselves. Picard was always about justice and diplomacy, not vengence or righteous murder. I get that this was an unstable and dangerous individual but this scene with Beverly, convincing themselves to kill her, was hard to believe and could have been left out.
I hate For The Uniform.
Archer had no choice. The human race was at stake.
I think usually in a lot of these sorts of episodes the writers think they go the moral choice right. But they didn’t.
The thing that makes me more hard-nosed about the changelings is having recently binge watched deep space nine through the dominion war. And it is so heart wrenching to go one episode after another, after another, and see the suffering. I think that is the benefit of going weekly in that it allows you to process it. But when you binge watch it, it can be more traumatic to deal with things where you see so many people suffering.
I do wish Picard had raised the issue 2 Starfleet officers risked their own safety and careers to get that cure to Odo. I also wish these Changelings were as formidable as the DS9 era ones. They make a point that these are more powerful, but they clearly are not. DS9 era Changelings could casually bypass Federation sensors. You needed to basically hit them with wide beam phasers to reveal them. And bleeding was never an issue, it was keeping their "blood" looking like blood after it was separated from them that was the issue. Heck, DS9 era Changelings could catch up to Runabouts at WARP. The idea even a John Wick type Jack with a phaser could be casually taking them on would be silly.
I feel the down for Vadic seemingly knowing that Lore was going to do that was a lil unfair, especially when you skip over her monologue at the climax of the episode where she explained exactly how she knew.
"I warned you it would end this way, you could have spared yourselves then where you are now...
...to be mutable, fluid, means knowing what the river knows, that there are many ways to the same sea. So here we are, where we were always going."
She knew it would happen, not literally, but spiritually, she had faith that because she's 'right' she'd end up exactly where she wanted to be. And in the climax of the episode she brags about how she knew she'd get there. Which imo completely explains how she knew she'd get out. Sure she had no clue about Lore, or in reality if she would break free, but she had faith,and acted with that confidence only that kind of person could deliver in such a situation.
I attended one of the Star Trek Las Vegas conventions, and did quite a few of the photo opportunities. Out of them all, Tim Russ was one of the coolest. He was just a kind, genuine dude, like I was talking to an old friend. Love that guy!
Agreed! I met Tim in person as well. Great down to earth guy!
Janeway has been mentioned in almost every episode this season of Picard. Did anyone else notice this?
Yes, I believe we'll see her. Also, hoping for a DS9 character.
I can almost guarantee the pay off is coming. We'll see Janeway soon enough. Even if it's the last episode.
@@ThePixelExpedition I hope so. Last episode was not as good.
I really hope Ms Mulgrew will make an appearance!
@@thomasjmitchell2306 yeah, Morn would be great. Imagine those conversations... 😁
I'm quite impressed how the changelings / Tuvok were not gleaned from the trailers and able to be a surprise.
I think that whole conversation between Picard and Crusher was intended for Vadic to overhear. The part about giving information she wants them to have raised a flag for me. What if they’re doing that? What if they wanted her to escape when they lowered the forcefield to shoot her (and Lore’s meddling just did it early)? What if they wanted her to take the ship so she’d lead them to Riker/Troi/Tuvok, expose her plan, so they can stop her?
I had the same feeling. They made a point of showing that Vadic was listening in on that conversation, as though that's what they (Picard & Crusher) wanted
Yes, I agree- I think Picard and Crusher spoke as if they wanted Vadic to think they were going to kill her - presumably so she’d give them more info (?)… Lore meddled before they could “follow through.”
Totally agree
Came here to comment just that. It felt too obvious, too forced. If they retcon that the down for that should be taken back. (I'd not it's more than deserved) Will be interesting to see if it's all indeed a trap inside a trap.
Nice point - it does have that TNG season cliff-hanger feel to it.
Vadic said one of them, the changlings, had to steal the cure but it was Bashir who stole it from Slone’s brain and gave it to Odo because he was his friend.
Yeah nothing really makes sense about her back story…
Not even to mention that so far no changeling ever even felt so strongly about humans that they would torture themselves to get back at them and how on earth dis they even capture 9 changelings to begin with when during the dominion war only few changelings ever entered the alpha quadrant
Well she's crazy what Do you expect
She's clearly being selective about her memories here, reinterpreting and spinning things to match her own agenda.
@@bingobongo1615 Section 31 has its ways, I'm sure.
Two more ups from me:
- The jackets Shaw and Jack wear look awesome. I wonder if Shaw's jacket is the current regulation "Captain's wear" like the green tunic Kirk had or the jacket Picard sometimes wore on TNG
- As soon as Shaw gets jumped and sees Vadic in the Turbolift he doesn't even hesitate to immediately order the crew to "blow the Turbolift!" meaning what I assume is to jettison the Turbolift. There was no hesitation to blast himself into space if it meant saving the ship.
You could argue that's expected of a Captain but I think Shaw deserves a lot of credit for that. Not a moments hesitation when it came to it.
I feel the scientist/torturer is another example of how much Starfeelt has changed since the Borg, Dominion War, and attack on Mars. All through Picard we have seen a more isolated and imperal feel. Plus the more people know about section 31 and condone them, the easier it is for that sickness to spread
As a TNG/DS9/Voyager fanatic this episode hit me harder than the rest. I can see if you have not done your homework how this episode would have fallen short, but this is among the best ST to date.
Vadic's exposition here was unbelievably good. What struck me the most (and I had to realize this through reviewers like yourself) was that history is written by the victors. Bashir stole the cure.. But Odo delivered it. Depending on which side of history you stand on, biases will dictate your interptrataion.
Everything about this episode took the light and fluffy nature of 90's Star Trek - Even its depiction of war - And twisted it into the cold and hard reality of truth. It was painful and squimish, but ultimately correct...
The writing on this season, so far, is next level and should be up for awards of some sort
You are spot on... thanks for this. I agree wholeheartedly!
There's absolutely no punches being pulled in this season, that's for sure. Even in DS9 there was still some softening of the subjects being spoken about in each episode, but this season of Picard? Holy hell. It's been gut wrenching from the opening scenes.
@Your Soul Knows I disagree. DS9, especially its depiction of War, Section 31, war crimes and culpability was second to none due to its nuanced depiction and open ending questions it asked for and myriad answers it drew you to. Picard is neither nuanced nor open. It's very contradictory though. Why is it considered important that Beverly question whether she should kill Vadic who has tried to kill her and wants to kidnap her son, but she didn't think twice about vaporising the changelings in the first episode.
@@shevaunhandley1543 I would watch In the pale Moonlight and Far Beyond the Stars anyday of week over this. Those were very unsettling episodes. Sharper and deeper than anything these writers could dream of.
I think Picard's illness was something left over from his time as Locutus when the Borg were altering his DNA. Something that was passed down to his son. And whatever this was, the changelings are using the transporters to spread it. Essentially making everyone in Starfleet one step away from being a drone.
Jack is basically a new type of Borg queen, connecting to a drone when he saved Sydney.
It's The Borg! Forget all of that weird shit on the Stargazer. The REAL Borg are still out there. And they're coming.
Picard's illness was from well before he captained the Enterprise. This is why he called the Stargazer's doctor for help in season 1 as only he would know about it
Jack will be the new Locutus.
I really hope this prediction is wrong. The Borg have been overplayed for a long time.
@@tanizaki True, but a new form of Borg would be a welcome twist.
I'm REALLY waiting to see if Lal becomes a major thing that changes stuff for 'new Data'. The fact that they mentioned her, but now are pointedly NOT mentioning her at all, makes me think she'll play a part later.
I was ecstatic to see Tim Russ as Tuvok on this episode. Tuvok was my favorite Voyager character.
TrekCulture: “That’s not Tuvok and the Changelings are further along than you think.” J/k, it was nice to see him again. The Voyager crew felt more like family so there’s more nostalgia than seeing the TNG crew.
I do hope we'll get to see the real Tuvok freed from wherever the Founders are holding him.
@@Nergalsama01 is it even the Founders though?
@@marhawkman303 A rogue faction, but I still like calling them by their original name.
why did the make Tuvok and Warf so old? Don't these species live for like 500 years
Its kind of telling that neither Raffi nor Worf appeared in this episode. Pretty certain next episode will wind back the clock slightly and have them springing Riker and Troi, and taking control of the Shrike.
Not having Worf, Troi, or Raffi on this episode was specifically for budget reasons, which is why we had a bottle episode.
Riker made the briefest of appearances in this episode for that very reason, as well.
As they said that Worf and Raffi will be back soon, this might be a changer in the next episode. Vadic will not see them coming... I hope. 🤔
Have our heroes taken a trip to a familiar space station on the way? 😮
@@aveamicis wow. The thought of Worf at the helm of the Defiant coming in to save the day… or better yet “yeah maybe your voyager crew is compromised… but my old pals from DS9 are here to help”…. I also had the thought when they said “all the star fleet ships are connected”… what about the OLDER ships!? Can we pull 1701-A out of mothballs? Or Voyager? God, I would die.
@@trachysa Dude, I think whatever is coming is going to be massive and we’re all going to be dewy-eyed by the end. This is the best Star Trek story arc ever!
My huge complaint about this episode: WHY did Geordi connect Data/Lore to the Titan when it became obvious that Lore was becoming the dominant personality?
He needed the ship's computing power to diagnose Data/Lore... the real question is why Starfleet doesn't seem to believe in any sort of computer security as it seems any AI that so much as glances at one of their starships can take full control.
I mean, they should at least invest in a VPN? Maybe throw in some of those pictures where you have to click ones that have the same thing in them.
At least fucking sandbox him!
Your right. Geodi should have disconnected Data/Lore from Titan when connection was not necessary for further questioning. However, with Lore in control, he likely could just reconnect to Titan's computers.
There was a line from Geordi about how the Data/Lore android was more advanced than what he had previously seen, but he also mentioned starting up "cognitive routines only". He thought he had control of the situation, but he didn't. That's not exactly unprecedented so I gave them a pass on that.
@@cloud1930 *you're, not "your"
Anyone else catch that Vadic takes the appearance of the scientist that did experiments/torture to her and this is the same as Odo taking the face of Dr. Mora. Just an interesting tidbit and I wonder if it will have significance going forward.
She took the form as a reminder of her hatred towards solids and what was done to them.
☝🏻This!
@@kanton4108 Correct, and Odo definitely had some animosity towards Dr. Mora, not to the same level, but very interesting they both choose to appear as the face of their torturer/experimenter? Not sure what to call Dr. Mora.
Thanks for putting some light in the pictures, it's nice to see what I heard when watching this show
I love the way the show captures an ensemble effect; the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. There is a feeling of finality, a swan song if you will, for this legendary ensemble. I really think that they have struck all the right chords without being sappy in this season long epic movie. The acting and the special effects are extraordinary.
Tin Russ / Tuvok has always been a favorite of mine. It was great to see him back on screen.
Section 31 trying to create the perfect spy is absolutely in character. Starfleet turning a blind eye. Absolutely in character. All that blowing up in their face, absolutely in character. - up
Maybe when Vadic cuts off Gloopy Head, she separates the Changeling part of her form into Gloopy Head, and what remains is largely the former Section 31 torturer who is now the victim.
A great episode. tons of fan service in this series but well earned and appreciated by this fan. The best of Sci fi is when they look beyond the we're the good guys and we won and looks at the grey areas and fallout. This series has done that in a great way. Not destroying the characters we love but showing their dark sides and the repercussions . i think all of it fleshes all of the characters out more. Data and Geordi nearly brought me to tears. totally knew he was going to pop up at the right moment but it was so beautifully played. the Tuvok rug pull was annoying but great too :D
Has this been mentioned? When Vadic sees Jack, she says: "I thought you were taller." Shinzon meeting Picard in Nemesis: "I'd always imagined you taller. Isn't that odd?"
Your editor is brilliant. Up within hours. Much respect to both of you. Another phenomenal episode.
One comment on war crimes...vengence is best served cold.
While exceptionally dark and all of the questions of the morality occurring from the backstory for Vadic from 31 can leave you feeling iffy the entire story deserves an Up. Everything is completely within what we can expect from Section 31 and it leaves you realizing how imperfect the federation is behind the scenes and how willing there are those to perform heinous acts. It paints a brilliant picture of how many things Picard thought were true in the Federation are not truly as good as he believes. It's in some respects a callback to Star Trek Insurrection without directly calling it out.
Probably my favorite episode so far. LeVar Burton was stellar and I'm loving the storyline of the family relationship he never had on the show. But, don't take my word for it...
My Saturday now consists of the latest Picard episode, followed by TrekCulture... Love it! This series of Picard has to be the best series in the Star Trek universe ever... Up until now, I was always a DS9 fan, but this series is my reward and far, far, far exceeding my expectations. Just brilliant!!!!
When it comes to Beverly and Jean Luc, they have never contended with an adversary that was out for their child. That is unquestionably going to change how they make decisions with moral implications.
I disagree about what version of Data we are dealing with. He was confused about not being on the enterprise. That, to me, tells me it’s the Data Data copied into B4 in Nemesis-before his death on the Scimitar.
Also, it’s a good thing Section 31 created that disease. Imagine how depressing it would be if Voyager returned to a Federation dominated by the Changelings.
Love the Tuvok cameo, and yet another Janeway mention.
They keep name dropping Janeway, over and over, and it's starting to get annoying if she doesn't actually appear I have to say.
Since this was an episode that centered on "Lets set a trap" without cluing the viewer in on what that trap is and ending with the enemy believing they have the upper hand- i think the next episode will show the crew has an ace up their sleeve.
Geordi's biggest mistake when he was begging Data to take over was to not mention Lal. That would have absolutely have brought Data to the forefrontin a heartbeat.
This right here. ✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽
Had Geordi mentioned Lal, hell, Data probably would've roared to the forefront so hard that he'd have somehow deleted Lore's personality engrams *PERMANENTLY*, just so he could do whatever it takes to help Geordi save Sydney. (Heh heh heh heh heh...Crash LaForge...)
@@GeZ-DMData had felt loss before, in his own way.
@@GeZ-DM Yeah, no. You clearly weren't paying attention to the episode where Lal was introduced. Data *had* emotions, he just never realized it.
Brent Spiner was the highlight of the episode for me, the way he can show who we're dealing with without saying a word is marvellous. The conversation between Krusher and Picard was strange to me, not only the fact that Picard agreed to killing but that they had it infront of Vadic, it left me wondering if it's part of the plan to have her take over the ship.
Worf and Raffi were “on their way back” at the beginning of the episode. The cavalry I presume.
The Changeling torture scene (while grotesque) was a huge thumbs up. It gives the Federation a dark side, no show not even DS9 touched upon. It gives the impression that the Federation has had dark moments in storied history.
We kinda got that message back in DS9 when the doctor that found Odo shows up and Odo tells his story...
@@PhillipLemmon This was way darker than that moment
@@PhillipLemmon He was a Bajoran scientist working under Cardassian occupation.
Sadly "dark" federation is partly why the first season of picard was such butts :O
@@PhillipLemmon That was a Bajoran scientist not Starfleet or The Federation though. No doubt they all would've behaved deplorably too tho
At this point, it seems fairly obvious that Janeway will be making an actual appearance. She's been name-dropped too many times for her not to appear.
One can only hope.
Hopefully not as a Changeling, I like to hope that the reason no one knows how to contact her is because she realized something was up and is working on her own for a solution
I feel like Ups and Downs needs a Janeway counter given the number of times they've mentioned her. I want to say we're up to four.
Seven mentioned her in episode one.
An ensign mentioned her in the Ten Forward flashback.
Picard suggested to Roe that they go to her.
Seven mentions her during the opening scene.
Not going to lie, Janeway showing up, only to be revealed to be a Changeling would be amazing. It would only be outdone by her turning out to be pretending to be a changeling.
@@Daggoth65 oh come on.....Amanda Plummer can't be the only one chewing up the scenery! Can you imagine if she did come back as a Changling?!! Such great television
@@Daggoth65 I had a darker version in my head... She's become a fusion of an assimilated Borg Queen and Female Changeling hybrid.
I took that Crusher and Picard conversation about “executing” Vadic as being staged for the purpose of scaring her into telling them the full Founders’ plans, but Lore interrupted everything by shutting down things on the ship to create chaos.
Whatever the ambiguities of the episode, the acting was off the charts - from everyone.
I was rewatching s4 ep12 of DS9 "Paradise Lost" and the changeling that Sisko meets in the park gave off the same kind of energy that Vadic has. Wondering if it was Vadic, as they did say there were only 4 changelings on Earth at the time, and if Vadic was a prisoner of war, it's very likely they were captured from that small group. Would be an interesting call back if it was.
I can't say one way or another about the research on changelings. We do know there is precedent for it, because that's what Mora Pol was doing to Baby Odo. And, like Vadic taking the likeness of the doctor, Odo mimicked Dr Pol.
Edit: I think one of my favorite things about these videos is that Kris increases the brightness of the screenshots. This season has been too dark, physically. You can't see what's going on. Ever.
Janeway has been name-dropped so many times in this season that I will be disappointed if we don’t get an appearance from her in some way, even if she’s a changeling.
I'm very surprised there was no discussion about Vadic's line to Dr Crusher about how Jack was never meant for her. It heavily implies two major points - first that Jack's birth was NOT accidental and second she is merely working on behalf of someone else.
I'm willing to bet that the big bad all along was Lore. He is who Vadic is talking to and has been pulling the strings this whole time.
I don't know if Lore is the instigator - but we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Changelings were on Daystrom Station, and therefore had access to Date/Lore, along with everything else at the station. It wouldn't be unreasonable to believe the Changeling agents would mess with the AI running the show, and the logical avenue would be through the Lore half of Data's Jekyl/Hyde personality. It would be hedging their bets to have done some "rewiring" of Lore's programming, expressly to help their cause.
@@twisterjester Not even rewiring. This is Lore we're talking about. Remember what he did with the Borg? They would only need to play to his conceit and narcissism and get him to go along with what ever the plan is. He may even add to it, but yea I'm not seeing Lore as the instigator.
Well let's think about. Are there any other people in star trek lore that we know who were born "belonging" to another. I can think of one. He was the emissary to the prophets. He had some not quite corporeal abilities if I recall. Why couldn't Jack the son of the man who killed the emissarys wife be emissary to the pagh wraith? Its just a theory based on the galaxy destroying ball of fire last season, that jacks voices keep saying find us, that red setting during his visio... I mean hallucinations, oh and the possessed goo head vadic speaks to. Sadly I'm likely wrong though 🤣
@@thrasher930 I like that idea! It would make sense as well. Would also give them the pretext to have Sisko show up towards the end. I would like this even more, but feel that would be adding too much to the already full cast of characters. Lore helping the enhanced changelings escape and plan makes sense to me and doesn't involve adding more to the mix. I do like your idea better though
I absolutely love that they are bringing Data back around for a shot at what was his ultimate goal; to become human.
Dude, I love your reviews of all Star Trek. Your passion just shines through. Your reviews are the only ones worth watching. Keep up the outstanding work
It's very rare that an actor does such an *EXCELLENT* job in playing a villain so well that I wish with every fiber of my being to see the character suffer their just dessert in such excoriatingly painful ways. Amanda Plummer had me having those feelings for just about the entire episode. *VERY* well done on her part!
But she already did suffer excruciatingly as she was experimented on with no anesthesia. Section 31 was no better morally than the Nazis of WWII.
Loved this episode! The scene between Geordie and Data/Lore had me in tears!
I love it when a show is unpredictable. If I can see what's coming, my enjoyment wanes. This episode was not what I was expecting at all. 😀🖖
How could you not mention The Smile??! That was the best part of the episode to me. Also, was Tim's dialog the part that Beltran turned down? Tim blew that dialog away with amazing acting!! Great job on the recap. It's always fun to relive the episode with you.
I knew your platinum up was gonna be the Geordie monologue! He definitely deserves an Emmy for that performance.
Levar Burton being such an amazing emotive actor, and Brent Spiners' range made their back-and-forth so magical
I can just picture it now that they end with Picard, Janeway (and I would not be surprised if Sisko appears) and it is the 3 of them facing the rest down in the climax.
Certainly they are overly hinting Janeway this season.
All we need is a cameo from O'Brien now. He surely has to make an appearance.
Yeah they are 100% leading to Janeway. Either as an ally, or she's the Changeling in charge of it all.
Really getting Armus vibes from The Face now. It's an amorphous form with a gravelly voice, fueled by immeasurable hated. It has a vendetta against Picard and the crew that left him abandoned and sealed away. They haven't yet had a call back to Tasha, and it would be weird to do a TNG reunion without a reference to Yar at all. Lastly, they're setting up Data with the goal of integrating his dark side. What would be a better way to do that than to ultimately avenge his lover's death?
Always loved Data's love for his friend Geordi, and his Captain.
Also - loved the new score composer this week. Totally complemented Barton’s phenomenal efforts to date
Can we all agree that with all this mention of Janeway that it would be so incredible to make her the main of one of these episodes? Leading a mission of some rescue with Harry Kim. Not just a 2 - 5 minute thing. But a considerable side plot!
Like Seven and Janeway connect, they read her in on what’s going on… then you have Janeway leading a group of familiar faces. It being the key to solving some problem that helps to stop all this stuff from unraveling. In a way only Janeway could.
I'm hoping we'll see her when we get to Frontier Day. They've alluded to her being involved with the planning of that a few times. I would be surprised if she doesn't know about the changeling threat, though. She was a science officer and always paid attention to details. We'll have to see what the next episodes bring.
You're slipping my friend. Tim Russ was a member of Captain Sulu's bridge crew in The Undiscovered Country back in 1991. 32 years ago, 2 years prior to his 1993 appearance on Next Generation. Just putting that out there.
and he was combing the desert in Space Balls, but he "ain't found sh.t" 😁
Did anyone catch at the end when Vadik is addressing the crew she says “I am Vadik.” But the manner in which she says it almost implies she’s almost questioning or trying to convince herself of that identity?
Other possibility: Because Vadik can spread her "evolved" abilities by merging with others and her hate for Starfleet, what if she overwrites there personalities with copies of her own? Creating clones of herself. Saying I am Vadik could be the equivalent of "I'm the original, I'm the boss".
In JROTC and Police Explorers, I learned two concepts that seem to contradict but do in fact complement each other. The rules of engagement are geared around the neutralization of the enemy while giving him some dignity in defeat; conversely any person confined and detained in your custody is your charge and any injury that befalls him is on you. So Doctor Mengele at Daystrom Station has "blood" on her hands and that runs all the way up the flagpole. We do not torture. It's a moral law.
Great episode! Geordi pleading for his daughters life was crushing.
Thinking back to Vadics story, I have two theories:
I think that Vadic don’t just kill the Doctor, I think she absorbed the doctor and immeshed herself into/over her dna/solid form. Like the monster in The Blob but Vadic can “spit her out” and reform the doctor temporarily. (Her human form has weird veins, and cutting off her hand)
…I reminded about Jack mentioning the Japanese cup that was broken and rejoined with gold. The veins on Vadics face are like the gold holding the broken cup together.
My second theory is that we know Changlings have a warped viewpoint: what if the doctor didn’t know what she was experimenting on? Her whistling could be because she had no idea she was experimenting on a fully sentient creature. Like the episode when Bashir wanted a piece of Odo to try and make transplantable organs. These small pieces could’ve even started out as non-sentient but slowly grew fully conscious over time (like a starfish or worm that can regrow when cut… or one of Data’s neurons that could “regrow” Data!)
Thanks again guys.
Yea I’m loving this season too. Just one thing drives me nuts about the Picard series though - They now have great technology for shooting film in the dark, of which they seem to love perpetually making use, but I’m getting REALLY fed up straining my eyes to see what’s going on in the picture. That is a mega-down for me.
Jack Crusher is a prototype, a hybrid of Borg (telepathic) and the first 'fully-human' changeling
I've had similar thoughts. There seem to be a lot of things in this season that turn around a theme of duality, and the subtext briefly became text in this episode when Geordi made the comment that Alton Soong put Lore and Data together so that they would integrate into something truly human (paraphrasing liberally).
But also:
Vadic and the hand/blobby guy (I am starting to agree that is a manifestation of Vadic's own personality rather than a separate big-bad character).
Shaw is portrayed as both a hardass and a badass.
Worf being a warrior pacifist.
Jack being some kind of hybrid makes a lot of sense thematically. In addition to the various easter egg clues dropped as well.
@@texasyojimbo agreed on all counts
Fun Fact: Positrons are the Antimatter equivalent/opposite of Electrons, and get produced in your body every day from the Radioactive Decay of the Potassium that is an integral part of it's construction.
Brent needs an award for this show!
My favourite memory of Tim Russ is admitting during a convention appearance that it used to bug him for what he was most remembered. It had nothing to do with being Tuvok or most of his other projects. It all centred around on line in the Mel Brook classic Spaceballs, in which he played a soldier, literally combing the desert with a giant afro comb (my apologies if it is known by another name) who, when asked if he'd found anything in his search, yell's back to his superior, "I ain't found sh*t!" This apparently followed him for quite some time, despite his costume's helmet hiding most of his features, and he would hear people yelling it to him more often than he thought possible. :D
He said this in The Shuttlepod Show recently too
@@TheRealWalkingDude Indeed, I very much enjoy this recent discovery.
I had no idea that was him!
Great episode!!!
Where did the damaged Vulcan ship come from that was part of the ruse to lure Vadic? Where did the audio log come from? Why wasn’t this explained?
I know I'm in the minority, but I'm glad 'Nemesis' is still canon 🙈🙉🙊
Why wouldn't it be? It was a good film.
The only Star Trek movie I have a hard time watching is Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. I like or love the rest.
Yep. I agree.
@@dgeorg02 agreed
I like nemesis, I really do. First contact is my favorite, but nemesis is my second favorite followed by insurrection and generation.
Amanda Plumber, has been EPIC this season!! I would NOT change a thing about her character, I LOVE the way she played the part! And you can tell she had fun the WHOLE TIME! This season to me, has just been amazing, I have been on the edge of my seat every, single, episode! And there are only 2 left at this point....I am going to be sad when this season ends. And Brent Spiner, WOW! Oh this season is just of so many beautiful things!
The issue of war atrocities reminds me of the TOS episode where two worlds had been at war for 500 years, and were fighting with computer simulations to eliminate pain and suffering. It teaches us that if you sanitize war to make it more humane, you're also taking away the pain of perpetuating war. War is terrible. War is to be avoided. War should be fought when all other option has been exhausted with the singular purpose of bringing about its end.
I hope they didn't bring back Tim Russ just to play a Changeling, it'll be great if we see the real Tuvok joined with Picards group to save the Federation. Also the guest appearance of Tim Russ also renew my hope that Kate Mulgrew will appear as Katherine Janeway this season of Picard. But most importantly, I want a guest appearance of any DS9 characters this season, I wanted it.