The truth about protein on a plant based diet | Prof. Tim Spector and Dr. Rupy Aujla
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 жов 2023
- It's widely assumed that plant based diet equals lack of protein. But is this really true?
Jonathan is joined by his ZOE co-founder Tim Spector and Dr. Rupy Aujla to explore the topic.
Dr. Rupy Aujla is a medical doctor who, since 2015, has been teaching people to cook their way to health as the founder of the doctor’s kitchen and has recently turned his efforts to doing so on a tight budget.
Prof. Tim Spector is a co-founder at ZOE and one of the world's top 100 most cited scientists.
Watch the full episode here: • How to eat well on a b...
If you want to uncover the right foods for your body, head to joinZOE.com/podcast and get 10% off your personalized nutrition program. - Наука та технологія
Watch the full episode here: ua-cam.com/video/kye5tF0I5gI/v-deo.html
Been on a vegan diet for 4 yrs now, vegetarian for 30yrs. It’s hard to be a healthy vegan if you can’t or won’t cook! Vegan UPF is as bad for you as any other UPF. I’ve had a poor vegan diet in the past because I’ve been too lazy to cook . Since Jan 1st 2024 I’m totally off the Ultra Processed crap & cook everything from scratch. Learnt new recipes & delicious meals from Utube of course. I have never felt so healthy! I feel great & shed a few pounds in the process . It’s all about eating a variety of healthy fresh food & keeping off the very expensive convenience foods. Make your own from scratch it is cheaper in the long run especially if you batch cook & freeze it😊
As a plant-based ultra endurance athlete, I can say that another population where there is a risk is for distance runners who are not meeting their full energy requirements (RED-S). This is unfortunately widespread in the endurance sport population and the body will use protein for energy that is otherwise needed for lean tissue repair and growth. Getting enough calories from a varied whole-foods diet invariably addresses the problem, but it can be difficult to consistently meet the energy requirements of a heavy training load unless it is an explicit focus. Nutritional knowhow is just as important as workout structure or volume/intensity planning in training but the food component is often poorly understood.
I agree but what a whole plant based diet seems to do is enable endurance athletes to repair faster and their bodies seem to be more efficient. A friend dropped his time to run 100 km by 90 minutes (with no extra training) when he changed to whole plant based. It was his example that convinced me to go fully whole plant based too.
@@jimatsydney yes, faster recovery and lower systemic inflammation seem to be advantages for WFPB endurance athletes, myself included. All of my running friends are 10+ years younger than I am and still I somehow do as well or better with recovery and avoiding injury. There isn’t good evidence for it in the scientific literature yet, but I believe the benefits are there and it will eventually be rigorously documented.
A gorilla can deadlift 1800 pounds and it only eats plants.
How do you get the ZOE recipes. I love listening and learning about the elements of health and food!
Jonathan, your recent guest Dr Peter Attia recommends 1g per day per pound of ideal body weight. He thinks the protein recommendation is far too low!
How can you explain this disparity with the advice here?
Personally I’m sticking with Dr Attica for health, wellness and longevity and Zoe for micro biome information 🫶🏽
Because Attia believes everyone should be doing resistance training and they are the kind of numbers you need to recover and stay strong and avoid sarcopenia
They are talking about weak, frail individuals like most the Zoe lot 🤭
Battle of the grifters
Can you please for the love of God arrange a debate with one of these guys and Don Layman so we can know what's the root of such a huge gap in protein recommendations?
I found Christopher Gardner the most convincing on this subject. He is vegan and has had debates with protein advocates.
The difference is between minimum and ideal. Minimum will not protect you from desease and sarcopenea. Ideal you eat more protein when the bad times come
@@andrewroberts8959 I think he is vegetarian, but yes.
@@ChefJollyRoger you cannot really store protein...
@@FreeFromAllThings 100% correct but you do build more muscle or at least don't loose as much if you eat more protein. When the bad times come you will have more stores
Eating vegetables uses one field. Eating meat requires two fields, one for the animal and one to grow its feed. The natural world is being eaten up by agriculture for animal feed.
You are addressing an issue that people desperately want to ignore, esp those who profit from meat. They are also good at ignoring the misery and pain inflicted on the animals for human consumption.
Could we please please have some advice for the over 80's, particularly on a vegan/plant based diet.
@@Beatrice-nx5ldHow can 1 gram of protein be of a different value depending where it comes from ?
I'm exasperated that even vegans seem to have widely bought into this idea that we are at risk of protein deficiency! I think it puts us on the back foot when discussing the suitability of a plant based diet.
Depends on your protein needs. I think it's easily possible average people are a bit low on protein (you can only know for sure once you measure out all your macros for a week at least), and they will definitely be low on protein if they are trying to build/maintain the muscle required to resist the effects of aging and health decay in later life. People have been brainwashed into believing when they get old, the decay is normal and its normal to need expensive daily drugs from big pharma to keep them going. The truth is, you need more activity, and resistance training has repeatedly been shown to DRAMATICALLY reduce health related issues from aging.
@@ericaugust1501Have you actually looked at any data? Did you even listen to the speaker? The average human does not exercise enough to be in a protein deficit. It is nearly impossible. And no, you do not need to build and maintain so much muscle to healthily age that you need THAT much protein every single day. That’s why the very idea is unsustainable.
@@hollydaugherty2620 you are wrong. there is MUCH more recent data and MUCH more dense data from athletic research science. sports is a big deal in the states and there are MANY labs monitoring their athletes. And yes, they do often have control groups of 'regular' people vs their athletes. point is this data from this guy is obsolete 1970s stuff. Do you even know the single study that all mainstream protein minimums are drawn from? its an archaic study from the 1970s, on a small sample, super controlled sure, but super confounded relative to todays standards.
i'm not saying an average person needs the protein intake of a athlete, but i'm am saying they are probably somewhat under their healthy protein needs, and their body composition thus gradually shifts to less and less lean muscle to more fat, simple because they are not sustaining healthy lean muscle. and like i said, maintaining your healthy lean muscle is CRITICAL to healthy longevity where you are NOT reliant on pharma drugs and frequent hospital visit needs.
It’s because the online vegan community during the 2010s was plagued by raw vegans, who discouraged consumption of cooked legumes and other sources of plant based protein such as tofu or tempeh. They also avoided most high fat foods (seeds and nuts, but especially oils because of their processed nature).
A lot of the doctors, perhaps as an overcorrection, stress the importance of protein, knowing how prevalent the raw diet fads are.
@@Randomlycreatedbyme additionally, one really has to calculate the macros of one's general diet. often there will be surprises, and even if not, you still have to pay attention to the protein sources. There is this one protein that tends to be lower in plant foods, and you need an x threshold of it in proportion to your other amino acids, so it could happen on a vegan diet, even though you hitting your protein macros.... it's not able to be utilized to the amount you are hitting. anyway, my point is given all these factors, and the ones i already mentioned... if i were the average person who never measured their macros.... i'd bet money i was under the healthy protein required to sustain, and/or build muscle from even light (health goal based) resistance training.
We older people may not be in "the vast majority" - I would say instead that we are "a vast minority" - and lots of us are trying to maintain good nutrition and health. So how much protein do we need, and how are we to get it?
I am having to switch to a more veg/plant based diet due to a diagnosis of hemochromatosis- red meat, shellfish etc a nono in the early days till ferritin levels drop so good to know
I love all food but not all food loves me, especially plants. I would appreciate discussion on differentiating for the individual.
I’m in New Zealand and here ZOE gut biome testing and intervention isn’t available like it is in the UK and US.
This discussion irked me a little as it was general, but perhaps that’s reflective of my health journey where I’m at a stage in life where I’m old enough to not follow someone else’s rules unless it is the best fit approach for the whole of me. 5 years on a Mediterranean low carb way of living to reversed T2D has morphed heavily towards organic red meat and fish. I aim for my 30 different plants, nuts and spices a week usually in fermented form, but legumes and grains, shellfish esp feature very rarely due to the gut upset and anaphylaxis in some cases.
Still keeps me thinking! What does Long Covid do to the gut & oral biome - do you have a lens on this?
I think of it this way, you have a “main refrigerator” where you obtain primary fueling; and a secondary one in the basement where secondary fueling is obtained when the primary refrigerator gets empty and/or close to empty. Like during a fast.
Ill say it again, interview the world expert on protein. Dr. Donald Layman, he'll challenge your prejudices and do it with data, not from a philosophical ideological utopian stance. Or interview his protoge Dr. Lyon.
I can point out flaws in your positions, but it gets tiring and the recent persistent uploading of snippets promoting vegan protein shows Zoe is not interested in dialogue, nor truth, but in promoting biased ideology.
I would love to see an interview with Dr Donald Layman and Dr Gabrielle Lyon on protein intake.
I think you might find an opposing view from these experts in this field.
I’m 70. What is your recommendation for protein daily intake on a gram per kg basis. I’m concerned about losing muscle mass as I age. Thanks.
I’m no expert so you can take my advice as you will but what I would consider is making sure to make a concerted effort to be as physically active as possible by doing push ups, running, walking twice a day, weight bearing. Whatever you are comfortable with & time permitting. The other thing is that protein derived from chickpeas, lentils, eggs from a vegetarian point of view give good amounts of protein so let’s say you were 70 kilos in weight you should be eating daily at least 150 grams of lentils or chickpeas or any other type of protein plus a wide variety of vegetables plus carbs that suit you, I find potatoes particularly enjoyable. As I said at the start, you may already know all this but I am just pointing out what I have discovered from my own look into this sort of stuff! Health is your true wealth, take care.
@@sizzlebird1 Thanks. That was most helpful.
Watching this having just finished tucking into lamb shank, red wine gravy, roasties, parsnips, black kale, organic brocoli... and had a protein, coconut & fruit shake mid morning and salad for lunch to keep to a intermittent fasting schedule today. I wat chickpeas and oily fish twice a week and frankly one lot of beans a week is quite enough. So I'm good thanks! I eat loads of nuts seeds fruit, salad, veg, plus herbs and spinach ( which i grow myself amongst other things) and cycle to work and lift free weights. Food is my favourite pastime and a bit of everything is what i will continue to enjoy. 😊
Question: there is another popular video that talks about this subject. And the point they make is that different proteins break down easier than others. They make the case that animal protein is rated very highly because of this. And plant based protein, some of it, is ranked lower. Is the digestibility of the protein a factor? At the end of the day, we just need the amino acids to form new protein chains. But is the ease of digestion something to consider?
Does the way we cook food affect digestibility?
Very interesting. My question is: I used the ZOE app which showed my protein levels were very low (about 50g-60g on most days). I am a very active (3 gym sessions a week) 65 year old vegan. All advice suggests (including ZOE) that we need about 1g per kg of body weight - increasing as we get older. I would need to consume about two more cans of chick peas a day to meet my needs - not really practical. Are these guidance levels too high as this podcast suggests?
What if you're following a low carb diet (I find carbs make me want to eat more carbs...and I lose track of my actual appetite, so I just tend to avoid them!) I'll occasionally eat fish but mostly green veg or above ground veg). I love mushrooms and eat them a lot! And I'm dairy free... do I still not need to add protein? (I don't like beans!)
Dr Gabriel Lyon and other doctors working with women advises quite a considerable protein intake lately. I get confused from all the different advises .. its rather getting stressful who tells the correct tale… Any one with advise. (I’m 60 year old women)
listen to Dr. Lyon, not this guy. We humans require much more protein than this doctor suggests and Lyon has the data to back it up. Post-menopausal women need protein the most so the advice in this video is highly misleading.
Hi ! I have lean PCOS (body fat 4% and BMI 15.4) and no periods from last one year.
Can I consume dairy products especially greek yogurt, cottage cheese or whey protein powder?
Can you please help?
I doubt any woman is 4% body fat. Impossible. And you’re very underweight. Eat anything..
You dont have PCOS.
You have hypothalamic amenorrhea. You cant have PCOS being that underweight. Also sounds like you have an eating disorder.
You need to gain weight by increasing your calories (2500) dont restrict carbs proteins or fats and your hormonal issues will resolve.
Look into the HA society on UA-cam.
Guys, I really feel like this question is never addressed fully. I, like many others, have weightlifting as part of my exercise routine and want to optimise my "gains".
There are many high-quality studies that cite 1.6g of protein per kg of body weight is optimal. For me, that is 152g of protein - which takes a conscious effort. I'd really like this question to be answered fully by Tim et al, by responding to the science. If that 1.6 number is wrong, then why? Why are the studies wrong?
Ps, I have watched multiple Zoe videos on the subject. (And I also notice that the "don't worry about protein" rhetoric is coming from very slender men 😅)
Or how Zoe translates the advice for the need for resistance training to "doing a walk"
my question for you is.. what are the gains for? Simply building muscle for the sake of muscle?
I do not think this video is really about muscle gain or loss of weight or gain for that matter. It’s simply giving information about how to eat in a healthy way that nutritionally covers what our bodies need & how protein derived from “non-meat” has to be managed carefully by eating a variety of different foods so as to absorb the correct amounts of amino acids. Certain foods such as mushrooms, eggs & dairy contain the complete amino acids. Hence their names “complete proteins” and enough quantities of legumes plus vegetables will cover the needs suitably for a healthy adult.
In case Dr Tim does not respond... Use Happy Forks calculator. I did that and came up with this list for plant protein:
8 oz tempeh or extra firm tofu
2 c chickpeas (cooked)
2 c lentils (cooked)
1.5 c oats
4 slices wheat bread
3 brazil nuts
1/4 c pumpkin seeds
1/4 c sunflower seeds
1/4 c sesame tahini
1/2 c chia seeds
It results in about 170 g of well balanced protein.
For chia I soak 1 c in green tea overnight, and blend that with cacao, ginger, cinnamon, a little soy milk, and erythritol (sweetener) for a drink that lasts 2 days. Limit the brazilnuts to 2 or 3 daily because they are otherwise too high in selenium. I include them here for their high methionine content. You can use chickpeas in soups, hummus, and other dishes. Oat groats can be combined with beans for protein balance. I prefer that over rice due to high cadmium in rice. Adzuki beans and black beans, among others, are good options too. If you don't consume a lot of beans, ramp them up over a couple of weeks. They are great for cancer prevention and for a healthy microbiome (Dr Will Bulsiewicz).
Regarding the amino acid balance in plant protein, Happy Forks shows you the essential amino balance. Plant proteins tend to come up lower in lysine, leucine, and methionine than the other amino acids, but you can easily find which plant proteins provide those and boost them for a good balance. The list above has a very good balance.
Also, Lifting Vegan Logic put out a video today called Vegan Bulking Explained. I have not watched it, but he probably talks about the protein needs for body builders.
Nutritional science and Sports science seem to be 2 seperate disciplines with not enough crossover.
Could you clarify about the quality or completeness of protein when animal or plant based and whether it makes a difference
It's not even close. The bioavailability and completeness of eggs, fish, dairy, and meat blows away any plant-based source
All these seeds and nuts sound great... if you can digest them.
Where, how do I get sufficient B12 if not eating animal protein?
Nooch (nutritional yeast) or some plant based milks have it added
Can you talk about other issues in a plant based diet such as avoiding simple carbs and sugars that cause diabetes? My Indian friends most have diabetes and they are mostly plant based.
Please put your research links in the description also.
simple carbs spiking blood sugar
We eat a mainly plant based diet. I avoid carbs because they play havoc with my blood sugar. Instead of pasta we often have spiralized raw beetroot, carrot and courgette. If we have rice I mix another grain in like quinoa or pearl barley, vegetables and a handful of beans, pulses and nuts. We just try to add high fibre, high nutrient plants to carbs (If we have sourdough bread we have it with a high fibre, high fat topping. It's been a bit of a journey of discovery but interesting and fun.
Go careful with all those oxalates@@debbieshrubb1222
How exactly does a plant based diet correlates to diabetes in any way?
The impact of vegetables on insulin level is negligible, same for beans which are mostly fibers which also decrease GI.
As far as insulin levels are concerned there is no appreciable difference between plant based or animal based diet, all the difference is going to be how much refined flour products you're going to eat, how much added simple sugar, how much high GI fruit.
None of those are the base of either diet
There is no simple carb that vegan diets get in greater quantities compared to omnivore diets
Less rice, less twmpura deep fried dishes, skip sweet deserts. Plant based is not sufficient criterium for healthy food, just necessary.
The gym culture is much to blame. However genuine sports science seems to have plenty of evidence to support much higher protein requirements for athletes. Perhaps 2g protein per lean kilo of body mass, although this still coiincides with 15-20% of total calories for such a population.
It always the same food for those with higher incomes . To eat the way you suggest is great but not a realistic possibility in the average Canadian home
Can you please advise on B12 which is only found in animal products- any risks by moving to plant only diet
Vegans take b12 supplement. The animals the people eat also need to be given b12 supplement.
Can you please do an honest exploration of a zero carb diet, aka the carnivore diet. Some of the personal anecdotes I’ve seen are quite credible and quite astonishing wrt their salubrious health effects especially wrt reversal of autoimmune disorders
i don't think the nutrient dense carnivore aspect is the sole pillar on such turnarounds of autoimmune disorders. from the talks and docus i've seen, its also the ketosis state that you are usually in on the carnivore diet that has a big impact. but i tend to see carnivore or keto more as tools than a diet. both those diet are too extreme and once more long term data builds up from decades long practitioners we'll see if they are useful longterm.
If we want to advocate the typical diet of a country as something to look up to and inspire us we also need to look at the average age people live up to in that country. In this respect if I want to live a long life i need to find inspiration in what people in Japan, Spain and Italy eat rather than India.
NOT ONE of the chaps speaking about protein on this video looks like they build muscle or looks like they have an “athletic” physique?
It’s one thing to eat protein for your gut health it’s another to eat protein to build muscle! It’s far easier for the body to access the amino acids from meat based protein than vegetables plus there’s more lucin in meat based protein key to building muscle.
Building muscle is fundamental to lifespan & healthspan.
Why ZOE is so hell bent on turning everyone into a vegetarian baffles me 🤷♂️
because it's actually the opposite of what they claim. There is a lot of money in the 'plant based' movement and you don't get as much push back as you do promoting animal protein and animal fats.
Bodybuilding is unnatural. Why should they do that to their body? There are plenty of long lived healthy people in the blue zones who don't do bodybuilding - because it's not needed! In any case, there are plenty of vegan bodybuilders and athletes so you are just spreading myths.
If the usual recommended protein intakes are way over the top, may we please know how much protein is actually needed? I've seen several vegetarian "balance sheets" which show how we can get 55g or more protein, but it seems that you would have to be eating almost all day to achieve this. I just don't eat that much food. As far as I can see, only lentils come anywhere near meat for protein content. I'd love to be told I'm wrong, but I would need facts and figures.
Requirements are related to your age and your activity levels. The recommended daily allowance is 0.8g/kg body weight for the general population and that means that 97 to 98% of healthy individuals' needs will be met. For power sports, performance benefits have been shown for increasing this to up to 1.6g/kg of lean body weight. There is evidence that there is no further benefit above this and that protein must be taken in 20-40g "meals" 3 to 4 hours apart to achieve the benefit of additional daily intake (i.e. having three meals with 60g of protein does not offer benefit compared to three meals of 40g protein). For endurance athletes training at high volumes, up to 2.0g/kg lean body weight has shown additional benefits, but this is generally achieved by increasing general calorie intake to meet the fueling requirements without focusing specifically on protein content. A varied, whole foods diet that contains legumes, whole grains, nuts and seeds, vegetables, and fruit will typically provide 15-20% of calories from protein. If you are getting enough calories and most of your calories are from whole foods, you are almost certainly going to meet your protein needs. Individuals over 65 years of age are assumed to be (on average) less efficient at digestion and at protein synthesis based on observations about sarcopenia (loss of muscle mass in aging) and some mechanistic studies that show a greater amount of protein is needed to trigger the muscle-building process. No broad, well-designed studies have shown a benefit to increased protein for older individuals, but the current consensus "standard of care" favors 1.0-1.6g/kg of protein per body weight for individuals over 65. There IS evidence that physical activity is effective for preserving both muscle mass and strength, especially resistance exercise, and it is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than additional protein for maintaining function and avoiding frailty.
I can easily get that much protein in 3 average sized meals (for reference I'm 5'5" and 125 lbs). Here's an example, as calculated by Cronometer: Breakfast = 1/2 cup rolled oats with 1 cup soy milk, 1 TBL chia seeds, 1/2 cup blueberries, and 2 TBL maple syrup; Lunch = salad of mixed greens w/tomato, pepper, cucumber, 1/2 cup black beans, 2 TBL nutritional yeast, 2 TBL pumpkin seeds, 2 TBL avocado dressing, squeeze of lime juice; Dinner = 1/2 cup brown rice, 5 oz extra firm tofu, I/2 cup (cooked) bok choy, 1/4 cup (cooked) shitake mushrooms, plus 1 TBL oil for cooking and 2 TBL of stirfry sauce. Those aren't even large meals and it adds up to 60g of protein and only 1400 calories. You can get a surprising amount of protein without bulk from nuts, seeds, and nutritional yeast.
@@sophiekarnak3936but are 1400 calories enough for you in a day?😅
Getting enough protein from plants is easy. And by protein, I mean sufficient essential amino acids. Easy if you have diversity in plants which inlcude grains and legumes. My problem with this is every single "protein rich" plant food is still predominantly carbohydrate. The protein to carb proportions are way way off. And diversity of plants may require lots of imported food because not all climates can grow wholesome vegan diets.
@sophiekarnak3936 those 60g of protein are not even close to the level of actual available amino acids you get in meat.
Basically for meat, fish, dairy and eggs, the amino acid profile is such that you have pretty much the exact proportions needed to form human tissue with almost no waste. But plants based proteins (without supplements) will end up with >50% being unusable for protein synthesis. The saving grace here is that humans, on average, need less than 60g/day. Most people need a lot less. But 60g of plant protein is not equivalent to 60g if animal protein. Actually counting protein in grams is misleading. We need to be looking at essential amino acid content.
Excess amino acids end up converting to fat, glucose, or urine.
Its a lady that had weight loss surgery procedure after 4 kids. She gets around 130 grams of protein a day. She is about 5 ft 1 in height. She is based in USA in her 30s.
Great video, but why are my fellow Brits (unkess I'm wrong, in which case, my apologies) talking about the price of food in dollars and not pounds sterling?
This video isn’t complete. It cuts off mid sentence?
I eat tinned stuff but now I keep hearing about Aluminum are cans made of that?
no. Drink cans are thin, made from Aluminium, can crush in one hand. but stronger Food cans are made of epoxy-coated steel
I'm surprised to hear Tim mention quorn, I would have thought that that was ultra processed.
i heard ' CORN '
He meant corn
@@mikedonnarumma5337 Thanks, that makes more sense.
@@anitawalters6765 your reply implies that he said ,quorn, but he did not , he said CORN
@@mikedonnarumma5337 oops sorry I meant that he actually said corn
When he said 'misnomer', I think he meant 'misconception', right?
I've been vegan 20+ years and never really paid much attention to my protein intake. I did start taking an amino acid supplement recently and found it helpful, though.
I can see Fiber Fueled book by dr Bulsiewicz on the shelf. I have that book too. ❤
The best way to judge your diet is how you feel about an hour after eating, how long you can expend energy before you get hungry, again, how much toilet paper you need after pooping, and how many bowel movements you have in a given period of time.
This is just the start. Next, you have to look for any inflammation markers. YMMV, so rock on.
I am on Day 1 of Zoe and am HUNGRY and tired 😂
Going to have my “dyed lunch cookie” in 8 minutes (I am counting the seconds!) haha
I al very excited to see the results in a few weeks
Eat more fresh fruits and veggies and nuts and seeds and berries and melons and lentils and heal yourself.
I train Triathlons and weight 60kg so thats like 100g of protein needed at least and i do struggle with just plants any advice?
Eat meat, eggs, fish. Sorted. 🙂
Add nutritional yeast (4g protein per tablespoon) to salads and dinners (for example mix nooch, cornstarch, garlic powder, & smoked paprika together and use as a coating for air-fried or pan-fried tofu). Add hemp seeds (3g protein per TBL), pumpkin seeds (2.2g per TBL), flax seeds (~2g per TBL), and/or chia seeds (1.7g per TBL) to salads, smoothies, oatmeal, granola, etc. My son is a college athlete (6'7" 220 lbs) and he makes giant protein smoothies with soy milk, peanutbutter, hemp/chia/flax seeds, banana, and one of the cleaner vegan protein powders (Vega brand).
Have a look at derek Simnett channel as well as hencherbivore, they have lots of great healthy plant based recipes for athletes
Eat plenty beans, lentils, seeds, soya products, quinoa, and some wheatgerm and nuts. There's a fair amount in grains as well. It's best to avoid protein powders.
Watch "Game Changers". There are some people who do triathlons on there. Very informative documentary.
The issue is the Leucine content. Leucine is an essential amino acid.
Is 6 grams per serving really "enormous"?
I guess from experience I have tried bodybuilding without taking protein a few times but it was like the Hebrews trying to build pyramids without straw.
Lol!
If we are currently eating too much protein, then switching to plants should not have any need to replace the protein we were previously eating. Which is it? Do you we need to match the current amount or is it too much?
The other group you forgot to mention is athletes. All the literature points to strength athletes requiring a minimum 0.7-0.8 grams per pound of bodyweight to optimise recovery and muscle hypertrophy.
And no, the studies weren't sponsored by supplements companies.
Also, its worth pointing out their is no evidence to show that high protein diets have any negative effect for people with a healthy renal system.
Yeah I'd be interested but u do get a lot of vegan athletes
@TamaEnergy Yes. Vegan athletes supplement with Vegan protein powders with every meal. Pea/Rice/Soy Isolate Protein powders.
@@JD83000 so what? Being an athlete isn't normal anyways. Are you claiming also that only vegan athlete supplement? The main issue is what is healthy, sustainable and ethical and doesn't destroy our life-support system.
@spiral-m depends on your priorities, I guess. No, all athletes supplement.
I love this! thank you for the continued TRUTH! 🙏❤
no. its not the truth. Depends on your protein needs. I think it's easily possible average people are a bit low on protein (you can only know for sure once you measure out all your macros for a week at least), and they will definitely be low on protein if they are trying to build/maintain the muscle required to resist the effects of aging and health decay in later life. People have been brainwashed into believing when they get old, the decay is normal and its normal to need expensive daily drugs from big pharma to keep them going. The truth is, you need more activity, and resistance training (to build and maintain muscle) has repeatedly been shown to DRAMATICALLY reduce health related issues from aging and SIGNIFICANTLY improve healthy longevity.
Every fitness nutrition video I watch seems to recommend at least one gram of protein per lb of body weight. Is that complete nonsense, or does that level of protein consumption make sense for someone who is weight training?
Yes, if anything it’s 1g per Kilogram of bodyweight
It's worth understanding how this dietary recommendations came about. Look for Christopher Gardner videos on protein.
This figure is too general and Americanised. A more accurate figure these days may be 2g per lean kilo, which may be increased a little if in calorie deficit. Of course this is for strength training. For aerobics or endurance maybe best to work off 15-20% of total calories.
I agree with some of the things said in this video and some of it i don't i have been a natural bodybuilder for 13 years now and i do have protein powder and protein bars and it has never done me any harm the key is to have a variety of healthy foods so i also have meat with veg and sweet potato you wouldn't see Eddie Hall or Jay Cutler competing on a vegan or vegetarian diet would you so i think it's down to the person them self's.
The ,you are what you eat, series is an odd experiment. One is pure plant, and the other is mixed or omnivorous. We need a plant vs Meat based experiment🙂👍
So they are downplaying protein now? Obviously because they are not keen on meat. A great many people in our society are pre diabetic ( like myself) so that means carbs need to be moderated.
No doubt Zoe is anti fat too…..
Honestly - deciding what to eat for optimum health ( but also for enjoyment) is becoming more and more difficult.
I think it should be stated that some veg diets are a LOT worse than others. I have friends who are vegetarian and have either ended up with type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetic now AND are also overweight. The amino acid profiles also need to be diverse because of the crappy profile of most plants. Ideally we need a high fibre plant based with good meats diet somewhere during the week that doesn’t spike blood glucose or hold the fat in the bloodstream too long.
Sounds like your friends make unhealthy food choices, this has nothing to do with plant based. I could eat magic mushrooms all day and it would be plant based. Is it healthy though?
@@thirdeye4654 you’re correct. From being on the Zoe project I can see straight away where they made their mistakes… parsnips, beetroot etc plus potatoes, cous cous, white rice etc. are all glucose spikes but are staples of their diets no wonder it went badly.
@@skylineuk1485 the thing is, they need to make up for the kcal loss when going from an omnivore diet to a vegan one, or else they'll shrivel up to nothing ... Which is why they fill up the difference with carbs.
A better approach would be to make up for the difference with oils, but that'll take you so for, if you're lacking high quality protein, especially the elderly fighting sacrcopenia.
I know a few vegans that are “living” from Oreos, potatoes etc. I’m vegan with plant based diet, try to incorporate 5-7 colors into every meal and cover all needs..
"Some veg diets are a LOT worse than others".
Sounds like they are all bad!
I need to state - the healthiest diets in the world are veg. Stick to wholefoods and plenty of pulses/beans/lentils/some nuts Big variety. The SAD diet which involved meat - is worse than the standard veg diet. Both are not ideal. Most people do not eat in healthy way. Med diet is best. Look to the blue zones, a tiny amount of meat if any. And then it is mostly fish. Lots of grains, pulses, potatoes, etc.
Beans,seeds, nuts!
Everyone over 50 loses 1% muscle mass every year so for the gym bunnies/fitness buffs who want to increase muscle mass into their 60s /70s to avoid frailty/falls/broken hips you can't say eat nuts and seeds instead of ptrotein powder drinks after a work out they are highly calorific and lets face it it is hard to keep weight off after middle age. I've never seen a fat vegan. Neither do I want to become one.
Well, PHOOEY ! - here I am, 80 and my brain fully functional .. and now I don't know if I'm going to get sufficient protein from going vegetarian again. :(
Depends on your protein needs. I think it's easily possible average people are a bit low on protein and they will definitely be low if they are trying to build/maintain the muscle required to resist the effects of aging and health decay in later life. People have been brainwashed into believing when they get old, the decay is normal and its normal to need expensive daily drugs from big pharma to keep them going. The truth is, you need more activity, and resistance training (to build and maintain muscle) has repeatedly been shown to DRAMATICALLY reduce health related issues from aging and SIGNIFICANTLY improve healthy longevity.
You talk about quantity of protein, but not about quality of the protein...
Everything in moderation, moderation is key. And cut the snacks and processed rubbish, or keep them to absolute minimum.
Moooooore fibre!
Can't believe in 2024 we're still talking about Protein.🙄
100g of quinoa has 16g of protein. That is not that much protein even if it’s complete protein. Butter beans only 8. To reach 100gr of protein I’d need to eat enormous amount so hit the target.
It’s not impossible but you are introducing a lot of carbs and fats in the diet. Much easier to hit that mark if you supplement with whey while enjoying balanced diet …
As Majestic stated, plant proteins are not complete proteins, unlike animal proteins. You would need to combine plant proteins to make a complete amino acid profile, but that comes with a lot of calories.
What about more INVERTABRATES in our diet!!! We are omnivores not carnivores or herbivores. I once heard the quote that their are 28,000 species of edible insect in the UK and that's just insects!!! We have the absurd attitude that goes like this: 😋😋yummy yummy its honey for my tummy, 🤢🤢whats that this it has bits of bees wings in it, that's disgusting throw it away.
Think that is a load of rubbish meat and eggs for me ..... loads of veggies are low protein
If we don’t store excess protein but convert it to carbohydrates, is it true that the body uses autophagy to recycle old proteins in the body to supply the daily protein needs during times of low protein intake? If we are getting too much protein constantly the body has less need to clean up the old stuff, leading to chronic problems. This could explain why lower protein diets are associated with longevity.
@@RagdyAndy They are! One answer "Blue Zones"
The Game Changers film the best documentary on nutrition based science will blow your socks off. Mens external vein is put to the test. Don't be limp. Pin back your ears, watch this film and save yourself before it's too late.
Its about in total nutrients. Nothing better than ruminant red meats and organ meats. You won't need much as you won't be hungry because that is your body craving nutrients.
Obsessed with macro nutrients
Surprised at Tim saying “misnomer” when he means misconception.😮
Has the concept of misery and pain experienced by the animals used by humans as food ever been addressed at Zoe? Keeping one's empathy narrowly focused toward humans and not other sentient creatures is myopic and bizarre. Empathy resides in the anterior insular cortex and is a vital part of human intelligence. Without the broad practice of empathy toward all sentient creatures, one's brain devolves into a sociopathic state.
With close observation of wild animals and of the types of animals that humans consume, it becomes obvious that their ability to practice empathy, even between species, is superior to that of the humans who are blithely willing to subject animals to misery and pain for their taste pleasure. All the regurgitated excuses have been fully addressed many times over. Stop consuming animals. You have no legitimate excuse.
@@ib3691 Zoe is not based on ethics. Well said. Non-vegans promote animal misery and abuse by their actions. Call them out on that anywhere, anytime. That annoys them? Ok, good.
@@ib3691 they do mention sustainability but they could mention it more, and it makes sense to talk about ethics as well for the following reasons: extinction isn't good for our health. A strong sense of ethics towards other sentient creatures is far more likely to motivate people to stick to a healthy plant-based diet lack of empathy and concern only of the self. Thus it is extremely linked with our future Life on this planet.... or not
some of us rank plants and fungi as sentient beings - i think we should honour and respect ALL beings - chemical farming is just another nasty human trait! @@spiral-m Lets be kind to all - and accept that we all eat each other too - in fact we aren't even 'a' person - we are a conglomeration of beings from microscopic bacteria thru fungi to mammal!!
peanut or quinoa is same as white flour/pasta/bread. idk why this quinoa thing is repeated everywhere. I agree white flour is a source of protein though if you accept these 15%protein level foods are high protein then all food except some fruits are even more high in protein.
I believe it's a balance. You can have small amounts of animal protein,plant based protein. Eat the rainbow. And lots of fiber. Lastly small amounts of resistant carbs. In life all is about balance. Good luck getting satiety from plants! Healthy fats and of course don't eat all the time!
Yes I eat veg! As a Hypoglycaemic if i do not have enuff protein i do not have lasting energy. I would have to eat every 90 minutes until i fall into bed exhausted unable to raise my blood sugar again. The eight amino acids - like rice and beans offer are less efficient in this body. We are not all the same. ❤
Don't forget soy beans. It is a complete protein.
My problem as a vegan was the amount of highly processed carbs and sweet fruits and and that the Omega3 isn't the same from vegetable sources compared to fish. I noticed a Big difference supplementing fish Omega3 for my brain and hormones. Nowadays I'm eating a lowcarb diet with quality protein. Still love my veggies. This made my hormones improve! I thought I was premenopausal as a vegan. Still knew a lot of what I needed to supplement with. But didn't understand I messed up my bloodsugar and was constantly hungry.
But my experience is also that Omega3, carbs and the lack of fermented foods in many people's diet. Indians are VERY good at their fermentation! I think that is why their population also doing better on a vegan diet.
I believe the biggest part of the plate should be fermented and plant based, while meat should be a sider and an aperitif.
Long chain omega 3s (DHA and EPA) originate in algae, not fish:
Title: Omega-3 Fatty Acids: An Essential Contribution
Journal: Office of Dietary Supplements (ODS), National Institutes of Health (NIH)
FISH OIL vs ALGAE OIL OMEGA 3:
Title: Omega-3 Fatty Acid Concentrates: Comparison of Two Different Omega-3 Sources
Journal: Lipids in Health and Disease
Title: A Single Dose of Fish Oil Increases Omega-3 Levels and Does Not Affect Platelets in Humans
Journal: The Journal of Nutrition
No difference in bioavailability:
Title: The bioavailability of DHA from algal oil, but not from fish oil, is significantly improved in healthy adults: a randomized trial
Journal: The Journal of Nutrition
Title: Bioavailability of marine n-3 fatty acid formulations
Journal: Prostaglandins, Leukotrienes and Essential Fatty Acids
No difference in viability and cell proliferation of Caco-2 cells:
Title: Bioconversion of ALA to EPA, but not DHA, is Inversely Related to DHA Status in Men
Journal: The Journal of Lipid Research
You cannot get a full range of the essential nutrition from plants, not possible at all.
Really?
I hear millet has protein
I am confused. keto is the way. Plant base is the way. Don't know who to believe. I hear so many benefits on carnivore and keto that seem unreal..
Discussing amino acids consumed in isolation isn’t helpful. A plant based diet can contain essential amino acids but must be supplemented to prevent deficiencies. A ruminant based diet doesn’t need any supplements or any fibre therefore is the diet we are naturally designed for. We are free to make informed choices but finding unbiased information is incredibly difficult for those you haven’t done extensive personal research. Videos like this border on misinformation.
✌️
fading out like that was as really shitty move... 💩
Many of my vegetarian friends are diabetic and hypertensive. It’s not the issue of being vegan or eating animal products.. it’s all about high carb diet that makes you sick. Please stop pushing your preferences being a vegan.
I’m not convinced most of us think vegetarians and vegans are deficient in protein. It is so easy to get protein from plants. Omega 3 and 6 and vitamin B12 are a problem. That’s why I eat fish.
Easy to get protein from plants? In what regards?
@@dr.proteomix1257 Err, as in it’s easy to get protein from plants. Plants contain protein. You have to mix them up to get a balance of amino acids of course.
"Omega 3 and 6 and vitamin B12 are a problem" - what do you mean by that exactly? I've been vegan for over 12 years and I don't have deficiencies there. Like many other vegans who pay attention. Short chain omega threes are easily available in walnuts, hemp seeds, linseed, chia seeds for example. Omega six is readily available and many seeds and oils of plant-based origin! Long chain omega 3s (DHA and EPA) originate in algae, not fish:
Title: Omega-3 Fatty Acids: An Essential Contribution
Journal: Office of Dietary Supplements (ODS), National Institutes of Health (NIH)
FISH OIL vs ALGAE OIL OMEGA 3:
Title: Omega-3 Fatty Acid Concentrates: Comparison of Two Different Omega-3 Sources
Journal: Lipids in Health and Disease
Title: A Single Dose of Fish Oil Increases Omega-3 Levels and Does Not Affect Platelets in Humans
Journal: The Journal of Nutrition
No difference in bioavailability:
Title: The bioavailability of DHA from algal oil, but not from fish oil, is significantly improved in healthy adults: a randomized trial
Journal: The Journal of Nutrition
Title: Bioavailability of marine n-3 fatty acid formulations
Journal: Prostaglandins, Leukotrienes and Essential Fatty Acids
No difference in viability and cell proliferation of Caco-2 cells:
Title: Bioconversion of ALA to EPA, but not DHA, is Inversely Related to DHA Status in Men
Journal: The Journal of Lipid Research
Will never buy this product nor recommend it. Sick of the ads.
People need to watch Game Changers and then re think their attitude to meat and athletes and body builders. You have all been conditioned to think about meat …. end of. You all need to educate yourselves and expand your horizons re plant cookery and the HUGE benefits to your health!
Like all these mainstream documentaries, they are riddled with bias and lies. There's a scene about an athlete who goes meatless and makes ridiculous claims to performance that are never replicated. He also doesn't isn't a winner in his sports; making things up to push their view.
Bro game changers is fake from beggining to end. It has been debunked so many times and the athletes presented there got qorse after going vegan
What I find really frustrating is this widespread denial that not having meat in a diet is unhealthy. There are plenty of meat eaters that eat worse diets than vegetarians and visa versa. As a meat eater turned vegetarian, I have seen an improvement in my energy, my overall health & gut health. My diet is a mixture of salad stuff like cucumber, tomatoes, radish, vegetables like sweet potato, carrots, spinach, parsnips, onion & garlic plus spices/seeds (like sesame, sunflower) fruits including apples, blueberries, bananas + the proteins yoghurt, eggs, cheese, milk, beans, lentils, chickpeas, peanut butter, tahini & the usual carbs, brown bread, potato, wholewheat pasta & rice + chocolate of course. I do not lack any “amino acids”, and i certainly don’t lack energy in my day to day life.
Nobody needs to watch anything. They will watch if they want to. There is no one diet that fits everybody. Some people thrive eating meat, others don't.
@@niellalien but they DO need to educate themselves. Extinction isn't good for health. : “If the world adopted a plant-based diet we would reduce global agricultural land use from 4 to 1 billion hectares”
ourworldindata org land-use-diets
New "most comprehensive study to date" from Oxford comparing various diets across several environmental factors. The results show dramatically how vegan diets are far less destructive. Doesn't include ocean biodiversity nature. Source - nature /s43016-023-00795-w "Phasing out animal agriculture represents “our best and most immediate chance to reverse the trajectory of climate change,” according to a new model developed by scientists from Stanford and the University of California, Berkeley."
Source news stanford edu new-model-explore-climate-change/ From the leaked IPCC report: The overall report ranks the shift to a plant-based diet as having the greatest disruptive potential
(Page TS-98).
source: landwirtschaft jetzt en ipcc-report/.
From the biggest dietetics association comprising 1000s of professionals in nutrition:
"It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity. Low intake of saturated fat and high intakes of vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, soy products, nuts, and seeds (all rich in fiber and phyto-chemicals) are characteristics of vegetarian and vegan diets that produce lower total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels and better serum glucose control. These factors contribute to reduction of chronic disease. Vegans need reliable sources of vitamin B-12, such as fortified foods or supplements.”
pubmed 27886704/
Let’s agree to disagree on that subject 🤔
This is just another set of recommendations that conflict with the hundreds of others. Until their is an independent study without the pushing of one thing or the other then it really isn’t worth listening too.
This video was just a thinly veiled anti-meat rant
Follow the money: most people consume animal products. Most people don't want to stop consuming animal products - which industry is larger, the meat dairy and egg industry or the broccoli mafia? It's like David and Goliath in terms of potential corruption of scientific research.
Can’t believe a word he says - all about the ££££
Is it now policy at ZOE to advocate becoming Vegetarian and to give up meat?
At least their bias is no longer delivered underhandedly
Always has been.
Yep!👍@@ChefJollyRoger
at least they’re not a multi million food business trying to sell sugar on the pretence that it makes us sweeter to be around
agree, still could be better @@sizzlebird1
Vegetarian diets only provide adequate protein after a 'lot' of trial and error I found and even then I struggled with fatigue and muscle loss.
I’m 48. I work out really hard 6 days a weak. I don’t want to die a feeble wretch. I’m naturally very skinny. Animal protein has given me healthy muscle and size, and delivers everything I need in a convenient way. Who in earth is going to eat sacks of hulled hemp seeds every day.?These people come from money. Must be nice.
Agreed. Although they're not bad thrown on top of your cereal with other seeds and nuts to boost the protein content, even if cereal isn't approved of on this channel. 😊
A typical adult human need only 46 gr protein per day.Just one serving (2 cups) spaghetti without nothing on it provide 20-22 gr protein.
@@MajesticArtimus let's assume, dear Majestic, that I am very probably wrong about the spaghetti, but do you agree that a typical human adult needs only 46 gr protein per day? Just genuinely curious ?
Pure propaganda if your in labouring job your protein, vitamins, minerals requirements are gonna be totally different to one of someone working in an office. Also, there are a lot of places that just don’t get certain types of food or the food produced is lacking in the actual vitamins and minerals. Studies of shine countries that are starved with their standard diets and you can see this with mild development like eyesight bone densities and the body can store certain types of protein. I don’t even know what I’m arguing. This is just pure gaslighting isn’t it?
Spector finally says something that is actually true.
It’s all very confusing, one thing I know if you eat only plants you will eventually die. On the contrary if you eat only red meat and fat you will do just fine. Which one is healthier?
We will all die ;) where did you get your information from, you are making some extremely controversial claims which don't reflect the bulk of scientific opinion: The biggest dietetics organisations in the world would disagree. Who are we to believe: random youtuber or 1000s of qualified nutritionists? From the biggest dietetics association comprising 1000s of professionals in nutrition:
"It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity. Low intake of saturated fat and high intakes of vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, soy products, nuts, and seeds (all rich in fiber and phyto-chemicals) are characteristics of vegetarian and vegan diets that produce lower total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels and better serum glucose control. These factors contribute to reduction of chronic disease. Vegans need reliable sources of vitamin B-12, such as fortified foods or supplements.”
pubmed 27886704/
@@spiral-m My comment is not at all controversial, if you only eat plants you will eventually die. That’s a fact. I’m sure Prof Tim Spector would concur.
If you ate more meat it might help you to WAKE THE F***, UP
India has the highest incidence of diabetes, and vegetarianism. Hmm, I wonder if there could be a causative correlation.
The diabetes there will probably be a recent trend like it is in much of the rest of the world and die to increased junk food intake
I was vegetarian for over 20 years and really struggled with anaemia throughout, despite eating eggs and lots of pulses and veg. So much so that when I tried to give blood, I was invariably turned away.
The galean foundation did a vid on this, the dr suggested it was the switch from ghee (sorry for bad spelling) to veg oils and the introduction of ultra processed food. Veggie/vegan/carnivore - if i'm eating lab food, nothing is going to be good for me (yet tastes so nice)!
@@cjscjs6356 Most of plant-based foods have non-heme iron which is poorly absorbed also due to antinutrients in some foods (like legumes). Adding some lean/white meat and fish to our diet can be helpful. I had the same problem as a vegetarian and trying to compensate this by eating more food increases consumption of carbs and fiber - and this is leading to digestive and other issues. If our body does not absorb some nutrients from our current diet, we should try to adapt our diet. Often it works better than we think. 🙂
Actually it’s a very limited analysis. Given with 1.3 billion population. Diabetes is increasing due to increased processed food and less physical activity. And linking it to only vegetarian food is wrong given only 30% are vegetarian. So technically the correlation of you being vegetarian and diabetic will be very low.