Why Don't MARVEL Superheroes Age?? || Comic Misconceptions || NerdSync
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
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Time in the Marvel Universe is a bit weird. Originally, it flowed in real time with Captain America, Iron Man, and Fantastic Four aging they way they would in real life. But when one of Marvel's most popular characters, Spider-Man, started growing up too fast, they had to slow time down in order to keep him and the rest of their pantheon of superheroes young. But while the heroes seemingly never age, the world around them continues moving forward into the modern era. How is this possible? How exactly does "Marvel Time" work?
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Marvel's Sliding Time Scale
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The Franklin Richards Theory
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8:45 Holy crap. This bit feels completely different after seeing Endgame. How did you know Scott?!
OMG
Same
He called out the exact three omg!!!
Look, I've been saying this for a few years now but people aren't too receptive when I say it, and it's not surprising since what I've been saying is _THE MCU NEEDS TO END._ Now, now, please just hear me out for just second before you start throwing poopoo at me. Look, they knew the actors would eventually grow old, contracts would expire, etc, etc, _so they should have planned for it._ See, they should have had an ending for this universe from the moment it began, and it should have been with Endgame. I think the solution to all of this is that there should Marvel Cinematice _UniverseS, plural._ And each one should only last about a decade, with full plans laid out for each character. This isn't a crazy idea idea becuase there are multiple universes within the comics, so it would make sense that there are multiple Marvel Cinematic Universes. Now, the first one was pretty messy because it's the first time anything like it has been tried, I mean no one had ever heard of a giant interconnected set of movies before, so it makes sense that it wasn't perfect, just like Earth-616 couldn't have known it would go on for decades.
But now they have a complex formula that works, and now they just need to apply it better with _a second try._
I wanted Endgame to be the one that softly reboot the MCU, which they totally could have done with the Infinity Gauntlet. Since Disney acquired the rights to the X-Men and Fantastic Four, etc. right then with The Infinity Gauntlet would have been the perfect opportunity to reboot everything with fresh faces and a plan for another 10 years.
However plausible from a Hollywood standpoint this may be, it seems like they are planning to do something like it with the next Doctor Strange movie. If not, I fear the MCU will slowly become a jumbled mess that people will lose interest in. Hell, it's already happened to the DCEU..they've even given up on series of movies and are going to be focusing on more solo, stand-alone movies like Joker.
How the hack Scott?
The whole Franklin Richards thing reminds me of an episode "Legends" from the Justice League cartoon. In it, Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern, Flash, and Hawkgirl get sent to the DCAU equivalent of Earth 2 and meet a bunch of heroes from the 40s and 50s. Except, they later find that the world that they found was an illusion, and the real world had been destroyed by nuclear war some 60 years prior. They entire cast of heroes from that earth, as well as the city that they protected, were illusions/reality manipulations made by a boy who had been mutated by the fallout, and manipulated the world so that it was identical to how it was as when he was young.
I actually remember that episode, and honestly it was sad as all hell.
Perhaps they were inspired from this story when they were making that episode
I REMEMBER THAT EPISODE SO SAD!😭😭😭
Jesus fuck
Meanwhile at DC:
*Getting old? CRISIS! Getting boring? CRISIS! Too confusing? CRISIS! Too many crises? CRISIS!*
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Solving every problem with a crisis. BRILLIANT!
😂😂 So true.
A crisis is to DC what timeline changes are to WB Barry.
In theory, I prefer the Crisis approach. I just wish they'd plan it far in advance instead of waiting until they've made a total mess of things. If you're a comic book writer, and you know that the whole universe is going to hit the reset button in about 10-15 years, you're far more likely to progress the story and take risks with the characters rather than leaving everything stagnant.
Imagine, for instance, if the Batman writers had really taken advantage of Zero Hour in 1994. Bruce Wayne's back could've stayed broken after Knightfall in 1993. No magic healing necessary, since they're about to reset the timeline anyway. Then Zero Hour could've changed one simple detail: Batman never took in Jason Todd. No Jason Todd, no Death in the Family. No Death in the Family, no over-obsessive, self-destructive Bruce Wayne. And voila: Bruce doesn't push himself too hard during Knightfall, so he's able to take on Bane without sustaining permanent injuries. They could've even kept Tim Drake around, since his origin was tied to Dick Grayson more than it was to Jason.
Scott: when will iron man, captain America, and black widow stop showing up in movies?
Avengers Endgame: hold my beer
"How many more movies with Iron Man or Captain America or Black Widow" indeed
I mean there's still Iron-Man. Right guys? Guys?
No
Yeah, he specifically said captain America, black widow, and iron man without even knowing that they would either retire or die in future movies. Or, one movie.
He predicted the three original Avengers the would be killed or retired in Endgame. I’m impressed.
I’ve come to inform your that Iron Man is dead. Cap is retired. And Black Widow is dead. This is my first time watching this video.
*To explain the clock,* basically I wanted to show you guys how long it takes on average for me to record a video in real time. There's a giant three-minute skip right off the bat because the beginnings of episodes usually take me the longest to get through. The clock also *disappears* around 9:29 because I forgot this video was sponsored, and I had to go back and film that part a day later. I'm a idiot.
38th comment, THERE!!!
yes you are Scott, yes you are.😃
I loved that detail and was about to point it out! Really good video, but what about Wolverine or Captain America who got old (until he became young again)? I mean, i think we're seeing marvel characters starting to get ready to age with so many younger counterparts taking their place now! And it's not like DC heroes are that different!
DC is a bit different because they have had some reboots. Unlike Marvel who are trying to make every story count, DC goes, "Nah, only the new stuff counts. The old stuff happened on a different timeline/universe/reality/etc."
as a response of your question of the day: Universe wide reboot/wierd semi reboot kinda like DC Rebirth after Avengers 3 part 2.
If Scott gets too old, will we be able to recast him? Will he ever get HIS day off? #RebootNerdSync
#TerminatorSync
Brad Pitt as Scott.
Replace him with a 15 year old genius black girl at MIT.
Others will take on. We can rebuild. We can do better. We will. We have to.
brad pitt isn't handsome enough
I estimate it has only been 9 years in The Marvel Universe since 1962.
lol
If I recall correctly Civil War actually directly referenced the "timeline". It stated that between Fantastic Four #1 (1961) and Civil War (2006/7) 12 years had passed in Marvel Time. 46 years of continuity in our time...
It's been 13-14 years
Woah! How do you know that?
my cousin actually works for Marvel and he says 10 years
I prefer the idea of ending and rebooting the universe from time to time. It allows them to redo stories that worked, leave out ones that didn't, come up with new ideas and characters, and keep the world they live in modern and relevant.
The issue is that writers like the baggage from other stories characters had. Writers like that Jason Todd died in death in the family, uou can't keep redoing that story every time you rebooted because then it just becomes redundant and stale to see the same stories over and over again
so......like how DC has done it? like everytime there's a sales slump, CRISIS!, everytime the timeline is getting messy, CRISIS!, everytime there's too many characters going around, CRISIS, granted DC only technically rebooted their main universe twice with the other CRISES events are just to fix some issues they had
I kind of compare it to The Simpsons, which has, what the show's creators term it, a floating timeline. For example, Maggie, Bart, and Lisa Simpson are still kids, even though the show is over twenty-years-old. Also, they tend to show flashback episodes where you see the family in different eras of pop culture, like Homer being in a grunge band when the kids were still pretty young. I would assume Marvel Comics has a form of floating timeline, albeit a bit more loose than The Simpsons, hence why the characters can remain young while the world changes around them.
yes
Pretty Much.
interesting comparison
Just like Family Guy and King of the Hill as well. Pretty much all adult-based cartoons.
***** i think it can work with almost any long running animated/comic series cause the way it basically is written is to write stories til it starts declining in viewers unless the creator has a set in stone story then the product will probably get a floating timeline
8:45 I like how he picks out exactly the right ones, out of the six orginal Avengers!
that clock in the background was distraction the hell out of me. lol
Me too! But I like how it shows story time progression versus real time progression. Video is 11 minutes versus the 21 minutes passed on the clock.
I love the concept that Franklin Richards is (presumably unintentionally/subconsciously) creating the Marvel sliding timescale. It's one of those sideways connections that you can't unthink once you've thought it, like this one: Cyclops projects beams of crimson concussive force that are held back only by his own body or by a particular sort of ruby quartz crystal. The beams create concussive force without causing recoil or heat, impossible in our dimension. The X-Men and Dr. Strange interact with a being associated with crimson energy, ruby crystals, and unlimited, unstoppable kinetic force: Cyttorak of the Crimson Cosmos. Yet no one in the Marvel Universe ever puts two and two together and realizes where Cyclops' eye beams are coming from.
the clock in the background though
that's all I could watch
+Jaymz Parker same
LOL SO DISTRACTING!
***** No it just Shows that after 3 minutes of the video you suddenly have 6-7 minutes at Scotts point in time.
Robbie_221B it makes!me scream internally.
I find that this is one advantage the movies have over the comics. Imagine how less convoluted the Peter Parker story would be if he was forced to retire 25 years ago due to his age. I was really interested in conics growing up but had a really hard getting into it because I had NO IDEA where to start. Humans have a desire to experience the complete story. And when the story is so long and convoluted and continuing to grow, it can deter people from ever starting because who wants to start something they know they’ll realistically never get to finish?
Imagine if you could get the complete story of Spider-Man in omnibuses by year? And if you knew at the end of it all, you’d get a complete satisfying conclusion to the story as you’ve watched this character grow and age.
The filmmakers may find their aging actors to be a drawback, but it’s a limitation that will, I think, pay off in the long run. Future generations will be able to experience the entire iron man arc, for instance, in manageable chunks knowing the story would come to a satisfying conclusion when all is said and done.
Im gonna be sad the day that:
1. Stan lee passes on
2. Robert downey jr. cannot be iron man anymore
1. He is today. RIP
2. He will soon
We're almost there!
Bruh
...
Ooh no no no
I believe that since 1967 within every 5 years in our time would be just a year in The Marvel Universe from Fantastic Four #1 to 2015's Secret Wars would have really been 15 years in their time. So instead of The Fantastic Four debuting in 1961, they would instead have their beginnings in 2001, and instead racing The Commies to The Moon they would instead race The Chinese to Mars (ridiculous I know). This wouldn't be the only case, Spider-Man would have been offered to appear in The David Lettermen Show, Iron Man on Afghanistan, 2013 could have been 2038 etc. Here's how I see it with highlighted events on each year!
1967-1972 = 2007 (The Pregnancy of Sue Richards and The Beginning of The West Coast Avengers)
1973-1978 = 2008 (The Death of Gwen Stacy and The Reformation of The X-Men)
1979-1984 = 2009 (The Reformation of Blink-182, The Dark Phoenix Saga, and The First Secret Wars Happened)
1985-1990 = 2010 (Spider-Man's time with The Black Suit and The Origins of Venom)
1991-1996 = 2011 (Blink-182 released their 6th studio album entitled 'Neighborhoods', Captain America became a Werewolf and The Arrival of Cable)
1997-2002 = 2012 (The Remergence of Sentry and The Release of Blink-182's Universally Acclaimed EP 'Dogs Eating Dogs')
2003-2008 = 2013 (The Avengers Disassembled, Scarlet Witch remove 90% of all Mutants on Earth's power, The Events of Civil War occur, The Subsequent Death of Captain America, and Secret Invasion and Siege both happened one after the other)
2009-2014 = 2014 (Norman Osborne was defeated, Scarlet Witch and Hope Summers restored The X-Gene, Black Bolt detonated Terogenesis unleashing Terogenmist around the world, and The Death of Uatu The Watcher of Earth)
2015 = 2015 (Tom DeLonge left Blink-182 and a multiversal event cause the destruction of the world until it was brought back with creating a new timeline while having most of the 616 continuity's history intact)
Nice theory
This deserves more likes.
@@xyu2198 it's been four years, but i made my contribution
There's this great comic, I don't remember which one, but it looks back at this time the Hulk was trying t o deliver someone to a Washington, D.C. hospital, and the Champions mistake his actions and try to fight him. Hercules starts off the story by being greatful for the accolades they just received from President Carter. Iceman remarks, "Carter? You mean Clinton! If it had been Carter, I'd have been in diapers!" A cute, throwaway dialogue that just upgraded this flashback from 1976 to 1996. Great job!
Maybe shifting timelines makes it so that not every single time that Spidey fought the Vulture is canon, anymore. But, the IMPORTANT ones are! And they are all that matter.
I like to think that every fictional universe have his own space/time rules, independent of us. In our reality time constantly flows in one direction, but in the Marvel universe, maybe, time remains static while everything else change, and when we see Punisher jumping between different wars, is only our perception of Punisher's reality, in his fictional head, he only fought in one war. That's the reason Deadpool is crazy, he can perceive his reality from the reader's perspective.
I'm waiting for Arno Stark (the villainous Iron Man from the year 2020) to make appearances in 4 years. Explain that one, Marvel!
Michael Adams time travel
Oh that’s how they’re gonna keep it going.TIME TRAVEL.Recasting.
Its 2020 in 2 weeks Arno should be making an appearance
kamui Cage Yep, Iron Man 2020’s a thing.
@Jordan Bonner All right, to Marvel's credit, they did address it... In the stupidest way possible... But they did address it.
As long as I have my spiderman. They can't get rid of spidey.
Miguel O'Hara should be alright for a while.
Same here
+Ed N room for one more?
As always :p
Spidey for life
8:45
Wow, he really nailed those characters.
The thought of Scarlett Johanssonn getting old gives me creepy flesh.
Yeha,i dont wanna even think about her bodacious boobs sagging down to her knees one day :/
bruh when u mentioned the cinamatic universe ending i felt so empty man damn
This somehow managed to miss one of the most important problems, and underplay the significance of another.
1. Some characters are indelibly linked to particular historical moments or events. While they can change Tony Stark's war, they can't really change Magneto's. That has significant issues - not aging, thanks to Mutant Alpha, but rather with his friend/enemy dynamic with Charles Xavier, which becomes increasingly weird as they move from contemporaries to people separated by *generations*. Charles is only like 30 in (Uncanny) X-Men #1, after all, otherwise he'd have fought in WW2, not Korea (as originally written in X-Men 12-13).
And while Captain America's time on ice can extend indefinitely, his out of time-ness stops being poignant and becomes increasingly alien. At what point does he disconnect so much from the country he went to war that he no longer represents modern American values? The character might not age, but the symbol and what it represents certainly does.
2. Decreasing time between events doesn't just make an alien invasion just another tuesday, it also tears the heart out of the emotional impact of stories. Over the years, there have been several, if not dozens, of 'Ben Grimm becomes human through a one-use plot device, changes himself back into the Thing despite the mental anguish' stories. And that works the first time, and might work if they happen a decade apart and he doesn't know if it'll be possible again... but as the timeline compresses, that becomes a weekly occurrence. If Grimm can spend a day as a regular person once a week with *regularity*, then being the Thing isn't so bad, and he can be confident the next one-use plot device isn't that far off. Yet so much of Marvel story-telling relies on this exact sort of psychological drama.
Well this started out nice, but became kinda depressing.
I felt so sad
MCU: Kills Iron Man and Black widow and throws Captain America into a different universe
Thor, The Hulk, and Hawkeye are next on the death list.
Will Lyon I hope for a two Hawkeyes movie before then
I like to think that without aging heroes we could do unlimited stories with them... but I believe this is what Alternate realities are for., to tell stories of their younger selves. If the heroes were allowed to age, their kids could have their own origin stories and become their own heroes.
-Zelena Hull
I can’t imagine other actors in the MCU. They’re cast so perfectly!
The spidey series isn't even in continuity with the 616 comics... that wouldn't even make sense cuz some of the characters like the Osborns have swapped races, whereas both are still white in the standard "Amazing Spider-Man" comics.
According to Marvel, spidey's set on Earth TRN576.
“How many stories with Iron Man and Captain America and Black Widow do we have left?”
I’m from the future
Maybe, a separete universe like the Ultimate one, could be used for aging and retiring characters with the introduction of new ones. An elseworlds kind of thing. As a separate series of titles.
I think another similar solution would be to create a whole new universe every time the heroes in the current canon get to retirement age. Marvels canon is that there are a potential for infinite universes, so why not just jump to a different one where the heroes started having powers at a different point in time? You could effectively reboot every character, introduce new ones, even pull an ultimate style spider man and have someone completely new and different as the mantles we love. I'm sure it would have its own host of problems and hoops, but it seems like a pretty clean solution to me. Idk, thoughts?
That's basically the Ultimate Universe idea.
+Brian Valadez
That's what DC seems to do. REBOOT! While it does wipe away a lot of continuity, it helps for new readers to climb aboard. It also allows for cleaner continuity as they can keep what was good in continuity and what was bad out of continuity without having to excessively retcon each of those events individually.
Didn't work
alphajames33 That seems to be the direction the MCU is heading towards. Scott was bang on the money.
I remember - vaguely, haven't been able to find this clip even with UA-cam searches - I think it was the Muppet show - the stage is wrecked, the main guy is standing in the wreckage - one of the others go "The Show must go on!" - main guy - I think Kermit "Why....?" coz its a day everythings gone wrong - "Well, if it don't we don't get paid..." - then "The Show must go on!" with renewed vigor!
DC comics had (in the past) a 10 year "Dimensional Shift". There was a brilliant superman/batman team up - this is a 50s, 60s comic showing it. They continued the stories as if they had been happening, but occasional the 'other dimension' where there was the Batman who started in the 30s, 40s, etc.
Of course - thanks to the "Comics Code" they were stuck in a narrow rut - appealing (literally) to kids 10-16 or something. That way little Billy liking Batman for a few years, then 99% of the time burning/throwing away the comics, no big continuity issue. Collectors who noticed the plot getting recycled like the soap opera it was - well they hid secretly - like Homosexuals - afraid of the light of day and were no real threat to the comics industry.
I think - long term - they should have worked out gradual replacements for the heroes. Robin going on to become 'the batman' or perhaps "I'm Robin..." but just as serious clobber/detective as his mentor. New rings given out, Louis and Clark having a kid. The Punisher finds a disgruntled Gulf war vet. A nerdy "Biopunk" kid gets bitten by a genetically modified spider and is saved from being "Man Spider 2.0" but then when stabilized the guy that saves him trains him to do what he was doing since the late 60s... How about a bunch of "X/Y", and upcoming "X/Z" mutants, the result of lots of bed hopping between mutants and mutants and other superhumans and normal people? Mystique having a dozen kids, most related to various political leaders and diplomats... They did do one on the "Purple Man" having a daughter and lots of other kids, but did nothing with that beyond short things.
Problem is, Comics companies are clearly headed by investor relations, not creators.
So attempts to "Get with the Times" are usually stupid and embarassing, even for the day.
The 90s "Extreeeeemmmeee, Dood...!" during the boom is the stereotype of this, but plenty of wreckage from the 80s with far more flops than hits.
To get it to work you'd need long term build up in plot and experienced writers.
And companies to take huge risks with existing properties.
“We think we see change but we only see the illusion of change” wow that’s deep. Sounds like the comics have more in common with real life than we’d like to admit.
They shouldn't recast any of the characters anymore. The actors are so deeply rooted into the character that it feels like the actors is the characters itself. Recasting can only make people feel the character they build for so long weird and different
Jethro PlaySAS I don't know. It worked for Bond.
In movies they eventually have to because the actors age out of roles. Especially younger ones like Spider Man. I really disliked the newer reboots and thought only Toby McGuire nailed it - especiall in Spider Man II.
Spider Man 2 was good but Toby was really mediocre in it.
In 30 years they probably would for the next generation
Imagine how people felt with Solo when they got a guy who looks and acts nothing like Harrison Ford to play Han Solo.
Wow, I always just took Marvel's sliding timescale as one of those comicbook things you just had to accept and not think about, it never even occurred to me there might actually be an in-universe explanation for it, but the whole Franklin Richards thing actually makes perfect sense. Great vid, Scott
At 8:50, it's almost like he knew who would be retired in Endgame
I would just like to see Peter happy then be able to walk away without any regrets.
I loved the clock in the background! It was a nice touch.
Recasting as contracts run out and actors get older also apply to musicals and plays, not just movies. The Phantom of the Opera, for example, has been running for 28 years and has gone through many many different actors and actresses. But the story is the same and OC is still remembered. So yes, Chris Evens and Scarlett Johansson will grow older and move on but they will never be forgotten. So in regards to your question, I think marvel should continuously recast rolls because unless the character they're playing has come to his/her natural end then he/she should continue. The actors are acting what the idea of the character is, not the character them self so, to me, they shouldn't be the one who ends the character. That's the writer's job.
If Hamilton ended because all of the OC left then millions of people will never get to see the show live. Again, to me, I would rather see the show in person with different actors then not see the show at all.
I hope this was relevant, thank you for reading this, your videos are amazing!
I like the idea of, at least in the MCU, many of the hero personas becoming somewhat more like mantles that get passed down in-universe as actors can no longer play those characters. Similar to what they're sort of doing with Sam Wilson taking up the mantle of Captain America in the comics, but rather fully commit to the idea. Perhaps some characters, like the Hulk, might be tough to fit into this model. Though it has the potential to tell some pretty great stories.
I can imagine some future conversation: "Oh man, I nearly jumped out of my seat with excitement when Chris Evans' grizzled old Steve Rogers stepped out of the shadows. Having the very first Captain America come back to mentor Rohan Chand's character as the fourth Captain and help him live up to the legacy of his predecessor was so awesome!"
Because Franklin Richards. Probably. Idk
Yup. Basically.
What about DC? Is it "because Doctor Manhattan"?
I think Franklin is a really interesting character. I can't wait for the Fantadtic Four to come back.
+KRYMauL batman is the most well known DC Comics character besides maybe Superman and Alfred is a very important part of the mythos so no way
*****
DC will never do that the JSA became mentors because they retired them due to most superheroes not being popular.
Much like the portrait of Dorian Grey, Marvel characters stay young whilst Stan Lee ages in their place.
Paul Long that's a pretty bittersweet way to look at it.
What bothers me more than the modern stuff (that doesn't actually bother me at all) is continuity inconsistencies. Dear Marvel, Peter Parker never met Gwen till college. So it's not 616. But I like the series, it's a nice change, having something so simple as opposed to Slott's ASM.
Yeah, the retcons throw me off a lot. But like you, I enjoy the simplicity of it.
Yeah. Not only simplicity of the story but of the art as well. Anyway, great video, I was, however, expecting you to mention the claim that 4 years in real life are 1 year in Marvel Universe. I read it on Marvel wiki and it kinda holds up, at least regarding Peter.
Šavle CZ I'll address is on the next Tales. I didn't mention it because the exact ratio is always in flux depending on whatever Marvel's current EiC is feeling today. haha
Yeah, that is very true, lol. It's if course meant as an overall ratio.
+Šavle CZ Hey, wasn't there an event that also explains this during the 90's-2000s? Maybe with the Siege Perilous? Have someone look into this Scott.
That the heroes can be placed in any time gives them power. I like it!
Glad you mentioned movie universe in the end. I'm really looking forward to the Old Man Stark movie where silver-haired RBJ plays an older gentleman who has to dawn his old costume one last time. His old bones are hurting and reactions are way slower than they used to be, but he's still smart as hell and is the world's greatest engineer.
Hm, I've just realized that what I'm asking for is basically The Iron Man Returns from Frank Miller. Huh...
Hey Scott!
In the worst X-man ever comic, one of the characters explains that is was her who kept the marvel universe young, and who would reboot and revise the characters. She also said that she would bring back characters and kill them off.
So maybe it was her who would change time and practically control the entire marvel universe?
Anyway great video!
ALL the original X-Men are DEAD.
Only that remains are the clones.
Seen in the LAST X-Men: Logan movie
Swiper Fox Yes, we know that. This isn’t the X-Men movie universe we’re talking about though.
I'm ancient, hell I belonged to the MMMS, so I was thrilled way back when my favorite characters aged along with me. When Marvel time started it confused the heck out of me, what had happened to my friends, why was I now getting older than them?
Ah well, at least the Hulk will never have to deal with arthritis.
That timer was a pretty clever anaolgy. Good on ya.
Honestly, I like a "real-time" focus. Watching the characters go through trials, grow, and eventually pass the baton to the next generation. They don't have to disappear, gotta hold up the legacy, but I they need to hand it off to new heroes.
Emphasis on "new".
a hero retiring is kind of antithetical to their moral code unless universal peace is achieved. if someone needs help they must help, until they die.
@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 that's an amazing debate, there are a lot of superman stories that focuz on him realising the world goes on without him
Thank you for putting that clock up in the background. Makes me feel soooo much better about how much time we spend recording our videos.
How do you feel about the strange time laps/squashing / resetting in DC? They seem to mostly sum it all up (recently that is) with massive dimensional shifts and splintered time lines
After subscribing to NerdSync, I've been going through almost your entire backlog of videos. You really do live up to the mantra, "Educating through the comic medium." This video in particular piqued my interest for some reason. I knew that Marvel used a sliding time scale but did not know the details of how it worked. The compression you describe is only going to get tighter and tighter as (real) time goes by. I had never thought of Franklin Richards being the in-universe reason for the time compression but it makes logical sense.
Your final point about MCU was excellent. It really made me think about how we distill these characters down to simple concepts. Imagine Robert Downey Jr. retires from the Iron Man role. Instead of recasting Tony, Marvel introduces a second Iron Man (son, male protege, etc.). Due to popular demand, this becomes Marvel Comics' permanent status quo. Some generations of readers would still think of Iron Man as "billionaire Tony Stark." Other generations would see Iron Man as "hero who knew Tony Stark." All of them would be right! Franklin Richards allowing time to flow normally would be almost unprecedented for North American comics. How is that for mind blown? Anyway, thanks for making me think. Keep up the awesome work!
What if I told you guys you can like Marvel And DC?
INSANITY!!!
Nah, they're both great!
I like both
HERESY!
HERESY!!!!!!!!
Yep! ^W^
Scott went from the sad speech about all good things coming to an end to shamefully promoting Lootcrate in less than 30 seconds. That's a new level, I think.
I was wondering if it was possible that the technology we see referenced in comics isn't the same as the technology we see in real life. For example in the comics the smartphones and what not that we see could have been created earlier due to certain people within the comics, having genius level intellects and such, making technological innovations come sooner
I've been thinking a lot about this... And when I thought about the One More Day event (Spider-Man), the consequence of that event was peter losing his adulthood and going back to college and all the people surrounding peter were affected and becoming younger... And with spidey is just another example of retcon of a good character, and in fact, spidey series works pretty well, given the fact that we will always find stuff that doesn't make sense in the timeline, the retcon works as a way of reimagining the adverntures we know and love
I don't know if I never noticed it but I loved the counter running in the back to show the jump cuts and everything as if to emphasize the idea of time being different for the viewer vs the one living in the medium. We end up watching a video that was only 11 minutes long but it was shot in about twice that.
How many stories with Iron Man, or Black Widow, or Captain America.
Bruh moment.
but wait, if Franklin Richards is in charge of the Marvel space-time, didn't Marvel itself cancel the Fantastic Four recently? what then will that tell for the remainder of our heroes?
as for the movies, pan out to other characters. I think that's what they're already attempting, with of course reboots being inevitable but let's hope for atleast a decade of silence before Thor reimirges?
either way, it's a more behind the scenes take on things, whilst still, creating said scenes and scenarios.
to quote Spock, "fascinating".
+KRYMauL Yeah, But have you seen young RDJ and Young Michael Douglas?
***** Yeah but if they can't they have that alternative......
They belong to the mouse now...The almighty and powerful Mouse!
I had no idea Franklin was the one controlling the aging factors !
I know of a grand total of one long running comic book series where the characters consistently age ... Prins Valiant.
He's in his mid teens in the first book and by the time the comics stopped selling enough for the series to continue, he was a gray haired granddad!
THE biggest issue I have with time being so slow in the comics is Magneto. He is stuck in time. You cannot separate him from Auschwitz as that is a major tentpole in his life and origin. People from World War II are dying off now. In all of that, it's one of the reasons I'm okay with Marvel slowly phasing out X-men. While it remains a special to many of us, the mighty mutants stories can only be told within a time frame.
Oh, and I also loved the clock in the back that progressed as you made the video. Nice touch!
I think that every twenty or so years the mantle of each hero should be passed onto someone who can keep up that hero's work. Like Batman Beyond, or Spider-Man 2099.
the issue is that most comics were made not expecting to run for 40 years.
They should've kept aging the characters along with the real time. If some writer would want to write a teenage Peter Parker story, then the story would be set in the 60's. It would also encourage to make new superheroes when the old ones would retire or die.
Stories should have a beginning, a middle and an end. One of my biggest barriers to entry in reading comics was that I never knew when to jump in and how to get caught up on what I'd missed. This is one of the reasons why I usually only buy self contained stories in graphic novels and why I really like the New 52 reboot.
Characters are best when they grow and mature, following the cycle of life and passing on what they've learned to the next generation. Characters who don't learn their lesson run the risk of becoming stale.
Loving the timer in the background on this episode.
Awesome video Scott! I myself have questioned this for awhile and it's great to have someone explain it to me.
Thanks! Hope it was helpful!
+NerdSync Oh, it was!
They never grow old because Franklin Richards like his favorite heroes to stay young.
Personally i wold love a more grounded approch on the topic, similar to the one we see in whatchmen. With supers aging and dying, and passing on name and costume to a new generation. That could allow to rejoin the timelines and it wold give us so much more lore
I always wanted the characters from Marvel/DC to age even if on a slower rate. I think it would be cool to see Peter Park growing old and handing over the Spider-Man mantle to Miles Morales. And so on with the other characters.
People complain how DC keeps rebooting there heroes but it's actually really smart because it gets rid of inconsistencies and they can start they're heroes age and adventures so they can be the same age forever
But I liked the JSA that had older heros with a longer history alongside newer, younger heros. I would have loved to see them grow up to the point where the kid heros were adults and mentoring heros the same age as they once were.
I never bought any dc comics because they kept rebooting all the damn time. So I just stuck with Marvel's cohesive story telling.
+LeoOz. im glad they like to reboot. Makes it so much easier for people thag havent been reading comics to get into comics.
How can you relate to someone that stays the same age when you don't? It cause no progression in the story, in the real world things change.
For me, characters age in reaction to significant events with continuity ramifications. Specifically, marriage, children and the oncoming "next generation".
I see The original Xmen as being in their 40s, for example. This is because The new Mutants would be in their 30s. This is because Generation X would be in their 20s (Jubilee, M, etc.). This is because they made a new team of teenage X-men who are taught by Generation X era characters.
I've always been led to believe that every 10 years or so, we see the character in a different Marvel Universe set in a different timeline just like how the 60's universe was a place in the Zombie stories.
The thing about this channel is that it brings out the philosophy of comics, while bring rooted in their campy foundation and not ending up as doochey deconstructive ditties. Thumbs up
I personally think that it is good for characters to die off and or retire. As long as it's not handled like ultimate Spider-Man, where they just do it to replace them with a different gender or race. Every year new superheroes come up but are aither overshadowed or are too simular to existing ones and the world looks like every 3d person is a mutant/superhero. It would be better if time passes and new characters come up and become what the people need them to be.
A few good examples that come to mind:
Superman should have died and become a REAL symbol not just in the comics but in real life. His character would be so much better and he would be forever remembered.
Spider-Man should have stayed married and have the story where he is injured and can't continue and eventually his daughter picks up the mantle.
Batman should have ended his carrier a while ago, aither the dark knight returns style or beyond style wich both fit his character, especially considering how late he began his career.
I love that i get to read more about these characters, but i think it is much better to have a cohesive story with a begining and an end, and if there are more stories to tell you can always use the alternate universe angle.
i love miles Morales.... i like the legacy aspect. if the heroes do retire i want them to have a connection with old heroes. and just because miles is Hispanic/black dose not me its a cheap tactic to praise the massive if miles was white he would be to similar to peter look whys. miles is black which is a major difference in color then white so he stands out more. plus he has a interesting story about him not being able to save peter. he also has gank who knows his identity which is cool.
Did he have to be "Spider-Man"? Did marvel have to bank on Spider-man's name to create a new original character? His story is indeed good but he was handled poorly. He should have assumed his own identety instead of conveniently having spider powers AND have more powers than the original. It would have been much better if marvel had the courage to create a new character that is connected to Spider-Man and his death they should have been more confident at him and not just bank on the Spider-Man name.
It's because new comics with new IP's don't sell as well as already established titles.
also, in my opinion, Ultimate Spider-man and Superior Spider-man are both way more interesting and unique than Peter Parker
I agree with you Marvel, DC, or just the comic industry itself need to realize if they want to keep the heroes modern they need to let them go. I'm all for legacy characters since you create a lot of room for potential stories since they don't want to let their hero legacy down. But of course you need to introduce the new guy before they take the mantle and built up why they are worthy of holding the mantle. which ANAD Marvel isn't doing the best example of doing this correctly is Wall West Flash since he was the flash's sidekick for years before he was Flash himself
Indeed and that is why i said "As long as it's not handled like ultimate Spider-Man, where they just do it to replace them with a different gender or race." Because they are banking on the name so that they can sell their new character. I do NOT like this practice. It doesn't allow characters to stand out unless they "steal" the spotlight. People read Spider-Man because they like HIM. Readers in a way are now "forced" to read this character wich IMO is a bad way of doing it. Same goes for Thor. They couldn't create a powerfull Asgardian female godlike creature, they had to "replace" Thor. With Captain America it is acceptible because it is a simbol within the universe, but for characters like Thor and Spider-Man it feels forced and "CHEAP".
Ohh this video means so much after endgame
make a dc version of this. how time in the dc universe is. also make a video that could explain why the symbol of hydra is a skull with tentacles instead of the monster itself from greek mythology.
Fuck DC
Honestly DC has rebooted a bunch of time. So the world constantly changes without our heroes changing
Master of eternity I-HAVE-THE-POWER! ok fair point.
Along with the reboots, DC has also sort of allowed their characters to age. I'm thinking of the different Flashes that aren't from different Earth from like Barry to Wally to Bart. I follow more Marvel though, so I may be misunderstanding how it all works in DC.
Likioni ok that's a posibillity.
I prefer a story with an end. It's why I read a lot of Vertigo/Dark Horse/Anything outside main Marvel and DC (For the most part). I really dig how Hellblazer followed a real life time progression; how John would be in a relate-able world always and, IIRC, would often comment on the changes from when he was younger.
The way Scott said the stuff at the end about the heroes finally getting a day off made it sound really dark...
In a way, Marvel's scattered and belatedly recovered movie rights are now a stroke of luck for them: having made a fortune by turning a bunch of mostly second- and third-string superheroes into A-list stars, they can now bring in some of Marvel's most famous and iconic characters as second-round kickers for the franchise. The MCU Spider-Man is practically a spider-baby--he can stick around for a long time! At some point they may even give us a decent screen version of the Fantastic Four, and they can be relatively young. And I have mixed feelings about them eventually doing an MCU reboot of the X-Men, but they'd definitely have name recognition.
8:50 oh and spoiler for end game past read more
I couldn't help but laugh concidering those exact three are now out of commission
Steve Rogers is retired
Iron Man's dead I am iron man
And so is widow sacrificial it was
Literally the only deaths that stuck in end game and maybe gamora will live too
Where it was said that the Spidey comics is the same continuity as the 616 universe?? For me it is clear that it is a different universe...
It probably isn't because 616 Spidey wasn't in high school in 2010(Game of Thrones show)
Besides all the other heroes that he met are much older than him...
+Random Ideas Yeah I'm pretty sure Peter now is about 25 now I think
I subscribed some time ago and wanted to thank you. Your videos are always much more than random countdowns and stuff like that. They actually make me think. Normally I thoroughly dislike all the theory stuff but yours are very well prepared. They make sense. Long story short: Thanks for giving me my geeky fix on a regular basis and keep up the awesome work!
don't forget that on top of all that, time gets completely reset sometimes. then of course retcons can add stories to time period that weren't fully used to their potential previously.
8:45 DID HE JUST PREDICT ENDGAME ON ACCIDENT?
why not have them train an apprentice and they take the name, that way the heroes can evolve to their times and mean more to that generation of readers
Captain America did it.
That was corny
The Flash often did this. 1 Flash would take on a Kid Flash, who'd grow up to be the next Flash, who'd take on his own Kid Flash, but then the first flash would return and then all kinds of weird family events would happen
some character already do that
Because then people get really angry over change, we have many legacy character such as x-23 as Wolverine, but it's met with many angry over her not being "her own character". So generational heroes as awesome as it would be, will be met with anger.
So what you are saying is......Franklin Richards needs to die.....
Why I like stories like kingdom come, it allows the heroes to age. Some are retired and put down the mantle, some have aged, and it introduces new characters like the "metahumans" as outcasts. Some chose to fight, some didn't. Is a whole 'nother world in that particular future. Which reminds me I should finish that book.
I agree with the characters having vacations. That's why I took the All-new All-Different line with excitement.
What about DC? The DC equivilant of Franklin is Mopi so...
What happens if (just as an example) Robert Downey Jr. dies? if iron man was played by someone else then people would be furious.
People didn't like it when Superman and Batman stopped being played by Christopher Reeves and Christian Bale respectively? Sometimes, you just can't please rabid fanboys.
If Downey Jr. died, they would simply recast Iron Man. Just like they'd recast Wolverine if Hugh Jackman died or his contract ran out.
Still. I think they'd get way less views in the box office
They could always have him in suit for a few movies with a impersonator slowly shifting betweeen RD jr 's voice and the new actor until they reveal the new actor in a iron man solo movie.
I guess. Or they could say iron man died and then have someone else take the mantle
well marvel could do a robert downey made of CG like in civil war XD , im kidding, thats kinda disrespectful.
Wait a minute... so when the MCU eventually ends (which tbh better happen as soon as they start re-casting for age-related purposes I'm done) will that be the first time we actually see an ending to these characters?!
Well... even the comics are "re-casting these days"
Thor passed his hammer
There is a new Hulk
Iron Man has a likely successor
And certain characters like Wolverine are dead (Although he does have a clone of sorts I believe)
+Game Insane X-23 is Wolvie's clone, but she's a teenage girl with similar powers, not much like him character wise.
Bizz true but same with Miles Morales in a way being in the "regular" universe
+Game Insane Not really, Miles and Peter exist in the same continuity and occasionally interact.
I thought Miles was Ultimates continuity
It's interesting, there are a couple of superheroes where there is the possibility of passing on the mantle to someone else, I'm not just talking about the phantom where the character dying and passing on the legacy to his children is built in to the character but also people like the green lantern, black panther, the flash, etc. I think they will be the first instances where you see the growing old and dying.
I like how the thumbnail for this features Spider-Man, a character who has gone from awkward teen to married adult.
This better get 50 likes before I get back from my shit
Agreed!
oh shit you replied
Actually in the marvel story the worst xman ever story there is a mutant that can change the world whenever she wanted make things disappear and no one will realize it ever existed and later in the story she slowed superheroes aging
Scarlet Witch? And you mean House of M?
Can you tell me what comic this is from, please?
***** I think he means House of M.
+NerdSync the worst xman ever
Julian Rago That's the name of the story? XD Wow.
Perpetual comics like marvel and DC are basically just soap operas. Given enough time nothing really matters. Things are canon, until they're not.
This is why I like ultimate Spiderman. It has a beginning, middle, and end... Well three endings but it's there! And that's enough for me. I don't need Spiderman to go on for eternity.
The sliding timescale is ok, but i think of current comics if old characters as reboots with all the old stories happened but within the current time. But dc actually has reboots. If marvel just rebooted there characters every 10 or 15 years with new current titles and announce it as reboots it wouls explain everything.
5:27 I guess there's one good thing to come of America constantly being at war.
Between 1961 and around 2000 or so, Marvel characters aged roughly 1 year for every 4. After that, it got erratic. The anchors for this 1 in 4 theory are Spider-Man and Shadowcat.
wow wow wow hold on
are marvel characters aware that they are fictional????
(2:53)
Some of them. Deadpool for sure. She-hulk was at least in the past. I think she forgot it eventually.
Deadpool and Franklin Richards are aware .
Pretty much any GOD is aware.
Deadpool, She Hulk, Franklin, and i think Taskmaster kinda does
The Blonde Phantom was teaching She-Hulk about the 4th wall in that series, so they both new, but it isn't common knowledge.
He listed everyone who died in endgame...
Just what I was thinking!