The Orions maintaining piracy as a culture tied to the nobility is somewhat similar to traditional customs of warrior-nobility. Also, the fact that their homeworld is largely untouched is probably a similar matter - essentially no different to colonial or imperial powers, the homeland is largely safe, controlled, law-abiding, while the frontiers, subjects - or victims - bear the brunt of the downsides of such a system. The Portuguese were especially noted for practicing what was essentially just piracy at the height of their seagoing empire in the Indian Ocean, so it's not at all unreasonable step to expand that to be the _primary_ source of wealth for an empire in a fictional setting.
"The Emperor angrily demanded of him, “How dare you molest the seas?” To which the pirate replied, “How dare you molest the whole world? Because I do it with a small boat, I am called a pirate and a thief. You, with a great navy, molest the world and are called an emperor.” St. Augustine, The Emperor in this case is Alexander the Great.
I mean all European monacries were formed by a great charming knight... at if it wasn't uh they wouildn't like you telling on them... even if it was because of being the most successful merchant or colony founder of a major powers king... Or a thing that kinda happened because the kingdom is a really a federation.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough You realize this is just how it works now too, right? Like, yes, drawing analogies to history is useful, but it's not a solved problem.
Your confusion on how someone can be openly an economic predator and a trusted trade partner is understandable, but I'd point you towards Amazon as an example of how such an oxymoron can thrive.
Also the British started the Golden Age of Piracy by issuing Letters of Mark, officially sanctioning piracy against the Spanish Empire, yet the British were still a trade partner for many other nations despite the seeming contradiction. These early pirates were no mere Buccaneers, but professional navy officers, and it didn't hurt their reputation because economic warfare of this sort was normal, and plenty of other countries like France also made use of corsairs. So it's not without precedent that the nobility would be on on the piracy as well. Finally, in universe the Ferengi are known to go into piracy as well on occasion, but are still considered reliable business partners by most of the quadrant once you get used to dealing with them. By comparison, the Orions actually might seem like an easier trade partner to work with because they aren't into hyper capitalism, so you aren't having to look deeply into the fine print of every sale to be sure you aren't getting screwed.
This isn't an exceptional circumstance either, the best trade partners are almost always predatory. Not just for companies, but any organization, and can also be boiled down to individuals. Two huge nations which are both that way is the United States and the People's Republic of China. Individually imagine only your part of town is completely on its own with no logistical support from the wider parts of civilization. Whoever controls lots of power and resources compared to everyone else will become predatory, thus gaining them more power and resources, thus eventually establishing themselves as the primary person to go to for trade. A real life example is that dude who became the defacto military governor of CHAZ, albeit he failed to capitalize on his gains in the time CHAZ was tolerated and vanished.
"Pirate" is one of those words that the Universal Translator probably doesn't do justice. In real life history, the terms "pirate", "corsair", "privateer", and "buccaneer" all seem to be the same thing to most people, but have slightly different meanings. I suspect that the Orions are actually privateers, "licensed" pirates who require a letter of marque from the Crown to prey on a specific alien race and/or sector of space. In exchange, the ruler gets a share of the loot - which makes her the Queen of Pirates. Queen Elizabeth I was charged with piracy by the Spanish for funding Sir Francis Drake's voyage. (She also profited more than her annual income as queen from Drake's voyage. I don't think she minded the Spanish overmuch.)
@@whocares435-z9v I mean Reich I feel litterly tranbslates as relam... Which is isanly vague but fits how different the major unfied German states are... Much like Frances many many republics which Relam pretty much means an governed territory and repbluc a modern country. So yeah good exemple as priate is just as vague as relam and republic are.
That title really caught my eye, elegant and powerful. Any suggestions on good stories/episodes that feature House Tendi prominently? I'd love to see more on them.
Minor error, but I though they said Tendi would have to train here successor for 14 years, not 4. That is why he sister hid the pregnancy, since it was so long to be away from what and who she loved (platonically)
Wow, 14 years, that's real commitment. Do you remember where this situation came up? I'm interested in learning more about their culture and especially House Tendi. Any good starting points, episode/book/website/video wise?
It's an interesting clue to how the training to be Mistress of the Winter Constellations must work. I imagine there's some sort of graduation when they're 14 and the training becomes more independent as the title passes on. Kind of dark how they're these child assassins
Thank you so much for the time and effort you put into making this video, I really enjoyed the deep dive on the orions. I really am enjoying what Lower Decks is trying to do with them. Even so it’s hilarious watching you, the various show writers, and lore nerds all trying to take the complete jumbled mess of lore about them from a lot of very different shows and come up with a clear picture of them.
Thank you for this addition. I hope you do cover the Emerald Chain as well, especially the apparent disillusion the Andorians had with the Federation during that time, which made them the prominent second partners in it.
Fascinating culture. I love how the Orions' cultural rules makes sense in contrast, but are very different from what I'm used to. Pirate nobles, strong women who can hold leadership roles openly, abducting the groom instead of the bride at weddings. The best part of Trek and science fiction, for me, is exploring other cultures and understanding them, both their virtues and vices. Thanks for shedding some light on the Orions, good video :)
"You will feel the weight of the chain" is a cold line and I wish the Emerald Chain hadn't been so soundly defeated. But Michael Burnham is such a murder machine.
@@SmartSmears it makes sense that after losing their leader in such a public and humilating way, the emerald chain is too consumed with infighting/succession/power consolidation to be much of an external threat for a few years.
On pirate nobles, this is actually more common than we realize. The Norse/Scandinavians during the Viking Age were often simultaneously traders, raiders, pirates, and settlers, depending on how well armed, rich, and population dense the areas they, ah, "visited" were. Though the Orions did well to surpress internal House vs House conflicts. The best most Norse societies could achieve during that time was formalizing the rules, like with holmgang, or "highway robbery meets WWE Smackdown".
well i'm a modern day drect denantent of ODIN THE VIKING KING. like you know the king of viking and bacly made all the nrose motihaly GOD legands in teh first palce. if i wher to find spear of guntehr or the hammer of mornear lying aronud i would difently be able to use it due to my ancerty. if i was in teh marvel univers or multiverse i would gte huge isski pwoer boosts form my ancscrty alone by the way.
The Orion medical frigate is one of the coolest ship designs in all of _Lower Decks,_ and that says something considering they also introduced the Obenna, Parliament, Luna (canonically) and that vertical Romulan warbird.
it might be this 'pastime' of criminal behavior, might be in some way a test of the aristocracy. To prove they're still cunning and strong enough to maintain power over their house and bring benefit to the Orion people. Allowing their leaders to stay on top and keep the Orion government in a position of power among the local powers. Offering protection and trade agreements in exchange for putting up with a few, eccentricities.
I was wondering how accurate is the old FASA book about the Orions. They had two, linked books: The Orions Book of Common Knowledge and The Orions Book of Deep Knowledge. I loved the all the information they gave.
I'd like to point out that the orion queen seems to be a mix of Blue and Green, which is probably why both races respect her. An opposite of how ethnic groups that hate each other treat mixed individuals.
i swear the way the orion captain reacted to hearing mistress of the winter constellations, in the orion language must sound really fucking cool the UTs would have been translating
There's enough material to suggest that lying, stealing, and cheating are cultural norms for Orions and aren't inherently malicious. Tendi lies often but its portrayed as being cute, the Orion drug dealer that tries to steal from a intoxicated Tilly just flaty says "I'm Orion" when caught. Vulcan have logic, Klingons have honor, Ferengi have Rules of Acquisition, Tellarites have rudeness, Orions have piracy.
Surprised you didnt mention that as per this season it seems like the non piracy parts of their culture werw slowly fading away given the old medical ship and the scientists in SNW. That being said, they're also clawing that individuality back as people start moving away from piracy
You should read up on America’s “Robber Barons” and Thomas Edison’s history of blatant con-artistry and idea theft. Piratical individuals becoming culture heroes is not uncommon. The Orions just seem to have embraced it more deeply as a culture.
Were Viking raids (for instance) considered criminal or can that judgement only exist once you have some universally agreed standards? Could another standard be 'the spoils of war' in which each raid is also a military operation? Would 'raider' then be a better term for Orion pirates to spare us the political confusion between poor criminals and militant nobility?
Honestly the main reason why you don't mess with trade lanes you are next to... is the risk is sudden death unless you are the biggest power in the region and don't do anything to stupid to make it worth it for the lesser powers in your region to team up or get a bigger fish our likely both to very much sudden death you. And the reward is nmnegtive repuytaion gain and not nearly aas much money as playing along gets you... Which for a a state like orion where they are a major trade hub much like turkey today always was... Then you need to make as many freinds and you can and have no enemies or you'll get broken like the piggy bank you are. So yeah even if orions didn't know what their place in the galaxy is when they got FTL they 100% know now in present trek.
To be fair in the 31st century all the planets we know an love seemd to have back slide to what ever they were pre star fleet... Which given the trigger and every one having tech asscated most with star fleet the warp drive it makes sense enough and is a fun aspect of latter discovery seasons... Now is it the 100% cannon this time future we'll see when star trek's present gets their ina few IRL dacades... But given how the past of the prime timeline isn't a constant now like the future never has been anything goes...
It's always been funny to me how little the Orions have featured in Trek until relatively recently. There were there ever since the days of the original show, but unlike races like Klingons or Romulans, they just sort of fell off the radar. Why did those groups and others manage to stay prominent in the franchise but not these guys? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Part of that was due to TNG, DS9 and VOY (because of its plot location) all were focused on new aliens. Romulans, Klingons and Vulcans ere brought in only at times for older fans and to link back to TOS. But Roddenberry didn't want to heavily focus on old TOS aliens, as to separate the two series into separate "era", distinguishing the old from new. It wasn't just a new Enterprise, a new captain, it had to feel like a new universe as well.
Perhaps the nobility has conveniently written itself above the laws that apply to their commoners, or even placed such self-indulgent allowances within the laws themselves. (They certainly wouldn't be the first aristocracy to have legislated and lived by a double standard.) This would allow them to consider themselves privateers rather than pirates, and operate under what they consider the auspices of their government. On the other hand, they might still call themselves "pirates," because, "Arrgh," "pirates" sounds cooler. I find it fascinating that most are willing to give D'Vana Tendi a pass because she's cute. She's still likely robbed those who could not afford the loss, committed acts of violence, and stood by while others have been killed on her watch and under her leadership. Ignoring it or attempting to whitewash it does the character a disservice. I think Tendi is great ... but she's not innocent.
I heard they used to be merchants belonging to a great empire but that empire was destroyed when their sun blew up before they could change it out. With the lost of the controlling government of that sector of space. The Orions turn to pirates and other criminal paths.
@@CaptainDonut0 north korea supposedly has the record for the biggest pro wrestling audience ever. I said "supposedly" because it was more or less a mandatory audience (that and literally the only entertainment they had that day). Ultimate Muscle is a show about intergalactic wrestling
@CaptainDonut0 nope, Japanese. Ultimate Muscle is the dub name for the sequel (original name is Kinnikuman with the sequel being Kinnikuman Nisei) but the toys (erasers in Japan) was released in the US as M.U.S.C.L.E but not the original anime.
4:50 makes sense. One of the most expensive costs for a pirate ship in our world is finding a port that will take them. The prices for anything for pirates in these places are truly extortionist. So if you're not running a society for pirates you would want to avoid this by creating stable open markets.
I still wonder why most of the Orions in Discovery look like they are wearing face masks and extra prosthetics rather than just being actors painted green. It makes them look weird and it's got some uncanny valley vibes. Yes I am aware these people are aliens but I think with modern day Trek, the Orions are good with just being painted green and wearing wigs.
yeah last season when they visited the pheromone dungeon the lady in charge said Tendi used to be a frequent visitor, I think she's lying about not having them to avoid stereotypes in Starfleet which is her right I guess
An alien once asked Kirk, in response to his seemingly casual attitude towards conducting actual warfare with real weapons, "what kind of monster are you!?" His response? "I'm a barbarian, you said so yourself." "I had hoped I was mistaken." "Oh no, you were quite accurate. I intend to prove it to you." Que Kirk revealing that total orbital bombardment is not only a procedure practiced by Starfleet against enemies actively hostile to the Federation, its a General Order. Starfleet is out to explore, not to change other people's societies just because they disapprove of what they do. They even have a general order directly saying they can't interfere. That's why they also reserve the right to defend themselves and the Federation's way of life in the face of hostile nations like the Dominion and the Klingons, etc.
@@formlessone8246 Also they are a useful tool, need something from the Klingons or romulans but don't want to be seen as the one doing it? Hire a bunch of Orions. This happened a bunch in real life.
Their not, the Tellarities held back a species joining until TNG era because of their mining operations used slavery. Tellarites may be rude and augmentative, but they have morals and principles.
@The_Str4nger Also Jamie's thing from Megas XLR " *What the heck are you doing Coop ??!!! I got numbers off green skin girls !!! GREEN SKIN GIRLS !!!* "
they are nice until you they have good money from your trades... sound like fenergin but not that indirect and more sneaky when it comes to diplomacy, but less sneaky and direct in the trade itself.. after all, it was the ferengi who made latinum the main currency of the 2 quadrants
@@JT5555 Actually, if there was a segment of a population with a insidious ability to control the rest, the more likely case would be eradication or enslavement. Which goes all the way back to they way they were in TOS. You don't willingly walk around in a society where a select few can easily control you like a puppet. Who would stick around for that environment?
@@Veritas.0 well we know that orion pheromone dens exist so at least a small chunk of them are just flat out addicted to it but it's possible that orion males are just submissive by nature (that seemed to be the case with what i think was tendi's cousin who basically demanded that she dominate him) and it's more of a consensual enslavement. i don't find it hard at all to imagine a race of sexy pirates having a partly BDSM society where one half of the population is being willingly dominated by the other. power dynamics is a big part of piracy after all: it's how you keep your crew in line and inspire fear in your enemies as well as victims.
@@JT5555 I think all the other episodes from all other series with extremely aggressive and vastly stronger males than the females speaks enough for the 'dominated ones' as being the minority. And historic piracy was mostly democratic. The captain led by the mandate of the crew. Keep them in rum and riches and you get to lead, when that ends, so does your leadership.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Basically they're more privateers than pirates at this point. 'Past this line you legally cannot be raided.'
The Orions maintaining piracy as a culture tied to the nobility is somewhat similar to traditional customs of warrior-nobility. Also, the fact that their homeworld is largely untouched is probably a similar matter - essentially no different to colonial or imperial powers, the homeland is largely safe, controlled, law-abiding, while the frontiers, subjects - or victims - bear the brunt of the downsides of such a system.
The Portuguese were especially noted for practicing what was essentially just piracy at the height of their seagoing empire in the Indian Ocean, so it's not at all unreasonable step to expand that to be the _primary_ source of wealth for an empire in a fictional setting.
"The Emperor angrily demanded of him, “How dare you molest the seas?” To which the pirate replied, “How dare you molest the whole world? Because I do it with a small boat, I am called a pirate and a thief. You, with a great navy, molest the world and are called an emperor.” St. Augustine, The Emperor in this case is Alexander the Great.
"The closer you are to the elite the more tied to criminal behavior you are" I think we found the metaphor right here.
Politicians are indeed the biggest mafia oppressors. It's weird that so many still don't get this.
It is interesting that they don't try to hide this. Refreshing, almost, in a violent way :)
I mean all European monacries were formed by a great charming knight... at if it wasn't uh they wouildn't like you telling on them... even if it was because of being the most successful merchant or colony founder of a major powers king... Or a thing that kinda happened because the kingdom is a really a federation.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough You realize this is just how it works now too, right? Like, yes, drawing analogies to history is useful, but it's not a solved problem.
Your confusion on how someone can be openly an economic predator and a trusted trade partner is understandable, but I'd point you towards Amazon as an example of how such an oxymoron can thrive.
Or China, with it's debt trap Diplomacy
Also the British started the Golden Age of Piracy by issuing Letters of Mark, officially sanctioning piracy against the Spanish Empire, yet the British were still a trade partner for many other nations despite the seeming contradiction. These early pirates were no mere Buccaneers, but professional navy officers, and it didn't hurt their reputation because economic warfare of this sort was normal, and plenty of other countries like France also made use of corsairs. So it's not without precedent that the nobility would be on on the piracy as well. Finally, in universe the Ferengi are known to go into piracy as well on occasion, but are still considered reliable business partners by most of the quadrant once you get used to dealing with them. By comparison, the Orions actually might seem like an easier trade partner to work with because they aren't into hyper capitalism, so you aren't having to look deeply into the fine print of every sale to be sure you aren't getting screwed.
This isn't an exceptional circumstance either, the best trade partners are almost always predatory. Not just for companies, but any organization, and can also be boiled down to individuals. Two huge nations which are both that way is the United States and the People's Republic of China.
Individually imagine only your part of town is completely on its own with no logistical support from the wider parts of civilization. Whoever controls lots of power and resources compared to everyone else will become predatory, thus gaining them more power and resources, thus eventually establishing themselves as the primary person to go to for trade. A real life example is that dude who became the defacto military governor of CHAZ, albeit he failed to capitalize on his gains in the time CHAZ was tolerated and vanished.
Economic powers by their very nature are predatory.
No predators without prey though.
"Pirate" is one of those words that the Universal Translator probably doesn't do justice. In real life history, the terms "pirate", "corsair", "privateer", and "buccaneer" all seem to be the same thing to most people, but have slightly different meanings. I suspect that the Orions are actually privateers, "licensed" pirates who require a letter of marque from the Crown to prey on a specific alien race and/or sector of space. In exchange, the ruler gets a share of the loot - which makes her the Queen of Pirates. Queen Elizabeth I was charged with piracy by the Spanish for funding Sir Francis Drake's voyage. (She also profited more than her annual income as queen from Drake's voyage. I don't think she minded the Spanish overmuch.)
Yeah, they probably have their own untranslatable word for it that only best-fits as Pirate, like how Reich only best-fits at Kingdom, etc.
@@whocares435-z9v I mean Reich I feel litterly tranbslates as relam... Which is isanly vague but fits how different the major unfied German states are... Much like Frances many many republics which Relam pretty much means an governed territory and repbluc a modern country. So yeah good exemple as priate is just as vague as relam and republic are.
Tendi is the best ❤
Mistress of the Winter Constellations❤
That title really caught my eye, elegant and powerful.
Any suggestions on good stories/episodes that feature House Tendi prominently? I'd love to see more on them.
Minor error, but I though they said Tendi would have to train here successor for 14 years, not 4. That is why he sister hid the pregnancy, since it was so long to be away from what and who she loved (platonically)
Yup it was 14 years
Wow, 14 years, that's real commitment.
Do you remember where this situation came up? I'm interested in learning more about their culture and especially House Tendi. Any good starting points, episode/book/website/video wise?
@@Hrafnskald Watch lower decks.
It's an interesting clue to how the training to be Mistress of the Winter Constellations must work. I imagine there's some sort of graduation when they're 14 and the training becomes more independent as the title passes on. Kind of dark how they're these child assassins
It's good to see another species getting fleshed out and given some actual character in Trek.
Thank you so much for the time and effort you put into making this video, I really enjoyed the deep dive on the orions. I really am enjoying what Lower Decks is trying to do with them. Even so it’s hilarious watching you, the various show writers, and lore nerds all trying to take the complete jumbled mess of lore about them from a lot of very different shows and come up with a clear picture of them.
Thank you for this addition. I hope you do cover the Emerald Chain as well, especially the apparent disillusion the Andorians had with the Federation during that time, which made them the prominent second partners in it.
Lower Decks is just such a gem.
Fascinating culture. I love how the Orions' cultural rules makes sense in contrast, but are very different from what I'm used to. Pirate nobles, strong women who can hold leadership roles openly, abducting the groom instead of the bride at weddings. The best part of Trek and science fiction, for me, is exploring other cultures and understanding them, both their virtues and vices. Thanks for shedding some light on the Orions, good video :)
It feels like the Orions will evolve into something like a Gilded, gentrified, Victorian-esque, still Matriarchal Great Britain.
i'd be game for hot,green alien steampunks.
"You will feel the weight of the chain" is a cold line and I wish the Emerald Chain hadn't been so soundly defeated. But Michael Burnham is such a murder machine.
Ooh, that sounds like a great line. Gotta love an enemy who knows how to menace.
When/what episode or show was it from?
Technically not defeated, they just ignore them after the leader died, which is odd given they do mention them still very much existing
@@SmartSmears it makes sense that after losing their leader in such a public and humilating way, the emerald chain is too consumed with infighting/succession/power consolidation to be much of an external threat for a few years.
On pirate nobles, this is actually more common than we realize.
The Norse/Scandinavians during the Viking Age were often simultaneously traders, raiders, pirates, and settlers, depending on how well armed, rich, and population dense the areas they, ah, "visited" were. Though the Orions did well to surpress internal House vs House conflicts. The best most Norse societies could achieve during that time was formalizing the rules, like with holmgang, or "highway robbery meets WWE Smackdown".
well i'm a modern day drect denantent of ODIN THE VIKING KING. like you know the king of viking and bacly made all the nrose motihaly GOD legands in teh first palce. if i wher to find spear of guntehr or the hammer of mornear lying aronud i would difently be able to use it due to my ancerty. if i was in teh marvel univers or multiverse i would gte huge isski pwoer boosts form my ancscrty alone by the way.
The Orion medical frigate is one of the coolest ship designs in all of _Lower Decks,_ and that says something considering they also introduced the Obenna, Parliament, Luna (canonically) and that vertical Romulan warbird.
it might be this 'pastime' of criminal behavior, might be in some way a test of the aristocracy. To prove they're still cunning and strong enough to maintain power over their house and bring benefit to the Orion people. Allowing their leaders to stay on top and keep the Orion government in a position of power among the local powers. Offering protection and trade agreements in exchange for putting up with a few, eccentricities.
I'll always love tendi.
Who wouldn't?
Perfect, thank you! I am planning to do two versions of Tendi for FedCon in Bonn this year.
I was wondering how accurate is the old FASA book about the Orions. They had two, linked books: The Orions Book of Common Knowledge and The Orions Book of Deep Knowledge. I loved the all the information they gave.
The FASA books are so much fun, love the Klingon ones.
I love LD expanding the lore for Orions.
Their like the Hutts from Star Wars but less evil.
and less ugly.
@@JT5555 The evil and the ugly ones goes Pakled
Love it!
I'd like to point out that the orion queen seems to be a mix of Blue and Green, which is probably why both races respect her. An opposite of how ethnic groups that hate each other treat mixed individuals.
Id love to see lore about their historic relations with the Ferengi.
When I read the title, I thought this video was about onions, not constellations. Great, and now I’m hungry for onion rings.
You gonna do a video on Starbase 80?
Seconding
You didn't mention the greatest new addition to the lore: The incredible BLAZZARD and its distinctive aaAAUUUUUUuuuh!!!!
i swear the way the orion captain reacted to hearing mistress of the winter constellations, in the orion language must sound really fucking cool the UTs would have been translating
There's enough material to suggest that lying, stealing, and cheating are cultural norms for Orions and aren't inherently malicious. Tendi lies often but its portrayed as being cute, the Orion drug dealer that tries to steal from a intoxicated Tilly just flaty says "I'm Orion" when caught.
Vulcan have logic, Klingons have honor, Ferengi have Rules of Acquisition, Tellarites have rudeness, Orions have piracy.
Lower Decks is such an awesome series, and yeah the Orion character was funny as heck
an easy way to explain how orion society works is that the lower class are pirates while the upper class are more like the mafia.
Like so many other things. Lower Decks did more to flesh out Star Trek lore than many other series.
Tendi a baddie
70th like!👍
Awesome video!🤘
Keep up the awesome work!🤘😎🤘
They are a bit like the Vikings, as willing to trade as raid.
Surprised you didnt mention that as per this season it seems like the non piracy parts of their culture werw slowly fading away given the old medical ship and the scientists in SNW. That being said, they're also clawing that individuality back as people start moving away from piracy
its hilarious that a cartoon is the best Star Trek show post Enterprise!
(best content would be Picard S3)
Don't forget: the blue skinned house of Azure pronounces the species' name "Oh-ree-on".
You should read up on America’s “Robber Barons” and Thomas Edison’s history of blatant con-artistry and idea theft. Piratical individuals becoming culture heroes is not uncommon. The Orions just seem to have embraced it more deeply as a culture.
Were Viking raids (for instance) considered criminal or can that judgement only exist once you have some universally agreed standards? Could another standard be 'the spoils of war' in which each raid is also a military operation? Would 'raider' then be a better term for Orion pirates to spare us the political confusion between poor criminals and militant nobility?
Sometimes, we leave our kin, so we have no one to be disappointed by.
Honestly the main reason why you don't mess with trade lanes you are next to... is the risk is sudden death unless you are the biggest power in the region and don't do anything to stupid to make it worth it for the lesser powers in your region to team up or get a bigger fish our likely both to very much sudden death you. And the reward is nmnegtive repuytaion gain and not nearly aas much money as playing along gets you... Which for a a state like orion where they are a major trade hub much like turkey today always was... Then you need to make as many freinds and you can and have no enemies or you'll get broken like the piggy bank you are. So yeah even if orions didn't know what their place in the galaxy is when they got FTL they 100% know now in present trek.
To be fair in the 31st century all the planets we know an love seemd to have back slide to what ever they were pre star fleet... Which given the trigger and every one having tech asscated most with star fleet the warp drive it makes sense enough and is a fun aspect of latter discovery seasons... Now is it the 100% cannon this time future we'll see when star trek's present gets their ina few IRL dacades... But given how the past of the prime timeline isn't a constant now like the future never has been anything goes...
It's always been funny to me how little the Orions have featured in Trek until relatively recently. There were there ever since the days of the original show, but unlike races like Klingons or Romulans, they just sort of fell off the radar. Why did those groups and others manage to stay prominent in the franchise but not these guys? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Part of that was due to TNG, DS9 and VOY (because of its plot location) all were focused on new aliens. Romulans, Klingons and Vulcans ere brought in only at times for older fans and to link back to TOS. But Roddenberry didn't want to heavily focus on old TOS aliens, as to separate the two series into separate "era", distinguishing the old from new. It wasn't just a new Enterprise, a new captain, it had to feel like a new universe as well.
Perhaps the nobility has conveniently written itself above the laws that apply to their commoners, or even placed such self-indulgent allowances within the laws themselves. (They certainly wouldn't be the first aristocracy to have legislated and lived by a double standard.) This would allow them to consider themselves privateers rather than pirates, and operate under what they consider the auspices of their government.
On the other hand, they might still call themselves "pirates," because, "Arrgh," "pirates" sounds cooler.
I find it fascinating that most are willing to give D'Vana Tendi a pass because she's cute. She's still likely robbed those who could not afford the loss, committed acts of violence, and stood by while others have been killed on her watch and under her leadership. Ignoring it or attempting to whitewash it does the character a disservice. I think Tendi is great ... but she's not innocent.
SPACE!!!
Basically, it is okay for Orions to steal from outsiders. The other aliens
Orions have honor and respect for other Orions
🖖
No ''Mistress of the Eternal Flan'' , huh ?
SCIENCE!!!
they sound to me more like yakuza in many ways.
I heard they used to be merchants belonging to a great empire but that empire was destroyed when their sun blew up before they could change it out. With the lost of the controlling government of that sector of space. The Orions turn to pirates and other criminal paths.
The orions seem like north koreia. Dose alking of things to its people. And yet safe to tourists.
So you're saying Orion would host the biggest intergalactic pro-wrestling spectacle ever?
ULTIMATE MUSCLE!
@targetseeker (?_?)
@@CaptainDonut0 north korea supposedly has the record for the biggest pro wrestling audience ever. I said "supposedly" because it was more or less a mandatory audience (that and literally the only entertainment they had that day).
Ultimate Muscle is a show about intergalactic wrestling
@@targetseeker sounds like a north korean anime. And aparrently the love Lithuanian Vodka. Acording to one turists visit a store and filming it.
@CaptainDonut0 nope, Japanese. Ultimate Muscle is the dub name for the sequel (original name is Kinnikuman with the sequel being Kinnikuman Nisei) but the toys (erasers in Japan) was released in the US as M.U.S.C.L.E but not the original anime.
4:50 makes sense. One of the most expensive costs for a pirate ship in our world is finding a port that will take them. The prices for anything for pirates in these places are truly extortionist. So if you're not running a society for pirates you would want to avoid this by creating stable open markets.
*cough* Sir Francis Drake *cough*
I still wonder why most of the Orions in Discovery look like they are wearing face masks and extra prosthetics rather than just being actors painted green. It makes them look weird and it's got some uncanny valley vibes. Yes I am aware these people are aliens but I think with modern day Trek, the Orions are good with just being painted green and wearing wigs.
Discovery messes up lots of things, I would take it with pinch of salt.
but like.. if they ALL do it as a culture is it ACTUALLY crime? like how do you have CRIME if you don't have the structure it disrupts?
I still think you need the stink to be a mistress of the winter constellations she just wouldn’t use them
yeah last season when they visited the pheromone dungeon the lady in charge said Tendi used to be a frequent visitor, I think she's lying about not having them to avoid stereotypes in Starfleet which is her right I guess
It's bizarre how accepting Starfleet is of a society of unrepentant mass murderers
An alien once asked Kirk, in response to his seemingly casual attitude towards conducting actual warfare with real weapons, "what kind of monster are you!?" His response?
"I'm a barbarian, you said so yourself."
"I had hoped I was mistaken."
"Oh no, you were quite accurate. I intend to prove it to you."
Que Kirk revealing that total orbital bombardment is not only a procedure practiced by Starfleet against enemies actively hostile to the Federation, its a General Order.
Starfleet is out to explore, not to change other people's societies just because they disapprove of what they do. They even have a general order directly saying they can't interfere. That's why they also reserve the right to defend themselves and the Federation's way of life in the face of hostile nations like the Dominion and the Klingons, etc.
@@formlessone8246 Also they are a useful tool, need something from the Klingons or romulans but don't want to be seen as the one doing it? Hire a bunch of Orions.
This happened a bunch in real life.
Their not, the Tellarities held back a species joining until TNG era because of their mining operations used slavery.
Tellarites may be rude and augmentative, but they have morals and principles.
Dont all good civilisations involve pirates?
"Green alien chicks.....must have...." - Captain James T Kirk
Actually, that's Pike's thing. 😊
@@grahamturner1290 also Kirk's
@The_Str4nger
Also Jamie's thing from Megas XLR
" *What the heck are you doing Coop ??!!! I got numbers off green skin girls !!! GREEN SKIN GIRLS !!!* "
@@The_Str4nger Kelvin timeline Kirk, definitely.
they are nice until you they have good money from your trades... sound like fenergin but not that indirect and more sneaky when it comes to diplomacy, but less sneaky and direct in the trade itself.. after all, it was the ferengi who made latinum the main currency of the 2 quadrants
I am unreasonably bothered by 'daigther' - Perfect Cell
Orion is much like Vegas under the mob. Crime is bad for business so the criminal mob does not condone it openly or rampantly.
Dirty Orion criminals
Sheesh. Nu-trek, outside of Prodigy, is member-berries at best, outright 'hate-speech' (keks) at normal for nu-trek.
The Feminization of the Orion men made me sick 🤢
....... what a crappy thing to say. There's nothing wrong with being feminine.....
orion men were always orion women's bitches. why do you think the women have pheromones to begin with? to keep their bitch boys in line.
@@JT5555 Actually, if there was a segment of a population with a insidious ability to control the rest, the more likely case would be eradication or enslavement. Which goes all the way back to they way they were in TOS. You don't willingly walk around in a society where a select few can easily control you like a puppet. Who would stick around for that environment?
@@Veritas.0 well we know that orion pheromone dens exist so at least a small chunk of them are just flat out addicted to it but it's possible that orion males are just submissive by nature (that seemed to be the case with what i think was tendi's cousin who basically demanded that she dominate him) and it's more of a consensual enslavement.
i don't find it hard at all to imagine a race of sexy pirates having a partly BDSM society where one half of the population is being willingly dominated by the other. power dynamics is a big part of piracy after all: it's how you keep your crew in line and inspire fear in your enemies as well as victims.
@@JT5555 I think all the other episodes from all other series with extremely aggressive and vastly stronger males than the females speaks enough for the 'dominated ones' as being the minority. And historic piracy was mostly democratic. The captain led by the mandate of the crew. Keep them in rum and riches and you get to lead, when that ends, so does your leadership.