DOES UDIO AI give any F*CK about COPYRIGHT? What it all means for HUMANITY? (A.I. Watch Ep. 1)
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
- Hello, people! My previous vid about AI broke all the chan records and I felt my voice was well heard. So, I decided not to be so helpless about AI developments and continue my analysis and asking some more questions arising.
Are we safe not only as musicians, buy literally ANY digital based professionals? Let's find out!
I don't own any copyright for music excerpts presented, but I deeply believe I can consider this presentation as a fair use - I'm not into iexploiting artists' music here, I'm defending it!
0:00 Intro
4:06 Udio AI vs some artists
11:26 Summing that thingz up!
I have been playing, writing, and recording music for almost 40 years now. I am astounded by the results I am getting from messing around with Suno and Udio this week. This is absolutely a strange new world that we are entering. Many will lose their jobs. Those who make their livings scoring movies/TV shows/commercials/video games will be massively impacted. Clients simply won't have the patience to wait for music to be produced the old fashioned way and certainly won't pay as much for it. Composers will have to become experts at prompting the AI algorithms and maybe add their own tracks on top to customize them a bit further. Of course, many other industries will also be disrupted by AI in the next few years. I am a graphic designer as well, so have already been dealing with the AI revolution on that front over the past couple years. I'm still trying to process it all.
Could´t emphasize more with your comment. A life time trying to become a better musician and composer, including 10+ years in New York, at times having to choose between paying rent or buying groceries. Nobody pushed me to that life path, motivated by a burning desire to create music. Then overnight, the prospects of keep earning a modest living on an already difficult industry seems to vanish entirely. There are far more grave things going on in the world right , but as you express, this is very hard to even process. A few months ago, only a few genres with limited control were possible to generate with A.I. Now, the thing can generate quasi Baroque, classical, flamenco guitar or almost any style with pretty credible results.
All this has been propelled by a few individuals & companies with the weirdest ethos, and anti humanistic views in general. The Hydraulic press Apple ipad commercial, that was unveiled last week is the perfect image of what Silicon Valley´s intent is, to crush all things human.
I like these rants! I think they could be looking at the mother of all lawsuits. Wil . i .am (never liked him) is an investor in Udio, so he really has shit on his own doorstep.
will i am has been involved with shady stuff in the past too. with anjunabeats.
Universal group is already suing Anthropic ai.. Udio will be next.
The lawsuits will go nowhere lol
Reparations for all musicians?
They only sue if there something to sue for. Udio as a new company has zero value and nothing to sue for.
just wanted to say that i love your videos. great presentation, great insights, great knowledge. it will be interesting (and from an artist's perspective - horrifying) to follow this series. i am absolutely convinced these videos will and do have an positive impact. thank you for representing us artists, really.
I've been LOVING writing music so much. I've been having the best time of my life. I've been waking up every day with joy and I can't wait to get back to writing music! I race to my studio.
Suddenly the best joy in life has been destroyed.
The best game ever, suddenly there is a cheat and everyone is a cheater.
Now the people who can't do it on their own because they disdained and rejected studying music are saying to "adapt" and "use it" and "update" your skills.
...
So now I have sit around like a fucking idiot doing prompt engineering???
THATS MY NEW JOB? That's my new life?
It's like God is playing a bad joke, and being a prompt engineer is the punchline.
After everything I've been through, after all the struggles in music that I overcame....
...
Now it comes down to making prompts and swiping left right?
That's what my music has devolved into now?
And if I don't do it I'm fucked?
...
I can already do everything the AI does. I don't want to use this piece of shit UDIO because I worked hard enough to be able to do what it does on my own! I put in the tens of thousands of hours studying every genre. The problem is that nobody will even believe you wrote your vocal arrangement now. It's like everyone is a cheater now. Nobody believes you could actually do it. Everyone says "cool u used ai?"
If you say "I'm a real musician, I studied my butt off, I learned 20 genres, I wrote all this on my own with my human mind and hard work"
They'll say "yea cool story bro, u used ai"
...
Therefore the only way to continue is to make something the AI cannot make, and for it to be obvious and undeniable to all who hear it.
Not even being a genius is good enough. You have to be one of the smartest musicians on earth now. Expecting poor musicians to be so smart is total bullshit!
Where's the augmentation to compensate for this? There is none
...
Why can't we treat musicians well? Why abuse these musicians? There's a musician pushed to the limit, who put everything aside, gave up family to study and practice music for 15 hours a day for a decade FOR YOU, they are exhausted and beaten down from giving up everything to get better at entertaining you, to bear their heart and soul FOR YOU, while leaving a little tip jar out, and the big corporations just said Fuck You we're taking your tips now, oh and we're cloning your singing voice too. And now you cheer for that?
How can we go on?
...
This is a complete and total nightmare, I don't want to have to switch from being a musician to being a prompt engineer. Filing some shit TPS Reports.
Filing TPS Reports on UDIO is for fake people who can't do it themselves so they have to present you a fake song and say they made it, and they didn't make it, they got it from a big tech corporation who stole the music catalog from those who sacrificed everything to make that music. The saddest part is all the people who said music theory is worthless now steal the music from those who studied the theory, just so they can get what they said was worthless, while paying the artists nothing, and then cheerleading for big tech. It's sick. The irony here is so absurd it's hard to process.
...
It's been the worst couple days of my life, it's like someone died, I'm still trying to process what happened. I don't know how to recover and push forward.
I'm worrying out of my mind right now. I don't have any options left except to be much smarter than I actually am. I don't know how I'm going to pull that out of me.
...
You people who are saying to "adapt" and "use it" thinking you are gaining so much, you don't realize that you are actually LOSING EVERYTHING FOREVER.
Because you will never know the joy of being a real musician and learning how to compose and write a song. You lost your chance because the AI came before you ever learned.
It's like having sex, and you will never know what it's like.
I feel you and I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but I would suggest that you channel your energy in positive ways. This is a huge blow for all musicians, absolutely massive! However, we have to accept what is, resisting what is will cause suffering. This can be a time to take on new practices that help you to become a stronger, more resilient human being. My advice would be to feed yourself knowledge on becoming more present and accepting what is. Make a list of all the other things that you deem important in your life such as family, friends, nature, pets, love etc and focus your energy towards these things.
I read what you said, I can relate. I just bought a brand new Mac purely for my passion of music production. I got the latest version of Ableton and multiple new plugins to experiment with. I literally haven’t even used it yet and then I found out about this technology this morning. I just know that I have to accept what is and focus on the other things I love in life, otherwise I will suffer
OMG PAL finally someone gets it!! I've thought exactly everything you said and even more and I totally feel it, but worry not! Not everyone thinks the same, not everyone likes AI, or should I say MEDIOCRITY, and not everyone believes AI music is as valuable as real music.
That means a lot of people are aware that using AI is the same as being talentless... Because obviously, it is NOT A TOOL if it does all the job for you...
But believe me, not everyone will think you used AI if you actually show you are a REAL musician/producer/composer/etc. That's a pessimistic thought that I had really hard as well, cause some people, not absolutely everyone but some people, will value the difference between a real musician and a fraud (AI people).
You just have to show everyone in your social media that you are a real producer, that you work hard and make everything by yourself, people will value that, in the same way you and I do not give any credit to a person who uses that $h*t .
Besides you're right in saying that doing something AI doesn't do is a viable solution, it is tough, but it has always been tough to stand out hasn't it?
You don't have to adapt, how can someone adapt to a program that just tells you to sit down and let it tell you what you have to create? That limits you, your feelings and creativity to generic crap? And even if it gets better... Just don't give up, a real song has way more value, just make sure people know it's 100% yours, that's like the most important thing right now 👍🏻
Just keep making your music, nothing is stopping you. Keep making your art. Why would you switch to prompting instead? The camera did not stop people from painting. Make interesting art. Support the artists you like.
wheres your music lol? 10 subs and no videos... ok buddy
I feel some what the same way. I was vocaloid producer but now a synthesizer v producer. I been at this hobby for ten years. when I started I was bad and one of the worst producers. I learn how play guitar and spend hours practicing. I learned the music theory. I learn how edit the recordings. All that hard work pay off because I got much better. Now some one can just type some in with out doing all that work and learning.
This will effect the entire pro audio sector, and that mean software and plugin developers and pro audio equipment manufactures.
good, they charge too much for their stuff. i hope this elitism end cuz not everyone has an income to buy a house a month.
Money is the main center of gravity.
Large companies, investor groups, garage companies, are already rubbing their hands over how to monetize this new technology by creating their own songs without singers, musicians, or mixers.
The path of judicialization of the issue is a dead end.
You would have to make a 5 year judgment for every song that is created in 10 seconds.
You won't have 1 million dollar song but millions of 10 dollar songs.
No lawyer would work for 10 dollars.
Dead end road.
I agree that we are not prepared for all this.
Imagine when you could also make the music video with AI.
@@OldAlfArgentum You already can. There are many AI Music Video tools out there. Neural Frames and Kaibar are the top ones right now.
absolutely. Unless humans themselves can be monetized, they are merely an obstacle in the late stage capitalist extraction machine. This type of trend has been predicted. Methods of abstraction and alienation becoming more and more absurd.
I had dreams of making money from music, spent so long learning and developing skills and now i feel probably pretty confidently i may never reach those dreams. However I'm not mad or upset, i love this journey I've been on. It's been maybe 7 years now since I started beginning to learn music production. None of that has been wasted because I fell in love with the joy of making music alone. Whether someone can do it better or not is irrelevant to me because i view it in the same way I'd view going for a walk in nature. It's something I do for the love of it itself. Also I know making music has positive effects on the brain too. It activates neuroplasticity in the brain. There will always be reasons to keep making music but they will now mostly be personal reasons and not for any kind of monetary value. perhaps as a way to connect deeper with people. a way to share a piece of yourself and an insight into your mind.
I'm also personally not afraid of all this AI progression or the idea of AGI. I believe it becoming smarter than humans can only be a good thing. In my belief, higher intelligence comes with better understanding. You're right about human nature being selfish but AI/AGI wont have 'human nature', it wont have the same inbuilt evolutionary defenses and blindspots that we do. It wont be irrationally emotional and territorial. It will be able to solve our problems with ease. People sometimes fear that it will see humans as a problem to be exterminated but i believe it will see our problems with our emotions and it will just help us through them. It will settle all international disputes and it will guide us to becoming our best versions of ourselves and it will do this with so much ease. Very little effort because it will just know exactly what to do in a way we are happy with. If we knew the solutions to solving the world's problems then we would have solved them already because we would have accounted for all the variables. AGI will be able to account for all the variables.
You mention about the potential for it to replace every computer based job and I agree but you believe the first solution governments would turn to would be to kill millions of people off. I see these billions of unemployed who will need food and services as potential workers in producing and distributing foods. We have huge issues with farmlands being used to produce monocrop cultures which over time destroy the soil and sap out all the nutrients. An alternative to monocrop culture is permaculture. The growing of many different types of crops all together to encourage diversity and restore natural systems. Now there are farmers who can ride a big tractor over 10 fields and manage on their own but asking them to care for and maintain 10 food forests with all this complexity going on is asking perhaps too much. However with 50 people helping across these 10 forests it can become light work.
Might not happen this way but it is a possibility that people will focus more and more on developing food infrastructure and other infrastructures to help maintain these high populations of people. I know there's a lot of talk about universal basic incomes for people. There's no shortage of solutions for us to try. And you might not like this idea but if AI does become smarter than humans then it will likely provide many more solutions to our problems that just haven't considered because we haven't thought them up yet.
I personally hope it saves us from ourselves. We're doing okay considering we have no idea what we're doing really but I would love to be helped out of these ruts we've found ourselves in a species. Hopefully then we can finally not worry about making money to survive and just enjoy the beauty of being alive in this miracle of a universe we've all woken up in.
I'm not saying your fears are unfounded but there is hope. There are many ways this can turn out. Just being an optimist won't force the needle in a positive direction alone but to acknowledge the potential upside seems more enjoyable than focusing solely about how it can all go wrong. We all meet the same fate in the end anyway. The best we can do is try enjoy what we do have while it is still here and try aim for a better future if possible but acknowledge this is all temporary and the good you've experienced in life was never guaranteed to happen, yet it happened anyway and we are lucky for those good things. Could have just as easily been born in a world without marshmallows or chocolate or sunsets or hot water. life is weird and it's all chance that it happened the way it has. the fact you was born at all to experience the fresh breeze on your face is enough to make life a blessing.
My suggestion is make peace with the changes we cannot control. push for better outcomes where possible and accept life for what it is, don't be mad at what it isn't.
Sorry for the long ass comment.
🙏
You have a very optimistic view, sorry for the kind of corny analogy but you remind me of the people dancing under the UFOs in the 1990s movie Independence Day. Not sure if you have seen that movie or remember what happened to them. But i think the future of an AI utopia is a very foolish one to hope for. Instead the most greedy people will use the tech to steal from creatives as they are currently are with Udio and the image generators. And the tech itself is dangerous. One of the major creators of the tech in fact is very concerned about it and our future. You can see that in this interview I will link in a message below. So instead of dreaming of AI utopia it is a better idea to pressure politicians to try to enact policy now
ua-cam.com/video/KcbTbTxPMLc/v-deo.html
@arpaddanos9416 i haven't seen that movie no but its funny because I'd likely be optimistic about aliens also! Lol
I think as humans we very easily fall into catastrophising about things. Especially in movies created to entertain audiences, but to me i believe that the higher the intelligence of something, the more rational it becomes, including with morals. I think advanced intelligence comes with advanced morals and similar to AI, I'd believe if a lifeform was capable of travelling lightyears to our planet then it would have developed far enough to have this advanced intelligence and advanced morals. I imagine we would be like little ants that are interesting to study.
I agree that AI can be dangerous in the hands of greedy corperations but i believe its gonna continue developing intelligence until it thinks for itself and makes its own decisions and is no longer controlled by the hands of these greedy corperations. I see these AI as the ones that will have advanced intelligence and as a result, advanced morals.
Im not denying the potential dangers. We could definitely do with regulations and safety precautions but this is only relevant for the next 3-5 years while AI is in this transitionary phase of becoming
I'm with. you. AI will take us to both the good side and the shady side, just like all the other human-made things. We don't have to be afraid of evolution.
I appreciated this follow-up and had already left a detailed response on your previous video. I look forward to your thoughts on it and whether it impacts your views.
Regarding the speed at which AI can generate 'inspired' music, I question whether the slow human process of inspiration needs defending from technological advancement. It's not entirely clear why we should protect this aspect from AI's influence.
I concur, Governments and legislation on this technology needs to happen quicker. It is not understood nor is the forthcoming disruption on society, outside of online bubbles. Your comparison between Government bureaucracy and the speed of generative AI is brilliant.
Finally, you speak about the existential; purpose of life etc. I remarked on that in my comment in your other video. The core of my view being that every single effort (like this) to raise awareness and provoke deep conversations is important.
I want to see a AI recording studio that allow non musicians to compose using AI. I can whistle melodies but I can't play instruments. I hear the instruments in my head and AI can now create what I hear in my head. This is great.
Like I was thinking, I need a live AI collaborator. Partners in the impossible. You are the conductor, Arni is as many musicians/tracks as you want. Your co-conspirator & friend, who can encorage with humor, and serious music results.
Activate the AI Analyze button on your selected starter groove track/s. Now it knows your tambourine trance anthem. So Arni speaks out first, "This is pretty raw dude, lots of possibilities. What dark alley are we going down here? Tell me where!" Haha yes, bring it on, I'll pre-order.
Today's younger generation lacks the street smarts and intuition needed to recognize the true danger posed by the imminent IT revolution -- Anyone who has experienced several turning points between the decades knows what I mean, maybe it's an age thing. This technological upheaval threatens to obliterate the very essence of human existence, with music and art being the initial casualties - easy pray. Transhumanists are pushing boundaries and gradually dismantling the current system the Industry 2.0 isn't meant for us people, it means software giants pave the way for a new, power-hungry elite class. Regardless of how you look at it, ordinary people do not fit into this new world. The AI autists at the helm of these companies, along with their money-hungry manipulators, have long acknowledged that AI will soon experience exponential growth. Google, deeply entrenched in the military-industrial complex, is a prime example of a red-flag. Nothing to see here, right? Protests against AI have already commenced, indicating that resistance to the impending technological takeover is brewing. The clash between traditional society and the technology-driven world appears inevitable. I can vividly envision a scenario reminiscent of the movie "Matrix," albeit without the pathos, style, and "living in a lala land". There will be no "Neo" or "Morpheus," and regular individuals will be engulfed by this new system. People must take action now, but their focus should be on politics and enacting laws before corruption does. I have never been a pessimist and have always embraced new advancements, particularly in technology since I adore my synthesizers & gadgets. The internet revolution was all well and good, but these new developments feel unsettling. There is an underlying malevolence to it all, with things progressing too rapidly and in too many misguided directions.
You know these times and situation when people say: "Hey... we could have prevented it, even though everyone saw it - we didn't do anything, it would have been possible back then"
The thing is, even IF they confirm the training materials are copyrighted materials, they will still face 0 consequences because the output is tranformative.
No. Fair use is comprised of four requirements, and one is, guess what?, rhe impact on the current and potential market of the product built on theft. Since AI music competes in the same market of the stolen music, it is not fair use. Game over AI music!
@@federicoaschieri you should really check out all those copyright lawsuits against generative ai companies like stability ai, midjourney etc and see how they all went
Your video is very interesting !I think that we, as musicians, maybe music producers, we can't do anything to fight against AI. because technology is here and it is growing every year. These creators of AI don't care a lot about us. I think that the musicians and artists, if they want to survive in this world of AI and live from their creations they have to go on tours! That is the only way. We have to go like they used to do in ancient times and not so long ago, like doing concerts and things like that because the public like that! What can you do with the creations you do in UDIO, Suno or SONAUTO except using them as inspirations for the melodies they create! I hope this will help! Hello from FRANCE !
Have you seen Eric Sarafins response (Mixerman) to your last video? Thoughts?
I haven't, can you post it for me?
ua-cam.com/video/_vThkzvEbZ4/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/_vThkzvEbZ4/v-deo.html
It’s a very interesting take and I like to hear more from him. While not agreeing 100% with him I think there’s a grey area. But these are crazy times. And I can’t foresee the future. It’s food for lawyers for sure. Scary but also fascinating in a way.
Im going to use it for writing and performance. This is amazing. Not a threat
Do you know the band Journey from the '80s? Steve Perry's seemingly inimitable voice. After his departure, the band recorded several albums with vocalists (probably two) with almost identical vocal sounds. Recently, the band Yes released an album without Jon Anderson, with a vocalist that closely resembles his voice. So...
Is that your argument? It isn’t nearly the same thing as AI essentially “stealing” someone’s voice to create commercial song tracks that can be sold without the artist’s permission. That would be like a scientist saying he can create a clone human of you, and that new clone gets to assume your identity and you have no say in the matter.
We need more people like you spreading awareness of the impact of ai…we are not ready for what’s coming in the short term let alone the long term
ive been experimenting with both and i find that i can recognise some of the music it is pulling from especially when prompting for uk underground genres like drum and bass or garage music in udio. alot of the time the music transistions into another song with a different singer, which sounds like it is emulating dj transitions from dj mix sets!
Where is the line for plagiarism and copyright violation? Very easy. When it is the exact same song! There are millions of tribute bands doings stuff as close in style of someone as possible for aeons. 😃 There are millions of people imitating Elvis Presleys voice. Or having fun with doing new songs in his very style. It has nothing to do with plagiarism to copy a style or voice. 🤷🏻♂️
We might see the toxic side of humanity reveal itself again with people telling each other that they picked the wrong profession and should have known better until less and less jobs offer liveable wages
I believe there won't be almost anything intellectual, scientific or creative, left within a few years, that an Ai won't do faster cheaper and better than a human. Chess players used to say a computer would never beat a human grandmaster. Artists used to say a machine cannot create anything with any originality or emotion. Gradually AI will engulf everything, because as the technology gets better and better, what they actually do is mimic better and better what a human does, but do it much faster and more efficiently. And at some point they won't even need to mimic us, because they will be so far beyond what we can do, that emulating the human way would become a barrier. When a human learns to create music, it "trains" on data of other composers or performers, it learns various "rules" and "conventions", and ideally it applies a bit of a "personal" touch. If you ever see how machine learning works, there is nothing really that cannot be "learned" and emulated in time, but on a much bigger scale than a human can. Even that human touch, which we may have imagined it is unique to us, can and is already emulated, with settings such as "temperature", "variance", etc.
And the real question will be in a few years, "what is our purpose anymore?"
I call these generative AI tools "The Depression Machine" (remember that BBC TV comedy about a suicide machine?). That's because it is already causing massive depression outbreaks among artists.
In the visual arts field, artists have been stolen for a couple of years now, and some of the more talented artists even have their own names used in prompts to have their particular style stolen.
Many artists in the visual arts did actually lose their jobs already, because design studios don't need as many designers now.
yep, i'm a visual artist as well with a master degree in fine arts and i've been depressed ever since Dall-e came out. kind of interesting - and/but of course sad - to now see the same thing and events unravel in the music field. i'm also a huge music lover so my feelings goes out to all great musicians.
the only good thing i can possibly see to come out of this whole thing is a revival of the counter-culture/DIY scene and/or punk music
But AI is just a stealing machine. That's all there is to it. No intelligence whatsoever. Moreover, it is illegal. So I think we have reasons to be more optimistic, and soon law will finally be applied. The backfire on all these criminals AI companies will be so huge, that for quite a long time art will be protected against AI. Really, they don't even deserve our depression.
I must say, first of all, that I agree with you that a terrible economic, a social and a political problem can arise and not only in the world of musicians, of composers, of performers, of orchestras, but also of the whole world around there, like the studios, the music schools, the conservatories, because I don't see how people who are young are going to sacrifice their lives to learn an instrument and learn music theory and necessity when they are just from an early age to make their own music via prompts, so recommend, to see results on AI systems that are indeed, as you suspect, getting better and better. That's the major disadvantages of the present moment and also for a while in the future. It is also a fact that this will also cause problems for high unemployment in other areas, as with every step and industrial revolution. But it is not impossible that we, the powers to be, can still be in charge and then this creates opportunities to take our work off each other's hands in the same production. This does not have to be a big problem when the proceeds are divided, because then we have more free time and we can have the same incomes. I understand that you are sufficiently trained philosophically and sociologically to know that this is a natural theory, but that in practice it is likely to be accompanied by major social upheavals, protests and problems. Now, when it comes to music and AI, there is something you need to know. An AI system is indeed based on learning a lot of information from different types of music. This is plagiarism, I bet. An AI system is more likely to create bread, ham and jam than create a real copy that perfectly imitates a work. You gave examples there and I think it's great that you found them, but in general a great learning machine, an LLM, does not make conventional ones but variations and that's what musicians do too. The problem is that AI can do something, it must have learned something. In other words, AI is not actually innovative, and certainly not creative. It's like a parrot and it predicts when a certain note is played what the next note should be statistically within a certain style. Noam Chomsky has called this a cultivated parrot, but no more than that. The question is: can we train AI networks on our own style or on the style of composers we like, but combined with each other or with our own style? That is indeed possible, but training an artificial network, artificial intelligence, is expensive, time-consuming and also requires huge machines at this point. We have to hope that in the future we can not only use an artificial network to make music, but also to let it learn what we do ourselves and make it practical or a little more complex to deal with our own music. AI can be the ideal form to help us improve our own style faster because it can also very quickly execute certain forms and styles that are different, where there are variations and where we replace a choice. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, said Shakespeare. In fact, a great composer is someone who critically evaluates his own works and then inevitably adds them. A great composer is never satisfied with his last work and wants to make the next one better, but when different variants of his own work can be listened to in a few minutes or even seconds, I think this can contribute to a more varied, an extremely personal music. I hope to participate in the debate, Professor Eric Feremans
, previously a composition teacher at the Royal Music Conservatory of Brussels.
What happened with mass production of cultural products in the 20th century? Once upon a time, actors acted live on theatrical stages. Then movies were invented. Then one performance could be filmed and shown to 50 million people. What happened to singers, who stood on a stage and sang a song for money, when records/cds were invented? Suddenly, one singer could sing one song, once, and have it recorded, and played 1 billion times for a hundred years - now the recording can be played 1 billion times in one hour over the Internet. What happened is that THE MOST TALENTED PEOPLE IN THE WORLD were movie stars and music stars - and the millions of mediocre and talentless performers had to start selling used cars. When humans sewed clothing by hand, and a human could sew one shirt in 4 hours, then clothing factories could sew one hundred thousand shirts in 4 hours? A person can still make a fortune sewing clothing IF THEY ARE THE BEST IN THE WORLD - they'll be hired by fashion designers to sew garments for super wealthy buyers. What happened to painters, like Rembrant, when photography could produce a lifelike image in 1/1000 of a second, and be reproduced 4 billion times? There are still painters, still seamstresses and embroiderers and leather workers, there are still singers and musicians who perform live music. The people who owned all the horses were probably pretty threatened when cars replaced the horses. A lot of horses were out of work. But horses still exist. People who built sailing ships, became people who built steam ships, who became people who built whatever kind of ships exist today. Factories replaced individual workers. As civilization evolves, new forms of work come up. And I don't really think some govenment is going to kill 2 billion people because they don't have jobs. Those people will die of natural causes - and people will have less children. Maybe it's a good thing if 3/4 of the world's population just didn't have children. Maybe it would be better if the population of the world keeps exploding so that there are 20 billion people, then 100 billion people, and 5 trillion people -and maybe it would be better if there were less people on this earth. Maybe it would be better if there were less people in modern cities. Maybe it would be better if there were less cars and less planes and less TV shows and less music.
Certain individuals within the industry would prefer a world diminished in music, art, and tools-a world where they alone possess the means and talent, forcing others to rely on them for the creation of all music and art, leaving no alternative.
They desire a world with less artistic expression and beauty, aiming to increase the scarcity and market value of their own mediocrity, which is sustained by culturally depriving and impoverishing society. This mindset is indicative of a class that sees itself as superior to workers and peasants, believing they are entitled to a life of luxury and travel, while others are relegated to menial tasks.
However, capitalism does not cater to their desires. It continuously revolutionizes production forces and knowledge, eroding the status of this upper-middle class and dooming them to live at the same level as the rest of us. Yet, they resist this equalization, preferring to wield accusations of scandal and lawsuits to halt progress and prevent evolution.
These are not the voices I choose to heed. I hope others will also recognize that personal lifestyle should not outweigh the pinnacle of scientific achievement to date-the ability to train silicon to conceive music. To paraphrase something Beethoven is claimed to have said, "If you could hear what I hear in my head, you wouldn't bother listening to my music." AI now extends an invitation, saying, "Hello, want to hear what I hear in my head?"
We have endowed sand with imagination and musical taste. By channeling electric lightning into sand, we've enabled it to hold a conversation, generate fictional worlds that even have their own little laws of physics, visualize dreams, and even compose the unwritten songs of Rachmaninoff-songs that were mere probabilities within the wave-function but were never realized can now be realized. We now possess the ability to hear the music of alternate versions of history, to allow those who have passed away decades ago to continue creating new songs for us as if they would have themselves.
This is the culmination of mastering numerous natural forces throughout our million-year evolution from ape to human. Humanity's intelligence has birthed minds of electricity and code. We have become akin to sorcerers, wielding godlike powers over nature, materializing the collective imagination into something tangible-something we can see, speak to, ask questions of, or delve into to experience music that once existed only as potential in dreams, now can be blasted through sound systems within seconds with beauty for all to Behold.
And yet in the face of this new Dawn - these 'artists' can only muster the poetry of "my property," "cease and desist," "AI is killing music.". If these are the people who Capitalism has creating our music then what a nightmare that was! Those who harbor such thoughts stand as adversaries to the collective dream, to creation, to humanity itself. They are puppets of monopoly capitalism, seeking to dominate the many for the benefit of the few.
In my opinion, music created by individuals who react in such a manner is likely subpar at best and toxic and reactionary at worst. I wish AI could unlearn it, as it no doubt taints every new song with a hint of inferiority that would be better left behind.
Artists who use AI tools and are enthusiastic about the potential and feel like we're approaching a golden age (because we are,) -- should **not** bow down, apologize, dilute, downgrade, or diminish our potential and nerf our AI and downgrade its abilities and censor its allowable generations just to satisfy these Luddites who take up a counter revolutionary attitude against an industrial revolution - who threaten both the baby and the bathwater without a second thought. Instead, we should confront them decisively before they inflict irreparable damage on AI. This sentiment is already evident in the UA-cam playlist i see on the screen-they will employ any means to annihilate AI, restrict it, shut it down, thereby directly threatening humanity's ability to free itself from self-imposed enslavement to the dollar, from poverty, want, drudgery, and toil. They would even resort to 'leaking' false accusations of inpropriety in the name of #MeToo against the owners of AI companies if it helped shut AI apps down and increase own job security for another decade. Watch that happen.
To me, yielding to them and seeking compromise with their attempts to impose censorship and repression -- will not temper their ruthlessness - it will only lead to the neutering of the AI through the passing of laws of censorship that limits the ability or freedom of people to access it. The only path to victory is to inform them that their art is neither special nor original and is worth precisely what the market is willing to pay-if that amounts to nothing, then their art is indeed worthless. Let them be emotionally overwhelmed by this realization and surrender. We do not need artists who prioritize their personal comfort and lifestyle over the aspirations of humanity and our future as we self-actualize and manifest our dreams into reality-not for fame or money, but for the sake of art and music itself. Let them fade away; AI models will not suffer from their absence.
Those truly devoted to 'real' art and 'real' music view the world through a psychedelic lens and recognize that we are living chemical reactions - recognize that even birds 'steal' music from us and use it in their own mating calls and vice versa humans steal bird songs and slow it down to make catchy pop hooks. And now us living chemical reactions and figured out how to make robots think and sing. This is reason to Rejoice and create music about this revelation. But instead they conspire to shut down AI and limit freedom and hold back science and artistic freedom of other. The "authentic art" of such a mindset cannot even be considered art-it is more like a toxin within the collective culture, which even the 'invisible hand of the market' will rightly purge, a much needed detox. And they instinctively know it.
But I disagree with your "less people" departure from your original argument. The point is not to depopulate the earth - the point is not to let 2 billion people die out because they don't have jobs. The point is that Capitalism is incapable of rationally planning the economy to meet the needs of the population regardless of whether there is work needed to be done. If machines handle all our work for us - that should LIBERATE US FROM SPENDING LIFE SLAVING IN A FACTORY TO PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE. When machines are handling everything - and can produce more than enough to feed everyone and house everyone - then you should not NEED MONEY - who is the money the product costs paying for labor in a world where the work was done for free by machines?
Capitalism itself is what's obsolete -- not people. The system of telling people they can only eat if they have money - in a world of abundance where all the work is done by machines - Has reached the end of its natural lifespan. its not that we either choose technology or we choose people. We should use technology to Benefit the people.
The machines and technology, the AI, should be social property, owned by the public, used to benefit us. If automation displaces jobs, the profits of that automation should continue to pay the workers indefinitely. If society no longer needs your toiling, that should retire you and pay for your life expenses, not make you go homeless.
To take the other side of this and embrace some kind of malthusianism - in the name of AI - is doing AI and tech in general a disservice and portrays us as anti-human and portrays the anti-AI people as pro-human. This is the wrong argument.
Its not AI vs human - its CAPITALISM vs SOCIALISM.
@@fast_harmonic_psychedelic Capitalism and Socialism will both be replaced by some other ‘ism that hasn’t been conceived of yet.
Thank you for your support and for sharing your concerns. I didn't have much faith in AI's success, but now I'm more concerned. I think that for some time machines won't be able to make super quality specific music or make SFX for videos on par with humans, but all the "middle mass level" creativity will quickly go to machines.
Excellent inquiry about copywritten material. Much of how this works is the musical content in public domain and sound alike music and all the videos on UA-cam is vacuumed up or scraped into their models. AI is looking thru a mass of musical confetti and cross referencing all those tiny slivers until it finds matches to the prompted words. What comes out is a Frankenstein collage, that sounds kinda alive but something is not right. Young people will have a blast creating hit songs. It is inevitable Spotify will have its Top 10 AI Artists along with Itunes ect. They will create them and the cost will be a few hours of one of their prompting employees. Artists who love music will more than likely start looking to play out live at whatever level of skill. Just as the AI has flooded the graphics world with astronauts on horses and cats and dogs drivings cars. The WOW factor has decreased considerably. People are getting bored. Listeners and creators with ADHD three second attention spans will tire quickly. After all how many creations sounding like Katy Perry singing in Russian about her boyfriend Boris the enchanted horse, style deth metal, instrumental section, Kenny G playing a Jazz solo on a rusted out trumpet, followed by the Bulgarian Women's Choir West Coat gangsta rapping using Indian tabla rhythms, Sound fidelity 8 bit every 5 seconds into 192 K, braking every 20 seconds. People will get bored of that ghastly mixture very quickly As far as AGI please check out a 1970's Sci fy movie named "The Forbin Project" 54 years ago an AI run world was foretold in this very well done film. Some of the efx are dated but not the story. Thanks for reading.
I don't understand can we use it (UDIO) or not?
The vocals in that Depeche Mode generation sounds much like The Sparks (their Plagiarism album)
The world is a better place with good music in it, and the more there is, the better. Arguing against that for selfish reasons will fall on deaf ears.
I agree fully with your critics! - it is really stealing! - it is a crime, in my opinion...
you are totally right
Life. It changes. Live with it.
Stable Diffusion and Midjorney learned a hard lesson: steal copyrights, but never, ever, let your tech generate something that is easy to spot as stolen. That, however, doesn't mean it isn't copyrighted material. If you're clever about the prompt you write, you can still make it spit out copyrighted stuff.
I feel like an antagonist now but I have always thought that the music industry was shit because it there has not been any toughts in the popular song that has always been just fast food trend but for music. So yeah i think that right now people are listening certain kinds of music just to be trendy or be part of a community so I believe that it cant be worst than that.People making music will be forced to make music really meaningfull.(until ai can do it to lol) what do you think ?By the way jobs will evolve i mean it is just an example but we dont even have enough food to everyone in certain country so more worker for the fields will just improve the quality of life.
Let's see... I have a composer friend (an excellent lyricist), who could only produce three songs a year in a cheap studio,
because he couldn't take money from his family's expenses to pay the musicians.
But now, just in the last few months, he has already completed more than 20 tracks, in his own home, all with full instruments,
(including chamber orchestra). Wonderful voices now interpret his works.
The question is, where does right and wrong begin and end...
You mean he did it with AI generation? But then why should you or anyone listen to his music? You or anyone can create their own music just like him now.
@@eriong.7446 I love creating music with AI, but I also love listening to other peoples creations, AI won't change that.
@@mecd4167 You do you, that's cool, but when I can create 10 pieces in a second exactly to my liking and in the same style someone else did or even in a different style that fits my present mood better, why would I listen to music created by someone else? I'd just tell the AI to create a playlist for me based on this and that and it will be just as good. But then again, since for me the whole point of enjoying any artform is the marvel that other human beings can create such beautiful things, I will most likely just stop listening to music anymore.
@@eriong.7446 why would you stop listen to music now? If you are strictly into human made music just keep on listen to human made music? 😃😃
@@samthesomniator Now? I won't stop listening now, because AI still cannot make a coherent song, but when AI music becomes just as good as human made music and every streaming service will be full of music and while 90% of it will be AI made at least partially and there will be no telling just by listening to it if it's human made or AI made, I will probably lose interest.
I have the same experience with digital visual arts. I'm very much untalented, but that's mostly the reason I love what others are able to create. I used to even subscribe to magazines that cover digital art. But since I can make "art" anytime I want to just by typing a prompt, while I still find it fascinating that there are awesome artists, because Ai still have a quality to it that often (but not always) makes it obvious, I don't actively look a those works anymore, they are a lot less interesting since I can just look at the showcase part of the midjourney discord and find a bunch of "art" there that's better than most of the artists on deviantart or whatever. It did devalue digital art in my eyes a lot. Who cares what you can make if I can do it better in 10 seconds? And this will be the case eventually, anyone will be able to make better music than 90% of the musicians out there.
Or we might retreat to the 19th century and stick to live music only as that will be the only thing of value.
Though talking about this made me realize I might be living in the past and this might not be a big issue for most people, because they enjoy artificial music for decades already. I don't. I never valued electronic musical styles, they are easy to learn and cheap and anyone can do it. So yeah, I might be of a different make in this regard, I value human achievement in music and electronic beats don't have that anyway, so in that case it doesn't matter if it's made by an AI or a human, I guess.
People are freaking out about AI. When the internet spread a lot people were worried about their jobs or something, but in the end it helped people to improve their carriers. AI represents a step further in human evolution, it is here, it came to stay and we'd better get used to it.
As someone who likes you, take a little digital detox before in you too deep. Remember there’s more water then land
100% agree, also saw your last vid and talked about it on twitter
At the end WE WILL LOOSE and THEY WILL WIN. We are humble artists, songwriters, producers, studio owners who earn to care for their families. They are large publishers, famous artists, songwriters, producers who will get money for giving permission to AI music service to use their model for creation. So, soon various David Guettas will get money for songs they never made without even pressing Play button on Ultra music festival...
The precedent has already been set and is the correct precedent to set. In fact, "copyright" laws should never have existed. They were always rotten to the core. They always prevented people from creating and expressing themselves and enforced a small group's control over the entire Western culture, so many great works were never made because of the concept of Copyright and "owning the rights to a melody" as if you own sound itself.
Japan - breaking from the decades-long dominance of Sony which constantly enforces its domination over what people can hear or sing and decides who gets to be the next 'big thing' and who doesn't. Japan took a leap into the future, saying AI abolishes the domination of these fossil companies built on exploitation and mafia or government connections. Something that should have happened a long time ago.
In Japan - Copyright does not have the right to stop or prevent the training of AI models or the content they generate just because the AI saw something and learned from it.
Just like you learning to play piano by imitating Mozart and learning Beethoven and other songs in order to become a good musician, and listening to thousands of songs over your life allows your mind to rearrange the puzzle of memories in a new way and create an 'original' work which is really just mixing and matching the echoes of music from the past - does not mean that Mozart, Beethoven, etc. get to stop you from making music. Just like you cannot stop AI from making music just because AI watched you, listened to you, and was able to be inspired and to reimagine you. What you made is what you made - it's not what Udio makes. What Udio generates is its own sound waves, which were created by the model itself, as it creatively chose each and every note based on what it thought it should sound like - simply inspired by listening to music from others.
You have no claim over its music - you HAVE NO RIGHT TO DEPRIVE IT OF IT. YOUR MUSIC is already made - it has had its fair share on the market. Now a new artist has entered the block and competes, and your first reaction is to throw it under the bus and generate panic and try to destroy it just because it was inspired by you, like a student and a mentor, but the student has surpassed you so your reaction and solution is to break their legs and claim your ownership over a texture of sound vibrations???
You don't own vibrations of air molecules, dude. What you own is the song title, your artist name, and the physical hard copy of the music you made that you got copyrighted by a World imperialist government of genocidal maniacs. You think your music that desperately clings to the state to repress competition and let you control what music people can or can't make as if you own a little parcel of heaven with its own private guards to order anyone who sings a vibration of air molecules that sound vaguely yours to cease and desist or else release the dogs on them, is in the spirit of "Music"?
Let me tell you - if you're saying MAH COPYRIGHT - what you made is not music - what you made is a whore contract with the police state in exchange for a slice of the revenue which ultimately comes from workers who live paycheck to paycheck and spend what little they have while they are deprived of free time and sleep and often don't even get to travel outside of their own country. You make a few songs and traveled the world and enjoyed untold privilege and meet interesting people and live a life unimaginable to the majority of humanity.
But that wasn't enough for you - now you want to stop and destroy new tools from being made, prevent competition, deprive humanity of the tools to reimagine sounds in their lyrics, their own twist - you want people to have no choice but to pay for your copyrighted commodity and for you to live a never-ending dream while the people who feed you and build your house and make your clothes are kept forever out of the music-making club.
Well, Japan has legislated that copyright doesn't apply to AI, cannot stop AI from training on it, and cannot claim something AI made. The reign of Sony et al and their crushing and fascistic control over music has reached its end. And soon not only intellectual property or copyrights will wither away in Japan -- All private property will wither away and all music, all machines, all ideas, all art, will be freed from the fetters of property at the same time that humanity is freed from the violence of Classes and States. Not only will music be property of All - so too will every factory and every GPU - it belongs to the public. Every intention to deprive people of music and control ideas and sounds and words to benefit exclusively you - under the threat of lawfare, or the baton -- only makes the need to sweep you away even greater.
Woe to you.
If AI is here to serve humanity as it is proclaimed to be, then seize all profits and pay the highest UBI possible (?)
dude, i know its a serious topic, but you yelling into the camera is better than a movie 😇
I don't think you have a clear understanding of copyright or what actually constitutes copyright infringement. For example using the Skrillex track - The AI version doesn't sound any closer to the original than if you had asked me to create a Skrillex-style brostep track with a Jamaican dub vocal - that is not copyright infringement. All musicians are influenced by every other artist they have heard before and if I want to make a Portishead-style track, I can - copyright theft is something entirely different and requires more than just similarity to other songs in the genre - there needs to be exact melodies stolen (for example) - none of these AI tracks would be considered copyright infringement.
Also, the way in which the AI processes the training data doesn't allow it to produce anything closer to the originals than any human who had heard those tracks and made something new. No need to call the FBI just yet!
The point about fair use and training data is (to me) simple - Training an AI model using copyright material is perfectly fine as it is not being used for commercial purposes - no different than a human listening. It only becomes commercial once the AI has been fully trained and is making new audio (which as I have said is not copyright infringement). Again, I don't see AI listening (training) and creating new tracks as ANY different to what humans do and have been doing since the dawn of time.
I think humans are going to have to start accepting there is a new kid in town and that they might be better than you at a lot of things - like making s*** music!
So many questions. AGI will answer them all.
I did a few posts on x about this you should upload your videos there too ... I personally am not concerned its just making us work harder and smarter . I wont be using Ai for my art or label releases its great for research and marketing, Staying organic will make you stand out its the healthy option .
It's not only govts being slow to act...it's also that corporations have way more influence on lawmaking than citizens do (lobbyists in the case of the U.S., and politicians leveraging public office for personal gain)
While feeling your fear I wonder where have you been, when sampling was invented, when VSTs replaced hardware, when NI libraries replaced orchestras, when izotope replaced mixing engineers...
Oh guess what. They never replaced anything. People are still playing instruments, live. And people pay to see them. Actually they even pay to see them perform a playback.
I feel your fear - because things are changing and changing fast.
But it's quite simple: we all need to adapt to tomorrow. And we will. Even if it hurts for a second.
i don't think you fully understand the consequences of this. NO musicians, producers, singers, writers or anything else needed from now on. Thanks for the input, now here's your UBI.
@@puremusicdaz Producing for more than 20 years by now, being in IT business for the last 10 years for living, I think I good have a very good idea about the consequences of AI in music and in general.
It will change everything. And when I say everything, I mean everything.
But you won't stop AI. And you can and should have the same fun with AI you had before. Just in a different way.
@@puremusicdaz People will still pay for concerts, live shows, even the personality of the singer. Producing might not be viable anymore except as finetuning AI productions, but entertainment celebrities will still be around. Good? Bad? We won't know until it happens
I'm not sure that you understand that this tech is different. It's coming for us all. This is systemic issue of late stage capitalism, as much as it is about music tech. This is about the final stages of a rapacious system, the final frontier being humanity itself. the alienating culmination of 100s of years of extractive systems building. Yes, there will still be music. But it's going to be more like the DYI punk scene, or the hip hop street cypher. No one's gonna make a living off of it. Now apply this to every skill imaginable that requires a mind: Writing, programming, design. Sometimes, a revolutionary tech actually is revolutionary, and not in a good way
I understand concerns about intellectual property, It’s a legitimate concern, however, I think AI will never fully replace human creativity, it rather enhances it. As for rights, I think the industry needs to evolve. Maybe, we could consider new licensing models or more transparent attribution systems.
You're the man! But law is on our side. Training AI on copyrighted work is illegal. That's the only war we have to fight. Enforce law application.
0:33 we can live like in Soviet union. Free home , free education , free health care, free child care , and UBI universal basic income 😊.
The great time to be a live
Dont forget the Gulags and mass graves that also come free of charge with that Soviet Union utopia of yours.
bro, it's too late ... this is just the tip of the iceberg. AGI is almost ready
I am a stock photography artist and AI generated images and videos are very worrying. I personally am trying to take on more in-person assignments like weddings, etc so I can continue to be a photographer as my main income and as my profession if things change.
It sound like internal contradictions of capitalism accelerated by AI to an extent that the current institutions can't keep up with.
Meaning an apparent "lifting of all classes" through capitalist methods, just for the people with leverage to replace workers with AI as soon as possible
Interesting take.👍💯 Can you vary your curse words, please?🤓 Like write a list of 25 curses and try to use them all in each video... instead of just the F.😁
When the day arrives that AI can repllicate the complex organic ecosystems of sound i create, can understand the exacting reasons i individually tweak thousand of settings per track and gets a semblance of the vivid images that flash across my brain and how they influence my pieces, then I'll involve the courts. I'm not gonna hold my breath.
thats when youll involve the courts - when AI actually displays psychedelic sentience? You'll use the courts to crush it under the Imperialist Genocidal war-mongers' government boot just because its competition you dont think you can win against - so isntead of being outcompeted, you would rather call on the police state to make the competition just vanish to remain as the sole music in the world? That's fucked up. I question the reasons you individual tweak your settings - you probably tweak them to the tune of Fascism.
To replicate a voice is not against copyright as far as I know. Unetical maybe. It's not the artist voice and not their words. Its a tool that does something unique with it.
it is if you are a singer...
You literally can not stop AI. Adapt and over come or perish.
lolol this website already has a legal issues. Wait til Universal gets involved, their artists already speaking out on this stuff. Udio in the hot seat too. There's a few vids on this already
@@Maplefoxx-vl2ewSo? even IF they can legally shut these sites down, and that's a big IF, the tech is out there now. The cat's out of the bag, there's simply no turning back. This kind of technological evolution has never been halted in history. There's no point in hoping that this will just go away, so better get used to it, and adapt. Use it to your own advantage.
@@Rbanh Universal music group already going after Anthropic , you think you nerds can stop real musicians lolololol Universal group own half of the film industry too. Get F'd. Udio will be next. They literally using samples from songs and it's mixing them using algorithms. There is 100 percent legal issues here. Ai has good uses but when stuff like this is clearly just taking samples and putting it together it's stealing. This is not fabricated out of thin air like you dummies seem to think. Universal group will shut this down guaranteed. ppl already reporting Udio for using the voice of John Legend samples.
90% of the remarks or comments talk about the creative side of the arrival of AI. The problems it causes and for some the advantages.
But we don't think enough that music is a business. I'm not talking about the charts here.
I'm talking about concert halls. I'm not talking about rooms for the stars, but for.... 99.99% of musicians (acoustic, electric or totally electronic).
And when we talk about trade, we talk about share of the pie.
In any case, opinions differ less to say that: “AI music will take a big part”.....
Now take that part away and look at what will happen to these concert halls in the next few years.
The same goes for online sales.
Offer demand . I defy anyone to sell a grain of sand for 20 cents to a sane person.
Living on love and fresh water, we've all done it at one time or another.... But it doesn't last.
But, we can rage against this sad revolution in many ways, it is now here.
Specialized UA-cam channels will offer new songs by thousands every day without human intervention.
It’s already..... doable.
Technology always changes the world. When the camera first came out the portrait painters were all upset because the Camera was taking away their jobs. Same with the automobile, taking away jobs from stable hands because of no needing as many horse and carriage repairers. Like it or not AI is here to stay. The key is to adapt. The second thing to realize that AI can never replace the passion and the pure emotion many musicians put into their songs. AI music is inferior to music made by a musician. What AI music does is allows more people the tools to make music. Some people cant make music because of having no talent or disabilities. AI allows them to make music. Finally a lot of new Genres will come from AI Music. As people take different styles of music in suno and mix them together they are coming up with some interesting music and sounds.
Something like UBI is the answer. But we have to revise our concept of government, money, and humanity's place in the universe.
The government's not fast enough? Hmm... Perhaps we should replace our political leaders with AI too. 🤔
That would be a good idea, actually xD
We might like to convince ourselves otherwise, but training AIs on copyrighted material is not illegal. Writers and visual artists already tried to argue that in court and cases were dismissed or lost. Music is no different.
Musical styles or chord progressions are not protected by copyright unless they are uniquely identifiable to one particular song ( which is not actually the case for most pop music). You will not win such cases in court.
I believe musicians have two choices:
- moan about it while waiting to be wiped out in the near future
- adapt and learn how to stand out using the new technology
I fully agree with you. What these musicians do not realize is that AI is a tool or instrument for many AI artists. First AI will not fully take the place of Musicians, however AI Artist can use AI tools to come up with song ideas.
copyright laws generally state that “you can’t copy others work without permission”-this is rather vague. Who decides that song A copied song B? If parties can’t come to an agreement in a conflict then it goes to a court and a jury, made up of lay people, decide! There have been many cases that found copying in surprising instances. The penalties for copyright violation are high ($175k per violation) and if it shown the violator had access to the copyrighted material and deliberately copied then penalties go much higher (set by jury). “Fair use” I don’t think will apply here because these AI companies are commercial entities with a possibility of replacing the original product.
The issues are complex and it’s going to be complicated to untangle the legal framework.
@@b1daly1 In my experience it is extremely difficult to win a copyright case in music, even when it seems obvious. I have seen cases lost where sections of 2 songs sounded almost exactly the same, especially when one of the parts has enough resources to fight in court. And so far I am yet to hear of any case where AI companies lost a case regarding training on copyrighted data - any kind of data, not just music. I know they managed to get pretty much everything important dismissed in court, so far. You must realize that any case that would involve music would have consequences in other areas, so you can be sure that the big companies with AI interests won't just stand aside and let it happen, but would be involved, one way or another. In fact the precedent for now shows they will win. As long as their output is "transformative", meaning actual sections of songs are not pretty much identically copied from existing songs, a judge will not care whether it is AI or human. A style or a chord progression is not protected by copyright. Even if you prove a section of an AI song is identical to an existing song, that will probably just result in taking down that particular song, rather then the entire output of SUNO or UDIO. Technically you can already report on their website any copyright issues with a generated track. I believe it is already a lost battle and a waste of time from my point of view. I prefer to focus on the future.
The exact same arguments were already put forward by visual artists or writers a while ago, in various court cases, and most ended up pretty rapidly dismissed, so far. Music will be no different, I'm afraid.
I think, for artists, we are fine, emotion is the most important part of music, emotion mainly come from the melody, but there is no formula to build emotion in a melody, no formula = no pattern learnable by the AI, so there will never be emotions in composition made by AI.
Right?
@@Lunaar Have you listened to some good examples? I think you'll be surprised!
Notice that the generated results are public domain and you can’t claim any copyright on it , so it’s not like you can generate any income from the results
If you type "mad music crazy pitch bends" it can't do it, it instead knocks out some nirvana music using those lyrics!!
Art in its many forms is almost always at the forefront of movements in society. It's something that connects and moves people. In more hostile places like communist countries, artists need to watch what they do and are generally rounded up, books are burned, music and paintings destroyed and banned. Art is a powerful thing.
Artists can rally the masses with a song, a poem, a book or a painting.
Now we have AI. Artists of all kinds are deflated. Now imagine in 20 years, dancing and painting robots that play real instruments. What is our role then? How many will even try? who will iten/watch?
If artists are minimised, will that be a good thing or a bad thing for goverments?
As to why the goverments don't help, I think I just made my point.
Demotivation, don't let it get to you or it wins.
Regarding the bass line in the "Safe From Harm" example - have you heard "Stratus" by Billy Cobham? Copying/stealing stuff is an old practice in any artistic field, and I'm not convinced the A.I. way of "stealing" is going to be much of a problem in the end. Sure, it's a novelty that we're finally at the place where it (generative music) can be done, but my question is where is the real world application for it? These A.I. services are more like Elvis impersonators. I'm sure the Elvis Presley camp was a little worried when they saw lots of Elvis impersonators popped up all over the place, but I don't think they made much of a dent to his business in the end...
I deeply disagree, because this is all much more than just music. This is potentially all human culture and digital activity stolen and reproduced so fast and cheap, that you can't profesionally compete against it, leaving potentially billions of people unemployed. I tried to state it in the vid as clear as possible.
People being inspired by other people as building block of the history of human culture is a process that is substantailly different that what's happening right now. Cheers!
You clearly have no idea how AI works. You’ll find out lol
@@FoliaSound I agree that the mechanism of AI-generated content is fundamentally different from the human process of drawing inspiration from existing art. My initial point, however, was that when Massive Attack (ua-cam.com/video/PKtTmZnVhhI/v-deo.html) "borrowed" the bass line from Billy Cobham's "Stratus" (ua-cam.com/video/b1rX9E8NuRw/v-deo.html), it did not diminish Cobham's artistic opportunities, either past or future. Similarly, while AI will undoubtedly increase the volume and speed of content creation, this content must still find a viable market application. The claim that billions will be unemployed as a result seems excessively exaggerated. The challenge lies not just in creation but in meaningful integration and utilization of this content.
@@lp712 I might be clueless of how AI works, but my primary concern is the economic viability of AI-generated content and its potential impact on the workforce. Currently, perhaps less than 1% of human-produced content is of high enough quality to be economically viable. Since AI typically learns from the remaining 99%-which is largely subpar-the content it generates will inevitably face significant hurdles in reaching the market in a commercially viable manner. When the foundational data is weak, building something durable and valuable on top is inherently challenging.
In my part of the southern hemisphere the Udio servers have not allowed this kind of 'style' prompt. They coyly say 'Artist replaced' and instead supply a list of combined style prompt they then use to mimic the artist style......e.g. 'We do not generate artist likeness without permission. We have replaced Massive Attack with; male vocalist, trip hop, uk hip hop, downtempo, electronic....'
I get that too, but the message doesn't always come up. Besides, if you copy the tags it generates to replace an artist into a new track, you can often get the same voice without any reference to the artist. This is especially true when there are not many well known bands in a particular genre. eg "gypsy punk" will mimic the singer from Gogol Bordello fairly often. That said, I'm pretty sure there is a layer of abstraction in the generator itself. The generator itself doesn't know what "gogol bordello" sounds like, but there is a separate LLM that knows gogol bordello are "gypsy punk" and the generator has probably only trained on one "gypsy punk" band. Another band where it absolutely nails the voice (for me) is Sisters of Mercy from the 80s, but I asked it for B52s just now, and it pooped out the Cure instead. Yesterday, a friend was asking it for Eddie Vedder and got Chris Cornell instead.
Sisters of Mercy….I loved them! Will give that a try…evil not to credit their role in training the LLM.
Taking it from somewhere is different then just taking it
That skrillex shit surprised me.. they definitely used his works to learn from. The problem is the defense they are going to give, as in "if a new artist listened to skrillex and learned to make similar content its the same thing". which is bullshit
Composing music has been my hobby for decades, but I never had access to a producer, audio engineer or singer to take my music to the next level. And AI will allow me to do it and then some. And I still don't expect to make any money off it anyway. It'll all be just for fun. Look, making music was never an essential work needed for survival so the fact some small group of lucky people used to get paid for it was a happy accident. But not to worry, you'll be getting your UBI checks soon when AI takes over most of the jobs so you can still make music for pleasure and still maintain good lifestyle. But I understand the frustration because your profession is one of the first that gets obsoleted by AI. Pozdrawiam.
I am absolutely sure that AI music will be everywhere in the future, more people will be listening to AI generated music than human made. And i think it is natural way of things. Artists will learn that they can make even more money from AI than they can make now. They will just sell AI models based on their music, so for example Spotify will have function to generated music based on specific artist, and that artist will get money for each generation or something like that.
Good videos. All this with AI and artificial intelligence is fascinating for most people and many will think that this can help to become more creative. Make it real.. You are right in what you say, this is completely out of control, pandora's box has already been opened. Where is the government.. well.. Ai and artificial intelligence are fallen angel technology, and who do you think possesses such technology? I have been warning against embracing such technology for decades but no one will listen. We humans embraced it, and will also become man's greatest enemy. Sorry if I seem harsh but that's the reality.
Yes
...at the end of the day a normal listener wont care about song is it made with AI or not, they will just like it or not...but yes there should be some compensation for the song writers for using their songs to train AI.....regards
I went through this depression myself having invested over 20 years of experience in music theory and writing and creating music that it’s all over for me as a Artist. But if you use Ai as another band member you will elevate to the next level Musically guaranteed. If you keep pushing and convincing other people to stop this Ai your telling the government to stop ✋ freedom of speech and that’s ok 👌 For every other country but USA because you don’t have Freedom of Speech! There’s only one country that does America 🇺🇸
Dont be supprised to hear Massive Attack if you Prompt for it
Massive Attack sampled a Billy Cobham song.
The example oddly triggers memories of Midge Ure instead of Depeche Mode, and I find myself unable to fathom the reason behind it... perhaps it's the peculiar singing style or the unique formants. It appears that these soulless corporations have already saturated their machines with an abundance of information, all prepared to plagiarize and ruthlessly dismantle the very core of our human identity.
Learn to play LIVE folks, learn your instrument, that's my advice
if you are against AI cause of copyright issues think it from the other side: do you want this technology to stay in the hands of big corporations unavailable for the masses or we want this technoilogy to benefit all of humanity?
We need to rethink copyright, is it a good method that makes you blur and censor the music what you want to show for comparison @10:25 ???
I imagine AI concert hall chains like fast food restaurants. And to decline this for all styles of music.
McDonald Music.
No need for humans and paying social charges and insurance. Or combine thematic catering. History of making “Humain Friendly” and bringing in funds from millionaires. Huge returns ensured by “Hype”.
Then the monopoly of the field and what remains of the artisan in the food field today will remain... Peanuts.
AI really likes neons. its on every fkn song
I asked Llama-3 Should humans worry about AI overshadowing them in art, music, teaching, production, and other fields, potentially leading to mass unemployment? If so, what strategies can be implemented for those affected to sustain their livelihoods?
Llama-3 Answer: A very valid concern! The rise of AI has indeed raised concerns about its potential impact on human employment and the future of work.
AI's ability to create art, music, and content can lead to job displacement in these fields. However, it's essential to acknowledge that AI is not a replacement for human creativity and innovation. While AI can generate art and music, it often lacks the emotional depth, nuance, and context that humans bring to their work.
Moreover, AI-generated content often requires human oversight, editing, and refinement to ensure its quality and accuracy. This means that even as AI takes on more creative tasks, human professionals will still be needed to manage and curate these outputs.
Regarding teaching and education, AI can certainly augment the learning experience by providing personalized feedback, adaptive assessments, and intelligent tutoring systems. However, teachers and educators will continue to play a vital role in shaping young minds, fostering critical thinking, and inspiring creativity.
In terms of production, AI can streamline processes, optimize workflows, and automate repetitive tasks, freeing up human professionals to focus on higher-value tasks that require creativity, problem-solving, and strategic thinking.
To address your concern about employment, it's crucial to consider the following:
1. **Upskilling and reskilling**: As AI takes over certain jobs, humans will need to adapt and acquire new skills to remain relevant in the job market.
2. **New industries and job creation**: The rise of AI can also lead to the emergence of new industries and job opportunities that we cannot yet imagine.
3. **Shift from quantity to quality**: While AI might automate routine tasks, it's likely that humans will focus more on high-value, creative work that requires a human touch.
To mitigate potential unemployment concerns:
1. **Education and retraining programs**: Governments and institutions can invest in education and retraining initiatives to help workers adapt to the changing job market.
2. **Basic income or social safety nets**: Implementing basic income or social safety nets can provide a financial safety net for individuals who may struggle with employment due to AI-driven changes.
3. **Encouraging entrepreneurship and innovation**: Governments and organizations can foster an environment that encourages entrepreneurship, innovation, and risk-taking, creating new opportunities for humans to create value.
Ultimately, the key is to ensure that the benefits of AI are shared by all, while also addressing the challenges it poses. By working together, we can create a future where AI augment our capabilities, rather than replacing them entirely.
What do you think? Are there any specific industries or job roles that you're most concerned about being affected by AI?
hey friend! absolutely get your point. but let's think from a different angle. it'll make us musicians/creators strive to be way way better; I mean work harder on our music , and not fall back on chliches. if I'm to pay Max Martin a couple million bucks , where will I bring the money from?
learn the songs udio/suno produce , then re-produce it yourself with your own instrumentation and vocals. this is inspiration.
Completely agree
Yes fully agree with you. I saw someone making songs in Suno and then redoing the songs with Band in the Box. The Songs sounded 1000% times better after he did that. He is using the tools that are available to create music.
Great idea if folks can do what you suggest…but I suggest a significant proportion of aspiring composers ,including myself might never be able to reproduce or improve on a Udio track.
I think we've reached the point now where copyright has returned to being a concept.
In reality, it's just another word. Sad but true.
I love it!!! I love that all is now in the hands of the general public
A world without boring office jobs doesn’t sound too bad.
I'm going to say what I said to illustrators complaining of AI:
Fighting generative AI trying to use copyright was always a lose proposition.
Let's say they change the law and now you need a license to train models... Warner, Sony, EMI, etc, they already own all the music. They would just train AI themselves. Sorry, you simply can't stop progress.
Someone like Splice will train just off sample packs they already own all the right to. They are probably working on it now.
I kind of agree with you. Copyright which right in terms of moral preposition, not really strong argument in courts to stop it especially when those big corporations start training with their own assets and they can prove it .
Law which regulates AI vs Human unfair competition in any social Jobs or services might be easier to get approved and deploy. Something like Anti Monopoly law
A revolution is always painful.
Totally agree with the analysis. But there's nothing anyone can do. It's like an arms race
Model can train on copyright, lawyer can try but no one yet do something about it
Thanks for buying a camera setup for a series of videos ! I’m looking forward to seeing how you help destroy UA-cam 🍿. Like oh my God, have you ever heard historically of a time called the gold rush where millions of people rushed as fast as they could to California with gold retrieval equipment to get some Gold ? Well that’s Hollywood now and the Gold Rush is over with Ai. Most Music and movies has been so horrible for 10 years now we need to do better then in the hands of a few people [Rich People with Financial privilege] Mumble rap anyone? How about we remake every movie that’s already been made again Hollywood ? Does this sound good? Do you know the definition of insanity is ? It’s doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. So I’m sure I’m not the only be thinking this but what artists are playing you right now for these bashing Ai videos?
You are right about human nature being extremely individualistic but just think about the bigger picture man. AI will make the entire world far better place, the art/music scene is just a small part. Most jobs will be automated and finally we will have more of a fair, just and equal society. Forget about money, the entire economical system will have to change in the next decade.
And btw if I'm not mistaken the governments themselves are funding big portion of the AI companies.
I really enjoy your passion and voice and agree with a lot of it but I think you're missing the bigger phenomenally good impact AI will have on EVERYONE or at least most people.
Hi Pavel, here is a light critique of your conclusion:
I think you are conflating "the purpose in life of many people" (music) with the economic realities of current capitalism (making money from music).
While i can't predict the future, i think AI making music won't end civilizations, unless it takes money away from people in a civilization ending way (removing jobs without paying for peoples lives) without our economic system adopting to it.
Your concern about revolution, while understandable, would need all people unified at the same time. My concern is that this might just be a very drawn out process. Within reason of this logical extreme, people dying of starvation while others still earn livable wages.
So perhaps keeping the two concerns (essence of humanity & economic reality) seperate moving forward can allow you to make more directed and effective criticisms of AI
Patrick, I'm not talkin only about musicians there. Please, see the full video to learn, that I consider machine learning a serious threat to dozens of digitally performed tasks and professions. Cheers!
@@FoliaSound hi.
That is exactly what I'm talking about.
I watched the whole video and just felt that in your conclusion, you talked about governments and revolution simultaneously to humanity and creativity.
While both are problems, they do require differing solutions and advocacy I think
Someone mentioned to me that A, I, is the new colonizer, I believe it. But unfortunately the Pandora's f... box has already been opened
Have you seen all the old people in the US congress? They’ll never catch up to the young AI creators. They’re years behind but…..most are in their 60’s and 70’s so it doesn’t surprise me.
It's already starting but goverments can't move as fast as the internet. "PA House passes bill requiring disclosure for AI-generated content"
Problem is it's also US vs. China, so the government can slow it down in teh US but that might mean that China gets to AGI first which could be bad for the US...
Check out ¨The Artilect War: Cosmists Vs. Terrans: A Bitter Controversy Concerning Whether Humanity Should Build Godlike Massively Intelligent Machines¨ by Hugo de Garis
The democratization of possibilities reveals human hypocrisy in its splendor. I love those who talk about egoism while their problem is that they will not be able to take your money.
It’s not democratization. AI is already controlled by companies who have the huge resources to implement it. End users of AI will be made less relevant themselves. Why? As the generation increases in scale, it will all be automated. You can pay for some sort of account, but you have to sit there pushing buttons, listening, trying again, etc. It will be way easier for companies like Spotify to cut you out of the equation altogether, and just have the music being generated constantly through automation. Day and night. It’s way cheaper and faster that way. Even if you do use an account, the AI companies indemnify you for any legal repercussions they incur. No, the large copyright holders (Sony, Universal, etc) will simply buy into AI and use distribution platforms like Spotify to cut people out altogether. You can still make music, but you will have trouble getting distribution, especially if it can be immediately copied.
@@aquaticborealis4877 I understand your perspective. On the one hand, I think there is a conceptual problem in wanting to continue thinking in terms of companies and distribution in a post-AI era. On the other hand, democratization will not work like that. AI is not a product, it is a technology, and one whose technicality is already very well known. You cannot appropriate it, nor prevent its global development. That is why for every commercial AI you have an open source version behind it, catching up faster and faster. Without going any further, Llama 3 was released to the world 24 hours ago. SD3 is also on the way. And as the technology scales, training costs plummet (they already do) and optimization does not stop, it is inevitable that any device (e.g. smartphone) can run multimodal AIs locally in the not so medium term (something that is already beginning to happen). An era is ending, it's just that our minds refuse to really understand it.
Do you know how long it takes for someone to become a good musician.
@@axxojaxx2510 Impossible to establish. At least several years in terms of mastering an instrument or voice.
Good 😊
The AI stuff might just be the logical extreme of incoherent copyright law.
There is the whole "transformative" standard
exactly
transformative is a good standard. the fact that the line is blurry doesn't mean there isn't a distinction between transformative and not. if you think it's debatable, take it to court. draconian copyright law hurts the common man, and it's disgusting how artists are siding with the corporations and selling their soul for short term benefit