So for me it's Primal which I backed, Monster Hunter looks fun, but I have the game on PC/Xbox, I don't need a simulation of it, Primal gives me something familiar but new, its in the same genre as Monster Hunter, but utilizes mechanics and monsters that I haven't seen in the IP Game. Also Jeremy thank you for that AMA, that helped a lot!
A few new monsters; a significant portion of them are pretty blatant carbon-copies. Vyraxen is Rathalos even down to the wingpatterns, Toramat is Barroth, Morkraaz's pose is transparantly Arzuros/Lagombi/Volvidon's but in a lizard skin. Korowon is...... well, just a big crab by all appearances, so basically the same as MonHun's Hermitaur/Ceanataur... Ozew is Seltas with lightning, Hurom looks an awful lot like an Odogaron with the 'lizard' slider up a bit. Pazis looks suspiciously like a Pukei. Nagarjas...... Don't even -try- to sell that as anything but Mizutsune, and then Sirkaaj is blatantly Tobi-Kadachi. Now, I don't think they were trying to hide it, and at the time they started I'm sure they had no idea a real MonHun boardgame was in the works. I do plan on getting Primal if they'll ever open up their fucking late-pledge..... But it's a fair bit of a stretch to justify Primal as being this refreshing new IP as a reason to choose it over MonHun World.
@@MastaDRD that's fair and to me it's less about the monster designs themselves, and more about Primal isn't bound to directly adapt the mechanics and feel of MHW. They can do whatever they want and tell whatever story (or lack there of) they want. So when I say it's new/fresh I mean I know from playing MHW the basics of how they will behave. And their behaviors are an adaptation of what they do in game, MHW has to be true to the IP as much as possible. Every items/gear piece is a digital render from the game. I currently don't know what the monster in primal will do other than trying to defend themselves, and trying to balance, damaging them, removing struggle limiting their abilities, using status effects. and limiting their ability to react. I'm hoping with those mechanics their can be a lot of variety in their behavior. Also if you are looking to back Primal at the game play all in pledge TGG games has pre-orders available last I checked.
Thanks for this nice video! Here's my input: Kickstarter comparison + Price: Primal 1 - 0 MHW => If you go all-in on gameplay (which is about 290$) that's 22 monsters and 6 hunters for Primal vs 12 monsters and 14 hunters for MHW. I think it would have been nice to have additionnal hunters for Primal, but I according to me the dissapointment is for MHW here : they are getting a lot of money from the backers (they'll probably end up with the double of Primal's funding) and what they give are some daily unlocks? I know you have to pay for the IP, but look at what Monolith did with Batman: 56 stretch goals in spite of the same requirement of paying for an IP. That's one of the reasons I'll get Primal over MHW even if I was ready to get both in the first place. Cardplay: Primal 2 - 0 MHW => I've watched your game of Primal with Quackalope as well as the MHW playthrough on Steamforged Games's channel and I found that the cardplay in Primal was more elegant ("the cards speak to each other" by Jeremy puts it in a nutshell), but MHW's one is looking good nonetheless. Board & Terrain: Primal 3 - 0 MHW => Primal's board is small but there's a lot going on in there whereas, despite being bigger, I feel like MHW's board is filled with a lot of void when it could have had so many more features. Monster Variability: Primal 4 - 1 => I think it's a tie here because even if Primal has more unique monsters, MHW has more versions of each monsters, so I guess we can't really tell until we get to play the games. But overall I'd rather hunt 22 monsters with 2 versions than 12 monsters with let's say 4 versions. Loot System: Primal 4 - 2 MHW => I have to give a win to MHW here because as you guys said it before, the loot system seems to be much more developed than the one in Primal. However, it looks as if there's enough diversity in Primal's equipment and crafting according to my personal tastes. Narrative: Primal 4 - 3 MHW => From what I saw the narrative is just a quick introduction to the game in Primal whereas it has some consequences on the game in MHW. That being said, I don't care much for the narrative aspect of games that are not designed based on a developed scenario. Arts & Graphics: Primal 5 - 3 MHW => Minis from both games are great, but if you look at the cards ... that's a clear win for Primal. These black boards and cards split by a yellow line are a bummer. Streamlined / Fiddliness: Primal 6 - 3 MHW => So MHW is more streamlined but as you said it can be for better or for worse, and so I'll be giving the point to Primal because there's fiddliness that enhances the strategic aspect of a game, which is good, and there's fiddliness that just add rules that don't feel meaningful. Here I would say that Primal's fiddliness seems to fall into the first category based on the gameplay I was able to see. Player Count: Primal 6 - 4 MHW => I think I will play Primal solo or with one friend. Three or four players seems easier to manage in MHW. Overall it's a win for Primal according to me. Now as I said, I was ready to take both but I feel like MH wouldn't hit the table that much, cause I'd rather play Primal instead. On the other hand, there are some miniatures that I'd love to get from MHW (Rathalos, Anjanath, Tobi-Kadachi from the Ancient Forest, Barroth and Diablos from the Wildspire Waste and finally the Nergigante). So I don't know, doesn't look like it's worth getting MHW for some minis but have the rest of the game ending up on a shelf.
I kind of like this system where you have a limited amount of days to take down a top tier threat in monster hunter, and how pushing for a break to help get what you need becomes more important in a limited time. It adds a bit of push behind all your actions.
LOL where’d this video go earlier? Got up early today so I started watching it while I was doing the dishes and making lunches for the kiddos and I got booted out. Suspicious! 😀
Great stuff guys! The main reason I had no interest in primal wasn't the gameplay, but having a massive price tag for huge minis featuring monsters I had no connection to. I've played monster hunter for years now, so even if it doesn't end up having great gameplay, getting a pile of new minis from an IP I love just makes it a much safer bet to me.
I appreciate all the coverage and comparisons vs Primal, it really helped solidified that MHW is the game for me over Primal. As for reasoning, MHW feels more like a Monster Hunting game (which is what I'm looking for) while Primal feels more like a Monster Fighting game. And seeing those Palicos come to life as minis gave me unexpected joy haha
This is one of the run downs I've been anxiously waiting for. I did back Primal. It looks SOOO good. I backed Horizon, it's good, not great and maybe the expansions will refine it some but it made me wary of MHW when it was announced. BUT, my son and I *loved* playing MHW on our PS4. There is a strong pull to MHW. Jeremy mentioned Sankokushin, which looks gorgeous but not really pulling me in at all... not like hunting big monsters does. Pretty sure I'll be backing this one. Hearing from both of you stating MHW has a smaller campaign, playable in an afternoon makes it VERY attractive. I have enough massive campaigns like Frosthaven, Aeon Trespass, Middara and so on that I don't want another endless campaign. Bite size sounds perfect!
Great video and great team. This is possible one of my favourite videos on boardgames of all time. Great discussion back and forth; and descriptions of game mechanics and the interior view of the players process in relation to the mechanics. Please do more.
[Disclosure: While Monster Hunter: World is appealing, and I might have purchased it in the absence of Primal: The Awakening, the depth of card play and deck building, the art, positioning, actions and reactions, and what I consider a better Equipment system (*), have me sticking with just Primal for now. That, and Primal having 17 monsters in their Core Box alone, and another 6 from their Expansions, for 23 monsters with 2 decks (for different Aggression levels, and their final boss, the Awakened, whose deck is modified by the course of the campaign), and 10 Nightmare Modes (wish there were more!), comes to between 23+ to 55+ different (**) monster fights, depending on how one considers the difference in Aggression decks and Nightmare Modes... not to mention simply having the fights with wildly different equipment and party setups. Monster Hunter World doesn't even come close with the Core Pledge (ignoring Entry Pledge, because let's be honest, so are most Backers) having 6 monster decks so far, perhaps 9 or 10 by the end of the campaign, at most, and another 7 in the Expansions, for a total of 13 ~ 17. I'm not sure how much the different Challenge ratings modify their decks, so I can't speak on that, but in either case, it's a fair bit less, and in a less compelling (to me) game play loop, to boot. (*Not necessarily the Looting, as I agree Monster Hunter does the Loot/Component gathering better, but what you can actually make with it in Primal seems more interesting.) (**We'll see, but the displayed mechanics for different monsters in the updates have been fairly unique from each other.) In the Monster Variability section of the video I noticed an element you both went with, in regards to monsters in Primal forcing player movement, or rather the lack thereof. I do acknowledge the point regarding the immersion of having a moving creature literally force your miniature to move positions on the board as the monster charges, desperately dodging or being thrown aside. It's very tactile and visual, compared to Primal's more 'theater of the mind' game play, and not to be discounted in value. I most certainly see the appeal. (Unless Jeremy literally was asking for the monster's mini to move to occupy a given sector's space, which, as stated, doesn't match the design, as it would cause several issues related to targeting, if nothing else. I doubt that's what he meant, but perhaps he was simply making a point.) That being said, Primal, even in the TTS Demo, had the following effects related to movement, forced, incentivized, or otherwise: -- Threatened: If you don't move on your turn, you are Threatened, and will draw two Attrition cards at the end of your turn, comparing your Defense cards against the higher value Attrition card. If you don't spare enough attention to defense, you risk suffering Attrition damage from the monster lashing out at your during your attack. -- The TTS Vyraxen's third Stance both automatically applies Fire to any sector with a Threatened Hunter at the end of the round, and also potentially damages the Hunter whenever they -do- choose to move. -- Piggybacking on the above, Fire, as generated by entering the third Stance (against Threatened sectors), and the resulting Peril described above, and multiple Behavior cards, outright prevents playing cards in your turn Sequence (it does NOT prevent discarding cards for Assist or Reaction effects, or moving), which somewhat, but not explicitly, forces player movement in response. 'Not explicitly,' not just because a player is not forced to move, but also as a particular hand(for example, full of Assists and Reactions), and other factors, might make a player willing to skip their turn despite being in Fire. -- The Vyraxen has a Behavior card which states "Players in the front sector immediately move or they suffer 1 damage." The Struggle-Boost effect requires the move to be paid with a 2-Stamina card, instead. Again, like Fire, it doesn't force movement, but it incentivizes it. This being the Challenge rating 1 version, one imagines it becomes much more dangerous to not discard a card to move and just take the hit at a higher Challenge rating. -- The TTS Toramat suggests strategic movement. From the second Stance onward, it gains Struggle any time a player moves, due to a new persistent(stays through the third Stance) Peril effect. It also has a similar card to the Vyraxen's above which, if Struggle-Boosted, damages players in the front sector if they don't move (must be paid for with a Green/Dodge card). Not the mention the very careful choices made to either take damage from a behavior or destroy the up to four limited Rocks generated by the scenario. -- The Toramat's Charge special Behavior card does include the line, under the "If there are any rock terrains in that sector" of: "Players avoid damage and immediately move without paying any stamina cost." Wording which, missing the particular word "may" before "immediately", suggests the players are forced to move, albeit for free. This somewhat unfortunately also gives Struggle to Toramat, per the previous effect. This accomplishes, albeit in a far more limited manner than Monster Hunter World, the idea of the monster charging it's way through the sector, forcing the players to dodge out of the way, lest they be crushed under it's weight. After which, the rear and flanks are abstracted as reforming around the new position of the monster. Again, this brings up the 'theater of the mind' concept I mentioned at the beginning of the post. In either case, while only the Toramat so far has shown an ability to explicitly force movement, I would say that I would not be surprised if others shared that feature (likely sparingly, to be honest, compared to numerous effects which allow a choice between moving, or suffering an ill effect, which I enjoy more besides). Aside from that, as you yourselves acknowledged, the terrain (including Water zones, for a few monsters, previously unmentioned) in Primal simply factors more into your decision making for movement. Not to mention that in Monster Hunter, you appear to largely be able to attack the monster from any direction, depending on which part you attack (with different Armor values and Break effects/rewards). Whereas in Primal, depending on the Stance, your attack vectors will often be restricted, which can result in a form of 'forced movement', simply to be able to attack (notably, only Red/Attack cards are actually restricted based upon the monster Stance's vulnerable sectors, per the default rules). Certain Weapons and Mastery effects (and cards) can conditionally deal damage (usually less) despite not being an Attack card, though.
That was such a great and thorough deep dive. You guys make an excellent team and you both have great analytical insights. Now I cant wait for Sankokushin!
I'm getting both, all-in. I understand how wildly different they are and the experiences they each bring. I enjoy how both play and they will satisfy two different camps of people in my gaming group while still providing the same overall experience of hunting big monsters and crafting loot.
You guys talk about them improving what reviewers saw wrong, but SFG has said multiple times the game is what it is/finalized and is going to production this way. Working with a licensee it's hard to make changes unless Capcom steps in.
Which just hurts so many games when not handled by a more confident and competent game developer. But I feel SFGs lacks innovation to ever present a very compelling game that can give them the weight to convince the IP owners for better changes if tweaks are needed or bolder designs. What I've seen from SFGs is not worthy of the price they're asking for what their games deliver, esp the quality of materials across multiple games.
Forgot to post when this came out; I'm getting Monster Hunter. I tried Primal with my group, and half liked the crunchy-ness behind the rules, but MH has more history, and with the slew of various weapons, seems to match more where we are playing.
I came to this after both original KS, and now we’re looking at the launch of Iceborne. My favorite part of this is that it really tipped me to committing to Iceborne, especially with the fixes (fixes…? Changes?) they made for Iceborne. Appreciate you both!
Went with, and just finally played, Monster Hunter and I was not disappointed. My expectations were kept in check, and I backed the core pledge knowing the main game + standalone expansion would be more than enough. Love the theme, love the minis, love the simple enough yet rewarding and challenging gameplay. Enjoy the between fight actions that can be taken. Enjoy the stamina board and learning it's nuances to become the stamina master. Love the loot and break mechanics! Solid 8/10
After watching this video, I'm willing to give Primal a try. I had some issues with Steamforged's Resident Evil 2 & Dark Souls. I have a $1 pledge for Monster Hunter World but I definitely want to wait and see if a pledge manager for Primal to open up. Great video guys.
Primal says it will have a Late Pledge option (unsure if you found out by now) and says a month or so they expect it to be ready to open up. Their website has a sign up to be notified when it goes live!
I've seen this before :p Anyway Marvel Champions being my most played game and loving it Primal got my money for the potential of awesome card play. In fact it is my most expensive KS as I went all-in so I hope they deliver in the end.
Love the video duo! Jeremy please stabilise that camera haha so bouncy. Another daily unlock and another alt sculpt in monster hunter. A bit gutting. Still with nearly 12k backers it won't matter much :)
Great (video) discussion guys... not games I'll back(ed) but been following with quite some interest. So very nice to hear your thoughts and views. Primal still looks like a more unique game, due to the total package of (graphic) design.
Thank you for the video :) I'm improving my english by watching a video about two board games i'm interested in. I love this kind of debate. Keep going :)
Love that you had Jeremy on, always a good conversation. I'm going with.... neither. Just prefer competitive games more, not sure I'd be into the boss battler genre.
Great video! I really enjoy the back and forth between you both. Personally, I'm all-in on Primal. The gameplay had me sold, and as a TMB fan, I loved the minimalist board. I also think the graphic design is more appealing in Primal. I have more faith in SFG than some, given my love of Godtear and may grab the core pledge plus hunters add-on for MH:W, but I'm not sure.
Interesting how completely different your approach to these campaigns is to mine. I prefer the "full product, no (or modest) stretch goals, no buy-ins" approach with regular updates to endless update spam and a main campaign page that takes an hour of squinting at text in images to read, with a base pledge of $150 that quickly balloons to $1000 with all the optional stuff. Bonus points if the goals actually come from interaction with the backers instead of being stuff previously cut out just to add it back in.
I really hope that MHW design learns from the DS design when it comes to terrain. DS already had that issue, map nodes could have barrels or gravestones, but they *never ever mattered*. Monster Hunter really needs this a lot more. Still, I have to say, MHW looks a lot better than I thought it would based on my DS experience. Still only getting Primal, but I'd play MHW too.
Great video guys. I'm all in for Primal and sitting on the fence regarding Monster Hunter World. MHW just doesn't seem to have enough to it (gameplay as well as components). Mind you the comment that you could easily get two 4 player games of MHW in one evening whereas Primal will take a whole night for a 2-3 player game does have me leaning towards MHW as well. I'll probably end up getting both but, for right now, common sense is over-ruling emotion...
I agree about Steamforged doing a good job keeping a positive vibe with their engagement with the comment section. But I feel some of the comments have merit and being nice still doesn't answer the questions. This is my first Steamforged game I'm backing but I not thrilled with the campaign. Especially since the KS I backed before this was Mythic Battles: Ragnarok. Total night and day. Bloodstone was sunk for running their campaign this way.
You guys work great together ! Super viewing. I'm on the Primal train personally... looking forward to seeing what happens. At least with MHW there may be a chance of picking it up at retail I imagine, if it ends up the better game.
I asked SFG about the monster hunter game boards if they have gameplay differences. They answered that they are just cosmetic pieces. Feels like a missed opportunity just make two doublesided boards with only art differences. In video game the gameplay has variance between the different biomes..
Monster Hunter at a glance looks like it's more flash than substance t o me. Something maybe decently fun at best but wears out it's welcome very fast and gets too repetitive. Primal I like because it looks like the Monsters actually react and act in more believable ways and do adapt to how the game is playing, changing up their behavior and threat, which in turn has you evaluate how you'll play your next turn, as well the options your party members may have or have to change. Imo, Primal offers a deep and unique game that has a fairly unique take on the Boss Rush genre of gaming for a miniatures/card game. Monster Hunter (to me) comes across as a bit too half-assed where the IP is meant to be the biggest draw and honestly, very few IP games pull my attention that offer fun gameplay (that can be light or deep) that don't feel like an afterthought.
Great team-up guys, excellent insights. Was it accidentally uploaded too early? I got halfway through it last night and then it disappeared from UA-cam - glad it got put back up! Also glad I backed Primal over MH.
I want to only get Primal, though I am also leaning towards both the more I see of Monster Hunter World. Kushala is indeed the biggest game changer for me. That's an intriguing minature! 🤔
I think I want something in between. I don't want another campaign game, so I like what Primal has to offer. But the upkeep on Primal is a big turnoff. Based on what I've seen, that part needs to be done better. That would probably help the player count. IT would probably help the game duration too. I don't need to have a boss battle for 2 hours or so. (I'm estimating that from what was said about taking more than half a game night.) I don't need nightmares about early MMORPG Raids. So, I guess what I want is a more streamlined version of Primal or a more puzzlely version of MH. I min-backed Primal because I wanted to see how MH looked. I think I'm actually going to pass on both.
Great video! until this point I was relented to buy Monster Hunter despite loving the IP, after watching this video by Alex and Jeremy I feel more confident in backing the board game, just hope they improve the art and add more mechanics with the terrain, those are my main issues
Just late pledged this it’s so expensive but Jeremy and your love for primal has been giving me remorse for not backing for last 6+ months and I finally succumbed
I just wanted to add a big point while I was rechecking both campaigns, If I'm not wrong, Primal, with all stretch goals and gameplay expansions, currently has over 20 monsters. 14 in the base games + 2x3 expansions + stretch goals. Monster Hunter has... drum roll... FOUR. FOUR monster in the base game. If you add EVERYTHING, you have... 11 ? 12 ?
I back Primal and I agree with you Alex and Jeremy on your reasons for picking Primal over MHW. Plus I also just back Mythic Battles Ragnarok, which took a big hit on my wallet.
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Great view! So, do you prefer MHW or Townsfolk Tussle? Do they compare?
Definitely I prefer Primal. I fell in love with tactical aspect of the game. With 2 players, one can play aggro one turn to make the monster turn as fitted for the second player to smash it the turn after, and harass the monster, unless a monster card surprises you, or a level changes the weak points... Gameplay is fun. At first glance, it looks like Primal is focused only on the fight, with less background and less narrative. But as Jeremy says, gameplay first. And gameplay and apparent depth in terms of tactics are showing far more appealing to me. I have no money to take both, thus I am happy with my pledge of Primal, and I won’t invest in MHW. Final point: Primal is sooooo gorgeous with comparison to MHW.... Great video! Thanks! It clearly confirmed my thoughts about both games 👍👍👍
Is it me or are the estimated shipping costs to the US kind of crazy? $78 - $89 (54% - 62% of the core pledge price). Primal was $30 - $42 shipping. This is the main thing keeping me from backing. I'll just wait for retail and get free shipping I guess. Thanks for any insight.
I really want to back MH but $150 is pretty steep for the core pledge imo. I’m going to wait and see what happens with the daily unlocks but I think money is the only thing holding me back. Looks fun!
Great video guys. Didn't know Jeremy, instant follow, you guys made a great team. I feel pretty much the same as Alex, I hadn't even heard of the mhw game before this. I slightly prefer primal so far due to deeper game play but I wish they were one game that has the best features of both. I want a good narrative arc, I want more movement, better loot mechanics and more variability in the monsters. So a combination of both.
Ich weiß du hast keinen Prototypen der Spiele. Ich würde mich trotzdem freuen, wenn du ein Video machen würdest, um auf die Mechaniken beider Spiele einzugehen. Du bevorzugst ja Primal, aber aus Leihenperpektive erschließt sich das für mich nicht so leicht, ohne es gespielt zu haben ^^
You two work great together, could get used to this! Great video! On topic: Would be more interested in Primal I think, but I'm also warry it might to be complex to hit the table regularly (have that problem with Skytear, which is really amazing and genuisly designed, but I hardly get to play it). Fortunally, I think they are both too expensive in a pure material/minis per dollar way. And yeah, I know that's shallow, but I get to skip 2 expensive KS this way.
I am happy to get both games and will see how they will end up on the table. I couln't get the game Jeremy metioned in the end, for which people should save :-) Could someone repeat the name for me?
I still have not encountered a big box mini game that I’m interested in yet. All minutia of watching stats and tracking just doesn’t appeal to me. Great content though! You guys are awesome! More vids again soon please!
I'm All in on Monster Hunter. I love me hunting monsters that move around, evolving characters and having some story algong side. Also the IP, I love me some Monster Hunter. Maybe I would have preferred something more similar to KDM, in the sense of the actual fighting, instead of the node system. Daam speaking of double sided boards, now I want KDM to have a double sided board hahaha.
Question to all: taking into account very high shipping prices to my country and I'll never be able to sell them, does it make more sense to go all in on one of the games or smaller pledges to both? I currently have a 1eur pledge on primal and thinking of doing the same for mhw until I can decide.
Really cool video!! Im so disappointed about the very few monsters we got so far at MH. I wish they were mashed up in one big epic game. The amount of monsters and art of primal, the board from MH, loot from MH, terrain from primal, CYOA from MH, craft from both.. Man... MH should have used some features from primal to make an amazing game. Now i realy want MH... but i also im upset that the campaign so far was disappointing. I really dont now what to do right now. And i dont have money for both
Primal run the KS community side awfully. They basically said day 1 they are not listening to feedback and would not consider other languages nor a version without miniatures.
Miniature games aren't going to have stand-ins period. It costs a LOT of money to make those molds/sculpts and to expect them to divvy up a handful of pledges to not have the miniatures and somehow produce a bunch of cardboard and change the production line is asking for a nightmare of issues. So there really isn't an issue to tell people that they can't compromise because people expect to get a cheaper game. Language is also a tricky thing because that would slow everything down more because of needing a translator to work of complex rules, wording and language that possibly can not be translate in a good way. Same with having to proofread multiple rulebooks and make each version up to par. Sometimes bigger game companies can offer that...but this is Reggie Games' second game. And they have expressed taking feedback and have responded to some people bringing things up...so at this point in time they've kinda rebuked your issues. And at the end of the day, KS Creators are not here to fully appease every demand from Backers because it simply isn't possible and there is a LOT of dumb requests that KS Backers often demand creators that have to be ignored. And sometimes their hands are tied on what they can or can't do and sometimes it's a matter of what their vision is for the game and there isn't a way for them to deviate from their vision & path.
Primal has 10-11 hunters? I thought there were only six - four in the base game and two in the Mount Havoc expansion? I'd love there to be more - did I miss something?
I have been on the fence with MHW going with only the entry pledge, because it felt so similar to Dark Souls the Board Game. Don't get me wrong, I like DStBG despite the unpopular grind and luck driven dice/item mechanic, it just felt like a repeating purchasing if I back MHW. How would you say (or anyone's opinion) what is the difference between both games besides the obvious theme difference and one is card-driven instead? Is there a deck-building aspect to MHW like Primal? Thanks.
Yeah went All-In on Primal, not getting Monster Hunter World. One because I went all-in on a late pledge of Stormsunder lol, so that's basically it for a while money wise. Two, its just not bringing me in with the Art & Graphics. Three, I prefer a more skill based card play, like Primal has, as opposed to the play and damage aspect of Monster Hunter World. .
I'm highly considering Late Pledging Primal! I love the miniatures and the card comboing & deck building. The price is a bit high but I feel this being their second game, was def a bit ambitious and probably cost them a lot outta pocket to get this off the ground. Apparently tho Late Pledgers are gonna have to expect to pay 10€-20€ extra. I'm not sure how I feel about that. What are your thoughts? Looked over Monster Hunter and it looks way too bland to me....and when I saw it was Steamforged Games and understood everything about it. Their Resident Evil miniatures looked awful, Dark Souls and Horizon Zero Dawn were pretty bad & unfun games for me. I do not have much trust or faith in them with their track record. I get that being passionate and kind and having a willingness to do better & improve yourself is good to have, but that can only go so far imo. If you have too many flops and issues that make your reputation overwhelming suspicious, I will have checked out from your future projects unless I hear overwhelming positions about your game consistently.
Saving for Sankokushin. No really I always was, something about primal just didn't pull me in, while I like the look of Monster Hunter but its too light for me, one thing I don't look for in a boss battler is a lighter streamlined version, I want them to be clunky and engrossing because these aren't games I pull out for my family these are for hard core gamers who are happy to spend days and weeks discussing tactics and agonising over load outs...
MHW Gives you Jagras and Anjanath those are very entry level monsters ingame, Primal gives you the equivalent of Barrioth and Rathalos which would be more advanced monster. I really want to try a MH Demo and see for myself, I feel its going to be a better game at the end, i already tried Primal and it disappointed me, its makes much sense for me to react and have the chance to avoid/defend and then going offensive than attacking and then waiting on monsters reaction.
Despite my love for the series, i’m not gonna back Monster Hunter. Though this is mainly because im getting one of the Game Topper’s game tables/tops. Thats gonna put a dent in the wallet 😅
@@BoardGameCo agreed! Almost backed the Origins Gaming table a couple months ago, but could find room for it in the apartment. The topper ended up being the perfect fit as i can easily store it under my bed when not in use. Seems very portable friendly as well
I'm fairly new to all this. I backed Primal but I'm still on the fence with Monster Hunter. It seems the reviews are good but after hearing so much negativity about Steamforged (specifically because of Dark Souls), I still worry about how good MHW will turn out. I'm curious for anyone who followed/backed Dark Souls back when it came out, were the issues known at this stage in development? Like, is it possible MHW could look this good but then still turn out as bad as DS did? Or are we already in the "this is definitely not a repeat of Dark Souls" phase? I have a hard time judging since I wasn't into the hobby during Dark Souls' campaign and these are all still prototypes.
From my perspective Primal wins way more than for you guys. Maybe it's because MHW isn't the pinnacle of the franchise for me, I loved the previous games way more, MHW was a bit too streamlined and a bit too boring at parts (like the tracking was cool the first time, but then it got dull). While Primal seems to deliver to me why I fell in love with the franchise, the depth of the fights and focus on them. Yes, you could go herb gathering and fishing and slaying creatures for meat and materials, but that was more to get your hands steady again for next tense fight. It feels like being a hunter. From the playthrough I watched of MHW board game, it's true to the video game and thus why I like it less, it's more focused on the hunters and gatherers part, being very accessible. I was sooo disapointed with them having breakable parts and seeing that breaking them just adjusts stats... how about enrage? How about they topple over if you break something? How about they start slipping in their charge? Yes, it wouldn't be as streamlined and I think that's why they skipped it. And that's why my sheer disapointment comes down to. MHW doesn't deliver the MH experience I want. Primal does. Even though I don't think Primal is perfect, it delivers the feeling I love and want. MHW delivers the video game feel, but then I'd much prefer to play the video game. Also I hate stills be it from movie or video game. And there's one more thing. You both apparently talked to SFG and you have confidence in their words and promises. I don't. I'm splitting their work into "their original IP games" and "popular IP games". And while the former is a solid team, I have 0 confidence based on the past communication of the second one. HZD was another nail in the coffin for me. They might prove me wrong with MHW, but I'm not willing to take that risk. But I hope for all those people backing the KS (if they back it for the game and not just for the minis) that they will deliver an enjoyable game for them. And I also hope Reggie Games will deliver on the experience I saw a hint of and want more of :) But I agree with you, those 2 strive for a different audience.
I backed Primal but will not be backing Monster Hunter World. I have backed 3 games from Steamforged Games, Dark Souls, Resident Evil 2, and Horizon, and I have been hugely disappointed with all 3. All 3 of them seemed extremely promising when they where announced, but ended up being lackluster in more than 1 way. The issues with the Dark Souls campaign and board game are to numerous to list here, but the biggest being the multi year delay and having the complete game take 3 separate shipments to finally receive the full pledge (which you had to pay separate shipping for the shipments), and the unpolished grindy nature of the game made it so by the time of got everything I did not even want to play the game again. With Horizon all of the previews made the games seem so strategic and fun to play but when we finally got the base game it was extremely disappointing and super easy to play. Horizon is another game with long delays and having most of the content being pushed to a second wave of shipping. The best of the 3 that I backed was Resident Evil 2, which is actually a pretty fun game to play and only took one shipment to release, but the component quality is extremely bad and the game was overpriced for what you got. because of these 3 games I decided I was done with Steamforged no matter how much I like the IP because I always end up disappointed when I finally get the game. I have backed dozens of games on Kickstarter, and for me, the Steamforged games are some of the ones I was most disappointed in.
Primal doesn't show well - MH shows very well. I'm grabbing Primal due to reviewers like both of you. I'm grabbing MH for ease of getting to the table with potentially my kids/family! But for my gamer friends - I'm thinking Primal may be the winner. . . Then for my RPGer friends - I have the greatest of them all with Kingdom Death: Monster.
Needs to be retitled to Play This AND That
Alex & Jeremy?!? All star team! Can’t wait to watch!!! Thanks guys!
Jeremy is great, love having him here :)
You both are!
So for me it's Primal which I backed, Monster Hunter looks fun, but I have the game on PC/Xbox, I don't need a simulation of it, Primal gives me something familiar but new, its in the same genre as Monster Hunter, but utilizes mechanics and monsters that I haven't seen in the IP Game. Also Jeremy thank you for that AMA, that helped a lot!
A few new monsters; a significant portion of them are pretty blatant carbon-copies. Vyraxen is Rathalos even down to the wingpatterns, Toramat is Barroth, Morkraaz's pose is transparantly Arzuros/Lagombi/Volvidon's but in a lizard skin. Korowon is...... well, just a big crab by all appearances, so basically the same as MonHun's Hermitaur/Ceanataur... Ozew is Seltas with lightning, Hurom looks an awful lot like an Odogaron with the 'lizard' slider up a bit. Pazis looks suspiciously like a Pukei. Nagarjas...... Don't even -try- to sell that as anything but Mizutsune, and then Sirkaaj is blatantly Tobi-Kadachi.
Now, I don't think they were trying to hide it, and at the time they started I'm sure they had no idea a real MonHun boardgame was in the works. I do plan on getting Primal if they'll ever open up their fucking late-pledge..... But it's a fair bit of a stretch to justify Primal as being this refreshing new IP as a reason to choose it over MonHun World.
@@MastaDRD that's fair and to me it's less about the monster designs themselves, and more about Primal isn't bound to directly adapt the mechanics and feel of MHW. They can do whatever they want and tell whatever story (or lack there of) they want.
So when I say it's new/fresh I mean I know from playing MHW the basics of how they will behave. And their behaviors are an adaptation of what they do in game, MHW has to be true to the IP as much as possible. Every items/gear piece is a digital render from the game.
I currently don't know what the monster in primal will do other than trying to defend themselves, and trying to balance, damaging them, removing struggle limiting their abilities, using status effects. and limiting their ability to react. I'm hoping with those mechanics their can be a lot of variety in their behavior.
Also if you are looking to back Primal at the game play all in pledge TGG games has pre-orders available last I checked.
Thanks for this nice video! Here's my input:
Kickstarter comparison + Price: Primal 1 - 0 MHW => If you go all-in on gameplay (which is about 290$) that's 22 monsters and 6 hunters for Primal vs 12 monsters and 14 hunters for MHW. I think it would have been nice to have additionnal hunters for Primal, but I according to me the dissapointment is for MHW here : they are getting a lot of money from the backers (they'll probably end up with the double of Primal's funding) and what they give are some daily unlocks? I know you have to pay for the IP, but look at what Monolith did with Batman: 56 stretch goals in spite of the same requirement of paying for an IP. That's one of the reasons I'll get Primal over MHW even if I was ready to get both in the first place.
Cardplay: Primal 2 - 0 MHW => I've watched your game of Primal with Quackalope as well as the MHW playthrough on Steamforged Games's channel and I found that the cardplay in Primal was more elegant ("the cards speak to each other" by Jeremy puts it in a nutshell), but MHW's one is looking good nonetheless.
Board & Terrain: Primal 3 - 0 MHW => Primal's board is small but there's a lot going on in there whereas, despite being bigger, I feel like MHW's board is filled with a lot of void when it could have had so many more features.
Monster Variability: Primal 4 - 1 => I think it's a tie here because even if Primal has more unique monsters, MHW has more versions of each monsters, so I guess we can't really tell until we get to play the games. But overall I'd rather hunt 22 monsters with 2 versions than 12 monsters with let's say 4 versions.
Loot System: Primal 4 - 2 MHW => I have to give a win to MHW here because as you guys said it before, the loot system seems to be much more developed than the one in Primal. However, it looks as if there's enough diversity in Primal's equipment and crafting according to my personal tastes.
Narrative: Primal 4 - 3 MHW => From what I saw the narrative is just a quick introduction to the game in Primal whereas it has some consequences on the game in MHW. That being said, I don't care much for the narrative aspect of games that are not designed based on a developed scenario.
Arts & Graphics: Primal 5 - 3 MHW => Minis from both games are great, but if you look at the cards ... that's a clear win for Primal. These black boards and cards split by a yellow line are a bummer.
Streamlined / Fiddliness: Primal 6 - 3 MHW => So MHW is more streamlined but as you said it can be for better or for worse, and so I'll be giving the point to Primal because there's fiddliness that enhances the strategic aspect of a game, which is good, and there's fiddliness that just add rules that don't feel meaningful. Here I would say that Primal's fiddliness seems to fall into the first category based on the gameplay I was able to see.
Player Count: Primal 6 - 4 MHW => I think I will play Primal solo or with one friend. Three or four players seems easier to manage in MHW.
Overall it's a win for Primal according to me. Now as I said, I was ready to take both but I feel like MH wouldn't hit the table that much, cause I'd rather play Primal instead. On the other hand, there are some miniatures that I'd love to get from MHW (Rathalos, Anjanath, Tobi-Kadachi from the Ancient Forest, Barroth and Diablos from the Wildspire Waste and finally the Nergigante). So I don't know, doesn't look like it's worth getting MHW for some minis but have the rest of the game ending up on a shelf.
I kind of like this system where you have a limited amount of days to take down a top tier threat in monster hunter, and how pushing for a break to help get what you need becomes more important in a limited time. It adds a bit of push behind all your actions.
My two favorite creators talking about a big question I'm asking myself. Very interested.
Jeremy is a blast :)
Jeremy is the coolest
LOL where’d this video go earlier? Got up early today so I started watching it while I was doing the dishes and making lunches for the kiddos and I got booted out. Suspicious! 😀
Love seeing Jeremy on this channel!
He's excellent :)
So awesome to see Jeremy on here! Love his insights in gaming!
He's awesome :)
Great stuff guys! The main reason I had no interest in primal wasn't the gameplay, but having a massive price tag for huge minis featuring monsters I had no connection to. I've played monster hunter for years now, so even if it doesn't end up having great gameplay, getting a pile of new minis from an IP I love just makes it a much safer bet to me.
This is an amazing cross-over. 2 of my favorite Board Gamer Guru's chatting it up.
I appreciate all the coverage and comparisons vs Primal, it really helped solidified that MHW is the game for me over Primal. As for reasoning, MHW feels more like a Monster Hunting game (which is what I'm looking for) while Primal feels more like a Monster Fighting game. And seeing those Palicos come to life as minis gave me unexpected joy haha
This was a fascinating conversation. Thanks guys.
Glad you enjoyed :)
Jhow hype! The man has one of the best attitudes in the space and I love watching him :)
This is one of the run downs I've been anxiously waiting for. I did back Primal. It looks SOOO good. I backed Horizon, it's good, not great and maybe the expansions will refine it some but it made me wary of MHW when it was announced. BUT, my son and I *loved* playing MHW on our PS4. There is a strong pull to MHW. Jeremy mentioned Sankokushin, which looks gorgeous but not really pulling me in at all... not like hunting big monsters does. Pretty sure I'll be backing this one. Hearing from both of you stating MHW has a smaller campaign, playable in an afternoon makes it VERY attractive. I have enough massive campaigns like Frosthaven, Aeon Trespass, Middara and so on that I don't want another endless campaign. Bite size sounds perfect!
Fantastic video. Watching this conversation between you and Jeremy was very enjoyable. I hope you both do this again!
Jeremy is 100% correct on Sankokushin: Five Sacrifices.
My most anticipated, not even close...
Insanely good conversation. Really fun listen
Thanks :-) Jeremy is always a blast.
Great video and great team. This is possible one of my favourite videos on boardgames of all time. Great discussion back and forth; and descriptions of game mechanics and the interior view of the players process in relation to the mechanics. Please do more.
[Disclosure: While Monster Hunter: World is appealing, and I might have purchased it in the absence of Primal: The Awakening, the depth of card play and deck building, the art, positioning, actions and reactions, and what I consider a better Equipment system (*), have me sticking with just Primal for now.
That, and Primal having 17 monsters in their Core Box alone, and another 6 from their Expansions, for 23 monsters with 2 decks (for different Aggression levels, and their final boss, the Awakened, whose deck is modified by the course of the campaign), and 10 Nightmare Modes (wish there were more!), comes to between 23+ to 55+ different (**) monster fights, depending on how one considers the difference in Aggression decks and Nightmare Modes... not to mention simply having the fights with wildly different equipment and party setups.
Monster Hunter World doesn't even come close with the Core Pledge (ignoring Entry Pledge, because let's be honest, so are most Backers) having 6 monster decks so far, perhaps 9 or 10 by the end of the campaign, at most, and another 7 in the Expansions, for a total of 13 ~ 17. I'm not sure how much the different Challenge ratings modify their decks, so I can't speak on that, but in either case, it's a fair bit less, and in a less compelling (to me) game play loop, to boot.
(*Not necessarily the Looting, as I agree Monster Hunter does the Loot/Component gathering better, but what you can actually make with it in Primal seems more interesting.)
(**We'll see, but the displayed mechanics for different monsters in the updates have been fairly unique from each other.)
In the Monster Variability section of the video I noticed an element you both went with, in regards to monsters in Primal forcing player movement, or rather the lack thereof. I do acknowledge the point regarding the immersion of having a moving creature literally force your miniature to move positions on the board as the monster charges, desperately dodging or being thrown aside. It's very tactile and visual, compared to Primal's more 'theater of the mind' game play, and not to be discounted in value. I most certainly see the appeal.
(Unless Jeremy literally was asking for the monster's mini to move to occupy a given sector's space, which, as stated, doesn't match the design, as it would cause several issues related to targeting, if nothing else. I doubt that's what he meant, but perhaps he was simply making a point.)
That being said, Primal, even in the TTS Demo, had the following effects related to movement, forced, incentivized, or otherwise:
-- Threatened: If you don't move on your turn, you are Threatened, and will draw two Attrition cards at the end of your turn, comparing your Defense cards against the higher value Attrition card. If you don't spare enough attention to defense, you risk suffering Attrition damage from the monster lashing out at your during your attack.
-- The TTS Vyraxen's third Stance both automatically applies Fire to any sector with a Threatened Hunter at the end of the round, and also potentially damages the Hunter whenever they -do- choose to move.
-- Piggybacking on the above, Fire, as generated by entering the third Stance (against Threatened sectors), and the resulting Peril described above, and multiple Behavior cards, outright prevents playing cards in your turn Sequence (it does NOT prevent discarding cards for Assist or Reaction effects, or moving), which somewhat, but not explicitly, forces player movement in response. 'Not explicitly,' not just because a player is not forced to move, but also as a particular hand(for example, full of Assists and Reactions), and other factors, might make a player willing to skip their turn despite being in Fire.
-- The Vyraxen has a Behavior card which states "Players in the front sector immediately move or they suffer 1 damage." The Struggle-Boost effect requires the move to be paid with a 2-Stamina card, instead. Again, like Fire, it doesn't force movement, but it incentivizes it. This being the Challenge rating 1 version, one imagines it becomes much more dangerous to not discard a card to move and just take the hit at a higher Challenge rating.
-- The TTS Toramat suggests strategic movement. From the second Stance onward, it gains Struggle any time a player moves, due to a new persistent(stays through the third Stance) Peril effect. It also has a similar card to the Vyraxen's above which, if Struggle-Boosted, damages players in the front sector if they don't move (must be paid for with a Green/Dodge card). Not the mention the very careful choices made to either take damage from a behavior or destroy the up to four limited Rocks generated by the scenario.
-- The Toramat's Charge special Behavior card does include the line, under the "If there are any rock terrains in that sector" of: "Players avoid damage and immediately move without paying any stamina cost." Wording which, missing the particular word "may" before "immediately", suggests the players are forced to move, albeit for free. This somewhat unfortunately also gives Struggle to Toramat, per the previous effect.
This accomplishes, albeit in a far more limited manner than Monster Hunter World, the idea of the monster charging it's way through the sector, forcing the players to dodge out of the way, lest they be crushed under it's weight. After which, the rear and flanks are abstracted as reforming around the new position of the monster. Again, this brings up the 'theater of the mind' concept I mentioned at the beginning of the post.
In either case, while only the Toramat so far has shown an ability to explicitly force movement, I would say that I would not be surprised if others shared that feature (likely sparingly, to be honest, compared to numerous effects which allow a choice between moving, or suffering an ill effect, which I enjoy more besides). Aside from that, as you yourselves acknowledged, the terrain (including Water zones, for a few monsters, previously unmentioned) in Primal simply factors more into your decision making for movement.
Not to mention that in Monster Hunter, you appear to largely be able to attack the monster from any direction, depending on which part you attack (with different Armor values and Break effects/rewards). Whereas in Primal, depending on the Stance, your attack vectors will often be restricted, which can result in a form of 'forced movement', simply to be able to attack (notably, only Red/Attack cards are actually restricted based upon the monster Stance's vulnerable sectors, per the default rules). Certain Weapons and Mastery effects (and cards) can conditionally deal damage (usually less) despite not being an Attack card, though.
That was such a great and thorough deep dive. You guys make an excellent team and you both have great analytical insights. Now I cant wait for Sankokushin!
I'm getting both, all-in. I understand how wildly different they are and the experiences they each bring. I enjoy how both play and they will satisfy two different camps of people in my gaming group while still providing the same overall experience of hunting big monsters and crafting loot.
You guys should do this more often. Great chemistry!
You guys talk about them improving what reviewers saw wrong, but SFG has said multiple times the game is what it is/finalized and is going to production this way. Working with a licensee it's hard to make changes unless Capcom steps in.
Which just hurts so many games when not handled by a more confident and competent game developer. But I feel SFGs lacks innovation to ever present a very compelling game that can give them the weight to convince the IP owners for better changes if tweaks are needed or bolder designs. What I've seen from SFGs is not worthy of the price they're asking for what their games deliver, esp the quality of materials across multiple games.
Also I only just said I don't have time to watch all these content creators....but now I have added Jeremy to my list! Haha.
i just really wish we had that public TTS Demo, that would help so much but maybe they know that and its why they wont
Forgot to post when this came out; I'm getting Monster Hunter. I tried Primal with my group, and half liked the crunchy-ness behind the rules, but MH has more history, and with the slew of various weapons, seems to match more where we are playing.
From me on arena: Tanares adventures pledge manager.
In the KS I pledged 100.00
Pledge manager added on 450.00
I came to this after both original KS, and now we’re looking at the launch of Iceborne. My favorite part of this is that it really tipped me to committing to Iceborne, especially with the fixes (fixes…? Changes?) they made for Iceborne. Appreciate you both!
Went with, and just finally played, Monster Hunter and I was not disappointed. My expectations were kept in check, and I backed the core pledge knowing the main game + standalone expansion would be more than enough. Love the theme, love the minis, love the simple enough yet rewarding and challenging gameplay. Enjoy the between fight actions that can be taken. Enjoy the stamina board and learning it's nuances to become the stamina master. Love the loot and break mechanics! Solid 8/10
After watching this video, I'm willing to give Primal a try. I had some issues with Steamforged's Resident Evil 2 & Dark Souls. I have a $1 pledge for Monster Hunter World but I definitely want to wait and see if a pledge manager for Primal to open up. Great video guys.
Primal says it will have a Late Pledge option (unsure if you found out by now) and says a month or so they expect it to be ready to open up. Their website has a sign up to be notified when it goes live!
I've seen this before :p
Anyway Marvel Champions being my most played game and loving it Primal got my money for the potential of awesome card play.
In fact it is my most expensive KS as I went all-in so I hope they deliver in the end.
Love the video duo! Jeremy please stabilise that camera haha so bouncy.
Another daily unlock and another alt sculpt in monster hunter. A bit gutting. Still with nearly 12k backers it won't matter much :)
Thats already corrected. Last second camera switch and this ended up becoming a problem. Thanks for the feedback. Always appreciated
Great (video) discussion guys... not games I'll back(ed) but been following with quite some interest. So very nice to hear your thoughts and views. Primal still looks like a more unique game, due to the total package of (graphic) design.
Thank you for the video :)
I'm improving my english by watching a video about two board games i'm interested in. I love this kind of debate. Keep going :)
Love that you had Jeremy on, always a good conversation.
I'm going with.... neither. Just prefer competitive games more, not sure I'd be into the boss battler genre.
Your preferences are doing yourself a favor... These games are a lot of money and a lot of time.
Great video! I really enjoy the back and forth between you both.
Personally, I'm all-in on Primal. The gameplay had me sold, and as a TMB fan, I loved the minimalist board. I also think the graphic design is more appealing in Primal.
I have more faith in SFG than some, given my love of Godtear and may grab the core pledge plus hunters add-on for MH:W, but I'm not sure.
Interesting how completely different your approach to these campaigns is to mine. I prefer the "full product, no (or modest) stretch goals, no buy-ins" approach with regular updates to endless update spam and a main campaign page that takes an hour of squinting at text in images to read, with a base pledge of $150 that quickly balloons to $1000 with all the optional stuff.
Bonus points if the goals actually come from interaction with the backers instead of being stuff previously cut out just to add it back in.
Well I hope you're satisfied. Now I'm backing both. I really wanted the game to be bad so I could only have primal.
Same lol Two all in pledges ain't cheap 😆
@@andrewmartinez2354 yes but they both look like such great games that will probably have great replay value
I really hope that MHW design learns from the DS design when it comes to terrain. DS already had that issue, map nodes could have barrels or gravestones, but they *never ever mattered*. Monster Hunter really needs this a lot more. Still, I have to say, MHW looks a lot better than I thought it would based on my DS experience.
Still only getting Primal, but I'd play MHW too.
Great video guys. I'm all in for Primal and sitting on the fence regarding Monster Hunter World. MHW just doesn't seem to have enough to it (gameplay as well as components). Mind you the comment that you could easily get two 4 player games of MHW in one evening whereas Primal will take a whole night for a 2-3 player game does have me leaning towards MHW as well. I'll probably end up getting both but, for right now, common sense is over-ruling emotion...
27:40 Aeon's Trespass Odyssey ;)
:)
Loved this video. J.Ho and Alex. Dope combination.
Loved to hear you guys!
I agree about Steamforged doing a good job keeping a positive vibe with their engagement with the comment section. But I feel some of the comments have merit and being nice still doesn't answer the questions. This is my first Steamforged game I'm backing but I not thrilled with the campaign. Especially since the KS I backed before this was Mythic Battles: Ragnarok. Total night and day. Bloodstone was sunk for running their campaign this way.
Through the Primal campaign I learned about KDM. So ended up with Primal and KDM 1.6.!! Passing on MHW.
Strongest move in the history of board games!
You guys work great together ! Super viewing. I'm on the Primal train personally... looking forward to seeing what happens. At least with MHW there may be a chance of picking it up at retail I imagine, if it ends up the better game.
I asked SFG about the monster hunter game boards if they have gameplay differences. They answered that they are just cosmetic pieces. Feels like a missed opportunity just make two doublesided boards with only art differences. In video game the gameplay has variance between the different biomes..
I originally passed on Primal. I'm considering late pledging for it and take a chance.
I'm really not feeling what Monster Hunter is offering.
Monster Hunter at a glance looks like it's more flash than substance t o me. Something maybe decently fun at best but wears out it's welcome very fast and gets too repetitive.
Primal I like because it looks like the Monsters actually react and act in more believable ways and do adapt to how the game is playing, changing up their behavior and threat, which in turn has you evaluate how you'll play your next turn, as well the options your party members may have or have to change. Imo, Primal offers a deep and unique game that has a fairly unique take on the Boss Rush genre of gaming for a miniatures/card game. Monster Hunter (to me) comes across as a bit too half-assed where the IP is meant to be the biggest draw and honestly, very few IP games pull my attention that offer fun gameplay (that can be light or deep) that don't feel like an afterthought.
Great team-up guys, excellent insights. Was it accidentally uploaded too early? I got halfway through it last night and then it disappeared from UA-cam - glad it got put back up! Also glad I backed Primal over MH.
MHW first, just for ease of hitting the table since my group is somewhat time-starved these days. Primal I'd still keep an eye on.
I've been fairly disappointed by the MHW kickstarter and I missed the initial Primal kickstarter period. Will there be a chance to jump in?
I believe they will have a late pledge
@@BoardGameCo Thanks!
I want to only get Primal, though I am also leaning towards both the more I see of Monster Hunter World.
Kushala is indeed the biggest game changer for me. That's an intriguing minature! 🤔
Great conversation! I love the insight and the dialog.
I think I want something in between. I don't want another campaign game, so I like what Primal has to offer. But the upkeep on Primal is a big turnoff. Based on what I've seen, that part needs to be done better. That would probably help the player count. IT would probably help the game duration too. I don't need to have a boss battle for 2 hours or so. (I'm estimating that from what was said about taking more than half a game night.) I don't need nightmares about early MMORPG Raids. So, I guess what I want is a more streamlined version of Primal or a more puzzlely version of MH. I min-backed Primal because I wanted to see how MH looked. I think I'm actually going to pass on both.
Great video! until this point I was relented to buy Monster Hunter despite loving the IP, after watching this video by Alex and Jeremy I feel more confident in backing the board game, just hope they improve the art and add more mechanics with the terrain, those are my main issues
Thanks :-) at this point I'm not sure I believe the art will change, still hopeful on terrain... But who knows.
Just late pledged this it’s so expensive but Jeremy and your love for primal has been giving me remorse for not backing for last 6+ months and I finally succumbed
I just wanted to add a big point while I was rechecking both campaigns,
If I'm not wrong, Primal, with all stretch goals and gameplay expansions, currently has over 20 monsters. 14 in the base games + 2x3 expansions + stretch goals.
Monster Hunter has... drum roll... FOUR. FOUR monster in the base game. If you add EVERYTHING, you have... 11 ? 12 ?
You guys are amazing! - Monster hunter might get my money in the PM - Trying to buy time to see what Sankokushin has to offer
Thanks for posting the name I couldn't figure out what they were saying and I was searching for psycho sushi lol
I back Primal and I agree with you Alex and Jeremy on your reasons for picking Primal over MHW. Plus I also just back Mythic Battles Ragnarok, which took a big hit on my wallet.
Great view!
So, do you prefer MHW or Townsfolk Tussle? Do they compare?
Definitely I prefer Primal. I fell in love with tactical aspect of the game. With 2 players, one can play aggro one turn to make the monster turn as fitted for the second player to smash it the turn after, and harass the monster, unless a monster card surprises you, or a level changes the weak points... Gameplay is fun. At first glance, it looks like Primal is focused only on the fight, with less background and less narrative. But as Jeremy says, gameplay first. And gameplay and apparent depth in terms of tactics are showing far more appealing to me. I have no money to take both, thus I am happy with my pledge of Primal, and I won’t invest in MHW. Final point: Primal is sooooo gorgeous with comparison to MHW....
Great video! Thanks! It clearly confirmed my thoughts about both games 👍👍👍
Dejavu? I thought I saw this video with Jeremy yesterday? hmmm....
Is it me or are the estimated shipping costs to the US kind of crazy? $78 - $89
(54% - 62% of the core pledge price). Primal was $30 - $42 shipping. This is the main thing keeping me from backing. I'll just wait for retail and get free shipping I guess. Thanks for any insight.
I feel like I won by watching this video. You two were great together. Given that, I'm not backing either game. :P
Jeremy is a blast 😂
I really want to back MH but $150 is pretty steep for the core pledge imo. I’m going to wait and see what happens with the daily unlocks but I think money is the only thing holding me back. Looks fun!
Great video guys. Didn't know Jeremy, instant follow, you guys made a great team. I feel pretty much the same as Alex, I hadn't even heard of the mhw game before this. I slightly prefer primal so far due to deeper game play but I wish they were one game that has the best features of both. I want a good narrative arc, I want more movement, better loot mechanics and more variability in the monsters. So a combination of both.
I think I’m gonna wait the next two years and pick it up at retail, not enough exclusives right now!!
Great to see both of you in one video. :)
Ich weiß du hast keinen Prototypen der Spiele. Ich würde mich trotzdem freuen, wenn du ein Video machen würdest, um auf die Mechaniken beider Spiele einzugehen. Du bevorzugst ja Primal, aber aus Leihenperpektive erschließt sich das für mich nicht so leicht, ohne es gespielt zu haben ^^
@@Brotzkopf Zu Primal gibt es ja ein Video mit mir bei BBG. Zu MHW werde ich wohl nichts aufnehmen, auch wenn ich jetzt wieder Internet habe. ;)
You two work great together, could get used to this! Great video!
On topic: Would be more interested in Primal I think, but I'm also warry it might to be complex to hit the table regularly (have that problem with Skytear, which is really amazing and genuisly designed, but I hardly get to play it). Fortunally, I think they are both too expensive in a pure material/minis per dollar way. And yeah, I know that's shallow, but I get to skip 2 expensive KS this way.
I am happy to get both games and will see how they will end up on the table.
I couln't get the game Jeremy metioned in the end, for which people should save :-) Could someone repeat the name for me?
I am worried that for such a price MHW will not provide enough gameplay depth. Also @BoardGameCo can you say what great games are coming to KS in May?
I still have not encountered a big box mini game that I’m interested in yet. All minutia of watching stats and tracking just doesn’t appeal to me. Great content though! You guys are awesome! More vids again soon please!
Thanks :) and Jeremy is great :)
Save all your money for Sankokushin!!!
Lol that's what Jeremy says.
@@BoardGameCo Haha I was quoting him :-)
I'm All in on Monster Hunter. I love me hunting monsters that move around, evolving characters and having some story algong side. Also the IP, I love me some Monster Hunter. Maybe I would have preferred something more similar to KDM, in the sense of the actual fighting, instead of the node system.
Daam speaking of double sided boards, now I want KDM to have a double sided board hahaha.
Question to all: taking into account very high shipping prices to my country and I'll never be able to sell them, does it make more sense to go all in on one of the games or smaller pledges to both? I currently have a 1eur pledge on primal and thinking of doing the same for mhw until I can decide.
You guys are always great together.
Really cool video!! Im so disappointed about the very few monsters we got so far at MH. I wish they were mashed up in one big epic game. The amount of monsters and art of primal, the board from MH, loot from MH, terrain from primal, CYOA from MH, craft from both..
Man... MH should have used some features from primal to make an amazing game. Now i realy want MH... but i also im upset that the campaign so far was disappointing. I really dont now what to do right now. And i dont have money for both
Waiting to late pledge Primal! Does anyone have an idea of when PM will open??
I believe Primal is going to open their pledge manger with in the next 2 months. That what they said in the comments on April 15th, 2021.
Ahh thank you!
You’re welcome.
Primal run the KS community side awfully. They basically said day 1 they are not listening to feedback and would not consider other languages nor a version without miniatures.
Miniature games aren't going to have stand-ins period. It costs a LOT of money to make those molds/sculpts and to expect them to divvy up a handful of pledges to not have the miniatures and somehow produce a bunch of cardboard and change the production line is asking for a nightmare of issues. So there really isn't an issue to tell people that they can't compromise because people expect to get a cheaper game.
Language is also a tricky thing because that would slow everything down more because of needing a translator to work of complex rules, wording and language that possibly can not be translate in a good way. Same with having to proofread multiple rulebooks and make each version up to par. Sometimes bigger game companies can offer that...but this is Reggie Games' second game.
And they have expressed taking feedback and have responded to some people bringing things up...so at this point in time they've kinda rebuked your issues. And at the end of the day, KS Creators are not here to fully appease every demand from Backers because it simply isn't possible and there is a LOT of dumb requests that KS Backers often demand creators that have to be ignored. And sometimes their hands are tied on what they can or can't do and sometimes it's a matter of what their vision is for the game and there isn't a way for them to deviate from their vision & path.
Primal has 10-11 hunters? I thought there were only six - four in the base game and two in the Mount Havoc expansion? I'd love there to be more - did I miss something?
4-6 hunters in Primal, you're right.
Can we do this again since both games have already come out?
Ooh...I'm open to that soon :)
I have been on the fence with MHW going with only the entry pledge, because it felt so similar to Dark Souls the Board Game. Don't get me wrong, I like DStBG despite the unpopular grind and luck driven dice/item mechanic, it just felt like a repeating purchasing if I back MHW.
How would you say (or anyone's opinion) what is the difference between both games besides the obvious theme difference and one is card-driven instead? Is there a deck-building aspect to MHW like Primal? Thanks.
Yeah went All-In on Primal, not getting Monster Hunter World. One because I went all-in on a late pledge of Stormsunder lol, so that's basically it for a while money wise. Two, its just not bringing me in with the Art & Graphics. Three, I prefer a more skill based card play, like Primal has, as opposed to the play and damage aspect of Monster Hunter World. .
Primal all the freaking way. MH doesn't have enough depth for me and that's a big deal for replayablility and fun. I'm glad I got my Primal pledge.
A Battle between Giants begun!
Ouff I did my full pledge on primal.. and I'm waiting for townfolks tussle.. now im wondering do I actually need mhw ..love the figurines of mhw.
I'm highly considering Late Pledging Primal! I love the miniatures and the card comboing & deck building. The price is a bit high but I feel this being their second game, was def a bit ambitious and probably cost them a lot outta pocket to get this off the ground. Apparently tho Late Pledgers are gonna have to expect to pay 10€-20€ extra. I'm not sure how I feel about that. What are your thoughts?
Looked over Monster Hunter and it looks way too bland to me....and when I saw it was Steamforged Games and understood everything about it. Their Resident Evil miniatures looked awful, Dark Souls and Horizon Zero Dawn were pretty bad & unfun games for me. I do not have much trust or faith in them with their track record. I get that being passionate and kind and having a willingness to do better & improve yourself is good to have, but that can only go so far imo. If you have too many flops and issues that make your reputation overwhelming suspicious, I will have checked out from your future projects unless I hear overwhelming positions about your game consistently.
Saving for Sankokushin. No really I always was, something about primal just didn't pull me in, while I like the look of Monster Hunter but its too light for me, one thing I don't look for in a boss battler is a lighter streamlined version, I want them to be clunky and engrossing because these aren't games I pull out for my family these are for hard core gamers who are happy to spend days and weeks discussing tactics and agonising over load outs...
MHW Gives you Jagras and Anjanath those are very entry level monsters ingame, Primal gives you the equivalent of Barrioth and Rathalos which would be more advanced monster. I really want to try a MH Demo and see for myself, I feel its going to be a better game at the end, i already tried Primal and it disappointed me, its makes much sense for me to react and have the chance to avoid/defend and then going offensive than attacking and then waiting on monsters reaction.
Despite my love for the series, i’m not gonna back Monster Hunter. Though this is mainly because im getting one of the Game Topper’s game tables/tops. Thats gonna put a dent in the wallet 😅
Good choice. A good game table or game table system, will help you play more games. And that's better than having more games.
@@BoardGameCo agreed! Almost backed the Origins Gaming table a couple months ago, but could find room for it in the apartment. The topper ended up being the perfect fit as i can easily store it under my bed when not in use. Seems very portable friendly as well
@@BoardGameCo Hey Alex, I'd love to see a video with your recommendations for a gaming table.
I'm fairly new to all this. I backed Primal but I'm still on the fence with Monster Hunter. It seems the reviews are good but after hearing so much negativity about Steamforged (specifically because of Dark Souls), I still worry about how good MHW will turn out.
I'm curious for anyone who followed/backed Dark Souls back when it came out, were the issues known at this stage in development? Like, is it possible MHW could look this good but then still turn out as bad as DS did? Or are we already in the "this is definitely not a repeat of Dark Souls" phase? I have a hard time judging since I wasn't into the hobby during Dark Souls' campaign and these are all still prototypes.
Dang it, Jeremy is costing me money. 😂😂😂
From my perspective Primal wins way more than for you guys. Maybe it's because MHW isn't the pinnacle of the franchise for me, I loved the previous games way more, MHW was a bit too streamlined and a bit too boring at parts (like the tracking was cool the first time, but then it got dull). While Primal seems to deliver to me why I fell in love with the franchise, the depth of the fights and focus on them. Yes, you could go herb gathering and fishing and slaying creatures for meat and materials, but that was more to get your hands steady again for next tense fight. It feels like being a hunter. From the playthrough I watched of MHW board game, it's true to the video game and thus why I like it less, it's more focused on the hunters and gatherers part, being very accessible. I was sooo disapointed with them having breakable parts and seeing that breaking them just adjusts stats... how about enrage? How about they topple over if you break something? How about they start slipping in their charge? Yes, it wouldn't be as streamlined and I think that's why they skipped it. And that's why my sheer disapointment comes down to. MHW doesn't deliver the MH experience I want. Primal does. Even though I don't think Primal is perfect, it delivers the feeling I love and want. MHW delivers the video game feel, but then I'd much prefer to play the video game. Also I hate stills be it from movie or video game.
And there's one more thing. You both apparently talked to SFG and you have confidence in their words and promises. I don't. I'm splitting their work into "their original IP games" and "popular IP games". And while the former is a solid team, I have 0 confidence based on the past communication of the second one. HZD was another nail in the coffin for me. They might prove me wrong with MHW, but I'm not willing to take that risk. But I hope for all those people backing the KS (if they back it for the game and not just for the minis) that they will deliver an enjoyable game for them. And I also hope Reggie Games will deliver on the experience I saw a hint of and want more of :)
But I agree with you, those 2 strive for a different audience.
I backed Primal but will not be backing Monster Hunter World. I have backed 3 games from Steamforged Games, Dark Souls, Resident Evil 2, and Horizon, and I have been hugely disappointed with all 3. All 3 of them seemed extremely promising when they where announced, but ended up being lackluster in more than 1 way. The issues with the Dark Souls campaign and board game are to numerous to list here, but the biggest being the multi year delay and having the complete game take 3 separate shipments to finally receive the full pledge (which you had to pay separate shipping for the shipments), and the unpolished grindy nature of the game made it so by the time of got everything I did not even want to play the game again. With Horizon all of the previews made the games seem so strategic and fun to play but when we finally got the base game it was extremely disappointing and super easy to play. Horizon is another game with long delays and having most of the content being pushed to a second wave of shipping. The best of the 3 that I backed was Resident Evil 2, which is actually a pretty fun game to play and only took one shipment to release, but the component quality is extremely bad and the game was overpriced for what you got. because of these 3 games I decided I was done with Steamforged no matter how much I like the IP because I always end up disappointed when I finally get the game. I have backed dozens of games on Kickstarter, and for me, the Steamforged games are some of the ones I was most disappointed in.
I'm getting either as I'm waiting for the Witcher board game KS
Not unreasonable :)
I rather the shorter “play this not that”videos! Are easier to watch
Generally they are, this one runs longer due to a conversation.
Can’t wait.
Hmmmmmm, according to the MHW FAQ the game is dev complete?
Primal doesn't show well - MH shows very well. I'm grabbing Primal due to reviewers like both of you. I'm grabbing MH for ease of getting to the table with potentially my kids/family! But for my gamer friends - I'm thinking Primal may be the winner. . . Then for my RPGer friends - I have the greatest of them all with Kingdom Death: Monster.
Heh, I passed on both these but I still watched the video Alex! Monster hunter looks bad-ish I am shocked at the # of backers ...