You've Been LIED to! | How to Calculate CNC Machine Spindle Torque and Power
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- When purchasing a CNC Machine for your job shop it's important to understand how the spindle, torque and power ratings work. Many machine tool builders hide the truth in small print. In this video we will show you exactly how to calculate spindle power.
0:00 The "Must know" about spindles
0:26 Buying a CNC Machine
1:05 What you missed
1:33 How a CNC Spindle works
2:16 Power vs Torque & Spindle Types
2:59 Torque and Power Curves
3:43 Kennametal's NOVO
4:42 Machine Rigidity
5:13 Best way to spend your money
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#CNC #Machining #Machinist - Наука та технологія
Haas is hitting themselves in the head, not taking the sponsorship deal with Titan :D
Even if they would have, this shop would probably still be filled with imported machines. A lot of the machinery Titan has is bigger than the machinery Haas makes.
No... I am poor human trash. They will not sell me their machine. Lol.
Titan is too busy making parts than cleaning out Haas machines
@@judehansen8140 Have you seen the chip bin on their new Heller? At Titan's preferred MRR, he's going to need it.
Haas machines would be unable to do anything even remotely close to this .. have fun stalling the spindle all day .. when the machine isnt making you deaf becuse its so unstable ..
Nice to see you finally talking about what really matters in production machining. Don't be mislead by machine reps' on the capabilities of their machines. Do your homework, it will save you a ton of time, money and sleep. Been there and done that!
I feel ya. Like everyone else around here I love new machine day but I have to say, every day prior is a pain in the ass because there are a hundred other things I could be doing that are more productive.
The big picture is always important. Narrow focus on cost and not overall ability tends to contribute to shops buying the minimum machine needed. They seldom think long term in having a machine that they can grow into for at times not much more money. Sturdier machines suffer less from wear and tend to produce better tolerances versus a lower cost machine. "Buy once, cry once" is a good saying to remember.
Barry sets out the framework that any dodo should understand, Titan You deserve 500k subs by end/yr
BOOM & KEEP BOOMING on
Thanks
Web hit 500K right about the middle of Dec
The "Trevor Gobackwards" comment killed me! Great video guys! Awesome breakdown and tips, Barry!
Can you show us where, the "competitor" who shall not be named, touched you?
Noone beat this guys in content and honesty, i subed years ago and i love watching you guys grow. This is how is industry should be and i glad your team sets that standard, usa baby god bless🇺🇸
Exactly the insight I needed at the correct time. Thanks for sharing.
Well, that explains why the Haas machines at work throws high temp spindle motor alarms.
Corvette body with a 2 cylinder engine
You guys should be called the GODS of CNC... I watch in amazement your feeds and speeds, And still dont have the balls to run my milling mach that way
hah, i feel you, but afterwhile you'l might get sick of how slow your machine is going so, you'l eventually try to go faster, even if it just cranking up the feedrate.
Gotta head back in to keep running my machine but I'll definitely be back to finish this one!
It would be great to see the video of spindle replacement and the time it took from the call that your machine is down to machine back and running, the cost, and shop work rearrangement to other machines. Keep in mind that currently there's global supply chain problem, and everyone who would like to abuse their machines should know if there's lot's of spare parts available from different OEMs if bunch of machines worldwide starts to go out. The show off always great until it hits you hard.
HAAS I was down for 41 days before the supply problems
That's nifty gritty getting down to the science. I have run silicon valley CNC shops as a programmer for almost 7 years now, and Its pretty simple to just pick a HAAS, 40 or 50 taper. I suppose when your high production, and trying to squeeze out every penny on long term jobs, this is a good way to calculate.
Excellent presentation and a lot of good points being made here.
Awesome breakdown of spindle specs. The rigidity and performance of DN Solutions dual contact spindles are excellent.
Thanks Ellison! DN makes it easy to understand!
@@barrysetzer 😗😚Quit sucking up man! You've already got the job bro.🤣
How is NHM6300 continuous power situated above 30 min power while Mynx series have continuous below 30 min line?
Guys who said you were going to break that ibarmia spindle actually never worked in a cnc machine shop or did ever take a big cut. I was cringing so hard on those comments. I've got a little 10hp bridgeport which is crying daily because of the forces its undergoing while machining mostly stainless and super duplex. Spindle is still running fine for years and if it breaks, it already has made so much money that we could buy 20 of those machines if not more. I've noticed you got a couch in the background ? I hope your employees are allowed to go there and relax while machine is running, as i currently got health issues as a result of 15 years on my feet 8-12 hours a day, i really appreciate being allowed to sit for a minute.
Yeah I think a lot of people don't understand the kind of stress our bodies go through being a machinist. Like you, my feet and back ache every day, all day, regardless if I'm working or not.
Very informative video Barry, nice work!
we are in an online world yet most machine tool builders require you to call a dealer for a quote. just put the price online in your website like haas. get with the modern age.
Man keep doing these videos you are awesome!
Question: If you work faster to save client money and make the parts cheaper and then you go to the food store and find out that prices of the food there have gone up 3 times from the day before what do you do? You work 3 times faster the next day?
This video helped me a lot. Thank you. Does anyone know where I can find the specs for a brother s700x with 16k spindle?
You mentioned a very important details about choosing a right machine for a specific application
Always informative videos. Love the theatrics 😂
YESSSS INFOTAINMENT!!
Awesome video Barry and Cory!! 👏🎬
Nice insert. Many buy machines without thinking about these matters.
SVM4100 and DNM6700 should arrive to our shop sometime in February, then we will see if the trust i put in your videos was warranted. We got a great deal on those machines and i cant wait to push them and show the company owner how much faster modern machines are compared to aging light duty Pinnacle VMCs we have now.
You wont regret it ;)
@@barrysetzer hope so :D if you would check my last short video you would find the limits of our current machines
Excellent choice and great machines. They both come packed with standard features built-in to help you with productivity and if you're in one of our territories, you'll always have support when you need it.
@@ellisontechnologies thanks, but be are in Slovakia, not the US
Have have they been doing for you?
I overheated my Fanuc robodrill a few times. It did take 36 hours robot loaded running with a dull tool 😂
Stuck a new tool in and it ran non stop for 3 weeks 24/7 after that
Awesome video Barry! Also great acting Cory 😂
You've given me lots to learn about.
Very valuable for our aluminum product processing plant.
Thanks … powerful info .
Barry! Love the content!
Thanks Grego!
Hey guys It would be interesting if you make a review about the MR-1 CNC machine from Langmuir Systems, and test it’s capabilities and compare it against Tormach machines!
Is internship option available in your company?
Super helpful!
Thankyou for sharing bro
Do u guys replace the windows on ur machines regularly so u can see inside when machining our cncs at my shop u cant see anything have to open door to see whats going sometimes
U know, by law u have to replace them every 3-5 year depending on the size and kind of materials cause after these years the plastic and glue weakens and can’t withstand a fly peace of metal
My tool is getting burning
After completing operation it couldn't not save for another operations
It's cutting good but it could not saved
What's the problem
Also i am having 2d adaptive pocket cleaning it's start doing operation but after 2 mm of depth tools got burned
you guys shouldve edited the Godzilla clip and cut out his roar and replaced it with "Boom!".
In the video titled “I just broke my spindle,” you should probably have a part where you break your spindle.
Just changed the title… Thanks
Nice plug for the software you use but I was hoping for some actual formulas or way to calculate.
Sales department's good negotiations and relationships with customer's purchasing is what makes money and not MRR. Unless you want a race to the bottom with your competition for the job.
Yes great point! As long as your salesmen sell your capability, youre golden! And then you can run as slow as you want and make tons of money! Yay!
Well here he said about torque and power being proportional but didn't get in depth which is where the real stuff actual lies in between the constant which was missing and that constant is the more important factor in actually deciding the torque to power ratio
Sounds like the old box welders that could really crank out the amps for a short time followed by a relatively long rest /cooling period...... low duty cycle :(
Good video.
Facts my brothers.
First shop I ever worked replaced spindles like crazy bc they hired super inexperienced ppl didn't train them properly so there was alot of crashes.
So I have a question, about spindle fretting. In our shop all our mills limiting factor is fretting. Anytime we come anywhere close to the spindles or machines limit we start to get fretting in the spindle taper, all our machines are big plus spindles and all our tooling is as well. Just wondering if anyone else has this issue as well. Don't get me wrong we remove some metal but it's always fretting for us thats the limiting factor.
U men’s fretting corrosion?
@@kleini3 I guess maybe, when you get the gold colour on your tools and if you leave it it eventually turns into pitting on the toolholder and In the spindle.
@@85CEKR did u checkt ur Lubrications ? Maybe not enough oil reaches the bearings. But when misalignment isn’t corrected inside the spindle it doesn’t change
@@kleini3 it's not from inside the spindle, it's from taking heavy cuts and the pressure put on the two different metal surfaces (spindle taper and tool taper)
You can coat the tapers on the tools, or make sure that some the thru tool coolant ends up on the taper, minimal help but maybe enough, if you have knocked the front face of the double contact with a bit of swaft, you might have issues with the seating.
Also get your belville washers checked for tension, if it's down up might be getting a bit of tool walking down the taper, also try feed milling or plunge milling to ensure forces are pushing tools in.
did you ever have or test a brother Spedio CNC ?
Thought about it but have never met or seen a Brother employee of any kind.
@@TITANSofCNC its changing tools like a boss. I hope you own it and show us
Seen a hydraulic motor twist off a 10 inch 316 ss shaft once it looked like a twizler
Sooo... where's the video of a spindle breaking ?
Please recommend books for CNC working and operations… Thanks
Academy.titansofcnc.com
Its not the machine but whats inside it which matters more not even petty things like BT 40 / BT 50 and companies like HAAS really screw people up
I love this video xd
Operator: 10000rpm and feed 5000... iron.... Cutter diameter 80mm...
Spindel: God, take my soul....
yaskswa tends to overate thier drives and motors, old hurco and Cincinnati machines are built like tanks, My cinturn 12u is 45 yrs old, no wear in the ways
The part where the guy smashed his computer 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Let's say Sam Jones has a CNC shop and he's fixin' to buy a new mill. Vendor X shows him a chart that rates the spindle power at 200 percent load. Is there a formula that'll let him translate that to spindle power at 100 percent load?
Honestly, if there is a formula for that, im not aware of it, but you could calculate it based on another manufacturers spindle chart maybe and get a rough idea!
@@barrysetzer Thanks. I figured it wasn't linear.
I remember one day my boss ask for move a CNC with forklike one back on front and let's go
I say OMG nice idea so that we can buy a new ......
my boss answer why ????
Ok I will organise and supervise if you want your CNC run again .......
Speed is only important is mass production shops, keeps those button pushers jumpin.
Just searched for this machine svm4100 and learned doosan is now called DN solutions.
You know hurco Machines?
What you think about hurco?
🤓🤔
It's duty cycles. Going over 100% spindle load just means you can only do it for a short period. I've had things that I had to run at around 120% load, but only for short bursts. No problem.
Yep, the DMGMORI DMU we had used to frustrate me so much because it would start skipping and stalling at 80% load…
@@TITANSofCNC wow. Your honest experience like this really is valuable. Wish you guys could work with some well built Japanese machines too. OKK, Yasda etc.
Always open
@@TITANSofCNC do u guys have any contact emails? We are trying to setup an engineering solutions company here in Uruguay and we need advice
Ran a siemens equipped horizontal borer, 3500 ish Nm in low gear, 100%load on that is fun to see.
The load meter is just a fancy visual gauge which means nothing until you've done you 3rd part, then you can use it to keep an eye on the tool wear through tool management, the rest of the machine will help know what is too much, then adjust to get the balance between tool life and stalled in the cut 😁
While there are many machine tools that are better than haas , one thing that this video isn’t explaining is that haas spindles are 150% continuous 200% for 5 min, how many people even have the jobs that require a continuous 30 hp cut for 5 min…..
I trust that you're not going to blow up a spindle, but keep in mind that ultimately the bearings take all machine forces and the harder you run your machine, the faster the bearings are going to wear out. All that energy has to go somewhere. Heavy duty usage requires a more aggressive maintenance program.
It's rarely if ever a linear progression, though. If you do your homework, it could be worth running the machine at a pace that would look brutal to the traditional 'eyeballer' types.
Is it just me or does Barry look alot like Dara O'brien in the thumbnail 🤔 😅
Lol
Now if anybody didn't understand anyone of that you are on the wrong platform
Coolant Oil looking for its space
manual feed cutting pressure? hand dial 30mm off center of 1.25mm thread pitch, 30/1.25=24x hand weight 3lb= 74lb. 3/8 bit 74lb cutting force and its making pin shards off of a 280'000psi hardened stainless surface plated strut rod... using a $84 drill press, made the rod square with cuts smaller then a basic digital micrometer can measure. set up test, hardest metal available... black oxide HSS bits do nothing to the surface coating on that stainless strut rod... HSS bit vs "mystery metal" just to see the bit melt away to nothing hardly scratching the work stock? carbide tungsten... eats it... just like my breakfast the cops took last week, too good they wanted to get some... hand slips "30lb on the feed knob" and there is 780lbs on the cutting face and the $84 drill press w/ brazed table guide grease nipples all over tension set screws springs etc. vibrates everything off the barn wall but starts making flakes not 0.00007 shards. broke a T-slot height notched mill clamp, the hardened steel teeth cracked/lost the outer steps. square 280kpsi tensile round bar. does it work?
vice jaws...
👏🏼👏🏼
Доволі крутий матеріал
Hi
can you translate this video to russian lanuage???
I just wanted to comment on that hilarious photoshopped thumbnail. I can't believe anyone actually expected that kind of failure 😆
Right lmao!!!
But the spindle's feelings!
Any vacancy
Nice sir #adarshcnccadcam
rebuilding a spindle aint that expensive vs lost time , just send it bud
So pretty much don’t buy cheap. Buy either soo doosan , mazak, okumas , gotcha
Haas ?
@@JulianGarsep i really don’t like haas. I’m more of an Okuma guy . I ran a haas once didn’t like it at all
He lightly touched on this with the two spindle types. Most people get in trouble trying to run a low torque high speed spindle like it is a high torque spindle. Understanding what you have and how it affects the needed programming strategy is VERY important. If you're running aluminum and small tools you may want the high RPM, even though that means relatively fragile ceramic bearings and low torque duty cycles. In fact, I have run a machine where I overloaded the motor with just all the RPM ramp up and downs, not the cutting load. Tools were so small they would have broken way before the motor load even registered on the amp meter.
@@terryallemann2654 okumas are the best in my opinion .
It came to me yesterday, but I also find it quite ironic hearing Titan talking about american made and american manufacturing, and yet you exchanged ALL your american made Haas machine tools for their korean counterpart since the american machines could not keep up with the rigidity and spindle power/torque put out by the korean machines.
Im not mocking anybody here, I'm just saying it's ironic.
We have a ton of video tutorials on our Academy that teach how to set up and run Haas. We also teach Tormach, DMGMORI, Makino, Doosan and now Heller.
There are levels to the game and to keep Americans working, you have to invest in the right technology that allows you to compete in a global market. The simple truth is that America doesn’t make the higher end machines and if we did… We would definitely use them unless other machines were simply better. What’s better… Buy American and potentially lay off your workforce? Or Buy the best technology so you can hire more Americans…
We also have 1100 videos on UA-cam where we literally discuss all aspects of machining and how to run a business. I think this torque and power segment was useful and very important. Most would never know that more than 1 company quotes power and torque specs based on 200%… especially since most never want to run over 70%.
Anyways, Haas is great for many up and comers and or companies that run aluminum and light steel etc. But you definitely have to look outside the US if your running complicated and tough materials. It’s just a fact
@@TITANSofCNC I have a feeling this discussion could go on forever really, but here is another take on it.
Ok, so you are not using Haas anymore (or to a lesser extent) because they simply can't compete with the european, japoanese and korean machines, meaning you have to look outside the US. It also means Haas will make less money and cannot afford to invest as heavily as they may have to into the R&D neeeded to match the competition, meaning they may have to lay off americans in the long run, right?
Of course I understand your point of view too, heavier cuts and higher feeds means less time per part, meaning $$$. You are talking about being competitive and that's perfectly fine and very sane for any business, but at the same time you are saying Haas machines are inferior to their foreign counterparts and simply can't keep up with the needs of your shop.
It's been at least 20 years since I last stood on the floor by the way and I'm pretty sure by now you know I'm not an american.
Keep going though, I find these videos very informative.
Cheers!
Oh No but you bearings can’t handle that load!! 😂
I love how these videos act like we all can buy a machine. Guess what? It's painful to fill up the tank or go the grocery store. Give me a tip on how to back spot with minimal cost. Oh wait, get a new machine.
We have an entire Free Academy.titansofcnc.com that teaches this trade to anyone that wants to learn. We have 150,000 online students and machinists all over the world learn from us… for Free. We also teach on a million other things including different things you need to keep in mind when purchasing or using a machine.
TIKTOK 👍🏻
What,
memes 👍
When I saw the title I was like bs there is no way Barry broke a spindle already. I was right... You click baiter. You should have rick rolled us at the end.
No mention of box way vs linear way? Only saying it because it's just as important as spindle rating when buying a new machine.
Haha thats coming, Grumpy.
@@barrysetzer 👍
haas is scrap
20's? You can tip an exotic dancer 20 times for that... and she'll be sexier too....
... your Titan CNC is - material fatigue - and Madonna is material girl - U must know it's fate.
난 놀랐습니다. 한국에서는 DN의 평가가 좋지 않습니다.
I'd liked a more in-depth explanation on the spindle graphs. S1 ,S2,S3 exc....
Sure! S1 is usually what you can run at continuously. S2 is usually what you can run at for a specified amount of time, and s3 is usually also for a specific time period less than s2. S4-6 will be a percentage of a 10 minute duty cycle, so if s6 is 15%, you can run at 1.5 minutes at this curve, followed by an 8.5 minute cooldown.
このNCマシンじゃ間違っても
俺の加工は出来ないよ
I don't care what spindle your machine has milling a vice off the table it stupid.
Haas is cheap junk