The Curious Career of Joel Embiid | The Bill Simmons Podcast
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- Опубліковано 21 кві 2024
- The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Ryen Russillo discuss Joel Embiid’s career thus far.
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missing on Fultz hurt the worst imo. a scoring threat like Tatum would have formed the perfect trio of Embiid, Tatum, and Simmons.
As in Ben Simmons?? Bill Simmons? Can’t be talking about Ben Simmons being in a “perfect trio”
With the dificult that the Celtics had with two many shooters with Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum and Brown in 2018, Simmons paired with Tatum, Embiid and another shooter would take the pressure for him to shoot and easy to drive without Harris, Butler, Saric and Horford c login the lane
@@miket3910Ben Simmons was an all-nba performer for most of his career. If he didn’t have his coach and costar throw him under the bus, he would still be.
COULDA, SHOULDA, WOULDA doesn't work in "real" life
They failed in almost every single move to build around embiid. Fultz, Simmons, a Jimmy rental, 180 million for Tobias. The list goes on and on
Joel Embiid is a fancy car with internal defects - if you can get anything close to full-price, do it and move along. You may be jealous when you see the seller driving it around but just know in the near future, it will break down and it won't be your problem any longer.
A 7 Series BMW with 140k miles on the odometer.
I'm terrible with cars so I didn't want to embarrass myself and name a specific car lol!@@mjwbulich
I’m in the market for a used Maserati. My name is Steve mills. Oh wait, Leon rose took my job
@@mjwbulich Maserati too lol.
A Land Rover 😂
He’s gunna make a great injury prone 3rd banana on a team with old, former stars. Like when the rockets had Pippen, Barkley and Drexler.
True, but I think that Rockets team kind of stunk. (They had Olajuwon too. 10-15 years prior and that would’ve been the most insane team ever)
@@patrickthomas8890exactly. My hypothetical Embiid team gone be ass too
Starting to believe he’ll be the only MVP to never make a conference final
Embiid reminds me of Hakeem Olajuwon, but in the body of mid-‘90s Patrick Ewing with the durability of ‘80s Bill Walton.
Did Ewing have injury issues?
@@fortynights1513 Yeah. He was a beast at Georgetown and in his first few seasons but by 1992/1993, all of the wear and tear started to catch up with Big Pat’s frame.
Funny enough going forward I think his best chance of winning a chip would be to do the 80's Bill Walton route and be a 6th Man. Obviously he's still MVP-level but don't think the Sixers are going to make any headway on a chip while he's still in his prime unless they pull a crazy free agent. Could absolutely dominate for 20-or-so minutes, not have to worry as much about injury or being THE guy during the clutch, which he obviously struggels with,
@@Kagemusha08 I don’t know if they need to go that route just yet but I feel like having a very serviceable backup center could be a huge boon because that’s what helped Boston maintain its dominance this year when Porzingis missed games. Horford was able to slot in and have throwback performances. Paul Reed is fun but I don’t think he’s that guy. Maybe Philly can nab Robinson or Hartenstein from NY.
Embiid is way bigger than both those guys, by a significant margin. Ewing was actually pretty jacked, even though he didn’t really move very fluidly. Hakeem was just ripped and also ran like he was 6 foot tall.
To be fair to him: the Sixers have never put a good backup center with him, and they’ve missed on his costars.
They honestly lucked into Maxey, and everyone else didn’t work out as a 2nd or 3rd star.
That doesn’t excuse anything, but compared to the support Giannis, Jokic, and Tatum have around him? It’s just hard to establish a hierarchy there.
Andre Drummond but then they traded him for Harden
Al Horford is a pretty good backup center now, let alone a few years ago.
holy shit, what a sweatshirt from Ryen! My dad visited the Deer Lake training camp while Ali was there when he was a teenager with my Grandpa. Incredible.
Ali said that every white child should be ended before they become white adults and you support someone like that lol
We do not care!
Your grandpa is disappointed in you
Only light at the end of the tunnel is the possibility of Maxey ascending close enough to his peak prime in the next 1-2 years while Embiid is hopefully not too far removed from his.
Philadelphia is also a destination team for free agents or superstars that want to get out of their not ideal situations. Like Harden.
But they are getting close to being in the ‘we need to start hitting the jackpot on some guys in the draft’ territory in the next couple years.
and getting Paul George next year would be sweet
@lylewalker5681yeah everybody loves living in Philly lol. The armpit of the east coast
An authentic salient conversation about Embiid that's not either just sucking off fans, or unfairly criticizing him! Wowwee zowee. thank you!
Embiid being the only player on the roster who's on a guarantee for next season is kinda wild. Things could look dramatically different in October.
I think he's gotta change his game - that dunk was very impressive, but a little floater would have also got 2 points and saved his knee. The injury is not his fault but we're at a point where he needs to adapt his game to maximise what he can do
Reminds me a bit of the Butler injury, easy layup but just had to bait a foul and got injured. I know that's not what Joel was doing but like you said, a change in playstyle might be in both of their best interests.
Yeah but if he did that he wouldn't get gifted 10+ free throws per game.
Reasons why Embiid struggles in the playoffs
1. Playing below your size and settling for jumpers (as he was a forward or shooting guard)
2. Not having a go to reliable effective move offensively (like Jokic, Olajuwon or Kareem)
3) the game in the playoffs is way more physical than in the regular season where defenders can hold you and grab you.
4) the game is reffed differently, less superstar calls and free throws, a skill that Embiid has mastered beyond other superstars.
4. Opposing teams scheme for you and scout your weaknesses unlike in the regular season. You aren't forced into your worse tendencies in a regular season game.
5. Every possession matters in the playoffs and your mistakes are exacerbated. The margins for error are tinier.
6. Pressure, nervousness are real in the NBA. The playoffs are not like NBA 2k where players perform like in the regular season.
Joel Embiid and Houston James Harden are very similar players in the sense that they are unstoppable scoring machines in the regular season.
In the playoffs their game is easy to pick apart with physical defense and less free throw reliance.
If your playing in the NBA and worrying about highlight plays as a big man, you're probably nearing the end of the road.
He's usually throwing up jumpers and floaters. That was one of the rare times he went up with authority
Availability is the best ability
2:00 Russillo didnt do his homework again LOL
🎯🎯🎯
Tobias Harris makin 35+ mil a year for half a decade "why can't Embiid get past the 2nd round?"
the worst thing that happened to Embiid was never the injuries, it was being drafted to Philly
This is a lame excuse, every nba team has b- players that make a+ money, there simply is a shortage of high quality nba players and they usually never make it to free agency. Look at teams like Portland and Houston they were begging to throw their cap space at anybody, fucking Fred VanVleet is a top 15 paid player
2019 vs the raptors Embiid averaged 17.5ppg on 37% shooting, and 4.5tov. He was just bad, he was awful. He lost the sixers the series.
False.
Embiid needs to be rested and preserved for the playoffs, much like Boston did with Porzingis. Of course Porzingis is the third option and they have good depth with Horford. The Sixers don’t have that luxury when everything revolves around Embiid. No team can really pull that off with a max player.
David Robinson has two rings, methinks.
Great conversation around this. This has been a discussion amongst some of my Philly fan friends and I. Tough call. Trade for a ton of picks?
None by 30 which was what they were talking about. He did get 2 in his last few years with Duncan though
Correction Bill: Embiid was drafted with a fractured vertebrae his first season. His second season was him fracturing his foot in a bowling accident
Embiid is the Grant Hill of big men, his career will probably transpire that way to, he'll probably go be a 2nd option somewhere and have more playoff success. This "franchise player" narrative is fading....
This reminds me of when Bill said that James Harden is the Karl Malone of guards. I think that may apply in this situation, too.
"When the teacher says turn in your homework." -- Russillo's reaction @ 2:14
The parallels between Embiid-Jokic and Jackson-Mahomes are remarkable
Case in point why LeBron and ultimately Durant made the decisions they made. They didnt want their prime years to build a legacy to not come with championships. They didn’t want to be toiling away on good to great teams with no titles to show for it. Health and luck matter, and Embiids career is why players build super teams.
That one year where they had Jimmy and a non-broken Ben Simmons was the best chance they had before that Kawhi game winning shot.
It's also sad for the 76ers that after all those tanking years and high draft picks, they still haven't managed to get out of the second round even when Embiid was healthy.
the rigged Kawhai shot
@@KwisBwownrigged, how?
@@jeremyapache you didn't see the highly unnatural bounce on the shot? Bill Simmons commented on it also how it almost never bounces like this.
There is no bad luck with 2019. In 2019, he had Jimmy Butler to be the best player. Joel just had one of the biggest choke jobs in NBA history by shooting 37% from the field and having more turnovers than assists in a tight 7 game series. If he was just bad instead of awful they win that series.
Then you have 2018 where the 76ers were cooking with a fast paced offense and it was derailed with Embiid who couldn't run with everyone else.
Then there's 2021 where everyone blames Ben Simmons but Joel also played like trash over the last 4 games but because Simmons' errors were louder everyone focuses on him.
Then last year the 76ers won both games that Embiid missed and Joel single handedly blew games 6 & 7 when they were up 3-2. It's not luck, Joel is just not an elite player. Everyone with a moderate - large platform just pretends like he's a top 5 player when he's clearly not.
Embiid is an unbelievable talent, an All-NBA performer, and he just can't stay healthy. That's the end of the conversation. He is a spectacular player. And I hate the sixers, I'm a Knick fan
There's also an outrageous amount of organizational mismanagement that has had a devastating impact on his career from 2019-present. The Tobias Harris trade and contract, choosing Ben Simmons over Jimmy Butler, not trading Ben Simmons for James Harden before the 2021 playoffs ruined his hamstring, my god the Tobias Harris contract, choosing lame coach Brown and Ben Simmons over Jimmy Butler, Doc Rivers, paying Tobias Harris max contract money for half a decade. The Markelle Fultz trade. All of this done because Adam Solver forced the 6ers to fire Hinkie and hire that goon Colangelo with his burners and then that idiot Brand and they nuked the team. Oh and Ben Simmons literally gave up on basketball in the middle of a playoff series. That's insane. Unprecedented.
The problem with Embiid is he doesn’t know how to pace himself during the regular season
The problem with your comment is you don't know what it's like to be Embiid.
I don’t think it’s bad luck. This is who he is. The playoff failures don’t even include the fact he didn’t play at all his first 2 years and only 31 games his third.
The two playoff concussions were bad luck, so up until recently you could squint and talk yourself into it still. This is the second straight year with knee stuff though, kind of feels like the end of the peak.
Having Sam Hinkie forced out and replaced by incompetent goons who burned all of Hinkie's assets and locked all of the team's money into Tobias Harris and Al Horford, before hiring Doc Rivers, is the real bad luck.
It's insane how little backlash he's gotten over the years for not getting out of the 2nd round.
and he's already 30 years old lmao
Ur so slow
@@Pump-rq2uf cope
they've chosen him as THE ONE because there's a faction that simply hates Jokic.
“how little backlash” lmao are you serious? it’s literally the only thing that ever gets brought up when someone one mentions his name
Is he Patrick Ewing 2.0 minus the injuries?
At this point just donate Embiid's knees to science
The sixers got lucky with how maxey is turning out. At least he gives them direction whenever they decide to move on from Joel. I couldn’t imagine where they would be without Tyrese. Joel probably has 2 to 3 good years left before the decline hits hard
Joel flops and throws his body around like he's Kyle Lowry sized, he's never once been in shape and he seemingly goes full throttle for the majority of the regular season. Is it really any surprise he's always injured? Hate to say it but a lot of it is self inflicted for Embiid.
omg bro he falls so much i keep saying this can someone tell this guy to stop falling. You can only fall so much before you have a injury
Right? God, thank you for this. I've been saying for so long that he seems to think he's 6'6" 215 when, in reality, he's one of the biggest players on the court. Like, what the fuck are you doing flopping every play? Do you want to be injured? No? Then stop playing like a foul-baiting chickenshit. Develop some post moves for christ sakes.
Repeatedly getting injured is almost always self inflicted, whether due to playing style, preparation, or diet, the player is always about 99% at fault.
What the hell u talking about? 99%?!
@@carltonrudolph I've been saying this, too, for a long time. There may be 15 or so times where he is going to hit the floor because of the normal course of play. He seems to add another 10 trips to the floor just trying to draw calls. That always seemed unsustainable for a guy who had back surgery early in his career.
Simmons and Harden were magnets for the negativity. He has def skated
Literally giving up, healthy, on the court, will do that to you. Who exactly is the guy that you're gonna point to and say "go win the finals with Ben Simmons and Tobias Harris as your best two teammates and btw they're making 30+ mil each. Also, we gave Al Horford $120mil in 2020"
I just wish we hel Embiid accountable like any other player. Kawhi managed to push through and get a ring. I dont think the injuries are as big of an excuse and people make it
Ewing with no knees still put Knicks at Conf Finals. 4 times. Philly missed on drafting several players to help Embiid. This should not be a Joel issue alone
Philly certainly didn't do him any favors by wasting as many high picks as they did. He underperforms a lot but so did Ewing. Just that Ewing had better constructed teams around him and an All Time great coach.
shouldn't surprise anyone - this was always the case from the day he was drafted. I actually think he's made a great career for himself given he sat out basically his first 3 years
Mr. Simmons please keep poking ESPN!! I love when you mock their 6 person booth!! You are the goat!!
"Trust the process"
Are we surprised about his injuries when he didn’t play the first two years basically. Dude was fragile from the beginning.
Given that he missed the first two years, credit him for having as much of a career as he has.
Though I can understand why many are underwhelmed by what he’s done because of his playoff career.
My all NBA oft injured team:
Kawhi, AD, Embiid, PG-13 and CP-3
Honorable mention - Zion, Lonzo Ball and LeMello Ball
Man, what a solid regular season team 😂
😂
Embiid is just the big man version of tmac
Love the Deer Lake Sweatshirt.
They touched on it a bit on Windhorst's podcast but Joel has a "flair for the dramatic" and I wonder how hurt he really was. He strikes me as the type to stub his toe and roll on the floor screaming in agony, I guess we'll see how he looks for the rest of the series.
Yup
I’m not tryna be rude but this is a horrible take. The dude plays through so many injuries because he wants to win. He’s played through so many injuries that guys sit out for and sacrifices his health in losing playoff series. His pain tolerance is insanely high and no matter how hurt he is he’s always either the best or 2nd best player on the court. He is dramatic but not when it comes to injuries.
If they were true he’d be sitting in the sidelines collecting his paycheck, not rushing to get back in time for the playoffs.
@@DYNAMICHAZZARD he wants an excuse when he chokes in the playoffs like every year
He was demonstrably bleeding through his massive, late 90's Patrick Ewing knee brace. If you think he's was flopping you are an idiot.
Embid or David Robinson? Who would you take?
Both are worse in the playoffs than they were in the regular season, but Robinson
The biggest mistake was not surrounding him with adequate players after the 2019 season. They signed Tobias Harris instead of Jimmy Butler, gave Al horford a 4 yr deal and extended that knucklehead Ben Simmons
There's no comparable to Embiid. It's just mindblowing seeing a 7 footer, so fluid and coordinated when it comes to basketball, but has no ability to absorb impact, and its like he doesn't know what to do when he's falling, and his contact balance is terrible, so he's constantly falling. I see no way he ever wins a Championship as a core player.
Anfernee was shot in his broken foot in college. Apparently he says thats the genesiis of all his injuries.
Laughable to think the lakers would trade Davis for Embiid. Davis has been sooooo much healthier than Embiid ever has.
Its awful luck. When Jonathan Kuminga appeared to leap onto his knee it almost seemed destined.
Cant give up on the guy yet, because if he left its almost inevitable he wins two rings somewhere else.
List of All Stars that Joel Embiid has beat in a playoff series:
- Bradley Beal
- Pascal Siakam
MVP
My apologies... I forgot D'Angelo Russell was an All Star that year in Brooklyn
Holy shit you're right, lol. God, that's pathetic.
You can do the same for lebron in the weak East.
@@coreyhansen9711 and Fred VanVleet (2022 all star the year raptors lost to sixers in playoffs), Goran Dragic (2018 all star the year heat lost to sixers in playoffs). Plus Embiids career is not over, the current series he is in is not over either. there is still some time sport
The guy is always hurt. I'm convinced he's just not a durable guy. Sure guys get banged up, but major injuries are not the same.
Joel Embiid is the classic example of why the greatest ability is availability. All things being equal, I believe he’s a more dominant force on both ends of the court then Jokic or Giannis but all things being considered, there’s no way I would take him over either one of those guys to be the lead in my franchise. And even when we talk about his injury, history, a lot of the knock on Embiid is the fact that he does carry too much weight, and people questioning his approach to conditioning. He had/has the talent to be the best center in NBA history but for a number of reasons INCLUDING his injury history, he’ll likely never come close to reaching that potential.
They missed the obvious (and most dire) center comp for Embiid: Yao Ming.
29-27 is tough for a playoff record. His 6 foot tall teammate Kyle Lowry has a better playoff resume than him
Lowry has had an excellent career but you are correct..
Shipped has sailed, past his prime and will become a Knick in two years...
I remember Phil Jackson calling it for Embiid before he entered the league. He wasn't comfortable with his running gate and the way he moved and expected injuries.
When was this ? Having the stress fractures before the draft and the navicular bone breaks and missing the first 2 and a half years. Jackson was a prophet with that guess.
If we are looking for players with weird careers, Embiid to me is like T-Mac. The elite scorer who arguably was more talented than the all time great he plays against. For T-Mac it was Kobe and Embii, Jokic. Just bad luck in the playoffs and then the injuries will start piling up.
He’s probably the best shooter from the center position in NBA history. The problem is he just doesn’t have the killer instinct like Jordan had to put games away. That’s why he has so little playoff success. which is a shame because the guys so talented I would love for that to change
Embiid deserves some level of criticism because at the end of the day he’s on the court. You have to figure it out. Some of his injuries are just freak/unlucky injuries.
He’s also been let down by his teammates, mainly Ben Simmons, Tobias Harris, and James Harden.
he s not in shape and he s the one letting his teammates down - simmons lol everyone who counts on him is lost
Harden had 2 40+ point games in one series last year when he was in his mid 30s in year 15.
Embiid has had 1 40+ point playoff game his whole career
@@hardwoodthought1213 yes he had two great games against Boston. Look at Harden’s stat line the rest of that Boston series.
. Show me Embiids 😂😂😂😂😂
@@heigherheights21 Ive acknowledged Embiid has underperformed. His teammates were worse.
Us Sixers fans just can't understand why he cannot stay healthy for ONE postseason, just one! I feel he needs to lose 15-20 LBS like Ryen said just to preserve his legs. He's the most talented big in the game today but sadly, that doesn't mean squat if he's unavailable or at 50% come postseason. He legit had one healthy playoff run in the 2020 bubble but that team was horribly constructed. Maybe he needs to be the #2 option or have a much stronger supporting cast like in 2019 with Jimmy Butler. Idk, it's beyond annoying anymore...just feels like groundhog day every year for our Sixers.
Sacramento is the team that would grossly overpay for a star. They had their over achieving year and this year fell down to earth. They have good young guys and picks to trade if Philly decided to move on from the process
Potential trade for embiid? Warriors offer, Wiggins, kuminga, moody, Payton and a couple firsts. They get off of Wiggins contract, and they now have size, capitalizing on currys time left. 76ers get a bunch of young talent and future draft capital, they can use to build around Maxey, kuminga, moody etc. This would be a partial rebuild, but they need to restructure. If 76ers don't think it's enough, maybe get a 3rd team involved or offer up TJD maybe?
You can’t call his injury history unlucky when it took Joel until 5 years into his career to become a relatively well conditioned NBA player.
Man. I’m a huge Celtics fan and I love Embid. I was things shook out differently for him. I thought this was gunna be the year that Boston and Philly were gunna have a bloodbath 7 gamer. It is a little damning that he has had some good teams and he just looks tired come playoff time. Even when he isn’t injured.
What year was he not injured and just looked tired?
When was he not injured?
Only MVP ever never to make the conference finals.
Bob McAdoo never made the conference finals as a starter
@@chase8d I’ll give you that one. Only have to go back 50 years.
@@sffan10Some players have objectively good regular seasons and simply can’t translate it into the playoffs
The Carmelo Anthony of centers
He probably wasn't as good but Embiid sorta makes me think of Tulo on the Rockies. Dude just constantly got hurt, though Tulo even more then Embiid was getting fluke injuiries (Embiid gets both glass bones injuries and flukes).
If you say youre hurt, its a safe way to play pressure basketball because nobody expects you to play well and if you do, its a bonus. Its a cop-out. If youre hurt, dont play. I question the severity of Embiids injury. Its questionable just like his entire playoff career.
It's funny to me how Embiid will still play in the Olympics, barring any major injuries during the playoffs. He's risking a further injury in my opinion.
As a sixers fan he’s beyond frustrating. Either hurt or doesn’t play well enough. We should of traded him after last year when his value was higher
Agree yes
It's lower now but teams will talk themselves into it. I'm not sure you'd actually get a worse trade package.
Detroit would likely give you Cade + other stuff in a heartbeat with all the pressure they are under to win even 30 games. Charlotte might give you LaMelo *and* Miller. Atlanta would give you Trae. GS would give you Kuminga + all their picks to extend Steph's run. Chicago, Washington and Portland you could just take your pick of what you want. And NY or Brooklyn would give you every first they own.
In the NY scenario you'd have to watch Julius Randle play basketball so idk if there are enough firsts in the world but on the plus side there's a 75% chance Joel would Trojan horse this Knicks team and get Thibs fired. Of course there's a 25% chance he gets in the best shape of his life and Thibs and turns into late career Wilt as a defender, rebounder and hub on offense and rips off two titles.
Joel Embiid's postgame interview was one of the weakest things I've ever seen. Moping, pouting, blaming the refs instead of taking accountability for not for securing crucial rebounds as the biggest strongest dude on the court... Pathetic. I don't think he'll ever win a chip as the best player.
Embid shouldn't make the hall of fame if he doesn't get to a conference final in his career. That might sound like a wild take but it's warranted
McGrady never passed 1st round until his final year and played as the 12th man, and he's in the FoH. Everybody gets in nowadays
Tracy Mcgrady made HOF and he never won a playoff series aside from 1 season carried by Spurs in 13.
- No player with a scoring title has missed the HOF since 1948 (Embiid has 2)
- No player with an MVP has missed the HOF (though DRose might)
- No player with 7+ all star appearances has missed the HOF since the 50s (though LaMarcus Aldridge and Joe Johnson might)
He's an obvious lock, and even if the basketball HOF was as competitive as the baseball or football HOFs, I still think he'd squeak in.
Jokic is a tier 1 all-time center Bill. He's already better than moses. And if he wins s this year with 3 mvps and 2 fmvps we are gonna have some convos
@Russillo, best thing he can do is swim, alot.
Injuries are one thing.
Serbija are a country of 8 million. They have never naturalized a player for their basketball team.
Up until recently, Hellas (10 million) had never naturalized a player, either. It's considered a "Cardinal Sin", of sorts.
Embiid chose to play for Team USA. A country of +300 million people, who has the deepest pool of basketball players.
This is a weaker move than Durant joining the Warriors. By FAR!
People in USA disregard some international basketball details, because of their point of view. Just because the competition was inferior, doesn't mean you can't draw conclusions on people's minds through their actions.
He's also the same guy who told Lisa Salters, BEFORE the Play-In game, that his teammates "needed to step up", if he and Maxey "didn't have it that night". Already in "excuse mode"!
He is basically the anti Jimmy Butler. Butler coasts all year and then plays like an alltimer in the playoffs. Embiid is like one of the 10 greatest regular season stats guy of alltime and then is toast come playoff time and at like 65% of his regular season self. Also he doesnt seem to be made for playoff intensity. I mean he didnt even play his firat two years at all, which is like a crazy red flag.
In his best playoff year Butler has averaged less than Embiid has over his playoff career. Somehow people just overlook that Embiid might not be averaging 30 ppg but he still averages more than all these playoff risers. He just gets held to a different standard and then talked down upon like he still isn't better than all those second option players...
I can only fault Embiid but so much because Sixers front office is trash. They wasted a lot of years making management mistakes historically. Look at the drafting, trades, acquisitions, coaching, etc. Look at how much they rely on him during games to shoulder each end of the court. This is a center.
He’s had 4 All-Stars and can’t even crack a conference finals. Jokic has never had an All-Star and has multiple times
@@hardwoodthought1213 you gotta admit joker has a better team build around his play style . I just want to be clear that the sixers owner doesn’t run the organization well. Look at the history if you don’t believe me. . I do fault Embiid but he doesn’t get all the blame I think he gets 40% and front office gets 60%. Embiids issue is he’s mental toughness in playoffs or lack there of but sixers are frustrating franchise to play for. We gotta stop giving these team managers a pass for bad management. They wasted a lot of iverson prime as well. Tried to do it with Barkley lol
In the blame pie it's definitely not all on Embiid. I'd say 55% front office, 15% injury luck and 30% Embiid
I'm a Pistons fan and will say with a straight face that Philly's front office has been worse the last 10 years than Detroit's. And that's not even counting the Fultz trade.
If they hadn't gotten super lucky with Maxey I think more people would see just how bad it's been.
But Embiid has real limitations in his game and it doesn't hold up in the playoffs. He's like Harden in that he exploits defenses in ways that disappear as you get deeper in the playoffs and he doesn't want to do any of the hard stuff, the selfless stuff.
What happened to Bill? It's only been 10 years since I first listened to him and he looks like John Daly before he quit drinking.
Father Time is undefeated. Bill is in his fifties now.
Ryen looks way older
The light at the end of the tunnel is Walton on the Celtics. The difference is Walton already had a ring as the best player on a title team.
Is that your opinion? Because I'd venture to say a lot of folks don't share it.
@@joeg2258 you don’t believe Walton was the best player on the Blazers title team???
Or you don’t believe Embiid could win a ring as a sixth man late in his career?
@@havok6280 no I'm saying you have your opinion. I don't feel Embiid will hold up long enough and won't win a ring anywhere if he's not healthy
@@joeg2258 Walton wasn’t healthy when he won with the Celtics. He was a bench player for a reason.
@@havok6280 I never even mentioned Walton's name. I did however mention Embiid. I don't feel like his NBA career will wind down with him coming off of a bench and winning a title
A healthy Embiid is the best center. He keeps on having injuries shit is crazy his luck is trash
"Healthy Embiid" is basically "Healthy Derrick Rose" at this point
Still not better than Jokic.
He gets a pass for being a mentally weak player. He knows how to lose, and how to give up. The eyes don’t lie in big games, and he shows weakness in some of the biggest moments consistently…fear and uncertainty.
It’s not just a physical story with him. He just isn’t made up of the qualities that make great players, namely, the ability to be a killer when things get tough.
14:06 HELL NO
Don' t forget "The Process" where the whole franchise focused on losing, losing, losing. Losing coach, Losing GM who don't help Simmons get better and mentally tougher, don't do their homework on Fultz and don't develop him when he's struggles. Embid, and maybe Maxie are the ONLY positive things to come out of Philly in 12 years. Then they trade Simmons for Harden and Harden for picks. His supporting cast has been doo-doo ever since he's been in the league.
Reasons why Embiid struggles in the playoffs
1. Playing below your size and settling for jumpers (as he was a forward or shooting guard)
2. Not having a go to reliable effective move offensively (like Jokic, Olajuwon or Kareem)
3) the game in the playoffs is way more physical than in the regular season where defenders can hold you and grab you.
4) the game is reffed differently, less superstar calls and free throws, a skill that Embiid has mastered beyond other superstars.
4. Opposing teams scheme for you and scout your weaknesses unlike in the regular season. You aren't forced into your worse tendencies in a regular season game.
5. Every possession matters in the playoffs and your mistakes are exacerbated. The margins for error are tinier.
6. Pressure, nervousness are real in the NBA. The playoffs are not like NBA 2k where players perform like in the regular season.
Joel Embiid and Houston James Harden are very similar players in the sense that they are unstoppable scoring machines in the regular season.
In the playoffs their game is easy to pick apart with physical defense and less free throw reliance.
and if you would have included his injuries it wouldnt sound like hate - not that injuries are an excuse but they are reality so talk about them
@@denigster
In my view the impact of injuries is a bit overblown. Here's why.
1. Most NBA players are not at full strength in the playoffs. Jokic had a wrist issue last year, kawhi was not healthy in 2019 when he won.
2. If you are cleared to play chances are you are not compromised to the point to be ineffective. That's a reason why in today's climate of load management and players health Paul George didn't play in last year's playoffs even though he technically could have.
3. Most of the flaws I see in Joel's game have nothing to do with limited speed. His game is not like Curry when he got hurt in 2016 who had lost mobility and speed required to run around screens and shoot.
Embiids struggles come from the reasons I stated above. He is a limited playmaker in the half court, he doesn't have a go to move that is reliable, his offense can be disrupted by good defenders since in the regular seasons you are not allowed to touch scorers like him.
Very accurate take. Although whilst Harden has collapsed far too often, we can’t act like he never played well. He had many great series and was the best player on multiple conference finals teams in a stacked conference, Embiid can’t even claim that or one dominant playoff series
@@johnbarkley925I think the injuries have definitely affected him but more on defense than offense but I agree with pretty much everything you said
Much like Harden, his game is designed to find and exploit vulnerabilities in regular season defenses. He's an 82 game player (or 64 in his case) not a 16 game player
Two areas that really hurt him:
1) Conditioning. He's just not in good enough shape. He's the modern day Shaq in that respect. He's slow to get back on defense and doesn't run on offense and doesn't want to leave the paint on defense. And as you alluded to, that stuff gets magnified in the spring
2) He doesn't like contact. Obviously the jump shooting is a downstream effect but he also doesn't work off ball to get good position. If you watch AD or Jokic or Shaq it's really noticeable how Joel doesn't frequently get quick seals or good post position
*****
I honestly feel bad for him because if he came along in 1980, 1990, 2000 he'd be even better than he is because none of his weaknesses would be weaknesses. He could isolate to his heart's content without having to worry about these exotic doubles and rotations he sees in 2024. On defense there'd be no one to pull him out of the paint and get him in rotation.
I think pretty much every big in NBA history would be worse in this era and have similar issues to Joel, especially dealing with the double teams. (Except (young) Sabonis and KG)
Bro you mentioned his team or scheme not once do you even think about basketball
He’s more like McGrady
Pat Ewing like career
Ewing at least made multiple deep playoff runs. Joel was better during the regular season though
To be fair, Ewing was usually available for the playoffs despite the injuries and the only teams that stopped him from 1991-1994 were Jordan’s Bulls and Hakeem’s Rockets.
Joels career to this point screams Walton v2...most dominant player who most likely will be remeberd for his health or lack thereof...hope he can find his ring to help keep history on him not a total shoulda coulda...
I would trade him for a haul if possible. They are not winning a championship with him as the team.
Since he was drafted Embiid has missed literally almost half the total possible games played.
His legacy is being part of one of the worst organizations with some of the worst coaches and most fraudulent teammates of all time. If anything, it just shows that it hurt him to be loyal to the team which is sad.
He’s just too good that’s the problem. A healthy embiid is a legit championship.
He’s either never healthy or always under performing it matters. You are basing him being ‘too good’ on what? The regular season?
@@hardwoodthought1213 if he’s performing like this at 75% health, he would be unstoppable even in the playoffs. His game is actually a half court, playoff style game. This environment benefits him. Jokic himself has said that Embiid is his toughest challenge.
@@him4882 Again, what are you basing this on? Because his game come playoff time has never translated, so on what planet is his game ‘built’ for the playoffs? His game is built for the regular season when teams try less, fouls get called more, teams scheme less, double less, with no stakes. When it matters he hasn’t had a single notable series at 30 years of age.
@@hardwoodthought1213 he’s been hurt every single year. We have not seen a healthy embiid playoff run over the last 4 years. If you want to talk injuries that’s another discussion. But his talent is undeniable. But I guess you know more than Jokic who has to go up against him!
Maybe if he didn’t spend all season falling every time he drives to the rim. Maybe his body wouldn’t be broken down by the time playoffs come. It’s gotta take a toll when you are that big and falling down all the time.
This isn’t a slight at his foul baiting either. But someone that big constantly picking himself off the ground has got to take a toll over the years
Why would LA entertain trading AD for Embiid? How did that even become a talking point 😂 AD gets banged up and has nagging injuries while Embiid is on the verge of shortening his career with long term injuries
Embiid wants to go all out to win mvp every year, which results in him getting hurt EVERY year.
I’ll also add that he shouldn’t have won the mvp over joker.
that was a travesty
@@ChryskylodonInstitute what said was that joker had it locked up till the last month when media all of a sudden started saying “can joker by the first back to back to back mvp winner since bird? Bron didn’t do it, Greek didn’t do it.” And later that week it was a 2 man race all of a sudden with Joel with a slight lead and joker needs to do something historic for him to win the mvp for a straight 3rd time.
@@pooksfaamausili6540 Jokic was the MVP over Embiid every month of the season except one. But somehow Embiid's ONE month was considered greater than Jokic's 7. Embarrassing.
@@SchulzEricT I don’t even think the one month was better if anything it was a draw. But makes worst is that narrative was never there until they saw the historical mark it would leave on the game. Then guys like Chris brussard and Kendrick Perkins going on live tv to argue against joker. Saying he won it as a sixth seed his first mvp, Embiid is having a legit mvp caliber season. For one that’s fine embiid having a great year, was it better than joker? No. Plus like stat watching yeah his first mvp wasn’t super impressive until you add context, Murray out the whole yr and porter miss like 3/4 of the year. Like it’s crazy how they just move the goal post
Really sad that Simmons and Russillo both let themselves get bullied into voting Embiid for MVP last year. Zach Lowe too.
The biggest MVP robbery of this century and the subsequent Jokic playoff demolition job, with yet another Embiid round 2 choke job, could not have been more embarrassing for them.
The biggest mvp robbery was the mvp that Nash got over Kobe in 2006
@@KobeisJordans Maybe but I think I disagree. Nash actually had quite a few similarities with Jokic. Extremely efficient individual scoring and improved all the players around him e.g. their eFG%. And both of their teams were top seeds that fell off a cliff without them.
I know a lot of the advanced stats at the time were in favour of Lebron more than anyone for MVP that year but it would be interesting to see what Nash's on-off splits were. Bet they were pretty good.
But, yeah, Kobe, Nash, Lebron and Dirk probably all had shouts. Unlike last year when all indicators pointed to Jokic.
Epitome of voter fatigue. Embiid was far more worthy this season prior to the injury.
@@KobeisJordans06 wasn’t close to a robbery. Nash went to a team and with the exact same roster and coach won them 33 more games. Then people claimed he’d fail the year after by losing Johnson to FA and STAT to injury. He lost 2 games more than the year before.
@@hardwoodthought1213 exactly. Nash improved that team in a way that people still find difficult to quantify.
Embiid isn’t a great player. Great players are made in the playoffs.
As a laker I would not want Embiid over Davis. Davis has been more healthy than Embiid and also has a been a much better playoff performer
He’s Odom w better medical care.
Even if you took the injuries out of it, Embiid has been cursed. The 76ers made boneheaded decisions like way overpaying Tobias Harris, and letting Jimmy Butler go.
There's also the Ben Simmons situation, which is unlike anything I've ever seen in my 25 years watching basketball. You have #1 pick who doesn't have career-ending injuries, he's entering his prime, and then decides he no longer wants to play. Unfortunately for Embiid, this came just 1 year into Simmons' 5 year extension.
The Harden thing was kinda bad too. I still think the 76ers were right in getting him and getting rid of Simmons... but Harden at that stage in his career wasn't gonna make you into a contender even with a healthy Embiid.
I get that Embiid's health is a problem, but I still feel he has plenty of valid excuses for not making more noise in the playoffs.
They picked Ben over Jimmy because Jimmy said I'm not resigning if he's here. (Which really should have been the first sign to trade Ben.)
They paid Tobias market value. You can think he's not worth it but he was getting that contract from someone and they couldn't lose him *and* Jimmy after giving up assets for them
But yeah Embiid has had horrible luck. The Simmons and Fultz situations are both so bizarre and unprecedented
He was constantly screwed by his front office. The drafting was legitimately awful -- except Maxey who was a lucky pick -- and I think trading away Mikal Bridges is one of the 5 worst trades in NBA history. It was completely illogical at the time. Bridges was an *IDEAL* fit and filled a need. And Daryl f**ked Embiid by insisting on Harden when he should have been trying to get Haliburton instead
Don't think Embiid can win a title as a 1st option. His body has never been able to hold up consistently (and it ain't gonna get better now that he's in his 4th decade of life) and he just doesn't play well enough as the main guy when the spotlight is on to make a deep playoff run. They need to sign another elite player to play alongside Maxey and reduce Joel's minutes/offensive load.