Fox Proframe helmet review: crash tested & failed!
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- www.crosstraini... Our Fox Proframe MIPS helmet split after a mild impact. We are not having a good run with helmets lately. Regular viewers will remember the strap pulled off my three year old Suomy due to a corroded bracket. A riding buddy then checked his very expensive Leatt helmet and found a heavily rusted bracket at 13 old months old. And our ensuing vids had similar responses from guys with helmets such as Airoh, Oneal, Acerbis, Just1, Kali, Fox, and even Bell. So lets get this Fox Proframe helmet review underway. My latest problem? I was well within the warranty period when this Fox Proframe full face helmet cracked completely through the EPS liner after a mild impact against a dirt bank. Now while it is a mountain bike helmet, it complies with the relevant downhill mountain bike racing standard and is rated for up to 250G impacts... essentially the same impacts as motorbike helmet standards. Now at some point the Fox Proframe full face polystrene foam is designed to compress to absorb life threatening impacts, but not a mild impact against a dirt bank that didn't even lead to a concussion.
I emailed Fox advising them we are very concerned about helmet safety and will be doing a Fox Proframe MIPS helmet review on this. They asked me for detailed images of the split helmet. They also said they could forward any questions to the relevant department within Fox. I emailed them a detailed video of the damage... along with these questions, asking what sort of testing they conduct themselves, and whether they think a mild impact should be able to completely split the helmet. All for inclusion in a Fox Proframe review.
One of the applicable standards states the Fox Proframe helmet is tested to 250g with a curbstone anvil test. Is there a reason for the helmet liner to crack completely through with a very mild impact?
Can you advise on the test samples for your cycling helmets? E.g. are samples just sent to the certifying authority? Or are helmets also tested randomly during manufacture?
In this case the helmet began at one of the thinnest parts of the helmet liner. Are the impact tests for relevant helmet standards only conducted on the thickest part of the helmet liner, or also the thinnest?
Fox responded promptly saying my email had been sent to the relevant department. Ten days later I send them another reminder about the upcoming Fox Proframe helmet review but this time there's no response. After nine weeks I figure they aren't going to answer but if they do, I'll put their response in the video description or as a pinned comment. My concern is whether quality control issues mean that certain helmets aren't strong enough for the intended purpose. A quick google found this case where the chin bar broke and caused facial injuries in an allegedly mild crash. Apparently Fox did eventually respond four months later, asking for the helmet to be sent in for inspection. In fairness I have not seen reports like this in other Fox Proframe helmet reviews.
Also in fairness to Fox, I must say I was impressed with the first few months of using the Fox Airframe. Yes it's incredibly light and ventilated. It does have MIPS which is meant to reduce rotational forces in a side impact, although I think we need more rigorous testing to really validate the system. The Proframe definitely provides more protection than a normal bicycle helmet, but I think a lot less than a true down hill helmet. I suspect Fox could make it stronger though, given their website claims. Fox motorbike helmets? I've had a viewer report rust occurring in four Fox motorcross helmets. I am increasingly concerned about helmet safety nowadays and will contact some specialists in the helmet safety area for comment.
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OTHER FAILURES REPORTED BY VIEWERS "Just had a mild crash wearing a proframe. The foam cracked and split around the forehead area, didnt compress at all, and stratched my face up bad and cut deep enough for blood to run down my face in my hairline. I suffered no other injuries or scratches, and the bike was 100% fine. For a helmet to basically fall apart on such a mild crash and leave the rider bleeding from the helmet itself is horrible." - badbilly
"I also own this Profame helmet and had it split today right in the middle of the chin bar when my sister (117lbs) stepped on it by mistake... pretty disappointed with the helmet, not sure it would have kept me safe on even a minor bike accident." - ekis18
"I bought a Proframe 3 weeks ago, had my first crash in about 15 years yesterday. My helmet broke in exactly the same mode except the chin piece cracked as well. I seem to have a very minor concussion but interestingly there in no impact indicator point on the helmet other than a sand scuff as I landed in sand. I was shocked the helmet split literally half way around. I emailed fox today to voice my concern and will be surprised if I hear back. I’m an engineer and quality consultant so my education kicked in to say “wtf”. I absolutely love the helmet but very concerned about the safety of this design." - Richard Swan
"My 14 yrs son had a crash at a pumptrack with some serious consequences: concussion, maxillary sinus bone broken, his right eye is impacted. He is ok now, in positive recovery. He had the brand new Fox Proframe, bought a week earlier. I sent a message to FOX RACING customer service a week ago, not response whatsoever. My question is: How is it possible that chinbar can be broken the way, its moving inside helmet and crushing the face bones? At a pumtrack, NOT downhill ride, and by 110 pound boy. I have a huge doubts about the design of mounting of the chinbar to the main body of helmet. It didn't do the work, and even more, I have no idea how this design could stand it. The chinbar/helmet joint is very weak. The integrated chinbar is patent pending, is it really well tested?" Maon
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PLEASE NOTE: Some riders are saying 'the helmet did it's job and absorbed the impact'. Watch the video first. I have been researching helmets for years now, I was editor for a national brain injury magazine for 10 years, and I have serious misgiving about the quality of Fox gear overall. The quality of Chinese made helmets for MTB and motorbike riders needs to be discussed. Whether the helmet did its job is certainly up for debate. But we also are very concerned about Fox's very poor customer service when it came to responding (or NOT responding) to our concerns. Read below.
LONG TERM UPDATE: After making the vid I finally found the tiny print inside the helmet that says "MADE IN CHINA".😢 I sent a list of questions to Fox customer support who asked for photos, sent these to the relevant department and said I would get an answer soon. That was back in November 2019! Since then I have received no answers despite reminding them regularly. Six months later they finally respond and say they have been waiting for video evidence of my accident - something then never told me! Since then I've sent several follow up emails but nine months later and still nothing. If I ever get a response I will post it here...
10 MONTHS LATER, A REPLY!
Well it's sort of a reply, they did not answer most of my questions.
"Thank you for your patience with us at this time. Although you mentioned the crash/impact as mild, without an instrument that can validate the severity of the crash, we are unable to know the true details of the crash/impact. Any fall can result in catastrophic consequences depending on the physics involved and while it might seem inconsequential after the fact, there is always a possibility that the helmet prevented serious injury. We thank you for taking the time to write into us and apologize for the delay it took to provide you with this. Have a great day, and stay safe!
"
Fox Racing Customer Service
In the meantime I've been looking into the quality of Fox products and there's an incredible number of complaints compared to other brands. Their helmets are no exception. In one case a helmet strap came off after three rides because the stitching came undone. In other case, the steel buckles started rusting after only 10 hours of use. Please see this video: ua-cam.com/video/LPJIb_iZXmk/v-deo.html
It's made the same place as everything else. Make it somewhere else and the price goes up X 3. And consumers don't want that.
That cracking absorbs the energy, a motorcycle helmet shell flexes and the soft liner compresses when your head hits it.
The hard styrofoam being basically the shell cracks instead of flexing.
The newer RS and Bell spherical add a soft liner as well
STILL NO ANSWERS FROM FOX SUPPORT SINCE NOV 2019 (despite constant reminders)
I sent Fox a series of questions about this helmet after it split so easily. They said they would have answers for me soon. Despite numerous reminders, they simply don't respond now. This is very disappointing when there's potentially a major safety issue with this helmet.
In the meantime, another MB helmet manufacturer (who wishes to remain anonymous) said that in his opinion a helmet that is so light weight and has such large ventilation holes will probably have points of weakness where an impact in the wrong spot will crack the helmet easily... and the usual impact testing for the helmet standards may not pick this up. 😢 I am inclined to agree.
He also said that achieving such light weight often means using less foam but of a higher density, so that it can still meet the impact testing of the standards. But of course this means that head gets more knocked around in the process. As a result he thinks this helmet is unlikely to provide more protection than an everyday bicycle helmet, and certainly not that of a dedicated downhill racing helmet. For this reason his company has not tried to design a helmet like the Fox Proframe.
This is only an opinion of course. I'm still keen to see what Fox says. If they ever reply.
Prices go up while quality goes down. Seems to be a trend for EVERYTHING...
I totally agree with you Randy.
That's how they make money.
Just had a mild crash wearing a proframe.
The foam cracked and split around the forehead area, didnt compress at all, and stratched my face up bad and cut deep enough for blood to run down my face in my hairline. I suffered no other injuries or scratches, and the bike was 100% fine. For a helmet to basically fall apart on such a mild crash and leave the rider bleeding from the helmet itself is horrible.
Glad you didn't come off worse. I think there are enough cases like this to suggest something is seriously wrong with this helmet. Some viewers keep saying 'So the helmet collapsed and did its job, you survived didn't you?' but to date I haven't heard of any helmets that regularly seem to actually cut into flesh after breaking from mild impacts.
Check out the Virginia Tech helmet ratings. Although they have not tested full-face helmets, Fox helmets perform really well, and MIPS helmets are way safer than non-MIPS. Remember, passing crash tests means reduced kinetic energy to the brain, not that the helmet doesn’t dent or crack. It’s like the crumple zone in your car - the more deformation the more energy dissipated. I had a very hard head-first crash with my ProFrame a week ago and I’m extremely grateful for the protection it provided. As for the helmet, the front cracked like in this video, the top crushed, the MIPS liner sheared off its mounting tabs, and the chin bar broke in 3 places. I purchased a replacement ProFrame yesterday.
I bought a proframe 3 weeks ago, had my first crash in about 15 years yesterday. My helmet broke in exactly the same mode except the chin piece cracked as well. I seem to have a very minor concussion but interestingly there in no impact indicator point on the helmet other than a sand scuff as I landed in sand. I was shocked the helmet split literally half way around. I emailed fox today to voice my concern and will be surprised if I hear back. I’m an engineer and quality consultant so my education kicked in to say “wtf”. I absolutely love the helmet but very concerned about the safety of this design.
Glad you are okay, Richard. I figure you got yourself checked out medically? It takes a fair amount of G forces to cause concussion (although not so much under rotational forces). But this would still be far short of the 250G the helmet is rated for... near lethal impacts. It does seem strange the helmet cracks so easily. Would it just fly apart at the supposed 250G it's meant to be capable of handling? I think it would be good to provide your feedback on their Facebook page (you'll see mine there too). And if you are a member of any MTB forums or Facebook pages please share your case (and possibly my vid) to warn others. Please keep me posted on any answer you receive. facebook.com/FoxRacing/reviews/
I know some will say the helmet did it's job, why complain? But I agree with CTE, the helmet is supposedly rated to protect you from 250g impacts. Why is the helmet coming apart at much reduced impacts? I know within the motorbike community Fox is widely regarded as the terrible quality Chinese made products that rely on Fox's previous reputation to sell. I strongly suspect it's the same nowadays with their cycling gear too.
@@kencampbell6037 Agreed, Fox gear is widely seen as trash across the board. I know one dad who is very angry, the strap just fell of his kid's Fox helmet after three rides when the stitching came undone. Others are reporting rusted brackets on Fox helmets within months of buying them.
I would stress though not everyone finds their Fox gear terrible. Some are quite happy and report a few years of use with no issues. But it's the very high number of complaints compared to other brands that appears to indicate there is a serious quality control issue going on.
@@crosstrainingenduro I did get checked out after I got home and cleaned up. I didn't even realize the helmet had failed until the end of the ride. And I didn't even realize the full extent until this afternoon when i removed the MIPS liner and saw that the crack through the core extended notably further and wasn't visible from the outside. Absolutely beautiful helmet. Light and breathed well. But the idea that it is "downhill rated" has me confused/concerned.
Very nice, what sold me on the fox pro frame (MTB) was the weight (and price at the time). I have crashed (mild offs) a few times but there is no visible damage.
Great video. Thank you.
Great to hear it's been working for you, Ned. I'm sure these failures are a very low percentage but I'm surprised that Fox isn't showing more interest in discussing the problems.
Great to hear it's working for you, Ned!
I’ve crashed hard in a 6D ATR-1. Impacted on side of head and then skidded down gravel road a good ways on it. Saved my bacon. On a ATR-2 now. After your reports on helmet strap failures I’m keeping an eye on the rivets in case anything develops. So far so good. Got the ATR-2 shortly after they were released. It’s very disconcerting to see so many big name manufacturers having problems.
I like my Bell Moto 8 dirt bike helmet, light weight, comfortable, and it saved my head about a year ago on the MX track in a high speed crush. Plus, N.O.S Bell Moto 8s can be bought on clearance for only $150 usd.
I was in a motorbike store yesterday and noted that the Shoei helmets are still made in Japan. Bell have economized by manufacturing their helmets in China now but hopefully if they keep up the quality control standards this should be okay. Some of their helmets do have 'assembled in the USA' on them but a company spokesman did state manufacturing is in China nowadays. www.b4usa.com › bell-helmets
CROSS TRAINING ENDURO Assembled in the USA doesn’t mean the components were made in the USA. They were just put together here. Big difference on the components that break.
@@crosstrainingenduro Unfortunately, most of our consumer goods are made in China nowadays. I can only imagine that most of your riding gear was made in China.
Motorcycle and bicycle helmets are designed as a one impact use and to be replaced unlike their heavier much more expensive race car variants that are designed to be bounced around in a roll cage equipped vehicle.
Crocs and FOX. Outfit of the day 👊🤣 You're big sense of humor badass 🤣🤣🤣
I'm feeling the opposite way about the Poc Tectal Race Spin. I knocked myself unconscious on my bike recently and came round with 5 people around me. I inspected my helmet the following day and there doesn't appear to be any damage beyond superficial scratches to the shell. The spin pads had rotated maybe 20 degrees or so. Most of the right side of my head is badly bruise. I would have preferred the foam to compress to absorb some of the impact and write the helmet off, but the foam feels as hard as the shell when I tap my knuckles on it. I think there needs to be more scientific research and testing demanded of helmet providers. Maybe standards relating to rider weight etc. Poc did reply really quickly telling me the helmet worked and the damage might not be visible. Keep up the good work reporting and pushing for answers. We all want to ride safer.
A major problem with all current helmet standards is they are geared toward helping with lethal impacts e.g. 250G and higher. But concussion can occur at much lower G forces and your standard liner won't absorb these lower impacts. Some manufacturers are trying to address this with tricks such as dual or variable density liners. These are increasingly available in motorbike helmets, not sure about mountain bikes though. They certainly should become part of our current standards.
wow...that has just made me rethink getting this helmet....Thanks for the review dude.
I have been extremely disappointed with their after sales support. They promised a quick answer to my questions and I'm still waiting, despite sending regular reminders. I have also found out that almost all of their gear is made in China nowadays and that many report quality control issues with their boots, armour, helmets etc.
We don't get information like this ever. Only time you get this kind of stuff is if it happens to you or a friend. So Thank You
Our pleasure, RJG. Unfortunately the vast majority of 'reviews' are simply ads. We are staying independent so we can provide objective info and also call out manufacturers when we think they've dropped the ball (not sure if Fox have, we are still waiting for their reply). We discussed these issues in the industry in our new intro vid: ua-cam.com/video/bOVHi2f_WZ8/v-deo.html
Well it's not just a bicycle helmet, but an ultra lightweight one as well. I think playing with those margins you are increasing the likely hood of failure of a higher percentage than a more robust model. It could also very well pass the standard tests as those are controlled impacts in a specific area, making a lightweight helmet only concerned with passing at the minimum, which is what I would expect.
I've been reading up more about it and there is a fair bit of skepticism about how reliable the standards are, and also the amount of testing done AFTER approval with some of the standards...
How long did you have the helmet for? You know the foam will stiffen over time even if you don’t wear it, leading to failures like this. It seems the volume of helmets they have sold vs failed ratio is actually good.
As stated in the video, Matt, this occurred well within the one year warranty period. In any case, the helmet standards specify that the foam won't change over time... usually changes will only occur if exposed to solvents, certain other chemicals, or direct sunlight.
@@crosstrainingenduro the foam will deform over time. Essentially every time your head moves in the helmet you are compressing the foam. It’s likely the hit you took was harder than you realised it was. I would say the helmet has done what it was intended to do; save you from injury.
If the foam deforms over time it wasn't up to spec though, Matt. We are talking about the EPS liner which is rated to protection against 250G impacts under most helmet standards. The liner will not compress at all very high G forces are applied e.g. plenty of guys have been knocked out and received brain injuries and in some cases the foam has not compressed (this has been a serious issue and variable density liners have emerged to try and correct for this).
I've just been reading the most recent comments from Fox's Facebook feedback page. 🤦♂️ It should be stressed that some riders are happy with Fox products but there appears to be a very high number of complaints compared to other brands.
"$500 instinct boots are falling apart within one year."
I bought a V2 helmet which had rusted buckles with less than 10 hours of use"
"Very disappointed with their lack of response and customer service."
"Customer service don’t even exist."
"Received gloves with a hole in them.... No answers, no replies, Nothing. Its like of its a ghost company."
"Wish they’d respond to emails... a $100 sweater that fell apart after two washes."
"I‘m very disappointed... never received the parts.... still waiting for refund"
"The worst brand in the world".
"Motorbike helmet fading... Don’t buy their cheap china junk!"
"£140 helmet, 4 months broken already, sent numerous emails, no response back"
"Fox instinct boots, after 10 hours inside stitching is undone and straps/buckles breaking."
"Terrible customer service."
"I slipped kicking over my bike and the starter went went through the side of the boot"
"Customer service is a joke"
"The worst customer service I have ever experienced."
"Horrible experience with the German webshop... still waiting for the refund."
Fox's feedback rating has dropped to 3.1 out of 5 stars now. Read the feedback for yourself on the link below:
facebook.com/FoxRacing/reviews/
Kneepad snapper in half after a mild crash gloves broke after 3 months with several holes jacket ripped very easily and zipper fell apart
Was about to pull the trigger on this purchase until I watched this video. Thanks for the heads up, glad I didn't waste my money. Disappointed in Fox in their dealings with your queries.
I have found their customer service quite shocking in my case, Jeff. And if you look through online feedback many others do as well. Unfortunately most Fox products appear to be made in China now and there are many criticisms about a perceived drop in quality in recent years.
I have never been a fox fan and will never buy anything fox, I’ve seen way to many bad reviews on all fox gear, I’ll stick with fly although I know every brand has it’s issues
Their standards appear to have dropped over the years since they were taken over by a multinational corporation. ua-cam.com/video/LPJIb_iZXmk/v-deo.html
Fly has taken a similar road to Fox in getting their stuff made in China but the difference is they still care about quality control and most of their stuff is quite good. You can see this in their Facebook feedback rating from users. Fly gets 4.7 out of 5 stars overall. Fox Racing only gets 3.1 stars!
Fly has the worst helmets even for motocross
You would think for 400 +dollars for a proper full face helmet they would use strong alloys that don't rust or corrode. Protective equipment should have some sort of standard for what components can be made of.
Rusting brackets is common through many brands unfortunately, Aaron. I have just discovered it in my $400 Oneal carbon helmet after only six months of use. On a tiny label inside it says 'made in China'... no surprise.
I would also raise this issue with Fair Trading of what state you live in. It is something Fair Trading should take up given the claims made by the distributor. If the claims do not add up it could be found to be misleading and deceptive conduct in trade. ACCC may also take action.
Thank you for bringing us these warnings. Dodgy safety equipment hiding behind a high price tag is such a despicable thing to do.
Our pleasure, Freeman. However we still aren't certain if this is definitely a dodgy helmet... we are still waiting to hear from Fox although it's been a long time since they promised to get back to us. 😢
Agreed. Although I must stress in this case I'm not sure if the helmet is defective or not. But I thought Fox would at least want to answer my questions as it is a potential safety issue.
whoa, years later, i stumble acrross XTE and i see this guy on a mountain bike!?!? mind blown.
Helmets are supposed to deform upon impact no? Or was there something about the way this broke that was 'improper'?
Yes, similar to cars a helmet is meant to deform under a sufficient impact. As per the vid, my question is how did this split after such a a small impact. A helmet manufacturer who wishes to remain anonymous has said that in his opinion such a ventilated light weight helmet is going to have weak spots that will break if hit in the right spot... which may not be detected in testing for the helmet standard. 😥 He said it's only an educated guess but I'm inclined to agree. Hopefully Fox will eventually get back to me with their own answer. Still waiting!
Exactly as per the video... this was a mild impact against earth yet the helmet is supposedly rated to 250g. It should take a major impact before the EPS liner deforms or cracks.
Interesting.
I just bought one just wanting something a bit more than a standard MTB half helmet and it seems it meets that while being ventilated for desert and other high heat climates like I want.
I’ll keep an eye out for damage, but I always expect to replace a helmet even after a super mild fall that impacts the helmet itself.
You'll probably be happy with it then... it's certainly ventilated well.
I took a mild spill on my 450 at low speed rounding an off camber turn in the woods. Hit the side of my helmet on the hard pack and could not believe what I felt. I strongly feel that helmets should buffer the impact much better for the prices we pay.
It's an interesting point, Michael. The EPS liner demanded by the standards is only concerned with absorbing impacts that are likely to kill you e.g. over 250g force. But the chances of a brain injury increase from around 50g and on, but standards don't demand the EPS liner absorb smaller impacts. Some manufacturers use dual or variable density liners to try and help with this. 6D is probably the best example of something proven to work.
Thanks I'll look into 6D. Have you spent the equivalent of $600.00 U.S. on a helmet? I would like to know if its even worth it. I run Fox V1 V2, Answer helmets currently. These cost $200-$280 retail. They look good but I'm not convinced they'er the answer to that quick hit we've all had at one time or another. But that's why I watch and enjoy your vids. Practicing technique and being mindful of what I'm doing should win the day. 46 and riding the 2017 RMX450. A touch heavy, but what can a Suzuki guy do? Love it. @@crosstrainingenduro
This is really weird, it seems all my previous answers to comments here have been deleted! Is this some kind of UA-cam censorship?!
I never trusted a lot of these ultralight mtb helmets. I’ve cracked other brands. And if you’re clumsy putting them away like me sometimes a good fall from a shelf or the top of a car will crack them too. I prefer the hard shell BMX/DH helmets, which are really basically dirtbike helmets but a little cheaper. I’ve crash test a couple on Vert ramps and they saved my head and teeth 🦷. I know some really like that ultralightness but the way I am I’d need a new helmet every other week 😂.
For yours could it have been cracked before the crash? Maybe the crash made an already cracked split. Just with the above in mind it could have cracked at another time and you didn’t notice it. I’ve cracked similar helmets just knocking off the roof of a car when packing up.
If a properly certified helmet can crack just from falling off a shelf I suspect something must be going wrong. All helmet standards are most concerned about absorbing potentially fatal impacts e.g. the foam liner collapsing as you get over 200G impacts. Falling off a shelf is going to be way way lower than that. I can understand the outer shell cracking but not the EPS liner itself. However, I'm no expert on these issues so I will be discussing it with some specialists soon.
are helmets just getting worse in general?
Hard to say, Reece. The motorbike helmet standards are badly outdated. The European standard is the best one but it's still based on research from 1999 and we've learned heaps since then. The Aussie helmet specialists I chat with say helmets are getting safer overall because manufacturers are introducing things like MIPS, variable density liners, removable cheek pads etc. But issues like rusting brackets still occur due to cost cutting and stainless steel isn't required by any of the standards. And some standards don't require batch testing after the helmet has been approved, meaning that EPS liner (probably made in China) could vary in quality and fail... something I suspect may have occurred with my Fox mountain bike helmet. 😥
I spoke with Aussie helmet specialists who said overall they are getting better, actually. But certainly some seem to be below par...
I also own this profame helmet and had it split today right in the middle of the chin bar when my sister (117lbs) stepped on it by mistake... pretty disappointed with the helmet, not sure it would have kept me safe on even a minor bike accident.
I'm glad it happened this way and not while you were riding. But it strongly suggests something is wrong when the helmet standard they claim to meet says it will handle similar impact forces as a motorbike helmet - at least in some cases it clearly doesn't! Will you take this case to Fox and let me know what happens? They ignored my multiple messages for a long time until they eventually said they would do nothing. I urge you to leave feedback on their Facebook page: facebook.com/FoxRacing/reviews/
I'm not entirely sure if this is enough information for giving up on Fox. I mean, often only the unhappy customers write facebook posts on a brand site, and we don't know how many times these helmets worked as intended. I agree, their response times were terrible for you, but it could partially be because of all the legal procedures that comes with safety equipment. I'm not defending them, but without seeing the full image, i don't think it should be stated as a bad helmet or a bad brand.
Sure, i don't know how it would behave with that 250G impact, but after a crash you should replace the helmet anyways, no matter how much damage is visible. Is this cracking a problem, or a feature? Who knows.
I don't think this helmet could get wll the certifications without actually being good, the quality control with mass production is an other question. Helmets should be tested from time to time randomly from a factory, just to make sure it's still what they promised.
Thanks for the video and your work, always great to step back and think about things!
These are all very good point, Gyorgy. I did think long and hard before doing this video. It prompted me to look further into Fox products and the frequency of complaints strongly suggests that quality has dropped very signficantly in recent years across most, if not all, of their products. I would suggest having a look at the almost non-stop complaints on their Facebook feedback section (where somehow Facebook still give them a 5 out of 5 rating somehow!): facebook.com/FoxRacing/reviews
And here is our look into other Fox products: ua-cam.com/video/LPJIb_iZXmk/v-deo.html
I went with Leatt 1.0 DH so far i lky cons i see are the adhesive on cheek pads melting in summer heat.
The foam shell is more glossy and softer than I had before, helmet has more flex in the than my 2016 Fox RPC, its alot lighter, and has the rotation 360 thing. Breathability is decent, but still gets hot in the summer, but any helmet would.
The helmet has an insect net which is a must, it's plastic mesh, not metal, so I guess it saves some weight. The helmet was cheap and was available in my size so went for it.
I would just keep an eye on the brackets that hold the straps, Johannes. Even their expensive GPX range can have these rust way sooner than they should. Unfortunately Leatt makes almost all their products in China. ua-cam.com/video/VLjEHmj62LU/v-deo.html
@@crosstrainingenduro I just got which ever helmet that would fit and was in stock, and did not look like a bad choice, but I watched that vid, forgot leatt was included, but I inspect, wash my helmet. And will continue to do so, but I might order another helmet, if I can find one that I like in my size.
@@crosstrainingenduro how do I tell if it's stainless steel?
I don't know Johannes. Some guys use magnets but different types of stainless will somtimes be magnetic, other times they won't.
I ordered the Fox Dropframe Pro after the reviews of Virginia Tech. But unfortunately it was too tight on my head. So I wanted to order this proframe. Which one do you prefer then?
Given the way production quality and customer support from Fox have plummeted in recent years, I would suggest at checking other brands. Look at the non-stop complaints on the Facebook feedback (despite somehow having a 5 out of 5 rating!). facebook.com/FoxRacing/reviews/ And see this video about their overall product 'quality' and read all the viewer comments. ua-cam.com/video/LPJIb_iZXmk/v-deo.html
@@crosstrainingenduro how do I know which brands are not Chinese? Which brands to recommend?
It says where on the inside label. And usually on the box too. I've covered all motorbike helmets made in China in one of my vids. I can't help you with MTB helmets though.
I've seen some pretty average results from the Fox V2 mx helmets but was considering buying a fox mtb drop frame lid for the weight.. not anymore!
What were the problems you saw with the V2, Justin? Generally I've heard they are okay except for the steel brackets prematurely rusting.
Thanks for the report seems like Fox need to up there game !! when you take time to report on a product and give genuine and honest feedback lack of response is insulting and damages a brand ! I have only had great experience with the fox Mx lids and have found them to be A1 hopefully they can bring the MB products in line with those standards !! Great vids as always respect from Ireland Mikee
Thanks, Mikee. I hope all the helmet manufacturers can lift their game... I suspect Shoei and Arai are the only ones who don't need to but you certainly pay for the privilege of a helmet made in Japan! I must say though, generally helmets are safer then used to be. Even the best helmet standard (EC22) is still based on 1999 research and innovations like MIPS and variable density liners are being introduced by manufacturers. I just hope they can lift their quality control too.
Yes, generally their dirt bike helmets seem to be fine although some say the steel brackets can rust quite quickly. Just keep an eye on them!
Excellent video! I enjoyed the effort you put forth to educate yourself and your audience in the safety quality of our gear. I'm disappointed that these manufacturers can charge so much $$ on a safety product and give back such little quality. Sounds like they are in the market of selling stylish illusions.
Shared :)
Cheers, Zach. I should add that possibly this is the best that can be expected of this helmet, but given Fox haven't replied to my questions I felt this video was worth putting out there. I've had quite a few very experienced downhill riders and even a helmet manufacturer say that this may be the best you can expect as there will always be a trade off between safety and weight e.g. lightness and ventilation mean keeping the EPS liner very thinner (and also harder to still meet the standard) and all the ventilation holes make it easier to break. Fox do seem to stress the protection angle in their promotions....
'Designed to seamlessly blend the worlds of protection and breathability...'
'...a new era of confidence inspiring performance....'
'....offers full face level coverage......'
I still don't know if the helmet was actually defective or not Zach, but certainly Fox's lack of response to a possible safety issue isn't great. 😢
I have never had a issue with buckle nor the bracket of 2015 Fox Rampage Pro Carbon, two 2016 Fox Rampage Pro Carbon helmets,
but 2015 Fox Rampage Pro Carbon had loose shells, it squeaked like a screaming cat, it got annoying constantly hearing the rubbing and squeaking sounds, it was completely loose in there.
then I got 2016 model and it eventually happen to it but it took a long time, instead of weeks or months it took more like a year or two I don't rember exactly.
More on the fox helmet I used in my review: wp.me/p60aTF-1NL
but the adhesive on the chinbar failed so I had to glue the plastic strips back on.
the strap cover got worn out on one of them pretty fast, the seam failed.
cheek pads got permanently compressed after few months, I had to get new ones, now all are worn out, so chin bar hits my face, and helmet moves more, but I would need more pads, but it was time to retire it a logn time ago, but I need a new helmet so I think I will go for Kali Shiva 2.0
It's sad to see that a previously high quality USA brand has just resorted to using their former reputation to sell cheap gear made in China, Johannes. I've been looking into the quality of all their motorbike gear and the complaints about boots, armour, jerseys, gloves and pants are endless. 😢
@@crosstrainingenduro I didn't know it was that bad.
Arai is still my favourite helmet brand & Gaerne for boots.
Can't do much better than that
CROSS TRAINING ENDURO just got a pair of SG 12s for Christmas. I’ve decided to ditch the SIDIs
I broke my Proframe on my first ride!! Never ever again with FOX. A helmet designed for new full-sus wannabe enduro riders on mild mild xc trails.
Their target demographic for this helmet is probably dentists who have a 10k $ s works but can’t ride around a turn without getting scared
I've had terrible customer service in the Moto industry myself. Alpinestars being the worst. However I have had great customer service with Bell helmets.
I know Alpinestar have cut costs by manufacturing their Tech 10 and Tech 7 boots in Croatia nowadays instead of their home country Italy (I heard the Tech 3 is made in China but can't confirm that). There's no mention of Croatia on their website of course. I figure they have been cost cutting with customer service too. 😢
@@crosstrainingenduro they weren't even willing to allow me to mail them something that was less than 3 months old for them to analyze it. Good thing is there are plenty of other companies to buy from.
CROSS TRAINING ENDURO Hey! I’m half Croatian...0K, I see your concern. 😂
Hope this gets lots of views, and subsequent attention from appropriate parties. Cheers!!
IMO the material is very prone to oxidation and gets weaker over time. My 2 year proframe cracked in 2 places (chinbar) just from tapping it on the wall by accident (!@##@#!!). The main shell seems intact. Very well vented but you pay the price at some point.
I haven't looked into the MTB helmet standard but I wouldn't be surprised if there are no tests for the chin bar... it took quite a while for motorbike helmet standards to address this. I have been looking further into the overall quality of Fox gear and they are getting a very poor reputation in recent years since most of their manufacturing is in China now. ua-cam.com/video/LPJIb_iZXmk/v-deo.html
thats a really cool speed meter. Which model is that?
Also its 2021 now, did you got any update from fox? Should I avoid this helmet in 2021?
Personally I would avoid all Fox products, after their poor response I investigated many of their products and checked feedback from users. ua-cam.com/video/LPJIb_iZXmk/v-deo.html Fox did eventually respond, I reported this in the pinned first comment....
10 MONTHS LATER, A REPLY!
Well it's sort of a reply, they did not answer most of my questions.
"Thank you for your patience with us at this time.
Although you mentioned the crash/impact as mild, without an instrument that can validate the severity of the crash, we are unable to know the true details of the crash/impact. Any fall can result in catastrophic consequences depending on the physics involved and while it might seem inconsequential after the fact, there is always a possibility that the helmet prevented serious injury. We thank you for taking the time to write into us and apologize for the delay it took to provide you with this. Have a great day, and stay safe!"
Fox Racing Customer Service
In the meantime I've been looking into the quality of Fox products and there's an incredible number of complaints compared to other brands. Their helmets are no exception. In one case a helmet strap came off after three rides because the stitching came undone. In other case, the steel buckles started rusting after only 10 hours of use.
@@crosstrainingenduro Thank you for answering. So which brands do you recommend? Is leatt any good? Could you help me choose mtb fullface helmet for bike parks?
For MTB I don't know what is best. From my experience, I'm not very happy with Leatt, all their gear is made in China and we had major issues with a rusting helmet (see our video). Another guy had a low speed crash which broke his chinbar and it gouged his face open, causing very expensive surgery. 😢
Are downhill helmets OK for enduro (dirt bike) riding?
Personally I wouldn't recommend it. They are usually a lot lighter so I figure there has to be some kind of compromise with overall protection.
Thais have the right approach to helmet damage.
....they dont wear them to avoid damaging them.
🤣
the helmet isnt rated to take 250g impact.. the rating simply means that the helmet shouldnt transmit more than 250g of force to your head. the fact that the foam liner cracked suggest it did its perfectly. the impact force has to be dissipated before the energy reaches your head the foam cracking suggest it obsorbed the brunt of the force. its a mtb helmet not a dot approved helmet thats designed to take much more abuse
Btw DOT standard is a joke. Look it up here on YT
It'd be good to have a video of the crash, "mild" is very subjective and if you landed on a sharp stone or something it could be justified.
Unfortunately I don't Luke, I only wear the camera for dirt bike riding, not mountain biking. But it was just an earth embankment with no stones or outcrops of any kind.
I think you should expect to get one good crash with an ultralight helmet then you should replace the helmet. Especially the lightest helmet they have ever created. You aren't paying money for the best protection, you're paying for the lightness and the airflow.
I always heard you should replace your helmet if you drop it from waist high even with no visible damage the foam can get micro cracks then not hold up to a harder hit later. (who knows if that is just marketing wank🤷🏿♂️)
At least every 2-3 seasons if you handle it rough or crash often and want to be sure you're protected.
I used to think the same thing about replacing a dropped helmet, Jason. But I had a lot of discussions with our leading helmet specialists and they said you only need to get your helmet inspected or replaced after big impacts. The EPS liner is designed to absorb impacts up to 250g and simply dropping a helmet should be under 50g. It might crack the outer shell of course, which is another issue.
Was going to buy one today but decided not to after seeing this- $400 is too big a risk. Deal breaker for me is their lack of response. Thanks for the video
There are certainly riders out there who are happy with their helmets, Grant. But yes, that lack of response was terrible. And if you check their Facebook feedback you'll see it happens all the time. I was stunned that they had no interest in even looking into this case. I know other manufacturers usually want to see the alleged faulty helmet and conduct tests to see if they got the manufacturing wrong...
Can we see you do some reviews of troy lee helmets
No, it would mean scrapping my current helmet, use the Troy Lee for at least a year then do a review. I can barely afford new gear as it is. 😢 We did a recent vid about how to research stuff for yourself though.
Was thinking about buying one of these as they’re on sale at the moment. Might hold off after this video though
I'm sure there are plenty of happy customers out there, Jake. But as long as they don't expect more from this helmet than you would from a very basic road riding helmet. And the website claims the integrated chin bar offers full face level coverage... but if you read online comments about the failed chin bar many felt it was nowhere near the protection provided by proper full face helmets.
I have had a lot of informed people emailing me, including a helmet designer. They suggest the helmet is probably no better than your cheap average road cyclist helmet and they suggest don't use it for any serious mountain bike riding... only for cruising around streets and easy dirt tracks.
You’ve been fooled by clickbait videos - helmets are one-crash items to save your most vital organ. I have done my research before and after a major crash with my ProFrame. This is a very good helmet for trail/enduro riding. The more deformed the helmet the better.
Not a mild crash I reckon. That foam takes a big hit to break it. No concussion as it prob saved you.
This is bunk. The helmet is INTENDED to show any damage. Replace it when you crash and hit your head. Their dropframe pro is highest on the Virginia Tech helmet studies which are tests using high quality methods and track the amount of likeliness to reduce concussion.
Everyone who complains about these helmets are stating the helmet was damaged on impact. That's exactly what is supposed to happen, it's intended to save your head once, then you replace.
The dropframe pro is a different helmet, you are comparing apples and oranges. Of course helmets are meant to show damage. And yes of course you replace them afterwards. But I've spoken with helmet specialists who agree something aint' quite right with these. And pair that with the fact that Fox quality has plummeted since most of their manufacturing has been moved to China. I suspect you are just being brand loyal and not actually thinking critically.
damn, I have 2 fox helmets V1 and V2 and that makes me worry... soon we'll have 2 choices really Shoei or Arai :)
Robson Enduro i crashed with a fox flux (i know i need a full face) i broke both my wrists and nose but I think the helmet did it’s job as I walked away with nothing changed to my head except the nose. MIPS definitely helped 100% but it didn’t brake so yeah tough nut I guess
The dirt bike helmets generally seem to be okay although some owners have reported the steel brackets rusting prematurely... ua-cam.com/video/LPJIb_iZXmk/v-deo.html
It's amazing how much we spend on these helmets thinking they are the best protection money can buy. I wonder how many pros suffer cheap workmanship or injuries sustained believing they have the best?
David Knight quit his sponsorship by Airoh after the straps pulled off due to corroded brackets twice! One was only three months old, the other was six months old.
too bad I can't return mine, it's a pricy helmet so hopefully it'll be fine.
I just read a dude lost his best friend, he died with this helmet on. I posted your video on gmbn Facebook group, sad story.
Very sad to hear, Johannes. 😢
@@crosstrainingenduro facebook.com/groups/GMBNCommunity/permalink/1294746154240806/ many still belive these helmets are great, but many have had same experince as you.
I know some viewers are saying 'the helmet did its job, stop complaining'. But I'm not sure if they are even watching the vid. They are supposedly rated to protect from 300G impacts which is around the lethal range for brain injuries. That is when usually the helmet will begin to disintegrate to absorb the deadly impact... not falling against a dirt embankment from almost a standstill. Could it have been a freak occurrence? Possibly. But I've been investigating Fox products widely since then and the complaints about their Chinese-made gear are extremely common. It's cause for concern.
@@crosstrainingenduro I won't get another helmet from Fox. So far shiva 2.0 looks promising, probably will be quite warm, but so was my Rampage Pro but for most breathable dh helmet Ixs looks super ventilated but I don't know how durable it is.
@@crosstrainingenduro yea their comments make no sense. Some ppl don't understand such things. I suspected this just by looking at the helmet. I wish I was wrong.
So the lid cracks, the rider doesnt suffer concussion and everyone is happy. Seems like the lid did a good job to me
Watch the vid, I explain why I am concerned about this helmet
Are your crocs clipins or gumbi rated?
aiming for both... 😁
😂
Have been running the Fly racing line of helmets for the last 8 years and I have not had one issue👌i love my f2 carbon I ride with now👍 Maybe should give a shot✌️
doesn't matter how many years you have ridden with your helmet, what counts is how many trees have you butt head in total?
Looking into Fly helmets now, I suspect that will be my next choice
Wow. That helmet definitely doesn't look up to the job. I think I might ditch mine and get something more heavy duty and safer for when I hit the down hill trails.
I know it could have just been a freak occurrence, but the complaints I see about other Fox helmets (MTB or dirt bike) makes me think it could well be a quality issue. And it took Fox over a year, and constant reminders, to eventually say they wouldn't look at the helmet let alone replace it. And still didn't answer the questions I put to thtem.
I think this also highlights a massive problem with the downhill helmet standard. If a flimsy helmet like this can pass the tests, it is that the tests are set too low. Its a shame a cheap piece of light weight Styrofoam can be sold as a $400 helmet promising serious protection when in reality you are just putting your head into a virtual egg shell....
What grinds my gears it's fox are so big that even if they let a few slipped through of piss poor quality they sell so many they won't care bit like apple and there iPhone , it's a piece of fragile junk , but while people continue to buy it in there hundreds of thousands they don't care when Mr Joe blogs phone breaks for no reason , same here , if there were a small company wanting to make the best product they would of got back to you in a matter of days , modern world for ya 🤷🏻♂️
Sad to see the lack of response to so many complaints on Fox's feedback page on Facebook
Just ordered a troy lee.
Probably not a good idea to keep a helmet for 3 years. They are replaceable and your head is not.
That is an interesting discussion too, Ben. It was originally Snell who liaised with helmet manufacturers to come up with replacing your helmet every five years... of course the manufacturers want us to buy new helmets lol. If not exposed to sun or chemicals, the EPS liner has an indefinite lifespan, it just depends on the quality of all the other bits as to how long it will last. However, our leading helmet specialists here say it's not a bad idea to replace them around that often to take advantage of various safety features being introduced....
CROSS TRAINING ENDURO that sounds logical to me. My buddies and myself probably average a mild crash with head impact every 3 rides and a fast crash with head impact every 7-10 rides or so. Even if eps doesn’t break down on a shelf, it will on the trail.
Thanks for the vid. Fox was on my shopping list but now I'll never buy Fox.
In fairness I should say some of their gear is possibly still decent but overall the brand has really dropped badly. Just look at the consistently bad feedback on their Facebook (although strangely Facebook recently upgraded their feedback score from 2.7 to 5 out of 5!). facebook.com/FoxRacing/reviews/
Far out what a lacklustre response!
It's very poor. I've been watching the feedback section on Fox's Facebook page and it's filled with people complaining about poor quality products AND the lack of response from customer service.😢
Nice video keep up with best vids on yt
If the expensive helmets are getting worse then just start buying the cheap ones. At least that extra cash in the wallet will help pay the medical bill. Id feel like a real dickhead if I paid $700 for a helmet that offers no better protection. My LS2 has taken a beating in crashes and no signs or rust anywhere. Spent the extra money on a new GPS.
Out of interest, a viewer just told me he checked his LS2 helmet and found the brackets anchoring his straps have rusted. 😢 It obviously won't happen to everyone (I hope) but worth just checking occasionally.
@@crosstrainingenduro just checked. They still look like new. The helmet is 7 years old. Funny enough I’m binge watching helmet reviews on UA-cam tonight looking for a new one. Sadly I’m afraid a new $750 isn’t going to hold up like my old workhorse LS2 MX 453 but I can’t find clear replacement visors anymore.
i was about to buy a fox proframe. there is no way i will be buying one now! what a pathetic company
Their lack of response has been terrible, Cory. But I'm still reserving judgement on the actual helmet until I see the responses to my questions. Quite a few experienced mountain bike riders and even an MTB helmet designer have told me this is only a very basic helmet with about the same protection as a cheap everyday cycling helmet... it just has a chinbar added and the price inflated. If that's all it is meant to be, then that's fine. But the fact it complies with various MTB helmet standards suggests it should be stronger. Plus Fox's advertising blurb tends to reinforce this:
"...the Proframe Helmet ushers in a new era of confidence inspiring performance for the All Mountain and enduro mountain bike riders".
Not very confidence-inspiring performance in my experience!
no biggie its only your head.
TLD d3/4 best helmet!
250 gram impact.
😂
Total fail on the manufacturer, these things aren't cheap to purchase.
It doesn't look good at this stage. They did respond initially, but it now looks as though there won't be any more communication. I googled around and saw quite a few complaints about no response from Fox support but sadly that's pretty common right across the industry now.
@@crosstrainingenduro If they just replied in a timely manner & showed just the smallest bit of concern for the issue they would be miles ahead. In the long run this will affect them in their bottom line when we start purchasing from other newer up and coming companies that are empathetic to their customers feedback and product issues.
BoOoPp...u okay in your place?...bOoOpP...
You mean fires? The big ones are all at least 600 miles south of here.
@@crosstrainingenduro stay safe..bOoOpP
I find that there is a huge misconception behind the proper use of helmets. Helmets are made to withstand ONE impact and ONE impact only. Yes, therefore regardless of the result of the mild intact you endured the helmet should have been retired anyways. (this thought can even go as far as retiring a helmet if you drop it, though i dont agree to this extent). It is unsafe to continue daily use of a helmet after an impact has been made (regardless of the severity) due to the deformation of the EPS foam and inability to properly decelerate your head if a subsequent impact is made in the same spot. In your case, the helmet cracked making it visually obvious of the necessity to retire the Hemet which should have been done regardless of the visible nature of the helmet after the crash.
However, i do not respect the manner at which fox addressed your concern to them and wished they would have been more professional.
Arai forever.
Buy a 6D. You get what you pay for.
I've got one. ua-cam.com/video/NmqfwDNIV3Q/v-deo.html But I'm not going to wear that while I'm on a mountain bike lol.
I did quite a while ago. That's my helmet for faster dirt rides.
If you like the advanced 6D concussion mitigation system, they offer the same stellar technology in their line of mountain bike helmets as well.
not good
Nope.
It doesn't look that way...
Buy a motorcycle helmet.
Not ventilated enough for riding in our heat
I won''t buy fox
I agree with almost anything said or wrote here but in all fairness, helmets are and basically always have been guaranteed for one drop only. For sure, a small faceplant should not destroy it but a reasonable impact will crack or compress the inner foam and the sell if a weak point is hit. Read the papers that come with the helmet; I'm pretty sure that there should be some vague warning about this. What upsets me the most is that helmet doesn't cost them more than any other cheap kids helmet to make. Their mark-up is insane and they can't ever do proper customer service and heck, give occasional free replacements. to avoid loose their fox face....
actually in my discussions with helmet experts they said you need a serious impact before needing to replace the helmet. e.g. dropping it off a table will not affect the eps liner at all, it's designed to absorb 250g impacts which are potentially lethal! an impact resulting in some level of concussion is a good indication of a substantial impact that might have compressed the eps liner a bit. this is why we didn't put a warning in about this.