Check out this video next on Dr. Ambedkar's "new Buddhism", a movement against caste in India: ua-cam.com/video/qlH_qieCgCA/v-deo.html Consider joining us on Patreon if you find benefit in these videos, and get fun extras like exclusive behind-the-scenes videos, audio-only versions, and extensive show notes: www.patreon.com/dougsseculardharma 🙂
Caste does not belong to Bharat or India 👍🏼it's imposed by Britishers or Christian mentality. Stop defaming India 👍🏼caste is a European word. It's not Bhartiya or Indian 🙏🏻. Kindly Reeducate yourself 🔥🚩🌾👍🏼
@@jyotivyas9286 Cast is inherent and inextricable part of hinduism. So.. In order to save ur religion, u cant distort history. Btw, by the time of buddha, britishers didn't arrived at our shores. How they created cast then??? Buddha, Sant Kabir, Guru nanak, etc were people who condemned henious of Hinduism aka cast system, and they all were born before british invasion. So.. How cast is foreign invasion???
Caste comes from word Casta in Portuguese... it was imposed as an identity by britishes upon india during 1800s census... anyway ambedkars understanding of indian history is nothing but parroting British written history by Macaulays and notorious missionaries like Robert caldwell... ambedkar never learned sanskrit... he just had his understanding based on translated versions of missionaries and britishes...
I appreciate that you don’t run away from parts of the teachings that are complex. It’s easy to gloss over these things, but I always feel better for challenging myself.
Thanks Paul, yes I think it's not quite honest to leave out the difficult parts. That said, we all have our blind spots so should always be trying to learn.
It's great to see your personal contribution to this broad debate with these comparisons to early Buddhism. That's how each one of us can make change happen!
@@uilium As Doug mentioned in the video above, the Buddha did not want to go about protesting or changing the societal order of his time. Instead, he focused on establishing a SANGHA, where caste would have no role to play.
The Buddha was once called as a low caste by a Brahman. For this the Buddha replied 'Najaja wasalo hothi Najajja hothi Brahmano Kamano wasalo hothi kammano hothi brahmano' which translates to 'You do not become a Brahman (Nobel) with your birth nor does birth make you a low cast. It’s your own deeds(actions) that decide which'. (Dhammapada) Even according to the modern day behavioral psychologists, humans are not born either good or bad by nature, but are born neutral by nature. In another instance the Buddha was questioned why he ordained people from lower casts to which the Buddha replied that just like the water from different rivers which flow to the sea cannot be separated once they mix to the sea, once a person is ordained he becomes a 'sanga' (monk) who cannot be separated by caste.
Amazing. It's unfortunate that the liberals in ancient India like Buddha, Mahavira, Emperor Ashoka lost to racist orthodox elements like Manu. The caste system is the greatest shame in Indian history, one of the greatest in human history.
Manu was a Dravidian lol. He was king of Dravida kingdom. He respected aryan but he had seethe for aryans as its clear in the manusmiriti itself how he praises them yet has very harsh treaties for them.
It's good to know Buddha was egalitarian about caste. I do think it's a shame that many more traditional Buddhists seem to use the teachings as an excuse to disengage from politics and the world. Although some monks do of course participate nonviolently. I love a lot about Buddhism but this antipolitical stance is probably one of the biggest issues for me that can't be ignored.
Yes, though there is a vibrant engaged Buddhist community nowadays. I think it's important to understand the history and reasons for the ambivalence about political matters, particularly coming from a secular society in which religion has at times had negative social effects.
@@Q_QQ_Q buddha is as castiest as any one can be and he was a man who believed in caste every time his kul and kshtriya lineage are mentioned he also said a buddha will born in either a kshtriya or brahmin family.
He wasn't. He looked down on brahmins who mixed with the Sanskritized dark aboriginal brahmins and lost their Aryan genes. Buddhism was later used by Aryans in present-day Afghanistan, Pakistan and Indian Punjab to preserve their racial purity.
Amongst hundreds of millions of Buddhists and millions of monks serving to teach and perpetuate the Buddhist Dharma around the world today, Doug, your contributions shine like a diamond. The service you are rendering voluntarily to humanity by condensing the wisdom in those teachungs from various sources; books and other teachers and presenting it so pleasantly, academically and logically in these videos serves a huge valuable purpose to steer humanity in a decent path. Thank you for your perseverance of making video after video and adding to this, your life's greatest legacy. I will catch up with them all eventually and definitely watch each several times and refer to them in years to come. I have shared your videos among those who can appreciate it and believe me your videos will be appreciated by millions of people in generations to come. I am a born Buddhist (Sri Lankan) but you definitely help me learn a purer essence of Buddhist Dharma that I am constantly in search of which is hard to find usually clouded by rituals and focus shifted towards self-interests of mamy Buddhist institutions. PLEASE CONTINUE WHAT YOU ARE DOING FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. SO MANY WILL BENEFIT FROM THESE VIDEOS. THANK YOU (x infinity)
Douglass, Dad and I just listened to this, and are very impressed by your bringing together these two ways of seeing the world, now, at this time, when we are in such a state of division. Bravo to you.
10:10 It is not unique to Buddha's place that Kshatriyas are seen as higher than Brahmins. A lot of ordinary Hindus used to give more respect to Kshatriyas than Brahmins because they have more money. Kshatriyas used to give money to Brahmins if they wrote poems praising their favourite god. Some very strict Hindus consider that giving more respect to Kshatriyas than Brahmins is a materialistic sin. Without understanding that what they believe itself is an evil belief.
@@DougsDharma i have no idea sir it just feels a little weird even today the buddhist kings of Thailand and cambodia are Crowned by a brahminical- buddhist hybrid ceremony performed by ethnically thai and cham brahmins .myanmar kingdom had brahmins as their chief advisers and kingmakers untill the kingdom was abolished by the british
That's probably because Hinduism also spread from India to different parts of Asia. For eg, Thailand once came under the influence of the Khmer Empire, which has strong Hindu roots. So, the Hindu caste system must have infiltrated Asia, in general ...
@@DipayanPyne94 but it proves the fact buddhism had no opposition to castw system in fact before buddhism Brahmins were almost restricted to india but after buddhism brahmins gained so mich power over south east buddhist kingdoms.
Buddhism doesn't really concern itself too much with social justice. You see, Buddha was not interested in social reformation. His Intention in life was to Eliminate/Minimise Human Suffering. It just happens to be the case that he didn't believe in Caste Based Discrimination. He actually Refuted Brahmanical Supremacy. That's why, with the conversion of more and more people to Buddhism, Indian society changed automatically. However, after Buddha's death, some people must have reintroduced the Caste System. This must have travelled to different parts of Asia over several centuries ...
Caste system is mentioned in Manusmiriti which is followed by brahmins and Kshatriys.But doesn't matter this manusmiriti for lower caste nowadays. If your video are coded in hindi, it will have more viewed. Plz make some videos on Neo buddhism.
Nano Buddhay!🙏🏼 Thank you Dough. for this topic. Please suggest me a sutta where Buddh clarifies social system or structure of his time and his responses. I want to take reference for my chapter for PhD thesis.
hi Doug, you can see for yourself that some are born in poverty while others born in rich family, some are born beautiful while others not, some are healthy while others sick. If we discard karma and rebirth, then what other possible explanation do we have regarding such huge contrast between lives of people?
Sure, but why do we believe there must be a moral explanation for such things? The only reason I can see is if we believe that perfect justice must reign in the universe. But why believe in perfect justice?
@@DougsDharma Perfect justice is plainly visible in this life, then why can't it be visible in next life. If we do good, our mind is good, we sleep good, we are joyful. If we can see results of good deeds in this life, then it could also be good in next life.
It is the result of your old karma,why would supreme power decide to give u bad life than other,it would be bias....if we r stingy n self centred, we will born in poor family, we collect merits by donated from heart, the intention matters not the amount....
Whilst you have addressed certain aspects of the Buddha Dhamma regarding Varna, ordination and attainment I'm afraid you've missed the point regarding Identification with the Kaya and in attachment to the corpse that inhabits Citta. This identification is a Thorn in the attainment of Samadhi and the cultivation of the Bojangas especially Uppekha. Attachment to a personality derived from attachment to the body is Samsara.
@@DougsDharma Unfortunately we will have to disagree. But I most certainly acknowledge that the situation in the United States is most definitely one of I-dentification, of grasping, attachment and ignorance.
Hello, Doug ! I would like you to know that MANY Indians have fought against the caste system over the last 2500 years. It's just that Buddha was one of the earliest opponents. You see, there are many instances of anti casteism or rejection of caste based rules. For eg, Shantanu marries Shudra woman Satyavati in the Mahabharat; the Bhakti Poets rejected Brahmanical oppression; Kabir, who influenced the Bhakti Movement, was from the community of weavers, but accepted by Brahmins; and so on. So, you see, the caste system has had some degree of fluidity since it's very inception. It has not been black and white. Many Indians have fought against it for too long ...
There was no racism or casteism in Buddha's time . There is no evidence. Casteism or birth based graded system only come into existence within last 1000 years. Rigveda , oldest , is from 1464 ad .
@@billybutcher6504 Yup. I guess that is true. Even the Sikh Gurus were great. But anyway, a side note. While I Love Buddha, I don't consider him to be a Spectacular Human Being. Plato was, according to me, the FIRST Enlightened Human Being. Waaaay better than Buddha.
I found the below passages discussed in a forum. Looks like it is the clue that Buddha was a Mongloid. I remember, O Sage! the return of a hundred kaliyuga ages, and a hundred incarnations of Hari in the form of Buddha, and as the son of royal Suka or Suddhadana in the land of Kirata. - Yoga Vasishta. Kirata is Chinese or Mongloid. The great Rishi (Vasishta) having heard this from the Mahavidya Sarasvati went to the land of China where Buddha is established (Buddhapratishthita). He had a vision of Sarasvati in which he was told to go to the land of Buddha (buddhadesha), to Mahachina (greater China). - Rudrayamala Tantra Keanu Reeves who played Buddha has some Chinese ancestry.
Buddha rejected VEDAS as basis for any conclusion . Construction of Buddha on basis of Ancient Buddhist Texts particularily Tipitika is a challenge and conclusion bought upon are not thorough and element of suspicion remains. Siddharth Gautama wandered the plains and forests of Indo Nepal Region and had privileged status in contemporary society. The samanas wandering aesthetics with nontheistic and atheistic views were profoundly part of spiritual intelligentia before Buddha shaped the thinking and part of this is formation of Jain religion amd influenced Lokayats or Charvaks. The word AARYA / ARYAN used throughout history over vast landmass stretching Europe , Iran , Afghanistan and India raises question of origin of AARYA / ARYANS . There are group of people who never called themselves AARYA / AARYAN namely DRAVIDS , NAGAS and certainly the aborginoes of Jambudweepa traditionally tribal forest dwellers related to the first wave of migration of the african throughout earth. The case for untouchable may be partly part of shudra and part of tribals who lost their low status even lower for menial work. Due to settlement in parts of Jambudweepa various occupation was taken up traditional chanting and reverence to GOD and capturing the land and tilling it also employing shudra for the work. Those consolidated power and dilute the strict AARYA life practices were named as tillers but still the case for producing intellectual men from aarya tillers and this resulted in clash with non tillers AARYA the brahmin and tillers AARYA the kshatriya several other instances in jainism , vishwamitra meneka , lineage of parshuram and later mythical avtar of vishnu consisting of brahmins and kshatriyas to resolve the conflict for smooth functioning of system , vaishya may initially part of sudra but later position slightly raised. The Bhikshuk Buddha himself might be on spiritual journey and in search of answers to his questions in turn created influenced social movements. The practice of Buddha to eat food given by any person of any caste is reminder of the fact that how egalitarian his views were. In no way the Buddha praises or justifies the discrimination. Buddha calls this sansara as DUKKHA.
In a way, if the society in the Buddha's time did not operate on the caste system, if it cared about people's welfare like Scandinavian countries do, we would not have the Buddha's wisdom, would we?
@@khanhminhnguyen7274 It's Hypothetical Question . BUDDHA and his path of enlightenment is independent of the prevailing social discrimination . Perhaps if all the existing thought had all the ideas and were part of major school of thought before the Siddharth Gautam , then probably Buddha would not have figured out so prominently. The tradition also tells about 27 previous BUDDHA but limited or nothing is known of them. The profound teacher BUDDHA impacts thinking still today. If Compassion had been there in practice may be it would not have become one of the characteristics of Dhamma.
Sir, Please go through all the lists of Buddhas in Buddhist theology. None of them are Shudra/Vaishya either. Lord Rama also partook food from a forest dweller-Shabari and had friends from Nishada(hunter) caste, Monkeys, Birds, Bears, Rakshash(Demons), etc. And enlightened beings will never support any discrimination for any detriment. Also, Jain and Buddhist texts refer themselves Aryas at so many places. Nagas- As per hindu mythology, they are children of Kadru- daughter of Daksh and sage Kashyapa- a brahmin son of Marichi. Buddha was not primarily concerned with social emancipation just like jesus wasn't concerned with Socialism and social equality. These topics came into their teachings as a side note. Dravida- No concept of it is in any ancient Sanskrit/Tamil text. It's a Sanskrit term to signify the land surrounding where three oceans meet. Was first attested to be used by Shankaracharya. And it's a surname used by Brahmins- supposedly Aryan people by some definitions..
It needed to be said. I would have gotten it out earlier but it takes quite a bit of research and work to get these made ... anyhow I hope better late than never.
I have a much earlier video on the ways in which the Buddha both was and wasn't atheist. I imagine he emphasized the existence of devas because they were established parts of the culture into which he was brought up: ua-cam.com/video/QOQiZbAPtW4/v-deo.html
@@tapanprasad5014 To know about Buddha one doesn't need to read a commentary on Buddha written 2400 years after Buddha 🤣😂 It's just like to know what Hinduism is one has to read the books of Vivekananda, Dayananda, Aurobindo instead of vedas, Upanishads, Gita
Thanks, Doug! I'm glad that you pointed out the Buddha's lack of interest in worldly politics. I think that there was a deliberate and well-motivated discipline his choice of just one handful of leaves.
Yes, well I think the Buddha's opinion on these matters, like on so many other matters, was nuanced. He had opinions and indeed expressed them openly. But his focus of effort was internal and with the sangha.
@@DougsDharma that is the claim , no evidence . indianculture.gov.in/unesco/memory-world/rigveda . this is the link which proves written manuscript is from 1464 AD . Main point to note that brahmin literature is in classical Sanskrit and it was developed after 1000AD . you cant write any of the brahmin scriptures before that because language was NOT developed . You are claiming in the video about brahmins being present during buddha's times but its not possible because language was not developed at that time . you cant even write words like Brahmin , Rigveda etc . Kindly check evolution of language . Moreover , there was no vedic culture either . there is NO evidence whatsoever . It simply cant exist . You have a PhD and still believe these propaganda .
@@Q_QQ_Q Castes, brahmins, and Vedas are all mentioned in c. 4th-5th c. BCE early Buddhist texts, composed in Pāli not Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit. And competent historians do not date texts based on their most recent physical instantiations.
@@DougsDharma caste , brahmins are not mentioned and brahmin word cant even be written in Pali . Moreover Veda in Pali means experience/knowledge . its not brahmin Vedas . Only reason vedas are still considered old becuase in british times and even later it was believed that classical sanksrit is the oldest language but by studying evolution of languages , it can be easily proved that Classical Sanskrit is kess than 1000 years old . For it to be history , it needs to have archeological evidence . there is no evidence of brahmin , veda , any brhamin scriptures etc before Mughal period . there is no parameter which anyone can use and prove them to be old . Not just in India but even in foreigner countries who had relations with India , had no mention of Brahmin , Vedas or any brahmin scriptures . greek sources , chinese sources , east asian sources etc there is no evidence . Al Biruni , a persian scholar , wrote in 10th century that brahmins did not know writing which automatically proves that classical Sanskrit was developed much later and only then brahmin scriptures were written .
This is the manuscript of the Vedas that we have today. The oldest Avesta manuscript is from the 12th century. Does this mean the Avesta is 800 years old ?
Buddha in many kinds of formats, formations, depicts, or depictions often has a Far Eastern or South East Asian look while Buddha most likely looked like the typical average Desi unless he was from North East India Or Nepal being exceptions and not rules yeah
I wish more people will watch this video. It will help build a much better and peaceful society. i also wonder why the Buddha didn't advocate the abolishment of slavery. could it be that because the Buddha did not want to interfere with karma? likewise, He did not advocate the abolishment of people who committed crime either. there is no perfect and round about solution for these issues. in fact, i think His teachings are more effective in helping people to overcome such "unfair" barriers. His teachings help to solve not just any particular issues, but all issues we may face in life. if everyone thinks and behaves like the Buddha, there will be no slavery and no crime.
With great humbility, the caste system is known as jati system. What you have explained is varna system, the two are different. Jati system is birth based but varna system was not. Genetic studies shows that birth based jati started 2000 years ago considerably after the life of buddha.
@@DougsDharma Caste is based on birth but genetic studies show it is 2000 years old. Buddha lived prior to this time as I know. Texts must be of later time I certainly thinks so.
The Caste System is not 2000 years old. It existed even during Buddha's own lifetime. Buddha refuted Brahmanical Supremacy. Many Suttas from the Pali Canon make it clear that the caste system existed even 2500 years ago ...
@22:00 Doug gets caught up in his own misunderstanding of history. Buddha didn’t advocated abolishment of caste because there was no caste system at that time. Reading too much into heavily edited texts There was no caste in Aryans that were migrating heavily into Ganges region from 1000 BCE and local Naag and indigenous people. It’s proven by genetic science. None of early travellers into region mentioned it. Alexander’s writers and historians didn’t mention it. First mention of caste type system outside Sanskrit books appears in Chinese travellers notes in 6th century CE. Genetic science put date on it around 300 CE in Ganges and 700 CE in Indus region
Vedic people have contemporary Asurs (Zoroastrians). Which were similar and competitors of Vedic ideology. All powerful Persians were Asur and were present up to river Beas in Punjab. There is no mention of rejection or system of caste in them either. They are way more documented that Vedic people that Doug based his lecture on. Whole idea of caste needs to be relooked at through science and documented history
Sir can you provide me sources??? Even there are some youtube channels like science journey who say that cast didn't existed at the time of Buddha, and before Buddha there was no vedic culture coz vedas are written in devnagri script and the evidence of Devnagri script is from after AD. Therefore, neither vedas never preceded Buddha nor did caste existed at the time of Buddha. Please provide me ,some authentic source to study our history in new light of modern science. 🙏🙏🙏
@@billybutcher6504 for caste system. It showed up in multiple scientific studies. Science journal had paper published on start of endogamy. Rigveda only mentions word shudra once. Even that is debatable if that added on later. All tribes are mixing like any other place on earth. It shows up in genes of present population. Historians confuse facts by calling Indian history. When clearly southern tribes have their independent history with different timelines that UP Bihar. Punjab and Sindh was leading history with biggest population base and technology. Even Buddhist ideology was taken over and transformed into Mahayan in face of Avada and Magdha in this region. Greater Punjab’s history can’t be discussed in same sentence with South of central northern India
Rubbish. The caste system did exist at that time. It's recorded in The Pali Canon of Buddhism itself. The Pali Canon is literally the most reliable set of texts on Buddha, his Life and his Teachings. To ignore them or suggest that they are all propaganda is BS. Read, man ...
@@DipayanPyne94 maybe you should update yourself to genetic research. Endogamy in Ganges region started around 300 AD. Before that there is no genetic sign of caste system. Some area like NW of subcontinent it starts showing up in genes 600 to 800 AD. Multiple studies have proven it. There is no mention of caste system in Tripeetak. Later texts who knows too many of those, shoddy translations and many more issues. Scientific proof is definite
It is important to recognize that Black Lives Matter is a political organization, rather than a statement of belief. It may be important to understand the difference between the two.
Hello, Doug ! I just finished reading a 2004 Paper called 'Greeks and Buddhism : Historical Contacts in the Development of a Universal Religion' by Greek Indologist 'Demetrios Th. Vassiliades'. It's PDF is available online here : Otani University Academic Repository. It is just a Google Search away and is Free. Anyway, Demetrios starts the paper with the Assalayana Sutta of the Majjhima Nikaya. In the Sutta, Buddha talks about Yonas (Greeks) and Kambojas and says that there are only Masters and Slaves in these countries and that a Master can become a slave and vice versa. Demetrios says that this is not likely as, according to him, there isn't enough historical or archaeological evidence for the existence of a Greek settlement in the Eastern Regions of the Persian Empire in the Early 5th century BC. He also says that the Yonas (Greeks) are not included in the list of the 16 Mahajanapadas mentioned many times in the Anguttara Nikaya. So, he says that the Assalayana Sutta has been considered to be a 'Literary' device of later times, which utilised the Greek social system to advance it's own thesis against the birth based caste system of India ... So, I have 2 questions : 1) Is the Assalayana Sutta completely unreliable or partly unreliable ? You see, Buddha gave so many Examples in it. Are they all made up ? Are they not Buddha's views at all ? 2) Are there other Suttas from the Pali Canon where Buddha debunks or criticises caste based discrimination or rebukes Brahmins for the caste system ? You see, I want to know if there is sufficient evidence to believe that Buddha was against the Caste System. Would appreciate it if you could direct me to any Sutta, other than the Assalayana Sutta, from the Pali texts where Buddha Debunks Caste. Thanks ! 🙂
I mention a number of suttas in this video, they are linked below in the notes. The Assalayana Sutta has a number of parallels in ancient languages so probably is early.
@@DougsDharma Oh. Of course ! I totally forgot about the video above 😅 I watched it a long time back and came here to just write a comment. The description just skipped my mind 😅😂 Anyway, thanks a lot ! 🙂
A very nice video to present topic of casteism and racism. In between video there is a mention that Buddha believed that 'the karma of previous birth affect the place of person they are born'. What are the factors that determine someone to take birth in poor family or low caste. Or person from brahmin varna with good karma can take birth in shudra family that although being poor has positive or nourishing environment in family. Or person from shudra varna having bad karma takes birth in brahmin family which even after being rich has negative and depressing environment. If this is the case then taking birth in higher varna does not mean that person performed skillful karma in previous birth or person born in lower caste\varna did unskillful karma in previous birth. The amount of positive and negative karma did in previous birth that resonates with place having similar environment that will be the place person will take rebirth which will be irrespective of varna/caste. We have to check from this angle too.
I don't remember where I read "The laws of the city are the laws of Buddha". Because the cosmopolitic shape and the moving of buddhism. I relate this with the "respect to aristocracy and brahmans" because they are the authority. Is not intelligent to attack the powerful...but with the modern history there are "defense versions" and "rebel versions" of buddhism or at least rebellions (Vietnam, Tibet, marcial arts china, etc.). They reserve to theirselves the freedom to act, is not a dogma. But I was always compelled by this pseudo-koan: "The laws of the city are the laws of Buddha". Taoists where also in this situation sometimes in disrespect of bureucratic power I guess.
I don't think so, no. I mean, there are elements of caste in every culture, and in Japan there's an idea of the separation of the Imperial family and the rest of society, but so far as I know that's about it.
Highest of all is shudra. Because in indian vedic tradition everybody respects feet of the God. Also feet reprents the earth in purushasukta. So shudra is high cast
But why all people look same if they belong to different caste, there should be power or any other thing defining them like different blood All people born same way, live same way, die same way, have same needs , but yet they r different 😂😂😂 does it make any sense
I dont think buddha thinking that kshatriya are as good or better than brahmins has anything to do with the weakness of vedic religion in his area the gangatic plane is pretty much the center for Hinduism it might be because he is kshatriya who are wealthy land owners and noblemen and some times even a kings while brahmins are basically the ones who work for them do there rituals and other religious task and they arent even that rich so naturally a kshatriya kid would think he should be above them
Well we are talking of a time before Hinduism. Present scholarship holds that Vedic Brahmanism (Hinduism’s precursor) was probably not dominant in the area in which the Buddha taught, for the reasons I outlined, and others as well. Johannes Bronkhorst has written about this extensively.
@@DougsDharma but in Johannes in his own book buddhism in the shadow of brahamanism stated that buddha quoted from yagnavalkiya upanishad multiple times . Upanishad are explanations of concepts in the vedas which are the source of vedic religion if he quotes an upanishad he cant be ignorant of its beliefs
@@DougsDharma but as I understood from the video you are trying to say buddha thought that brahmins and kshatriya are equal or kshatriya are better and suggest that because vedic belief in the area was weak he might have thought that but what I am trying to say is that the fact that he had knowledge of the upanishad and could take quotes from them that means he had good knowledge of these beliefs and his idea of kshatriya being better than brahmins was coming not from ignorance but from a more class centric point of view
@KUMAR SANIL Brg to differ this info is Rigbeda itself ''For example, the following verse shows that the Dasyus - the people the Aryans conquered - were of different appearance and language: "10 One car-wheel of the Sun thou rolledst forward, and one thou settest free to move for Kutsa. Thou slewest noseless Dasyus with thy weapon, and in their home o'erthrewest hostile speakers." (5.29.10, i.e. book 5, hymn 29, verse 10).
@Siyovaxsh En-sipad-zid-ana Well ... I'd be happy calling them racist, but folks who research these things like to say that racism is a pseudo-scientific idea coming out of modern ideas of human descent. If so it would be anachronistic to put it into ancient India. But these are splitting hairs.
Hey Doug. Your podcasts and videos are awesome and informative. Thanks for sharing the suttacentral links as well for further reading. I have a doubt regarding the rebirth concept in Buddhism. I thought the concept rebirth is not accepted in Buddhist philosophy. But you did mention in the video on rebirth. What is pretty confusing is Anatta or no soul doctrine of Buddhism says there is no SELF or ATMAN, so how does one really undergo 'rebirth'? Can you explain this in Buddhist teachings? Thanks!
Well as a secular practitioner I leave aside rebirth. In early Buddhism however the Buddha did argue that the stream of mental and physical events that made us up will have causal effects on another lifetime, and this will carry forward the karmic consequences of actions just as they are carried forward by that stream of mental and physical events within this lifetime. There doesn't need to be a self or atman to do this, according to the Buddha.
Doug Sir, The definition of Brahmin as per Upanishads is the one who knows the nature of Brahman- The Panenthietic concept of reality in Hinduism. Also, Purusha Suktam never states that Brahmin originating from mouth of Purusha is greater than a Shudra. At the end, all the castes are part of Divine reality and part of Brahman and thus have divine spark. There are stories in Chhandogya Upanishad where a chariot driver reaches a king about nature of Brahman. And a Shudra boy born to a maidservant was initiated by Rishi Haridrumat Gautama coz he was truthful about his lineage. Hinduism/Vedic Brahmanism isn't a uniform religion nor does it have a central authority. There are lots of variations in it. It's not neccessary to follow caste or untouchability in Hinduism. There is separate Upanishad- Vajrasuchika Upanishad which specifically address the issue of caste and it proclaims that caste are not birth based but karma based..
Interesting, thanks Sud. I’m responding in these videos partly to how the beliefs and practices came through in the Buddha’s day, though they are even practiced nowadays as you know. And even if all castes have ‘divine spark’, what does that say of outcastes?
@@DougsDharma Sir, Point well taken. However, the concept of Jaati(caste) and Achhut(Untouchable/outcaste) was either not there nor very negligible during Lord Buddha's time. Concept of Varna was there in Vedic times- Brahmin or Shudra is varna and not caste(jaati). Jaati is birth based identity linked to a specific profession like Kumhaar(carpenter- Would be in Shudra varna), Khandelwal(Vaishya varna), Sisodiya(A rajput- Kshatriya varna). Also, as far as I have read, Buddha wasn't against the concept of caste as structural framework of society. He was against discrimination and privileges coming out of this framework. Please correct me in this if it's wrong.
@@DougsDharma Also Sir, Navayana(The neo-Buddhist sects started by Baba Saheb Ambedkar) is less about Buddha's teaching and more about of caste annihilation(which is good) and anti-hindu sentiments. That's the reason they clearly state that to not accept Vishnu/Shiva as god and no believe in rebirth which is the central concept of Buddhism. Coz they know that rebirth gives rise to effect of Karma and that justifies a person's birth in a house. They squarely blame Brahmins for the decline of Buddhism in India and corruption in it but forget that a lot of past Buddhas were Brahmins themselves like Kashyapa, Kakusandha, Konagamana, Dipankar and even the upcoming Arya Maitreya too. Apart from that the first 5 students of Gautama Buddha's sermons were Brahmins, Sriputra, Mahmaudglayana,Mahakatyayan,Mahakashyapa, were Brahmin. The chief theologians like Ashwaghosa, Nagarjuna, Kumarjiva,Dignaga,etc were also Brahmins by birth. They are to Buddhism what Paul, Augustine,Thomas Aquinas are to Christianity. Thus, destruction of Buddhism by Brahmins is a theory of anti-Caste Navayana which I don't subscribe to..
@@Q_QQ_Q U should read Buddhcharita and Pali Canons. Buddha knew about Vedas and addresses Brahmins. The first 5 disciples of Buddhas were Brahmins, MahaKashyapa, MahaMaudgalayan, Sariputra and Mahakatyayana. One whole chapter in Dhammapada is pertaining to BrahmaVagga. Plz refer.
Wrong info... quoting selective half verses... like Brahman are born from mouth... and others are born through other parts... kindly come with right facts...
I just came across you, so I'll ask here. If you made a video on this already that'd be cool. You're aware of Buddhism proper and westernized "moderation" Buddhism? Cause I see people critiquing grave misconceptions about Buddhism from time to time. Tolle isn't the only one more "orthodox" Buddhists critique. Though he's certainly the most famous and richest thanks to Oprah. I don't think Buddhism is particularly presentistic. Possibly Kantian when it comes to time not being a concept, meaning the present is as empty as past and future. I'm not claiming to be any expert so I'm sure i have my foot in my mouth here.
Hi KP, I'm not really sure I've grasped your question. One problem is that so much of what you are interested in will depend on what kind of Buddhism is under discussion. On this channel I generally discuss early Buddhism, with a contemporary flavor.
Hi Doug...... It is great that you spoke on " black lives matter. Very sad and shocking . I born in Sri Lanka, sadly I had to experience racism , racial riots in 1983. then in my late teens You are focusing on events in USA, West which are non buddhist majority countries . Please read about pre dominantly Buddhist majority South Asian countries like Sri lanka ,Maymar. Does religion play a positive role to unite ethnically diverse societies , let me know ......
It says that you've PhD but still talking about castes from Buddha's times. There was no caste or brahmin during Buddha's times. Your videos sounds fairy tale to me. What is the source ?
@@DougsDharma they were written much later and also there is a problem of translation . people have had translated with classical Sanskrit in mind . Kindly use Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit , not classical Sanskrit whenever there is buddhist literature in Sanskrit . If you like , kindly read Al-Biruni , he was persian who visited modern day India in 10th century and he clearly mentioned that brhamins cant read or write Vedas . they couldnt even read Dhamma script when various islamic/turkik rulers asked them to translate . their whole work is in DevNagri script which was developed later including RIgveda . Brhamins did NOT have history in India before Nagri script .
There were castes during Buddha's lifetime. They are recorded in The Pali Canon. The Pali Canon is literally the most authoritative set of texts on Buddha, his Life and his Teachings. To suggest that the facts in them are all hogwash is BS ...
@@DipayanPyne94 you must be brghamin quota people to say that . there were no caste then . brhamins were brought in 11th century by muslims thus castes were created to colonize .
@@Q_QQ_Q Not true, bro. Ancient Indian texts and foreign texts have enough evidence about the existence of Brahmans in India. They have been here for more than 2000 years.
i stopped at you misinterpreting purush sukta , vinaypitak and other buddhist texts has full caste discrimination and misogyny caste system in buddhism- ua-cam.com/video/bzteKq85dfE/v-deo.html and if you know hindi then there is a channel named sanatan samikha , they have completely exposed buddhist
Well this is not the gotcha u hoped for lol, we dont care or follow any random texts written by brahmin converts centuries after the buddha died but rather follow the life and actions of buddha that tried to end the injustices of the hindu based order.
Check out this video next on Dr. Ambedkar's "new Buddhism", a movement against caste in India: ua-cam.com/video/qlH_qieCgCA/v-deo.html
Consider joining us on Patreon if you find benefit in these videos, and get fun extras like exclusive behind-the-scenes videos, audio-only versions, and extensive show notes: www.patreon.com/dougsseculardharma 🙂
@Subhankar Dey ur a joke.. Simply misguiding with ur racial propaganda.. Go play ur trumpet for ur brahma
Caste does not belong to Bharat or India 👍🏼it's imposed by Britishers or Christian mentality. Stop defaming India 👍🏼caste is a European word. It's not Bhartiya or Indian 🙏🏻. Kindly Reeducate yourself 🔥🚩🌾👍🏼
@@jyotivyas9286 Hinduism is not Indian word
Let's dismantle Hinduism!
@@jyotivyas9286 Cast is inherent and inextricable part of hinduism. So.. In order to save ur religion, u cant distort history. Btw, by the time of buddha, britishers didn't arrived at our shores. How they created cast then??? Buddha, Sant Kabir, Guru nanak, etc were people who condemned henious of Hinduism aka cast system, and they all were born before british invasion. So.. How cast is foreign invasion???
Caste comes from word Casta in Portuguese... it was imposed as an identity by britishes upon india during 1800s census... anyway ambedkars understanding of indian history is nothing but parroting British written history by Macaulays and notorious missionaries like Robert caldwell... ambedkar never learned sanskrit... he just had his understanding based on translated versions of missionaries and britishes...
I appreciate that you don’t run away from parts of the teachings that are complex. It’s easy to gloss over these things, but I always feel better for challenging myself.
Thanks Paul, yes I think it's not quite honest to leave out the difficult parts. That said, we all have our blind spots so should always be trying to learn.
It's great to see your personal contribution to this broad debate with these comparisons to early Buddhism. That's how each one of us can make change happen!
Let's hope so. We sorely need change!
@@DougsDharma Did the Buddha teach activism or was he against isms?
@@uilium As Doug mentioned in the video above, the Buddha did not want to go about protesting or changing the societal order of his time. Instead, he focused on establishing a SANGHA, where caste would have no role to play.
The Buddha was once called as a low caste by a Brahman. For this the Buddha replied
'Najaja wasalo hothi
Najajja hothi Brahmano
Kamano wasalo hothi
kammano hothi brahmano'
which translates to 'You do not become a Brahman (Nobel) with your birth nor does birth make you a low cast. It’s your own deeds(actions) that decide which'. (Dhammapada) Even according to the modern day behavioral psychologists, humans are not born either good or bad by nature, but are born neutral by nature. In another instance the Buddha was questioned why he ordained people from lower casts to which the Buddha replied that just like the water from different rivers which flow to the sea cannot be separated once they mix to the sea, once a person is ordained he becomes a 'sanga' (monk) who cannot be separated by caste.
That's right Brain Matter, thanks!
There was no brahmin during Buddha. No mention of brahmin anywhere . Stop spreading lies.
@@Q_QQ_Q bhimta
@@Q_QQ_Q sure caste apologist, hsitorians are wrong and you are right lol
Amazing. It's unfortunate that the liberals in ancient India like Buddha, Mahavira, Emperor Ashoka lost to racist orthodox elements like Manu. The caste system is the greatest shame in Indian history, one of the greatest in human history.
It is unfortunate for sure!
Theses come from only after 10ty century ad.
Manu And buddha Re brothers in castism and ashok is no way liberal. @@DougsDharma
Manu was a Dravidian lol. He was king of Dravida kingdom. He respected aryan but he had seethe for aryans as its clear in the manusmiriti itself how he praises them yet has very harsh treaties for them.
It's good to know Buddha was egalitarian about caste. I do think it's a shame that many more traditional Buddhists seem to use the teachings as an excuse to disengage from politics and the world. Although some monks do of course participate nonviolently. I love a lot about Buddhism but this antipolitical stance is probably one of the biggest issues for me that can't be ignored.
Yes, though there is a vibrant engaged Buddhist community nowadays. I think it's important to understand the history and reasons for the ambivalence about political matters, particularly coming from a secular society in which religion has at times had negative social effects.
An apolitical stance is a requirement of monks.
There was no caste Buddha's times.
@@Q_QQ_Q buddha is as castiest as any one can be and he was a man who believed in caste every time his kul and kshtriya lineage are mentioned he also said a buddha will born in either a kshtriya or brahmin family.
He wasn't. He looked down on brahmins who mixed with the Sanskritized dark aboriginal brahmins and lost their Aryan genes. Buddhism was later used by Aryans in present-day Afghanistan, Pakistan and Indian Punjab to preserve their racial purity.
You are very knowledgeable in your understanding of Buddhism. Keep up the good work.These video’s will help bring the Dharma to life for everybody.
Thanks Leland, I'm glad you're getting something out of these videos!
Amongst hundreds of millions of Buddhists and millions of monks serving to teach and perpetuate the Buddhist Dharma around the world today, Doug, your contributions shine like a diamond. The service you are rendering voluntarily to humanity by condensing the wisdom in those teachungs from various sources; books and other teachers and presenting it so pleasantly, academically and logically in these videos serves a huge valuable purpose to steer humanity in a decent path.
Thank you for your perseverance of making video after video and adding to this, your life's greatest legacy. I will catch up with them all eventually and definitely watch each several times and refer to them in years to come. I have shared your videos among those who can appreciate it and believe me your videos will be appreciated by millions of people in generations to come.
I am a born Buddhist (Sri Lankan) but you definitely help me learn a purer essence of Buddhist Dharma that I am constantly in search of which is hard to find usually clouded by rituals and focus shifted towards self-interests of mamy Buddhist institutions.
PLEASE CONTINUE WHAT YOU ARE DOING FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. SO MANY WILL BENEFIT FROM THESE VIDEOS.
THANK YOU (x infinity)
That's very kind of you Misaka, I certainly hope to do so! 🙏🙂
Are you srilankan ?
Douglass, Dad and I just listened to this, and are very impressed by your bringing together these two ways of seeing the world, now, at this time, when we are in such a state of division. Bravo to you.
Thanks!
I always loved your channel and your Dhamma , as a African American learning the Buddha Dhamma this made me respect you way more 🙏🏽 #BLM
Thanks so much MIRCAT, and be well. 🙏🙂 #BLM
Great video. I like how you contextualise historical Buddhism in its social realities.
Yes, thanks so much Rohan! 🙏
i like this guy
I like your profile picture :)
Thanks, Doug!! What a touching poem. I cried every time I hear this.
My pleasure, Zach. Yes it is touching, I agree. 🙏
Great video. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You are my favourite lay Buddhist teacher. It is such a pleasure to listen to you. Thank you so much!
You're very welcome swamig04! Thanks for watching and commenting. 🙏🙂
10:10 It is not unique to Buddha's place that Kshatriyas are seen as higher than Brahmins. A lot of ordinary Hindus used to give more respect to Kshatriyas than Brahmins because they have more money. Kshatriyas used to give money to Brahmins if they wrote poems praising their favourite god. Some very strict Hindus consider that giving more respect to Kshatriyas than Brahmins is a materialistic sin. Without understanding that what they believe itself is an evil belief.
Interesting, thanks Sreeman.
Ok sir give me the reason of why did middle buddhist kingdoms in countries like Myanmar, Thailand,cambodia, etc use manusmriti as there law book??
Why do you think Byron?
@@DougsDharma i have no idea sir it just feels a little weird even today the buddhist kings of Thailand and cambodia are Crowned by a brahminical- buddhist hybrid ceremony performed by ethnically thai and cham brahmins .myanmar kingdom had brahmins as their chief advisers and kingmakers untill the kingdom was abolished by the british
That's probably because Hinduism also spread from India to different parts of Asia. For eg, Thailand once came under the influence of the Khmer Empire, which has strong Hindu roots. So, the Hindu caste system must have infiltrated Asia, in general ...
@@DipayanPyne94 but it proves the fact buddhism had no opposition to castw system in fact before buddhism Brahmins were almost restricted to india but after buddhism brahmins gained so mich power over south east buddhist kingdoms.
Buddhism doesn't really concern itself too much with social justice. You see, Buddha was not interested in social reformation. His Intention in life was to Eliminate/Minimise Human Suffering. It just happens to be the case that he didn't believe in Caste Based Discrimination. He actually Refuted Brahmanical Supremacy. That's why, with the conversion of more and more people to Buddhism, Indian society changed automatically. However, after Buddha's death, some people must have reintroduced the Caste System. This must have travelled to different parts of Asia over several centuries ...
Wooooh.. didn't expect to see this.. so awesome... Satu! Thanks Doug..!
For sure! 🙏
Caste system is mentioned in Manusmiriti which is followed by brahmins and Kshatriys.But doesn't matter this manusmiriti for lower caste nowadays.
If your video are coded in hindi, it will have more viewed.
Plz make some videos on Neo buddhism.
Thanks Sunil. If you mean videos about Dr. Ambedkar, I have already made one: ua-cam.com/video/qlH_qieCgCA/v-deo.html
Nano Buddhay!🙏🏼
Thank you Dough. for this topic. Please suggest me a sutta where Buddh clarifies social system or structure of his time and his responses.
I want to take reference for my chapter for PhD thesis.
You're very welcome I Bhardwaj! Take a look at the suttas linked in the info box below the video. There are several there.
Read DR BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR books as well, it would be really helpful for u. 😊
hi Doug, you can see for yourself that some are born in poverty while others born in rich family, some are born beautiful while others not, some are healthy while others sick. If we discard karma and rebirth, then what other possible explanation do we have regarding such huge contrast between lives of people?
Sure, but why do we believe there must be a moral explanation for such things? The only reason I can see is if we believe that perfect justice must reign in the universe. But why believe in perfect justice?
@@DougsDharma
Perfect justice is plainly visible in this life, then why can't it be visible in next life. If we do good, our mind is good, we sleep good, we are joyful. If we can see results of good deeds in this life, then it could also be good in next life.
It is the result of your old karma,why would supreme power decide to give u bad life than other,it would be bias....if we r stingy n self centred, we will born in poor family, we collect merits by donated from heart, the intention matters not the amount....
Very informative. I recommend you to read Buddha and his Dhamma by Dr. B.R Ambedkar
Yes Sanket I mention Ambedkar’s work at the end of the video. 🙂
Whilst you have addressed certain aspects of the Buddha Dhamma regarding Varna, ordination and attainment I'm afraid you've missed the point regarding Identification with the Kaya and in attachment to the corpse that inhabits Citta. This identification is a Thorn in the attainment of Samadhi and the cultivation of the Bojangas especially Uppekha. Attachment to a personality derived from attachment to the body is Samsara.
Perhaps so, but that was not the topic of this video.
@@DougsDharma Unfortunately we will have to disagree. But I most certainly acknowledge that the situation in the United States is most definitely one of I-dentification, of grasping, attachment and ignorance.
Thank you so much for this video!
Yes, it's so necessary. 🙏
Hello, Doug ! I would like you to know that MANY Indians have fought against the caste system over the last 2500 years. It's just that Buddha was one of the earliest opponents.
You see, there are many instances of anti casteism or rejection of caste based rules. For eg, Shantanu marries Shudra woman Satyavati in the Mahabharat; the Bhakti Poets rejected Brahmanical oppression; Kabir, who influenced the Bhakti Movement, was from the community of weavers, but accepted by Brahmins; and so on. So, you see, the caste system has had some degree of fluidity since it's very inception. It has not been black and white. Many Indians have fought against it for too long ...
Yes of course, thanks for the reminder Dipayan.
@@DougsDharma No worries, Doug ! Thanks for the video ! 😄
There was no racism or casteism in Buddha's time . There is no evidence. Casteism or birth based graded system only come into existence within last 1000 years. Rigveda , oldest , is from 1464 ad .
Many Indians fought against cast but no one was impactful more than Buddha and BABASAHEB.
@@billybutcher6504 Yup. I guess that is true. Even the Sikh Gurus were great. But anyway, a side note. While I Love Buddha, I don't consider him to be a Spectacular Human Being. Plato was, according to me, the FIRST Enlightened Human Being. Waaaay better than Buddha.
This is a challenging time, eyes are being opened to injustice. More empathy and Mettā is needed. Thank you Doug #BlackLivesMatter ✊🏿✊🏾✊🏽✊🏻
Yes more empathy, more mettā, more compassionate action. 🙏🏿🙏🏾🙏🏽🙏🏼🙏🏻
One Brief Video on Dr. Ambedkar and his Dhamma For Indian Buddhist Please 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Yes, I did one awhile ago: ua-cam.com/video/qlH_qieCgCA/v-deo.html
I found the below passages discussed in a forum. Looks like it is the clue that Buddha was a Mongloid.
I remember, O Sage! the return of a hundred kaliyuga ages, and a hundred incarnations of Hari in the form of Buddha, and as the son of royal Suka or Suddhadana in the land of Kirata. - Yoga Vasishta. Kirata is Chinese or Mongloid.
The great Rishi (Vasishta) having heard this from the Mahavidya Sarasvati went to the land of China where Buddha is established (Buddhapratishthita). He had a vision of Sarasvati in which he was told to go to the land of Buddha (buddhadesha), to Mahachina (greater China). - Rudrayamala Tantra
Keanu Reeves who played Buddha has some Chinese ancestry.
Buddha rejected VEDAS as basis for any conclusion .
Construction of Buddha on basis of Ancient Buddhist Texts particularily Tipitika is a challenge and conclusion bought upon are not thorough and element of suspicion remains.
Siddharth Gautama wandered the plains and forests of Indo Nepal Region and had privileged status in contemporary society.
The samanas wandering aesthetics with nontheistic and atheistic views were profoundly part of spiritual intelligentia before Buddha shaped the thinking and part of this is formation of Jain religion amd influenced Lokayats or Charvaks.
The word AARYA / ARYAN used throughout history over vast landmass stretching Europe , Iran , Afghanistan and India raises question of origin of AARYA / ARYANS .
There are group of people who never called themselves AARYA / AARYAN namely DRAVIDS , NAGAS and certainly the aborginoes of Jambudweepa traditionally tribal forest dwellers related to the first wave of migration of the african throughout earth.
The case for untouchable may be partly part of shudra and part of tribals who lost their low status even lower for menial work.
Due to settlement in parts of Jambudweepa various occupation was taken up traditional chanting and reverence to GOD and capturing the land and tilling it also employing shudra for the work.
Those consolidated power and dilute the strict AARYA life practices were named as tillers but still the case for producing intellectual men from aarya tillers and this resulted in clash with non tillers AARYA the brahmin and tillers AARYA the kshatriya several other instances in jainism , vishwamitra meneka , lineage of parshuram and later mythical avtar of vishnu consisting of brahmins and kshatriyas to resolve the conflict for smooth functioning of system , vaishya may initially part of sudra but later position slightly raised.
The Bhikshuk Buddha himself might be on spiritual journey and in search of answers to his questions in turn created influenced social movements.
The practice of Buddha to eat food given by any person of any caste is reminder of the fact that how egalitarian his views were.
In no way the Buddha praises or justifies the discrimination.
Buddha calls this sansara as DUKKHA.
Thanks for your input U SD.
@@DougsDharma I appreciate your efforts and find yourself as an inspiring teacher of Buddha's Teachings.
Thank You. 🙏
In a way, if the society in the Buddha's time did not operate on the caste system, if it cared about people's welfare like Scandinavian countries do, we would not have the Buddha's wisdom, would we?
@@khanhminhnguyen7274 It's Hypothetical Question .
BUDDHA and his path of enlightenment is independent of the prevailing social discrimination .
Perhaps if all the existing thought had all the ideas and were part of major school of thought before the Siddharth Gautam , then probably Buddha would not have figured out so prominently.
The tradition also tells about 27 previous BUDDHA but limited or nothing is known of them.
The profound teacher BUDDHA impacts thinking still today.
If Compassion had been there in practice may be it would not have become one of the characteristics of Dhamma.
Sir, Please go through all the lists of Buddhas in Buddhist theology. None of them are Shudra/Vaishya either. Lord Rama also partook food from a forest dweller-Shabari and had friends from Nishada(hunter) caste, Monkeys, Birds, Bears, Rakshash(Demons), etc. And enlightened beings will never support any discrimination for any detriment. Also, Jain and Buddhist texts refer themselves Aryas at so many places.
Nagas- As per hindu mythology, they are children of Kadru- daughter of Daksh and sage Kashyapa- a brahmin son of Marichi.
Buddha was not primarily concerned with social emancipation just like jesus wasn't concerned with Socialism and social equality. These topics came into their teachings as a side note.
Dravida- No concept of it is in any ancient Sanskrit/Tamil text. It's a Sanskrit term to signify the land surrounding where three oceans meet. Was first attested to be used by Shankaracharya. And it's a surname used by Brahmins- supposedly Aryan people by some definitions..
Which sutta the Buddha mentioned about the origin of caste???
DN 27: suttacentral.net/dn27/en/sujato
May I have your e-mail?
On a serious note, thank you for this.
It needed to be said. I would have gotten it out earlier but it takes quite a bit of research and work to get these made ... anyhow I hope better late than never.
Wow a great video Doug , can you make video on devas and why buddha emphasized thier existance
I have a much earlier video on the ways in which the Buddha both was and wasn't atheist. I imagine he emphasized the existence of devas because they were established parts of the culture into which he was brought up: ua-cam.com/video/QOQiZbAPtW4/v-deo.html
@@tapanprasad5014 So do the Umpansidhaites and Jain
Cārvāka and Ajivika sounded much more rational, scientific than Buddha
@@tapanprasad5014 To know about Buddha one doesn't need to read a commentary on Buddha written 2400 years after Buddha
🤣😂
It's just like to know what Hinduism is one has to read the books of Vivekananda, Dayananda, Aurobindo instead of vedas, Upanishads, Gita
Thanks, Doug! I'm glad that you pointed out the Buddha's lack of interest in worldly politics. I think that there was a deliberate and well-motivated discipline his choice of just one handful of leaves.
Yes, well I think the Buddha's opinion on these matters, like on so many other matters, was nuanced. He had opinions and indeed expressed them openly. But his focus of effort was internal and with the sangha.
7:00 rigveda , oldest , is from 1464 ad.
The Rg Veda is c. 1500-1000 BCE.
@@DougsDharma that is the claim , no evidence . indianculture.gov.in/unesco/memory-world/rigveda . this is the link which proves written manuscript is from 1464 AD .
Main point to note that brahmin literature is in classical Sanskrit and it was developed after 1000AD . you cant write any of the brahmin scriptures before that because language was NOT developed .
You are claiming in the video about brahmins being present during buddha's times but its not possible because language was not developed at that time . you cant even write words like Brahmin , Rigveda etc . Kindly check evolution of language .
Moreover , there was no vedic culture either . there is NO evidence whatsoever . It simply cant exist . You have a PhD and still believe these propaganda .
@@Q_QQ_Q Castes, brahmins, and Vedas are all mentioned in c. 4th-5th c. BCE early Buddhist texts, composed in Pāli not Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit. And competent historians do not date texts based on their most recent physical instantiations.
@@DougsDharma caste , brahmins are not mentioned and brahmin word cant even be written in Pali . Moreover Veda in Pali means experience/knowledge . its not brahmin Vedas .
Only reason vedas are still considered old becuase in british times and even later it was believed that classical sanksrit is the oldest language but by studying evolution of languages , it can be easily proved that Classical Sanskrit is kess than 1000 years old .
For it to be history , it needs to have archeological evidence . there is no evidence of brahmin , veda , any brhamin scriptures etc before Mughal period .
there is no parameter which anyone can use and prove them to be old . Not just in India but even in foreigner countries who had relations with India , had no mention of Brahmin , Vedas or any brahmin scriptures . greek sources , chinese sources , east asian sources etc there is no evidence .
Al Biruni , a persian scholar , wrote in 10th century that brahmins did not know writing which automatically proves that classical Sanskrit was developed much later and only then brahmin scriptures were written .
This is the manuscript of the Vedas that we have today. The oldest Avesta manuscript is from the 12th century. Does this mean the Avesta is 800 years old ?
Buddha in many kinds of formats, formations, depicts, or depictions often has a Far Eastern or South East Asian look while Buddha most likely looked like the typical average Desi unless he was from North East India Or Nepal being exceptions and not rules yeah
I wish more people will watch this video. It will help build a much better and peaceful society.
i also wonder why the Buddha didn't advocate the abolishment of slavery. could it be that because the Buddha did not want to interfere with karma? likewise, He did not advocate the abolishment of people who committed crime either. there is no perfect and round about solution for these issues. in fact, i think His teachings are more effective in helping people to overcome such "unfair" barriers. His teachings help to solve not just any particular issues, but all issues we may face in life. if everyone thinks and behaves like the Buddha, there will be no slavery and no crime.
🙏😊
With great humbility, the caste system is known as jati system. What you have explained is varna system, the two are different. Jati system is birth based but varna system was not. Genetic studies shows that birth based jati started 2000 years ago considerably after the life of buddha.
The Buddha discusses birth as the central aspect of caste. These are the same system.
@@DougsDharma Caste is based on birth but genetic studies show it is 2000 years old. Buddha lived prior to this time as I know. Texts must be of later time I certainly thinks so.
The Caste System is not 2000 years old. It existed even during Buddha's own lifetime. Buddha refuted Brahmanical Supremacy. Many Suttas from the Pali Canon make it clear that the caste system existed even 2500 years ago ...
Could you do a video on pure land buddhism?
It’s posible I might do so someday but generally speaking my focus is on earlier forms of Buddhism. 🙂
@22:00 Doug gets caught up in his own misunderstanding of history. Buddha didn’t advocated abolishment of caste because there was no caste system at that time. Reading too much into heavily edited texts
There was no caste in Aryans that were migrating heavily into Ganges region from 1000 BCE and local Naag and indigenous people. It’s proven by genetic science. None of early travellers into region mentioned it. Alexander’s writers and historians didn’t mention it. First mention of caste type system outside Sanskrit books appears in Chinese travellers notes in 6th century CE. Genetic science put date on it around 300 CE in Ganges and 700 CE in Indus region
Vedic people have contemporary Asurs (Zoroastrians). Which were similar and competitors of Vedic ideology. All powerful Persians were Asur and were present up to river Beas in Punjab. There is no mention of rejection or system of caste in them either. They are way more documented that Vedic people that Doug based his lecture on.
Whole idea of caste needs to be relooked at through science and documented history
Sir can you provide me sources???
Even there are some youtube channels like science journey who say that cast didn't existed at the time of Buddha, and before Buddha there was no vedic culture coz vedas are written in devnagri script and the evidence of Devnagri script is from after AD.
Therefore, neither vedas never preceded Buddha nor did caste existed at the time of Buddha.
Please provide me ,some authentic source to study our history in new light of modern science. 🙏🙏🙏
@@billybutcher6504 for caste system. It showed up in multiple scientific studies. Science journal had paper published on start of endogamy. Rigveda only mentions word shudra once. Even that is debatable if that added on later. All tribes are mixing like any other place on earth. It shows up in genes of present population.
Historians confuse facts by calling Indian history. When clearly southern tribes have their independent history with different timelines that UP Bihar. Punjab and Sindh was leading history with biggest population base and technology. Even Buddhist ideology was taken over and transformed into Mahayan in face of Avada and Magdha in this region. Greater Punjab’s history can’t be discussed in same sentence with South of central northern India
Rubbish. The caste system did exist at that time. It's recorded in The Pali Canon of Buddhism itself. The Pali Canon is literally the most reliable set of texts on Buddha, his Life and his Teachings. To ignore them or suggest that they are all propaganda is BS. Read, man ...
@@DipayanPyne94 maybe you should update yourself to genetic research. Endogamy in Ganges region started around 300 AD. Before that there is no genetic sign of caste system. Some area like NW of subcontinent it starts showing up in genes 600 to 800 AD. Multiple studies have proven it.
There is no mention of caste system in Tripeetak. Later texts who knows too many of those, shoddy translations and many more issues. Scientific proof is definite
It is important to recognize that Black Lives Matter is a political organization, rather than a statement of belief. It may be important to understand the difference between the two.
I don't think it's an either/or. It's both. Most importantly, it's a statement of belief. The organization exists to bring the belief into being.
@@DougsDharma ua-cam.com/video/gLaP1bnTZds/v-deo.html
@@DougsDharma This may also be helpful. ua-cam.com/video/gp4fg9PWuhM/v-deo.html
I'm afraid it is an either/or; The organization has a toxic agenda, and has created much pain for a lot of innocent people.
Hello, Doug ! I just finished reading a 2004 Paper called 'Greeks and Buddhism : Historical Contacts in the Development of a Universal Religion' by Greek Indologist 'Demetrios Th. Vassiliades'. It's PDF is available online here : Otani University Academic Repository. It is just a Google Search away and is Free.
Anyway, Demetrios starts the paper with the Assalayana Sutta of the Majjhima Nikaya. In the Sutta, Buddha talks about Yonas (Greeks) and Kambojas and says that there are only Masters and Slaves in these countries and that a Master can become a slave and vice versa. Demetrios says that this is not likely as, according to him, there isn't enough historical or archaeological evidence for the existence of a Greek settlement in the Eastern Regions of the Persian Empire in the Early 5th century BC. He also says that the Yonas (Greeks) are not included in the list of the 16 Mahajanapadas mentioned many times in the Anguttara Nikaya. So, he says that the Assalayana Sutta has been considered to be a 'Literary' device of later times, which utilised the Greek social system to advance it's own thesis against the birth based caste system of India ...
So, I have 2 questions :
1) Is the Assalayana Sutta completely unreliable or partly unreliable ?
You see, Buddha gave so many Examples in it. Are they all made up ? Are they not Buddha's views at all ?
2) Are there other Suttas from the Pali Canon where Buddha debunks or criticises caste based discrimination or rebukes Brahmins for the caste system ?
You see, I want to know if there is sufficient evidence to believe that Buddha was against the Caste System. Would appreciate it if you could direct me to any Sutta, other than the Assalayana Sutta, from the Pali texts where Buddha Debunks Caste. Thanks ! 🙂
I mention a number of suttas in this video, they are linked below in the notes. The Assalayana Sutta has a number of parallels in ancient languages so probably is early.
@@DougsDharma Oh. Of course ! I totally forgot about the video above 😅 I watched it a long time back and came here to just write a comment. The description just skipped my mind 😅😂 Anyway, thanks a lot ! 🙂
There was no racism or casteism in Buddha's time . There is no evidence. Kindly do not spread them as truth if your sources are of much later times.
@@Q_QQ_Q contrary to your opinion..The early suttas discuss Casteism in detail
@@middlewayers no they don't , its only in your head .
Wow!! Amazing work. 🙏🙇
Thanks Adi D, I hope it's useful. 🙏
A very nice video to present topic of casteism and racism.
In between video there is a mention that Buddha believed that 'the karma of previous birth affect the place of person they are born'. What are the factors that determine someone to take birth in poor family or low caste. Or person from brahmin varna with good karma can take birth in shudra family that although being poor has positive or nourishing environment in family. Or person from shudra varna having bad karma takes birth in brahmin family which even after being rich has negative and depressing environment. If this is the case then taking birth in higher varna does not mean that person performed skillful karma in previous birth or person born in lower caste\varna did unskillful karma in previous birth.
The amount of positive and negative karma did in previous birth that resonates with place having similar environment that will be the place person will take rebirth which will be irrespective of varna/caste.
We have to check from this angle too.
Well the Buddha did also say that trying to understand karma was basically impossible. So there's that too.
I don't remember where I read "The laws of the city are the laws of Buddha". Because the cosmopolitic shape and the moving of buddhism. I relate this with the "respect to aristocracy and brahmans" because they are the authority. Is not intelligent to attack the powerful...but with the modern history there are "defense versions" and "rebel versions" of buddhism or at least rebellions (Vietnam, Tibet, marcial arts china, etc.). They reserve to theirselves the freedom to act, is not a dogma. But I was always compelled by this pseudo-koan: "The laws of the city are the laws of Buddha". Taoists where also in this situation sometimes in disrespect of bureucratic power I guess.
Well yes in the sense that as a religion Buddhism generally went along with the laws of the state of which it was a part.
Awesome video, Doug!
Thanks João! 🙏
Is there any caste system in japan
I don't think so, no. I mean, there are elements of caste in every culture, and in Japan there's an idea of the separation of the Imperial family and the rest of society, but so far as I know that's about it.
Interesting video, thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it Minoes!
Treefinger podcast on Spotify
Highest of all is shudra. Because in indian vedic tradition everybody respects feet of the God. Also feet reprents the earth in purushasukta. So shudra is high cast
But why all people look same if they belong to different caste,
there should be power or any other thing defining them like different blood
All people born same way, live same way, die same way, have same needs , but yet they r different 😂😂😂 does it make any sense
@@xyzpeace7814 agree with you, varna is ignorable thing, we give importance to personality but not cast or varna
@@xyzpeace7814All people are born the same but some live differently, some die differently. Their needs are also different
I dont think buddha thinking that kshatriya are as good or better than brahmins has anything to do with the weakness of vedic religion in his area the gangatic plane is pretty much the center for Hinduism it might be because he is kshatriya who are wealthy land owners and noblemen and some times even a kings while brahmins are basically the ones who work for them do there rituals and other religious task and they arent even that rich so naturally a kshatriya kid would think he should be above them
Well we are talking of a time before Hinduism. Present scholarship holds that Vedic Brahmanism (Hinduism’s precursor) was probably not dominant in the area in which the Buddha taught, for the reasons I outlined, and others as well. Johannes Bronkhorst has written about this extensively.
@@DougsDharma but in Johannes in his own book buddhism in the shadow of brahamanism stated that buddha quoted from yagnavalkiya upanishad multiple times . Upanishad are explanations of concepts in the vedas which are the source of vedic religion if he quotes an upanishad he cant be ignorant of its beliefs
Yes, it was present and he wasn’t ignorant about it, but it wasn’t dominant. That’s the point.
@@DougsDharma but as I understood from the video you are trying to say buddha thought that brahmins and kshatriya are equal or kshatriya are better and suggest that because vedic belief in the area was weak he might have thought that but what I am trying to say is that the fact that he had knowledge of the upanishad and could take quotes from them that means he had good knowledge of these beliefs and his idea of kshatriya being better than brahmins was coming not from ignorance but from a more class centric point of view
@@indrason6974 moral of story.buddha rejected Vedas
You explained jati
Not Varna they're different
In Varna even shudra become Brahmin
Dasa and Sudra are the names of the dark skin tribes conquered by Arias hence the caste system originated
Yes this is one potential historical reconstruction. It’s hard to know for sure.
@KUMAR SANIL Brg to differ this info is Rigbeda itself ''For example, the following verse shows that the Dasyus - the people the Aryans conquered - were of different appearance and language:
"10 One car-wheel of the Sun thou rolledst forward, and one thou settest free to move for Kutsa. Thou slewest noseless Dasyus with thy weapon, and in their home o'erthrewest hostile speakers." (5.29.10, i.e. book 5, hymn 29, verse 10).
@@secular13 thats wrong
@@secular13 🤣🤣🤣comedy knoweldge
varna -caste-colour/color
That’s right, it is proto-racist.
@Siyovaxsh En-sipad-zid-ana Well ... I'd be happy calling them racist, but folks who research these things like to say that racism is a pseudo-scientific idea coming out of modern ideas of human descent. If so it would be anachronistic to put it into ancient India. But these are splitting hairs.
Buddha followed caste system
It's Kshatriya
Brahman
Vaish
Shudra
Hey Doug. Your podcasts and videos are awesome and informative. Thanks for sharing the suttacentral links as well for further reading.
I have a doubt regarding the rebirth concept in Buddhism. I thought the concept rebirth is not accepted in Buddhist philosophy. But you did mention in the video on rebirth. What is pretty confusing is Anatta or no soul doctrine of Buddhism says there is no SELF or ATMAN, so how does one really undergo 'rebirth'? Can you explain this in Buddhist teachings?
Thanks!
Well as a secular practitioner I leave aside rebirth. In early Buddhism however the Buddha did argue that the stream of mental and physical events that made us up will have causal effects on another lifetime, and this will carry forward the karmic consequences of actions just as they are carried forward by that stream of mental and physical events within this lifetime. There doesn't need to be a self or atman to do this, according to the Buddha.
@@DougsDharma thanks.
Doug Sir, The definition of Brahmin as per Upanishads is the one who knows the nature of Brahman- The Panenthietic concept of reality in Hinduism.
Also, Purusha Suktam never states that Brahmin originating from mouth of Purusha is greater than a Shudra. At the end, all the castes are part of Divine reality and part of Brahman and thus have divine spark.
There are stories in Chhandogya Upanishad where a chariot driver reaches a king about nature of Brahman. And a Shudra boy born to a maidservant was initiated by Rishi Haridrumat Gautama coz he was truthful about his lineage. Hinduism/Vedic Brahmanism isn't a uniform religion nor does it have a central authority. There are lots of variations in it. It's not neccessary to follow caste or untouchability in Hinduism. There is separate Upanishad- Vajrasuchika Upanishad which specifically address the issue of caste and it proclaims that caste are not birth based but karma based..
Interesting, thanks Sud. I’m responding in these videos partly to how the beliefs and practices came through in the Buddha’s day, though they are even practiced nowadays as you know. And even if all castes have ‘divine spark’, what does that say of outcastes?
@@DougsDharma Sir, Point well taken. However, the concept of Jaati(caste) and Achhut(Untouchable/outcaste) was either not there nor very negligible during Lord Buddha's time. Concept of Varna was there in Vedic times- Brahmin or Shudra is varna and not caste(jaati). Jaati is birth based identity linked to a specific profession like Kumhaar(carpenter- Would be in Shudra varna), Khandelwal(Vaishya varna), Sisodiya(A rajput- Kshatriya varna).
Also, as far as I have read, Buddha wasn't against the concept of caste as structural framework of society. He was against discrimination and privileges coming out of this framework. Please correct me in this if it's wrong.
@@DougsDharma Also Sir, Navayana(The neo-Buddhist sects started by Baba Saheb Ambedkar) is less about Buddha's teaching and more about of caste annihilation(which is good) and anti-hindu sentiments. That's the reason they clearly state that to not accept Vishnu/Shiva as god and no believe in rebirth which is the central concept of Buddhism. Coz they know that rebirth gives rise to effect of Karma and that justifies a person's birth in a house.
They squarely blame Brahmins for the decline of Buddhism in India and corruption in it but forget that a lot of past Buddhas were Brahmins themselves like Kashyapa, Kakusandha, Konagamana, Dipankar and even the upcoming Arya Maitreya too.
Apart from that the first 5 students of Gautama Buddha's sermons were Brahmins, Sriputra, Mahmaudglayana,Mahakatyayan,Mahakashyapa, were Brahmin. The chief theologians like Ashwaghosa, Nagarjuna, Kumarjiva,Dignaga,etc were also Brahmins by birth. They are to Buddhism what Paul, Augustine,Thomas Aquinas are to Christianity. Thus, destruction of Buddhism by Brahmins is a theory of anti-Caste Navayana which I don't subscribe to..
There was no brahmin or Vedas in Buddha's times.
@@Q_QQ_Q U should read Buddhcharita and Pali Canons. Buddha knew about Vedas and addresses Brahmins. The first 5 disciples of Buddhas were Brahmins, MahaKashyapa, MahaMaudgalayan, Sariputra and Mahakatyayana. One whole chapter in Dhammapada is pertaining to BrahmaVagga. Plz refer.
I could be black in the next life.
Well according to the dharma of early Buddhism any of us could, and many of us were in the past!
@@DougsDharma Yep, and instead of saying I descended from my ancestors, it would be more accurate to say I descended from my Samsaric line.
Sir would u pls reply?
Buddha say all lives matter
Wrong info... quoting selective half verses... like Brahman are born from mouth... and others are born through other parts... kindly come with right facts...
Which info is wrong? Which facts do you consider right?
I just came across you, so I'll ask here. If you made a video on this already that'd be cool. You're aware of Buddhism proper and westernized "moderation" Buddhism? Cause I see people critiquing grave misconceptions about Buddhism from time to time. Tolle isn't the only one more "orthodox" Buddhists critique. Though he's certainly the most famous and richest thanks to Oprah. I don't think Buddhism is particularly presentistic. Possibly Kantian when it comes to time not being a concept, meaning the present is as empty as past and future. I'm not claiming to be any expert so I'm sure i have my foot in my mouth here.
Hi KP, I'm not really sure I've grasped your question. One problem is that so much of what you are interested in will depend on what kind of Buddhism is under discussion. On this channel I generally discuss early Buddhism, with a contemporary flavor.
How's that relevant?? Yes I know who Pyrrho of Ellis is. He's clearly not the people I'm talking about.
Thank you for speaking on this 😭💞
You're very welcome Issa! 🙏
Hi Doug...... It is great that you spoke on " black lives matter. Very sad and shocking . I born in Sri Lanka, sadly I had to experience racism , racial riots in 1983. then in my late teens
You are focusing on events in USA, West which are non buddhist majority countries . Please read about pre dominantly Buddhist majority South Asian countries like Sri lanka ,Maymar. Does religion play a positive role to unite ethnically diverse societies , let me know ......
That is not a question that I can answer definitively Pradeep. Organized religion has bad effects as well as good.
*Buddhism Race Was Mangoloid Bcz He Was Born In Nepal 2600 Bc And This Aryans(Iran) Came In India 1500 Bc*
Iranians do not have R1a
They're J2
Buddha was Indo Aryan
We don't know exactly and we don't care, we only care about his teachings not his ethnicity
Sunga Lives Matter as well. 😁🙏🏽💗
Black lives matters a whole lot different than the black lives matter movement my friend
Provide the sources pis
Sources are all listed in the show notes.
From vinay pitaka to angutar nikaya the caste is evwrywhere in buddhism stop fooling peoole.
Are/were you jewish?
No, why?
Nice upload! I hope you'd like my videos too. Keep up the great work!
Thanks Kiana! 🙏
There was no racism or casteism in Buddha's time . There is no evidence. Kindly do not spread them as truth if your sources are of much later times.
It says that you've PhD but still talking about castes from Buddha's times. There was no caste or brahmin during Buddha's times. Your videos sounds fairy tale to me. What is the source ?
The sources are listed in the information box below the videos.
@@DougsDharma they were written much later and also there is a problem of translation . people have had translated with classical Sanskrit in mind . Kindly use Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit , not classical Sanskrit whenever there is buddhist literature in Sanskrit . If you like , kindly read Al-Biruni , he was persian who visited modern day India in 10th century and he clearly mentioned that brhamins cant read or write Vedas . they couldnt even read Dhamma script when various islamic/turkik rulers asked them to translate . their whole work is in DevNagri script which was developed later including RIgveda . Brhamins did NOT have history in India before Nagri script .
There were castes during Buddha's lifetime. They are recorded in The Pali Canon. The Pali Canon is literally the most authoritative set of texts on Buddha, his Life and his Teachings. To suggest that the facts in them are all hogwash is BS ...
@@DipayanPyne94 you must be brghamin quota people to say that . there were no caste then . brhamins were brought in 11th century by muslims thus castes were created to colonize .
@@Q_QQ_Q Not true, bro. Ancient Indian texts and foreign texts have enough evidence about the existence of Brahmans in India. They have been here for more than 2000 years.
i stopped at you misinterpreting purush sukta , vinaypitak and other buddhist texts has full caste discrimination and misogyny
caste system in buddhism- ua-cam.com/video/bzteKq85dfE/v-deo.html
and if you know hindi then there is a channel named sanatan samikha , they have completely exposed buddhist
Well this is not the gotcha u hoped for lol, we dont care or follow any random texts written by brahmin converts centuries after the buddha died but rather follow the life and actions of buddha that tried to end the injustices of the hindu based order.