Nice video! A tip for beginners amongst the audience, you are much less likely to round the bevel if you use 20-30mm strokes back and forward while moving systematically around the stone to avoid wearing the stone in one place. The short stroke gives you more control over the relationship of the bevel to the stone. You are much more likely to "roll" the bevel of the chisel from front to back very slightly as you move the chisel in a long stroke away from you and the opposite as you bring it towards you producing a slight rounding of the bevel which might affect the accuracy of the ability to pare bevel down with the chisel . This does not mean that you can't get a totally flat bevel with long strokes but I think the learning curve, pardon the pun, is steeper.
Great stuff. I'm new to Japanese chisels, so have been using this as a reference for getting the backs flat and sharpening. Was really happy with my results, but have just ordered a Kanaban to go the extra mile! Love the channel.
Micro bevel? 𝐁𝐥𝐚𝐬𝐩𝐡𝐞𝐦𝐲!! 😂 But seriously, I thought the point of the laminated softer iron on the Japanese chisels helped make sharpening the entire bevel fast and easy. The soft dark iron abrades easily and the metal edge is in itself the "micro-bevel." But for each his own. I like the back ground music, normally that drives me crazy.
@@Neverstopbuilding The original intention was to make the blade light and nimble, without sacrificing strength. In the West you would just forge the hardest stuff you were able, weight be damned. Grrrr . . .
You can use any cast iron plate the only 2 criteria are -that it is flat as a glassplate -and softer than the used steel edge that should be lapped We use a side of an old milling magnet. It is 1" thick 14" long 6" board It will rust after you have lapped the chisels or other steel on it so you should wipe it of with a oil rag. Not to oily just so that it has a ultrafine layer of protection. Why? So you dont oil accedentily your water stone when grinding of lapping slurry at the next session of lapping. A cast iron piece that is flat you can search on a fleemarket, just take a flat ruler with you and hold it against the light, when no light shines trough you found a flat piece for just a few bucks! They are sold new for over 60$ thats to much in my opinion for a just flat piece of cast iron.
Nice video NST. Very helpful. I’ve been wanting to setup a better sharpening station. Yours looked great. Your water supply line/faucet. What is that? Looked like it’s an easy on/off spout with a good flow small nozzle
Which brand of Kanaban are you using? do you have a link or can you suggest an alternative? Also, how long do you expect to remain flat? is using abrasive film stuck to granite plane acceptable?
@@Neverstopbuilding i'm just now getting into japanese chisels and would GREATLY appreciate a link list to the steel plate (mcmasters or other since I don't read japanese) and all the stones you used. This are awesomely informative vids and I want to treat these with the care they deserve
He could do that or start lower and go higher. It depends on how much metal he wants to grind away. Or on how much polish like edges he wants. There are guys that use diamondpaste polish to get a mirrorlike shine. It depends only on how much work you are willing to put in to get a flat mirror polished edge. We only polish then when a perfect wood surface is wished. So we dont go over 6000 grid on working chisels. Same with planes. When we want a finish cut we use up to 12000 and cut about 6-8 times with a blade and then resharpening starts. This cycle we repeat until we are happy with the result.
I enjoyed watching this video. I always knew there was a process for sharpening these particular chisels. What were the grits of all the stones you used and who made them?
Thanks for the info! I recently inherited my fathers old Japanese Chisels and am getting ready to sharpen them. They had a bit of rust that I went to remove and quickly realized I was removing the black finish from alot of the piece. Is there anything wrong with taking the whole piece down to bare metal? Does it serve a function to keep it black in the areas not used for current cutting? Do you have any good info on this?
The black oxide finish holds oil well so it will aid resisting corrosion better than a shiny surface. You could re blacken the entire chisel if you wanted but it will be a bit of work to get that contrast back on the back and cutting edge. Good luck and it's nice to hear you're looking after your father's tools.
I use this stuff called clover Silicon Carbide grease on chisel backs if they have those black spots near the edge,it suspends the abrasive better than stone slurry.
There are a few good reasons for let the oxidelayer on. One is rustprotection and the other is for contrast so you see good where what has been grinded away Another is the oxidelayer is slippery like teflon. I like it black because it has more style but thsts just me.
This is amazingly helpful. Thank you. Do you have any advice on choosing stones to create the slurry with the kanna ban? Will 1000 and 4000 Shapton suffice for flattening and polish or do I need to add something lower grit? Thanks again!
Well maybe 2 years later you got the answer. When not here it comes. It depends realy on the work you need to do to flat. When you want to go fast go with a flat 320 stone and then go up to polish grid like 6000-12000. What you should do in any circumstances you must use a stone flattener to work the stones flat. Then you have a flat to grind on surface. The steel will mirror with what he has been worked into shape. 320 grid you see 320 marks. 12000 grid you see almost no grindingmarks. And the wood will do the same. Cut cedar with a mirrorlike finished chisle or plane and she will look almost like a mirror. When you turn the cut into the light you can glaze upon the reflections. The higher the finish on the blade the better the finish on the wood.
Great video! Why are micro bevels controversial for Japanese iron and chisels? Ive heard theyre not to be used but cant understand why, do you know the reasoning? Thanks
People have this sacred purity obsession with Japanese tools and the worst offenders probably don’t even use them. All a micro bevel does is change the effective angle at the cutting edge. The guys in Japan are doing it… so…
@@Neverstopbuilding Yep that's what I thought! Thanks for confirming, micro bevels are just faster and smarter in general and a japanese chisel operates no differently to a Western.
Very thought provoking question. I think there is less abrasion going on with the kanaban and more polishing of a flat surface. There are circumstances where a little stone work is required too in order to get the back flat. And the solid reference steel shows where work is needed. On the bevel side you need more cutting action to remove material.
The question to ask is "who much grinds the stone away and how much grinds the lapping plate away?" While sharpening an edge with the stone each stroke breaks stoneparticles out from the stone. While lapping, on the cast iron plate, the particles get crushed and become finner. So the difference between the 2 systems is a while sharpening an edge on a stone new abrasiveparticels are relvealed on the stone. While lapping crushes the particels almost to ultrafine powder, they are used up in progress until they are made from a superhard diamondpaste or CBN. But then, with CBN, the cut out metal powder from the chisel and the cast iron plate form a film. A film/fluid/slurry that will not lapp alot metal of. At that point you work and no progress happens because all particels have around the same size and function almost like ballbearings. I wrote almost not alike ;) So to answer your question in short You can polish and sharpen your chisel with the kannaban but when you have to do alot of grindoff then a stone will cut your worktime realy realy realy down to a few minutes. While lapping only takes off a few 1/1000 millimeter grinding with a stone can take down fast 1/10mm. A stone has a much higher abrasive surface then a lapping plate.
Through repeated sharpening of the bevel, the front flat on the back of a Japanese blade will begin to disappear. The solution is to tap the layer of soft steel above the cutting edge to press the hard steel downward slightly.Its called Tapping Out. I suggest you watch it done before doing it.Fine Woodworking and Andrew Hunter. It will help you.
The result of grinding it flat is you have to grind the whole flat surface down. You dont want to go tjere believe me! The whole sense of that hollow backside is you have summed up around 30qubicmm to grind while a non hollow chisel has a 30x50mm= 1500qmm surface. You have, like mentioned, to tap the edge slightly. Dont do it without understanding what you are about to do or the hard cutting steel blade will snapoff like glass. I have been there... Not alot of fun to grind down 4mm from a broked of tip. Autsch!
Hello What about the metal plate you use ? Do you have a japanese name for that and eventually a reference where I can buy it ? For now i tried on the back of my diamond stone (called Atoma. It's a diamond sheet glued on a flat metal plate) but i'm not sure it works, because my chisel back is not polished as yours. What about diamond paste in the métal plate ?
@@CabinetFramingUK the particels in the slurry get smashed from the both steel parts it is rubbed between. The 3000 grid size aluminiomoxide crystals get mashed to fine powder and have to been refreshed after a few cycles of lapping. There is a use a form of consummation from the lapping work that is done. The castiron plate is used the slurry crystals are used and the chisel all lose. The metals lose metal that is lapped by the slurry and the slurry crystals getting smaller by been crushed between the 2 steelparts.
Thank you for going against the holy forbidden no-microbevel policy on Japanese chisels. Shouldn't the softer top, often short length and the hollow back make the Japanese chisels perfect for microbevels? Easy maintenance all round.
Thanks for your video, it was refreshing to hear some intelligent insights that don't rigidly adhere to rigid dogma on the "proper" way to sharpen a Japanese chisel. What I would like to know though, is what angle you like on your chisels and if you use that same angle on all your chisels.
I think your video is great but I'm 4 minutes in and I've noticed that you are doing what many people do which is over explain something for nobody's gain. You spent 4 minutes explaining something that you did a good job of explaining in 30 seconds. I don't mean for you too take what I'm saying and get upset but nearly stating as a viewer that you didn't need to explain yourself over and over because I understood the first time, and I'm sure most people did as well. But thank you for the video I always enjoy watching wood working tools in all aspects. Thank you
Hey! Appreciate the feedback, it's good to hear what is and what isn't working, thanks for watching. I'm trying to get better at making these videos. I hope you'll watch some of the more recent ones and let me know if there is any improvement lol. I'm bouncing around between old footage and newly shot stuff. Tying to stay away from the timelapse stuff for new videos.
You know, I just bought a set of chisels from Japan, that I haven’t set up yet. And, he’s right - there’s a little hump you need to flatten where the chisel blade joins the body of the chisel. It needs to be flattened for when the chisel is used against a jig.
Nice video! A tip for beginners amongst the audience, you are much less likely to round the bevel if you use 20-30mm strokes back and forward while moving systematically around the stone to avoid wearing the stone in one place. The short stroke gives you more control over the relationship of the bevel to the stone. You are much more likely to "roll" the bevel of the chisel from front to back very slightly as you move the chisel in a long stroke away from you and the opposite as you bring it towards you producing a slight rounding of the bevel which might affect the accuracy of the ability to pare bevel down with the chisel . This does not mean that you can't get a totally flat bevel with long strokes but I think the learning curve, pardon the pun, is steeper.
Thank you. This really helped me understand how to go about sharpening my chisel set. Much appreciated, well explained, very helpful.
Great stuff. I'm new to Japanese chisels, so have been using this as a reference for getting the backs flat and sharpening. Was really happy with my results, but have just ordered a Kanaban to go the extra mile! Love the channel.
Some hollow grind the face as well. Doing this allows much faster material removal and also assists chip removal.
Micro bevel? 𝐁𝐥𝐚𝐬𝐩𝐡𝐞𝐦𝐲!! 😂 But seriously, I thought the point of the laminated softer iron on the Japanese chisels helped make sharpening the entire bevel fast and easy. The soft dark iron abrades easily and the metal edge is in itself the "micro-bevel." But for each his own. I like the back ground music, normally that drives me crazy.
@@Neverstopbuilding The original intention was to make the blade light and nimble, without sacrificing strength. In the West you would just forge the hardest stuff you were able, weight be damned. Grrrr . . .
thats a good idea to change direction and see what the scratch marks show, thanks for taking the time to make this video :)
Where is your kanaban from? I'd like to pick up one that size.
Thanks very much for this Jason, really great talk through and demonstration, this helped me a lot :)
Awesome instructions! Articulate, easy to understand and fallow along. Please keep them coming!
Where can I buy the metal plate?
@@Neverstopbuilding link?
You can use any cast iron plate the only 2 criteria are
-that it is flat as a glassplate
-and softer than the used steel edge that should be lapped
We use a side of an old milling magnet. It is 1" thick 14" long 6" board
It will rust after you have lapped the chisels or other steel on it so you should wipe it of with a oil rag.
Not to oily just so that it has a ultrafine layer of protection. Why? So you dont oil accedentily your water stone when grinding of lapping slurry at the next session of lapping. A cast iron piece that is flat you can search on a fleemarket, just take a flat ruler with you and hold it against the light, when no light shines trough you found a flat piece for just a few bucks!
They are sold new for over 60$ thats to much in my opinion for a just flat piece of cast iron.
Great information. Thank you very much for sharing.
Excellent though I would say you might consider turning your stone 180 deg while sharpening. Thank you.
where did you buy the metal plate from? Lovely video
Top tips! Thanks.
Hi there. Nice video. Can you do a video on tapping out the bottom? Thanks
Nice video NST. Very helpful. I’ve been wanting to setup a better sharpening station. Yours looked great. Your water supply line/faucet. What is that? Looked like it’s an easy on/off spout with a good flow small nozzle
thanks for the great video! wondering without the metal plate if the stones themselves would suffice for flattening the backside?
Which brand of Kanaban are you using? do you have a link or can you suggest an alternative? Also, how long do you expect to remain flat? is using abrasive film stuck to granite plane acceptable?
@@Neverstopbuilding i'm just now getting into japanese chisels and would GREATLY appreciate a link list to the steel plate (mcmasters or other since I don't read japanese) and all the stones you used. This are awesomely informative vids and I want to treat these with the care they deserve
Thanks. I got a 6 chisel set. This is helpful. You went from 1k stone to 10K?
He could do that or start lower and go higher. It depends on how much metal he wants to grind away. Or on how much polish like edges he wants. There are guys that use diamondpaste polish to get a mirrorlike shine. It depends only on how much work you are willing to put in to get a flat mirror polished edge. We only polish then when a perfect wood surface is wished. So we dont go over 6000 grid on working chisels. Same with planes. When we want a finish cut we use up to 12000 and cut about 6-8 times with a blade and then resharpening starts. This cycle we repeat until we are happy with the result.
this is SO great. thank you!!!
Man's got good taste in music.
I enjoyed watching this video. I always knew there was a process for sharpening these particular chisels. What were the grits of all the stones you used and who made them?
HI is there a link to the chisels you are using
I was reminded to like the video...by the Bach BGM :)
Very educational video
Thanks for the info! I recently inherited my fathers old Japanese Chisels and am getting ready to sharpen them. They had a bit of rust that I went to remove and quickly realized I was removing the black finish from alot of the piece. Is there anything wrong with taking the whole piece down to bare metal? Does it serve a function to keep it black in the areas not used for current cutting? Do you have any good info on this?
The black oxide finish holds oil well so it will aid resisting corrosion better than a shiny surface. You could re blacken the entire chisel if you wanted but it will be a bit of work to get that contrast back on the back and cutting edge. Good luck and it's nice to hear you're looking after your father's tools.
I use this stuff called clover Silicon Carbide grease on chisel backs if they have those black spots near the edge,it suspends the abrasive better than stone slurry.
There are a few good reasons for let the oxidelayer on.
One is rustprotection and the other is for contrast so you see good where what has been grinded away
Another is the oxidelayer is slippery like teflon.
I like it black because it has more style but thsts just me.
This is amazingly helpful. Thank you. Do you have any advice on choosing stones to create the slurry with the kanna ban? Will 1000 and 4000 Shapton suffice for flattening and polish or do I need to add something lower grit? Thanks again!
Well maybe 2 years later you got the answer. When not here it comes.
It depends realy on the work you need to do to flat. When you want to go fast go with a flat 320 stone and then go up to polish grid like 6000-12000.
What you should do in any circumstances you must use a stone flattener to work the stones flat. Then you have a flat to grind on surface. The steel will mirror with what he has been worked into shape. 320 grid you see 320 marks.
12000 grid you see almost no grindingmarks. And the wood will do the same. Cut cedar with a mirrorlike finished chisle or plane and she will look almost like a mirror. When you turn the cut into the light you can glaze upon the reflections. The higher the finish on the blade the better the finish on the wood.
Great video! Why are micro bevels controversial for Japanese iron and chisels? Ive heard theyre not to be used but cant understand why, do you know the reasoning? Thanks
People have this sacred purity obsession with Japanese tools and the worst offenders probably don’t even use them. All a micro bevel does is change the effective angle at the cutting edge. The guys in Japan are doing it… so…
@@Neverstopbuilding Yep that's what I thought! Thanks for confirming, micro bevels are just faster and smarter in general and a japanese chisel operates no differently to a Western.
to create a perfectly flat plate you need three identical plates label them A
If you live in the 50s. 3 wonky surfaces will not result in a perfectly flat surface. It will just get you the best of a bad situation
What nano hone stone are you using?
I'm wondering why don't you use the kanaban for sharpening the bevel side of the chisel?
Very thought provoking question. I think there is less abrasion going on with the kanaban and more polishing of a flat surface. There are circumstances where a little stone work is required too in order to get the back flat. And the solid reference steel shows where work is needed. On the bevel side you need more cutting action to remove material.
The question to ask is "who much grinds the stone away and how much grinds the lapping plate away?"
While sharpening an edge with the stone each stroke breaks stoneparticles out from the stone.
While lapping, on the cast iron plate, the particles get crushed and become finner.
So the difference between the 2 systems is a while sharpening an edge on a stone new abrasiveparticels are relvealed on the stone.
While lapping crushes the particels almost to ultrafine powder, they are used up in progress until they are made from a superhard diamondpaste or CBN.
But then, with CBN, the cut out metal powder from the chisel and the cast iron plate form a film.
A film/fluid/slurry that will not lapp alot metal of. At that point you work and no progress happens because all particels have around the same size and function almost like ballbearings. I wrote almost not alike ;)
So to answer your question in short
You can polish and sharpen your chisel with the kannaban but when you have to do alot of grindoff then a stone will cut your worktime realy realy realy down to a few minutes.
While lapping only takes off a few 1/1000 millimeter grinding with a stone can take down fast 1/10mm.
A stone has a much higher abrasive surface then a lapping plate.
Is there a name for that kind of flat sink you're sharpening in?
I think it’s called a bar or prep sink, I found something similar in the states at a restaurant supply store
hi, how did you organise a apprenticeship in japan? my father was a carpenter in japan for 15 years and i would like to go work there too
What happens when you wear the chisel down to the point of the grind on the back of the chisel?
Through repeated sharpening of the bevel, the front flat on the back of a Japanese blade will begin to disappear. The solution is to tap the layer of soft steel above the cutting edge to press the hard steel downward slightly.Its called Tapping Out. I suggest you watch it done before doing it.Fine Woodworking and Andrew Hunter. It will help you.
The result of grinding it flat is you have to grind the whole flat surface down. You dont want to go tjere believe me! The whole sense of that hollow backside is you have summed up around 30qubicmm to grind while a non hollow chisel has a 30x50mm= 1500qmm surface.
You have, like mentioned, to tap the edge slightly. Dont do it without understanding what you are about to do or the hard cutting steel blade will snapoff like glass.
I have been there... Not alot of fun to grind down 4mm from a broked of tip. Autsch!
Hello
What about the metal plate you use ? Do you have a japanese name for that and eventually a reference where I can buy it ? For now i tried on the back of my diamond stone (called Atoma. It's a diamond sheet glued on a flat metal plate) but i'm not sure it works, because my chisel back is not polished as yours.
What about diamond paste in the métal plate ?
@@Neverstopbuilding I'd love to know how this works in practice! as surely the stone grit is wearing away the mild steel plate at the same time?
@@CabinetFramingUK the particels in the slurry get smashed from the both steel parts it is rubbed between.
The 3000 grid size aluminiomoxide crystals get mashed to fine powder and have to been refreshed after a few cycles of lapping.
There is a use a form of consummation from the lapping work that is done.
The castiron plate is used the slurry crystals are used and the chisel all lose.
The metals lose metal that is lapped by the slurry and the slurry crystals getting smaller by been crushed between the 2 steelparts.
How does metal polish metal with only water .
The softer steel rubs into particles
@@Neverstopbuilding So does that mean I can't have a kanaban made out of stainless steel?
I didn't understand. Why didn't you use the yellow stone, or a stone, to get a shiny back? Could'nt you get a shiny back with a stone?
A dull chisel is a dangerous chisel.
Loved the video and for the thorough explanation, I thank you.
All the water you wasted makes me sad.
Glad you enjoyed it
I was thinking the same.
Thank you for going against the holy forbidden no-microbevel policy on Japanese chisels. Shouldn't the softer top, often short length and the hollow back make the Japanese chisels perfect for microbevels? Easy maintenance all round.
Thanks for your video, it was refreshing to hear some intelligent insights that don't rigidly adhere to rigid dogma on the "proper" way to sharpen a Japanese chisel. What I would like to know though, is what angle you like on your chisels and if you use that same angle on all your chisels.
@@Neverstopbuilding Thank you.
I think your video is great but I'm 4 minutes in and I've noticed that you are doing what many people do which is over explain something for nobody's gain. You spent 4 minutes explaining something that you did a good job of explaining in 30 seconds. I don't mean for you too take what I'm saying and get upset but nearly stating as a viewer that you didn't need to explain yourself over and over because I understood the first time, and I'm sure most people did as well. But thank you for the video I always enjoy watching wood working tools in all aspects. Thank you
Hey! Appreciate the feedback, it's good to hear what is and what isn't working, thanks for watching. I'm trying to get better at making these videos. I hope you'll watch some of the more recent ones and let me know if there is any improvement lol. I'm bouncing around between old footage and newly shot stuff. Tying to stay away from the timelapse stuff for new videos.
This would be perfect if you had OCD.
4:16 You are wearing the shaft . It's too far on the stone . you are going crazy .
You know, I just bought a set of chisels from Japan, that I haven’t set up yet. And, he’s right - there’s a little hump you need to flatten where the chisel blade joins the body of the chisel. It needs to be flattened for when the chisel is used against a jig.
You are meant to flatten the small ridge between the blade and the start of the shaft.
@@ahikernamedgq thanks . I did not know this.
dont waste water
What are you talking about?
@@Neverstopbuilding I have never seen anyone use so much water to sharp one chisel. Close the faucet more often bro.
@@brankomilanovic3877 can you quantify how water is wasted? Like on a well, for example, how much electricity did I use there?