Rebel Moon is the Most Zack Snyder Movie - and That's a Good Thing | The Backdrop
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
- It’s nearly Christmas. A time of charity, festivity and goodwill towards all. Of
course, in that spirit, we’re going to be talking about... Zack Snyder.
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Darren: "I am better than that"
Narrator: He was, in fact, not better than that.
Hm. Look at this cake, that I have. It’s next to the one that I have eaten!😂
@@Darren_Mooney😂😅
Love what you do man, keep it up!
Y'know what's funny? ever since the whole thing with The Escapist I have not once thought about that channel, you guys really were the only reason I was even subbed to that place lmao
"I'm not a movie reviewer"
*does a better analysis than moviebob's entire career*
The Escapist was really leaning hard on a few good talents, weren't they?
Sounds like: Was Dune too slow? Was Valerian too fast? Wait till you taste both at once!
Ah, Valerian. Couldn't live up to its own intro.
I love valerian, its not very good and the main characters are terribly miscast but i just like the world building and how crazy it is. Guilty pleasure for sure.
@@RusPitman big agree. Splitting the difference between it and Sun (or Fifth Element and Dune) would make a lot of really awful movies was hopefully my point
@@robesdebah4811 I get your point for sure, judging by the trailer valerian + dune is pretty accurate and an awkward combination.
But friend, Fifth Element is a proper 'just right' movie in my book
The commentary during the credits roll was great and no one skip it if you love Darren's commentary!
Thanks. That was an ad-lib for Omar, I wasn’t sure if it was worth leaving in, but I hope people like that he did.
(Omar and Jesse are credited as editors. But they do a phenomenal amount of shaping the series, and I can’t praise them enough.)
I definitely want more of it! I didn't close out at the credits this time.
@@Darren_Mooney That was a genius move. Hope it's gonna become a norm.
This movie was genuinely hysterical to watch. Like… it’s as if every single meme or joke about Snyder’s awful filmmaking was taken as a guide.
Whoever is responsible for dropping The Rap Critic's "Orc Cop" into this is my favourite person right now.
Great essay Darren! Glad to still get your analysis!
All Omar. His edit here (and elsewhere) is phenomenal.
Watching a Darren's video has always felt like sitting with an old friend for a couple minutes to hear him talk about the series or movies he watched that week. He tells you his opinion, makes a couple jokes, doesn't condescend but explains, and in the end smiles and listen to your reaction. And i care, thanks for saying.
Aw, this means a lot to me. It’s really lovely. Thank you.
As a Creator myself, this is a fine example of creative freedom versus traditional creative guidelines. Someone once told me that if you understand the rules, then you are allowed to break them, but with Zack Snyder, I don't think he really gives a crap about the rules. Like Yahtzee once said, "Is it really necessary to use oil paints on a canvas when you can use, say, ground-up teeth mixed with pus?"
I feel like you might have hit upon part of why The Last Jedi is so divisive. I think it was the first Star Wars film in a while where it took the "ripoff, don't remake" approach by and large. It also had Rian Johnson's thumbprint more visible on it. So while it feels (to me) much, much closer to the original trilogy I imagine a lot of people were jarred by it *not* "feeling like Star Wars" (the modern brand). It was its own thing within the canon.
Also, I'm really happy to see how fair you were to Snyder. He seems like a genuinely good dude, and I don't think I've seen anybody who worked with him that spoke badly about him. It's honestly too bad he didn't get to film an official Star Wars movie because I think his style would actually fit really well with what Star Wars was built on - references, archetypes, the hero's journey, and amazing visuals.
Yep. It’s doing so much of what Lucas did with the original “Star Wars.”
Darren,
I think we all want a list of your favorite Japanese movies. Especially since these fantastic episodes are talking about the influence of Japanese cinema
Ha! As I say in those episodes, I’m really not an expert in Japanese cinema.
I’m afraid it would be clichés, all 101 stuff! “Yojimbo”, “Sanjuro”, “Throne of Blood”, “Hari-Kiri”, “Ringu”, “Audition” (still gives me nightmares), “Battle Royale”, “Godzilla”, “Shin Godzilla” and then “Dersu Uzala”, if that counts. And obviously so much Ghibli, and “Akira.” (Anime is a blindspot for me.)
@@Darren_Mooney Also by Kurosawa, High and Low (Tengoku to Jigoku) is a very good mystery/detective movie about a kidnapping. The Samurai Trilogy, about Miyamoto Musashi's life (or at least the legends about him) is very good.
@@Darren_Mooney Hey, nothing wrong with Ghibli and "Akira".
Zack Snyder wanted to make his own Star Wars, but ended up accidentally remaking Battle Beyond The Stars. Honestly, I'm good with that.
That's true... I swear, even Star Wars ripped off Seven Samurai at least twice.
I'm sure there are other classic Japanese movies they can make Space Opera knockoffs of.
Thank you! It' seen boxing my melon that nobody has been mentioning Battle Beyond the Stars here.
John Boy Walton. IN SPAAAAAAAAAACEEEEEEEE
@@akl2k7 George Lucas said that Akira Kurosawa was one of of his main inspirations.
I'm not a huge fan of Snyder, but this looks kinda cool. Derivative af, but it's still LOOKS kinda cool
Oh, absolutely derivative. But, then again so was the original“Star Wars.”
(This is, hopefully obviously, nowhere near as good as the original “Star Wars.” Few things are.)
"Derivative as fuck" is a slightly mean but not inaccurate way to describe almost all of Snyder's work.
He is astoundingly good with visuals, and not much else. Like a worse Michael Bay.
@@Pyre I think it's more about choices rather than objective, filmmaker good/bad his extended cuts show he is capable of handling character development as well as the aesthetic side of things, I just think his theatrical cuts show, firstly a lack of efficiency at achieving both simultaneously, but secondly when forced to choose which he seemingly values higher.
Originality and sincerity are due for a comeback.
maybe next time
rebel moon and originality
Nice touch with Darren talking during patrons roll. I never skip it on Second Wind videos so it's a welcome change to have something to listen to during that segment, other than ending music c:
The fact that he didn't get to make a Star Wars film actually makes me want to watch this thing.
It was a failed pitch. It had everything that Disney Lucasfilm wanted in their Trilogy, and yet, they STILL passed on it.
Yep. I’m not being snarky here, it’s nice to get back to the tradition of basically taking some stuff you like, throwing it in a blender, and putting your stamp on it.
You know, the logic that gave us “Star Wars” to start with.
It would be a garbage film
@@nohbuddy1 Maybe. It'll be good music video fodder, though. That is Snyder's specialty.
Yeah honestly feel the same way. Star Wars is retired as far as I’m concerned. I want new blockbuster IPs in the industry.
Before Second Wind: I guess I'll watch Zero Punctuation
After Second Wind: I'M GONNA WATCH ALL OF IT
Hope you enjoy!
Oh, I was so happy to hear a snippet of RC's Orc Cop! It's a delicious rap.
I'm loving this vids so much. Darren and the editor are really funny
Omar’s edit is wonderful.
I appreciate you tried to stay respectful even if you aren't into his movies. I'm a Snyder fan so I can't wait to watch this one!
Same!
I was not ready for that 'Bright' orc joke
90% of it was Omar, who - along with Jesse - is the unsung hero of the series.
Thanks for this Darren 🙏 I generally like what I've seen from Snyder. That said, I really don't feel like I have a dog in this fight so I'll just keep watching movies whenever I get around to them 😋 Cheers man and Happy Holidays! 🍻😁
Thanks, and to you and yours!
Yay! So glad to see you here Darren! I was missing your drop in the frames of movies 😁
Although I don't really like Snyder movies, I completely agree with you: it's great to have someone like Snyder that has a vision and wants to always push it to farther places
One of the few reviews that is actually positive. Most say it's bland and derivative.
@@SlitheringpeanutTo be fair, I don’t know that I’d call the review “positive.”
“It’s not great, it may not even be good…”
Ha! Glad to be here! Hope you enjoy!
lol@ Shot in the style of a shaving commercial.
I thought it was funny!
Shot in the style of a shaving commercial is one of the best lines I’ve heard this month
I went in with no expectations, and I enjoyed it.
Its great that you guys cover film
Hack Snyder Slo-Mo Fest: Star Wars Ripoff Edition
I love that audiences are getting more of a choice again.
However the 90s style rip offs you mentioned were also bolstered by being of a time you could switch on the TV on a Wednesday evening, land halfway through one of those films and feel both like it didnt matter that you missed half of it, but still engHed enough to watch the rest. I wonder how the next wave of "rip off dont remake" will cope with the change that streaming audiences cant stumble upon them so easily and need to actively opt in.
Snyder's style isn't one I typically vibe with, but he undeniably has a style that is specifically him and I think that's important to praise
Yep. I don’t ever have to watch these movies again, but the fact that they exist makes it more likely that there will be other movies that I do love made.
Great video. You guys are crushing it.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed!
I've always had the same opinion as you about Snyder. Validation is always nice (?).
I'm looking forward to watching it online soon. I like this genre when done well.
Nice to see you back, Darren.
Glad to be back, baby! We’ve already released two “Backdrop” episodes. Check them out, if you like!
In a time where entertainment is more and more reduced to a formula, it's important to appreciate people who can make their own thing.
That's why I'm following kojima around, or suda51 or yoko taro
This was just excellent observation and commentary - well done. The wave has crested and I think the trough is done - we're about to go in a different creative direction. I've always believed popular culture shifts on the fives (mid-decade), so we'll see.
I'm excited to see this, of only because (as you said) it looks interesting.
As far as Snyder goes. I've wanted to see what he could create if he had a really long format series. He always seems to try and jam too much in too little time (even when his movies are too long). I want to see some if those stories broken up into chewable chunks.
I’m imagining something like Nicholas Winding Refn’s Amazon show.
I’m not against it.
I respect you're being open about your struggles with Russel jokes, Darren. We've all been there.
I didn't mean to Crowe about it.
Dude i can't explain how much you nail it on how i feel about the movie, as a Snyder fan i know this movie isn't perfect, really far from being Zack's best, but is great that exist, i love what represents, not just for blockbusters but for Snyder himself. A confort movie for the filmaker rather than the audience
Also @Darren mooney interesting thing is that the co-writer on Rebel Moon is the same guy who wrote John wick 4. However JW4 has Chad stehelski a guy who was beside other directors and learned the best of their abilities and was able to refrain from their worst tendescies when he decided to become a director.
For me Snyder falls into the George Lucas category of creatives who have really good concepts but need a ton of people having the guts to tell them no or alter their vision, when their good concepts becomes increasingly self indulgent and just bad. Most Hollywood directors fall into this category like M night Shaymalan, Gareth edwards, Ridley scott & most importantly The Wachowskis.
Love this video essay mate
Thanks! Very glad with how it came out. Credit to Omar for an amazing edit.
I appreciate you pointing out that franchise fatigue isn't just a Disney thing.
The problems going on with its series are problems the rest of Hollywood is having, and Disney is honestly navigating those issues better than most of the other studios. Their company image has just put them in the public eye more, so they get to be the focus of everyone's ire.
I am so tired on the Marvel is doomed or Star Wars is in the trash takes. The reality is Marvel is now at the same stage of quality as Phase 2, and people are tired of it. And Star Wars is arguably doing better now than before the sale, but it's more in the public eye now because it's releasing more live-action stuff.
That was an interesting take. Thank you.
Snyder is a really weird director for me. I don't think he's a particularly good director, I probably dislike more of his films than I like, but there's such a specific style and unflinching vision in his movies that even when I *know* one of his movies is gonna be bad, I still wanna root for him cuz I think there's a real effort and desire in his work, in a way a lot of other directors don't have.
He also just seems like a nice guy, and he seems to have a good sense of humor about himself. It's almost like he knows he's not a good filmmaker, but he doesn't care, because as long as he's able to get the budget, he'll make whatever the fuck he wants, good or bad, and I respect that kinda energy.
This'll sound unfair, but frankly I don't think he's that smart... It comes across in his films, I reckon, but I'm more talking about his interviews and especially how he responds to certain criticisms.
His critical faculties are--- flawed, let's say... Often revealing that he hasn't seemed to truly think the issue through. I think Watchmen is one big testament to that. I just don't think he understands it, and his end product essentially contradicts Alan Moore's point.
That said, for years I thought I hated his work, but I ended up similar to your position. He's still very capable of making hot trash, though. I think BvS is irredeemably bad. But I really liked his 4hr Justice League cut. And I *think* I'm a defender of Sucker Punch - it's just I've not seen it for so damn long I'm not sure what I'd make of it now.
I heard that zombie film was awful, which was a real shame as that felt like such a great fit for him, and I really like Dave Bautista.
Rebel Moon rather seems far too derivative, but I guess I'll briefly sub to Netflix once the longer cut comes out, as I do want to see it.
@SabiJD I agree that he seems far more interested in aesthetic flair than he is in the actual messaging and thematic depth, but I do appreciate his eye for the dramatic, nonetheless.
For example, I feel like BvS is comprised of like, 80% individually good scenes, great lines of dialogue, incredible shot composition, and stellar action, but the connective tissue between all those individual scenes is thin at best, or broken at worst. It's weird how much about BvS I remember and actually enjoy, but rewatching is a true slog (his director's cut both alleviates and exacerbates a lot of the flaws of the theatrical cut. I'd say it's more coherent and overall enjoyable, but still extremely messy and fundamentally flawed). It doesn't help that David S. Goyer wrote BvS, who is a decent writer, but has publicly stated he struggles on how to connect his story threads. I think I remember seeing an interview where he said he often comes up with the big dramatic moments first, then works backwards, but I could be misremembering.
I think Snyder is the kinda guy that *could* make good movies, great movies even, if he worked with far better writers and producers, and had people willing to tone down his excesses. He's kinda like George Lucas (although far less interesting to analyze). They both have the capacity to make enjoyable movies, but without a guiding hand, they both devolve into self-indulgent nonsense.
I'm excited to see it
I have a long history of getting excited about new scf-fi movies, in their own setting, and coming out somewhat dissatisfied. But then often enjoying it more in retrospect or on a second viewing.
I was subconsciously ready for the Seven Samurai tone from the trailer. But I'm glad to be forwarded about the Star Warsiness and Arthurianess. I'm still keen to watch it, and with expectations set, I think I'll have an okay (if not good) time with it.
Hey, this has been quite interesting and insightful. I like it.
Thank you!
06:41 "..leave the meeting via the nearest window.." cracked me up.
Sucker Punch was a cool movie and I liked it.
Wait, Snyder did Sucker Punch?! I remember really enjoying that movie. Perhaps I should go watch it again.
It's a much smarter movie than it gets credit for. Every fantasy scene is the lead disassociating. It's creepy, leery, and objectifying...because that is exactly what's going on. The actors are all brilliant in it.
That was a movie I had to rewatch to fully appreciate. It's not perfect, but it's bold AF... which is kind of a Snyder staple, at this point.
“Sucker Punch” is another movie I admire much more than I enjoy.
I don’t know that it works, but it is, frankly, insane that that movie exists.
I honestly can't remember if I enjoyed Sucker Punch or not. Maybe I should try re-watching it.
@@holdenhodgdon3756 technically it’s an extended cut but not a real director’s cut.
Snyder has said he’s close to being able to put out an actual R-rated director’s cut.
Fascinating video, but giving Zach Snyder creative freedom for the argument that hollywood needs new material FEELS TO ME LIKE arguing microplastics are good for the tuna industrial because plastics can be considered an indigestible dietary fiber
In fairness, what if Star Wars but Seven Samurai was pretty much the pitch for Roger Corman's Battle Beyond the Stars.
But no arthurian legend or shaving add look in that one.
Unfortunately the end result came out more like The Three Amigos minus the comedy.
Glad these are in video form now, I've been missing out!
Glad you enjoyed!
"I may not agree with Zack Snyder, but I will fight to the death his right to exist."
Voltaire. If he hit the gym. In slow motion.
thanks again
Very thought provoking 👍
Thank you!
"not necessarily good but interesting" is the perfect type of movie for a streaming service IMO.
EDIT: Watched the movie, it's objectively not good and what should be the "bad but interesting" stuff isn't interesting because it's the same issues Snyder has had in every movie. So it's only interesting if you've never seen a Snyder film before. I still stand that being interesting is better than being good, but Rebel Moon Part One is neither.
It is not even good for falling asleep to.
Great video, and great breakdown. I fucking love this guy.
I have no vested interest in the “Snyderverse” discourse, and I’m glad he left the sometimes gross fandom out of this video discussion.
But I do wish when looking back at Snyder’s trajectory - there was a mention of Sucker Punch. It was (in my memory of his history) the first time we got to see him do a completely original thing. And there are many pieces of Sucker Punch that can be criticized, it was the most “comic book” movie that wasn’t attached to an IP I’ve ever seen. The action was great, the narrative was engaging, the cast was excellent… and the music was just indescribably amazing. Getting an ensemble of musicians to cover known tracks in their specific music style was such a cool thing I’ve never seen done better. I found one of my favorite musicians in the world because of that movie. And I think there’s something to be said that he made an original “Snyder” movie in between the adaptations and the big budget adaptations.
The issue with “Sucker Punch” - or really any individual Snyder project - is that you could very easily spend ten minutes on it. Particularly because you’d have to get into things like “the Male Gaze”, Laura Mulvey, concepts like “narrative substitution” and the myriad factors that make that movie (whatever one thinks of it) unique in the contemporary blockbuster landscape.
I don't know how but you have convenced me to try a Snyder movie in a bid to confront my western cenema burnout. Good job.
Great stuff! This is my first of your videos, and I loved it :-) Looking-forward to more :-) That said, here's some corrections and additions:
- George Lucas was most heavily influenced to create Star Wars by Star Trek. He's a huge Trekkie and has been since he was little. But, he wanted to make "Star Trek, but as a western!".
- Snyder's Cut of Justice League is beautiful, yes, buuuut, a lot of people don't realise that a *huge* chunk of the original film was, indeed, his. Joss Whedon barely added or changed anything that Snyder has made at all. It's just that Snyder saw the huge backlash for the original and read the fan feedback etc and decided to re-write it, add loads, remove loads, etc, to make it better. But ye, he is a big part of why the original is "bad" (for the record, I love the original lol). So, people saying the first film is awful but being "Snyhards" for "Snyder's version" really don't get that they're insulting their movie Director God when they insult the original ;-p
- Rebel Moon did, indeed, start-out life as a Star Wars pitch. However, firstly, he was not turned down. They wanted to make his movie, but after the fan reception for the spin-offs, prequels etc movies and the sequels, they cancelled tonnes of projects, and his was one of them.
- Another Rebel Moon one. This movie is actually part of Snyder's "Netflix Snyderverse", and shares continuity with Army Of The Dead and Army Of Thieves. He has said that the anime that is currently sitting in production hell (it's been animated, voiced, etc, but is "on hold, indefinitely" at present) - Army Of The Dead: Lost Vegas - is set chronologically between Planet Of The Dead (the upcoming Army Of The Dead sequel) and Rebel Moon: Child Of Fire aka Part One.
7:47 No, people aren't tired of the brands they're tired of the bad stories.
I'd argue that mismanagement and bad writing is killing franchises, not fatigue. Of course it has a cumulative affect which leads to growing cynicism, but if an incredible, top tier Marvel movie came along I'm pretty sure it would revitalize the franchise. At least right up to the inevitable moment that execs meddled in the next movie/show/whatever.
Part of the issue (for Marvel) is that they're constantly moving things around within the story, right up until release. They shoot a tonne of options, and even have whole sequences fully completed, and then decide to change or tweak things so that it can tee up the NEXT thing. It's super hard to have a coherent story when small but vital parts of the cloth can be changed around like that, and the result is frequently a pretty lacklustre story. Fiege's said pretty much this himself lately, where because so much of the storytelling is happening in post-production, the overall project suffers, and it's part of the reason they've decided to scale back their releases and change tact on the Dis+ shows. I think the whole thing with Jonathan Majors also exposed a huge flaw in their model too, because having a single entity within the universe be utterly central to EVERY story they try to tell, if that ends up not working or having to be removed then the whole house of cards collapses.
i think part of the issue for marvel is that their movies were wearing out their welcome by the time endgame dropped. theyve told their story...they could have ended it there on a high note. theyre now just milking this franchise to death. no one asked for a hawkeye or falcon show. wandavision ended up being a hit, loki everyone wanted, but idk if its the show people actually wanted. i think they are literally just throwing paint at the wall to see what sticks. hell, even with the movies, i got tired of marvel movies before endgame came out. i ended up having to watch them all before i hit the theatre with my girlfriend (who is an avid mcu fan)...boy i tell you, i was tired of marvel movies by the time i got to that damn theatre. the last thing i wanted to do was sit there and watch she hulk, the marvels, etc etc. @@hollandscottthomas
@@furraikenx220 I can totally understand that! And especially if you were shotgunning them all so close together, I totally get how that would be exhausting. I followed them from the start, and back then it was one, MAYBE two a year, and streaming services didn’t have them all on immediate demand so it always kinda felt like an event.
I think NWH and GotG3 were the last ones that really felt that way, because they were closing their respective trilogies.
I liked some of the Dis+ shows, but usually only the ones that weren’t “critical” to understand any of the bigger stories. Like, She-Hulk is silly and light and just does its own thing off to the side. Great! But then Secret Invasion was an absolute trainwreck of ideas that SHOULD have rippled out into their whole universe but just never did anything. I dunno, I think it can be fun again, but we need a break lol
Darren, your knowledge on movies is truly terrifying (in a good way, believe it or not!)
Ha! I'm just a dude who loves movies!
Jupiter Ascending, Valerian, Rebel Moon…
I really liked The Creator. It wasn't original, but I still liked it.
Haven't gotten around to seeing Rebel Moon yet since my wife would wonder why we have went from Christmas Vacation or A Christmas Story to this dark stylish space fantasy lol. This feels like a day after Christmas movie.
I'm just going to wait for the director's cut of Rebel Moon. Snyder is a man who can't edit or restrain himself. He is best enjoyed when he is allowed to indulge and make the full thing he wants to.
Summer is the release date for at least first movie's director's cut, if you can wait that's cool. I'm too excited to wait, and don't want to spoil the movie, so I'll watch pg-13 version first then the ultimate cut of both movies later :)
Loving second wind. Congrats everyone
The core problem with Rebel Moon is that they hit the end of act 2 and just dropped right into a final battle. Everything else is a matter of taste.
I was on my way to sign my life insurance policy while playing this video and "...the Equilizer Three, or the Threequilizer..." happened and killed me. Just my luck.
They should just let me name movies.
I mean, nobody will go see them, but they’ll be great names.
@@Darren_Mooney You're the hero the naming industry (and Yahtzee) needs, but not the one that it ever wants :(
I hear a lot of "Audiences are tired of xxxxx"... Which, I mean, yeah probably. But I feel like it's less a matter of things getting stale, and more... the movies just not being good. Like, Spiderverse 2 and Guardians 3 show people still like super hero movies... they just have to be good. Andor showed people still like Star Wars... it just has to be good.
I heard after Barbie's success, Mattel immediately decided they were gonna make a bunch of movies based on old toys... which misses the point of why Barbie was popular.... because it was really, really good. (And got lucky with some free viral marketing)
Yeah, I really don't think that rationale (franchise fatigue) fully works here, re superhero/comicbook stuff.
I have all but one (or two?) MCU films of the Infinity Saga sitting on my shelves, but the MCU has been aimless and variously incompetent ever since. I loved Wakanda Forever, as I thought it was fantastic. Loki S2 was superb.
But it feels like the quality control nosedived, and there is no vision. Quantumania was just *woeful*... They also over saturated with the shows, which - despite Loki S2 - I feel have been a big mistake for the whole MCU.
I *want* to be excited for The Marvels. Or Falcon as Captain America. But I have no trust in the direction or quality. *That's* the problem.
So yeah, whilst saturation is certainly an issue, it isn't the main one.
Wait so even this movie is going to have a directors cut?!
#ReleaseTheEvenSnydererCut
I laughed at the Bright joke
Chuffed with that. Omar really made it pop.
Snyder would make a better director of photography than director.
He really wouldn't if seen his movies he's done dp on.
For context he was dp in the army of the dead where made some terrible lens choices.
@@murphy7801 Yes but he was also the director. He means Zack should be the DoP on somebody else's film
If you want it to look like ass yeah
I’ve said this for a while and I always get hate for it, but beautiful scenes don’t make a movie.
What's this you say about the crew of Diamonds Are Forever? Is there a Cold Take on that subject that my web searches are failing to reveal unto me?
To be fair. It was a cheap shot and an easy joke.
I never liked Snyder but I'm still excited for Rebel Moon just for some dumb crazy spectacle. I don't like it when a directors cut is required for a movie to be good. Even Zack Snyders "best" movies I've always found to be just okay. The only thing I like about his work is that he occassionally gives us something iconic and memorable. His weird obsession with everything being bronze tinted has always put me off. But this will be a fun one to get blazed and have a laugh with.
At least he takes risks, even if they never really result in something great.
IMO Zack Snyder is a fine director, but a terrible story teller / script writer. He has the ideas of a 12 year old boy from the 80s and all the maturity of one too.
Giving him too much script power is definitely a mistake.
Gods yes. He's actually quite skilled as a director, using good camera angles and cinematography tricks to tell a story through action in settings that I can only describe as epic, but I've never liked him as a writer. I feel he would get more praise and respect if he worked with adapting good stories to film.
Eh, as a Snyder agnostic, I see it as a package deal, one inseparable from another. He’s not credited on the scripts for several of his movies, but the stories he tells are inseparable, I’d argue, from how he tells them.
Even “Man of Steel”, the least Snyder-y of his scripts (it’s very Nolan-y in structure, themes, motifs) is still recognisably Snyder-esque because of his techniques. It’s also - I’d argue - his weakest film because his sensibility really doesn’t click with Nolan’s, as much as the two love and value each other.
Agreed, his best films are based on stories written by others.
@@inteligentidiot7233 Not entirely, Army of the Dead was what happened when he had to total control; From directing and cinematography, and that shit was ugly as hell.
I've been saying this for years, the guy can create some impressive cinematic moments. On the other hand, the dialogue, characters, and story are subpar. Rebel Moon shows exactly this for better or worse.
Sure, you can appreciate the fact that Snyder is trying to do his own thing,
the problem is that "his own thing" is not very good. (shallowly derivative and narratively unfocused)
Happy to get some space adventures not owned by disney (yet). This said, I'm waiting until the director's cut. I just don't see the point in watching a movie that is basically announced as an incomplete version.
2:17 - 2:34
I have so many takes like this. Pineapple on pizza is - wait for it - fine.
I regret I have but one like to give this video.
It’s enough. (And thank you! It means a lot.)
@@Darren_Mooney But would you say it is....Kenough?
@@Vilamus It’s comments like this when make it doll worthwhile. (I’m trying to match your Kenergy.)
Two days ago I stumbled across a video here on youtube saying, and I quote, "this must be one of the worst films I have ever seen and Zack Snyder should retire" 😅😂
Great analysis as always, Mr. Mooney. However, it doesn't say too much for the quality of the movie that you devoted more time to the meta analysis behind the movie, than anything you saw on screen.
Ha. It’s one of those things where I’m smart enough to understand that nothing I say will convince people either way.
As I point out in the video, my take is that it’s cut to ribbons, thin on character, occasionally bordering on incoherent, but also refreshingly weird, tactile, textured and committed. It averages out to a movie that I admire but don’t love, and is far from the worst blockbuster I have seen this year.
I suspected spending more time on it would just make the comment section into a war zone on both sides, and distract from what I found interesting about it, which I hope was more constructive and engaging.
Nice talk
I nearly ended the video after the credits started rolling and I'm glad I didn't.
P.S. Darren do you have a review of The Creator? I watched the movie and felt like I missed out on... what it meant. I feel like your insights might help.
I recorded one, but I think it got misplaced in the great… Wind-ing.
But I wrote about my complicated feelings about it: www.escapistmagazine.com/the-creator-is-a-science-fiction-allegory-about-vietnam-war-films/
Another movie I’m glad exists, even if I don’t love it.
The best description of Zack Snyder's body of work, imo, is that: That Dawn of the Dead reboot was awesome, but all of those DC movies were shit. Oh and everything else is fine or good
"Here's that thing you like from that thing you like, so _this_ is now a thing you like."
Oh, sorry, you weren't talking about _Rebel Moon_ there?
I mean “here’s that thing like that thing you like, paired with some other things from that thing you like, filtered through the lens of a filmmaker with a distinct perspective” is probably more how I would describe “Rebel Moon.”
(Also how I would describe the original “Star Wars” or “Indiana Jones” or “The Rock” or “Enemy of the State” or whathaveyou. Not as a qualitative comparison, but in terms of character.)
7:00 I definitely recognized the quote (before the "I understood that reference" clip), and while the original context lamenting the excessive reliance on sequels and remakes is obvious, I can't seem to remember the specific source. Can someone refresh my memory? Unfortunately, Google isn't helping.
Nolan wrecked the DCEU from the start. He didn't want Batman to be a part of any superhero universe.
I don't particularly like Synder, but he does have a style.
Wonder if a video on Godzilla Minus One as an "anti-blockbuster" could work?
I would be a bit wary of returning to the “Godzilla” well too soon.
Indeed, it would have to be a killer pitch to bring us back to Japanese cinema soon. (Not saying it’s impossible. In fact, I may be working on one.)
It's interesting that you put all the other DCEU movies up while talking about directors not necessarily getting the same freedom of expression that Zack Snyder does. While they were all directed by other directors, movies like Wonder Woman and Aquaman were definitely still influenced by at least the aesthetic that was previously established. Zack Snyder for sure, but you make a good point that the early DCEU movies were riding off the success of Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy and didn't want to stray too far from that.
That said, sorry to cram too many different thoughts into one comment, but it'll be interesting to see what James Gunn does as someone in charge of the franchise, and he's really gone on a journey of his own (maybe worth a video one day) from his early Troma work to where he is now.
I’m optimistic about Gunn.
I think he’s one of the best (maybe the best) director working in the genre today.
(And, to be honest, video was long enough. But I could have gone into, say, “Joker” outgrossing “Rise of Skywalker”, winning Best Actor and being nominated for Best Picture. But I think (hope?) the point came across.)
It's good that you exist, too.
Thank you!
Damn fine essay.
The central problem with Snyder is he personifies a *different* issue with Hollywood. That of someone being handed projects they're ill-suited for and dislike the source material of.
Snyder is an astounding visual director. And you could probably add some more adjectives and still not be doing justice to his skill in that regard.
But he's not really good at *anything* else. Like a less impressive, or at least less *entertaining* Michael Bay.
Honestly it’s shocking more films don’t rip off Star Wars when it should be rather easy.
While I personally dislike the way large chunks of Snyder films look (his overuse of slo-mo, the vaseline-lens which makes everything look surreal), I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to argue he is a 'bad' director. He's not for my taste, but that's me. Additionally, I'm not some Snyder hater. While I don't think we'd be best friends due to reasons I'll get into, I agree with what Darren said; he and his family have gone through enormous pain, and in spite of that he seems to be an amicable and well-liked man who actually has a passion for filmmaking.
I will say, however, that I find his personal politics/Ayn Randian world view leaks over far too much for my liking. Whether it's his outlook, understanding, or inability to see things beyond a surface level, it leads him to willfully misrepresent characters (Superman) to a films detriment, purely to either inform the audience of his world view, or more likely, to narrow his understanding of said character(s) to fit into how he sees the world, i.e. one strong man/leader good, government bad etc. For that reason, his scripts appear very shallow, leading me to bounce off them as I never buy into his protagonists motivations or outlooks.
I'm sure there are directors who you could argue do this with other outlooks too, but the Randian one really sticks out to me. Hell, in this video he's even wearing one of those basic-ass bro tshirts which says "If I go in follow me, if I retreat kill me, if I die avenge me". All this to say that, I guess to me, his films feel lacking. And as you rightly said, he is given far more opportunity than other directors to create his visions. To me, that's a real shame, because it appears his philosophy and ideas haven't developed since he was about 17.
This was a long comment and I'm not entirely sure why I made it. Perhaps because the Marvel vs. DC/Snyder internet "discourse" always felt like it was missing this point, or perhaps because I am simply trying to look like I'm working, while in actuality I've been watching UA-cam all day. Either way, thanks for the interesting video Darren, and the folks at Second Wind. Looking forward to more of these.
Snyde-bar, I love you Darren
That is far from the worst crime against humour that I perpetrate in this video. :)
@Darren_Mooney those crimes are the real reason I'm here, it's a plus there's a film discussion thrown in there too.
@@stpirate89 I like that. “Bad jokes… with some movie opinions.”
I hadn't really considered this take on it, and I think I'm more likely to give it a try after hearing it.
But... I think in the best examples of "rip-off, don't remake" the original has had some time to breathe, and fans some time to get hungry, before the rip-off. Whereas Rebel Moon feels like a Star Wars rip-off when people are already in Star Wars fatigue. If Rebel Moon comes out in 2014, before Force Awakens, the sequel trilogy, the Mandalorian and all the other callback movies and shows they've crammed into the last *checks notes* 8 years(!), I think people look at it as scratching a well earned itch.
Same with the DC movies finally getting their act together, just as people are getting superhero fatigue, and good shows like The Boys, Umbrella Academy and Invincible, getting some acclaim and following, but nothing like what it would have been 10 years ago. And if you're a subpar Star Wars or Marvel ripoff in 2023, you may as well not even release because nobody cares (looking at you Jupiter's Legacy - who took me 3 attempts to Google just to remember your title). And that's the category I had put Rebel Moon in, from what I'd heard, subpar rip-off of something I'm already sick of. Like a Lidl brand diet coke after you've just been force fed 8 litres of the real stuff.
Thank you very much, this was quiet insightful.
Cheers. Glad you enjoyed!
Doing my Man-gold dirty downplaying Ford v Ferrari like that. One of my favorite movies of the past decade, absolutely incredible film.
I don’t think I’m dismissive of Mangold. Love that guy, so much. We just literally only had so much time.
@@Darren_Mooney oh yeah, I just have to take every opportunity to shout its praises as I rarely hear people talk about it. Thanks for the video!
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Okay, I'll agree that RM is a very Zach Snyder movie, and that is a good thing.
I think a canon glass canon (an actual not quite literal glass canon) is the natural next step...