The truly cash-only society
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Rowan Ellis, Vanessa Hill and Grady Hillhouse discuss a question about a place where only cash is good.
LATERAL is a weekly podcast about interesting questions and even more interesting answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit www.lateralcas...
GUESTS:
Rowan Ellis: @HeyRowanEllis, / heyrowanellis
Vanessa Hill: @braincraft, / nessyhill
Grady Hillhouse: @PracticalEngineeringChannel, / hillhousegrady
HOST: Tom Scott.
QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe.
RECORDED AT & EDITED BY: The Podcast Studios, Dublin.
EDITOR: Julie Hassett.
GRAPHICS SYSTEM & DESIGN: Chris Hanel at Support Class.
GRAPHICS ASSISTANCE: Dillon Pentz.
MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com).
ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Josh Halbur, Ben Justice, Lewis Tough, Arun Uttamchandani, Eglė Vaškevičiūtė.
FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd.
EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
© Pad 26 Limited (www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2022.
I was under the impression that the cash-only on-site-only policy was because they fully expected that any card reader equipment, the card charge infrastructure and any eCommerce site they would use would be hacked in no time.
that also explains the no preorder thing.
That makes so much sense....
Exactly, I think that's also a far more reasonable explanation for why the event organization chose that option; people not wanting a paper trail of having attended could be accommodated by simply having on-site cash payment as an option
I heard that in their world, hacking anything connected to the conference is a sought-after achievement, because (I guess) a "reputation" is everything for a hacker wanting to become a highly-paid security consultant.
@@raffriff42to be fair "reputation" is everything for a lot of jobs
I really wanted it to be the yearly Amish Community Convention that happens in Las Vegas each year.
They would be kings of digital security!
*grabs book*
[hacker voice] I’m in.
😂😂😂😂
As someone who has been to said convention, yes, you keep all electronics turned off except a burner phone.
What I always find incredibly ironic about DEFCON and the measures that they go to to avoid paper trails linking them to their attendance: Vegas casinos helped pioneer facial recognition technology for advertising and security purposes. As soon as you're within 50 feet of any Vegas property they know who you are, and have a profile of your drink preferences, gambling preferences, history with the property, and any reports of misconduct at any other properties. So as soon as any of these folks show up - the people who "want to know" that they are there know immediately.
forget ocean's 11, this is the heist i need to see: vegas defconers vs vegas casinos
I immediately knew the answer since I attended DEFCON 24 in 2016. It has always been cash only (and will likely always been cash only). It's not just computer hacking, there is a lot of discussion of social engineering, where you break into a computer network by tricking people. A prime example of this is posing as a photocopier repair person, then hooking into the network once you are in the office.
There is also a "lock picking village" where they teach attendees how to pick locks, and there are a bunch of vendors selling lock picking equipment (cash only, of course). There are a lot of hacking gadgetry and miscellaneous other wares for sale as well. It's quite an interesting event, some of the talks are pretty eye opening about just how insecure a lot of systems really are.
The Wi-Fi is definitely the most hostile network in the world, I brought a burner I bought just for the event, did not connect to the wi-fi at all, and used an encrypted messaging app to communicate with my family to keep them up-to-date. The conference strongly discourages anyone from trying to pretend to be a cell tower, as there are a lot of law enforcement there and they are very much not at all tolerant of that, and will crack down pretty quickly if they detect it.
The key words in your last sentence is "if they detect it".
@@57thorns people at these conventions often are decently tech savy. people hosting stuff like that even more.
@@leonhardable Byt "they" in this case was law enforcement.
I only know of DEFCON because that's the place where they test voting machines. Thank you Tom for that piece of knowledge..
They took 10 minutes to hack them all... then got bored because it was so easy...
I know of DEFCON because a friend of mine has given talks there for three or four years.
@@davidioanhedges One of the most important part of security that (most of) the defcon hacks ignores is air gapped networks and physical security. In fairness, these things are also a topic of defcon, but at that point we're talking about vulnerabilities that affect paper ballots as well.
@@TravisTerrell Air gapping is so effective that it's rarely discussed
Physical security is discussed, as there are still ways round it, often involving people ...
Also, the talk on elevator security and I think the Lockpicking Lawyer.
I love the format of this. It feels almost like you're playing a co-op board game together. Each question invites a conversation that meanders until an understanding is come to; it's so fun!
Reminds me of my favorite Tom Scott game show, "Citation Needed"
Immediately i thought DefCon and thought "why just one year?"
1:23 Not created but one of the very first covid super spreader events in the US was not only a convention, but the Biogen medical conference held in Boston. It became responsible for 20,000 cases. Meanwhile, the PAX East gaming convention happening in Boston at the exact same time managed to have one known case linked to it, a crew worker for Nintendo's booth.
It is all about timing and luck.
@@57thorns Absolutely. The irony of a bunch of medical professionals becoming the single largest source of new cases when the stereotypes of unwashed nerds somehow left virtually unscathed is just hilarious irony to me. There did seem to be a lot of overlap in the hotels between both shows that seemed to be another bit of luck as well.
Well that makes sense, medical professionals are more likely to be around sick people and gamers are more likely to isolate themselves in the basement
Wow !
@@WeatherInOrlando exactly my thinking, the furry masks probably function very similar to plague doctor masks
Early video prediction: Either DEFCON or Black Hat. Got to be some sort of security conference.
Yep. DEFCON. Knew it had to be one of them. I've seen enough talks from them in video form to know that their audience is not the sort you'd trust with any kind of electronic payment system.
Okay, wasn't expecting the no-paper-trail angle, though it does make a lot of sense.
So wonderful to see both Tom Scott and Grady in one screen.
Would just say DEFCON isn't just hacking it's also Social engineering and various "access" gaining ventures.
Yep. Knew that as soon as the question was asked.
Aren't the title and thumbnail... the absolute opposite of the question at hand? It's a convention whose entry fee was paid in cash.
It's... been a long year. Thank you, now corrected.
Lol now I really want to see what the original version was 🤔
@@lateralcast No no, thank YOU.
@@dancoroian1 "cashless", and the checkmark was on the credit card instead
Unfortunately only went to DEFCON in 2020 so it wasn't quite as big of a turnout due to Covid and part of the convention being onling (and no Satellite talks Sadge), but still a great convention. Great way to know the answer to the question too lol.
A cash-only convention for Amish people held in Las Vegas sounds like the plot of an brilliant comedy film.
the excitement i had when i saw Grady on lateral, remarkable 😀
dang't, I just watched a video a couple days ago about the Lena image and its role in image compression history, and it used the pallet of the image for all its graphics throughout it... and that pallet is literally the exact same as the one for Lateral's logo and graphics... which I'm sure is a coincidence, but I can't unsee it now and it's way funnier than it should be?!
Was the video you watched the one by BobbyBroccoli?
Amazing captioning work.
Initial thoughts: DEFCON (referring to the USA's military alert levels of the same name). A hacker conference held yearly(?) in Las Vegas (Nevada, USA), about subverting systems, especially electronic and computerized ones; finding flaws, exploiting them, exposing risks, demonstrating skills and knowledge, etc. . So having electronic payment (debit/credit cards, e-transfers, wires, etc.) would be a recipe for exploitation and disaster.
Yup, had prior info about it so it was a freebie.
I was initially thinking it was the Bitcoin conference that famously had to stop accepting Bitcoin.
I have been watching DEFCON videos for years and had no idea you had to pay in cash to get in.
ngl the moment he said Las Vegas and cash only, my guess was that it would be a special gambling event. then again, I suppose a pay-in of 300$ into a game that exclusive would be pretty small.
This one was way too easy. I figured it out right away and so did Rowan.
My sarcastic ass would have said cryptocurrency international
5:23 What does he mean "location unknown"? It's clearly still in Las Vegas somewhere, because "Whatever happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas." 😂
From what I understand, simple theft can be a very important part of hacking.
can i watch the podcast fully with video somewhere?
Frustratingly, I believe you can’t. There’s the full audio somewhere, but no video.
@@NStripleseven Where's the full audio?
@@aminelswefy1808 link in description
@@lforlight can’t find it
Edit: nvm
the speakers are ultimate chatterboxes and amazing comedians
I want to see Tom do a collab on pentesting and hacking and other such things with Deviant Ollam.
I think the reason you gave was not the primary reason. If they wanted a no-paper-trail option, they would have the option of paying in cash. As they don't want to be ripped off by their customers generating fake tickets, or paying with fake credit cards, they insist on cash for everyone.
"I hope no one at the conference... crashes and burns."
I'm probably one of the very few people that was like "there is now way that's not DEF CON" the moment he finished the question.
That would be a worthy sticker "one copy stolen at defcon".
+1 for the appearance of Rowan's cat.
1:11 instantly thought of a prolapse.
I would say that most hasidic (more correctly - Haredi, or ultra Orthodox) Jews do use credit cards. While many might not have smartphones or computers, they still have other payment methods.
So if you turn up and and the event is sold out, you're stuck in Las Vegas with $300. Enough for 1.2 minutes of fun.
I only know DEFCON from the movie WarGames with Matthew Broderick and Ally Sheedy.
Woah. Defcon 31 was last month, and MGM has been facing wave after wave of attacks.
I was so sure it was a ticket scalpers convention
What an excellent idea to prevent scalping! Tickets to a venue are essentially a "proxy currency" and the value can easily inflate especially last minute. Yes, cash is not bulletproof, but it would destroy ticketmaster, scalpers, and give more money to the actual event instead of endless unauthorized middlemen!
I wish do that in a city
Surely they talked about Germany?
They must have!
Laß-Weg-Arsch could be a place in Saxony.
Why are just clips being posted?
They want to drive interest to the lateral cast site and podcasts, to also be competitive in the podcast space. Releasing the full episodes on YT in video form is basically competing with their own podcasts, lowering listener count and undercutting their podcast ratings/discoverability.
Because THE ALGORITHM allegedly even though none of the clips has near the views of the one full episode
I bet the Amish at DEFCON are looked at with the utmost respect. No plane ticket, not even any payments for fuel on record, just a trail of grass eaten away by the oxen all the way from Pennsylvania to Vegas and back.
I believe they're allowed to be passengers.
*steals book*
I’m in.
I'd say that's also where you can find a lot of fake money, but we are already in Vegas so...
Iwould love to attend con-con the convention on conspiracy theories
5:13 Watch out there. Don't want to let the physical security lads attending hear that, now.
I expected it would be the Time Travelers convention.
Similar to Grady's suggestion about marijuana, i first guessed it was some kind of porn convention.
I could've imagined sth casino-related bc of cash and Las Vegas, but hacking conference does make sense.
At 2:46 I want to say money/coin collectors.
I knew the answer within the first 30 second lol. First time that has happened for me with this podcast
There is honour among the thief's.
how is the situation marijuana money in The US?
if I have a shop in a legal state, and I put the money in a bank, can judiciary of the
union take the money of my store?
does it depend where the bank is? or in which states the bank operates?
or it is just about where I am selling money?
I read in recent past banks in The US were all local banks. Are there banks still not "federalized" in The US?
Most major financial institutions in the US have significant oversight by the federal government, and as noted marijuana is still illegal in federal law even though several states have made it legal. Any transaction that crosses state borders falls under federal jurisdiction, including basically any interaction between a financial institution making a loan to any weed dispensary which would make it a federal crime. It may not be worthwhile for federal law enforcement to go after the dispensary because they're relatively small, but it would definitely be worthwhile to hound the bank/credit company giving out the loan if they make a slight misstep out of the ordinary, so the big banks/credit companies are reluctant at best to get involved with weed as a result. (This is also why banks are the one major private institution in the US who always close on federal holidays even though courts have ruled that in general the government cannot require private businesses to close on holidays.)
Even local banks that have only one location in a local community are subject to federal oversight (because bank failures tend to cascade -- you get the Great Depression when you don't step in fast enough). Weed dispensaries can still get basic financial services like checking, but it won't be to the extent of other industries when it comes to taking out loans.
I kind of like how they expect everyone's ability to hack stuff, even just for 💩s and giggles, so well there SuperVinlin
I really thought it'd be a convention of currency collectors
defcon is the only vegas convention i know of other than i think there's probably furry conventions there
Stealing is a life hack
In a cashless society, how could we do car boot sales? Just saying.
if you hack into someone's home security system outright theft can still count as hacking
Prepper convention?
Had expected the answar to be along the lines of a adult/erotic type convention. Also not a crowd who likes to be tracked, and cash is a usual thing. Plus not being able to book tickets prevents religious people from buying up the tickets to make it look like the event failed.
Cash is freedom. Use it as much as possible.
Cash is love, cash is life.
Never give in to funny money, especially of the digital kind that vanishes the moment the provider doesn't like you anymore or your power goes off.
My cousin hacked a candy bar from the convenience store once.
I gueses aomthing to do with area 51, bause that was also that month I believe.
they yassified him
I thought he said deaf-con at first lol
The hasidic community uses credit cards
Haven't fully watches I'm guessing black hat or defcon
Edit:wait I actually got it lol
😎
Stealing books is physical hacking
😄
When people try to act smart but aren't aware of Event 201 that occurred in 2019. Lmao
DEFCON does not accept Bitcoin??? Wow! Cash is also forensically trackable.
yeah, nobody who understands the technology uses cryptocurrency
They know how easily hackable cryptocurrencies are ... and avoid them
I would disagree with their public reasoning..it's because everyone is paying with stolen credit cards lol
You are very lucky that I was not one of the contestants on this segment because I would have been able to answer your question in about 3 seconds
DEFCON the world's largest hacker convention
And they only accept cash for fairly obvious reasons