You give GW far too much credit on this one. It’s not a capacity or lore issue, it’s a ‘they don’t want you to have models that are cross compatible across two games and spend less money’ issue.
But by the same logic isn’t every box of Old World they sell just a box they’re not selling in AoS or 40K? I see your point, but logistics are definitely an issue.
Vampire counts are even on the old world map they produced in small numbers so yeah they will be back 100%. But when they do come out as core, expect a slightly different army due to their "new location". Again another way to avoid cross pollination and bring out SDS models to avoid the cross over .it's a pure business decision at the moment and anyone whos worked in that kinda sector knows that..they want you to buy the new models and box sets of the core right now and SDS and games workshop have different spreadsheets to account for. They can't cross pollinate to mess up the shareholders figures. All this bull about lore is to fit that narrative.
Surely, it is about money, it is always about money, specially with GW. Lore reason is total garbage and models.. you can 3D scan models and print them in home now a days... bs
I feel like vampire counts could still be the 10th faction, most of their older models have been refreshed (bar some core ones like grave guard), sylvania is part of the empire, mousillon is a vampiric bretonnian city and it would be the second undead faction.
@@SomersetDrinker before TKs, there was the "Undead" faction that had elements of vampires, mummies and everything in between. So yeah, I totally can imagine a "vampire army" without a single vampire.
@kempo79 A "vampire army" kinda needs an option to take at least one vampire to be considered a "vampire army" other wise its not a vampire army, like, for instance, the tomb Kings. I never said you couldn't have an undead army without vampires. Imagine having a tomb Kings army without any tomb Kings, or a bretonnian army without any Knights. Its the specific flavour of unit options that gives an army its identity. You can still play a VC army without any vampires, but the vampires (counts) are the face of the faction.
Lots of those legacy armies had all range refresh recently, lizardmen and vampire count for exemple. So it’s not a question of lost molds or anything. But i do agree that we should first look to what we like and love. That’s why i’m going lizardmen.
Well, a lot of the moulds have had to be remastered, because they don’t have the original greens (Link below). So my thinking is they either haven’t got round to or can’t fix the legacy faction ones. 🤷🏻♂️ But, it’s all about fun, and Lizardmen are a great choice. 👍🏻 Link: www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/17/old-world-almanack-the-art-of-remastering-classic-miniatures/
@@frankrochefort8265 me too, I have a series of videos on my page trying to help people who are trying if it's of any use :-) (and shorts showing my painting off)
If they want to bring "new" factions to TOW, all they need to do is to release... THE NEW WORLD (literally) expansion - with Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Skaven (remnants of clan Pestilence) and Pirates of Sartosa (vampires) factions. In fact, they don't even have to keep the TOW date, since Lustria and Naggaroth are far enough to tell the independent story. Same goes with "Dark Lands" expansion - with Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs as protagonist factions, telling the story of Warhammer version of Mordor (Plain of Zharr). And daemons are universal and can be brought back anyday, since their whole range is intact.
Brilliant idea! I’d be happy for them to tell the stories of the Old World and New World separately - could actually make for some really cool campaigns 👍🏻
The much more important note is that in that article GW flatly stated that their primary goal was to remove Skaven and VC from the game entirely, and then they picked a time period that they thought they could use to get away with that. It wasn't the other way around, they went in with the overt goal of exterminating those armies.
I certainly don't think you're wrong - there was certainly some intention to skip over those factions. But, at the same time, I think it comes down to whether the company is able to service 16 factions in Old World when we're still waiting for books and models that were announced several months ago? No blame on them, but I think they have a big issue with supply logistics post-pandemic, and even nine factions may take them a while to roll out.
@@TabletopTom Definitely, but it speaks to intent. They wanted those armies gone as their primary goal, not that they picked a time period and decided on which armies would be suitable for that time period. I mean for crying out loud..."well, one vampire was dead at this time, so every vampire and necromancer poofed out of existence" is an actual thing they said.
I really hope Vampire Counts will get continued support. They are a popular faction and have new sculpts from Age of Sigmar (Zombies, Skeletons, Blood Knights and so on all have shiny new kits). GW doesn't have to invest anything since they already produce and sell all the VC models. They would just have to continue to update their rules.
I hear you. But, again, the popularity of Old World has completely surprised GW, and anyone in their position would see a huge opportunity in expanding the roster of factions in the ‘official’ lineup. 👍🏻
Surely GW has given space (rightly) to the factions that do not exist in AoS, so as to make them exclusive for Old World, also they will certainly have thought of doing a marketing test and seeing how people react, everything will depend on this in the future, for now it seems to be going well, a lot of people play and buy Old World and personally speaking, I prefer it to AoS, the old Fantasy charisma has no rivals, so I'm quite confident that maybe once all the main factions have been put on the market, we could see a new GW breakthrough and making all the factions official and also putting the legacy ones back on the market (also because all the common factions in legacy and AoS have been updated with new models suitable for AoS) so they could do like the Warriors of Chaos who put everything back on sale the old range for Old World 👍🏻☺️
Sorry, what is this "they've lost the moulds" rubbish? The models still exist. You can buy them. Do you think they just got rid of all the blueprints for making these moulds? It hasnt been 50+ years, it hasnt even been a decade... What a bizarre bit of reasoning...
www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/17/old-world-almanack-the-art-of-remastering-classic-miniatures/ They literally don’t have some of the original greens - i.e the original blueprints - and have to fix the cast masters by hand to preserve detail. 👍🏻
It's just a rumour, but I can't help but agree with some that their place in AoS feels the weakest of all the factions - we hear so little about them and they feel like they're there almost because they didn't have the Old World to be a part of (just my opinion, though).
@@TabletopTom True, but they were a part of the Season of Thondia, and the shaman thought about what would happen if Chaos corrupted an Incarnate and something with their God, Morghur, who was a character from the Old World.
Tbh I was drawn in by the Total War games and just seeing my favorite factions (Dark Elves and Ogre Kingdoms) not in the story makes me feel meh. If they wanted to sell models and take from how LotR sold for them, why didn't they act on Total War's success instead of rebooting with no familiar characters and only half the factions available. Because of this I got pigeon holed into AoS in a sea of 40k players.
Spending time and resources to "recreate" old molds make no sense whatsoever. Why would you do that instead of just creating new molds with updated sculps? You're spending resources anyways, might as well do it right. I just find most of this excuses rather silly. Stop simping for the company guys. A 20-30 y/o mini is not worth current prices.
There are a number of reasons but, remember - this is a passion project for some of the GW designers. It was never meant to be treated as a new main game, and GW never expected it to be a hit, they just wanted to sell stuff to players who said ‘we want Fantasy back’. So, while the main model designers were busy making amazing new sculpts for 40K and AoS - these guys have been working with what they have to give players what they kinda wanted - and it’s sold faster than almost any other release in recent years. 🤷🏻♂️
I used to love playing warhammer fantasy back in the day. I really want to be playing it again and cant wait for GW to get their fingers out of their ass' ass and send me my stuff already. They get my vote for worst company ever for dealing with pre-orders.
Their logistics are a mess right now - they’ve admitted the problem (kinda) but they’re tripping themselves up massively by not being to actually sell the things they make 😅
it looks like the Legacy factions have complete army lists, while the core factions are a shadow of their former lists. This is so they can sell you back the complete lists of the core factions over the course of time
Good vid..❤ Sadly After the female Knights that have no hardship and dont need to ve Knight errant mule against feudale government WHILE BEING A FEUDALE LORD .... And no Equaliity female Knights yes male gentlemen of the lady nononoooooo Way to go to defallue Lady knight de lionesse Im just glad as a asur player my army is fair in this regard ohhh wait....maiden guard but hey everything Else is fair So now i want a mage kit like the old ones with female mages elfs so i cab build Mikaela from total war for my Imrik
You give GW far too much credit on this one. It’s not a capacity or lore issue, it’s a ‘they don’t want you to have models that are cross compatible across two games and spend less money’ issue.
But by the same logic isn’t every box of Old World they sell just a box they’re not selling in AoS or 40K? I see your point, but logistics are definitely an issue.
Screwed that up with warriors of chaos. I suspect as the setting develops, they will come back. Vampire counts will 100% be back.
That explains beasts of chaos.
Vampire counts are even on the old world map they produced in small numbers so yeah they will be back 100%. But when they do come out as core, expect a slightly different army due to their "new location". Again another way to avoid cross pollination and bring out SDS models to avoid the cross over
.it's a pure business decision at the moment and anyone whos worked in that kinda sector knows that..they want you to buy the new models and box sets of the core right now and SDS and games workshop have different spreadsheets to account for. They can't cross pollinate to mess up the shareholders figures. All this bull about lore is to fit that narrative.
Surely, it is about money, it is always about money, specially with GW. Lore reason is total garbage and models.. you can 3D scan models and print them in home now a days... bs
I feel like vampire counts could still be the 10th faction, most of their older models have been refreshed (bar some core ones like grave guard), sylvania is part of the empire, mousillon is a vampiric bretonnian city and it would be the second undead faction.
Good point! Hopefully they still have the moulds for some of those units - they were awesome back in the day!
If anything - there are plenty of necromancers that dwell in the Old World. You don't need vampires to lead an undead army.
@kempo79 if you have a faction called "Vampire counts" that doesn't have any vampires, something has gone horribly wrong. 😀
@@SomersetDrinker before TKs, there was the "Undead" faction that had elements of vampires, mummies and everything in between. So yeah, I totally can imagine a "vampire army" without a single vampire.
@kempo79 A "vampire army" kinda needs an option to take at least one vampire to be considered a "vampire army" other wise its not a vampire army, like, for instance, the tomb Kings. I never said you couldn't have an undead army without vampires. Imagine having a tomb Kings army without any tomb Kings, or a bretonnian army without any Knights. Its the specific flavour of unit options that gives an army its identity.
You can still play a VC army without any vampires, but the vampires (counts) are the face of the faction.
Lots of those legacy armies had all range refresh recently, lizardmen and vampire count for exemple. So it’s not a question of lost molds or anything.
But i do agree that we should first look to what we like and love. That’s why i’m going lizardmen.
Well, a lot of the moulds have had to be remastered, because they don’t have the original greens (Link below). So my thinking is they either haven’t got round to or can’t fix the legacy faction ones. 🤷🏻♂️
But, it’s all about fun, and Lizardmen are a great choice. 👍🏻
Link: www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/17/old-world-almanack-the-art-of-remastering-classic-miniatures/
Do you have any idea how hard it is to get AoS models to rank up haha
@ i have a lizardmen army with new aos models so yeah i do.
@@frankrochefort8265 me too, I have a series of videos on my page trying to help people who are trying if it's of any use :-) (and shorts showing my painting off)
If they want to bring "new" factions to TOW, all they need to do is to release... THE NEW WORLD (literally) expansion - with Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Skaven (remnants of clan Pestilence) and Pirates of Sartosa (vampires) factions. In fact, they don't even have to keep the TOW date, since Lustria and Naggaroth are far enough to tell the independent story. Same goes with "Dark Lands" expansion - with Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs as protagonist factions, telling the story of Warhammer version of Mordor (Plain of Zharr). And daemons are universal and can be brought back anyday, since their whole range is intact.
Brilliant idea! I’d be happy for them to tell the stories of the Old World and New World separately - could actually make for some really cool campaigns 👍🏻
You said Skaven are getting a refresh- where is this from?
The much more important note is that in that article GW flatly stated that their primary goal was to remove Skaven and VC from the game entirely, and then they picked a time period that they thought they could use to get away with that. It wasn't the other way around, they went in with the overt goal of exterminating those armies.
I certainly don't think you're wrong - there was certainly some intention to skip over those factions. But, at the same time, I think it comes down to whether the company is able to service 16 factions in Old World when we're still waiting for books and models that were announced several months ago? No blame on them, but I think they have a big issue with supply logistics post-pandemic, and even nine factions may take them a while to roll out.
@@TabletopTom Definitely, but it speaks to intent. They wanted those armies gone as their primary goal, not that they picked a time period and decided on which armies would be suitable for that time period.
I mean for crying out loud..."well, one vampire was dead at this time, so every vampire and necromancer poofed out of existence" is an actual thing they said.
As a Tzeentch Deamon player I’m glad to head Deamons are going to be back!
I have loads of VC and Ogre Kingdoms pre end times. I feel like I’ve been double slapped.
I had 5 core armies, but I instanly bought lizardmen and dark elves. Just in case, lol.
Worst case, just keep them - VC are some of the best models in Fantasy and they’ll be worth a fortune soon 😁
I really hope Vampire Counts will get continued support. They are a popular faction and have new sculpts from Age of Sigmar (Zombies, Skeletons, Blood Knights and so on all have shiny new kits). GW doesn't have to invest anything since they already produce and sell all the VC models. They would just have to continue to update their rules.
I’m starstarting a vampire counts and Lizardmen armies idc if they’re a legacy faction can’t wait
100% agree! 👍🏻
I will buy and i will play dark elves , fantasy without all these hugely popular faction isnt a complete game
I hear you. But, again, the popularity of Old World has completely surprised GW, and anyone in their position would see a huge opportunity in expanding the roster of factions in the ‘official’ lineup. 👍🏻
It's not really if the story demands it or not. It's going to be determined by how much money it will make.
Surely GW has given space (rightly) to the factions that do not exist in AoS, so as to make them exclusive for Old World, also they will certainly have thought of doing a marketing test and seeing how people react, everything will depend on this in the future, for now it seems to be going well, a lot of people play and buy Old World and personally speaking, I prefer it to AoS, the old Fantasy charisma has no rivals, so I'm quite confident that maybe once all the main factions have been put on the market, we could see a new GW breakthrough and making all the factions official and also putting the legacy ones back on the market (also because all the common factions in legacy and AoS have been updated with new models suitable for AoS) so they could do like the Warriors of Chaos who put everything back on sale the old range for Old World 👍🏻☺️
Sorry, what is this "they've lost the moulds" rubbish? The models still exist. You can buy them. Do you think they just got rid of all the blueprints for making these moulds? It hasnt been 50+ years, it hasnt even been a decade... What a bizarre bit of reasoning...
www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/17/old-world-almanack-the-art-of-remastering-classic-miniatures/
They literally don’t have some of the original greens - i.e the original blueprints - and have to fix the cast masters by hand to preserve detail. 👍🏻
I'm actually going to start with the Lizardmen for the Old world.
If the Beasts of Chaos range ends it will cause GW to shoot on their foot since they Released an updated version of the Beast Lord
It's just a rumour, but I can't help but agree with some that their place in AoS feels the weakest of all the factions - we hear so little about them and they feel like they're there almost because they didn't have the Old World to be a part of (just my opinion, though).
@@TabletopTom True, but they were a part of the Season of Thondia, and the shaman thought about what would happen if Chaos corrupted an Incarnate and something with their God, Morghur, who was a character from the Old World.
Wanted to do a VC and a DE army, guess ill just play old fantasy.KoW, WAP
Tbh I was drawn in by the Total War games and just seeing my favorite factions (Dark Elves and Ogre Kingdoms) not in the story makes me feel meh. If they wanted to sell models and take from how LotR sold for them, why didn't they act on Total War's success instead of rebooting with no familiar characters and only half the factions available. Because of this I got pigeon holed into AoS in a sea of 40k players.
Too bad. I always wanted an excuse to start a Dark Elves or Ogre Kingdom army.
Oh well. I do like Wood Elves.
I mean, you still can play those armies - but Wood Elves are just as cool 👍🏻
Hell yes they are!
Spending time and resources to "recreate" old molds make no sense whatsoever. Why would you do that instead of just creating new molds with updated sculps? You're spending resources anyways, might as well do it right. I just find most of this excuses rather silly. Stop simping for the company guys. A 20-30 y/o mini is not worth current prices.
There are a number of reasons but, remember - this is a passion project for some of the GW designers. It was never meant to be treated as a new main game, and GW never expected it to be a hit, they just wanted to sell stuff to players who said ‘we want Fantasy back’.
So, while the main model designers were busy making amazing new sculpts for 40K and AoS - these guys have been working with what they have to give players what they kinda wanted - and it’s sold faster than almost any other release in recent years. 🤷🏻♂️
I used to love playing warhammer fantasy back in the day. I really want to be playing it again and cant wait for GW to get their fingers out of their ass' ass and send me my stuff already. They get my vote for worst company ever for dealing with pre-orders.
Their logistics are a mess right now - they’ve admitted the problem (kinda) but they’re tripping themselves up massively by not being to actually sell the things they make 😅
it looks like the Legacy factions have complete army lists, while the core factions are a shadow of their former lists. This is so they can sell you back the complete lists of the core factions over the course of time
That's not the case, legacy lists are so poorly written
I want a full Moot Army (halflings)
Good vid..❤
Sadly After the female Knights that have no hardship and dont need to ve Knight errant mule against feudale government WHILE BEING A FEUDALE LORD ....
And no Equaliity female Knights yes male gentlemen of the lady nononoooooo
Way to go to defallue Lady knight de lionesse
Im just glad as a asur player my army is fair in this regard ohhh wait....maiden guard but hey everything Else is fair
So now i want a mage kit like the old ones with female mages elfs so i cab build Mikaela from total war for my Imrik
Stop pearl clutching over female knights you absolute manchild.
Of course not, they're discontinued
There is no school like the old school , and thats Old world fantasy