WHY Two Headsails? [Cutter vs Slutter vs Solent] | Sailing Wisdom
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- Опубліковано 22 лис 2024
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What do Cutters, Slutters, and Solents have in common? Two headsails!
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Thanks a lot!! I was just searching for the name of the Solent Stay on google and got to a nice class about the mast we are just assembling!! I always love you explanation!!
Odd Life Crafting Glad it was helpful. It means a lot to me that you benefited from the video 😁
If you have any questions or need help with something rigging related, let me know!
The best way to get in contact with my is by email: riggingdr@gmail.com
@@RiggingDoctor 😊👌🏼⛵️
@@RiggingDoctor Thanks a lot!! I definitely will!!
Hello Odd Life, watching one of my favorite rigging channels and who do I see...my favorite boat rebuilding couple!
As an aerospace engineer trained in wings, This is a first class explanation of the wind forces on the sailboat. A sailboat is very similar to the several wing options on airplanes. The use of different wing configurations is very much like this discussion of how to use different sail plans. Cutter vs. Solent vs. hybrid. The how to use the different sail plans is the key to understanding why you would pick one over another.
This is probably the most informative video on whole UA-cam about the basics of standing rigging.
Thank you very much
Thank you, I am a new owner of a 37ft cutter and you explained it spot on. And I learned a lot from you. Thank you.
Great to hear!
I've been searching around the web for a beginner's explanation of sailing dynamics and rigging to satisfy my onset fascination of sailing, and all I've encountered are confusing biased justification of why a certain system is better because it is what they use in the Vendee Globe or American Cup.This is, by far, the best no BS, no hype explanation I've encountered on the net that actually makes sense on a cruising point of view.. Thank you so much.
Thank you very much
You are a fantastic teacher. I learned a lot about rigging and the forces on a boat that I never really thought about before. Thank you!
I don't know how many people I've listened to explain rigging, but now that I've heard your explanation I actually understand it! Thank you.
Nice job Herbie, the Solent rig also gives you the option of a simple ready to go tradewind downwind set up with both sails poles out , you have a great rig ,potentially reefable by rolling the head sails. There might be enough sail area to lower the chafe prone mainsail and still make decent time on a passage safely . Cheers Warren
As the owner of a cutter, I totally agree that 'gentling' your boat in heavy weather is the way to go. Less heal, less strain on the rigging and less strain on the crew. It's also makes the voyage enjoyable rather than a constant challenge.
Exceptional teacher, could not be explained any clearer. I now totally understand. Thank you so much.
I love this video. It was the first time I listened to Herbie on Sailing Vessel Wisdom at the Rigging Doctor UA-cam channel. I remember thinking quietly , " This kid is going to make a great sailor".
I have a cutter. Great vid, very insightful and helped me alot. Thanks!
looking forward to the Gaff rigged schooner model with dowels and twine
Haha! I might make it to Portugal before I finish that model
Your hand gestures indicating wind force... Makes so much sense. Thank you. Beautiful exploration
You are welcome :)
Great explanation of reefing. Many think you reef to avoid heeling too much. True, but it’s really important for rig longevity, to not over stress the mast, and for safety.
That was great information, and I must say I am very much enjoying the rigging talks.
I have owned sloops, a 44’ cutter and a 46’ ketch. Hey! They all work. And I liked them all. For a larger boat, really liked the ketch, especially short handed. Vessels under 40, yeah, a sloop is fine.
Excellent!! It explains perfectly why I love my 37” Cutter. Thanks, Herb!
I meant 37’....😬
I was going to say, do you love your model boat 37 inches long! But then you corrected it, lol
Thanks for a really good discussion about different kinds of rigging and some of the forces on the rigging.
Totally agree if things get too windy just reef. It's the sensible thing to do, and it's easier on the boat.
Great information! I’ve had a 80’ Hunter 37c for 20 years & have never heard it that clearly explained.
Thank you very much for the great explanation. I agree with you what concerns the healing of the boat and I also prefer reefing earlier than later, it's easier and less stress for the rigging and the rudder.
I really enjoy your videos, very interesting and informative content. Greetings from Germany and Fair Winds.
Best explanation on YT so far on the subject. Thanks. I've been looking it for awhile.
I am just learning about sailing. I have been baffled by all the terms used for sail configurations. Your explanation just answered about a hundred questions I had rolling around in my head. Thank you very much for your presentation!
Glad to help!!
very informative. A good example of boat balance.
We have ours cutter rigged. The most easy, best balance, lazyest setup we have is second reef on the main and the staysail up. The second reef on the main allows both running backstays to be tightened at the same time and the boom and the sail has clearance to pass both. Just awesome setup! The only problem is that we allmost never see enough wind for that setup! ;-)
Succinct, clear explanation of an extremely complex situation
Thank you
Thankyou for many great videos.
I had long agoo a small sloop (Staley 19) that I converted to a slutter, not by adding a inner fore stay but by adding a bowspreat and a outer fore stay. It was mostly to better light wind performance, and it worked realy well in light wind going against choppy sea, gave both better balance and better run against the waves. But why surprised me most was how good she balanced in medium winds going upwind when I added so much lateral force forward of the existing sailplane.
Now I start to wonder how she realy was balanced before.
I'm messing around with similar ideas (albeit on a dinghy, not a keelboat), and I'm also surprised how little difference to the helm balance extra foresails can make..
Best explanation I have ever heard. Thanks so much Very informative of basic sailing stresses
Damn! Rigging school in 20 min!! Information worth gold!! Thank you so mich!
that's great information Herb. I am considering adding a second forestay to create a simple downwind rig so now I know I'll have a Solent. That's kinda interesting too because the first time I sailed this boat was in The Solent (for your non uk subscribers - that's the bit of water between the Isle of Wight and mainland UK :-) )
Very informative video. Cutters looks so cool but clearly made for going in a strait line and not for tacking.
Very true. When we are racking a lot, we only fly the staysail to make our lives easier. Out in the ocean when you are on the same tack for a week, flying the jib is not a chore since you will never be tacking it through the slot.
Great Video ... I've been sailing a lot of years and this is the most succinct explanation I've found. Thanks!
On our little trailer-sailor, we have been trying headsails set flying. Not very close winded but not bad. We have a genoa up front hanked onto the stay, with a downhaul, and we are thinking of launching a small jib set flying behind the stay for strong winds. This sail position is also suitable for a light weather spinnaker of some description which we have been trying out.
Very cool! Flying jibs have a long history on sailboats for a reason.
Just to add another variation. Our Solent rig has the two headsail furlers, parallel, about two feet apart. In light winds we can tack the genoa between the two stays. We have runners as the attachment of the inner furler is about 7ft down from the top of the mast. Going to windward in heavy weather the runners give is an advantage with mast stiffness and reduced mast pumping. It's an option we like.we set it up like this out of preference. It works well
Sounds like the best of both worlds!
Thank you so much for these excellent explanations. I am just adding a mobile inner fore-stay to my Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 49 and I'll double check some things now. Just to make sure the new headsail is not pulling too much to the front, without back-stay support. Thanks again!
It's the same for flying airplanes. Sure when it's just you and maybe one other person you can do 45 60° Banks but if you've got passengers you definitely want to do shallow Banks and make sure you're doing your coordinated turns
Also I hope maybe in the sail section that you get to describing not just the forces on how wind goes around a sail but why we want the wind to be offset and therefore our sail is also offset thereby having the force push the boat in the direction you want the boat to go. Well and then there is angle of attack to prevent a stall or to induce a stall.
I find this series of discussions about rigging setups excellent. I would love to see this entire series redone with something behind the sailboat masts and rigging so that they are more visible. The color scheme of the background and the cord and dowels used for masts are similar enough that you can only clearly see them where the blue pillows are.
Very true, when we get back to Baltimore I will be redoing them with a black background.
Thank you sooo much for your excellent explanations and rigging lessons. I find you are the best instructor out there. You are so clear and concise the way you demonstrate everything that it's easy to understand. I am in the process of making a change from sloops to buying a cutter. Now that you have given me the basic understanding of a cutter I am excited to get out there and try this.
Thanks again
And this highlights a comparative advantage for my trimaran. The beam is wide enough for the swept sidestays to reduce the accute angle. That in turn leaves the wing mast free to rake fore and aft. When the jib is roller reefed, rake the mast back to move the CoE aft.
Then again, if my boat is heeling 15%, I have bigger problems. Reef early and reef often!
As it turns out all I had to do is watch this video instead of bugging you. Should have known the Rigging Docter would have a video on exactly what I was asking about. Figures Thanks a bunch my friend, love ya.
Great video. This stimulated a lot of ideas. Mast further aft, rotating wing mast, very high aspect main, most drive coming from foresails. I expect it's all been done
Good video. My favorite is to have a staysail boom so that instead of tacking the staysail sheets you simply tack the backstays. Short tacking in light wind, drop the jib and you can ignore the backstays, just leave them slack. Also, rig your backstays to the center line of the boat to eliminate off center forces at the mast.
Fascinating and totally comprehensible. I'm a newb and feel like I got most of that explanation.
With the twin spreader swept back rig of a lot of boats one can virtually set up a cutter rig to the top spreader with enough arft pressure from the swept back rig to do away with a runner , though i do have runners set up for heavier weather tied off to the rigging on a bungie, Cats with there wide base & swept back rig do away with runners completely .Nice post , like the bird
Very informative. I bought a 39' cutter rigged Cavalier several years ago and decided to take off the inner stay and running back stays for the time being, as I'm currently only doing local coastal cruising ( plus I'm also relatively new to sailing - so wanted to simplify my rigging). As I get ready to do some offshore sailing, I've debated whether or not to reinstall the cutter rig. After seeing this video, I'm most certainly going to set it back up as a cutter. Thank you for the clear and precise explanation.
Offshore, the staysail is the only sail that was up almost the entire ocean crossing.
@@RiggingDoctor Do you have a boom for your staysail? If so, any images/video of it in action? Thank you.
Very interesting, and informative. I agree with most of your healing philosophy, less strain on the rigging, sure. I have a Jason 35, cutter rigged. Thanks.
Great Video. Thanks! I have a 1960 Skorgenes (Norway) 41' Mahogany Sloop. It has 1 back stay, 2 running back stays (steel cable with block and tackle to the cockpit), check stays, cutter rig set up with sail track on the mast and fore deck and 2 forestays coming off a "Y" at the bow, both going to the mast head, one port & one starboard. I have NO furlers. I can run a solent rig (I know technically the Solent is aft of the forestay, not next to it). with either the Genoa or the Jib flying with no tacking problem as the No. 1 sail doesn't have to squeeze between the space that would be there if it were a normal Solent rig. Oh and I don't have a boom Vang, I have preventers, one port and one starboard. The Naval Architect that designed this boat for an Oslo businessman built it for North Sea and Baltic Sea navigation. She is now being refurbished while sailing the San Francisco Bay Area. Fair winds and following seas.........
Thanks for the in depth explanation on sails. :)
This is one of the best explanations of the basic concepts and comparisons of these sail types. Just found your channel and subbed up. Thanks!
Huge trend today towards having even 3 headsails flying them all at the same time. Even move the mast aft and narrowing the mainsail. All done with furlers during offshore racing and always furling/redeploy rather than tacking or gybing. In five years, the world is moving on.
Love the bucket of rocks analogy. Thanks for the clear, concise video!
👍 you are welcome :)
"Baby Stays" or "Baby Backstays": We (the boat and me) have Baby Backstays which some people have called running backstays and are so close to the shrouds you might think they are auxiliary shrouds. What do you think their proper name is? 23 foot cutter trailer sailer. The Baby Backstays are from the gunwale 22 inches aft of the mast to the spreaders, and each has it's own set of double blocks (2 pairs of 'pulleys'). Boom goes out about 75-80 degrees preventer before hitting baby stays, ok for me. Backstay adjustable double blocks, should I get a tension gauge $140? Mast post from keel to deck.
Does rigging tightness affect tacking? Downhauls on staysail and jib are terrific. In higher winds I downhaul the jib straight into a sailbag rigged on forestay. Downhauls (thin line, light load) led to cockpit. Halyards for staysail and jib also led to cockpit. Three reefs on main led to cockpit. Everything led to cockpit, easy to adjust every line, easy to singlehand (I thank the previous owner for the beautiful rigging refit).
Thanks for making the point about the mast being a lever arm to lift the keel. Now I see that a lot of heel is a big stress on the keel's pivot bolt and bolt hole on pivoting retractable keel, 600 lb on this trailer sailer. Knockdown is a concern with only 600 lb keel: boat sank before previous owner's total refit.
I set sail for good handling not max speed. ymmv. I'm not in a hurry. When I sail 'not-fast' I get to sail more hours; if I sailed max fast I would reach port too soon.
Thank you for your really clear explanations.
Budster Budman, April 2023
My West Solent is similar to the Solent design you mention, but the Solent stay doesn’t run to the top of the mast, it runs to the same point as a cutter goes to on the mast, 2/3rds up.
EXCELENTE EXPLICACION CAPITAN SALUDOS DESDE ARGENTINA Y BUENOS VIENTOS !!!!!!
Muchisimas gracias :)
That was a lot to take in. Explained a lot. Amazing video. My Santana was my first sailboat and it took me forever to understand the running back stays. Now that I have been at it longer I’m looking forward to not having them on my beneteau. I also enjoy a deep heel to shake up the kids and guests but after thinking about that pressure I may slow it down, lol.
Awesome explanations, thank you.
solid rod fore stay take it you have not heard of them great for inner stays
Bravo!! Best explanation and advice I have seen on the topic.
That was one of the best and simple explanations I've seen. Thanks.
Glad it was helpful :)
Thank you , I have learned so mini thing from you all , thank you , Andy
Glad to help!
I spent about 100 days on a three basted barque (two tops square-rigged) and I remember how much of a bitch the blocks on the sheets of our jib and flying jib were to get over forestaysail and jib respectively when tacking. Not much clearance, and lots of wiggling with the sheet line out on the bowsprit to get it over the stay..
This is a really helpful video. Thanks so much! Makes me think twice about heading offshore with a roller furler, especially an older furler. I think I’d rather set the capehorn and go forward to hank on the storm jib, even solo. You had me at downhaul and drifter :-) :-) :-)
In my experience, on a sloop, you go faster with a reefed main and jib in higher winds.
Thankyou for such informative videos. Really useful stuff.
best explanation i've listened too, thanks man
First time, somebody can explain the advantages and disadvantages of the different forship riggings..
Its amazing the amount of terms there are for different setups.
Apparently, Eskimos (Inuits) have 50 names to describe the different types of snow.
Good comments. I love cutters but you would also love a ketch for steady sails.
I was originally looking for a ketch but couldn’t find one that fit my requirements! By luck I stumbled on my boat and it checked all the boxes except the mizzen
a little bit of a cats cradle explaining with the toothpicks and yarn but it was actually pretty clear.
Thanks for the explanation. Maybe use colored yarn against a light background for better contrast.
I have a new setup and it’s white stays and a dark background.
I learned a thing or two, maybe ten things. Thanks buddy.
😉
I've heard you say many times that the boat was balanced and I wondered what you meant by that. In this video I would come to the conclusion at least 15 minutes into it that balanced is the height of the pressure on each sail and if the heights are the same for all the sails then it's balanced. My curiosity is there another dimension to this
We have three headsail stays. Two forward ones with roller furlers. The other is hank on. Not sure what it is called but the whole system gives lots of options.
It sounds like the best of all worlds!
This is by far one of the best 'teaching/explaining " videos I've seen. Thank You!
Thank you very much!
@@RiggingDoctor I just saw one of your videos last week and have been trying to get up to your 'time'. Wished I'd have seen the one's on Teceria when you were there. I was stationed there from, well along time ago. Some of the sites look the same. Others I think they have made it easier for people to find. Like the walk through the forest videoo.
Back in my day, you had to know a local to get back in there where you guys were. It was so nice to see. Especially Pria De Victoria! Love that little town. Thanks Again.
Terceira really was one of our favorite places that we have visited on this trip.
When we fly back to the states for Christmas, we are trying to organize the flights to have some time there so we can get a good visit in :)
@@RiggingDoctor There is a husband and wife that have their own business there on Teceria, they have really great deals from out of Boston w/hotel stay all included.
Another great one! “Too Fast to Fish” -sounds like a tee shirt to me! I’ve really liked your new format, it’s really fun for me and different, Thanks!
Thanks for the explanation on boat design and rigs . Now I am happy with the boat I am building.👍
What are you building? Can you send me pictures to my email (riggingdr@gmail.com)?
I love seeing other designs to get ideas for our own project.
Sailing style can be a maintenance issue. An aggressive sailing style increases wear and maintenance. A conservative sailing style reduces forces that add wear to critical vessel components. Balance seems to be a key ingredient to many things in life, not just the mast and sail plan.
I really like that viewpoint 😉
All sensible information, thank you.
Very good explanation but you should also include in this context the 3/4 or 7/8 rigged sloops which share some features with cutters (like backstays). They are quite common.
Bro, you can gybe the headsail on the outside. If you're good, you can tack outside too.
What about covering a sloop with a high aspect main and large genny? When you have this you need a baby stay and running backstays to stop the mast pumping. My boat is a Wauquiez Pretorian 35
good job on the explanation, fair winds !
Thanks for this. Great explanations. When are you guys going sailing again.
This summer!
A lot of sense. And even though I’m a sailor I learnt a bit too....
I would love to see this whole discussion done again, but in the context of multihulls! 90% fractional rigs seem fairly common on fat and heavy production cats, but I have no idea why. I have a trimaran (Neel47) with a cutter rig complete with check stays (set quite far aft of the mast, and very wide due to the width). It's really hard to find any information on the best way to operate the rig, or what is limits may be. Interestingly the staysail is removable and the halyard is two to one going to a 48 electric winch so you can really crank it on and create some bend (it would be more in a carbon mast, but ours is only aluminium) right through the center of the mast. You can do this with a full main with a really deep roach. There aren't any backstays to otherwise apply bend. It isn't until the AWS is over 30kts that e have the second reef in. At that point, the head of the main is just below the attachment of the staysail.
That's really being in tune with your pet 😂
Super excellent description and info!!! I was really hoping there was a video like this and you have done it for me!!! Cheers Mate, and happy sailing!!!
Hi Rigging Doctor😊….
I sail my Beneteau Oceanis 48 set up as a SLUTTER…. according to you!
The inner stay is also roller reefing system. Same as the forestay.
My question is:
How should I find the correct tension for the newly rigged inner stay?
Should it be the same as the forestay?
Should it be softer or harder as the forestay?
I have also an adjustable backstay.
How would you approach that?
Thanks for your coaching!
I would start off with both of them being about equal. The same rule would apply: tighten the backstay when upwind and loosen it when downwind.
Having the adjustable backstay, I like to set both headstays a little looser than I would if the backstay was fixed so that I have some flexibility in my adjustment (tighter to looser).
Thanks so much, I've learned so much from this video!
This is pretty new to me, but the solent setup on my ketch is removable. It is done with another halyard loop that comes out about 5 feet from the top of the mast and then reattaches just above where it comes out of the mast. This halyard has a block attached to it, and the sail used has an internal stay sewn into the luff. To deploy the sail, you attach the tack to the fitting on deck (a couple feet behind the head stay) and the head of the sail to the block on the halyard. Then you hoist the sail. There is no need to keep the solent in place while you have the genoa deployed, so it is not in the way of the genoa when tacking or jibing.
That sounds like the best of both worlds!
Nice!
What would be best additional stay for C&C40. Large headsail driven rig with smaller high aspect mainsail? Typical sloop with little provision for reducing foresail area.
Also if Solent stay added and existing backstay supports it, can you butterfly both the sails downwind? At what point must you increase the support factor of that backstay. C&C40 uses Navtec hydraulic adjustable backstay. Thanks!
Absolutely the best explanation Will definitely subscribe.
I really enjoyed your solent discussion video
Great post, thanks for all of the info.
You’re welcome
Love your videos very helpful. Only a suggestion if I may.
Is I would use bright diff colour strings for model as it is hard to see on screen so colour ones would stand out more
I’m going to be making these videos again with a black background 😉
@@RiggingDoctor that would be great. Keep up the good work. I really get a lot from your videos. Thanks.
I've been working on a little 18ft boat I bought last year. I don't believe the previous owner ever put her in the water, and I've been trying to figure out how the previous-but-one owner had her rigged. I have three similarly crispy sails, of which two are headsails; one is a smaller genoa with a boltrope to fit in a roller with UV edging along the foot and leech, and the other is a larger genoa with a zippered sleeve up the luff and no UV edging. I assume that the larger is intended as a light air sail to be flown from its own dedicated headstay with the smaller sail furled, or perhaps to be poled out on a run in a twin-headsail configuration. I haven't had her rigged yet, since I have some repairs yet to do before I can step the mast, but looking at the stem fittings for rigging forestays, even if two can be rigged simultaneously the gap between them would only just clear the furling gear.
Have you ever seen something like that? Two close forestays like a solent, but with roller furling only on one? And if so, how the hell would I tack the outer sail? It would seem daft to have the furler on the outer stay, since the inner one would get in the way even when its sail was stowed below; but if the furling gear lives on the inner stay, when I do choose to fly the big genny, there's no way it would go through that gap surely!
Perhaps he was using a temporary inner stay to fly the big genoa and clipping it off near the mast foot somewhere the rest of the time? I'm really scratching my head trying to figure this out!
I’ve seen a setup like that. The owner could only gybe and never tack because the lazy sheet was routed around the front of the stay.
To change tacks, he had to gybe and let the sail out far and then flap it around the front of the boat. The issue he had was if the lazy sheet was too loose it would fall in the water and drift under the boat.
It ended up being too much stress so he would only fly it on a specific tack and drop it if he needed to change tacks. This works in the ocean where you will spend a week on the same tack, but not so great for coastal cruising.
Very nicely done.
Excellent. Looking forward to it. Thanks Herbie. I'm actually in the dentist chair waiting for my new crown fir number 16 to mill. Have a great day
Cerec crowns are pretty awesome!
The long-keeled cutter is King !
After two Atlantic crossings and over 15,000nm on a long keeled cutter, I couldn’t agree with you more!
@@RiggingDoctor Try the USC Polaris 36 ! Never better.
That is a gorgeous boat! Love the bow sprit!!