Breaking Down The TikTok Ban
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- Опубліковано 24 кві 2024
- The Tiktok US ban is a fascinating, confusing, wild ride. I hope this video helps you understand what's going on here
SOURCES
techcrunch.com/2024/04/24/wil...
/ 1771331080198529149
Edited by Ph4se0n3 - Наука та технологія
When Shou is talking about business on TikTok he’s not referring to them making money from TikTok directly but using the platform for exposure. Specifically, small business. Someone into fashion will have their algorithm based around that then eventually stumble on someone who makes custom prints or knits.
The conversion rates on TikTok are the worst though.
US is so good at pointing out in others things they do themselves.
China stole the F35 blueprints and copied them, show me where US government copied a Chinese blueprint and then handed it to a private company lmao. This would just be absurd, in what fucking universe does the government ever just give stolen technology to private companies. Any logical person would see such a company as a military antagonist, not a private entity.
I am curious why people always think CCP owns all Chinese company and not thinking the same way on US? Do people really think US companies will reject the order from US government?
When US told all companies to stop working with Huawei, did any company not do so?
And even worse, US URGED the companies around the world to stop working with Huawei if the products are using any US technologies and have anybody seen any companies not following the order? So, in fact, not only US companies are controlled by US, but a lot of companies around the world are. And people criticize other countries can or might impact their own companies?
But the point is, all the data of TikTok are saved in US and the databases are owned and maintained by Oracle. And if anything went out of US, should not that be Oracle's fault? Nothing makes any sense here...
Because in US the company or even an employee can go to court. In china the court and CCP are the same thing. And if someone tries they will likely dissappear. If a foreigner tries they will become hostage.
@@bulthaosen1169 Well, good point. But first of all, no one will disappear or become hostage.
However, go to the court will likely take years or many years to have a final decision and not mention it could be a negative result. I don't see most companies or employees will choose that, and in fact, I did not hear any one go to court to reject the order against Huawei, even though some of them would lost decent amount of revenue. Because it doesn't worth it, so they just follow the order.
For people who fight back, the most recent case I heard of was John Barnett. He was even not against the government but a private company, a giant one though, Boeing. He was found dead in his own car after being absent in the court in Mar 2024.
I mean, it was a good design to try to make things balanced, but this doesn't translate to that it get the job done perfectly. It is better than nothing for sure, but not super useful when it against government, especially for the stuff government cares A LOT. Edward Joseph Snowden revealed PRISM, which indicates some giant companies are in this project. And why those companies don't refuse the request and stand out to reveal this and sue the government in court?
My point is when it comes to controlling or willing to control companies, US doesn't do any better or actually even worse. But I hope TikTok can be an exception, winning in the court.
In China, when a CEO disagrees with the government, you end up disappeared for a year like Jack Ma. In America when a CEO disagrees with the government, he ends up even richer and more powerful like Elon Musk. This is the difference between America and China. You are just deluding yourself if you think you can make a comparison here.
US companies were forced to stop working with Huawei by order of a national security act, it was not a "command", it was a function of the democratic system/law. The department of commerce added Huawei to an entity list, this is entirely different from the communist party of China FORCING companies to give up their data.
Your last point is just deliberately naive too. "All the data of TikTok are saved in US" this is irrelevant, all of the software is MADE in China. It would be very easy to simply make a backdoor that can be accessed from China through a pushed update. That's the reason it is being looked at as a cyberweapon. Recently a Chinese software developer was attempting to build a backdoor into a Linux zx Util that would have compromised more than half of the internet, why would you expect anything less from Tiktok? Then you have PLA Unit 61486 and PLA Unit 61398, will you even acknowledge that these happened? China is an enemy of the US, they're lucky we don't ban all of their tech imports.
Because they do own all Chinese companies. Every single Chinese megacorp must report to the CCP, take orders from CCP, and even receive foreign stolen information directly from CCP military branches like PLA Unit 61398.
You are probably a wuhao disinfo bot
Ha, I was not expecting this take, but I'm glad to hear it. My proto-opinion on the ban was heading in the direction of thinking it was dumb, unnecessary, tough-on-China performance. I'm glad to get a more complex take before my own view hardened.
You know you are actually a bit double standards right? DJI can also potentially send data to china, for example dron footage of a specific location. And for some industrial dji devices there is also lidar sensors. It sounds to me like your idea is that all Chinese companies should be controlled by American companies if they do business in America because of ccp.
He is biased. TikTok wasn’t the only app implemented the clipboard thing. ua-cam.com/video/pRSWdtoUAjo/v-deo.html
@@jiachen1078 yes, everything has two side, I also don't like tiktok, the addiction is a huge issue imo. But at the same time, there is no platform that gives the general public a voice like tiktok does.
DJI should be banned too. Any company that gives a backdoor to its government and uses their data as a cyberweapon should be banned in either country. Americans never complained when China banned Facebook, why are you being a crybaby because we ban TikTok? Double standard.
@@jiachen1078 Waa waaa waaa keep crying Xi.
@@jiachen1078 This is huge for the argument, I hope theo can address it in a comment or a follow up video, given that was a large portion of his argument
If an app reads your clipboard randomly like Tiktok did, the app should be removed from all app stores and the company should be prosecuted. Full stop, no discussion.
ua-cam.com/video/pRSWdtoUAjo/v-deo.html
Well...
Good luck with that, US companies invented that, not Chinese ones.
Does this apply to US based social media platforms who over-record other equally sensitive data?
When scary privacy-invading social media platform is from Silicon Valley: 😃😁
When scary privacy-invading social media platform is from China:😭😨😡
Because China loves your information duh
The government has all of this information regardless, the real issue at hand here is if the US govt wants to allow a large foreign government to also have that data. If you truly care about your data, do not give it away.
@@quantum_dongle But I don't want US government to have my data in the first place.
@@oserodal2702 that is not something you have control over...
It will be ironic to hear a Chinese company tell Americans to use VPNs to use Chinese websites.
12:29 Yeah it's scary cuz it's China's monster, but if it's the US doing the same, it's okay, ppl around the world have been fed the US Propaganda for years, just grow up, and you will learn to adapt, that ofc if you care about "Freedom" which is apparently the thing that should make your government superior to other Nations, right? -- ofc that's my chill perspective about the rant 🫶
I gave a current event presentation for my AP Gov class on the effects of a ban. I boiled it down to that its ineffective in blocking access because you can just install the PWA if they offer one or side load the app. The regulation on resolving DNS queries seems more likely to be unconstitutional than the ban itself. Regulating the collection of data is a form of commerce consistent with the commerce clause of the constitution and tariffs or trade bans Congress implements. The issue is that resolving DNS queries is like saying "a crime is being committed at this address" and then the person who hears that goes and joins in on the crime. Is the person who simply knew and gave an address committing a federal crime now? Very interesting seeing the collision of law and how the Internet actually functions lol
You underestimate how far the phrase "national security risk" can get you. Also, we should not pretend that the internet is some open, pure, inalienable right that we have. The internet was a DARPA project. The reason we are allowed to use it is because the national security risk is fairly low. The spyware in question in this video represents a much larger security concern.
DNS is regulated by ICANN and is not protected by the constitution. ICANN used to be under the control of the US government until 2016 when it became a more multinational effort. The US still has a lot of control over the internet though. Especially in America.
@@ryanslab302I mentioned this too in my presentation with the failed effort to block Russia from the Internet after the Ukraine-Russian war started, but if ICANN doesn't want to get involved with geopolitics then I doubt they will specifically block only US citizens from accessing specific websites or apps this law targets.
@@quantum_dongleI don't disagree that TikTok is a huge security concern, but that the federated design of the Internet makes these types of laws hard to be 100% effective. Because access to the Internet in the US isn't authoritarian or state owned it's hard to have a "great firewall" to block websites. I host my own DNS server and they can run on a raspberry pi, but am I committing a federal crime by indirectly providing the users in my home access to TikTok? Also there's no reason that devices could run a DNS server locally and resolve requests on their own. It would be inefficient but isn't illegal under this law.
@@joshuafhiggins you're right, the internet is federated which makes it hard to stop something completely. However, the government could just put pressure on the major telecoms, device manufacturers, and internet backbone operators to reject DNS queries to tiktok. It would prevent 99.9% of users from using it, which is the whole point. The risk at hand here is mass surveillance by a foreign government, and reducing that surveillance to a marginal amount would be a solution from a security standpoint.
Their official reason for banning is because of data sovereignty. Except tiktok US user data goes through Oracle cloud servers in the US.
The fact that the US government want an American entity or group to buy tiktok, and not outright ban it - shows that the US government wants complete dominance and ownership of social platforms. Currently, tiktok and Spotify are the only global non US platforms.
yup and the funny thing is that the partnership with Oracle to "Protect US Data" was done back when Trump threatened to ban Tiktok, a couple of years after that lovely Oracle got sued for collecting and selling users' data which is very ironic tbh, I don't get why ppl are buying in that the main reason of a unanimous vote is data sovereignty?
Spotify is owned and operated in Sweden, which is a western country, allied with the Americans...
As states are passing data rights, the people want political control of these companies too.
Nah, china just has a horrendus reputation. They allow the app but they will make sure that the app is more safe and doesnt spy on users anymore.
Honestly, you bring up some great points and I fully agree with you. I also think that a lot of people on the internet view this situation in a very black and white light, and do not see the nuances between a democratic country like the US and the very locked down CCP.
As someone who has worked in the drone industry for years now, I can say DJI does make amazing products, but they are sketchy as hell. They are better than everything else, but I won't touch them at all for how they run things.
So, basically, you're going off of "trust me bro".
I mean we both saw the clipboard thing
@@adissentingopinion848 All big tech corporations do similarly privacy-invasive things. So when they're only going after TikTok, it's not because they care about privacy.
@@adissentingopinion848 Is that any worse than US companies over-recording other stuff? Plus I highly doubt all that data was automatically going over the network..
I think what a lot of people fail to understand, either willingly or just due to not knowing, is how the CCP operates when it comes to businesses within their country. Every single business has state mandated unions, and thus every single business "has ties" to the Chinese government. It's how things work there and no one company has more or less "ties" to the CCP; there's always a chain back up to the government. I don't think that's necessarily a good reason to ban TikTok or force divestment. Rather, the app is toxic and breeds brain rot and misinformation in a way that's more dangerous than apps/web sites like Facebook or Twitter.
sounding a lil pro war there buddy
I didn’t have Theo blindly trusting the government without any proof on my bingo card, but here we are.
It's not blind faith, it's running off history and knowledge of geopolitics. Russia/USSR has had an extensive history of doing this kind of thing in the USA, though the red scare got wild and fired up all sorts of heinous ideologies and actions, it was based around a lot of legitimate concern. Chances are, the US knows it's a likelihood because we've been doing this for a century at a minimum. Iran and Israel had deleterious propaganda campaigns shed throughout social media just in the past month.
With foreign interference usually the goal is to get people on their side, but their greatest side effect is creating outrage so that people disengage and believe our government is some sort of unique, de facto evil... so we get people voting in some spraytanned, softhanded cityboy with needledick syndrome to cause massive destruction and mistrust in our institutions, maybe even a coup. :)
As Theo said, what makes having this here so important is that we have TONS more oversight because we have papertrails of our elections and tons of people and entities around to enforce it. Having that control alone is more than enough to want to keep it state side.
@@into-the-weeds USA has been doing worse things to USSR, especially post-WW2. The propaganda is just as bad in the US as in other countries, you just don't realize it. The "oversight" you speak of has been violated countless times just from the past few months alone. If there were oversight, the Israel-Palestine conflict would have concluded months ago. Maybe even Ukraine would have had its peace.
This has to be trolling. This HAS to be trolling.
Funny, it seems exactly what facebook and other American companies does in other countries in the world lol
I'm looking forward to the Zuckerberg isn't that bad video
I dislike Facebook with a passion but I'm open to new ideas 🤔
Yeah, I'm curious to hear the argument.
I don't like to make sweeping generalisations, especially about nations as huge and diverse as China, but since the vast majority of Chinese have learned from bitter and painful personal experience, through repeated cycles of repression since 1947, not to trust their own government, it would be (and has been) incredibly dumb for other nation states to trust them. I suspect this is a case of too little too late - if the governments of the West have mostly failed to learn the lessons from Meta/Cambrisge Analytica, you better believe the Chinese government have not - controlling huge populations through manipulation of disinformation is simply what they do best.
Using that logic, with the CA example, why are people in the west trusting US platforms as well?
@@TomNook. Good question. I don't ;) However, despite widespread abuses, there are at least consitutional and legal principles that are, at least in theory, supposed to protect joe citizen in the west, while people advocating for such rights in China just get locked up, or worse.
Would anyone believe that if Facebook thought of snooping on clipboard stuff they would reject such an idea because it's "going too far"?
facebook also snooped on the clipboard, just nost as aggressive.
Imagine if we educated young people on the true dangers that exist in cyberspace. We probably would not have to argue over if we are going to force a sale of Vine 2.0.
I always thought it was a copy of vine with extra features
There’s not many companies that can even buy tiktok if they wanted to
Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, but not sure if we want that
byte dance can't sell the core algorithm according to the chinese law
Imagine if Microsoft, Apple or Amazon acquire TikTok, is scary.
If they decide to not be acquired will be favorable for UA-cam Shorts and Instagram.
fellow tiktok'ers are now in crisis mode 😆
how does this bill affect Tencent ? Theo Pointed Out they only have 40% of Epicgames, but they completely own RiotGames (League, Valorant), Leyou (Warframe, Wolfenstein, Quake) and Funcom (Conan, Hellsinger, Dune Spice Wars) and a Majority in Miniclip (Bloons TD, Plague Inc), Supcercell (Clash of Clans, Brawl Starts) and Grinding Gears (Path of Exile)
I am left leaning but I do think that tik tok is dangerous as national security issue.
I watch all of your stuff and find myself either agreeing or at least understanding all of your arguments. However, this one feels oddly different. If the worry is about data harvesting (I’m with you on that one!) then we should regulate ALL apps. But your stance seems to be, “they (Congress) must know something we don’t know”. What is more likely, there’s some secret info that the general public can’t be trusted with, but “trust us, bro” OR that lobbyists were used super effectively and got a huge ROI by the consent they’ve just manufactured? The “Free Market” is all about using selfish incentives to optimize towards the “best” outcomes. In what way is TikTok not playing fairly compared to everyone else? If the only answer to that is, “something something secret Chinese plot”, that sucks.
"why don't we put money into fixing homelessness instead of wars" is a weird thing to dismiss wholesale, man. the US military budget is unquestionably absurd and disproportionate when opposed to subsidizing housing and healthcare. poor example and makes it hard for me to give a shit about your take.
You start by getting it wrong, Bytedance has no direct ties to the government, and neither does TikTok. The only indirect tie that was talked about in the media was that a subsidiary of Bytedance operating a socali media business in China had a government owning a "golden share" which also gave them an oversight seat on the board.
Of course most coverage saying this tries to be as vague as possible to make it sound like this is related to TikTok / Bytedance. It isn't, that subsidiary is Douyin.
The issue with the bill is that it starts with this kind of dishonesty while doing nothing to lie down objective ground rules that would actually protect users of social media platforms. They started by doing what is done in China: requiring that all data be stored domestically (that was the Oracle deal), which should have been the end of it.
If that wasn't enough, they could go 100% the China direction by requiring all social media companies to have a US based subsidiary and to have a government regulatory officer seating at the board of that company.
Also, claiming that "but X or Y is not accessible in China therefore it's the same thing" does not work for the above reasons. There are companies that do operate there, as they follow the same rules as every other tech companies (foreign or domestic), and companies that chose not to for economical or political reasons. But there are no bills singleing out specific companies, wither for banning them from doing business, or forcing them to divest.
like when these wars didnt even started homelessness was still a problem 😂😂
Clipboard monitoring has an actual benign purpose for many Chinese apps. You could copy a link to a page in the app (in TikTok's case, a video or a profile), and when you open the app, it can read the clipboard and open the page automatically.
I'm not sure what's the correct way to view this. I can see why people get scared by the potential privacy concern.
You could just click that link and auto open the app...
e.g. reddit links on my android phone do this...
Doesn't need to access the clipboard...
You can just use deep linking, which doesn't require access to clipboard or the user manually copying the link and opening the app.
@@MAC... Unfortunately, some apps don't get to auto-redirect (somehow). I'm not sure how redirecting to apps work.
Also, I negleted to mention that because many other platforms censor links, some apps will use some other sort of things instead of a link for sharing (eg, an alphanumeric string); if one shares this and another person copies this, the app can also auto-open. I know Taobao (Chinese shopping app) does this, not sure if TikTok China did that or not.
@@mshuman Some Chinese apps don't open links in default browser at all, instead force open it in-app and require manual open-in-browser, and also limit which apps this can redirect to. It might have made made more sense for user to copy a link than to deal with those restrictions from 3rd party apps.
Of course there are legitimate uses of this (1Password’s implementation comes to mind) but TikTok’s use was egregious (as long as the video he showed was totally legit, let’s assume it is for now). So I do agree that apple should have done something and I’m fairly happy with what they’ve done (it’s now a modal confirmation), I don’t agree that there’s evidence that this was for anything unusually nefarious (I just assume it’s your run-of-the-mill evil of ubiquitous data collection). If TikTok had been a little less aggressive in scanning the clipboard, we probably never would have noticed (IOW: I’m sure most if not all other social apps were doing this)
Why would you get in trouble? Fk people who don't agree with your opinions, I respect your right to have one and I might agree with 40% of what you say.
all rant is about
If it's from silicon valley everything is okay
if it's from anywhere else: BAN BAN BAN
If it's from US companies it's okay, if it's from an enemy of the US that has stolen our tech, harmed our economy, and opened secret police stations in our cities, then yes they should be banned. And they're lucky they don't get worse.
Great video. I learned more about the TikTok ban here than any other media source. Thank you!
You are fine Theo 🤣 I believe you have a decent amount of Chinese viewers who will agree with your opinion
I’ve never seen such moronic takes. I’m starting to doubt his takes on all things now, especially with how he still hasn’t made a video about the awful rug pull Planetscale did.
Didn’t he do a video on it? Maybe that was Prime
if you defend Facebook I sure won't take anything you say seriously because your judgment is clearly flawed
yeah lol, I actually laughed when he said "if tiktok wasn't as abusive to the point where Apple literally has to update their OS to stop them from spying...". Hello, didn't that literally happen with facebook and tank their whole ad business in the US?
Also not that companies in china aren't under the CCP's thumb, but Google literally gave the US govt a list of people who *watched a youtube video* because some of those people might be doing the crimezies. US is the literal epitome of 'rules for thee but not for me' in every aspect of politics.
Does Facebook function in China?
I've gotta say, dude your videos are complete dramatisation the fact of the matter is as loads of apps that have been doing the copying and pasting from the clipboard loads and loads of them were doing it and they haven't been banned and besides it's not the fault of the app developer to do that is the fault of the operating system allowing it in the first place. Apple was quite happily allowing this to happen with CIA and NSA apps that were ripping users data off but the moment the Chinese start doing it, everyone starts complaining. And to say that the only reason Apple introduced clipboard management was because of TikTok it's just a load of bollocks.
What's a good source about the copy/paste thing?
"It's not the fault of the malware developer for developing this trojan, it's the fault of the operating system for letting them develop it"
Random apps that have bad feature... vs app used regularly by 40% of USA that has bad feature...
Which one has a bigger impact?
Why did mainland China ban UA-cam and Google? And Instagram, WhatsApp, Facebook, Reddit, Twitch,…
I think they wanted some level of control over these apps perhaps we should also do the same in the US
I'd give a fuck if China didn't ban every American app from their land.
I'm sorry I don't give enough of a damn to defend TikTok on the basis of US "hypocrisy". We don't owe foreign nations anything
The video just scam us tried from 4 years to ban tiktok but when younger support gazza now we will ban tiktok 😂
Hey someone gets it
the 3000 they/thems of tiktokistan are about to descend upon the voting booths and vote for notbiden lmao.
So your argument is… TikTok is absolutely terrible when it comes to privacy and tracking, therefore it should be banned.
Just think about that for a second.
Remind me again why Alcohol is not banned?
i would ask the same question, why isn't car banned?
This is just a "what about this", there is not reason why should be exclusive
Tiktok should be banned so kids can have a proper childhood.
I kinda agree, but by that logic, all Social media & cell phones should be banned "so kids can have a proper childhood". Truly is a cesspool now, nothing like when we were kids.
Banning TikTok isn’t going to do anything for giving kids a proper childhood.
It‘s the parents responsibility to give a kid a proper childhood
Sure. Instagram doesn't exist so they're safe
@@Nickie102 it will not 100% but the stupid trends that killed people will end