Data sources on Elonworld: twitter.com/bennjordan/status/1744410056429388037 Intro track: "The Wave" by @Superlative The $TSLA dudes coping in the comments is so rewarding.
why did you switch from FSD to regular autopilot meant for highways at 5:50? im not even mad, but your desperation for engagement is worse than the $TSLA guys
I wonder if Silicon Valley will ever finally arrive at trains? I would be willing to let them claim they had the brilliant idea all on their own, if it gets us to where they stop reinventing worse trains.
Collectivism and/or anything that is not profit driven is deemed "communism" to a capitalist, and against their goals of profiting from everything. These are the same people who can't wait until they can sell us air. They don't WANT trains, because they can't profit as much from that.
Silicon Valley only works when people invest absurd capital into a pipe dream, because pipe dreams get investors frisky. And they’re not frisky about the product, they’re frisky about the fact that the rest of the financial institution will also get frisky. Money begets money. Trains are never going to do that. No one is getting 1000x return on a damn train line. That’s the domain of government, or old, established businesses. Slap an AI controlled solar / wind powered vitamin B IV drip cart on the back and maybe you have a product. But the train is not the product, there is no product without hype. Because hype is the product.
We’ve had autonomous trains since the 70s. Trains are the the crabification of transportation, doesn’t matter what you for short and medium distances trains are the ultimate form. For last mile transportation bikes, e-bikes, scooters, walking are the best. Car should be relegated to emergency services and delivery.
@Victor-kh5rh there is a role for cars for in-frequent and rural personal transportation. But most cities and suburbs should be built so most people don't need a car to get to work, school, and groceries.
FSD already exists. My Dad used to work on the farm and go to the pub after. He'd pass out drunk but always found his way home. The horse would just go back in the barn and finish its hay.
OMG. You. Are. A. GENIUS! First, when you buy a Tesla, you're given a horse. Maybe it goes in the trunk? Then, when you're getting ready for FHD (full horse driving. um. that was probably obvious), just hookup the horse. Or maybe Musk can put a horse's brain into the TSLA?
I live in a rural area (no sidewalks) so I always have to turn off my Lane assist, because if I steer to try and avoid pedestrians on the side of the road, the car will sense I'm getting too close to the centerline and actually attempt to steer me into the people I'm trying to avoid. It also likes to see shadows as lane lines and will freak out sometimes on a specific patch of road thinking i'm actively driving myself into the ditch
Interesting. My son has a Tesla and his concierge service will not get with 4 feet of a post in front of it. You are overreacting and the car would center itself. Your brain is so slow to respond you are grabbing it at the deal of yourself and not the response of the computer
This is exactly why I dont want a car any newer than '04, and why I love my little shitbox Cherokee. No lane assist, no radars, no cameras. In fact the most advanced tech that thing has, is the CD changer in the trunk. All the responsibility of driving is FULLY on me. So if I fuck up, its 100% on me. Which ends up making me a better driver, because I tend to be aware of my surroundings and drive much more carefully and defensively. (tho my experience as a truck driver probably also helps a bit)
I'm an engineer that works at a major engine manufacturer in north west Missouri with a name that starts with a 'K'. We use automation for stationary machines, and we have floor cleaners that are fully autonomous. The only reason these things function over time is because we have a dedicated maintenance budget and team full of people smarter than the middle of the IQ bell curve. Without this, we wouldn't make engines, as electrical components fail even in a clean and controlled environment. The average American neglects maintenance on their vehicle simply due to cost or ignorance. Any electrical sensor component necessary for a self driving car to function can and will fail, and the owner can and will neglect maintenance past the point of failure. The wear and tear a vehicle sees is far and above what our machines see inside a plant. A lot of people will be driving heavily depreciated cars that USED to be able to drive themselves that are cost prohibitive to repair, much like the constant-on check engine light that many cars have for some superfluous sensor that nonetheless deactivates cruise control when it's malfunctioning. Automation is no the solution to all our problems, and it shouldn't be our god.
Not just their own dedicated lanes. We could add rails to those lanes to provide guidance and power. We could add stopping places where unmanned vehicles could allow travelers to embark and disembark. We could even allow people without their own vehicle to buy tickets at those locations to hire a seat in a driverless vehicle that's going in the direction they require. Of course building such infrastructure takes time, so during the transition we could build vehicles with multiple seats, maybe as many as 50 or more, then it could become economically viable to add a human driver to ensure safety. I'm pretty sure something similar should already exist in some form.
@@GlitchXThat makes no sense. In many cities the ONLY way to travel WHENEVER and WHEREVER you want IS by public transport. I personally prefer to drive, but there's no way I could drive into London and find a place to park in rush hour. Where as the train is 15 mins.
@@Giuliana-w1f However, and it is a big, "however", you have to have a minimum population density for that to be true. In suburbia, where ever neighborhood is bunch of dead end streets and never straight or in locations where houses sit on large tracts of land, it simply isn't feasible to implement public transportation in any sense of that phrase as we understand it today.
Two issues with your "boids" tangent. (1) A fully separate, self-driving lane (that would need a physical barrier to be meaningful) adds a TON of cost just to cater to what is currently a tiny segment of the population. (2) There actually is a set of "roads" designed to carry almost-autonomous vehicles that communicate with each other through a central system and are designed for minimal human oversight with hardly any computer code at all. It is called TRAINS!
Exactly! The ONLY advantage of self driving cars over trains and buses is that you do NOT need tons of additional infrastructure to make them useful, especially in countries like America that are just way too big to walk or use a bike. I think it is the right idea for SOME areas where trains and buses are just not feasible; all we need are better AI systems to drive them. I don't see why they will "never" work like it says in the title.
I had a coworker who complained constantly that the patrol car we both drove would constantly beep at him all night while he was driving it round. But it never beeped for me except occasionally on one specific section of road. Turns out he was such a terrible driver he was constantly tripping the lane deviation warning.
The fact that lane assist reduces crashes is a genuinely horrifying statistic and not talked enough about. Licenses need to be a recurring thing if this is legit.
My dad's van has lane stay and it steers me into oncoming traffic, it also blares a loud alarm for collision avoidance when I go round corners, it also randomly slams on the brakes when I'm trying to park. It's way safer than the 80's ford I've been driving for 20 years that doesn't constantly try to give ma heart attack, drive into oncoming traffic or think every corner slightly sharper than an metropolian roundabout is an crash waiting to happen. I'm so grateful for all this progress, I can't wait for the car to automatically regulate my breathing and emotional state for me.
I hate it. The sensation of car turning when the steering wheel is straight bothers me. My personal vehicle is too old to have it, but the Kia I drive for work has it. And some coworker turned it on. There are times when I want to drift left or right, like making a right or left turn. Where I live if you don't do it, there's a risk some impatient driver behind you will try to squeeze in the gap and get ahead of you.
Also pretty unrealistic to expect humans to be able to distinguish a mannequin from a human while driving, but at least the human will recognize an obstacle as such.
@@MicroMyco I mean, we could certainly tell outside of the worst lighting conditions. But we of course wouldn't condition our avoidance on the conscious detection of the difference between a mannequin and a person. We reflexively swerve.
@@television1088 Right! It's plain stupid to trust anything Musk says. "Oh, he lied all the other times, but this time, this time it's the truth". Like a cheated spouse who chooses to keep the blindfold on
The whole it can tell it's not a child is nonesense. So if it saw a boulder in the road it would drive into it? If the mannequin was filled with concrete, it would drive into it? Drivers defending this deserve whatever fate awaits them if they can't understand that the danger is not just to the hypothetical child, but to them as well.
ok, people who make excuses that "a cardboard cutout isn't a real human" need to have their heads examined. If your car drives over a huge object in the middle of the road, THAT'S A FUCKING PROBLEM. It's not like the car can tell what the object is made of, or what is BEHIND the cardboard cutout. For all you know it's a brick wall, or something worse. What if there actually IS a real child behind the cardboard ?? The fact that the car doesn't stop at the sight of any object in front of it is already a failure of massive proportions.
You can’t see if the car is in ACTUALLY in self driving mode. Nor can you see if the person driving is pressing on the accelerator. Your brain is so easily manipulated, I have to question your IQ level. If you have the guts, I would like to invite you to take a ride with me sometime. So your brain has the opportunity to make an INFORMED decision.
@@B3BandDo humans run over objects on the road? Have you driven over objects on the road? If you haven’t, you must live in some utopian area where there are NEVER objects on the road.
@@bigdougscommentary5719 I'm in my 40s and have been driving since I was 16 and I have *never* run over a child-sized object in the road. WTF are you on about?
There are already vehicles that can take you places without you having to pay attention to the road or even learning to drive. These are buses and trains and taxis.
they're insanely cheap too before 2020 in my hometown [where buses are popular] you could drive like 300 times a day [this is not an exaguration] with an average salary and don't forget, you pay for getting into a bus, meaning that you can just sit in a bus that drives across the entire city and be fine. taxis are more expansive but it's not like they're much more expansive than cars [outside of italy and the us]. In my city i think, it costs about equivilent of 3h of work worth of money to move across half of my city [kind of expansive, but don't forget: if you own a car you already spent thousands of dollars just to aquire it, and then you repair it, and buy petrol, and when it's too old it doesnt feel as good as when you just bought it, taxi is always good though].
@@Dellvmnyam you forget about driver availability, driver salary, and driver shifts. Even in Barcelona, where we have a public transport system eons ahead from the average US city system and just years ahead from the average EU ones, people prefer the subway over the bus because the bus can be slow. But it is slow because traffic congestion may appear and buses come every 10-15 mins (on labor days, on holidays one must wait 30 mins for a bus, and in night hours buses are limited). The subway in Barcelona comes every 2-3 mins in average (on labor days, on holidays 5-7 mins, and they do not operate 24h a day). And you may think "Wow that is so cool!". Yeah sounds cool on paper. But because of the reasons explained, people prefer the subway over the bus (and the bus system is still heavily used). This makes the subway crowded af on rush hours or when an important event occurs in the city. Barcelona is a "small city" with a considerable density of people (I know in other cities is worse, more than worse...) You may think: "Ok then add more trains to your subway system" yeah. But that is still a partial solution. On the other hand, buses can get crowded too during rush hours and being slow in the city even though buses have their own lane for circulating. Autonomous buses could help an already good public transport system. I know that for an American, a decent public transport system may seem the definitive solution, but believe me, it is not the end of the problem. And I am talking just about the urban use case. Imagine trucks full of cargo going non stop in the future... The problem with Tesla is that it wants autonomy relying only on what the car perceives with the cameras. Even using Lidar, relying only on what one can only percieve is what we humans do already.
@@diidac17 yep, I didn’t think about drivers’ availability. And Tesla and other electric car makers are also wrong because they are trying to solve problems of cars with cars.
Used to work for Cruise (and another AI company in SF). Yes, the cars are "driverless", but they have remote workers that help them through weird situations. I don't really get how companies can claim level 4 self-driving when they do all their janky driving behaviors and also use humans.
Reminds me of that news story I saw around that Echo and Google Assistant have a lot of "operators" that are there for when the petition is not understood by the system... and it was most of the time. So this AI thing is just "let's hide workers under the tech" scam.
@@LeflairZone as long as they remove the awkwardness of interacting with another human being people will have no problem with it (not saying that's a good thing)
It was more a comment about how unprofitable it is as a business when it requires more "tech" workers than cab drivers to operate, nevermind the specialized hardware @@valdir7426
A child will die if hit by a car at 20 mph ... but if the kid is running away at 3 mph - when hit by the same car - the aggregate difference is that the kid will survive. ... " so if you are going to hit a kid - make sure they are running away - as it will cause LESS damage to the kid " ( Jimmy Carr - UK Comedian )
I think its more like it saw the dummy, then stopped, but it is now obscured. So eventually it goes because it no longer sees it. It will be interesting if the new version does better at that or if it is a training issue they can fix with more training videos.
Autopilot was not engaged. You can see it because the steering wheel is gray on the screen. It is blue when AP is active. This guy did that on purpose lol
As a person with low vision who can't drive, I've hoped self-driving cars might one day give me the same freedom of mobility as actually being able to drive. A better scenario would be to just make public transit robust enough that no one would need/want a car outside of very specialized scenarios. (Yeah, I know: lol.)
@@threepe0 I'm in this situation where I need a car for specific things (tour; transporting heavy stuff) but most of the time it's collecting dust on a parking space. will probably switch to renting when this one is on its last breath.
What would be super awesome is if there were public transit “trains” that consisted of independent cabins/cars that linked together for mutual distance travel but could also uncouple and take people the last leg of their journey to work/home since that would provide the privacy/space/convenience that people who drive their own cars crave or need.
I remember watching a commercial a few years ago... You could see a person reading a magazine in a moving vehicle with a voice over saying: "one day you will travel without having to look at the road, one day you will be able to go 200 mph in silence and comfort"... The the camera zoomed out to reveal the person was sitting in a high speed train with the voice over saying: "that day is today!"
Self driving car where you have to be in the driver's seat at all times ready to intervene at any given moment? Greatest thing since sliced bread if you still had to pry the pieces of bread apart with a knife.
It's obviously a step in the process... The people in the comments here are so short sighted it's amazing. And this video is aging like milk already, Tesla's FSD is learning at an exponential rate at the moment
Man, if only we had some sort of thing where there's like one person up at the front where the engine is. Maybe we could call them the "Engineer" , and then everyone else can just live, and sleep in the cars while they're moved around. Wait a minute..
I am SO glad it only took me a little amount of scrolling to find a 'just use trains bro' comment. Why the fuck are we trying to automate cars when automating trains is 100, if not 1000 times easier?! A train can't exactly 'switch lanes' at will or hell, do anything. All it needs to know is the speed of the section of track it is driving on, and the status of the next signal. These can all be easily fed to the train.
@@roadtrain_ Because A) passenger trains dont go where you need them, when you need them, unless you reschedule your whole life around them. And B) safety issues. One radio fails and you have a 100 million ton runaway on your hands.
@Nick-ue7iw A) this is because public transit is chronically underfunded. Giving them more money to fix their shit would solve this. B ) That's just not fucking true trains are equipped with SEVERAL systems to ensure a runaway can't happen including dead man's switches and ATC. Trains are safer than self driving cars will ever be.
4:19 "Make big bucks letting your Tesla work as a robotaxi!"...until it rolls back into your driveway one Saturday morning full of puke, piss, spilled beer, cigarette burns and Lord only knows what else!
And covered in blood from accidents the manufacturer will deny liability for, while insurance denies your claim because you weren't in the vehicle, & yet you're liable as the registered "owner" of the car you're denied open access to the logs & software modules of.
The worse issue than "detect a stop sign in the rain" is all the stuff that's intermittently on roads, much of which is not supposed to be there but also outside of human control. Not just pedestrians, but wildlife (esp. deer), downed trees or branches, downed *power lines*, other debris, road construction, etc. Cars and road signs are relatively easy to spot (which makes failure of a FSD system to do so an embarrassment), all that other stuff is gonna get much harder
I went to Philly for my cousin's wedding and rented a car that (surprise) had lane assist. On the drive from Philly to Atlantic City I encountered toll booths (where 2-3 lanes suddenly became 7) unpainted lanes, and very narrow roads. The lane assist fought me, almost yeeted me into another car, and was a general pain in the butt. I didn't notice it on wider, well-maintained roads because presumably the car had a better idea of where the lane actually was and wasn't having a panic attack. These systems clearly rely on very specific information and break down the nano-second that information isn't available.
weve had lane assist in various cars freak out on FRESHY repaved and painted freeways! we need viable alternatives to cars not more self driving accidents waiting to happen
Like you would think people do. Quite a few people do get confused and that type of situation so I have accidents in those areas. Now I'm not going to try and compare present AI to a person but AI is evolving much faster than your average person is.
@@wadap0 he wasnt in a waymo vehicle though, it should be obvious that those waymo cars are absolutely LOADED with cameras and sensors that normal consumer vehicles do not have, its no wonder their capabilities are not the same.
And now link a bunch of autonomous vehicles together to save on fuel... Oh and now that the paths they travel are more predictable, maybe build some overhead power lines there to allow for smaller batteries... And we might as well also just put them on metal rails with metal wheels to lower friction and prevent the wheels from wearing out...
I lived in Boston as a poor college student. It had a reasonable subway system, commuter trains, and buses that got me to where I needed to go. And I absolutely loved it when I finally got a car.
@@chrimony because you live in america. I lived in Metropolitan area in western europe when I was younger and was everywhere in 5 minutes basically. Now I live in "the suburbs" for you yankees and have to go by car and everything takes ages longer
You mean that one day I might be able to travel the entire length of the Australian continent from Adelaide to Darwin without driving myself and risking kangaroo or Wolf Creek fatality? What an age! What next? Private companies will finally work out how to land on the moon?
I finished my free month of FSD on my Tesla Model 3 and learned babysitting a computer is not my idea of fun. I enjoy driving cars and motorcycles. I hope completely autonomous vehicles are perfected in the future but there is a long way to go.
that's how I felt. I would love to try it again in 6 months and see if there is a noticeable leap, but for where I live it was no where near "take a nap" or "watch a movie" stage. I even to upgraded on my last couple days and I didn't notice a difference even though ppl were crowing about it on social media. fabulous car but FSD needs to exponentially start improving or its going to be a long long time.
I also enjoy driving over a mountain or just taking a tour. Maybe in a future where we are so surrounded by laws and sensors monitor everything we do, speed, traffic, road conditions, distance to the front car etc.
Lol sucker😂😂😂😂😂😂 when i see a tesla driver on the road the first thing i think is " im staying away from this git because they obviously got poor judgement buying a tesla"
I hope it dosent , you shouldn't get to pay your way out of responsibility, you shouldn't be able to pay your way out of dealing with traffic , we all have to deal with wasting time in traffic , just like death and taxes , it's a unified human condition Don't want to drive? Hire a taxi like the rest of us or get over it
My favourite part was the claim about how the car can tell the difference between a real child and fake one... You know, because I make a habit of running over trash cans and traffic cones in my car every day. Haha... This shit is truly scary. Cheers!
I don't care about cars. That father (and Tesla investor, video segment at 7:47 ) who forced his child to take part in an unauthorized experiment on humans ... should get a visit from CPS. Anyways, I wish you fun with your trash can hobby, ST!:) P.S.: Garbage trucks have special rights in daily road traffic by the law, such as driving against the direction of travel on one-way streets or, for example, briefly driving or stopping on the other side of the road, that the men or women can do their business effectively. So these situations are “rare” exceptions. Some of the average driver alone can't handle such situations as we see in practice, but Teslas and other "would-be smart" vehicles pose a mortal danger to garbage collectors. There is NO effective detection for blue or yellow warning lights. Just think about your fellow drivers, those sleepyheads that regularly overlook emergency services and don't make room for them. This failure is powered by a massive parallel computer (our brain) that our technology will never be able to reach. Alone because of that self driving vehicles mostly ignore emergency services (under a 100% working system, there is no choice!), it shouldn't even a question that those BETA TESTS have to be banned from our streets. They actually end(UA-cam censors the k-word with the following "ill") more people by secondary dangers than by direct impact. Have a good one! (cone), hehehe
it is funny but its also really important to know the difference when choices have to be made to minimize bad outcomes, for instance in an emergency should a car run over a child or hit a tree if its unable to stop in time but can still steer? knowing that the child is actually something else, something less important in its priority list is a lot more impactfull.
There is a very simple way to make self driving cars reliable quickly. Simply transfer the liability for the actions of a car in self-drive mode to the manufacturer, not the owner. Sure, manufacturers would rush to disable self-driving, but they would also rush to improve their self-driving algorithms because they clearly want to sell the feature.
@@12pentaborane Even without that precedent, I would fully believe companies would sooner spend their money on lobbying against making them liable, as opposed to quietly mumbling about it and putting that money toward improving the feature.
@@12pentaborane Aviation hardly even compares to on-road driving. For a human, flying is more difficult, but for an AI, flight is much closer to the closed systems that AIs are so good at. You don't have to fully stop and accelerate your aircraft every few minutes, you don't have to navigate around unpredictable objects, you don't have other aircraft going past you so close their wings could almost touch. Also, air traffic is extremely heavily regulated and therefore much "cleaner" to program around. On the other hand, any moron could walk into the middle of the road at any time, anywhere. Even in a legal context, such large differences could be sufficient to warrant a change in legal responsibility if someone is bold enough to claim that THIS vehicle CAN navigate the 1000x complexity increase of on-road driving. There's a reason why autopilots are only used for the simplest portions of the flight.
@@jabloko992 As a private pilot for 32 years, I can tell you that flying a private plane is BY FAR safer and easier than driving a car in traffic, and 100 times safer and easier than riding a motorcycle in traffic (I do both) I have NEVER used any kind of auto pilot. On the very first day of flight school, it was made clear that the primary responsibility of the pilot was to CONTROL THE AIRCRAFT.
This is why full self driving will become illegal before its implemented. Insurance companies will never voluntarily accept having huge corporations as opponents rather than Joe Shmoe. This is useless technology that solves nothing anyway
The object falls over, and is therefore no longer seen by the camera, which then proceeds to drive as if it's not there. It should absolutely turn off self-driving when that happens. Way back in the beginning of TACC, there were many cars that needed to have their gas pedal pressed to resume driving if they came to a complete stop for more than a couple seconds, because it couldn't reliably tell if someone had walked in front of you.
This was the point I wanted to make. The only time you wouldn't worry about an obstacle on the road if it was something like an empty plastic bag blowing across the road.
@@Caffin8tor My uncle, when young, used to put paper bags in the road with cinderblocks in them, just for people who figured they'd run over an empty paper bag. (He was a dick in many ways.)
Fun fact, I rented a subcompact car for a work-related trip and was given a Kia Carnival because it was the only vehicle on the lot and our contract stipulates certain class upgrades. It was the first vehicle I drove that had lane keeping that actually worked worth a damn, as some of the other ones I've driven (even late models) still did the ping pong. It was also, surprisingly, the only minivan I've ever gotten wheelspin in.
The idea with the boids does in the end hit the same limitations though. Traffic doesn't take place in a vacuum. One might have mechanical failure and stop abruptly, a child may run onto the street, or a cyclist. You cannot isolate whole traffic lanes to a point where they are completely undisturbed by any possible occurence. Do you want to build tunnels for them? The problem with self driving cars is that there is an almost infinite amount of variables to process.
It's a good point. And humans have been evolving the sensors and object recognition "software" to correctly deal with that infinite possible variety of objects, for millions of years. Computers have only been working on that problem for, what, almost two decades? It's not unreasonable to think it will take a lot longer till they get good at it.
Why is this hard for you? Something causes a car to stop, all the other cars stop until the obstruction is cleared... they can react much faster than a human driver and prevent injury.
Unless we could figure out how to leverage actual birds brains, where they do that kind of thing day in and day out, and other amazing things like flying through chain-link fences and so on. There’s a functionality there we just don’t know how to tap it maybe what we need to do is figure out how to directly tap a bird brain. Crazy talk I know, but I’m a free thinker.
Not as many variables as the human body using blood flow to nourish the body. If the unconscious systems can manage that I’m sure intelligent people can manage to lie for money
I drive my brother-in-law's FSD Tesla from time to time and i think it's safer but for the opposite reasons you'd expect. The fact that it can do ANYTHING at any time means I'm paying so much more attention than i am on a normal drive.
One video had a driver trying out the self-driving system and said that it was more mentally exhausting using it than driving normally because when driving normally you aren't worried about your arms suddenly deciding you should drive into a parked car or your foot deciding on its own to hit the brakes.
Hey Benn, I work in the industry and agree with pretty much everything you're saying. One thing though - while the section on boids is neat, I don't think you have stumbled upon the solution to our problems. Boids are a solution in the domain of Motion Planning (i.e. algorithms to get around in a known environment, like the circle in the animation). Motion Planning is only part of the tech stack of an autonomous vehicle and I would argue it is the easy part, or at least it's the part that has many working solutions (boids for example, but do a quick search and you will find 1000's of papers with great algorithms with proven robustness). The other big part of the stack is Perception or State Estimation (figuring out what my surroundings are and where I am positioned within them). This area has WAY more problems, and even if we put cars on closed, autonomous-only roads, the problems will exist - I assume pedestrians will still want to cross those roads so the car better be able to perceive the pedestrian properly.
I think his point here was that something like Boids works well because the system is simplified to play to the strengths of the algorithms, hence the suggestion of a self driving dedicated lane. If the future of driving is automation, then tailor the environment to assist in the automation, rather than expecting self driving algorithms to understand the roads in the ways a human does. I think the issue with this is that its impossible to prevent the real world from impinging upon the simplified environment of a self driving lane. Try as you might a deer or child might leap into one, injecting a bunch of chaos into the simplified system, requiring something more like a human brain to make decisions rather than a straightforward algorithm.
As a dude who has been in bands for 30+ years the part about driving 10-12 hours for a gig and ending up in a ditch hit home. We have a rule in our van 2 people stay awake at all times, DD is called at the dinner so everyone knows who is driving at night. I have to many friend who I have lost in van wrecks.
Having a self driving car that could drive all night is such a dream... as someone who toured before the internet was a big thing it will be as huge as Google Maps (if you toured before online Maps you know)
@@christophervan9634 i liked how it used to be a requirement for someone to know how to read a map to be able to tour. feel like the intelligence bar has been lowered for bands (if you deal with bands today, then you know).
That is one hell of an argument for revolutionizing the transportation of people the cheap and reliable way: public traffic. Hillbilly Hick may need a car to the nearest station, but from there ...
@@madshorn5826 I agree with you for people that travel with only their person/minimal luggage, but I don't feel like the comment by @christophervan9634 is a good argument for it. Bands are going to be taking a lot of stuff with them. No matter how reliable and robust the theoretical public transit system will be, taking that much gear around would be much easier and doable with a personal vehicle. With the system you envision, the band would probably have to load/unload their gear multiple times when changing public transit vehicles. There would likely be much less hassle driving up to the music venue directly and only offloading/loading gear there.
Small nitpick: Mercedes offers stage 3 limited to "major freeways in California and parts of Nevada". Unlike Tesla, they also agreed to be on the hook for any damages their cars cause while self-driving. Admittedly it's extremely limited, but not totally nonexistent in the US. They call it "DRIVE PILOT".
The technology they are using is a. a dead end b. theres no update path c. Its only working in optimal condition and needs a car that is driving in front of you… i mean how autonomous can it be if there literally must be a human driving in front
@@SeeNAVMthey don't need it in a technical sense, they need it because any self driving car that causes 1 accident will blow up in the media and everywhere while 90 year old half blind half braindeads are free to do whatever.
That guy who volunteered his child to stand in front of a charging car will regret it. When he's in an old folks home don't be surprised when his child volunteers him to be a participant in medical experiments.
Or more likely ignore and neglect them when they’re old. You put my life on the line to protect your car’s reputation. Why should I care more about your life ?
The "stages" of autonomy isn't a good way to measure what level a car is at. It should be something like accidents per million miles vs an average for human drivers. If the first number is at or below the second then the car has objectively reached full self driving.
I just took a highly automated vehicle operating in a dedicated right of way last night, didn't even touch the steering wheel or look out the window. In fact I spent some of the time taking a dump. It's called metrolink.
I think the reality of fully autonomous vehicles is that they either need to be on rails, or not at all. I would love to see a future where the same amount of vehicles we're driving today can be driven autonomously, however the sheer amount of infrastructure and cooperation involved to make this happen would be absurd. I would love for someone to counter this argument I have, but so far no one has.
@@flamegod7 TBH, most of the reason why these vehicles are going to take so many more decades is that they are having to integrate with human drivers and pedestrians. They could make the process a lot easier by doing things such as putting up walls along the roads, switching from lane markers to center of lane lines and changing the paint to encode information to help the cars move through the city. Then just have most of the cars load themselves onto trains for city to city travel. It's still a big challenge, but doing things like that would likely move the timetables up consistently as that would be a much simpler environment for the cars to need to navigate.
@@flamegod7 The subway in my city had been wired for unmanned operation for at least forty years. It's very simple... on paper. Accelerate, decelerate, brake at stop marker, open doors for twenty seconds, accelerate again. In real life, trains still need human operators to manage the human stampede trying to get inside in the said twenty seconds...
@@flamegod7all we need is a more intelligent and capable population. Let’s keep bringing in Mexican drug dealers they can give our engineers coke and we’ll get it done.
Public transit will be more important than self-driving cars in the foreseeable future, and it's old tried-and-true tech. Ideally, city centers would be car free, and outside the city you don't need fancy self-driving to solve non-existent traffic. Though, it wouldn't surprise me if we'll see some car pool coop type of thing to be the norm for self-driving vehicles once those reach level 4 or 5.
public transit that departs the station so frequently that you don't have to look at a schedule for most stops, electrified trains, pedestrianized streets, lot's of bike lanes, multi modal transportation infrastructure.. but america is totally car brained.
@@BennJordan I've grown up in Switzerland, where public transport is quite advanced. I pay about 240$ a month for unlimited travel on any bus,tram,train,boat,cable car, ... Here is the list of things I can do without a car, and without inconvenience: - commute to work. I get to sit in a train for 40 minutes with my computer and wifi. I decided to live in another smaller city because I like it there. - go hiking/climbing/skiing during weekends (because we have public transport to most of the Alps) - go out / to the restaurant / cinema / ... On the weekend I have night trains and night buses - make concerts all over the country. I play the violin and I sing, I have the advantage of not needing to carry a lot of gear - just go visit any of the nice places in the country Here are the list of things I can't do without a car without inconvenience: - visit my parents that live in a very rural place (I can, but no public transport on the weekend. There are about 50 people that live there. ) - some very specific hikes My point is, even though Switzerland is quite small, you don't need crazy high densities for public transport to work. Almost any place with more than 1000 people will have regular (every 30 minutes) all day service. Every city with more than 20'000 peoples will have night buses on the weekends for people going out. People in Switzerland own cars not because it is always the most convenient way of transport, but more because people have a lot of money and like to buy nice things. I know plenty of people who a car, but regularly use public transport because of the convenience of it. I still believe that autonomous driving is the future, but the US has a very car-centric mindset, and you tend to see the solution to transportation problem through this lens (your last section on boids illustrates this). Cars will always be needed in truly rural areas, but there are many last mile solutions other than cars.
"It can tell the difference between real and fake children"... I don't care if it can tell the difference. Don't hit it. Don't hit things on the road! Stop!
If the place that I live allows full self driving cars I will literally start a campaign to put things on the road that look like a "fake rock" but are in fact a car immobilising device. I will do this to save lives.
I've used FSD on about 15,000 miles of road trips and never had any real issue. I did one segment of 400 miles where in my ICE I would have arrived slightly frazzled. In my Tesla I arrived feeling pretty refreshed. That is why I love FSD. There is clearly a LOT more to do until it is true FSD but every day it creeps closer and closer. It most definitely will happen, that much is just obvious.
I think the problem is that, at the end of the day, if you're trying to make dedicated lanes just for "self driving" vehicles, you've essentially built a Personal Rapid Transit system, except less efficient (and PRT systems are oft criticized for their lack of efficiency). You're still going to have traffic because capacity limits are a thing, and unless you use some grade separation you're still going to deal with drivers in other vehicles making mistakes and pedestrians, et al.
Case in point: When have you not seen some jerk cross the double/triple yellow and swerve in and out of the carpool/commuter lanes. You can't stop assholes. God put them on Earth to keep things lively. If they make a self-driving-only lane, some pinhead doing 90mph will swerve into it and brake check the RoboCars and we'll see the most epic pile up in the history of mankind.
Yes, he spent a lot of time on his nonsense idea. It makes you wonder how much else was nonsense. But you know, triangles on a screen are exactly like cars! Autonomy solved!!!
I like the idea of separate lanes for autonomous vehicles. I can imagine cruising LA to PHX or LAS at 120+ mph because it's safe to do so, as all the cars are synced to travel at the same speed. That might work in the desert, but the big problem I see is real estate for these lanes in cities and suburbia. Good luck with that.
"Maybe they could have a lane specifically for the self driving cars so you could avoid human error." Sounding suspiciously like a train at that point.
Not to pick on you or anything, but when was the last time you pulled your train out of your driveway? Trains are a solution to an entirely different problem than the one being discussed.
@@SALEENS7GTR5 That's fine if you want to live in a city, surrounded by people all the time. Not everyone wants your lifestyle though. I want peace and quiet, therefore I need personal transport.
@@Tubeytimethats cool but don‘t bring your noisy and big personal metal box into the city. I don‘t appreciate it at all, about as much as you would appreciate a highway going through your backyard. Different modes of transportation for different sets of problems and large park+ride system so people can switch from one to the other.
I like this idea of segregated self-driving lanes. Can I suggest some improvements: Instead of rubber tyres on a tarmac surface, have a pair of steel guiding rods on the ground that control the direction the vehicles take, and have steel wheels with a guiding protrusion on the inside edge. This will reduce rolling resistance and ensure that the vehicle absolutely follows the correct lane route. Instead of batteries, have a power cable above head-height which the vehicles can pick up power from, with the steel guiding rods doing double-duty as the ground return path for electricity. Instead of lots of small indpendent vehicles, chain them together in a snake-like fashion into big long vehicles. Have pre-defined entry/exit points on the network where people can wait on a raised surface next to the running lane for the next vehicle to arrive.
Like seriously. The “future” he suggests at the end of his video is so insanely convoluted. It is crazy how car centric we’ve become that it’s hard to even imagine a different vehicle and system. I was one of them at one point tbh.
having to create steel guiding rods and not to mention power cables overhead? on literally every road in the united states? even all the governments of all the countries on earth dont have enough money to make that happen.
@@anti-tryhard He's being sarcastic and saying that we should just put more investment into public transport instead of some batshit crazy self driving car system
I still think that the best approach is to just invest in high quality public transports. It s cheaper, doesn t need new tech, it s way safer and it s electric without the need for batteries. Once you take 80% of the drivers out of the road, does that still have a need to drive will be way more safer without AI or anything of that sort. We can still have self autonomous driving cars (one day) but it s should be a low priority solution
At the end of the day a car lane has a max capacity of about 1500 and 2400 passenger cars/hour. Doesn't matter if they drive fast, slow, are bumper to bumper or far apart. This is the physical limit. For comparison, a bike lane has a limit of 10.000 passengers/hour. Bus lanes and tramways have higher capacities. So with all this self driving development you're spending tons of money and resources on the least efficient transport system. Moreover trams and buses are more easily to make self-driving since they stick to predictable routes. Even more easy if they have their dedicated lane.
@@RasakBlood Well I like trains and travelling on them. I don't even have a driver's license, even though I have the means and capabilities to do so. Why go through the effort of getting a license or expense of owning a car when a bike, bus and train do the same job?
@RasakBlood I think you mean Americans hate public transit. (Funny how it's considered freedom to have to drive yourself around). A lot of other countries appreciate their value.
@@RasakBlood Weird how this is never actually the case in the real world, whenever new public transport systems are built they always quickly fill up and become enormously popular.
@@Mrbfgray oh wow, 500 thousand in a country with a population of 330+ million, and those cars are plagued with customer complaints and investigations from various state AND federal DoTs and DPSs, how amazing
@@fakename287 Are you familiar with any of those "investigations"? Hint: they are trivial. Consumer Reports recently rated cost of owning cars and despite them being supported by The Ford Foundation, Tesla came out on top, about $4k over 10 yrs. Toyota was next, no surprise. There is no higher customer satisfaction, by a mile, than Tesla. So YEAH, Elon BAaaad, out of lockstep with the one true narrative. Propaganda works!
I was a truck driver for a year. The safety features could be terrifying and more dangerous. A truck I was driving slammed on the brakes going 65 mph with cars behind and next to me because it thought a crack was a reason to stop. I could have jacknifed into someone. Another time it died under an overpass because it thought there was a low bridge there it couldn't go under... so it was safer to be stopped in 55mph traffic because there was an imaginary low brige there. Tthe safety department would just blame the driver with the claim computers don't make errors humans do. Luckily I was never in an accident but the safety features sure tried to get me into one.
@@gwarlow I always drive far from the bumpers of other people but cars can stop on a dime trucks slamming on brakes still take a few football fields to stop.... the cars probably just had to slow down gently behind me but hitting the braked is very dangerous in a truck because the load can shift the trailer is dangerous especially if it were to swing into a lane next to me. People in cars are at a lot of danger around trucks, slamming on brakes is never a good thing.
Computers may not make errors humans do, but on the other hand, humans don't make errors computers do. My "driver assist" consistently mistakes pedestrians on the sidewalk for pedestrians in the street. I get a lovely flashing, startling red alert every time.
I have the same problem you had. Sometimes it'll track a car that's gotten off at an exit and lock the brakes on the interstate when there's nothing in front of me. So why is this a problem? Understand for a car, standing on the brakes fixes everything. But when you're manuvering a 40 ton semi hauling hazmat tanker, it's often the worst thing you can do.
“Segregate the self driving cars to a separate lane”, and create new control mechanisms and communication in these lanes in order to not rely on human errors, and have it be a public system managed by the Department of Transportation? Maybe you might as well link up these self driving cars into chains, since most people are going the same way anyway on these lanes, and since you’re not reliant on many drivers then you could fill up a lot more passengers in the cars, and have large hubs along these lanes that people can take a bus or something to i.. wait a minute… why do I feel like this already exists?
Ironically, the worst drivers I've encountered in the last week were people who rely on the features you begin to list at 13:20 to drive while they focus on other things - like looking down from the road to text with both hands, or straight up sleep. I don't feel any safer knowing that shit like FSD and lane assist is enabling people who shouldn't be on the road.
I am continually surprised something is able to be named and sold as "full self driving" when you can't take your hands off the wheel or eyes off the road when you drive it.
@@anti-tryhardthe word beta there is being massively abused. a beta is a project which might not be in its final form but effectively has all of the main features. Calling this "self-driving beta" is like calling the Wright Flyer the prototype for the F-22. This is not beta. this software is one step on a ladder of dozens of other steps that could, in theory, result in self-driving. In short, as is frequently the case, it's just deceptive marketing.
@@Laotzu.Goldbug It's really not, you can look up Tesla FSD V12.3 and half of the time it's actually safer than the people driving around it. of course it's going to end up in the wrong lane every once in a while, maybe drive a bit too slow here and there, but its not like it barely misses a pedestrian every 5 minutes. These are small mistakes, and if they are fixed (which they will) we'll have a self-driving car safer than 90% of human drivers.
I felt the whole, "post on our discord or forums" part. Video games have done that for years to reduce complaints and let their toxic fanbase deal with people who have issues in the game. Depending on the community you might get an answer sandwiched between insults and trolls, and if it doesn't bug you, then more power to you, but it is definitely a system to reduce valid complaints, and manipulate people and outsourcing customer service cost.
and then there's developers that move their primary method of communication to a discord they control so that they can filter out all the negative discourse and act like their game has no issues.
Great video Ben! I live in an EU country where we don't generally own/need cars, so I just rent a car for long family trips in the summer and winter. I wish more manufacturers heard this - I always rent out a Tesla (no fsd). Not because it is the best, nor cheapest - but because it is the most predictable. Every Tesla has roughly the same level of driver assist, which is as you say super useful for these long trips, removing the need for the lottery of choosing a vehicle every single time and taking half a day to get used to its quirks. Get a Volvo or a Mercedes or a Peugeot or a Nissan, and you might get all or none of those features, and they, may work slightly differently. I wish there was a standardised way for companies to communicate these capabilities. You don't rent a car and wonder if it will have safety buckles or breaks, so why are lane centering, tempomat, assist not standard.
All for the low low price of adding a massive infrastructure independently to every one of hundreds of major cities in the US as part of a culture many Americans don't prefer. The best solutions aren't always the most pragmatic.
@estD16 cars also require a massive infrastructure. Supercharger stations cost anywhere from $60,000 to $350,000 a piece. And that's charging alone. In order to transition to EV, there will be an investment in the BILLIONS in the US in EV charging. Adding a single lane on a freeway can also cost BILLIONS. Not to mention the cost of parking, gas infrastructure, car maintenance services, DMV, and the list goes on.
@@sevargas1 Oh of course. It's just hard to do in the US because governments, both large and small, are absolutely terrible at spending money. They can't help themselves to not taking it and making themselves and their friends rich with it with all sorts of middle men and approval committees and everything else. So the same stuff isn't do-able in the US as other countries when it comes to spinning up new infrastructure.
@@alvadagansta Yeah but it's easier to phase into what we already have. Uses the same roads and driveways and what-not. People can also charge at home. I'm not saying it's perfect, or you're wrong, or anything else - and supercharger stations in particular have many issues (that cost estimate you gave btw, in terms of a commercial project is absurdly cheap, they'd be thrilled if they could put up a station for that much). Just saying that it builds on what we have already, where-as trains do not (at least local trains do not).
Okay, Im just 9 minutes in, but as an actual dad, the "dad" putting his kid in front of a self driving vehicle to do a collision avoidance test is bloody infuriating to me.
The father (Tad Park) should have been arrested for child endangerment. He literally risked his child's life so he could put out a Tesla hype video and see a profit on his investments. He should have been invested by child protective services upon posting evidence that he values his financial portfolio over his own child's immediate safety. If someone staked their child's life at the casino, we'd put them in prison. What he did was exactly the same.
Especially since it was an unnecessary test. Use a realistic mannequin instead, the car should not hit something that even slightly resembles a person. Or any obstacle for that matter.
Regarding the use of Lidar and a few other sensors you mentioned: I used to work as a mechanical engineer on an autonomous Robotics project (Roxo FedEx same day robot) which has since been canceled. I've seen firsthand the readings the robots get from lidar, short range radar, long range radar, normal cameras, and depth sensing cameras (Intel Realsense). The bots originally had ultrasonic sensors but they were removed in favor of radar which is a lot better and can deal with inclement weather much better than cameras or lidar, though Tesla also ditched radar for no good reason from their cars. The lidar systems we used were probably $10000 each by themselves for a really good 360 spinning lidar system with a very long range (I think it was like 30 meters). The short range radar could cover a nearly 180 degree sweep and tell where an object was and how far it was up to about 9 meters and would make a 2d point loud within that vision cone. It would 3asily spot something the size of a child and those sensors were not that expensive either, though implementing them is a bit complicated as the surface they looking through can cause reflections and putting them near metal causes problems and a host of other issues. Long story short the delivery robot project still was years away from being safe to move robots at 15mph around pedestrians on the sidewalk at night or during the rain, let alone a car on the road at several times that speed with shittier or no sensors besides cameras. Musk has no fucking idea what he is doing.
Also, what level of granularity can he see at this range? Can he see/detect a bird sized object? Rabbit sized object? Dog sized object? Deer? Human? Motorcycle? or just car/automobile and above level??? @@RoamingAdhocrat
My understanding was that Musk’s reasoning for avoiding lidar/radar was to prove that it could all be done with cameras only more so than it was to cut costs. Is that not the case?
@@evanwilliamson8338 - by extension, saving money at scale by making cars with barely beyond the minimum required hardware, which means better prices for replacing EVERY car with a robotaxi whenever the system is actually capable of that, but also means that other manufacturers can build cars with roughly the same ~8 cameras and the FSD software and it can go! absolutely enormous robotaxi fleet, almost literally over night... someday... or... that's the idea, at least
@@evanwilliamson8338”self driving is much safer than people driving! Let’s give our FSD the same capabilities as humans, except worse, and except ears, smell and feel.”
My town (Hamburg, Germany) is testing autonomous public transport right now to be used in the newly constructed and soon to be constructed city districts, designed to be compatible with autonomous public transport. I‘ve been really hype about it so far. Now I‘m so conflicted.
Building a nice great train system fixes so many problems including the one where you have to actively drive your car, it's self driving technology at its finest... You can also sleep in it without worrying about dying
I’m one of those people that would hate the loss of vehicle ownership. -I would loose the freedom to just go out to a remote field to fly my RC planes whenever I want (and loose the storage space to put all these battery chargers, planes, controllers without figuring out how to haul stuff without getting stared at). So many hobbies I have that a public transport won’t be able to just drop me off in a weird spot while I haul a 5ft wing. -Not worry about routes and schedules, having the temperature and high quality music I want. I can do more leisure travel anyway and be able to make private phones calls. -I’m in a clean environment that I know I cleaned and not sitting on cloth seat filled with dust (unless it was Japan, my experience there was excellent). -I can just go to a random dark place after work and enjoy the sky away from civilization. -During long trips, I’m not bound by the bus/train not being able to stop at a cool spot. With a car I can go enjoy a sunset overlooking a mountain. If I became handicapped I could still do many things that public transportation just would not be able to provide that an owned self driving car could do. I can even send it off to park in a free spot after dropping me off. Sometimes public transportation works and sometimes it doesn’t. Neither vehicle ownership or public transportation is an objectively good option for all. Unless I was (unfortunately) in a city where public transportation is the only logical option, I would not even consider it in a typical American lifestyle if it were easily available where I live. Many hobbies and enjoyments would literally be killed if I lived where little enjoyments just had to be left behind.
@@battery_wattage I'm not saying ban cars lol, but most people don't need them, realistically most of them are just going to the grocery store and to work... that can easily be accomplished by a train system... If you really want a road trip - rent a car, once or twice a year... Anyways, if it's someone like you who wants to drive to some field, no autonomous car nor train will do that while carrying equipment, so I can see a use for a car there, again - I'm not saying ban cars... but yes, ban them mostly... people who need them need them, you can never replace the need for a car
@@aquss33 Not even "easily accomplished" by a train system--in many ways, actively preferable. Although to get there, we would have to decentralize groceries, which are now absolutely dominated by major chains and supercenters. I would love to just hop on my bike for a half-mile jaunt to the local grocer. Exercise and an errand at the same time. Way more efficient!
Think of it this way. The number of things a train can do while underway is way less than a car. Railways are a way more controlled enviroment than a road, you aren't surprised by a sudden lack of signeage and lane indicators, and fewer children play on the train tracks than in the street. Trains have way more oversight than cars, there is someone monitoring every switch and light. But we have yet to build fully automated trains.
@@blue_ish4499 Not in the slightest. We've automated boats, we've automated fucking PLANES, but nobody's thought of trying to automate a train. The best we have is a system that can force a train into a full stop if it ignores a red signal. Though... actually thinking about it I believe there are some places that have freight trains that're fully autonomous.
Well, there kinda is automated trains: you have metros (like is paris), that are fully automated. And nothing is stopping us from making a train that has an hybrid system like for planes, switching from manual to automatic depending on the context
And yet every couple months I hear about some massive train derailment where dozens of people died. Even in those controlled environments it would seem that trains can be incredibly unsafe.
While I agree with the major points of this video (and congrats for pushing out of your comfort zone on this one, Benn!), the problem with advocating for a shift towards purpose-built autonomous vehicles based on distributed intelligence is that there are so many uncertain and unpredictable factors that can happen in the real world compared to a nice closed-world and fully-observable environment like the Boids simulation you were running on. Things break down in the real world, infrastructure, connectivity, sensors are noisy & unreliable, and what's to stop Timmy Trump from running into the autonomous vehicle-only lanes? By the time you've fully accomodated for all these factors, I'd argue that you're already more than halfway to solving the general self driving problem. I note that these aren't mutually exclusive solutions, though, so it may still be viable to pursue. However, investing in public transport instead still makes so much more sense 🙂
I am sure someone mentioned this already…..regarding the exclusive lane concept…GM already did it in the 90’s. It was an experiment on the 805 in San Diego. Cars would enter the freeway…cars equipped with the same tech would find each other and create “platoons.” The platoons were able to travel super efficiently because all the cars would watch each other. You could have coffee and read a paper etc. When your exit came up the car would alert you and the other members of the platoons. The platoon would open up - then you manually leave the platoon and exit. It relied on infrastructure in the road and hardware/software. It was the BOIDS in real life. Its goal was to make freeway commuting safer and much more faster and if worked. It may not be end to end FSD but imagine your daily commute going from two hours to 30 mins because of this concept. Check it out if you haven’t already.
Insane quality to this production! I LOVE seeing how your style translates to these non-music videos! It’s clear that your editing and presentation style meant to make music content less awful actually translates into captivating videos for other topics as well! Amazing work as always Benn, your channel always brings the hits.
I totally agree, we should put the autonomous vehicles on a separate track and allow communication between them on a network. And maybe we could add stations so people can get on and off whenever they want. And maybe we could chain a bunch of cars together so they can carry more people! Omg this sounds like a great idea, we should call it the TRansport Autonomous Independent Network or... TRAIN for short!
Okay...but what if people don't like riding on trains? What if someone wants to be alone or with their family and not with 30 or so strangers? What if you want to go somewhere that's no on the route everyone else wants to go to? Trains are never going to be a workable solution until people start actually making them a better option than cars, and that means addressing the actual shortcomings. If you want people to ride trains, you need to ask why people don't like riding them now and find a way to fix that. For example, what train lets you get on and off "Whenever you want" rather than on a tight and regular schedule of departure and arrival times in the best case scenario? Assuming it doesn't come late or get canceled or just not come? I've had trains cancelled on my in the Colorado Winter. It's not very fun. What train accommodates all schedules? It's all well and good if you work a normal 9-to-5 but not everyone does. When I worked a job that got off at 10PM there was 1 rail going from the city center to my home. If something happened at work or I am running behind and miss the train? Well sucks to be me, the next one doesn't come till early next morning. I don't even like driving, but after a year of dealing with the bus and train system, I caved and just bought a car. More comfortable, more convenient, more safe, more clean, and more flexible.
when they say "safer than humans" what they really mean is safer than drunk drivers or drivers who use their phone, or extremely bad drivers who shouldn't even have a driving license to begin with
You think it's not true that a good driver, aware of his surroundings, is going to be better on the road comapred to a self driving car? I think a good defensive driver would be better@@otakudjr
Computers attached to a fleet of sensors can perceive better and react faster than a sober human who is paying attention. Whether they do react is a different story.
The best human driver ever is the goal so it should technically be better than any single person since this would be an optimization of all the best drivers.
I drive and text all the time - no accidents since 2006 (before "modern" texting) - so it's not safer than a texting driver. A tesla would have amassed a pile of bodies by now.
Slight correction on the lidar point - it's really bad in stormy weather and fog, as well as mud, and it's very comptutationally expensive just like Tesla's cameras. Radar sensors are better in that case, and they can see behind some obstacles. Lidar is not some be-all-end-all of sensors, especially in terms of cost effectiveness.
@@geekswithfeet9137 Train is a better solution to the problem at hand. You cant fit an extra lane into every small street, so autonomous cars would have to be limited to main roads. At that point, just build a track instead. Even then, there is more than enough roads already as it is. Reducing cars is a beneficial in every way.
@@captainmorgan2530 do you realise the insanity of the amount of tracks would need to be installed? Trains serve a purpose for central hubs and long distance. But I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but they don’t have steering and can’t go off road very well
@@geekswithfeet9137 Wow it's almost like public transport systems are actually SYSTEMS and thus any good train system is interlinked with a good tram, bus, bike infrastructure, and walkable housing systems
@@geekswithfeet9137 I think @grinffi pretty much said what I would. Its not just about spamming bunch of trains. Its about an interlinked system where trains connect cities and towns, within those trams, buses, and metro systems allow you to get pretty much anywhere. On top of that, a good bike and pedestrian infrastructure can ease accessing them, or replace them for shorter distances. Its not about removing the car completely, just giving people other means of transport, so they dont have to solely rely on this inefficient, expensive system that also destroys our cities and enviroment in its current state.
No, a railroad is a fixed point-to-point link. A road network has many (sometimes infinite) overlapping inlets and outlets, so you can go to many places. For instance, an HOV lane is not a railroad, and light rail doesn't do the same thing an HOV lane does.
@@louisvaught2495 Railroad is imo supposed to be a backbone for a finer net of bus or tram lines so that you can get in walking distance of your destination. HOV lanes are pretty static as well
@@louisvaught2495 Ah, got it. So, what is this Hyperloop thing? Just kidding. Musk revealed that Hyperloop was just meant to kill rail traffic without ever actually getting implemented. I guess Elon Musk talks about Spurbus (yes, that's German word), a concept he invented and implemented more than 80 years before he was born.
@@louisvaught2495 I visit Prague quite often. Now Prague isnt the pinackle of public transport, but its still arguebly faster to go to a nearest tram/metro/bus station and get to your destination that way, than if you had to get through traffic, and then find a parking spot. That is even considering, that the city is still overly car centric, and refuses to put a low speed limit for cars. Public transport (especially in US) doesnt get you where you want effectively, because it often operates on fraction of the budget that car infrastructure does. Also the cities are being designed in a way, that makes the car the only viable option in a lot of places, thanks to ineffective land use.
A lot seems to depend on context. In SF we've been seeing Waymo vehicles circling our block for several years, as they map the details of the city's geography. I can imagine that they can do pretty well in a locale where they've accumulated millions of miles of training data. And in fact Waymo seems pretty reasonably able to navigate a ride from the Sunset to North Beach. But this does not imply that they can do this in Oakland, or Walnut Creek or San Mateo.
I just rode in a Tesla from a parking space in one city to a parking space in another city, without doing anything. It drove the whole way. Does that not count as “driving me around?”
Thanks for making this video. I’m a bit less skeptical of FSD’s future than you, but I’ve only used it a handful of times and its mistakes scared the heck out of me so I quit. It also tried to kill me last week when I was driving fully manual: it incorrectly detected a pending side impact and swerved heavily into the next lane - which had another vehicle in it directly beside me. If I hadn’t been holding the wheel with both hands it would’ve snatched it right out of my hands and I’d have collided. Great fun!
I just spent a bit under a month in Japan and set up my trip to maximize the value I got out of the JR Pass I purchased beforehand, which meant my travel plans prioritized trains over everything else, and it is incredible what a difference it makes when a culture actually values civic infrastructure. Just a single example: I traveled from downtown Kyoto to a small town on the shores of Lake Hamano in a few hours and taking 3 trains, two of which were run by private rail companies (lest you think socialism is required to have functional mass transit). The last (private) train I was on was also the most expensive per kilometer, but that's because it was a single-car diesel train that was effectively a bus on rails, and it still only cost me a few bucks / ¥400 each way. The point is, I was able to get from somewhere to almost nowhere without leaving train stations and without relying on individual transport, and the experience wasn't entirely convenient (it was cold, and some of the waits between trains were pretty long), but it was easy and cheap. And I don't know a lot about how bands tour in Japan, but live houses generally have good-quality backlines and baggage delivery services are convenient, cheap, and relatively timely. Our (Americans') insistence that having our own cars guarantees us the most freedom and convenience is not as self-evidently true as we seem to think it is. And while it's kind of a tired observation by now that Elon used Hyperloop as a stalking horse to take down high-speed rail, it does seem pretty clear based on the evidence that a huge part of his tireless hyping of autopilots is rooted in financial self-interest and an ideological opposition to increased efficiency through shared infrastructure to realize economies of scale.
Japanese public transport system is heavily subsidised, same as in Switzerland. It's not as visible as in other countries, it's not a "yearly bailout", it's mainly the government pouring money into the rail network and letting private companies operate on it. I'm not an American, I'm Czech. Prague is often praised for having "the best" (or second best) public transport in the EU, yet it is heavily subsidised and unless you buy a year pass, it's still about as expensive as driving in a car alone. Cars are not subsidised and the fuel is subject to heavy taxation. Without cars, the whole public transportation system would collapse as it is paid for from the money taken in extra fuel taxes.
Besides what Neverstopschweiking said, it's also magnitudes smaller than the US. It's just not feasible. It's the primary reason you have more public transport on the eastern half given the proximity of cities and towns etc. whereas the closer you get to the divide the farther apart everything starts getting.
@@kevadu The US ones? Where I live, in the Czech Republic, our road network is fully maintained from the tax on fuel alone. Plus it generates so much money it pays for rails as well.
You already mentioned a few downsides... like more exposure to climate while changing rides, waiting times. Trains also often are overcrowded, especially short distance rides like Subways and in many places dirty/stinky. Also they only can bring you from station to station and you rarely ever want to go to just a railway station, so you need a different transport at the other end... like a bus, tram, subway or taxicab... Trains still are pretty convenient and if you have the money for a high class train like Shinkansen or german ICEs it's a great and comfortable experience. Almost better than flying, except for the timesaving over middle and longhaul flights...
As a motorcyclist, 'self-driving cars' keep trying to kill me and my kin. Ditto kangaroos. Self-driving cars seem to hate them (or more accurately can't process their strange profile and movement) ... And kangaroos are extremely dangerous animals to run into because they have a habit of being very high off the ground when they move quickly, and thus a habit of going through your windshield and killing people in the front seat, thrashing about madly in their terror and death throes and tearing apart people inside the cars with their claws and tail. This is prevented by drivers slowing down around them on the side of the road, or hitting the breaks before colliding with one. So personally, not crash hot on them. '''Self driving''' cars, that is. I like kangaroos. And the problem is you can never actually escape the argument of personal responsibility with or without them. I had a person argue; 'But hypothetically, autonomous vehicles will be safer eventually.' Here's the problem, though... The roads have never been safe, but at least we've always had 'someone to blame' ... The driver(s), or a dodgy mechanic, or someone playing silly buggers on the side of the road. Who exactly is to blame when oh so often a motorcycle or kangaroo isn't recognized as a motorcycle or kangaroo and an 'autonomous vehicle' decides to park a wheel on top of them at an intersection, or not hit the breaks in front of one? Now if these vehicles get marketed as 'self-driving', then a***holes will pretend like the threat of murdering motorcyclists and kangaroos isn't their problem. The automakers call it 'teething problems', but that's not really a concern to me because me and my bike are under a two metric ton EV monster that while also tearing up public roads far more because of their massive battery beds, are also a hell of a lot more frightening because they're heavier and everybody keeps spewing 'self-driving tech' at the target demographic of them. And here's the thing ... I pay taxes. I ride a motorbike because I love motorbikes. And they're more greener than even the greenest EV will ever be. I get 21ks to the litre on my Moto Guzzi V7 Stone. How much power and how many tyres do you go through with your Model Y? How much does your Model Y weigh and how much road wear do you think it contributes to infrastructure costs and the pollution of fixing them for said unnecessary wear? If we add in resources, materials use, parking infrastructure, charging bays, industrial processes, and more--It's no contest ... My Moto Guzzi will be greener than your Model Y from now until the year 10,000AD. Because my Moto Guzzi isn't a two metric ton monster. Bonus points? I won't be murdering people unlike your Model Y does *routinely* ... I accept the risks of riding a motorcycle. If people who buy EVs are doing it to 'be green', why don't they buy a motorbike instead? And while I will accept a world where I can't ride my motorbike because of fantastic public transport, and everybody living by bus and train and all that *actually* green technology--I refuse to pay taxes to maintain worse roads for the sake of people pretending to be 'green' having an 'autonomous' monster-weight vehicle threatening to kill me and the wildlife with reckless abandon. If the only counter-argument to this is; 'You should drive a car instead to be safer on the roads and should just accept EVs will murder you if you are a motorcyclist.' ... that's unreasonable. I think that's not fair. I think it's deeply inconsiderate, and while I'm not a Stalinist--I think we should send people like that to the labour camps. You're basically as bad as all those urbanites that drive SUVs just because they can, and because they have erectile dysfunction or Karen syndrome, and want to take it out on the rest of the community by terrorizing the roads.
@@thedubwhisperer2157 Absolutely. I mean, the thing is automakers are just treating us as guinea pigs. BMW guy came out and years ago tried to argue that autonomous vehicles should predicate the driver's safety over all other concerns, including other vehicles and pedestrians... The thing is, I've never been part of human experimental trials without having signed a thing called a 'consent form' ... So why exactly do automakers get to treat us like guinea pigs despite objectively having a profit motive to excuse the fact that they keep murdering us? The way I see it, it's best to think of this A.I. nonsense on vehicles should be seen as human experimental trials--And unless every possible 'participant' (literally everybody in a country) signs, get stuffed Elon and co. Could you imagine such a consent form? "Hey, we believe the owners' safety of our vehicles should be predicated over not driving over your kids or grandparents, or your Auntie Jane or Uncle Joe on their Triumph... Do you give us permission to test the extents of this programming in our two metric ton death-mobile because car drivers should be allowed to play with our Tesla iPads instead of being held legally responsible for operating their vehicle and keeping their attention on the road? Thank you for considering being part of this grand sociological experiment at your expense. P.S. If we run you over, can we also get permission to all your metadata?"
Current cars can't tell the difference between a block of foam and a block of concrete. If it's a block of foam and I have a semi truck behind me I won't brake, but the car could decide to brake even if it's way more dangerous. My car has HDA (Hyundai Driving Assist) and I've disabled almost everything. The lane centering just ping-pongs between the lanes and sometimes tries to take exits, and in one year so far I had to do emergency braking 3 times on my own because the radar cruise control was going to plow into stopped cars. Add to that the fact that these don't work in winter (so 4 months a year where I live) and it's pretty useless.
Current cars yes, but the same clues that let a human figure out it's just foam can also be picked up by a properly programed autopilot. The current tech is there yet but this still doesn't mean auto drive programs will never be as good as human drivers.
I don't understand why Hyundai's system doesn't work in winter. The only winter problem I've noticed with my Model 3 is the automatic braking & acceleration systems don't properly recognize snow/ice until the wheels start slipping. A human would already know (and remember) that an icy road is slippery and behave differently. The car computer hasn't been programmed to recognize that. Yet. It's also not a good idea to use one system (Hyundai) and say that's how all of the systems behave. In 5 years I've never had lane centering be a problem. Same with Adaptive Cruise Control. These features on a Tesla are so good I think Adaptive Cruise should be mandatory on all new cars. That will prevent inattentive humans from hitting other vehicles when driving down the highway. But not all companies systems are created the same.
@@ddegn they maybe address the easiest 80% of use cases currently, the last 20% are the hardest to deal with. The edge cases take way more effort and processing power than the day to day cases.
@@davedujour1 they don’t work in winter when the lanes aren’t visible, when it’s snowing and the radar and camera are blocked, when there’s salt on the road and the windshield is so dirty that the camera is blocked, and since they now use eco friendly paint for the lanes they tend to be completely erased by the end of winter.
Interesting. I have had cameras covered in snow that degrades FSD, but even snow covered lanes and paint that's not visible, my Tesla still handles lane centering and adaptive cruise. It does require more cleaning of the cameras though.
Steering correction is so dangerous for me Every time I’m loaned a trash car like that I turn it off It feels like it’s fighting me and it guarantees I run over potholes It doesn’t understand road hazards
I won't name them, but I ride with someone who LOVES to hug the SIDE of a lane. Scares the hell outta me. If you are constantly fighting lane correction, this might be a clue for you. {}------{} | U | | | {}------{} U are not in the MIDDLE of the car, U are to the side. 1. | - U | 2. | - U | 3. | - U | 1. Is correct. (Unless in a country that drives on the other side of the road of course) If that's not you, np just a nice reminder for anyone else reading lol. And if formatting is wrong on whatever you are viewing this, please ignore I tried my best.
I love the boyds example, but when I think about the idea for a separate lane or highway for self driving vehicles, I just want the lane to be a TRAIN.
Even with all this taken into account, I still say "never say never". New technologies start out expensive and shitty, then a bit less expensive and a bit less shitty, but finally they become affordable and good
That's not true at all. Plenty of technologies never get cheap enough or good enough to be household items. SOME technologies do, but far from all. 25 years ago, people were saying that CNC machines would be so cheap and easy to use that everyone would have one in their home. 5 years ago, people were saying the same thing about 3D printers and wondering why people like me were rolling our eyes. Home automation has existed since the 1980s and has always sucked to various degrees, even when re-branded to "smart home". One could easily go on with examples.
That table at 14:32 from lendingtree did indeed come from a study with severe methodological errors as you suspect. They didn't collect data on people driving those cars, they collected data on people who were attempting to get insurance quotes to buy a car from that company.
If we are going to make a separate road network for autonomous vehicles. You have reinvented the train. A piece of technology that has been around for 200 years and something that no other form of transportation can match in terms of scalability or driver safety.
Except not at all, because what these roads would be and what trains tracks are are two COMPLETELY different things. All that these vehicles need are more clear and consistent markings and some more formality in the rules of their use. It's not that big of an ask.
@@Chris-xo2rq The problem is far more expansive, you have to ensure that nothin external gets onto this road, no children, animals, etc... this would just again be a shitty version of a train, as all the other individual "pod" ideas have been... very expensive and all without the capacity and reliability of a train. What happens when a car break down. Do you just lock down the entire road until pople have retrieved it?
@@Chris-xo2rq No amount of roads can match the per meter scalability or efficiency of a train. We have thousands of miles of rail already built all over the US. What you are suggesting is that we make not just more highways, but more and expensive highways instead of just using that time, money, and engineering to build out more and better trains. High speed rail is the only, I will say that again, the only form of mass transportation that pays for itself. Trains get more efficient and cost less the faster they go, cars cannot go as fast as trains.
I own a tesla with full self driving. I totally agree. My car began to stop for a redlight earlier today and then decided "Nah" and tried to blow through it instead. The software is cutting edge... but it being closed source and not audited is insane. Not to mention doesn't help other companies collaborate to move the tech further to keep us safe in this critical point in it's development lifecycle. A professor of mine in college spoke about this in my Software Engineering class. He said (I'm paraphrasing), "You need to take what you write seriously. The title "Software Engineer" is malformed. Software engineers are not held to the same standard as other engineers. We already write software that can kill people and that will only become more true as time goes on."
true. I had a professor when I was a chem eng student who put it clearly: a classmate asked him for partial credit on a homework problem. He said "when your calculation error results in the refinery you designed exploding, will you get a partial paycheck?" a partial fine & jail sentence too I would think. ☠️
One of my favorite sayings about that is “if structural engineers designed buildings the way software engineers designed software, the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization.”
I just rented a tesla for the first time. I was told it didn't have self driving but found it I. The options and turned it on anyway. Having driven it about 350 miles so far it's awesome. Self driving cars are bit only the inevitable future, it will some day be illegal to drive your own vehicles on public roads. Sure that is around 100 years away realistically speaking but considering that point it will have been less than 200 years since before that for all of human history that the closest anyone got to self driving was a horse or camel.
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who has a Tesla who regrets it. There’s so much focus on the self-driving (don’t have it, don’t want it) but I don’t see nearly enough talk about how dangerous the autopilot is. I’m in a winter climate and I just don’t even use it. It isn’t worth it since it gets disabled ridiculously easily and the way it disables is beyond scary. I learned this the hard way driving on the highway, autopilot on, and the cameras got obscured enough by snow sludge that it just disabled when I was in the middle of a curve. Teslas don’t gradually slow down like combustion vehicles, so that combined with the steering going from turning to straight (on that curve) scared the crap out of me and I had my hands on the wheel the whole time. Then there’s the wipers that I can only control by hitting a button and looking away from the road to the screen to select the speed I want. How that was allowed to be done is beyond my comprehension. Elon Musk is a menace and shouldn’t be the CEO of anything, let alone any company that makes things that require safety standards.
Hi Benn, I’m fellow driver of FSD & OpenPilot. I’ve been driving a Tesla since 2018. I had a 2018 Model 3 & now have a 2023 Model Y. I guess that makes be a repeat offender. Back in 2018 I was a huge believer in Tesla’s vision (Elon’s vision) of FSD. That has changed quite a bit to the point I don’t think my Tesla Model Y will ever become a robotaxi. In early 2020 I purchased a 2019 Kia Niro PHEV and install a Comma AI with OpenPilot. And yeah, like you, I went through a long testing period until I found something that worked for me. All that to say I really enjoyed your video. It was very detailed. In fact, when watching it I felt like I was reliving my life in the last five years as an unpaid autonomous driving beta testier. So, thank you for the time you spend creating this content. Hopefully more people will understand there’s more to this autonomous driving stuff.
As a motorcycle rider.... these cars have been going wonky since they disabled the radar units and removed them from all the new ones. More than a statistical anomaly amount of motorcyclists because the vision system is far from perfect. It scares me worse now that the logic used in the car is to not FORCE the driver to take over when it doesn't know.
@@danparish1344 by being smarter than most cars. The issue is that they are confusing motorcycles up close to cars at a distance from how it's been explained to me.
@@BenefitOfTheDoubtInquiry well, from what I've seen in this video and a couple of others, it encounters an issue and keeps in control until it can't see that issue anymore. I would much prefer the system to make the human take over. My car does that, but it appears that Tesla doesn't.
The fact that my old 2001 mini van I drove for years had better sensing technology for it's backup warning system than a modern Tesla has for it's automatic breaking system is pretty good evidence cutting corners while charging the most is all this company cares about.
23:02 hmmm, maybe those lanes can be composed of 2 metal guide bars that are embedded into the the earth, and the cars will travel on and along these bars. If only there was a system that did that.
Perhaps we could even separate these road-rails from other forms of traffic and simplify the door-to-door pickup problem by centralizing places where people could get on the self-driving vehicles in convenient locations!
And if we connect several cars together into a long wormy thing, it would make it even more efficient. And then we could have nice seats, maybe a small restaurant to eat, for longer journeys a bed to sleep in and.... Why have no one thought of this?
@@Xanthopteryx And maybe we can make land grow on trees, and we can pick that land from the trees, and spread it all over the existing cities and suburban infrastructure to facilitate the operation of these wormy things.
Hey. So it's the first time I see your videos and It's been a big surprise to me to actually recognize your face from one of your albums and realize you're the Flashbulb. It's hard to underestimate how your music affected my teenage years, memories and art that I was inspired to do by it. Great content as well!
"volunteered his child" to the cps? that should be an immediate and without any further question removal of the child from the idiots care. you volunteer yourself if you think it is safe or want to test something, and even that is usually questionable.
I, as a car guy, actually would perfer better public transportation infrastructure than more self driving tech, for the near future at least. Free up the road for total analog drivers like me and all the people that hate commuting car just chill for the majority of their way to work.
Sounds like you really need to get into trains. The Paris Metro has had self-driving since the 1950s. M1 went fully self-driving (level 4) in 2011. There are now 3 Level 4 Metro lines in Paris. It works, no accidents, I've tried it myself. This is how you separate autonomous vehicles - in tunnels under the city...
Different country, different culture. Trains aren't big for people transport in the US, and that won't change b/c many people in the US don't like standing pressed up against one another more than they don't like sitting in their car in traffic.
@@MrSlowestD16 Dude, we have just as big a country but with 8% of the population. On the Ghan you can travel for days across the desert, eating well, sleeping comfortably. Most of us get to work on Trains, cities are designed around them. Trains work really well. The US has had some kind of weird train phobia for the past 70 years.
It always trips me up how much people are willing to ignore when it comes to full self driving. They are so invested in the idea that FSD is safer than humans that they would rather ignore all evidence and call people shills than go "Yeah maybe there's a lot of work to be done here..."
I follow exactly one guy who tests FSDbeta precisely because he says when things are crap, that he still wouldn’t trust it in most of the scenarios he tests for day to day driving, and still only uses it as a “sanity check” for his own driving most of the time (like not veering off wildly, or sometimes it avoids a deer he didn’t see). Everyone else I saw testing it was an insufferable hype monster.
same people who think we will colonize mars in the coming years; they're too invested in the fiction sold by grifters now. also same people who think AI can actually replace artists.
I came to the conclusion a few years ago that Full Self Driving will NOT come until 5 years plus AFTER its finally been solved, to account for REGULATORS fully testing and APPROVING or Certifying it. So, whenever Elon "Officially" announces that FSD is finally here (ACTUALLY "officially", lol... not his typical hype BS)... automatically expect it to come out 5 years from that 'official' day. And that's how everyone should think/assume it will happen... cause after 10 years of hearing/waiting for "full self driving... by next year", it's obviously a bluff and not coming any time soon (and by soon, I mean multiple years at a minimum)
@@valdir7426 Do you think that technology, of all sorts, will simply stay at it's current level and not continuously evolve over time? You seem delusional. Compare "AI" from 10 years ago to today, and then think about how it will be 10 years from now, or 50 years from now. AI not only CAN replace artists (and a whole ton of other jobs), but it WILL replace artists. Especially when no one can tell the difference between the 2 (tons of boomers already can't tell the difference between the 2 right now as it is, as you can see tons of comments from them on Facebook posts of very obvious AI generations as if they were real photos)
@@rdizzy1 you're the one delusional AI will probably work for mediocre PR work but it will not replace artists. in fact remove the original artists and AI has nothing to munch on and starts canibalizing itself. The tool we have are fun and some of it will probably be integrated into creation tools like photoshop but if money people actually think it will replace artists we'll be left with a cultural landfill of extreme mediocrity. Also very much like self driving cars this kind of technological tool has a ceiling and going from "ahah mickey mouse in the style of Magritte" to "the AI replace artists" is not going to happen. Use AI for its idiosyncrasies and help it can provide, not to replace actual human creativity.
Autonomous metro systems are very definitely a thing, and they often get installed to replace the busiest bus routes. There will still be a need for buses on less busy routes though, and autonomous metros are very definietely not staff-free.
@@katrinabryce Going to take decades to convince DOT and FMCA to allow fully autonomous buses on the road. They tried to put EV buses where I work, and the batteries couldn't keep a charge. I have little faith in any substantial changes happening anytime soon.
@@JohnSmith-qe6fb don't listen to Katrina, she probably knows nothing about commerical driving or AI. The loudest voices usually understand the least about what they talk about.
@@snorttroll4379 A rude and naive statement that consists of nothing. Autonomous road travel is hyped as something great; It doesn't achieve anything that we can't already do.
I live in Vancouver, which has the SkyTrain, a fully autonomous train system that's been running for almost 40 years, and seeing how well it operates-even the 40-year-old first-generation train cars are still operating on the Expo Line just fine-compared to these laughable attempts to make autonomous cars, frustrates me to no end. It's almost like we'd have a much easier time implementing autonomous vehicles if those vehicles didn't have to focus on trying to detect all manner of traffic signs, lane markings, obstacles, and pedestrians; and instead were put on grade-separated track where the only things they have to worry about are speeding up and slowing down for curves, stopping at stations, and keeping enough distance between the trains in front and behind. I'd say imagine that, but I don't have to, because it's literally how I commute to my college everyday and it's _great._ Give me more of it please, and not Elon Musk's Pathological Lying Machine.
For someone making a video on this, heres a little tip: You do not need to jerk the wheel when the Tesla asks you to. Just turn the music up or down on the scroll wheel, or up on the opposite scroll wheel to increase max speed.
@@nowayoutalive8732 Not me but watching those that have it and it's a comment they made in the video. It looks incredible. They all seem to say it's super smooth, which you can't tell just by watching the video, and doesn't have those 'janky' moments any more. Tap FSD12 into search and filter by last week. Phillip.
Data sources on Elonworld: twitter.com/bennjordan/status/1744410056429388037
Intro track: "The Wave" by @Superlative
The $TSLA dudes coping in the comments is so rewarding.
Elon haters like this clown are 1,000 times worse than Elon dick riders. The dude is a leftwing zealot shilling for his cult masters.
Actually, I call them "Muskrats".
That track slaps.
why did you switch from FSD to regular autopilot meant for highways at 5:50? im not even mad, but your desperation for engagement is worse than the $TSLA guys
I really hope Elon reads this, bro.@@naahh
I wonder if Silicon Valley will ever finally arrive at trains? I would be willing to let them claim they had the brilliant idea all on their own, if it gets us to where they stop reinventing worse trains.
Collectivism and/or anything that is not profit driven is deemed "communism" to a capitalist, and against their goals of profiting from everything. These are the same people who can't wait until they can sell us air. They don't WANT trains, because they can't profit as much from that.
Silicon Valley only works when people invest absurd capital into a pipe dream, because pipe dreams get investors frisky. And they’re not frisky about the product, they’re frisky about the fact that the rest of the financial institution will also get frisky. Money begets money.
Trains are never going to do that. No one is getting 1000x return on a damn train line. That’s the domain of government, or old, established businesses.
Slap an AI controlled solar / wind powered vitamin B IV drip cart on the back and maybe you have a product. But the train is not the product, there is no product without hype. Because hype is the product.
The railroad industry is in dire need of disruption and recapitalisation
We’ve had autonomous trains since the 70s. Trains are the the crabification of transportation, doesn’t matter what you for short and medium distances trains are the ultimate form. For last mile transportation bikes, e-bikes, scooters, walking are the best. Car should be relegated to emergency services and delivery.
@Victor-kh5rh there is a role for cars for in-frequent and rural personal transportation. But most cities and suburbs should be built so most people don't need a car to get to work, school, and groceries.
FSD already exists. My Dad used to work on the farm and go to the pub after. He'd pass out drunk but always found his way home. The horse would just go back in the barn and finish its hay.
That's probably safer than Musk's FSD.
public transportation is the closest we will EVER get to autonomous vehicles.
@@stretch654
Oh _certainly._
It is the horse taking itself to -water- hay, *_and_* making itself -drink- eat! All with the autonomy of nature!
I always thought if you could teach a crow to drive your car it would do a better job then Tesla FSD.
OMG.
You. Are. A. GENIUS!
First, when you buy a Tesla, you're given a horse. Maybe it goes in the trunk?
Then, when you're getting ready for FHD (full horse driving. um. that was probably obvious), just hookup the horse.
Or maybe Musk can put a horse's brain into the TSLA?
I live in a rural area (no sidewalks) so I always have to turn off my Lane assist, because if I steer to try and avoid pedestrians on the side of the road, the car will sense I'm getting too close to the centerline and actually attempt to steer me into the people I'm trying to avoid.
It also likes to see shadows as lane lines and will freak out sometimes on a specific patch of road thinking i'm actively driving myself into the ditch
Which car in model is that
Interesting. My son has a Tesla and his concierge service will not get with 4 feet of a post in front of it. You are overreacting and the car would center itself. Your brain is so slow to respond you are grabbing it at the deal of yourself and not the response of the computer
This is exactly why I dont want a car any newer than '04, and why I love my little shitbox Cherokee. No lane assist, no radars, no cameras. In fact the most advanced tech that thing has, is the CD changer in the trunk.
All the responsibility of driving is FULLY on me. So if I fuck up, its 100% on me. Which ends up making me a better driver, because I tend to be aware of my surroundings and drive much more carefully and defensively. (tho my experience as a truck driver probably also helps a bit)
@kitsunelegend7976 but what about other drivers who can kill you?
terrifying "technology"
I'm an engineer that works at a major engine manufacturer in north west Missouri with a name that starts with a 'K'. We use automation for stationary machines, and we have floor cleaners that are fully autonomous. The only reason these things function over time is because we have a dedicated maintenance budget and team full of people smarter than the middle of the IQ bell curve. Without this, we wouldn't make engines, as electrical components fail even in a clean and controlled environment.
The average American neglects maintenance on their vehicle simply due to cost or ignorance. Any electrical sensor component necessary for a self driving car to function can and will fail, and the owner can and will neglect maintenance past the point of failure. The wear and tear a vehicle sees is far and above what our machines see inside a plant. A lot of people will be driving heavily depreciated cars that USED to be able to drive themselves that are cost prohibitive to repair, much like the constant-on check engine light that many cars have for some superfluous sensor that nonetheless deactivates cruise control when it's malfunctioning.
Automation is no the solution to all our problems, and it shouldn't be our god.
Where is the Problem. If the Sensors are to dirty your Tesla informs you and FSD will Not Work 🤷
@@davids.6671 Exactly this. If there's a problem with late maintenance, just disable the car.
@@LLF1234if all cars were like this, congratulations you’ve just disabled a massive swath of cars on US roads.
@@davids.6671modules and inverter can and will fail, which will render any machine useless
i read this and am still confused
Not just their own dedicated lanes. We could add rails to those lanes to provide guidance and power. We could add stopping places where unmanned vehicles could allow travelers to embark and disembark. We could even allow people without their own vehicle to buy tickets at those locations to hire a seat in a driverless vehicle that's going in the direction they require. Of course building such infrastructure takes time, so during the transition we could build vehicles with multiple seats, maybe as many as 50 or more, then it could become economically viable to add a human driver to ensure safety. I'm pretty sure something similar should already exist in some form.
Being able to travel WHEREVER you want to go, WHENEVER you want to go will always be superior to public transport.
@@GlitchXThat makes no sense. In many cities the ONLY way to travel WHENEVER and WHEREVER you want IS by public transport. I personally prefer to drive, but there's no way I could drive into London and find a place to park in rush hour. Where as the train is 15 mins.
@@GlitchXthing is, with good public transport, you _can_ go wherever and whenever you want to go
@@Giuliana-w1f However, and it is a big, "however", you have to have a minimum population density for that to be true. In suburbia, where ever neighborhood is bunch of dead end streets and never straight or in locations where houses sit on large tracts of land, it simply isn't feasible to implement public transportation in any sense of that phrase as we understand it today.
@@kcgunesqTrue, but part of the solution is to build better cities... Suburbia is just not great ... no matter your lifestyle
"A decade ago... In 2014" My back started hurting instantly😂
My prostate increased in size just hearing that.
You think that's bad? I still think the 1980s was 20 years ago.
@@wolfshanze5980
What got me was turning on a classic rock station, and hearing Alanis Morissette.
When I was a kid, a classic movie from 20 y/o ago was Terminator. Now a classic movie from 20 y/ago is Shrek 2...
I remember playing 64 and being ecstatic to get a Gamecube for Christmas. Now Wii is a couple years away from being retro. _🙃_
Two issues with your "boids" tangent.
(1) A fully separate, self-driving lane (that would need a physical barrier to be meaningful) adds a TON of cost just to cater to what is currently a tiny segment of the population.
(2) There actually is a set of "roads" designed to carry almost-autonomous vehicles that communicate with each other through a central system and are designed for minimal human oversight with hardly any computer code at all. It is called TRAINS!
This comment needs more upvotes 😊
@@acondor They're called likes here you redditor smooth brain
Instead of metros, lets create roads underground so we can have traffic congestion in miles long narrow tunnels with no escape. - Elon Musk
Exactly! The ONLY advantage of self driving cars over trains and buses is that you do NOT need tons of additional infrastructure to make them useful, especially in countries like America that are just way too big to walk or use a bike.
I think it is the right idea for SOME areas where trains and buses are just not feasible; all we need are better AI systems to drive them.
I don't see why they will "never" work like it says in the title.
This video is so American
I Lost it at the “okay buddy, daddy is balls deep on a Tesla option ETF….”
I made $12,000 in 3 min. You will never have more than $200 in your checking. Keep coping poor
The man playing Russian roulette with the life of his child should be prosecuted for child endangerment.
Timestamp please
@@g07denslicerwatch the video
@@g07denslicer 8:15
I had a coworker who complained constantly that the patrol car we both drove would constantly beep at him all night while he was driving it round. But it never beeped for me except occasionally on one specific section of road. Turns out he was such a terrible driver he was constantly tripping the lane deviation warning.
The fact that lane assist reduces crashes is a genuinely horrifying statistic and not talked enough about. Licenses need to be a recurring thing if this is legit.
My dad's van has lane stay and it steers me into oncoming traffic, it also blares a loud alarm for collision avoidance when I go round corners, it also randomly slams on the brakes when I'm trying to park.
It's way safer than the 80's ford I've been driving for 20 years that doesn't constantly try to give ma heart attack, drive into oncoming traffic or think every corner slightly sharper than an metropolian roundabout is an crash waiting to happen. I'm so grateful for all this progress, I can't wait for the car to automatically regulate my breathing and emotional state for me.
@@BauregardSenior87 Agreed with your opinions. ADAS is too intrusive.
I hate it. The sensation of car turning when the steering wheel is straight bothers me. My personal vehicle is too old to have it, but the Kia I drive for work has it. And some coworker turned it on. There are times when I want to drift left or right, like making a right or left turn. Where I live if you don't do it, there's a risk some impatient driver behind you will try to squeeze in the gap and get ahead of you.
@@jimmym3352 Try using the turn signal next time and you'll see that you can drift all you want...
"It can tell a mannequin from a …". IT SHOULDN'T BE HITTING A MANNEQUIN!
Also pretty unrealistic to expect humans to be able to distinguish a mannequin from a human while driving, but at least the human will recognize an obstacle as such.
@@MicroMyco I mean, we could certainly tell outside of the worst lighting conditions. But we of course wouldn't condition our avoidance on the conscious detection of the difference between a mannequin and a person. We reflexively swerve.
Also, that was a Melon Husk lie to begin with..
@@television1088 Right! It's plain stupid to trust anything Musk says. "Oh, he lied all the other times, but this time, this time it's the truth". Like a cheated spouse who chooses to keep the blindfold on
The whole it can tell it's not a child is nonesense. So if it saw a boulder in the road it would drive into it? If the mannequin was filled with concrete, it would drive into it? Drivers defending this deserve whatever fate awaits them if they can't understand that the danger is not just to the hypothetical child, but to them as well.
ok, people who make excuses that "a cardboard cutout isn't a real human" need to have their heads examined. If your car drives over a huge object in the middle of the road, THAT'S A FUCKING PROBLEM. It's not like the car can tell what the object is made of, or what is BEHIND the cardboard cutout. For all you know it's a brick wall, or something worse. What if there actually IS a real child behind the cardboard ?? The fact that the car doesn't stop at the sight of any object in front of it is already a failure of massive proportions.
Exactly. It is irrelevant what the obstacle is made of. You're not supposed to run over obstacles.
Have you EVER driven over something on the road? Idiot statement.
You can’t see if the car is in ACTUALLY in self driving mode. Nor can you see if the person driving is pressing on the accelerator. Your brain is so easily manipulated, I have to question your IQ level. If you have the guts, I would like to invite you to take a ride with me sometime. So your brain has the opportunity to make an INFORMED decision.
@@B3BandDo humans run over objects on the road? Have you driven over objects on the road? If you haven’t, you must live in some utopian area where there are NEVER objects on the road.
@@bigdougscommentary5719 I'm in my 40s and have been driving since I was 16 and I have *never* run over a child-sized object in the road. WTF are you on about?
There are already vehicles that can take you places without you having to pay attention to the road or even learning to drive. These are buses and trains and taxis.
they're insanely cheap too
before 2020 in my hometown [where buses are popular] you could drive like 300 times a day [this is not an exaguration] with an average salary
and don't forget, you pay for getting into a bus, meaning that you can just sit in a bus that drives across the entire city and be fine.
taxis are more expansive but it's not like they're much more expansive than cars [outside of italy and the us]. In my city i think, it costs about equivilent of 3h of work worth of money to move across half of my city [kind of expansive, but don't forget: if you own a car you already spent thousands of dollars just to aquire it, and then you repair it, and buy petrol, and when it's too old it doesnt feel as good as when you just bought it, taxi is always good though].
Now imagine buses and taxis being autonomous 😊
@@diidac17 for the end user i.e. the passenger this doesn’t change much, be a bus, a train or a taxi driven by a human or by a computer.
@@Dellvmnyam you forget about driver availability, driver salary, and driver shifts.
Even in Barcelona, where we have a public transport system eons ahead from the average US city system and just years ahead from the average EU ones, people prefer the subway over the bus because the bus can be slow.
But it is slow because traffic congestion may appear and buses come every 10-15 mins (on labor days, on holidays one must wait 30 mins for a bus, and in night hours buses are limited).
The subway in Barcelona comes every 2-3 mins in average (on labor days, on holidays 5-7 mins, and they do not operate 24h a day).
And you may think "Wow that is so cool!". Yeah sounds cool on paper. But because of the reasons explained, people prefer the subway over the bus (and the bus system is still heavily used). This makes the subway crowded af on rush hours or when an important event occurs in the city. Barcelona is a "small city" with a considerable density of people (I know in other cities is worse, more than worse...)
You may think: "Ok then add more trains to your subway system" yeah. But that is still a partial solution.
On the other hand, buses can get crowded too during rush hours and being slow in the city even though buses have their own lane for circulating.
Autonomous buses could help an already good public transport system. I know that for an American, a decent public transport system may seem the definitive solution, but believe me, it is not the end of the problem.
And I am talking just about the urban use case. Imagine trucks full of cargo going non stop in the future...
The problem with Tesla is that it wants autonomy relying only on what the car perceives with the cameras. Even using Lidar, relying only on what one can only percieve is what we humans do already.
@@diidac17 yep, I didn’t think about drivers’ availability. And Tesla and other electric car makers are also wrong because they are trying to solve problems of cars with cars.
Used to work for Cruise (and another AI company in SF). Yes, the cars are "driverless", but they have remote workers that help them through weird situations. I don't really get how companies can claim level 4 self-driving when they do all their janky driving behaviors and also use humans.
Ah so the typical tech fluff…fully automated…if you don’t consider wage slaves behind an API to be human.
Reminds me of that news story I saw around that Echo and Google Assistant have a lot of "operators" that are there for when the petition is not understood by the system... and it was most of the time.
So this AI thing is just "let's hide workers under the tech" scam.
They even have more employees per "Self-Driving" Car than... taxi-cab companies.
@@LeflairZone as long as they remove the awkwardness of interacting with another human being people will have no problem with it (not saying that's a good thing)
It was more a comment about how unprofitable it is as a business when it requires more "tech" workers than cab drivers to operate, nevermind the specialized hardware @@valdir7426
It kills me when the car slows down and then, after some thought, proceeds to plow under the child.
"Damn kid had too slow reflexes. That's Darwin."
A child will die if hit by a car at 20 mph ... but if the kid is running away at 3 mph - when hit by the same car - the aggregate difference is that the kid will survive. ... " so if you are going to hit a kid - make sure they are running away - as it will cause LESS damage to the kid " ( Jimmy Carr - UK Comedian )
I agree, perhaps the machine is giving the human a chance to prove it's worth and it failed, but we keep looking at it from the human perspective...
I think its more like it saw the dummy, then stopped, but it is now obscured. So eventually it goes because it no longer sees it. It will be interesting if the new version does better at that or if it is a training issue they can fix with more training videos.
average New York driver 🤣
(yes I'm joking)
Autopilot was not engaged. You can see it because the steering wheel is gray on the screen. It is blue when AP is active. This guy did that on purpose lol
As a person with low vision who can't drive, I've hoped self-driving cars might one day give me the same freedom of mobility as actually being able to drive. A better scenario would be to just make public transit robust enough that no one would need/want a car outside of very specialized scenarios. (Yeah, I know: lol.)
In certain cities and locations, this is already the case. It’d be nice if it were much more common
@@threepe0 I'm in this situation where I need a car for specific things (tour; transporting heavy stuff) but most of the time it's collecting dust on a parking space. will probably switch to renting when this one is on its last breath.
It’s not really a joke; there are some places with great public transit where most people rarely need to drive.
Welcome to europe.
What would be super awesome is if there were public transit “trains” that consisted of independent cabins/cars that linked together for mutual distance travel but could also uncouple and take people the last leg of their journey to work/home since that would provide the privacy/space/convenience that people who drive their own cars crave or need.
I remember watching a commercial a few years ago... You could see a person reading a magazine in a moving vehicle with a voice over saying: "one day you will travel without having to look at the road, one day you will be able to go 200 mph in silence and comfort"... The the camera zoomed out to reveal the person was sitting in a high speed train with the voice over saying: "that day is today!"
Self driving car where you have to be in the driver's seat at all times ready to intervene at any given moment? Greatest thing since sliced bread if you still had to pry the pieces of bread apart with a knife.
Thats’s like most pre-sliced bagels
its good because it keeps you EXTRA alert. genius design
That's actually what I do, because I freeze my sliced bread and defrost slices as I need.
That's not the end state bubba. It ain't rocket science, you suck at driving, just accept it.
It's obviously a step in the process...
The people in the comments here are so short sighted it's amazing.
And this video is aging like milk already, Tesla's FSD is learning at an exponential rate at the moment
Man, if only we had some sort of thing where there's like one person up at the front where the engine is. Maybe we could call them the "Engineer" , and then everyone else can just live, and sleep in the cars while they're moved around. Wait a minute..
Fucking exactly. The best form of transport, invented before the car and then ignored to make evil companies rich.
I am SO glad it only took me a little amount of scrolling to find a 'just use trains bro' comment. Why the fuck are we trying to automate cars when automating trains is 100, if not 1000 times easier?! A train can't exactly 'switch lanes' at will or hell, do anything. All it needs to know is the speed of the section of track it is driving on, and the status of the next signal. These can all be easily fed to the train.
@@PinataOblongata LOL it wasnt ignored. Nobody used them once cars were a thing. Because surprise - the train isnt flexible like a car.
@@roadtrain_ Because A) passenger trains dont go where you need them, when you need them, unless you reschedule your whole life around them. And B) safety issues. One radio fails and you have a 100 million ton runaway on your hands.
@Nick-ue7iw A) this is because public transit is chronically underfunded. Giving them more money to fix their shit would solve this. B ) That's just not fucking true trains are equipped with SEVERAL systems to ensure a runaway can't happen including dead man's switches and ATC. Trains are safer than self driving cars will ever be.
4:19 "Make big bucks letting your Tesla work as a robotaxi!"...until it rolls back into your driveway one Saturday morning full of puke, piss, spilled beer, cigarette burns and Lord only knows what else!
And covered in blood from accidents the manufacturer will deny liability for, while insurance denies your claim because you weren't in the vehicle, & yet you're liable as the registered "owner" of the car you're denied open access to the logs & software modules of.
@@prophetzarquon1922 That too!
Since when have taxi drivers been known for driving safely????? How do you know the man in that car has your best interests in mind?
@@davidlones365 Huh? What exactly does your reply have to do with what is being discussed here??
... and that's if you're lucky.
The worse issue than "detect a stop sign in the rain" is all the stuff that's intermittently on roads, much of which is not supposed to be there but also outside of human control. Not just pedestrians, but wildlife (esp. deer), downed trees or branches, downed *power lines*, other debris, road construction, etc. Cars and road signs are relatively easy to spot (which makes failure of a FSD system to do so an embarrassment), all that other stuff is gonna get much harder
I went to Philly for my cousin's wedding and rented a car that (surprise) had lane assist. On the drive from Philly to Atlantic City I encountered toll booths (where 2-3 lanes suddenly became 7) unpainted lanes, and very narrow roads. The lane assist fought me, almost yeeted me into another car, and was a general pain in the butt. I didn't notice it on wider, well-maintained roads because presumably the car had a better idea of where the lane actually was and wasn't having a panic attack.
These systems clearly rely on very specific information and break down the nano-second that information isn't available.
My experience traveling in Waymo vehicles indicates that your opinion of them may be incorrect.
weve had lane assist in various cars freak out on FRESHY repaved and painted freeways! we need viable alternatives to cars not more self driving accidents waiting to happen
Like you would think people do. Quite a few people do get confused and that type of situation so I have accidents in those areas. Now I'm not going to try and compare present AI to a person but AI is evolving much faster than your average person is.
@@wadap0 he wasnt in a waymo vehicle though, it should be obvious that those waymo cars are absolutely LOADED with cameras and sensors that normal consumer vehicles do not have, its no wonder their capabilities are not the same.
@@Joegreen-r1i I don't care, I'm not going to willingly give control of a 2ton hunk of metal to an AI.
I about died of laughter when the Tesla lightly bumped the dog and dog walker over and then was like GTFO of the way, i gotta go lolol
finally an AI that understands me
And now link a bunch of autonomous vehicles together to save on fuel...
Oh and now that the paths they travel are more predictable, maybe build some overhead power lines there to allow for smaller batteries...
And we might as well also just put them on metal rails with metal wheels to lower friction and prevent the wheels from wearing out...
if we do that, we could call the new roads they ride on "rail" roads. the future is here!
I lived in Boston as a poor college student. It had a reasonable subway system, commuter trains, and buses that got me to where I needed to go. And I absolutely loved it when I finally got a car.
@@chrimony because you live in america. I lived in Metropolitan area in western europe when I was younger and was everywhere in 5 minutes basically. Now I live in "the suburbs" for you yankees and have to go by car and everything takes ages longer
You mean that one day I might be able to travel the entire length of the Australian continent from Adelaide to Darwin without driving myself and risking kangaroo or Wolf Creek fatality?
What an age! What next? Private companies will finally work out how to land on the moon?
@@chrimonythat's because your country has no national identity and you might get murdered by a random pushing you on the metro rail.
I finished my free month of FSD on my Tesla Model 3 and learned babysitting a computer is not my idea of fun. I enjoy driving cars and motorcycles. I hope completely autonomous vehicles are perfected in the future but there is a long way to go.
that's how I felt. I would love to try it again in 6 months and see if there is a noticeable leap, but for where I live it was no where near "take a nap" or "watch a movie" stage. I even to upgraded on my last couple days and I didn't notice a difference even though ppl were crowing about it on social media. fabulous car but FSD needs to exponentially start improving or its going to be a long long time.
I also enjoy driving over a mountain or just taking a tour. Maybe in a future where we are so surrounded by laws and sensors monitor everything we do, speed, traffic, road conditions, distance to the front car etc.
Lol sucker😂😂😂😂😂😂 when i see a tesla driver on the road the first thing i think is " im staying away from this git because they obviously got poor judgement buying a tesla"
I hope it dosent , you shouldn't get to pay your way out of responsibility, you shouldn't be able to pay your way out of dealing with traffic , we all have to deal with wasting time in traffic , just like death and taxes , it's a unified human condition
Don't want to drive? Hire a taxi like the rest of us or get over it
@@gsogymrat lol sucker😂😂😂😂😂😂
My favourite part was the claim about how the car can tell the difference between a real child and fake one... You know, because I make a habit of running over trash cans and traffic cones in my car every day. Haha... This shit is truly scary. Cheers!
I don't care about cars.
That father (and Tesla investor, video segment at 7:47 ) who forced his child to take part in an unauthorized experiment on humans ... should get a visit from CPS.
Anyways, I wish you fun with your trash can hobby, ST!:)
P.S.: Garbage trucks have special rights in daily road traffic by the law, such as driving against the direction of travel on one-way streets or, for example, briefly driving or stopping on the other side of the road, that the men or women can do their business effectively. So these situations are “rare” exceptions. Some of the average driver alone can't handle such situations as we see in practice, but Teslas and other "would-be smart" vehicles pose a mortal danger to garbage collectors. There is NO effective detection for blue or yellow warning lights. Just think about your fellow drivers, those sleepyheads that regularly overlook emergency services and don't make room for them. This failure is powered by a massive parallel computer (our brain) that our technology will never be able to reach. Alone because of that self driving vehicles mostly ignore emergency services (under a 100% working system, there is no choice!), it shouldn't even a question that those BETA TESTS have to be banned from our streets. They actually end(UA-cam censors the k-word with the following "ill") more people by secondary dangers than by direct impact.
Have a good one! (cone), hehehe
and like, even if it could actually tell the difference it would only need to get it wrong once to cause a tragedy.
it is funny but its also really important to know the difference when choices have to be made to minimize bad outcomes, for instance in an emergency should a car run over a child or hit a tree if its unable to stop in time but can still steer? knowing that the child is actually something else, something less important in its priority list is a lot more impactfull.
There is a very simple way to make self driving cars reliable quickly. Simply transfer the liability for the actions of a car in self-drive mode to the manufacturer, not the owner.
Sure, manufacturers would rush to disable self-driving, but they would also rush to improve their self-driving algorithms because they clearly want to sell the feature.
Unfortunately I think precedent was set by aviation that the burden is on the owner/operator.
@@12pentaborane Even without that precedent, I would fully believe companies would sooner spend their money on lobbying against making them liable, as opposed to quietly mumbling about it and putting that money toward improving the feature.
@@12pentaborane Aviation hardly even compares to on-road driving. For a human, flying is more difficult, but for an AI, flight is much closer to the closed systems that AIs are so good at. You don't have to fully stop and accelerate your aircraft every few minutes, you don't have to navigate around unpredictable objects, you don't have other aircraft going past you so close their wings could almost touch.
Also, air traffic is extremely heavily regulated and therefore much "cleaner" to program around.
On the other hand, any moron could walk into the middle of the road at any time, anywhere.
Even in a legal context, such large differences could be sufficient to warrant a change in legal responsibility if someone is bold enough to claim that THIS vehicle CAN navigate the 1000x complexity increase of on-road driving.
There's a reason why autopilots are only used for the simplest portions of the flight.
@@jabloko992 As a private pilot for 32 years, I can tell you that flying a private plane is BY FAR safer and easier than driving a car in traffic, and 100 times safer and easier than riding a motorcycle in traffic (I do both) I have NEVER used any kind of auto pilot. On the very first day of flight school, it was made clear that the primary responsibility of the pilot was to CONTROL THE AIRCRAFT.
This is why full self driving will become illegal before its implemented.
Insurance companies will never voluntarily accept having huge corporations as opponents rather than Joe Shmoe.
This is useless technology that solves nothing anyway
its funny they say it can tell it's not a real child, because there's still something there and you shouldn't drive into it
I get pissed when I catch someone trying to prank me. Why should I expect a car to be any less spiteful?
HAL voice: I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you dunk on me like that. *Locks break pedal*
The object falls over, and is therefore no longer seen by the camera, which then proceeds to drive as if it's not there. It should absolutely turn off self-driving when that happens. Way back in the beginning of TACC, there were many cars that needed to have their gas pedal pressed to resume driving if they came to a complete stop for more than a couple seconds, because it couldn't reliably tell if someone had walked in front of you.
This was the point I wanted to make. The only time you wouldn't worry about an obstacle on the road if it was something like an empty plastic bag blowing across the road.
@@Caffin8tor My uncle, when young, used to put paper bags in the road with cinderblocks in them, just for people who figured they'd run over an empty paper bag. (He was a dick in many ways.)
Fun fact, I rented a subcompact car for a work-related trip and was given a Kia Carnival because it was the only vehicle on the lot and our contract stipulates certain class upgrades. It was the first vehicle I drove that had lane keeping that actually worked worth a damn, as some of the other ones I've driven (even late models) still did the ping pong. It was also, surprisingly, the only minivan I've ever gotten wheelspin in.
The idea with the boids does in the end hit the same limitations though. Traffic doesn't take place in a vacuum. One might have mechanical failure and stop abruptly, a child may run onto the street, or a cyclist. You cannot isolate whole traffic lanes to a point where they are completely undisturbed by any possible occurence. Do you want to build tunnels for them?
The problem with self driving cars is that there is an almost infinite amount of variables to process.
It's a good point. And humans have been evolving the sensors and object recognition "software" to correctly deal with that infinite possible variety of objects, for millions of years. Computers have only been working on that problem for, what, almost two decades? It's not unreasonable to think it will take a lot longer till they get good at it.
I mean, at that point I guess you might as well put the whole thing on rails and have larger, longer vehicles instead of a big group of them.
Why is this hard for you? Something causes a car to stop, all the other cars stop until the obstruction is cleared... they can react much faster than a human driver and prevent injury.
Unless we could figure out how to leverage actual birds brains, where they do that kind of thing day in and day out, and other amazing things like flying through chain-link fences and so on. There’s a functionality there we just don’t know how to tap it maybe what we need to do is figure out how to directly tap a bird brain. Crazy talk I know, but I’m a free thinker.
Not as many variables as the human body using blood flow to nourish the body. If the unconscious systems can manage that I’m sure intelligent people can manage to lie for money
I drive my brother-in-law's FSD Tesla from time to time and i think it's safer but for the opposite reasons you'd expect. The fact that it can do ANYTHING at any time means I'm paying so much more attention than i am on a normal drive.
One video had a driver trying out the self-driving system and said that it was more mentally exhausting using it than driving normally because when driving normally you aren't worried about your arms suddenly deciding you should drive into a parked car or your foot deciding on its own to hit the brakes.
I don't care if the child is real or fake I don't want my car ploughing into objects in the road.
Yeah they had a foot on the accelerator for that one.
We need faster children.
With that hat, we know you make terrible life decisions.
you fool, optimus will replace those weak flesh bag children with weak robot children..........that have limited warranties
@@PaleBlueDotCitizen Sad that so many Tesla owners and drivers tell matching lies about the work of Perfect Genius Messiah Elon Musk 😢
Hey Benn, I work in the industry and agree with pretty much everything you're saying. One thing though - while the section on boids is neat, I don't think you have stumbled upon the solution to our problems. Boids are a solution in the domain of Motion Planning (i.e. algorithms to get around in a known environment, like the circle in the animation). Motion Planning is only part of the tech stack of an autonomous vehicle and I would argue it is the easy part, or at least it's the part that has many working solutions (boids for example, but do a quick search and you will find 1000's of papers with great algorithms with proven robustness).
The other big part of the stack is Perception or State Estimation (figuring out what my surroundings are and where I am positioned within them). This area has WAY more problems, and even if we put cars on closed, autonomous-only roads, the problems will exist - I assume pedestrians will still want to cross those roads so the car better be able to perceive the pedestrian properly.
I think his point here was that something like Boids works well because the system is simplified to play to the strengths of the algorithms, hence the suggestion of a self driving dedicated lane. If the future of driving is automation, then tailor the environment to assist in the automation, rather than expecting self driving algorithms to understand the roads in the ways a human does.
I think the issue with this is that its impossible to prevent the real world from impinging upon the simplified environment of a self driving lane. Try as you might a deer or child might leap into one, injecting a bunch of chaos into the simplified system, requiring something more like a human brain to make decisions rather than a straightforward algorithm.
As a dude who has been in bands for 30+ years the part about driving 10-12 hours for a gig and ending up in a ditch hit home. We have a rule in our van 2 people stay awake at all times, DD is called at the dinner so everyone knows who is driving at night. I have to many friend who I have lost in van wrecks.
Having a self driving car that could drive all night is such a dream... as someone who toured before the internet was a big thing it will be as huge as Google Maps (if you toured before online Maps you know)
@@christophervan9634 i liked how it used to be a requirement for someone to know how to read a map to be able to tour. feel like the intelligence bar has been lowered for bands (if you deal with bands today, then you know).
That is one hell of an argument for revolutionizing the transportation of people the cheap and reliable way: public traffic.
Hillbilly Hick may need a car to the nearest station, but from there ...
@@madshorn5826 bands aint touring via city trolley. keep dreaming
@@madshorn5826 I agree with you for people that travel with only their person/minimal luggage, but I don't feel like the comment by @christophervan9634 is a good argument for it. Bands are going to be taking a lot of stuff with them. No matter how reliable and robust the theoretical public transit system will be, taking that much gear around would be much easier and doable with a personal vehicle. With the system you envision, the band would probably have to load/unload their gear multiple times when changing public transit vehicles. There would likely be much less hassle driving up to the music venue directly and only offloading/loading gear there.
Small nitpick: Mercedes offers stage 3 limited to "major freeways in California and parts of Nevada". Unlike Tesla, they also agreed to be on the hook for any damages their cars cause while self-driving. Admittedly it's extremely limited, but not totally nonexistent in the US. They call it "DRIVE PILOT".
The technology they are using is a. a dead end b. theres no update path c. Its only working in optimal condition and needs a car that is driving in front of you… i mean how autonomous can it be if there literally must be a human driving in front
@@SeeNAVMthey don't need it in a technical sense, they need it because any self driving car that causes 1 accident will blow up in the media and everywhere while 90 year old half blind half braindeads are free to do whatever.
That guy who volunteered his child to stand in front of a charging car will regret it.
When he's in an old folks home don't be surprised when his child volunteers him to
be a participant in medical experiments.
Or more likely ignore and neglect them when they’re old.
You put my life on the line to protect your car’s reputation.
Why should I care more about your life ?
The "stages" of autonomy isn't a good way to measure what level a car is at. It should be something like accidents per million miles vs an average for human drivers. If the first number is at or below the second then the car has objectively reached full self driving.
I just took a highly automated vehicle operating in a dedicated right of way last night, didn't even touch the steering wheel or look out the window. In fact I spent some of the time taking a dump. It's called metrolink.
I think the reality of fully autonomous vehicles is that they either need to be on rails, or not at all. I would love to see a future where the same amount of vehicles we're driving today can be driven autonomously, however the sheer amount of infrastructure and cooperation involved to make this happen would be absurd. I would love for someone to counter this argument I have, but so far no one has.
@@flamegod7 TBH, most of the reason why these vehicles are going to take so many more decades is that they are having to integrate with human drivers and pedestrians. They could make the process a lot easier by doing things such as putting up walls along the roads, switching from lane markers to center of lane lines and changing the paint to encode information to help the cars move through the city. Then just have most of the cars load themselves onto trains for city to city travel.
It's still a big challenge, but doing things like that would likely move the timetables up consistently as that would be a much simpler environment for the cars to need to navigate.
@@flamegod7 The subway in my city had been wired for unmanned operation for at least forty years. It's very simple... on paper. Accelerate, decelerate, brake at stop marker, open doors for twenty seconds, accelerate again. In real life, trains still need human operators to manage the human stampede trying to get inside in the said twenty seconds...
@@flamegod7 Never seen a train crash but heard one 5 miles away.
@@flamegod7all we need is a more intelligent and capable population. Let’s keep bringing in Mexican drug dealers they can give our engineers coke and we’ll get it done.
Public transit will be more important than self-driving cars in the foreseeable future, and it's old tried-and-true tech. Ideally, city centers would be car free, and outside the city you don't need fancy self-driving to solve non-existent traffic. Though, it wouldn't surprise me if we'll see some car pool coop type of thing to be the norm for self-driving vehicles once those reach level 4 or 5.
I've been trying to make this in Cities Skylines 2 since it came out and haven't gotten it to work yet. 😅
public transit that departs the station so frequently that you don't have to look at a schedule for most stops, electrified trains, pedestrianized streets, lot's of bike lanes, multi modal transportation infrastructure.. but america is totally car brained.
@@BennJordansuuurely stream/show us your attempts? Or at least pics of the city?
@@BennJordan
I've grown up in Switzerland, where public transport is quite advanced. I pay about 240$ a month for unlimited travel on any bus,tram,train,boat,cable car, ...
Here is the list of things I can do without a car, and without inconvenience:
- commute to work. I get to sit in a train for 40 minutes with my computer and wifi. I decided to live in another smaller city because I like it there.
- go hiking/climbing/skiing during weekends (because we have public transport to most of the Alps)
- go out / to the restaurant / cinema / ... On the weekend I have night trains and night buses
- make concerts all over the country. I play the violin and I sing, I have the advantage of not needing to carry a lot of gear
- just go visit any of the nice places in the country
Here are the list of things I can't do without a car without inconvenience:
- visit my parents that live in a very rural place (I can, but no public transport on the weekend. There are about 50 people that live there. )
- some very specific hikes
My point is, even though Switzerland is quite small, you don't need crazy high densities for public transport to work. Almost any place with more than 1000 people will have regular (every 30 minutes) all day service. Every city with more than 20'000 peoples will have night buses on the weekends for people going out.
People in Switzerland own cars not because it is always the most convenient way of transport, but more because people have a lot of money and like to buy nice things. I know plenty of people who a car, but regularly use public transport because of the convenience of it.
I still believe that autonomous driving is the future, but the US has a very car-centric mindset, and you tend to see the solution to transportation problem through this lens (your last section on boids illustrates this). Cars will always be needed in truly rural areas, but there are many last mile solutions other than cars.
Just imagine if large businesses in the cities ran their own shuttles for employees - that alone would make a huge dent in traffic volume!
"It can tell the difference between real and fake children"... I don't care if it can tell the difference. Don't hit it. Don't hit things on the road! Stop!
If the place that I live allows full self driving cars I will literally start a campaign to put things on the road that look like a "fake rock" but are in fact a car immobilising device. I will do this to save lives.
@@jamesrowlands8971 That makes no sense, if the rock looks fake then anyone would hit it.
@@jamesrowlands8971
@@supernus8684you would hit a “fake rock?” I wouldn’t hit a fake anything bc I prefer to not hit anything while I’m driving real or fake.
@@supernus8684 yeah, wtf guy. Stop driving for all of our sake.
I've used FSD on about 15,000 miles of road trips and never had any real issue. I did one segment of 400 miles where in my ICE I would have arrived slightly frazzled. In my Tesla I arrived feeling pretty refreshed. That is why I love FSD. There is clearly a LOT more to do until it is true FSD but every day it creeps closer and closer. It most definitely will happen, that much is just obvious.
I think the problem is that, at the end of the day, if you're trying to make dedicated lanes just for "self driving" vehicles, you've essentially built a Personal Rapid Transit system, except less efficient (and PRT systems are oft criticized for their lack of efficiency).
You're still going to have traffic because capacity limits are a thing, and unless you use some grade separation you're still going to deal with drivers in other vehicles making mistakes and pedestrians, et al.
Case in point: When have you not seen some jerk cross the double/triple yellow and swerve in and out of the carpool/commuter lanes. You can't stop assholes. God put them on Earth to keep things lively. If they make a self-driving-only lane, some pinhead doing 90mph will swerve into it and brake check the RoboCars and we'll see the most epic pile up in the history of mankind.
Yes, he spent a lot of time on his nonsense idea. It makes you wonder how much else was nonsense. But you know, triangles on a screen are exactly like cars! Autonomy solved!!!
Well that was a dumb remark@@dirkbester9050
I like the idea of separate lanes for autonomous vehicles. I can imagine cruising LA to PHX or LAS at 120+ mph because it's safe to do so, as all the cars are synced to travel at the same speed. That might work in the desert, but the big problem I see is real estate for these lanes in cities and suburbia. Good luck with that.
"Maybe they could have a lane specifically for the self driving cars so you could avoid human error."
Sounding suspiciously like a train at that point.
Not to pick on you or anything, but when was the last time you pulled your train out of your driveway? Trains are a solution to an entirely different problem than the one being discussed.
@@Tubeytime I wouldn't need a driveway if my city suburb had trams, light rail, and rail.
@@SALEENS7GTR5 But where would you park your car for when you want to go out of your city?
@@SALEENS7GTR5 That's fine if you want to live in a city, surrounded by people all the time. Not everyone wants your lifestyle though. I want peace and quiet, therefore I need personal transport.
@@Tubeytimethats cool but don‘t bring your noisy and big personal metal box into the city. I don‘t appreciate it at all, about as much as you would appreciate a highway going through your backyard.
Different modes of transportation for different sets of problems and large park+ride system so people can switch from one to the other.
I like this idea of segregated self-driving lanes. Can I suggest some improvements:
Instead of rubber tyres on a tarmac surface, have a pair of steel guiding rods on the ground that control the direction the vehicles take, and have steel wheels with a guiding protrusion on the inside edge. This will reduce rolling resistance and ensure that the vehicle absolutely follows the correct lane route.
Instead of batteries, have a power cable above head-height which the vehicles can pick up power from, with the steel guiding rods doing double-duty as the ground return path for electricity.
Instead of lots of small indpendent vehicles, chain them together in a snake-like fashion into big long vehicles.
Have pre-defined entry/exit points on the network where people can wait on a raised surface next to the running lane for the next vehicle to arrive.
Like seriously. The “future” he suggests at the end of his video is so insanely convoluted. It is crazy how car centric we’ve become that it’s hard to even imagine a different vehicle and system. I was one of them at one point tbh.
having to create steel guiding rods and not to mention power cables overhead? on literally every road in the united states? even all the governments of all the countries on earth dont have enough money to make that happen.
@@anti-tryhard He's being sarcastic and saying that we should just put more investment into public transport instead of some batshit crazy self driving car system
@@asparagus_syndrome I know and i'm being sarcastic by playing into his idea
I still think that the best approach is to just invest in high quality public transports. It s cheaper, doesn t need new tech, it s way safer and it s electric without the need for batteries. Once you take 80% of the drivers out of the road, does that still have a need to drive will be way more safer without AI or anything of that sort. We can still have self autonomous driving cars (one day) but it s should be a low priority solution
I'm gonna wait until they get a spell checker that works before I start thinking about self driving cars.
Every year the spell checker loses more words it's 100% 1984.
Or an ai that can do closed captioning! The people that have to rely on closed captioning must think we're crazy talking the way we do!
@@steveolson69 Exists, look at Whisper. It's just cheaper to not bother running something that takes a few resources.
I'm gonna wait until UA-cam stops recommending videos about topics I've never heard of from channels with 3 subscribers.
@@steveolson69 AI can now do closed captioning almost as well as humans - for free, much faster
If you drive youself into the grand canyon, the most important thing is to have it on camera.
At the end of the day a car lane has a max capacity of about 1500 and 2400 passenger cars/hour. Doesn't matter if they drive fast, slow, are bumper to bumper or far apart. This is the physical limit. For comparison, a bike lane has a limit of 10.000 passengers/hour. Bus lanes and tramways have higher capacities. So with all this self driving development you're spending tons of money and resources on the least efficient transport system. Moreover trams and buses are more easily to make self-driving since they stick to predictable routes. Even more easy if they have their dedicated lane.
People dont like public transport when given a choice. So you have to force its use. And to that i say... gl.
@@RasakBloodI like public transport. Why would I want to waste time focusing on the road
@@RasakBlood Well I like trains and travelling on them. I don't even have a driver's license, even though I have the means and capabilities to do so. Why go through the effort of getting a license or expense of owning a car when a bike, bus and train do the same job?
@RasakBlood I think you mean Americans hate public transit. (Funny how it's considered freedom to have to drive yourself around). A lot of other countries appreciate their value.
@@RasakBlood Weird how this is never actually the case in the real world, whenever new public transport systems are built they always quickly fill up and become enormously popular.
watching this in the backseat of a WAYMO thats currently driving me around san francisco with nobody in the driver's seat.
The Tesla thought about it for a second and then said "I don't like this child!"
More like it said, in the Black Knight's voice "Just a traffic cone!"
If it was in my neighborhood I'd have to agree. 🙃
This clown has no clue, some half million cars are *already today* driving ppl around.
@@Mrbfgray oh wow, 500 thousand in a country with a population of 330+ million, and those cars are plagued with customer complaints and investigations from various state AND federal DoTs and DPSs, how amazing
@@fakename287 Are you familiar with any of those "investigations"? Hint: they are trivial. Consumer Reports recently rated cost of owning cars and despite them being supported by The Ford Foundation, Tesla came out on top, about $4k over 10 yrs. Toyota was next, no surprise.
There is no higher customer satisfaction, by a mile, than Tesla. So YEAH, Elon BAaaad, out of lockstep with the one true narrative. Propaganda works!
I was a truck driver for a year. The safety features could be terrifying and more dangerous. A truck I was driving slammed on the brakes going 65 mph with cars behind and next to me because it thought a crack was a reason to stop. I could have jacknifed into someone. Another time it died under an overpass because it thought there was a low bridge there it couldn't go under... so it was safer to be stopped in 55mph traffic because there was an imaginary low brige there. Tthe safety department would just blame the driver with the claim computers don't make errors humans do. Luckily I was never in an accident but the safety features sure tried to get me into one.
So the brakes slammed on with cars going 65 mph behind you and there was no accident? Okay. How far behind you were those cars? A mile?
@@gwarlow I always drive far from the bumpers of other people but cars can stop on a dime trucks slamming on brakes still take a few football fields to stop.... the cars probably just had to slow down gently behind me but hitting the braked is very dangerous in a truck because the load can shift the trailer is dangerous especially if it were to swing into a lane next to me. People in cars are at a lot of danger around trucks, slamming on brakes is never a good thing.
@@mysurfing3550 yeah that's fair, guessing it depends on what the truck is carrying too?
Computers may not make errors humans do, but on the other hand, humans don't make errors computers do. My "driver assist" consistently mistakes pedestrians on the sidewalk for pedestrians in the street. I get a lovely flashing, startling red alert every time.
I have the same problem you had. Sometimes it'll track a car that's gotten off at an exit and lock the brakes on the interstate when there's nothing in front of me. So why is this a problem?
Understand for a car, standing on the brakes fixes everything. But when you're manuvering a 40 ton semi hauling hazmat tanker, it's often the worst thing you can do.
“Segregate the self driving cars to a separate lane”, and create new control mechanisms and communication in these lanes in order to not rely on human errors, and have it be a public system managed by the Department of Transportation?
Maybe you might as well link up these self driving cars into chains, since most people are going the same way anyway on these lanes, and since you’re not reliant on many drivers then you could fill up a lot more passengers in the cars, and have large hubs along these lanes that people can take a bus or something to i.. wait a minute… why do I feel like this already exists?
Try to not recreate trains take 3 let's go!
" Oh, that's my turn! Too bad I'm chained to the car in front and back of me. Oh Well! "
@@Awaken_To_0Segrehates means no "turning" into the common car road
Ironically, the worst drivers I've encountered in the last week were people who rely on the features you begin to list at 13:20 to drive while they focus on other things - like looking down from the road to text with both hands, or straight up sleep. I don't feel any safer knowing that shit like FSD and lane assist is enabling people who shouldn't be on the road.
your dream you described at the end sounds like autonomous trains
I am continually surprised something is able to be named and sold as "full self driving" when you can't take your hands off the wheel or eyes off the road when you drive it.
thats why its called full self driving *beta*
it's 'in progress' self driving
@@anti-tryhardthe word beta there is being massively abused. a beta is a project which might not be in its final form but effectively has all of the main features.
Calling this "self-driving beta" is like calling the Wright Flyer the prototype for the F-22. This is not beta. this software is one step on a ladder of dozens of other steps that could, in theory, result in self-driving. In short, as is frequently the case, it's just deceptive marketing.
@@Laotzu.Goldbug It's really not, you can look up Tesla FSD V12.3 and half of the time it's actually safer than the people driving around it. of course it's going to end up in the wrong lane every once in a while, maybe drive a bit too slow here and there, but its not like it barely misses a pedestrian every 5 minutes. These are small mistakes, and if they are fixed (which they will) we'll have a self-driving car safer than 90% of human drivers.
Can we go after Red Delicious apples too please
@@freshtapcoke Red Delicious used to be worth of its name, but people started to breed trees to produce more good-looking fruits, which ruined taste.
I felt the whole, "post on our discord or forums" part. Video games have done that for years to reduce complaints and let their toxic fanbase deal with people who have issues in the game. Depending on the community you might get an answer sandwiched between insults and trolls, and if it doesn't bug you, then more power to you, but it is definitely a system to reduce valid complaints, and manipulate people and outsourcing customer service cost.
and then there's developers that move their primary method of communication to a discord they control so that they can filter out all the negative discourse and act like their game has no issues.
well said.
there's no searchability of discord too, so people just ask the same questions.
if its on reddit atleast u can see similar posts
Great video Ben! I live in an EU country where we don't generally own/need cars, so I just rent a car for long family trips in the summer and winter. I wish more manufacturers heard this - I always rent out a Tesla (no fsd). Not because it is the best, nor cheapest - but because it is the most predictable. Every Tesla has roughly the same level of driver assist, which is as you say super useful for these long trips, removing the need for the lottery of choosing a vehicle every single time and taking half a day to get used to its quirks. Get a Volvo or a Mercedes or a Peugeot or a Nissan, and you might get all or none of those features, and they, may work slightly differently. I wish there was a standardised way for companies to communicate these capabilities. You don't rent a car and wonder if it will have safety buckles or breaks, so why are lane centering, tempomat, assist not standard.
In which country do you live? I am very curious to hear about the european country where people "generally" don't own or need cars.
22:55 "Segregate human drivers and ... Autonomous vehicles ... Tightly networked with other vehicles ..."
I feel like we can just do this with trains.
All for the low low price of adding a massive infrastructure independently to every one of hundreds of major cities in the US as part of a culture many Americans don't prefer.
The best solutions aren't always the most pragmatic.
@estD16 cars also require a massive infrastructure. Supercharger stations cost anywhere from $60,000 to $350,000 a piece. And that's charging alone. In order to transition to EV, there will be an investment in the BILLIONS in the US in EV charging. Adding a single lane on a freeway can also cost BILLIONS. Not to mention the cost of parking, gas infrastructure, car maintenance services, DMV, and the list goes on.
@@MrSlowestD16Some of us would love more public transportation and would love at least the option.
@@sevargas1 Oh of course. It's just hard to do in the US because governments, both large and small, are absolutely terrible at spending money. They can't help themselves to not taking it and making themselves and their friends rich with it with all sorts of middle men and approval committees and everything else. So the same stuff isn't do-able in the US as other countries when it comes to spinning up new infrastructure.
@@alvadagansta Yeah but it's easier to phase into what we already have. Uses the same roads and driveways and what-not. People can also charge at home. I'm not saying it's perfect, or you're wrong, or anything else - and supercharger stations in particular have many issues (that cost estimate you gave btw, in terms of a commercial project is absurdly cheap, they'd be thrilled if they could put up a station for that much). Just saying that it builds on what we have already, where-as trains do not (at least local trains do not).
Okay, Im just 9 minutes in, but as an actual dad, the "dad" putting his kid in front of a self driving vehicle to do a collision avoidance test is bloody infuriating to me.
Nobody cares.
@@spankyjeffro5320 found elon musk toe-licker
The father (Tad Park) should have been arrested for child endangerment. He literally risked his child's life so he could put out a Tesla hype video and see a profit on his investments. He should have been invested by child protective services upon posting evidence that he values his financial portfolio over his own child's immediate safety. If someone staked their child's life at the casino, we'd put them in prison. What he did was exactly the same.
@@spankyjeffro5320yes we do, “spanky”
Especially since it was an unnecessary test. Use a realistic mannequin instead, the car should not hit something that even slightly resembles a person. Or any obstacle for that matter.
Regarding the use of Lidar and a few other sensors you mentioned:
I used to work as a mechanical engineer on an autonomous Robotics project (Roxo FedEx same day robot) which has since been canceled. I've seen firsthand the readings the robots get from lidar, short range radar, long range radar, normal cameras, and depth sensing cameras (Intel Realsense). The bots originally had ultrasonic sensors but they were removed in favor of radar which is a lot better and can deal with inclement weather much better than cameras or lidar, though Tesla also ditched radar for no good reason from their cars. The lidar systems we used were probably $10000 each by themselves for a really good 360 spinning lidar system with a very long range (I think it was like 30 meters). The short range radar could cover a nearly 180 degree sweep and tell where an object was and how far it was up to about 9 meters and would make a 2d point loud within that vision cone. It would 3asily spot something the size of a child and those sensors were not that expensive either, though implementing them is a bit complicated as the surface they looking through can cause reflections and putting them near metal causes problems and a host of other issues.
Long story short the delivery robot project still was years away from being safe to move robots at 15mph around pedestrians on the sidewalk at night or during the rain, let alone a car on the road at several times that speed with shittier or no sensors besides cameras. Musk has no fucking idea what he is doing.
Is 30m "really long range" for lidars? that's less than the stopping distance at 50km/hr on a dry road
Also, what level of granularity can he see at this range? Can he see/detect a bird sized object? Rabbit sized object? Dog sized object? Deer? Human? Motorcycle? or just car/automobile and above level??? @@RoamingAdhocrat
My understanding was that Musk’s reasoning for avoiding lidar/radar was to prove that it could all be done with cameras only more so than it was to cut costs. Is that not the case?
@@evanwilliamson8338 - by extension, saving money at scale by making cars with barely beyond the minimum required hardware, which means better prices for replacing EVERY car with a robotaxi whenever the system is actually capable of that, but also means that other manufacturers can build cars with roughly the same ~8 cameras and the FSD software and it can go!
absolutely enormous robotaxi fleet, almost literally over night... someday... or... that's the idea, at least
@@evanwilliamson8338”self driving is much safer than people driving! Let’s give our FSD the same capabilities as humans, except worse, and except ears, smell and feel.”
My town (Hamburg, Germany) is testing autonomous public transport right now to be used in the newly constructed and soon to be constructed city districts, designed to be compatible with autonomous public transport. I‘ve been really hype about it so far. Now I‘m so conflicted.
Building a nice great train system fixes so many problems including the one where you have to actively drive your car, it's self driving technology at its finest... You can also sleep in it without worrying about dying
I’m one of those people that would hate the loss of vehicle ownership.
-I would loose the freedom to just go out to a remote field to fly my RC planes whenever I want (and loose the storage space to put all these battery chargers, planes, controllers without figuring out how to haul stuff without getting stared at). So many hobbies I have that a public transport won’t be able to just drop me off in a weird spot while I haul a 5ft wing.
-Not worry about routes and schedules, having the temperature and high quality music I want. I can do more leisure travel anyway and be able to make private phones calls.
-I’m in a clean environment that I know I cleaned and not sitting on cloth seat filled with dust (unless it was Japan, my experience there was excellent).
-I can just go to a random dark place after work and enjoy the sky away from civilization.
-During long trips, I’m not bound by the bus/train not being able to stop at a cool spot. With a car I can go enjoy a sunset overlooking a mountain.
If I became handicapped I could still do many things that public transportation just would not be able to provide that an owned self driving car could do. I can even send it off to park in a free spot after dropping me off.
Sometimes public transportation works and sometimes it doesn’t. Neither vehicle ownership or public transportation is an objectively good option for all.
Unless I was (unfortunately) in a city where public transportation is the only logical option, I would not even consider it in a typical American lifestyle if it were easily available where I live.
Many hobbies and enjoyments would literally be killed if I lived where little enjoyments just had to be left behind.
@@battery_wattage I'm not saying ban cars lol, but most people don't need them, realistically most of them are just going to the grocery store and to work... that can easily be accomplished by a train system... If you really want a road trip - rent a car, once or twice a year... Anyways, if it's someone like you who wants to drive to some field, no autonomous car nor train will do that while carrying equipment, so I can see a use for a car there, again - I'm not saying ban cars... but yes, ban them mostly... people who need them need them, you can never replace the need for a car
@@aquss33 Not even "easily accomplished" by a train system--in many ways, actively preferable. Although to get there, we would have to decentralize groceries, which are now absolutely dominated by major chains and supercenters. I would love to just hop on my bike for a half-mile jaunt to the local grocer. Exercise and an errand at the same time. Way more efficient!
move to Europe? we love trains.
@@richardsylvester6483 I'm in eastern Europe, so we do have a lot of trains, but they're from the 70s and 80s ans they're always late
Think of it this way. The number of things a train can do while underway is way less than a car.
Railways are a way more controlled enviroment than a road, you aren't surprised by a sudden lack of signeage and lane indicators, and fewer children play on the train tracks than in the street.
Trains have way more oversight than cars, there is someone monitoring every switch and light.
But we have yet to build fully automated trains.
i thought they were automated ...
@@blue_ish4499 Not in the slightest. We've automated boats, we've automated fucking PLANES, but nobody's thought of trying to automate a train. The best we have is a system that can force a train into a full stop if it ignores a red signal. Though... actually thinking about it I believe there are some places that have freight trains that're fully autonomous.
Well, there kinda is automated trains: you have metros (like is paris), that are fully automated. And nothing is stopping us from making a train that has an hybrid system like for planes, switching from manual to automatic depending on the context
Technically not wrong. But Cab signaling exists in trains and to some extent kinda does this. It even corrects human error.
And yet every couple months I hear about some massive train derailment where dozens of people died. Even in those controlled environments it would seem that trains can be incredibly unsafe.
While I agree with the major points of this video (and congrats for pushing out of your comfort zone on this one, Benn!), the problem with advocating for a shift towards purpose-built autonomous vehicles based on distributed intelligence is that there are so many uncertain and unpredictable factors that can happen in the real world compared to a nice closed-world and fully-observable environment like the Boids simulation you were running on. Things break down in the real world, infrastructure, connectivity, sensors are noisy & unreliable, and what's to stop Timmy Trump from running into the autonomous vehicle-only lanes? By the time you've fully accomodated for all these factors, I'd argue that you're already more than halfway to solving the general self driving problem. I note that these aren't mutually exclusive solutions, though, so it may still be viable to pursue.
However, investing in public transport instead still makes so much more sense 🙂
I am sure someone mentioned this already…..regarding the exclusive lane concept…GM already did it in the 90’s. It was an experiment on the 805 in San Diego. Cars would enter the freeway…cars equipped with the same tech would find each other and create “platoons.” The platoons were able to travel super efficiently because all the cars would watch each other. You could have coffee and read a paper etc. When your exit came up the car would alert you and the other members of the platoons. The platoon would open up - then you manually leave the platoon and exit. It relied on infrastructure in the road and hardware/software. It was the BOIDS in real life. Its goal was to make freeway commuting safer and much more faster and if worked. It may not be end to end FSD but imagine your daily commute going from two hours to 30 mins because of this concept. Check it out if you haven’t already.
Insane quality to this production! I LOVE seeing how your style translates to these non-music videos! It’s clear that your editing and presentation style meant to make music content less awful actually translates into captivating videos for other topics as well! Amazing work as always Benn, your channel always brings the hits.
Yes, but with inaccurate data it's basically pointless...
I totally agree, we should put the autonomous vehicles on a separate track and allow communication between them on a network. And maybe we could add stations so people can get on and off whenever they want. And maybe we could chain a bunch of cars together so they can carry more people! Omg this sounds like a great idea, we should call it the TRansport Autonomous Independent Network or... TRAIN for short!
I think Track Running Autonomous Independent Network would work even better.
LOL good stuff
We could even put them on steel rails to lower rolling resistence
@@rlwelch there could even be an additional rail that supplied energy, so that charging stations would be unnecessary.
Okay...but what if people don't like riding on trains?
What if someone wants to be alone or with their family and not with 30 or so strangers?
What if you want to go somewhere that's no on the route everyone else wants to go to?
Trains are never going to be a workable solution until people start actually making them a better option than cars, and that means addressing the actual shortcomings. If you want people to ride trains, you need to ask why people don't like riding them now and find a way to fix that.
For example, what train lets you get on and off "Whenever you want" rather than on a tight and regular schedule of departure and arrival times in the best case scenario? Assuming it doesn't come late or get canceled or just not come? I've had trains cancelled on my in the Colorado Winter. It's not very fun.
What train accommodates all schedules? It's all well and good if you work a normal 9-to-5 but not everyone does. When I worked a job that got off at 10PM there was 1 rail going from the city center to my home. If something happened at work or I am running behind and miss the train? Well sucks to be me, the next one doesn't come till early next morning.
I don't even like driving, but after a year of dealing with the bus and train system, I caved and just bought a car. More comfortable, more convenient, more safe, more clean, and more flexible.
when they say "safer than humans" what they really mean is safer than drunk drivers or drivers who use their phone, or extremely bad drivers who shouldn't even have a driving license to begin with
That's not what they say they mean. That's what they SHOULD mean, but it's not the intention. Also I'm not sure that's true
You think it's not true that a good driver, aware of his surroundings, is going to be better on the road comapred to a self driving car? I think a good defensive driver would be better@@otakudjr
Computers attached to a fleet of sensors can perceive better and react faster than a sober human who is paying attention. Whether they do react is a different story.
The best human driver ever is the goal so it should technically be better than any single person since this would be an optimization of all the best drivers.
I drive and text all the time - no accidents since 2006 (before "modern" texting) - so it's not safer than a texting driver. A tesla would have amassed a pile of bodies by now.
Slight correction on the lidar point - it's really bad in stormy weather and fog, as well as mud, and it's very comptutationally expensive just like Tesla's cameras. Radar sensors are better in that case, and they can see behind some obstacles.
Lidar is not some be-all-end-all of sensors, especially in terms of cost effectiveness.
The dream at the end is just trains but for antisocial people who really want to make stops to charge every few hours.
oh this train stuff needs to stop, trains are trains, tracks are not roads
@@geekswithfeet9137 Train is a better solution to the problem at hand. You cant fit an extra lane into every small street, so autonomous cars would have to be limited to main roads. At that point, just build a track instead. Even then, there is more than enough roads already as it is. Reducing cars is a beneficial in every way.
@@captainmorgan2530 do you realise the insanity of the amount of tracks would need to be installed? Trains serve a purpose for central hubs and long distance. But I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but they don’t have steering and can’t go off road very well
@@geekswithfeet9137 Wow it's almost like public transport systems are actually SYSTEMS and thus any good train system is interlinked with a good tram, bus, bike infrastructure, and walkable housing systems
@@geekswithfeet9137 I think @grinffi pretty much said what I would. Its not just about spamming bunch of trains. Its about an interlinked system where trains connect cities and towns, within those trams, buses, and metro systems allow you to get pretty much anywhere. On top of that, a good bike and pedestrian infrastructure can ease accessing them, or replace them for shorter distances. Its not about removing the car completely, just giving people other means of transport, so they dont have to solely rely on this inefficient, expensive system that also destroys our cities and enviroment in its current state.
“More efficient infrastructure separate from human drivers”
My brother in Christ, you’ve reinvented railroads
No, a railroad is a fixed point-to-point link. A road network has many (sometimes infinite) overlapping inlets and outlets, so you can go to many places.
For instance, an HOV lane is not a railroad, and light rail doesn't do the same thing an HOV lane does.
@@louisvaught2495 Railroad is imo supposed to be a backbone for a finer net of bus or tram lines so that you can get in walking distance of your destination. HOV lanes are pretty static as well
@@creeper6530 HOV lanes are extremely flexible. It's just the cost of painting the markings and installing the signs.
@@louisvaught2495 Ah, got it. So, what is this Hyperloop thing?
Just kidding. Musk revealed that Hyperloop was just meant to kill rail traffic without ever actually getting implemented.
I guess Elon Musk talks about Spurbus (yes, that's German word), a concept he invented and implemented more than 80 years before he was born.
@@louisvaught2495 I visit Prague quite often. Now Prague isnt the pinackle of public transport, but its still arguebly faster to go to a nearest tram/metro/bus station and get to your destination that way, than if you had to get through traffic, and then find a parking spot. That is even considering, that the city is still overly car centric, and refuses to put a low speed limit for cars. Public transport (especially in US) doesnt get you where you want effectively, because it often operates on fraction of the budget that car infrastructure does. Also the cities are being designed in a way, that makes the car the only viable option in a lot of places, thanks to ineffective land use.
A lot seems to depend on context. In SF we've been seeing Waymo vehicles circling our block for several years, as they map the details of the city's geography. I can imagine that they can do pretty well in a locale where they've accumulated millions of miles of training data. And in fact Waymo seems pretty reasonably able to navigate a ride from the Sunset to North Beach. But this does not imply that they can do this in Oakland, or Walnut Creek or San Mateo.
I just rode in a Tesla from a parking space in one city to a parking space in another city, without doing anything. It drove the whole way. Does that not count as “driving me around?”
Thanks for making this video. I’m a bit less skeptical of FSD’s future than you, but I’ve only used it a handful of times and its mistakes scared the heck out of me so I quit. It also tried to kill me last week when I was driving fully manual: it incorrectly detected a pending side impact and swerved heavily into the next lane - which had another vehicle in it directly beside me. If I hadn’t been holding the wheel with both hands it would’ve snatched it right out of my hands and I’d have collided. Great fun!
That guy who put his child at risk like that should be charged with child abuse and child endangerment.
I just spent a bit under a month in Japan and set up my trip to maximize the value I got out of the JR Pass I purchased beforehand, which meant my travel plans prioritized trains over everything else, and it is incredible what a difference it makes when a culture actually values civic infrastructure. Just a single example: I traveled from downtown Kyoto to a small town on the shores of Lake Hamano in a few hours and taking 3 trains, two of which were run by private rail companies (lest you think socialism is required to have functional mass transit). The last (private) train I was on was also the most expensive per kilometer, but that's because it was a single-car diesel train that was effectively a bus on rails, and it still only cost me a few bucks / ¥400 each way. The point is, I was able to get from somewhere to almost nowhere without leaving train stations and without relying on individual transport, and the experience wasn't entirely convenient (it was cold, and some of the waits between trains were pretty long), but it was easy and cheap. And I don't know a lot about how bands tour in Japan, but live houses generally have good-quality backlines and baggage delivery services are convenient, cheap, and relatively timely.
Our (Americans') insistence that having our own cars guarantees us the most freedom and convenience is not as self-evidently true as we seem to think it is. And while it's kind of a tired observation by now that Elon used Hyperloop as a stalking horse to take down high-speed rail, it does seem pretty clear based on the evidence that a huge part of his tireless hyping of autopilots is rooted in financial self-interest and an ideological opposition to increased efficiency through shared infrastructure to realize economies of scale.
Japanese public transport system is heavily subsidised, same as in Switzerland. It's not as visible as in other countries, it's not a "yearly bailout", it's mainly the government pouring money into the rail network and letting private companies operate on it. I'm not an American, I'm Czech. Prague is often praised for having "the best" (or second best) public transport in the EU, yet it is heavily subsidised and unless you buy a year pass, it's still about as expensive as driving in a car alone. Cars are not subsidised and the fuel is subject to heavy taxation. Without cars, the whole public transportation system would collapse as it is paid for from the money taken in extra fuel taxes.
Besides what Neverstopschweiking said, it's also magnitudes smaller than the US. It's just not feasible. It's the primary reason you have more public transport on the eastern half given the proximity of cities and towns etc. whereas the closer you get to the divide the farther apart everything starts getting.
@@neverstopschweiking So? Guess what, our road networks are heavily subsidized too.
@@kevadu The US ones? Where I live, in the Czech Republic, our road network is fully maintained from the tax on fuel alone. Plus it generates so much money it pays for rails as well.
You already mentioned a few downsides... like more exposure to climate while changing rides, waiting times.
Trains also often are overcrowded, especially short distance rides like Subways and in many places dirty/stinky.
Also they only can bring you from station to station and you rarely ever want to go to just a railway station, so you need a different transport at the other end... like a bus, tram, subway or taxicab...
Trains still are pretty convenient and if you have the money for a high class train like Shinkansen or german ICEs it's a great and comfortable experience. Almost better than flying, except for the timesaving over middle and longhaul flights...
As a motorcyclist, 'self-driving cars' keep trying to kill me and my kin.
Ditto kangaroos. Self-driving cars seem to hate them (or more accurately can't process their strange profile and movement) ... And kangaroos are extremely dangerous animals to run into because they have a habit of being very high off the ground when they move quickly, and thus a habit of going through your windshield and killing people in the front seat, thrashing about madly in their terror and death throes and tearing apart people inside the cars with their claws and tail.
This is prevented by drivers slowing down around them on the side of the road, or hitting the breaks before colliding with one.
So personally, not crash hot on them. '''Self driving''' cars, that is. I like kangaroos.
And the problem is you can never actually escape the argument of personal responsibility with or without them. I had a person argue; 'But hypothetically, autonomous vehicles will be safer eventually.'
Here's the problem, though...
The roads have never been safe, but at least we've always had 'someone to blame' ... The driver(s), or a dodgy mechanic, or someone playing silly buggers on the side of the road.
Who exactly is to blame when oh so often a motorcycle or kangaroo isn't recognized as a motorcycle or kangaroo and an 'autonomous vehicle' decides to park a wheel on top of them at an intersection, or not hit the breaks in front of one?
Now if these vehicles get marketed as 'self-driving', then a***holes will pretend like the threat of murdering motorcyclists and kangaroos isn't their problem. The automakers call it 'teething problems', but that's not really a concern to me because me and my bike are under a two metric ton EV monster that while also tearing up public roads far more because of their massive battery beds, are also a hell of a lot more frightening because they're heavier and everybody keeps spewing 'self-driving tech' at the target demographic of them.
And here's the thing ...
I pay taxes.
I ride a motorbike because I love motorbikes. And they're more greener than even the greenest EV will ever be.
I get 21ks to the litre on my Moto Guzzi V7 Stone.
How much power and how many tyres do you go through with your Model Y?
How much does your Model Y weigh and how much road wear do you think it contributes to infrastructure costs and the pollution of fixing them for said unnecessary wear?
If we add in resources, materials use, parking infrastructure, charging bays, industrial processes, and more--It's no contest ...
My Moto Guzzi will be greener than your Model Y from now until the year 10,000AD.
Because my Moto Guzzi isn't a two metric ton monster.
Bonus points? I won't be murdering people unlike your Model Y does *routinely* ...
I accept the risks of riding a motorcycle.
If people who buy EVs are doing it to 'be green', why don't they buy a motorbike instead?
And while I will accept a world where I can't ride my motorbike because of fantastic public transport, and everybody living by bus and train and all that *actually* green technology--I refuse to pay taxes to maintain worse roads for the sake of people pretending to be 'green' having an 'autonomous' monster-weight vehicle threatening to kill me and the wildlife with reckless abandon.
If the only counter-argument to this is; 'You should drive a car instead to be safer on the roads and should just accept EVs will murder you if you are a motorcyclist.'
... that's unreasonable.
I think that's not fair.
I think it's deeply inconsiderate, and while I'm not a Stalinist--I think we should send people like that to the labour camps.
You're basically as bad as all those urbanites that drive SUVs just because they can, and because they have erectile dysfunction or Karen syndrome, and want to take it out on the rest of the community by terrorizing the roads.
Well put - every single word.
Ride safe, brother, and keep those eyes peeled for the T-monsters. Like Emperor Musk's clothes, you are invisible...
@@thedubwhisperer2157 Absolutely.
I mean, the thing is automakers are just treating us as guinea pigs. BMW guy came out and years ago tried to argue that autonomous vehicles should predicate the driver's safety over all other concerns, including other vehicles and pedestrians...
The thing is, I've never been part of human experimental trials without having signed a thing called a 'consent form' ...
So why exactly do automakers get to treat us like guinea pigs despite objectively having a profit motive to excuse the fact that they keep murdering us?
The way I see it, it's best to think of this A.I. nonsense on vehicles should be seen as human experimental trials--And unless every possible 'participant' (literally everybody in a country) signs, get stuffed Elon and co.
Could you imagine such a consent form?
"Hey, we believe the owners' safety of our vehicles should be predicated over not driving over your kids or grandparents, or your Auntie Jane or Uncle Joe on their Triumph...
Do you give us permission to test the extents of this programming in our two metric ton death-mobile because car drivers should be allowed to play with our Tesla iPads instead of being held legally responsible for operating their vehicle and keeping their attention on the road?
Thank you for considering being part of this grand sociological experiment at your expense.
P.S. If we run you over, can we also get permission to all your metadata?"
Current cars can't tell the difference between a block of foam and a block of concrete. If it's a block of foam and I have a semi truck behind me I won't brake, but the car could decide to brake even if it's way more dangerous. My car has HDA (Hyundai Driving Assist) and I've disabled almost everything. The lane centering just ping-pongs between the lanes and sometimes tries to take exits, and in one year so far I had to do emergency braking 3 times on my own because the radar cruise control was going to plow into stopped cars. Add to that the fact that these don't work in winter (so 4 months a year where I live) and it's pretty useless.
Current cars yes, but the same clues that let a human figure out it's just foam can also be picked up by a properly programed autopilot.
The current tech is there yet but this still doesn't mean auto drive programs will never be as good as human drivers.
I don't understand why Hyundai's system doesn't work in winter. The only winter problem I've noticed with my Model 3 is the automatic braking & acceleration systems don't properly recognize snow/ice until the wheels start slipping. A human would already know (and remember) that an icy road is slippery and behave differently. The car computer hasn't been programmed to recognize that. Yet.
It's also not a good idea to use one system (Hyundai) and say that's how all of the systems behave. In 5 years I've never had lane centering be a problem. Same with Adaptive Cruise Control. These features on a Tesla are so good I think Adaptive Cruise should be mandatory on all new cars. That will prevent inattentive humans from hitting other vehicles when driving down the highway. But not all companies systems are created the same.
@@ddegn they maybe address the easiest 80% of use cases currently, the last 20% are the hardest to deal with. The edge cases take way more effort and processing power than the day to day cases.
@@davedujour1 they don’t work in winter when the lanes aren’t visible, when it’s snowing and the radar and camera are blocked, when there’s salt on the road and the windshield is so dirty that the camera is blocked, and since they now use eco friendly paint for the lanes they tend to be completely erased by the end of winter.
Interesting. I have had cameras covered in snow that degrades FSD, but even snow covered lanes and paint that's not visible, my Tesla still handles lane centering and adaptive cruise.
It does require more cleaning of the cameras though.
Steering correction is so dangerous for me
Every time I’m loaned a trash car like that I turn it off
It feels like it’s fighting me and it guarantees I run over potholes
It doesn’t understand road hazards
I won't name them, but I ride with someone who LOVES to hug the SIDE of a lane. Scares the hell outta me. If you are constantly fighting lane correction, this might be a clue for you.
{}------{}
| U |
| |
{}------{}
U are not in the MIDDLE of the car, U are to the side.
1. | - U |
2. | - U |
3. | - U |
1. Is correct. (Unless in a country that drives on the other side of the road of course)
If that's not you, np just a nice reminder for anyone else reading lol. And if formatting is wrong on whatever you are viewing this, please ignore I tried my best.
I love the boyds example, but when I think about the idea for a separate lane or highway for self driving vehicles, I just want the lane to be a TRAIN.
Even with all this taken into account, I still say "never say never". New technologies start out expensive and shitty, then a bit less expensive and a bit less shitty, but finally they become affordable and good
That's not true at all. Plenty of technologies never get cheap enough or good enough to be household items. SOME technologies do, but far from all.
25 years ago, people were saying that CNC machines would be so cheap and easy to use that everyone would have one in their home. 5 years ago, people were saying the same thing about 3D printers and wondering why people like me were rolling our eyes. Home automation has existed since the 1980s and has always sucked to various degrees, even when re-branded to "smart home". One could easily go on with examples.
That table at 14:32 from lendingtree did indeed come from a study with severe methodological errors as you suspect. They didn't collect data on people driving those cars, they collected data on people who were attempting to get insurance quotes to buy a car from that company.
Thank you for adding that context! You prevented me from going down a rabbit hole
If we are going to make a separate road network for autonomous vehicles. You have reinvented the train. A piece of technology that has been around for 200 years and something that no other form of transportation can match in terms of scalability or driver safety.
Except not at all, because what these roads would be and what trains tracks are are two COMPLETELY different things. All that these vehicles need are more clear and consistent markings and some more formality in the rules of their use. It's not that big of an ask.
@@Chris-xo2rq The problem is far more expansive, you have to ensure that nothin external gets onto this road, no children, animals, etc... this would just again be a shitty version of a train, as all the other individual "pod" ideas have been... very expensive and all without the capacity and reliability of a train. What happens when a car break down. Do you just lock down the entire road until pople have retrieved it?
@@Chris-xo2rq No amount of roads can match the per meter scalability or efficiency of a train. We have thousands of miles of rail already built all over the US. What you are suggesting is that we make not just more highways, but more and expensive highways instead of just using that time, money, and engineering to build out more and better trains. High speed rail is the only, I will say that again, the only form of mass transportation that pays for itself. Trains get more efficient and cost less the faster they go, cars cannot go as fast as trains.
Mmmm, not really. Trains lack the ability to deliver people or goods to specific locations.
Thank you! Yes he was so close in this video and completely missed the mark. At least someone in the comments didn't miss the obvious end point.
I own a tesla with full self driving. I totally agree. My car began to stop for a redlight earlier today and then decided "Nah" and tried to blow through it instead. The software is cutting edge... but it being closed source and not audited is insane. Not to mention doesn't help other companies collaborate to move the tech further to keep us safe in this critical point in it's development lifecycle.
A professor of mine in college spoke about this in my Software Engineering class. He said (I'm paraphrasing), "You need to take what you write seriously. The title "Software Engineer" is malformed. Software engineers are not held to the same standard as other engineers. We already write software that can kill people and that will only become more true as time goes on."
You trust your life to an AI car? Woe!
true.
I had a professor when I was a chem eng student who put it clearly:
a classmate asked him for partial credit on a homework problem. He said "when your calculation error results in the refinery you designed exploding, will you get a partial paycheck?"
a partial fine & jail sentence too I would think. ☠️
Hey, politicians can be bought you know!
One of my favorite sayings about that is “if structural engineers designed buildings the way software engineers designed software, the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization.”
"I own a tesla with full self driving"
No you don't, that's the point.
I just rented a tesla for the first time. I was told it didn't have self driving but found it I. The options and turned it on anyway. Having driven it about 350 miles so far it's awesome. Self driving cars are bit only the inevitable future, it will some day be illegal to drive your own vehicles on public roads. Sure that is around 100 years away realistically speaking but considering that point it will have been less than 200 years since before that for all of human history that the closest anyone got to self driving was a horse or camel.
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who has a Tesla who regrets it. There’s so much focus on the self-driving (don’t have it, don’t want it) but I don’t see nearly enough talk about how dangerous the autopilot is. I’m in a winter climate and I just don’t even use it. It isn’t worth it since it gets disabled ridiculously easily and the way it disables is beyond scary. I learned this the hard way driving on the highway, autopilot on, and the cameras got obscured enough by snow sludge that it just disabled when I was in the middle of a curve. Teslas don’t gradually slow down like combustion vehicles, so that combined with the steering going from turning to straight (on that curve) scared the crap out of me and I had my hands on the wheel the whole time.
Then there’s the wipers that I can only control by hitting a button and looking away from the road to the screen to select the speed I want. How that was allowed to be done is beyond my comprehension. Elon Musk is a menace and shouldn’t be the CEO of anything, let alone any company that makes things that require safety standards.
Hi Benn, I’m fellow driver of FSD & OpenPilot. I’ve been driving a Tesla since 2018. I had a 2018 Model 3 & now have a 2023 Model Y. I guess that makes be a repeat offender. Back in 2018 I was a huge believer in Tesla’s vision (Elon’s vision) of FSD. That has changed quite a bit to the point I don’t think my Tesla Model Y will ever become a robotaxi. In early 2020 I purchased a 2019 Kia Niro PHEV and install a Comma AI with OpenPilot. And yeah, like you, I went through a long testing period until I found something that worked for me.
All that to say I really enjoyed your video. It was very detailed. In fact, when watching it I felt like I was reliving my life in the last five years as an unpaid autonomous driving beta testier. So, thank you for the time you spend creating this content. Hopefully more people will understand there’s more to this autonomous driving stuff.
As a motorcycle rider.... these cars have been going wonky since they disabled the radar units and removed them from all the new ones. More than a statistical anomaly amount of motorcyclists because the vision system is far from perfect. It scares me worse now that the logic used in the car is to not FORCE the driver to take over when it doesn't know.
You drive with vision only. How?
It doesn't force takeovers?
@@danparish1344 by being smarter than most cars. The issue is that they are confusing motorcycles up close to cars at a distance from how it's been explained to me.
@@BenefitOfTheDoubtInquiry well, from what I've seen in this video and a couple of others, it encounters an issue and keeps in control until it can't see that issue anymore. I would much prefer the system to make the human take over. My car does that, but it appears that Tesla doesn't.
The fact that my old 2001 mini van I drove for years had better sensing technology for it's backup warning system than a modern Tesla has for it's automatic breaking system is pretty good evidence cutting corners while charging the most is all this company cares about.
23:02 hmmm, maybe those lanes can be composed of 2 metal guide bars that are embedded into the the earth, and the cars will travel on and along these bars. If only there was a system that did that.
Perhaps we could even separate these road-rails from other forms of traffic and simplify the door-to-door pickup problem by centralizing places where people could get on the self-driving vehicles in convenient locations!
And if we connect several cars together into a long wormy thing, it would make it even more efficient. And then we could have nice seats, maybe a small restaurant to eat, for longer journeys a bed to sleep in and....
Why have no one thought of this?
@@Xanthopteryx And maybe we can make land grow on trees, and we can pick that land from the trees, and spread it all over the existing cities and suburban infrastructure to facilitate the operation of these wormy things.
And you can increase the efficiency a lot by making those rails and the wheels both steel.
Only have so much metal man that seems like a bit of a stretch
Hey. So it's the first time I see your videos and It's been a big surprise to me to actually recognize your face from one of your albums and realize you're the Flashbulb. It's hard to underestimate how your music affected my teenage years, memories and art that I was inspired to do by it. Great content as well!
Thanks for the tip! Veeeery nice music.
Holy shit? He's Flashbulb?!
@@SarinEA Yes, that was a surprise for me as well
"volunteered his child"
to the cps? that should be an immediate and without any further question removal of the child from the idiots care. you volunteer yourself if you think it is safe or want to test something, and even that is usually questionable.
I, as a car guy, actually would perfer better public transportation infrastructure than more self driving tech, for the near future at least. Free up the road for total analog drivers like me and all the people that hate commuting car just chill for the majority of their way to work.
Sounds like you really need to get into trains. The Paris Metro has had self-driving since the 1950s. M1 went fully self-driving (level 4) in 2011. There are now 3 Level 4 Metro lines in Paris. It works, no accidents, I've tried it myself. This is how you separate autonomous vehicles - in tunnels under the city...
Different country, different culture.
Trains aren't big for people transport in the US, and that won't change b/c many people in the US don't like standing pressed up against one another more than they don't like sitting in their car in traffic.
@@MrSlowestD16 Dude, we have just as big a country but with 8% of the population. On the Ghan you can travel for days across the desert, eating well, sleeping comfortably. Most of us get to work on Trains, cities are designed around them. Trains work really well. The US has had some kind of weird train phobia for the past 70 years.
Dude Germany fits in our national parks, we don’t have the same size country.
@@guyincognito1406 Australia (look up 'The Ghan')
@@guyincognito1406 ua-cam.com/video/3PBlOBaBBJ8/v-deo.html Driverless Trains in Sydney
It always trips me up how much people are willing to ignore when it comes to full self driving. They are so invested in the idea that FSD is safer than humans that they would rather ignore all evidence and call people shills than go "Yeah maybe there's a lot of work to be done here..."
I follow exactly one guy who tests FSDbeta precisely because he says when things are crap, that he still wouldn’t trust it in most of the scenarios he tests for day to day driving, and still only uses it as a “sanity check” for his own driving most of the time (like not veering off wildly, or sometimes it avoids a deer he didn’t see). Everyone else I saw testing it was an insufferable hype monster.
same people who think we will colonize mars in the coming years; they're too invested in the fiction sold by grifters now. also same people who think AI can actually replace artists.
I came to the conclusion a few years ago that Full Self Driving will NOT come until 5 years plus AFTER its finally been solved, to account for REGULATORS fully testing and APPROVING or Certifying it. So, whenever Elon "Officially" announces that FSD is finally here (ACTUALLY "officially", lol... not his typical hype BS)... automatically expect it to come out 5 years from that 'official' day. And that's how everyone should think/assume it will happen... cause after 10 years of hearing/waiting for "full self driving... by next year", it's obviously a bluff and not coming any time soon (and by soon, I mean multiple years at a minimum)
@@valdir7426 Do you think that technology, of all sorts, will simply stay at it's current level and not continuously evolve over time? You seem delusional. Compare "AI" from 10 years ago to today, and then think about how it will be 10 years from now, or 50 years from now. AI not only CAN replace artists (and a whole ton of other jobs), but it WILL replace artists. Especially when no one can tell the difference between the 2 (tons of boomers already can't tell the difference between the 2 right now as it is, as you can see tons of comments from them on Facebook posts of very obvious AI generations as if they were real photos)
@@rdizzy1 you're the one delusional AI will probably work for mediocre PR work but it will not replace artists. in fact remove the original artists and AI has nothing to munch on and starts canibalizing itself. The tool we have are fun and some of it will probably be integrated into creation tools like photoshop but if money people actually think it will replace artists we'll be left with a cultural landfill of extreme mediocrity. Also very much like self driving cars this kind of technological tool has a ceiling and going from "ahah mickey mouse in the style of Magritte" to "the AI replace artists" is not going to happen. Use AI for its idiosyncrasies and help it can provide, not to replace actual human creativity.
As a city bus driver, I have very little fear that full autonomous buses will be a thing in the next 20 years.
Autonomous metro systems are very definitely a thing, and they often get installed to replace the busiest bus routes. There will still be a need for buses on less busy routes though, and autonomous metros are very definietely not staff-free.
@@katrinabryce Going to take decades to convince DOT and FMCA to allow fully autonomous buses on the road. They tried to put EV buses where I work, and the batteries couldn't keep a charge. I have little faith in any substantial changes happening anytime soon.
@@JohnSmith-qe6fb don't listen to Katrina, she probably knows nothing about commerical driving or AI. The loudest voices usually understand the least about what they talk about.
You are a bus driver which invalidates all your opinions about anything other than traffic dynamics
@@snorttroll4379 A rude and naive statement that consists of nothing. Autonomous road travel is hyped as something great; It doesn't achieve anything that we can't already do.
End of April 2024 now. With the recent rapid advancements in FSD, have you changed your opinion?
Segregated autonomous vehicle lanes already exist lol; Trams, trains and subways. This whole self driving thing is just reinventing the wheel.
I live in Vancouver, which has the SkyTrain, a fully autonomous train system that's been running for almost 40 years, and seeing how well it operates-even the 40-year-old first-generation train cars are still operating on the Expo Line just fine-compared to these laughable attempts to make autonomous cars, frustrates me to no end. It's almost like we'd have a much easier time implementing autonomous vehicles if those vehicles didn't have to focus on trying to detect all manner of traffic signs, lane markings, obstacles, and pedestrians; and instead were put on grade-separated track where the only things they have to worry about are speeding up and slowing down for curves, stopping at stations, and keeping enough distance between the trains in front and behind. I'd say imagine that, but I don't have to, because it's literally how I commute to my college everyday and it's _great._ Give me more of it please, and not Elon Musk's Pathological Lying Machine.
For someone making a video on this, heres a little tip: You do not need to jerk the wheel when the Tesla asks you to. Just turn the music up or down on the scroll wheel, or up on the opposite scroll wheel to increase max speed.
Oh, cool. Didnt know that.
The volume shortcut has been disabled in v12 of FSD.
Phillip.
@@philliptemple9841 Oh, you have 12. How is it?
@@nowayoutalive8732 Not me but watching those that have it and it's a comment they made in the video. It looks incredible. They all seem to say it's super smooth, which you can't tell just by watching the video, and doesn't have those 'janky' moments any more. Tap FSD12 into search and filter by last week.
Phillip.