As a fleet manager, I had to purchase new machines, refrigerant which is four times more expensive and a recharge process that takes twice as long. Not to mention having to train my techs. Nice job EPA, keep giving it to the little guy.
Just a little FYI: Iso-Butane is a better refrigerant than Propane. But, like you said, flammable. Now, consider that your A/C system is a closed loop. And, barring a catastrophic accident, will not start a fire. Unlike the movies, compressed Propane will not explode when punctured by anything. Even if a flame is present - no explosion - just a rush of flame and them - out.
Just recently there was a car accident with a van that had the refrigerant replaced with propane, the firefighters had trouble trying to extinguish the car because of it... The fuel is the only highly flameable medium I accept to keep in my car
@@tomboxyz5564 Yep - I have read stories like that and they all have been debunked. An A/C system charged with Butane will spew for about 15 seconds before stopping. If the fire Dept had a problem extinguishing the blaze, it was not the fault of the Butane
It’s not a rush of flame, butane and propane expand rapidly when released from the pressurised closed loop system, test archive footage ua-cam.com/video/FO47SzxJmV0/v-deo.htmlsi=qfivze0UT6f1ibI_
I can say it's been a real challenge and quite the education dealing with the new refrigerant. Takes me almost an hour to properly charge a system now. And yes I am bouncing back and forth between 2 bays just to make time and money.
Your response has peaked my curiosity here 😂 What is taking longer? 1. Fittings or hooking up the manifold hoses. 2. Vacuum process. 3. Charging (still by weight) 4. Verifying correct operation. I’m wanting to remove the refrigerant and as much oil as possible and then re-add accordingly. What say you? ThankYou
new cars don't use r1234yc, it was used for short period of time, not anymore, or at least not where I live, I know gulf spec. cars sometimes use different A/C system. But currently used AC uses co2 for "refrigerant".
@@3rdworldgarage450 that is why you Yank that motor transmission and computer with wiring harness out and throw it away and put in something that really does work old school baby
I remember when 134a came out and a can of it was uber expensive. I think the more vehicles that use it the price will come down. And I also remember all fear the manufacturers put out about how you can't do this or that or you'll ruin you a/c and it ended up being b.s. I just wonder who is behind this new refrigerant because I don't see why the need to change other than some huge Corp making huge amounts of money and making it even harder for independent shops to make it!!
I trained as an automotive service technician back when R 12 was being phased out in favor of R134a. This new change seems a lot like planned obsolescence . I became an engine builder . So I have not done much work on AC systems unless it was a car I was trying to sell . My one personal project truck that I did put air conditioning on didn't come from the factory with it . So I installed a classic air system . It actually cost me about the same money to install AC as It did to make the 5.7 liter Hemi run in a 1978 dodge Powerwagon .
Eric your spot on correct about the stack of condensers that need to be delivered to every dealership in North America. thanks for sharing this information on UA-cam for all Honda passenger vehicle drivers.
I bought 3 case's of r12 back in 92 when i was 17 fir no other reason but to just have it. I still have 89 mustang that uses it. And still have 30 of those cans in the garage. Now that the 1234yf is out I've started buying 134 at Wal-Mart just to have. So far I'm up to around 4 cases. It's like ammo I just keep buying it.
Just change the compressor out with an R-134a compressor after the compressor goes bad. vacuum the system, fill with R-134a, and you have air conditioning. I have done this with several R-12 equipped vehicles that lost their compressors to age. I just went to the salvage yard, got a compressor used with R-134a, vacuum, and fill.
Legal issues aside 1234yf and 134a run at nearly the same pressures (by design) and use the same lubricants (by design). You can recharge a 1234yf with 134a without issue in nearly all cases. There are some oil compatibility issues that could come up as they aren't identical chemically so it isn't zero risk but by and large the two refrigerants are interchangeable in practice, you just need to find the right fittings. And if you are worried about oil compatibility just buy some 1234yf oil and add it in. The reason 1234yf is so expensive is that certain companies in the chemical industry lobbied to get their proprietary refrigerants approved since the 134a patent expired instead of an 'open source' type of refrigerant of which there were many options. In short, yes, you can absolutely service 1234yf systems for cheap. It isn't legal, though nothing really is these days and you won't ever get prosecuted for it unless you do it commercially.
@@michaelsolis9891 That is what will be claimed. The R-12 of days gone by did cause ozone damage in the upper atmosphere. But the R-134a does not have that issue. Whenever govenement agencies can get away with abusing power, they will do it.
Evacuate the system, let it sat for a while, see if it holds vacuum, add a little freon, check for leaks,, if no leaks are found, completely recharge the system, that’s standard procedure for all a/c systems, regardless of freon type,
You forgot pressurize with nitrogen and spray connections with soap bubbles first..then pull a vacuum(with a proper micron gauge). If no bubbles no troubles..and if vacuum pulled and sitting ( not vacuum pumump running) below 400microns then system should be tight. I pull all my systems ( cars to 300ton equipment to standing 200microns and below.
I remember having to take a test to get an "R-12 card" back in the day. Then the R-12 was so expensive I was better off converting my vehicles to R-134a. They'll probably pull the same thing with R-134a. Thanks EU...
i heard they were pulling off R12....and i went out and bought 3 cases of it....had like 72 cans of it in the early-mid 1990's. i was selling $4 cans for $10 to $20. years later.
I’m remembering buying an old beater work truck looked and ran about as well as you’d think a $1K truck would (Cali vehicle so just surface rust) the one thing that really sold me on it was an ice cold R12 AC system I mean jacket on with AC full cold on a 90deg day 🤣. When it came time to sell it on to the next guy I actually sold it for more than what I put into it including original purchase price. Again ice cold AC was the big selling feature, definitely one of the few times I’ve made such a large profit from the sale of a vehicle.
I remember the R-12 A/C in my old Ford Bronco was always super cold. You could practically hang meat in there - even on the hottest summer day! After driving for 2 hours you'd feel the way Frankie Carbone looked in Goodfellas.
Good information. As a former hvac/r tech I understand what is happening but don't agree with the epa. Eric, you are correct . Proper knowledge and training is a key when working on refrigeration systems. The auto parts stores shouldn't even sell the cans that have a hose on it. Most people have no clue what to do except for I watched a video on UA-cam.
Thanks for this. People come into Napa all the time asking for this stuff. Yeah, we sell the 8oz cans. For $45ea. And the little valve that punctures the can for $15. But we don't offer a gauge setup. Just the whole machine for $5700 😂😂
@HairyTheCandyMan I think it's more like: Environmentalist reaction to refrigerant: 1234yf: *nods in approval* R-134a: *faints* R-12: * Runs to the nearest firearm And suck starts it.*
This is the best video by Eric showing the last portion of his video regarding Honda's plagued blowing hot air A/C problems. The condenser's are faulty, they need to be replaced. l purchased a 2016 Honda Civic at Richmond Hill Honda, Ontario Canada, they still won't answer my warranty RE/RE.
so, make sure you have the tools, the money, and be on your game. UV dye and add oil, vacuum the crap out of the system, hold, test for leaks, small charge, check for leaks, and complete the charge, make sure you take your time and balance the system. got it. and yes, every thing about r1234 you're screwed (YF) is expensive including my new rates.
Eric, as someone that works on cars, you should know that the 3 most important things on a vehicle are air conditioning, the radio, and the cup holder. Not much else matters.
@@littlerhino2006 Depends on the owner and whether they drive long distances and/or if they even know how to operate the cruise control. But frankly, I've seen the radio break many times more than the cruise control go out. It's a pretty reliable system, up there with the cup holder I'd say.
I had to purchase a new work van (I do commercial HVAC - also have my 609). All the newer vans have 1234yf. I had to compromise and get a low mileage slightly older van that ran 134a. I want to give it another 5 - 8 years so that the price of 1234yf comes down and the equipment (gauges, recovery machines etc...) become more prevalent and therefore cheaper. Thanks for a good video on this topic.
R-1234yf isn't just a Honda problem either. In the FCA world we are seeing it leak out, a lot. Suction line seals, expansion valve seals, condenser and receiver drier plugs, etc. are now common repairs, which wasn't the case when these same models ran R-134a. Friend of mine at a GM dealer tells me the same thing. For whatever reason, R-1234yf has a way of escaping past any little seal or o-ring that it can. I don't think it was tested well enough before it came to new vehicles. Considering the stupid high cost of this stuff, don't be surprised to see a lot of contaminated AC systems as these vehicles come off warranty and people try backyard repairs.
Yep, ive DIY topped up several 134a AC systems and crossed my fingers. Its a pretty cheap diagnostic tool and most of the time it has fixed it. It didnt work in my Honda (dead compressor), another car lost AC pressure over a few weeks so i left it empty, but had always intended to get a professional to fix it.
wobbly sauce The problem with stop leak is after that you most likely won't be able to get the a/c professionally serviced in the future if need be. At least not without a lot of expense.
@@ETCG1 its not great if it just leaks again, especially for the environment, i'll give you that, but sometimes an amatuers gotta work with what he's got.
@@ScottishFreedomFighter Well, you have the article I linked in the description full of free information on how to diagnose and repair an AC system properly.
I work for Honda. 16 Civics have huge issues with the compressors leaking. Almost 2k repair when out of pocket. The new ac machine makes repair take much longer. Great educational video about the new tech for ac.
I can almost guarantee that you could remove the R1234yf and replace it with R134a. The operating pressures and temperatures are almost identical so the metering device will be unaffected and they both use the same oil.
Its more of a regulation issue that these machines enforce when contamination is detected. If you do the conversion you better be okay with never taking your car to a mechanic to do work on your ac system.
LOL!! just reverse retrofit to Propane{R290a) or IsoButane (R600a);I am sure there is more explosive energy in a tank of regular gas than a few ounces of propane; use nylog on all O-rings and valve fittings to prevent leaks; the amount to fill the system is less than R12 ;R134a. Which politician mandated this change?
I had a TXV system charged with propane, and it blew ice cubes! 33°F vent temps @ 95°F ambient and 75% humidity down South. It worked fantastic in that system, but on a regular orifice tube system, the head pressures got WAY too high for me to be comfortable. My 2 older vehicles were all restored using R12 - one was reverse-retrofitted. Shhhh, don't tell anyone. 😁 Both blow ice cubes up here in the humid Northeast all summer long. Low 40's when rolling, and no higher than 55°F stuck in traffic. I use Nylon on everything - that stuff is fantastic. Liquid snot, lol. 👍
have a r12 system that blew 34 in 100 but got retrofitted for r134 and blew 40 at 100. remove the heater core lines in the summer and the ac blows 28 in 100 weather
We’ll see how this new stuff will hold up in 10-15 years….I suspect leaks and thousands in repair cost will be the outcome….But don’t you know? You “saved” the environment in the process! Bravo!
Someone told me that R134a works just fine in the new systems. He just bought the new connectors for 10 bucks that are different to the old ones and regassed his car and it works 100%.
yeah, change the connectors, flush the lines to get all the oil out, and recharge with the proper oil for the compressor when running 134, and you should be good to go. just dont take it to the dealer for service or they will freak out. lmao
Hey Eric, thanks for the heads up on the new refrigerant story. l recently had my 2016 Honda Civic serviced due to a faulty air conditioning blowing hot air, l was lucky enough to return my Honda to have it fixed before my factory warranty ran out this year in August. The 2016 Honda Civic's in Canada have a problem with the condenser's leaking out refrigerant, I'm looking to investigate with Honda Canada as a Goodwill gesture to extend my warranty for next summer, if in case my a/c doesn't work next summer.
Hey dude, thanks for mentioning hondas had issues with their ac. My aunt was saying her ac wasn't working right and she drives a 2016 civic. After about 20 minutes of research I found the bulletin for the 2016-2019 civics ac compressor shaft seal leak from Honda. Thanks again bro!
Great Video Topic Eric. I Agree AC should be looked at by a professional rather than topping off the system and hoping for the best. There’s a reason why it’s not working correctly and mostly from what I’ve seen this hot season is leaks more so than electrical.
I agree but some of us DIYers can work on the ac. I work on my own cars. But then again only some of us DIYers have the knowledge and experience (2 yrs at an ASE cert ac shop)
new cars don't use r1234yc, it was used for short period of time, not anymore, or at least not where I live, I know gulf spec. cars sometimes use different A/C system. But currently used AC uses co2 for "refrigerant".
They did extend the warranty on some of those Hondas. 1234yf is pretty much the biggest pain in my ass to service. The purity check, the vacuum test, the pressure test, the half charge pressure test, the vacuum cycle again, the 3/4 charge pressure test and the full charge if the system passes all the tests. Roughly about 20-30 minutes in a good scenario.
Everybody wants a quick, easy answer for A/C repair. If you tell them you need a manifold gauge set with the low and high side readings and ambient air temperature to start, they're very disappointed there's actual work involved and not just add a little refrigerant.
The jug of 1234yf is 1000$ per jug. The good part is that the RobinAir system for the new refrigerant is that when you recover it tests it for contamination
Eric, you mentioned that it was $34 for the 8oz canister, but didn't mention how much the 10lb was in comparison (even though you do have to be 609 certified to buy it). I just did a quick look and saw anywhere between $700 and $1800. So even if you have your AC serviced by a professional, it will still cost an arm and a leg to have it serviced compared to R134 A.
I work for a all makes shop and we were the first non dealer to get r1234yf recovery machine and this new refrigerant is very difficult to work with you can have a low charge and pressures look normal and in canada the 10lb bottle shop cost is 800 canadian pesos
I did a motor swap on a 2014 Charger last week. I was going to pull the freon and remove some A/C parts to make the job easier until I saw the funky fittings. I was kind of surprised to see R1234yf in a five year old car. I ended up working around it instead.....
DIYers you really need to pay attention to this video. I am a 609a certified DIYer/semi-professional. Have replaced many systems for my personal self and friends. R1234YF is an an entirely new game and you can get hurt or destroy your system. The presenter is correct, the cost of the refrigerant is prohibitive if you have a leak in your system. Topping your system off is not the answer.
I used to be a mechanic and a guy came in with a bad AC unit, another mechanic said "you can't work on that, you're not certified, I am, so pull it into my bay." (even though I knew a lot about HVAC) I then watch as he bleeds the system straight to air.......yeah, "certified" guys are very important in life, sure. I'll stick to DIY, thanks. :)
It's 1993 all over again. All of these problems faced shops and DIYers when we changed over from R-12 to R-134a. It'll be a few years of difficulty and growing pains for HFO-1234yf, but the market will catch up. It did last time.
KENARDO they’re already looking into phase out what is being called the new refrigerant R1234YF it is just a temporary of refrigerant just like R134 They found out this new refrigerant when exposed to the atmosphere rain and sun makes a plant growth hormone inhibitor
What I heard about this (can't verify it though) is that the patent on 134a ran out, so other companies could produce it. Dupont, who created 134a, didn't like this, since it cut into profits. So, they came up with a new refrigerant, priced it high, and got the government to mandate it. Now profits are back up, and they are the sole provider.
@@rusilver01 havent seen problems with em yet. The 16s are the badd ones. I think they changed the condensers adter that. Also i have a sneaking suspicious that this new refrigerant, or the oil used, is corrosive to aluminum.. they spring holes all over.
We're not having as many problems with civics where we are in sask. Its all the ridgelines,pilots and passports leaking at the subfilter assembly on the condenser
Our brand new R410 residential system seems to cool just as well if not better than the old R22 system. As for R134, it can get pretty icy chill in the car. I don't remember R12 so much but from what I do remember (in grandma's 1980 Oldsmobile) it was also similar!
Here in Canada a 10LB tank of 1234yf costs nearly $1300! Meanwhile a 30lb 134A tank doesn't even cost $200. Personally I'd avoid any new car that uses 1234yf until the prices comes down.
Even when refrigerant prices do come down, it still takes significantly longer to service a 1234yf system which will increase the labor cost of service.
@@ETCG1 Sounds like another Dupont conspiracy, just introduce another gas once their previous patent expires just to increase profits while saying it's environmentally "safer" lol
Bought a new 134a vacuum and guage set from harbor freight, 1234yf can tap and a few adapters and did the ac on our 18 focus after a collision. It can be done but boooyyyyy was it a headache. Anything to do with 1234yf has left hand threads. Good luck.
@@dieselscience no. Can tap for 1234yf came from advanced auto parts as did the coolant. I found the adapters online as well as qd couplers as they are different as well
If I were you, since you had to replace most of the AC stuff anyway due to collision damage, I would have ordered the AC parts for a 15-17 focus which still used 134a. My guess is the compressor, condensor, evaporator, lines, etc are the same, but the pressure switches and TX Valve are different. just simply replace those with the R134a versions from a 2015-17 Focus and recharge the system using the 2015-17 R134a specs... I have a 2018 Focus ST that once the AC dies in it, will be swapped back to 134a.
In R12 era GM's R134A works well. I get 40 degree air at 95 degrees plus. You can't just throw it in though, it needs to be done properly. But it's not hard.
I'm stocking up on r134a and I drive old cars anyway. By the time I have to worry about R1234YF it will be obsolete anyway and there will be plenty of DIY alternatives.
@@AmandaHugenkiss2915 Yeah it's not too bad but I'm curious as to how the R1234yf works. Is it better than 134a, worse or the same. The only complaint I have about 134a is when you're driving in town and in stop and go traffic, it doesn't keep up as where on the highway with the rpms up, it works good. Just takes forever to get there.
Generally if you use proper orifice tube or expansion valve and have large enough condenser and fan conversions work fine. I even converted a POA/STVsustem and with no fan would put out 39°F out vents driving down road, off max AC in my 71 Monte Carlo. Also according to A/C engineers I talked to R1234YF can be retrofitted to R134A it's just not "legal"
@@Elvis4240 That's about right for a 30lb can. I haven't seen it in the small DIY cans yet, and shelves of the R134A are empty as well, but the price has gone up.
Place I work also has a body shop. We recently got a new Rq234yf machine. Only had to use it a few times so far. Yes the big cans are pretty expensive but we didn't need any special licences to buy one.
I have a 05 Blazer I own hand tools and a 20 gal compressor Airtools from A to Z Done a full paint job right down to wetsand and polish replaced a heater core Done a proper 2.5 lift kit Full brakes and lines Fuel lines etc etc Only thing i have never done is a A/C unit If i had a few bucks and didn't bother to read my Haynes manual or look online for the most info on doing DIY my first guess would be grabbing refridgerant with dye But knowing the Truck is 15 years old Really I need to break down everything that would be common and go from there
ive been using r152a in my cars for a bit now and it performs very well get ice cold a/c and there's hardly any noticeable power consumption using it as there was with r134a. yes its air duster. i dont know if it would work with r1234yf but it works great in r134a and r12 systems
… and it’s legal to vent because it’s a propellant. Ironically, you can buy fellows cans of air duster with 1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane also known as HFC-134a. Perfectly legal to vent as a propellant not as a refrigerant
I remember when r134a came out. It was impossible to get in auto parts stores and was stupid expensive if anybody did carry it. And now it’s not. Same thing here.
rogermurph101 I remember the switchover when I bought my first 30 pound jug of our 134 back in 1990is about $300 and that would be equivalent to about $1000 plus now
1234yF or as we liked to call it when we were mandated to start designing for it...1-2-3-4 You're F'd. The expense of moving to this refrigerant isn't just the cost of the stuff (which is RIDICULOUSLY expensive for what it is, but welcome to government control where). This stuff also requires changes to the AC System design itself. The seals that worked for R12, R134a disintigrate under this stuff. That's Honda's issue...they didn't change eveything they needed to. We had to move from Dual Slim Line (DSL) to MSF (Metal Seal Fitting) with an entirely new o-ring design. The stuff is so expensive that we went from a 10 year leak down to 15 year leak down rating. Others are still at 7 to 10 year max. This stuff is adding a couple hundred bucks to your vehicle costs at minimum...have fun with that government mandate...BTW, they are just here to help...
I deal with flammable refrigerants in refrigeration systems... to service I have to vent it, then purge nitrogen through it before repairing the system
I can attest to the Honda 1234yf system. I personally owned a 2017 civic EX off the floor with 0 miles, and the ac system was out of refrigerant after 20k miles with no apparent leak after testing. Even a two day follow up with dye revealed no leaks. The most bizarre thing man… both me and the technician were stumped. Never had a problem since, and it’s pushing 100k miles.
Great video, especially relevant to newer Honda owners with the new R-1234yf system. I'm currently leasing a 2017 Civic Sport 1.5L turbo with dead AC. I took it slightly past the 36K warranty when the AC started to fade. They told me at Venice Honda (FL) that the compressor had gone bad, but I would have to pay ~$1700 to replace the condenser (or vice versa, sorry) or they could not fix either. One part was on a recall, but the other was out of warranty range, so I was out of luck. Honda owns the car, but still refuses to fix it. It's a great car otherwise and I was definitely going to buy it after the lease expired, but just have to walk away. It was a nice break not having to turn a wrench for a few years, but it's back to an old truck for me. What a shame, hope this helps.
@@edmondlau511 Funny enough, a can of AC stop leak fixed the problem, at least temporarily. I can't recall the brand, but it was a complete success on the cheap. I'd gone way over on mileage by lease end, so I got stuck trading it in for a new lease to avoid fees. The 2020 Honda CRV has been perfect, though in hindsight I should have gone with AWD. One more year and I'll finally be back in a fun V8 truck.
@@nickstej I ended up putting a can of 1234yf in on Sunday and it's held up over a 600 road trip from central to west Texas in some hot temperatures. Hope it can hold for a few months at a time.
@@edmondlau511 That's great news, glad it worked for you. The AC charge on my Civic lasted about a year and was still blowing cold air when I turned it in. Here's hoping you have the same luck.
It's really a bummer for someone like me. I'm a professional mechanic who works out of his garage (taking care of a relative full time). I am very capable of fixing an ac system but no chance I can afford to buy the equipment to service these new systems.
Do RC if you work on AC and you cannot afford the equipment then you are charging the wrong price the cost of traveling around flying yourself out to seminars to training from the manufacturers the cost of the new equipment your supplies the cost of replacement equipment is not cheap if you are charging the wrong price he will never be able to afford to keep up with the repair industry raise your prices so you can take care of your customers
Found this out too when my sister 2017 civic ac freon was low. Then tried to see if I can "fill" it then saw the price and said "is it still under warranty?" Lol when I typed this u just said it about the Hondas lol 5:34
Cool As a DIYer I would have more confidence in pulling my engine, and rebuilding said engine myself instead of messing around with my car's A/C. Besides in the Northeast we kinda can live without A/C.
you have been brainwashed by the global warming conspiracy. AC work is extremely simple, as it is a very simple system with only a few parts to do any work. r134a is the same shit they sell in canned air and air horns. Dont be scared of it.
It's all about the high GWP (Global Warming Potential) of an HFC like R134a. We moved from R-12 because it was a CFC (the first C being Chlorine... bad for the ozone layer). If they eliminated the recovery requirements for R1234yf (since it doesn't warm the planet), then that would be a good thing. But I don't see them eliminating those requirements since that would be good for the DIY market.
sully676 it Hass to go through a contamination check every time because were starting to see a lot of contaminated refrigerant because of idiots trying to stick in different refrigerants that are cheaper into the system. So when it comes to your shop if you don’t check it you contaminate your whole jug of refrigerant and it becomes no good how many thousands of dollars of our1234YF become bad just because you recover one bad car with contaminated refrigerant.
It's really a pain to deal with. The whole procedure is waaaay longer. It used to be only the 2019 RDX with R1234yf, but now a lot of the new MDX vehicles have it. Another thing I've noticed is the receiver pipe between the TXV and condenser is now a part of the suction tube on some vehicles. The liquid refrigerant has a chamber that's welded around the suction tube where it flows through. They're obviously still separated, but it's all one part now up until it splits again. I'm an Acura dealer tech (aka Hondas with more leather) and we are not experiencing what you spoke about the Honda failures. I'm curious, what component is failing? I haven't seen anything A/C related with a high failure rate.
Why do you use the automated recovery machines? Seems dumb to me to pay all that money for an automated machine that takes forever and interrogates you about what you are doing. Just replace it with a vacum pump and a digital scale. You can't tell me the average auto tech doesn't know how to run a vacum pump and charge a refrigeration system?
I did have 97 Buick with over 260,000 miles had week or no ac depending on the day. Looked over the accumulater and lines for condensation to see if anything was cold, only the lines were cold. Being a high milage car I gave it a shot couldn't hurt to try and it did help for 2 seasons then got week again wasn't worth dumping anymore cash into it. My take away is if it's not blowing cold air there's usually a reason and if your going to fix it minus well do the entire system so it covered under warrenty. Here's a rant for you Have you played any warrenty games😅 Buy cheap without warrenty and it doesn't last. Buy better quality and it to doesn't last either. Spin the wheel and try your luck see how long you can go on a cheap buck😅
So let me get this straight 1234yf is flammable, as is propane, as is R-12 with an oil charge. But you are somehow afraid of twelve ounces of propane but you are not afraid of 16 gallons of gasoline. Thanks, I'll use propane and stay cool.
The major knock to DIY repair were the full warranties sold on new vehicles, limiting experience by general professionals until a vehicle is 5 years old. The DIY crowd have been able to keep up with technical innovations through the years, but the new phase shift to electric vehicles will be a challenge.
Kathy Porter google is listening to you. All the alphabet companies are. And more beyond those as well. Turn your phone off- fully power it down- when you’re not using it.
I've been told that 1234 is also highly corrosive. Local Honda dealer got several truck loads of new cars and the 1234 had all leaked out due to to corrosion
I have four vehicles that are at least ten years old and the A/C works in all of them. I replaced the compressor and lines in my 26 year old truck a couple years ago. If one of my vehicles breaks down, I take another vehicle to work and I fix the broken vehicle on the weekends. So far, it has worked well for me. I would sell the truck but the best offer I received was $1800. The truck still runs great and the A/C is cold so I'm not selling it for peanuts.
Manufacturers don't want people to know this, but 134a is actually a slightly better performing refrigerant and is compatible with the oils used with 1234YF, so you CAN have the system recovered and recharge it with 134a. My buddy did that on his Jeep after the condenser failed and leaked all the expensive 1234YF out. He said the system works better than new, it cools off faster and gets colder at idle. Presuming the conversion is done properly, the compressor should last longer too since 134a carries oil better than 1234YF. However, converting from 1234YF to 134a is probably illegal and can cause contamination issues if someone works on the system without knowing that it has been converted, so I can't recommend that people do this. If you choose to convert to 134a anyways, please clearly label the system as being converted to save the next person who services it the headache.
Thank you Eric for this informative video Point missing I would like mention it The oil should be added in system is different than 134a fereon Example/ Denso clutch type reciprocating compressor use ND oil 8 equivalent to PAG 46 with 134a refrigerant While same type compressor use ND oil 12 higher specs than PAG 46 for 1234rf refrigerant
When the stock compressor goes bad, just retrofit an R-134a compressor into the vehicle, vacuum out the system, fill with R-134a, and enjoy. I have done a similar retrofit with vehicles with bad R-12 compressors. I just get an R-134a compressor and retro fit it into the vehicle that originally had the R-12 system, vacuum, fill, and enjoy. The evaporators, driers, orifice, tubes, will all work just fine with a retrofitted compressor.
Indrid Cold and the difference in efficiency between r-12 and 134 causes you no problems? Or you just blame it on the new 134 not being as good but actually being available?
as of yet from the trainings that i have had for the new refrigerant , there are no available retrofits for 1234yf into older cars that are r134a , the new machines are coming down in price from around 6k and up , and depending on what area in the country you are in small cans of 1234yf are not available for purchase by diy people , we have not purchased a machine yet we will have to this year as we are sending away too many cars that we cant service .
Well, I don't agree. It's been my experience over the many years I've been DIY'ing cars and trucks that over time the cost to DIY the system will come down. I recall years ago when disk brakes, then ABS systems were installed to vehicles and the same kind of resistance was put forth, mostly by tradespeople/mechanics. Then later it was the "computerized" vehicles that were too difficult to work on and over the head of DIY'ers. All came to pass and DIY'ers actively work on these systems. There's a bit of snobbery involved here. I'm a DIY'er that has NO certification but have installed several home a/c systems, own a couple vacuum pumps, gauges, a couple 30 pounders of R22 bought from Craigslist and several 30lbs of R410. Give it a couple years, or less, and I guarantee that you'll find this stuff being sold on Craigslist. Pulling a vacuum on a system and then performing a leak down test is mandatory on central air systems so I'm not sure why you would say that's an 'additional' step. I also use nitrogen to charge the system to verify for leaks. You should be doing these things in an R134 systems too. Never underestimate the skills of a DIY'er. I have another channel, Kaydee457 with a couple thousand followers and you can visit there to see my installs. If I can do it, then anyone can do it....
abochavez neither, car companies have look at emissions for the whole vehicle, not just the tail pipe. R12 was not a clean chemical. R134a was better but had a “lifespan” of use. Just as tail pipe emissions get a little tighter every year, so do other parts of the vehicle. It is no better or worse than R134a, just cleaner if it gets into the air. If you worked in the automotive industry in the last 15 years you would have heard that this was coming. Now it is being rolled out. As with everything new it is priced high, after a few years and it becomes more the norm it will drop in price and not be a big deal.
As a fleet manager, I had to purchase new machines, refrigerant which is four times more expensive and a recharge process that takes twice as long. Not to mention having to train my techs.
Nice job EPA, keep giving it to the little guy.
your lucky...it means you can charge your cx four times the cost of repairs.....lmao
That's what they do best.
@@mikeb1617 immediately removed the 1234yf and replaced it with 134a, 42 deg at the vents at idle been running a little 60k miles with it no problems
You just answered all of the questions I had about my Honda.
Just a little FYI: Iso-Butane is a better refrigerant than Propane. But, like you said, flammable. Now, consider that your A/C system is a closed loop. And, barring a catastrophic accident, will not start a fire. Unlike the movies, compressed Propane will not explode when punctured by anything. Even if a flame is present - no explosion - just a rush of flame and them - out.
Just recently there was a car accident with a van that had the refrigerant replaced with propane, the firefighters had trouble trying to extinguish the car because of it... The fuel is the only highly flameable medium I accept to keep in my car
@@tomboxyz5564 Yep - I have read stories like that and they all have been debunked. An A/C system charged with Butane will spew for about 15 seconds before stopping. If the fire Dept had a problem extinguishing the blaze, it was not the fault of the Butane
It’s not a rush of flame, butane and propane expand rapidly when released from the pressurised closed loop system, test archive footage ua-cam.com/video/FO47SzxJmV0/v-deo.htmlsi=qfivze0UT6f1ibI_
I can say it's been a real challenge and quite the education dealing with the new refrigerant. Takes me almost an hour to properly charge a system now. And yes I am bouncing back and forth between 2 bays just to make time and money.
Your response has peaked my curiosity here 😂
What is taking longer?
1. Fittings or hooking up the manifold hoses.
2. Vacuum process.
3. Charging (still by weight)
4. Verifying correct operation.
I’m wanting to remove the refrigerant and as much oil as possible and then re-add accordingly.
What say you?
ThankYou
Yet another reason why I do not want a new vehicle
new cars don't use r1234yc, it was used for short period of time, not anymore, or at least not where I live, I know gulf spec. cars sometimes use different A/C system. But currently used AC uses co2 for "refrigerant".
@@evlo8059 Good to know
@@3rdworldgarage450 that is why you Yank that motor transmission and computer with wiring harness out and throw it away and put in something that really does work old school baby
My 1989 truck with original R12 AC has been running for two years now on R152A (air duster). Cold as ice and $2.00 a can.
Ed Burns haven’t heard of that trick
Duc Rider Thank you for all that great information but you may want to check that math at the end of your post.
Works great in r134a systems also. Lower head pressure, so easier on the whole system.
I thought about doing that.
I knew an old AC Tech drove an old school bus around the to fix people's air conditioners use propane that air conditioner on a school bus
I remember when 134a came out and a can of it was uber expensive. I think the more vehicles that use it the price will come down. And I also remember all fear the manufacturers put out about how you can't do this or that or you'll ruin you a/c and it ended up being b.s. I just wonder who is behind this new refrigerant because I don't see why the need to change other than some huge Corp making huge amounts of money and making it even harder for independent shops to make it!!
I trained as an automotive service technician back when R 12 was being phased out in favor of R134a. This new change seems a lot like planned obsolescence . I became an engine builder . So I have not done much work on AC systems unless it was a car I was trying to sell . My one personal project truck that I did put air conditioning on didn't come from the factory with it . So I installed a classic air system . It actually cost me about the same money to install AC as It did to make the 5.7 liter Hemi run in a 1978 dodge Powerwagon .
Eric your spot on correct about the stack of condensers that need to be delivered to every dealership in North America. thanks for sharing this information on UA-cam for all Honda passenger vehicle drivers.
I bought 3 case's of r12 back in 92 when i was 17 fir no other reason but to just have it. I still have 89 mustang that uses it. And still have 30 of those cans in the garage. Now that the 1234yf is out I've started buying 134 at Wal-Mart just to have. So far I'm up to around 4 cases. It's like ammo I just keep buying it.
Just change the compressor out with an R-134a compressor after the compressor goes bad. vacuum the system, fill with R-134a, and you have air conditioning. I have done this with several R-12 equipped vehicles that lost their compressors to age. I just went to the salvage yard, got a compressor used with R-134a, vacuum, and fill.
Legal issues aside 1234yf and 134a run at nearly the same pressures (by design) and use the same lubricants (by design). You can recharge a 1234yf with 134a without issue in nearly all cases. There are some oil compatibility issues that could come up as they aren't identical chemically so it isn't zero risk but by and large the two refrigerants are interchangeable in practice, you just need to find the right fittings. And if you are worried about oil compatibility just buy some 1234yf oil and add it in. The reason 1234yf is so expensive is that certain companies in the chemical industry lobbied to get their proprietary refrigerants approved since the 134a patent expired instead of an 'open source' type of refrigerant of which there were many options. In short, yes, you can absolutely service 1234yf systems for cheap. It isn't legal, though nothing really is these days and you won't ever get prosecuted for it unless you do it commercially.
I have a 2016 Honda Civic that uses 1234yf. So, can I top it off with R134a with the right fittings?
@@mtsanchez27 NO.
You need to evacuate the system 1st, then add the R134 and oil.
Could not have said it better, it's dirty politics. (Dem and GOP both) Lobby to change laws after they invest in the company who makes R1234rf
@@mtsanchez27 You can use r134a, but like he said above, you have to vacuum out all the refrigerant and moisture before recharging with r134a.
@@kassemadam3005 thank you
They keep changing the refrigerant required, keeping the cost up.
Thought it was because of environmental damage.
@@michaelsolis9891 That is what will be claimed. The R-12 of days gone by did cause ozone damage in the upper atmosphere. But the R-134a does not have that issue. Whenever govenement agencies can get away with abusing power, they will do it.
@@indridcold8433 that's a shame...
The old R22 is expensive, the new replacement 410A is not.
@@southernstyle8835 The R-134a is really affordable also.
One of my Co-workers works at a stealership. He told me that it takes about an hour to evacuate a 1234yf system versus 10-15 mins for a 134a.
It can take about 8 seconds if you just pull one of the valves
@@jcortes3930 Yeah, but he likes his job and doesn't want to get fired for not going "by the book", LOL!
Evacuate the system, let it sat for a while, see if it holds vacuum, add a little freon, check for leaks,, if no leaks are found, completely recharge the system, that’s standard procedure for all a/c systems, regardless of freon type,
You forgot pressurize with nitrogen and spray connections with soap bubbles first..then pull a vacuum(with a proper micron gauge). If no bubbles no troubles..and if vacuum pulled and sitting ( not vacuum pumump running) below 400microns then system should be tight. I pull all my systems ( cars to 300ton equipment to standing 200microns and below.
I remember having to take a test to get an "R-12 card" back in the day. Then the R-12 was so expensive I was better off converting my vehicles to R-134a. They'll probably pull the same thing with R-134a. Thanks EU...
i heard they were pulling off R12....and i went out and bought 3 cases of it....had like 72 cans of it in the early-mid 1990's. i was selling $4 cans for $10 to $20. years later.
I’m remembering buying an old beater work truck looked and ran about as well as you’d think a $1K truck would (Cali vehicle so just surface rust) the one thing that really sold me on it was an ice cold R12 AC system I mean jacket on with AC full cold on a 90deg day 🤣. When it came time to sell it on to the next guy I actually sold it for more than what I put into it including original purchase price. Again ice cold AC was the big selling feature, definitely one of the few times I’ve made such a large profit from the sale of a vehicle.
I remember the R-12 A/C in my old Ford Bronco was always super cold. You could practically hang meat in there - even on the hottest summer day! After driving for 2 hours you'd feel the way Frankie Carbone looked in Goodfellas.
A friend of mine had an old FoxBody Mustang, with an A/C system like that. It could be 96 degrees and humid out - but practically SNOW inside!!!
Good information. As a former hvac/r tech I understand what is happening but don't agree with the epa. Eric, you are correct . Proper knowledge and training is a key when working on refrigeration systems. The auto parts stores shouldn't even sell the cans that have a hose on it. Most people have no clue what to do except for I watched a video on UA-cam.
Thanks for this. People come into Napa all the time asking for this stuff. Yeah, we sell the 8oz cans. For $45ea. And the little valve that punctures the can for $15. But we don't offer a gauge setup. Just the whole machine for $5700 😂😂
no worries....gauge set-up will be coming from China for $11. on E-Bay soon enough.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
interesting. i just had a customer call in asking me about this, and i had no idea what he was talking about. good to know, time to do more research
Happy to help. Thanks for the comment.
Every newfangled thing that comes out on cars these days, the longer my chevy truck is gonna stay on the road.
R-1234yf: *helps environment*
R-134a: *screams*
Freon: *screams*
@HairyTheCandyMan I think it's more like:
Environmentalist reaction to refrigerant:
1234yf: *nods in approval*
R-134a: *faints*
R-12: * Runs to the nearest firearm And suck starts it.*
😂😂😂@@watcher206
This is the best video by Eric showing the last portion of his video regarding Honda's plagued blowing hot air A/C problems. The condenser's are faulty, they need to be replaced. l purchased a 2016 Honda Civic at Richmond Hill Honda, Ontario Canada, they still won't answer my warranty RE/RE.
"Whatever it is that you have that sweats" Priceless Eric, thanks for sharing,
Cheers
You now have to make room for the non-binary people and the alphabet people whenever you speak of gender on UA-cam.
One left testicle and one right double-D organ.
so, make sure you have the tools, the money, and be on your game. UV dye and add oil, vacuum the crap out of the system, hold, test for leaks, small charge, check for leaks, and complete the charge, make sure you take your time and balance the system. got it. and yes, every thing about r1234 you're screwed (YF) is expensive including my new rates.
Eric, as someone that works on cars, you should know that the 3 most important things on a vehicle are air conditioning, the radio, and the cup holder. Not much else matters.
Cruise control?
@@littlerhino2006 Depends on the owner and whether they drive long distances and/or if they even know how to operate the cruise control. But frankly, I've seen the radio break many times more than the cruise control go out. It's a pretty reliable system, up there with the cup holder I'd say.
car weight
I had to purchase a new work van (I do commercial HVAC - also have my 609). All the newer vans have 1234yf. I had to compromise and get a low mileage slightly older van that ran 134a. I want to give it another 5 - 8 years so that the price of 1234yf comes down and the equipment (gauges, recovery machines etc...) become more prevalent and therefore cheaper. Thanks for a good video on this topic.
If you have Testo or Field piece gauges it's as simple as a download to add the data into them.
R-1234yf isn't just a Honda problem either. In the FCA world we are seeing it leak out, a lot. Suction line seals, expansion valve seals, condenser and receiver drier plugs, etc. are now common repairs, which wasn't the case when these same models ran R-134a. Friend of mine at a GM dealer tells me the same thing. For whatever reason, R-1234yf has a way of escaping past any little seal or o-ring that it can. I don't think it was tested well enough before it came to new vehicles. Considering the stupid high cost of this stuff, don't be surprised to see a lot of contaminated AC systems as these vehicles come off warranty and people try backyard repairs.
a back yard repair is putting in a old 134a system in to the newer suv
"backyard" your in the wrong space bud
Yep, ive DIY topped up several 134a AC systems and crossed my fingers. Its a pretty cheap diagnostic tool and most of the time it has fixed it. It didnt work in my Honda (dead compressor), another car lost AC pressure over a few weeks so i left it empty, but had always intended to get a professional to fix it.
Stuff with the leak stop is all most need... if it can't, you have other problems anyway.
wobbly sauce The problem with stop leak is after that you most likely won't be able to get the a/c professionally serviced in the future if need be. At least not without a lot of expense.
I'm not a fan of this type of diagnosis.
@@ETCG1 its not great if it just leaks again, especially for the environment, i'll give you that, but sometimes an amatuers gotta work with what he's got.
@@ScottishFreedomFighter Well, you have the article I linked in the description full of free information on how to diagnose and repair an AC system properly.
I work for Honda. 16 Civics have huge issues with the compressors leaking. Almost 2k repair when out of pocket. The new ac machine makes repair take much longer. Great educational video about the new tech for ac.
Thanks for the info!
STP needs to get on this quick A/C Pro the 1234yf version :-)
I can almost guarantee that you could remove the R1234yf and replace it with R134a. The operating pressures and temperatures are almost identical so the metering device will be unaffected and they both use the same oil.
Its more of a regulation issue that these machines enforce when contamination is detected. If you do the conversion you better be okay with never taking your car to a mechanic to do work on your ac system.
Wanting to chat with someone who’s actually made the change back to 134A.
Anyone?
@@smokeysmith1282 I have done it and have ran my ac for 2 years now with no issues. Feel free to send any questions.
LOL!! just reverse retrofit to Propane{R290a) or IsoButane (R600a);I am sure there is more explosive energy in a tank of regular gas than a few ounces of propane; use nylog on all O-rings and valve fittings to prevent leaks; the amount to fill the system is less than R12 ;R134a.
Which politician mandated this change?
California no doubt
I had a TXV system charged with propane, and it blew ice cubes! 33°F vent temps @ 95°F ambient and 75% humidity down South. It worked fantastic in that system, but on a regular orifice tube system, the head pressures got WAY too high for me to be comfortable. My 2 older vehicles were all restored using R12 - one was reverse-retrofitted. Shhhh, don't tell anyone. 😁 Both blow ice cubes up here in the humid Northeast all summer long. Low 40's when rolling, and no higher than 55°F stuck in traffic.
I use Nylon on everything - that stuff is fantastic. Liquid snot, lol. 👍
have a r12 system that blew 34 in 100 but got retrofitted for r134 and blew 40 at 100. remove the heater core lines in the summer and the ac blows 28 in 100 weather
probably one of those retarded ass communist democrats. #MAGA
@@SmittySmithsonite - I just bought a bottle of that Nylog. I hear that it's great stuff.
The worst part in an automotive shop is that customers are going to freak out when they see the receipt for a a/c charge
They be like why so much
We’ll see how this new stuff will hold up in 10-15 years….I suspect leaks and thousands in repair cost will be the outcome….But don’t you know? You “saved” the environment in the process! Bravo!
Off topic here, but humans can never save a planet that the Bible says that due to human sin, God is gonna destroy the planet by fire 🔥. 😂
I replaced my whole A/C system for 450 dollar.
Of course I have to learn everything about A/C system.
But it was worth it.
Jiri Zhanel I did the same 6 years ago.
Someone told me that R134a works just fine in the new systems. He just bought the new connectors for 10 bucks that are different to the old ones and regassed his car and it works 100%.
yeah, change the connectors, flush the lines to get all the oil out, and recharge with the proper oil for the compressor when running 134, and you should be good to go.
just dont take it to the dealer for service or they will freak out. lmao
Hey Eric, thanks for the heads up on the new refrigerant story. l recently had my 2016 Honda Civic serviced due to a faulty air conditioning blowing hot air, l was lucky enough to return my Honda to have it fixed before my factory warranty ran out this year in August. The 2016 Honda Civic's in Canada have a problem with the condenser's leaking out refrigerant, I'm looking to investigate with Honda Canada as a Goodwill gesture to extend my warranty for next summer, if in case my a/c doesn't work next summer.
Hey dude, thanks for mentioning hondas had issues with their ac. My aunt was saying her ac wasn't working right and she drives a 2016 civic. After about 20 minutes of research I found the bulletin for the 2016-2019 civics ac compressor shaft seal leak from Honda. Thanks again bro!
Great Video Topic Eric. I Agree AC should be looked at by a professional rather than topping off the system and hoping for the best. There’s a reason why it’s not working correctly and mostly from what I’ve seen this hot season is leaks more so than electrical.
I totally agree.
Justin Dow I topped mine off and hoped for the best lol
i enjoy watching the idiots put the can on the high pressure line and explode the bottle next to their head!
@@Andy47357 what?
I agree but some of us DIYers can work on the ac. I work on my own cars. But then again only some of us DIYers have the knowledge and experience (2 yrs at an ASE cert ac shop)
Guess I just won't buy a new car... That simple.
Same here
better stock up on r134 then because it’s going to end up like r12 did. you got to go to mexico for the propane mixed r12
@@Andy47357 If there continues to be a market for it, it will continue to be made. Plain and simple.
new cars don't use r1234yc, it was used for short period of time, not anymore, or at least not where I live, I know gulf spec. cars sometimes use different A/C system. But currently used AC uses co2 for "refrigerant".
@@evlo8059 R744 aka CO2 is used ;just a higher pressure system;so all the componentes have to be re engineered
My main man Eric. Another one out of the ballpark.
They did extend the warranty on some of those Hondas. 1234yf is pretty much the biggest pain in my ass to service. The purity check, the vacuum test, the pressure test, the half charge pressure test, the vacuum cycle again, the 3/4 charge pressure test and the full charge if the system passes all the tests. Roughly about 20-30 minutes in a good scenario.
Everybody wants a quick, easy answer for A/C repair. If you tell them you need a manifold gauge set with the low and high side readings and ambient air temperature to start, they're very disappointed there's actual work involved and not just add a little refrigerant.
Truth.
The jug of 1234yf is 1000$ per jug. The good part is that the RobinAir system for the new refrigerant is that when you recover it tests it for contamination
Eric, you mentioned that it was $34 for the 8oz canister, but didn't mention how much the 10lb was in comparison (even though you do have to be 609 certified to buy it).
I just did a quick look and saw anywhere between $700 and $1800. So even if you have your AC serviced by a professional, it will still cost an arm and a leg to have it serviced compared to R134 A.
Shit I saw one for $2400 and this is 4 years later. lol
I work for a all makes shop and we were the first non dealer to get r1234yf recovery machine and this new refrigerant is very difficult to work with you can have a low charge and pressures look normal and in canada the 10lb bottle shop cost is 800 canadian pesos
Thank you for that info.
Tracty Zadorozny you’re lucky it’s so cheap now when I first started buying 10 pound containers they were well over $1500. $800 is almost half price
I did a motor swap on a 2014 Charger last week. I was going to pull the freon and remove some A/C parts to make the job easier until I saw the funky fittings. I was kind of surprised to see R1234yf in a five year old car. I ended up working around it instead.....
DIYers you really need to pay attention to this video. I am a 609a certified DIYer/semi-professional. Have replaced many systems for my personal self and friends. R1234YF is an an entirely new game and you can get hurt or destroy your system. The presenter is correct, the cost of the refrigerant is prohibitive if you have a leak in your system. Topping your system off is not the answer.
I used to be a mechanic and a guy came in with a bad AC unit, another mechanic said "you can't work on that, you're not certified, I am, so pull it into my bay." (even though I knew a lot about HVAC) I then watch as he bleeds the system straight to air.......yeah, "certified" guys are very important in life, sure. I'll stick to DIY, thanks. :)
Ugh. Goverment regulations. "Let's make this new refrigerant difficult to obtain by most people and super expesive! Yeah!"
1234 YF. Does the YF stand for 'Yellow Flame' or ' Your Fucked' ?
At 100USD/lb, I think we know the answer.
The answer to this question is on the floor. You will need to bend over to read it .
Don't you mean you're fucked???? Dummy
Jamie Carter,
Guess its settled then.
YF stands for "You Fool".
@@obviouslytwo4u I can't stand people who think they are a sworn officer of the grammar police.
It's 1993 all over again. All of these problems faced shops and DIYers when we changed over from R-12 to R-134a. It'll be a few years of difficulty and growing pains for HFO-1234yf, but the market will catch up. It did last time.
I agree, but it's the service time of R1234yf that wasn't a part of the last evolution. The only thing that changed last time was the refrigerant.
KENARDO they’re already looking into phase out what is being called the new refrigerant R1234YF it is just a temporary of refrigerant just like R134 They found out this new refrigerant when exposed to the atmosphere rain and sun makes a plant growth hormone inhibitor
Woo! It *is* my birthday today!
Thanks Eric
Happy Birthday!
Happy Birthday to you!
alexaescht mine too😉
What I heard about this (can't verify it though) is that the patent on 134a ran out, so other companies could produce it. Dupont, who created 134a, didn't like this, since it cut into profits. So, they came up with a new refrigerant, priced it high, and got the government to mandate it. Now profits are back up, and they are the sole provider.
I heard this as well
Maybe that's true, but R1234yf is better for the environment than 134a.
Condensers on the new civics... rip. We've replaced a solid 20 in the last week. Only like 5 under warranty.
Are the 2019 models any better? I just bought a '19 Si.
@@rusilver01 havent seen problems with em yet. The 16s are the badd ones. I think they changed the condensers adter that. Also i have a sneaking suspicious that this new refrigerant, or the oil used, is corrosive to aluminum.. they spring holes all over.
We're not having as many problems with civics where we are in sask. Its all the ridgelines,pilots and passports leaking at the subfilter assembly on the condenser
GiggleFactory 2018 Accords have that r1234yf as well i checked the records at my work.
@@nighthawkj30A4 yeah. So do the pilots and ridgelines.
Our brand new R410 residential system seems to cool just as well if not better than the old R22 system.
As for R134, it can get pretty icy chill in the car. I don't remember R12 so much but from what I do remember (in grandma's 1980 Oldsmobile) it was also similar!
Actually, the evacuate - test - charge - test method is what we did before refrigerant recovery was required by the EPA.
Yea the temptation to convert to propane is growing. Boooom!
Here in Canada a 10LB tank of 1234yf costs nearly $1300! Meanwhile a 30lb 134A tank doesn't even cost $200. Personally I'd avoid any new car that uses 1234yf until the prices comes down.
Even when refrigerant prices do come down, it still takes significantly longer to service a 1234yf system which will increase the labor cost of service.
@@ETCG1 Sounds like another Dupont conspiracy, just introduce another gas once their previous patent expires just to increase profits while saying it's environmentally "safer" lol
Bought a new 134a vacuum and guage set from harbor freight, 1234yf can tap and a few adapters and did the ac on our 18 focus after a collision. It can be done but boooyyyyy was it a headache. Anything to do with 1234yf has left hand threads. Good luck.
Did Harbor Freight (horror freight) have the adapters?
@@dieselscience no. Can tap for 1234yf came from advanced auto parts as did the coolant. I found the adapters online as well as qd couplers as they are different as well
@@mike201488 thanks...
If I were you, since you had to replace most of the AC stuff anyway due to collision damage, I would have ordered the AC parts for a 15-17 focus which still used 134a. My guess is the compressor, condensor, evaporator, lines, etc are the same, but the pressure switches and TX Valve are different. just simply replace those with the R134a versions from a 2015-17 Focus and recharge the system using the 2015-17 R134a specs... I have a 2018 Focus ST that once the AC dies in it, will be swapped back to 134a.
I'm curious to how this new stuff performs. Going from R12 to R134a was a huge let down.
it is awesome imo
In R12 era GM's R134A works well. I get 40 degree air at 95 degrees plus. You can't just throw it in though, it needs to be done properly. But it's not hard.
I'm stocking up on r134a and I drive old cars anyway. By the time I have to worry about R1234YF it will be obsolete anyway and there will be plenty of DIY alternatives.
@@AmandaHugenkiss2915 Yeah it's not too bad but I'm curious as to how the R1234yf works. Is it better than 134a, worse or the same. The only complaint I have about 134a is when you're driving in town and in stop and go traffic, it doesn't keep up as where on the highway with the rpms up, it works good. Just takes forever to get there.
Generally if you use proper orifice tube or expansion valve and have large enough condenser and fan conversions work fine.
I even converted a POA/STVsustem and with no fan would put out 39°F out vents driving down road, off max AC in my 71 Monte Carlo.
Also according to A/C engineers I talked to R1234YF can be retrofitted to R134A it's just not "legal"
I remember when R134A canisters were $30+ for a can, so given the R1234yf is so new it'll be a matter of time before its $20 or less a can.
Paid 165 for a can yesterday 2yrs later
@@Elvis4240 That's about right for a 30lb can. I haven't seen it in the small DIY cans yet, and shelves of the R134A are empty as well, but the price has gone up.
@@wildbill23c 10lb bottles of r1234yf cost about $500.
i knew a guy that had a shop. his buddy had a shop less than 100 ft away. but the EPA made both shops have there own machines.
Probably got a kick back from the company that made the machines.Big government ,rotten .
I’ve used propane based refrigerants in many of my cars. Works really well.
Place I work also has a body shop. We recently got a new Rq234yf machine. Only had to use it a few times so far. Yes the big cans are pretty expensive but we didn't need any special licences to buy one.
I have a 05 Blazer I own hand tools and a 20 gal compressor Airtools from A to Z Done a full paint job right down to wetsand and polish replaced a heater core Done a proper 2.5 lift kit
Full brakes and lines Fuel lines etc etc Only thing i have never done is a A/C unit If i had a few bucks and didn't bother to read my Haynes manual or look online for the most info on doing DIY my first guess would be grabbing refridgerant with dye But knowing the Truck is 15 years old Really I need to break down everything that would be common and go from there
ive been using r152a in my cars for a bit now and it performs very well get ice cold a/c and there's hardly any noticeable power consumption using it as there was with r134a. yes its air duster. i dont know if it would work with r1234yf but it works great in r134a and r12 systems
I believe you those air duster cans get ice cold
We will soon find out! People aren't going to pay for 1234YF, so they WILL find alternatives.
… and it’s legal to vent because it’s a propellant. Ironically, you can buy fellows cans of air duster with 1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane also known as HFC-134a. Perfectly legal to vent as a propellant not as a refrigerant
I remember when r134a came out. It was impossible to get in auto parts stores and was stupid expensive if anybody did carry it. And now it’s not. Same thing here.
rogermurph101 I remember the switchover when I bought my first 30 pound jug of our 134 back in 1990is about $300 and that would be equivalent to about $1000 plus now
1234yF or as we liked to call it when we were mandated to start designing for it...1-2-3-4 You're F'd. The expense of moving to this refrigerant isn't just the cost of the stuff (which is RIDICULOUSLY expensive for what it is, but welcome to government control where). This stuff also requires changes to the AC System design itself. The seals that worked for R12, R134a disintigrate under this stuff. That's Honda's issue...they didn't change eveything they needed to. We had to move from Dual Slim Line (DSL) to MSF (Metal Seal Fitting) with an entirely new o-ring design. The stuff is so expensive that we went from a 10 year leak down to 15 year leak down rating. Others are still at 7 to 10 year max.
This stuff is adding a couple hundred bucks to your vehicle costs at minimum...have fun with that government mandate...BTW, they are just here to help...
I deal with flammable refrigerants in refrigeration systems... to service I have to vent it, then purge nitrogen through it before repairing the system
Thank you for that info.
I can attest to the Honda 1234yf system. I personally owned a 2017 civic EX off the floor with 0 miles, and the ac system was out of refrigerant after 20k miles with no apparent leak after testing. Even a two day follow up with dye revealed no leaks. The most bizarre thing man… both me and the technician were stumped. Never had a problem since, and it’s pushing 100k miles.
Great video, especially relevant to newer Honda owners with the new R-1234yf system. I'm currently leasing a 2017 Civic Sport 1.5L turbo with dead AC. I took it slightly past the 36K warranty when the AC started to fade. They told me at Venice Honda (FL) that the compressor had gone bad, but I would have to pay ~$1700 to replace the condenser (or vice versa, sorry) or they could not fix either. One part was on a recall, but the other was out of warranty range, so I was out of luck. Honda owns the car, but still refuses to fix it. It's a great car otherwise and I was definitely going to buy it after the lease expired, but just have to walk away. It was a nice break not having to turn a wrench for a few years, but it's back to an old truck for me. What a shame, hope this helps.
What did you end up doing with the car?
@@edmondlau511 Funny enough, a can of AC stop leak fixed the problem, at least temporarily. I can't recall the brand, but it was a complete success on the cheap. I'd gone way over on mileage by lease end, so I got stuck trading it in for a new lease to avoid fees. The 2020 Honda CRV has been perfect, though in hindsight I should have gone with AWD. One more year and I'll finally be back in a fun V8 truck.
@@nickstej my 2018 Civic is fun to me coming from a 2003 Civic. 😂 With these crazy gas prices, I’m glad I went with a Civic.
@@nickstej I ended up putting a can of 1234yf in on Sunday and it's held up over a 600 road trip from central to west Texas in some hot temperatures. Hope it can hold for a few months at a time.
@@edmondlau511 That's great news, glad it worked for you. The AC charge on my Civic lasted about a year and was still blowing cold air when I turned it in. Here's hoping you have the same luck.
It's really a bummer for someone like me. I'm a professional mechanic who works out of his garage (taking care of a relative full time). I am very capable of fixing an ac system but no chance I can afford to buy the equipment to service these new systems.
Where there's a will, there's a way. That's all I'm gonna say about that. 😉
Do RC if you work on AC and you cannot afford the equipment then you are charging the wrong price the cost of traveling around flying yourself out to seminars to training from the manufacturers the cost of the new equipment your supplies the cost of replacement equipment is not cheap if you are charging the wrong price he will never be able to afford to keep up with the repair industry raise your prices so you can take care of your customers
what the EPA dont know, wont hurt you, my friend. =)
@@fakiirification this refrigerant is too expensive to not recover.
@@DoRC - A portable machine used for rooftop units works very well, and is much cheaper, and not electronically controlled.
Found this out too when my sister 2017 civic ac freon was low. Then tried to see if I can "fill" it then saw the price and said "is it still under warranty?" Lol when I typed this u just said it about the Hondas lol 5:34
Cool
As a DIYer I would have more confidence in pulling my engine, and rebuilding said engine myself instead of messing around with my car's A/C. Besides in the Northeast we kinda can live without A/C.
you have been brainwashed by the global warming conspiracy. AC work is extremely simple, as it is a very simple system with only a few parts to do any work. r134a is the same shit they sell in canned air and air horns. Dont be scared of it.
Love love love repairing ac systems and paint just my Favorites.
This refrigerant is ridiculous.
Why the change anyways?
To save mother earth.. or something
@@zunedog31 We just use up this planet and move to another one. What's the big deal?
Something to do with this being lighter than 134a and it gets better fuel economy... why not just use a 42v system?
To make rich company even more richer.
It's all about the high GWP (Global Warming Potential) of an HFC like R134a. We moved from R-12 because it was a CFC (the first C being Chlorine... bad for the ozone layer).
If they eliminated the recovery requirements for R1234yf (since it doesn't warm the planet), then that would be a good thing. But I don't see them eliminating those requirements since that would be good for the DIY market.
The new machine is a nightmare to use, has to go through a calibration and contamination test every time you turn it on........
sully676 it Hass to go through a contamination check every time because were starting to see a lot of contaminated refrigerant because of idiots trying to stick in different refrigerants that are cheaper into the system. So when it comes to your shop if you don’t check it you contaminate your whole jug of refrigerant and it becomes no good how many thousands of dollars of our1234YF become bad just because you recover one bad car with contaminated refrigerant.
It's really a pain to deal with. The whole procedure is waaaay longer. It used to be only the 2019 RDX with R1234yf, but now a lot of the new MDX vehicles have it.
Another thing I've noticed is the receiver pipe between the TXV and condenser is now a part of the suction tube on some vehicles. The liquid refrigerant has a chamber that's welded around the suction tube where it flows through. They're obviously still separated, but it's all one part now up until it splits again.
I'm an Acura dealer tech (aka Hondas with more leather) and we are not experiencing what you spoke about the Honda failures. I'm curious, what component is failing? I haven't seen anything A/C related with a high failure rate.
Why do you use the automated recovery machines? Seems dumb to me to pay all that money for an automated machine that takes forever and interrogates you about what you are doing. Just replace it with a vacum pump and a digital scale. You can't tell me the average auto tech doesn't know how to run a vacum pump and charge a refrigeration system?
I did have 97 Buick with over 260,000 miles had week or no ac depending on the day.
Looked over the accumulater and lines for condensation to see if anything was cold, only the lines were cold.
Being a high milage car I gave it a shot couldn't hurt to try and it did help for 2 seasons then got week again wasn't worth dumping anymore cash into it.
My take away is if it's not blowing cold air there's usually a reason and if your going to fix it minus well do the entire system so it covered under warrenty.
Here's a rant for you Have you played any warrenty games😅
Buy cheap without warrenty and it doesn't last.
Buy better quality and it to doesn't last either.
Spin the wheel and try your luck see how long you can go on a cheap buck😅
So let me get this straight 1234yf is flammable, as is propane, as is R-12 with an oil charge. But you are somehow afraid of
twelve ounces of propane but you are not afraid of 16 gallons of gasoline. Thanks, I'll use propane and stay cool.
The main concern is with a front end impact. Fuel thanks are built to handle a bit of an impact, wheras an A/C condenser isn't so much
The major knock to DIY repair were the full warranties sold on new vehicles, limiting experience by general professionals until a vehicle is 5 years old. The DIY crowd have been able to keep up with technical innovations through the years, but the new phase shift to electric vehicles will be a challenge.
IDK about that. Electric vehicles still use brakes, suspension, and tires.
I like how your video popped up right after my car AC crapped out
Kathy Porter google is listening to you. All the alphabet companies are. And more beyond those as well. Turn your phone off- fully power it down- when you’re not using it.
Propane for AC is popular in Mexico.
yes gas fired fridge?
I've been told that 1234 is also highly corrosive. Local Honda dealer got several truck loads of new cars and the 1234 had all leaked out due to to corrosion
Thus the reason I'll keep my old vehicles (that and I'm broke)! :+)
I have four vehicles that are at least ten years old and the A/C works in all of them. I replaced the compressor and lines in my 26 year old truck a couple years ago. If one of my vehicles breaks down, I take another vehicle to work and I fix the broken vehicle on the weekends. So far, it has worked well for me. I would sell the truck but the best offer I received was $1800. The truck still runs great and the A/C is cold so I'm not selling it for peanuts.
Manufacturers don't want people to know this, but 134a is actually a slightly better performing refrigerant and is compatible with the oils used with 1234YF, so you CAN have the system recovered and recharge it with 134a. My buddy did that on his Jeep after the condenser failed and leaked all the expensive 1234YF out. He said the system works better than new, it cools off faster and gets colder at idle. Presuming the conversion is done properly, the compressor should last longer too since 134a carries oil better than 1234YF.
However, converting from 1234YF to 134a is probably illegal and can cause contamination issues if someone works on the system without knowing that it has been converted, so I can't recommend that people do this. If you choose to convert to 134a anyways, please clearly label the system as being converted to save the next person who services it the headache.
As a matter of fact, it is someone’s birthday, 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
Happy Birthday Canada!
Thank you Eric for this informative video
Point missing I would like mention it
The oil should be added in system is different than 134a fereon
Example/
Denso clutch type reciprocating compressor use ND oil 8 equivalent to PAG 46 with 134a refrigerant
While same type compressor use ND oil 12 higher specs than PAG 46 for 1234rf refrigerant
You spend 10,000 dollars on a 134 ac machine now the EPA pulls a fast one
When the stock compressor goes bad, just retrofit an R-134a compressor into the vehicle, vacuum out the system, fill with R-134a, and enjoy. I have done a similar retrofit with vehicles with bad R-12 compressors. I just get an R-134a compressor and retro fit it into the vehicle that originally had the R-12 system, vacuum, fill, and enjoy. The evaporators, driers, orifice, tubes, will all work just fine with a retrofitted compressor.
Indrid Cold and the difference in efficiency between r-12 and 134 causes you no problems? Or you just blame it on the new 134 not being as good but actually being available?
as of yet from the trainings that i have had for the new refrigerant , there are no available retrofits for 1234yf into older cars that are r134a , the new machines are coming down in price from around 6k and up , and depending on what area in the country you are in small cans of 1234yf are not available for purchase by diy people , we have not purchased a machine yet we will have to this year as we are sending away too many cars that we cant service .
The dealer can do leak check, condenser replacement and refill yf 1234 in about an hour.
Well, I don't agree. It's been my experience over the many years I've been DIY'ing cars and trucks that over time the cost to DIY the system will come down.
I recall years ago when disk brakes, then ABS systems were installed to vehicles and the same kind of resistance was put forth, mostly by tradespeople/mechanics. Then later it was the "computerized" vehicles that were too difficult to work on and over the head of DIY'ers. All came to pass and DIY'ers actively work on these systems.
There's a bit of snobbery involved here.
I'm a DIY'er that has NO certification but have installed several home a/c systems, own a couple vacuum pumps, gauges, a couple 30 pounders of R22 bought from Craigslist and several 30lbs of R410. Give it a couple years, or less, and I guarantee that you'll find this stuff being sold on Craigslist.
Pulling a vacuum on a system and then performing a leak down test is mandatory on central air systems so I'm not sure why you would say that's an 'additional' step. I also use nitrogen to charge the system to verify for leaks. You should be doing these things in an R134 systems too.
Never underestimate the skills of a DIY'er. I have another channel, Kaydee457 with a couple thousand followers and you can visit there to see my installs.
If I can do it, then anyone can do it....
I don't think it'll be long before there'll be a easy retrofit for this, it's my understanding that this is explosive.
More eric please . Keep it coming .
Well dang. Cant service the old either.
Love my r12 😃🤣
Way to go! My only question is why? What is the motive behind the changes? Is it to compete or to drive profits up?
abochavez neither, car companies have look at emissions for the whole vehicle, not just the tail pipe. R12 was not a clean chemical. R134a was better but had a “lifespan” of use. Just as tail pipe emissions get a little tighter every year, so do other parts of the vehicle. It is no better or worse than R134a, just cleaner if it gets into the air. If you worked in the automotive industry in the last 15 years you would have heard that this was coming. Now it is being rolled out. As with everything new it is priced high, after a few years and it becomes more the norm it will drop in price and not be a big deal.
I can still get R-12 from my work. Its $1,100 for a 30lbs jug though
Price has dropped considerably now that the demand is down , last 30lb can i saw sold cost just shy of 1900.00 bucks in 2002
I bought an entire skid from a hvac shop that was closing it's doors, $100 for 30 full tanks
The stuff is still on eBay in small quantities for a home gamer
I’m an HBAC tech and you can put 130 for a back in the system if you don’t wanna use 1234YF it’s the same oil
Old refrigerators used to operate on propane. My uncle had one at his mountain cabin, growing up. No electricity required.