Crypto is unlikely to crash meaningfully anytime soon in a way that would make everyone sell their hardware, and if anything, a crash encourages just as many to mine more as difficulty may drop + being in it for the long term, but ethereum switching to proof of stake is going to move a lot of GPUs around from miners who aren't interested in mining lesser coins.
@@boiiifuaintcare8629 lol tell them 🤣 laughing at all those who think it's gonna flop crypto has proven at this point if it falls it won't crash as hard as we have seen in the past. So while the future of mining isn't as clear the future of crypto doesn't seem too bleak
interesting enough, the same card, from the same manufacter, from the same place and date, may have some differences when it comes to mining, since they most likely will have different memory types
@@lazry3208 yeah but not gpus, pc gamers check frequencies constantly due to overclocking and extracting as much performance as possible, tldr : tht marketer is full of sht
Bought my 3070 from a miner, 1 year used card undervolted, mining rigs kept in a 15c temp enviroment. The person even showed me his rigs and how he takes care of them. I also got the warranty papers and i couldn't be happier with the purchase. Conclusion: If you know that the person takes care of the cards, i'd rather buy used from a miner than a gamer.
that's 100% what I heard everytime when I did proper research. there's a myth of "oh my God he's using the board 24 7" yeah and the board is undervolted and most times temp checked.. we're running gpus for 10h a day running at 100% and 80º 😂😂 which is most destructive? really like some people like to hear buzzwords and jump to conclusions instead of thinking
As a gamer, i can say that i didnt take good care of my rig cuz im not using it to make money So the miner's card is most likely in a better condition than mine...
@@bbblop4545 well it doesnt run 100% 24/7 cuz I only play for maybe 2 - 3 hrs a day at max Just dont have that much energy to play after work But I never really clean it and sometimes it makes weird noises Im not sure how the memory gets cooked, am not familiar with how the hardware works :\
Yup, when GPU prices crash == when Crypto crashes, it will happen every couple of years, if you miss your shot then, you need to probably wait atleast another 3-4 years.
I am not buying those because of what manufacturers say. I am not buying those because i am not going to reward miners for creating the GPU shortage and price hikes. I hope they get stuck with all the GPUs rotting under their asses.
@@KDR107 never say never. Crypto is not the only thing falling, almost an entire stock market has been down for a year, stocks hitting 52 week low left right and center, even the most formidable ones. But I'm pretty sure they'll come back up, the question is when, and that's probably when crypto trends will increase again. So yeah.
@@TheRacerperson I said it was one of the reasons, the other was the rest of the team started to suck, grinding for tanks toolk away way to much of my free time. I owned several T10 tanks. I stopped when they added the Japanese tanks, which is several years ago.
WOT is and for a very long time has been pay to progress, not pay to win. Dosn't matter how much money you throw at the game, if you suck you'll still suck.
miners are the reason why there are gpu shortage and why pricing is what is they are right now. just don't buy anything from them. let them soak in the cost as the result of their selfishness.
@@vaynelevant Have you not noticed that there's, I don't know, a pandemic going on that's causing a semiconductor shortage? If the problem was miners, why are all computer parts having a price increase or, for that matter, why are _vehicles_ having a price increase? Demand is high for these products, but supply is crippled. Nvidia and AMD know after 2018 how much demand mining creates, so they adjust their foundry booking accordingly. The problem is foundries downsized during the pandemic, and are having trouble scaling back up. Moreover, miners wouldn't buy cards at high prices. They have to make money after all. Would _you_ buy a card for $1000 that would normally be $500 if you were trying to make money with it?
@@coolmemesbudd There is a reason that i can buy a 3080 at a retailer now (even though for inflated prices), but couldn't 4 months ago. That reason is, that Ethereum, the best cryptocurrency to mine atm, will be switching to proof-of-stake soon. High investments in new GPUs will not pay off for smaller businesses anymore. The biggest reason for inflated prices definitively are miners, with people buying from scalpers on the second place.
Palit used to be "Avoid on sight" until the 10th generation - thats when they stopped catching fires from nowhere and actually got some nice thoughtfull heatsinks and quality components.
The most likely "degredation" is simply the lifespan of the fans themselves. If a fan motor is rated for 40,000 hours, that's about 4.5 years of 24/7 operation, so if you buy a used miner's card that's been going 24/7 for a year, those fans should be good for another 3 years of continuous 24/7 use.
Should be noted that the motors are rated for normal usage cycles, ie more stop-start than 24/7. They can actually last longer by virtue of never stopping. But iirc this effect is only in the single digits percentage, so it probably gives you a week or two of fan time, hardly noticeable. And then if they wear out just ziptie some noctuas on and you're good.
Miners always undervolt, and mining cards seldom go through the somewhat stressful heat up and cool down cycles of gaming cards, so there is a counter argument to a decreased life span, outside wear on the fans.
Well, not all of them, the really smarts one do. On the cycles, yes thermal cycling is the worse. However thermal stress occurs anyway, is just that there's a sweet spot were degradation is minimum, any degree more or less will short life span. Thermal cycling just made it way worse.
Bought 1080ti and memory was damaged. Previous owner did cryptomine on that cardy so i assume it corrupted the memory of that card. It run benchmarks with no problem, but when you start a game, it crashed immediately. So if Linus didnt test in game, this test is irrelevant for me, only that gpu clock is same
That's why you don't trust people on social media or the internet. Linus is fun to watch, but he's the last person I trust when it comes to protecting your hardware. If anything this channel is one big advertisement for products placement.
Isn't there a benchmark that tests VRAM corruption as well? I'm about to buy a secondhand GPU, I'll test it on a PC shop (whose owner is close to my family) so it'd be nice to have a benchmark app for that.
@@Yveldi - that's incredible! I hope it goes well for you. I'm not very educated when it comes to tech. My experience is with building a computer and playing games. Luckily everything just worked for me. I basically followed a step by step computer build guide that a five-year-old could've understood.
If Palit is testing and claiming this with their cards, I will assume it's a problem with no other brand and will avoid theirs altogether. Good information Palit.
They could just be referring to cards that have their thermals degrated due to heat which results in the card throttling sooner. Usually repasting and re-padding them will restore performance. DIY Miner/Gamers dont do this often but professional miners take care of their assets.
Since when has consistently running solid state electronics at well below their rated maximum temperature and power limits caused any kind of measurable degradation in a short time period of a few years? The worst that happens to a properly configured mining card is the wear and eventual failure of the fans. If a properly configured card dies while mining than it would have died doing any other task.
It doesn’t. Ultimately it’s a gap between hardware engineers and gamers. Someone who turns on their pc every day to absolutely slam it just to turn it right off and rinse and repeat for years and years, especially as they run newer more demanding titles, is going to experience some form of performance degradation. Usually it can be chalked up to the degrading thermal performance (dust, old thermal paste etc), but power delivery systems also aren’t going to be as reliable with that sort of load cycle. To a gamer who has likely experienced degradation in their own card, it seems the most logical that a card running 24/7 in a dusty warehouse would be much worse off
@@AdrianOkay I hear people make that excuse but I don't see it. Even with free electricity. Pretty much every card I've ever tuned resulted in a higher hash rate and lower power consumption than stock settings. I think people that pulg in a card, fire up nicehash and let it run till it dies are such a small percentage of the total population its not even worth considering
It's a non issue. There will always be cards that show failures after a few years of usage, although that's mostly with capacitors or thermal cycling of the PCB and subsequent breakage of traces and solder. Regarding IC fabrication, engineers have for a while now found ways to effectively combat electromigration - it's not the 80s anymore. Although fan damage is an actual problem - we had a number of Zotac cards simply drop the whole fan hub after only two or three years usage in a workstation.
Would have been nice to see gaming framerates. Clocks are a great indicator, but FPS would have been a lot more consumable data at least, and may have shown other degradation.
Not too sure if you watched the vid or not, but He did mention in the beginning of the video why he is only testing clock speed. Because if everything else is exactly same, chip with higher clockspeed will undoubtedly perform better and net higher fps. Your gpu will more likely die from cycles of heating and cooling vs constant temperature. Card sitting on shelf in India isn’t going to magically die. Playing intense games with low load loading screen is everyday worst case scenario of that and will kill your gpu faster vs constant heat introduced by constant mining load with 55~65% power limit. Probably the most critical thing about used mining cards as this video pointed out would be the life of the coolers because you can’t easily go out and buy replacement fan parts or water block for them esp if gen or two older. Bad cooler => higher temp => lower clock => lower fps
@@josephgoebbels1605 Yes but they could make far more by just meeting demand instead even with the extra effort that entails. The issue is that they literally can't until silicon IC manufacturers are able to gear up more production plants to meet the unexpected level of demand.
@@Wogix26 Why would they build their own when they already have existing agreements with TSMC which is already building additional plants. They'd just end up spending 10x the money and time building one of their own.
@foopyu nooui Miners are an issue, along with scalpers, and desperate gamers. The manufacturers can't keep up with the supply and demand. Though miners and scalpers at least take 65% of the cards.
This is how I managed to get all my friends affordable graphics card upgrades during these troubling times and all of them were happy with their purchases.
Same, got 480 that mined for nearly 2 years in 2018. It performed more than fine for another 2 years in my own PC, if anything it performed above the specs considering how responsive it was to undervolting and maintained above 1350mhz clock at just 95W peak power usage in games. Obviously also mined on it while not using the PC. Sold it in 2020 and never heard back from the buyer apart from thanks after he confirmed that GPU is working just fine and dandy. Later in 2020 got a deal on used 1080 that also was used for mining with only caveat being that it had replaced fans and was gp-104-400. Works just fine and dandy for the past year, boosting no problem to 1850 and higher with UV and 55% power target in games. It's also mining away at 34mh's when I don't have time to do stuff on PC or when doing office work. So far no problems.
Always bought used gpus and never cared how they were used for as long as they worked without issues. Only had problems with brand new ones in the past. Either a gpu works and then will continue to work for many years or it's crap and will die within months is my experience, regardless of how it's used.
I still have my first 480s I've bought for mining almost 5 years ago. I started off with 12 cards, one died 6 months ago. A dying mosfet decided to take a couple PCB layers with it, so it wasn't even the silicon itself that shit the bed. I feel like 1/12 in 5 years of 24/7 operation is a good quota. All the other cards run just as well as they did 5 years ago and still reach the same clocks at the same voltages, so no apparent degradation whatsoever. I recommend re-pasting and re-padding after a couple of years, though. They were completely dried out when I finally did it last year.
Your biggest risk when buying a 2nd hand mining card is the fan burning out, running at higher clocks for longer means more heat which means boosted fan speeds to keep heat down and prolong card life.
I dont think that anyone who is mining is using their gpus at full load, most of them are undervolting their cards and fans are barely spinning at 50% if not less
I have a mined graphics card and i have been using it for almost a year, i think if you gonna buy a mined gpu buy a one with a good cooler mine was msi
It's like very cheap to buy replacement fans tho, and also not that hard to take apart your gpu and replace the stock ones, I have done it with 3 gpus off a 5 minute video and every one has worked better than before fans broke down.
"Sitting on a shelf not being used" I mutter to myself while sobbing cards I would sell my soul for cause I can't afford to pay double or more MSRP. This card issue has to stop soon
If soon means 2023 or 2024 then yes, it will be over soon If you are fine with amd you can get a card for MSRP if you try enough, I got a xt 5900 and a xt 5700 Both for MSRP directly from the amd warehouse
Sell your whole rig online. Go MAINGEAR and buy a new PC. That's what I did. Sold a PC with a 1070TI and a R7 1700x for $2k then bought a MAINGEAR PC with 3080 and a 5900x for $2,300.
People forget that miners and data centers have a quite extreme vested interest in their hardware being long lasting and not breaking. Thus is well taken care of. Much unlike a consumer who has a vested interest in wringing every penny out of their hardware and driving it into the ground.
@@lancer3660 overclocking itself isn't actually harmful, it's high temperatures that are. Undervolting and underclocking the core significantly cools the card down and probably makes it actually better than a gamer's card.
I've bought ex mining cards and used gamers cards and tbh the ex mining cards have been better. Most miners underclock and undervolt most gamer's are flogging the shit out of their card for that sweet sweet fps.
@@Aussie_aNti_h3r0 this is absolutely true assuming you got it from an actual miner not a novice who doesn't know about underclocking and undervolting. You're almost always likely to get a better card from a miner running the GPU undervolted and underclocked compared to a gamer who was pushing the voltages and clockspeeds super high on their cards while running it inside a PC with absolutely horrible airflow
Why would I be making 30k monthly on techhostfarms online mining service and still want to use these machines that create noises and needs heavy maintenance? I am glad I sold all my helium and bobcat miners when I started with tech host farms.
I guess your concern with buying used mining GPUs should be the reduced life of the card rather than the performance being considerably less. Interesting video!
there is an issue with the methodology used here. it uses essentially just ONE sample. and only from some friend of linus who probably takes care of and cools the gpu's. a guy who drove me in his taxi the other day told me he just runs a stack of gpus with hardly any cooling in a big case. i doubt that dude's cards are in as good shape after. not everyone knows what they are doing in the mining space and a lot of people are doing dumb and destructive things.
I have bought a used GTX 670 and it lasted 4-5 years and now is stuck in idle clock speeds... Yes these GPUs have a life cycle but you don't know until it's actually broken
As a proud owner of a 2080 from Palit: Card still runs smooth, unlike one of its fans. Nothing some percussive maintenance couldn't fix, but a few months ago (when GPU prices where peaking) it gave me a real good scare for a good hour.
If the seller actively keeps his PC clean and it's well ventilated while mining, it's literally like buying a used GPU that was only for gaming. In simpler terms, what generally kills PC components (other than heat) is poor cleaning and poor cooling.
just bougth a 6800xt for 500€ on ebay from a well known and rated seller. nearly 1 year spend mining . card looks mint, not a spec of dust. seemed like a no brainer to me
I imagine it ultimately comes down to whether the miner knows what they are doing or not. Unfortunately after the crypto craze, I have a sinking feeling that a huge chunk of miners were cryptobros who cranked the cards up to 120% voltage and didn't even think about cooling.
@@hsharma3933 yeah but most of you also modify VBIOS files for compute rather for 3D work so pepole need to learn to flash or hope they don't buy for careless person who probably made them have hassle which happend to me when i bought rx560 in 2017 from a guy who was mining,dude didn't flash it back to stock and it kept crashing because of his BS undervolt and power play tables being all sorts of fucked up to the point where i hoped gpu was gonna work sadly it crashes at stock clocks because phat fuck managed to kill its lifespan cause "undervolting" so i would be doing a dilligence and reflashed to stock bios when selling otherwise i would be scared of unexpectedd visit from a person who got a gpu from you to tell you it crashes even if it passed expirience tests while not telling that you miners know more than gamers when esports games communities and XOC communities know far more than miners
@@MuhammadHanif-bx4pb not all miners treat their cards with respect, some of them pack gpus like sardines and crank mem clock to the max for max hashrate, mem are running at >100deg 24/7 (3080&3090), which will definitely cause permanent damage to those vram.
>"Heavy usage of this chip will degrade the performance by 10% per year" >Me has been running BOINC on a poor GTX750Ti ever since I got it 7 or so years ago with no measurable performance loss
I have been running a poor imaginary 2070 super in my mind the past three years with a considerable performance BOOST when it uograded to a 3080 a few months ago.
My theory is that crypto mining despite using the gpu 100% 24/7 doesn’t usually start and stop the load like normal games, so the card doesn’t change temperatures too much. Less temperature change means less thermal expansion cycling and I believe this is why mining cards probably don’t degrade as much as people would think.
its the same reason old taxi's and stuff can reach 500,000 miles without any major issues becuase the motors are hardly ever stoppped and started they just run all day long arond a city
Buying mined cards is fine, I’ve been using a mined on 2080 for about a year and a half now and it hasn’t given me any problems. If in doubt though it’s always good to clean out a used card no matter who you’re buying from.
Since a worked for years as an integrator i can tell you, you get more DOA stuff than any issues with used parts. And the nice plot here, gaming GPUs are way more done than any mining gpu i´ve seen so far. We calculated the "electrical migration" and a gaming GPU with an average usage of 8h per day equals a 24/7 Mining Card. Cant understand the ppl, which spend over 1K for a freaking RX6800 when you could get a used 6900XT for 50-100€ less.. "but the warranty".. yeah, fuck your warranty, which takes so long that you need to buy a new part anyway if you dont want to wait a decade (Asus for example). I always took the "risk" and got rewarded so many times.. 7820X with 4GHz allcore static at 0.98V.. 6600K 4960MHz at 1.33V.. GTX1070 with 2105/2500MHz ingame stable, twice a R9 290 with 1250MHz (back then they had a "lock" at 1098-1100MHz).. for me there is no reason to buy new parts besides from psu´s and ssd´s.
@MisterQuake That's great that things worked out for you, but many miners don't take care of their GPUs. They can easily clean them before selling them. If your not getting a huge discount it's not worth the risk to buy a used GPU.
It is inevitably coming, the big coin that most of these gpus are mining is about to go proof of stake within the next couple of years and that will undercut the value of gpus for crypto even if the market never crashes.
I wish I had these videos when I was having an argument with a "computer scientist" who insisted the gpu degraded crazily without any evidence. I just couldn't find this because I usually search for articles vs UA-camrs. Linus has covered this multiple times now and people still buy the FUD.
Was kinda hoping he'd mention most miners tend to run them with lower power (though boosted memory) because they work faster for that particular task, and they last longer if you're not cooking them.
Hey, just wanted to let you know they do degrade even if they are kept in tip top condition but the thing is its not by much and would only be noticeable if you had a long standing heavy oc making it a non issue for anyone but competitive overclockers
I have a mechatronics degree and I totally agree with this glad that you pointed out the condition of the fins it is definitely is something to look out for when buying a used gpu wether if it was or wasn't mined on mining affects the card as much as gaming on it also if it was overclocked that's also bad but overall the conditions of the fins usually tell the story because when the metal fins get heated above what it was designed for usually it gets corroded
Linus: "To finally turn the tables on those filthy filthy miners" Mom: "Sounds like he can't get his kids to take a bath either" Me: "Miners not Minors" Mom: "What??"
One minor point, when you mention thermal expansion/contraction as a reason electronics with no moving parts wear out.... that doesn't apply to a GPU that is being run 24/7 because it doesn't experience the expansion/contraction cycle. It is like the old incandescent bulb that is turned on and left on so that it lasts longer than the ones that go on and off multiple times a day. Their are two main things that are likely to go bad over time from teh constant use... any capacitors that may exist on the card as capacitors are designed to last specific amount of usage, and the bearings in the cooling fans.
@@engenheirometaleiro2268 gpu's have target temperatures in mining programs that they maintain by adjusting the fan speed. Colder room = less fan. Hotter room= more fan. This allows the card to stay at a constant temperature ensuring it mines the most efficiently it can without stale shares.
@@engenheirometaleiro2268 A very very SMALL amount of it, compared to normal "shut the machine down daily" usage - even *if* the fan is set up for a constant speed.
Well, I'm not a manufacturer, just a guy working in computer repair, and I always advise people to be wary of buying used graphics cards, especially ones used for mining. Case in point: we had a customer come in with an RTX 2060 that he bought online, but it would crash or not even display output. After some testing, we finally disassembled it and found out why. Some of the VRM's and capacitors had been completely snipped off, probably to limit the power draw. Now he's out whatever he spent on the card, because it's highly unlikely he's getting his money back. Buyer beware.
@@xerxes876 I can't think of any other reason they would do it, except for mining (and that's merely speculation on my part). All I know is that they were obviously clipped off the board. They didn't even bother to unsolder the points sticking up out.
Free tech tip: Ex-mining GPUs may have an altered BIOS. If you don't know how to restore the original BIOS, ask the seller to do it for you. Otherwise, the card may be undetectable by your PC. Ask me how I know.
They don't necessarily have one, that is extremely common on AMD cards, but not nearly as common on NVIDIA cards. This is because AMD cards get a 20% mining efficiency boost from the altered bios, but I don't know of any of my mining friends altering their bios. Think about how Nice Hash is trying to make it super easy for every gamer to mine, none of those people are altering their bios.
Gamers card: Full of dust, ran hot and turned on and off allot (turning on and off is the main cause of component failure) Miners card: kept cool, cleaned regularly and undervolted
@@whwhwhhwhhhwhdldkjdsnsjsks6544 dumb miners do that probably running them at 100% costs a lot more energy and can kill the cards so they have to reinvest xd
@@whwhwhhwhhhwhdldkjdsnsjsks6544 And in general second hand stuff is often damaged or in bad shape. What miners and people in general are doing with unstable cards etc.? They are selling them! Another thing is that people are planning this from the start. I saw how render farms do it - they don't care if processors or graphic cards survive for long time because they will have new faster stuff soon anyway and components that have some issues are slowly sold one by one. There are professional scammers who are selling whole PC builds with swapped components. Majority of people know nothing about computers and it's insane how often it's exploited. You can find shell companies that use "hit and run strategy" - they are selling horrible shit on mass, then close bussines and open new bussines again...
Obviously Palit has thoroughly tested their cards and we can trust them 100% when they say that their cards degrade by 10% per year, unlike pretty much any other brand's cards. It's so honest of them to admit it!
Ethereum mining will stop when eth2.0 releases, and when the crypto bear market comes. Of course a miner with 10+ cards will sell them if they are not profitable anymore.
Meanwhile I am basically sitting here with an old gtx 1070, under full load every day for literal years ,without having any kind of performance drop that is either visible or shown in any benchmark software I tested so far. GPUs aren't as vulnerable as some people might think.
I have the same card and bought it right when it came out. It has been running OC'ed with a 17% voltage increase since then and still going strong. Temps don't go over 73 during extended stress testing.
i had a palit 9800gt and a 560ti. i had them till i switched to a new pc back in 2013. bought an msi 760 that crapped itself twice in the course of 2 years. 1st was replaced brand new. replacement unit garbaged display too within the year. it was also replaced by another unit. then i switched to galax 1060. no issue for 3 years. now im using pny 3080.
me too! I bought RX580 4G for 60USD here back in early 2020. My manager at work had it even better, the same for 50USD in 2019 which then burned and he spent another 50USD to buy another one. When the GPU crisis comes, people bought broken GPU for sky high price to repair , he sold the burned RX580 for 150USD!!!
I remember getting over 20 GTX 1070s for my office workstations for $160 each, and a bunch of replacement fans from ebay for less than $100. I only had to replace one pair of fans so far. They're all still working fine and are more than profitable for the business.
1. Mining GPUs are typically undervolted 2. They are on 24/7 for the most part and don't typically thermal cycle. As long as they're cared for and aren't dusty as heck and moderately taken care of it's fine.
I wish i did when the price was right. Instead i bought a 1070 for only $100 less than the 1080 ti price months before. Even then my 1070 was way cheaper than the horrible prices of today. So glad i didn’t hold off replacing my r9 270. Otherwise i would have played all my current games at low to mid settings.
@@chitorunya i know. It was sarcasm. The main comment had way too many apostrophes in it before, he removed some apparently. Now it's just gpu's which sounds and looks stupid but technically isn't incorrect.
A smart miner usually underclocks his graphic card, so it uses less voltage, but still give a solid amount of mining power, so the profit actually is higher than it would be when using in stock settings. So a card that has been used heavily in current gen games, is most likely a worse option to buy in second hand, than a mining card, which ran underclocked in constant usage.
@@ssllsg9439 from room temp to max temp and then back to room temp is thermal cycle, when gaming your card went from 20celcius to 90 in game and then back to 20 when the game is loading-that 1 cycle, and like Mbdk2 said, it could be over 100 cycles per month for an average gamer
I have been mining on my GTX1070 since I bought it when not gaming, so over 4 years, and the performance is the same, also I can overclock the memory higher than when the card was new, using the newer drivers, I had tried with the original driver that came in the DVD and I couldn't get those overclocks without crashing, so no performance degradation.
@Samurai Shampoo In 4 years I make 2.1ETH and I sold it a few months ago for $7200, so yes it was really worth it, the card was around $700 in my country so it makes over 10 times the cost of the card, and I only mine on winter (around 9 months per year) while not gaming. Electricity here is really cheap, so I don't take it as a cost, is like $0.022 per kw and my system uses around 225W mining with the configuration I use, so if I mine 18 hours per day, monthly electricity cost related to mining will be only $2.7
I GUARANTEE it’s in better shape than my 1070 that I’ve had running for 24:7 for 4 years also, but for gaming constantly (whenever I’m not gaming I run Minecraft afk farms on my two accounts so I am always profiting but also wearing out the cards) Smh I didn’t even think of the wear on the card
Another would be that if you all start buying up second-hand cards you will send a signal as a market that you're content with being second-hand consumers.
@@tomcat6186 You can work for money and game in your free time. Because resource and energy are limited, and we do not have a surplus of renewable energy still, mining is a form of speculation which is against common welfare. A Chinese study says that China cannot reach their climate protection goals if cryptomining is to continue.
Honestly, if they are selling them for 10-20% of the original (not inflated) price, through ebay where I can get refunded if it doesn't work, then sure, I will take a 2080 for $50.
what about the memory frequency of mining GPUs?does it reach the advertised frequency?, the most component that dies on these GPUs are the memory chips, for example the rx 580 which is used a lot by miners, has no vram sensor, the gpu core's temperature could be in the safe range, but vram will be extremely hot because mining stresses the vram more than the gpu core
If the gpu memory wasnt in the safe range it would throw errors or perform slowly and the miner would be taking a look at the card. Typically only memory which is bare with no fan will be at risk of degredation or failure.
on most of the 30 series card i’ve seen and held, the ram is directly onto the plate of the heatsink just like the gpu die, so generally you get the same cooling on the memory, and since the die is sipping power, the most heat producing thing becomes the memory, which is cooled by the heatsink. so i’d thing they’re fine. plus most programs show the vram temp and have alarms.
I have had 3 rx480s that I bought from miners that have failed due to vram artifacting, its plain and simple, wait it out, dont buy used cards from miners
I never expect the GPU core to be the part that dies in old mining cards, I would be more afraid of the power delivery giving up after running 24/7 for years in possibly hot temperatures. Or the memory dying. Or the fans dying (sure, they can be replaced but it's quite a hassle to find replacement fans and it costs extra). It has to be REALLY cheap to be worth the risk as Linus said. I'm not gonna be accepting a 10-20% discount for the unknown reduction in lifespan of the card.
Mining is almost as intense as gaming but it's done 24/7. As long the thermals for the card are good, they should be ok. Most miners wouldn't fry their card cuz then they'd have to buy new cards and lose profit
@@ZastropollyonZ "Most" is not good enough for investing in hundreds worth of dollars. What if that "most" fails? It's a gambling at this point, a bad one at that.
honestly at this point, I dont care if old mining cards preform just as well as a new card straight out of the box, Im not buying a used mining card. Miners and scalpers have screwed the graphics card market for over two years now to where I havent been able to upgrade from my old 970. Im not buying something these guys are selling second hand. Period.
I think miners and scalpers, while exacerbate the problem, are not necessarily the sole responsible for screwing the market. Theyre just the second in line. Global shortage of silicon, manufacturers not able to make supply, high demand, rapid technological growth are the main ones. Im saying this as a reminder to others and to myself mostly, its easy to forget
@@WingMaster562 yeah it's usually multiple unexpected problems when a business fails that hard to meet supply. They probably had plans for the crypto bubble because it wasn't completely unprecedented
They run hot and at high heat so it’s not a performance issue but longevity. Heat kills components faster so the card is way more likely to fail sooner, especially since the last wave of miners are outdated fad idiots who somehow convinced themselves inefficient GPU mining gets more bitcoins than SHA256 ASIC rigs.
The issue is not whether the performance degrades. The lifespan of the GPU is severely harmed by being run at high temperatures for long periods of time. There is also the issue of tin whiskers which pretty much kill all silicon eventually. Buying used is fine (especially when the original user treats it well), but buying a used mining GPU is akin to buying a used car with a salvage title. It may work out fine for you, but it really isn't worth the risk. Only buy used cards in which their original owner took care of it.
Yeah... except miners are almost definitely running their cards cooler and maintaining them better than gamers are. Not to mention a card running at a constant steady pace likely experiences less wear than a gaming card going through constant stress cycles.
Tin whiskers? What's this, the 70's? Tin whiskers develop on pure tin surfaces, and I don't know about you but it's pretty rare to find pure tin inside silicon chips. Tin whiskers haven't been an issue for decades, so I don't know wtf are you smoking.
Sometimes you just have to use common sense (I know, it's not very common). If mining GPUs degrade to the point some say it does, then the used GPU market would be flooded with reports of many many dead or dying used GPUs. There's very little evidence that has been the case.
@@phenomenologicalparadox5216 Why? Because how they behaved and and laughed at people when the cards were expensive like never before and crypto didn't crash yet. I know that some of you have absolutely none dignity or pride in yourself, but i am simply not going to give them money, making them even more profits.
This might be statistically "true" IF around 10% of the cards die every year, AND they are included in the numbers as running at 0%. Out of 100 cards: (90 x 100% speed) + (10 x 0% speed) / 100 = 90% speed on average. This is why stats teachers always say: "Average without variance is worthless." And that's the kind of thing I've seen "confused*" marketing people do. (* - Being kind.)
They don't. Miner here, we take care of the cards. They run at 60-80% power limits most of the time with highly controlled temperature ranged. My gaming rig has a 3080 which comes from one of the rigs and is still mining when I'm not playing games. Wait for the massive dump and buy sh GPUs
Lol Brownie if they made that mistake, people at Palit must have sh!t for braind because that is a stupid mistake to make. I dont think anyone working there would make such a stupid mistake - it's just good old fashioned gaslighting and lying to the consumer so he/she can pull the trigger on a new GPU purchase that much quicker
Etherum mining is stressing the video memory not the GPU. When I mined on my 5700 the gpu ran at 55-60°C but the memory ran at 90-95°C and thats pretty close to the 110°C tripping temp. And its a GDDR6 I saw on mining forums that GDDRX6 runs significantly hotter 100-105°C. So its not about performance loss its about the potential memory module failure.
Linus don't know a damn about the hardware. He's just a normie who makes money from ads and paid reviews. For his mind it's a good deal to buy a half dead gpu without even knowing how to test it properly lol
This was fascinating. With the 4000 series so overpriced, I've been looking at used 3090s for a decent upgrade. There are 3090s going for almost half the price of a 4080s. So kinda feels like a no-brainer.
@@frumentarii7383 all the hate for the 4000 series cards is because of the whole "way overpriced for the performance gain" and "way too much money for an 80 class and 70 class card". The prices, while they are different in different markets, are still not good no matter how you look at them. a 3090 for 2000 dollars vs a 4080 for 1200 is not because of the actual price of them, but instead the fact that the old cards havent been adjusted properly, as the 3090 should be priced accordingly to that.
@@docn1ght 4090 is 30-50% faster than 3090. 4080 is also faster than 3090. 4070ti matches the 3090. 4070 matches the 3080 ti. Stop regurgitating that bullshit. These cards perform appropriately and are incredibly efficient. Just say you can’t afford it. PC gaming doesn’t need brokies holding up graphical fidelity.
"thermal expansion & contraction" Me with a gpu mining at exactly 65c for a year: interesting. I bet mine are better than a gaming one that fluctuate everywhere
One of the more common failures is BGA components like the GPU die or more likely the memory dying, because those tiny solder balls below the package start cracking from all the heat cycles combined with cooler pressure. So yeah, that's certainly less of an issue with mining cards.
I've always said this; Miner's have one thing in mind, profit (yes yes some do it because support some blockchain this is oversimplification) So it's in their best interest to A: Have their cards draw as little power as possible while retaining most of the hasrate (So, less electron-derived degration) B: Keep their cards running as long as possible (Because until you hit ROI you are basically in the red and buying another one after 8 months is not wise) and C: Keeping them as cool as possible (Related to A and B; a hotter card draws more energy to maintain the same hashrate and it degrades them faster). I have a friend who keeps an old 660 mining just because it his first GPU and we have compared it with reviews at the time and it hasn't lost a single FPS
4:49 I love how Linus has actually evolved to the point he doesn't need to be holding something to drop it. Also, how exactly do you guys not classify moving electrons as a moving part?
because you just dont you wouldnt say that a copper wire is a mechanical device because you just dont its just how things are said a mechanical device is usually a device with an actual moving part like a spinning disk hard drive
@@TheZoenGaming There's actually debate as to whether electrons actually exist/how electricity and magnetism actually work. The standard model assumes everything is made of particles in which case electrons and photons have to exist to explain electricity and electromagnetism but there are some alternative suggestions. Honestly I've not dived too deep into the alternative theories myself but there are definitely some issues with the standard model at the smallest (quantum) scales. When reading explanations on how and why certain EM properties work I've consistently found the explanations are either all about the ways EM waves behave (like how polarization works) or all about how EM particles behave (slit experiment) with no real connection between them (that connection is something I tried to look up which is where I learned about alternative theories). I've heard it said that if anyone claims to know how quantum physics actually works they are either full of shit or some sort of omniscient god.
@@grn1 I suggest you look up how Electron Microscopes work and what they are capable of showing before saying that. Yes, how the universe works is still a mystery, and no one has been able to give a simple unified theory that shows how all things interact. Unfortunately, nothing actually says that we ever will know these things, and there's always the chance that the universe is complicated to the point that a simple unified theory is not possible. Quantum physics is a creation of humans, so of course it can be understood by humans. Some people just can't wrap their heads around the idea that time is acausal.
So with your logic, literally everything has moving parts and we have to distinguish things by saying “moving parts” and “large collections of moving parts that move in uniform together”? That sounds way more logical
Anyone who's in the mining business knows, that the single most common point of failure for cards used 24/7 is the cooling. That's why you either run cards with non-stock fans from day 0 and replace those fans on a regular basis, or at least keep the fans at minimum. Since most cards in mining rigs run at lower than nominal TDP (mining sweet-spot is usually at around 60% TDP) keeping fans at low speed is quite easy. What I would check for sure if I were conducting this test, would be memory on ATI cards that's been used for ETH mining. This currency is very memory-depentent and VRAM has a lifespan. Not sure how to check it though - anyone knows an equivalent of MEMTEST86+ for GPU-s?
Yeah... Very odd linus didn't mention that. The memory and memory controllers are the things that get cooked on mining cards. It's not a bad idea to look at the pcb and check for discoloration/signs of high heat around the edges of the die (the rubbery stuff), the memory chips themselves and the VRMs if the seller lets you. Avoided more than 1 bad card that way. It's an easy fix if the card still works, though. Lower memory clockspeed until the artifacts go away.
But it wasn't because it's mining I have one with artifacts and I've never mined in it, and I have a 1060 6GB that mines since 2016 and it has absolutely no problems, so much so that in some games I even use overcloks without any problem.
@@VEVOsdead True, but he neglected the most important word in those sentences, "memory" and then proceeded to solely focus on gpu clockspeeds which certainly can lead to artifacting, but no miner is pushing gpu clocks. The gpu pipeline barely, and I mean barely gets used while mining. That's the frustrating thing about LTT. They usually get the info right, but not how or why it's important in the first place aside from a ultra surface level stuff such as more clocks = more better which if you're watching this channel I would think you at least have some sort of understanding of. I mean I understand that's the target audience of the channel, but it frustrates the hell out of my how insistent they are with the "mainstream-ness". I'll still watch though. Also, furmark is a bad example because modern gpus will detect furmark and automatically lower clocks somewhat. Trust me I've done everything Linus did here and it's not a reliable way to tell if a gpu is "good". Had gpus pass as much furmark as you can throw at them only to crash the instant a 3d frame gets rendered in battlefield. Furmark is primarily used to measure the absolute max power a gpu can draw. It's a power delivery test, not clock stability test. A 30 min loop of timespy extreme is way way more predictive if you actually want to test the clock stability of a card.
I mean, depending on budget and what you're upgrading from, even a card with 10% loss might still bit 290% or even 390% better than your old one if you are looking for a used one
@@furkoq bought a mid range phone a few years back for like a couple hundred. It broke. I replaced it a few years later with a cheapo phone that had better all around performance for like 60 bucks. I swear they should have stuck with keeping things modular, so that as technology progressed, you as the consumer could just buy a better cpu, or gpu, or ram without having to scrap your whole system. It's one of the few great things about full PCs. It would also make more money in the long run, and add more competition amongst the various phone/tablet/laptop providers. Kinda like Nvidia and AMD have right now. It would also open the door for foreign manufacturers to compete for a slot in your upgrade list. Which also means those products have to be comparable to Nvidia and AMD. Not crappy Chinese bootlegs. No offense of course, bootlegs are a big business but it's just better business to not fuq people over. Money does strange things to people. Which is odd cause their are so many non scummy ways to make money. Cough apple cough...
See, I honestly appreciate this kind of video. Its information that many need and want but very few have access to, BUT at the same, time, the minute this video gains any kind of traction, 90% of the used card list will bump up in price, so it'll in effect not "fix" the lacking card problem *as much*. Its a double edged sword if i've ever seen one.
To be totally fair, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. Not having this info could do more harm than good. This info doesn't matter until the crash happens and, when it does, I would think people trying to liquidate cards, if it happened as fast as it did last time, wouldn't dare try to raise prices because their competitors might saturate the market before they do, and thus would be left with hundreds of cards they don't want. So sure, some people will bump up their prices with the trust in used cards going up, but until GPUs are readily available again GPUs weren't going to be affordable anyway. Any rise in price this video makes will be circumstantial at best.
Losing GPU performance because of mining makes obviously no sense. What could happen is that their lifespan is shortened (especially of the memory because that is used for mining) or that the performance drops because the cooling solution is degrading and therefore the clocks would be lower.
I had a RX 580 8GB which spent years on mining. Worked perfectly fine, overclocked perfectly fine and I was having a blast with it. Shame that I sold it though.
@@zaki_1337 Nah I sold it a bit before prices blew up, I was planning to get another RX 580 but at that time I needed money and that's why I sold it, then when I finally was about to buy the card I realized prices are thrice as high and now I'm running with an iGPU lol
Mining puts the main pressure on the RAMs while the fan rotation speed and card temperature are based on the GPU temperature. Because the GPU does not work much, it causes the temperature to be low and the fans to operate at low speeds, while the RAMs receive very high temperatures due to heavy mathematical activity and calculations. They become very vulnerable and their useful life is greatly reduced and they become like coal
Smart full-time miner: lend my GPU to LLT so that gamers are confident to buy my cards when the crypto crashes.
Until he drops it "hmm, this mining GPU doesn't seem to work, how strange sorry about that, here's your card back"
Crypto market is gonna take long till another crash especially some assets are gonna pump up in a few weeks and they aint coming down
Crypto is unlikely to crash meaningfully anytime soon in a way that would make everyone sell their hardware, and if anything, a crash encourages just as many to mine more as difficulty may drop + being in it for the long term, but ethereum switching to proof of stake is going to move a lot of GPUs around from miners who aren't interested in mining lesser coins.
"smart" misspells ltt
@@boiiifuaintcare8629 lol tell them 🤣 laughing at all those who think it's gonna flop crypto has proven at this point if it falls it won't crash as hard as we have seen in the past. So while the future of mining isn't as clear the future of crypto doesn't seem too bleak
Linus: sends miner back the wrong card
Miner: it's ok, they perform the same
Unless it has the Linus treatment.
interesting enough, the same card, from the same manufacter, from the same place and date, may have some differences when it comes to mining, since they most likely will have different memory types
Then bursts in the face.
Not if Linus dropped it.
@@tribopower most cards used for mining are GDDR6X, so no, not really.
"Heavy usage of this chip will degrade the performance by 10% per year." Sounds like something a clueless marketer would say.
That marketing person there is definitely a former used car seller.
That's how hard drives work
@@lazry3208 yeah but not gpus, pc gamers check frequencies constantly due to overclocking and extracting as much performance as possible, tldr : tht marketer is full of sht
Is it even good false marketing? Hey, if you heavily use our product you will chip off 10% of performance/year. Doesn't sound very enticing.
Reminds of that time a sales guy said an i7 k sku would be 10x faster than the non-k sku.
Bought my 3070 from a miner, 1 year used card undervolted, mining rigs kept in a 15c temp enviroment. The person even showed me his rigs and how he takes care of them. I also got the warranty papers and i couldn't be happier with the purchase.
Conclusion: If you know that the person takes care of the cards, i'd rather buy used from a miner than a gamer.
that's 100% what I heard everytime when I did proper research.
there's a myth of "oh my God he's using the board 24 7" yeah and the board is undervolted and most times temp checked.. we're running gpus for 10h a day running at 100% and 80º 😂😂 which is most destructive?
really like some people like to hear buzzwords and jump to conclusions instead of thinking
As a gamer, i can say that i didnt take good care of my rig cuz im not using it to make money
So the miner's card is most likely in a better condition than mine...
@@hotpenguin607 exactly, that's why people gotta do their own research before buying something. Knowing and minimizing the risks
@@hotpenguin607 is your card being run full bore at 100% fan speed 24/7 in ways that slowly yet surely cooks the memory?
@@bbblop4545 well it doesnt run 100% 24/7 cuz I only play for maybe 2 - 3 hrs a day at max
Just dont have that much energy to play after work
But I never really clean it and sometimes it makes weird noises
Im not sure how the memory gets cooked, am not familiar with how the hardware works :\
"If you can buy them for half of the price..." Miners selling GPU above MSRP lol
from china you can get 3080s for $500 if you order 100 units.
@@Quantainiumify If you order in bulk i can buy one from you lol
I've seen fake 1060's with 650 chips in them. Be careful when buying from china.
@@CockroachSlidy bro you act like as if that was a china only thing
@@unownunown1530 it is.. also India
Palit : Don't buy used mining GPUS
Also Palit : Increase the price to 200%
Also Palit: Damn you Linus!!!!
And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
“When GPU prices crash” is sounding a whole lot like “when coronavirus ends”
Yup, when GPU prices crash == when Crypto crashes, it will happen every couple of years, if you miss your shot then, you need to probably wait atleast another 3-4 years.
Silly, at least the pandemic will end when all humans die. Don't think It will be same for GPUs.
You jinxed it.
It will happen, it's just modern tulip
Lol, That's so true
I am not buying those because of what manufacturers say. I am not buying those because i am not going to reward miners for creating the GPU shortage and price hikes. I hope they get stuck with all the GPUs rotting under their asses.
No. Once crypto goes back up in value you'd be wishing you robbed every crypto miner of their GPUs when you had the chance.
L
@@friendofp.24 crypto keeps falling right know so nah freak those crypto miners
@@KDR107 never say never. Crypto is not the only thing falling, almost an entire stock market has been down for a year, stocks hitting 52 week low left right and center, even the most formidable ones. But I'm pretty sure they'll come back up, the question is when, and that's probably when crypto trends will increase again. So yeah.
@@phucth91 i wish it would take 3 years for the crypto to be stable so i can get a decent card like rtx 3080 ti by the end of this year
Linus: " skills wins the battle, not the money"
Premium Shells: are you sure about that?
ua-cam.com/video/Skx0z-gPkrA/v-deo.html&ab_channel=sagemaster
It's one of the reasons i stopped playing WOT
Bro, never heard of firing skill rounds?
Yeah, world of tanks is about as P2W as they come. The ever more overpowered premium tanks, as well as premium ammunition, it's just such bull.
@@TheRacerperson I said it was one of the reasons, the other was the rest of the team started to suck, grinding for tanks toolk away way to much of my free time. I owned several T10 tanks. I stopped when they added the Japanese tanks, which is several years ago.
"world of tanks matches are won with skill not with money"
oh linus you poor sod, if you only knew.
da comrade, Russians win battles
Laugh in smasher
@@ABCD-rn6tk you have the smasher? ._.
@@TyphoonWarface i don't actually lol
WOT is and for a very long time has been pay to progress, not pay to win. Dosn't matter how much money you throw at the game, if you suck you'll still suck.
Palit: Huge seller of pallets of GPUs to miners.
Palit: "Don't buy miner GPUs!1!"
miners are the reason why there are gpu shortage and why pricing is what is they are right now. just don't buy anything from them. let them soak in the cost as the result of their selfishness.
@@vaynelevant Demand in general, clearly more people also means more miners, its an everyone thing
@@coolmemesbudd nope. miners bought them by the droves, so it's them. it was also the same a few years back during the gtx 10 series.
@@vaynelevant Have you not noticed that there's, I don't know, a pandemic going on that's causing a semiconductor shortage? If the problem was miners, why are all computer parts having a price increase or, for that matter, why are _vehicles_ having a price increase?
Demand is high for these products, but supply is crippled. Nvidia and AMD know after 2018 how much demand mining creates, so they adjust their foundry booking accordingly. The problem is foundries downsized during the pandemic, and are having trouble scaling back up.
Moreover, miners wouldn't buy cards at high prices. They have to make money after all. Would _you_ buy a card for $1000 that would normally be $500 if you were trying to make money with it?
@@coolmemesbudd There is a reason that i can buy a 3080 at a retailer now (even though for inflated prices), but couldn't 4 months ago. That reason is, that Ethereum, the best cryptocurrency to mine atm, will be switching to proof-of-stake soon. High investments in new GPUs will not pay off for smaller businesses anymore.
The biggest reason for inflated prices definitively are miners, with people buying from scalpers on the second place.
Solana SOL has no meaning when you make 30k monthly off tech host farm.
"Unless Palit is saying their cards die really quickly"
Well, I've had a Palit GTS 250 and GTX 460 both go bad on me rather quickly, soooo...
Ouch, shot themselves in the foot
Palit used to be "Avoid on sight" until the 10th generation - thats when they stopped catching fires from nowhere and actually got some nice thoughtfull heatsinks and quality components.
I've got a working Palit GTS 250 to this day (on a shelf), so there's that...
I am buying Palit GPU since 460 and i never had any issue.
Bought a second hand palit 980ti, lasted 10 months and fried with only occasionally gaming...
The most likely "degredation" is simply the lifespan of the fans themselves. If a fan motor is rated for 40,000 hours, that's about 4.5 years of 24/7 operation, so if you buy a used miner's card that's been going 24/7 for a year, those fans should be good for another 3 years of continuous 24/7 use.
Should be noted that the motors are rated for normal usage cycles, ie more stop-start than 24/7. They can actually last longer by virtue of never stopping.
But iirc this effect is only in the single digits percentage, so it probably gives you a week or two of fan time, hardly noticeable.
And then if they wear out just ziptie some noctuas on and you're good.
@@xureality Those ziptie'd Noctuas might even perform better than the original fans xd
the good thing is that its easier to replace the gpu cooler than the gpu itself in these times lol
@@Pl4sm4Ro4ch I'd say it was always easier..
Lmfao do you know anything about power delivery, sin wave electiricity, proper cooling and shutdown. This comment section is AIDS
Miners always undervolt, and mining cards seldom go through the somewhat stressful heat up and cool down cycles of gaming cards, so there is a counter argument to a decreased life span, outside wear on the fans.
gamers keep GPUs in a freaking oven miners let their cards breath fresh air AND undervolt them
The most youd probably have to do when buying a used mining card is pop off the HSF and replace the thermal paste and or clean/replace the fans.
Well, not all of them, the really smarts one do.
On the cycles, yes thermal cycling is the worse. However thermal stress occurs anyway, is just that there's a sweet spot were degradation is minimum, any degree more or less will short life span. Thermal cycling just made it way worse.
Yeah a used card from a miner is the best scenario for a used card. Fans might be the only thing one would need to fix
There’s no way you can be sure of the environment a card you buy was in.
Bought 1080ti and memory was damaged. Previous owner did cryptomine on that cardy so i assume it corrupted the memory of that card. It run benchmarks with no problem, but when you start a game, it crashed immediately. So if Linus didnt test in game, this test is irrelevant for me, only that gpu clock is same
That's why you don't trust people on social media or the internet. Linus is fun to watch, but he's the last person I trust when it comes to protecting your hardware. If anything this channel is one big advertisement for products placement.
@@midnitesnac - #redpillgaming 🤣
Isn't there a benchmark that tests VRAM corruption as well? I'm about to buy a secondhand GPU, I'll test it on a PC shop (whose owner is close to my family) so it'd be nice to have a benchmark app for that.
@@Yveldi - that's incredible! I hope it goes well for you. I'm not very educated when it comes to tech. My experience is with building a computer and playing games. Luckily everything just worked for me. I basically followed a step by step computer build guide that a five-year-old could've understood.
@@Yveldi best for me was this ua-cam.com/video/QUWoz9vvHgM/v-deo.html
If Palit is testing and claiming this with their cards, I will assume it's a problem with no other brand and will avoid theirs altogether. Good information Palit.
Palit are ass lickers, plain and simple. They do it voluntarily regardless of cleanliness, and they like it. It's unfortunate at best.
Don't buy these perfectly good used cards, buy our new cards instead - Palit
They could just be referring to cards that have their thermals degrated due to heat which results in the card throttling sooner. Usually repasting and re-padding them will restore performance. DIY Miner/Gamers dont do this often but professional miners take care of their assets.
Tbh, they had the cheapest cards on the market and I had to buy them.
Ok.... Palit statement backfired...
Since when has consistently running solid state electronics at well below their rated maximum temperature and power limits caused any kind of measurable degradation in a short time period of a few years? The worst that happens to a properly configured mining card is the wear and eventual failure of the fans. If a properly configured card dies while mining than it would have died doing any other task.
It doesn’t. Ultimately it’s a gap between hardware engineers and gamers. Someone who turns on their pc every day to absolutely slam it just to turn it right off and rinse and repeat for years and years, especially as they run newer more demanding titles, is going to experience some form of performance degradation. Usually it can be chalked up to the degrading thermal performance (dust, old thermal paste etc), but power delivery systems also aren’t going to be as reliable with that sort of load cycle. To a gamer who has likely experienced degradation in their own card, it seems the most logical that a card running 24/7 in a dusty warehouse would be much worse off
the problem is buying the card from the casual miner that just pushes it to the max because the electricity is free from daddy
@@AdrianOkay pushing them to the max is just stupid and most miners run them underclocked to make them more efficient
@@AdrianOkay I hear people make that excuse but I don't see it. Even with free electricity. Pretty much every card I've ever tuned resulted in a higher hash rate and lower power consumption than stock settings. I think people that pulg in a card, fire up nicehash and let it run till it dies are such a small percentage of the total population its not even worth considering
It's a non issue. There will always be cards that show failures after a few years of usage, although that's mostly with capacitors or thermal cycling of the PCB and subsequent breakage of traces and solder. Regarding IC fabrication, engineers have for a while now found ways to effectively combat electromigration - it's not the 80s anymore. Although fan damage is an actual problem - we had a number of Zotac cards simply drop the whole fan hub after only two or three years usage in a workstation.
Better than the original floatplane title of "Mining Cards are Slower"
Came to say this.
I never knew that people actually used floatplane
People actually use Floatplane ?!
@@ananthkutuva3748 this is the first time I ever heard about it..
the house, and thought🧗♀️🤹♀️🤹♂️🤺🤾♀️🤾♂️🤽♀️
Would have been nice to see gaming framerates. Clocks are a great indicator, but FPS would have been a lot more consumable data at least, and may have shown other degradation.
Not too sure if you watched the vid or not, but He did mention in the beginning of the video why he is only testing clock speed. Because if everything else is exactly same, chip with higher clockspeed will undoubtedly perform better and net higher fps.
Your gpu will more likely die from cycles of heating and cooling vs constant temperature. Card sitting on shelf in India isn’t going to magically die. Playing intense games with low load loading screen is everyday worst case scenario of that and will kill your gpu faster vs constant heat introduced by constant mining load with 55~65% power limit.
Probably the most critical thing about used mining cards as this video pointed out would be the life of the coolers because you can’t easily go out and buy replacement fan parts or water block for them esp if gen or two older. Bad cooler => higher temp => lower clock => lower fps
@@TOPhoenix Which is completely flawed. He should have tested the hardware not the software.
LTT is known to gatekeep information so people can research
@@abdelrahmanradThe software runs on the hardware you git
Pro tip: If manufacturers don't want folks to buy mining GPU's second hand then how about manufacturing some?
yeah lol! just make some! its easy
There is no point in fully meeting the demand when you can make just enough to sell at stupidly high margins.
@@josephgoebbels1605 Yes but they could make far more by just meeting demand instead even with the extra effort that entails. The issue is that they literally can't until silicon IC manufacturers are able to gear up more production plants to meet the unexpected level of demand.
@@Fenriswaffle honestly they probably have enough dinero to make their own plant.
@@Wogix26 Why would they build their own when they already have existing agreements with TSMC which is already building additional plants. They'd just end up spending 10x the money and time building one of their own.
Plot twist : Linus is just helping his Miner friend sell his old cards 😏
just watch tech yes city he buys from miners in bulk to sell in his second hand pc building business.
This video is sponsored by "my acquaintance".
Linus has friends? 🙃
@@bobbrown8661 yes horrible alex
Community buying from each other? Companies with investors:"We can't have this!"
1060 mining for 4 years.
Zotac: its okay, we got 1 year warranty covered left.
Zotac's warranty period is a mere 6 months these days, following in the footsteps of most other GPU AIBs.
@foopyu nooui Miners are an issue, along with scalpers, and desperate gamers. The manufacturers can't keep up with the supply and demand. Though miners and scalpers at least take 65% of the cards.
@@jadenblackerby3325 msi was selling cards on ebey lmfao
@@jadenblackerby3325 Consumers are not the only ones responsible for the shortage, this is also a supply issue
@@breh4273 Which is exactly why MSI will never see a dime from me for ANY component.
Bottom line is like anything you buy online, if you take care of your stuff then it has a second use for someone else.
This stands absolutely true. I bought a used 1060 back in late 2017 and its still going strong today.
This is how I managed to get all my friends affordable graphics card upgrades during these troubling times and all of them were happy with their purchases.
How did you buy them plz can u tell me i dont have dat much money and i need a gpu
@@ahmedabdelsamei8226 probably ebay
@@ahmedabdelsamei8226 ebay
@@ahmedabdelsamei8226 eBay...
Ok thanks guys
Bought a GPU that was used for mining.
It has never given me problems and gives me more than enough fps in any game I play.
Same, got 480 that mined for nearly 2 years in 2018. It performed more than fine for another 2 years in my own PC, if anything it performed above the specs considering how responsive it was to undervolting and maintained above 1350mhz clock at just 95W peak power usage in games. Obviously also mined on it while not using the PC.
Sold it in 2020 and never heard back from the buyer apart from thanks after he confirmed that GPU is working just fine and dandy.
Later in 2020 got a deal on used 1080 that also was used for mining with only caveat being that it had replaced fans and was gp-104-400. Works just fine and dandy for the past year, boosting no problem to 1850 and higher with UV and 55% power target in games. It's also mining away at 34mh's when I don't have time to do stuff on PC or when doing office work. So far no problems.
Always bought used gpus and never cared how they were used for as long as they worked without issues. Only had problems with brand new ones in the past. Either a gpu works and then will continue to work for many years or it's crap and will die within months is my experience, regardless of how it's used.
I still have my first 480s I've bought for mining almost 5 years ago. I started off with 12 cards, one died 6 months ago. A dying mosfet decided to take a couple PCB layers with it, so it wasn't even the silicon itself that shit the bed. I feel like 1/12 in 5 years of 24/7 operation is a good quota. All the other cards run just as well as they did 5 years ago and still reach the same clocks at the same voltages, so no apparent degradation whatsoever. I recommend re-pasting and re-padding after a couple of years, though. They were completely dried out when I finally did it last year.
also its alrd OC with lower watt setting
I bought a mining 1080ti from the last crypto crash running like a champ ever since no issues.
I had almost forgotten how good the 10-series FE cards looked, damn.
Really? I didnt like the 10 or 20 series FE cards at all, but I think the 30 series FE's look freaking awesome.
pieces of art, too bad blower coolers were the meta for way, way too long
@@MP-ij8wo The 20 Super series FE cards look nice.
30 series > 20 super series > 20 series > 10 series
I prefer the simple lines of the 700 and 900 series, but yeah. Pretty sweet.
@@Dreams_Of_Lavender Yup, they look nicer than the 10 series GPUs.
Your biggest risk when buying a 2nd hand mining card is the fan burning out, running at higher clocks for longer means more heat which means boosted fan speeds to keep heat down and prolong card life.
I undervolt all of my cards. It's not worth the extra 3 mh/s to run my fans over 60%,, LOL.
I dont think that anyone who is mining is using their gpus at full load, most of them are undervolting their cards and fans are barely spinning at 50% if not less
I have a mined graphics card and i have been using it for almost a year, i think if you gonna buy a mined gpu buy a one with a good cooler mine was msi
It's like very cheap to buy replacement fans tho, and also not that hard to take apart your gpu and replace the stock ones, I have done it with 3 gpus off a 5 minute video and every one has worked better than before fans broke down.
The fan on my card died after 3 years of use. In my gaming PC. Maybe 1000 hours of actual game time.
"Sitting on a shelf not being used" I mutter to myself while sobbing cards I would sell my soul for cause I can't afford to pay double or more MSRP. This card issue has to stop soon
If soon means 2023 or 2024 then yes, it will be over soon
If you are fine with amd you can get a card for MSRP if you try enough, I got a xt 5900 and a xt 5700 Both for MSRP directly from the amd warehouse
Like it 69 times
@@LuluTheCorgi same im just about to buy a 6600 xt for msrp
Sell your whole rig online. Go MAINGEAR and buy a new PC. That's what I did. Sold a PC with a 1070TI and a R7 1700x for $2k then bought a MAINGEAR PC with 3080 and a 5900x for $2,300.
@@Crazyere I also bought a 6600 xt but for $50 more than MSRP
linus '' that is unless palit is admiting their gpu's die really quickly''
me : *stares at my palit 2070 S with pure fear*
I thought palit is his friend lol
*me : laughs nervously in 1660 S*
I'd rather not risk it.
my palit gtx 750ti died rip -.- "
my palit 560ti died a long ago, their soldering material/technique is fucking trash
Just remember to ask the seller if it was used for cryptomining, or for other types of mining as a pickaxe
@@DemeDemetre I am everywhere and nowhere
dont buy any gpus from dwarfs
GPU = Great Pickaxe Usability
A man of culture
For a second I though there was a mining software called pickaxe that was really bad for gpu health.
This is the perfect time to rewatch this video
Hehehehe
Buying a GPU from a miner is basically like buying a Xeon from a data center: literally just a good deal
People forget that miners and data centers have a quite extreme vested interest in their hardware being long lasting and not breaking. Thus is well taken care of. Much unlike a consumer who has a vested interest in wringing every penny out of their hardware and driving it into the ground.
@@Jackpkmn and keeping it undervolted to make it profitable
Not really, these card's memory has been overclocked past normal limits with custom bioses, these cards vram are ticking time bombs
@@lancer3660 no...
@@lancer3660 overclocking itself isn't actually harmful, it's high temperatures that are. Undervolting and underclocking the core significantly cools the card down and probably makes it actually better than a gamer's card.
Well, miners tend to keep the cards maintained as loss of performance means direct loss of profit.
Yes sir, I keep my cards at 48c.
PLOT TWIST: The miner gave him a NEW GPU so that people would think it's ok to buy used GPU
plot twist twist: Linus is the filthy crypto miner.
I've bought ex mining cards and used gamers cards and tbh the ex mining cards have been better. Most miners underclock and undervolt most gamer's are flogging the shit out of their card for that sweet sweet fps.
@@Aussie_aNti_h3r0 this is absolutely true assuming you got it from an actual miner not a novice who doesn't know about underclocking and undervolting. You're almost always likely to get a better card from a miner running the GPU undervolted and underclocked compared to a gamer who was pushing the voltages and clockspeeds super high on their cards while running it inside a PC with absolutely horrible airflow
@@Aussie_aNti_h3r0 there are many amateurs miners doing the opposite, overcloking the VRAM at default power limit
@@MaxC_1 overclocking doesnt hurt any gpu or cpu unless its overheat
Why would I be making 30k monthly on techhostfarms online mining service and still want to use these machines that create noises and needs heavy maintenance? I am glad I sold all my helium and bobcat miners when I started with tech host farms.
I guess your concern with buying used mining GPUs should be the reduced life of the card rather than the performance being considerably less. Interesting video!
The problem with "reduced life" is that this aspect cannot be *measured* and quantified -- unfortunately...
@@junk3386 yup! a gpu can break of its been used for gaming, moderately for 3 years, or it can break after 6 years of 24/7 mining. its immeasurable xD
I've bought one before for a cheap price and it lasted for a year. I got it for about $60 for my other pc.
there is an issue with the methodology used here. it uses essentially just ONE sample. and only from some friend of linus who probably takes care of and cools the gpu's.
a guy who drove me in his taxi the other day told me he just runs a stack of gpus with hardly any cooling in a big case. i doubt that dude's cards are in as good shape after. not everyone knows what they are doing in the mining space and a lot of people are doing dumb and destructive things.
I have bought a used GTX 670 and it lasted 4-5 years and now is stuck in idle clock speeds... Yes these GPUs have a life cycle but you don't know until it's actually broken
considering Palit's infamous card quality, i believe that their cards do indeed go bad THAT fast
Really? I still used gtx 1070 superjet stream (bought in 2017) albeit low usage.
Hopefully it can last until gpu shortage is fixed
Oh you are from early 2010?
What is it like to live in a cave? World and things has changed a lot.
As a proud owner of a 2080 from Palit: Card still runs smooth, unlike one of its fans. Nothing some percussive maintenance couldn't fix, but a few months ago (when GPU prices where peaking) it gave me a real good scare for a good hour.
Saw a review on a Palit GTX 1650, doesn't go up from 50° C. Even with their 'cheap' cooling system
this guy still living in 2010 LMAO
If the seller actively keeps his PC clean and it's well ventilated while mining, it's literally like buying a used GPU that was only for gaming. In simpler terms, what generally kills PC components (other than heat) is poor cleaning and poor cooling.
Miners typically monitor thier hardware WAY more closely than gamers do. Their cards are their business, not their toys.
@@alexcorbett139 exactly
just bougth a 6800xt for 500€ on ebay from a well known and rated seller. nearly 1 year spend mining . card looks mint, not a spec of dust. seemed like a no brainer to me
Reply to this comment after it’s all set up and you run a benchmark, then compare that benchmark to the other results with your same GPU
i'm not sure what brand of 6800 xt you got but I recently bought new PowerColor's Red dragon 6800 xt for below €500
@@jeremiahsuryanto4342 depends on location. Cheapest in my country is €650
"Don't let me scare you off world of tanks"
No, Wargaming already does that
I found the little p2w sponsor bit funny considering wargaming. Broken tier 8 prems is ow they make their money
"skill wins the battle, not money" LOL
in these days WoT have been so pay to win
Oof
World of Warships is coming.
@@NiksGaming101 I am more hurt about 'historical accuracy'
Been using a 1080ti that was used for 24/7 mining for a year. I have had the card installed and in use since 2018 with zero issues.
I think I’m speaking for everyone when I say “we need another scrap yard wars” 😄
That would be cool
Scrapyard Wars: Pandemic Panic 🤣
@@davidmartineziii7343 😂😂👍👍👍
Yeah they can get a gt 710 and a third generation i3 for a thousand dollars
Only if they do it in a US southeastern smaller city. But I doubt we will see one until late 23 early 24.
I imagine it ultimately comes down to whether the miner knows what they are doing or not. Unfortunately after the crypto craze, I have a sinking feeling that a huge chunk of miners were cryptobros who cranked the cards up to 120% voltage and didn't even think about cooling.
true
I'd actually prefer to buy a gpu from a crypto miner, as they usually have the common sense to undervolt their cards.
true, no thermal cycling, undervolt, less power draw, great temp management. it's like purchasing xeon cpu from data center.
Smart man. We generally know our way around a gpu more than most gamers. Most of us have had to mod the thermal pads so you get a free upgrade.
@@hsharma3933 yeah but most of you also modify VBIOS files for compute rather for 3D work so pepole need to learn to flash or hope they don't buy for careless person who probably made them have hassle which happend to me when i bought rx560 in 2017 from a guy who was mining,dude didn't flash it back to stock and it kept crashing because of his BS undervolt and power play tables being all sorts of fucked up to the point where i hoped gpu was gonna work
sadly it crashes at stock clocks because phat fuck managed to kill its lifespan cause "undervolting" so i would be doing a dilligence and reflashed to stock bios when selling otherwise i would be scared of unexpectedd visit from a person who got a gpu from you to tell you it crashes even if it passed expirience tests while not telling that you miners know more than gamers when esports games communities and XOC communities know far more than miners
Under volt but still within an expected operating range, correct?
@@MuhammadHanif-bx4pb not all miners treat their cards with respect, some of them pack gpus like sardines and crank mem clock to the max for max hashrate, mem are running at >100deg 24/7 (3080&3090), which will definitely cause permanent damage to those vram.
>"Heavy usage of this chip will degrade the performance by 10% per year"
>Me has been running BOINC on a poor GTX750Ti ever since I got it 7 or so years ago with no measurable performance loss
I have a poor 1030 since 4 years and it still performace bad as a new one so, time didn't degrade it
I have been running a poor imaginary 2070 super in my mind the past three years with a considerable performance BOOST when it uograded to a 3080 a few months ago.
@@alexrider6200 :-)
@@alexrider6200 ahahah holy shit lol'd hard
@@musicxxa6678 whats so funny? Im being serious
I will never buy a used mining GPU since I can't afford it!
@@DemeDemetre
Who would tho? Shitty card anyways
how old are you ?
@@leon760 3
@@itszortrax 😂
start saving and one day, you will just like I did.
My theory is that crypto mining despite using the gpu 100% 24/7 doesn’t usually start and stop the load like normal games, so the card doesn’t change temperatures too much. Less temperature change means less thermal expansion cycling and I believe this is why mining cards probably don’t degrade as much as people would think.
its the same reason old taxi's and stuff can reach 500,000 miles without any major issues becuase the motors are hardly ever stoppped and started they just run all day long arond a city
@@fujitsubo3323 Thats a good analogy I like that.
Yeah, you are exactly correct
Constant temperature changes are what caused the tear in GPU
Linus explained it in his sequel mining GPU
3080's can only change speed by 15 mhz increments, so that 15 mhz difference is entirely just randomness.
I've been buying used mining GPUs and use them for gaming for years, I've built many of my friends' rigs using said GPUs. NEVER had an issue.
Lucky you!
Bought two, had issues with both, one DOA, one dead within months.
@@giovannipomarico2035 Idk if its luck as much as knowing what to look for when buying used suff.
@@giovannipomarico2035 wow. that is sad bro
@@ponyslavestation4669 I agree, I always test the stuff before I buy it. Look at the screws, check the fan speeds, noise level, some benchmark, etc.
@@MarwanMahdy At least I got a refund for the DOA one, better than nothing ^^
Buying mined cards is fine, I’ve been using a mined on 2080 for about a year and a half now and it hasn’t given me any problems. If in doubt though it’s always good to clean out a used card no matter who you’re buying from.
Since a worked for years as an integrator i can tell you, you get more DOA stuff than any issues with used parts. And the nice plot here, gaming GPUs are way more done than any mining gpu i´ve seen so far. We calculated the "electrical migration" and a gaming GPU with an average usage of 8h per day equals a 24/7 Mining Card.
Cant understand the ppl, which spend over 1K for a freaking RX6800 when you could get a used 6900XT for 50-100€ less.. "but the warranty".. yeah, fuck your warranty, which takes so long that you need to buy a new part anyway if you dont want to wait a decade (Asus for example).
I always took the "risk" and got rewarded so many times.. 7820X with 4GHz allcore static at 0.98V.. 6600K 4960MHz at 1.33V.. GTX1070 with 2105/2500MHz ingame stable, twice a R9 290 with 1250MHz (back then they had a "lock" at 1098-1100MHz).. for me there is no reason to buy new parts besides from psu´s and ssd´s.
@MisterQuake
That's great that things worked out for you, but many miners don't take care of their GPUs.
They can easily clean them before selling them.
If your not getting a huge discount it's not worth the risk to buy a used GPU.
I guess the main issue is you have no idea if the miner has looked after them or thrashed them. It's less likely with just a regular gaming user
How much did it cost
@@irfannasim9092 I got mine for 500 pre COVID, it was the Zotac AMP model. I’ve also overclocked it.
My 1070 ti was mined for a while. literally the only wear it has is actually on the fans, mechanical wear. they rattle and I had to service them.
Because you didnt exploited it exhaustively in the extreme condition like those professional big miner
"The flood of mining GPUs is inevitably coming"
- HODL
Exactly. Is it?
@@matthijsborgdorff7766 it is joe mama
It is inevitably coming, the big coin that most of these gpus are mining is about to go proof of stake within the next couple of years and that will undercut the value of gpus for crypto even if the market never crashes.
VoiceInTheBox yeah just wait several years don’t worry guys
@@matthijsborgdorff7766 It came before, it will come again
I wish I had these videos when I was having an argument with a "computer scientist" who insisted the gpu degraded crazily without any evidence. I just couldn't find this because I usually search for articles vs UA-camrs. Linus has covered this multiple times now and people still buy the FUD.
More GPUs for us when the market crashes. Those nerds will be too scared the card mined previously to buy it.
Was kinda hoping he'd mention most miners tend to run them with lower power (though boosted memory) because they work faster for that particular task, and they last longer if you're not cooking them.
@@hellomark1 he can't verify that
Hey, just wanted to let you know they do degrade even if they are kept in tip top condition but the thing is its not by much and would only be noticeable if you had a long standing heavy oc making it a non issue for anyone but competitive overclockers
To be fair, as Linus said, it depends on how well maintained the card was.
Building a PC in 2021 was a mistake.
Just wait 5 years
Rtx 980s are still reasonable right now.
Its easy if you enjoy setting money on fire. Ive built 2
Idk what you did wrong but my 2021 built pc's are paying my rent
@@Soutfast How?
I have a mechatronics degree and I totally agree with this glad that you pointed out the condition of the fins it is definitely is something to look out for when buying a used gpu wether if it was or wasn't mined on mining affects the card as much as gaming on it also if it was overclocked that's also bad but overall the conditions of the fins usually tell the story because when the metal fins get heated above what it was designed for usually it gets corroded
a used GT 710 mining edition still sounds like something I would stay away from... though not for the mining part.
ua-cam.com/video/Skx0z-gPkrA/v-deo.html&ab_channel=sagemaster
but what about a GT210?
@@DemeDemetre intel gpus suck, even mid range amd igpus are better
I have a gt 630 but my pc is broken only the 630 survie
@@user-bk7ys5cv6b intel doesnt have any dgpus.
Linus: "To finally turn the tables on those filthy filthy miners"
Mom: "Sounds like he can't get his kids to take a bath either"
Me: "Miners not Minors"
Mom: "What??"
Same thing in some parts of the world
HEhehehe
@@AigisSSBM LOL
Me: Knock it off, mom
I think you just admitted to being dirty?
One minor point, when you mention thermal expansion/contraction as a reason electronics with no moving parts wear out.... that doesn't apply to a GPU that is being run 24/7 because it doesn't experience the expansion/contraction cycle. It is like the old incandescent bulb that is turned on and left on so that it lasts longer than the ones that go on and off multiple times a day.
Their are two main things that are likely to go bad over time from teh constant use... any capacitors that may exist on the card as capacitors are designed to last specific amount of usage, and the bearings in the cooling fans.
Actually it does experience thermal hysteresis, unless you have your room temperature kept in a single value or a low range variation
@@engenheirometaleiro2268 gpu's have target temperatures in mining programs that they maintain by adjusting the fan speed. Colder room = less fan. Hotter room= more fan. This allows the card to stay at a constant temperature ensuring it mines the most efficiently it can without stale shares.
@@reidgleason7862 fans suck ass at keeping constant temps
@@engenheirometaleiro2268 A very very SMALL amount of it, compared to normal "shut the machine down daily" usage - even *if* the fan is set up for a constant speed.
. a,? cop pp😊😊
Well, I'm not a manufacturer, just a guy working in computer repair, and I always advise people to be wary of buying used graphics cards, especially ones used for mining. Case in point: we had a customer come in with an RTX 2060 that he bought online, but it would crash or not even display output. After some testing, we finally disassembled it and found out why. Some of the VRM's and capacitors had been completely snipped off, probably to limit the power draw. Now he's out whatever he spent on the card, because it's highly unlikely he's getting his money back.
Buyer beware.
Yes. Thats why i would not buy used gpu’s because you dont know what they did with it
Ok, thats weird. my RIG with 8 rtx 20 series cards are already second hand bought and they boost at the same speed as a new one...
Intentionally removing the vrm makes literally no sense
@@xerxes876 I can't think of any other reason they would do it, except for mining (and that's merely speculation on my part). All I know is that they were obviously clipped off the board. They didn't even bother to unsolder the points sticking up out.
@@noel.sk03 shouldn't even work with missing vrms lmao ..Sounds sus to me
Free tech tip:
Ex-mining GPUs may have an altered BIOS. If you don't know how to restore the original BIOS, ask the seller to do it for you. Otherwise, the card may be undetectable by your PC. Ask me how I know.
No... you werent a... were you?
@@vorandhiweeratunga6496 My 980Ti broke so I got a 2nd hand RX580 😅 I don't mine. Not sure if that's what you're implying
Ex mining amd gpu's more specifically*
They don't necessarily have one, that is extremely common on AMD cards, but not nearly as common on NVIDIA cards. This is because AMD cards get a 20% mining efficiency boost from the altered bios, but I don't know of any of my mining friends altering their bios. Think about how Nice Hash is trying to make it super easy for every gamer to mine, none of those people are altering their bios.
How do u know
Gamers card: Full of dust, ran hot and turned on and off allot (turning on and off is the main cause of component failure)
Miners card: kept cool, cleaned regularly and undervolted
But we gamer's are also utilising it in the way how it is supposed to be
Also miners Card: often not cooled properly, overclocked and used for 3x as long each day
@@whwhwhhwhhhwhdldkjdsnsjsks6544 dumb miners do that probably running them at 100% costs a lot more energy and can kill the cards so they have to reinvest xd
@@b-beluga4510 a GPU is not just to play videogames, it's a computer unit and u can choose what to do with it
@@whwhwhhwhhhwhdldkjdsnsjsks6544
And in general second hand stuff is often damaged or in bad shape. What miners and people in general are doing with unstable cards etc.? They are selling them! Another thing is that people are planning this from the start. I saw how render farms do it - they don't care if processors or graphic cards survive for long time because they will have new faster stuff soon anyway and components that have some issues are slowly sold one by one. There are professional scammers who are selling whole PC builds with swapped components. Majority of people know nothing about computers and it's insane how often it's exploited. You can find shell companies that use "hit and run strategy" - they are selling horrible shit on mass, then close bussines and open new bussines again...
Obviously Palit has thoroughly tested their cards and we can trust them 100% when they say that their cards degrade by 10% per year, unlike pretty much any other brand's cards.
It's so honest of them to admit it!
As a one-time former owner of a pallit GTX 570 card i can confirm it died after 4 year's. And that has never happened to me either before or after.
@@RonnyJakobsson So now we know it's somewhere between 10% and 25%. Wow, good info on the Palit cards. There should be an expose!
dishonest company being dishonest
They're admitting their cooling solution is s*** and their cards are basically running too hot.
@@tjroelsma I'd say that's better for us since we'd know for sure what we're buying
9:47
"The flood of used GPUs that is undoubtedly coming"
It's not coming. No one is going to sell their 3000 series
They will when the next gen of gpu come
@@thiskneegrow They won't. They'll just buy more GPU to increase their income.
Ethereum mining will stop when eth2.0 releases, and when the crypto bear market comes. Of course a miner with 10+ cards will sell them if they are not profitable anymore.
@@stnhls crypto bear market? Please go and tell this to the major financial organizations buy crypto like crazy
aged like milk
Meanwhile I am basically sitting here with an old gtx 1070, under full load every day for literal years ,without having any kind of performance drop that is either visible or shown in any benchmark software I tested so far. GPUs aren't as vulnerable as some people might think.
You're right. They're made to be tortured and withstand high temps that would cook most components.
Speaking of Palit, the only graphics card I've ever owned that has straight up died on me, was a Palit GTX 1080 Gamerock.
Damn F
I have the same card and bought it right when it came out. It has been running OC'ed with a 17% voltage increase since then and still going strong. Temps don't go over 73 during extended stress testing.
i had a palit 9800gt and a 560ti. i had them till i switched to a new pc back in 2013. bought an msi 760 that crapped itself twice in the course of 2 years. 1st was replaced brand new. replacement unit garbaged display too within the year. it was also replaced by another unit. then i switched to galax 1060. no issue for 3 years. now im using pny 3080.
Had a Palit 1080 ti Jetstream running OC'd and sold it still working fine after three years of usage. So can't complain about Palit.
So it evolved from rock to a brick.
i miss the days when you could get used mining cards for dirt cheap, good times.
ua-cam.com/video/Skx0z-gPkrA/v-deo.html&ab_channel=sagemaster
me too! I bought RX580 4G for 60USD here back in early 2020. My manager at work had it even better, the same for 50USD in 2019 which then burned and he spent another 50USD to buy another one. When the GPU crisis comes, people bought broken GPU for sky high price to repair , he sold the burned RX580 for 150USD!!!
@@locnguyen97 Got my rx 480 8gb for 75 $ around 2020. Best deal of my life
I remember getting over 20 GTX 1070s for my office workstations for $160 each, and a bunch of replacement fans from ebay for less than $100. I only had to replace one pair of fans so far. They're all still working fine and are more than profitable for the business.
eth is stopping but miners will goto other coins.
1. Mining GPUs are typically undervolted 2. They are on 24/7 for the most part and don't typically thermal cycle. As long as they're cared for and aren't dusty as heck and moderately taken care of it's fine.
But how about their capacitors, and any other component that does not like being soaked in heat for extended periods?
A used GPU is like a used car, some take care of it, some use it in the desert full pedal full of dust and clean it just before selling it.
Buying a properly maintained GPU from a miner is like buying an old Crown Victoria Police interceptor.
Copied comment
@@Adrianwe44 but is it something good or bad ? iam from germany so idk
@@mrn234 Also from Germany but I guess these things are driven like they were stolen. As far as I know, they are also considered "tanks".
@@mrn234 ich auch. Ist halt sehr unkreativ
Investing in a 1080ti might've been the best decision I've ever made.
same lol
Mine is giving up I need a replacement lol
I wish i did when the price was right. Instead i bought a 1070 for only $100 less than the 1080 ti price months before. Even then my 1070 was way cheaper than the horrible prices of today. So glad i didn’t hold off replacing my r9 270. Otherwise i would have played all my current games at low to mid settings.
1080ti lmao
Similar here. Just bought a used but clean 1080 pretty cheap early this year. Runs perfectly and is great for 1080p gaming
Miners: Time to upgrade all my gpu's.
Gamers: Finally the flood of used gpu's.
Also Miners: Time to build more rigs to house both new and old cards.
@@st181036 how will it go away?
Why don't you say "Miner's" , "Gamer's" , "rig's" and "card's" since you like the apostrophe so much :D
@@filipryba9612 Apostrophes are in most cases not used for plurals.
@@filipryba9612 The way you use apostrophes there, defines those words as possessive, which would be incorrect.
@@chitorunya i know. It was sarcasm. The main comment had way too many apostrophes in it before, he removed some apparently. Now it's just gpu's which sounds and looks stupid but technically isn't incorrect.
I'll never buy from miners, cuz I don't want to give them my money. Screw those guys.
based
Legend
So you like more to buy a graphic card from a person that bought it at the suggested price and sell it to you at double price. Choises...
How the fuck would you know if miner doesn't *choose* to reveal it to you that he is in fact a miner?
@@Tome4kkkk Simply not buy second hand for a while, same thing that some ps5 users do, only buy from well known retailers.
A smart miner usually underclocks his graphic card, so it uses less voltage, but still give a solid amount of mining power, so the profit actually is higher than it would be when using in stock settings. So a card that has been used heavily in current gen games, is most likely a worse option to buy in second hand, than a mining card, which ran underclocked in constant usage.
I've been saying this since 2017, but I bet most miners take better care of their cards than majority of gamers.
Operating word here is "smart". You have no way to know HOW the miner used the card.
@@mdbk2
what is termal cycles?
@@ssllsg9439 from room temp to max temp and then back to room temp is thermal cycle, when gaming your card went from 20celcius to 90 in game and then back to 20 when the game is loading-that 1 cycle, and like Mbdk2 said, it could be over 100 cycles per month for an average gamer
@@huyduongquang1438 what if the temp only rises to 70-80 c? does that considered to be a complete thermal cycle as well?
I have been mining on my GTX1070 since I bought it when not gaming, so over 4 years, and the performance is the same, also I can overclock the memory higher than when the card was new, using the newer drivers, I had tried with the original driver that came in the DVD and I couldn't get those overclocks without crashing, so no performance degradation.
@Samurai Shampoo In 4 years I make 2.1ETH and I sold it a few months ago for $7200, so yes it was really worth it, the card was around $700 in my country so it makes over 10 times the cost of the card, and I only mine on winter (around 9 months per year) while not gaming. Electricity here is really cheap, so I don't take it as a cost, is like $0.022 per kw and my system uses around 225W mining with the configuration I use, so if I mine 18 hours per day, monthly electricity cost related to mining will be only $2.7
I GUARANTEE it’s in better shape than my 1070 that I’ve had running for 24:7 for 4 years also, but for gaming constantly (whenever I’m not gaming I run Minecraft afk farms on my two accounts so I am always profiting but also wearing out the cards)
Smh I didn’t even think of the wear on the card
You know those cards that are just sitting on the shelf in your storeroom? Well, I was just thinking....
ill have the 3080 u can have the 1060
The main reason to never buy an ex mining card would be to ensure that they profit no further from the difficulties they have caused gamers.
yess fuck those miners
Another would be that if you all start buying up second-hand cards you will send a signal as a market that you're content with being second-hand consumers.
WTF, mining = gaming, same shit, either activity is not developmental
@@tomcat6186 You can work for money and game in your free time. Because resource and energy are limited, and we do not have a surplus of renewable energy still, mining is a form of speculation which is against common welfare. A Chinese study says that China cannot reach their climate protection goals if cryptomining is to continue.
Honestly, if they are selling them for 10-20% of the original (not inflated) price, through ebay where I can get refunded if it doesn't work, then sure, I will take a 2080 for $50.
what about the memory frequency of mining GPUs?does it reach the advertised frequency?, the most component that dies on these GPUs are the memory chips, for example the rx 580 which is used a lot by miners, has no vram sensor, the gpu core's temperature could be in the safe range, but vram will be extremely hot because mining stresses the vram more than the gpu core
Good point
Especially a case with a 3080/3090 those can easily have their memory constantly sit at 105c
If the gpu memory wasnt in the safe range it would throw errors or perform slowly and the miner would be taking a look at the card. Typically only memory which is bare with no fan will be at risk of degredation or failure.
on most of the 30 series card i’ve seen and held, the ram is directly onto the plate of the heatsink just like the gpu die, so generally you get the same cooling on the memory, and since the die is sipping power, the most heat producing thing becomes the memory, which is cooled by the heatsink. so i’d thing they’re fine. plus most programs show the vram temp and have alarms.
and on RTX 3080 cards, miner mostly look at the Vram Temps.
I have had 3 rx480s that I bought from miners that have failed due to vram artifacting, its plain and simple, wait it out, dont buy used cards from miners
Currently still rocking my 1080 Duke that I rescued from the mines.
I hear that... 5 years and still going strong
Im using a rx570 8gb oc
what fps do u get on warzone?
I never expect the GPU core to be the part that dies in old mining cards, I would be more afraid of the power delivery giving up after running 24/7 for years in possibly hot temperatures. Or the memory dying. Or the fans dying (sure, they can be replaced but it's quite a hassle to find replacement fans and it costs extra). It has to be REALLY cheap to be worth the risk as Linus said. I'm not gonna be accepting a 10-20% discount for the unknown reduction in lifespan of the card.
Mining is almost as intense as gaming but it's done 24/7. As long the thermals for the card are good, they should be ok. Most miners wouldn't fry their card cuz then they'd have to buy new cards and lose profit
@@ZastropollyonZ "Most" is not good enough for investing in hundreds worth of dollars. What if that "most" fails? It's a gambling at this point, a bad one at that.
@@reftu7856 some miners are stupid enough to overclock their GPU at 100%
@@ZastropollyonZ You do know that undervolting them is a thing right?
@@BiologistRyan yep
honestly at this point, I dont care if old mining cards preform just as well as a new card straight out of the box, Im not buying a used mining card. Miners and scalpers have screwed the graphics card market for over two years now to where I havent been able to upgrade from my old 970. Im not buying something these guys are selling second hand. Period.
I am if they give me a compensation for the 2 year wait, that is a heavy discount
@@Nu-mii I'm in the same boat with a 960. I was gonna upgrade the card to a 1080Ti but at this point I'm just going to go for a whole new setup
I think miners and scalpers, while exacerbate the problem, are not necessarily the sole responsible for screwing the market. Theyre just the second in line.
Global shortage of silicon, manufacturers not able to make supply, high demand, rapid technological growth are the main ones. Im saying this as a reminder to others and to myself mostly, its easy to forget
@@WingMaster562 yeah it's usually multiple unexpected problems when a business fails that hard to meet supply. They probably had plans for the crypto bubble because it wasn't completely unprecedented
They run hot and at high heat so it’s not a performance issue but longevity. Heat kills components faster so the card is way more likely to fail sooner, especially since the last wave of miners are outdated fad idiots who somehow convinced themselves inefficient GPU mining gets more bitcoins than SHA256 ASIC rigs.
The issue is not whether the performance degrades. The lifespan of the GPU is severely harmed by being run at high temperatures for long periods of time. There is also the issue of tin whiskers which pretty much kill all silicon eventually. Buying used is fine (especially when the original user treats it well), but buying a used mining GPU is akin to buying a used car with a salvage title. It may work out fine for you, but it really isn't worth the risk. Only buy used cards in which their original owner took care of it.
Yeah... except miners are almost definitely running their cards cooler and maintaining them better than gamers are. Not to mention a card running at a constant steady pace likely experiences less wear than a gaming card going through constant stress cycles.
Tin whiskers?
What's this, the 70's?
Tin whiskers develop on pure tin surfaces, and I don't know about you but it's pretty rare to find pure tin inside silicon chips.
Tin whiskers haven't been an issue for decades, so I don't know wtf are you smoking.
Linus: " skills wins the battle, not the money"
Are we talking about Linus' screenshot skills?
@F**СК МЕ - СНЕCK MY РR0FILЕ what
@@koishikomeiji6969 It's two spam bot accounts.
Sometimes you just have to use common sense (I know, it's not very common). If mining GPUs degrade to the point some say it does, then the used GPU market would be flooded with reports of many many dead or dying used GPUs. There's very little evidence that has been the case.
To me it's not about the new or old, i just don't want to give money to scalpers or any exminers.
If they aren't scalping price why not buy from miners? I don't see an issue with mining as long as you don't charge too much to buy.
@@phenomenologicalparadox5216 Why? Because how they behaved and and laughed at people when the cards were expensive like never before and crypto didn't crash yet. I know that some of you have absolutely none dignity or pride in yourself, but i am simply not going to give them money, making them even more profits.
If their cards degrade significantly with heavy use, that's a warning not to buy their cards.
This might be statistically "true" IF around 10% of the cards die every year, AND they are included in the numbers as running at 0%. Out of 100 cards: (90 x 100% speed) + (10 x 0% speed) / 100 = 90% speed on average. This is why stats teachers always say: "Average without variance is worthless." And that's the kind of thing I've seen "confused*" marketing people do. (* - Being kind.)
There is no way 10% of GPUs die per year of continuous usage. RMA rates would be abhorrent.
They don't. Miner here, we take care of the cards. They run at 60-80% power limits most of the time with highly controlled temperature ranged. My gaming rig has a 3080 which comes from one of the rigs and is still mining when I'm not playing games. Wait for the massive dump and buy sh GPUs
Lol Brownie if they made that mistake, people at Palit must have sh!t for braind because that is a stupid mistake to make.
I dont think anyone working there would make such a stupid mistake - it's just good old fashioned gaslighting and lying to the consumer so he/she can pull the trigger on a new GPU purchase that much quicker
Etherum mining is stressing the video memory not the GPU. When I mined on my 5700 the gpu ran at 55-60°C but the memory ran at 90-95°C and thats pretty close to the 110°C tripping temp. And its a GDDR6 I saw on mining forums that GDDRX6 runs significantly hotter 100-105°C. So its not about performance loss its about the potential memory module failure.
It's a constant temperature though and that's the key point, what will kill a chip is large heat swings causing thermal expansion and contraction.
Linus don't know a damn about the hardware. He's just a normie who makes money from ads and paid reviews. For his mind it's a good deal to buy a half dead gpu without even knowing how to test it properly lol
This was fascinating. With the 4000 series so overpriced, I've been looking at used 3090s for a decent upgrade. There are 3090s going for almost half the price of a 4080s. So kinda feels like a no-brainer.
you can find non-mining used ones for like 1K even on surface level stores. Very much so the better idea.
@@frumentarii7383 all the hate for the 4000 series cards is because of the whole "way overpriced for the performance gain" and "way too much money for an 80 class and 70 class card". The prices, while they are different in different markets, are still not good no matter how you look at them. a 3090 for 2000 dollars vs a 4080 for 1200 is not because of the actual price of them, but instead the fact that the old cards havent been adjusted properly, as the 3090 should be priced accordingly to that.
@@docn1ght 4090 is 30-50% faster than 3090. 4080 is also faster than 3090. 4070ti matches the 3090. 4070 matches the 3080 ti.
Stop regurgitating that bullshit. These cards perform appropriately and are incredibly efficient. Just say you can’t afford it. PC gaming doesn’t need brokies holding up graphical fidelity.
@@DeathFanatic amd gpus:
@Frumentarii truth
"thermal expansion & contraction"
Me with a gpu mining at exactly 65c for a year: interesting. I bet mine are better than a gaming one that fluctuate everywhere
One of the more common failures is BGA components like the GPU die or more likely the memory dying, because those tiny solder balls below the package start cracking from all the heat cycles combined with cooler pressure. So yeah, that's certainly less of an issue with mining cards.
I've always said this; Miner's have one thing in mind, profit (yes yes some do it because support some blockchain this is oversimplification) So it's in their best interest to A: Have their cards draw as little power as possible while retaining most of the hasrate (So, less electron-derived degration) B: Keep their cards running as long as possible (Because until you hit ROI you are basically in the red and buying another one after 8 months is not wise) and C: Keeping them as cool as possible (Related to A and B; a hotter card draws more energy to maintain the same hashrate and it degrades them faster). I have a friend who keeps an old 660 mining just because it his first GPU and we have compared it with reviews at the time and it hasn't lost a single FPS
@@MrMarcost2 Right on point but try explaining this to ur average consumer aka the brainless apes.
4:49 I love how Linus has actually evolved to the point he doesn't need to be holding something to drop it.
Also, how exactly do you guys not classify moving electrons as a moving part?
because you just dont you wouldnt say that a copper wire is a mechanical device because you just dont its just how things are said a mechanical device is usually a device with an actual moving part like a spinning disk hard drive
@@FirstnameLastName-mr8lk Meh. Physics taught me differently from you I guess.
@@TheZoenGaming There's actually debate as to whether electrons actually exist/how electricity and magnetism actually work. The standard model assumes everything is made of particles in which case electrons and photons have to exist to explain electricity and electromagnetism but there are some alternative suggestions. Honestly I've not dived too deep into the alternative theories myself but there are definitely some issues with the standard model at the smallest (quantum) scales. When reading explanations on how and why certain EM properties work I've consistently found the explanations are either all about the ways EM waves behave (like how polarization works) or all about how EM particles behave (slit experiment) with no real connection between them (that connection is something I tried to look up which is where I learned about alternative theories). I've heard it said that if anyone claims to know how quantum physics actually works they are either full of shit or some sort of omniscient god.
@@grn1 I suggest you look up how Electron Microscopes work and what they are capable of showing before saying that. Yes, how the universe works is still a mystery, and no one has been able to give a simple unified theory that shows how all things interact. Unfortunately, nothing actually says that we ever will know these things, and there's always the chance that the universe is complicated to the point that a simple unified theory is not possible. Quantum physics is a creation of humans, so of course it can be understood by humans. Some people just can't wrap their heads around the idea that time is acausal.
So with your logic, literally everything has moving parts and we have to distinguish things by saying “moving parts” and “large collections of moving parts that move in uniform together”? That sounds way more logical
Anyone who's in the mining business knows, that the single most common point of failure for cards used 24/7 is the cooling. That's why you either run cards with non-stock fans from day 0 and replace those fans on a regular basis, or at least keep the fans at minimum. Since most cards in mining rigs run at lower than nominal TDP (mining sweet-spot is usually at around 60% TDP) keeping fans at low speed is quite easy. What I would check for sure if I were conducting this test, would be memory on ATI cards that's been used for ETH mining. This currency is very memory-depentent and VRAM has a lifespan. Not sure how to check it though - anyone knows an equivalent of MEMTEST86+ for GPU-s?
I still would never buy a used mining card.
Bought 2 so far, both had artifacts issues... So there's that.
Yeah... Very odd linus didn't mention that. The memory and memory controllers are the things that get cooked on mining cards. It's not a bad idea to look at the pcb and check for discoloration/signs of high heat around the edges of the die (the rubbery stuff), the memory chips themselves and the VRMs if the seller lets you. Avoided more than 1 bad card that way.
It's an easy fix if the card still works, though. Lower memory clockspeed until the artifacts go away.
@@LiveType That was one of the first things he did mention 2:15
But it wasn't because it's mining I have one with artifacts and I've never mined in it, and I have a 1060 6GB that mines since 2016 and it has absolutely no problems, so much so that in some games I even use overcloks without any problem.
Nobody sells a WORKING mining card these days. Unless dying of cancer or something.
@@VEVOsdead True, but he neglected the most important word in those sentences, "memory" and then proceeded to solely focus on gpu clockspeeds which certainly can lead to artifacting, but no miner is pushing gpu clocks. The gpu pipeline barely, and I mean barely gets used while mining. That's the frustrating thing about LTT. They usually get the info right, but not how or why it's important in the first place aside from a ultra surface level stuff such as more clocks = more better which if you're watching this channel I would think you at least have some sort of understanding of. I mean I understand that's the target audience of the channel, but it frustrates the hell out of my how insistent they are with the "mainstream-ness". I'll still watch though.
Also, furmark is a bad example because modern gpus will detect furmark and automatically lower clocks somewhat. Trust me I've done everything Linus did here and it's not a reliable way to tell if a gpu is "good". Had gpus pass as much furmark as you can throw at them only to crash the instant a 3d frame gets rendered in battlefield. Furmark is primarily used to measure the absolute max power a gpu can draw. It's a power delivery test, not clock stability test. A 30 min loop of timespy extreme is way way more predictive if you actually want to test the clock stability of a card.
I mean, depending on budget and what you're upgrading from, even a card with 10% loss might still bit 290% or even 390% better than your old one if you are looking for a used one
Good POINT
Yup. A POS 2020 PC is usually always better then a 2011 top of line PC.
@@moguldamongrel3054 I had 2011 top line PC back then. even 2014 pc's are better than my top line pc.
@@furkoq bought a mid range phone a few years back for like a couple hundred. It broke. I replaced it a few years later with a cheapo phone that had better all around performance for like 60 bucks.
I swear they should have stuck with keeping things modular, so that as technology progressed, you as the consumer could just buy a better cpu, or gpu, or ram without having to scrap your whole system. It's one of the few great things about full PCs.
It would also make more money in the long run, and add more competition amongst the various phone/tablet/laptop providers. Kinda like Nvidia and AMD have right now. It would also open the door for foreign manufacturers to compete for a slot in your upgrade list. Which also means those products have to be comparable to Nvidia and AMD. Not crappy Chinese bootlegs. No offense of course, bootlegs are a big business but it's just better business to not fuq people over.
Money does strange things to people. Which is odd cause their are so many non scummy ways to make money. Cough apple cough...
@@moguldamongrel3054 Dude you literally explained the world tech business system
See, I honestly appreciate this kind of video. Its information that many need and want but very few have access to,
BUT at the same, time, the minute this video gains any kind of traction, 90% of the used card list will bump up in price, so it'll in effect not "fix" the lacking card problem *as much*. Its a double edged sword if i've ever seen one.
not really, when the mining crash happens, they know that mostly no one will want to buy a used card.
To be totally fair, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. Not having this info could do more harm than good. This info doesn't matter until the crash happens and, when it does, I would think people trying to liquidate cards, if it happened as fast as it did last time, wouldn't dare try to raise prices because their competitors might saturate the market before they do, and thus would be left with hundreds of cards they don't want.
So sure, some people will bump up their prices with the trust in used cards going up, but until GPUs are readily available again GPUs weren't going to be affordable anyway. Any rise in price this video makes will be circumstantial at best.
@@iamv0id202 wrong. Naive.
what
That would only happen of more people are willing to buy a used card because of having better info. So I don't see how it's a loss
I can't remember when last I used physical machines for mining. I will stick with tech host farms' cloud mining services they are the best.
teach me the ways
Losing GPU performance because of mining makes obviously no sense. What could happen is that their lifespan is shortened (especially of the memory because that is used for mining) or that the performance drops because the cooling solution is degrading and therefore the clocks would be lower.
World of Tanks where skills win the match not money,
Cries tears of GOLD shells.
I bought an RX 570 heavily used for mining. Running it on overclocked mode for the past year and it's been great!
I had a RX 580 8GB which spent years on mining. Worked perfectly fine, overclocked perfectly fine and I was having a blast with it. Shame that I sold it though.
Me too, I bought it for 100usd about 2 years ago and now I've sold it for 400usd without problems
@@TheKelz Did you upgrade? I'm looking for a 3060 now. Price is always above $800 here in my country.
@@zaki_1337 sorry, I tried to write without problems
@@zaki_1337 Nah I sold it a bit before prices blew up, I was planning to get another RX 580 but at that time I needed money and that's why I sold it, then when I finally was about to buy the card I realized prices are thrice as high and now I'm running with an iGPU lol
Mining puts the main pressure on the RAMs while the fan rotation speed and card temperature are based on the GPU temperature.
Because the GPU does not work much, it causes the temperature to be low and the fans to operate at low speeds, while the RAMs receive very high temperatures due to heavy mathematical activity and calculations. They become very vulnerable and their useful life is greatly reduced and they become like coal