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This is making me wonder about the kind of listening prayer I was taught. It never went as far as repeated mantras and condemned that, but I was taught a version of lectio divina where we read some scripture, and we were supposed to actually pray verbally before trying to listen. To focus myself, I just wrote my prayers down and then listened but it wasn’t exactly a technique. I haven’t done it in a while. If I can’t focus, I stick with verbal prayer because I don’t trust my imagination not to just fill in gaps. The thing that concerns me is that if listening isn’t it, and all we can do is talk and read, how do you get answers to your questions? I just assumed that if it contradicts the Bible, it’s in my brain. I was also taught to ask for protection from other spirits. I’m not saying Marsha is wrong. I think I agree. But for example, when I have multiple paths ahead of me and I don’t know which direction to take; there is no way to get the answer from the Bible (for example, which novel to write). I don’t know how to understand what God wants from me aside from whims, which also seems wrong.
Around 13, Marcia talks about how one should just "read the word" when one is distracted, then previously criticized Visio Divina which is pretty much exactly what she was suggesting. I think the problem with Contemplative Practice in general (not just Contemplative Prayer) is that it has been co-opted by New Age thinkers in pretty subtle ways. The history of the practice I think shows it to be quite spiritual and reflective, but since Protestants have pretty much thrown away everything about Church history (like the wisdom of the Desert Fathers, where most of this comes from), the entire practice basically just becomes new age Jungian thinking. (Yes I am a prot :)) However because the distinction is so nuanced, I think it is probably safer overall for the church to come out against Contemplative Practice. It definitely is not for everyone, and a lot of people I think are prone to falling into New Age. For those that don't, I think it can generally be a great addition to your spiritual disciplines. Also, in Part 1 Marcia made a pretty bold and definitive statement that all of the verses and scriptural passages used by Contemplative Practice people is taken out of context - that is quite a strong (and I believe totally unfounded) statement that she needs to back up.
First time I'm hearing this so this comment is based on this video and I want to say that I truly appreciate Marcia and the hosts. I hope there will be more videos. Also, I'm not here to argue. The problem with this "contemplative prayer" comes when people think that God is going to do more for the people who do it than other manners of prayer. And also when people say you must do contemplative prayer if you want to get some sort of result (from God or something). People who say that are limiting God to acting when you perform some kind of "exercise" as opposed to God acting because He wanted to whether you're doing this "contemplative" prayer or not. If this is all about focus, then sure (I guess?) but no one should think they will gain more by doing this specific "technique" over other "techniques" that produce the same level of "focus". *And that people should be aware that it's a focusing technique and not an actual praying "technique".* God bless
Exactly. When I'm doing a formal prayer it is ALWAYS a version of that with whatever elements I'm praying on added in. When I'm doing quick spontaneous prayers I get as close to it as I can by sticking to something along the lines of Holy mighty God please cover this person or their loved ones in your grace if it be in your will please allow them to be guided by your light into you. Things along those lines. What do you do?
I've been a You Version user for years and it has greatly blessed me, however I see it taking a dangerous tilt to the New Age, first they added the Passion Translation, now they have an added feature on the home page called "Guided Prayer" which has deeply concerned me, it seems to be exactly what you're describing here with the breathing and "slowing down" (I currently have a 43 day "streak"...primarily now to confirm my suspicions.) Please investigate this since it has over half a billion subscribers!
I think one of the saddest things is that true contemplative prayer is nothing like what they are presenting as contemplative prayer. The people in this video have it right. You don’t seek it, it’s God coming to you.
Cultish has done some wonderful work in the past. Their stuff on Bethel is great, and their expertise is certainly in modern evangelicalism, specifically in America. Marcia has a great heart for this stuff and I really respect her.That said... I don't think anybody on this call really has the background or (seemingly) knowledge to talk with any authority on this topic. From the fact that they mispronounce the word contemplative itself, to not knowing who Francis DeSales is, not knowing who John Chrysostom, Basil the Great, and Gregory of Nyssa are, to calling them "desert fathers" (literally the opposite), it just seems like there's a significant lack of knowledge on church history at work here. A series on contemplative prayer sort of sets itself up to fail without at least *mentioning* Gregory Palamas, the Hesychast controversy, "prayer of the heart", the Jesus prayer, Ignatian practices, and (on the Protestant side) the Quakers and John Wesley. I realize this is only a two hour interview, but if you're going to say that a whole genre of prayer (because "contemplative prayer" is never actually defined in these videos) is related to New Age heresy, you've got to do your homework and do due diligence. I realize Apologia comes from a Reformed Baptist background and so probably wouldn't welcome interviews with Orthodox or Catholic sources, but I'd highly recommend bringing someone with the requisite education on for a more fully-rounded discussion on this topic. Maybe the Remnant Radio guys or Gavin Ortlund? Not sure who would fit the bill on the Methodist side of things. They're a bit busy internally lol Again, thanks for all Cultish does, and I say this with all respect and gratitude.
There are different ways to pronounce "contemplative," not just one way. I do know who Francis de Sales is but I did not when I saw that DVD back around 2005, and there is no reason for me to have known him at that time. Btw, I am not Reformed. This is not a Roman Catholic issue because even the Roman Catholic Church did not endorse the Centering or Contemplative Prayer organization that Keating et al founded and led. There are several articles on Roman Catholic sites critiquing it. Knowing church history is helpful but not necessary to critique the present teachings of people like Keating, Pennington, Scazzero, Comer, Ruth Haley Barton, and others. The last 3 names there are not Catholics and most who promote this that I critique are not Catholic. The bottom line is that the claims from the teachers of these methods that what they are doing is supported in the Bible is false. I have examined those claims since the 1990s.
@@TheExastrologer Not according to any dictionary I've found. :) I'm assuming this is Marcia? Thanks for all you do! :) Just to clarify, I said that Apologia comes from a Reformed Baptist position (check their statement of beliefs/the work of their elders) not you. Additionally, I never claimed it was a Roman Catholic issue? Apologies for any misunderstandings or unclear writing, but I don't see anything in my comment that would lead to that conclusion. God bless!
Nice of you to thank people - after insulting them. It's so nice to hear from an expert. But, as a lay person, I thought they made a great number of good points. Try not to over think things too much.
@@rbelf001 Where did I insult anyone? Criticism isn't insult. I'm glad you thought they made some good points! I agree. Now's a great time to dig into the further resources on the topic. :) I'd recommend starting with Wesley's sermons if you're coming from a Protestant background. Re: overthinking. I think if anything is worth thinking deeply about, it would be our proper relationship with God.
Justin Peters said “If you want to hear God speak, read your Bible. If you want to hear God audibly, read your Bible out loud. “ God wrote a book, the Bible, in it is everything we need for salvation, it’s god-breathed and the holy spirit transforms hearts and minds through the reading of His Word. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 NIV All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. And it’s sharper than any two edged sword Hebrews 4:12 Why would we need or do anything else? What an insult to a holy God. 12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart
@@metalmonkee2896 The point of prayer is to align YOU with God's will. You get to be a part of that relationship. Interaction. It's an act of loving God and neighbor. The only voice you hear back is through the Spirit when in His word.
@@robertknight3354 do you believe God only speaks through the Bible? Does he not talk to us directly? I mean I talk to God all day. Outside of my study of the word and during my prayer time. Am I hearing from myself?
Love listening to your podcasts. Wish you would link all the resources you talk about in each episode so that we the listeners could also do research. Hard to write them all down fast enough.
Silence does help foster true contemplative prayer at first. There’s so much going on around us that we can’t even connect with God sometimes unless we go by ourselves somewhere.
You are mistaken. Your claim is saying God cannot properly hear you at a specific time or occasion but that through something YOU can do you can make it possible for Him. It's just not correct but I say that with respect and with full understanding that we all come into faith through grace and that when we get together we're at different moments and growing. Bless you and your walk.
This is just common sense. I don’t think a citation is needed. Once we understand what prayer is, and understand a little about God, then we can pray and listen to God anywhere. But at first, silence is helpful to clear out the influences of the world. Do you pray with CNN blaring? Yes, of course God hears you. But just like any relationship, you are building, you just want time with that person alone.
The Church of "You Should Be Doing More." I'm going there. There is constant pressure to join a ministry, get involved. Get busy. No one asks, is this really advancing the kingdom or are we just feeling good about ourselves. If you are talking to God and He is talking with you, where does that leave me? Or everyone else? It is not a mystery why Christianity is getting smaller and smaller. The super saints are distancing themselves from everyone.
Watched both parts and it was great. Obviously, I'm not Christian - though I spent time in the Church - yet I'm very much against new age stuff. A few years ago I went through many of my beliefs and purged anything that was new age, which was anything I couldn't find in the (Hindu) scriptures, or with authoritative teachers of the past (past being 500 not 50 years ago), or not logical. I stopped doing the tarot and reading astrology. I found immediately my spirituality started to change. It was almost like those things were just a distraction (or pulling me in the opposite direction then where I wanted to go. I wanted to be humble before god, not become god and/or control god). There is a lot of new age stuff now in Hinduism, which already has a lot of non-Vedic non-scriptural superstitions, and many defend these new age additions with their life, saying its all authentic. Now, why would I care what happens to Christianity? Why would I find this video so fascinating? Because what happens to one religion happens to the others, while religions influence each other. So, if Christianity becomes corrupted to new age bogus, will Hinduism (or Buddhism or any religion) then find itself influenced by this (new) Christianity? So, then Hindus will take in Christian ideas, thinking they are legit, but really they're not. Or, to put it another way: if one of us fall, we all do. All us god believers must stand together.
Contemplative prayer does not mean you are inactive. Contemplatives are in this prayer while working, eating, talking. Mystical experiences may happen but not necessarily.
The contemplative prayer as taught by the founders of that movement and as taught in many churches now involves the techniques discussed in the video. You are supposed to still and in silence in order to be in God's presence. This is explained more in part 1.
Sounds like divination or witchcraft. Remember Nadab and Abihu... Leviticus 10:1-2 ESV [1] Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it and laid incense on it and offered unauthorized fire before the LORD, which he had not commanded them. [2] And fire came out from before the LORD and consumed them, and they died before the LORD.
What's your opinion about the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints ( Mormonism ) I know the opinion in Christianity stand point many Christians believe it's a cult but yet at the same time many Christian churches do and say things that are cultish
@@peterthomas9895 The Mormons teach a different God (he was once a man) and a different Jesus (he was created and is the brother of Satan). The LDS church does not teach biblical Christianity. I hope you search online for the Mormonism Research Ministry and read some materials there. A cult from a Christian pov means that the teachings depart from one or more essentials of the faith, and the LDS church does that.
@@peterthomas9895 Many Christian churches might do and say things that are cultish (since we all sin), but a true Christian church will always seek to conform themselves to Scripture and seek to weed out those cultish parts. God bless
True Contemplative prayer gets you so much in touch with God that you can’t be private because he loves us all each so much so you Learn to love as we stay around Jesus.
You can’t channel God, you can humble yourself. But the highest form of prayer IS speechless. Praying in the Spirit is not tongues (which is perfectly Biblical) and it’s not with words.
In talking about mantras you're all failing to take into mention that sanskrit mantras are more than just finding a hypnotic trance, but actually using the power of the words. Sanskrit is considered a magical language. Quite literally, the words have power. The Ramayana epic describes Lord Rama having weapons that are triggered not by a switch, but by saying a mantra. This type of weapon is also found in the Srimad Bhagavatam. So, mantras are not just repetition, but repetition of 'abracadabra' or 'hocus pocus'.
The context is found in Psalm 4:2 "How long, O men, will my honor be maligned? How long will you love vanity and seek after lies?" and his council to himself in Psalm 4:4 "Tremble, and do not sin; Meditate in your heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah" NASB or "Be angry, and do not sin; ponder in your own hearts on your beds, and be silent. Selah" ESV. The Psalm isn't talking about prayer it's talking about not acting rashly or out of unjust motives in response to the ungodly. Rather we "Offer the sacrifices of the righteous and trust in the LORD." 4:5 and "I will lie down and sleep in peace, for You alone, O LORD, make me dwell in safety." 4:8 so the Godly are to keep doing that which is right and required even when being maligned and attacked for doing so and rest in the knowledge and acceptance that God is in control of the attack and the eventual outcome. To say that this somehow prescribes contemplative prayer ignores the entire context and the very important lesson it is teaching us.
Contemplative prayer can be New Age. It depends on who is teaching you contemplative prayer. Contemplative prayer and its essence is surrender to Jesus and listening to him and exchanging love with him. Instead of saying words, you communicate heart to heart.
I don’t think a citation is needed for this. This is just been my experience. When you’re with a group of people who are constantly in prayer, you can communicate without words. You can’t lie that’s the downside! Smile. Same is probably true for people who have been married a long time and for friends, who can finish each other sentences. A person and God can have that kind of relationship, and the person who asked for a citation may have that as well!
@@777overjoy777 Of course citation is needed. Personal experience alone is not a reliable source for truth. Why should I believe your experience? Jesus himself always pointed to the scriptures, rather than basing his claims on his divinity.
@@gregc7517 The Ascent of Mount Carmel is not authoritative nor is it the word of God. God gave us the model for prayer in his word and Jesus himself gave the template for prayer. That is sufficient. When man tries to usurp that, then it become a problem.
Spirit to spirit. You get to know what part of you is your spirit, and how it’s different from your emotions and psyche. Your spirit grows as the Holy Spirit enlightens. It takes a lot of time and it helps if you can do inner healing with it
The Contemplative Prayer movement discussed in this video is what is being taught today as discussed here and in part 1. That is what is at issue. If you are defining it differently, then that is something else but it is not what is being taught by the contemplative teachers today who are gaining ground in the church.
Dude says uh a lot and “right” a lot, both terms used over and over really makes it seem like he is just repeating what he has learned other than actually knowing for himself.
Hey! Do you like all things cults and Christianity? You have come to the right place! To get exclusive Cultish content, subscribe to Apologia All Access for that, and more! Click here for more info.
www.apologiastudios.com/subscriptions
This is making me wonder about the kind of listening prayer I was taught. It never went as far as repeated mantras and condemned that, but I was taught a version of lectio divina where we read some scripture, and we were supposed to actually pray verbally before trying to listen. To focus myself, I just wrote my prayers down and then listened but it wasn’t exactly a technique. I haven’t done it in a while. If I can’t focus, I stick with verbal prayer because I don’t trust my imagination not to just fill in gaps.
The thing that concerns me is that if listening isn’t it, and all we can do is talk and read, how do you get answers to your questions? I just assumed that if it contradicts the Bible, it’s in my brain.
I was also taught to ask for protection from other spirits.
I’m not saying Marsha is wrong. I think I agree. But for example, when I have multiple paths ahead of me and I don’t know which direction to take; there is no way to get the answer from the Bible (for example, which novel to write). I don’t know how to understand what God wants from me aside from whims, which also seems wrong.
I participated in contemplative prayer in the past and walked away more confused and more anxious than when I started
Around 13, Marcia talks about how one should just "read the word" when one is distracted, then previously criticized Visio Divina which is pretty much exactly what she was suggesting. I think the problem with Contemplative Practice in general (not just Contemplative Prayer) is that it has been co-opted by New Age thinkers in pretty subtle ways. The history of the practice I think shows it to be quite spiritual and reflective, but since Protestants have pretty much thrown away everything about Church history (like the wisdom of the Desert Fathers, where most of this comes from), the entire practice basically just becomes new age Jungian thinking. (Yes I am a prot :))
However because the distinction is so nuanced, I think it is probably safer overall for the church to come out against Contemplative Practice. It definitely is not for everyone, and a lot of people I think are prone to falling into New Age. For those that don't, I think it can generally be a great addition to your spiritual disciplines. Also, in Part 1 Marcia made a pretty bold and definitive statement that all of the verses and scriptural passages used by Contemplative Practice people is taken out of context - that is quite a strong (and I believe totally unfounded) statement that she needs to back up.
First time I'm hearing this so this comment is based on this video and I want to say that I truly appreciate Marcia and the hosts. I hope there will be more videos.
Also, I'm not here to argue.
The problem with this "contemplative prayer" comes when people think that God is going to do more for the people who do it than other manners of prayer.
And also when people say you must do contemplative prayer if you want to get some sort of result (from God or something).
People who say that are limiting God to acting when you perform some kind of "exercise" as opposed to God acting because He wanted to whether you're doing this "contemplative" prayer or not.
If this is all about focus, then sure (I guess?) but no one should think they will gain more by doing this specific "technique" over other "techniques" that produce the same level of "focus".
*And that people should be aware that it's a focusing technique and not an actual praying "technique".*
God bless
Jesus gave us a model for prayer - The Lord’s Prayer. Honestly, this just sounds gnostic to me.
Exactly. When I'm doing a formal prayer it is ALWAYS a version of that with whatever elements I'm praying on added in.
When I'm doing quick spontaneous prayers I get as close to it as I can by sticking to something along the lines of Holy mighty God please cover this person or their loved ones in your grace if it be in your will please allow them to be guided by your light into you. Things along those lines.
What do you do?
You are right, much of it is very gnostic in nature.
I've been a You Version user for years and it has greatly blessed me, however I see it taking a dangerous tilt to the New Age, first they added the Passion Translation, now they have an added feature on the home page called "Guided Prayer" which has deeply concerned me, it seems to be exactly what you're describing here with the breathing and "slowing down" (I currently have a 43 day "streak"...primarily now to confirm my suspicions.) Please investigate this since it has over half a billion subscribers!
I think one of the saddest things is that true contemplative prayer is nothing like what they are presenting as contemplative prayer. The people in this video have it right. You don’t seek it, it’s God coming to you.
It starts with humbling yourself before a holy God. It doesn't start with you channeling the Spirit.
Ascetic fathers experiences sound similar to what happens in shamanism, visionquests, et al.
Cultish has done some wonderful work in the past. Their stuff on Bethel is great, and their expertise is certainly in modern evangelicalism, specifically in America. Marcia has a great heart for this stuff and I really respect her.That said...
I don't think anybody on this call really has the background or (seemingly) knowledge to talk with any authority on this topic. From the fact that they mispronounce the word contemplative itself, to not knowing who Francis DeSales is, not knowing who John Chrysostom, Basil the Great, and Gregory of Nyssa are, to calling them "desert fathers" (literally the opposite), it just seems like there's a significant lack of knowledge on church history at work here. A series on contemplative prayer sort of sets itself up to fail without at least *mentioning* Gregory Palamas, the Hesychast controversy, "prayer of the heart", the Jesus prayer, Ignatian practices, and (on the Protestant side) the Quakers and John Wesley.
I realize this is only a two hour interview, but if you're going to say that a whole genre of prayer (because "contemplative prayer" is never actually defined in these videos) is related to New Age heresy, you've got to do your homework and do due diligence. I realize Apologia comes from a Reformed Baptist background and so probably wouldn't welcome interviews with Orthodox or Catholic sources, but I'd highly recommend bringing someone with the requisite education on for a more fully-rounded discussion on this topic. Maybe the Remnant Radio guys or Gavin Ortlund? Not sure who would fit the bill on the Methodist side of things. They're a bit busy internally lol
Again, thanks for all Cultish does, and I say this with all respect and gratitude.
There are different ways to pronounce "contemplative," not just one way. I do know who Francis de Sales is but I did not when I saw that DVD back around 2005, and there is no reason for me to have known him at that time. Btw, I am not Reformed. This is not a Roman Catholic issue because even the Roman Catholic Church did not endorse the Centering or Contemplative Prayer organization that Keating et al founded and led. There are several articles on Roman Catholic sites critiquing it. Knowing church history is helpful but not necessary to critique the present teachings of people like Keating, Pennington, Scazzero, Comer, Ruth Haley Barton, and others. The last 3 names there are not Catholics and most who promote this that I critique are not Catholic. The bottom line is that the claims from the teachers of these methods that what they are doing is supported in the Bible is false. I have examined those claims since the 1990s.
@@TheExastrologer Not according to any dictionary I've found. :)
I'm assuming this is Marcia? Thanks for all you do! :) Just to clarify, I said that Apologia comes from a Reformed Baptist position (check their statement of beliefs/the work of their elders) not you.
Additionally, I never claimed it was a Roman Catholic issue? Apologies for any misunderstandings or unclear writing, but I don't see anything in my comment that would lead to that conclusion. God bless!
Nice of you to thank people - after insulting them. It's so nice to hear from an expert. But, as a lay person, I thought they made a great number of good points. Try not to over think things too much.
@@rbelf001 Where did I insult anyone? Criticism isn't insult. I'm glad you thought they made some good points! I agree. Now's a great time to dig into the further resources on the topic. :) I'd recommend starting with Wesley's sermons if you're coming from a Protestant background.
Re: overthinking. I think if anything is worth thinking deeply about, it would be our proper relationship with God.
Church history from which perspective?
Very informative!!
Justin Peters said “If you want to hear God speak, read your Bible. If you want to hear God audibly, read your Bible out loud. “
God wrote a book, the Bible, in it is everything we need for salvation, it’s god-breathed and the holy spirit transforms hearts and minds through the reading of His Word.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 NIV
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
And it’s sharper than any two edged sword
Hebrews 4:12
Why would we need or do anything else?
What an insult to a holy God.
12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart
Amen.
Thank you for taking the time for this comment.
Simple, correct biblically and right to the point for anyone wondering about the subject.
@@robertknight3354 thank you
What's the point of prayer then? Is the bible going to talk back?
@@metalmonkee2896 The point of prayer is to align YOU with God's will. You get to be a part of that relationship. Interaction. It's an act of loving God and neighbor.
The only voice you hear back is through the Spirit when in His word.
@@robertknight3354 do you believe God only speaks through the Bible? Does he not talk to us directly? I mean I talk to God all day. Outside of my study of the word and during my prayer time. Am I hearing from myself?
Love listening to your podcasts. Wish you would link all the resources you talk about in each episode so that we the listeners could also do research. Hard to write them all down fast enough.
where is part one?
6 videos back
Is this part 2?
Yes, part one is 6 videos back
Silence does help foster true contemplative prayer at first. There’s so much going on around us that we can’t even connect with God sometimes unless we go by ourselves somewhere.
Citation needed.
Heresy
You are mistaken.
Your claim is saying God cannot properly hear you at a specific time or occasion but that through something YOU can do you can make it possible for Him.
It's just not correct but I say that with respect and with full understanding that we all come into faith through grace and that when we get together we're at different moments and growing.
Bless you and your walk.
@@WasLostButNowAmFound define heresy
This is just common sense. I don’t think a citation is needed. Once we understand what prayer is, and understand a little about God, then we can pray and listen to God anywhere. But at first, silence is helpful to clear out the influences of the world. Do you pray with CNN blaring? Yes, of course God hears you. But just like any relationship, you are building, you just want time with that person alone.
The Church of "You Should Be Doing More." I'm going there. There is constant pressure to join a ministry, get involved. Get busy. No one asks, is this really advancing the kingdom or are we just feeling good about ourselves. If you are talking to God and He is talking with you, where does that leave me? Or everyone else? It is not a mystery why Christianity is getting smaller and smaller. The super saints are distancing themselves from everyone.
Watched both parts and it was great. Obviously, I'm not Christian - though I spent time in the Church - yet I'm very much against new age stuff. A few years ago I went through many of my beliefs and purged anything that was new age, which was anything I couldn't find in the (Hindu) scriptures, or with authoritative teachers of the past (past being 500 not 50 years ago), or not logical. I stopped doing the tarot and reading astrology. I found immediately my spirituality started to change. It was almost like those things were just a distraction (or pulling me in the opposite direction then where I wanted to go. I wanted to be humble before god, not become god and/or control god). There is a lot of new age stuff now in Hinduism, which already has a lot of non-Vedic non-scriptural superstitions, and many defend these new age additions with their life, saying its all authentic. Now, why would I care what happens to Christianity? Why would I find this video so fascinating? Because what happens to one religion happens to the others, while religions influence each other. So, if Christianity becomes corrupted to new age bogus, will Hinduism (or Buddhism or any religion) then find itself influenced by this (new) Christianity? So, then Hindus will take in Christian ideas, thinking they are legit, but really they're not. Or, to put it another way: if one of us fall, we all do. All us god believers must stand together.
Contemplative prayer does not mean you are inactive. Contemplatives are in this prayer while working, eating, talking. Mystical experiences may happen but not necessarily.
The contemplative prayer as taught by the founders of that movement and as taught in many churches now involves the techniques discussed in the video. You are supposed to still and in silence in order to be in God's presence. This is explained more in part 1.
@@TheExastrologer God bless you
Sounds like divination or witchcraft. Remember Nadab and Abihu...
Leviticus 10:1-2 ESV
[1] Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it and laid incense on it and offered unauthorized fire before the LORD, which he had not commanded them. [2] And fire came out from before the LORD and consumed them, and they died before the LORD.
True Contemplative prayer makes you more alive and increases senses. Buddhist etc. you try to dull your senses so won’t feel pain.
It literally has nothing to do with pain
What's your opinion about the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints ( Mormonism ) I know the opinion in Christianity stand point many Christians believe it's a cult but yet at the same time many Christian churches do and say things that are cultish
I still consider myself Christian but joined the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints 3yrs ago
@@peterthomas9895 The Mormons teach a different God (he was once a man) and a different Jesus (he was created and is the brother of Satan). The LDS church does not teach biblical Christianity. I hope you search online for the Mormonism Research Ministry and read some materials there. A cult from a Christian pov means that the teachings depart from one or more essentials of the faith, and the LDS church does that.
It’s most certainly a cult
@@peterthomas9895 Many Christian churches might do and say things that are cultish (since we all sin), but a true Christian church will always seek to conform themselves to Scripture and seek to weed out those cultish parts. God bless
I say pun intended just about every day!
True Contemplative prayer gets you so much in touch with God that you can’t be private because he loves us all each so much so you Learn to love as we stay around Jesus.
What is true tho? Thanks for explain YOUR truth
I don’t know if you can teach real contemplative prayer. It pretty much comes naturally
The desert fathers vied with each other to stand a long time and fast. Was too much.
We need to take care of our bodies
Read Evelyn Underhill Mysticism
You can’t channel God, you can humble yourself. But the highest form of prayer IS speechless. Praying in the Spirit is not tongues (which is perfectly Biblical) and it’s not with words.
In talking about mantras you're all failing to take into mention that sanskrit mantras are more than just finding a hypnotic trance, but actually using the power of the words. Sanskrit is considered a magical language. Quite literally, the words have power. The Ramayana epic describes Lord Rama having weapons that are triggered not by a switch, but by saying a mantra. This type of weapon is also found in the Srimad Bhagavatam. So, mantras are not just repetition, but repetition of 'abracadabra' or 'hocus pocus'.
Sufi readings are abstract and so are a lot of writings claiming to be mystic. When abstract is translated it sometimes has little substance.
The context is found in Psalm 4:2 "How long, O men, will my honor be maligned? How long will you love vanity and seek after lies?" and his council to himself in Psalm 4:4 "Tremble, and do not sin; Meditate in your heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah" NASB or "Be angry, and do not sin; ponder in your own hearts on your beds, and be silent. Selah" ESV. The Psalm isn't talking about prayer it's talking about not acting rashly or out of unjust motives in response to the ungodly. Rather we "Offer the sacrifices of the righteous and trust in the LORD." 4:5 and "I will lie down and sleep in peace, for You alone, O LORD, make me dwell in safety." 4:8 so the Godly are to keep doing that which is right and required even when being maligned and attacked for doing so and rest in the knowledge and acceptance that God is in control of the attack and the eventual outcome. To say that this somehow prescribes contemplative prayer ignores the entire context and the very important lesson it is teaching us.
Contemplative prayer can be New Age. It depends on who is teaching you contemplative prayer. Contemplative prayer and its essence is surrender to Jesus and listening to him and exchanging love with him. Instead of saying words, you communicate heart to heart.
Citation needed.
I don’t think a citation is needed for this. This is just been my experience. When you’re with a group of people who are constantly in prayer, you can communicate without words. You can’t lie that’s the downside! Smile. Same is probably true for people who have been married a long time and for friends, who can finish each other sentences. A person and God can have that kind of relationship, and the person who asked for a citation may have that as well!
@@777overjoy777 Of course citation is needed. Personal experience alone is not a reliable source for truth. Why should I believe your experience? Jesus himself always pointed to the scriptures, rather than basing his claims on his divinity.
@@dartheli7400 the Ascent of Mount Carmel is filled with citations. Have at it. This woman has no clue of what she is talking about.
@@gregc7517 The Ascent of Mount Carmel is not authoritative nor is it the word of God. God gave us the model for prayer in his word and Jesus himself gave the template for prayer. That is sufficient. When man tries to usurp that, then it become a problem.
Spirit to spirit. You get to know what part of you is your spirit, and how it’s different from your emotions and psyche. Your spirit grows as the Holy Spirit enlightens. It takes a lot of time and it helps if you can do inner healing with it
Not taught in scripture
Contemplative prayer as described in this video is not true contemplative prayer but an attempt to trump it up.
The Contemplative Prayer movement discussed in this video is what is being taught today as discussed here and in part 1. That is what is at issue. If you are defining it differently, then that is something else but it is not what is being taught by the contemplative teachers today who are gaining ground in the church.
Dude says uh a lot and “right” a lot, both terms used over and over really makes it seem like he is just repeating what he has learned other than actually knowing for himself.
Are you in Toastmasters?
I can’t wait to critique your video