ASOIAF Theories: What Happened to Elissa Farman?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 січ 2019
- Elissa Farman was the elder sister of Androw Farman, who became the second husband of Rhaena Targaryen. Rhaena had never loved Androw, but she indeed loved his sister. For years they lived together on Dragonstone but Elissa longed for the sea. Elissa took on the alias, Alys Westhill. Whilst King Jaeherys and Rhaena Targaryen where busy searching for Aerea Targaryen and the Great beast Balerion the black dread, which she had taken, Braavosi shipwrights were just finishing there work on Elissa Farman’s new ship, The Sun Chaser.
Thanks for watching!
Please consider supporting this channel on Patreon: / ideasoficeandfire
Twitter: / ideasofice_fire
Like me on Facebook!: / ioiaf
Feel free to leave a comment like and subscribe!
Thanks For Watching! - Розваги
Androw was her 3rd husband:
1st: Prince Aegon Targaryen
2nd: King Maegor I Targaryen
3rd: Androw Farman
She's the Amelia Airheart of this world
Earhart, you mean. :)
wouldn't that be the targaryen princess that flew for years over sothoros?
She wasn't a Targaryen. She was a Valyrian noblewoman.
She was a Valyrian Dragonlord, and she returned from her three year journey across Sothoryos, so doesn't really work as a comparison to Earhart, but Elissa Farman does.
All I can say for sure is that she sailed far man.
Puns? Y u do dis?
Shame shame shame
@@princeprocrastinate6485 *rings the bell*
Lol
Do you think its possible the 3 dragon eggs Elissa had stolen petrified, only to eventually hatch into Danny's trio of dragons?
Don Alfonzoh I was thinking the same thing when I read that!
He already has a video to this, yes he believes it
That is what happened
Without a doubt
He literally said so in the video geez
Gods! Why do I never realize that the World of Ice and Fire is dark and full of terrors until I watch these videos?
Another possibility: When she found land on the far side of the Sunset Sea, and it turned out to be part of the known world already, she gave up and fell into despair. She never returned to Westeros or reported on her journey for fear of mockery, since all she discovered was a harder way to get to a destination already known.
I have a feeling when the Sunchaser passed through the Saffron Straits and reached Asshai that it was a ghost ship, wouldn't surprise me if the ship was the only thing to make it all the way through the voyage. I wouldn't rule out the chance that Sunchaser did find new lands before reaching far eastern Essos, but they were probably just islands of varying sizes. I think there are probably one or two other continents in that world but they're much further to the South.
I like this explanation. Intriguing.
IDK, I think she would have passed lands that are the equivalent of the Americas. If there is no New World, then where did the cranberries on Dragonstone float in from? The same place as the potatoes, and that one turkey Theon saw? Preposterous.🔴🥔🦃
There could be any number of theories for how Sun Chaser ended up in Asshai.
Theory 1: Farman failed to cross the Sunset Sea and was blown back to the Summer Isles or Sothryos, like Eustace Hightower was. Two things could have happened then: her ship could’ve been seized by pirates who sailed the ship east after killing her entire crew, or......
Theory 2: .....Failing in her mission and fearing arrest by the Targaryens, Farman could’ve sailed east herself and become a merchantman, forging a new identity for herself and her surviving crew.
Theory 3: Elissa or her ship did circumnavigate the globe, encountering only God knows what along the way, and ended up in Asshai, to an uncertain fate.
Theory 4: Corlys Velaryon was lying or embellishing his tale, something that sailors are wont to do.
@@garcalej I think theory 3 personally
@@garcalejtheory 3 most likely
You have been one of the best to cover Fire and Blood content on UA-cam. Keep up the good work bro.
You make a solid argument for Elissa to be Quaithe, I like the flow of that. Elissa's ship was quite unusual, I doubt he made an error in identifying it. I like your work, your thinking and your voice.
Man, the Braavosi are just the coolest! My biggest GOT wish is that we'll get to see Sothoryos and west off Westeros, even if it's just those three isles. Not really interested in the Zorses and Yi Ti, but man would I kill to see the former two. And yet, I know that I'd be disappointed with whatever they'd show, and it's the mystery that I love.
I love the connection of Elissa and Quaithe. I think you nailed it.
I actually feel really bad for Androw like the guy had absolutely nothing going for him.
These kind of journeys need a Sam Tarly in the crew
Maybe she did indeed discover new lands beyond Westeros. But was unsatisfied and so continued sailing east. She doesn’t sound like T he type of person who would ever stop on such an journey. Far too headstrong and adventurous. She probably sailed around those unknown continents and circumnavigated the world. This ultimately resulted in her arrival in Asshai through the saffron straits
I wish we will have a new map with the Islands Visenya, Aegon and Rhaenys - how far they are from Farwynd? Did the Reader ever come across these information? Did the Farwynd Lord ever attempted to find these islands?
Cogs/galleys/drummens traveled at an average of 4-5 knots while Viking long ships could travel between upwards of 14-18 knots but her ship was the knewest design specifically built for the open oceans,... So let's split the difference and say her ships we're averaging 8-10 knots, over a two week period, that equals a little more than 3800 miles. That's like New York to Paris. So not a trivial distance,... And remember she specifically was sailing in the opposite direction from known land masses.
She was in a storm though, which might have blown the ships a long way in either direction.
@@PastaPutin She was not They were, and then she found them again. The story though dubious as it is, is very clear on that and, at least, this part seems to be above the board. Additionally they all had clear skies and fair sailing for nearly two weeks out of Oldtown before any inclimate weather. They would have been making excellent time, Which btw for a 200 ft boat( only guessing this length because the ship has four masts) the theoretical hull speed(which is kind of a minimum maximum speed estimation for nautical design) during fair weather is around 18 knots.(square root of hull length at water line times 1.34) So no they traveled at least the distance I conservatively estimated if not further. Westhill certainly did because she traveled further then went back again to search for Hightower when he had got caught by the storm. But more to the point even if you cut my estimate in half they are still to far away from the Summer Isles for Hightower to have assumed that those Islands were closer than traveling straight back to Westeros.(They literally started their journey by traveling in a direction nearly opposite to the direction the Summer Isles are from Oldtown) That is just a factor of math not opinion and Course corrections due to weather do not account for thousands of miles. That is why you know that Hightower is lying about at least part if not the entire story after He and Westhill part ways in the Three Targaryen Islands . Either they had already made it around "the horn" so to speak, and Hightower spent his missing year and a half (His recorded account only takes into account a year and a half of his three years away from Oldtown) traveling around Sothoyros or Planetos is far far bigger than Earth is.
Christopher Mitchell
Didn't the video say they lacked wind for sailing?
@@wschippr1 Then they wouldnt have had gone very far to begin with,...and the story makes less sense. No Fire and Blood is clear they had two weeks of fair winds and calm skies and then the troubles started. Once they find the Targeryen namesake Islands and part ways; Eustice uses the distance between those Islands and Westeros as an excuse for why he ended up so far off course when "returning" home as to end up in Sothoryos. Further more when one adds up the mentioned time frames in Fire and Blood that Eustice states as the duration of his and his crew's lay overs/ transit times there is a year and a half of missing time.,...All this (if we except his lie as fact) within a sea that we know is navigable by his own testimony. Quote an "Ibbenese Whaler" being seen on their voyage out of Westeros and not long before the first storm hits. I wrote up my thoughts months ago on the amino linked below.
aminoapps.com/c/gotamino18/page/blog/where-did-he-go-george-where-did-he-go/KzoE_KxIMuRkamVVdEJdkVG62lVk5LdWx6
I've always thought that there could be descendants of Brandon the Shipwright on eastern Essos. Quaithe herself could even be a Stark descendant.
Awesome video. Love your stuff , man :)
Love your videos!
While the speculation about quathe is cool, that would be assuming that corlys actually saw the sun chaser and was not mistaken.
I need to go to sleep early but hey? New vid, I’m watchin!
I think she's the Quaithe and definitely found something there.
totally agree
Probably thats why she says her "to travel west you must go east..." since she already have done that and knows that world is round and its also literal
Dan the Man nah she Melisandre
Kacpa2 Melisandre
So she hit Ulthos?
Great stuff 👍 keep it up
Rhaena and Elissa's relationship was doomed to fail the moment Rhaena insisted on having Dragonstone - she should have realised that a woman like Elissa was not the type to settle down on a quiet island, but no she was too consumed by having what she saw as hers by right.
She didn't have many options, though. Dragonstone was a mistake but only restrospectively. Where else could they live? It's said there were rumours about Rhaena long before that and someone would eventually ruin it anyway. Even Lannisters were asking if her marriage with Androw was consumated - they smelled an opportunity. At least this gave them some chance.
@@vojtechjehlicka7000 Rhaena could have gone across the sea towards Essos - certainly Elissa would have loved to sail across the narrow sea and see the Free Cities.
It's the problem of deep relationship you make in your teen-young adulthood. It's based on dreams about the future. If one have given up on those dreams and one haven't...
@@TheFiresloth Exactly - Rhaena wanted to settle down to a quiet existence on 'her' Dragonstone while Elissa wanted to fulfill her childhood dream of sailing beyond the horizon. She just wasn't prepared to give that up.
very true I think that Rhaena should go with her and her daughter too.
Slight Correction:
Elissa sold the Eggs to the Sealord of Braavos itself where her ship was built, not in Pentos.
This is the route she took:
Dragonstone -> Driftmark -> Pentos -> Braavos: Sold Eggs to the Braavosi Sealord; used Gold to built her ship, the *Sunchaser*
From Braavos then to Pentos -> Tyrosh -> Oldtown
From there she sailed west of Westeros, discovered the 3 Islands and vanished afterwards.
If she found a "New World" between the Sunrise Sea east of Essos and Sunset Sea west of Westeros she might have sailed around it too.
It's unknown what happened to her, basically when Corlys Velaryon discovered the wreck of the *Sunchaser* in the Saffron Straits or Asshai he found a ghost ship without a trace of what happened....
Another great video
Between you, SmokeScreen and In Deep Geek... I’m am in GoT heaven. One of the seven of them, I guess. Lol
6:46 These "giant grey lizards" kinda look like Komodo dragons
Is it possible that she somehow reached Indonesia? 😂
8:18 And that's how Alice/Elissa discovered that the Earth is round
This has been my burning question since Fire and Blood too. I can't even.
You have touched on some unique points.Quaithe being Elissa is not that far fetched.She may even be a descendant of Elissa who could have been conceived during the fortnight stay on the lost islands.Thanks for the video.
I was thinking of Magellan for some reason when I read Elissa Farman's story. Might be that she may have died on the new continent in the hands of the natives and that her crew were the one who reached Asshai, only for them to succumb to disease the same way Corlys Velaryon's crews suffered.
If there is one thing that Elissa's discovery will affect the plot, it would probably be in the knowledge that due west of Westeros is another land that they can flee to if ever the army of the White Walkers overrun the Seven Kingdoms.
If Westeros and Essos are in fact connected through a land bridge to the north and therefore one continent, this would fall through.
Grrm said they are NOT connected through a Land Bridge
🇵🇭
@@Rickuo The Arm of Dorne (which was the land bridge you refer to and is in the South) was destroyed by the Children of the
Forest.
@@Dornan77802 I wasn't speaking of the Arm of Dorne. I was speaking of a possible connection between the north of Westeros and the far east of Essos beyond the Five Fortresses.
I wonder if Arya will be successful in traveling the Sunset Sea and maybe find land.
Please don't mention the last season
@@shitdegekk what last season?
I didn't really care about this particular video but I just like listening to you narrate.
What about the lands south? it would be easy to sail along the coast and have the lands charted that are cut off by the map.
I love this theory so much!
I think the major characters of F&B have to be giving us clues about characters in the main series, especially the mysterious ones like Quaithe
In the CK2 mod of A Song of Ice and Fire, Brandon Stark's descendants invades Westeros from the Sunset Sea with the help of the Aztecs.
What is the CK2 mod?
@@guilhermesantos8728 A game of thrones
I really love your videos.
I have asked before... The music... what is it? Is it possible to find it out there?
Elissa turned to be Melisandre, when she returned after she ran of Westeros, she came up with the Melisandre that his the combination of her name, Andrew and Rhaena. Then she learned the dark magic of shadows in Ashai (Corlys said that the boat of Elissa was seen going to Ashai) that's why Melisandre can give birth to shadows.
Another one well done. 🙌🏽
stannis book to show comparison WHEN.
stannermen will blow up your channel by a hundredfold
I want to know what tried to take on the black dread.
Another dragon and the king's brother.
I'm thinking a giant fire wyrm. It grievously wounded Balerion and ended up being the death of Aerea, laying eggs inside her which led to the horror that Septon Barth later described.
I'm quite sure she smiled to Bravos, not Pentos... Guessing just an honest mistake. Absolutely amazing video, just like the rest 😁
The biggest question for me is what happened to her in the end...? I know we will never get the answer, like many other ASOIAF myths... But I want it 😂
Stealing dragon eggs was a really dumb idea. Its like if someone stole a nuke before fleeing the United States, they would instantly become one of the most wanted people in the world. Couldn't Elissa have taken some less important treasures to pawn off for a ship rather than potential WMDs? And she's an idiot if she thought the Targaryens would react by putting a huge bounty on her head and making it near impossible for her to return to Westeros without facing their wrath.
Where do you get that she didn't expect their reaction? She flew to Braavos where she knew they wouldn't turn her to valyrians and where the bravoosi could counter Jaeherys' threats with 'certain guild that is good at their job'. Ships are expensive - good ships even more so, supplies are expensive, crew is really expensive because she had to hire adventurers, not just common hands that would mutiny after one week. She concealed her identity and she sailed to Oldtown, the center of knowledge where she could expect sympathetoc minds. All her gambles proved to be correct. She knew exactly what she was doing.
@@vojtechjehlicka7000 Elissa was lucky, not correct. She managed to trick many people, the only ones who actually liked her where the bravosi, the stole and lied to all the rest.
What's the name of the background music in the very beginning o the video? Thanks in advance
Could those 3 dragon eggs that Elissa stole the same eggs that where given to Daenerys on her wedding to Drogo?
You're not wrong.
May I ask where most of the info in this video is from? I only read the main series but would love to dig deeper :)
This is from the new book that GRRM just released in November or December called Fire and Blood Part One. So very new stuff for us to digest. Another book that would interest you is A World of Ice and Fire, however that book makes no mention of Elissa Farman.
1:01 - Elissa sold the eggs to the Sealord of Braavos
When you talked about the kraken reaching out with "arms" before in another vid I think you were mistaken. Yeah those are the words in the book but the limbs of an octopus and squid are actually arms and are often mistakenly labeled as tentacles so the arms reaching out the ocean, I don't think are referring to humanoid arms like those of cthullu which some people are thinking.
I really don't believe this to be true and it's pretty far fetched,
but what if Elissa Farman after she had her adventures and got to Asshai'i, she learned magic and shadow binding and eventually how to extend her lifespan (like Mellisandre) and became Quaithe?
I mean it would explain her interest in Daenerys as an Targaryen,
and if Dany's Eggs are really the ones stolen from Elissa, it would explain why she Quaithe cares about Danys Dragons.
And it would tie in to Quaithe's knowledge about the world being round and telling Dany to go east to go west.
I think this would work although Elissa is said to have blue eyes and I don't remember Quaithes being blue, if they were it would be certainly said so on the pages.
the videos theory is too far fetched but this isnt!?
I think Elissa actually became to be Melisandre, if you take attention, Melisandre name is a mixture of Elissa, Andrew and Rhaena
@@Cromenockle No,Not at all.
@@Complexcore-lz8de you can't say that for sure, and yes I know Melisandre recalls her childhood, but that could be just a lie so that no one finds out who she was.
Quaithe is Elissa Farman/Alys Westhill? Very interesting, and this has given me a couple of notions.
I have a far more interesting theory: Elissa Farman is actually Melisandre of Asshai. First, Elissa's name is enclosed in Melissandre.
Second, there is a very strong hint from Fire and Blood that Corlys Velaryon spotted the Sun Chaser in Asshai.
Third, we know that Melissandre is very old and has been kept alive through her worship of the Lord of Light.
Lastly, Melisandre shows an unusual knowledge of Westeros, including it's language and political structure. She could have come by this knowledge in any number of ways but perhaps it's because she is from Westeros.
It's crazy to think how a human could create such a fascinating world almost like he is from that world.
I would love to be from house Westhill such a bad ass surname
its a good surname tbh
Fire and Blood is so good
Androw was actually the third husband of Rhaena
Gotta say Androw got done dirty
1:55 this is not Brandon the Shipwright (his face is lost in history) this is Brandon Stark aka the Night's King (the one who had 👀 with a whitewalker woman.)
What is that amazing piece of music in this video???
Check the end of the video for all music credits.
Hmm your theory makes sense. Everyone is talking about Elissa but no one is talking about Rhaena T__T
And what happened to Rhaena's daughter's?
@@Rickuo : Infected by Valyrian fire wyrms. Bad way to go.
I think she drink water with worms but I am not sure who scar the Blediron the Black Dread.
I want to say that Elissa = Melisandre
There could be any number of theories for how Sun Chaser ended up in Asshai.
Theory 1: Farman failed to cross the Sunset Sea and was blown back to the Summer Isles or Sothryos, like Eustace Hightower was. Two things could have happened then: her ship could’ve been seized by pirates who sailed the ship east after killing her entire crew, or......
Theory 2: .....Failing in her mission and fearing arrest by the Targaryens, Farman could’ve sailed east herself and become a merchantman, forging a new identity for herself and her surviving crew.
Theory 3: Elissa or her ship did circumnavigate the globe, encountering only God knows what along the way, and ended up in Asshai, to an uncertain fate.
Theory 4: Corlys Velaryon was lying or embellishing his tale, something that sailors are wont to do.
first like first view love your channel
LmL's New Years stream brought me here. My hot take: that's a bad hat, Quinn/LmL. The symbolism isn't explored here(no knock on you, Q) but as theories go, it sure is shiny. The question I must ask is the sighting of the Sun Dancer in Asshai a gun, a tidy bow, or a glammer?
The Europeans believed nothing was out there until the New World was discovered. Perhaps there’s a New World in Planetos.
Yeah that's bullshit. Irish Monk made it out in the 6th century, Vikings made it out in 11th century. Most believed there was nothing but we had gone out there already.
Do you have evidence to support that statement? I'm pretty sure europeans didn't believed there was nothing out there, being the biggest explorers of all time. :)
The sunset is the true domain of the storm god that no one can wish to conquer
Didn’t Alt shift x just make a video about Elissa?
So did others. The character is incredibly interesting.
He did but it's nice to get someone else's view on the matter.
i find her beautiful idk why
i hope they include her in a future spinoff
Eyoel Girma I think she Melisandre
Elissa is Melissandra?
M - Elissa - ndre
Well...
boom31jb maybe in the books don’t see any significance she might have in the show
amal zuhair she in the new show
the music sounds familiar.. title?
@2:30 GRRM’s subtle double meaning?
Well, we have the Five Forts in Yi Ti allegedly protecting the empire from the “demons” of The Lion of Night. So maybe you’re right to speculate that that was indeed a play on words.
No, it literally means that she went West further South than everyone else who tried.
I really like this one. Halfway thru I was already wondering "could she be Quaithe? Melisandre?" Didn't GRRM say once that Melisandre was the most misunderstood character in the series?
As you say we can't know for sure, and may never know. But it is so much fun to speculate.
She sold the eggs to the Sealord of Braavos..
AltShiftX believes that those eggs she sold ended up being the eggs Ilyrio gave Daenerys on her wedding day to Khal Drogo
Oh my bad, just realized you were correcting him for saying Pentos instead
@@Aytierrez Illyrio could have just gotten them from Braavos since he does do business all around the world.
I got it. And he’s prob right. But that’s not who they were initially sold to by Elissa.
Dude this my name and I’m gay- lmaooooo
Poor Rhaena, she has lost so much
i swear theres this video or something where grrm said there was an america and australia but he wasnt ever going to show it
good stuff as always...wait you're black?! lol i seriously love your channel. thank you
The Music is from Zelda?!
Did she met Rhaena Targaryan in Harrenhal?
What book is her story in?
Maybe she never reached Asshai at all and it wasn’t her ship.
Or maybe the ship was passed on from captain to captain and just happened to be there when that one dude got there. Or maybe it was an illusion. Or maybe someone created a similar model.
This is why I love ASOIAF so much. The possibilities are endless.
Planetos is round.
She needs to go to dragonstone to complete her trip
She probably reached the Valinor)
Wasn't there a Targaryen who tried to fly West to reach the east on a dragon and even they failed miserably? Elissa would have to be someone like patches to make the journey, someone in relation to the gods.
she was a dragon lord from a different house. before the doom
@@sophiawilson8696 she also flew south to try and go north, not the west to east (but if its like our world that should only make a slight difference)
6:44 Soooo Komodo Dragons?
So, those tree eggs are the ones Dænerys have.
She sailed west... found Asshai by the shadow... and there she was sold into slavery by her angry and mutinous crew... and became Mellisandre
Emelia Earhart. I am pretty sure she died on the voyage and her ship reached Essos empty and dead.
Maybe she was part of the church before she even taken the trip.
I always wonder if the Daenerys 3 Dragon eggs are the same ones that Elissa stole from Rhaena!
The Sun is a Star.
I think that Melisandre is Rhaenys Thargarian
Interesting theory
How come no one ever took a dragon to see if their were new lands?
Some Dragonriders did try but as Alysanne Targaryen mentioned even dragons get tired and need somewhere to rest - a bit of a problem if you have no idea where the nearest solid land is
The first female Globe trotter!
She clearly found Tamerial lol 😂
Elissa was awesome. She stole the 3 eggs that eventually would’ve ended up with Daenerys.
Why would the Targaryns give a princess to such a small house?
Rhaena wasn't 'given' to House Farman - she married Androw of her own free will, saying 'he was kind to me'.
She married Androw Farman without king's approval so she could be with Elisa.
Spoiler alert those who did watched the finale of GOT. Arya Stark just became a new Eliss Farman
9:04 You are trying to answer what happened to her? The answer is staring you right in the face mate, she is 8:24
She's Melisandre.