The way Blizzard retconned the hell out of the Scarlet Crusade was always so annoying to me. Originally Scarlet Crusade was founded by several members like Alexandros Mograine, Saidan Dathrohan (the real one), Taelan Fordring, General Abbendis, etc. And they were initially a pretty heroic faction albeit a bit overzealous (which was understandable considering what they went through and their circumstances). They became the main bastion of the Lordearon's resistance after the fall of Garithoses faction, the "New Alliance" in FT. And the Scalet Crusade was doing pretty good initially despite their over zealotry around the vanilla WoW timeline. They were allied with the Stormwind-led Alliance and were almost on the verge of retaking Lordaeron from the forsaken (Alexandros with Ashbringer was a great force multiplier). And it was at this point that Saidan got killed and replaced by Balnazzar thus eventually leading Balnazzar in the guise of Saidan to manipulate Renault Mograine into assassinating his own father. It is at this point the reshuffling of the Scarlet Crusade leadership at the tail end of the Vanilla WoW period is where things start to go bad for the Scarlet Crusade. When they became the crazy radical extremists. And it was a great tragedy what became of them despite their noble origins. However, Blizzard later changed the timeline and story/lore for the Scarlet Crusade by making it so that Scarlet Crusade was only ever formed after the death/murder of Alexandros by Saidan (Balnazzar). Essentially erasing their noble origins/history and making it so that they were a bunch of radical xenophobic nutjobs from the very beginning. They essentially erased all the nuance from an interesting and well-developed grey faction. And made the Scarlet Crusade just another doomsday cult in a world utterly full of them. Scarlet Crusade had such great potential for an interesting morally grey story but Blizzard utterly wasted them.
I think most people who played WC3 empathized with the Scarlet Crusade, and really would come to the conclusion that their paranoia was completely justified; you know since a cult of death infiltrated their kingdom and brought ruin to it. In a lot of ways they were an embodiment of Arthas' will back in Stratholme: That what they were doing was a necessary evil. If the lore had went down a different path I imagine we could hear stories of how the former members of the Silver Hand lamented that they did not listen to Arthas at the time, perhaps even resenting Uther's choice to abandon the prince; and that the loss of Lorderon and their prince was ultimately their fault. As such, their resolve is tempered by how deep their failure ran; that it took so much from them all. Mercy killing each other would make all the more sense to the Scarlet Crusade, especially since they got to see what being turned into undead did to Arthas: Turned into a weapon against your own people.
Modern-era Blizzard's utter contempt for worldbuilding outside of "X is 100% good, Y is 100% bad" is beyond sad. Absolute superhero capeshit levels of writing.
@@epiccthulu I don't think YOU understand worldbuilding. Storytelling is a major contributor to worldbuilding. Having story aspects that extend beyond the immediate "frame" of action, past and present, to create a world where the action actually influences the landscape. The "World" of Shadowlands was an adhoc, tacked-together, poorly concealed retcon. An attempt to fix 15 years of contradictions and sloppy, under-the-rug writing.
@@epiccthulu It does count as word building, it's just incredibly shallow with little to no relevance to anything that comes before it, as made incredibly evident by the fact that they have to explain every single facet of the world like it was brand new (it all was) and pretend like it was "planned" for years. The concept of death, undeath and the afterlife has played a huge part in Warcraft's lore from the beginning, and many characters have been resurrected, yet none of them have ever referenced the Shadowlands prior to the xpac release? Compare that to old-world concepts, like the Emerald Dream. Compare the world to that of Northrend, which felt familiar and lived-in, having been referenced endlessly both on-screen and off-screen in the content before WOTLK was released.
@@epiccthulu Vanilla Gnomer and The Deadmines impacted and shaped the World of Warcraft universe more than anything in Shadowlands did/will moving forwards.
I love hearing Mcconnel defend his paladin. The best video was when he had a whole paladin "help group" and they all hopped in one at a time. Love you guys
I as a Blood Knight listenning to this argument between those two ... dude .. what a tragedy. What is better ... Silverhand or Warriors ... well non. Blood Knights forever dude! Do you think aliance paladins are cool? Think again! Do you think we have to believe in holy and be righteous to wield holy magic? Do you think we have to beg the light for it's blessings? NO and NO AGAIN! We take what we want. We use what we want. WE ARE THE BLOOD KNIGHTS!
The Scarlet Crusade was one of my favorite factions in WoW back in the day - I even collected all the Scarlet Crusade items cause I thought it was such a cool outfit. God, this makes me wanna log onto WoW again.
one of the biggest missed opportunities was making a Scarlet Crusade expansion instead of cataclysm, we could have returned from northrend to see that the Scarlet Crusade is asserting it's dominance and they could have tied that in to the light.
@@nolabets3130 That would have been absolutely incredible. Especially since in WotLK I was running through Scarlet Monastary over and over for wool cloth to sell, so I was deep into it already.
@@UltimateGamerCC See i love that so much, imagine you have them mount their attack aided by the light in some crazy deal they made with the Naaru and this is how you also bring Yrel back into the story, the Allied race questline for the Mag'har Orcs is still one of my favourite moments in all of wow ever.
Incorrect, Alexandros only has melee attacks and the event effect ability that all the scene npcs have. You are thinking of the warden commander who not only looks different (and has Asmon hairline), but is part of the thrall plot, not ashbringer one.
Huge elephant in the room is Asmon has provided endless opportunities for McConnell to build his platform and get rich from it, but alas the legendary paladin known as Mccool only streams when rent is due.
27:20 I believe for the member of the scarlet crusade, since many of them were former veterans of the second war, a war which they fought together with dwarves and high elves against the orcs, it definetly makes perfect sense for them to having member or being friends with high elves and dwarves, and not having any predjudice against those races. Scarlet crusaders hate orcs, trolls, and whatever brutal war-oriented race that is part of the horde, because in the past said races invaded and ravaged their home. And they hate the undead and the scourge, cause their home was destroyed and stolen by these. The Hall of Champions featuring members of other races like an high elf mage, and high elf ranger, and a dwarf paladin, is not a plothole. If anything, it's the hate that the scarlet crusade is supposed to harbors towards any race outside of human (or even for any living thing outside of the members of the crusade) that is heavily exagerated and unjustified to a point of bad writing.
okay some of the dk starter quests sucked (yes specifically the one where you have to autoattack people), but I take massive offense to saying the starting zone sucked, it was an amazing and epic experience
Almost every quest employed some sort of cool tech new to the expansion. It was the first time we've seen phasing utilized to such an extent as to actually see the impact we had on the zone as we go along. Every quest rewarded talents or a piece of awesome looking armor, there was even a quest to go out and steal a horse before corrupting it and making it your mount. The DK starter experience was amazing and this guy is just wrong imo
Yeah especially since the quest with the auto attack was meant to bring the expertise with one handed swords up to snuff, before they completely discarded it with cata... There was an idea behind it.
I heard you can pay for a hair line but it involves having your ass hair just above your forehead, i instantly regretted not washing my ass for the past 32 yrs
I got so frustrated that I literaly went to my bookshelf, pulled out Ashbringer comix and scrolled through it as if my life was at stake. You can't imagine how happy I was when I actually found it. So yeah. He was paladin and not just warior with light infused weapon.
I think there's a very good chance that they'll bring back the Scarlet Crusade, in some capacity, when the "Light is bad and evil and stuff" expansion comes out. With the way Yrel has been acting up on Draenor, that expac is definitely incoming, potentially after Dragonflight, and it seems like a very obvious candidate for an force of evil and uses the light. Also, it should be fairly easy to do canonically, as the Crusade *would* have seemed to be wiped out on *Azeroth*, while in reality having moved their remaining forces to Draenor to assist Yrel in her crusade.
@@flavor2984 Just some genocide, ethnic cleansing, that sorta thing. Check out Bellular's video(s) on it, he covers it really well! Or play through the starting experience for Mag'har orc for some of the first-hand experience.
Didn't Mograine actively participate in the process of turning the Shadow Orb thing into what they forged the Ash finger from? Directly using the light to do so?
McConnell is incorrect, it isn't usually Warriors that graduate into Paladins it's Priests. Canonical lore for Paladins: Priests figured out how to wear plate while fighting the Scourge. Anduin: Human Priest who became a Paladin. Lady Liadrin: Blood Elf Priest who became a Paladin. Yrel: Draenei Priest who became a Paladin. Delas Moonfang: Night Elf Priest who became a Paladin. Now some Paladins were Warriors first like Alexandros Morgraine and Aponi Whitemane, but most Paladins of note were former Priests.
I think that's where the different specializations come into play, with the priests that become paladins being Holy, and the warriors either Protection or Retribution.
To be Fair, Tirion Fordring saved the blackrock orc Eitrigg, as an honorbound favor when Eitrigg saved him first. That's how he actually got excommunicated in the first place. They fought at first but after the tower collapsed, Eitrigg felt that leaving him to suffocate under the rubble would simply leave a bad taste in his mouth, being an extremely oldschool noble savage archetype. So he pulled him out. Once Tirion came to and understood what the old Orc had done, he instantly felt he was indebted to him. Once Eitrigg got captured by the other humans and was about to be executed at Stratholme, Thrall, his warriors and Tirion swooped in and saved him, for which he got excommunicated from the Paladin order and was stripped of his Light. Eitrigg proclaimed Tirion as his brother by honor. The two have been friends until Tirion died. And since, Eitrigg has always been diplomatic when it comes to the Alliance and especially humans, seeing that they can be just as honorable as any Orc. It's no grand story of glorious combat, but it's a pretty wholesome tale of an Orc ( a BLACKROCK Orc at that) and a Human finding true bromance in a time where the two races were at each other's throats, right after Orgrim's Horde was shattered. And as a Horde, honor is above all else, and Tirion will always be among the most awesome humans in Warcraft lore. EDIT - 23:10 Actually, the Forsaken are literally the same citizens of Lordaeron. So, in all fairness, it's THEIR city, but Sylvanas should've been booted out way earlier I agree.
I legit appreciate that Asmon actually watches the ads for the videos he reacts to, and doesn't just skip them like most other content creators do. Like he said once, "If I'm gonna steal their content, the least I can do is watch the bit that paid for it."
Alexandros Mograine is absolutely a paladin, there is a point where someone was talking about him and said he could reduce undead to ash without drawing his sword, and that people mistakenly started calling the weapon Ashbringer when the real Ashbringer as the man himself.
to be fair to tirion krosus didn't actually kill him he just incapacitated him. He was then tortured for however long it took us to get to him in lore and passed away after giving the ashbringer away
Also he quite literally tried to solo a Legion raid boss in Wrath gear. Some of those bosses still can't be easily soloed in Shadowlands gear. Good on him for lasting as long as he did.
But Mograine has used holy power, if I recall that right. Back in "Escape from Durnholde", there is a small event of creation of the crystal into "light" version. As for Tier 3 armour. Well, it supposed to be the DKs' armour.
Okay so here is how I rationalize the first paladin thing. I think it makes sense that the earliest paladin(s) could had been a warrior, because it had been so early that there were no paladin practices set in stone yet, they just wanted to smite undead and protect the people. so the "paladin" would had just continued with what they already knew. why use time to learn something new when you already kick ass. I dont base this on any facts or research, just trying to rationalize the scenario.
There's one little thing that he forgot to talk about. In the burning crusade, there is reference to them cleansing the dark crystal in the town of Southshore in the dungeon "Escape from Durnholde keep." There you can also find the children version of scarlet crusade bosses playing out their iconic boss fights. Like little Devault acting as Sally's bodyguard and when he falls she acts to resurrect him as her champion.
Asmon and McConnell arguing whether Alexander Mograine was a Warrior or Paladin and which was a better class *Death Knights over in the corner munching Popcorn*
@@zoeith6 that's about as far from what Death Knights actually are as it possibly gets. Death Knights are former heroes, of any class, that fell in battle and were strong enough for the Lich King to personally recognize their usefulness and resurrect them in his image. Those he doesn't just become another faceless zombie in his horde of undead. Death Knights can be best described as the Lich King's personal shock troops. Their unholy powers being a mirror of the being who gave them a second life.
@@KaleidosXXI No, I'm not forgetting that. Everyone knows Arthas was a paly. He's quite literally one of, if not the, most popular characters in the entire franchise let alone WoW itself. Arthas forging them in his corrupted image does not make them "failed paladins" like the other guy claimed. The proper term would be "anti-paladin". To fail at something you have to attempt it, and they're not trying to be Paladins. Their whole point is being the polar opposite.
@@chamathnadeeshan4008 He doesnt contribute to the forging at all, its Tirion, back then Priest Fairbanks and Inquisitor Isillien that cast spells. Alexandros is even the only member there that doesnt have mana.
If you do the cavern of time dungeon where you see the creation of the Ashbringer. You see Mograine cast light magic towards the gem. I understand we never saw him use actual light in fight but he's a Paladin. He was the best fighter tho wich explain why he was more of a warrior than a paladin.
The scarlet bosses as children are also there and if you follow them as they are running around town, they'll pretend play out the iconic boss battles. Like devault "falling" in battle and Sally "resurrecting" her champion
i mean, in the lore, the first paladins are the best warriors of the alliance getting a much needed upgrade to help even the odds vs the Horde... so he kinda has a point :p. incidentally thats why Alexandros is wearing Dreadnaught. he's the best warrior, that was what qualified him to apply to become a paladin in wc2 xD
@@Aetherian1 it's mostly the other way around, but your point has a lot of truth in it. after saving Northshire, the most elite warriors of the alliance (Tyralion, Dathrohan, Fordring and Gavinrad) were offered to be trained in the way of the light by Archbishop Alonsus faol. Though they were joined with his own apprentice - Uther, who became the fifth founding member, and whom they taught the ways of the warrior. so while on principle it comes from wanting to empower the warriors who saved the day and allow them to not just protect but heal the innocents. in reality it's a symbiotic relationship between warriors and priests teaching each other.
@@Aetherian1 Correct, I read recently the first warcraft books and it is indeed Priest being trained as Warriors. Also Calde, you are wrong on a few names. Turalyon was a priest apprentice back then in the first war.
@9:32 I think he forgot about the TBC dungeon Hillsbrad foothills because if you go to the inn it has him in there I'm assuming using judgement but with the casting of smite to the very object that made the ash bringer
The Argent Dawn should have taken "Fenris Isle" keep for a decent foothold and base of operations. Definitely would hvae been better than just the church being out in the open.
Mcconnell can only scream fight me! because he's playing a class who's modus operandi consists of healing themselves until they finally wear down their opponents patience and they let them win.
31:43 - we where just in Scarlet Monastery and now in Wrath of The Lich King for some reason. After Monastery we should be doing Hearthglean, then Strathemholm.
when you go to Old Hillsbrad, and view when they cleanse whatever material Ashbringer was forged from, Mograine himself doesn't help cleanse it, he's the only one out of those surrounding him that doesn't put any of The Light into the weapon.
Mograine was a paladin for sure. The only reason he wore T3 armor in vanilla was because it was the gear of choice to look like a Death Knight. You can still see it in retail's Naxxramas with the death knight mobs.
One of the best villains that you can get players invested in are ones they understand, but don't agree with. Blizzard balanced them out fairly well in vanilla, and then, like everything else Activision Blizzard does, they fucked it up.
That "yes" at the Keeps ad just kills my soul. At some point you just have to accept fate my guy. Ether a product like that will help you and work or you accept it and maybe just shave it off.
Alexandros Mograine was one of the several people who used holy magic to change the crystal in the Ashbringer from shadow to holy, him casting a holy spell. He was in the warrior tier because they didn't have death knight tier back then and it was just the armor they had him wearing when he was one of the Four Horsemen. I'm pretty sure Asmongold was just trying to make a joke but since it wasn't even remotely funny I am clarifying just to make sure.
Incorrect, Mograine never cast any holy magic in either form (game or comic). He doesnt even have a mana bar in game during the event in caverns of time.
If Asmon watched his own videos or had the memory he claims to have, he know that in TBC clasic when they watched the Ashbringer, he was a paladin and used holy magic.
The reason why Alexandros is wearing the tier 3 warrior set is because after he was killed he was raised as a death knight in naxxramas and the devs needed the closest thing to "I'm a dead, vengeful spirit" when Alex executed Renault. The devs back then were teasing wotlk, also becoming a DK is the end fate of any warrior or paladin of any worth, and that's why DK's are better than either.
The Scarlet Brotherhood was a direct rip, name and everything, from Greyhawk, one of the two original D&D settings. It even had a 1e AD&D sourcebook all about it.
I fucking LOVE that whenever "Paladin" is mentioned Mccool has to chime in. I wish i had a friend play wow or ffxiv with me for15 years plus like Asmon and Mccool.
if a paladin is an updated warrior, doesn't that mean people that use them need that extra help. So why would it take more skill to use a stronger version of a character? Is having better options more difficult because you can't figure out what to do and when? Or do I have to play WOW to understand?
I guess the Scarlett Crusade could return if we get a Light expansion in which Yrel invades Azeroth with a army of light an allies with the scarlet crusade. But who knows.
When they made Ashbringer they all who became a high rank of the first paladins even Alexander Mograin was cleansing the artifact crystal and Alexander was one of them actually throwing holy light on this dark crystal to cleanse it. There you have it. He is a Paladin
On Paladins taking L's. I don't think Lady Liadrin has every taken a big loss, they were able to drive the Death Knights out of the Paladin order hall back in Legion
Here's an interesting question: how come the Ashbringer didn't turn Alexandros into ash when Renault used it to stab his own father, like it should have? Also, Duke Lionheart died to Tyrande Whisperwind, and Sir Henery Lionshield was never used on the same level.
I think it was Lothar who was also a part of the knights of the silverhand. In WC1 orcs and humans, lothar was just a knight. Did not have the paladin spell. He was a fucking tank of a unit compared to the other paladin hero units
Remember when dungeons and raids were all part of this world that felt alive? Different factions all wanting their own things. It made the game feel like a world with nuance and depth. Now it’s just playable story cinematics on the “it’s a small world” style ride.
Tbh, the crusaders running deeper and deeper into scourge territory blowing themselfs, and everyone else with the staff, is something a guild in game would surely do if they had the chance, just for lulz, to see how far they would be able to go.
As I recall... There's a Scarlet Crusade loyalist that's joined the Dark Moon Fair. You can buy a Scarlet Crusade cosmetic set from him, to fund the rebuilding of the Scarlet Crusade. He's over by the stables/petting zoo.
I love how Mcconnel just detected paladin smeаring and came in..."fight me" :D
most insecure class in the game - barnybee
LOL
@@DanielRodriguez-vf2sk it's so true lol
Couldn't watch the vid from that point. He's so obnoxious and annoying...
Like a true paladin! But I figure that's why they die in lore all the time...
The way Blizzard retconned the hell out of the Scarlet Crusade was always so annoying to me. Originally Scarlet Crusade was founded by several members like Alexandros Mograine, Saidan Dathrohan (the real one), Taelan Fordring, General Abbendis, etc. And they were initially a pretty heroic faction albeit a bit overzealous (which was understandable considering what they went through and their circumstances).
They became the main bastion of the Lordearon's resistance after the fall of Garithoses faction, the "New Alliance" in FT. And the Scalet Crusade was doing pretty good initially despite their over zealotry around the vanilla WoW timeline. They were allied with the Stormwind-led Alliance and were almost on the verge of retaking Lordaeron from the forsaken (Alexandros with Ashbringer was a great force multiplier).
And it was at this point that Saidan got killed and replaced by Balnazzar thus eventually leading Balnazzar in the guise of Saidan to manipulate Renault Mograine into assassinating his own father. It is at this point the reshuffling of the Scarlet Crusade leadership at the tail end of the Vanilla WoW period is where things start to go bad for the Scarlet Crusade. When they became the crazy radical extremists. And it was a great tragedy what became of them despite their noble origins.
However, Blizzard later changed the timeline and story/lore for the Scarlet Crusade by making it so that Scarlet Crusade was only ever formed after the death/murder of Alexandros by Saidan (Balnazzar). Essentially erasing their noble origins/history and making it so that they were a bunch of radical xenophobic nutjobs from the very beginning. They essentially erased all the nuance from an interesting and well-developed grey faction. And made the Scarlet Crusade just another doomsday cult in a world utterly full of them.
Scarlet Crusade had such great potential for an interesting morally grey story but Blizzard utterly wasted them.
I think most people who played WC3 empathized with the Scarlet Crusade, and really would come to the conclusion that their paranoia was completely justified; you know since a cult of death infiltrated their kingdom and brought ruin to it. In a lot of ways they were an embodiment of Arthas' will back in Stratholme: That what they were doing was a necessary evil. If the lore had went down a different path I imagine we could hear stories of how the former members of the Silver Hand lamented that they did not listen to Arthas at the time, perhaps even resenting Uther's choice to abandon the prince; and that the loss of Lorderon and their prince was ultimately their fault. As such, their resolve is tempered by how deep their failure ran; that it took so much from them all. Mercy killing each other would make all the more sense to the Scarlet Crusade, especially since they got to see what being turned into undead did to Arthas: Turned into a weapon against your own people.
Modern-era Blizzard's utter contempt for worldbuilding outside of "X is 100% good, Y is 100% bad" is beyond sad. Absolute superhero capeshit levels of writing.
@@epiccthulu
I don't think YOU understand worldbuilding.
Storytelling is a major contributor to worldbuilding. Having story aspects that extend beyond the immediate "frame" of action, past and present, to create a world where the action actually influences the landscape.
The "World" of Shadowlands was an adhoc, tacked-together, poorly concealed retcon. An attempt to fix 15 years of contradictions and sloppy, under-the-rug writing.
@@epiccthulu It does count as word building, it's just incredibly shallow with little to no relevance to anything that comes before it, as made incredibly evident by the fact that they have to explain every single facet of the world like it was brand new (it all was) and pretend like it was "planned" for years.
The concept of death, undeath and the afterlife has played a huge part in Warcraft's lore from the beginning, and many characters have been resurrected, yet none of them have ever referenced the Shadowlands prior to the xpac release? Compare that to old-world concepts, like the Emerald Dream.
Compare the world to that of Northrend, which felt familiar and lived-in, having been referenced endlessly both on-screen and off-screen in the content before WOTLK was released.
@@epiccthulu Vanilla Gnomer and The Deadmines impacted and shaped the World of Warcraft universe more than anything in Shadowlands did/will moving forwards.
I love hearing Mcconnel defend his paladin. The best video was when he had a whole paladin "help group" and they all hopped in one at a time. Love you guys
Uthers gathering 😂 that video and the mechagon hardmode are my favorite
I as a Blood Knight listenning to this argument between those two ... dude .. what a tragedy. What is better ... Silverhand or Warriors ... well non. Blood Knights forever dude! Do you think aliance paladins are cool? Think again! Do you think we have to believe in holy and be righteous to wield holy magic? Do you think we have to beg the light for it's blessings? NO and NO AGAIN! We take what we want. We use what we want. WE ARE THE BLOOD KNIGHTS!
@@T3RS1 blood knights were the Sith Lords of WoW
To tag into that argument though….Varian Wrynn died to trash mobs and he seemed to be a warrior
You wanna duel!!?!
The best thing about McConnel is that he rp's a paladin irl without knowing it, even down to the zealotry.
The Scarlet Crusade was one of my favorite factions in WoW back in the day - I even collected all the Scarlet Crusade items cause I thought it was such a cool outfit. God, this makes me wanna log onto WoW again.
one of the biggest missed opportunities was making a Scarlet Crusade expansion instead of cataclysm, we could have returned from northrend to see that the Scarlet Crusade is asserting it's dominance and they could have tied that in to the light.
@@nolabets3130 That would have been absolutely incredible. Especially since in WotLK I was running through Scarlet Monastary over and over for wool cloth to sell, so I was deep into it already.
You will hate yourself in the morning if you do. . .
@@UltimateGamerCC See i love that so much, imagine you have them mount their attack aided by the light in some crazy deal they made with the Naaru and this is how you also bring Yrel back into the story, the Allied race questline for the Mag'har Orcs is still one of my favourite moments in all of wow ever.
Dont bro the game u used to know is gone
Funniest thing about the whole "He's not a paladin", is that he uses paladin spells in game in the OHB dungeon from TBC when you go to old SS.
Even in normal scarlet monestary he bubbles in vanilla
Doesn't he use lay on hands when what's her name rezzes him
He wears warrior's armor to honor the fallen warriors of his city
Incorrect, Alexandros only has melee attacks and the event effect ability that all the scene npcs have. You are thinking of the warden commander who not only looks different (and has Asmon hairline), but is part of the thrall plot, not ashbringer one.
Mcconnel saying“Trust me, buddy. Sacrificing something for your friends is something you’ll never understand” was too deep and personal 😂
Asmon bought his pc twice
Huge elephant in the room is Asmon has provided endless opportunities for McConnell to build his platform and get rich from it, but alas the legendary paladin known as Mccool only streams when rent is due.
@@Dead2rights843he got drunk and pissed on it
@@e39shadyur weird
@@viktorpettersson9975 ur mom
27:20 I believe for the member of the scarlet crusade, since many of them were former veterans of the second war, a war which they fought together with dwarves and high elves against the orcs, it definetly makes perfect sense for them to having member or being friends with high elves and dwarves, and not having any predjudice against those races. Scarlet crusaders hate orcs, trolls, and whatever brutal war-oriented race that is part of the horde, because in the past said races invaded and ravaged their home. And they hate the undead and the scourge, cause their home was destroyed and stolen by these.
The Hall of Champions featuring members of other races like an high elf mage, and high elf ranger, and a dwarf paladin, is not a plothole. If anything, it's the hate that the scarlet crusade is supposed to harbors towards any race outside of human (or even for any living thing outside of the members of the crusade) that is heavily exagerated and unjustified to a point of bad writing.
Alexandros Mograine is such a badass even in death, dude even took his own sons skull and had it forged into his new blade the Fatebringer.
Damn, I had no idea. Thanks! TIL
okay some of the dk starter quests sucked (yes specifically the one where you have to autoattack people), but I take massive offense to saying the starting zone sucked, it was an amazing and epic experience
Almost every quest employed some sort of cool tech new to the expansion. It was the first time we've seen phasing utilized to such an extent as to actually see the impact we had on the zone as we go along. Every quest rewarded talents or a piece of awesome looking armor, there was even a quest to go out and steal a horse before corrupting it and making it your mount.
The DK starter experience was amazing and this guy is just wrong imo
I think it's because it actually gives you backstory and let's you play through it. Can't think of another time that happened
this
Yeah especially since the quest with the auto attack was meant to bring the expertise with one handed swords up to snuff, before they completely discarded it with cata... There was an idea behind it.
No, no it wasn’t.
asmon's hairline is like our economy, experiencing a great recession
The economy is like my hair line actually, non existent
I wish I had as much hair as the economy
I heard you can pay for a hair line but it involves having your ass hair just above your forehead, i instantly regretted not washing my ass for the past 32 yrs
Asmon has more hair strands than I have earned in stocks
Thanks to sloppy joe! yup!!!
I got so frustrated that I literaly went to my bookshelf, pulled out Ashbringer comix and scrolled through it as if my life was at stake. You can't imagine how happy I was when I actually found it. So yeah. He was paladin and not just warior with light infused weapon.
I think there's a very good chance that they'll bring back the Scarlet Crusade, in some capacity, when the "Light is bad and evil and stuff" expansion comes out. With the way Yrel has been acting up on Draenor, that expac is definitely incoming, potentially after Dragonflight, and it seems like a very obvious candidate for an force of evil and uses the light. Also, it should be fairly easy to do canonically, as the Crusade *would* have seemed to be wiped out on *Azeroth*, while in reality having moved their remaining forces to Draenor to assist Yrel in her crusade.
What Yrel been up to in Draenor?
@@flavor2984 Just some genocide, ethnic cleansing, that sorta thing. Check out Bellular's video(s) on it, he covers it really well! Or play through the starting experience for Mag'har orc for some of the first-hand experience.
I would say you're crazy, but modern Blizzard is so trash that they would actually just go there and say "lol light bad, cuz reasons"
They are back in the Hallow's End new questline and apareantly the Forsaken Heirtage questline as well.....in both cases Demons were involved
Didn't Mograine actively participate in the process of turning the Shadow Orb thing into what they forged the Ash finger from? Directly using the light to do so?
McConnell is incorrect, it isn't usually Warriors that graduate into Paladins it's Priests.
Canonical lore for Paladins: Priests figured out how to wear plate while fighting the Scourge.
Anduin: Human Priest who became a Paladin.
Lady Liadrin: Blood Elf Priest who became a Paladin.
Yrel: Draenei Priest who became a Paladin.
Delas Moonfang: Night Elf Priest who became a Paladin.
Now some Paladins were Warriors first like Alexandros Morgraine and Aponi Whitemane, but most Paladins of note were former Priests.
I think that's where the different specializations come into play, with the priests that become paladins being Holy, and the warriors either Protection or Retribution.
Anduin is still a priest according to the story team. Guess being a priest, wearing plate and fighting with a sword isn't enough for some reason
@@EternalBaladeur I call bullshit, they just don't want to admit he's a paladin now because of Hearthstone or something.
@@FerreiraDeAssis Liadrin and Yrel would probably disagree with you on that (Being prot and ret respectively).
@@thenerdbeast7375 Yes I agree it's stupid, he's definitely a paladin in my eyes too, but ultimately, we don't get to choose, Blizzard's in charge
To be Fair, Tirion Fordring saved the blackrock orc Eitrigg, as an honorbound favor when Eitrigg saved him first. That's how he actually got excommunicated in the first place. They fought at first but after the tower collapsed, Eitrigg felt that leaving him to suffocate under the rubble would simply leave a bad taste in his mouth, being an extremely oldschool noble savage archetype.
So he pulled him out. Once Tirion came to and understood what the old Orc had done, he instantly felt he was indebted to him. Once Eitrigg got captured by the other humans and was about to be executed at Stratholme, Thrall, his warriors and Tirion swooped in and saved him, for which he got excommunicated from the Paladin order and was stripped of his Light. Eitrigg proclaimed Tirion as his brother by honor. The two have been friends until Tirion died. And since, Eitrigg has always been diplomatic when it comes to the Alliance and especially humans, seeing that they can be just as honorable as any Orc.
It's no grand story of glorious combat, but it's a pretty wholesome tale of an Orc ( a BLACKROCK Orc at that) and a Human finding true bromance in a time where the two races were at each other's throats, right after Orgrim's Horde was shattered. And as a Horde, honor is above all else, and Tirion will always be among the most awesome humans in Warcraft lore.
EDIT - 23:10 Actually, the Forsaken are literally the same citizens of Lordaeron. So, in all fairness, it's THEIR city, but Sylvanas should've been booted out way earlier I agree.
I read "Of Blood and Honor" but what's that have to do with anything
I legit appreciate that Asmon actually watches the ads for the videos he reacts to, and doesn't just skip them like most other content creators do.
Like he said once, "If I'm gonna steal their content, the least I can do is watch the bit that paid for it."
Name one content creator that skips them
Shroud?
@@davidlundgren6153 most people will skip it and plug their own sponsors.
@@davidlundgren6153 all of them. name another who doesn't?
@@davidlundgren6153 X skips it often
Alexandros Mograine is absolutely a paladin, there is a point where someone was talking about him and said he could reduce undead to ash without drawing his sword, and that people mistakenly started calling the weapon Ashbringer when the real Ashbringer as the man himself.
I find how Light's Wrath kept exploding over and over extremely hilarious.
to be fair to tirion krosus didn't actually kill him he just incapacitated him. He was then tortured for however long it took us to get to him in lore and passed away after giving the ashbringer away
Also he quite literally tried to solo a Legion raid boss in Wrath gear.
Some of those bosses still can't be easily soloed in Shadowlands gear. Good on him for lasting as long as he did.
But Mograine has used holy power, if I recall that right.
Back in "Escape from Durnholde", there is a small event of creation of the crystal into "light" version.
As for Tier 3 armour. Well, it supposed to be the DKs' armour.
That’s exactly what I said him and a priest where u using holy power to uncorret crystal
Okay so here is how I rationalize the first paladin thing. I think it makes sense that the earliest paladin(s) could had been a warrior, because it had been so early that there were no paladin practices set in stone yet, they just wanted to smite undead and protect the people. so the "paladin" would had just continued with what they already knew. why use time to learn something new when you already kick ass.
I dont base this on any facts or research, just trying to rationalize the scenario.
There's one little thing that he forgot to talk about.
In the burning crusade, there is reference to them cleansing the dark crystal in the town of Southshore in the dungeon "Escape from Durnholde keep." There you can also find the children version of scarlet crusade bosses playing out their iconic boss fights. Like little Devault acting as Sally's bodyguard and when he falls she acts to resurrect him as her champion.
Asmon and McConnell arguing whether Alexander Mograine was a Warrior or Paladin and which was a better class
*Death Knights over in the corner munching Popcorn*
According to Wowpedia Paladin.
Deathknights are just failed paladins.
@@zoeith6 that's about as far from what Death Knights actually are as it possibly gets. Death Knights are former heroes, of any class, that fell in battle and were strong enough for the Lich King to personally recognize their usefulness and resurrect them in his image. Those he doesn't just become another faceless zombie in his horde of undead. Death Knights can be best described as the Lich King's personal shock troops. Their unholy powers being a mirror of the being who gave them a second life.
@@KaleidosXXI No, I'm not forgetting that. Everyone knows Arthas was a paly. He's quite literally one of, if not the, most popular characters in the entire franchise let alone WoW itself. Arthas forging them in his corrupted image does not make them "failed paladins" like the other guy claimed. The proper term would be "anti-paladin". To fail at something you have to attempt it, and they're not trying to be Paladins. Their whole point is being the polar opposite.
@@chamathnadeeshan4008 He doesnt contribute to the forging at all, its Tirion, back then Priest Fairbanks and Inquisitor Isillien that cast spells.
Alexandros is even the only member there that doesnt have mana.
If you do the cavern of time dungeon where you see the creation of the Ashbringer. You see Mograine cast light magic towards the gem. I understand we never saw him use actual light in fight but he's a Paladin. He was the best fighter tho wich explain why he was more of a warrior than a paladin.
You should watch the movie behind it. Its called tales of the past, has 3 parts.
ah that cringy warcraft fan anime what a nostalgia
@@cpt.mirones5109 copyrighted music, DBZ style fights, self insert mary sue..... the good ol days
@@cpt.mirones5109 yeah it was kinda cringey ngl but it is what it is.
The scarlet bosses as children are also there and if you follow them as they are running around town, they'll pretend play out the iconic boss battles. Like devault "falling" in battle and Sally "resurrecting" her champion
i mean, in the lore, the first paladins are the best warriors of the alliance getting a much needed upgrade to help even the odds vs the Horde... so he kinda has a point :p. incidentally thats why Alexandros is wearing Dreadnaught. he's the best warrior, that was what qualified him to apply to become a paladin in wc2 xD
I believe it was priests being taught by warriors, but close enough.
@@Aetherian1 it's mostly the other way around, but your point has a lot of truth in it. after saving Northshire, the most elite warriors of the alliance (Tyralion, Dathrohan, Fordring and Gavinrad) were offered to be trained in the way of the light by Archbishop Alonsus faol. Though they were joined with his own apprentice - Uther, who became the fifth founding member, and whom they taught the ways of the warrior. so while on principle it comes from wanting to empower the warriors who saved the day and allow them to not just protect but heal the innocents. in reality it's a symbiotic relationship between warriors and priests teaching each other.
@@Aetherian1 Correct, I read recently the first warcraft books and it is indeed Priest being trained as Warriors.
Also Calde, you are wrong on a few names. Turalyon was a priest apprentice back then in the first war.
@9:32 I think he forgot about the TBC dungeon Hillsbrad foothills because if you go to the inn it has him in there I'm assuming using judgement but with the casting of smite to the very object that made the ash bringer
i thought paladins were just priests who went to the gym
-1
i love it when you react to platinum's videos. platinum is hilarious and then you add to it and it's a synergistic effect
The Argent Dawn should have taken "Fenris Isle" keep for a decent foothold and base of operations. Definitely would hvae been better than just the church being out in the open.
These videos are so good. Classic worldbuilding was something else compared to today
Mcconnell can only scream fight me! because he's playing a class who's modus operandi consists of healing themselves until they finally wear down their opponents patience and they let them win.
Love it when McConnell randomly chimes in and lays down the law
such a shame we never got a proper scarlet crusade raid, wouldve loved to get epic scarlet crusade themed outfits for every class
What is the background music playing in the original Platinum Wow video starting at 39:52? I can't remember where I recognise from?
31:43 - we where just in Scarlet Monastery and now in Wrath of The Lich King for some reason.
After Monastery we should be doing Hearthglean, then Strathemholm.
Didn't Alexandros Mograne heal the Void Heart pre Ashbringer forging, right along side Tirion Fordring?
scarlet crusade had the greatest waifu wows ever seen tho
how can they really fall with that
when you go to Old Hillsbrad, and view when they cleanse whatever material Ashbringer was forged from, Mograine himself doesn't help cleanse it, he's the only one out of those surrounding him that doesn't put any of The Light into the weapon.
the editings from the vids are so great xD
Imagine having a update version of scarlet crusade it will be cool
We all know why we like Lady Whitemane. It's the thickness.
Mograine was a paladin for sure. The only reason he wore T3 armor in vanilla was because it was the gear of choice to look like a Death Knight. You can still see it in retail's Naxxramas with the death knight mobs.
I remember getting the dog whistle from the hound master which was pretty cool
What’s going on with the background shadows at 41:25? MonkaW
This video has got to be one of PlatinumWoW's best... and that's really saying something
Idk the headless horseman episode was soo good tho and the music video is what pushed it over the edge 😂
One of the best villains that you can get players invested in are ones they understand, but don't agree with. Blizzard balanced them out fairly well in vanilla, and then, like everything else Activision Blizzard does, they fucked it up.
I don't understand why, if you go back to tyr's hand and check the scarlet crusade remnants, you can only see undead scarlet's, what happened?
That "yes" at the Keeps ad just kills my soul. At some point you just have to accept fate my guy. Ether a product like that will help you and work or you accept it and maybe just shave it off.
he used dreadnaught armor because they wanted to make a deathknight and the only armor that looked like that they had designed was warrior t3
What i think sucks is that in cata, Tirion returns to Hearthglen and you can talk to him about him wanting to reclaim lordaeron.
Thoras Trolbane, another Awesome Warrior. Not to mention the Warriors from the Legion Artifact weapons. Lorewise.
The voice over at the beginning sounded like the disembodied voice of Lowtax circa 2004
I just love asmons face when hes going back and forth mcConnell lmfao. 11:46
His face literally says "wait for it...wait for it...."
Alexandros Mograine was one of the several people who used holy magic to change the crystal in the Ashbringer from shadow to holy, him casting a holy spell. He was in the warrior tier because they didn't have death knight tier back then and it was just the armor they had him wearing when he was one of the Four Horsemen. I'm pretty sure Asmongold was just trying to make a joke but since it wasn't even remotely funny I am clarifying just to make sure.
Thats what i thought. It was the closest armor set to death knight at the time.
I did find it funny.
Incorrect, Mograine never cast any holy magic in either form (game or comic). He doesnt even have a mana bar in game during the event in caverns of time.
It was pretty funny, pals are clowns
Used to sell runs to SM with my shadow priest. Both enjoyable and helped grow the Horde. While also paying for my mount.
fun fact before they retconned the lore alexandros mograine was the scarlet highlord and one of the founding members of the scarlet crusade
Alexandros Mograin is actually more of a warrior than a paladin. You can get that from ingame quest texts.
If Asmon watched his own videos or had the memory he claims to have, he know that in TBC clasic when they watched the Ashbringer, he was a paladin and used holy magic.
What happened to the last ban appeals video?
The reason why Alexandros is wearing the tier 3 warrior set is because after he was killed he was raised as a death knight in naxxramas and the devs needed the closest thing to "I'm a dead, vengeful spirit" when Alex executed Renault.
The devs back then were teasing wotlk, also becoming a DK is the end fate of any warrior or paladin of any worth, and that's why DK's are better than either.
light's wrath was the single reason I pvp'd in legion, the overheat ability was ridiculous
25:22 even YT subtitles see what they have done there
the anguished look over the keeps sponsership was too real
Mograine actually uses a healing spell on his hand in the ashbringer comic. GG.
The Scarlet Brotherhood was a direct rip, name and everything, from Greyhawk, one of the two original D&D settings. It even had a 1e AD&D sourcebook all about it.
I agree with the scarlet crusade when it comes to gnomes, who can honestly say they didn't get any pleasure doing the gnome death ball quest.
Alexandros used the TIER 3 warrior set because he was on his Death Knight form, as in Naxxramas, Death Knights use that tier.
I fucking LOVE that whenever "Paladin" is mentioned Mccool has to chime in. I wish i had a friend play wow or ffxiv with me for15 years plus like Asmon and Mccool.
Doesn’t Alexandros use holy power when their purifying the ashbringer crystal in that one instance?
How the heck did it go from paladin lore to McConnell "duel me" ?? I can't figure out the thought process.
Please review the Slap Fighting Championship...
He didn’t even bubble in SM cath.
if a paladin is an updated warrior, doesn't that mean people that use them need that extra help. So why would it take more skill to use a stronger version of a character? Is having better options more difficult because you can't figure out what to do and when? Or do I have to play WOW to understand?
I dont know why Asmon always says "I dont know if Bolvar became a paladin" he was literally a Paladin, Muradin calls him a Paladin in ICC
I guess the Scarlett Crusade could return if we get a Light expansion in which Yrel invades Azeroth with a army of light an allies with the scarlet crusade. But who knows.
Fuckind dead when Keeps ad start rolling, just straight up lost my breath
41:27 is that a ghost flying around in your room?
Woah 👻👀
6:05 Mcconnel couldn't take it anymore 😂
The targeted ad was hilarious!!!
Invar one-arm's blade drops in ulduar. It is really good for prot paladins.
When they made Ashbringer they all who became a high rank of the first paladins even Alexander Mograin was cleansing the artifact crystal and Alexander was one of them actually throwing holy light on this dark crystal to cleanse it. There you have it. He is a Paladin
On Paladins taking L's. I don't think Lady Liadrin has every taken a big loss, they were able to drive the Death Knights out of the Paladin order hall back in Legion
1:52 best moment, "Keeps...."
"This is just like finding nemo but.. a lot more zombies"
Here's an interesting question: how come the Ashbringer didn't turn Alexandros into ash when Renault used it to stab his own father, like it should have?
Also, Duke Lionheart died to Tyrande Whisperwind, and Sir Henery Lionshield was never used on the same level.
If you go to Old hills bread you can see him infusing the crystal with holy energy so yeah
There's a Google search explaining what Alexandros Mograine. Formerly knight. Then warrior...then paladin then death knight.
That NPC in the beginning sounds like he’d hug a root for a bowl of soup.
Just wanna say on the wowwiki, Mograine is listed as a Warrior, Paladin, DK. Hehe
why does Light's Wrath make me think of the Orks strapping their Weird Boyz to a stick and waving them around like a giant wand lmao.
In Mccool’s defense, why would a Paladin need to use holy spells when he has a powerful sword? He has them, just doesn’t use them unless he needs to.
ol buddy was real mad about the paladin jabs
I think it was Lothar who was also a part of the knights of the silverhand. In WC1 orcs and humans, lothar was just a knight. Did not have the paladin spell. He was a fucking tank of a unit compared to the other paladin hero units
Remember when dungeons and raids were all part of this world that felt alive? Different factions all wanting their own things. It made the game feel like a world with nuance and depth. Now it’s just playable story cinematics on the “it’s a small world” style ride.
"Whoa, Fairbanks.....did you not see the puppet show? " 😂
Tbh, the crusaders running deeper and deeper into scourge territory blowing themselfs, and everyone else with the staff, is something a guild in game would surely do if they had the chance, just for lulz, to see how far they would be able to go.
Alexandros Morgraine was actually a warrior, by lore. And he didn't founded SC, it was estabilished after his death, but whatever ;D
Get to Ad and seeing that it was Keep's and seeing his reaction had to like the video xD
As I recall... There's a Scarlet Crusade loyalist that's joined the Dark Moon Fair. You can buy a Scarlet Crusade cosmetic set from him, to fund the rebuilding of the Scarlet Crusade. He's over by the stables/petting zoo.