That's what happens when there is no shrouding cause by the valve next to the cylinder wall. The 6.4 and 6.2 start out at 4.090 bore and plenty of 4.125 engines being built with stock blocks. That's a 6.4 truck head, not hellcat or SRT8 (those all have the same ports though). The late 5.7 head 09+ has a smaller chamber and valves and works better in a 5.7 with the smaller bore, the 6.4 head will bolt on and run but the small bore is close to the intake valve at low lift. The early open chamber 5.7 head is the worst one but is better than any stock big or small block Mopar wedge head. The 6.1 is about the same flow as the latter 5.7 but has a bigger chamber that is also open. That's the 4 different stock port designs in a nut shell. Thank you for doing this comparison! Always nice to hear something good from an unbiased source.
Wow, those intake numbers are right on the heels (20 cfm) of my fully CNCd BBC heads. Hemis are the H cup of the engine world. Well, that and the 4V Cleveland heads.
I have wondered about this. Even the chamber looks really good as far as getting the air moving. There are some ported heads that claim to go 300 at 0.400, I believe it seeing this.
The best factory heads for the gen 3 hemis actually "ome on the 3/4 and 1 ton pickups on the 6.4 hd gas trucks. But the 6.2 and 6.4 heads are pretty close as well.
How so? The castings are the same on the "bge" heads for newer cars and trucks. Truck heads as a whole are actually worse because they don't have stainless valves
These probably are the 3/4 ton truck heads. You can tell they are NOT hellcat heads by the intake bolt pattern. You can tell by the reinforcement in the pushrod area they are not the "SRT8 heads". They are the big ports like hellcat and SRT8 so that basically leaves BGE truck heads. They could be 2018 and later SRT8 heads because that was when they started using the truck castings on the SRT8 cars. Based on the fact he said they were not sealing that means they probably got high miles and not many SRT8s built after 2018 are high miles yet. So again I think they are truck 6.4 heads but there is a slight possibility they are 18+ SRT8. All 6.2 and 6.4s use the same port configuration so the flow numbers should be basically the same on any of those.
I ❤️ anything to do with a hemi, back in the day if you didn't have a hemi,don't even unload off the trailer cuz them hemis are here and they win.. lol.. my uncle would say, he had bout 20 ,sold em all to 1 guy eventually. But I still got 1 of his 500ci nitro hemis in the old top fuel dragster out back actually. I wanna big garage and hang it upside down from the ceiling if I ever hit the lotto.
And of course it's all keith black internals with a kb supercharger on it. They wr friends because he broke down and mr black was the only person to stop n help him on the side of the road in Cali.. Friends instantly,Cool story I loved hearing.
Darin Morgan said they dont use the hemi style head because it comes into its own only above 10000 rpm. They have the twisted chamber with the valve placement rotated approx 45deg to each other since it makes more power. Since the rules dont allow for higher rpm.
I would expect the inlet swirl would be almost non existent as the flow is so straight. What would be the side effects of that ? Maybe doesn't matter too much with EFI and fine atomizing injectors ??
After seeing the 300 i6 Ford with a pair Cleveland head braised together, and it ran strong, in a drag car, I was thinking maybe a set of these hemi heads on a Chevy 250/292 i6, weld them together, custom pistons or use a supercharger, maybe fill the ports slightly to get the velocity up, especially being a smaller engine, especially with about 12:1 compression, it should be a screamer, definitely require a main girdle, and studs, maybe scat could make a 4340 crank and rods, a set of billet main caps possibly add a splayed second bolt , not Shure what the Brazilians do, but they make 2000hp with these engines, with a lot of stock parts, and boost! With modern pistons, and hemi heads, it would be a spicy engine, maybe even build a striker, around 320 cid, what would be awesome is adding a cam or two to the heads, with VVT,(v-tec) basically a Honda k24 head, with 2 valves/ cylinder. But 4v would be awesome, a slightly larger K-Series head. Or J- series on a chevy i6 could be awesome, if the bores are spaced close, trim the end of two heads, and weld them together, create a cam coupling, a custom cam set will likely be required, but a i6 Chevy with v, v-tec even 250cid should make good low TQ, and possibly 300hp stock maybe more than the vortec 4200, I'd like to play with one of those, they can make power using the LS formula, just add boost! But a 6-71 on a 250/292, with 100mm throttle body and injectors just under the supercharger, with intercooler under it,a large 6-71, to allow it to spin slower and more efficient, less heat. A turbo would be cheaper easier, and probably more peak power, but the roots booster, could in theory produce 10-20 psi at just above idle! With a 8:1 compression, and geared to produce 2-5psi boost at 700 rpm, use a blow off valve to recirculate the boost to regulate pressure, at high rpm, like a wastegate, it could make huge low end TQ, enough rambling for now! Good day!
Some guys have killed themselves to get nissan VK 5.6l heads to work on a SBC. the difference in bore spacing is less than 0.010 and with the bigger bore on the sbc it doesnt shroud the valves. After the first guy did it everyone realised a set of rods and pistons for a VK v8 was cheaper than hours of Hodge podge.
They spent time with Tom Hoover who engineered the Chrysler 426 Hemi in the 60's. That's why it has 2 spark plugs per cylinder. The bulk of Vizard's work is on small block chevies. No way would they use his input.
Excellent video Eric. Just so you are aware, Darton makes a MID sleeve for boosted applications in the 6.1 block. Couple that with a 4.050" stroker crank and you can get 440 cubic inches. With these heads ported and a pair of mid-sized turbos, you could push 1000+ hp on mild boost. Just need traction! LOL!!!
@@jwise7114 I was thinking streetable sized turbos, such as the 59mm remote mounted turbos from Squires, now owned by Holley. And I am only talking 10-12 lbs of boost for longevity. Squires’ personal car is a Z06 vette with the same system and puts between 1000-1100 hp. This would fit nicely in a ‘69 Roadrunner or even a newer Challenger with the HHP or MVS Superbird conversions.
@@jwise7114. Actually, just a 1,000hp turbo and nothing else and these engine will make 1,000hp. However, the more Na power the less boost you will need. Longevity is another story at those numbers, need more parts,
The 6.4 blocks can easily go to 4.125 bore and combined with a readily available 4.25 crank 454 CID is easy without even using the Darton sleeves. Since the 6.4 SRT8 can easily make 580 HP N/A (mildly worked drag pack intake 950HP carb 2 inch long tubes) without removing the valve cover I don't think it would take much boost at all on a 7.4 to make 1000 HP, heck the factory is doing more than that with a 6.2 and a warranty!
@@davidphillips3953. You don’t even need to change the displacement, a lot of guys are dropping in the MMX piston/ rod combo with lots of ring gap in the 5.5-6.4L and adding big CFM blowers/ turbos. The big thing is having billet Mains if you are running 1,500+hp. You can also get around 600hp Na with stock PTV clearance & bottom end on the 6.4L; however, you will be limited to the low 230’s on the intake side of the cam due to this.
There was also a Gen1 392 hemi. It was similar to the 354 and smaller gen1 but had a taller deck and unique lifter angle. If you look at 392 gen1 cams the will say they only work with 392, and that means 392 block. Its like how the ford Coyote is 5.0l. The block is almost the same size as the 4.6l blocks. A 5.0l is iconic with mustangs, you can keep rollin in your 5.0.
This isn't much help, but apparently in the range of 225cfm on the intake port bone stock. Considering their history, I'd bet porting them could yield surprising results. If true, this is roughly the same as a stock 906 onward Mopar wedge head. What I've written on the early Hemi Desoto is hearsay so take it with a grain of salt. I would say it is probably in the ballpark at least.
And they flow good ,but my 6.0 LS takes down them stock to stock. Now we beef them up and hear comes the boom,. Hemi wins with half the work, they need hemispherical heads for LS.❤
What cutters did you use intake and exhaust wise? I just did a stock set and I think I ran a 51 thou intake and 70 thou exhaust. I use a mondello cutter on LS heads and that’s 43 thou 30/45/60 with a nice radius. Only thing I don’t like is that it likes to chatter so I use my 2003 holder and heaviest ball driver.
Those appear to be 6.4 BGE heads. Should be the same as 6.2 besides exhaust valve material. I believe the 6.2 has a different valvejob than the non-blower heads but have not confirmed.
This might be the first head i've seen you flow that never backs up all the way to 1.000". The intake port flow of 285@.400" is serious and over 310cfm@.50, almost 230cfm@.300" is also excellent. Is this the factory 6.2L Hemi heads?
they are 6.4 heads but the only difference is the intake bolt pattern, the 6.2 head has the bolts much farther toward the outside of the engine to make it easier to bolt on the stuper charger.
Yes it’s the 6.4 heads but are the BGE heads that came equipped on the ‘14 and later 2500 Rams as well as the, I believe, ‘18 and later cars. They are the same casting as the 6.2 Hellcats made from 356 T6 Aluminum.
I've done several cam and lifter replacements on the 5.7, and 6.4 , and I always laugh when I see how large the intake ports are, also a note to those playing with them, the exterior walls near the exhaust ports _are not thick_ I have seen several damaged by pry sticks, and broken stud removal, I know most of your viewers are smarter than that, but....
they don't touch until they are both open about a half inch, you can have a ton of overlap with that much lift but like Eric mentioned you don't need a ton of overlap because the intake starts blowing out the exhaust.
@@davidphillips3953 agree Early hemi had issue with valve crash Back in the day These newer style I do believe are differ angle to reduce crash but people love shuffling big cam in
@@Freedomishere-im6ug the valves are different angle to reduce chamber size so you don't need a ginourmous dome on the piston to build compression ratio.
@@Freedomishere-im6ug My 384ci(6.1 block 4.055X3,72) runs AFR Big bear heads, custom LSM cam .890/.870Lift 270@50 lsa 104, Rockers and Lifters are Jesel , still a F-ton of room between those valves at their closest.
The lifter angles and cam location in the gen 3 hemi is garbage. So ya you can make serious steam with them, don't let one idle for more than 30-60sec.
That's what happens when there is no shrouding cause by the valve next to the cylinder wall. The 6.4 and 6.2 start out at 4.090 bore and plenty of 4.125 engines being built with stock blocks. That's a 6.4 truck head, not hellcat or SRT8 (those all have the same ports though). The late 5.7 head 09+ has a smaller chamber and valves and works better in a 5.7 with the smaller bore, the 6.4 head will bolt on and run but the small bore is close to the intake valve at low lift. The early open chamber 5.7 head is the worst one but is better than any stock big or small block Mopar wedge head. The 6.1 is about the same flow as the latter 5.7 but has a bigger chamber that is also open. That's the 4 different stock port designs in a nut shell. Thank you for doing this comparison! Always nice to hear something good from an unbiased source.
Also cool how it NEVER backs up on the intake or exhaust
Wow, those intake numbers are right on the heels (20 cfm) of my fully CNCd BBC heads. Hemis are the H cup of the engine world. Well, that and the 4V Cleveland heads.
Yep, those are better than I thought they would be. If you did enough of them, you'd find what works best. Great job!
Crazy numbers that were only gotten from aftermarket BB heads just a few years ago!
Love the Hemi😊
In a word, yes.
Damn, I was contemplating rebuilding my 440, I'm just dumping a junkyard Gen3 in it now and get the overdrive trans.
I have wondered about this. Even the chamber looks really good as far as getting the air moving.
There are some ported heads that claim to go 300 at 0.400, I believe it seeing this.
That's what happens when the valve is not shrouded by the cylinder wall and opens away from it even more s it opens.
The best factory heads for the gen 3 hemis actually "ome on the 3/4 and 1 ton pickups on the 6.4 hd gas trucks. But the 6.2 and 6.4 heads are pretty close as well.
How so? The castings are the same on the "bge" heads for newer cars and trucks. Truck heads as a whole are actually worse because they don't have stainless valves
These probably are the 3/4 ton truck heads. You can tell they are NOT hellcat heads by the intake bolt pattern. You can tell by the reinforcement in the pushrod area they are not the "SRT8 heads". They are the big ports like hellcat and SRT8 so that basically leaves BGE truck heads. They could be 2018 and later SRT8 heads because that was when they started using the truck castings on the SRT8 cars. Based on the fact he said they were not sealing that means they probably got high miles and not many SRT8s built after 2018 are high miles yet. So again I think they are truck 6.4 heads but there is a slight possibility they are 18+ SRT8. All 6.2 and 6.4s use the same port configuration so the flow numbers should be basically the same on any of those.
@@davidphillips3953 yes correct they are the BGE heads.
I ❤️ anything to do with a hemi, back in the day if you didn't have a hemi,don't even unload off the trailer cuz them hemis are here and they win.. lol.. my uncle would say, he had bout 20 ,sold em all to 1 guy eventually. But I still got 1 of his 500ci nitro hemis in the old top fuel dragster out back actually. I wanna big garage and hang it upside down from the ceiling if I ever hit the lotto.
And of course it's all keith black internals with a kb supercharger on it. They wr friends because he broke down and mr black was the only person to stop n help him on the side of the road in Cali.. Friends instantly,Cool story I loved hearing.
I could have sworn bbc has way more wins
The 6.2L HEMI's all had good heads. The 5.7L HEMI's got the good heads in 2010.
2009 m y
03-08 heads can be a great head in the right hands
Very good information.
Thank you.
Darin Morgan said they dont use the hemi style head because it comes into its own only above 10000 rpm.
They have the twisted chamber with the valve placement rotated approx 45deg to each other since it makes more power. Since the rules dont allow for higher rpm.
I would expect the inlet swirl would be almost non existent as the flow is so straight. What would be the side effects of that ? Maybe doesn't matter too much with EFI and fine atomizing injectors ??
I believe those are 6.4 heads.
The 6.2 supercharged heads have different intake bolt pattern
After seeing the 300 i6 Ford with a pair Cleveland head braised together, and it ran strong, in a drag car, I was thinking maybe a set of these hemi heads on a Chevy 250/292 i6, weld them together, custom pistons or use a supercharger, maybe fill the ports slightly to get the velocity up, especially being a smaller engine, especially with about 12:1 compression, it should be a screamer, definitely require a main girdle, and studs, maybe scat could make a 4340 crank and rods, a set of billet main caps possibly add a splayed second bolt , not Shure what the Brazilians do, but they make 2000hp with these engines, with a lot of stock parts, and boost! With modern pistons, and hemi heads, it would be a spicy engine, maybe even build a striker, around 320 cid, what would be awesome is adding a cam or two to the heads, with VVT,(v-tec) basically a Honda k24 head, with 2 valves/ cylinder. But 4v would be awesome, a slightly larger K-Series head. Or
J- series on a chevy i6 could be awesome, if the bores are spaced close, trim the end of two heads, and weld them together, create a cam coupling, a custom cam set will likely be required, but a i6 Chevy with v, v-tec even 250cid should make good low TQ, and possibly 300hp stock maybe more than the vortec 4200, I'd like to play with one of those, they can make power using the LS formula, just add boost! But a 6-71 on a 250/292, with 100mm throttle body and injectors just under the supercharger, with intercooler under it,a large 6-71, to allow it to spin slower and more efficient, less heat. A turbo would be cheaper easier, and probably more peak power, but the roots booster, could in theory produce 10-20 psi at just above idle! With a 8:1 compression, and geared to produce 2-5psi boost at 700 rpm, use a blow off valve to recirculate the boost to regulate pressure, at high rpm, like a wastegate, it could make huge low end TQ, enough rambling for now! Good day!
Some guys have killed themselves to get nissan VK 5.6l heads to work on a SBC. the difference in bore spacing is less than 0.010 and with the bigger bore on the sbc it doesnt shroud the valves.
After the first guy did it everyone realised a set of rods and pistons for a VK v8 was cheaper than hours of Hodge podge.
D port exhaust are eagle. The apache followed something about height of on upper castings. Being taller.
Also the guys who designed the gen 3 hemi apparently used alot of david vizards work on valve inclination. As well as other things.
I doubt they used anything he said.
They spent time with Tom Hoover who engineered the Chrysler 426 Hemi in the 60's. That's why it has 2 spark plugs per cylinder. The bulk of Vizard's work is on small block chevies. No way would they use his input.
The engineers who worked the gen 3 computer design programs probably don't even know who he is.
Dave vizard was about 10 the first time a mopar got a hemi
I think they looked at what Ford Boss looked like. Or some Fiat heads from the 60s.
Eric what Goodson or Woodward cutter would you recommend for a LS3 unported strip only valve job.
Great numbers, well he won’t miss the 5hp loss ,lol..although it might make more with less flow on the exhaust who knows, lol..wait that’s ford..
Excellent video Eric. Just so you are aware, Darton makes a MID sleeve for boosted applications in the 6.1 block. Couple that with a 4.050" stroker crank and you can get 440 cubic inches. With these heads ported and a pair of mid-sized turbos, you could push 1000+ hp on mild boost. Just need traction! LOL!!!
That's a ton of crap to make only 1000hp.
@@jwise7114 I was thinking streetable sized turbos, such as the 59mm remote mounted turbos from Squires, now owned by Holley. And I am only talking 10-12 lbs of boost for longevity. Squires’ personal car is a Z06 vette with the same system and puts between 1000-1100 hp. This would fit nicely in a ‘69 Roadrunner or even a newer Challenger with the HHP or MVS Superbird conversions.
@@jwise7114. Actually, just a 1,000hp turbo and nothing else and these engine will make 1,000hp. However, the more Na power the less boost you will need. Longevity is another story at those numbers, need more parts,
The 6.4 blocks can easily go to 4.125 bore and combined with a readily available 4.25 crank 454 CID is easy without even using the Darton sleeves. Since the 6.4 SRT8 can easily make 580 HP N/A (mildly worked drag pack intake 950HP carb 2 inch long tubes) without removing the valve cover I don't think it would take much boost at all on a 7.4 to make 1000 HP, heck the factory is doing more than that with a 6.2 and a warranty!
@@davidphillips3953. You don’t even need to change the displacement, a lot of guys are dropping in the MMX piston/ rod combo with lots of ring gap in the 5.5-6.4L and adding big CFM blowers/ turbos. The big thing is having billet Mains if you are running 1,500+hp.
You can also get around 600hp Na with stock PTV clearance & bottom end on the 6.4L; however, you will be limited to the low 230’s on the intake side of the cam due to this.
Would love to see 03-08 pre-eagle 5.7 heads ported, because those flow "only" 260-270cfm.
Maybe someday.
They have smaller valves as well, 2.0 and 1.575 or something.
Indy Cylinder head ported my 6.1 heads and claim 370 cfm.
In your opinion, what is the best cubic inch to us with this head. I’m wondering if dodge picked the 392 for that reason.
There was also a Gen1 392 hemi. It was similar to the 354 and smaller gen1 but had a taller deck and unique lifter angle.
If you look at 392 gen1 cams the will say they only work with 392, and that means 392 block. Its like how the ford Coyote is 5.0l. The block is almost the same size as the 4.6l blocks. A 5.0l is iconic with mustangs, you can keep rollin in your 5.0.
Yep they is 😊
Yep. It’s good
I’m curious if you’ve ever flowed vintage hemi heads. I’ll be rebuilding an old Desoto FireDome in the near future.
This isn't much help, but apparently in the range of 225cfm on the intake port bone stock.
Considering their history, I'd bet porting them could yield surprising results.
If true, this is roughly the same as a stock 906 onward Mopar wedge head.
What I've written on the early Hemi Desoto is hearsay so take it with a grain of salt. I would say it is probably in the ballpark at least.
@@ThePaulv12 - Thank you… the input is appreciated
BGE blocks can be bored to 4.165, 6.1 block can go as larger as 4.09 , Eagle 5.7s are limited to about 3.947 , the older 03-08 blocks can go to 4.06
I've heard some 5.7 blocks can go to 4" bore
And they flow good ,but my 6.0 LS takes down them stock to stock. Now we beef them up and hear comes the boom,. Hemi wins with half the work, they need hemispherical heads for LS.❤
Not on my bench they don’t ls3 flow 318cfm these went 340. The hemi was better everywhere.
They do make a hemi head for Ls. It’s called the hammer head.
Ls7vdsys different and the nee lt heads do as well
AWSOME VIDEO GREAT WORK
Ever done mopar B1 head?
When you say there's bigger exhaust ports- Are you saying there's bigger on a regular production head?
What cutters did you use intake and exhaust wise? I just did a stock set and I think I ran a 51 thou intake and 70 thou exhaust. I use a mondello cutter on LS heads and that’s 43 thou 30/45/60 with a nice radius. Only thing I don’t like is that it likes to chatter so I use my 2003 holder and heaviest ball driver.
I don't give that out. They are custom to me.
Those appear to be 6.4 BGE heads. Should be the same as 6.2 besides exhaust valve material. I believe the 6.2 has a different valvejob than the non-blower heads but have not confirmed.
hemi tried and did well. it makes me wonder what the ford 7.3 heads are like its modern times is anything ls3 is a dinosaur now.
Right on
Fiat learned from those Gen 2 hemis
This head first showed up in a Mopar in 2010, fiat and Chrysler merged in 2014 so maybe sit this one out and learn something.
This might be the first head i've seen you flow that never backs up all the way to 1.000". The intake port flow of 285@.400" is serious and over 310cfm@.50, almost 230cfm@.300" is also excellent. Is this the factory 6.2L Hemi heads?
they are 6.4 heads but the only difference is the intake bolt pattern, the 6.2 head has the bolts much farther toward the outside of the engine to make it easier to bolt on the stuper charger.
@@davidphillips3953 outstanding
Yes it’s the 6.4 heads but are the BGE heads that came equipped on the ‘14 and later 2500 Rams as well as the, I believe, ‘18 and later cars. They are the same casting as the 6.2 Hellcats made from 356 T6 Aluminum.
Tooo much turbulence on wedge combustion chamber, this is the main problem. You know anyway.. Merci for video.
how many C.C. Is the intake port>? is it too big?
It’s not cc it’s csa that’s important
Thank you for your knowledge and videos USA 🇺🇸 USA 🇺🇸 USA 🇺🇸
I've done several cam and lifter replacements on the 5.7, and 6.4 , and I always laugh when I see how large the intake ports are, also a note to those playing with them, the exterior walls near the exhaust ports _are not thick_ I have seen several damaged by pry sticks, and broken stud removal, I know most of your viewers are smarter than that, but....
What's a 6.2 hemi is it just a .010 over 6.1 lol
If they overlap at wrong time both valves crash
yep
they don't touch until they are both open about a half inch, you can have a ton of overlap with that much lift but like Eric mentioned you don't need a ton of overlap because the intake starts blowing out the exhaust.
@@davidphillips3953 agree
Early hemi had issue with valve crash
Back in the day
These newer style I do believe are differ angle to reduce crash but people love shuffling big cam in
@@Freedomishere-im6ug the valves are different angle to reduce chamber size so you don't need a ginourmous dome on the piston to build compression ratio.
@@Freedomishere-im6ug My 384ci(6.1 block 4.055X3,72) runs AFR Big bear heads, custom LSM cam .890/.870Lift 270@50 lsa 104, Rockers and Lifters are Jesel , still a F-ton of room between those valves at their closest.
Afr has a new line of hemi head out. As always trounces stock heads
I am waiting to see them.
the entry level one is about the same flow but 3 or 4 times the cost. I haven't yet seen one of the bigger versions...
Yet so few fast cars
The lifter angles and cam location in the gen 3 hemi is garbage. So ya you can make serious steam with them, don't let one idle for more than 30-60sec.
I don't care who you are thats funny right there! And of course NOT true!