Customer of mine has a 2007 charger rt 5.7 with 2013 eagle heads , 0.051" head gaskets , 6 psi from a d1sc supercharger , 93 octane , built and tuned by myself and hasn't had a single issue with it at all. I think being scared of higher compression came from guys pushing the limits early on and breaking things , tuning has come a long way since then and it's not nearly as scary a combo anymore.
Low compression, high pressure is old guard thinking from the 1950s where it didn't matter how many PSI you made, the stock compression ratios and fuel available at the time wouldn't allow for what we can do today. OEMs are making Gas direct injected turbo engines with 10.5:1 or 11:1 compression, because it makes them more power efficient, as far as gasoline is inefficient in comparison to turbodiesel.
Thank you man I’ve been scared to do this hemi swap to my 04 ram and I’ve been wanting to do headers, eagle heads and cam but I’ve been scared cause this is going to be my first time doing stuff like this but seeing how well you explain has made me more confident in this swap keep it up brother
Good follow-up video. I think there is a case for the pre E block with E heads and pistons, price!!!!! You are far more likely to find a cheap pre E block and in many cases in the junk yard they dropped a valve. You'd need heads and pistons and could score those used or even replacements. Now you could do the ultimate non vvt 5.7 and not have to worry about locking the cam or any phaser running. I personally like that idea. This is another option to consider especially when retrofitting into your favorite classic. I'm just happy Mopar boys are in the discussion after GM and Ford being the go to for years with swapping parts from an engine family.
Compression ratio is also a relative term to some degree. Static compression ratio is a thing, but the cam is really what ultimately determines the actual value. When the valves open and close give you the dynamic compression ratio that is the real number, though buying off the shelf parts would mean a higher static ratio is going to lead to a higher dynamic one as well.
I'm building a 05 5.7 and added eagle heads and few other things, stock headgaskets , pushrods , scared to start her up cause everyone says compression gonna be to high what do you think @200shot ramHemi
I have a 2006 300C with the eagle heads and the higher compression pistons Melling oil pump, push rods, piston rings and after a mild tune it has 13.1 to 1 compression and gets 413 HP to the wheels and 418lb-ft of torque on stock transmission.
@@stronkgi8604 Is it possible to run that set up on cheap 87 fuel? I doubt the gas quality would give more than 10+hp. I just want 400hp nothing crazy for my stock 5.7 charger
It's actually 12.4 to one with .030 gaskets , I've been running that combo for a few years , the guy who built my 05 ram has been running eagle heads since 2016 in his 04 ram. Also there is a .120 head gaskets out there.
Thanks for your honesty and humbleness. On that note, and for the sake of learning from this community, I was told that you shouldn't stack headgaskets especially under boost due to the fire rings not having a good seal, since you're now introducing multiple paths to a compression leak. I would think this could be mitigated with o-ringed copper shims? But now you've introduced another layer of material with different thermal and torque properties... Anyways, thanks for your content and this community.
Some old school Hemi guys used to stack head gaskets to obtain specific CRs, however they used copper shims in between them. I have a 66 426 that was a drag motor that had this at one point.
Another great video Sky! Did you happen to compare the piston ring thickness between the two pistons? I do believe the Eagle has thinner rings as well. This not only reduces friction and frees up a bit of horsepower but provides better sealing. They also beefed up the connecting rods for the Eagle, the more you research the Eagle the more impressive it becomes...they really pulled out all the stops and pulled off every trick they could think of to optimize these engines, I am very much a fan.
I think I've read you need spacers to use the eagle intake on the pre eagle block because the peak on the block interferes with the bottom of the intake manifold? I even believe MMX sells the spacers for that very reason.
Great update! Nice to see the side by side comparison and get the hard numbers by measuring. I have a few questions: Are you tuning with HP tuners? Will you be doing a video detailing your supercharger setup with those adapter plates ? I’m doing a similar build (05 300c .020 over, eagle heads with the .070 HG, comp cams hrt stage 2 220/230 and springs) I have this feeling I’m going to want more power, and a low impact supercharger might be perfect. I’ll be following your build closely! Also, I have the adjustable pushrod tool you will need to get the correct pushrods for your build, after tomorrow I won’t need it and would be willing to loan it out. Would be a cool video subject. I’m in Oregon if you’re interested
I think you can definitely tune your way around the high compression ratio, but I think you will have to pull a surprising amount of timing to prevent knock. The high CR though will spool up the turbo really quick though. Going with a taller head gasket is probably the "easiest" way to clean up the CR a bit, however, if you're doing a head swap, then it probably means you're a fairly accomplished mechanic and you might be willing to dip your hands into porting those eagle cylinder heads. If you de-shrouded the valves, you would probably pick up a tiny bit of flow, but more importantly shave off material to increase the combustion chamber size, and having a side effect of dropping the CR. As I've said before in other posts, your willingness to get the right info out there, even if it means admitting you were mistaken, is why I like your channel so much. I had an 08 block hemi with apache heads, but some yahoo that owned it before me decided to swap out a single piston with an eagle piston. I wish I would have known which cylinder it was before I dug into it because it would have been interesting to see how it affected the compression test. The supercharger looks nice sitting on top of the engine!
I’m not a mechanic, just a pipefitter. However! Gaskets are some of the most vital components of any system. Double stack gaskets? Enjoy the leaks. Glad you’re vehemently opposed to that idea
Run E 85? Bigger injectors n a tune. Might be pretty Good 13 to 1 compression. Make sure the valves clear. Stump puller. Thicker gaskets are gonna make lots a new problems. Intake might not fit? Pushrods are gonna have less preload. What about swapping pistons. I heard eagle engines have floating wrist pins. Non eagle are press fit. Can you just hone the rods n put the floaters in? Or do you need the rods also?
3:00 everything I have ever read always said the 03-08 pre eagle motors are all 9.6:1 compression, and nothing changed in that time as far as pistons and heads. In 2005 when the 6.1 was released that motor had I believe a 10.2:1 compression, and it wasn't until 09 when the eagle hemi came out that a gen3 hemi had a compression of 10.5:1. Am I wrong or what?
It's tough to say really. I'm getting my information on the compression ratios direct from Chrysler since I'm a Dodge tech and I have access to all the service information. That being said, even the factory manuals are not always correct. I think the only way to know for sure would be to directly compare a 04 engine to an 06 engine and see if there are any differences.
@@ReignitedAuto - I have a Dodge Magnum RT - manufacturing date of 05/05 - listed as a 2006. It would be great to discover I have a 10.5:1 compression. :D
I have never disassembled an 06,07,08 that wasn't roughly 9.6ish to one, I haven't seen any pre eagle pistons that are vastly different then the 03-04s the 09+ are clearly different, the top ring-land is lower "dome' is flatter.
@@rickgehring7507. So what have you found the compressed factory gasket thickness to be ? I wouldn’t sweat the 12:1 with 93 octane or e85. With the goofy cams they are spitting out for these there is so much bleed off that I wouldn’t be surprised if the dynamic isn’t back to 10.75 +/- 2-3%.
@@Doc_Fischer 11.7ish with stock gasket is what I've found the compression to be...Doc , did you read my post on this Video(just curious) My 04 GTX I ran Eagles on my stock short block from early October to May of 2022 with .028 OEM gaskets.......over that stretch of time I ran 30(seriously 30) different cam grounds......funny thing is no matter the cam, it made it's best power with max 24* of timing by 3k RPMs max, most cams liked 2500-2700 RPMS ... like you said todays "cams" bleed off. Every one of these Eagle Head swaps I've rebuilt, when I look at the timing map, there's too much timing, the stock pistons are just not strong enough for the long term, abuse of near 12to 1 Compression the edges are just too brittle, same reason why 10+ lbs of boost breaks piston tops ..........Good Pistons & 93 Oct(E-85) and 24* total timing, and All is AWESOME, as for Dynamic compression , with the OEM cam it's just under 11.1(ish) to 1 depending on the health of the OEM short block, the SRT6.1 cam is just under 11. last weekend I had a 395(5.7 base) with Eagles(milled to 63cc) 14.6 Dome Icon Pistons .040 gasket , total Compression is 15.25 to 1, it's a beast on 100oct, and 93...well it's Hemi and they LOVE compression
Good video, great explanations. My 2 cents...My preference would be to build the engine with a Static C.R. of around 9.50:1, plus/minus 0.25 for a Supercharged or Turbocharged application, street car on pump gas or E85. For nitrous, probably around 10.75:1, plus minus 0.25...presuming street car with pump gas or E85. I'd probably also o-ring the block/heads, but that would depend on how much boost intended to run, what fuel (pump gas, E85, race gas, etc.), and valve events from the Cam and it's impact to Dynamic C.R. And obviously the Tune; building a base Map then dialing in the A/R and Timing, etc. Obviously developing a plan on paper first is essential along with calculations (math) encompassing stack clearences and all aspects. Also intended usage for the vehicle (street, street/strip or strip only) clearly factors in. Thanks!
Any compression ratio less than 10:1 is old guard trash thinking. Why would you ever make gasoline more inefficient than it already is, by lowering it's compression ratio? We have fuel sources that will deal with pre-det. Regardless of how inefficient it is comparatively to turbodiesel.
What is the break over point on boost and compression then? I was taught that you don't ever want to go over 9.5:1. Anything above that you will bend rods and break ring lands.
It's all about tuning really, if you have lower compression you can be more aggressive with timing. But really the issue is the knock resistance of the fuel you are using. If I switched to e85 then I would have no concerns at all about running this compression ratio since it is so resistant to detonation. As it is with pump gas, I'll probably dump a bottle of octane booster in with a full tank and be a little conservative with timing and it should be fine. I don't think there's any hard "rule" these sure with compression since tuning capabilities have gotten so much more complex. 👍
OK. That makes sense with the timing and tune. At what point with boost and compression does self detonation come into play with gas and it begins to act like a diesel where timing won't matter? I hope my question makes sense.
Keep up the good work. Make a video about removing MDS on a stock hemi and or using lifter with the relief hole in them? With MDS delete. I figure it would have excellent oil flow around the lifters.
I've been running and or built serval different Eagle head combo's on 03-08 blocks since spring 2016, My Nephew Taylor(Jensen) has my old 05 Rumble Bee which has 45k miles on that Eagle headed stock 05 Short block. My current 04 GTX daily driver was swapped to Eagle heads in fall of 2017 and I ran that combo to spring of this year(2022), now it has a set of Apache heads... With -.003 deck height and .028 steel shim gaskets, Compression is roughly 11.7 to 1 with the OEM 03-08 pistons, Eagle head chambers can vary as much as 3 CCs, 03-08 Hemis - deck height can be as deep as .007(.007+028 gasket and 67CC Eagle heads will yield 11.27 to1 ) I keep total timing for 93OCT to 24* all in by 2500 RPMs, for 89 oct , WOT is limited to 21 all in by 2500 , PT spark table is limited to 26* below 70KPA, 70KPA to 105 is limited to 21*. With the Eagle Truck Intake you can heat up and reshape the underneath of the TB Inlet ,but even then you still need at least 3/8 in spacer to clear the widows peak. The 1st "test" engine I did this swap to I ground down the area where the H20 sensor is in the block, formed a piece of alum and JB welded it in place for clearance so I could use a Intake off a 2012 5.7 Challenger. One of the Best Intakes for this swap is OCP dual plane intake, don't be fooled with the term Dual plane Intake, that manifold will hold it's own with many modern oem Hemi Intake , it will not out power the SRT6.4 but it's within 20 peak HP and will make the same Tq#s below 5k RPMs ........ I've run Drag pak,Prefix, Ritter ,Holley Sniper,(and Race) Holley Hi ram SRT6.4, 6.4 truck intake...even a Home brewed Modified LSX Holley single plane intake, and a cut up welded together Frankenstein looking Edelbrock 351C RPM intake, I've run 2.165 Intake valves , 1.63 Exhaust valves, Cams as large as .600 lift......the biggest issue with this swap is going too far with timing, all of the OEM timing curves are too aggressive for the 03-08 OEM pistons (@11.7 to one compression) eventually the edges above the ring lands will break. FWIW .070 thick head gasket brings you down to 10.5 (all things being perfect) Cometic does make a .140 head gasket for those who want 9.0 compression from this combo.....FWIW that head gasket will hold up to 20LBS boost with Inconel studs and good fuel. {edit: with the OEM 03-08 pistons , I personally think even 10.5 is too much Compression for this Combo and Stock Timing curves found in 04-08 OEM hemi vehicles}
Love your videos, Do you have any information on what modifications it would take to drop a 09+ eagle engine onto a 06-08 ram 1500? vvt lockout obviously but past that im curious if it can be done, I have zero luck finding a clean 03-08 engine to drop in. I dont have the time to build the 08 engine up the way i would like. and there are so many low km 09+ engines around for cheap,
It's absolutely possible, but it's a great deal of work and money. I've got a 2017 engine in my 05 Magnum. The first thing you'd have to do is remove the crankshaft and remove the trigger wheel and replace it with the trigger wheel from your original engine. Fortunately it bolts right into place. After this VVT lockout yes, then you also have to replace all of the accessories, because the timing cover on the newer engines is further out, meaning none of your original accessories would line up anymore. I'm speaking specifically about the alternator and A/C compressor. Next, the newer heads will not accept the old style intake manifold, so you have to have the newer intake, which does not have any provision for EGR, so you'd have to turn off the EGR system using a tuner. There's a couple other minor things, but those are the initial hurdles.
@@ReignitedAuto I have a good core 08 and a good core 09 both have the cam/lifter issues. If i can find a low km 03-08 to drop in i would just do the hv oil pump and go. But its looking more likely ill do: 08 block, 08 bottom end, 08 pistons, .070 hg. eagle heads 09+ ram truck intake manifold and headers. Anything to watch out for when doing a eagle head swap? worth keeping mds or no? and either way the egr has tobe turned off. use 08 injectors or 09+ injectors? loving your content keep it up
Long time listener, first time caller. Can you make a video going over the differences between the 2003-2005 compared to the 2006-2008 hemi engines? I believe they have small differences, but I’d love clarification
So, I have an 03 Hemi which should have 9.6:1 compression. Did you do the math on the early model pistons too see what the compression ratio would be with eagle heads? I assume the math in the video is based on the higher compression 05+ pistons you mentioned.
Nice 👍 video as always , also I notice in American cars ppl shy away from high compression in euro we run super charger on a bone stick 4.2 with 12.5.1 compression from 8psi to 12psi with connecting rods an 93 octane and they never blow
I'm debating on doing an eagle head swap on my 2006 300C, mostly for the extra HP and not having to worry about valve seats, but I'm not sure about it since I can't find an eagle intake manifold for less than $500 online. Maybe try a junkyard? I've already got long tube headers that are meant for eagle heads, but it seems I'll be in about a grand for the heads and intake, not including sending them to a machine shop, and tuning. I'd also probably be installing them on stock gaskets and just live with the higher compression and premium gas. On stock heads, I'll be able to do 87 gas, but would need to dish out $800 to get them redone so I won't need to worry about valve seat drop.
Great video and great info. I have a 05 Hemi in 02 Dakota and I wanted some more power after I drove a SRT8 Charger. Can I swap the Eagle pistons and rods into the 05 block and use the Eagle heads? I think your correct on the early 03-04 5.7s having different pistons. I had a block from a 04 and the pistons were slightly different than a set I had from an 05. If I still have them I'll double check.
The compression ratio isn't the biggest concern. It's the 70 thousandths head gasket on a boosterd engine. You're probably gonna start blowing gaskets.
@@ryotaryuu the stock head gasket is stronger then almost every aftermarket one on the market. Even shops like high horse performance and forza tuining use them. High boost all you need is factory gasket and a set of arp head studs. All shops will recommend factory gasket
There's no chance I'll have this combo together anywhere near that long. I'll likely play with it for a few months then put the car back to stock and sell it. I'm always looking toward the next project. 👍
Eric what’s your thought on 13:1 CR? I’m building a 6.4 & fixing to pull the trigger on a set of high compression forged pistons. Since I have a small amount of work done to my Eagle heads I plan on using them until I get my 6.4BGE heads worked. Therefore with the Eagle head I’ll be sitting about 13:1 CR then after awhile running the BGE heads which will put me at 12:5 CR. Reason I’m asking I haven’t really heard engines not lasting as long with a high CR well with a good tune anyways.
Many times reman heads will have a little round metal button stuck to the back of them identifying them as reman. The button is about the size of a nickel and warns that if tampered with the warranty is void. Other than that they're no real way to tell externally if they are reman or not.
Great update! The thing with not lowering the CR below 10 is that it doesn't leave a lot of room for playing with different boost levels and fuel octanes, right? You are already at the edge of knock, so how much more A/F can you force inside with premium fuel before you detonate? You might end up having the SC and the Turbo running at low boost, I wonder how that would play out. Looking forward to the next one!
Boost is just a number based on temperature/pressure differential and airflow restriction. More boost is not always the answer, especially if you are running up against mechanical friction with roots positive displacement air blowers. Higher compression with a blower speed, and airflow output that is more in line with the efficiency of the blower, is actually better. Spinning the blower faster to get more PSI isn't a solve all for your power needs. This is old thinking from the 1950s when engines had 6.5:1 compression and it didn't matter how much pressure you were throwing into the engine.
The only thing about that high of a compression is no pump gas on that compression but if you decide to keep that number of compression there’s a few benefits of that high of a compression is less boost needed and also less intake air temps but the reliability is questionable I’ve seen a few guys trying to make power on boost and things don’t go as planned PFI channel has one that blew trying to make 1k hp under boost.
I think there's two different questions there, the first question is will the blower bolt up at all, which technically it will, but getting the front accessories to work properly would be a challenge in my opinion, since the 6.1 does not have VVT and that changes the front cover significantly it would be hard to get the hellcat timing cover/pulleys to line up correctly. The second question is will the engine handle the boost, and I say it would. I would probably open up the factory ring gap, but I feel like the stock bottom end could handle the power.
You will only have CR of 10.5 to 1 after swap.... No worries. Just use Shell 93 premium gasoline... Mahle makes pistons so you will have CR of 9.5 to 1 for boost application.
@@ReignitedAuto the block in this video was Boost+ 12.5 to 1, that block saw between 950-1000 hp with a stock cast crank, stock main caps and OEM main bolts...Not my choice ,customer wanted to see how much HP we could make on the stock crank....Rods were Manley 300M and pistons were Dimond(I think, it's been awhile.) twin 88mm turbos , truck was running 9.70s at 145MPH weighing in at 4450/4500lbs ua-cam.com/video/qrhSiNPqajk/v-deo.html
@@ReignitedAuto I just wasn't sure and I was trying to find it for myself. Whenever I look anything up for 2005 it obviously says 9.6 and the same 345 horsepower and 390ish torque. For 2009 it says 10.5 compression, about 370ish horsepower and about the same torque. It's a little confusing lol
@@jerodwolford2743 you're absolutely right that it is confusing 😄. Even the info we get from Chrysler isn't always 100% accurate so who knows if its truly correct.
@@ReignitedAuto eh, still plan to put one in my dakota 😂. There are ways to test it but I don't know those ways and I don't have an engine to test it on lol. Looking for the twin charge build man
So 2005 up has 10.5 CR? I tought all 03-08 are same 9.6 CR. Many VAG, BMW etc turbo engines has around 9.5-10 CR ratio. Im not fan of thicker headgasket or spacer, because losing quench area. What i think is important to avoid detonation etc problems on SC engines.
you can have the heads combustion chamber milled and ported and that would also lower the compression ratio. Ive never seen that done though i would be interested in if that actually would work.
Good stuff, but like others have said, pretty sure all Pre Eagles are 9.6 Comp, as for your build being FI, I would forsure go with the Eagle heads and Eagle pistons, in an NA application the stock Pre Eagle pistons would be perfect, but Lower comp is the way to go with FI 👍
I've triple checked it using various vehicles through my Chrysler service information and all Hemi engines 05+ list the CR at 10.5:1, regardless though, ask my math was done using piston volume, combustion chamber volume, cylinder volume, ect... So the math should be fairly close. Agreed that the eagle pistons would be a better choice, but I'm kind of morbidly interested in how this engine will last in its current form. Maybe not long, but at least I'll have good data for you guys 👍
@@ReignitedAuto I could be wrong about this, but don't all Pre Eagles have the +9cc dome pistons, 0.028 gaskets, and the 85cc Heads? What changed in 2005+ to raise the compression that much?
@@captainboose8788 I belive it has to do with the MDS system because after 2005 they started putting the MDS system in the engines to make the EPA happy.
@@captainboose8788 I don't know because I don't have a pre 05 engine in my shop to compare, but that's what Chrysler service info is telling me. Even they aren't always 100% accurate though 😄
@@ReignitedAuto Haha, yep, would be neat to be able to compare them all back to back, but yeah, unless they changed the pistons to higher compression pistons in 2005, they all should be about 9.628:1 according to my math (which could be off also lol)
Question: I put eagle heads on my 2007 ram 1500. There is a ground strap that runs from the firewall on the passenger side to the back of the pre-eagle heads. There are no tapped holes on the back of the eagle heads. Where should I hook the ground strap?
Stacking gaskets would most definitely screw up torque specs. Im not sure about that but im about to oook into getting pre eagle pistons. What gains may that yeild N/A?
@@HDUG7up 03-08 , Chambers are 84/85ish, fairly consistent, Intake valve is 2.0 ,Runner is 160/162cc, Exhaust valve is ungodly small @1.55 and Runner is 56CC, Intake flow is between(.300-.650lift) 240-265CFM@ 28in, 09 heads Chambers are listed as 65,I've measured as big as 67 and as small as 64,Intake valve is 2.05, runner is 184/186 ,Exhaust valve is 1.57 and runner is 80cc, Both heads the biggest low buck gain is Exhaust valve, both respond well to 1.625 valve, the 03-08 if you reshape them similar Brodix SBM head's D shape.....It opens up a great new world, the 09 heads just need some smoothing on the Exhaust side, the Eagle head can take up to a 2.165 size Intake while the 03-08 is limited to 2.125 size.....PIE(www.performanceinjectionequipment.com/ ) has the best flowing 03-08 head they will hit 340CFM @.650 lift. both heads have their respective advantages.
So I'm getting ready to powder coat my 5.7 Eagle hemi Intake Manifold I've already attempted to remove it however there's a rubber hose in the very back, I couldn't get this off. If you could point me in the direction to get it disconnected properly to make this process smooth that would be great.
This hose is the vacuum line to the brake booster, the best way to break it free is to twist the hose using a pair of pliers right where it connects to the intake manifold until it spins freely, then pull the hose off. My one caution is don't squeeze the hose too hard or you might break the plastic nipple it attaches to.
Does anyone run water/methanol inection anymore? Years ago a friend of mine had a built C6 Vette with 12.5 compression and many other mods. He had a tank he filled with rubbing alcohol and water, and it was injected into the air intake tube before the throttle body. This allowed him to run a pretty wild tune on 91 octane pump gas without detonation. I haven't seen anyone using that method since then, and that was 10 years ago
Will the ring land on the Pre-eagle pistons be able to handle compression that high with boost? I’ve always heard that they are the weak point in regards to boost. Thank you!
Hey I'm actually building a 2006 charger rt with pre eagle block with eagle truck heads I put everything together having issues with head gaskets an a bent push rod I have a few questions
Missed a few steps in between lol Ferment switchgrass, Distill switchgrass, Avoid ATF (or file for volume production) 🤣 Long term plan for my 392 is building a 13:1 CR stroker. Though I'm curious what CR you could achieve using a 392 crank in the hellcat 🤔
Just buy the right pistons, ya put those thicker gaskets on, Its gonna change the preload on your lifters because the pushrods are too short. If ya gonna go boosted why mess with the factory Cast pistons , also if you put eagle piston and rod assemblies there is a 1 oz differnce on the weight so you need to properly have the whole rotating assembly balanced.
I wouldn't be afraid to run 11.8 to 1 on a forced induction engine. But I am afraid to run boost on an engine with a .070 thick head gasket. That's an awful wide gasket to try and resist the added pressure of the blower in my opinion.
But the 09 up intakes don't fit the pre VVT blocks. They require a spacer to clear the front hump of the block, it hits the runners of the intake Very annoying
Ya I mentioned in there towards the end that if you do go with the thicker head gaskets you'll need to get custom length pushrods. I believe it's available as a kit from MMX though.
6.1 Is a weird mix of eagle and pre-eagle. Mostly pre-eagle, but with port designs that match Eagle stuff, no EGR port and the lower rocker assy height, shorter valves etc.
Hey buddy. I have a 2019 Ram 1500 Rebel with 5.7 hemi and have installed a oil catch can which is collecting a fair amount of oil. Why does my hemi pass so much oil, or what is exceptable?
13.4 O_O yo. that might be a nasty build. Canadian here, i run 91 octane all the time, wonder if that'd be good enough or if you'd need the good 93 (not sure where to get that where i live) or even aviation fuel. Or just some octane booster deal. from 10.5 to 13.5? Makes me think
Also, you should have your own engine school. I feel like I'm listening to a good teacher. Again, well done dude.
I appreciate that Pierre thank you!
Sir, YOU are the fountain of knowledge that EVERY Dodge forum needs.
Try disinformation
Everyone makes mistakes, it’s owning up to it is what counts, great information, thank you 👍😁
Customer of mine has a 2007 charger rt 5.7 with 2013 eagle heads , 0.051" head gaskets , 6 psi from a d1sc supercharger , 93 octane , built and tuned by myself and hasn't had a single issue with it at all.
I think being scared of higher compression came from guys pushing the limits early on and breaking things , tuning has come a long way since then and it's not nearly as scary a combo anymore.
Low compression, high pressure is old guard thinking from the 1950s where it didn't matter how many PSI you made, the stock compression ratios and fuel available at the time wouldn't allow for what we can do today. OEMs are making Gas direct injected turbo engines with 10.5:1 or 11:1 compression, because it makes them more power efficient, as far as gasoline is inefficient in comparison to turbodiesel.
Thank you man I’ve been scared to do this hemi swap to my 04 ram and I’ve been wanting to do headers, eagle heads and cam but I’ve been scared cause this is going to be my first time doing stuff like this but seeing how well you explain has made me more confident in this swap keep it up brother
Good follow-up video. I think there is a case for the pre E block with E heads and pistons, price!!!!! You are far more likely to find a cheap pre E block and in many cases in the junk yard they dropped a valve. You'd need heads and pistons and could score those used or even replacements. Now you could do the ultimate non vvt 5.7 and not have to worry about locking the cam or any phaser running. I personally like that idea. This is another option to consider especially when retrofitting into your favorite classic. I'm just happy Mopar boys are in the discussion after GM and Ford being the go to for years with swapping parts from an engine family.
Those are good points Durell 👍
You are my favorite Hemi channel.
You litterally answered like 3 questions I had about the piston setback from the deck at tdc! I honestly thought my rods were wrong!
Well done dude! Thanks for being so honest. Makes this channel even more worth watching and sharing! Keep it up.
Thanks for the heads up on this issue!
I see what you did there 😄👍
Looking forward to seeing this build!
Love the attention to detail on your build. I also have a hemi and you helped a lot, brotha
Compression ratio is also a relative term to some degree. Static compression ratio is a thing, but the cam is really what ultimately determines the actual value. When the valves open and close give you the dynamic compression ratio that is the real number, though buying off the shelf parts would mean a higher static ratio is going to lead to a higher dynamic one as well.
I am running Eagle heads on my 04 5.7 block with a comp 273 cam and Holley high ram on e85 on stock head gaskets
Nice! Appreciate the feedback, any issues so far?
@@ReignitedAuto no issues yet, gonna Dyno and Track it soon to show results
I'm building a 05 5.7 and added eagle heads and few other things, stock headgaskets , pushrods , scared to start her up cause everyone says compression gonna be to high what do you think @200shot ramHemi
@@aaronmahathir7479 throw some Vp 110 in the tank to be safe and start her up, you don't want to detonate
@@200shotramhemi4 forgot to ask is the e85 set up a kit or do you have to put it together yourself ? Thanks in advance!
Kid I've been around along time. We have doubled the intake gaskets and it does work.
I have a 2006 300C with the eagle heads and the higher compression pistons Melling oil pump, push rods, piston rings and after a mild tune it has 13.1 to 1 compression and gets 413 HP to the wheels and 418lb-ft of torque on stock transmission.
what fuel do you use
@@secretnick4252 I redid the equation and its actually 12.4:1 and it runs on 93 with a tune from QuickRev
@@stronkgi8604
Is it possible to run that set up on cheap 87 fuel? I doubt the gas quality would give more than 10+hp. I just want 400hp nothing crazy for my stock 5.7 charger
@@jlrockafella With the compression so high anything less than 93 or E-85 conversion will cause detonation
@stronkgi8604
Was that all from another eagle hemi for the swap or did you have to order custom pushrods and cam, ect?
It's actually 12.4 to one with .030 gaskets , I've been running that combo for a few years , the guy who built my 05 ram has been running eagle heads since 2016 in his 04 ram. Also there is a .120 head gaskets out there.
Tay it's 11.7ish
9.6 stock compression with 85cc heads. Eagle heads have 65cc chambers, so 9.6 x 85/65 = 12.55:1 compression. with gaskets, Taylor is spot on. 12.4
Thanks for your honesty and humbleness. On that note, and for the sake of learning from this community, I was told that you shouldn't stack headgaskets especially under boost due to the fire rings not having a good seal, since you're now introducing multiple paths to a compression leak. I would think this could be mitigated with o-ringed copper shims? But now you've introduced another layer of material with different thermal and torque properties... Anyways, thanks for your content and this community.
13.4:1 is perfect for an N/A build, burning E85!!😮
Some old school Hemi guys used to stack head gaskets to obtain specific CRs, however they used copper shims in between them. I have a 66 426 that was a drag motor that had this at one point.
some of use still do it.
Another great video Sky! Did you happen to compare the piston ring thickness between the two pistons? I do believe the Eagle has thinner rings as well. This not only reduces friction and frees up a bit of horsepower but provides better sealing. They also beefed up the connecting rods for the Eagle, the more you research the Eagle the more impressive it becomes...they really pulled out all the stops and pulled off every trick they could think of to optimize these engines, I am very much a fan.
You are correct my man, the rings are quite a bit thinner in the eagle pistons. 👍
You and Richard Holdener should collaborate and test the high compression build
I think I've read you need spacers to use the eagle intake on the pre eagle block because the peak on the block interferes with the bottom of the intake manifold? I even believe MMX sells the spacers for that very reason.
Great update! Nice to see the side by side comparison and get the hard numbers by measuring. I have a few questions:
Are you tuning with HP tuners?
Will you be doing a video detailing your supercharger setup with those adapter plates ?
I’m doing a similar build (05 300c .020 over, eagle heads with the .070 HG, comp cams hrt stage 2 220/230 and springs)
I have this feeling I’m going to want more power, and a low impact supercharger might be perfect. I’ll be following your build closely!
Also, I have the adjustable pushrod tool you will need to get the correct pushrods for your build, after tomorrow I won’t need it and would be willing to loan it out. Would be a cool video subject. I’m in Oregon if you’re interested
I think you can definitely tune your way around the high compression ratio, but I think you will have to pull a surprising amount of timing to prevent knock. The high CR though will spool up the turbo really quick though. Going with a taller head gasket is probably the "easiest" way to clean up the CR a bit, however, if you're doing a head swap, then it probably means you're a fairly accomplished mechanic and you might be willing to dip your hands into porting those eagle cylinder heads. If you de-shrouded the valves, you would probably pick up a tiny bit of flow, but more importantly shave off material to increase the combustion chamber size, and having a side effect of dropping the CR.
As I've said before in other posts, your willingness to get the right info out there, even if it means admitting you were mistaken, is why I like your channel so much.
I had an 08 block hemi with apache heads, but some yahoo that owned it before me decided to swap out a single piston with an eagle piston. I wish I would have known which cylinder it was before I dug into it because it would have been interesting to see how it affected the compression test.
The supercharger looks nice sitting on top of the engine!
I’m not a mechanic, just a pipefitter. However! Gaskets are some of the most vital components of any system. Double stack gaskets? Enjoy the leaks. Glad you’re vehemently opposed to that idea
Run E 85? Bigger injectors n a tune. Might be pretty Good 13 to 1 compression. Make sure the valves clear. Stump puller. Thicker gaskets are gonna make lots a new problems. Intake might not fit? Pushrods are gonna have less preload. What about swapping pistons. I heard eagle engines have floating wrist pins. Non eagle are press fit. Can you just hone the rods n put the floaters in? Or do you need the rods also?
3:00 everything I have ever read always said the 03-08 pre eagle motors are all 9.6:1 compression, and nothing changed in that time as far as pistons and heads. In 2005 when the 6.1 was released that motor had I believe a 10.2:1 compression, and it wasn't until 09 when the eagle hemi came out that a gen3 hemi had a compression of 10.5:1. Am I wrong or what?
It's tough to say really. I'm getting my information on the compression ratios direct from Chrysler since I'm a Dodge tech and I have access to all the service information. That being said, even the factory manuals are not always correct. I think the only way to know for sure would be to directly compare a 04 engine to an 06 engine and see if there are any differences.
@@ReignitedAuto - I have a Dodge Magnum RT - manufacturing date of 05/05 - listed as a 2006. It would be great to discover I have a 10.5:1 compression. :D
I have never disassembled an 06,07,08 that wasn't roughly 9.6ish to one, I haven't seen any pre eagle pistons that are vastly different then the 03-04s the 09+ are clearly different, the top ring-land is lower "dome' is flatter.
@@rickgehring7507. So what have you found the compressed factory gasket thickness to be ?
I wouldn’t sweat the 12:1 with 93 octane or e85. With the goofy cams they are spitting out for these there is so much bleed off that I wouldn’t be surprised if the dynamic isn’t back to 10.75 +/- 2-3%.
@@Doc_Fischer 11.7ish with stock gasket is what I've found the compression to be...Doc , did you read my post on this Video(just curious) My 04 GTX I ran Eagles on my stock short block from early October to May of 2022 with .028 OEM gaskets.......over that stretch of time I ran 30(seriously 30) different cam grounds......funny thing is no matter the cam, it made it's best power with max 24* of timing by 3k RPMs max, most cams liked 2500-2700 RPMS ... like you said todays "cams" bleed off. Every one of these Eagle Head swaps I've rebuilt, when I look at the timing map, there's too much timing, the stock pistons are just not strong enough for the long term, abuse of near 12to 1 Compression the edges are just too brittle, same reason why 10+ lbs of boost breaks piston tops ..........Good Pistons & 93 Oct(E-85) and 24* total timing, and All is AWESOME, as for Dynamic compression , with the OEM cam it's just under 11.1(ish) to 1 depending on the health of the OEM short block, the SRT6.1 cam is just under 11. last weekend I had a 395(5.7 base) with Eagles(milled to 63cc) 14.6 Dome Icon Pistons .040 gasket , total Compression is 15.25 to 1, it's a beast on 100oct, and 93...well it's Hemi and they LOVE compression
Good video, great explanations.
My 2 cents...My preference would be to build the engine with a Static C.R. of around 9.50:1, plus/minus 0.25 for a Supercharged or Turbocharged application, street car on pump gas or E85. For nitrous, probably around 10.75:1, plus minus 0.25...presuming street car with pump gas or E85.
I'd probably also o-ring the block/heads, but that would depend on how much boost intended to run, what fuel (pump gas, E85, race gas, etc.), and valve events from the Cam and it's impact to Dynamic C.R. And obviously the Tune; building a base Map then dialing in the A/R and Timing, etc. Obviously developing a plan on paper first is essential along with calculations (math) encompassing stack clearences and all aspects. Also intended usage for the vehicle (street, street/strip or strip only) clearly factors in. Thanks!
Any compression ratio less than 10:1 is old guard trash thinking. Why would you ever make gasoline more inefficient than it already is, by lowering it's compression ratio? We have fuel sources that will deal with pre-det. Regardless of how inefficient it is comparatively to turbodiesel.
Thanks for making this content. I hope you keep making these videos.
We are all constantly learning and we don't know everything. Miss your content from your channel. Come back bro
I wonder if you can pop the pistons in a mill and remove the domes ...
I have a 6.1 hemi engine and i want to put 6.4 apache heads on her already doing a custom build the bore is set at 4.61 will these heads work?
Do you remember by chance what the piston to valve clearance was at top dead center with the eagle heads on the pre eagle Block
not sure if you have mentioned or addressed the replacement pushrods yet either.
It's toward the end of this video 👍
What is the break over point on boost and compression then? I was taught that you don't ever want to go over 9.5:1. Anything above that you will bend rods and break ring lands.
It's all about tuning really, if you have lower compression you can be more aggressive with timing. But really the issue is the knock resistance of the fuel you are using. If I switched to e85 then I would have no concerns at all about running this compression ratio since it is so resistant to detonation. As it is with pump gas, I'll probably dump a bottle of octane booster in with a full tank and be a little conservative with timing and it should be fine. I don't think there's any hard "rule" these sure with compression since tuning capabilities have gotten so much more complex. 👍
OK. That makes sense with the timing and tune. At what point with boost and compression does self detonation come into play with gas and it begins to act like a diesel where timing won't matter? I hope my question makes sense.
I would love to know the what your guess of hp on a pre-eagle with eagle heads would be
Keep up the good work. Make a video about removing MDS on a stock hemi and or using lifter with the relief hole in them? With MDS delete. I figure it would have excellent oil flow around the lifters.
I've been running and or built serval different Eagle head combo's on 03-08 blocks since spring 2016, My Nephew Taylor(Jensen) has my old 05 Rumble Bee which has 45k miles on that Eagle headed stock 05 Short block. My current 04 GTX daily driver was swapped to Eagle heads in fall of 2017 and I ran that combo to spring of this year(2022), now it has a set of Apache heads... With -.003 deck height and .028 steel shim gaskets, Compression is roughly 11.7 to 1 with the OEM 03-08 pistons, Eagle head chambers can vary as much as 3 CCs, 03-08 Hemis - deck height can be as deep as .007(.007+028 gasket and 67CC Eagle heads will yield 11.27 to1 ) I keep total timing for 93OCT to 24* all in by 2500 RPMs, for 89 oct , WOT is limited to 21 all in by 2500 , PT spark table is limited to 26* below 70KPA, 70KPA to 105 is limited to 21*. With the Eagle Truck Intake you can heat up and reshape the underneath of the TB Inlet ,but even then you still need at least 3/8 in spacer to clear the widows peak. The 1st "test" engine I did this swap to I ground down the area where the H20 sensor is in the block, formed a piece of alum and JB welded it in place for clearance so I could use a Intake off a 2012 5.7 Challenger. One of the Best Intakes for this swap is OCP dual plane intake, don't be fooled with the term Dual plane Intake, that manifold will hold it's own with many modern oem Hemi Intake , it will not out power the SRT6.4 but it's within 20 peak HP and will make the same Tq#s below 5k RPMs ........ I've run Drag pak,Prefix, Ritter ,Holley Sniper,(and Race) Holley Hi ram SRT6.4, 6.4 truck intake...even a Home brewed Modified LSX Holley single plane intake, and a cut up welded together Frankenstein looking Edelbrock 351C RPM intake, I've run 2.165 Intake valves , 1.63 Exhaust valves, Cams as large as .600 lift......the biggest issue with this swap is going too far with timing, all of the OEM timing curves are too aggressive for the 03-08 OEM pistons (@11.7 to one compression) eventually the edges above the ring lands will break. FWIW .070 thick head gasket brings you down to 10.5 (all things being perfect) Cometic does make a .140 head gasket for those who want 9.0 compression from this combo.....FWIW that head gasket will hold up to 20LBS boost with Inconel studs and good fuel. {edit: with the OEM 03-08 pistons , I personally think even 10.5 is too much Compression for this Combo and Stock Timing curves found in 04-08 OEM hemi vehicles}
.052 Head gasket brings the compression in around 10.98 to 1 with all things being perfect.
Great information, thank you for posting! 👍
Love your videos, Do you have any information on what modifications it would take to drop a 09+ eagle engine onto a 06-08 ram 1500? vvt lockout obviously but past that im curious if it can be done, I have zero luck finding a clean 03-08 engine to drop in. I dont have the time to build the 08 engine up the way i would like. and there are so many low km 09+ engines around for cheap,
It's absolutely possible, but it's a great deal of work and money. I've got a 2017 engine in my 05 Magnum. The first thing you'd have to do is remove the crankshaft and remove the trigger wheel and replace it with the trigger wheel from your original engine. Fortunately it bolts right into place. After this VVT lockout yes, then you also have to replace all of the accessories, because the timing cover on the newer engines is further out, meaning none of your original accessories would line up anymore. I'm speaking specifically about the alternator and A/C compressor. Next, the newer heads will not accept the old style intake manifold, so you have to have the newer intake, which does not have any provision for EGR, so you'd have to turn off the EGR system using a tuner. There's a couple other minor things, but those are the initial hurdles.
@@ReignitedAuto I have a good core 08 and a good core 09 both have the cam/lifter issues. If i can find a low km 03-08 to drop in i would just do the hv oil pump and go. But its looking more likely ill do: 08 block, 08 bottom end, 08 pistons, .070 hg. eagle heads 09+ ram truck intake manifold and headers. Anything to watch out for when doing a eagle head swap? worth keeping mds or no? and either way the egr has tobe turned off. use 08 injectors or 09+ injectors? loving your content keep it up
Long time listener, first time caller.
Can you make a video going over the differences between the 2003-2005 compared to the 2006-2008 hemi engines? I believe they have small differences, but I’d love clarification
03-08 hemi with eagle heads right… what cam would you run? All the compression tho no thick headgasket… also awesome content im glued.
Awesome video, thanks for the updated information.
So, I have an 03 Hemi which should have 9.6:1 compression. Did you do the math on the early model pistons too see what the compression ratio would be with eagle heads? I assume the math in the video is based on the higher compression 05+ pistons you mentioned.
Nice 👍 video as always , also I notice in American cars ppl shy away from high compression in euro we run super charger on a bone stick 4.2 with 12.5.1 compression from 8psi to 12psi with connecting rods an 93 octane and they never blow
I'm debating on doing an eagle head swap on my 2006 300C, mostly for the extra HP and not having to worry about valve seats, but I'm not sure about it since I can't find an eagle intake manifold for less than $500 online. Maybe try a junkyard? I've already got long tube headers that are meant for eagle heads, but it seems I'll be in about a grand for the heads and intake, not including sending them to a machine shop, and tuning. I'd also probably be installing them on stock gaskets and just live with the higher compression and premium gas. On stock heads, I'll be able to do 87 gas, but would need to dish out $800 to get them redone so I won't need to worry about valve seat drop.
Great video and great info. I have a 05 Hemi in 02 Dakota and I wanted some more power after I drove a SRT8 Charger. Can I swap the Eagle pistons and rods into the 05 block and use the Eagle heads? I think your correct on the early 03-04 5.7s having different pistons. I had a block from a 04 and the pistons were slightly different than a set I had from an 05. If I still have them I'll double check.
The compression ratio isn't the biggest concern. It's the 70 thousandths head gasket on a boosterd engine. You're probably gonna start blowing gaskets.
I run stock gasket on 21 psi over 1200 crank hp
@@jeepwk6.5L how thick is a stock head gasket?
@@ryotaryuu the stock head gasket is stronger then almost every aftermarket one on the market. Even shops like high horse performance and forza tuining use them. High boost all you need is factory gasket and a set of arp head studs. All shops will recommend factory gasket
@@ryotaryuu but that’s a different story if your trying to a achieve compression ration from gasket thickness alone. I think 5.7s was .040
@@jeepwk6.5L sounds about right. 👍
I'm definitely keeping tabs on this build CR this high with fi will definitely blow in less than 30k
There's no chance I'll have this combo together anywhere near that long. I'll likely play with it for a few months then put the car back to stock and sell it. I'm always looking toward the next project. 👍
Eric what’s your thought on 13:1 CR? I’m building a 6.4 & fixing to pull the trigger on a set of high compression forged pistons. Since I have a small amount of work done to my Eagle heads I plan on using them until I get my 6.4BGE heads worked. Therefore with the Eagle head I’ll be sitting about 13:1 CR then after awhile running the BGE heads which will put me at 12:5 CR. Reason I’m asking I haven’t really heard engines not lasting as long with a high CR well with a good tune anyways.
Exactly what i need to do the swap i got an 07 charger 5.7 and i want a eagle heads swap
Sky, any tips on identifying reman g3 heads?
Many times reman heads will have a little round metal button stuck to the back of them identifying them as reman. The button is about the size of a nickel and warns that if tampered with the warranty is void. Other than that they're no real way to tell externally if they are reman or not.
Great update! The thing with not lowering the CR below 10 is that it doesn't leave a lot of room for playing with different boost levels and fuel octanes, right? You are already at the edge of knock, so how much more A/F can you force inside with premium fuel before you detonate? You might end up having the SC and the Turbo running at low boost, I wonder how that would play out. Looking forward to the next one!
Boost is just a number based on temperature/pressure differential and airflow restriction. More boost is not always the answer, especially if you are running up against mechanical friction with roots positive displacement air blowers. Higher compression with a blower speed, and airflow output that is more in line with the efficiency of the blower, is actually better. Spinning the blower faster to get more PSI isn't a solve all for your power needs. This is old thinking from the 1950s when engines had 6.5:1 compression and it didn't matter how much pressure you were throwing into the engine.
We've known for a long time guy. 10.5.1 with aluminum heads and 9.5.1 with cast heads for proper pump gas friendly
Foreshadowing at 8:20...
Great video again. Would you say most of your 5.7 content applies to the 6.1 of the same years? Thank you again for the videos.
No, the 6.1 is 10.3 stock, and has 73cc heads vs the pre eagle 85cc, and eagle 65cc
@@captainboose8788 Can you put the eagle heads on the 6.1? What would the compression ratio be then? Thanks.
The only thing about that high of a compression is no pump gas on that compression but if you decide to keep that number of compression there’s a few benefits of that high of a compression is less boost needed and also less intake air temps but the reliability is questionable I’ve seen a few guys trying to make power on boost and things don’t go as planned PFI channel has one that blew trying to make 1k hp under boost.
Can you put a Hellcat blower on top of a SRT8 6.1l without any engine upgrades?
I think there's two different questions there, the first question is will the blower bolt up at all, which technically it will, but getting the front accessories to work properly would be a challenge in my opinion, since the 6.1 does not have VVT and that changes the front cover significantly it would be hard to get the hellcat timing cover/pulleys to line up correctly. The second question is will the engine handle the boost, and I say it would. I would probably open up the factory ring gap, but I feel like the stock bottom end could handle the power.
@@ReignitedAuto Thanks for the info, I suppose I have to now figure out how to get the pulleys aligned
You will only have CR of 10.5 to 1 after swap.... No worries. Just use Shell 93 premium gasoline... Mahle makes pistons so you will have CR of 9.5 to 1 for boost application.
So what size push rides did you use for your project there?
You said the 2003 pistons were different. What would be your guess on CR in a 2005 block, Eagle heads, 2003 pistons? Stock head gaskets?
Im a master engine builder. Forced induction and high compression only work on alcohol cars or e85
Bloodviking
Run e85 and methanol injection and you should be able to control some of the detonation
I did think about switching to E85, but I have to say, I'm kind of morbidly interested to see what happens to this engine with boost and 11.8:1 😂
@@ReignitedAuto the block in this video was Boost+ 12.5 to 1, that block saw between 950-1000 hp with a stock cast crank, stock main caps and OEM main bolts...Not my choice ,customer wanted to see how much HP we could make on the stock crank....Rods were Manley 300M and pistons were Dimond(I think, it's been awhile.) twin 88mm turbos , truck was running 9.70s at 145MPH weighing in at 4450/4500lbs ua-cam.com/video/qrhSiNPqajk/v-deo.html
How about porting factory non eagle heads? Any advantages or gains I should expect? 2005 ram rumble bee!
Where'd you find the information that in 2005 the 5.7 hemi in the cars were bumped to 10.5? Everything I'm finding says it's still 9.6:1
I'm a dodge tech so the info comes directly from Chrysler service information. 👍
@@ReignitedAuto I just wasn't sure and I was trying to find it for myself. Whenever I look anything up for 2005 it obviously says 9.6 and the same 345 horsepower and 390ish torque. For 2009 it says 10.5 compression, about 370ish horsepower and about the same torque. It's a little confusing lol
@@jerodwolford2743 you're absolutely right that it is confusing 😄. Even the info we get from Chrysler isn't always 100% accurate so who knows if its truly correct.
@@ReignitedAuto eh, still plan to put one in my dakota 😂. There are ways to test it but I don't know those ways and I don't have an engine to test it on lol. Looking for the twin charge build man
What length pushrod is needed for this head swap using the cosmetic gaskets
Where are you getting that in 2005 they updated compression to 10.5:1 everything on the internet says the 5.7 was 9.6:1 2003-8
So 2005 up has 10.5 CR? I tought all 03-08 are same 9.6 CR. Many VAG, BMW etc turbo engines has around 9.5-10 CR ratio. Im not fan of thicker headgasket or spacer, because losing quench area. What i think is important to avoid detonation etc problems on SC engines.
I am pretty sure all pre eagle have 9.6:1 also.
@@captainboose8788 Ok so we got new question, is it or not :)
you can have the heads combustion chamber milled and ported and that would also lower the compression ratio. Ive never seen that done though i would be interested in if that actually would work.
@@DRAXpromo Yeah, the extra material would need to be ported out from the combustion chambers, but that could be a pretty involved job
Would I be able to put eagle heads from a a charger or challenger onto my pre eagle ram engine?
What about the 03 engines with the 9.6 pistons and the eagle heads?
Sounds like it’s time for E85
Good stuff, but like others have said, pretty sure all Pre Eagles are 9.6 Comp, as for your build being FI, I would forsure go with the Eagle heads and Eagle pistons, in an NA application the stock Pre Eagle pistons would be perfect, but Lower comp is the way to go with FI 👍
I've triple checked it using various vehicles through my Chrysler service information and all Hemi engines 05+ list the CR at 10.5:1, regardless though, ask my math was done using piston volume, combustion chamber volume, cylinder volume, ect... So the math should be fairly close. Agreed that the eagle pistons would be a better choice, but I'm kind of morbidly interested in how this engine will last in its current form. Maybe not long, but at least I'll have good data for you guys 👍
@@ReignitedAuto I could be wrong about this, but don't all Pre Eagles have the +9cc dome pistons, 0.028 gaskets, and the 85cc Heads? What changed in 2005+ to raise the compression that much?
@@captainboose8788 I belive it has to do with the MDS system because after 2005 they started putting the MDS system in the engines to make the EPA happy.
@@captainboose8788 I don't know because I don't have a pre 05 engine in my shop to compare, but that's what Chrysler service info is telling me. Even they aren't always 100% accurate though 😄
@@ReignitedAuto Haha, yep, would be neat to be able to compare them all back to back, but yeah, unless they changed the pistons to higher compression pistons in 2005, they all should be about 9.628:1 according to my math (which could be off also lol)
When you buy a head gasket are you buying it for the eagle or pre eagle variety
.070 head gasket*
they are exactly the same when I compared my 2006 one to the 2014 one I ordered
Question: I put eagle heads on my 2007 ram 1500. There is a ground strap that runs from the firewall on the passenger side to the back of the pre-eagle heads. There are no tapped holes on the back of the eagle heads. Where should I hook the ground strap?
Can you give more details on what block this is? And what year it is? I'm not familiar with a 5.7L non Hemi block.
The only 5.7 there is that isn't a hemi is a chevy
@daedae1342 not true. The first "B" Chrysler engine was 350 cu in. With two four barrels
Stacking gaskets would most definitely screw up torque specs. Im not sure about that but im about to oook into getting pre eagle pistons. What gains may that yeild N/A?
Dude you are smart!
How are you going to eat up 0.07 extra length in the valve train?
I would like to see the real difference of the heads with numbers valves, runers etc
do you mean flow #s, valve sizes ?
@@rickgehring7507 yeah, valve sizes, cc of chamber, cc of runners etc
@@HDUG7up 03-08 , Chambers are 84/85ish, fairly consistent, Intake valve is 2.0 ,Runner is 160/162cc, Exhaust valve is ungodly small @1.55 and Runner is 56CC, Intake flow is between(.300-.650lift) 240-265CFM@ 28in, 09 heads Chambers are listed as 65,I've measured as big as 67 and as small as 64,Intake valve is 2.05, runner is 184/186 ,Exhaust valve is 1.57 and runner is 80cc, Both heads the biggest low buck gain is Exhaust valve, both respond well to 1.625 valve, the 03-08 if you reshape them similar Brodix SBM head's D shape.....It opens up a great new world, the 09 heads just need some smoothing on the Exhaust side, the Eagle head can take up to a 2.165 size Intake while the 03-08 is limited to 2.125 size.....PIE(www.performanceinjectionequipment.com/ ) has the best flowing 03-08 head they will hit 340CFM @.650 lift. both heads have their respective advantages.
@@rickgehring7507 thanks a lot br
@@HDUG7up Not a problem.
Can you answer me 6.4 heads fit on 5.7 2015?😊
So I'm getting ready to powder coat my 5.7 Eagle hemi Intake Manifold I've already attempted to remove it however there's a rubber hose in the very back, I couldn't get this off. If you could point me in the direction to get it disconnected properly to make this process smooth that would be great.
This hose is the vacuum line to the brake booster, the best way to break it free is to twist the hose using a pair of pliers right where it connects to the intake manifold until it spins freely, then pull the hose off. My one caution is don't squeeze the hose too hard or you might break the plastic nipple it attaches to.
The slick "no pun intended" 😂😂😂
Is there any differences with the eagle heads between the the different models, like grand Cherokee/Durango 5.7 and the ram 5.7?
Not to my knowledge no. I know the 6.4 heads are a slightly different casting, but I believe the 5.7 heads are all the same.
@@ReignitedAuto awesome. You da bomb. Thanks
Does anyone run water/methanol inection anymore? Years ago a friend of mine had a built C6 Vette with 12.5 compression and many other mods. He had a tank he filled with rubbing alcohol and water, and it was injected into the air intake tube before the throttle body. This allowed him to run a pretty wild tune on 91 octane pump gas without detonation. I haven't seen anyone using that method since then, and that was 10 years ago
Will the ring land on the Pre-eagle pistons be able to handle compression that high with boost? I’ve always heard that they are the weak point in regards to boost. Thank you!
Ayo I’ve got that setup could you help me with tuning?
So…Everyone has talked about this swap. Yet, no one has ever done it?
Hey I'm actually building a 2006 charger rt with pre eagle block with eagle truck heads I put everything together having issues with head gaskets an a bent push rod I have a few questions
Warped heads can cause head gasket issues. Only one thing causes bent pushrods: piston to valve contact. Which means your engine is out of time
12:1 compression ratio on cheap pump gas with that head gasket mod for the non eagle pistons safe on a charger 5.7L?
Where do you recommend to buy a new cylinder head for a 2015 ram 1500? I just can’t find any luck in sourcing one without it being warped past spec.
Grow switchgrass, run pure ethanol!
Missed a few steps in between lol
Ferment switchgrass,
Distill switchgrass,
Avoid ATF (or file for volume production) 🤣
Long term plan for my 392 is building a 13:1 CR stroker. Though I'm curious what CR you could achieve using a 392 crank in the hellcat 🤔
Just buy the right pistons, ya put those thicker gaskets on, Its gonna change the preload on your lifters because the pushrods are too short. If ya gonna go boosted why mess with the factory Cast pistons , also if you put eagle piston and rod assemblies there is a 1 oz differnce on the weight so you need to properly have the whole rotating assembly balanced.
Many people were steered wrong by this guy
Has anyone done a high compression N/A build on a pre-eagle 5.7 with eagle heads???
I wouldn't be afraid to run 11.8 to 1 on a forced induction engine. But I am afraid to run boost on an engine with a .070 thick head gasket. That's an awful wide gasket to try and resist the added pressure of the blower in my opinion.
But the 09 up intakes don't fit the pre VVT blocks. They require a spacer to clear the front hump of the block, it hits the runners of the intake Very annoying
Very interesting, I'm going to check this tomorrow on one of my spare engines 👍
@@ReignitedAuto please share any ideas of fitment without buying spacers thanks
@@cardinalbaycustoms2702 you can ground the intake and make it fit
What about push rod length?
Ya I mentioned in there towards the end that if you do go with the thicker head gaskets you'll need to get custom length pushrods. I believe it's available as a kit from MMX though.
6.1 Is a weird mix of eagle and pre-eagle. Mostly pre-eagle, but with port designs that match Eagle stuff, no EGR port and the lower rocker assy height, shorter valves etc.
Hey buddy. I have a 2019 Ram 1500 Rebel with 5.7 hemi and have installed a oil catch can which is collecting a fair amount of oil. Why does my hemi pass so much oil, or what is exceptable?
Can't build it, piston to valve
13.4 O_O yo. that might be a nasty build. Canadian here, i run 91 octane all the time, wonder if that'd be good enough or if you'd need the good 93 (not sure where to get that where i live) or even aviation fuel. Or just some octane booster deal. from 10.5 to 13.5? Makes me think
i think the max for 93 is 12.5:1 compression. after that you need race fuel or more alchol