There are thousands of videos of this type online. However, I have not come across any such detailed, methodical, well-explained and ultimately, well done. Thank you Sir!
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 thanks for the reply I will check it out. I had a question for a yr now.lol can ones add cells to a already made board battery to increase the range on a board? Thanks in advance buddy, new Sub here!!
Don Juan. You can add cells (18650s) in parallel. If u currently have 10s4p set up, you can make it 10s5p (you are adding ONE 18650 to each cell of your power pack). If your esc is rated for higher voltage, you can add cell in series (going from 10s4p to 12s4p). This way requires a different BMS AND CHARGER FOR YOUR WHOLE SET UP.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 do to your video I understand really good what you mean thanks, I have the hobby wing esc on the verreal f1. With standard 4ah. Battery, if I do that to this pack do I have to change the bms aswell.im sorry for so many questions but you are the most informative Person I've seen and I really appreciate the time you have taken to teach me. Be blessed bro.....
36, 37 are all 42V BMS. Manufacturers use nominal charge of li-ion cell (3.6V or 3.7V) to rated their products. 3.6V x 10 cells=36V when battery pack is not charged. When its charged, it becomes 42V. Did you get all that? When buying a charger, make sure your charger outputs 42V, not 36V.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 awesome thanks Yeah I got it :) Just wanted to make sure as I got the same BMS as you and was abit worried that it said 36v haha Thanks I'll be uploading my build once it's done
Though I couldn't clearly get the nickel strip connections & final connection to the main +ve & -ve ... Your chart explanation were amazing. Such a detailed video. Thank you so much :) Sir ..(1) Incase I'm opting for a Balance charger ...I would like to know.. does BMS takes care of only charging or does it also takes care of the discharge ?! ..(2) Do we need to use a heat reduction fibre around the batteries ? (3) How to choose between Xt 60 or Xt 90 plugs for charging ?..say for a 12S4P config..would it require a Xt 60 or Xt90 plugs ?. (4) Sir , how do we decide upon 4 batteries as +ve & 4 more as -ve pairs..can it be just two batteries ? how many as a +ve or -ve pair , to decide if we are using a Samsung 21700 batteries for a 12S4P config...I'm a amateur in terms of skating or building electric skateboard stuff.. Hence so many questions. Kindly forgive if it is too much to ask. Thank you so much once again :) Great Video Sir :)
Hi Krishnan, Let's address your questions: 1. Main reason to use BMS is to balance charge. You can discharge through BMS also, but I don't use this feature of BMS because discharge rating of BMS (amp) is usually pretty low, which will cause you to loose power to ESC every time you exceed BMS Amp Limit. All ESCs are either pre-programmed or programmable (You can set Amp and Voltage limits). ESC does a way better job at governing Amps and Voltage than a cheap BMS. 2. No need for heat insulation fabric. Your power pack will not get too hot if designed properly. 3. For charging, either XT60 or XT90 are fine. Personal preference. Where it matters is on discharge side (battery to ESC). XT60 has a LOWER AMP rating than XT90. 4. There is no way for me to give you an easy answer for number four. Do your own math and solve this problem backwards. Here is an example: You have two motors that you want to use. Motors are rated for 12s (50.4V), and 60amp Max per motor. Your goal is to build a board that can maximize the entire resource of the motors. Step One: get ESC that matches the output of your motors: (12S Max, and 120A -> 60a per motor). Step Two: buy or build a battery pack that 12s and that is capable of doing 120a 12S-How may cells in series are in your pack (this determines voltage) 4P-How many 18650s or equivalent are in parallel in each cell. (This determines Max Amp Discharge, and storage capacity in Amp Hours) Your (P) number will determine how many 18650 you need per cell to meet your demands. For our example, we are building 50 V (which is 12s), and 120a (Each cell of the Pack need to be able to produce 120a). If you use SonyVCT6 18650 (to make your cells) which are rated at 30A per 18650, you will need the following: 120a(target AMP)/30a(rating of 18650)=4 4 For the above example, you will need 4 18650s per cell, there are 12 cells. Total 18650s needed is: 12 x 4 = 48 48 18650 are needed to build your battery pack. Get your desired component list. Find out limits and specifications of your electrical components. Make sure it all is compatible. Order parts, complete your build. Easy, right! I just summarized the video for you. If you haven't subscribe, please do. If you have more questions, try checking the vid out a bit more. Some of the questions you asked are right in the video I started 2 years ago and only used internet to learn. It takes time, so have patience.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 Thank you so much Sir 🙂 I've subscribed to your channel 🙏 I've to watch it more number of times to understand this stuff. I find the math to be little complicated . But I'm sure I can understand it overtime 😀
You are welcome. I've added to this design to make battery more flexible. Nickel segment that connects one cell to another in series was replaced with 12ga wire (which can flex really well). I have a 12s6p video on my channel where I use wire for series connection if you want to check that out. Hope that helps.
hello, I have a question to your calculation, you calculate 4 batteries in parallel can add 100Amps, but your bms has discharge rate only 18Amps not 100Amps , than you are limited by bms and you can only take 42V -18 Amps , you should devide your battery to 2x 10s2p with separeted 2x bms and then conncet them parallel (mabe with diode for secure) and you get 42V - 36Amps , I´m I thinking correct?
BMS in this case is only used for balance charging. My battery is hooked up directly into esc. This esc pulls 60a @ 42v. Esc has low voltage cut off set at 30V. Discharging through bms in this case is not necessary. If bms discharge is what you want to do, i would get a bms that can do 60a continuous discharge.
This one is not bad for the price. www.amazon.com/s?k=50.4v+charger&crid=30I8N84SZC5A0&sprefix=50.4%2Caps%2C166&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_4 This one is more expensive, but charges about 3 times faster. www.amazon.com/50-4V-Charger-Li-ion-Battery-Auto-Stop/dp/B0751FQKTW/ref=sr_1_4?crid=30I8N84SZC5A0&dchild=1&keywords=50.4v+charger&qid=1586357771&sprefix=50.4%2Caps%2C166&sr=8-4
Artsiom Naidzich this one? www.amazon.com/Charger-Battery-LiMn2O4-Certification-50-4V4A/dp/B07T54J61Q/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=50.4v+charger&qid=1586358746&sr=8-1
Good video but you are using the term "battery" and "cell" backwards. Batteries are made of cells. An Individual 18650 is a cell. Multiple cells wired together make a battery. How do you like your spot welder? I'm in the market for one and I'm trying to decide on which one to buy or make.
Noted. Thanks. The sport welder I use works great. It was one of the cheaper ones on amazon. In this battery I referred to a cell as a run of four 18650s in parallel (I had ten runs of four in parallel to make it a ten cell battery).
Learnt alot from this but I must comment to noobs that the nickle strip is prob 0.1 thick because that spot welder according to my research can only do up to 0.15 thick. Even at 0.15 it would take prob at least 10 strips to cover 4 batteries at total of 80 amp. I might be wrong but spot welding on this cheap is not possible. It's better to do soldering with 0.3 8mm thick pure nickel strip as each strip would cover at least 30 amp so with 3 layers would cover 80 amp easy. Not sure about nickel plated but using 4 layers is probably good enough. I am a beginners but this is my research. Or you can do what he did later and used both spot welding on nickel strip and solder 1 gauge wire to increase to 100amp. However a good soldering iron like TS100 is needed to quickly melt the solder without damaging the 18650. Get some goggles too.
Yo. I hear you. Ive seen the nickel charts quoted up and down various forums. The nickel charts you are referring to are useless. They were made for solar panels and do not account for length of nickel. Today, i use one layer of nickel with 10 or 12 ga wire soldered to the top of nickel. Check any of my recent battery build videos.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 ua-cam.com/video/wdZ_Ca_sAZE/v-deo.html In this video he's referring to applying nickel strip on battery on a ebike. TLDR: bridging use less strip while accomplishing this same task. I plan to do bridge on a 6S3P by folding on the bridge. Cross my fingers.
Davide Maria hey Davide. If ur battery is 42V (10s), both motors are getting 42v. When i purchased esc on ebay, i had to specify voltage. There were 3 options 6s, 7s, and 10s (25.2V, 29.4V, 42V). The esc in the video is dual motor. Yes, two motors are ok. Its an easy esc to use and set up. It works with most of the common motors for esk8. Its not the best quality esc, but its great for overall ordinary use. I have used it with 6374, 6354, and 5055 brushless motors)
Why did you use 40A BMS while your battery supplies at least 60A? Does this set up works correctly and not overheat? I want to use the same battery (10s4p) but draw 80A, can I also use this BMS? Or should I go with an expensive 100A one?
Hi Cruz. I got cells on aliexpress. For me they have been working as advertised. Ive build a handful of batteries using HG2 cells and so far no issues. If you do use them, make sure you charge them fully as soon as they come in. www.aliexpress.com/item/100-New-Original-HG2-18650-3000mAh-battery-18650HG2-3-6V-discharge-20A-dedicated-For-LG-Electronic/32868746648.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.1.201ebafbctVEHn&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10065_10068_10130_10890_10547_319_10546_317_10548_5730311_10545_10696_453_10084_454_10083_5729211_10618_10307_538_537_536_10059_10884_10887_100031_321_322_10103-5729211,searchweb201603_51,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=7566e5e0-f15d-46bc-8681-d75ca4e8b574-0&algo_pvid=7566e5e0-f15d-46bc-8681-d75ca4e8b574
Hey I finished this battery and before I charged it my volts were 28v and when I plugged it in to the charger it went down to 8v and isn’t coming up and my balance changer also won’t connect to it. Do you have any idea what’s wrong with it or if it’s fixable
Cheas Moon Hi chase. Is it 7s battery? It sounds like you may have a dead cell or problem with bms or problem with series connection. Here is my troubleshooting suggestion: 1. Access the balance cable. 2. Using a voltmeter, keep one probe on battery neg, other probe (+) checks each cable in the balance cable (there should be small metal surfaces you can check on balance cable) 3. Each cell should have equal voltage. If one cell is bad, you should be able to find it.
Artsiom Naidzich i got a electrician to look at it and he said I used the wrong kind of charger and that’s what killed it I need new battery’s now all mine are now at 0v or 0.01v
ProgressiveRC iCharger 1010B+ www.amazon.com/dp/B005X0470G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_kPa.Cb4JTQZKY This is the one I use. Have not tried any other ones. Icharger1010b+ has been excellent. Its not the easiest to use, but once u get used to it, it is awesome and versatile .
Thanks! Here is a rough cost breakdown: 18650 cells: 40 @ $3.00 = 120 BMS: $20.00 Connectors/Shrink Wrap/Tape/nickel strip (if you got nothing to start out with): $30 About $170 total. I got 18 miles on this pack today (I only babied throttle last few miles). This is the set up I had: 42V 60A ESC (30A per motor), 90mm wheels, dual 5055 motors, KV 270. The board is fast and fun to ride. It gets up to 30 mph.
Here is the link: www.aliexpress.com/item/100-New-Original-HG2-18650-3000mAh-battery-18650HG2-3-6V-discharge-20A-dedicated-For-LG-Electronic/32868746648.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.1.201ebafbctVEHn&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10065_10068_10130_10890_10547_319_10546_317_10548_5730311_10545_10696_453_10084_454_10083_5729211_10618_10307_538_537_536_10059_10884_10887_100031_321_322_10103-5729211,searchweb201603_51,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=7566e5e0-f15d-46bc-8681-d75ca4e8b574-0&algo_pvid=7566e5e0-f15d-46bc-8681-d75ca4e8b574
That esc is garbage, throttles 30a per channel, get a vesc and its derivatives. Don't get liitokala cells, they're garbage and have wildly varying internal resistance, meaning they'll fall out of balance quickly. Save a few bucks now, it'll lead to problems later or even having to replace completely. ESC = electronic speed controllers, not engine
It is bad BMS. Look at this (22:40). There is no one transistor on the right, although the sellers have it in the photo. One cell will not balance. Himself because of this refused this BMS.
Yo Paul. I dont have a website and i operate on word of mouth basis. I could help you out if you are in a pinch and need a power pack. DM me through FB messenger. My FB name is same as here, which is my real name.
I really want to build one my self after watching your great and detailed tutorials, thank you very much for all the great content your putting out, you are very talented. I just wanted a back up plan in case I got stuck. Thank you for the fast reply.
oh man, your video make me learn how to make that battery especially that BMS, searching here and there for better BMS and no luck, this quarantine make everything like (super) rare stuff the only available one is same as yours and I keep thinking how can I make it work, my battery discharge is atleast 60a and that BMS is for 40a and your video save me, I can just direct the output from battery instead of using the BMS and what about the discharge safety? will it imbalance the cell? YES it will but I can just balance charge them, easy, but there will be no protection for overdischarge? well technically the esc will cut off if the power is below 36v (or 30v well idk yet complete noob here) that mean every cell will be around 3.6v and lowest for 18650 is 3.0 so it will be save (probably) but I still have question I dont have charger for 36v or 10s but I do have balance charger (ISDT Q6 pro) for 24v or 6s for my fpv drone stuff if I make 2 pcs of 5s 18560 and use parallel on the esc will it work the same way and the one you made (10s)? could I make 5s 18650 without BMS and charge them with my balance charger as 5S? I want to save money as much as possible for my first electric board so I can build my second as a BEAST thanks in advance and keep upload new content (ignore trash talk comment if they dont like your stuff they should just make with anything that suit their taste)
Chandra Suryanto. If you use BMS, you don’t need to use a balance charger. For about $18, you can buy a 10 S or 42 V charger. Everything you summarized is correct. BMS will balance the cells, and motor controller will shut itself off when total voltage is less than 30v.
I have switched from doing multiple layers of nickel to one layer of nickel with copper wire over the top. This method allows for a flex in the battery. ua-cam.com/video/WfH8vCWobHI/v-deo.html
ELLIOTT MORIARTY Good question. I don’t know where. Aliexpress has the biggest selection of bms options. I use bms for charging/balance since most ESCs have a programable low voltage cut off. I can help you look. What voltage and amperage are you looking for?
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 It would be for a 12S battery pack with 4.2V each cell and really unlimited amps. However, your video made me think that I don't mind spending $200 or more on a good quality charger that can balance charge my pack if I made one without a BMS. Also, the BMS takes care of the charging part; not the discharge part while using the eboard?
@@WORLD-OF-MERLIN Hobby balance charger I show in this video is Icharger1010B+. It is an awesome charger with one major limitation, it only balances 10 cells Li-Ion, 42V. I have not found a reliable Balance charger for 12 Cell System. I have been using medium grade BMS protection boards on 12S packs. BMS has three functions: 1. Balance Cells During Charging Process. 2. Stopping charge cycle if any cell exceeds 4.2V. 3. Battery discharge through BMS with a specific amperage and low voltage cut off. The more amperage that BMS is rated for, the more expensive it is. Most of your dual motor esk8s set ups will required current in 100a ballpark if you choose do discharge through bms. However, you can discharge your battery pack through a direct connection to ESC (bypassing bms). This ensures that you get all of your battery potential delivered directly to ESC. Running high amps through bms can result in bms overheating and shutting down current flow to ESC. Also, most ESCs have a progammable low voltage cut off to prevent overdischarge of battery pack. Bottom line, you can safely use BMS for balance charge (most of bms have similar balance charging specs). To save you some $ and get most power out of your battery pack, direct connection from battery pack to esc is what I recommend. To prevent overdischarge, program your ESC to turn off at a certain voltage.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 Thanks for the thorough response. I've done a bypass of the discharge for a BMS and know that the BMS will take care of the balance charge, but wasn't sure about doing away completely with the BMS, but thanks to you now I know that I can find a good balance charger from Canada for about $300-$400 that will go up to 14 or more cells (it's used for ebikes also) and I have been programming my VESC to cut offs properly. So, I've got both ends covered without a BMS. Thanks, much appreciated for the confirmation; it was swirling around my mind, but wasn't 100% sure, but now I am.... Also, if your spot welder goes bad; then I recommend using a German made one (more expensive, but worth it), www.keenlab.de/index.php/product/kweld-complete-kit/ Here is the programmable charger: www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/chargers/satiator-high-voltage-model-5a-max.html
I do have a question if you can please help me or correct me. So I’m building a e-skate board. And my ? Is, if I pair batteries the amps go up, as well with the mAH, but the voltage does not, unless it’s in series. So if I were to buy a 6374 motor with a capacity of 80 max amps, That means The motor does not exceed 80 amps. But I would need 4 battery’s in pairs to get the 100 amps? Or would that be too much power since the motor tops at 80 amps. Or can I just buy a 10s2p battery pack and use that one? But the would mean it can only provide 50 amps, so that also means I wouldn’t be able to use those 80 amps? Right?
What's Up Miguel. Motor rating (amps) is just that. It means that your motor would be safe to operate at up to 80a at whatever voltage the motor is rated for. Motor is just one component. Your second component is your esc/vesc. Third component is battery pack. In order to build an efficient skateboard, those three components have to match (Especially battery and ESC). In order for you to maximize the power of your motor, your esc and battery need to provide sufficient power. Here is what I would do: 10s4p or 12s4p battery (42V or 50V, depends on what your motor and esc are rated at. The higher the voltage, the more powerful/efficient motor is). Make sure your ESC can handle 80a. If your esc is a vesc, tune your vesc not to exceed max amp and voltage limits. If you are using unbranded e-bay esc, they are set at 30a per motor @ 42V. What is the esc you are using? Is it a dual or single motor set Up? I advise against 10s2p unless you are a very light person and never ride uphil. With 2P set up (depending on how many amps you draw) you are more likely to push your battery pack to its limits every time you ride. This will shorten the life span of your battery pack and will make riding around less enjoyable.
Artsiom Naidzich first of all thanks for taking to your time to reply. I’ve been searching all over for help. But I’m planning on using a vest for 1 motor. I forgot to ask that the amps go up by the pairs and not by the series? So If I were to have a battery with a 25 amp consistency, and If pair 2 it goes to 50 amps. So if I make 10s4p battery pack it would be 100 amps batter pack, because it comes in pairs of 4? and not 1000amps? Because we don’t multiply 100amps times 10 cells ?
Miguel Angel Figueroa Rivera when you stack 18650 in parallel, you add mAh (capacity). When you stack 18650 in series, you add voltage. Think of amps as gasoline (liters/km or gal/mile). The bigger the motor, more amps it will pull out of the gas tank (battery). Battery needs to be able to supply what motor needs. ESC is the gatekeeper between battery and motor. If esc can only do 50a per motor (most of the modern vescs are rated at 50a or 60a max)., than your motor is getting 50a. If you have 2 motors, your esc is letting 100a through (50a per motor). Point is, you can build a 10s4p pack (lets say 42v 100a, 12000mah). If your esc for single motor is rated for 50a, 50a is what motor is getting). Power produced by motor is measured in watts. WAtt=volts x amps. In order to increase motor power, you either increase V, or Amps, or both. Hope it helps Pack examples (s-series, p-parallel) 1s1p 4.2v 3000mah 20a 1s2p 4.2v 6000mah 40a 1s3p 4.2v 9000mah 60a 2s1p 8.4v 3000mah 20a 2s2p 8.4v 6000mah 40a 2s3p 8.4v 9000mah 60a
10S4P Pack. 4P means you have 4 18650s connected in parallel per cell (or on cell is made of 4 li-ion batteries). 10s mean that you have 10 cells connected in series.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 on the Eskate i want to modify i have 7 cell 18650 Battery.BMS have only 3 wires ,Battery pack is 3S2P and one is alone … outside Voltage BMS only 19.5V . i order a new BMS with 7 wires to each cells ..it seems to be an error as one wire BMS is for 2 Cell in my configuration ? and one wire for the cell alone ?
Hi Brendon. Thanks. Spot welder that I use may me a discontinued model. I cannot find exactly the same one on either amazon or ebay. Its a sunko brand welder. there are a bunch of similar sunko welders out there though.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 thanks for the reply. I think i will be copying your battery but maybe with Samsung 30q cell. Hopefully i dont burn the house down.
brendon coad ha, nice! Good luck. This design have not failed me yet. I have gotten some input from other battery builders. To make you power pack run even better and add a degree of safety, add insulation rings on positive terminals. I started using copper wire with less nickel for series connection. Check out nighthawk vid on my channel if you want to see what im talking about.
Question? Would your battery get a better range by discharging through bms?? Assuming we are using the correct output amp for a bms that the battery will be producing???
No. Best range through discharge is direct to esc. I dont know of many ESC that dont cut off automatically at certain voltage (or that you cannot program to cut off). Think of BMS as a small resistor or a block on the way to the ESC. Most BMS circuits that support the amp needs for esk8 are very expensive. I've always only used BMS for balance charging only.
Okay thank you. I was just curious because after riding my e board and the esc shut off at around 30v. I was curious as to what voltage each individual cells voltage was at. So I took heatshrink off my battery and tested each cell through bms and found that each cell didn’t all have the exact voltage. It was off by just a bit. So I was just curious if the discharge was direct from bms if it would discharge more evenly on the battery.
Gustavo Raya during discharge, bms does not balance anything. You will always have slight differences in cell voltage. Bms should balance it out after some time.
You have no flexibility in that nickel strip yet you're strapping it to a flexible skateboard? This is a fire waiting to happen I'm afraid. Series joins for electric skateboard batteries need to be done with at least 10awg wire or flat copper braid to allow the battery pack to flex with the deck. See my channel for how to do this correctly.
darkkevind cool. Thanks. Ive been doing wire for series for a bit now. At least 10 awg? Thats overkill. I go 12awg on mine. Im still using this pack, no fires yet.
@@mta3562, with HG3 cells i had a mostly good xp. They are def not what they are advertised to be. They claim 3000mah and 20 or sometimes 30a per cell. Realistically, its about 2200mah per cell, and prob around 10 to 15a of continues discharge (it can do short bursts of 20a). Pretty much u got to build ur battery bigger with LK cells if u want ur power pack to, you know, be powerful.
Artsiom Naidzich thanks for the insight info. I have everything I need for the DIY mountain board except for the battery. I would like to build my own battery later on as I have to get all the equipments that you were using.
Abz Khan , its unbranded model i get from ebay. It is dual motor. Here is the link: www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-motors-longboard-skateboard-control-modula-ESC-Substitute-with-remote/323326552273?hash=item4b47c3a8d1:m:mxSlsLM_-dEIr0XuDFII9Lg
If the battery are not at the same voltage it dangerous for the battery assembly or not? example if for a 10s4p i have a group of 4battery at the same voltage and another group with another voltage its a problem? thanks for your video bay the way
theliryx yes, this would be a problem. Think of voltage as pressure. Electrons will move from high voltage cell to low voltage cell (if connected in parallel). If you connect bunch of cells with different voltage in series, your battery balancer will work extra hard to balance all cells (it may potentially damage ur bms. In summary: A). Never connect different voltages in parallel B). Avoid connecting different voltage cells in series ( up to 0.15V difference is ok: give or take some) Charge all cells to max capacity 4.2v before connecting to avoid shorting/balancing issues.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 Thanks for your answer ! And i work with NCR18650B battery but when i charge a cell to 4.2v the voltage increase by himself after the charge (4.30v to 4.54v max )and decrease to a normal voltage (4.10v to 4.16) its normal or not ! this NCR18650B are normally a good one so i dont know why the voltage increase by himself !
theliryx what are u using to charge them? Its panasonic cell, right? Going over 4.2v is not normal in my experience. Check voltage on your charger. If you are using multiple cells in series and charging them together, are you using a balance charger or bms? Overcharging can damage ur cells (best case), or battery will catch on fire (worst case).
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 I have a intelligent charger "golisi " but i have to notice he has a difference between the voltage on a charger and my multimeter so when on the charger the cell is 4.2v its not really at this voltage but over 4.2v ! ( so this charger its not great ) But what i dont understand its why the voltage of the cell increase by himself when i receive these cells they are at 3.7 to 3.8v and 1day after the voltage arrived to 4v without charge... Yes its panasonic cell! I would like to do a 10s5p battery i have the basic in electricity but there are some things i can do wrong so i prefer to not run this project so fast and do this well so i dont assemble these battery yet but yes i will using a 10s bms ! I know these cells can be dangerous so i preferred to ask some he know better than me ! (I m french so sorry if my english its not correct )
theliryx look up data sheet on ur ncr cell. Typically it should say what max voltage tolerance is. Example: max 4.2V +/- .05v. Cells sometimes do rebound voltage, but going from 3.6 to 4 without charge is not normal. U may have a bad cell. Cell may have physical damage. Do you know if your cells are genuine or possibly a fake (some fake are ok). Also, try using a different charger and voltmeter to test them out. After testing ur cells with different equipment, you will be able to identify what the problem is: cells, charger, voltmeter, or charging process. Do all of ur cells do that, or just some?
would this process work with Samsung 40T 21700 4000mAh 30A? I don't have a deathwish on future all-terrain board, I'm just wanting more range and uphill torque.
Damon Thomas yes, it would. I would go heavier on nickel strips, or add 12ga wire to ur series connection. U can check out 12s6p battery pack vid on my channel to see what im talking about.
I have not looked for one. My guess is: if you do find a quality 10s8p for sale, it will be expensive. If you make one yourself, it's going to be $300 to $400 dollars, depending on what type 18650/bms/nickel/siliconeWire/etc you will get.
Psrj1748-2446ad if you can fit it, why not? I would say it’s definitely not excessive if you want to ride longer. I saw a new board with a 12s12p battery. Like 50 mile range
@@enjoyesk8978 It's not impossible, It's just impractical. I got a 12s6p that I build for my all terrain board (Video Link Below). It has 20+mile range of aggressive riding, or 30+ of mild riding. The longest single continuous ride I've been on is 20 miles. 20 miles is enough to wear me out. If you want a 12s12p, send it! I'll help you build it! ua-cam.com/video/nrvnTaA1E4Q/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/lY_sapLZjbQ/v-deo.html
Artsiom Naidzich the original question was if a 10s8p was excessive. I also think it’s not necessary but if you have the money and space to fit it, why not have an ability to go a further distance. The cells are getting better so even a 10s4p or 10s5p is plenty sufficient imo.
Artsiom Naidzich also I appreciate the offer but I’ve built a few packs myself and have saved a lot of $. I doubt I’ll need a pack that big for a skateboard. Maybe for a future project. I want to do a drift trike. Thanks for the videos man!
Braham Young ive never looked for one. What does this circuit board do? There are a bunch of one wheel forums. Have you looked there? How about electric skateboard builders website/forum?
gijs volker thanks. They are fake. But a decent fake. I do get 3000 mah out of them. Amperage is not what they advertise. Do you have a suggestion where to buy non fake cells? Im in US.
gijs volker I got a 12s4p made out of this litokala cells hooked up to focbox unity. I have it set to 50a per motor, 100a total. On acceleration, HUD app shows 100a of current. I think this fakes a capable of 20a+ per 18650 (just not for the continues discharge).
Fake hg2s and crappy chinese esc good luck it wont last. Check you cells after 20 cycles. Bet your not getting close to 3000mah anymore and a shity bms this is a perfect example of not what to do. Litokala LG = Fake, nickel plate steel strips, shitty vesc, no isolation rings on battery. Worst battery build ever, shitty bms that will discharge your pack and end up killing it when not used. Epic Fail
I respectfully disagree with almost everything you said my friend. You are one of them keyboard warriors esc/battery/bms/nickel experts. Great to hear your input dingus. I guess you have done some skateboard forum browsing. People love hating on other people's work over there. My guess is that you have not done much esk8 builds yourself. One thing you did mention that I have changed since this vid, is insulation rings. With that said, I've never had a battery problem due to original cell insulation failing. BMS is shitty you say? (you did say it twice). Maybe you did not connect it right? I estimate about ten 10s packs that I have personally build with this BMS. BMS has failed me zero times. You may just have bad luck. Steel nickel strip? Where are you getting that from? I'm not sure what the purity of nickel was in that particular build, but I only buy pure nickel strip (or at least it is advertised as pure nickel) I build esk8 based on people's budget. I do have two builds that I made for myself: one with dual esk8de controllers, and one with focbox unity. High end controllers are way better for sure. You are preaching to the quire, dingus. However, those cheap Chinese escs and batteries have been reliable for me so far. Outside german made esk8de vescs that are manufactured in Germany, I am not aware of many others that are not manufactured in China. The oldest esk8 build with this esc that I still ride is this one (I've had it for 9 month): ua-cam.com/video/150scB51QD8/v-deo.html The ESC and the pack are still going strong. It still hits 30mph. Pack has been through hundreds of charge cycles and still has good capacity. I did a 18 mile ride on it last month (ESC is set to cut out at 3v per cell, and it did). Battery took on over 10000mAh after cutting out at 3v. I have personally used and have friends that use this batteries and escs. None have issues that you have described. Do you have personal experience with all the shit you talked about or you just read about it on electric skateboard builders forum? If so, please send me a link to it. I'll be happy to share my opinion with you, my dingus friend! Like and Subscribe! Here is a link of german esk8De controllers and fake chinese hg2 12s6p pack doing work. ua-cam.com/video/k2zYR2SeJew/v-deo.html
Do not build a esk8 battery like this if you dont want a fire. Each p group needs to be insulated from the others with adhesive fish paper. Also fishpaper rings on all the positive ends. Also round the ends of all nickel strip..dont cut it straight with sharp edges. This battery must flex and do this by using flexible wire or 1/2" copper braid between p groups and series connections. This video has some good info and some very bad tecniques mixed in that will end in a burnt down house , car, or board and the bad thing is you won't know when your lithium fire will start or how it will end. Also remember two nickel strips @ .15 doesnt =.3 for amperage. Your series connections must carry the amperage of the whole pack so do it well and solder from the middle of the p group's nickel and not from the ends. All I can say is this video is bad info and dont build it like this. Go to esk8.news and ask your questions in the battery forum. These guy will show you charts and show you how to build a safe battery that will last.
Brent, how nice of you to chime in. Every pack can be build safer and better. I follow the same forums and more that you speak of. This is one of the earlier packs ive built. Every point you bring up has been brought up already in this message group. How many variations of power packs have you personally built? Im in 40+ at this point with no shorts or fires. The nickel strip charts are made for solar panels, where amperage is carried for a long distance, hence the values u get. If you follow ur own safety standard, you will end up with battery thats mostly made up of nickel strip. Ive also never had a factory insulation ring fail. As for rounding nickel strip, sure thats what someone wrote on on of the esk forums, and people jumped on a bandwagon. As long as cut strip to size and properly spot weld the ends, I don't think that step is necessary.Open up some of the commercial packs and see if they round the corners. Insulating each p series for added safety, sure why not. Again, never had a problem with just using hot glue. I do encourage people to do as much research before they start any project. All the things you mentioned a great added safety factors. And all of those have been addressed in my recent builds on my yt channel. Point of this video is to show overall process of battery pack building, and to show how to calculate mathematically the size of the battery needed for your ESC or vesc. And this video has hit those marks. Its great that you read the forums and share your knowledge. Perhaps you should make a video of it and post it. Send me a link too! Cheers. Have a nice day.
There are thousands of videos of this type online. However, I have not come across any such detailed, methodical, well-explained and ultimately, well done. Thank you Sir!
Thanks Miso.
Most complete battery building teaching I've seen so far. Thanks for sharing so simple great job...
Thanks Man. If you need something more flexible, here is a flex version of a battery build ua-cam.com/video/WfH8vCWobHI/v-deo.html
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 thanks for the reply I will check it out. I had a question for a yr now.lol can ones add cells to a already made board battery to increase the range on a board? Thanks in advance buddy, new Sub here!!
Don Juan. You can add cells (18650s) in parallel. If u currently have 10s4p set up, you can make it 10s5p (you are adding ONE 18650 to each cell of your power pack). If your esc is rated for higher voltage, you can add cell in series (going from 10s4p to 12s4p). This way requires a different BMS AND CHARGER FOR YOUR WHOLE SET UP.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 do to your video I understand really good what you mean thanks, I have the hobby wing esc on the verreal f1. With standard 4ah. Battery, if I do that to this pack do I have to change the bms aswell.im sorry for so many questions but you are the most informative Person I've seen and I really appreciate the time you have taken to teach me. Be blessed bro.....
Video= 10/10
Explaination= 10/10
Person= 10/10
Sound quallity= 2/10
Overall awesome video and thanks for explaining stuff you got my sub and like
Thanks Bro. Yeah, sound sucked.
You should do a DIY Microphone 😂
Skater Kid, thanks. You are awesome 😮.
Soy español y agradezco tus planos y la gran explicación, por q no entiendo ni idea de inglés y ha sido “fácil” de entender. un placer ver el vídeo.
Me alegro de que haya ayudado! ¡Buena suerte en tu próxima construcción!
Thanks for this great step by step and comprehensive tutorial. Makes me want to dive in and do my own battery pack. 😄
Awesome Bart! Good luck with ur next build!
Man.....If I could find your this DIY video earlier, I wouldn't need to spend so much money on ready-made battery.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!
Laurence Long. You are welcome! There is always a next pack. I got a few 12s tutorials on my channel for when you are ready for 50V pack.
ESC is an electronic speed controller
You are right Eric F. I stand corrected. Electronic, not Engine.
Nice craftsmanship!
Thanks ManWhoLovesWomen. BadAss name you got!
Thank you for the great info, you make it so simple!
Thank you sir this was very educational and easy to understand
No problem Teddy. Thanks for checking out my vid.
Thank you very much
I learn a lot about that ...
Keep it up..
And
Tell me where you buy that battery
Nice video! thanks ! now i know understand how to build one :)
Hope it helps!
Thanks for a wonderful video
+1000 and a subscribe not because the video was dope and helpful(it was) but, because you ended the video with Deltron 3030.
mike smith l, love me some Del The Funky Homosapien.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 as do i particularly over the dope sounds of dan the automator
Really useful video but need a better audio.
abdul duriya I agree.
Very nice video,good job
Thank you very much
Me: what's u mic
You: potato🥔👌
Lauri Tervo, i like potatoes. How about them potatoes.
The BMS you use is a 36V? isnt the battery 42V?
im making a 37V can i use the 36V BMS?
36, 37 are all 42V BMS. Manufacturers use nominal charge of li-ion cell (3.6V or 3.7V) to rated their products. 3.6V x 10 cells=36V when battery pack is not charged. When its charged, it becomes 42V. Did you get all that? When buying a charger, make sure your charger outputs 42V, not 36V.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 awesome thanks
Yeah I got it :)
Just wanted to make sure as I got the same BMS as you and was abit worried that it said 36v haha
Thanks I'll be uploading my build once it's done
Great video
Thanks Delan.
Thanks!
No problem!
Though I couldn't clearly get the nickel strip connections & final connection to the main +ve & -ve ... Your chart explanation were amazing. Such a detailed video. Thank you so much :) Sir ..(1) Incase I'm opting for a Balance charger ...I would like to know.. does BMS takes care of only charging or does it also takes care of the discharge ?! ..(2) Do we need to use a heat reduction fibre around the batteries ? (3) How to choose between Xt 60 or Xt 90 plugs for charging ?..say for a 12S4P config..would it require a Xt 60 or Xt90 plugs ?. (4) Sir , how do we decide upon 4 batteries as +ve & 4 more as -ve pairs..can it be just two batteries ? how many as a +ve or -ve pair , to decide if we are using a Samsung 21700 batteries for a 12S4P config...I'm a amateur in terms of skating or building electric skateboard stuff.. Hence so many questions. Kindly forgive if it is too much to ask. Thank you so much once again :) Great Video Sir :)
Hi Krishnan, Let's address your questions:
1. Main reason to use BMS is to balance charge. You can discharge through BMS also, but I don't use this feature of BMS because discharge rating of BMS (amp) is usually pretty low, which will cause you to loose power to ESC every time you exceed BMS Amp Limit. All ESCs are either pre-programmed or programmable (You can set Amp and Voltage limits). ESC does a way better job at governing Amps and Voltage than a cheap BMS.
2. No need for heat insulation fabric. Your power pack will not get too hot if designed properly.
3. For charging, either XT60 or XT90 are fine. Personal preference. Where it matters is on discharge side (battery to ESC). XT60 has a LOWER AMP rating than XT90.
4. There is no way for me to give you an easy answer for number four. Do your own math and solve this problem backwards. Here is an example:
You have two motors that you want to use. Motors are rated for 12s (50.4V), and 60amp Max per motor. Your goal is to build a board that can maximize the entire resource of the motors.
Step One: get ESC that matches the output of your motors: (12S Max, and 120A -> 60a per motor).
Step Two: buy or build a battery pack that 12s and that is capable of doing 120a
12S-How may cells in series are in your pack (this determines voltage)
4P-How many 18650s or equivalent are in parallel in each cell. (This determines Max Amp Discharge, and storage capacity in Amp Hours)
Your (P) number will determine how many 18650 you need per cell to meet your demands.
For our example, we are building 50 V (which is 12s), and 120a (Each cell of the Pack need to be able to produce 120a). If you use SonyVCT6 18650 (to make your cells) which are rated at 30A per 18650, you will need the following:
120a(target AMP)/30a(rating of 18650)=4
4
For the above example, you will need 4 18650s per cell, there are 12 cells. Total 18650s needed is: 12 x 4 = 48
48 18650 are needed to build your battery pack.
Get your desired component list. Find out limits and specifications of your electrical components. Make sure it all is compatible. Order parts, complete your build. Easy, right!
I just summarized the video for you. If you haven't subscribe, please do. If you have more questions, try checking the vid out a bit more. Some of the questions you asked are right in the video
I started 2 years ago and only used internet to learn. It takes time, so have patience.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 Thank you so much Sir 🙂 I've subscribed to your channel 🙏 I've to watch it more number of times to understand this stuff. I find the math to be little complicated . But I'm sure I can understand it overtime 😀
Very helpful thank you bud
You are welcome. I've added to this design to make battery more flexible. Nickel segment that connects one cell to another in series was replaced with 12ga wire (which can flex really well). I have a 12s6p video on my channel where I use wire for series connection if you want to check that out. Hope that helps.
Thanks you soooo much bro. I love you!!! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
No problem.
hello, I have a question to your calculation,
you calculate 4 batteries in parallel can add 100Amps, but your bms has discharge rate only 18Amps not 100Amps , than you are limited by bms and you can only take 42V -18 Amps ,
you should devide your battery to 2x 10s2p with separeted 2x bms and then conncet them parallel (mabe with diode for secure) and you get 42V - 36Amps , I´m I thinking correct?
BMS in this case is only used for balance charging. My battery is hooked up directly into esc. This esc pulls 60a @ 42v. Esc has low voltage cut off set at 30V. Discharging through bms in this case is not necessary. If bms discharge is what you want to do, i would get a bms that can do 60a continuous discharge.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 thank you for explenation, now I understand your connection
Great video!! I would like to know which battery charger you recommend for a 12s4p.
This one is not bad for the price.
www.amazon.com/s?k=50.4v+charger&crid=30I8N84SZC5A0&sprefix=50.4%2Caps%2C166&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_4
This one is more expensive, but charges about 3 times faster.
www.amazon.com/50-4V-Charger-Li-ion-Battery-Auto-Stop/dp/B0751FQKTW/ref=sr_1_4?crid=30I8N84SZC5A0&dchild=1&keywords=50.4v+charger&qid=1586357771&sprefix=50.4%2Caps%2C166&sr=8-4
Artsiom Naidzich this one? www.amazon.com/Charger-Battery-LiMn2O4-Certification-50-4V4A/dp/B07T54J61Q/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=50.4v+charger&qid=1586358746&sr=8-1
I glued cigars on my board in the same pattern as you and it didnt work
LOL.
Good video but you are using the term "battery" and "cell" backwards. Batteries are made of cells. An Individual 18650 is a cell. Multiple cells wired together make a battery.
How do you like your spot welder? I'm in the market for one and I'm trying to decide on which one to buy or make.
Noted. Thanks. The sport welder I use works great. It was one of the cheaper ones on amazon. In this battery I referred to a cell as a run of four 18650s in parallel (I had ten runs of four in parallel to make it a ten cell battery).
Thank you
Na Zdarovie Egor.
Learnt alot from this but I must comment to noobs that the nickle strip is prob 0.1 thick because that spot welder according to my research can only do up to 0.15 thick. Even at 0.15 it would take prob at least 10 strips to cover 4 batteries at total of 80 amp. I might be wrong but spot welding on this cheap is not possible. It's better to do soldering with 0.3 8mm thick pure nickel strip as each strip would cover at least 30 amp so with 3 layers would cover 80 amp easy. Not sure about nickel plated but using 4 layers is probably good enough. I am a beginners but this is my research. Or you can do what he did later and used both spot welding on nickel strip and solder 1 gauge wire to increase to 100amp. However a good soldering iron like TS100 is needed to quickly melt the solder without damaging the 18650. Get some goggles too.
Yo. I hear you. Ive seen the nickel charts quoted up and down various forums. The nickel charts you are referring to are useless. They were made for solar panels and do not account for length of nickel. Today, i use one layer of nickel with 10 or 12 ga wire soldered to the top of nickel. Check any of my recent battery build videos.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 ua-cam.com/video/wdZ_Ca_sAZE/v-deo.html
In this video he's referring to applying nickel strip on battery on a ebike. TLDR: bridging use less strip while accomplishing this same task. I plan to do bridge on a 6S3P by folding on the bridge. Cross my fingers.
Sorry but I need help...the esc in the video is ok for 2 motors, 1500w and 22v each one? Thanks
Davide Maria hey Davide. If ur battery is 42V (10s), both motors are getting 42v. When i purchased esc on ebay, i had to specify voltage. There were 3 options 6s, 7s, and 10s (25.2V, 29.4V, 42V). The esc in the video is dual motor. Yes, two motors are ok. Its an easy esc to use and set up. It works with most of the common motors for esk8. Its not the best quality esc, but its great for overall ordinary use. I have used it with 6374, 6354, and 5055 brushless motors)
Why did you use 40A BMS while your battery supplies at least 60A?
Does this set up works correctly and not overheat?
I want to use the same battery (10s4p) but draw 80A, can I also use this BMS?
Or should I go with an expensive 100A one?
8SharkTV Moshe BMS is used for charge cycle only. For discharge, battery connects directly to esc.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 will it disconnect the battery when one of it`s cells drops below cut-off voltage?
8SharkTV Moshe no, but your ESC should.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 Thank you for your answer
Great video where did you buy the 18650 cells?
Hi Cruz. I got cells on aliexpress. For me they have been working as advertised. Ive build a handful of batteries using HG2 cells and so far no issues. If you do use them, make sure you charge them fully as soon as they come in.
www.aliexpress.com/item/100-New-Original-HG2-18650-3000mAh-battery-18650HG2-3-6V-discharge-20A-dedicated-For-LG-Electronic/32868746648.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.1.201ebafbctVEHn&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10065_10068_10130_10890_10547_319_10546_317_10548_5730311_10545_10696_453_10084_454_10083_5729211_10618_10307_538_537_536_10059_10884_10887_100031_321_322_10103-5729211,searchweb201603_51,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=7566e5e0-f15d-46bc-8681-d75ca4e8b574-0&algo_pvid=7566e5e0-f15d-46bc-8681-d75ca4e8b574
Hey I finished this battery and before I charged it my volts were 28v and when I plugged it in to the charger it went down to 8v and isn’t coming up and my balance changer also won’t connect to it. Do you have any idea what’s wrong with it or if it’s fixable
Cheas Moon Hi chase. Is it 7s battery? It sounds like you may have a dead cell or problem with bms or problem with series connection.
Here is my troubleshooting suggestion:
1. Access the balance cable.
2. Using a voltmeter, keep one probe on battery neg, other probe (+) checks each cable in the balance cable (there should be small metal surfaces you can check on balance cable)
3. Each cell should have equal voltage.
If one cell is bad, you should be able to find it.
Cheas Moon look at 26:30 in this video. Thats your standard cell check using balance cable.
Cheas Moon if all cells check out ok, than its you balance charger. Let me know how it goes!
Artsiom Naidzich I’ll give it a go when I got some time but thank you so much for your time
Artsiom Naidzich i got a electrician to look at it and he said I used the wrong kind of charger and that’s what killed it I need new battery’s now all mine are now at 0v or 0.01v
Which balanced battery charger do you suggest for 10s battery builded like your one?
ProgressiveRC iCharger 1010B+ www.amazon.com/dp/B005X0470G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_kPa.Cb4JTQZKY
This is the one I use. Have not tried any other ones. Icharger1010b+ has been excellent. Its not the easiest to use, but once u get used to it, it is awesome and versatile .
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 thanks!!
Hey just remember 4.2 v is when there new. thay don't always get 4.2 volts. even the batteries that you use.
For sure!
Great tutorial! How much do you reckon this build costs?
Thanks! Here is a rough cost breakdown:
18650 cells: 40 @ $3.00 = 120
BMS: $20.00
Connectors/Shrink Wrap/Tape/nickel strip (if you got nothing to start out with): $30
About $170 total.
I got 18 miles on this pack today (I only babied throttle last few miles). This is the set up I had: 42V 60A ESC (30A per motor), 90mm wheels, dual 5055 motors, KV 270. The board is fast and fun to ride. It gets up to 30 mph.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 Thanks for the reply. 18 miles is great!
@@roli5814 No problem. I meant to say 30, not 300 for connectors and all that small stuff.
I managed to finds stuff for what im tryna do (36v mostly) to make a pack for 169 with a hub motor and some tools so its pretty cheap ngl.
Great video! Where did you get your battery cells and BMS at?
Here is the link: www.aliexpress.com/item/100-New-Original-HG2-18650-3000mAh-battery-18650HG2-3-6V-discharge-20A-dedicated-For-LG-Electronic/32868746648.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.1.201ebafbctVEHn&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10065_10068_10130_10890_10547_319_10546_317_10548_5730311_10545_10696_453_10084_454_10083_5729211_10618_10307_538_537_536_10059_10884_10887_100031_321_322_10103-5729211,searchweb201603_51,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=7566e5e0-f15d-46bc-8681-d75ca4e8b574-0&algo_pvid=7566e5e0-f15d-46bc-8681-d75ca4e8b574
www.amazon.com/Battery-Protection-Ternary-Balance-Batteries/dp/B07DRP5DYB/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1545005805&sr=8-4&keywords=10s+bms
That esc is garbage, throttles 30a per channel, get a vesc and its derivatives.
Don't get liitokala cells, they're garbage and have wildly varying internal resistance, meaning they'll fall out of balance quickly. Save a few bucks now, it'll lead to problems later or even having to replace completely.
ESC = electronic speed controllers, not engine
It is bad BMS. Look at this (22:40). There is no one transistor on the right, although the sellers have it in the photo. One cell will not balance. Himself because of this refused this BMS.
Privet Pavel. Ti prav. Tochno odin transistor navernoe otvalilsia. Ia zamenil etot BMS.
Do you take orders for custom packs? Do you have a shop # or website?
Yo Paul. I dont have a website and i operate on word of mouth basis. I could help you out if you are in a pinch and need a power pack. DM me through FB messenger. My FB name is same as here, which is my real name.
I really want to build one my self after watching your great and detailed tutorials, thank you very much for all the great content your putting out, you are very talented. I just wanted a back up plan in case I got stuck. Thank you for the fast reply.
oh man, your video make me learn how to make that battery
especially that BMS, searching here and there for better BMS and no luck, this quarantine make everything like (super) rare stuff
the only available one is same as yours and I keep thinking how can I make it work, my battery discharge is atleast 60a and that BMS is for 40a
and your video save me, I can just direct the output from battery instead of using the BMS and what about the discharge safety? will it imbalance the cell? YES it will but I can just balance charge them, easy, but there will be no protection for overdischarge? well technically the esc will cut off if the power is below 36v (or 30v well idk yet complete noob here) that mean every cell will be around 3.6v and lowest for 18650 is 3.0 so it will be save (probably)
but I still have question
I dont have charger for 36v or 10s but I do have balance charger (ISDT Q6 pro) for 24v or 6s for my fpv drone stuff
if I make 2 pcs of 5s 18560 and use parallel on the esc will it work the same way and the one you made (10s)?
could I make 5s 18650 without BMS and charge them with my balance charger as 5S?
I want to save money as much as possible for my first electric board so I can build my second as a BEAST
thanks in advance and keep upload new content (ignore trash talk comment if they dont like your stuff they should just make with anything that suit their taste)
Chandra Suryanto. If you use BMS, you don’t need to use a balance charger. For about $18, you can buy a 10 S or 42 V charger. Everything you summarized is correct. BMS will balance the cells, and motor controller will shut itself off when total voltage is less than 30v.
How thick is the nickel strip
It's 0.1mm.
I have switched from doing multiple layers of nickel to one layer of nickel with copper wire over the top. This method allows for a flex in the battery.
ua-cam.com/video/WfH8vCWobHI/v-deo.html
Where can I purchase the best BMS that can do more than balance and are of good quality?
ELLIOTT MORIARTY Good question. I don’t know where. Aliexpress has the biggest selection of bms options. I use bms for charging/balance since most ESCs have a programable low voltage cut off. I can help you look. What voltage and amperage are you looking for?
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 It would be for a 12S battery pack with 4.2V each cell and really unlimited amps. However, your video made me think that I don't mind spending $200 or more on a good quality charger that can balance charge my pack if I made one without a BMS. Also, the BMS takes care of the charging part; not the discharge part while using the eboard?
@@WORLD-OF-MERLIN
Hobby balance charger I show in this video is Icharger1010B+. It is an awesome charger with one major limitation, it only balances 10 cells Li-Ion, 42V. I have not found a reliable Balance charger for 12 Cell System.
I have been using medium grade BMS protection boards on 12S packs. BMS has three functions: 1. Balance Cells During Charging Process. 2. Stopping charge cycle if any cell exceeds 4.2V. 3. Battery discharge through BMS with a specific amperage and low voltage cut off.
The more amperage that BMS is rated for, the more expensive it is. Most of your dual motor esk8s set ups will required current in 100a ballpark if you choose do discharge through bms. However, you can discharge your battery pack through a direct connection to ESC (bypassing bms). This ensures that you get all of your battery potential delivered directly to ESC. Running high amps through bms can result in bms overheating and shutting down current flow to ESC. Also, most ESCs have a progammable low voltage cut off to prevent overdischarge of battery pack.
Bottom line, you can safely use BMS for balance charge (most of bms have similar balance charging specs). To save you some $ and get most power out of your battery pack, direct connection from battery pack to esc is what I recommend. To prevent overdischarge, program your ESC to turn off at a certain voltage.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 Thanks for the thorough response. I've done a bypass of the discharge for a BMS and know that the BMS will take care of the balance charge, but wasn't sure about doing away completely with the BMS, but thanks to you now I know that I can find a good balance charger from Canada for about $300-$400 that will go up to 14 or more cells (it's used for ebikes also) and I have been programming my VESC to cut offs properly. So, I've got both ends covered without a BMS. Thanks, much appreciated for the confirmation; it was swirling around my mind, but wasn't 100% sure, but now I am.... Also, if your spot welder goes bad; then I recommend using a German made one (more expensive, but worth it), www.keenlab.de/index.php/product/kweld-complete-kit/
Here is the programmable charger: www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/chargers/satiator-high-voltage-model-5a-max.html
ELLIOTT MORIARTY thanks for the info. Will check it out!
Would this be more in line with the 10s3p or a 12s4p? Idk my s and p's
esc means electric speed controller
Thanks Tim. I think you are about 5th person in this thread to share this with me. Duly noted. Electric it is.
You are at 36v nominal and look for these cells datasheet 25A is peak, not nominal...
Your range estimation is at the lowest power setting
Ok. Thanks you.
I do have a question if you can please help me or correct me. So I’m building a e-skate board. And my ? Is,
if I pair batteries the amps go up, as well with the mAH, but the voltage does not, unless it’s in series. So if I were to buy a 6374 motor with a capacity of 80 max amps, That means The motor does not exceed 80 amps. But I would need 4 battery’s in pairs to get the 100 amps? Or would that be too much power since the motor tops at 80 amps. Or can I just buy a 10s2p battery pack and use that one? But the would mean it can only provide 50 amps, so that also means I wouldn’t be able to use those 80 amps? Right?
What's Up Miguel. Motor rating (amps) is just that. It means that your motor would be safe to operate at up to 80a at whatever voltage the motor is rated for. Motor is just one component. Your second component is your esc/vesc. Third component is battery pack. In order to build an efficient skateboard, those three components have to match (Especially battery and ESC).
In order for you to maximize the power of your motor, your esc and battery need to provide sufficient power.
Here is what I would do:
10s4p or 12s4p battery (42V or 50V, depends on what your motor and esc are rated at. The higher the voltage, the more powerful/efficient motor is).
Make sure your ESC can handle 80a. If your esc is a vesc, tune your vesc not to exceed max amp and voltage limits. If you are using unbranded e-bay esc, they are set at 30a per motor @ 42V.
What is the esc you are using? Is it a dual or single motor set Up?
I advise against 10s2p unless you are a very light person and never ride uphil. With 2P set up (depending on how many amps you draw) you are more likely to push your battery pack to its limits every time you ride. This will shorten the life span of your battery pack and will make riding around less enjoyable.
Artsiom Naidzich first of all thanks for taking to your time to reply. I’ve been searching all over for help.
But I’m planning on using a vest for 1 motor. I forgot to ask that the amps go up by the pairs and not by the series? So If I were to have a battery with a 25 amp consistency, and If pair 2 it goes to 50 amps. So if I make 10s4p battery pack it would be 100 amps batter pack, because it comes in pairs of 4? and not 1000amps? Because we don’t multiply 100amps times 10 cells ?
Miguel Angel Figueroa Rivera when you stack 18650 in parallel, you add mAh (capacity). When you stack 18650 in series, you add voltage. Think of amps as gasoline (liters/km or gal/mile). The bigger the motor, more amps it will pull out of the gas tank (battery).
Battery needs to be able to supply what motor needs. ESC is the gatekeeper between battery and motor. If esc can only do 50a per motor (most of the modern vescs are rated at 50a or 60a max)., than your motor is getting 50a. If you have 2 motors, your esc is letting 100a through (50a per motor). Point is, you can build a 10s4p pack (lets say 42v 100a, 12000mah). If your esc for single motor is rated for 50a, 50a is what motor is getting). Power produced by motor is measured in watts. WAtt=volts x amps. In order to increase motor power, you either increase V, or Amps, or both.
Hope it helps
Pack examples (s-series, p-parallel)
1s1p
4.2v 3000mah 20a
1s2p
4.2v 6000mah 40a
1s3p
4.2v 9000mah 60a
2s1p
8.4v 3000mah 20a
2s2p
8.4v 6000mah 40a
2s3p
8.4v 9000mah 60a
Artsiom Naidzich it helps me a bunch!!! Wish I could take you out for a coffee ☕️ ha!! Thanks man I really appreciate it (:
God bless
My question is you have more than 10S ? Or 1S is a group of 4 Li-ion ?
10S4P Pack. 4P means you have 4 18650s connected in parallel per cell (or on cell is made of 4 li-ion batteries). 10s mean that you have 10 cells connected in series.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 on the Eskate i want to modify i have 7 cell 18650 Battery.BMS have only 3 wires ,Battery pack is 3S2P and one is alone … outside Voltage BMS only 19.5V . i order a new BMS with 7 wires to each cells ..it seems to be an error as one wire BMS is for 2 Cell in my configuration ? and one wire for the cell alone ?
Hi artsiom great video do you have a link to your spotwelder?
Hi Brendon. Thanks. Spot welder that I use may me a discontinued model. I cannot find exactly the same one on either amazon or ebay. Its a sunko brand welder. there are a bunch of similar sunko welders out there though.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 thanks for the reply. I think i will be copying your battery but maybe with Samsung 30q cell. Hopefully i dont burn the house down.
brendon coad ha, nice! Good luck. This design have not failed me yet. I have gotten some input from other battery builders. To make you power pack run even better and add a degree of safety, add insulation rings on positive terminals. I started using copper wire with less nickel for series connection. Check out nighthawk vid on my channel if you want to see what im talking about.
What is the name of deck used in this video?
MANCHILDMD2020 check out the parts list in this vid. The long board links is there.
ua-cam.com/video/XCpbpk1aRag/v-deo.html
Question? Would your battery get a better range by discharging through bms?? Assuming we are using the correct output amp for a bms that the battery will be producing???
No. Best range through discharge is direct to esc. I dont know of many ESC that dont cut off automatically at certain voltage (or that you cannot program to cut off). Think of BMS as a small resistor or a block on the way to the ESC. Most BMS circuits that support the amp needs for esk8 are very expensive. I've always only used BMS for balance charging only.
Okay thank you. I was just curious because after riding my e board and the esc shut off at around 30v. I was curious as to what voltage each individual cells voltage was at. So I took heatshrink off my battery and tested each cell through bms and found that each cell didn’t all have the exact voltage. It was off by just a bit. So I was just curious if the discharge was direct from bms if it would discharge more evenly on the battery.
Gustavo Raya during discharge, bms does not balance anything. You will always have slight differences in cell voltage. Bms should balance it out after some time.
Thank you! You are awesome keep up the good work!
You have no flexibility in that nickel strip yet you're strapping it to a flexible skateboard? This is a fire waiting to happen I'm afraid. Series joins for electric skateboard batteries need to be done with at least 10awg wire or flat copper braid to allow the battery pack to flex with the deck. See my channel for how to do this correctly.
darkkevind cool. Thanks. Ive been doing wire for series for a bit now. At least 10 awg? Thats overkill. I go 12awg on mine. Im still using this pack, no fires yet.
darkkevind I’ve had no issues as my battery is mounted to the bottom of the enclosure. I’ve rode over all kinds of terrain and it’s all good.
May I ask where you get your batteries from
I used to get them from Litokala store on allie express. I have switched to Li-Ion wear-house online store.
How is your experience with Allie Express. I placed an order last week.
@@mta3562, with HG3 cells i had a mostly good xp. They are def not what they are advertised to be. They claim 3000mah and 20 or sometimes 30a per cell. Realistically, its about 2200mah per cell, and prob around 10 to 15a of continues discharge (it can do short bursts of 20a). Pretty much u got to build ur battery bigger with LK cells if u want ur power pack to, you know, be powerful.
Artsiom Naidzich thanks for the insight info. I have everything I need for the DIY mountain board except for the battery. I would like to build my own battery later on as I have to get all the equipments that you were using.
@@mta3562, good luck! Let me know how it goes!
What ESC is that? Is it dual motor?
Abz Khan , its unbranded model i get from ebay. It is dual motor. Here is the link:
www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-motors-longboard-skateboard-control-modula-ESC-Substitute-with-remote/323326552273?hash=item4b47c3a8d1:m:mxSlsLM_-dEIr0XuDFII9Lg
What awg wire did you use
Cheas Moon 12
Artsiom Naidzich just to clarify you used 12 awg wire when connecting the 5cell to the 6cell
Cheas Moon yes. Also your main +&- cables
Hi, can you make me a battery pack?
Hi. Do you know what power pack you need? DM me on FB messenger or instagram. Same name as this channel.
If the battery are not at the same voltage it dangerous for the battery assembly or not? example if for a 10s4p i have a group of 4battery at the same voltage and another group with another voltage its a problem? thanks for your video bay the way
theliryx yes, this would be a problem. Think of voltage as pressure. Electrons will move from high voltage cell to low voltage cell (if connected in parallel). If you connect bunch of cells with different voltage in series, your battery balancer will work extra hard to balance all cells (it may potentially damage ur bms. In summary:
A). Never connect different voltages in parallel
B). Avoid connecting different voltage cells in series ( up to 0.15V difference is ok: give or take some)
Charge all cells to max capacity 4.2v before connecting to avoid shorting/balancing issues.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 Thanks for your answer ! And i work with NCR18650B battery but when i charge a cell to 4.2v the voltage increase by himself after the charge (4.30v to 4.54v max )and decrease to a normal voltage (4.10v to 4.16) its normal or not ! this NCR18650B are normally a good one so i dont know why the voltage increase by himself !
theliryx what are u using to charge them? Its panasonic cell, right? Going over 4.2v is not normal in my experience. Check voltage on your charger. If you are using multiple cells in series and charging them together, are you using a balance charger or bms? Overcharging can damage ur cells (best case), or battery will catch on fire (worst case).
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 I have a intelligent charger "golisi " but i have to notice he has a difference between the voltage on a charger and my multimeter so when on the charger the cell is 4.2v its not really at this voltage but over 4.2v ! ( so this charger its not great )
But what i dont understand its why the voltage of the cell increase by himself when i receive these cells they are at 3.7 to 3.8v and 1day after the voltage arrived to 4v without charge...
Yes its panasonic cell!
I would like to do a 10s5p battery i have the basic in electricity but there are some things i can do wrong so i prefer to not run this project so fast and do this well so i dont assemble these battery yet but yes i will using a 10s bms ! I know these cells can be dangerous so i preferred to ask some he know better than me !
(I m french so sorry if my english its not correct )
theliryx look up data sheet on ur ncr cell. Typically it should say what max voltage tolerance is. Example: max 4.2V +/- .05v. Cells sometimes do rebound voltage, but going from 3.6 to 4 without charge is not normal. U may have a bad cell. Cell may have physical damage. Do you know if your cells are genuine or possibly a fake (some fake are ok). Also, try using a different charger and voltmeter to test them out. After testing ur cells with different equipment, you will be able to identify what the problem is: cells, charger, voltmeter, or charging process.
Do all of ur cells do that, or just some?
would this process work with Samsung 40T 21700 4000mAh 30A? I don't have a deathwish on future all-terrain board, I'm just wanting more range and uphill torque.
Damon Thomas yes, it would. I would go heavier on nickel strips, or add 12ga wire to ur series connection. U can check out 12s6p battery pack vid on my channel to see what im talking about.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 sweet thx
is a 10s 8p battery excessive?
I have not looked for one. My guess is: if you do find a quality 10s8p for sale, it will be expensive. If you make one yourself, it's going to be $300 to $400 dollars, depending on what type 18650/bms/nickel/siliconeWire/etc you will get.
Psrj1748-2446ad if you can fit it, why not? I would say it’s definitely not excessive if you want to ride longer. I saw a new board with a 12s12p battery. Like 50 mile range
@@enjoyesk8978 It's not impossible, It's just impractical. I got a 12s6p that I build for my all terrain board (Video Link Below). It has 20+mile range of aggressive riding, or 30+ of mild riding. The longest single continuous ride I've been on is 20 miles. 20 miles is enough to wear me out. If you want a 12s12p, send it! I'll help you build it!
ua-cam.com/video/nrvnTaA1E4Q/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/lY_sapLZjbQ/v-deo.html
Artsiom Naidzich the original question was if a 10s8p was excessive. I also think it’s not necessary but if you have the money and space to fit it, why not have an ability to go a further distance. The cells are getting better so even a 10s4p or 10s5p is plenty sufficient imo.
Artsiom Naidzich also I appreciate the offer but I’ve built a few packs myself and have saved a lot of $. I doubt I’ll need a pack that big for a skateboard. Maybe for a future project. I want to do a drift trike. Thanks for the videos man!
That esc could handle 60+amp? I am confused.
Wilson Leung esc is governed at 60 amps. 60 amps is max that esc will pull out of the battery.
hey bro, what brand of charger is that with a balance cables, and where did you get it???
Noka 777 ProgressiveRC iCharger 1010B+ www.amazon.com/dp/B005X0470G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_8J-DEbQWETZEG
thanks bro
Where can I buy..ROHS Ru94UoE253642Y-D.just took this circuit board out of my oneWheel..
Braham Young ive never looked for one. What does this circuit board do? There are a bunch of one wheel forums. Have you looked there? How about electric skateboard builders website/forum?
can you also give me an info for the bms you are using
Noka 777 Battery Protection Board, BMS 10S 36V 40A Li-ion Battery Protection Module Charger Protection Board for Ternary Cobalt Acid Batteries with Balance BMS PCB www.amazon.com/dp/B07SZN18DN/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_CL-DEbZKWA6RP
Noka 777. Noka, would you please subscribe to my channel? Got an updated li-ion flex battery video coming out next week. Thanks.
I just did
I DONT HaVE A DECK , MY DECK IS a big BATTERYS :)
Well than, problem solved... :)
Electric speed controller not engine
Thanks: someone beat you to it!
Tesla cigars.
Jooo dont use these liitokala cels there tottaly fake
gijs volker thanks. They are fake. But a decent fake. I do get 3000 mah out of them. Amperage is not what they advertise. Do you have a suggestion where to buy non fake cells? Im in US.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 i dont know where ur from but in europe i use nkon
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 yea i know they have 3000mah but max amp is more like 5-7.5 amps
gijs volker I got a 12s4p made out of this litokala cells hooked up to focbox unity. I have it set to 50a per motor, 100a total. On acceleration, HUD app shows 100a of current. I think this fakes a capable of 20a+ per 18650 (just not for the continues discharge).
Fake hg2s and crappy chinese esc good luck it wont last. Check you cells after 20 cycles. Bet your not getting close to 3000mah anymore and a shity bms this is a perfect example of not what to do. Litokala LG = Fake, nickel plate steel strips, shitty vesc, no isolation rings on battery. Worst battery build ever, shitty bms that will discharge your pack and end up killing it when not used. Epic Fail
I respectfully disagree with almost everything you said my friend.
You are one of them keyboard warriors esc/battery/bms/nickel experts. Great to hear your input dingus. I guess you have done some skateboard forum browsing. People love hating on other people's work over there. My guess is that you have not done much esk8 builds yourself. One thing you did mention that I have changed since this vid, is insulation rings. With that said, I've never had a battery problem due to original cell insulation failing.
BMS is shitty you say? (you did say it twice). Maybe you did not connect it right? I estimate about ten 10s packs that I have personally build with this BMS. BMS has failed me zero times. You may just have bad luck.
Steel nickel strip? Where are you getting that from? I'm not sure what the purity of nickel was in that particular build, but I only buy pure nickel strip (or at least it is advertised as pure nickel)
I build esk8 based on people's budget. I do have two builds that I made for myself: one with dual esk8de controllers, and one with focbox unity. High end controllers are way better for sure. You are preaching to the quire, dingus. However, those cheap Chinese escs and batteries have been reliable for me so far. Outside german made esk8de vescs that are manufactured in Germany, I am not aware of many others that are not manufactured in China. The oldest esk8 build with this esc that I still ride is this one (I've had it for 9 month):
ua-cam.com/video/150scB51QD8/v-deo.html
The ESC and the pack are still going strong. It still hits 30mph. Pack has been through hundreds of charge cycles and still has good capacity. I did a 18 mile ride on it last month (ESC is set to cut out at 3v per cell, and it did). Battery took on over 10000mAh after cutting out at 3v. I have personally used and have friends that use this batteries and escs. None have issues that you have described.
Do you have personal experience with all the shit you talked about or you just read about it on electric skateboard builders forum? If so, please send me a link to it. I'll be happy to share my opinion with you, my dingus friend!
Like and Subscribe!
Here is a link of german esk8De controllers and fake chinese hg2 12s6p pack doing work.
ua-cam.com/video/k2zYR2SeJew/v-deo.html
bro buy a new mic
Jad, i did. Its an older video.
@@artsiomnaidzich9515 haha im just messing, great instructional video man
Do not build a esk8 battery like this if you dont want a fire. Each p group needs to be insulated from the others with adhesive fish paper. Also fishpaper rings on all the positive ends. Also round the ends of all nickel strip..dont cut it straight with sharp edges. This battery must flex and do this by using flexible wire or 1/2" copper braid between p groups and series connections. This video has some good info and some very bad tecniques mixed in that will end in a burnt down house , car, or board and the bad thing is you won't know when your lithium fire will start or how it will end. Also remember two nickel strips @ .15 doesnt =.3 for amperage. Your series connections must carry the amperage of the whole pack so do it well and solder from the middle of the p group's nickel and not from the ends. All I can say is this video is bad info and dont build it like this. Go to esk8.news and ask your questions in the battery forum. These guy will show you charts and show you how to build a safe battery that will last.
Brent, how nice of you to chime in. Every pack can be build safer and better. I follow the same forums and more that you speak of. This is one of the earlier packs ive built. Every point you bring up has been brought up already in this message group. How many variations of power packs have you personally built? Im in 40+ at this point with no shorts or fires. The nickel strip charts are made for solar panels, where amperage is carried for a long distance, hence the values u get. If you follow ur own safety standard, you will end up with battery thats mostly made up of nickel strip. Ive also never had a factory insulation ring fail. As for rounding nickel strip, sure thats what someone wrote on on of the esk forums, and people jumped on a bandwagon. As long as cut strip to size and properly spot weld the ends, I don't think that step is necessary.Open up some of the commercial packs and see if they round the corners. Insulating each p series for added safety, sure why not. Again, never had a problem with just using hot glue. I do encourage people to do as much research before they start any project. All the things you mentioned a great added safety factors. And all of those have been addressed in my recent builds on my yt channel. Point of this video is to show overall process of battery pack building, and to show how to calculate mathematically the size of the battery needed for your ESC or vesc. And this video has hit those marks. Its great that you read the forums and share your knowledge. Perhaps you should make a video of it and post it. Send me a link too! Cheers. Have a nice day.