I don't fault the players for seeking as much money as possible, I just don't want my team to have a bunch of bad contracts they can't move while preventing the team from being able to sign legitimate assets.
Yep. I don't fault OEL for getting $8 million a season. I'm upset at the Canucks owner for forcing a trade to get him. ... Although to be fair for all involved, OEL wasn't bad his first season here and if it weren't for that foot injury, the Canucks would likely have won several more games. (He's On Ice Goal differential was just shy of 20 worse than expected. The only Canucks player even close to that was Myers at -18.) Jesus Christ! I knew those two had rough seasons, but this is the first time I looked at those numbers. And the Canucks were paying them a combined $13 million. Ouch. I don't blame the players for getting paid. I just wish they were being paid that much by a team I don't cheer for.
The salary cap makes it relatively easy to judge GMs in this sense because everyone has the same budget and it's a hard ceiling. So the question is, it is wise to spend X% of the team's budget on Player Y? In the days before salary caps became a thing, it was much easier to criticize ownership/management for being cheapskates for not spending top dollar to sign or re-sign big-name players, because it was easy to assume that if you were rich enough to buy a sports team, you had a bottomless pool of money and could spend endlessly on salaries.
I think it's because fans get to see how players' salary affects the on-ice performance, while owners diving from their luxury yachts to swim in a pool of money isn't as visible. You have to be a scrooge like Harold Ballard for fans to even notice/ get outraged. Also maybe yknow some older fans get a bit jealous seeing young kids make more in a year than most of us in an entire lifetime.
@@stevendchu I'd say it has more to do with people being fans of teams moreso than fans of players. It makes sense, players are way more transitory on a team through the years. There are players I really like, but if they aren't on my favorite team I don't want them to win at the expense of my team.
It was the owners who gave us hockey during the pandemic and took all of the financial risk (and loss) during the bubble and during the 2021 season. And the players were the ones who had the gall to bitch about escrow. The only reason why we had hockey to watch was because of the owners, and I don’t forget that.
A little more credit to the WHA. Not only are they responsible for players getting paid better, but they forced the NHL to expand into markets that they probably wouldn't have without competition. Without the WHA, I'm pretty sure teams like the Canucks, Sabres & Islanders wouldn't exist, and the only teams in Canada would be Montreal and Toronto, since those two franchises were against sharing their tv money with anyone else. It's almost like the whole purpose of the WHA was to force the NHL to expand faster, pay their players better, and add more Canadian teams to that league, since the WHA was adamant that all three Canadian teams in the WHA be added to the NHL.
Pretty sure WHA helped with the NHL getting the draft age lowered to 18. I wouldn't doubt it would've gone down to 18 eventually anyway. but i'm sure the WHA attempting to pluck the talent by having a lower draft age expedited the process
I'm 100% a union man, but I think the salary cap and revenue sharing is good for both the players and the owners. If there were a lockout / strike on the horizon, I would have to look at the issues being raised by both sides, but barring something strange, I would be supporting the players. On the other hand, I HATE the NHLPA when they fight to get suspensions reduced. Get rid of the dirty players. Don't support them. Remember, the injured player is also part of the NHLPA.
I think last year's lockout in major league baseball has been interesting in terms of looking at who the fans supported. In 1994 I think most fans sided with the owners, but judging from reactions I saw online, it seemed most people really supported the players this time around. I think this is a good trend, and hopefully the NHLPA benefits from it next time they have labor struggles Side note, but my favorite thing that came out of last year's lockout was a tweet from Jon Bois that basically said "I actually go to the game for the owners. The players I could give or take. If I paid for a game and all I saw was a baseball sitting on the mound, I would be satisfied." If that doesn't show the ridiculousness of siding with the owners in a labor struggle, idk what would
The NHL is the one league where a salary cap isn't for the betterment, as far as I'm concerned. What really sticks out are the artificial factors that are added to artificial markets. We've seen a league that has clearly been in decline since 2005-06. You could argue the decline had already begun on February 1st of 1993. Certainly, the league didn't benefit from "the trap era".
Still sad a team lost a Cup in the 04-05 lockout. I remember Roenick saying potentially a 26 or 28 game abbreviated season or something. Then nothing happened, still a bummer to this day.
Due to the average NHL salary cap per team. Players can't really even afford to be too greedy. Unlike in Baseball, Football and Basketball where the cap is easily over 100 mill or more. While I believe the average NHL cap room per team is around 83 million or lower. Paying 20 professional athlete's with a cap around 80 million dollars is rough. That's not including the coaching staff and other type of staff members.
@@Reedjohnmiller It's pretty much an example of how low the overall NHL teams budget is, compared to the rest of sports. That's what I meant for that part.
So if you add everything together, team/staff/coaching/scouts etc. It still doesn't even come close to the what a team in the NBA like the Charlotte Hornets have as just a team cap. Awful team, doesn't really draw a ton of fans and still has a team cap of 123.6 million dollars. So my point is the owner in the NHL have an overwhelming advantage over the players in the NHL, compared to say basketball and football where players have more leverage in there sport over the owners and how much money they can ask/demand for more. Player in the NHL asks for over 10 million per season. That's about 8.3 percent of the teams cap which heavily affects them overtime. (Using the Rangers 83 million as an example for this.)
On July 3rd, ESPN will opt out of the remaining 5 years of a 7-year contract to hold the first half of the NHL’s media rights and sell the remainder of the contract to CBS Sports.
People saying hockey players aren't doctors....Let me ask you this : Do you want Owner getting the most cash or the players? Who's giving the show? Better have players getting most of the cash...The logic that if players are paid less,ticket will be cheaper is complete nonsense.
From a players POV: you've spent your entire life dedicated to hockey. Your parents have prob alr spent a ton of money to get you where you are today. You have a limited professional window. You (prob) don't have a degree/diploma that will give you career opportunites after retirement. Not everybody can be Biznasty, media opportunities are limited. Why wouldn't you get as much as you possibly can? 78% of pro athletes face financial issues after they retire. Taking a team friendly deal to win a Cup might be nice at the end of your career, but pawning off rings so you can afford child support isn't.
With the exception of one job. Every job I’ve had tried to make me feel guilty about wanting a fair wage. Never believe the owners when they say their trying to make things fair for everyone. It’s the oldest trick in the book.
I never understood why people want the CAP to go up. Your team isn't getting better players, they'll just pay more to the same ones. And many teams already spent a good chunk of the increase even before it goes up by signing bigger contracts, "because the CAP is going up, so we'll be OK". And more important, YOU'RE PAYING FOR IT. Why would you like to pay more for the same product? The money comes out of you. Plus, for every million the CAP increases, another one goes to the owners pockets. Why would you help billioners get wealthier at your expense?
I liked the no cap period. The Red Wings were spenders and signed Brett Hull, when the other owners refused to do it. Nobody tried to sign Hull. When the Red Wings did sign him, the Wings were made out to be the bad guys. So they legalized the salary cap. Cheap owners got to make more money.
That's the only way the Wings could have won anything. Buying their way to a cup. Hull was past his prime at that stage. No way that era happens again.
Most redicolous thing is that the owners blame the players for the COVID-19 shutdown 2019-2020 season… and for some mystical reason the revenue lost is players fault and now players are on depth for the owners, because the COVID-19 happened.
Just remember, every time you hear the phrase "Better for the league." grab your wallet. As a fan my ideal scenario is lousy TV ratings and half empty buildings. Anything that hurts the ability of teams to jack up prices. I've never understood why regular fans care about whether or not the NHL has a big pop culture presence in the US. More people watching makes it more expensive for us all.
I think George Carlin's "Fuck the fans" rant in Bird Droppings had it right. Only the players matter in any sport. We can all disappear and what's left: the players. They are going to play their game in their local rinks, courts, fields, whatever. Fans absolutely don't matter, the owners don't matter. I'm always on the player's side in these disputes.
They earn more money than they could spend in several lifetimes, zero sympathy for the players today. 50/50 split is a beautiful thing and hats of to all involved to making that happen.
I agree 100%. The owners have always been greedy. Praise and Suter signing. The team offered that money on day one and they took it like any smart man. 4 months later the owner is claiming they can’t keep the lights on with these contracts. What?! You offered the money to get the top to FAs and now you want to roll back that deal. That’s crap.
Look at it this way. Here you are, a fan, seeing some millionaire sports player get paid 4 million a year to play a game while you make peanuts laying concrete. Players come off as entitled children.
The salary cap and with it, a cap floor, are overall, good things for sports. See the gongshow that is the MLB right now. You have 5 MLB teams that have payrolls BELOW the NHL cap floor. The Lightning's payroll is higher than the Rays. You have the Mets who are spending 10x what the Athletics are spending on players. I'm still surprised the MLB didn't have a full season lockout to fight for a salary cap/floor. It's the main reason why the MLB is such a poor product to watch.
American workers for the past 50 years have slowly become less unionized as a whole, so much so that the idea of a union outside of blue collar work is seemingly laughable. Many people don't know what work is like with a union or know anyone that is in a union. Americans have lost so much buying power but we think that paying union fees in exchange for a higher standard of living is dumb. I will will support unions in most cases; the business/franchises will make plenty of money, just less on the margins.
Two thoughts on this matter, and it applies to all pro leagues, not just the NHL: First, it became impossible for me to criticize players for maximizing their earnings once I realized how short the average career is. These guys have a very short window in which they can make 6-7 figures/year for playing hockey; even if you avoid catastrophic injury, aging or wear and tear can take away just enough edge to cost you your job. It's not comparable to professions and trades where you can have an uneventful decades-long career earning decent money year in and year out. So I don't blame players for wanting to make the most out of the opportunity while they have it. At the same, age and experience have also taught me that people who have never owned/run a business tend to underestimate their fragility. Even with professional sports franchises, I reject the notion that they can be careless with money, and that the guys in the board rooms are all lighting up expensive cigars with C-notes. Having run a small business myself, I understand needing to maximize your opportunities to make a profit, because you never truly know how long it will last. I also understand that if you don't keep an eye on your costs (including labor) things can go south on you, and very quickly. It's not as easy as it looks from the outside. You can have a lot of money coming in, but you always need to make sure that amount is more than what's going back out.
There are two huge issues here. Number one, is that the sports agents involved here are the same agents working for companies that manage baseball, basketball, football, and players in the likes of the Premiership, and other European football leagues. Let's look at golf, racing, especially Formula 1, and you see the kind of money that is coming into the few huge companies that do this. With the salary cap, the NHL are on the lower end of the pay scale, and even though an arena holds far fewer people than say an NFL stadium, the NHL play forty-one home games a year...the owners are making money, but so are the agents, and they really do not work that hard. The second point is this. We have seen many players in the NHL that had promising careers in other sports, and we also know about the players in other sports that could have played NHL but didn't, why? The NHL is brutal on the body, it can take most of the year with training camp, regular season, playoffs, draft etc., why wouldn't you play baseball? Being on the road, young, easier on the body, playing in the summer, Christmas off, winter off, way more money than an NHL'er. NHL guys are just trying to keep up, but so are their agents...they are the real greedy scum in this.
Really it does not matter i have not been able to afford a ticket since the 1980s any way,not to mention the consessiion and parking fees .The league is now supported by the rich and company tickets
It's all management and labor. The key word is balance. The way it is right now with NHL games is that it prices a lot of fans out of attending in person.
It's rich owners, rich players, and everyone else. Most people don't mind seeing players in any sport making big bucks as their career is over within 20 years, but they're still young when they retire/quit and can still make money in other ways for decades. My favourite football player made good money while playing retired at 34 due to injury, coached a bit and worked in the energy sector for three decades.
I'll never side against the players when it comes to this argument, for the same reason I'll never side against the concession staff or the janitorial staff. Labor deserves the entire cake, and players are still laborers, they're just the labourers who are compensated closest to what they're actually worth.
I personally have never liked unions. Makes it difficult to keep good employees when all the shitty ones get equal treatment even if they're doing a fraction of the work. Then you can't fire them because their so protected. Good workers typically don't like unions and those who just coast through work doing bare minimum love them.
Whatever the players are making the owners are making triple. They only have so long to make the money so I won't knock them for trying to get as much as they can while they are healthy.
I think the lack of a strong union historically has a lot to do with the fact that the league is predominately Canadian and Canadians historically and culturally don't have as violent of a labour union history as say the United States. Yes, you had the Winnipeg General Strike and the Regina Riot but in the States you have countless mining towns from West Virginia to Colorado where there have literally been massacres (i.e. people shot and killed) to break up strikes and other riots like in places Chicago due to racial tensions around the hiring of immigrant and/or African-Americans. What's crazy now is because of the success of a labour party, the New Democratic Party (NDP) in Canada is that Canadians have much stronger labour protections (aroundminimum wage, universal healthcare, etc.) then their American counterparts because of the prescence of an actual labour party in government lol
To clarify something...50% of the revenue goes to the owners, who then need to go pay everyone on the staff including people like Mary in accounts payable, Bob in accounts receivable, Tony in facilities and all of the trainers, scouts, managers and HR, plus the general business overhead like rent/lease agreements, payroll taxes and insurance, legal, and general employee benefits, etc. Just like in any other business, that all gets paid out of the owners' share. The players don't have to pay out any of that, except paying their agents.
I have no problem with players holding out for their worth, I just don't want the management of teams I cheer for to give market value contracts to any players, because that's a big part of winning unfortunately. I'd love for the cap to be removed. I'd personally support a boycott to that effect. Some people think capitalism has already had its day, and they might be right, or they might be wrong.
If you are a top player and you’ve shown your ability and leadership, go get your money. Go where you think you’ll get the money you deserve, and where you think you’ll thrive.
The taxpayers in every league provide a free farm system with the colleges and universities then subsidize new stadiums. Cut it all off. If teams evaporate on all levels so be it. Sick of it.
I see it as pretty level from both. It is destroying the game and I'll say it AGAIN ADDS! We have more on uniforms and the playing surface than all the other top sports COMBINED! Tired of both, the cost of taking your kid to a game you need to take out a loan and still only get cheep seats. Who isn't tired of seeing a player sign a huge contract for a ridiculous amount and watching them phone it in. I'm all for fair pay and all but we're being bled dry.
Guys, like 98% of you are in the same situation as the players. You are labor. If you don’t like that players make more than you, consider that these are the absolute very best players in the world, who took on enormous risk to rise to the top, and who have to retire in their mid thirties with no guarantees beyond that. Players are the reason we watch the game, and they deserve to be paid as much as possible.
The owners have NO chance of losing money because if they sell there team they will get a BILLION dollars or more . There are less than a 1000 people able to PLAY hockey and there career is short.
Does the NHLPA have an annual fee that players pay and is disbursed upon a strike or lockout? just think a reserve fund like that could provide some protection for entry-level guys if they entered the league during a lockout or strike period?
before the cap, it was "our team can't afford this guy at 8+million per year". you don't see that anymore, now it's "we can't fit him under our cap" unless it's Arizona, money isn't a problem for teams. 31 out of 32 teams respect the league minimum at least.
I don't have a problem with players making their money based on the revenues they generate. The only argument I might make (and call me a raging pinko if you like) is that perhaps we should have a cap on ticket prices and a cap on merchandise sales. You can deal with ticket prices easily. Just set a price and adjust it for inflation. As for merchandise sales, you can make everyone happy. Anything over a certain amount in merch revenue goes directly to the owner's favourite charity (and by that I DON'T mean one of his or her friends). And any team that couldn't operate under those conditions, well, maybe there's a better location for that team. Fair for the owners, players, and the most neglected of the 3, the Fans. Obviously, that's totally unrealistic, but how about for a couple of years as a good will gesture to the fans who stood with the league through COVID? After everyone's gotten back all the money they lost. I'm being generous. Give me a break 🤣.
Professional sports remains a meat grinder of a career path…any day can be the day a player gets a career-ending injury. In other words, the players put their health on the line every time they go out there, so who can blame them for wanting to make as much money as they can before they have to stop? The owners are at nothing like that kind of risk. Unless James Dolan gets blinded by a tomato thrown at his terrible band and somehow has to sell…or not even sell, but give away…the Rangers as a result, I’m just not seeing how there’s any comparison.
folks may bellyache that players are greedy. it's the players prerogative to earn the best they can in their finite career. if the player chooses to leave $ on the table to help the front office pay other guys, that's his choice. at the end of the day, the gm is responsible for making the numbers work to fit under the salary cap.
ok no hate but see the problem comes when the fans/players loyalty is to a dead duck if you with. ie quick in L.A.. he wasn't holding up his end of the contract they trade him and it's boo hoo how could you.
@michaelbecker2435 understandable, kings made the right business decision to trade quick, but got crucified for it by fans because they wanted quick to finish his career with the kings. can't always make everyone happy. 🤷
I am glad the owners took a hardline against them unlike baseball. If the players complain they don't make much money then go find another job. Maybe start a business and see the costs.
Pretty much everyone wants to be paid what they think they're worth. The only reasonable way to figure out what that is comes from negotiating. The biggest change the union brought in was making salaries transparent. Once players knew what other players were getting then it made it a lot easier to stand firm in negotiations for your next deal. On the cap, I was always in favour of it. It leads to more balance in the league, a guaranteed share of revenues for players, and reasonable profits for the teams as a whole. The 50% that teams get isn't profit. It's what pays for coaches, scouts, travel, meals, hotels, arenas, and all the other costs they incur to generate the revenue. And some profit.
Players are greedy. Owners are greedy. The cost to attend a hockey game as a fan is 10x or 20x higher than it was in the 90s. This is a direct result of owners and players fighting for money.
I wanna see what happens with the olympics question, next cba. If the russia-Ukraine war drags on to the next olympics, trying to make a true best-on-best tournament of it may be a moot point for the NHL, unless the IOC pulls the same bullshit they did last games, with “Olympic athletes from Russia” or whatever it was they called it…
They can be playing for the contract then that is fine but don't complain about having a bad team around you. Aaron Rodgers being paid a crazy amount then crying every year that they don't have a winning team around him really turned me off to him as a fan. To me its not a matter of owners vs players. Take that up during the cba. The players know the salary cap and know if they take a large amount that their teammates then need to be underpaid or shipped out to bring in cheaper(likely worse) players. You can't have your cake and eat it. If you want to make as much money as possible go for that but then don't complain if the team is not as successful as it could be or that the fans resent you.
I know that the MLB players and the NHL players all went through the same issues... MLB was spread out over 100 years which was longer than the NHL existed at the time. The players even made their own league back in the late 1900's... thanks to some crooked politicians.. and judges (see the ex-judge/commisionner Kenesaw Mountain Landis).. they kept the players there down too until they finally were able to unionize in the 60's and in the 70's killed that pesky reserve clause to create free agency. I know there, the funny part was that after the salaries started rising.. MLB owners were forced to maximize profits... prior to.. there were empty seats during the world series... not much anymore.. and by maximizing.. they actually made more money than before.. (OMG, is that possible?)... one thing the NHL has done... they learned from MLB.... MLB gave in during the strike in '81... the players learned... the NHL got hung in '92... well,they've learned to never allow the union to have leverage like that again.. MLB got burned in the 90's too when they lost a world series... Both leagues today won't allow the players to pick when the job action occurs... and the NHL had the stones to cancel a season. Showing the players that they need the owners more than the owners needed them (not players per se.. but THOSE players.... there will always be more.... and the game goes on long after Wayne Gretzky or any other player retires)... I know the NHLPA hired Fehr because of how he handled the MLB teams... problem is... the NHL owners can and will unite much easier and have shown.. they are not afraid to wait the players out..
The NFL was going through some things quite similarly. You even had some star players like Larry Csonka head over to the startup World Football League for the promise of more money than he was getting as a member of the Miami Dolphins. But when that folded, the players went on strike in 1982, resulting in only a shortened 9 game regular season instead of the usual 16. When the players struck again in 1987, the NFL just hired replacement players to play the games. True free agency didn't come around until 1994. The most recent NFL lockout occurred during the 2011 off-season. The NBA had to go to a shortened off-season during that time as a result of their lockout. They didn't have the start of the season until I believe Christmas day of that year.
but the owners treated the players as their slaves. Gordie Howe turned his back on Lindsay... you had retired players living in poverty trying to sell broken sticks and such to survive,,, the players are the reason the owners got rich yet they refuse to share the money they made from Vegas and Seattle entry. WHA made NHL pay up.... WHA created the first million dollar player. sadly Bettman cares nothing about the league, players or fans only filling the owners pockets and owners will always be greedy to get more and give players less..
Too simplitic. Most small market teams owe their survival to the salary cap. And the 50% to the owners doesn't go to "32 men." Some teams like the Rangers are owned by a publically traded corporation, not a single person.
@The Hockey Guy It's 50/50. So, it's the exact same chunk as the players get. The problem is the cap. The reason for the cap is to keep failing franchises afloat. If the cap was removed and players were paid as much as teams were willing to pay them, all the best players would go to large market teams in free agency and a third of NHL teams would never win anything and go under. It's not even comparable to football or baseball, which have long traditions in the US market. US fans will root for unsuccessful football or baseball teams forever because the team is part of their family tradition or area. Not so with hockey, at least for US expansion teams. Hockey players don't make less than other professional sports players because the owners are greedy. They make less because the sport is less popular in America than football, baseball or basketball; the Canadian dollar is weaker than the American dollar; some teams are in underperforming markets and the league is probably alittle bit too big.
@Reed Miller NFL doesn't have a salary cap. The salary cap keeps the large market teams from out spending small market teams. If players wanted to be paid more, the league should scrap the cap. I agree that some small market teams are established enough to survive regardless of how they perform on the ice. Thus is true in the NFL. But a fair number of NHL teams are simply not, especially the US teams in nontraditional markets.
@The Hockey Guy "Your setup"? I'm just highlighting the issue with having a salary cap. You get a more competitive balance, but more successful players give up the higher contracts they would've received in a system without a cap. It's not the owners being "greedy", lower salaries are just a symptom of the salary cap system.
This makes me laugh every time I see a video or comment or conversation around player salaries and it is clearly not even open for debate in my eyes that Yes, players are greedy!! Let me explain my stance since most will be like no they aren`t but when you think of a team and all 20 players on that roster and breakdown the average salaries compared to some of the players making the most in the league; you might change your mind. Salary Cap is: 83.5M Roster: 20 players That means the actual bases salary that every player in a equal shares situation should be taking home; 4.175M per season. Yes, I know you have stars etc.... NHL & NHLPA have a greed on base salary of $700, 000 per season for players after their rookie contracts. And rookie contracts are 925,000 per season. But it does go to show that Stars are rather greedy and thinking of only themselves when you think some of the players are taking home $12.5M, which is the average salary of one full line so they are effective playing by themselves; but they are stealing money from other players is more the way that I look at. For every million or dollar over the average salary of 4.175M means your team is going to be that much weaker and someone isn`t going to be paid fair value. That being said the NHL & NHLPA determine minimum at $700, 000 or 925,000 rookie. Which than changes the average salary that players should be earning. Since you a bases salary and than the remaining Salary cap to find your base. 20 X 700,000 = 14M giving true salary cap of 69.5M to be divided amongst the 20 players as the team feels based on Stardom, and value of the player but also gives a indication of what the fair max value for one player should really be. Base salary 4.175M plus the new base salary of 3.475 should be the maximum that a star player would be consider fair value. That number is 7.65M. Anything over that number they are taking money from other players and not the owners/team. This also provides a quick understanding of salary structure of what a team should look like and than provide some flexibility to play super stars way more than they are worth. The total forwards salary should be around $50M Defense around $25M Goalies $8.35M Check your favorite team to see how close they are to these numbers and you might understand why you are complain about certain player contracts or positions being weak since every dollar eaten by another area means you weaken another. Assume you are getting fair or equal value on performance from said player. I also used to think pts per million was fair value but not every players that brings value to your team is going to put up points.
Billionaire owners vs the players that actually do the work and earn the money... this is a very hard choice.... Man, I wish sports teams were community owned.
I think if it this way. I’m not an owner, player or family member. I don’t take any sides when it comes to CBA. Everyones interest is represented well. Go negotiate and do what your going to do and when your done I will be hear waiting to watch hockey..
It's a little hard for fans to organize. Team owners in all four sports are irredeemably greedy. Players deserve to get paid. But they're paid by the fans. I'm hard pressed to understand what the owners actually bring to the table.
Um, they bring capital, marketing, business operations, TV contracts, some times the arena itself, etc. It's not like the team plays on a ice pond and attended by local fans that sit on bleachers maintained by the fans themselves.
"I'm hard pressed to understand what the owners actually bring to the table." Lol you did hear about Ottawa recently being sold for about a billion dollars, right?
Players are greedy ( but you can’t blame them for getting as much as they can) , until the owners stand up to them and either stop giving in or they band together and change the rules it not going to stop. Players should be paid on a scale based on yearly productivity. And given bonuses if they perform to certain standards.
@CWS and TKP 66-02 I was making a joke, sometimes either by my poor writing skills or by my lack of using emojis in my text it can be hard to get point across. I agree with you.
In a capitalist system, the owners will ALWAYS be the greedy ones. They have the most power, and they can/will do anything to pad their bottom line. There will always be issues with the PA, you get any group of people together in large enough numbers and issues will arise. But the players are the ones fans come to see, the ones who put in the work and the ones who put their bodies on the line. They deseve the money way more than some rich fuck who inherited half his wealth and the other half comes from investments that only happened because of money managers.
Flashback Gordie Howe - September 26, 1970, signed a two-year contract with the Detroit Red Wings for $100,000 per season, his highest salary in the NHL. lol As he said to me with a smile when I spoke with him, "My sons make more per game than I did for a season!"🏒
..there is an old pic of Tim Horton sitting in a pick up truck, with Conn Smythe standing beside the truck. Horton had to work at Smythe's gravel pits in the summer, to make extra cash...
We are conditioned to believe that individual wealth is bad, but corporate wealth and especially corporate welfare is ok. Thats what millions in advertising can do.
Said this back in 94÷95...When an Owner says" I'm Losing Money" it's NOT that they are NEGATIVE Cash Wise, it's that they Aren't gonna Make as Much Money as they POSSIBLY COULD! If WE Had A $20 Bill in our pockets and it fell out-we LOST that $20...So we Now have No Money! When Owners-FEEL they COULD'VE Mad $100, But ONLY Made $80- So they LOST $20!! Different Perspective! ;-)
@Reed Miller Not Totally Accurat...Incidentally , I was A COYOTE Season Ticket Holder 96-04 and Are FULLY AWARE of the Ownership History of the 'YOTES! I'm still in AZ.
I feel players should be paid more considering how much skill and talent to play hockey well and how much mlb nfl players get paid especially on how little games nfl players play. That being said that also reflects how much money is bring brought in. Nhl needs to do better especially in streaming services since the ones available are garbage.
Normally I agree with you but this is one of those cases that you gave one of the most one-sided arguments I have ever heard. I completely agree that the NHL needed a players union and that there was a time when players were treated not just unfairly but criminally (hence Alan Eagelson going to jail). But to completely deny the state of the game going into the 2004-2005 lockout is just negligent reporting. Prior to the cap you basically had small market teams acting as free-agent feeders for high-salary teams with no hope of being able to keep their players. Teams like the Red Wings and Rangers had payrolls of over 75 million while Nashville was at 22 million and several others under 30 million. The NHL needed a salary cap and they needed a cap that guaranteed that all teams were capable of surviving and being competitive. Not all the owners were billionaires, just look at Edmonton. They were within hours of becoming the third Canadian team to head to the US except the Alberta Treasury Branch put a price matching clause on the loans Pocklington secured with the Oilers as collateral and 37 individuals stepped up and pooled their money and bought the team at the sale deadline. I'll never forget looking at an article written about Denver professional sports teams pointing out that both Joe Sakic and Peter Forsberg made more money than John Elway even though the NHL revenue was not even close to that of the NFL. The pendulum had swung too far and a correction was needed. These high-value NHL franchises we see today are because they have a salary cap in place.
Dont blame players for wanting more. They know the owners are making 100 million at least a year. The players are putting their bodies on the line and if they get badly hurt on a short team friendly contract then just too bad youre out of the job.
As a guy that played 5 years of organized hockey and played on streets and gyms and roller rinks both 4 wheel and inline I am going to say.....Professional hockey Players are easily the most under payed(All 4 North american pro sports) for the amount of Brutal Punishment they experience. No Amount of money is worth the suffering they do in their later years IMHO.
The NHL is also the least watched sport of the four major North American sport leagues. So, it make sense that they don't make the same amount of money. There is also far more wage parity in the NHL than other leagues like football due to the cap.
I'll answer both simply no owners no league. you can find players. 1980 us hockey team proved that, hell echl proves that. honestly I don't play children's games anymore. sadly some of us actually grew up and got real jobs. have a good night boys.
2:52 The Red Wings shot themselves in the foot too throwing *Glenn Hall* in that trade. Detroit doesn't win a Stanley Cup for 40 years and Mr. Goalie is only the best in the league for the next 15 years
I don't fault the players for seeking as much money as possible, I just don't want my team to have a bunch of bad contracts they can't move while preventing the team from being able to sign legitimate assets.
Yep. I don't fault OEL for getting $8 million a season. I'm upset at the Canucks owner for forcing a trade to get him. ... Although to be fair for all involved, OEL wasn't bad his first season here and if it weren't for that foot injury, the Canucks would likely have won several more games. (He's On Ice Goal differential was just shy of 20 worse than expected. The only Canucks player even close to that was Myers at -18.)
Jesus Christ! I knew those two had rough seasons, but this is the first time I looked at those numbers. And the Canucks were paying them a combined $13 million. Ouch. I don't blame the players for getting paid. I just wish they were being paid that much by a team I don't cheer for.
That what a proper GM is for there bub
The salary cap makes it relatively easy to judge GMs in this sense because everyone has the same budget and it's a hard ceiling. So the question is, it is wise to spend X% of the team's budget on Player Y? In the days before salary caps became a thing, it was much easier to criticize ownership/management for being cheapskates for not spending top dollar to sign or re-sign big-name players, because it was easy to assume that if you were rich enough to buy a sports team, you had a bottomless pool of money and could spend endlessly on salaries.
The players ARE THE PRODUCT, can’t hate them for wanting to be paid as much as they
I'd never understand the fans backing the owners. When this is still at its core a labor issue. I'll always support the players getting their worth.
I think it's because fans get to see how players' salary affects the on-ice performance, while owners diving from their luxury yachts to swim in a pool of money isn't as visible.
You have to be a scrooge like Harold Ballard for fans to even notice/ get outraged.
Also maybe yknow some older fans get a bit jealous seeing young kids make more in a year than most of us in an entire lifetime.
@@stevendchu what were Ballard's habits like?
Most people are stupid.
@@stevendchu I'd say it has more to do with people being fans of teams moreso than fans of players. It makes sense, players are way more transitory on a team through the years. There are players I really like, but if they aren't on my favorite team I don't want them to win at the expense of my team.
It was the owners who gave us hockey during the pandemic and took all of the financial risk (and loss) during the bubble and during the 2021 season. And the players were the ones who had the gall to bitch about escrow. The only reason why we had hockey to watch was because of the owners, and I don’t forget that.
A little more credit to the WHA. Not only are they responsible for players getting paid better, but they forced the NHL to expand into markets that they probably wouldn't have without competition. Without the WHA, I'm pretty sure teams like the Canucks, Sabres & Islanders wouldn't exist, and the only teams in Canada would be Montreal and Toronto, since those two franchises were against sharing their tv money with anyone else.
It's almost like the whole purpose of the WHA was to force the NHL to expand faster, pay their players better, and add more Canadian teams to that league, since the WHA was adamant that all three Canadian teams in the WHA be added to the NHL.
Pretty sure WHA helped with the NHL getting the draft age lowered to 18. I wouldn't doubt it would've gone down to 18 eventually anyway. but i'm sure the WHA attempting to pluck the talent by having a lower draft age expedited the process
I would like to see a video on the prices around the league for a family of four ,snack parking ,drinks included video from you,anyone else with me?
Hell yes!
@@leatherbound4233absolutely
I did not know that NHL players were not unionized until 1967, wow that’s crazy! Thanks, Shannon
I'm 100% a union man, but I think the salary cap and revenue sharing is good for both the players and the owners. If there were a lockout / strike on the horizon, I would have to look at the issues being raised by both sides, but barring something strange, I would be supporting the players.
On the other hand, I HATE the NHLPA when they fight to get suspensions reduced. Get rid of the dirty players. Don't support them. Remember, the injured player is also part of the NHLPA.
Happy Father's Day Shannon.
I think last year's lockout in major league baseball has been interesting in terms of looking at who the fans supported. In 1994 I think most fans sided with the owners, but judging from reactions I saw online, it seemed most people really supported the players this time around. I think this is a good trend, and hopefully the NHLPA benefits from it next time they have labor struggles
Side note, but my favorite thing that came out of last year's lockout was a tweet from Jon Bois that basically said "I actually go to the game for the owners. The players I could give or take. If I paid for a game and all I saw was a baseball sitting on the mound, I would be satisfied." If that doesn't show the ridiculousness of siding with the owners in a labor struggle, idk what would
The answer is simple: They're all greedy. The players, the owners, the league, even the fans. Just part of being human.
Greed is a Sin.
If more people could acknowledge this reality, we'd have a basis for proceeding. Too many like to pretend it's everyone else's problem...
good ol human nature argument that always explains everything regardless of what is
Sure, so the word should be reserved for those who are exceptionally greedy.
People are greedy because societal structures awards greed, not humna nature
The NHL is the one league where a salary cap isn't for the betterment, as far as I'm concerned. What really sticks out are the artificial factors that are added to artificial markets. We've seen a league that has clearly been in decline since 2005-06. You could argue the decline had already begun on February 1st of 1993. Certainly, the league didn't benefit from "the trap era".
Still sad a team lost a Cup in the 04-05 lockout. I remember Roenick saying potentially a 26 or 28 game abbreviated season or something. Then nothing happened, still a bummer to this day.
Hockey was so much more violent in the 30-50s ... imagine getting your head cracked for 30-50k a year.
Due to the average NHL salary cap per team. Players can't really even afford to be too greedy. Unlike in Baseball, Football and Basketball where the cap is easily over 100 mill or more. While I believe the average NHL cap room per team is around 83 million or lower. Paying 20 professional athlete's with a cap around 80 million dollars is rough. That's not including the coaching staff and other type of staff members.
@@Reedjohnmiller It's pretty much an example of how low the overall NHL teams budget is, compared to the rest of sports. That's what I meant for that part.
So if you add everything together, team/staff/coaching/scouts etc. It still doesn't even come close to the what a team in the NBA like the Charlotte Hornets have as just a team cap. Awful team, doesn't really draw a ton of fans and still has a team cap of 123.6 million dollars. So my point is the owner in the NHL have an overwhelming advantage over the players in the NHL, compared to say basketball and football where players have more leverage in there sport over the owners and how much money they can ask/demand for more. Player in the NHL asks for over 10 million per season. That's about 8.3 percent of the teams cap which heavily affects them overtime. (Using the Rangers 83 million as an example for this.)
On July 3rd, ESPN will opt out of the remaining 5 years of a 7-year contract to hold the first half of the NHL’s media rights and sell the remainder of the contract to CBS Sports.
People saying hockey players aren't doctors....Let me ask you this :
Do you want Owner getting the most cash or the players? Who's giving the show?
Better have players getting most of the cash...The logic that if players are paid less,ticket will be cheaper is complete nonsense.
From a players POV: you've spent your entire life dedicated to hockey. Your parents have prob alr spent a ton of money to get you where you are today. You have a limited professional window. You (prob) don't have a degree/diploma that will give you career opportunites after retirement. Not everybody can be Biznasty, media opportunities are limited.
Why wouldn't you get as much as you possibly can? 78% of pro athletes face financial issues after they retire. Taking a team friendly deal to win a Cup might be nice at the end of your career, but pawning off rings so you can afford child support isn't.
That squeaky "Welcome back" cracked me up. Another nice vid THG.
With the exception of one job. Every job I’ve had tried to make me feel guilty about wanting a fair wage. Never believe the owners when they say their trying to make things fair for everyone. It’s the oldest trick in the book.
I never understood why people want the CAP to go up. Your team isn't getting better players, they'll just pay more to the same ones. And many teams already spent a good chunk of the increase even before it goes up by signing bigger contracts, "because the CAP is going up, so we'll be OK".
And more important, YOU'RE PAYING FOR IT. Why would you like to pay more for the same product? The money comes out of you.
Plus, for every million the CAP increases, another one goes to the owners pockets. Why would you help billioners get wealthier at your expense?
I liked the no cap period. The Red Wings were spenders and signed Brett Hull, when the other owners refused to do it. Nobody tried to sign Hull. When the Red Wings did sign him, the Wings were made out to be the bad guys. So they legalized the salary cap. Cheap owners got to make more money.
That's the only way the Wings could have won anything. Buying their way to a cup. Hull was past his prime at that stage. No way that era happens again.
@@youngandfree93 They won cups before they signed Hull. They won cups after Hull was with Red Wings.
Most redicolous thing is that the owners blame the players for the COVID-19 shutdown 2019-2020 season… and for some mystical reason the revenue lost is players fault and now players are on depth for the owners, because the COVID-19 happened.
No, the league lost over a billion dollars so the players owe half. They can't get half the revenue and not assume half the losses.
@@TheHockeyGuy the owners didnt lose any money. they just didnt make a billion dollars that year. they used PPP to cover any potential loses.
So the salary cap didn't drop. You understand this right? The league made less, but the players didn't. That's why they owe money.
Blame it all on the original six! The Bruins, Black Hawks, Red Wings, the Canadians, the Rangers & the Maple Leafs did it all!
yeah why i feel we are just playing catch up with the other 3 major leagues
Just remember, every time you hear the phrase "Better for the league." grab your wallet. As a fan my ideal scenario is lousy TV ratings and half empty buildings. Anything that hurts the ability of teams to jack up prices. I've never understood why regular fans care about whether or not the NHL has a big pop culture presence in the US. More people watching makes it more expensive for us all.
You know that would kill player salaries, right?
Your ideal scenario also means teams folding and good players going off to Europe and other pro leagues
One problem is a lot of people don’t understand how much more a billion is to a million.
I think George Carlin's "Fuck the fans" rant in Bird Droppings had it right. Only the players matter in any sport. We can all disappear and what's left: the players. They are going to play their game in their local rinks, courts, fields, whatever. Fans absolutely don't matter, the owners don't matter. I'm always on the player's side in these disputes.
Fans don’t matter? Lol. These players are out of a job with no fans. Your statement is not very logical.
They earn more money than they could spend in several lifetimes, zero sympathy for the players today. 50/50 split is a beautiful thing and hats of to all involved to making that happen.
I was really expecting a Bettman call at the end of this one :)
I agree 100%. The owners have always been greedy. Praise and Suter signing. The team offered that money on day one and they took it like any smart man. 4 months later the owner is claiming they can’t keep the lights on with these contracts. What?! You offered the money to get the top to FAs and now you want to roll back that deal. That’s crap.
hmmm food and rent for a month or going to a nhl game ,thats a dificult desision
Look at it this way. Here you are, a fan, seeing some millionaire sports player get paid 4 million a year to play a game while you make peanuts laying concrete. Players come off as entitled children.
It’s all exorbitant salaries. People are making millions to play a game whilst teachers are living on the bread line
The salary cap and with it, a cap floor, are overall, good things for sports. See the gongshow that is the MLB right now. You have 5 MLB teams that have payrolls BELOW the NHL cap floor. The Lightning's payroll is higher than the Rays. You have the Mets who are spending 10x what the Athletics are spending on players. I'm still surprised the MLB didn't have a full season lockout to fight for a salary cap/floor. It's the main reason why the MLB is such a poor product to watch.
keeping down ticket prices would help owners and players, as well as obvious benefit to fans
American workers for the past 50 years have slowly become less unionized as a whole, so much so that the idea of a union outside of blue collar work is seemingly laughable. Many people don't know what work is like with a union or know anyone that is in a union. Americans have lost so much buying power but we think that paying union fees in exchange for a higher standard of living is dumb. I will will support unions in most cases; the business/franchises will make plenty of money, just less on the margins.
Two thoughts on this matter, and it applies to all pro leagues, not just the NHL:
First, it became impossible for me to criticize players for maximizing their earnings once I realized how short the average career is. These guys have a very short window in which they can make 6-7 figures/year for playing hockey; even if you avoid catastrophic injury, aging or wear and tear can take away just enough edge to cost you your job. It's not comparable to professions and trades where you can have an uneventful decades-long career earning decent money year in and year out. So I don't blame players for wanting to make the most out of the opportunity while they have it.
At the same, age and experience have also taught me that people who have never owned/run a business tend to underestimate their fragility. Even with professional sports franchises, I reject the notion that they can be careless with money, and that the guys in the board rooms are all lighting up expensive cigars with C-notes. Having run a small business myself, I understand needing to maximize your opportunities to make a profit, because you never truly know how long it will last. I also understand that if you don't keep an eye on your costs (including labor) things can go south on you, and very quickly. It's not as easy as it looks from the outside. You can have a lot of money coming in, but you always need to make sure that amount is more than what's going back out.
There are two huge issues here. Number one, is that the sports agents involved here are the same agents working for companies that manage baseball, basketball, football, and players in the likes of the Premiership, and other European football leagues. Let's look at golf, racing, especially Formula 1, and you see the kind of money that is coming into the few huge companies that do this.
With the salary cap, the NHL are on the lower end of the pay scale, and even though an arena holds far fewer people than say an NFL stadium, the NHL play forty-one home games a year...the owners are making money, but so are the agents, and they really do not work that hard.
The second point is this. We have seen many players in the NHL that had promising careers in other sports, and we also know about the players in other sports that could have played NHL but didn't, why? The NHL is brutal on the body, it can take most of the year with training camp, regular season, playoffs, draft etc., why wouldn't you play baseball? Being on the road, young, easier on the body, playing in the summer, Christmas off, winter off, way more money than an NHL'er. NHL guys are just trying to keep up, but so are their agents...they are the real greedy scum in this.
i support the PLAYERS 100%
Every jersey ad and board ad they bring in is to make owners richer + pay for arizona.
Careers of doctors can be much longer as they rarely get cross checked by three hundred pounds of athlete traveling at high speeds.
That greed
This video is on point ❤🔥
Really it does not matter i have not been able to afford a ticket since the 1980s any way,not to mention the consessiion and parking fees .The league is now supported by the rich and company tickets
It's all management and labor. The key word is balance. The way it is right now with NHL games is that it prices a lot of fans out of attending in person.
It's rich owners, rich players, and everyone else. Most people don't mind seeing players in any sport making big bucks as their career is over within 20 years, but they're still young when they retire/quit and can still make money in other ways for decades. My favourite football player made good money while playing retired at 34 due to injury, coached a bit and worked in the energy sector for three decades.
I'll never side against the players when it comes to this argument, for the same reason I'll never side against the concession staff or the janitorial staff. Labor deserves the entire cake, and players are still laborers, they're just the labourers who are compensated closest to what they're actually worth.
Networth is incredible
Both are greedy and us middle class fans pay for it
I personally have never liked unions. Makes it difficult to keep good employees when all the shitty ones get equal treatment even if they're doing a fraction of the work. Then you can't fire them because their so protected. Good workers typically don't like unions and those who just coast through work doing bare minimum love them.
Whatever the players are making the owners are making triple. They only have so long to make the money so I won't knock them for trying to get as much as they can while they are healthy.
I think the lack of a strong union historically has a lot to do with the fact that the league is predominately Canadian and Canadians historically and culturally don't have as violent of a labour union history as say the United States. Yes, you had the Winnipeg General Strike and the Regina Riot but in the States you have countless mining towns from West Virginia to Colorado where there have literally been massacres (i.e. people shot and killed) to break up strikes and other riots like in places Chicago due to racial tensions around the hiring of immigrant and/or African-Americans. What's crazy now is because of the success of a labour party, the New Democratic Party (NDP) in Canada is that Canadians have much stronger labour protections (aroundminimum wage, universal healthcare, etc.) then their American counterparts because of the prescence of an actual labour party in government lol
I wonder how many fans could actually name the owner of their favorite hockey team? (I sure don't)
To clarify something...50% of the revenue goes to the owners, who then need to go pay everyone on the staff including people like Mary in accounts payable, Bob in accounts receivable, Tony in facilities and all of the trainers, scouts, managers and HR, plus the general business overhead like rent/lease agreements, payroll taxes and insurance, legal, and general employee benefits, etc. Just like in any other business, that all gets paid out of the owners' share. The players don't have to pay out any of that, except paying their agents.
🥾👅
Trickle down economics always works though! Everyone knows that millionaires got that way by being happy to part with their funds
I have no problem with players holding out for their worth, I just don't want the management of teams I cheer for to give market value contracts to any players, because that's a big part of winning unfortunately.
I'd love for the cap to be removed. I'd personally support a boycott to that effect. Some people think capitalism has already had its day, and they might be right, or they might be wrong.
If you are a top player and you’ve shown your ability and leadership, go get your money. Go where you think you’ll get the money you deserve, and where you think you’ll thrive.
The taxpayers in every league provide a free farm system with the colleges and universities then subsidize new stadiums. Cut it all off. If teams evaporate on all levels so be it. Sick of it.
I see it as pretty level from both. It is destroying the game and I'll say it AGAIN ADDS! We have more on uniforms and the playing surface than all the other top sports COMBINED! Tired of both, the cost of taking your kid to a game you need to take out a loan and still only get cheep seats. Who isn't tired of seeing a player sign a huge contract for a ridiculous amount and watching them phone it in. I'm all for fair pay and all but we're being bled dry.
Guys, like 98% of you are in the same situation as the players. You are labor. If you don’t like that players make more than you, consider that these are the absolute very best players in the world, who took on enormous risk to rise to the top, and who have to retire in their mid thirties with no guarantees beyond that. Players are the reason we watch the game, and they deserve to be paid as much as possible.
Like Dana white said the nhl is run by a bunch of old dinosaurs! Slap fighting is gets more views
The owners cry and cap make money beyond belief.
Did the players put up any of the nearly 1 Billion dollars that Michael Andlauer put up for the Ottawa Senators?
Totally agree
im of the mind the Players should be paid MORE
The owners have NO chance of losing money because if they sell there team they will get a BILLION dollars or more . There are less than a 1000 people able to PLAY hockey and there career is short.
Does the NHLPA have an annual fee that players pay and is disbursed upon a strike or lockout? just think a reserve fund like that could provide some protection for entry-level guys if they entered the league during a lockout or strike period?
before the cap, it was "our team can't afford this guy at 8+million per year". you don't see that anymore, now it's "we can't fit him under our cap"
unless it's Arizona, money isn't a problem for teams. 31 out of 32 teams respect the league minimum at least.
I don't have a problem with players making their money based on the revenues they generate. The only argument I might make (and call me a raging pinko if you like) is that perhaps we should have a cap on ticket prices and a cap on merchandise sales. You can deal with ticket prices easily. Just set a price and adjust it for inflation. As for merchandise sales, you can make everyone happy. Anything over a certain amount in merch revenue goes directly to the owner's favourite charity (and by that I DON'T mean one of his or her friends). And any team that couldn't operate under those conditions, well, maybe there's a better location for that team. Fair for the owners, players, and the most neglected of the 3, the Fans.
Obviously, that's totally unrealistic, but how about for a couple of years as a good will gesture to the fans who stood with the league through COVID? After everyone's gotten back all the money they lost. I'm being generous. Give me a break 🤣.
Professional sports remains a meat grinder of a career path…any day can be the day a player gets a career-ending injury. In other words, the players put their health on the line every time they go out there, so who can blame them for wanting to make as much money as they can before they have to stop?
The owners are at nothing like that kind of risk. Unless James Dolan gets blinded by a tomato thrown at his terrible band and somehow has to sell…or not even sell, but give away…the Rangers as a result, I’m just not seeing how there’s any comparison.
folks may bellyache that players are greedy. it's the players prerogative to earn the best they can in their finite career.
if the player chooses to leave $ on the table to help the front office pay other guys, that's his choice.
at the end of the day, the gm is responsible for making the numbers work to fit under the salary cap.
ok no hate but see the problem comes when the fans/players loyalty is to a dead duck if you with. ie quick in L.A.. he wasn't holding up his end of the contract they trade him and it's boo hoo how could you.
@michaelbecker2435 understandable, kings made the right business decision to trade quick, but got crucified for it by fans because they wanted quick to finish his career with the kings.
can't always make everyone happy. 🤷
Usually the support for players vs owners comes down to political ideology. Not always the case but generally from my experience its the case.
I am glad the owners took a hardline against them unlike baseball. If the players complain they don't make much money then go find another job. Maybe start a business and see the costs.
Pretty much everyone wants to be paid what they think they're worth. The only reasonable way to figure out what that is comes from negotiating. The biggest change the union brought in was making salaries transparent. Once players knew what other players were getting then it made it a lot easier to stand firm in negotiations for your next deal.
On the cap, I was always in favour of it. It leads to more balance in the league, a guaranteed share of revenues for players, and reasonable profits for the teams as a whole. The 50% that teams get isn't profit. It's what pays for coaches, scouts, travel, meals, hotels, arenas, and all the other costs they incur to generate the revenue. And some profit.
I would say that the top few hundred doctors in the world do get payed that kind of money......................................
Players are greedy.
Owners are greedy.
The cost to attend a hockey game as a fan is 10x or 20x higher than it was in the 90s. This is a direct result of owners and players fighting for money.
I wanna see what happens with the olympics question, next cba. If the russia-Ukraine war drags on to the next olympics, trying to make a true best-on-best tournament of it may be a moot point for the NHL, unless the IOC pulls the same bullshit they did last games, with “Olympic athletes from Russia” or whatever it was they called it…
They can be playing for the contract then that is fine but don't complain about having a bad team around you. Aaron Rodgers being paid a crazy amount then crying every year that they don't have a winning team around him really turned me off to him as a fan. To me its not a matter of owners vs players. Take that up during the cba. The players know the salary cap and know if they take a large amount that their teammates then need to be underpaid or shipped out to bring in cheaper(likely worse) players. You can't have your cake and eat it. If you want to make as much money as possible go for that but then don't complain if the team is not as successful as it could be or that the fans resent you.
Easy there HG always Betmans fault. Conditioned since 93' Booooo Betman
I know that the MLB players and the NHL players all went through the same issues... MLB was spread out over 100 years which was longer than the NHL existed at the time. The players even made their own league back in the late 1900's... thanks to some crooked politicians.. and judges (see the ex-judge/commisionner Kenesaw Mountain Landis).. they kept the players there down too until they finally were able to unionize in the 60's and in the 70's killed that pesky reserve clause to create free agency. I know there, the funny part was that after the salaries started rising.. MLB owners were forced to maximize profits... prior to.. there were empty seats during the world series... not much anymore.. and by maximizing.. they actually made more money than before.. (OMG, is that possible?)... one thing the NHL has done... they learned from MLB.... MLB gave in during the strike in '81... the players learned... the NHL got hung in '92... well,they've learned to never allow the union to have leverage like that again.. MLB got burned in the 90's too when they lost a world series... Both leagues today won't allow the players to pick when the job action occurs... and the NHL had the stones to cancel a season. Showing the players that they need the owners more than the owners needed them (not players per se.. but THOSE players.... there will always be more.... and the game goes on long after Wayne Gretzky or any other player retires)... I know the NHLPA hired Fehr because of how he handled the MLB teams... problem is... the NHL owners can and will unite much easier and have shown.. they are not afraid to wait the players out..
The NFL was going through some things quite similarly. You even had some star players like Larry Csonka head over to the startup World Football League for the promise of more money than he was getting as a member of the Miami Dolphins. But when that folded, the players went on strike in 1982, resulting in only a shortened 9 game regular season instead of the usual 16. When the players struck again in 1987, the NFL just hired replacement players to play the games. True free agency didn't come around until 1994. The most recent NFL lockout occurred during the 2011 off-season. The NBA had to go to a shortened off-season during that time as a result of their lockout. They didn't have the start of the season until I believe Christmas day of that year.
but the owners treated the players as their slaves. Gordie Howe turned his back on Lindsay... you had retired players living in poverty trying to sell broken sticks and such to survive,,, the players are the reason the owners got rich yet they refuse to share the money they made from Vegas and Seattle entry. WHA made NHL pay up.... WHA created the first million dollar player. sadly Bettman cares nothing about the league, players or fans only filling the owners pockets and owners will always be greedy to get more and give players less..
Too simplitic. Most small market teams owe their survival to the salary cap. And the 50% to the owners doesn't go to "32 men." Some teams like the Rangers are owned by a publically traded corporation, not a single person.
It's still a MUCH larger chunk than players get.
@The Hockey Guy It's 50/50. So, it's the exact same chunk as the players get. The problem is the cap. The reason for the cap is to keep failing franchises afloat. If the cap was removed and players were paid as much as teams were willing to pay them, all the best players would go to large market teams in free agency and a third of NHL teams would never win anything and go under. It's not even comparable to football or baseball, which have long traditions in the US market. US fans will root for unsuccessful football or baseball teams forever because the team is part of their family tradition or area. Not so with hockey, at least for US expansion teams. Hockey players don't make less than other professional sports players because the owners are greedy. They make less because the sport is less popular in America than football, baseball or basketball; the Canadian dollar is weaker than the American dollar; some teams are in underperforming markets and the league is probably alittle bit too big.
@Reed Miller NFL doesn't have a salary cap. The salary cap keeps the large market teams from out spending small market teams. If players wanted to be paid more, the league should scrap the cap. I agree that some small market teams are established enough to survive regardless of how they perform on the ice. Thus is true in the NFL. But a fair number of NHL teams are simply not, especially the US teams in nontraditional markets.
Your setup just destroys all competitive balance and turns it into baseball. That just sucks.
@The Hockey Guy "Your setup"? I'm just highlighting the issue with having a salary cap. You get a more competitive balance, but more successful players give up the higher contracts they would've received in a system without a cap. It's not the owners being "greedy", lower salaries are just a symptom of the salary cap system.
This makes me laugh every time I see a video or comment or conversation around player salaries and it is clearly not even open for debate in my eyes that Yes, players are greedy!!
Let me explain my stance since most will be like no they aren`t but when you think of a team and all 20 players on that roster and breakdown the average salaries compared to some of the players making the most in the league; you might change your mind.
Salary Cap is: 83.5M
Roster: 20 players
That means the actual bases salary that every player in a equal shares situation should be taking home; 4.175M per season. Yes, I know you have stars etc....
NHL & NHLPA have a greed on base salary of $700, 000 per season for players after their rookie contracts. And rookie contracts are 925,000 per season.
But it does go to show that Stars are rather greedy and thinking of only themselves when you think some of the players are taking home $12.5M, which is the average salary of one full line so they are effective playing by themselves; but they are stealing money from other players is more the way that I look at. For every million or dollar over the average salary of 4.175M means your team is going to be that much weaker and someone isn`t going to be paid fair value.
That being said the NHL & NHLPA determine minimum at $700, 000 or 925,000 rookie. Which than changes the average salary that players should be earning. Since you a bases salary and than the remaining Salary cap to find your base.
20 X 700,000 = 14M giving true salary cap of 69.5M to be divided amongst the 20 players as the team feels based on Stardom, and value of the player but also gives a indication of what the fair max value for one player should really be. Base salary 4.175M plus the new base salary of 3.475 should be the maximum that a star player would be consider fair value.
That number is 7.65M.
Anything over that number they are taking money from other players and not the owners/team.
This also provides a quick understanding of salary structure of what a team should look like and than provide some flexibility to play super stars way more than they are worth.
The total forwards salary should be around $50M
Defense around $25M
Goalies $8.35M
Check your favorite team to see how close they are to these numbers and you might understand why you are complain about certain player contracts or positions being weak since every dollar eaten by another area means you weaken another. Assume you are getting fair or equal value on performance from said player.
I also used to think pts per million was fair value but not every players that brings value to your team is going to put up points.
Billionaire owners vs the players that actually do the work and earn the money... this is a very hard choice....
Man, I wish sports teams were community owned.
We need a 21st century WHA revival...
I think if it this way. I’m not an owner, player or family member. I don’t take any sides when it comes to CBA. Everyones interest is represented well. Go negotiate and do what your going to do and when your done I will be hear waiting to watch hockey..
It's a little hard for fans to organize. Team owners in all four sports are irredeemably greedy. Players deserve to get paid. But they're paid by the fans. I'm hard pressed to understand what the owners actually bring to the table.
Um, they bring capital, marketing, business operations, TV contracts, some times the arena itself, etc. It's not like the team plays on a ice pond and attended by local fans that sit on bleachers maintained by the fans themselves.
"I'm hard pressed to understand what the owners actually bring to the table."
Lol you did hear about Ottawa recently being sold for about a billion dollars, right?
Players are greedy ( but you can’t blame them for getting as much as they can) , until the owners stand up to them and either stop giving in or they band together and change the rules it not going to stop.
Players should be paid on a scale based on yearly productivity. And given bonuses if they perform to certain standards.
There’s no earnings cap for owners, but there’s a salary cap for players. Tells you all you need to know about who the greedy party is
Union, the dreaded five lettered word. It shall bring doom to all that utter the word. Great video as usual.
@CWS and TKP 66-02 I was making a joke, sometimes either by my poor writing skills or by my lack of using emojis in my text it can be hard to get point across. I agree with you.
In a capitalist system, the owners will ALWAYS be the greedy ones. They have the most power, and they can/will do anything to pad their bottom line. There will always be issues with the PA, you get any group of people together in large enough numbers and issues will arise. But the players are the ones fans come to see, the ones who put in the work and the ones who put their bodies on the line. They deseve the money way more than some rich fuck who inherited half his wealth and the other half comes from investments that only happened because of money managers.
Flashback Gordie Howe - September 26, 1970, signed a two-year contract with the Detroit Red Wings for $100,000 per season, his highest salary in the NHL. lol As he said to me with a smile when I spoke with him, "My sons make more per game than I did for a season!"🏒
..there is an old pic of Tim Horton sitting in a pick up truck, with Conn Smythe standing beside the truck. Horton had to work at Smythe's gravel pits in the summer, to make extra cash...
We are conditioned to believe that individual wealth is bad, but corporate wealth and especially corporate welfare is ok.
Thats what millions in advertising can do.
Said this back in 94÷95...When an Owner says" I'm Losing Money" it's NOT that they are NEGATIVE Cash Wise, it's that they Aren't gonna Make as Much Money as they POSSIBLY COULD! If WE Had A $20 Bill in our pockets and it fell out-we LOST that $20...So we Now have No Money! When Owners-FEEL they COULD'VE Mad $100, But ONLY Made $80- So they LOST $20!! Different Perspective! ;-)
@Reed Miller Not Totally Accurat...Incidentally , I was A COYOTE Season Ticket Holder 96-04 and Are FULLY AWARE of the Ownership History of the 'YOTES! I'm still in AZ.
I feel players should be paid more considering how much skill and talent to play hockey well and how much mlb nfl players get paid especially on how little games nfl players play. That being said that also reflects how much money is bring brought in. Nhl needs to do better especially in streaming services since the ones available are garbage.
Normally I agree with you but this is one of those cases that you gave one of the most one-sided arguments I have ever heard. I completely agree that the NHL needed a players union and that there was a time when players were treated not just unfairly but criminally (hence Alan Eagelson going to jail). But to completely deny the state of the game going into the 2004-2005 lockout is just negligent reporting. Prior to the cap you basically had small market teams acting as free-agent feeders for high-salary teams with no hope of being able to keep their players. Teams like the Red Wings and Rangers had payrolls of over 75 million while Nashville was at 22 million and several others under 30 million. The NHL needed a salary cap and they needed a cap that guaranteed that all teams were capable of surviving and being competitive.
Not all the owners were billionaires, just look at Edmonton. They were within hours of becoming the third Canadian team to head to the US except the Alberta Treasury Branch put a price matching clause on the loans Pocklington secured with the Oilers as collateral and 37 individuals stepped up and pooled their money and bought the team at the sale deadline. I'll never forget looking at an article written about Denver professional sports teams pointing out that both Joe Sakic and Peter Forsberg made more money than John Elway even though the NHL revenue was not even close to that of the NFL. The pendulum had swung too far and a correction was needed.
These high-value NHL franchises we see today are because they have a salary cap in place.
Dont blame players for wanting more. They know the owners are making 100 million at least a year. The players are putting their bodies on the line and if they get badly hurt on a short team friendly contract then just too bad youre out of the job.
I know this players are greedy propaganda is insane
@@TheMercyTrials damn that’s crazy I simply don’t go to the games and just watch on TV east
As a guy that played 5 years of organized hockey and played on streets and gyms and roller rinks both 4 wheel and inline I am going to say.....Professional hockey Players are easily the most under payed(All 4 North american pro sports) for the amount of Brutal Punishment they experience. No Amount of money is worth the suffering they do in their later years IMHO.
Disagree. There is no guaranteed money in 90% of cases in the NFL. Guys get hurt and immediately cut all the time.
The NHL is also the least watched sport of the four major North American sport leagues. So, it make sense that they don't make the same amount of money. There is also far more wage parity in the NHL than other leagues like football due to the cap.
I love all those guys saying that they would volunteer to do their job for free, like they could feed their families on good vibes.
like you need 9 million to play a children's game.
@@michaelbecker2435 No players no league. Simple as that.
@@michaelbecker2435 Why don't you play in the NHL then?
I'll answer both simply no owners no league. you can find players. 1980 us hockey team proved that, hell echl proves that. honestly I don't play children's games anymore. sadly some of us actually grew up and got real jobs. have a good night boys.
@@michaelbecker2435 Calling hockey a children's game via UA-cam comment is the epitome of maturity bud 🤡🤡
2:52 The Red Wings shot themselves in the foot too throwing *Glenn Hall* in that trade. Detroit doesn't win a Stanley Cup for 40 years and Mr. Goalie is only the best in the league for the next 15 years